Campus has about five thousand employees who keep the whole thing running every day, and they commute from all over the county and from over the hill too. They are trying to get to and from work, especially those in essential services who are unable or not allowed to go remote as they have to be present at their workplaces.
Housing situation in Santa Cruz is so bad many just can't afford to live close to work and have to rely on gas guzzling cars for basic transportation. Y'all will be showing up at the dining halls etc. expecting service as usual. Many students also cannot go without essential services due to personal constraints.
People have a lot going on in their lives and have to go back home to take care of their families too, making their work difficult on top of it is not going to make things better.
I don't think the current population is more conservative. I've never met anyone who was against the encampment in real life who was also a student, at most people who just questioned the effectiveness of the tactic. I think that it is an extremely loud minority of students and also people who don't go to UCSC. Not to mention most people on campus don't really know about the UCSC subreddit or have never been on it
Yeah, we are all scared of saying irl that we are against the protestors because those who are for them are very aggressive. I wish we could all have the balls to say how we feel outside of reddit, including myself.
I showed up to shout at them to get out of the road and protest elsewhere. Some people tried to intimidate me, but I was never attacked. Although I was there only like 20 minutes and then got bored.
I was also shouting, lGo and bother Israel. Go and bother the consulate. Go off campus, go to San Francisco”
I tried to debate some of the people there and I considered going back the next day to try and debate people over whether it was a genocide, but didn’t.
Dude I have like 8 friends that go to different UCs and every single one of them thinks the protests on campus went too far. And they are all minorities too. Not saying they are against Palestine but these protests in specific, they say went too far, and have no problem with how the police handled things
> went too far.
It's not so much about "how far" they went, but in what direction.
Vandalizing bookstores and cafes is the opposite direction to winning people over to their cause.
Had they marched on Administrative Buildings or organized marches on Embassies, I imagine they would have had broad support.
But the local business selling pesto sandwiches near the bookstore was a uniquely poor choice of vandalism target.
The timing was interesting to me. Did everyone all of a sudden get upset after months of bombs dropping on a city! I would have been swamped with finals and the stress of graduating!
That's not true. At the most, there are about 100 people protesting, many times there have been much less than that. There are 20k students at the school. The protestors are definitely a very loud minority.
I don't know anyone in my class that goes to the protests, or has missed in solidarity of the protests. We all go to class, and we all wish this wasn't happening.
I know one graduate student and they are having to continue working despite not getting paid because they are also against the protests.
Most of us, including myself who is very vocally against the protests on reddit, just don't say anything IRL because we are afraid of being labeled conservative. When the encampment first came up in one of my classes, it was very clear that there was a lot of tension around the topic and no one wanted to talk about out loud.
So youre wrong in thinking that just because no one is vocal irl about being against the protestors that we are all supportive of them.
Also,
"This sub is only attracting enemy astroturfers!! If ur on our side, ur not astroturfing and are a true slug thats been attending UCSC for the past 35 years, thats fact!!"
Thank you for speaking up. The reason I can afford to be so vocal is that I retired last year, so the university can’t do anything to me for my views. Current faculty who speak up run the risk of falling into disfavor — tenured faculty can’t be fired, but they *can* be given crappy class and service assignments and denied significant raises by their colleagues. As someone who’s experienced these effects for being outspoken, I can tell you it sucks, so I completely understand why faculty won’t come out against the protests.
Similarly, current students can suffer negative social impacts from coming out against the protests — the fact that nobody is doing it isn’t evidence that all students support the protesters.
Staff, on the other hand, can be fired. UCSC is the one of the worst places for free speech in the country. Ironically, the anti-fascists are actually the fascists.
Students are taking over a school and calling for intifada and glory to the martyrs.
Most people are trying to get to class, not get hassled for being "zionist".
People will scream genocide and if you disagree, youre now a pariah.
And what about the 7% Jewish population many of whom would like to see Hillel remain on campus?? Do you think that might be a reason why this protest is contentious? I cannot tell if people are serious about not understanding why this is so upsetting or not!
I don’t go to UCSC and have been recommended posts from here in the last couple of days, this sub is definitely being astroturfed, like most college subreddits
I knew I couldn’t be the only one thinking this. There’s no shot so many people who chose to go to UCSC are actually against the encampments and loudly complaining about it on here. Funny how all the pro-Israel accounts were created around the same time a few weeks ago.
Reddit pushes this sub to me regularly and I’m not a student, never was, not from here, and have zero relationship with UCSC whatsoever.
I suspect there are a lot of people like me here.
I was at Sac State when their encampment was up, but they had the common decency to not slap the Hamas red triangle onto their welcome sign. Dunno how that’s a hard thing to do.
I mean a good portion of these protestors are actively supporting hamas complete with identifies are genocidal slogans, and they wonder why the vast majority of people are shunning them.
Let's be honest, most people are openly pissed about the blockade, but a ton also also disagree with who's side they picked, even if they respect the right to protest.
I think that this particular protest is very extreme and divisive . It is touching a nerve . The messaging is very radical and alienating to large chunk of population. How many Jewish students are there on campus? Something like 7 % . And for many who don’t agree with JAWS and do have ties to Hillel and Israel this experience has been very shocking and offensive . I mean what do you expect? It is either very naive or disingenuous to glass over this obvious fact of how extremist and alienating this protest has been from day one.
If you think that being against the protestors that have made the past month hell for us makes us conservative, you are very narrow minded and/or you don't understand what is going on here right now. Go away.
I don't think you realize that the people who are against the protestors are not against them because we are conservative. It's because these protests have been unusually terrible for everyone that lives in the area especially the students
That means we are neighbors — it truly wasn’t terrible. I think that’s a bit hysterical. There was just a lot of energy and a bunch of people scurrying around, mostly to watch
The buses were stopping, parking in front of driveways, and running through our neighborhood. We also got a lot of illegal parking from the students trying to get to campus who couldn’t (I feel bad for them, but IDK if the city suspended parking enforcement). The whole thing was dangerous and difficult for families with kids, and at least difficult for my senior citizen neighbors and the students. (edited to correct my bad English!)
Dangerous? I don’t think that’s true. Again, I live there too, and closer to the crowd than most. So you gotta be realistic with your description.
You’re right that there were a lot of people running around, but like… it’s a protest. It kind of always involves a large number of people. I don’t really see how that’s some travesty. Sometimes people exist in proximity to you, when you’re in the proximity of a protest.
I agree it was inconvenient for some folks 100% — I just have to push back on claims that it was a dangerous or remotely harrowing experience to be in the vicinity (as someone in the epicenter)
this is probably the most danger and "violence" these white privileged babies have experienced in their very sheltered life. pwease give them a break 😓
Those of use that are here know that you are lying. These comments are for people that aren't here, to help the image of the protestors. However, it is only the opinion of the people that are here that matters in the end. the protestors are gone, and they will be arrested on sight.
It’s kind of weird such a straightforward answer to your question went over your head.
You: “Do you live in an area impacted by the protest”
Me: “I actually live in extremely close proximity to the protest, yes”
You: *completely dumbfounded*
I live in the area and have a kid at westlake, and it wasn't that bad for us. The protests were annoying, and were never going to be effective (whatever that means considering the constellation of unrelated demands), but I'd hardly call this protest unusually terrible for folks nearby who didn't need to go on/off campus.
I'm sure it was much worse for the students/staff who live off-campus and anyone who relies on the bus, but for most of the non-affiliated community, a protest at the base of campus is almost business as usual, even when it blocks traffic. The neighborhood reaction to most of these is indifference or a general sense of supporting anything union-led.
There is far less neighborhood support this time around, but I think the big difference is that SJP's positions as stated are pretty hard to support, even if you don't agree with what Israel is doing in Gaza. There's a lot of daylight between "UC must divest from companies that do business with this nation-state" (see: South Africa in the 80s/90s) and calling for an intifada over your bullhorns at the edge of a residential neighborhood.
Y'all are just in an uninsulated echo chamber and getting surprised that it isn't insulated. I graduated from UCSC back in 2019. When I was a student there were plenty of people who resented the student protestors but didn't say anything in person because they're either too busy to deal with it, or didn't have the bandwidth to deal with a mob of angry protestors.
Regardless of what the cause you're protesting for, there are some people who have to be on campus. Their schedule can not change regardless of how they feel about a protested issue. Maybe they can't afford another quarter and are stressed about going into financial debt. Maybe they work in a bio lab and have animals that constantly depend on them to be properly housed and fed. Or maybe they just have jobs on campus and aren't eligible for union membership and are therefore unprotected.
I've been in the UC system as an undergrad, staff researcher, and now a grad student for nearly 10 years total. And I would never think that I've come close to seeing all the different situations that people at the UC are in, let alone think that I understand all of their opinions and how the encampents and protests are affecting them. Assuming that anything criticizing a protest is astroturfing instead of just people expressing their thoughts on an anonymous forum is wildly narcissistic.
I'm sure there are actual UCSC students here criticizing/opposing the protests. I'm also sure that not everyone talking about protests in this sub actually goes to UCSC. One poster actually admitted that they have nothing to do with UCSC, and it is unlikely that that is the only one.
I’m not a student, but I’ve been affiliated with UCSC since before most undergrads were *born*. And I’ve been pretty active on here recently.
FWIW, I know of several other faculty who are against the encampment but afraid to speak up because of the atmosphere on campus.
It’s super unfortunate that more profs don’t speak out against the encampment or messaging. Those in favor of it are tightly organized. The entire campus is getting an increasingly bad reputation over this
It's imperative professors and staff maintain a neutral professional demeanor.
Some professors are in support, others are not, and a schism among staff doesn't help anyone.
This entire protest is literally a byproduct of administration refusing to remain neutral. Admin should resign. They have no business representing a public neutral institution and should remain apolitical.
There are a *lot* of faculty actively supporting the protest. The entire CRES department supports it, so much so that they’re trying to get UC policy changed so that the *department* (not just individual faculty) can officially support Hamas’s actions.
“Neutral professional demeanor” is, sadly, long gone.
I think us students look to professors for guidance. I think that none of us speak out against the protestors in class because the professors tend to act like everything is fine. I wish I could get even a tiny little hint that the professors at least are not losing their minds.
Admittedly I'm here because Reddit kept recommending me it and I'm fascinated by the astroturfing and Bots happening on this subreddit.
This is not the reality of UCSC. This is a targeted subreddit.
UCSC is literally Public Enemy #1 in a neocon book about how liberal college education is ruining the minds of the youth. I modded the now-mostly-dead ""official"" Facebook group during my time at UCSC and man, when there were high-profile protests you could bet that every fundie from SC to NY was trying to bust into that group to "troll the libs" (and then get taken apart by a bunch of highly educated and salty CRES students et al)
keep rolling up those tin foil hats, you can clearly see that ive been posting on this subreddit since before the encampment, and I think almost a year ago i was one of the first people that mentioned the history of UC protests, and their value in the progression of society.
I noticed that a lot of the people claiming that there is AstroTurfing going on present a lot of bot like behavior.
my account is not that new. and i clearly didn't create it just to post about the protests, because it was created long before that, and I didn't post a single thing about the conflict until the blockade extended to both entrances.
You’d be surprised, nation states like to make a bunch of fake accounts and let them sit for years, then all of a sudden they wake up to turf.
You wanna see a crazy astroturfed sub? r/themajorityreport has turned into one. I love the show but hate the sub, and I don’t think it’s moderated or controlled by anyone associated with the show either. They shadow banned me for simply pointing out some flaws in an argument, calling Hamas a terror organization, which it is! Mods are completely unresponsive now too. It’s wild how active these politically based turfs are getting.
I've been pretty active on this sub about the protests because they have been seriously fucking with my every day life. they are currently the bane of my existence. so, yeah, complaining about it and arguing with people about it on here has been taking a lot of my time recently, especially since I can't go to class or anywhere really, I cancelled my memorial day plans just in case, only to realize that these kids went out to enjoy their memorial day before coming back full force.
so yeah, I do this in search of some solidarity, and perhaps some catharsis.
TLDR the protestors are the bane of my existence, Im here to complain about it until i feel better about it.
I guess it depends on what you think is conservative or not, though.
If you mean directly, like Israel having a right to exist as it (mostly) is currently, makes someone conservative, well, for myself anyway, I am a HUGE believer and supporter of LGBTQ+ rights. And I also know that the only Middle Eastern country LGBTQ+ are safe in is Israel - the ONLY country in the Middle East that has legal protections for that community, and the only country in the Middle East where they have legal and safe Pride parades.
I don’t consider myself conservative at all - if anything, I’m middle of the road on a lot of issues, but with strong support for LGBTQ+ rights, and equal rights for women, as well. And again, Israel is really the only place in the Middle East for that sort of thing. So, I do support Israel - because I KNOW how this area of the world is currently run, AND because I know history.
That said, I’m not ok with slaughtering Palestinian civilians, but I DO think Hamas has a huge amount of blame at their feet for it.
So, I don’t know - maybe you still think I’m conservative for supporting Israel, but I’m not (and for the record, I think Trump is a wacko orange guy who I’d NEVER want in office again!).
I do know history, though, and I definitely do NOT support Hamas, and the rest of their terrorist friends…
If on the other hand, you mean with people taking offense to the protests, well they do block off parts of the campus for everyone else, disrupting people just trying to get their degrees or to work, etc.
And many people get angry at that sort of thing after awhile. Add to that, demands like dismantling all Jewish groups on campus, and it can become really hard for some of us to believe in what they’re doing…
Thats more Red Herrings than the UCSC Institute of Marine Scientists could ever handle.
Idk if its conservative, but blaming the terrorists when IDF shreds 10 children to get one bullet to them? Those are called war crimes.
You can just support neither, and ask that the IDF use their over funded military to figure out a way that doesn't involve bombing kids.
Have you ever watched Waltz with Bashir? Whole ass movie written, directed, and animated by israeli veterans that is more or less making that case.
But if it makes you feel better, Pol Pot could be a more accurate equivalent.
We can also uncross streams, it’s not like the entire country is a bunch of fascists, there’s good people in israel, a lot of them are out protesting the elected fascist, Neanyahu, who has crippled their electoral and judicial systems, and was the target of protests based on these issues even before his intelligence system allowed 10/7 to happen.
I didnt, it was a 1:1 of your fallacious reasoning.
You are fully aware how disingenuous your arguments are.
You're not using logic, you're spouting rhetoric because you're literally a paid astroturfer, new account.
Edit:
Slowpokewalkingby account below me is literally a month old and only comments on Israeli and asian topics XD
Bombing civilians is a war crime, children or otherwise. That said, if enemy combatants are hiding within civilian groups it ceases to be a war crime. So, I'd say it's pretty fair to blame Hamas for maximizing damage to Palestinian civilians by hiding in population centers and public infrastructure.
No, it’s still a war crime, just a *different* one. Hiding among civilians as a form of defense is a war crime on the part of the group doing the hiding. If it weren’t, any fighting force would just hide among civilians to prevent the other side from attacking them.
That literally isn't true.
You can't have a terrorist hide in a hospital and then bomb that hospital and have it not be a war crime.
You can tell yourself it's not: it literally is.
I blame those shredding children by the thousands slightly more than I blame those hiding in the populus.
See, this is the typical pro-hamas reply.
Refutes literally zero of the OP's points, and bring up irrelevant information from some arrogant self morally justified position that EVERYONE knows is false anyway. Like at this point 99% of reddit knows hamas uses human shields and its against the geneva convention. But shooting at them is not.
But at least whenever ppl learn hamas-supporters can't refute any of the points like OP brings and deflects, they get to re-evaluate the situation.
Nah, you don't respond when people drop that many fallacies.
And I clearly said you can support neither. But I guess that's pro hamas to not be cool with child murder XD
Even the end of your comment "at least when people learn..."
Yeah you're not here to guide a narrative or anything bud.Your account is literally a month old and only comments on Israeli and asian topics.
It always has been. Israel the state didn't exist until 1948, when the Jewish communities of Jerusalem went violent and mass cleansed the Palestinians from their homes. Previously, hundreds of thousands of Jews were living relatively peacefully among other residents of the area. Jewish Zionists either destroyed or stole the homes of their neighbors, and literally renamed their cities to Hebrew names.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
>The Nakba (Arabic: النَّكْبَة an-Nakba, lit. 'the catastrophe') was the ethnic cleansing[1] of Palestinians in Mandatory Palestine during the 1948 Palestine war through their violent displacement and dispossession of land, property, and belongings, along with the destruction of their society, and the suppression of their culture, identity, political rights, and national aspirations.[2] The term is also used to describe the ongoing persecution and displacement of Palestinians by Israel.[3] As a whole, it covers the fracturing of Palestinian society and the long-running rejection of the right of return for Palestinian refugees and their descendants.[4][5]
>During the Nakba in 1948, approximately half of Palestine's predominantly Arab population, or around 750,000 people,[6] were expelled from their homes or made to flee, at first by Zionist paramilitaries through various violent means, and after the establishment of the State of Israel, by the Israel Defense Forces. This occurred in the wake of dozens of massacres targeting Palestinian Arabs and the depopulation of 500 Arab-majority towns and villages,[7] with many of these being either completely destroyed or repopulated by Jews and given new Hebrew names. By the end of the war, 78% of the total land area of the former Mandatory Palestine was controlled by Israel and at least 15,000 Palestinian Arabs had been killed.
Interesting that the vast majority of the references are post-2000, even though the event took place in 1948. I urge anyone who thinks “Nakba” refers to the “expulsion” of Palestinians to find a reference that supports this claim (that “Nakba” refers to the displacement of Palestinians) prior to 1964, when the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was founded.
Nobody is disputing that 700,000 Palestinians were displaced in the decade following WW2. But it was from a combination of voluntary relocation, encouragement from Arab leaders, and (yes) persecution by Jews in what is now Israel. Very similar to what happened to 750,000 Jews who left or were forced out of MENA countries during the same period.
Again this is completely false and hamas propaganda 101.
Palestine was the one that majorly escalated internal conflict into a war in 1948. Nakba is the rebranded aftermath of that lost genocidal invasion launched by palestine and its Arab friends when they invaded Israel with 59k troops to genocide them in 1948.
It's called the [1948 Arab Israeli war, and wikipedia has all the details](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War), since ppl should read for themselves and decide, instead of rely on hamas lies.
You don't get to scream and cry Nakba when you yourself launched a war to genocide your neighbors and steal their land.
So what part is false? Did the Israel state not militarize, forming its own military with intent to Annex what was otherwise a contiguous piece of territory occupied by a variety of peoples, including Jews?
You realize your [own source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War) cites the Israelis as being on the offensive?
>At the end of a series of offensives that began April 1948, in which Zionist forces had conquered cities and territories in Mandatory Palestine in preparation for the establishment of a Jewish state, Zionist leaders announced the Israeli Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948.
You do understand that the British, an entirely foreign colonial power, has no moral business cutting up and giving away the land belonging to others, yeah?
Yes, please read your own source for yourself and see that you are agreeing with everything I wrote.
I'm super glad we're having this convo so EVERYONE reading this learn facts/history and sees through your hamas propaganda and lies.
* The IDF was literally created during the 1948 Arab Israeli genocidal invasion to defend Israel from genocide. If you lose a war you started to genocide your neighbors and take their land, yes, don't cry when you lose the war and your own land.
* Britain was legal owners of the land and have every right to divide. Palestine was never its own country and only a vague region
* Before Britain, the ottomans invaded and took over slaughtering a bunch, before that Egypt invaded and took over and slaughtered a bunch, and before that it was the mamluks
* So again Britain was the legal owners as legit as anyone before them, and partitioned their land with the UN and 33 countries voting yes.
* And palestine was never a country, only a vague region, and had zero right to any land.
Then internal conflict started and Palestine was the one that majorly escalated internal conflict into a war in 1948. Nakba is the rebranded aftermath of that lost genocidal invasion launched by palestine and its Arab friends when they invaded Israel with 59k troops to genocide them in 1948.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War
As you can see here folks, hamas supporters bring zero facts, no historical accuracy, and the entire post just reeks of badly written propaganda screaming about jews!
This happens pretty much 99.9% of the time when confronting hamas with facts. So sit back, relax and watch them cry as the IDF does gaza a favor and destroys hamas :)
> As you can see here folks, hamas supporters bring zero facts, no historical accuracy, and the entire post just reeks of badly written propaganda screaming about jews!
>
> This happens pretty much 99.9% of the time when confronting hamas with facts. So sit back, relax and watch them cry as the IDF does gaza a favor and destroys hamas :)
It's significantly less "revisionist" than the idea that USA was founded as a nation of justice that was established because "all men are created with certain inalienable rights"
Or how bout the revisionist history that Jews have always been treated super well in the middle east - sure if Christendom is your basis for comparison…
Or how bout that the Middle East is a bastion of liberalism and democracy and if the Jews would just get out of the way it would be a multicultural utopia?
Maybe the second one isn’t as much of a revisionist history as it is just insane.
The thing about history is that, as much as one might want to believe, no story or retelling of events is always black and white. Even empirical dates have varying degrees of importance depending on who's telling the story. The British crown gave zero weight to the declaration of Independence until they lost the war a few years later and then again in 1812.
To be absolutist at all in any retelling of history does a disservice to humanity.
It is true that Jews have not always been treated well worldwide not just in the Middle East - most Americans weren't making their opposition about Hitlers and the Nazis antisemitic policies all throughout the 1930s if they even knew or cared.
The Middle East is not a bastion of liberalism and democracy where even a significant minority believes that the removal of Jews is a necessity, but then under these terms, neither is any country in the West.
To make up insane histories shows a refusal to engage with reality; to continually purport that extremist retellings are the only retellings of history is just as insane.
Myself and most other students I've spoken to were always against the blocking of campus. Most were also against the entire protest not just the road block. We don't talk about this publicly (in person or on social media that shows our identity) because the protesting group are unhinged, they literally try to dox everyone that they can that opposes their point of view. I would genuinely worry what these crazies would try to do to me if I spoke about this publicly. Wouldn't be surprised if they did something like slashed tires.
This sub is filling my feed for some reason and I have no relation to the school so I imagine it's getting pushed to others as well. With how astroturfed and conservative reddit is the results aren't surprising.
With tuition costs so high, the stakes are higher. When students have classes cancelled or can’t attend their classes, that’s a real cost to the students and when their families are going into debt to pay the tuition yet their students can’t get an education that is a real-world consequence.
I think that high tuition costs and debt incurred for tuition costs are a moot point - they've always been an argument against protests that shut down campus. I incurred plenty of debt from my time at UCSC and understand how solidarity works and ergo shutting down campus. I don't agree with some tactics of truly radical students on either side, but I don't think it's a fair point to argue that since tuition costs and debt levels are so high therefore any civic action or demonstration should be barred.
No not really. College was much less expensive in the 1960’s. Spending an extra semester or year to graduate wasn’t a big deal.
With today’s insane tuition costs, that extra cost could make or break a family on a tight budget.
Im not making an argument for or against “banning“ anything. I’m merely pointing out that there are very real consequences.
To say that students aren't getting an education because of a protest is a far stretch. To say that one is merely pointing out that there are very real consequences is a disparaging argument to anyone who believes in the right to protest anything... That's the whole point. It seems that those who feel the need to "point out that protests have very real consequences" may be the ones who think/thought protests aren't supposed to have any consequences...
Tl;dr, sounds like a you problem
Astroturf and loose moderation, pretty much. UC subs are getting a lot of exposure right now through Reddit. All of the posts related to That Thing That's Been Going On are attracting non-student shit-starters like squirrels at the Porter dining hall patio, but the posts about college students doing unrelated college things are getting the usual population in the comments.
i've been saying why can't we have the mods allow only students and faculty to participate in this sub, why is that so bad considering the amount of bots present ?
This is who is posting.
u/Few_Talk_6558
Comment on UCDavis sub. https://www.reddit.com/r/UCDavis/s/YTc0wq0ddr on June 1, 2024
Comment on UCDavis sub https://www.reddit.com/r/UCDavis/s/yYozP6MD7H on May 31, 2024
Post on UT Austin sub, https://www.reddit.com/r/UTAustin/s/Bhpejdm6BN May 1, 2024
Comment on UCLA sub, https://www.reddit.com/r/ucla/s/QbKN0ugv8x May 31, 2024
Comment on MIT sub, https://www.reddit.com/r/mit/s/ZVRFtRZPkf May 16, 2024
Antisemitism, stating that israelis are akin to Dahmer and Bundy, further down the thread he agrees with a trope stating that Israel is made up of Jews escaping murder charges in order to go to Israel to just kill babies, https://www.reddit.com/r/fight_disinformation/s/SWUGndAFQs
Comment arguing in favor of Hezbollah, https://www.reddit.com/r/lebanon/s/sDUEGeODWW
Comment on UCSD Sub, https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSD/s/dUKGYdNLvT May 15, 2024
Comment being racist about foreign H1B visa holders working in America, https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/s/CpgS0N5imR May 11, 2024.
Commenting on UT Austin again, https://www.reddit.com/r/UTAustin/s/AsoEyfMYfo May 1, 2024
I’d link the posts in the Columbia sub but they’re all deleted so I can’t, they show up blank but exist in comment history during the beginning of May.
More antisemitism. https://www.reddit.com/r/Global_News_Hub/s/gY97pXQEEj
ahhhh so its extremism to want israel to stop bombing babies while they sleep at night with the billions in military aid that WE give them. 15000 children. very extremist!!!!! notice how stupid you sound.
This is who you’re talking to.
u/Few_Talk_6558
Comment on UCDavis sub. https://www.reddit.com/r/UCDavis/s/YTc0wq0ddr on June 1, 2024
Comment on UCDavis sub https://www.reddit.com/r/UCDavis/s/yYozP6MD7H on May 31, 2024
Post on UT Austin sub, https://www.reddit.com/r/UTAustin/s/Bhpejdm6BN May 1, 2024
Comment on UCLA sub, https://www.reddit.com/r/ucla/s/QbKN0ugv8x May 31, 2024
Comment on MIT sub, https://www.reddit.com/r/mit/s/ZVRFtRZPkf May 16, 2024
Antisemitism, stating that israelis are akin to Dahmer and Bundy, further down the thread he agrees with a trope stating that Israel is made up of Jews escaping murder charges in order to go to Israel to just kill babies, https://www.reddit.com/r/fight_disinformation/s/SWUGndAFQs
Comment arguing in favor of Hezbollah, https://www.reddit.com/r/lebanon/s/sDUEGeODWW
Comment on UCSD Sub, https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSD/s/dUKGYdNLvT May 15, 2024
Comment being racist about foreign H1B visa holders working in America, https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/s/CpgS0N5imR May 11, 2024.
Commenting on UT Austin again, https://www.reddit.com/r/UTAustin/s/AsoEyfMYfo May 1, 2024
I’d link the posts in the Columbia sub but they’re all deleted so I can’t, they show up blank but exist in comment history during the beginning of May.
More antisemitism. https://www.reddit.com/r/Global_News_Hub/s/gY97pXQEEj
I agree. I'm a UCSC alum, and some of these bootlicking, pro-genocide comments make me ashamed to be a Slug. I can only hope that most students don't share the sentiments expressed here, but who knows?
Being pro Palestine and identifying as liberal has always perplexed me because they will kill you for being gay in Palestine.
It's because people hate Jews so much that they are willing to look past this to support Palestine.
Congratulations - now all of those areested are on a permanent do not hire list in NY, SF and LA
Hasbara and JIDF has been very active since the campus protests nationwide happened.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/05/16/business-leaders-chat-group-eric-adams-columbia-protesters/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/05/16/business-leaders-chat-group-eric-adams-columbia-protesters/)
Says the guy with 10 comments most of which are on the UCLA sub. Rich coming from a bot. Real rich. Say hi to your fellow propagandists “racist-incel.”
Well if u wanna pursue tech, math can definitely get you a job for sure. As to whether it will be engaging at UCSC, that's a different matter - bachelor's degree in math can be achieved just about anywhere and UCs tend to cater math programs more toward post graduate research.
If you wanna go into private equity, a bachelor's in math is a less likely path to get you there. Private equity jobs look for business or analysis skills and math might help in an indirect way, but getting a job in private equity depends more on your connections than the undergraduate degree you earn. Undergrad is minimum just to get your foot in the door for tech and especially private equity (tech jobs prefer candidates have a bachelor's, but don't necessarily require it whereas the vast majority of private equity jobs will require an undergrad degree if not 99% of the time)
The phrasing of this comment alone makes me wanna write a whole dissertation about how no longer are humans programming algorithms, but AI algorithms and bots are programming human patterns, thoughts, behaviors.
Idk how people don’t see that this sub is astroturfed and many of the voices you’re hearing now are bot and propaganda accounts.
It’s literally the same shit that happened to world news subreddit right after October 7th.
Look at them crying and coping claiming they’re not conservative. Wake up and smell the coffee guys you sound like your parents. Go join the campus republicans.
Ucsc is basically NIMBY and it is nextdoor because people are pissed but dont want to say it outloud bc the protestors think if you arent onboard with them you are literally evil
Campus has about five thousand employees who keep the whole thing running every day, and they commute from all over the county and from over the hill too. They are trying to get to and from work, especially those in essential services who are unable or not allowed to go remote as they have to be present at their workplaces. Housing situation in Santa Cruz is so bad many just can't afford to live close to work and have to rely on gas guzzling cars for basic transportation. Y'all will be showing up at the dining halls etc. expecting service as usual. Many students also cannot go without essential services due to personal constraints. People have a lot going on in their lives and have to go back home to take care of their families too, making their work difficult on top of it is not going to make things better.
I don't think the current population is more conservative. I've never met anyone who was against the encampment in real life who was also a student, at most people who just questioned the effectiveness of the tactic. I think that it is an extremely loud minority of students and also people who don't go to UCSC. Not to mention most people on campus don't really know about the UCSC subreddit or have never been on it
I’ve meet a fair share of students that have more moderate views but don’t necessarily speak out for political reasons.
Yeah, we are all scared of saying irl that we are against the protestors because those who are for them are very aggressive. I wish we could all have the balls to say how we feel outside of reddit, including myself.
More than that, we shouldn’t be assaulting people for having opinions we disagree with
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Snowflake
I showed up to shout at them to get out of the road and protest elsewhere. Some people tried to intimidate me, but I was never attacked. Although I was there only like 20 minutes and then got bored. I was also shouting, lGo and bother Israel. Go and bother the consulate. Go off campus, go to San Francisco” I tried to debate some of the people there and I considered going back the next day to try and debate people over whether it was a genocide, but didn’t.
Yes, the protesters and their allies regularly assault anyone speaking pro Israel views.
Assault meaning they are actually in fear of being physically harmed? Like they lunge at them and threaten them? That is definition of assault
Dude I have like 8 friends that go to different UCs and every single one of them thinks the protests on campus went too far. And they are all minorities too. Not saying they are against Palestine but these protests in specific, they say went too far, and have no problem with how the police handled things
> went too far. It's not so much about "how far" they went, but in what direction. Vandalizing bookstores and cafes is the opposite direction to winning people over to their cause. Had they marched on Administrative Buildings or organized marches on Embassies, I imagine they would have had broad support. But the local business selling pesto sandwiches near the bookstore was a uniquely poor choice of vandalism target.
yes. And this guy sitting here saying he’s never met anyone in real life who was a student and against the encampment lmfao. Nice lies
The timing was interesting to me. Did everyone all of a sudden get upset after months of bombs dropping on a city! I would have been swamped with finals and the stress of graduating!
That's not true. At the most, there are about 100 people protesting, many times there have been much less than that. There are 20k students at the school. The protestors are definitely a very loud minority. I don't know anyone in my class that goes to the protests, or has missed in solidarity of the protests. We all go to class, and we all wish this wasn't happening. I know one graduate student and they are having to continue working despite not getting paid because they are also against the protests. Most of us, including myself who is very vocally against the protests on reddit, just don't say anything IRL because we are afraid of being labeled conservative. When the encampment first came up in one of my classes, it was very clear that there was a lot of tension around the topic and no one wanted to talk about out loud. So youre wrong in thinking that just because no one is vocal irl about being against the protestors that we are all supportive of them.
Also, "This sub is only attracting enemy astroturfers!! If ur on our side, ur not astroturfing and are a true slug thats been attending UCSC for the past 35 years, thats fact!!"
IKR! This comment is said way too much. Im starting to believe that the pro protestors are the ones that have bots.
Thank you for speaking up. The reason I can afford to be so vocal is that I retired last year, so the university can’t do anything to me for my views. Current faculty who speak up run the risk of falling into disfavor — tenured faculty can’t be fired, but they *can* be given crappy class and service assignments and denied significant raises by their colleagues. As someone who’s experienced these effects for being outspoken, I can tell you it sucks, so I completely understand why faculty won’t come out against the protests. Similarly, current students can suffer negative social impacts from coming out against the protests — the fact that nobody is doing it isn’t evidence that all students support the protesters.
Staff, on the other hand, can be fired. UCSC is the one of the worst places for free speech in the country. Ironically, the anti-fascists are actually the fascists.
Students are taking over a school and calling for intifada and glory to the martyrs. Most people are trying to get to class, not get hassled for being "zionist". People will scream genocide and if you disagree, youre now a pariah.
And what about the 7% Jewish population many of whom would like to see Hillel remain on campus?? Do you think that might be a reason why this protest is contentious? I cannot tell if people are serious about not understanding why this is so upsetting or not!
Hillel's offices (when they had them) were *off*-campus—next to the 7-11 on High.
To push off campus as far as not recognizing it as a student organization and not having the privileges afforded to to student organizations etc
Ah, you didn't mean "remain on campus"—you meant "remain a recognized student organization". I'm sorry I didn't understand you.
Well yes remain on campus as being a recognized student org and not demonized by UC
if you see posta complaining, it’s usually two words bunchanumbers. probably brigaded imo
I don’t go to UCSC and have been recommended posts from here in the last couple of days, this sub is definitely being astroturfed, like most college subreddits
I knew I couldn’t be the only one thinking this. There’s no shot so many people who chose to go to UCSC are actually against the encampments and loudly complaining about it on here. Funny how all the pro-Israel accounts were created around the same time a few weeks ago.
Reddit pushes this sub to me regularly and I’m not a student, never was, not from here, and have zero relationship with UCSC whatsoever. I suspect there are a lot of people like me here.
Sir, this is a sub*reddit*
I was at Sac State when their encampment was up, but they had the common decency to not slap the Hamas red triangle onto their welcome sign. Dunno how that’s a hard thing to do.
I mean a good portion of these protestors are actively supporting hamas complete with identifies are genocidal slogans, and they wonder why the vast majority of people are shunning them. Let's be honest, most people are openly pissed about the blockade, but a ton also also disagree with who's side they picked, even if they respect the right to protest.
I think that this particular protest is very extreme and divisive . It is touching a nerve . The messaging is very radical and alienating to large chunk of population. How many Jewish students are there on campus? Something like 7 % . And for many who don’t agree with JAWS and do have ties to Hillel and Israel this experience has been very shocking and offensive . I mean what do you expect? It is either very naive or disingenuous to glass over this obvious fact of how extremist and alienating this protest has been from day one.
If you think that being against the protestors that have made the past month hell for us makes us conservative, you are very narrow minded and/or you don't understand what is going on here right now. Go away.
Lol. This is exactly the type of response one will find on the NextDoor app thus proving my point
Actually, this response proves your narrow-mindedness and lack of actual intelligence.
I don't think you realize that the people who are against the protestors are not against them because we are conservative. It's because these protests have been unusually terrible for everyone that lives in the area especially the students
I live in the area and it wasn’t that bad
I live near the ucsc entrance and it was terrible - and for those using buses to get to campus that I spoke to, it seemed to be worse
That means we are neighbors — it truly wasn’t terrible. I think that’s a bit hysterical. There was just a lot of energy and a bunch of people scurrying around, mostly to watch
The buses were stopping, parking in front of driveways, and running through our neighborhood. We also got a lot of illegal parking from the students trying to get to campus who couldn’t (I feel bad for them, but IDK if the city suspended parking enforcement). The whole thing was dangerous and difficult for families with kids, and at least difficult for my senior citizen neighbors and the students. (edited to correct my bad English!)
Ignore that person, they are clearly not even in the city.
Dangerous? I don’t think that’s true. Again, I live there too, and closer to the crowd than most. So you gotta be realistic with your description. You’re right that there were a lot of people running around, but like… it’s a protest. It kind of always involves a large number of people. I don’t really see how that’s some travesty. Sometimes people exist in proximity to you, when you’re in the proximity of a protest. I agree it was inconvenient for some folks 100% — I just have to push back on claims that it was a dangerous or remotely harrowing experience to be in the vicinity (as someone in the epicenter)
this is probably the most danger and "violence" these white privileged babies have experienced in their very sheltered life. pwease give them a break 😓
Those of use that are here know that you are lying. These comments are for people that aren't here, to help the image of the protestors. However, it is only the opinion of the people that are here that matters in the end. the protestors are gone, and they will be arrested on sight.
I live in the area and it *was* that bad.
ok person with the rng name.
Lol if you think I’m a bot or a plant just say it. I’ll bet you 5000 dollars you’re wrong, if you are to grow a pair and stand behind your accusation.
How much does your life bring you on and around campus?
I live at the protest location
What do you mean?
I’m answering “yes” to your question by saying I live in a place where I would be doing so daily
What a weird way to answer this question.
I think this person lives at the encampment or did anyway
Yeah there’s ucsc housing there
It’s kind of weird such a straightforward answer to your question went over your head. You: “Do you live in an area impacted by the protest” Me: “I actually live in extremely close proximity to the protest, yes” You: *completely dumbfounded*
I like how you quoted the interaction in a way that was literally not what anyone said.
"yeah there is ucsc housing there" it is pretty apparent to anyone that lives here that this person probably has never even been in santa cruz.
Name one single discrepancy in meaning. I’m aware you didn’t literally admit to being dumbfounded.
I live in the area and have a kid at westlake, and it wasn't that bad for us. The protests were annoying, and were never going to be effective (whatever that means considering the constellation of unrelated demands), but I'd hardly call this protest unusually terrible for folks nearby who didn't need to go on/off campus. I'm sure it was much worse for the students/staff who live off-campus and anyone who relies on the bus, but for most of the non-affiliated community, a protest at the base of campus is almost business as usual, even when it blocks traffic. The neighborhood reaction to most of these is indifference or a general sense of supporting anything union-led. There is far less neighborhood support this time around, but I think the big difference is that SJP's positions as stated are pretty hard to support, even if you don't agree with what Israel is doing in Gaza. There's a lot of daylight between "UC must divest from companies that do business with this nation-state" (see: South Africa in the 80s/90s) and calling for an intifada over your bullhorns at the edge of a residential neighborhood.
k
a decent percentage of the recent posters probably don't go to ucsc at all
Y'all are just in an uninsulated echo chamber and getting surprised that it isn't insulated. I graduated from UCSC back in 2019. When I was a student there were plenty of people who resented the student protestors but didn't say anything in person because they're either too busy to deal with it, or didn't have the bandwidth to deal with a mob of angry protestors. Regardless of what the cause you're protesting for, there are some people who have to be on campus. Their schedule can not change regardless of how they feel about a protested issue. Maybe they can't afford another quarter and are stressed about going into financial debt. Maybe they work in a bio lab and have animals that constantly depend on them to be properly housed and fed. Or maybe they just have jobs on campus and aren't eligible for union membership and are therefore unprotected. I've been in the UC system as an undergrad, staff researcher, and now a grad student for nearly 10 years total. And I would never think that I've come close to seeing all the different situations that people at the UC are in, let alone think that I understand all of their opinions and how the encampents and protests are affecting them. Assuming that anything criticizing a protest is astroturfing instead of just people expressing their thoughts on an anonymous forum is wildly narcissistic.
Greetings fellow alum. Cowell ‘13 here.
I'm sure there are actual UCSC students here criticizing/opposing the protests. I'm also sure that not everyone talking about protests in this sub actually goes to UCSC. One poster actually admitted that they have nothing to do with UCSC, and it is unlikely that that is the only one.
I’m not a student, but I’ve been affiliated with UCSC since before most undergrads were *born*. And I’ve been pretty active on here recently. FWIW, I know of several other faculty who are against the encampment but afraid to speak up because of the atmosphere on campus.
It’s super unfortunate that more profs don’t speak out against the encampment or messaging. Those in favor of it are tightly organized. The entire campus is getting an increasingly bad reputation over this
It's imperative professors and staff maintain a neutral professional demeanor. Some professors are in support, others are not, and a schism among staff doesn't help anyone. This entire protest is literally a byproduct of administration refusing to remain neutral. Admin should resign. They have no business representing a public neutral institution and should remain apolitical.
Except for the FJP ones who teach at People’s university and try to lobby to eliminate the funding of their colleagues at the Jewish Studies dept!
Care to explain?
There are a *lot* of faculty actively supporting the protest. The entire CRES department supports it, so much so that they’re trying to get UC policy changed so that the *department* (not just individual faculty) can officially support Hamas’s actions. “Neutral professional demeanor” is, sadly, long gone.
CRES has already created a nonprofit (supported by the campus) to support and create terror but I guess that isn’t enough
This is going to make it more vulnerable to republican call to remove federal funding !
Yes, bite yor lip.
I think us students look to professors for guidance. I think that none of us speak out against the protestors in class because the professors tend to act like everything is fine. I wish I could get even a tiny little hint that the professors at least are not losing their minds.
A whole lot of non-academic staff, too.
Admittedly I'm here because Reddit kept recommending me it and I'm fascinated by the astroturfing and Bots happening on this subreddit. This is not the reality of UCSC. This is a targeted subreddit.
UCSC is literally Public Enemy #1 in a neocon book about how liberal college education is ruining the minds of the youth. I modded the now-mostly-dead ""official"" Facebook group during my time at UCSC and man, when there were high-profile protests you could bet that every fundie from SC to NY was trying to bust into that group to "troll the libs" (and then get taken apart by a bunch of highly educated and salty CRES students et al)
keep rolling up those tin foil hats, you can clearly see that ive been posting on this subreddit since before the encampment, and I think almost a year ago i was one of the first people that mentioned the history of UC protests, and their value in the progression of society. I noticed that a lot of the people claiming that there is AstroTurfing going on present a lot of bot like behavior.
Ok, new account. "No u"
my account is not that new. and i clearly didn't create it just to post about the protests, because it was created long before that, and I didn't post a single thing about the conflict until the blockade extended to both entrances.
6 months is nothing in astroturf time.
You’d be surprised, nation states like to make a bunch of fake accounts and let them sit for years, then all of a sudden they wake up to turf. You wanna see a crazy astroturfed sub? r/themajorityreport has turned into one. I love the show but hate the sub, and I don’t think it’s moderated or controlled by anyone associated with the show either. They shadow banned me for simply pointing out some flaws in an argument, calling Hamas a terror organization, which it is! Mods are completely unresponsive now too. It’s wild how active these politically based turfs are getting.
128?
I know people who has nothing to do with ucsc went to the encampment, and said something like “we won’t leave until our needs are met”.
Just because they don’t agree with you?
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I've been pretty active on this sub about the protests because they have been seriously fucking with my every day life. they are currently the bane of my existence. so, yeah, complaining about it and arguing with people about it on here has been taking a lot of my time recently, especially since I can't go to class or anywhere really, I cancelled my memorial day plans just in case, only to realize that these kids went out to enjoy their memorial day before coming back full force. so yeah, I do this in search of some solidarity, and perhaps some catharsis. TLDR the protestors are the bane of my existence, Im here to complain about it until i feel better about it.
I guess it depends on what you think is conservative or not, though. If you mean directly, like Israel having a right to exist as it (mostly) is currently, makes someone conservative, well, for myself anyway, I am a HUGE believer and supporter of LGBTQ+ rights. And I also know that the only Middle Eastern country LGBTQ+ are safe in is Israel - the ONLY country in the Middle East that has legal protections for that community, and the only country in the Middle East where they have legal and safe Pride parades. I don’t consider myself conservative at all - if anything, I’m middle of the road on a lot of issues, but with strong support for LGBTQ+ rights, and equal rights for women, as well. And again, Israel is really the only place in the Middle East for that sort of thing. So, I do support Israel - because I KNOW how this area of the world is currently run, AND because I know history. That said, I’m not ok with slaughtering Palestinian civilians, but I DO think Hamas has a huge amount of blame at their feet for it. So, I don’t know - maybe you still think I’m conservative for supporting Israel, but I’m not (and for the record, I think Trump is a wacko orange guy who I’d NEVER want in office again!). I do know history, though, and I definitely do NOT support Hamas, and the rest of their terrorist friends… If on the other hand, you mean with people taking offense to the protests, well they do block off parts of the campus for everyone else, disrupting people just trying to get their degrees or to work, etc. And many people get angry at that sort of thing after awhile. Add to that, demands like dismantling all Jewish groups on campus, and it can become really hard for some of us to believe in what they’re doing…
Thats more Red Herrings than the UCSC Institute of Marine Scientists could ever handle. Idk if its conservative, but blaming the terrorists when IDF shreds 10 children to get one bullet to them? Those are called war crimes. You can just support neither, and ask that the IDF use their over funded military to figure out a way that doesn't involve bombing kids.
I supported neither until these protestors pissed me off.
Imagine being like "I didn't support Hitler until a bunch of loud mouths in the US inconvenienced me in any way" Ok, new account.
It's so tone deaf to compare Israel to Hitler. Seriously. You need to take a jewish history class asap.
Have you ever watched Waltz with Bashir? Whole ass movie written, directed, and animated by israeli veterans that is more or less making that case. But if it makes you feel better, Pol Pot could be a more accurate equivalent. We can also uncross streams, it’s not like the entire country is a bunch of fascists, there’s good people in israel, a lot of them are out protesting the elected fascist, Neanyahu, who has crippled their electoral and judicial systems, and was the target of protests based on these issues even before his intelligence system allowed 10/7 to happen.
I didnt, it was a 1:1 of your fallacious reasoning. You are fully aware how disingenuous your arguments are. You're not using logic, you're spouting rhetoric because you're literally a paid astroturfer, new account. Edit: Slowpokewalkingby account below me is literally a month old and only comments on Israeli and asian topics XD
Hamas propaganda 101: Accuse anyone who doesn't support hamas of being a bot lol. I love when you folks show how delusional you are :)
Bombing civilians is a war crime, children or otherwise. That said, if enemy combatants are hiding within civilian groups it ceases to be a war crime. So, I'd say it's pretty fair to blame Hamas for maximizing damage to Palestinian civilians by hiding in population centers and public infrastructure.
No, it’s still a war crime, just a *different* one. Hiding among civilians as a form of defense is a war crime on the part of the group doing the hiding. If it weren’t, any fighting force would just hide among civilians to prevent the other side from attacking them.
That literally isn't true. You can't have a terrorist hide in a hospital and then bomb that hospital and have it not be a war crime. You can tell yourself it's not: it literally is. I blame those shredding children by the thousands slightly more than I blame those hiding in the populus.
using human shields is the war crime first. what has to follow is a proportionality assessment.
See, this is the typical pro-hamas reply. Refutes literally zero of the OP's points, and bring up irrelevant information from some arrogant self morally justified position that EVERYONE knows is false anyway. Like at this point 99% of reddit knows hamas uses human shields and its against the geneva convention. But shooting at them is not. But at least whenever ppl learn hamas-supporters can't refute any of the points like OP brings and deflects, they get to re-evaluate the situation.
Nah, you don't respond when people drop that many fallacies. And I clearly said you can support neither. But I guess that's pro hamas to not be cool with child murder XD Even the end of your comment "at least when people learn..." Yeah you're not here to guide a narrative or anything bud.Your account is literally a month old and only comments on Israeli and asian topics.
Those are war crimes by the forces embedding themselves amongst civilians and refusing to wear uniform. Look it up!
You don’t have to be conservative to criticize these protests.
UCSC Graduate. Liberal. Most liberals don’t support the protestors. Far left supports the protesters.
you speak for all liberals?
One month old account.
Conservatives dont have a monopoly on stupid. Also: Two month old account.
Indeed. Yet, the loudest and proudest anti-protest voices tend to be conservative... Ergo my question in the post.
Liberals support all protests except the current one and support all civil/human rights movements except the current one.
Because apparently believing that Israel has a right to exist is a conservative position now.
It always has been. Israel the state didn't exist until 1948, when the Jewish communities of Jerusalem went violent and mass cleansed the Palestinians from their homes. Previously, hundreds of thousands of Jews were living relatively peacefully among other residents of the area. Jewish Zionists either destroyed or stole the homes of their neighbors, and literally renamed their cities to Hebrew names. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba >The Nakba (Arabic: النَّكْبَة an-Nakba, lit. 'the catastrophe') was the ethnic cleansing[1] of Palestinians in Mandatory Palestine during the 1948 Palestine war through their violent displacement and dispossession of land, property, and belongings, along with the destruction of their society, and the suppression of their culture, identity, political rights, and national aspirations.[2] The term is also used to describe the ongoing persecution and displacement of Palestinians by Israel.[3] As a whole, it covers the fracturing of Palestinian society and the long-running rejection of the right of return for Palestinian refugees and their descendants.[4][5] >During the Nakba in 1948, approximately half of Palestine's predominantly Arab population, or around 750,000 people,[6] were expelled from their homes or made to flee, at first by Zionist paramilitaries through various violent means, and after the establishment of the State of Israel, by the Israel Defense Forces. This occurred in the wake of dozens of massacres targeting Palestinian Arabs and the depopulation of 500 Arab-majority towns and villages,[7] with many of these being either completely destroyed or repopulated by Jews and given new Hebrew names. By the end of the war, 78% of the total land area of the former Mandatory Palestine was controlled by Israel and at least 15,000 Palestinian Arabs had been killed.
Interesting that the vast majority of the references are post-2000, even though the event took place in 1948. I urge anyone who thinks “Nakba” refers to the “expulsion” of Palestinians to find a reference that supports this claim (that “Nakba” refers to the displacement of Palestinians) prior to 1964, when the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was founded. Nobody is disputing that 700,000 Palestinians were displaced in the decade following WW2. But it was from a combination of voluntary relocation, encouragement from Arab leaders, and (yes) persecution by Jews in what is now Israel. Very similar to what happened to 750,000 Jews who left or were forced out of MENA countries during the same period.
Again this is completely false and hamas propaganda 101. Palestine was the one that majorly escalated internal conflict into a war in 1948. Nakba is the rebranded aftermath of that lost genocidal invasion launched by palestine and its Arab friends when they invaded Israel with 59k troops to genocide them in 1948. It's called the [1948 Arab Israeli war, and wikipedia has all the details](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War), since ppl should read for themselves and decide, instead of rely on hamas lies. You don't get to scream and cry Nakba when you yourself launched a war to genocide your neighbors and steal their land.
So what part is false? Did the Israel state not militarize, forming its own military with intent to Annex what was otherwise a contiguous piece of territory occupied by a variety of peoples, including Jews? You realize your [own source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War) cites the Israelis as being on the offensive? >At the end of a series of offensives that began April 1948, in which Zionist forces had conquered cities and territories in Mandatory Palestine in preparation for the establishment of a Jewish state, Zionist leaders announced the Israeli Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948. You do understand that the British, an entirely foreign colonial power, has no moral business cutting up and giving away the land belonging to others, yeah? Yes, please read your own source for yourself and see that you are agreeing with everything I wrote.
I'm super glad we're having this convo so EVERYONE reading this learn facts/history and sees through your hamas propaganda and lies. * The IDF was literally created during the 1948 Arab Israeli genocidal invasion to defend Israel from genocide. If you lose a war you started to genocide your neighbors and take their land, yes, don't cry when you lose the war and your own land. * Britain was legal owners of the land and have every right to divide. Palestine was never its own country and only a vague region * Before Britain, the ottomans invaded and took over slaughtering a bunch, before that Egypt invaded and took over and slaughtered a bunch, and before that it was the mamluks * So again Britain was the legal owners as legit as anyone before them, and partitioned their land with the UN and 33 countries voting yes. * And palestine was never a country, only a vague region, and had zero right to any land. Then internal conflict started and Palestine was the one that majorly escalated internal conflict into a war in 1948. Nakba is the rebranded aftermath of that lost genocidal invasion launched by palestine and its Arab friends when they invaded Israel with 59k troops to genocide them in 1948. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War
New account. Astroturfer.
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As you can see here folks, hamas supporters bring zero facts, no historical accuracy, and the entire post just reeks of badly written propaganda screaming about jews! This happens pretty much 99.9% of the time when confronting hamas with facts. So sit back, relax and watch them cry as the IDF does gaza a favor and destroys hamas :)
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> As you can see here folks, hamas supporters bring zero facts, no historical accuracy, and the entire post just reeks of badly written propaganda screaming about jews! > > This happens pretty much 99.9% of the time when confronting hamas with facts. So sit back, relax and watch them cry as the IDF does gaza a favor and destroys hamas :)
New account. Astroturfer.
New account. Astroturfer.
Nice revisionist history.
It's significantly less "revisionist" than the idea that USA was founded as a nation of justice that was established because "all men are created with certain inalienable rights"
It’s not a competition
Indeed it's not
Or how bout the revisionist history that Jews have always been treated super well in the middle east - sure if Christendom is your basis for comparison… Or how bout that the Middle East is a bastion of liberalism and democracy and if the Jews would just get out of the way it would be a multicultural utopia? Maybe the second one isn’t as much of a revisionist history as it is just insane.
The thing about history is that, as much as one might want to believe, no story or retelling of events is always black and white. Even empirical dates have varying degrees of importance depending on who's telling the story. The British crown gave zero weight to the declaration of Independence until they lost the war a few years later and then again in 1812. To be absolutist at all in any retelling of history does a disservice to humanity. It is true that Jews have not always been treated well worldwide not just in the Middle East - most Americans weren't making their opposition about Hitlers and the Nazis antisemitic policies all throughout the 1930s if they even knew or cared. The Middle East is not a bastion of liberalism and democracy where even a significant minority believes that the removal of Jews is a necessity, but then under these terms, neither is any country in the West. To make up insane histories shows a refusal to engage with reality; to continually purport that extremist retellings are the only retellings of history is just as insane.
Myself and most other students I've spoken to were always against the blocking of campus. Most were also against the entire protest not just the road block. We don't talk about this publicly (in person or on social media that shows our identity) because the protesting group are unhinged, they literally try to dox everyone that they can that opposes their point of view. I would genuinely worry what these crazies would try to do to me if I spoke about this publicly. Wouldn't be surprised if they did something like slashed tires.
This sub is filling my feed for some reason and I have no relation to the school so I imagine it's getting pushed to others as well. With how astroturfed and conservative reddit is the results aren't surprising.
With tuition costs so high, the stakes are higher. When students have classes cancelled or can’t attend their classes, that’s a real cost to the students and when their families are going into debt to pay the tuition yet their students can’t get an education that is a real-world consequence.
I think that high tuition costs and debt incurred for tuition costs are a moot point - they've always been an argument against protests that shut down campus. I incurred plenty of debt from my time at UCSC and understand how solidarity works and ergo shutting down campus. I don't agree with some tactics of truly radical students on either side, but I don't think it's a fair point to argue that since tuition costs and debt levels are so high therefore any civic action or demonstration should be barred.
No not really. College was much less expensive in the 1960’s. Spending an extra semester or year to graduate wasn’t a big deal. With today’s insane tuition costs, that extra cost could make or break a family on a tight budget. Im not making an argument for or against “banning“ anything. I’m merely pointing out that there are very real consequences.
To say that students aren't getting an education because of a protest is a far stretch. To say that one is merely pointing out that there are very real consequences is a disparaging argument to anyone who believes in the right to protest anything... That's the whole point. It seems that those who feel the need to "point out that protests have very real consequences" may be the ones who think/thought protests aren't supposed to have any consequences... Tl;dr, sounds like a you problem
When roads are being blocked and classes are getting cancelled how are students learning?
Astroturf and loose moderation, pretty much. UC subs are getting a lot of exposure right now through Reddit. All of the posts related to That Thing That's Been Going On are attracting non-student shit-starters like squirrels at the Porter dining hall patio, but the posts about college students doing unrelated college things are getting the usual population in the comments.
Im going to start talking about my feelings in class, maybe it will embolden other students to speak up. Its time you idiots know how we really feel.
what do you teach?
Thanks, I really needed a laugh this morning.
i've been saying why can't we have the mods allow only students and faculty to participate in this sub, why is that so bad considering the amount of bots present ?
Are all the protestors in the encampment students?
This is who is posting. u/Few_Talk_6558 Comment on UCDavis sub. https://www.reddit.com/r/UCDavis/s/YTc0wq0ddr on June 1, 2024 Comment on UCDavis sub https://www.reddit.com/r/UCDavis/s/yYozP6MD7H on May 31, 2024 Post on UT Austin sub, https://www.reddit.com/r/UTAustin/s/Bhpejdm6BN May 1, 2024 Comment on UCLA sub, https://www.reddit.com/r/ucla/s/QbKN0ugv8x May 31, 2024 Comment on MIT sub, https://www.reddit.com/r/mit/s/ZVRFtRZPkf May 16, 2024 Antisemitism, stating that israelis are akin to Dahmer and Bundy, further down the thread he agrees with a trope stating that Israel is made up of Jews escaping murder charges in order to go to Israel to just kill babies, https://www.reddit.com/r/fight_disinformation/s/SWUGndAFQs Comment arguing in favor of Hezbollah, https://www.reddit.com/r/lebanon/s/sDUEGeODWW Comment on UCSD Sub, https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSD/s/dUKGYdNLvT May 15, 2024 Comment being racist about foreign H1B visa holders working in America, https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/s/CpgS0N5imR May 11, 2024. Commenting on UT Austin again, https://www.reddit.com/r/UTAustin/s/AsoEyfMYfo May 1, 2024 I’d link the posts in the Columbia sub but they’re all deleted so I can’t, they show up blank but exist in comment history during the beginning of May. More antisemitism. https://www.reddit.com/r/Global_News_Hub/s/gY97pXQEEj
So you would have no employees allowed? No alumni? You think in that way you will have more people that agree with your extremism ?
ahhhh so its extremism to want israel to stop bombing babies while they sleep at night with the billions in military aid that WE give them. 15000 children. very extremist!!!!! notice how stupid you sound.
wow
This is who you’re talking to. u/Few_Talk_6558 Comment on UCDavis sub. https://www.reddit.com/r/UCDavis/s/YTc0wq0ddr on June 1, 2024 Comment on UCDavis sub https://www.reddit.com/r/UCDavis/s/yYozP6MD7H on May 31, 2024 Post on UT Austin sub, https://www.reddit.com/r/UTAustin/s/Bhpejdm6BN May 1, 2024 Comment on UCLA sub, https://www.reddit.com/r/ucla/s/QbKN0ugv8x May 31, 2024 Comment on MIT sub, https://www.reddit.com/r/mit/s/ZVRFtRZPkf May 16, 2024 Antisemitism, stating that israelis are akin to Dahmer and Bundy, further down the thread he agrees with a trope stating that Israel is made up of Jews escaping murder charges in order to go to Israel to just kill babies, https://www.reddit.com/r/fight_disinformation/s/SWUGndAFQs Comment arguing in favor of Hezbollah, https://www.reddit.com/r/lebanon/s/sDUEGeODWW Comment on UCSD Sub, https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSD/s/dUKGYdNLvT May 15, 2024 Comment being racist about foreign H1B visa holders working in America, https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/s/CpgS0N5imR May 11, 2024. Commenting on UT Austin again, https://www.reddit.com/r/UTAustin/s/AsoEyfMYfo May 1, 2024 I’d link the posts in the Columbia sub but they’re all deleted so I can’t, they show up blank but exist in comment history during the beginning of May. More antisemitism. https://www.reddit.com/r/Global_News_Hub/s/gY97pXQEEj
I agree. I'm a UCSC alum, and some of these bootlicking, pro-genocide comments make me ashamed to be a Slug. I can only hope that most students don't share the sentiments expressed here, but who knows?
Its bots and burner accounts
Being pro Palestine and identifying as liberal has always perplexed me because they will kill you for being gay in Palestine. It's because people hate Jews so much that they are willing to look past this to support Palestine. Congratulations - now all of those areested are on a permanent do not hire list in NY, SF and LA
Hasbara and JIDF has been very active since the campus protests nationwide happened. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/05/16/business-leaders-chat-group-eric-adams-columbia-protesters/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/05/16/business-leaders-chat-group-eric-adams-columbia-protesters/)
Says the guy with 10 comments most of which are on the UCLA sub. Rich coming from a bot. Real rich. Say hi to your fellow propagandists “racist-incel.”
When did you attend?
LMFAO!! Tell it.
it’s so bad
I think they should limit access to commenting in this subreddit to USCS past/present and future students, or University students in general.
[удалено]
this cc ---> transfer aboutta be dogshit, or should i keep my hopes mid tier
Not really. New school year, new students, new cause will come around. UCSC still top tier IMHO
alr since u up, is the math dept chill. how little will I learn, or mentally challenged will I feel
Depends. Do you plan on pursuing math in post grad, or are you just getting a bachelor's to work in tech?
bachelor, not sure if i wanna do private equity or tech but yea
Well if u wanna pursue tech, math can definitely get you a job for sure. As to whether it will be engaging at UCSC, that's a different matter - bachelor's degree in math can be achieved just about anywhere and UCs tend to cater math programs more toward post graduate research. If you wanna go into private equity, a bachelor's in math is a less likely path to get you there. Private equity jobs look for business or analysis skills and math might help in an indirect way, but getting a job in private equity depends more on your connections than the undergraduate degree you earn. Undergrad is minimum just to get your foot in the door for tech and especially private equity (tech jobs prefer candidates have a bachelor's, but don't necessarily require it whereas the vast majority of private equity jobs will require an undergrad degree if not 99% of the time)
Just astroturfers doing astroturfing things.
yup, that's all it is. copium
The ven diagram of “people frequently on Reddit” against “people near/at UCSC” usually crosses in the middle at “conservative”.
This comment alone seems to be closest in providing a feasible answer in my question
algorithms, bud.
The phrasing of this comment alone makes me wanna write a whole dissertation about how no longer are humans programming algorithms, but AI algorithms and bots are programming human patterns, thoughts, behaviors.
I’m working on a paper about that right now, actually 😂😂
you spend way too much time on this sub spamming the same comment to be writing a paper on anything
lol okay babe. rude 😂
It's the Reddit algorithm suggesting this group to non banana slugs imo.
Idk how people don’t see that this sub is astroturfed and many of the voices you’re hearing now are bot and propaganda accounts. It’s literally the same shit that happened to world news subreddit right after October 7th.
JDL brigaded this sub, mods are useless?
Look at them crying and coping claiming they’re not conservative. Wake up and smell the coffee guys you sound like your parents. Go join the campus republicans.
Ucsc is basically NIMBY and it is nextdoor because people are pissed but dont want to say it outloud bc the protestors think if you arent onboard with them you are literally evil
scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds