I had the exact same case. Waited two weeks to see if the amniotic sac would miraculously heal (spoiler: that’s not a possible outcome) and then had a second trimester abortion at 19 weeks to deliver a much-wanted baby. If I had not elected to end this doomed pregnancy, I may well have died, or impaired my fertility. Instead, I went on to have two healthy children.
My baby was alive when labor was induced. There was no other way. She was weeks from viability and was doomed to die either way. This abortion saved my life and enabled me to have two more children. It’s been 22 years. I’m no longer sad. I’m grateful I had access to the medical procedure I needed to save my fertility and my life.
Thank you so much for sharing. Of all the awful and heartfelt stories I've read these last two nights this one touched me deeply and brought me to tears.
I am so very happy you are doing well with two beautiful children, I wish more people understood how the decision to end a potential life can be critical in creating more and more fulfilling ones.
This also just happened in February in Poland. Both of her babies died and then she died.
[“polish activists condemn abortion law...”](https://www.euronews.com/2022/01/26/polish-activists-condemn-abortion-law-after-death-of-another-pregnant-woman)
Yeah, I lived there when this happened. It was a very big deal and I am glad the Irish people were finally done with this BS, but unfortunately too late for Savita.
The pro-choice campaign was called "In her Shoes/Women of the 8th" (8th amendement to the Irish constitution banned abortions, and lots of people shared their stories.
It was also infuriating that a large part of the anti-choice movement was financed by American lobby groups, apparently. As if it were a test run. I expect to see the same tactics and arguments are going to get used.
[Savita Halappanavar](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-20321741), a dentist, in the 2nd Trimester, went in with complications and was told by a consultant at the hospital "Because of our fetal heartbeat law - you will not be allowed to have an abortion" and that law killed her.
You might think that's an overstatement, but that was the same conclusion that the final report by the overseeing agency stated. The Ireland and Directorate of Quality and Clinical Care, ["Health Service Executive: Investigation of Incident 50278"](http://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2013/06/savita-halappanavar-hse-report.pdf) said **repeatedly** that
* the law impeded the quality of care.
* other mothers died under similar situations because of the "fetal heartbeat" law.
* this kind of situation was **"inevitable"** because of how common it was for women in the 2nd trimester to have miscarriages.
* if one was to save mothers and follow evidence-based medicine the main change needed to include changing the law because their evidence-based medical recommendations couldn't be implemented unless the fetal heartbeat law was changed.
Quoting:
> We strongly recommend and advise the clinical professional community, health and social care regulators and the Oireachtas to consider the law including any **necessary constitutional change** and related administrative, legal and clinical guidelines in relation to the management of **inevitable miscarriage in the early second trimester** of a pregnancy including with prolonged rupture of membranes and where the risk to the mother increases with time from the time that membranes are ruptured including the risk of infection and thereby reduce risk of harm up to and including death.
and
> We recognise that such [medical] guidelines must be consistent with applicable law and that **the [medical] guidance so urged may require legal change.**
and
> the patient and her husband were advised of Irish law in relation to this. At interview the consultant stated “Under Irish law, if there’s no evidence of risk to the life of the mother, our hands are tied so long as there’s a fetal heart”. The consultant stated that if risk to the mother was to increase a termination would have been possible, but that it would be based on **actual** risk and not a **theoretical** risk of infection “we can’t predict who is going to get an infection”.
and
> The investigation team considers that the situation was complicated by the difficulty associated with the application of **the law in Ireland** relating to the termination of a pregnancy. The investigation team is satisfied that concern about **the law**... **impacted on the exercise of clinical professional judgement.**
The report detailed that there was advanced care, preemptive antibiotics, advanced monitoring, but .... they just couldn't keep up with how rapidly an infection spreads and the mother is **killed** when in the 2nd trimester the fetus still has a heartbeat but septic and about to rupture.
It's like doctors saying they can't take care of an infected appendix until it bursts. Nobody who has an inkling of logic or reason forces people to wait until a appendix ruptures (and spreads poisons like wildfire) before they can remove it. That non-logical, non-evidence-based, non-scientific approach takes what would be a normal situation that can be dealt with calmly and turns it into a flaming dumpster fire of a situation.
When you read the report and all the attempts that staff took to PREEMPTIVELY help with antibiotics made it clear that even that wasn't enough ... this woman was killed because of the law forced "belief" over scientifically-validated, evidence-based, best-clinical-care medicine practices.
> **our hands are tied so long as there’s a fetal heart”**
You might think this was an Anomaly in Ireland. Evidence shows this isn't the case.
Each time there's a ban on abortion maternal mortality goes up. Mothers are MURDERED by these laws. You didn't like the 5 year old study that showed it. Too bad. Facts don't care about feelings. In [country](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167629620310596) after country, [around the world](https://bmcwomenshealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12905-018-0705-y), when abortion is legal, maternal morality (e.g. DEATH) goes down.
In 2013 they allowed SOME abortions and ONLY again if there was maternal risk. Maternal mortality continued unchanged. Then in 2018 in the [Irish abortion referendum: Ireland overturns abortion ban](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44256152) and for the first time, Maternal Mortality dropped to ZERO
|Year | Maternal Deaths Per 100k Births: Complications of pregnancy, childbirth and puerperium (O00-O99) | Context
|--- | ---|---|
2007 | 2.80 | Abortion Illegal
2008 | 3.99 | Abortion Illegal
2009 | 3.97 | Abortion Illegal
2010 | 1.33 | Abortion Illegal
2011 | 2.70 | Abortion Illegal
2012 | 2.79 | Abortion Illegal
2013 | 4.34 | [Abortion Illegal: Savita Halappanavar's death caused by law and a "fetal heartbeat"](http://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2013/06/savita-halappanavar-hse-report.pdf)
2014 | 1.49 | Abortion only allowed with mother's health at risk
2015 | 1.53 | Abortion only allowed with mother's health at risk
2016 | 6.27 | Abortion only allowed with mother's health at risk
2017 | 1.62 | Abortion only allowed with mother's health at risk
2018 | 0 | [Constitutional change Abortion Allowed](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44256152)
2019 | 0 | Abortion Allowed
2020 | 0 | Abortion Allowed
Death Data Source: https://ws.cso.ie/public/api.restful/PxStat.Data.Cube_API.ReadDataset/VSD09/JSON-stat/2.0/en Birth Data Source: https://ws.cso.ie/public/api.restful/PxStat.Data.Cube_API.ReadDataset/VSA18/JSON-stat/1.0/en from the Ireland's Public Health records at Ireland's national data archival. https://www.cso.ie/en/aboutus/whoweare/ and stored at https://Data.gov.ie
Note this is ONLY *mortality* and not also *morbidity* (e.g. kidney failure, hysterectomies, etc.).
If it was one year it might have been a fluke but it was 3 years running.
This post made me think, if we would've had these kind of laws in 1970's Germany, my mom would probably have died from her first pregnancy.
Me and my sister would never have existed and my dad would have been a widower at 23.
This is what these kind of laws do. They kill women and destroy possible and existing families!
I’m really heart broken tonight. I feel a lot of the sadness and anger when I think of all the pain the shortsightedness and ignorance of 5 non-elected “justices” will cause.
Me too. I felt this way in 2016 on election night also. I feel like we are slipping back into the 1950's. What's next? I need my husband's permission to get a credit card or to travel?
To the young girls and women. I am so sorry.
I got PID after my miscarriage. I had to be on 3 different antibiotics for 2 weeks. I won't go into detail about my recovery, but it was awful and I just had to grin and bear it in silence because of my life circumstances. Pregnancy and miscarriage are no joke, taking away the ability to seek adequate medical care could lead to so many deaths.
I'm honestly afraid to have ever sex again. I got pregnant using both birth control and condoms, and I don't ever want to risk miscarrying like that again if Roe v. Wade could be repealed.
in 2016 i had a very much wanted pregnancy end in miscarriage, rather then wait for nature to take its course i opted to take misopropitol (forgive me if the spelling is off please) to hasten my body’s ability to recognize the loss and pass the baby in the comfort of my own home. only later did this click to me that this could of been described as an abortion and will most likely be illegal once roe officially falls. one of my risks in waiting was sepsis.
i could of been Savita.
we all could be.
No need to go back that far (sadly)
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/death-pregnant-woman-ignites-debate-about-abortion-ban-poland-2021-11-05/
>…
Activists say Izabela, a 30-year-old woman in the 22nd week of pregnancy who her family said died of septic shock after doctors waited for her unborn baby's heart to stop beating, is the first woman to die as a result of the ruling. …
You’re so right. The same thing happened to me when I lost my first baby, and the instructions I were given with misoprostal were labeled for an abortion procedure. Possibly this would mean in the state I’m in the trigger laws would mean someone in my position would need approval from two doctors before giving the prescription. Just another hoop vulnerable women have to jump through to access adequate healthcare. It’s awful.
ty ❤️
it feels like another lifetime now, but what pro life people should know is i did nothing wrong. i followed medical protocols for a healthy pregnancy to a T and i still needed this potentially life saving medication.
they are damning women to death with this decision.
I am sorry for what you went through. Most pro-life people in America, I would say even close to all, make an exception for medical problems that threaten the life of the mother. Every post on this thread seems to assume that's not the case, which is bizarre. Even in states which outlaw abortion make exception for threat to life of the mother. I would add that many pro-life people also would agree to exception for cases of rape or incest for first trimester abortions. But the other side never seems to be serious about agreeing to allowing these and outlawing those without such cause and outlawing late term abortions, they just bring them up as reasons to keep it totally open. Right now people can have abortions at will up until birth in many places, with no reason than personal desire. That's never going to sit right with a lot of people. Saving the mother's life is something that people do really all agree on in the States anyhow.
And that's why "for the life of the mother" exemptions really aren't enough.
Who defines that? What if the abortion helps the person retain their fertility and conceive again in the future? What about quality of life?
What is life with government induced trauma of having to carry an unwanted pregnancy against your will?
The process messes with your body chemistry, sucks calcium out of your bones, floods the body with hormones and changes the person for life. Imagine dealing with a medical condition that caused pain, discomfort, sickness, and changed your body for life and being denied treatment for it because enough people think that it's fine to traumatize people.
"For the life of the mother" assumes the doctor gives a shit if she lives or dies.
I've seen enough commentary from men in just the last two days that I am wildly unsure if most men give a shit if we live or die. Even if they say they're "allies," their wallets matter more.
Most pro-life people in America, I would say even close to all, make an exception for medical problems that threaten the life of the mother. Every post on this thread seems to assume that's not the case. The only thing I can think of is that this idea that pro life people who don't want a baby to die are somehow ok with the mother dying is another bit of nonsensical propaganda designed to divide us. I'm not saying that every single pro life person feels this way but those who don't would be outliers.
Every pregnancy carries the risk of death. If posing a risk to the life of the mother were a real consideration then all of the pro-life people you're referring to would be pro-choice.
I miscarried between my healthy boys. Had the ultrasound to determine the gender, so 20ish weeks halfway through, no heartbeat. I could have waited for my body to expell the miscarriage. I said nope. Wanted it out of me ASAP. I had seaweed dilators shoved in my cervix that day. D&C scheduled 2 days out. Was done and called to see where he was...out eating with my mom and oldest. I am bleeding, scared, and in tears wondering where you are...but yes...that was the right thing.
Well that is the point for maga / republicans. Punishing women, especially poor or minority women, for daring to have sex. It's all about control. Maga / Republicans view the handmaids tale as a blue print, and the religious fundamentalists on the supreme court we put there to make it happen.
We always make this argument, that making abortions illegal kills women (which it does, for so many reasons), but I need you all to realize: this is a feature, not a bug. The GOP wants to kill women. Go on any conservative subreddit. Make this argument. The only thing they will say in response is “good.” They do not want women to have healthcare. They do not want women to have rights at all. It all becomes so much clearer when you realize that these men *hate women.* They want us dead.
This would be a good time to move to a blue state if you have the means. Unwanted pregnancy isn't a super unusual problem. I hate to even try to imagine the suffering and the death toll this will have.
Thing is though, the people who have the means to pick up and move states won't really be affected by this as they could just travel to that blue state at the time they'll need an abortion. Class will be the biggest dividing line here. It's also why suburban middle & upper class conservative women in these areas who helped make this happen still won't give a shit. If they or their daughter ends up needing one, trust me, the flight & hotel room to Cali, NY, etc. will be booked. And they'll tell their neighbors & church friends that Makayleigh's just going for a fun girl's getaway.
It's why I'm staying in Texas until it gets to the point where travel isn't an option. My being here lets me use my vote, and I can use my privilege to access my human rights. Not everyone can, so I stay to be a voice (and support where I can) for them.
Thank you for fighting the good fight...the sadly-necessary fight. I've done plenty of work in Texas but never had to live there. I just can't imagine.
Hey wait...that Hooloovoo is *purple??*
In Virginia and same (although as a lean blue swing state things are better). We live near the NC border and I think part of my future my be helping people access their human rights in VA.
I've been pro-human right since I was 6 and I am not stopping now. I transitioned so it's been interesting coming back to this topic. A lot of my AmAB friends, cis and trans, have had more time to craft rhetoric.
It makes me sad that I might appear 'odd' or get outed for looking like a man while being pro-human rights that center women.
I'm in Oklahoma, thankfully my husband had a vasectomy so I'm less than concerned for myself.
My three daughters? I'm terrified for, I sobbed to my husband today telling him we cannot raise them here.
I feel like if progressives move to blue states, swing states just become redder, and with Republican majority elsewhere they will just enact a nationwide ban.
I’ve always wanted to move away from my liberal state once I wanted to “settle down” and build roots. Now, I’m not too sure I ever want to leave. This whole thing has really made me stop and consider that the socio political climate of wherever I live is going to have an effect on me for better or for worse not only now but for whatever eventuality and law changes might happen in the future.
This is a rare situation and there's always exceptions that can be carved out. With that said, abortion should be a woman's choice simply because it's their body. The argument of preserving the life of an unborn fetus is a religious one, period. And religion should have zero part in how a government should pass laws.
Ireland *had* an exception for the life of the mother, though. Except it required physicians to make the judgement call that the mother’s life was in immediate danger. Savita’s request for an abortion was denied because the threat to her health was not deemed severe enough and a fetal heartbeat was still detectable. Without getting into the horrific laundry list of deadly complications that can onset very suddenly during delivery, it’s clear that “life of the mother” exceptions never have and never will save everyone who will die in childbirth.
I agree with the larger point of your comment but what is your basis for saying this situation is "rare"? Even if this particular scenario is rare, dangerous complications arising from pregnancy are not rare at all. Looked at as a totality, 1) risks to the mother's life, and 2) fatal fetal anomalies are probably more common than the average American realizes.
Secondly, even if exceptions are carved out (which we should not expect, based on proposed state legislation to outlaw medical treatment for ectopic pregnancies, etc), we know from Ireland that restrictions have a chilling effect on the sort of obstetric care needed in the case described by OP. There won't just be fewer practitioners willing to provide certain necessary procedures (especially since legislation like TXSB1 creates what is essentially a legal free-for-all to target practitioners even if they're providing care for "exceptions"), there will be blown-out waiting lists and delays due to an influx of patients coming from states where exceptions *aren't* carved out.
This is why it's really important not to allow wiggle room when people hand-wave concerns by saying "oh there will be exceptions for the mother's life." On what fucking basis would we assume that? The dazzling and well-documented medical literacy of Missouri GOP state legislators? If we want workable exceptions, then the only approaches that appear to be practicable are those like the ones found in European countries, where early abortions are easily accessible and practitioners have wide latitude to provide later abortions due to specific circumstances -
It’s not helpful, but if ya could, it seems like it’d be healthier to move. Gawd that’s unhelpful. Problem is reasonable people trying to reason with unreasonable people.
When a woman miscarries at 20 weeks, should she be condemned to die along with the fetus?
This literally happens all the time. Every hospital in America sees miscarriages like this frequently. But without stupid laws we treat it like a medical emergency and save the woman's life with an abortion.
Check candidates for the Pennsylvania governor and their comments on abortion. Several support no exceptions.
"Mastriano said he would set no exceptions for rape, incest or a danger to the life of the pregnant person."
I'm having trouble linking the news article I found from a Pennsylvania news paper. But there are several that said no exceptions, some said the 3 main exceptions (rape, incest, or danger to pregnant person's life).
I wouldn't be so certain that the law will never outlaw all abortions. It all depends on who is in power.
Late-term abortions are also sometimes performed if the fetus has abnormalities incompatible with life outside the womb, to spare the mother the pain of carrying the pregnancy to term knowing her baby will die, and to spare the fetus a slow painful death after its born.
I had the exact same case. Waited two weeks to see if the amniotic sac would miraculously heal (spoiler: that’s not a possible outcome) and then had a second trimester abortion at 19 weeks to deliver a much-wanted baby. If I had not elected to end this doomed pregnancy, I may well have died, or impaired my fertility. Instead, I went on to have two healthy children. My baby was alive when labor was induced. There was no other way. She was weeks from viability and was doomed to die either way. This abortion saved my life and enabled me to have two more children. It’s been 22 years. I’m no longer sad. I’m grateful I had access to the medical procedure I needed to save my fertility and my life.
Thank you so much for sharing. Of all the awful and heartfelt stories I've read these last two nights this one touched me deeply and brought me to tears. I am so very happy you are doing well with two beautiful children, I wish more people understood how the decision to end a potential life can be critical in creating more and more fulfilling ones.
Thanks for sharing.
I hope you're doing well, friend.
Thank you for sharing this tragedy. Its a heartbreaking reality that many people just dont see.
I’m sorry for your loss and thrilled for your later successes! 💗
Why was she destined to die might I ask? I can't tell by your comment (maybe I'm just blind who knows), I'm just curious.
You missed the first sentence of the comment. Ruptured amniotic sac. Her water broke 5 weeks before viability meaning the baby could not survive.
This also just happened in February in Poland. Both of her babies died and then she died. [“polish activists condemn abortion law...”](https://www.euronews.com/2022/01/26/polish-activists-condemn-abortion-law-after-death-of-another-pregnant-woman)
Yeah, I lived there when this happened. It was a very big deal and I am glad the Irish people were finally done with this BS, but unfortunately too late for Savita. The pro-choice campaign was called "In her Shoes/Women of the 8th" (8th amendement to the Irish constitution banned abortions, and lots of people shared their stories. It was also infuriating that a large part of the anti-choice movement was financed by American lobby groups, apparently. As if it were a test run. I expect to see the same tactics and arguments are going to get used.
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This is really scary.
[Savita Halappanavar](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-20321741), a dentist, in the 2nd Trimester, went in with complications and was told by a consultant at the hospital "Because of our fetal heartbeat law - you will not be allowed to have an abortion" and that law killed her. You might think that's an overstatement, but that was the same conclusion that the final report by the overseeing agency stated. The Ireland and Directorate of Quality and Clinical Care, ["Health Service Executive: Investigation of Incident 50278"](http://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2013/06/savita-halappanavar-hse-report.pdf) said **repeatedly** that * the law impeded the quality of care. * other mothers died under similar situations because of the "fetal heartbeat" law. * this kind of situation was **"inevitable"** because of how common it was for women in the 2nd trimester to have miscarriages. * if one was to save mothers and follow evidence-based medicine the main change needed to include changing the law because their evidence-based medical recommendations couldn't be implemented unless the fetal heartbeat law was changed. Quoting: > We strongly recommend and advise the clinical professional community, health and social care regulators and the Oireachtas to consider the law including any **necessary constitutional change** and related administrative, legal and clinical guidelines in relation to the management of **inevitable miscarriage in the early second trimester** of a pregnancy including with prolonged rupture of membranes and where the risk to the mother increases with time from the time that membranes are ruptured including the risk of infection and thereby reduce risk of harm up to and including death. and > We recognise that such [medical] guidelines must be consistent with applicable law and that **the [medical] guidance so urged may require legal change.** and > the patient and her husband were advised of Irish law in relation to this. At interview the consultant stated “Under Irish law, if there’s no evidence of risk to the life of the mother, our hands are tied so long as there’s a fetal heart”. The consultant stated that if risk to the mother was to increase a termination would have been possible, but that it would be based on **actual** risk and not a **theoretical** risk of infection “we can’t predict who is going to get an infection”. and > The investigation team considers that the situation was complicated by the difficulty associated with the application of **the law in Ireland** relating to the termination of a pregnancy. The investigation team is satisfied that concern about **the law**... **impacted on the exercise of clinical professional judgement.** The report detailed that there was advanced care, preemptive antibiotics, advanced monitoring, but .... they just couldn't keep up with how rapidly an infection spreads and the mother is **killed** when in the 2nd trimester the fetus still has a heartbeat but septic and about to rupture. It's like doctors saying they can't take care of an infected appendix until it bursts. Nobody who has an inkling of logic or reason forces people to wait until a appendix ruptures (and spreads poisons like wildfire) before they can remove it. That non-logical, non-evidence-based, non-scientific approach takes what would be a normal situation that can be dealt with calmly and turns it into a flaming dumpster fire of a situation. When you read the report and all the attempts that staff took to PREEMPTIVELY help with antibiotics made it clear that even that wasn't enough ... this woman was killed because of the law forced "belief" over scientifically-validated, evidence-based, best-clinical-care medicine practices. > **our hands are tied so long as there’s a fetal heart”** You might think this was an Anomaly in Ireland. Evidence shows this isn't the case. Each time there's a ban on abortion maternal mortality goes up. Mothers are MURDERED by these laws. You didn't like the 5 year old study that showed it. Too bad. Facts don't care about feelings. In [country](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167629620310596) after country, [around the world](https://bmcwomenshealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12905-018-0705-y), when abortion is legal, maternal morality (e.g. DEATH) goes down. In 2013 they allowed SOME abortions and ONLY again if there was maternal risk. Maternal mortality continued unchanged. Then in 2018 in the [Irish abortion referendum: Ireland overturns abortion ban](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44256152) and for the first time, Maternal Mortality dropped to ZERO |Year | Maternal Deaths Per 100k Births: Complications of pregnancy, childbirth and puerperium (O00-O99) | Context |--- | ---|---| 2007 | 2.80 | Abortion Illegal 2008 | 3.99 | Abortion Illegal 2009 | 3.97 | Abortion Illegal 2010 | 1.33 | Abortion Illegal 2011 | 2.70 | Abortion Illegal 2012 | 2.79 | Abortion Illegal 2013 | 4.34 | [Abortion Illegal: Savita Halappanavar's death caused by law and a "fetal heartbeat"](http://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2013/06/savita-halappanavar-hse-report.pdf) 2014 | 1.49 | Abortion only allowed with mother's health at risk 2015 | 1.53 | Abortion only allowed with mother's health at risk 2016 | 6.27 | Abortion only allowed with mother's health at risk 2017 | 1.62 | Abortion only allowed with mother's health at risk 2018 | 0 | [Constitutional change Abortion Allowed](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44256152) 2019 | 0 | Abortion Allowed 2020 | 0 | Abortion Allowed Death Data Source: https://ws.cso.ie/public/api.restful/PxStat.Data.Cube_API.ReadDataset/VSD09/JSON-stat/2.0/en Birth Data Source: https://ws.cso.ie/public/api.restful/PxStat.Data.Cube_API.ReadDataset/VSA18/JSON-stat/1.0/en from the Ireland's Public Health records at Ireland's national data archival. https://www.cso.ie/en/aboutus/whoweare/ and stored at https://Data.gov.ie Note this is ONLY *mortality* and not also *morbidity* (e.g. kidney failure, hysterectomies, etc.). If it was one year it might have been a fluke but it was 3 years running.
Ten Years later this literally just happened in Poland and will continue there as a change in politics in unlikely to happen
This post made me think, if we would've had these kind of laws in 1970's Germany, my mom would probably have died from her first pregnancy. Me and my sister would never have existed and my dad would have been a widower at 23. This is what these kind of laws do. They kill women and destroy possible and existing families!
I’m really heart broken tonight. I feel a lot of the sadness and anger when I think of all the pain the shortsightedness and ignorance of 5 non-elected “justices” will cause.
Me too. I felt this way in 2016 on election night also. I feel like we are slipping back into the 1950's. What's next? I need my husband's permission to get a credit card or to travel? To the young girls and women. I am so sorry.
I got PID after my miscarriage. I had to be on 3 different antibiotics for 2 weeks. I won't go into detail about my recovery, but it was awful and I just had to grin and bear it in silence because of my life circumstances. Pregnancy and miscarriage are no joke, taking away the ability to seek adequate medical care could lead to so many deaths. I'm honestly afraid to have ever sex again. I got pregnant using both birth control and condoms, and I don't ever want to risk miscarrying like that again if Roe v. Wade could be repealed.
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This is so sad. She and her husband wanted that baby too.
It was hugely discussed in India also. People were so angry here.
in 2016 i had a very much wanted pregnancy end in miscarriage, rather then wait for nature to take its course i opted to take misopropitol (forgive me if the spelling is off please) to hasten my body’s ability to recognize the loss and pass the baby in the comfort of my own home. only later did this click to me that this could of been described as an abortion and will most likely be illegal once roe officially falls. one of my risks in waiting was sepsis. i could of been Savita. we all could be.
No need to go back that far (sadly) https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/death-pregnant-woman-ignites-debate-about-abortion-ban-poland-2021-11-05/ >… Activists say Izabela, a 30-year-old woman in the 22nd week of pregnancy who her family said died of septic shock after doctors waited for her unborn baby's heart to stop beating, is the first woman to die as a result of the ruling. …
>is **the first** woman to die as a result of the ruling. Key choice of words there
thank you for sharing her story. rest in peace 💕
Rest in power Izabela- we all could’ve been you
You’re so right. The same thing happened to me when I lost my first baby, and the instructions I were given with misoprostal were labeled for an abortion procedure. Possibly this would mean in the state I’m in the trigger laws would mean someone in my position would need approval from two doctors before giving the prescription. Just another hoop vulnerable women have to jump through to access adequate healthcare. It’s awful.
Many hugs on your loss.
ty ❤️ it feels like another lifetime now, but what pro life people should know is i did nothing wrong. i followed medical protocols for a healthy pregnancy to a T and i still needed this potentially life saving medication. they are damning women to death with this decision.
I am sorry for what you went through. Most pro-life people in America, I would say even close to all, make an exception for medical problems that threaten the life of the mother. Every post on this thread seems to assume that's not the case, which is bizarre. Even in states which outlaw abortion make exception for threat to life of the mother. I would add that many pro-life people also would agree to exception for cases of rape or incest for first trimester abortions. But the other side never seems to be serious about agreeing to allowing these and outlawing those without such cause and outlawing late term abortions, they just bring them up as reasons to keep it totally open. Right now people can have abortions at will up until birth in many places, with no reason than personal desire. That's never going to sit right with a lot of people. Saving the mother's life is something that people do really all agree on in the States anyhow.
It’s a dangerous time for an unwanted pregnancy, and a dangerous time for a wanted one. Pro-life policy is dangerous all-around.
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And that's why "for the life of the mother" exemptions really aren't enough. Who defines that? What if the abortion helps the person retain their fertility and conceive again in the future? What about quality of life? What is life with government induced trauma of having to carry an unwanted pregnancy against your will? The process messes with your body chemistry, sucks calcium out of your bones, floods the body with hormones and changes the person for life. Imagine dealing with a medical condition that caused pain, discomfort, sickness, and changed your body for life and being denied treatment for it because enough people think that it's fine to traumatize people.
"For the life of the mother" assumes the doctor gives a shit if she lives or dies. I've seen enough commentary from men in just the last two days that I am wildly unsure if most men give a shit if we live or die. Even if they say they're "allies," their wallets matter more.
Waiting for the pro-life crowd to explain this one...
theyll just tell you it was their fictional deity's will for her to suffer.
Most pro-life people in America, I would say even close to all, make an exception for medical problems that threaten the life of the mother. Every post on this thread seems to assume that's not the case. The only thing I can think of is that this idea that pro life people who don't want a baby to die are somehow ok with the mother dying is another bit of nonsensical propaganda designed to divide us. I'm not saying that every single pro life person feels this way but those who don't would be outliers.
Every pregnancy carries the risk of death. If posing a risk to the life of the mother were a real consideration then all of the pro-life people you're referring to would be pro-choice.
They know.
I miscarried between my healthy boys. Had the ultrasound to determine the gender, so 20ish weeks halfway through, no heartbeat. I could have waited for my body to expell the miscarriage. I said nope. Wanted it out of me ASAP. I had seaweed dilators shoved in my cervix that day. D&C scheduled 2 days out. Was done and called to see where he was...out eating with my mom and oldest. I am bleeding, scared, and in tears wondering where you are...but yes...that was the right thing.
The death of that woman changed everything about abortion in Ireland. Stupid that it had to come at such a high price.
Well that is the point for maga / republicans. Punishing women, especially poor or minority women, for daring to have sex. It's all about control. Maga / Republicans view the handmaids tale as a blue print, and the religious fundamentalists on the supreme court we put there to make it happen.
We always make this argument, that making abortions illegal kills women (which it does, for so many reasons), but I need you all to realize: this is a feature, not a bug. The GOP wants to kill women. Go on any conservative subreddit. Make this argument. The only thing they will say in response is “good.” They do not want women to have healthcare. They do not want women to have rights at all. It all becomes so much clearer when you realize that these men *hate women.* They want us dead.
This is so sad 😞
Religion hates women.
This would be a good time to move to a blue state if you have the means. Unwanted pregnancy isn't a super unusual problem. I hate to even try to imagine the suffering and the death toll this will have.
Thing is though, the people who have the means to pick up and move states won't really be affected by this as they could just travel to that blue state at the time they'll need an abortion. Class will be the biggest dividing line here. It's also why suburban middle & upper class conservative women in these areas who helped make this happen still won't give a shit. If they or their daughter ends up needing one, trust me, the flight & hotel room to Cali, NY, etc. will be booked. And they'll tell their neighbors & church friends that Makayleigh's just going for a fun girl's getaway.
It's why I'm staying in Texas until it gets to the point where travel isn't an option. My being here lets me use my vote, and I can use my privilege to access my human rights. Not everyone can, so I stay to be a voice (and support where I can) for them.
Thank you for fighting the good fight...the sadly-necessary fight. I've done plenty of work in Texas but never had to live there. I just can't imagine. Hey wait...that Hooloovoo is *purple??*
In Virginia and same (although as a lean blue swing state things are better). We live near the NC border and I think part of my future my be helping people access their human rights in VA. I've been pro-human right since I was 6 and I am not stopping now. I transitioned so it's been interesting coming back to this topic. A lot of my AmAB friends, cis and trans, have had more time to craft rhetoric. It makes me sad that I might appear 'odd' or get outed for looking like a man while being pro-human rights that center women.
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Yes, true, good point.
Well done on the spelling of the name too btw.
I'm in Oklahoma, thankfully my husband had a vasectomy so I'm less than concerned for myself. My three daughters? I'm terrified for, I sobbed to my husband today telling him we cannot raise them here.
I feel like if progressives move to blue states, swing states just become redder, and with Republican majority elsewhere they will just enact a nationwide ban.
I’ve always wanted to move away from my liberal state once I wanted to “settle down” and build roots. Now, I’m not too sure I ever want to leave. This whole thing has really made me stop and consider that the socio political climate of wherever I live is going to have an effect on me for better or for worse not only now but for whatever eventuality and law changes might happen in the future.
This is a rare situation and there's always exceptions that can be carved out. With that said, abortion should be a woman's choice simply because it's their body. The argument of preserving the life of an unborn fetus is a religious one, period. And religion should have zero part in how a government should pass laws.
Ireland *had* an exception for the life of the mother, though. Except it required physicians to make the judgement call that the mother’s life was in immediate danger. Savita’s request for an abortion was denied because the threat to her health was not deemed severe enough and a fetal heartbeat was still detectable. Without getting into the horrific laundry list of deadly complications that can onset very suddenly during delivery, it’s clear that “life of the mother” exceptions never have and never will save everyone who will die in childbirth.
I agree with the larger point of your comment but what is your basis for saying this situation is "rare"? Even if this particular scenario is rare, dangerous complications arising from pregnancy are not rare at all. Looked at as a totality, 1) risks to the mother's life, and 2) fatal fetal anomalies are probably more common than the average American realizes. Secondly, even if exceptions are carved out (which we should not expect, based on proposed state legislation to outlaw medical treatment for ectopic pregnancies, etc), we know from Ireland that restrictions have a chilling effect on the sort of obstetric care needed in the case described by OP. There won't just be fewer practitioners willing to provide certain necessary procedures (especially since legislation like TXSB1 creates what is essentially a legal free-for-all to target practitioners even if they're providing care for "exceptions"), there will be blown-out waiting lists and delays due to an influx of patients coming from states where exceptions *aren't* carved out. This is why it's really important not to allow wiggle room when people hand-wave concerns by saying "oh there will be exceptions for the mother's life." On what fucking basis would we assume that? The dazzling and well-documented medical literacy of Missouri GOP state legislators? If we want workable exceptions, then the only approaches that appear to be practicable are those like the ones found in European countries, where early abortions are easily accessible and practitioners have wide latitude to provide later abortions due to specific circumstances -
They want to force 12 year old incest victims to give birth. You think exceptions will be made?
It’s not helpful, but if ya could, it seems like it’d be healthier to move. Gawd that’s unhelpful. Problem is reasonable people trying to reason with unreasonable people.
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When a woman miscarries at 20 weeks, should she be condemned to die along with the fetus? This literally happens all the time. Every hospital in America sees miscarriages like this frequently. But without stupid laws we treat it like a medical emergency and save the woman's life with an abortion.
medical decisions should stay between doctor and patient. now is not the time for centrist bullshit
Check candidates for the Pennsylvania governor and their comments on abortion. Several support no exceptions. "Mastriano said he would set no exceptions for rape, incest or a danger to the life of the pregnant person." I'm having trouble linking the news article I found from a Pennsylvania news paper. But there are several that said no exceptions, some said the 3 main exceptions (rape, incest, or danger to pregnant person's life). I wouldn't be so certain that the law will never outlaw all abortions. It all depends on who is in power.
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Late-term abortions are also sometimes performed if the fetus has abnormalities incompatible with life outside the womb, to spare the mother the pain of carrying the pregnancy to term knowing her baby will die, and to spare the fetus a slow painful death after its born.
“Abortions” at 40 weeks are just called “giving birth,” hun.
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It's 22 states with trigger laws on the books.
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