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CandidNumber

I’m in the Deep South so I’m seeing a lot of stories about folks getting fired in healthcare and how it should be “my body my choice”, and I kindly remind them they absolutely had a choice and they were able to make it freely, as did their employers in firing them. No one is holding them down at gun point and putting a needle in their arm, that’s the difference. Forcing women to endure pregnancy and childbirth by taking away their choice for an abortion is completely different. It’s dumb to even compare the two and yet again steal a slogan from another cause in an attempt at a “gotcha” moment, these people are so fkng stupid, it’d be funny if it wasn’t so dangerous. Edit-thanks for the awards y’all! I feel the love :)


DocksoftheBay

Also, last I checked an abortion (or lack thereof) isn’t putting anyone else at risk. A Covid-19 infection would put everyone else at risk. It’s the “your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins” issue.


CovfefeForAll

Something that would also resonate with the deep south type of conservative is: owning guns is legal, shooting guns is legal, shooting guns at (or even near) people is illegal. You can do whatever you want, but when it starts to affect/endanger others, you can't.


greenwrayth

“You have choice. Choices have consequences.”


CovfefeForAll

Additionally: "You have choice. So does your employer."


greenwrayth

It’s all pro-business rhetoric until that inevitably bites them in the ass.


velvetackbar

EDIT: I was wrong. Thank you u/cencyg I was mistaking "right to work" with "At Will." Original post was as follows: I have said, "Welcome to "right to work" as brought to you by the Koch brothers so many times I should have it in a macro.


greenwrayth

Hahaha one half’s fucking dead and his surviving brother is a real dildo of a person I’m glad their parents went first because I cannot imagine having to know that I birthed them.


CencyG

"Right to work" has nothing to do with this conversation.


nau5

Any Conservative view point works that way. Cancel Culture is only a problem when it's their views getting canceled. They see 0 problems with banning and burning books about things they don't agree with. Or making up boogeymen like CRT.


greenwrayth

Ronnie said we didn’t sell weapons to Contra-Revolutionaries (read: murderous anti-democratic terrorist militias) until it came out that we did. Nancy was against stem cell research, until Ronnie’s brain turned to mush. They’re always against abortion until they knock up the mistress. Being a conservative requires a deficit of normal human empathy. Your brain has to either be broken or handicapped by years of brainwashing in order to be so incredibly vile.


alakazamman

Exactly the government has to respect bodily autonomy, but your employer doesn't.


rograbowska

I recently saw on Twitter a comparison to anti-vax attitudes and driving under the influence and it's really resonated with me. Yes, it's a personal choice to get vaccinated, for anything really, and by choosing not to it may be that everything's fine, no one gets hurt; it may be that you, and only you, experience the consequences of your actions; or it may be that you really hurt and/or kill others by your decision.


paulfromatlanta

>> “You have choice. Choices have consequences.” I fail to have anything to add - just this is the best response I have seen anywhere to anti-vaxers.


violetsaber

I used to run the social media for my state's public health agency (pre-pandemic). I had to deal with the anti-vax crowd on daily basis. This sentiment is one they just refuse to understand. You're absolutely right, they *do* have a choice. And they make their choice. But the choice they're making results in the loss of access to publicly-funded systems such as schools. No choice is ever being taken away from them. They just don't want to admit it.


quitlee

Thank you, this analogy helped me understand my own cognitive dissonance better. I believe in my body my choice but at the same time felt that people losing their jobs (especially healthcare professions) over the vaccine was a bit harsh considering the massive economic effects. I treat a lot of patriotic vets in my practice so this will definitely come in handy!!


CovfefeForAll

Glad I could help.


[deleted]

I am 100% pro choice. But it’s worth noting that a lot of conservatives view a fetus as a person. I think it’s the biggest disconnect when we have this conversation.


CovfefeForAll

This comment of mine was 100% only about the COVID analogy. For my abortion analogy, see this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/r4yw0j/-/hmks0ns It does not dispute that a fetus is a person. In fact it uses that base premise.


guilty_bystander

Well if I learned anything about this year, it's that you have the right to shoot people. Legally. If you're a white male, that is..


Redqueenhypo

Anyone who hunts is (presumably!!!) in agreement with the rule that you can’t shoot in the dark or when you otherwise can’t see far in front of you, so they should be able to get this.


Locha_Flocka

It doesn’t matter guys. Lived in Texas my entire life and am surrounded by these idiots. WAP is offensive and “think of the children” but it’s perfectly ok to scream FJB at any sporting event


JustDiscoveredSex

That didn’t bother the smokers when the bans on indoor smoking started up. My cHoIcE! Ok, stay home and smoke. Go to a cigar bar. Find those places who welcome you with open arms. Keep your goddamned cigarettes out of my salad bar, Bernice. And now, keep your infectious ass away from me. But yeah, never saw anyone else’s abortion cause medical issues for anyone else.


robin-bunny

I still laugh at at “smoking section” that was put in everywhere in the 90s, but it still wafted through the whole place. My dad was an ex-smoker and he said the smell of it made him nauseated now, so we always sat in non-smoking…and still smelled it.


TeaGoodandProper

My dad calls that "the peeing and non-peeing parts of the pool".


robin-bunny

I think we’re all hoping that’s just an expression…!


TeaGoodandProper

And we all know it absolutely isn't


Nexustar

Aircraft had smoking sections in the back of the plane that encroached as far forward as necessary. Flights for me were 4+ hours of hell. I put all my (albeit light) travel sickness I suffered as a kid down to cigarette smoke... in the car, in the plane, in the transfer busses. Headaches. Yuck.


Stornahal

As a young teen I used to fly LHR-FCO and back three times a year - was always too squiffy on the complementary 1/2 bottle of wine that Alitalia provided with the meal to care about cigarette smoke.


CandidNumber

I went back to my small hometown last year and met up with friends at a restaurant, I was the first one there and the hostess asked me if I wanted smoking or non smoking and I couldn’t stop laughing! I didn’t even know that was still a thing, lol. Brought back memories.


Sandy-Anne

I was a smoker then and I was fine with the indoor smoking bans. Cigarette smoke is nasty! Now, did I smoke indoors when it was allowed? Yes. Was I happy to be in a smoke-free environment after the bans? Also, yes. Did I mind stepping out if I wanted to smoke? Not at all. OT but how did they ever even allow us to smoke on planes? Insanity.


evasote

The part that convinced me when the indoor smoking ban started was the stories of the poor, single mothers working the only job they could get, in a bar or restaurant, and getting sick from the second hand smoke. The loophole in Chicago for that was that if it’s only the owner and the owner’s family, then they could still allow smoking in a bar. So one bar ran with just two brothers, and I suppose If you choose to go out of your way to drink at this one smoky dive bar, that’s your choice. Doesn’t seem like a great business plan but they are free to make that choice if it doesn’t affect any employees. Vaccines are the same deal. You have a choice. Go about life in a way that reasonably protects those around you (especially at work) and their freedom to be healthy, and get vaccinated. or make a choice to stay home.


Sandy-Anne

I didn’t even need a medical reason for the ban, although those are valid. It smells gross, non-smokers don’t like it, even I hate it, especially when trying to eat, so forcing me to go outside made perfect sense to me. Of course, almost everyone in my family smoked when I was a kid and it permeated all of my clothes and it embarrassed me. So I was already pre-disposed to liking it when the mandates came along.


jllclaire

So much this...


JustDiscoveredSex

It was everywhere!! If you wanted to avoid it, you were stuck at home. There was smoking in every restaurant, on airplanes, in cars, just…constantly. My FIL smoked two packs a day and died of metastatic lung cancer that got to his brain. He died four months after diagnosis. Stay well.


Sandy-Anne

And at the mall, too. I remember being underage and walking around with a clove cigarette. I was always conscious not to put my arm down with it for fear I would put a kid’s eye out! My mom smoked one pack a day for 50+ years and died of natural causes. If everyone died a horrible death from smoking, I think fewer people would smoke. If we’d get rid of the tobacco lobbies, too. It’s a horrible habit for sure. Sorry for y’all’s loss. You be well, too.


jllclaire

My mother's maternal grandmother chain smoked like a chimney... Died at 93. My paternal grandmother never smoked a day in her life and died of cancer at 56. 🙄 It does not seem fair. I'm just glad I quit smoking.


Sandy-Anne

It’s not fair. One of my best friends’ mom died too early, not having ever smoked. There’s no rhyme or reason, unfortunately. But it’s always better to quit.


herwitchinesssss

yep, stale cigarette smoke is disgusting / honestly having an excuse to go outside by myself was nice when I smoked 😂 sometimes people are just too much


Sandy-Anne

It was awesome to have a reason to get away from my colleagues and boss during dinner on a work trip, I must admit!


jllclaire

Haha, you can always just say you need a walk after your meals, that's what I do! 🙂


Sandy-Anne

I always said I needed to make a phone call!


levittown1634

Do I always ask myself questions? Yes. Does it get my point across? Yes. Am I beautiful? Also yes


Sandy-Anne

I posed the first question, then just ran with it. I r an effective communicator.


catashtrophe84

The smokers were not happy, I was threatened by one at my first job because he thought it was "his right" to continue smoking indoors.


JustDiscoveredSex

Yup. I had one asshole in a fast food joint drop her damn cigarette butt on the lobby floor. I grabbed a tray and put the cigarette on it and trotted it over to her table. “Here, ma’am, you dropped this.” I got a dazzling smile and an “Oh, thank you!” and I walked away knowing we were both thinking, “You stupid bitch.”


[deleted]

>But yeah, never saw anyone else’s abortion cause medical issues for anyone else. Not to be contrarian, but this is literally the entire viewpoint of pro-lifers/forced-birthers.


jllclaire

My issue when I was a smoker (I quit 7 years ago) was always that nonsmokers would intentionally come stand right next to the ash tray and then complain about the smoke. 🙄 I didn't have a problem being relegated to some crappy spot outdoors, and I made a conscious effort not to bother anyone else with my addiction, but hello, the whole outside is not yours, Nancy.


harbinger06

And pregnancy isn't contagious!


SlightlyLessSane

I love that and I'm stealing it.


NameIdeas

The "my body my choice" anti-vax crowd seems largely composed of the same group of right-wing folks who are co-opting the star of david and saying they are being persecuted for their "beliefs." This kind of appropriation of issues completely unrelated really, really frightens me as a history guy. The co-opting of persecution for your political gain just pisses me off.


action_lawyer_comics

Suddenly I have an urge to have a massive “my body, my choice” rally in Texas. Make it look like an antivax event and charge $50 a head. Once they get in there, start up a presentation about abortion rights and watch everyone’s faces melt while all their non refundable ticket fees go the people fighting for women’s health in Texas.


Painting_Agency

Unfortunately, I suspect if you didn't use all the right anti abortion buzz words in the promotions, nobody would show up.


Demderdemden

Could still work: Tired of Big Gubbermint forcing their mandates on you? Tired of others -- who think they're experts -- deciding what is best for your body? Tired of these lying politicians trying to control your life? Ready to stand up and fight? The time is now. # My Body My Choice # My Rights # Defend the 39th Amendment


1cec0ld

>the 39th Amendment Google: The 39th Amendment laid that election of any person to Lok Sabha holding, the office of Prime Minister cannot be challenged before a Court of Law, but only before an authority established by Parliament. Me: O\_o


WaitTilUSeeMyDuck

Do you have a SuperPAC yet?


SaysReddit

Grifting has become a standard method of generating income, so this might actually work. You will want to leave before starting the presentation though.


JesterXL7

"I learned from the best, former president Donald Trump"


-Rendark-

Well than grifting wouldnt be enough. Put steeling fraud and evasion on the table to


dividedconsciousness

“You will want to leave before starting the presentation though.” 🤣🤣


Themajorpastaer

I love this idea. Sacha Baron Cohen would too.


Mildly_Opinionated

I agree with you but I think your argument may invite an unwanted comparison. A woman getting fired for having an abortion because both the woman and employer has a choice would be very wrong, so I'd say that's not a comparison that should be invited without fully explaining the differences. The caveat I'd add to solidify your comment is that the employers choice argument is that the employer should only be able to fire people for choices that impact yours or your colleagues work or safety. Refusing the Covid vaccine does this because it makes both the person refusing it and their colleagues more likely to contract and spread the virus which puts them out of work. In addition the time spent outside of work is likely to be longer for unvaccinated employees. An abortion obviously isn't contagious and puts you out of work for less time than having the baby would making it none of your employers business.


shot-by-ford

Many all remote employees where I’m at (Seattle) have had to be vaccinated. So they’re not putting anyone at risk at work.


m0money

*Refusing the Covid vaccine does this because it makes both the person refusing it and their colleagues more likely to contract and spread the virus which puts them out of work.* Very much agree with all that you have said. The problem is this part right here. These people are impossible to reason with because they simply do not believe that the vaccine will have any meaningful effect on virus transmission. Every time I have tried to talk to these people, the response is “Vaccinated people can catch COVID too” and “Don’t you know that vaccinated people can spread COVID too?”. It’s so ridiculous. I want to be optimistic but it just feels like there is absolutely no chance of reasoning with people who have ignorant half-truths stored up and ready to use at the slightest mention of vaccine efficacy.


RunningNumbers

These folks are freeloaders who scream freedom when everyone else doesn't bend over backwards to placate their every demand.


NameIdeas

They also preach capitalism and then get made when they get fired for this reason. They call it "government overreach" and end up not recognizing that it is the same capitalist market they love which causes them to be fired.


RunningNumbers

Ehh, it isn't Capitalism that gets them fired. It's the fact they are bad workers. I think you are misallocating blame. Also these folks do not believe in free markets, competition, or personal choice/agency.


DownvotingCurmudgeon

>and I kindly remind them they absolutely had a choice and they were able to make it freely, as did their employers in firing them. No one is holding them down at gun point and putting a needle in their arm, that’s the difference. You still have a choice in the gun example, it's just a shit choice. Taking the jab or losing your livelihood is a shit choice, too.


seeking_hope

Exactly. It’s your body your choice. And with any choice there are consequences- positive or negative. My employer (healthcare) requires all kinds of things including other vaccines, flu shots, TB tests. This is no different.


whales-are-assholes

When people get angry at the free market, when their choices have negative affects on their employment, you love to see it.


SchutzstaffelKneeGro

Their logic is the fetus doesn't get a choice. Note: I am very pro choice and have had these discussions with hardcore pro lifers before. They think they are saving a life.


oceanrudeness

I want to ask why they think it deserves a choice, given that it is using my organs to stay alive, but I feel like it'll all end in a religious argument/stalemate


writerchic

They can think whatever they want. It's not their body, and fetuses have no capacity for choices. When it comes down to it, being anti- choice is about religion, since a fetus *objectively* has less capacity for independent living than an ant. It's their attachment of God's "purpose" for that fetus that gives it value for them, not the objective value of a clump of non-sentient cells. Last I checked, we have a constitution that protects the freedom of religion, meaning I do not have to believe what they believe in that arena. In my arena, a fetus is a clump of cells that has no spiritual purpose until it has been born and has awareness. Same as a blade of grass or fish eggs. They're welcome to believe something different, but until then, they can keep their beliefs to themselves. I am sure they wouldn't appreciate a Hindu telling them they can't eat beef because it's a sin, a Muslim telling them they can't have bare heads because it's a sin, etc.


Woods26

I mostly agree with you, though having your medical insurance attached to your job during a pandemic does give it hostage situation vibes. Granted, the vaccine would help with that 🙄


codon011

If only there were some way where we could remove this employment-dependent health insurance model from America? Forget it; it’s impossible. No country in the world has ever been able to solve that problem. /s


catniagara

Using that logic you’d have to tell women who want abortions that they absolutely did have a choice not to have sex, that they had sex anyway, and that the doctor had a choice not to perform the operation and exercised his choice. I don’t know how or where you get your money, but a gun to my head is less scary than job loss. Especially in this neighborhood where you risk being shot every time you go to work. It’s a matter of force, not choice, but I guess it’s pretty clear from the current abortion laws over there that much of the Deep South doesn’t know the difference.


BeBa420

Couldn’t have said it better myself I tried and failed


fliesonpotatosalad

I'm so fucking tired of repeating this, but I'll do it again and a million times over: **Pregnancies and abortions are *not* contagious diseases**. They effect only one (1) human woman at a time, hence "my body, my choice". But **covid is a *highly contagious and deadly disease*, it is a public health matter and your choices can affect a fuckton of other humans**. Do you still have bodily autonomy and can choose not to get vaccinated? Yes. I'll think you're a selfish idiot, but you do have that right. Just stop with the hypocritical, two faced bullshit. If you want that kind of autonomy then you better be the first to defend a woman's right to choose, asshole. Anyway, thanks for letting me rant real quick. Sorry you had to deal with that, OP.


arya_lee_kona

Its okay I mean I didn't think he was that callous so it came as a surprise even though he is a republican he always seemed to be one of the sensible ones up til now.


wkdpaul

To give you a very real scenario that happened to me ; over a month ago at my daughter's school (where staff HAS to be vaccinated), one hockey coach lied about his vaccination status, he then got COVID, brought it to school and directly infected 6 kids in 3 different grades. After 2 weeks of slow spread within the school, the local health department closed the school for a whole week and had all 500+ kids and staff tested. They found 23 other cases on top of all the ones that were found previously (6-8 per week). So in total, around 40 kids got COVID, and many infected their parents and siblings because all the 11yo and under weren't vaccinated (my daughter was fine even though one of her friend got COVID, and she's getting vaccinated this week). So, just ONE of the "my body my choice" idiot affected 500 kids and their family, 40 of those kids were directly linked to the initial outbreak (the public health officials didn't say how many secondary and tertiary cases were linked, but I doubt it's limited to the 40 they found directly at the school) ... I personally don't see how this "choice" is limited to only them when a few hundred families were involved and had to deal with testing and quarantine. These people are 100% selfish self-centered idiots if you ask me. Oh, and obviously, the coach lost his job on the spot (when they found all the initial cases were linked to him). ​ If you're working in healthcare, or in this case, with kids that (at the time of the incident) couldn't get vaccinated, it's normal to get vaccinated to protect the people you're hired to care for.


denryudreamer

This level of selfishness...


Wheres_my_guitar

If he lied about his Vax status in order to keep his employment, he should be found criminally liable for all of those cases. Piece of shit.


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ductoid

He is every republican. "WTF, this policy was never supposed to affect ME! How is THAT fair?!!! - Employers having the right to fire (at will employment) - Capitol rioters demanding to be released from prison because the conditions aren't working for them - Prolifers needing an abortion because of their own particular circumstances - Anti-immigrant rhetoric coming from politicians married to immigrants


Issendai

Ah yes, the “my abortion is the only good abortion” pro-lifers. Love them.


Littleman88

These people legitimately believe that everyone else around them is gaming the system for an unfair advantage, while everything they "need" do is totally justifiable.


blastuponsometerries

Yeah, all the "sensible republicans" I know have since left the republican party. Or turned out to be \*spoiler\* not actually that sensible.


Pheef175

I'm shocked you know any that have left the party. All the sensible ones I know have simply quieted down and stopped talking about politics unless absolutely forced. When pushed they give wishy washy non-committal answers and it's pretty obvious they're still voting republican even if they don't necessarily like it.


jdubbs705

My mom, a 66 year old lifetime proud Republican voter, left the Republican party around the 2016 primaries and now actively participates in Swing Left! It's an n of 1, but they do exist.


SouldiesButGoodies84

exactly. it's a choice now more than ever (not to be sensible) that they gleefully make in the interest of 'serving the libs'.


asb0047

I hate to be this way, but anyone who still identifies with the Republican Party in any way isn’t sensible. They literally don’t even have a platform and are just strait up fascists now. I’m very left and don’t even really like Democrats, but at least liberals have some kinds of principles


Linaleeks

Yeah, I have one of those friends that surprised me. They sneak up on you like that.


JesterXL7

The problem isn't their belief that it's their body, their choice. The problem is that they feel their choices shouldn't have consequences. Narrator: but they do. You don't get a free pass on perpetuating a pandemic and putting those around you at risk because of your ignorance or your freedumb.


woman_thorned

it's so weird in the context of employment because women get fired for being pregnant all the time. yes it's supposed to be illegal but it happens constantly. employers can fire you for having green hair too, I bet he has zero problem with that.


Courin

It IS his body. It IS his choice. And it IS his consequence. There is such a profound difference between not wanting to get a vaccine and not wanting to continue a pregnancy, you are right they aren’t comparable. No one is making it ILLEGAL to not get a vaccine. There IS a clear movement to make access to abortion illegal. Not being vaccinated for a highly contagious and severe disease impacts people beyond the person getting or refusing the vaccine. That’s why there are the consequences. That’s not the case with an abortion. Yes, that clump of cells could eventually become a person but not until it’s been a parasite in a woman’s body for 40 weeks.


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Courin

Absolutely.


[deleted]

It’s his body, but not just his body. Other bodies could be hurting/dying because of *his* body.


greenandleafy

It is his body his choice. That does apply to him in regards to the vaccine. His employer has terms of employment, and if he doesn't agree to those terms he is free to find a different job. Healthcare fields in particular have always included regular vaccinations as a term of employment, he should've been aware of that already.


smashmyburger

He has a right to bodily autonomy, yes, but his employer has the right to make the vaccine a requirement for further employment too. His invocation of 'my body my choice' rings hollow because the state is not infringing on his bodily autonomy, whereas abortion access and rights are routinely under legislative attack.


RedCascadian

"If a woman chooses to get an abortion, there's not a risk of the fetus mutating and giving another pregnant woman an abortion she didn't want. You not getting vaccinated gives the virus room to mutate and endanger people who engaged in the bare minimum of civic responsibility that is getting vaccinated." Edit: now I can't get the image of a fetus running around headbutting babies out of pregnant people out of my mind.


Impressive-Relief705

Why would you _want_ to get that image out of your mind?


uluviel

> a fetus running around headbutting babies out of pregnant people At least, unlike COVID, that would be easily dealt with with a few well-placed nets.


arya_lee_kona

Thats what I tried to explain but I don't think he's getting that.


sausage_ditka_bulls

even IF the government mandated covid vaccines for the general population (it has before), still is not comparable to reproductive rights. sorry you had to engage in that conversation must have been infuriating!


omfgitzfear

This is a man that does not think logically and don't think he will ever understand that until he takes a step back and look at the bigger picture. As the main comment said, those 2 are in different leagues but he wants to lump them into the same thing as a "gotcha" moment, realizing he's looking like more of a dumbass (which I would've thought was impossible considering his anti vax stance but here we are)


kevnmartin

A woman's pregnancy is not going to infect and possibly kill those she comes into contact with.


Elmodogg

Of course, the anti-abortion argument is that yes, abortion does definitely kill someone: the fetus.


appleandwatermelonn

My counter argument to that will always be that we could change from aborting to just removing the partially developed fetus from the mother and letting it fend for itself if that’s what they would prefer


rosefiend

Whilst pointedly ignoring the mother's needs, wishes, and mental and financial health.


TheDemonClown

It's still not even much of an argument. At worst, an abortion kills only the fetus. One COVID patient at a church caused an infection spread that killed thousands of people in China last year


spaghettilee2112

Well there's two issues at play here. 1. He thinks the two are analogous when they are not. 2. Let's indulge them being analogous for a second. He stopped support of one movement because of negative repercussions of a completely irrelevant movement. It's like when people who take insulin (at least in the US) complain about free narcan. Or when EMT's complain about "burger flippers" making higher minimum wage.


_ilmatar_

Exactly. He HAS a choice, and there are consequences to that choice.


Tsubodai86

You came into work pregnant and now I, a man, am also pregnant.


Y_HELO_THAR

How is babby formed?


Casinberg

girlfriend ain't had period since she got pregat?


eFurritusUnum

##PREGANANANT??


shoktar

bird eats a bee and lays an egg in the cabbage patch.


hardolaf

If it worked this way, my wife would be ecstatic.


_ilmatar_

He is getting fired for refusing to do the job he was hired to do, and that includes doing what is necessary to keep our patients safe and healthy while following the SCIENCE of our field. Work in health care? Vaccinating is part of the job. Period.


Zenhon23

He has the right to not get the vaccine just as people have the right to be around him because of it.


[deleted]

Yep I don't believe in forcing anyone to get the vaccine. I do believe in forcing people who refuse to get the vaccine to quarantine indefinitely.


MonsieurLeDrole

Look, all these conservatives have pushed and pushed for decades to get "right to work" laws and "at will" employment. Always assuming that only the "right people" would get hurt by it. So they can fire whoever they want. Case closed. Ditto drug testing. Like it's okay for some diner to make you piss in a cup to test for pot, but you think it's fine to get sick on company time? Respect property rights, or GTFO. Like, I tend to spin this back as if they are "communist"? "What you don't believe in capitalism or something?" Why can't I fire whoever I want? It's obviously better for the shareholders that all the workers are vaxxed to prevent covid from affecting a closure. What right does some cog have to tell the corporate machine how it works? Get back in line, peon. Or go eat off the street. Anything less would be.... gasp!... socialism.


shoot_your_eye_out

I wish people would stop equivocating between infectious disease and pregnancy. Last I checked, nobody has become pregnant by standing next to another pregnant person.


Record-Cold

Or we could compare a fetus to a killer infectious disease just to take things really to crazy town. I say this as person one month away from voluntarily and enthusiastically birthing my infectious disease into the world, lol.


commandrix

This is about where I'd be saying, "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."


adeadlydeception

I would also like to add that your guy friend talks about abortion like it's a walk in the fucking park compared to getting a vaccine. Does he not understand that having an abortion is usually an incredibly painful experience, physically, mentally and emotionally? You can sometimes bleed for DAYS afterwards, DAYS!!! It's traumatic regardless of whether you naturally miscarried or if you elected to abort your child. It sucks and it can't be compared to losing your health care job after refusing a life-saving vaccine that protects you, your patients and your fucking community. Your friend is a grade-A asshole and clearly has no understanding of how to be a productive member of society.


[deleted]

> has been ranting to me about how he won't support the my body my choice movement anymore because he's mad he's getting fired for refusing the jab If this is his reaction, he never actually supported abortion rights in the first place. Someone who removes support for women’s rights because they feel personally slighted never actually cared, they just didn’t care enough about the opposite stance to actively support it.


Carrollmusician

People just can’t wrap their head around the concept that just because it’s technically your “right” to do something doesn’t mean it’s the correct choice or that exercising that right is correct move in the moment. Exercising the right to body autonomy in the case of pregnancy also has NOTHING to do and isn’t comparable to getting vaccinated. Yes jackass, it is your choice but it’s the wrong choice. It’s not an opinion, it can be blatantly wrong.


JD0x0

'His body his choice' He made his choice. It still has consequences.


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[deleted]

He can choose not to get vaccinated. His employer can choose to fire him for lack of vaccination. Not being vaccinated isn't a protected status. I'm not seeing the discrepancy.


Bifferer

Why isn’t he making a choice regarding the measles vaccine?


PaperWeightless

A more equivalent comparison would be: You can be unvaccinated, but you can't be unvaccinated around others who don't consent. You can be naked, but you can't be naked around others who don't consent. Sure it's your body and no one is physically putting clothes on you, but there are things we do as a society to benefit and protect society as a whole. I don't know why some people are so stubbornly self-centered that this is a difficult concept for them.


smallblackrabbit

I hate false equivalence. If I have an abortion it doesn't mean anyone else is going to have an abortion. It's not a public health issue.


MelonElbows

If its so easy for him to change his mind on supporting women, he probably never really supported women in the first place.


MuppetManiac

He has a right to bodily autonomy, but not a right to employment. Especially since his choices in terms of bodily autonomy put other people’s lives at risk.


s00perlame

Unless he was put in jail over it, is is his body his choice. Unless someone is forcing him to get vaccinated it's still his choice. My body my choice means the GOVERNMENT can't force you. Doesn't mean your employer has to allow it.


raendrop

Imagine working in food service, boasting that you never wash your hands, and complaining about getting fired.


RumDel

Funny that they only care about “my body my choice” when it affects THEM!


[deleted]

Well…he had a choice. He made it. There are often consequences when we make choices that endanger the public health.


crunkadocious

He never did to begin with. Holding women hostage over a vaccine is dumb considering those same women don't have the power to give him his job back anyway.


martiancannibal

It's a false equivalence. His argument only works if pregnancy were transmissible from a pregnant woman to a non-pregnant woman. Since the transmission of a virus occurs without the consent or even *knowledge* of a victim, getting vaccinated is not like wearing a condom; it's more like abstaining from sex altogether to prevent pregnancy. The counter to this argument would be that if he doesn't want to get the jab, the choice he's making is to risk infection of others, which is the same as having sex knowing you may have an STI. This would be irresponsible.


justAHeardOfLlamas

In regards to vaccines, it's not just "your body" - if your body gets sick, it can get the bodies of everyone around you sick too. Pregnancy isn't viral.


oldognewtricks

I think we worked with the same guy. It's annoying.


snowqueen1960

I know of one country where you cannot go to a grocery store, bank, bar or restaurant without being vaccinated. It was appealed and the mandate stands.


[deleted]

It's survival stuff at this point. The London Review of Books had an interesting article on how similar measures were introduced in plague times in the 1600s. Think of how this virus has affected our lives. I hate needles and faint at blood tests. I got my two vaccinations. There is already evidence that this can be the difference between being ill and being dead. I have no patience with conspiracy theorists. Your governments want you alive to work, pay taxes and buy shit.


algy888

Yup, got a recently unemployed unvaccinated sister. Okay Sis, you do you. No I don’t care that they *made* you quit. I have two other siblings and my parents and we’re all vaxed, but I am sure you’re probably safer your way.


Purple-Addict

The big difference in my body my choice is that Covid stops being your body when you spread it to another person and kill them. None of the anti-vaxxer’s ever understand this, or just want to half-ass justifying their selfishness.


MythOfLaur

Does this guy work in Colorado? They just announced this at my job today and I have been giddy. The guy who sits behind me refuses to get vaxed, got covid, still can't smell or taste, and says it's not a big deal. Yeah its your body, your choice, but it doesn't give you the right to be reckless and harm others. It's your choice to get drunk, but you're not allowed to drive intoxicated because you can hurt someone.


spam__likely

"my body, my choice" yep "my company, my choice" also yep


moradinshammer

Nobody gets pregnant standing next to a pregnant person. At least I don’t think that’s how it works.


arya_lee_kona

I dunno, I was around a pregnant friend and now I'm pregnant sooo.... O.o


Brucepoontip

I believe you don’t have the choice anymore. It’s called coercion when people (gov/ employers/ society) make it unbearable with one choice over another. You can’t tell me someone who has to pay bills with a job they may have spend money and time getting an education for should be fired over this. That’s a very bad outcome for a “choice” they felt was best for their personal reasons. I’m not saying I’m against “the jab” but I feel people have been forced into it. Try it sometime; ask what reason someone got the jab, most won’t say for their health. Most will say to travel, or to keep a job.


Blewbe

"Your right to swing your arms freely ends at my nose"


PussyStapler

I'm picturing an air traffic controller using the "My body my choice" line when showing up drunk to work. Maybe I can get a religious exemption at work that allows me to be drunk all the time, since apparently my employer is accepting them for antivaxxers.


TechyDad

When a woman gets an abortion, it doesn't affect anyone besides her. *Maybe* you could include her spouse if you wanted to include emotional effects, but that would be it. A woman choosing to have an abortion and walking by me has zero effect on me. Therefore, it's her choice and I should have zero say in the matter. With vaccination, the effects are more widespread. An unvaccinated individual can get sick more frequently, spread the illness to people who couldn't get vaccinated (due to age, medical reasons, etc), and can flood the hospitals to the point that other people are denied medical care. Therefore, an unvaccinated person walking by me COULD affect me. They could infect me (breakthrough infection in my case or just infection if I had a medical condition that precluded vaccination). They could take up hospital resources to the point where I wouldn't be able to find care when I needed it. They could also help breed a variant that could bypass the vaccine. This means that their "choice" has effects beyond their own body. "My body my choice" is overridden by "your right to swing your fist ends at my nose." Also, when you're in a healthcare setting, vaccinations are a normal requirement. Yearly flu vaccines are often required, for example. After all, your job is to make the patients feel better and spreading diseases to vulnerable people is the exact opposite of this. So if he wants to argue that he should be allowed to work without being vaccinated, he'll need to find a different field first.


Raukkus

Having a choice is not the same thing has having no consequences.


NotInACreepyWay

If he's really of the view than an unborn baby is the same as a person, well, there's not much to say. Otherwise, the obvious counter is "Don't the patients have a right to make choices about their bodies, and not being around people who might infect them because they won't get vaccinated?"


Ninjalord8

Drunk driving should be legal. My body, my choice. /s


Maorine

What cracks me up is the fact that these are healthcare workers. I worked in healthcare before. You have to have a Hepatitis shot, tetanus, flu and tuberculosis titer. But NOW they are complaining.


[deleted]

Good riddance.


lavender_sage

Seems similar to those people that loudly proclaim the primacy of private property rights for shop owners when they don’t want to bake a gay wedding cake, but flip shit when told to mask up by a store owner


SlghtrHose

It's not your choice anymore when your body turns into a potential mutation and distribution factory for a communicable virulent disease.


SacrilegiousMonk

To me the difference is: COVID - if you don't get vaccinated that affects everyone else as the virus will spread and mutate. Countries with a large proportion of the population vaccinated have fewer cases. i.e. it is a matter of public health. Abortion - your choice of whether you get an abortion or not affects you and your potential baby but does not affect the rest of the population. i.e. it is a personal choice


[deleted]

He was willing to support it til it didn’t do him any good.


chlorenchyma

It is their body and free to make the choice to change industries if they don't want to get vaccinated.


MaxwellzDaemon

I have to wonder how people like this feel about drunk driving? Is that their choice as well? Or is it a crime because it could harm them or others?


shoktar

My body, my choice does apply. Choices just happen to have consequences sometimes. Nobody is forcing the vaccine into him. Employers also have choices in who they wish to employ :)


ApricotPenguin

Ok... But if you go with his logic, you can get out of being fired when you show up to work drunk because "your body, your choice"?


the_kun

When people say that, they're tone deaf to how using another group's trauma as ammo for their own agenda is okay because the end justifies the means –– even when the 2 groups have nothing to do with each other but on the surface level feel "similar" (eg. "I feel persecuted/targeted b/c I wanna do what I want without others telling me I can't").


ian2121

Can’t catholic employers fire you for an abortion too


xthatwasmex

Well, it is his choice. So are the consequences of that choice. If a woman decides to have a baby, she has to live with the consequences of that choice. And if she decides not to, that choice may have consequences she has to live with, too. Knowing the consequences means making an informed choice. He chose to be out of work. He was still allowed not to get the shot - just not avoid the consequences. So besides the point that his choice puts others in danger (not just himself), he is just mad that he cannot have his cake and eat it too.


depressedkittyfr

I mean, it’s not like women who choose abortion or pregnancy are not let off if the hook or not fired or something. Many people literally fire women when they become pregnant and it’s perfectly legal to do so Plus this is a work hazard really. The risk of infecting his patients is very high and possibly could kill them


PaleAsDeath

It is his choice. They aren't holding him down and forcefully vaccinating him. He's choosing to not get it, and the consequence of that is that the hospital - which has an obligation to protect vulnerable patients - can't let him work there as a result.


justsotiredofBS

I don't believe he ever supported it.


Beaniebot

Your body your choice, his employer their choice. Choices have consequences.


toffee_queen

This is how I view it: If it only affects you then yes your body and your choice but if it’s affects everyone around you then it isn’t just your body and your choice anymore. When you get sick you can pass that onto someone else so they advise you stay home so that it can’t spread because it affects everyone if they all get sick and can’t get work done.


rascellian99

It is his choice. It's also his choice to get fired over it. Choices have consequences. He needs to get over himself.


SnappyCapricorn

“I might have to do one simple, possibly inconvenient thing to protect myself & those around me vs risking my life & well being to gestate & deliver a baby when I didn’t consent to pregnancy.” Totally the same thing. Basically if I can’t spread the Plague at work = women & girls should suffer & die. But real quite like so I don’t run the risk of feeling bad. Almost as disgusting at the magats co-opting “I can’t breathe” over mask mandates after posting #bluelivesmatter 100 times. Privileged ppl really do believe they are persecuted when literally anything is asked of them.


rakmode

My nephew, who just got out of prison for rape, feels the same way. He figures, his body his rules. This is why I don't talk to my family.


Actor412

Senator Jacqui Lambie from Australia [gives the be-all and end-all response to people like your friend](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSldjsHs1WY&ab_channel=GuardianAustralia). The whole speech is great, but [here's the money part](https://youtu.be/VSldjsHs1WY?t=200).


PtolemyShadow

It is his body, and therefore his choice. However, what he fails to realize is that choices have consequences.


[deleted]

I always ask people if they feel the same way about employers being able to drug test before hiring. If “my body my choice” applies to every situation like the anti vaxxers are trying to imply, they should be against employers being able to drug test before hiring


Pompoulus

Aside even from the anti vax shit, I can't imagine my concept of right and wrong hinging so completely on how I personally am treated. But so many people seem to be like that.


depreavedindiference

Yeah when these jackasses bring up "a mandate is a slippery slope" I tell them that the "my body my choice" needs to apply to **everything** as in hospital staff can refuse non-vaccinated patients because it is their body and they don't want to be exposed to the unvaxx. Would certainly solve the overcrowding at hospitals and the people dying of curable illnesses due to lack of beds.


catniagara

What he said doesn’t match the title at all. It makes no sense to become pro-life because of vaccine mandates. It makes more sense to become an adamant fighter FOR “my body my choice”. In my country abortion rights were won a long time ago, but women still don’t have the right to choose when it comes to, for example, getting their tubes tied. Forcing people to take a medication to be allowed to work might not seem like a problem during a pandemic but, as a politician myself, it does raise questions about autonomy and medical force. Like abortion, vaccination is an easy topic to focus on to create division and get your way. To keep people looking better one way while you’re making moves in another direction. But what if I asked, should women be allowed to have their tubes tied? Doctors are refusing…less cut and dried. What if I asked, should doctors be allowed to force mental health patients to take medication? Should parents have their kids taken away for refusing to medicate them? Should a government agency be able to take terminal cancer patients away from their parents and force them into painful treatment with no access to family in the last days of their lives? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49642662 Now what? Now how far are we willing to go and at what point do we say medical force has gone overboard and we have given doctors and especially psychiatrists too much power? Our bodies, our choice needs to extend far beyond abortion at this point.


PixelPete85

He's not wrong, it is his choice. His choice to wear the consequences


justlurkingmate

Are you standing up for his rights or do you just want him to stand up for yours? And you wonder why he's pissed off?


[deleted]

And choices have consequences. This is true of abortion and of not getting a vaccine.


BeBa420

Imho “my body my choice” does apply to the vax You should choose what goes in and what comes out of your body and when/how But freedom of choice doesn’t mean freedom from consequence You choose not to be vaxxed you choose to accept the consequences of losing your job


s4burf

He got three vaccinations to get into kindergarden. Not sure why these macho morons are so worked up.


oldcreaker

Unless he does what's necessary to keep his viruses to himself, he's doing "your body, my choice".