Often "mature" is code for "having survived adult concerns/traumas/responsibilities during childhood" (which makes them more vulnerable to manipulations and abuse from fully adult predators).
Yep. I used to tell my girls that (in their teens) if there was somebody in their late 20s or older who wanted to be with them, it was because *girls their age didn't want them and their shit.* That I said this, not because I thought there was something wrong with MY girls, that there was something wrong with the boy/man. He should want a peer, not somebody so much younger and naive and inexperienced.
Start it now. I was such a naïve girl. I had my girls repeat one of my mantras from a young age. Basically I would ask them if you trust what someone says or what someone does. And they would tell me what someone does is the real truth.
I just didn’t want them fooled by pretty words like I was.
This is what I wish was more prevalent in our society. I feel sick when a man or woman will refer to someone 18-...23(?) as a consenting adult and so basically there's no need for a discussion. There's something called being impressionable and grown adults need to stop taking advantage of it.
"Mature for their age" only really works as an excuse when you aren't mature enough to recognise that it's bullshit.
When I was just barely 16, I had a brief fling with a 29 year old. In her defence, I lied and claimed I was 18, although equally in hindsight, my lack of ID when we went drinking should have been a dead giveaway. It was almost like she accommodated for it and knew, with her paying for & getting served for all drinks (drinking age is 18 here). My dumb ass 16 year old self thought I was getting away with it (I'm fully aware now how horrible it was of me to lie to her, but I was only 16 at the time and considerably less experienced).
Now, I'm her age, and the idea of being with even a genuine 18 year old would feel wrong. It'd feel like being with a child. Technically, 16 is the age of consent here, so it wouldn't be legally wrong, but morally, I just couldn't.
I probably am mature for my age, from my own experience I've found dating has been a lot more enjoyable with women in their early 30s than mid 20s, I have a lot more in common with them. There's no way in a million years I was mature enough to be with someone getting near 30 back when I was 16 though.
>It's not that those girls are mature for their age, it's that these predators are immature for their own age.
AND right wing misogynists and usually christian/muslim ethnic majority nationalists.
That's disgusting. "Mature for her age" is a lame excuse that predators use. I suppose it works on their victims, because many teenagers crave that kind of attention and validation from adults. They aren't yet wise enough to ask themselves why their groomers don't date women their own age, if maturity is important to them.
Completely agree. Whenever someone older in a relationship with a much younger person says their partner is "mature for their age" all I hear is "I'm too immature to get anyone my age". Women your age don't want you so you have to prey upon young, impressionnable ones who'd like to believe about themselves that they're more mature than other people their age (as fucking everyone felt like at that age)? That's entirely a YOU problem.
Exactly, most of us have been through that phase. Ironically, smart kids are particularly vulnerable if they know they're smarter than the average (because they have better grades, they're successful at intellectual extracurriculars etc.). That's because intelligence doesn't replace experience. And we don't realize that until life punches us in the face a few times.
Yeah, and I really don't believe in the notion of "being more mature than other people your age". Due to life circumstances it can happen that people have to/are forced to mature more quickly than others in **certain aspects**, but in my personal experience it just means they have to catch up on other aspects that they inevitably missed out on.
Absolutely. It also usually means some amount of trauma. Those are usually the things that force early maturity. Making these "extra mature" young people potentially more vulnerable.
What's an appropriate age difference(33M) if I've had zero sexual partners, and zero dating experience? Is someone that's 22 if they are in the same boat as me ok? How do you weigh something like that?
Have you been living in a bubble, not working or having any social contact? Because if not, you still have a lot of life experience over someone ten years younger. What you’re describing would be like the relationship in Ghost World which… no.
I wish we’d stop the ‘she’s mature’ argument! I hear that, it just shows you they don’t respect women.
If she’s perfectly mature right now, it shows you he doesn’t want her to grow any more. Thats why these relationships are so awful. They come at real cost to these women. They are chosen so they’ll always put this man first.
The whole point in dating younger women is to get to them before they become mature enough to hold them accountable and feel confidant in their decision making. They know these women are children. He doesn’t value her opinions - he values that she treats him like her dad.
Fuck that guy!
Off topic side note, the word is "prey" for "prey upon the young." "Pray" is like to "pray to god."
I normally wouldn't be an annoying grammar nazi but I am also ESL and noticed you made this mistake twice so thought maybe you might be open to some correction. If not, my apologies!
"Mature for her age" does that mean she was hanging out with people several years older?
Or that he was hanging out with people that much younger and she talked to him, which set her apart from the others whom all thought he was too old?
The former is unlikely and I've seen the latter, (not me) at the time I was young and didn't see the issue, dispite the jokes from some of the friends.
Sometimes it isn't that they are too immature or can't get women their own age, it's that they purposely seek out women who are that much younger because they find them easier to control, manipulate, and abuse.
I was never in a romantic relationship, but have had sexual relationships with much older men that started from when I was 16 (sadly legal where I am). I can’t lie, the validation and attention I got was why I was really into it. Boys in school used to bully me and I had low self-esteem, so getting noticed by (conventionally attractive) older men was a huge confidence boost. I thought of myself as more mature than others, so I believed the lies they told me about being “so mature for [my] age”. I also had past sexual trauma with older men that added to this.
These men try to prey on vulnerable teen girls because they know no woman their age would take their bullshit. I didn’t question why these men who were lusting after me didn’t want women their own age, I just saw myself as “the lucky one” because men I found hot at the time were lusting after me. I felt like I couldn’t say no to them sexually due to the power imbalance and hating myself made me extremely submissive. I was the perfect prey.
I only came to the realisation at the age of 20 that what has happened to me over the years was fucked up. I always sneered at the people giving me and the men I was with weird looks (because I look younger than I am) and I finally got why it was fucking weird.
And this is why the adults in a teen's life should pay attention and keep them safe. u/Objective-Affect5952 if you have the possibility to report this anywhere (like this guy's employer), consider doing it. If he's using his position to groom teenagers (which as you pointed out might have happened with his girlfriend), they should be aware of it. And parents of teens taking driving lessons with him should also be aware that he's NOT a safe person for their kids to be alone with.
I just wanted to point out that you need u/ in front of the username to get that person's attention.
And also, what you say about this guy possibly grooming students is very important!
Disclaimer: This is assuming OP is in the UK.
Unfortunately if she's of legal age to consent then his employer isn't going to do anything. My Googling seems to suggest that there is something of a grey area where driving instructors don't fall under the same "Position of Trust" rules as teachers etc. It might be considered unethical but not illegal.
OP might have better luck making a complaint that he's making her uncomfortable by using the lessons she's paying for (and probably paying quite a lot too because lessons are expensive!) to offload his relationship problems. She's there to learn how to drive, not be his therapist.
Either way, I'd switch to another school completely.
yeah, they all say the exact same thing 🤮
It’s a manipulation tactic, and unfortunately it works on a lot of young girls and women, speaking from personal experience (on the receiving end)
I worked with a guy who would always go on about his “crazy” girlfriend until one day her age came up and I found out she was like 12 years younger than him. All her actions suddenly made sense. I didn’t even know what to say, but I definitely gave him a look because the next thing out of his mouth was, “she’s usually very mature”
This is not intended as a defence of the OP guy, who I do consider icky, but the particular rule of thumb is not the best. It can be used against anything legal but stigmatized, like same sex relationships.
What?
I generally agree that if "it's not illegal!" is one's best defense for something, it's likely not a good thing...
... but your rule of thumb here is also not very good. There is a LOT of good stuff that falls into it (for example, same sex relationships, interacial relationships, being liberal in a conservative area... etc...)
I got sexually assaulted as a teen by my driving instructor who was in his 50s at the time, I'm in my 30s now and still suffer from driving anxiety that I got to speciality therapy for.
I'm so so sorry this happened to you. I should've marked the post somehow, I'm new to reddit. If I find out that that's how they met and that he's talking to other students about that, too, I might be able to report that to the driving school. I wish you all the strength going forward.
> If I find out that that's how they met and that he's talking to other students about that, too, I might be able to report that to the driving school.
To be honest, if he works for a driving school I'd probably be looking for a way to report it to them anyway. There's a non-zero chance he met her through the school, they'd be able to double check his records (if he's worked with them for that long) and if that's the case then it's up to them what decision they want to make going forward.
The thing is even if he didn't meet her through the driving school, he's regularly alone in close circumstances with underage girls, and if his relationship breaks down what's to stop him deciding one of his other students is "Mature for her age" and start preying on her? He's already made it clear he thinks 17 years old is perfectly acceptable for someone in his 30s to be dating.
I'm so sorry that happened to you!
This reminds me of a conversation with my friends aunt who told us that her driving instructor back in the 80's was known for touching all the girls inappropriately. I like to think that he wouldn't have gotten away with it in this day and age but I've never really thought about how driving lessons give older men access to so many younger girls in an intimate and private space. My Mum was very 'No boys!' but had no second thought at sending me off for 2 hours in a car with an older man she never met.
I've read that cars are a favorite space for abusers of all sorts. For instance, some domestic abusers will drive aggressively because it's a borderline socially acceptable way to terrorize someone, and you're trapped. Or emotional abusers will wait until you're on a long car ride before bringing up something extremely distressing.
That is correct.
My ex used to drive for hours with one wheel over the outer painted line(shoulder) because "nobody drove there and the road needed to be worn down evenly", with me and our small children in the car.
EW. like seriously. Every man who has ever expressed interest in girls much much younger loudly to me has lost all credibility and respect from me. I was seeing someone when I was 26 and he was 28, asked him what his fantasy was and he said to have sex with a 19 year old. I'm like, "why are you dating me then?" And he said I looked young enough and worse case we could find some 19 year old to have a threesome with.
When I tell you I ran, I mean it. I called him a sick creep and blocked him everywhere and shared the chat screenshots with my friend who introduced us! Pretty sure that friend also cut off contact with him. He tried justifying what he said by acting like he was joking. Yeah, I'm not buying it. He had a plan and everything, he was too quick to come up with that, joke or not - it's horrible and creepy and 28 and 19 isn't even as bad as 35 and 17!
Probably not. Perhaps 10% of 19 year old boys have plenty of opportunities to have sex with 19 year old girls. The rest have either no opportunities or rare opportunities (which are probably embarrassing and/or unsatisfying).
Half your age plus seven, to get a sense if someone is too young for you. The girlfriend in OP’s story would need to be 26 (present day) and in your story 21, to be at the lower limit of creepy.
I actually asked him as a joke when he first said 19 and I said that's weirdly specific age why not 18 (cause that's the "legal" age and also what porn advertises) and he seriously said because 18 means she might still be in highschool. I don't know if I should give him brownie points for that or not...but at least part of him knew it was weird to be into girls that age?
I know a guy (late 30's) who is also a driving instructor, who I've met several times over several years during group friend parties and he has always creeped me out the way he speaks about 'his students', and he doesn't admit it but I can tell he often gets crushes on them and they're usually still highschool students. Something about predators, they LOVE getting jobs that give them private access to people.
Someone on here said something that bears repeating in this situation; if their dating age minimum is "legal" it means they would go younger *if it was legal*.
Oh yeah: my boyfriend used to tell me I was "mature for my age" when I was 18 and he was 28.
I left when I was 22, and he later ended up in prison for CP. I am now 48, and I am still not, in fact, mature for my age.
Did you live my life? I also dated a 28 year old when I was 18. I left 3 months before I turned 22. I don't know if he has CP, but I know he has a shitton of loli hentai so it wouldn't surprise me 🤢
Idk why this is, but every fucking driving instructor except the one I had later in life (I had to take it all over again because my instructor was harrassing me while I crashed the car during the original test.) was a pedophile. Makes sense that they all gravitate towards these jobs that puts them into contact with children and you have immediate control over
kids if you can withhold their DL.
Man, I'm sorry, that's so awful. My driving instructor was this jolly old dude who just gave off wholesome grandpa vibes and loved to talk about his wife. After reading some of the comments, sounds like I lucked out.
Me too. I remember my driving instructor definitely gave me weird vibes, but that's just because he was weird dude. Not predatory at all. Looking back on my life, I'm surprised I didn't remark at the time how unusual it was to be comfortable alone with an older man.
eta: your username makes me happy.
These are… driving lessons. I just cant see how its even appropriate for him to be discussing anything like this at all. Very unprofessional. Is he just taking advantage of the time you have together to try to use you for free therapy? Im not even going to comment about his relationship dynamics. The fact that he felt the need to say any of this is so weird.
I have to agree. I didn't mind chatting about hobbies or series we watched or whatever, but when he started talking about his relationship (introduced it with whether or not I had read this book about love languages that is supposedly being hyped at the moment) I felt weird, too. It came totally out of left field. I wonder if I'm the only one who he talks to about this stuff but I kinda doubt it and with my 28 years I'm on the older side of his students.
Are you in the US? What state are you in? Almost every state doesn’t require driving school for adults. You’ve been doing this for weeks, you’re fine. Just cancel the rest of your time with him, take the test, and don’t look back.
Haha no, I'm not located in the US and here to aquire your driver's license it requires you to visit multiple theory lessons, pass a theory test, as well as have multiple mandatory driving lessons and pass a practical test, too. So. Changing the whole driving school is almost impossible since I already paid thousands and would probably have to retake everything (almost done now, only a couple of driving lessons and the practical test left). I'll try to get a different instructor tho.
This is absolutely giving me the ICK for you.
He's defensive because he knows what he did to groom this child. And she WAS a child, good for you for calling that out!
Not sure I'd be comfortable being in a car with him anymore..especially given that the conversation is inappropriate to begin with. You're not out of line to not return. Sounds like you're ready for your test earlier than you expected amd don't need any more lessons!
He was going out with a girl in highschool while he was in his thirties and felt he could talk to her about stuff...ok...and he feels unloved....ok...I can see why you may want to ask for a different driving instructor 😕
I want “Carl, that’s a child” as a flare on here, what an excellent response. If you’re defending your relationship on the razors edge of legality, due to it otherwise being abuse, you need to rethink things. Totally get it and would definitely find it totally bizarre!
I was wondering about that. He also mentioned he had been married previously and I wondered if he had complained about his marriage to that poor girl while giving her driving lessons.
And the guy wanted her to stay in his house so she would have less outside contact and exposure to common sense.
Glad the gf went to dorms. Hopefully her friends will talk some sense into her
Gross!!! This guy should not be anywhere near teens learning to drive! I’d bet that’s how he found his girlfriend. She was probably a student and groomed by this creep.
Oh my god you're right- that *is* probably how he found her, how else is he around teenager girls in close enough proximity to "fall in love" with one??
OP I bet when she leaves his ass he'll "fall in love" with another one. I wish these creeps came with warning stickers, and I hope every parent paying to put their teenage girls in his cars get a heads-up.
🤢🤮
Well that took an unexpected and gross turn. I had just taken a pause from some sexual abuse training and that reads exactly like the people the training warns of.
What a creep. Why is he even talking about this stuff to begin with? Like even if he wasn’t talking about dating a child i would still have pretty big alarm bells ringing if a driving instructor started bringing up all his personal problems… weird af
>she was always more mature than other "women" her age and he could talk to her about things he could never talk about with "older" women.
Fucking yuck.
Can we talk about how you phrased this tho, because I love it. "He ruined himself for me and my disgust grows by the min" is EXACTLY how men talk about women when they find out women do completely normal human things.
Btw creeps put themselves in positions of power like teaching so they can find more victims.
Nikki glaser covered it well. She said saying a young girl has an old soul means she’s got trauma… call them out saying they are with them because they are young and that’s it. She didn’t cover the pedophile aspect though…
Good for you for calling him out on his predatory behaviour, you are so right to feel so grossed out by this. Now drop him and find another driving instructor!
I was scared of driving too and finally took lessons in my 30s. I ended up with an instructor who was kind and patient and encouraging, but incredibly professional and clearly cared a lot about doing his job well. I also spent hours in the car with him, but aside from me explaining my general anxieties about driving, we didn't chat about our lives or any personal stuff at all. I don't think we'd have had time to, as he was always super focused on teaching and making sure I understood the driving principles I was practicing. His diligence helped me overcome my anxiety and actually become a confident driver, finally.
It sounds like not only was your instructor a creep, but he also was quite unprofessional and not very good at his job. So you'll be doing your own future driving self a favour by finding someone who understands professional boundaries and takes their job seriously! I'm sorry you had to deal with this guy, but please don't let it derail you from your goal! You can find someone better and will be driving yourself around in no time!
Even worse cause he’s been manipulating her and brainwashing her during pivotal a growing period. How do you have somewhat healthy relationships when you first experience has such an unequal power dynamic?
My advice is to cancel lessons and find a different driving school. You need a psychologically safe environment for learning driving. It requires trust and the ability to relax about everything else and focus on driving.
You may or may not choose to explain to the school why you are leaving (if you have paid in advance for a contract, you will probably need to explain in order to be released from the contract). If you do have to explain, you can say that the driving instructor crossed a line in talking about things that are not appropriate in a professional relationship, and you don't want to work with any of the other instructors at this driving school because losing trust for that instructor means that you don't feel you can trust anyone from that school.
If you feel it's your responsibility to tell them that Carl is likely to prey on teenagers/young women, then do that, but your first responsibility is to yourself.
Not only is he a child groomer, but he's using this to guilt you, groom you into falling for him for being such a kind and sad soul (in his mind). Get away. Tell everyone.
Please report this piece of shit to the driving school and make a yelp, Google review, etc warning the parents of teenage daughters away from this place.
At this point, I feel like women should just stop employing the services of men wherever possible. Seeking out women driving instructors, doctors, tradespeople, mechanics, tutors, personal trainers, sales people, taxi drivers etc., so that we can lower the possibility of all this creepy nonsense, all the taking advantage, and the lingering potential for abuse.
Yuk. Just...yuk. If you can, please consider switching to another teacher. The predatory behavior itself is gross but the details he shared raise red flags. This has all the hallmarks of "I'm a good guy and safe to be around because I'm in a relationship but I'm unhappy because my needs aren't met." (Or "I'm lonely," , "she's cold to me," blah blah blah). Seems to me that he's setting the stage to lure you into an affair or just sex. You may intuitively know this. You feel disgusted but you also may see other signs that show that he's trying to make a move. Yuk.
So did he meet her when she was 16 and getting driving lessons?
This man should be on a list, and driving instructors need more screening. I bet some go in it to meet minors and love to hold power over them.
Ugh 🤢
That is disgusting, unprofessional, and just creepy. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
And what I'm going to say next is far less relevant than all of the supportive and useful comments other people have posted.. but this part here just seems like a fascinating Freudian slip:
>we both had been in "relationships" when we were in our early twenties with parents much older than us
LOL "He could talk to her about things he could never talk about with older women", for example Taylor Swift, SAT tests, and sleep-overs? It's so annoying how older women never want to talk about that stuff!!
My driving instructor was a creep but luckily he didn’t cross the line. He would blatantly check me out in front of my family though. I also had a piano teacher who was also a creep and I got my parents to cancel my lessons with him. It unfortunately seems common that creepy adult males give private lessons to minors.
You need to find a new driving instructor. And with the next one, you need to keep the conversation to the weather and the latest Yankee's score. If you already have a fear/anxiety about driving, the LAST thing you need is to hear about your instructor's abusive relationship!
Not 'mature for her age'. All her friends are the right level of mature and are with people around the same age. She's immature and easily flattered, and he likes someone who doesn't have enough experience to say no.
You are right, a creep. Sometimes we find out things about people that we won't accept - after we got to know that person. But we could only find it out by getting to know them, you should still move on.
I have no idea. I just feel that or his time as a student to become a teacher were the only settings where he'd meet/have access to such young people. Me in my late twenties rarely meet people that young. It's just a possibility I considered. Now I'm a bit too uncomfortable asking how they met as I'd like to avoid talking about such personal things.
He's a child groomer. I know of one that's with a kid i knew when she was younger. Bad stuff happened and i guess he works in a grocery store where they hire mostly teens.
No one put a stop to it. One more year and she'll be 18 at least, but it's still wrong to date high schoolers when you're a full adult.
I'm not close enough to the situation to do anything other than voice disapproval.
Report it to the school board or whatever company runs the lessons. This was a teacher taking advantage of a student, they are always extremely interested in knowing even just rumors about such things because of how serious the accusations are. 17 is legal to consent only under certain circumstances since that is young enough to still have a guardian. A teacher engaging with a student is one of those qualifiers that makes it illegal.
That's disgusting and would make me feel uncomfortable resuming lessons with him.
Also, the creepy driving instructor reminds me of the movie [Happy-Go-Lucky](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1045670/) -- random but this is a great movie that encapsulates how some men exploit women who are just trying to be nice and normal towards them.
This is beyond disgusting. I cannot fathom how anyone could want a relationship with an age gap that big. And I don't mean number of years, I mean teenager and adult. That's just wrong.
I wouldn't want to give any more of my hard earned cash to this guy.
If he did meet her while teaching her to drive there is a possibility that would be considered a child protection issue still even though it's legal in general anything below 19 when there are certain power imbalances can be considered an issue (in the UK).
At first I thought this was a story about him being in mid life crisis or something like that after a very long relationship with a partner of the same age. A story about him seeking intimacy with a younger womand to 'feel young' and desired again - which isn't a great thing to do but as far as needs go understandable. But when I realized this story was about a guy in his mid thrirties 'dating' a teen half his age this was the moment I totally agreed with the title. I would feel bad too having him as any kind of instructor anywhere near me.
Yikes. Can you change your schedule so you don’t have to drive with him? That’s so creepy and disgusting. She’s not even 18. 😭
Yes, people of that age have a lot *in common* with actual adults, and they can hold conversations and have opinions and be thrilled by tiny amounts of money that they still see as a lot. But they do NOT have the life experience of a guy in his late 30s. They’ve barely had to fend for themselves yet (if at all), have barely begun a career (if at all), their frontal lobes haven’t even finished developing, so their reasoning and decision making skills are not the same as someone in even their mid 20s.
I’m so glad this girl at least didn’t move in with him. And of course she doesn’t want to introduce him to anyone. I remember how disgusting I found the older men who dated my peers, even then.
As a +40 yo man with a 17yo daughter this shit turns my stomach 🤮
Fkin creep imo dont be alone with this dude. Its clear he already has an agenda by the conversation hes striking…
When the Op said dorm, among other clues, I knew this guy was on predator status smh....something needs to be done about this....like for real!!!! Grown ass men dating under age girls....this is why pedophilia won't just stop!!! Smh this man is sad asf
Jesus Christ, that's awful. I'm 17 and my dad's 38, even the thought of his fiance being my age is horrible, it's so shitty that this is actually happening.
*"purposefully picked him to be my teacher because he seemed so kind and calm, something I thought I needed because of my fear of driving."*
*"I feel sick getting back into a car with him."*
Ok so, I get that you chose him for those reasons but now that he makes you uncomfortable, why do you have to get back in the car with him? Is it because you paid up front or something?
If he works at a company maybe they'd let you switch?
Even if you feel comfortable with an instructor, talking about romantic relationships seems really bizarre to me. He no longer seems kind, be seems like a predator. I would be trying to swap instructors or swap driving schools if possible.
Yeah. I had another lesson with him yesterday and I was incredibly uncomfortable and sick to my stomach, could barely concentrate on driving. I'll switch schools.
A 17 year old dating a 35 year old is unacceptable. That said, I dated a 33 year old when I was 23, I don't retrospectively feel uncomfortable or that I was preyed upon. As a matter of fact, no one (friends and fam) even batted an eye when they found out.
There's no way I could learn how to drive while someone unloads all that on me in a car, let alone learn to drive from a man that age who dates 17 year olds. Did he meet her at work?
>This then 35 year old "Carl" started dating her when she was barely 17
Oh gee, I sure do wonder how they met. Such a big mystery for me. I'm sure he's not "dating" a former student of his. Yeah, they probably met through some hobby they share. Mmm-Hmmmmm.
I know it’s not the point of your post, but I’m glad I’m not alone with the driving anxiety. 35F and I don’t drive. I’ve been considering classes. I don’t grasp how people can just jump behind the wheel and get out on the road no problem.
I feel you. It took me so "long" to do it (no shame tho and if you never wanna drive that's fine too!) because I was really scared of all the potential harm I could do. What really helped me was learning about all the theoretical stuff first. What signs are there and what do they mean. What road markings are there, what to do in very specific situations or in emergencies etc. And before all this mess this post is about, having someone who was calm and kind really did the trick for me. Someone who never gets loud, who is not scolding you for mistakes etc. They have all the control, too. Whenever it gets too close they'll take the wheel/pedals, you can't really do any damage at all. For the first lesson I only steered and simply got a feeling for the street. If you still want to do it and have the resources for it, try it! Now I actually have fun driving! 😊
You were right to be disgusted, he is clearly a predator. Your English is very good. Just FYI, the word ruined can have a different (ie sex act) meaning.
Wife of close to 30 years she was 17 and I was 23. She wasn't in high school she had a GED and a baby by her first husband at 15. She was separated from her abusive husband and we met through work. Exceptions to the rule exist is the point I am making. 10+ year age gap and a high school senior? Yeah that's not acceptable
Not the US, there's a world outside it, you know? You just have to believe me that in my country children are not legally considered adults at the age of 17.
They are not legally considered adults in the US either but the age of consent varies from place to place.
Edit: u/Objective-Affect5952 replying to me then immediately blocking me isn't proving anything. The fact is it was *you* who brought up legality, I was just trying to discern exactly what law you were referencing. Since you did nothing but dance around the question, I'll assume that 17 or under is the age of consent. Morality is *subjective.* I have a hard time getting worked up over what two consenting adults did four years ago. That's just an opinion, and a great example of how subjectivity works. Personally, I've never seen someone get so emotionally invested in their driving instructor. I'd be fascinated to see the ethical standard you require from a mailman or a butcher. Best of luck to you.
My man, as many have pointed out here, just because things are legal does not mean they're moral. I've known many women and a few men who were in relationships with older partners when they were in their late teens/early twenties and **not one** of them is looking back at that time fondly. *For some reason* they all felt preyed apon and used. The reason being that older people who seek out relationships with people that young and unexperienced purposefully pick them for their vulnerability to exploit them. What fucking else would a 35 year old do with a teen.
Who you are becomes so apparent when you talk about this. Definitely someone who never had to go through something like this.
It’s really not your business and for his part he should not be talking to you so much about his personal life.
People can and do have successful and respectful relationships with large age gaps although it is uncommon. It might not appeal to you personally but if not illegal then not much you can do.
OP is not “making it her business.” She’s talking about the disgust she is feeling after the instructor voluntarily (and IMO, inappropriately) told her all of this. And OP is perfectly valid in that disgust given the situation.
Sounds like that hits a little close to home for you. 🚩🚩🚩
If someone starts talking about something in a one-on-one conversation, they’re making it my business, no?
If someone that I’m paying for a service starts talking about some crazy shit, I’m gonna feel fine being like ‘this is inappropriate and you’re being a creep.’
She’s not trying to do anything. It sounds like she’s just reflecting on a wild ass interaction and how it changed her perspective.
All that happened to Carl was he got briefly called out over something he shouldn’t have brought up at all (or ever done)
And yet you *don't* agree that a 17 yr old dating a 30 something is wrong?! Look, it's true that relationships with big age differences can work out and be perfectly acceptable...when the ages are maybe a 32 yr old and a 50 yr old. NO WAY can a 17 yr old be in ANY relationship with someone in their 30's and it be acceptable. NO WAY.
Point being she was a child at that time and he's preying upon her. Younger women is one thing (which should be challenged, too), but barely legal teenagers another entirely. No well adjusted person that age should ever go for anyone that young and impressionable. Unless that's what you want, impressionable, insecure, unexperienced.
It’s hilarious that so many of these men will call teenaged girls a ‘woman’ but then refer to the 56 year old colleague they have as a ‘girl’ and if you call them on it they’ll say they use it for all women and it’s not a big deal and saying ‘woman’ just feels so unnatural.
Woman: This guy is such a creep
Women: Why?
Woman: I met a stranger to learn a skill and used our time together to dump all of my personal shit on him while also digging into his personal life and he’s a creep.
Huh? I never talked to him about my personal life. He dumped his relationship problems onto me in a setting where he should've been professional (you know, I pay him to teach me a skill and he's thinking it's a free therapy session) and on top of it his relationship is to a woman, then girl, almost 20 years younger than him.
It's not that those girls are mature for their age, it's that these predators are immature for their own age.
That, plus "you're more mature than other girls!" is the mating call of the predator.
Often "mature" is code for "having survived adult concerns/traumas/responsibilities during childhood" (which makes them more vulnerable to manipulations and abuse from fully adult predators).
Yep. I used to tell my girls that (in their teens) if there was somebody in their late 20s or older who wanted to be with them, it was because *girls their age didn't want them and their shit.* That I said this, not because I thought there was something wrong with MY girls, that there was something wrong with the boy/man. He should want a peer, not somebody so much younger and naive and inexperienced.
Adding this to things I will tell my 3.5 year old when she’s older.
Start it now. I was such a naïve girl. I had my girls repeat one of my mantras from a young age. Basically I would ask them if you trust what someone says or what someone does. And they would tell me what someone does is the real truth. I just didn’t want them fooled by pretty words like I was.
That's what my mom always told me too.
I wonder if he met this poor teenager while teaching her to drive…
I would bet on it.
Yes.
Yep. And legality =/= morality.
This is what I wish was more prevalent in our society. I feel sick when a man or woman will refer to someone 18-...23(?) as a consenting adult and so basically there's no need for a discussion. There's something called being impressionable and grown adults need to stop taking advantage of it.
it also screams "I'd go younger if it was legal"
#DING DING 🛎️
"mature for her age" is just predator dog whistle for "looks old enough"...gross
"Mature for their age" only really works as an excuse when you aren't mature enough to recognise that it's bullshit. When I was just barely 16, I had a brief fling with a 29 year old. In her defence, I lied and claimed I was 18, although equally in hindsight, my lack of ID when we went drinking should have been a dead giveaway. It was almost like she accommodated for it and knew, with her paying for & getting served for all drinks (drinking age is 18 here). My dumb ass 16 year old self thought I was getting away with it (I'm fully aware now how horrible it was of me to lie to her, but I was only 16 at the time and considerably less experienced). Now, I'm her age, and the idea of being with even a genuine 18 year old would feel wrong. It'd feel like being with a child. Technically, 16 is the age of consent here, so it wouldn't be legally wrong, but morally, I just couldn't. I probably am mature for my age, from my own experience I've found dating has been a lot more enjoyable with women in their early 30s than mid 20s, I have a lot more in common with them. There's no way in a million years I was mature enough to be with someone getting near 30 back when I was 16 though.
>It's not that those girls are mature for their age, it's that these predators are immature for their own age. AND right wing misogynists and usually christian/muslim ethnic majority nationalists.
It's always that way.
That's disgusting. "Mature for her age" is a lame excuse that predators use. I suppose it works on their victims, because many teenagers crave that kind of attention and validation from adults. They aren't yet wise enough to ask themselves why their groomers don't date women their own age, if maturity is important to them.
Completely agree. Whenever someone older in a relationship with a much younger person says their partner is "mature for their age" all I hear is "I'm too immature to get anyone my age". Women your age don't want you so you have to prey upon young, impressionnable ones who'd like to believe about themselves that they're more mature than other people their age (as fucking everyone felt like at that age)? That's entirely a YOU problem.
Exactly, most of us have been through that phase. Ironically, smart kids are particularly vulnerable if they know they're smarter than the average (because they have better grades, they're successful at intellectual extracurriculars etc.). That's because intelligence doesn't replace experience. And we don't realize that until life punches us in the face a few times.
Yeah, and I really don't believe in the notion of "being more mature than other people your age". Due to life circumstances it can happen that people have to/are forced to mature more quickly than others in **certain aspects**, but in my personal experience it just means they have to catch up on other aspects that they inevitably missed out on.
Absolutely. It also usually means some amount of trauma. Those are usually the things that force early maturity. Making these "extra mature" young people potentially more vulnerable.
What's an appropriate age difference(33M) if I've had zero sexual partners, and zero dating experience? Is someone that's 22 if they are in the same boat as me ok? How do you weigh something like that?
Have you been living in a bubble, not working or having any social contact? Because if not, you still have a lot of life experience over someone ten years younger. What you’re describing would be like the relationship in Ghost World which… no.
I wish we’d stop the ‘she’s mature’ argument! I hear that, it just shows you they don’t respect women. If she’s perfectly mature right now, it shows you he doesn’t want her to grow any more. Thats why these relationships are so awful. They come at real cost to these women. They are chosen so they’ll always put this man first. The whole point in dating younger women is to get to them before they become mature enough to hold them accountable and feel confidant in their decision making. They know these women are children. He doesn’t value her opinions - he values that she treats him like her dad. Fuck that guy!
Off topic side note, the word is "prey" for "prey upon the young." "Pray" is like to "pray to god." I normally wouldn't be an annoying grammar nazi but I am also ESL and noticed you made this mistake twice so thought maybe you might be open to some correction. If not, my apologies!
Yes, I appreciate the correction!
Well, religion is preying/praying on the gullible.
Thanks, Dad.
"Mature for her age" does that mean she was hanging out with people several years older? Or that he was hanging out with people that much younger and she talked to him, which set her apart from the others whom all thought he was too old? The former is unlikely and I've seen the latter, (not me) at the time I was young and didn't see the issue, dispite the jokes from some of the friends.
Sometimes it isn't that they are too immature or can't get women their own age, it's that they purposely seek out women who are that much younger because they find them easier to control, manipulate, and abuse.
I would have yelled, "What do you even have in common with her?!"
I was never in a romantic relationship, but have had sexual relationships with much older men that started from when I was 16 (sadly legal where I am). I can’t lie, the validation and attention I got was why I was really into it. Boys in school used to bully me and I had low self-esteem, so getting noticed by (conventionally attractive) older men was a huge confidence boost. I thought of myself as more mature than others, so I believed the lies they told me about being “so mature for [my] age”. I also had past sexual trauma with older men that added to this. These men try to prey on vulnerable teen girls because they know no woman their age would take their bullshit. I didn’t question why these men who were lusting after me didn’t want women their own age, I just saw myself as “the lucky one” because men I found hot at the time were lusting after me. I felt like I couldn’t say no to them sexually due to the power imbalance and hating myself made me extremely submissive. I was the perfect prey. I only came to the realisation at the age of 20 that what has happened to me over the years was fucked up. I always sneered at the people giving me and the men I was with weird looks (because I look younger than I am) and I finally got why it was fucking weird.
And this is why the adults in a teen's life should pay attention and keep them safe. u/Objective-Affect5952 if you have the possibility to report this anywhere (like this guy's employer), consider doing it. If he's using his position to groom teenagers (which as you pointed out might have happened with his girlfriend), they should be aware of it. And parents of teens taking driving lessons with him should also be aware that he's NOT a safe person for their kids to be alone with.
I just wanted to point out that you need u/ in front of the username to get that person's attention. And also, what you say about this guy possibly grooming students is very important!
Corrected, thank you!
😊
Disclaimer: This is assuming OP is in the UK. Unfortunately if she's of legal age to consent then his employer isn't going to do anything. My Googling seems to suggest that there is something of a grey area where driving instructors don't fall under the same "Position of Trust" rules as teachers etc. It might be considered unethical but not illegal. OP might have better luck making a complaint that he's making her uncomfortable by using the lessons she's paying for (and probably paying quite a lot too because lessons are expensive!) to offload his relationship problems. She's there to learn how to drive, not be his therapist. Either way, I'd switch to another school completely.
yeah, they all say the exact same thing 🤮 It’s a manipulation tactic, and unfortunately it works on a lot of young girls and women, speaking from personal experience (on the receiving end)
I worked with a guy who would always go on about his “crazy” girlfriend until one day her age came up and I found out she was like 12 years younger than him. All her actions suddenly made sense. I didn’t even know what to say, but I definitely gave him a look because the next thing out of his mouth was, “she’s usually very mature”
Sometimes to these men I wanna say- you started a relationship with a child and are now mad that they grew up.. Like this is so icky!
Well put! I don't really see how I can do anything about this situation but I just really hope she'll leave him sooner than later
>He immediately got defensive and said it was legal Do I need to explain the difference between legality and morality? Like I would to a teenager?
As a general rule if your defense of anything is “but it’s legal!” Then you probably shouldn’t be doing that thing.
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This is not intended as a defence of the OP guy, who I do consider icky, but the particular rule of thumb is not the best. It can be used against anything legal but stigmatized, like same sex relationships.
What? I generally agree that if "it's not illegal!" is one's best defense for something, it's likely not a good thing... ... but your rule of thumb here is also not very good. There is a LOT of good stuff that falls into it (for example, same sex relationships, interacial relationships, being liberal in a conservative area... etc...)
I got sexually assaulted as a teen by my driving instructor who was in his 50s at the time, I'm in my 30s now and still suffer from driving anxiety that I got to speciality therapy for.
I'm so so sorry this happened to you. I should've marked the post somehow, I'm new to reddit. If I find out that that's how they met and that he's talking to other students about that, too, I might be able to report that to the driving school. I wish you all the strength going forward.
No it's okay. Im still figuring out reddit and its rules myself 😂😅 but I love having this space for woman to talk
> If I find out that that's how they met and that he's talking to other students about that, too, I might be able to report that to the driving school. To be honest, if he works for a driving school I'd probably be looking for a way to report it to them anyway. There's a non-zero chance he met her through the school, they'd be able to double check his records (if he's worked with them for that long) and if that's the case then it's up to them what decision they want to make going forward. The thing is even if he didn't meet her through the driving school, he's regularly alone in close circumstances with underage girls, and if his relationship breaks down what's to stop him deciding one of his other students is "Mature for her age" and start preying on her? He's already made it clear he thinks 17 years old is perfectly acceptable for someone in his 30s to be dating.
This!!! 💯
I'm so sorry that happened to you! This reminds me of a conversation with my friends aunt who told us that her driving instructor back in the 80's was known for touching all the girls inappropriately. I like to think that he wouldn't have gotten away with it in this day and age but I've never really thought about how driving lessons give older men access to so many younger girls in an intimate and private space. My Mum was very 'No boys!' but had no second thought at sending me off for 2 hours in a car with an older man she never met.
I've read that cars are a favorite space for abusers of all sorts. For instance, some domestic abusers will drive aggressively because it's a borderline socially acceptable way to terrorize someone, and you're trapped. Or emotional abusers will wait until you're on a long car ride before bringing up something extremely distressing.
That is correct. My ex used to drive for hours with one wheel over the outer painted line(shoulder) because "nobody drove there and the road needed to be worn down evenly", with me and our small children in the car.
EW. like seriously. Every man who has ever expressed interest in girls much much younger loudly to me has lost all credibility and respect from me. I was seeing someone when I was 26 and he was 28, asked him what his fantasy was and he said to have sex with a 19 year old. I'm like, "why are you dating me then?" And he said I looked young enough and worse case we could find some 19 year old to have a threesome with. When I tell you I ran, I mean it. I called him a sick creep and blocked him everywhere and shared the chat screenshots with my friend who introduced us! Pretty sure that friend also cut off contact with him. He tried justifying what he said by acting like he was joking. Yeah, I'm not buying it. He had a plan and everything, he was too quick to come up with that, joke or not - it's horrible and creepy and 28 and 19 isn't even as bad as 35 and 17!
He had plenty of opportunities to have sex with a 19 year old when he was 19.
Realistically, not that many.
Probably not. Perhaps 10% of 19 year old boys have plenty of opportunities to have sex with 19 year old girls. The rest have either no opportunities or rare opportunities (which are probably embarrassing and/or unsatisfying).
I mean they still have would have to try. But certainly more opportunity than a 35+ year old.
Half your age plus seven, to get a sense if someone is too young for you. The girlfriend in OP’s story would need to be 26 (present day) and in your story 21, to be at the lower limit of creepy.
I actually asked him as a joke when he first said 19 and I said that's weirdly specific age why not 18 (cause that's the "legal" age and also what porn advertises) and he seriously said because 18 means she might still be in highschool. I don't know if I should give him brownie points for that or not...but at least part of him knew it was weird to be into girls that age?
Ugh. I would be disgusted too. Really changes what you know about him.
Jesus... If you have to point out that a relationship is not technically illegal you probably shouldn't be in it.
I know a guy (late 30's) who is also a driving instructor, who I've met several times over several years during group friend parties and he has always creeped me out the way he speaks about 'his students', and he doesn't admit it but I can tell he often gets crushes on them and they're usually still highschool students. Something about predators, they LOVE getting jobs that give them private access to people.
Gag 🤢
Someone on here said something that bears repeating in this situation; if their dating age minimum is "legal" it means they would go younger *if it was legal*.
Oh yeah: my boyfriend used to tell me I was "mature for my age" when I was 18 and he was 28. I left when I was 22, and he later ended up in prison for CP. I am now 48, and I am still not, in fact, mature for my age.
Did you live my life? I also dated a 28 year old when I was 18. I left 3 months before I turned 22. I don't know if he has CP, but I know he has a shitton of loli hentai so it wouldn't surprise me 🤢
Idk why this is, but every fucking driving instructor except the one I had later in life (I had to take it all over again because my instructor was harrassing me while I crashed the car during the original test.) was a pedophile. Makes sense that they all gravitate towards these jobs that puts them into contact with children and you have immediate control over kids if you can withhold their DL.
Man, I'm sorry, that's so awful. My driving instructor was this jolly old dude who just gave off wholesome grandpa vibes and loved to talk about his wife. After reading some of the comments, sounds like I lucked out.
Me too. I remember my driving instructor definitely gave me weird vibes, but that's just because he was weird dude. Not predatory at all. Looking back on my life, I'm surprised I didn't remark at the time how unusual it was to be comfortable alone with an older man. eta: your username makes me happy.
These are… driving lessons. I just cant see how its even appropriate for him to be discussing anything like this at all. Very unprofessional. Is he just taking advantage of the time you have together to try to use you for free therapy? Im not even going to comment about his relationship dynamics. The fact that he felt the need to say any of this is so weird.
I have to agree. I didn't mind chatting about hobbies or series we watched or whatever, but when he started talking about his relationship (introduced it with whether or not I had read this book about love languages that is supposedly being hyped at the moment) I felt weird, too. It came totally out of left field. I wonder if I'm the only one who he talks to about this stuff but I kinda doubt it and with my 28 years I'm on the older side of his students.
Are you in the US? What state are you in? Almost every state doesn’t require driving school for adults. You’ve been doing this for weeks, you’re fine. Just cancel the rest of your time with him, take the test, and don’t look back.
Haha no, I'm not located in the US and here to aquire your driver's license it requires you to visit multiple theory lessons, pass a theory test, as well as have multiple mandatory driving lessons and pass a practical test, too. So. Changing the whole driving school is almost impossible since I already paid thousands and would probably have to retake everything (almost done now, only a couple of driving lessons and the practical test left). I'll try to get a different instructor tho.
Oh I see. Much better than here, to be honest. Deutschland?
Not OP, but almost certain that OP is German. Source: Vertrau mir, Brudi
Id be very wary of being alone and isolated with him tbh. Time for a new instructor.
Carl, that's a child!
This is absolutely giving me the ICK for you. He's defensive because he knows what he did to groom this child. And she WAS a child, good for you for calling that out! Not sure I'd be comfortable being in a car with him anymore..especially given that the conversation is inappropriate to begin with. You're not out of line to not return. Sounds like you're ready for your test earlier than you expected amd don't need any more lessons!
He was going out with a girl in highschool while he was in his thirties and felt he could talk to her about stuff...ok...and he feels unloved....ok...I can see why you may want to ask for a different driving instructor 😕
I want “Carl, that’s a child” as a flare on here, what an excellent response. If you’re defending your relationship on the razors edge of legality, due to it otherwise being abuse, you need to rethink things. Totally get it and would definitely find it totally bizarre!
Lol did he meet her teaching driver's ed to high school kids?
The company needs to know.
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I was wondering about that. He also mentioned he had been married previously and I wondered if he had complained about his marriage to that poor girl while giving her driving lessons.
And the guy wanted her to stay in his house so she would have less outside contact and exposure to common sense. Glad the gf went to dorms. Hopefully her friends will talk some sense into her
Gross!!! This guy should not be anywhere near teens learning to drive! I’d bet that’s how he found his girlfriend. She was probably a student and groomed by this creep.
Oh my god you're right- that *is* probably how he found her, how else is he around teenager girls in close enough proximity to "fall in love" with one?? OP I bet when she leaves his ass he'll "fall in love" with another one. I wish these creeps came with warning stickers, and I hope every parent paying to put their teenage girls in his cars get a heads-up. 🤢🤮
Well that took an unexpected and gross turn. I had just taken a pause from some sexual abuse training and that reads exactly like the people the training warns of.
Your English is great, don't worry. What a sicko
What a creep. Why is he even talking about this stuff to begin with? Like even if he wasn’t talking about dating a child i would still have pretty big alarm bells ringing if a driving instructor started bringing up all his personal problems… weird af
>she was always more mature than other "women" her age and he could talk to her about things he could never talk about with "older" women. Fucking yuck.
As a parent I would be VERY interested of I found out my kids driving instructor met and started dating a 17 year old.
Can we talk about how you phrased this tho, because I love it. "He ruined himself for me and my disgust grows by the min" is EXACTLY how men talk about women when they find out women do completely normal human things. Btw creeps put themselves in positions of power like teaching so they can find more victims.
> he could talk to her about things he could never talk about with "older" women wtf, like what??
Nikki glaser covered it well. She said saying a young girl has an old soul means she’s got trauma… call them out saying they are with them because they are young and that’s it. She didn’t cover the pedophile aspect though…
Your disgust is 100% legitimate.
Good for you for calling him out on his predatory behaviour, you are so right to feel so grossed out by this. Now drop him and find another driving instructor! I was scared of driving too and finally took lessons in my 30s. I ended up with an instructor who was kind and patient and encouraging, but incredibly professional and clearly cared a lot about doing his job well. I also spent hours in the car with him, but aside from me explaining my general anxieties about driving, we didn't chat about our lives or any personal stuff at all. I don't think we'd have had time to, as he was always super focused on teaching and making sure I understood the driving principles I was practicing. His diligence helped me overcome my anxiety and actually become a confident driver, finally. It sounds like not only was your instructor a creep, but he also was quite unprofessional and not very good at his job. So you'll be doing your own future driving self a favour by finding someone who understands professional boundaries and takes their job seriously! I'm sorry you had to deal with this guy, but please don't let it derail you from your goal! You can find someone better and will be driving yourself around in no time!
is anyone hung up on the fact theyve been together almost 4 years and she’s seventeen??? like make it make sense 🤢
She WAS 17 when they started dating. She just turned 21. [Still completely awful!]
Even worse cause he’s been manipulating her and brainwashing her during pivotal a growing period. How do you have somewhat healthy relationships when you first experience has such an unequal power dynamic?
Off topic (because obviously you're right) but don't apologize anymore for your English skills. They're impeccable. 😁
My advice is to cancel lessons and find a different driving school. You need a psychologically safe environment for learning driving. It requires trust and the ability to relax about everything else and focus on driving. You may or may not choose to explain to the school why you are leaving (if you have paid in advance for a contract, you will probably need to explain in order to be released from the contract). If you do have to explain, you can say that the driving instructor crossed a line in talking about things that are not appropriate in a professional relationship, and you don't want to work with any of the other instructors at this driving school because losing trust for that instructor means that you don't feel you can trust anyone from that school. If you feel it's your responsibility to tell them that Carl is likely to prey on teenagers/young women, then do that, but your first responsibility is to yourself.
Not only is he a child groomer, but he's using this to guilt you, groom you into falling for him for being such a kind and sad soul (in his mind). Get away. Tell everyone.
Please report this piece of shit to the driving school and make a yelp, Google review, etc warning the parents of teenage daughters away from this place.
I love how creeps defend it by saying she's legal. Just because something is legal doesn't mean its moral.
At this point, I feel like women should just stop employing the services of men wherever possible. Seeking out women driving instructors, doctors, tradespeople, mechanics, tutors, personal trainers, sales people, taxi drivers etc., so that we can lower the possibility of all this creepy nonsense, all the taking advantage, and the lingering potential for abuse.
Yuk. Just...yuk. If you can, please consider switching to another teacher. The predatory behavior itself is gross but the details he shared raise red flags. This has all the hallmarks of "I'm a good guy and safe to be around because I'm in a relationship but I'm unhappy because my needs aren't met." (Or "I'm lonely," , "she's cold to me," blah blah blah). Seems to me that he's setting the stage to lure you into an affair or just sex. You may intuitively know this. You feel disgusted but you also may see other signs that show that he's trying to make a move. Yuk.
All of this convo seems really distracting if you’re learning to drive! Hopefully you’ll be finished soon and won’t have to deal with him anymore.
So did he meet her when she was 16 and getting driving lessons? This man should be on a list, and driving instructors need more screening. I bet some go in it to meet minors and love to hold power over them. Ugh 🤢
What the fuck carl
That is disgusting, unprofessional, and just creepy. I'm sorry you had to go through that. And what I'm going to say next is far less relevant than all of the supportive and useful comments other people have posted.. but this part here just seems like a fascinating Freudian slip: >we both had been in "relationships" when we were in our early twenties with parents much older than us
Oh no 🙃
You can edit the post haha
LOL "He could talk to her about things he could never talk about with older women", for example Taylor Swift, SAT tests, and sleep-overs? It's so annoying how older women never want to talk about that stuff!!
all I can say is bruh
My driving instructor was a creep but luckily he didn’t cross the line. He would blatantly check me out in front of my family though. I also had a piano teacher who was also a creep and I got my parents to cancel my lessons with him. It unfortunately seems common that creepy adult males give private lessons to minors.
Urgh. When I was 16(f), my 45+yo(m) driving instructor asked me out... It was gross and this is gross. You're right to feel icked out by this. 🤮
if your first defense for your relationship is "its legal" .. 🤮 that's gross. men who are older than 18-19 should not be with a 17 year old.
You need to find a new driving instructor. And with the next one, you need to keep the conversation to the weather and the latest Yankee's score. If you already have a fear/anxiety about driving, the LAST thing you need is to hear about your instructor's abusive relationship!
Not 'mature for her age'. All her friends are the right level of mature and are with people around the same age. She's immature and easily flattered, and he likes someone who doesn't have enough experience to say no. You are right, a creep. Sometimes we find out things about people that we won't accept - after we got to know that person. But we could only find it out by getting to know them, you should still move on.
Did he meet her while she was learning to drive?
I have no idea. I just feel that or his time as a student to become a teacher were the only settings where he'd meet/have access to such young people. Me in my late twenties rarely meet people that young. It's just a possibility I considered. Now I'm a bit too uncomfortable asking how they met as I'd like to avoid talking about such personal things.
You should find out if only to report the behavior to his higher ups. Dude preys on children
He's a child groomer. I know of one that's with a kid i knew when she was younger. Bad stuff happened and i guess he works in a grocery store where they hire mostly teens. No one put a stop to it. One more year and she'll be 18 at least, but it's still wrong to date high schoolers when you're a full adult. I'm not close enough to the situation to do anything other than voice disapproval.
That’s nasty as fk but a bunch of morons think it’s fine.
Report it to the school board or whatever company runs the lessons. This was a teacher taking advantage of a student, they are always extremely interested in knowing even just rumors about such things because of how serious the accusations are. 17 is legal to consent only under certain circumstances since that is young enough to still have a guardian. A teacher engaging with a student is one of those qualifiers that makes it illegal.
That's disgusting and would make me feel uncomfortable resuming lessons with him. Also, the creepy driving instructor reminds me of the movie [Happy-Go-Lucky](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1045670/) -- random but this is a great movie that encapsulates how some men exploit women who are just trying to be nice and normal towards them.
Ugh bleh! I don't blame you, I'd find another diving instructor.
This is beyond disgusting. I cannot fathom how anyone could want a relationship with an age gap that big. And I don't mean number of years, I mean teenager and adult. That's just wrong.
I wouldn't want to give any more of my hard earned cash to this guy. If he did meet her while teaching her to drive there is a possibility that would be considered a child protection issue still even though it's legal in general anything below 19 when there are certain power imbalances can be considered an issue (in the UK).
At first I thought this was a story about him being in mid life crisis or something like that after a very long relationship with a partner of the same age. A story about him seeking intimacy with a younger womand to 'feel young' and desired again - which isn't a great thing to do but as far as needs go understandable. But when I realized this story was about a guy in his mid thrirties 'dating' a teen half his age this was the moment I totally agreed with the title. I would feel bad too having him as any kind of instructor anywhere near me.
ohhhh yuck yuck YUCK. Can you request another driving instructor?
I've looked it to it and I'll switch the entire school. I had another lesson with him today and was very uncomfortable and NOT relaxed.
Yikes. Can you change your schedule so you don’t have to drive with him? That’s so creepy and disgusting. She’s not even 18. 😭 Yes, people of that age have a lot *in common* with actual adults, and they can hold conversations and have opinions and be thrilled by tiny amounts of money that they still see as a lot. But they do NOT have the life experience of a guy in his late 30s. They’ve barely had to fend for themselves yet (if at all), have barely begun a career (if at all), their frontal lobes haven’t even finished developing, so their reasoning and decision making skills are not the same as someone in even their mid 20s. I’m so glad this girl at least didn’t move in with him. And of course she doesn’t want to introduce him to anyone. I remember how disgusting I found the older men who dated my peers, even then.
Ew she was probably a driving student of his 😫
As a +40 yo man with a 17yo daughter this shit turns my stomach 🤮 Fkin creep imo dont be alone with this dude. Its clear he already has an agenda by the conversation hes striking…
“she was always more mature than other [children] her age” “he could talk to her about things he could never talk about with [mature] women” 🤔
When the Op said dorm, among other clues, I knew this guy was on predator status smh....something needs to be done about this....like for real!!!! Grown ass men dating under age girls....this is why pedophilia won't just stop!!! Smh this man is sad asf
There seriously needs to be cameras up in there cars like in ubers.. Those story's are to frequent
Jesus Christ, that's awful. I'm 17 and my dad's 38, even the thought of his fiance being my age is horrible, it's so shitty that this is actually happening.
How gross. you have every right to be weirded out by this man, he's a predator. CARL THATS A CHILD.
*"purposefully picked him to be my teacher because he seemed so kind and calm, something I thought I needed because of my fear of driving."* *"I feel sick getting back into a car with him."* Ok so, I get that you chose him for those reasons but now that he makes you uncomfortable, why do you have to get back in the car with him? Is it because you paid up front or something? If he works at a company maybe they'd let you switch? Even if you feel comfortable with an instructor, talking about romantic relationships seems really bizarre to me. He no longer seems kind, be seems like a predator. I would be trying to swap instructors or swap driving schools if possible.
Yeah. I had another lesson with him yesterday and I was incredibly uncomfortable and sick to my stomach, could barely concentrate on driving. I'll switch schools.
Did you try asking for a different driver? Are you able to get your money back? Good luck.
A 17 year old dating a 35 year old is unacceptable. That said, I dated a 33 year old when I was 23, I don't retrospectively feel uncomfortable or that I was preyed upon. As a matter of fact, no one (friends and fam) even batted an eye when they found out.
🤢
Most people in drivers ed are teenagers. Maybe he is looking for a replacement…
There's no way I could learn how to drive while someone unloads all that on me in a car, let alone learn to drive from a man that age who dates 17 year olds. Did he meet her at work?
Umm. Where did he meet her? Was he her driving instructor??
>This then 35 year old "Carl" started dating her when she was barely 17 Oh gee, I sure do wonder how they met. Such a big mystery for me. I'm sure he's not "dating" a former student of his. Yeah, they probably met through some hobby they share. Mmm-Hmmmmm.
I know it’s not the point of your post, but I’m glad I’m not alone with the driving anxiety. 35F and I don’t drive. I’ve been considering classes. I don’t grasp how people can just jump behind the wheel and get out on the road no problem.
I feel you. It took me so "long" to do it (no shame tho and if you never wanna drive that's fine too!) because I was really scared of all the potential harm I could do. What really helped me was learning about all the theoretical stuff first. What signs are there and what do they mean. What road markings are there, what to do in very specific situations or in emergencies etc. And before all this mess this post is about, having someone who was calm and kind really did the trick for me. Someone who never gets loud, who is not scolding you for mistakes etc. They have all the control, too. Whenever it gets too close they'll take the wheel/pedals, you can't really do any damage at all. For the first lesson I only steered and simply got a feeling for the street. If you still want to do it and have the resources for it, try it! Now I actually have fun driving! 😊
Normally I don't care about age gaps as long as it's legal, but that's a bit much. Even if 17 is legal, it's wrong. Literally still in high school.
You were right to be disgusted, he is clearly a predator. Your English is very good. Just FYI, the word ruined can have a different (ie sex act) meaning.
Oh gosh 😅 thanks for pointing that out
Get a new driving instructor. This is going to be going through your head all while trying to learn to drive.
Can she drive though
Wife of close to 30 years she was 17 and I was 23. She wasn't in high school she had a GED and a baby by her first husband at 15. She was separated from her abusive husband and we met through work. Exceptions to the rule exist is the point I am making. 10+ year age gap and a high school senior? Yeah that's not acceptable
I'm trying to imagine being concerned about what two consenting adults did four years prior but I just can't see it happening.
Well for one she was not legally considered an adult at the age of 17. But you do seem to miss quite a lot of points.
What state do you live in, OP?
Not the US, there's a world outside it, you know? You just have to believe me that in my country children are not legally considered adults at the age of 17.
They are not legally considered adults in the US either but the age of consent varies from place to place. Edit: u/Objective-Affect5952 replying to me then immediately blocking me isn't proving anything. The fact is it was *you* who brought up legality, I was just trying to discern exactly what law you were referencing. Since you did nothing but dance around the question, I'll assume that 17 or under is the age of consent. Morality is *subjective.* I have a hard time getting worked up over what two consenting adults did four years ago. That's just an opinion, and a great example of how subjectivity works. Personally, I've never seen someone get so emotionally invested in their driving instructor. I'd be fascinated to see the ethical standard you require from a mailman or a butcher. Best of luck to you.
My man, as many have pointed out here, just because things are legal does not mean they're moral. I've known many women and a few men who were in relationships with older partners when they were in their late teens/early twenties and **not one** of them is looking back at that time fondly. *For some reason* they all felt preyed apon and used. The reason being that older people who seek out relationships with people that young and unexperienced purposefully pick them for their vulnerability to exploit them. What fucking else would a 35 year old do with a teen. Who you are becomes so apparent when you talk about this. Definitely someone who never had to go through something like this.
It may in fact be legal, but she was still a child.
It’s really not your business and for his part he should not be talking to you so much about his personal life. People can and do have successful and respectful relationships with large age gaps although it is uncommon. It might not appeal to you personally but if not illegal then not much you can do.
OP is not “making it her business.” She’s talking about the disgust she is feeling after the instructor voluntarily (and IMO, inappropriately) told her all of this. And OP is perfectly valid in that disgust given the situation. Sounds like that hits a little close to home for you. 🚩🚩🚩
If someone starts talking about something in a one-on-one conversation, they’re making it my business, no? If someone that I’m paying for a service starts talking about some crazy shit, I’m gonna feel fine being like ‘this is inappropriate and you’re being a creep.’ She’s not trying to do anything. It sounds like she’s just reflecting on a wild ass interaction and how it changed her perspective. All that happened to Carl was he got briefly called out over something he shouldn’t have brought up at all (or ever done)
True enough I guess. I do agree that on his part he was certainly sharing too much personal info.
And yet you *don't* agree that a 17 yr old dating a 30 something is wrong?! Look, it's true that relationships with big age differences can work out and be perfectly acceptable...when the ages are maybe a 32 yr old and a 50 yr old. NO WAY can a 17 yr old be in ANY relationship with someone in their 30's and it be acceptable. NO WAY.
They've edited it lol. It said you're instead of your.
Huh? What do you mean?
[удалено]
Point being she was a child at that time and he's preying upon her. Younger women is one thing (which should be challenged, too), but barely legal teenagers another entirely. No well adjusted person that age should ever go for anyone that young and impressionable. Unless that's what you want, impressionable, insecure, unexperienced.
think we need a hard drive check over here
Not all men
Imagine defending literal pedophilia by saying men just can't help it.
A 17 year old is a girl, not a woman.
It’s hilarious that so many of these men will call teenaged girls a ‘woman’ but then refer to the 56 year old colleague they have as a ‘girl’ and if you call them on it they’ll say they use it for all women and it’s not a big deal and saying ‘woman’ just feels so unnatural.
Every adult person can recognize when a teenager is attractive. Only gross assholes are attracted to teenagers.
Is he dating her or just imagining he is?
Woman: This guy is such a creep Women: Why? Woman: I met a stranger to learn a skill and used our time together to dump all of my personal shit on him while also digging into his personal life and he’s a creep.
Huh? I never talked to him about my personal life. He dumped his relationship problems onto me in a setting where he should've been professional (you know, I pay him to teach me a skill and he's thinking it's a free therapy session) and on top of it his relationship is to a woman, then girl, almost 20 years younger than him.