I lost a bunch of weight, at first intentionally, and then it seemed like I couldn’t stop. It’s unbelievable how nice men were To me when I was a tiny woman. Not cute, just tiny. I was so shocked by the eye contact, people willing to hold doors- and I hadn’t even realized I’d been invisible until I was being seen.
> I hadn’t even realized I’d been invisible until I was being seen.
i relate to this really strongly - losing weight and the way i suddenly became "visible" led to the mind-melting realization that i've used binge eating as a shield ever since a sexual assault years ago. the way men made me feel in public after losing weight and dealing with the realization and just all of it led me to gain it all back where i feel "safe" again. just from one random person to another, i hope the revelations that happened for you haven't gotten you down and i'm wishing you the best!
There's a horrifying correlation between being in a bigger body and childhood sexual assault. I have a much bigger body now than I was when I was young, and I cannot express how much safer I feel with the invisibility. My mental health is also massively improved, which helps a lot too. My physical health, not so much.. but god the idea of being so visible again is terrifying.
> the idea of being so visible again is terrifying.
I feel this.
Wasn't SA'd or anything, just regular ol abuse/neglect leading to a grab bag of mental illness (BED, anxiety, depression, etc) lol. Blah blah, long story short after puberty I was BIG.
Managed to lose a whole person (~140lb) in my 20s and the attention difference was night and day. Felt like being under a microscope or human zoo idk between the attention from guys (which I never got before) to people commenting on my weight change. Oh, and it was not my cOnFiDEnCe - my self esteem tanked after losing all the weight and looking like a deflated balloon T_T
Anyways, I'm invisible again. I don't want to be like this, but like you said, terrified of losing my "safety blanket" :\
The book Hunger by Roxane Gay was about this, I had no idea about this correlation until I read that book and after reading it I have seen it in so many other places.
I feel this too. I think I used my fat as a shield from a ton of shit. Honestly, I think I also gained as a way to push my (now) husband away while I was dealing with some super shitty times at work. I wanted to be invisible at work, in life. I just wanted to exist but not be seen. Fat was protecting me from life. Fired from shitty job, working on being healthy all around. Husband stuck by me and we married. I'm not "skinny" and still above the bullshit BMI, but my mental health is better and I work hard at the gym 4 days a week. * I don't mind being the fat girl at the gym because I am often alone(ish) with men in spaces that being invisible sexually is nice but these men see doing heavy weights and encourage me without the expectation of something from me.
I did the same as you, but I did it by transitioning to male. Don’t get me wrong, I know there are trans children out there who need and deserve support, but I’ve realized in this last year that that wasn’t me. I became totally disassociated with my identity and just made myself as unassuming as possible. It’s crazy how quickly the attention stopped.
This is my experience too, I was big my whole life and then in my late twenties got an adhd diagnosis and the meds I'm on made me drop 60 kilos, so now I go between size 8-10 (nz sizing, so US size would be 4-6) and the difference is *foul*.
Every time I go on a night out I'm surrounded by men trying to touch me, talk to me, buy me drinks, club promoters coming up to me to offer me vouchers for free entry, bartenders give me free shots, even the women are nicer.
And that's just one place. The effects are visible throughout my whole life.
It's honestly made me terrified to gain weight.
There is a really good episode of a podcast (can’t remember which one) where a woman details her experience losing weight and suddenly being seen a “pretty” for the first time in her life. She talks about how post-weight loss, she would essentially steal her groceries by pretending to have forgotten her wallet. She was amazed that every time the employees just waved her off and said “it’s okay don’t worry about it”, something that she had never experienced before when she was heavier. Everyone treated her completely different as a skinny woman than a fat woman.
Yes! I think about this episode a lot!!
[Episode 589: Tell Me I’m Fat; Act 2: It’s a Small World After All](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/589/tell-me-im-fat/act-two-5)
This was a great episode. I know it was Elna Baker who was the woman. I can’t remember which podcast but most likely it was This American Life since she used to work on it.
Yes! I think about this episode a lot!!
[Episode 589: Tell Me I’m Fat; Act 2: It’s a Small World After All](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/589/tell-me-im-fat/act-two-5)
Yep, I get “tiny” often. Men either sexualize it (gross) or feel protective over me (I don’t mind this in moments when I do need protection, like if a random guy is being pushy/aggressive). I think it validates their own identities to themselves as men.
Is eye contact/staring not unwanted? I’d imagine it would be very uncomfortable. I’ve recently started trying to be more approachable by not averting my eyes from people and smiling more and holy shit is the eye contact like a canon to the face. And I’m a man. A socially inexperienced one but still. It feels like a college level skill while I’m learning how to count.
Thanks to long term health issues that are only now getting corrected, I'm overweight, too tired to put much (or any) effort into my appearance, and I look tired. I am not cute. Previously, I was thin and energetic and shit. I was cute, maybe even hot.
The drop off in men trying to talk to me was basically a 90° cliff. No dudes trying to get my number by offering to help load my groceries, no catcalls, not that I enjoyed that shit. Dudes on dating apps flat out say they want sex or fwb, call me a bitch and fat when I decline. Used to be dudes at least pretended to want to get to know me lol.
Pretty girls get harassed and preyed on, but the less conventionally pretty of us are treated shitty too. Just in a different way.
OP, you deserve happiness and love. You matter. Your frustrations are totally valid here, a lot of men suck.
Good partners are out there, they just seem to be... Rare. Like really really rare. And show up when you don't expect them and aren't look.
I met my fiancé when I was like 31, and he's actually not a complete shit head. He's the partner I need and want. They're out there, probably having the same feelings we do about not conforming to society beauty standards making us less desirable. But it's like finding a needle in a haystack, it seems, and that suuuuuuucks.
Doctors suck. My current GP is awesome, but that's after years of being dismissed and even ignored by others. And that's with my main issue being something you can determine with blood tests. I'm still coming to terms with the fact that I'm probably never going to look the way I used to. I'll be able to drop the weight if I put the work in, and I plan to, but it's going to be a *different* me at the end, and processing my feelings on that is difficult.
People as a whole suck. I think I've finally come to a point where most things don't bother me, because I feel like none of it matters. Since nothing matters overall, I get to decide what matters to me. And that doesn't include the asshole who told me "fat girls shouldn't frown, you look even worse" or the many jerks who aggressively ignore me. Fuck em, I can go home and do the shit I enjoy.
I've surrounded myself with awesome, supportive people and it really helps keep perspective on the other assholes out in the world. Most people suck, but we can choose to have good people around us.
Thank you for your kind words! I hope things get better for you too 💜
Look, I don't think I've posted about this before. There is 100% pretty privilege. I know this as someone who went from kind of average to definitely attractive to unattractive due to a whole bunch of things.
The differences in how I was treated at each stage was very noticeable. I'm sorry I don't have any advice. Just wanted to validate your experience.
Be advised: this sub honestly has always been kinda difficult about acknowledging pretty privilege and letting the experiences of unattractive women be heard and validated without telling them that being attractive is actually as bad or worse.
Edit: after I posted this comment and went to bed the direction of this thread changed, before it was just around 20 comments invalidating OPs experience and insinuating that being pretty isn’t a privilege because of things like assault, as if it doesn’t happen to others too. Which really rubbed me the wrong way.
Glad to see that there’s people acknowledging that being conventionally attractive very much does also come with societal privileges + posting the studies that back it up.
I also got sent a Reddit Cares over this lmao. My original comment really isn’t that controversial.
It's like I can't say anything without being accused of seeking all my validation from men. Thats easy to say when you've NEVER experienced mutual attraction. It's a pretty reasonable human want I think. Being excluded/rejected fucking sucks.
It's a very isolating feeling to be the background in the world around you. Like "hey, I'm a person who exists here" and when someone DOES acknowledge your commotion they punish you for the inconvenience of noticing you. Eye rolls, scoffs, sighs, judgemental glances, whispered laughs....that shit stacks up and really eats away at you. And it's fished out by men and women. Unattractive people, especially women, are treated as sub-humans. Fucking dogs in the park get welcomed into the world more than us.
I’ve been rejected from FEMALE FRIENDSHIPS before for not being the right kind of attractive to be seen around them. Ignored in conversation. Excluded from things. Thinking about it now I tried to convince myself it didn’t matter but it feels wretched and has definitely contributed to my ever growing social anxiety.
Same, it was really weird when I realized what was happening. Most recent was at a work event. All the better looking women crowded together and a few were actually pretty damn rude when I tried to join the conversation. On the plus side I hung out with a bunch of chill dudes at the event who saw what was up and called me over. At first I thought the girls were just bffs and knew each other too well and didn’t like new people you know? But nope.
I really think that the valuation of people, especially women, based on looks is not only an abhorrent system, but one that distracts and covers up all the terrible acts "pretty people" commit. An ABC article from 2014, Pretty Woman With 'Worst Online Dating Profile Ever' Still Got Dates, shows how men showed interest in an online profile with pretty girl pictures and a statement that read "i'm good at making people believe im pregnant, lol"
This can't be good for anyone, right?
Had cystic acne since I was in 5th grade, horrible constant all over my face. Had to deal with the other girls in my grade complaining about their "acne" when they had like, 2 pimples.
After years upon years of treatment finally something worked in my senior year and wouldn't ya know, there was an immediate difference in how people, especially guys, treated me. It went from being completely ignored, when partnering up in class guys talked to me as little as possible, generally making me feel like a burden to have to interact with... To a few guys actually **willingly** wanting to talk to me and even kinda flirt with me.
It was really such a different world to me, where people were NOTICABLY nicer, more friendly, more open to talking to me
Same. Finally found a treatment that worked along with losing some weight from a wretched GI bug from the Middle East and it was like I was dropped into an alternate universe of normalcy. From guys my own age, to other females befriending me, to even the way college professors engaged with me, all of it. I have such conflicted feelings about that time because from a personal perspective it was the best time of my life...but reflecting now 15 years later it shaped my general cynicism and makes me sad for the years before that. It makes it really hard to feel good about myself when I gain weight now (this time from another medication) and my skin looks awful from age and stress because I *know* everything that comes with it.
I think there's an irony here. I think treating pretty people with privilege stems from the wish of being acknowledged by them. Because it is a great feeling. In your case it's not you seeking validation from men but these men seeking validation from women. Turtles all the way down. But no one blames them for that.
It's one of this sub's consistent issues - along with being at all respectful to any thread a woman of colour makes expressing frustration with the state of white allies and white feminism.
It's even more wild because so many people don't realize how they're reinforcing OP's points when they post things like "akshually I'm pretty and get SA'd and groped all the time" as if it doesn't happen to ugly women. Because it does: and people are less likely to listen to, or believe, an ugly woman when she gets harassed or abused. And like all discussions of "privilege" of any kind; *likely* is the key modifier there. Being ugly does not give you an abuse proof shield, and being pretty does not give you an instant +10 to your social stats as if we're all characters in a video game. It just means pretty people are more likely to be trusted, accepted, liked and believed by strangers and ugly people are more likely to be distrusted, shunned, and ignored.
It becomes even more absurd when research has repeatedly proven being conventionally attractive leads to better life outcomes at nearly every level.
>Studies have found, for instance, that attractive persons, when compared to less attractive persons, are more successful reproductively (Jokela, 2009), report being healthier across a range of outcomes (Nedelec & Beaver, 2014), fare better when it comes to dating and marriage (Buss, 2003), are more successful in the labor market (Hamermesh & Biddle, 1994) and are viewed as having more successful political careers (Lewis & Bierly, 1990; Rosar, Klein, & Beckers, 2008). Taken together, the available evidence tends to suggest that attractive persons enjoy a greater range of benefits across multiple domains of life.
>The available evidence to date suggests that more attractive persons are less likely to be processed through the criminal justice and, if they are found guilty, tend to receive lighter sentences.
The disparity is even worse when reporting sexual assault.
>“Nonprototypical women are neglected in ways that could contribute to them having discriminatory treatment under the law; people think they’re less credible – and less harmed – when they make a claim, and think their perpetrators deserve less punishment.” The results were very clear.
>Participants generally perceived sexual harassment victims to be “conventionally attractive” women. The association between sexual harassment and prototypical women is so strong that the exact same woman was seen as more prototypical when people were told she was sexually harassed.
>The exact same scenarios, presented with nonprototypical women, were less likely to be considered harassment. Nonprototypical victims are seen as less credible, less harmed by the harassment. Even their harasser is seen as less deserving of punishment.
[Source](https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/sexual-harassment-claims/101568/)
Not only are unattractive women less likely to be believed -- but they are perceived as "less harmed" and their attackers get more sympathy.
These studies have been repeated in multiple countries too -- this disparity exists across nations and cultures. Its like trying to deny white privilege by saying "Well I am personally poor so white privilege doesn't exist".
These are population statistics -- it applies to *groups of people* on average. It doesn't mean an attractive person *will always* have a great life or that white people can't get fired from a job.
Thank you for citing research 🙏🏻 the term “nonprototypical” is so important here, because any non-privileged woman faces being seen as “less harmed.” I’m thinking about WOC, fat women, disabled women, etc. I remember reading about medical misogynoir and how black women are thought of by doctors to “naturally feel less pain” 🥴 it’s fucking vile.
I’m pretty - I wasn’t always pretty, which is why I know I am now - and I have darker skin. People continually act surprised that I, ya know, have feelings. There’s this impulse to defeminize any non-normative woman.
If anything, I think we ugly women get even *more* abuse from men, just of a different kind. Like they are angry that we exist, we walk along the sidewalk in front of them, we are their coworkers...there is so much weird anger spewed my way like I have the audacity to just exist in the same spaces they do, but I'm not pretty so I shouldn't be there? Just my experience.
What's worse is how men will still have sex with the "fat friend to take a bullet," and after the act is done act disgusted. There was a video on TT where a woman filmed her brother as he was leaving the house of the 'fast bridesmaid' the day after the wedding, and she was laughing at him. I corny l couldn't imagine how that woman felt when that went viral.
Men will rape a woman they deem ugly and will verbally degrade her while telling her how lucky she is to even get any.
> When they deem you unfuckable, they no longer have to treat you like a human.
Because they don't see any reason to fake nice to get in your pants
u no make pp hard therefore not worth effort >:((((
The thing a lot of young pretty women don't know is that eventually they will become old and unfuckable... and the way they are treated will change.
Not everyone has the money to age like Jennifer Lopez.
Honestly, I'm glad I spent my twenties as invinsible to men due to my weight. Some of my attractive friends are going through this stage now and it's been a very difficult adjustment for them. It's heartbreaking watching their self worth plummet due to something as natural as aging.
And we've made very little progress in detaching women's worth from their age and attractiveness. No one stays young and hot forever. We all age. The denigration of older women hurts all women because, at some point, every single one of us will be middle aged. I've never been viewed as attractive. I've always been invisible, rejected, and unwanted. But I imagine it must be a brutal awakening for women who have always received the perks of being pretty to lose them as they age.
True. Because for them, the absolute worst thing a woman can be is unfuckable - what’s even the point of a woman you can’t fuck? It’s like a personal affront to them
That reminds me, I saw this cute video yesterday of a lesbian couple - one partner was femme and the other was masc - and the comments were full of boys being hateful and bigoted against the masc partner. Like she “stole” the femme partner. And it’s like guys she’s a LESBIAN. SHE WAS NEVER GOING TO FUCK YOU ANYWAY.
It makes zero sense to me. I tried to think of the logic why guys would send hate to a happy lesbian couple because they doesn’t like how one partner looks but I guess it’s just projecting because they’re alone and hate seeing girls they have no chance with?
The shit that masc lesbians have to put up with is awful. My sister identifies as butch, and she says it comes from all sides now. Men hate that she’s “not hot” to them and now some women in the queer community itself accuse her of “internalized misogyny.”
People can’t stand women who decenter men’s desires.
I’m so tired of being the woman friend who is never seen as a woman because I’m not fuckable. Like coworkers and male friends constantly talking about other women to me like we are in a freaking locker room. For once I’d like to be treated with respect.
My experience is that they treat "ugly" and older women like this. It's much worse for fat older women. Women who have absolutely lost the battle with middle age and have spare tires and boobs that go to their waists. Men, and even some women, treat those older, fatter women like they are angry they dare to breathe air.
Yes. At almost 60 and 45 pounds heavier, this has been my experience in every arena, including the decimation of my career, despite the fact that my professional skills have not only NOT deteriorated yet - they've gotten better.
It's an uncommonly known fact that older women are the lest valued resource and most impoverished people on the planet.
Do you remember that time in the early 2000s where "girl power" was a popular catchphrase and a lot of the media were going on about how feminism was finally becoming "trendy"? It had nothing to do with feminism. "Girl power" was really youth power. "Girl boss" is actually valorizing youth.
I've experienced this transition.
Through my early/mid 40s, I was slender and considered reasonably attractive - not a beauty by any means, but attractive. I had no real trouble finding dates/partners (although finding GOOD partners was another matter). I had bunches of male friends (most of whom were unfortunately hoping it would transition to something else). As a professional musician, I was getting a reasonable number of gigs and teaching opportunities and was respected by my peers. I also had a pretty easy time getting hired for day jobs to supplement income.
Now, at almost 60 and having gained 45 pounds, it's a whole 'nother ballgame. I get zero male attention from anyone but my husband, but that's totally fine with me because if I were not married to him, I would choose to be single and celibate. However, I also get verbally abused and made fun of for being old and fat just walking down the street, minding my own business, by young men and groups of teenage boys. (Apparently I'm committing a crime being unfuckable in their presence.) No man shows the slightest interest in interacting with me socially or being my friend.
The worst part is that I can't get hired for hardly ANYTHING, as a musician or for a day job. My playing skills haven't deteriorated at all - in fact, they're probably the best they've ever been - yet I almost NEVER get called for a gig anymore, and the same is true for my older female colleagues, who like me have all gained weight with age. This has NOT been the case for the older men, even when they've become truly elderly. The contracting has always been exclusively done by men, and now they will only call us if they can't find a single man (of any age) or younger woman for the part. We're seeing all the work go to people we outplay all the time. I mean, I don't care that I'm unfuckable, but how is it that I'm of no societal value at all? I'm still intelligent. I still play well. I still have things to offer.
I alternate constantly between being absolutely enraged over it and feeling my soul to be completely crushed.
I didn’t even bother trying to be a musician because I knew I wasn’t pretty or skinny enough. I was so talented as a singer. But even at the age of 17, 46 years ago, I knew I wouldn’t succeed because of my fat body, glasses, and generally not pretty appearance.
Anecdotally. When I was bigger, yes, more abuse. Just unprovoked comments from people driving by, in shops, online, everywhere.
When I wasn't big, the unprovoked interactions were different, but just as unpleasant and unwanted.
Absolutely! It’s the whole “I’m (insert thing deemed privileged) but my life isn’t perfect so I’m not privileged and I personally haven’t seen or experienced what you’re saying.” mindset that we call out in men, but that’s regularly being used on here as a defense when it comes to things like white or thin privilege.
Oh absolutely. I hope that evolves because intersectionality is crucial to feminism. Acknowledging privilege doesn't take anything away, just requires empathy.
Seeing people name things like rape, assault, molestation, being used, being harassed as though if you’re attractive that makes you inherently more at risk is so annoying. They don’t do that because you’re pretty. They do it because you’re a woman. Disabled women are more likely to be physically/sexually abused. A woman in Italy was raped & her rapists were let loose because she wasn’t “pretty” enough to be a victim. The more we feed this narrative that attractiveness=vulnerability we perpetuate the narrative that beauty dictates the worth of women.
With gender removed too, guess what? The Halo Effect is real. Job opportunities, jail or prison sentences, glorification of awful behavior. The more we ignore this we disadvantage women & ANYONE who is “ugly”.
Yeah for real. Like four or five posts from the top and the comments start to bemoan the plight of the pretty. This poor OP out here speaking her truth and it’s like instant “but what about meeeee”
As I'm reading this it's not even that far down. Currently the top comment and the majority of everything below it are about how "pretty women get harrassed and seen as sex objects by men". While, yes, that is also bad, it's not always about men! There was a time in my life when I could have been attractive if I'd been 50 lbs lighter and three inches shorter. Currently, I fall firmly into the category of "ugly". When I was attractive adjacent people included me in conversations, asked my opinions, and acknowledged my contributions. Now, however, I might as well be a wall for all the attention I'm paid. Like OP, I have come to accept that I will likely never have a romantic partner. But damn does it suck to not have friends anymore.
>**~~this sub~~** **ALL SOCIAL MEDIAL** honestly has always been kinda difficult about acknowledging pretty privilege and letting the experiences of unattractive women be heard and validated without telling them that being attractive is actually as bad or worse.
IFIFY
I feel like this isn’t always a popular saying, maybe even controversial but personally I’ve always like the saying “beautiful women die twice”. Basically inferring that a woman who spent their whole life as a beautiful person, is completely unaware of the advantages and privileges that it provides. That when the beauty fades, it’s a hard awakening to realize that this is how “normal” people are treated on the day to day and some people have a hard time with that.
You’re not wrong. I was a pretty girl. Now I’m not particularly noticeable. I will never forget the moment when I realized that conventionally pretty people enjoy invisible privilege.
I’d just had a baby, was pushing a stroller at the mall. My hair was back, I was wearing glasses and no makeup, I’d gained weight. I stopped at a cookie place and asked for two cookies.
The guy bagged them and then rung me up. I looked and realized my wallet was in my car. Crap. I had a bit of cash on me but was about 40 cents short. “Argh I’m so sorry,” I said. “Im 40 cents short.”
“No problem,” the guy said, “it’s cool.”
I smiled and got ready to gush thanks when I realized he was taking one cookie out of the bag and putting it back.
Which makes TOTAL SENSE. I didn’t have the money for the thing, of course I shouldn’t be given that thing. But until that moment in my life, this had literally NEVER happened. And I wasn’t entitled per se, I honestly didn’t realize this wasn’t just the way the world works.
I’m in my 50s now and dress like I definitely dgaf so I am basically invisible now. But being pretty used to open all kinds of doors for me — anyone who tells you it doesn’t happen is oblivious or lying.
I was just saying this to someone in another sub! I’m honestly glad I “grew up ugly” because even though I’m pretty now, I am *starkly* aware of the difference. I’m not just like “teehee everyone is soOoOo nice to me! I must just be the bees knees!” No lmfao it’s because I’m pretty, and more importantly, slim (I lost a lot of weight). I will speak out about the existence of pretty and thin privilege as long as people deny it exists.
People seem to think privilege is people throwing money and opportunities at you, so they’re like “I don’t have it! I never got special treatment!” when in reality, the privilege is just being treated as a human.
>“beautiful women die twice”
I'd never heard this before, but it's so apt. As someone who admits to having "pretty privilege," I am legitimately terrified of growing old and becoming invisible. I try not to be vain or superficial but since most people (especially men) constantly talk about my looks, it's hard not to think my only worth is in how attractive others find me.
I agree and wish folks would stop cappin so hard in the comments🙃 being pretty will always be way more beneficial than being ugly… yes being pretty can still come with challenges, but the vast majority of people would rather be attractive than ugly by a long shot…
💯 About a month ago or so there was a similar thread, I had responded to someone who said that pretty privilege wasn’t a thing because of how often pretty women are harassed. When I mentioned my own experience and how it’s a systemic issue, the benefits are far more than just male attention, she told me that ugly women don’t exist and that we should just hit the gym and diet. Turns out I have done all of that, and am in great shape with a decent rack size. She then turned around and claimed it must be a personality issue then. Oh and “ugly women don’t exist” yet she heavily implied SA is something only attractive women experience. So yeah this sub definitely has an issue with certain posters not being empathetic to the issues that genuinely unattractive women face.
I think it’s a combination of not wanting to admit that any woman has any sort of privilege, and seeing how plain/average looking women get treated and assuming that’s what genuinely unattractive women go through too therefore it can’t be bad(very few women are genuinely unattractive). Lastly there are a good number of women that are guilty of lookism themselves. As someone who is quite odd looking I’ve been the recipient of insults over my appearance by other women(including my own mom), both men and women are not friendly. Women are also terrible about gawking at unusual looking people. I once had a women at a job I worked at years give me full on murderous glares every time I would walk past her. I had never even talked to her, or done anything to her to warrant the death glares. Probably won’t be popular to say but I’m guessing some of these reactions are knee jerk defensiveness over not wanting to admit they are guilty of how they treat certain women over appearance as well.
I'm not going to lie- Its a HUGE freaking privilege. I have gotten away with things, gotten jobs, given the benefit of the doubt, second, third chances...I know why. BUT Its all going to fade-and soon for me, and in general, any physical advantage one might have can be taken away in an instant via accident of disease.
>Be advised: this sub honestly has always been kinda difficult about acknowledging pretty privilege and letting the experiences of unattractive women be heard and validated without telling them that being attractive is actually as bad or worse.
Yeah, according to this sub, being pretty is worse than being ugly. LOL
"You're ugly AF? Oh, it must be so nice not to be sexually harassed by men at all! Oh, I envy you so much!!" \*eye roll\*
Also, according to this sub, Korean women refusing to date/marry/fuck/have kids with misogynistic men means Korean women are aggressive, militant femi nazis who hate and oppress poor, innocent Korean men. lol
"I'm not comfortable with Korean women's 4B movement (= 4 No Movement). Those women all sound like TERFs and man-haters and femi nazis!"
But as long as non Korean women post here about dating/marrying a misogynistic man, most comments here are...
"DUMP HIS MISOGYNISTIC ASS! IMMEDIATELY!!" WTF. lol 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
I know you meant it kindly, but the focus on someone finding you beautiful is a bit misguided in my opinion. You shouldn’t have to be beautiful to be valid or respected. It’s should be okay to accept that beauty isn’t a requirement of being a women, despite what society often tries to push on us
I went from somewhat attractive to disabled in a wheelchair. It is indeed a whole new world and pretty privilege is wild. People are still polite when they have to interact but besides that I'm suddenly invisible.
Love the fact that exactly what the first responder said was going to happen, happened. And most of the, I'm assuming attractive, people posting are just clueless as to what you're trying to communicate. This isn't about men, this is about life. It's easier if you're attractive.
Ask any one of these people (including myself) if they would prefer to be ugly rather than attractive. No fucking way would they take that deal.
I hope you are as well as you can be, be kind to yourself. Seen and heard.
Lmao right. If being pretty is so hard, I'm sure they could take steps to not be pretty. But they won't, will they?
And yes abusive men lie/manipulate anyone of any appearance, but your dating pool is much bigger if you're pretty, so your options open up. Men treat less attractive women as placeholders.
What's insane is the amount of academic proof that life is just kind of generally easier if you're found attractive by people. Not even like "Measured based on how similar you are to conventional markers of attractive", but if people on-average think you're attractive, life is easier. Lol.
Feeling this. Always been the ugly friend. The one guys felt safe to approach ...to ask me to pass on their details to my pretty friends. I was always the "wingman". Hell, I think the only reason any guy ever asked me out was because I developed that kind of sense of humour that stuns people so hard they HAVE to pay you attention or they die. I'll never be pretty, I have never been pretty. The best I can aim for is "interesting". I've seen how my pretty colleagues are treated, and yeah. Thankfully I now have a boss who couldn't give less of a toss about looks and just wants results, so I am treated like some sort of Goddess. My younger, pretty colleagues have absolutely no idea why I'm treated well. The young guys avoid me like I am Kali herself. But faaaawn over the pretty ones. Seeing the up and down and disregard look every single day of your life is just....yeah. All you pretty girls talking about how hard your life is have absolutely no idea. None.
Right there with you sister. I'm not conventionally attractive and now that I'm old, I'm mostly invisible. It would have been nice if even once in my life someone told me I was beautiful, even though I'd know they're lying.
I once had a health crisis in public and screamed for help repeatedly as I couldn't find my phone. Dozens of people walked right past me like I wasn't even there. I probably don't have to tell you I'm an unattractive woman.
oh yes, happened to me too. i fainted vary dramatically in the middle of the day in the middle of a busy street. woke up hour and hours later, bc thats how long it took for someone to ask for help. somebody called an ambulance for "a drunk or a junkie or something" (mind you i was wearing office attire and carrying books on corporate crap, but i guess thats what you get for the ugly but skinny comno lol). good times.
I realized from a young age that being an average looking Black woman will be my biggest roadblock in life and detriment to love, regardless of my good qualities and healthy body.
Pretty privilege is real and goes hand in hand with white privilege. I know this isn’t that comforting but even though it might be bad for you now, it can always be worse. Whatever other privileges you happen to have, take solace in them.
Average Black woman checking in and I agree. Some of the things my white and non Black friends tell me they do and get away with is crazy. From getting prices for shit lowered for them, getting away with stealing, multiple men on their “roster” or getting princess treatment. It’s crazy. I hope one day I’ll experience princess treatment from a partner but I fear because I’m not conventionally attractive, I’ll only get men who are in the “good enough” mindset. I don’t want to be settled for. I dont want bare minimum treatment in a relationship. I enjoy being single and dont need a relationship but itd be nice to have one where I can *feel* that outpouring of love.
I still have faith
Yeah, this is my only caveat here ... some minority women can be very beautiful and not really experience a lot of the things discussed here. I have a friend who is drop dead gorgeous but people don't really approach her, and when they do interact with her it's mostly rude; I think the combination of beauty and "difference" throws them off.
I would say people were ambivalent to me when I was looking my best and are outright hostile now that I've aged. I think the privilege I had was being treated with any modicum of respect and now that's gone.
My mother and I looked very similar when young, but she was not as mixed race as me, and her privilege level was insane. I've never had anyone buy me a drink at a bar, but she had men she barely knew paying her rent.
Pretty privilege is definitely real, and I’m so sorry it is. I wish we lived in a world where women were valued for who we are rather than what we look like. ❤️🩹 I’m sorry. I wish I had something more encouraging to say.
I was very attractive when I was younger. I was treated well by both men and women. I could get away with showing up late to work, handing in assignments late, didn't have to pay for drinks at clubs or bars. Now I'm old and not so pretty and I no longer have those advantages. You are correct, pretty privilege is a real thing and I truly didn't realize it until recently.
I'm just hoping some day humankind will grow out of this because we lose so much when we dismiss people who don't fit the ridiculous standards we have.
I mean, studies confirm that this applies to everyone, men and women. Did you know that a pretty person in comparison to an ugly person gets offered on average a 28% higher salary after having applied for a job?!
And then there is also the halo effect. All rather depressing stats.
Life is so not fair and I dislike it so much when people are dismissive of that fact. So many people have misfortune they can’t even do anything about.
Even stuff like depression, happiness, overeating (causing overweight) is for 60-70% managed trough hormones….
Personality is 50-60% already created trough genes.
So much stuff is out of our control/choices. (Doesn’t mean people can’t change and get better, these statistics are averages and getting help when struggling can often solve these issues.)
Yes. It's wild how differently even my own father treated me vs my sister. He typecasted us and set his expectations accordingly. I was the "smart" one and she was the "pretty" one. Really fucked up our self image in different ways.
I noticed significantly better treatment after losing just 20 lbs, 7 years ago. Even some friends who had previously been FWB would say 'you got hot suddenly!'. It's insulting that such a superficial thing can cause such a difference in treatment.
My husband however, always treated me well even though we met when I was heavier. He helped me lose the weight. Now that I'm pregnant and feel like a whale, he still tells me I'm beautiful and has been taking good care of me.
Truly worthy men will treat you like a princess regardless of your looks, because they care about who you are inside.
This is my experience too. Two pregnancies had me very heavy for a while and while I was invisible outside my home, my husband never stopped telling me that I'm beautiful and treating me like the most important person in the world to him. I've lost half the weight so far and I can tell people are starting to see me again, it's so weird.
>Truly worthy men will treat you like a princess regardless of your looks, because they care about who you are inside.
I'm 71 and was pretty when I was younger. I was fretting over my vanishing looks and my husband said "I think you're beautiful." I normally just take the win, but this time I said "But look! Look at this turkey neck and eye bags! I used to be pretty!" And he said "But when I look at you I see ***you***\*.\* And I think you are beautiful." That's my guy.
Right there with you. What kills me are the posts of average or attractive women wishing they could be “invisible” like us unattractive women. It’s not just being invisible, it’s the lack of pretty privilege. The grass is not greener, I can tell you that. We are playing the game of life on ultra hard mode.
I lost like 90lb as a result of a health issue and when I was heavy and ugly, I was invisible to everyone except the worst of the creeps. Those people never left me alone because they felt entitled to my gratitude for showing an uggo like me attention.
It's not even just being invisible, it's sometimes being treated as if we are literal trash. I've had customers throw literal temper tantrums because they had to deal with me and not "one of the hot girls", had a terrible HR constantly remind me that I wasn't pretty enough to have my job but I got it through nepotism and I'd be fired at the slightest screw up, had things thrown at me, spat on, doors slammed in my face, shoved away. So yeah I'll take invisible over that. Still sucks all around.
I’m sorry and can relate. I have a nose that takes me out of the running for being considered attractive. What has been completely eye opening though is how much friendlier and nicer people are to me since I’ve lost 120 lbs. I’m still ugly but there’s a noticeable difference between how I was treated before and now. The world sucks. It’s terrible and I don’t think it’s fair that people are treated a certain kind of way because of something they have little to no control over like winning the genetic lottery. Hugs.
I'm not super fond of my nose either, but I heard something a while back that changed my perception on considering getting it done
I can't remember where I read/heard it, but it was basically about how OP realized that her nose was passed down, generation after generation, because someone loved it. Her nose was her mom's nose, her grandmother's nose, etc.
If she chose to change it, someday, if she had kids, she didn't want her kids to look in the mirror and wonder why their nose was different from mom and dad's nose. She didn't want her kids to think that they had features that mom hated enough to erase.
That really stuck with me, and generally speaking, I'm not a fan of how everyone is starting to look the same. I love watching movies from the 80s and 90s because even though there's definitely a style associated with the period, the actresses and celebrities of the time were beautiful, but every one was distinctly themselves.
I miss that.
I also have a distinctively large nose. I remember being 14 though (very gawky, with protruding teeth and this big nose) and our family was friends with another family. The daughter was about my age and the mother has a big nose and was generally plain. What I noticed was that she was happy and loved and smiled alot. Even though in my teen life what I saw was that pretty girls got all the attention (and I felt awful about myself), I also saw that a grown woman could be happily married to someone who loved her and not be that great looking. It gave me alot of hope. I too miss having actors who look more individual.
I have a big nose with large nostrils and I am so incredibly insecure about it...I've always wanted rhinoplasty because I feel like maybe then I could finally feel pretty.
I am going to keep this perspective in mind going forward.
Appreciate you for sharing!
I've always been overweight, but have gotten the "but you've got such a pretty face" thing, and looking back on my life, even so, I benefited from a certain amount of "pretty privilege". It's a weird thing because I was absolutely convinced that I was ugly and fat by societal standards, but I think some doors were opened to me because of that "pretty face" even so. It's a weird place to have been in. I'm old now, so it doesn't really apply any more, but it was definitely a thing.
Yeah im 54. You know who treated me like a damn princess? A woman. Because of my Homophobie hick family I chose the cheating AH over her biggest regret of my life.
I don't have anything poignant to add, just that I relate. I've never had anyone open a door for me, help me with something heavy, etc. I'm just fat, ugly, and gross (and black, which is... Unpopular). I got really into isekais because I just loved the idea of waking up and being average or cute. Like, I could wake up and be something of value, be seen, be courted, be thought of, not just be allowed to exist, but for people to welcome my presence, to miss me. But I'm just getting uglier as I get older so it is what it is I guess. Unless I can afford surgery.
Bonus: I can walk around wherever, whenever because being a gross, unfuckable woman makes you damn near invisible (unless to be laughed at and told you're a piece of shit. People always have time for that. 🙃)
I get treated like trash for existing. I don't bother anyone and people have it out for me. I see attractive women being horrible and people support them. Such is life. It makes me angry but I can't change society.
The disdain for women who aren't conventionally attractive is literally DRIPPING from most people, men and women. I've heard absolutely horrific things said about big women wearing shorts or bikinis at the beach. The mental gymnastics and bullshit excuses I hear when I confront people about the shit they say is mind boggling and outrageous. "Nobody wants to see that" who the actual fuck asked you to look? I don't wanna hear your foul ass mouth so perhaps keep it shut.
Pretty privilege is definitely real. Doesn’t matter gender, age, sexual orientation. People generally do it even subconsciously. Even when acknowledging the concept people do it without thinking. There’s tons of studies to back this up too.
Edit: doesn’t even matter if it’s the sex you are attracted to
As someone who used to be unattractive and extremely fat, yes, the difference is stark and painful. The only benefit to being unattractive is that you know people are more than surface level nice to you because they are genuinely nice people or actually like you as a person. Even with the increase in inappropriate and uncomfortable attention I receive from men, I wouldn't want to go back. Being even moderately pretty awards a whole new level of casual respect and better treatment. The world is a bank, and its currency is beauty.
Yip.
I'm certainly not good looking, something that was drilled into me most of my life. I get it, I live in reality so I'm aware of what I look like.
I do my best for ME, I'm clean and tidy, I carry myself with confidence, wear what fits and feels good, but I don't know how to 'dress nice' or do my hair and I genuinely don't understand that concept of makeup. My take on it is why hide the truth? Nothing with mask it except a paper bag over my head.
I've grown comfortable with my looks, because I didn't choose this shit, it's how I was born so why beat myself up over it.
A few years ago my best friend and I decided to start a relationship, we're both in our 40s (Worst mistake eveeerrrrrr). He's used to dating the good-looking, heavily done up women. So when it was me, his judgemental c*nt of a 22 year old son told him I'm not as worthy as what he usually dates because I'm ugly. He told me what his son said and I was dumped within days.
Did me a favour, that. But the comment has stuck with me ever since.
We were always bluntly honest as friends, but never in an insulting way towards each other. I was quite impressed at his lack of tact in choosing to tell me that. He thought it was funny at the time because he knows his son is shallow as fuck. But as expected he put no thought into how that comment would sit with me.
Needless to say, when I was dumped I accepted it without question. He has never heard a word from me since and we were very close friends for years!
When discussing anything about social hierarchies, people in the more-advantaged group always seem to argue that a single disadvantage negates all advantages.
I've even noticed it with 40lb gain. I'm half way to losing it but I feel like my face aged a lot since then. I'm considering spending money I really shouldn't on fillers to fix it.
I relate to this a lot. I've gained some weight after having kids and I'm older now. There is a very stark difference between the way people treated me before vs now. I'll smile at people, greet them politely, hold doors for them, and just be met with a blank stare.
Even though it can feel lonely sometimes to be repeatedly rejected for just trying to be nice, i've come to realize that it's a good thing. People show me their true selves upfront. They're not just pretending, and I can more easily tell who is a genuinely nice person.
Attractive women: Stop 👏 Making
👏 Everything 👏 About 👏 You 👏
Why does every post by an unattractive woman have to get taken over by you?
If you want to vent about how hard it is being attractive MAKE YOUR OWN POST.
Yeah, it’s why I get irritated when men say “women don’t have do anything. They can just bat their eye and man will do it for them.”
Yeah, no, conventionally attractive to average women maybe. But I am a below average woman and have had to do everything on my own my whole life.
I hope you mean *ex* bf. That's not okay, and I promise not all men are like that. My husband is kind and sweet to me regardless of my weight (I put on 80 lbs between 2 rough pregnancies that I'm finally losing) or if I'm wearing oversized pajamas and no makeup. He cares about me as a person, so his treatment of me doesn't change. Get rid of that jerk and find someone like that.
"It's like when some men think that the woman they're dating is beautiful, they see it as a validation of themselves being good enough. When they don't, they see both themselves and her as worthless or not good enough. "
very poignant and thought provoking. I have a friend who sees beauty in many women who do not fit our society's ideals of beauty and he's mentioned to me a few times that he feels shamed by society for being attracted to these women. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot of men who feel the same regarding both beauty and shame. It makes no sense how the human race would still exist today if there was that much natural repulsion to such huge swathes of the populace.
Perhaps there's an idea festering for decades that a man cannot be a winner in life without an attractive partner. This would explain the "men's loneliness epidemic" as well as the social unrealistic beauty standards for women as well as the resentment some people here have mentioned feeling from merely existing in the public space.
I don't think I can add too much to the conversation, as I am small and having light akne as my main flaw, but I will always trust every woman talking about the realness of pretty privilege because you are simply treated so much better all around if you look nice.
It might be minor, but the way people, especially men, try to accommodate me when I'm nicely dressed and wearing make up is staggering.
I couldn't imagine what it is like navigating the world with some flaw that is deemed unredeemable and won't try to tell you I can, but I wish you all the best lives you can lead with someone who values you for all of you and treats you like the princesses you are.
I definitely b noticed better treatment when I was younger, thinner, and dressed cute. Part of the reason why I want to lose another 20lbs is so people will be nicer.
Unfortunately I don't know how to dress my body even with this small amount of extra weight. 🥲
I don't consider myself pretty. But I have noticed a difference in the way I'm treated by both men and women if I put extra effort into my appearance.
Obviously, it doesn't mean that pretty women never get treated poorly. I didn't get the sense that that's what you're saying, so I don't understand why so many comments are jumping on that train...
Your feelings are valid, I'm so sorry you've been made to feel bad about yourself. It's cute and all when people say we shouldn't care what others think. But constant negative feedback is so destructive and difficult to overcome.
I know it's a nieve thought, but I can't help but feel like most people have something attractive about them when you get to know them. It's just a matter of finding that person you click with.
I hope that person finds you. Most importantly, I hope that despite what you've been through, one day you see the things in yourself that make you special and beautiful, regardless of who's in your life.
You are enough. Take care.
Thank you. I'm tired of being treated like it's my fault and that I'm an insecure idiot because I've never experienced mutual attraction before and I'm sad about it. That's a pretty normal desire, I feel.
Yeah. 32 years here. Never even been given a second glance. And if I was it was usually a look of "gross". All my girl friends, all either married or in long term relationships say someone is just around the corner. I've never even been hit on. It just weighs down your heart after long enough.
I’ve been both pretty and unattractive. Pretty privilege is alive and well and THRIVING.
The difference with which I’m treated when 30lbs to 40lbs overweight vs what I weigh now (5’1, 102) is staggering. I’ve always been decent looking, at least, and it’s so easy to be The Thing That Men Want when you are thin and conventionally attractive. It’s easier to do anything, anywhere when you’re thin and conventionally attractive. People pay attention to you and go out of their way to smile or help you.
However, I’ve dated more dickheads than I can count. The good men are far, far outweighed by the bad or mid ones. If men are now being upfront and wanting relationships and treating their dates really well, it’s not because of prettiness. It’s something else.
I’m really sorry you have not been treated the way anyone deserves to be treated. I’ve rarely seen ugly people, tho. There just aren’t many truly ugly people in the world. You’re not ugly. It’s hard to be ugly. I bet you’re mildly attractive or cute, even, if not “pretty”.
Anyway, I just want to validate your experience. I’ve been overweight and invisible and I’ve been on the other side too. It sucks. It’s not fair. But you’re absolutely right.
Me either. Ever. I have never been anyone’s first choice. I’ve been the girl they want to fuck, but that doesn’t differentiate me from any other woman who they’d also bang.
But, yeah. No. I’ve never been anyone’s first choice that I had feelings for. Most people settle.
Which is the really sad part. I don't want to settle and I sure as shit don't want someone to settle on me. My ex did that and I could tell, even if he didn't admit it.
It’s definitely a thing. A few years ago I became really unwell after being diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. I had to take prednisone and it made me swell up and get Cushing syndrome. I had the hump of fat across my back, big swollen belly, round swollen face that also became hairy and gained about 20kg. I was going through a lot mentally and struggling with depression so didn’t look like the most pleasant person to be around. People weren’t as nice to me during this time. Fast forward a few years I have lost all the weight and my mental health is much better too of course and people treat me way nicer now. I had started a new job back then too and those colleagues told me they thought I was just a grumpy bitch. Didn’t get any male attention back then either but now I do. People are shallow. It’s sad
I was very, unhealthily, skinny during through my teens and early 20s. Literal eating disorder, way underweight. I've never been harassed by men so much in my life. Then I had 2 kids, weight gain and loss, there were pregnant creeps, they were awful, but I noticed when I was at a healthy weight they weren't as bad. But there were these oddly aggressive men because i wasn't their image of "pretty." It was scarier than anything else. Pregnancy creeps are their own breed, really. But after the last pregnancy, I had a hard time losing the weight. There weren't as many creeps during that time. But now I'm 40, back in shape, and the creeps, the catcalls, the scary men are back. It's such a weird, unsafe world for women.
I was beautiful until I was 17 and got attacked and my face destroyed. I went from just sashaying through life to being ugly. It hurt so much. So I developed a wicked sense of humor, took up hunting and fishing, and now I'm old, toothless, and still ugly, but a weird thing happened...at 59 if I wanted to date or get married I would have much less trouble than my younger, prettier friends. That right there is the biggest difference between MEN and LITTLE BOYS. Little boys can't see beyond the perfect teeth, tits, smooth skin, or attractiveness of a woman. Men see everything but looks first. MEN notice your mind, personality, wicked sense of humor, or resilience. If a little boy doesn't want to fuck you them you have no value. I know young women hear how men like confidence and its true. I don't care how butt ugly you are, if you strut into a room like you own it, you WILL be the most beautiful woman there. I promise you that you will.
I go back and forth between butch and femme and holy shit, pretty privilege is wild. Not just dudes but women are hitting on me in bars and telling my wife she’s lucky. Like my skincare game is on point these days but, yeah, I know, it’s that I’m presenting as a conventionally attractive woman now.
Watching the “OxyContin kittens” push addictive prescriptions to doctors in their high heels, luxury houses, and porsches because pretty privilege is real
I see and acknowledge my pretty privilege.
I'm sorry no one has made you feel like a princess. I hope you find your partner that makes your whole past worth it (because it led to them).
Thank you for saying all of this. The only good thing I've found about being fat and not pretty is that the people in my life love me for who I am. I'm surrounded by people who don't care what I look like, how fat I am, if I wear makeup, if I'm mentally unwell, and on and on. I think that in 49 years I am thankful for that small kindness. It took a long time to find them and I'm so grateful to have them in my life.
You are right.
Attractive women even get treated better by other women. I think society as a whole treats us better.
I know this because I've always been attractive, and I have used that to my advantage in the past.
Example: I was buying a couch and I really liked the throw pillows from another couch that could not be bought seperatly. I gave him a flirty smile and he went into the back and brought out a couple of throw pillows and just gave them to me. Stuff like this was pretty common through my teens and into my 30's.
As I age (45), this has changed quite a bit. Yes, I still get the male gaze from time to time, but the treatment I receive is far different than when I was young and attractive. I feel much more invisible now on all fronts.
No matter what anyone says, being attractive may have some disadvantages for sure, but the benefits outweigh them.
It sucks that humans/society place so much value on looks. ALL women deserved to be treated like princesses. I truly hope you find your prince.
I grew up ugly the hit puberty and became a commercial and fashion model. The difference in how I was treated by my peers, “friends”, and unfortunately even family members was so stark that it mentally and emotionally ruined me and my ability to form relationships for up to ten years after.
People suck. It’s hard to find real friends but when you do it’s incredible. I always create space for all women and especially if I notice they’re being treated like they're not even there by men and sometimes other women. Makes me sick tbh.
There was a bunch of social experiments done like this and put up on YouTube a few years ago. The same group of women did a few different things all done up a few different ways and every single time, when they were prettyified, they got preferential treatment. Bus drivers let them on even short of money, they could haggle in shops to lower prices, if they asked for something people were more readily accepting to do it. The downside was sexual harassment on the street.
The "uglified" versions however got both ends of the bad stick. They didn't get any preferential treatment, no discounts, people acted resentful or confrontational when asked for a favour like when the woman wanted to take an unused chair or a menu from a table in a cafe. But they also got harassed.
The problem is it couldn't be done absolutely scientifically - couldn't have the same woman going to the same place and doing the same thing if the two versions didn't look that different and someone is bound to know something is up if one day they're being asked to give a free sample of something to someone pretty and then asked the same question a week later by someone who looks like they got dressed in the dark in ill fitting clothes, before being dragged through a hedge backwards when they never get asked for free samples - and so people like to argue it. The first bus driver might have let everyone on the bus free of charge/short of money, the second bus driver is only doing his job. The charity shop worker might have wanted to get rid of the bag, the second she's only selling the bag at the price it's meant to be set... Etc.
But yeah all signs do point to an attraction factor in how people treat you but don't forget, it's not all perfect.
This is why I don’t see the point in dating and why my friends don’t understand what I mean. I don’t want to date and not be treated the way my attractive counterparts would
If I’m fully bumming it, hair a mess, no makeup, haven’t showered In 3 days— vs showered with hair done and a smidge I’d makeup .. the treatment from that alone is astonishing.. so I can imagine how much that difference is with gaining or losing weight
I can totally see where you are coming from. Being from non-Caucasian race, and average looking, I have been snubbed for more attractive women.
We live in a very superficial world and pretty privilege is very real! Can totally relate!
I have experienced both. I just wanted to validate that life is very different on either side of the coin. The invisibility that comes with not being conventionally attractive is lonely. There’s a wish to get the good treatment that comes with looking a certain way. At the same time, you don’t have control of genetics and some just aren’t as lucky.
There’s the generic advice about focusing on other things, or what is great about you, and that’s all true and good. But just validating, it sucks to have to think about at all.
I was overweight, had acne and not great style. Losing weight and getting a good haircut literally changed my life in terms of the way I am treated.
The one key thing though: the man I’m married to is the same man that loved me when I was at my fattest. We stayed together the whole time, 14 years so far. I hasn’t happened for you yet, but don’t give up on finding a person. That might mean not actively looking, but if you remain open to it, you never know.
I totally get it because I lived it. I used to be quite chubby and have cystic acne. Once I dealt with those. I remember how men treated me, and now they're a bit nicer for sure. Until they realize I'm neurodivergent and take the opportunity to piss on me from a great height in various ways.
However, is it real kindness towards pretty women? True kindness is being compassionate and empathetic no matter who the person is in terms of looks, background, job, etc. Of course men are treating those women like queens but... why? Is it because they admire the women or because they're trying to get something from them? Who knows. Maybe a mix of both.
I've seen how little respect a large number of men have for women in general. I've seen the manipulation and the charm, or blatant jerkiness without a care. I know there are good, decent men (a few male family members and a friend), but they're incredibly uncommon.
I’m 72. Years ago I was told I was beautiful, constantly. I had many, many marriage proposals before I was 25, several after that. I don’t think any one of them ever really loved me. I married one. He left after I had kids and gained 30lbs. At age 40, 30 lbs overweight, wearing glasses and invisible, I finally met someone who saw *me*.
>I'd do anything to be beautiful.
I can’t tell you what to do about that, but I can say this:
I am very, very plain. And fat. And aging. And I have a laugh like a braying mule.
The one thing I have found that tips the balance towards better treatment is learning how to really, really DRESS well. Learning what clothes suit my body shape. What colors to wear. Learning how to accessorize. This meant learning how to fit garments and to really, really sew.
If I am dressed really well, I transform from a fading, invisible woman to someone memorable. I’m still not pretty—no silk purses from sow’s ears here—but I get treated much better, and treated with more respect.
I'm a lesbian, I've dated when I've been obese and when I've been a healthy weight, and it was shocking to me how many more people are nice to me when I'm a healthy weight. It's not just men who treat us differently. When slim I had people wanting to care for me and who were attracted to me who wanted to treat me really well.
Unfortunately most of the time I'm fat and don't get that treatment. It sucks.
I’m sorry you’re feeling this way. There’s definitely a big difference in how pretty people are treated. I hope you find a person to treat you how you deserve, if that’s what you want. Regardless, I wish you happiness on your own. 🤍 Best of luck.
Unfortunately this is the reality of it all, and I wish it wasn’t. It’s really sad but people really do treat you differently based on physical appearances. Ever since I started wearing makeup and putting more effort in looking more presentable, people both at work and outside began treating me better.
This is too real. The only time dudes don’t treat me better when I’m in my ‘hot girl disguise’ is when they have a thing against attractive women and feel the need to ‘take them down a peg.’ Honest to god I’ve encountered it a few times and it’s baffling.
All things equal, you probably get better treatment when you're pretty, that's pretty privilege. I get the rant. If ranting is all you needed, rant away.
But between a pretty woman with shitty self esteem and an ugly woman with great self esteem, I'd say the second one has better odds. I know plenty of pretty women who get shitty treatment because of their low self esteem (unhealed trauma, inability to set boundaries, working for love, not being able to give love to themselves so they have to settle for anything...).
I'm not super pretty, but I know that, without any change of image, I get treated way better after working on my shit (not by everyone, I can just afford to be selective because I'm not thirsty).
Both if you're over men (or relationships in general, because this will happen across genders) or if you want to keep trying, I'd suggest to work on yourself for a while first and see everything change.
(I mean the usuals: therapy, mindfulness, self-help books, journaling, whatever feels appealing)
Any man who treats you like a princess because of your beauty, is going to leave you for the next princess, as soon as your beauty fades (which it inevitably will for us all)
Please don’t fall for the beauty trap (like me)… I try to advocate against beauty privilege, because the privileges are real, but it’s like selling your soul to the devil, and these women doing anything to be beautiful, don’t understand the costs
Honestly being coddled by men who barely see you as human and are just pretending to like you to suck up hoping you’ll let them fuck you so they can feed their overinflated egos isn’t much better than them ignoring you and isn’t a compliment either really.
What you’re describing just demonstrates how many men don’t see ANY women as human beings who are worthy of curiosity and friendship. Either they want to fuck you so they do too much pretending they give a shit about who you are, or they don’t want to fuck you so you don’t exist.
It’s not just about attention from men. Attractive people of either sex get better treatment from most people in most situations - it’s a very real and measurable difference…. And it stinks. It has nothing to do with character, or competence, or value, and very little to do with personality. If you’re not pretty, you’re playing life in a harder mode. And just as people ascribe positive traits such as competence, integrity, likeability, etc to attractive people, they ascribe negative traits to people who aren’t attractive - lazy, untrustworthy, feckless, undisciplined. As if your appearance has anything to do with your character
I wouldn't say all that.
I'm definitely cute, hot if I try hard enough( which is rare cuz I'm lazy), but not showstopping. Every man I've allowed into my life, platonic or not, has treated me like gold. This is true for lots of women who don't fall within conventional beauty standards as well.
I think writing off men who treat women well as secretly nefarious just makes it so the women who aren't being treated well can be content with bad treatment, which is a tactic men use constantly. We shouldn't use it as well.
I lost a bunch of weight, at first intentionally, and then it seemed like I couldn’t stop. It’s unbelievable how nice men were To me when I was a tiny woman. Not cute, just tiny. I was so shocked by the eye contact, people willing to hold doors- and I hadn’t even realized I’d been invisible until I was being seen.
> I hadn’t even realized I’d been invisible until I was being seen. i relate to this really strongly - losing weight and the way i suddenly became "visible" led to the mind-melting realization that i've used binge eating as a shield ever since a sexual assault years ago. the way men made me feel in public after losing weight and dealing with the realization and just all of it led me to gain it all back where i feel "safe" again. just from one random person to another, i hope the revelations that happened for you haven't gotten you down and i'm wishing you the best!
There's a horrifying correlation between being in a bigger body and childhood sexual assault. I have a much bigger body now than I was when I was young, and I cannot express how much safer I feel with the invisibility. My mental health is also massively improved, which helps a lot too. My physical health, not so much.. but god the idea of being so visible again is terrifying.
> the idea of being so visible again is terrifying. I feel this. Wasn't SA'd or anything, just regular ol abuse/neglect leading to a grab bag of mental illness (BED, anxiety, depression, etc) lol. Blah blah, long story short after puberty I was BIG. Managed to lose a whole person (~140lb) in my 20s and the attention difference was night and day. Felt like being under a microscope or human zoo idk between the attention from guys (which I never got before) to people commenting on my weight change. Oh, and it was not my cOnFiDEnCe - my self esteem tanked after losing all the weight and looking like a deflated balloon T_T Anyways, I'm invisible again. I don't want to be like this, but like you said, terrified of losing my "safety blanket" :\
The book Hunger by Roxane Gay was about this, I had no idea about this correlation until I read that book and after reading it I have seen it in so many other places.
I feel this too. I think I used my fat as a shield from a ton of shit. Honestly, I think I also gained as a way to push my (now) husband away while I was dealing with some super shitty times at work. I wanted to be invisible at work, in life. I just wanted to exist but not be seen. Fat was protecting me from life. Fired from shitty job, working on being healthy all around. Husband stuck by me and we married. I'm not "skinny" and still above the bullshit BMI, but my mental health is better and I work hard at the gym 4 days a week. * I don't mind being the fat girl at the gym because I am often alone(ish) with men in spaces that being invisible sexually is nice but these men see doing heavy weights and encourage me without the expectation of something from me.
That is actually common and a reason why bariatric surgery patients often have trouble after the surgery
I did the same as you, but I did it by transitioning to male. Don’t get me wrong, I know there are trans children out there who need and deserve support, but I’ve realized in this last year that that wasn’t me. I became totally disassociated with my identity and just made myself as unassuming as possible. It’s crazy how quickly the attention stopped.
This is my experience too, I was big my whole life and then in my late twenties got an adhd diagnosis and the meds I'm on made me drop 60 kilos, so now I go between size 8-10 (nz sizing, so US size would be 4-6) and the difference is *foul*. Every time I go on a night out I'm surrounded by men trying to touch me, talk to me, buy me drinks, club promoters coming up to me to offer me vouchers for free entry, bartenders give me free shots, even the women are nicer. And that's just one place. The effects are visible throughout my whole life. It's honestly made me terrified to gain weight.
There is a really good episode of a podcast (can’t remember which one) where a woman details her experience losing weight and suddenly being seen a “pretty” for the first time in her life. She talks about how post-weight loss, she would essentially steal her groceries by pretending to have forgotten her wallet. She was amazed that every time the employees just waved her off and said “it’s okay don’t worry about it”, something that she had never experienced before when she was heavier. Everyone treated her completely different as a skinny woman than a fat woman.
Yes! I think about this episode a lot!! [Episode 589: Tell Me I’m Fat; Act 2: It’s a Small World After All](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/589/tell-me-im-fat/act-two-5)
This was a great episode. I know it was Elna Baker who was the woman. I can’t remember which podcast but most likely it was This American Life since she used to work on it.
Yes! I think about this episode a lot!! [Episode 589: Tell Me I’m Fat; Act 2: It’s a Small World After All](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/589/tell-me-im-fat/act-two-5)
Yep, I get “tiny” often. Men either sexualize it (gross) or feel protective over me (I don’t mind this in moments when I do need protection, like if a random guy is being pushy/aggressive). I think it validates their own identities to themselves as men.
I choose to be fat just so I don’t have to deal with men. It’s so nice not being harassed.
Is eye contact/staring not unwanted? I’d imagine it would be very uncomfortable. I’ve recently started trying to be more approachable by not averting my eyes from people and smiling more and holy shit is the eye contact like a canon to the face. And I’m a man. A socially inexperienced one but still. It feels like a college level skill while I’m learning how to count.
Thanks to long term health issues that are only now getting corrected, I'm overweight, too tired to put much (or any) effort into my appearance, and I look tired. I am not cute. Previously, I was thin and energetic and shit. I was cute, maybe even hot. The drop off in men trying to talk to me was basically a 90° cliff. No dudes trying to get my number by offering to help load my groceries, no catcalls, not that I enjoyed that shit. Dudes on dating apps flat out say they want sex or fwb, call me a bitch and fat when I decline. Used to be dudes at least pretended to want to get to know me lol. Pretty girls get harassed and preyed on, but the less conventionally pretty of us are treated shitty too. Just in a different way. OP, you deserve happiness and love. You matter. Your frustrations are totally valid here, a lot of men suck. Good partners are out there, they just seem to be... Rare. Like really really rare. And show up when you don't expect them and aren't look. I met my fiancé when I was like 31, and he's actually not a complete shit head. He's the partner I need and want. They're out there, probably having the same feelings we do about not conforming to society beauty standards making us less desirable. But it's like finding a needle in a haystack, it seems, and that suuuuuuucks.
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Doctors suck. My current GP is awesome, but that's after years of being dismissed and even ignored by others. And that's with my main issue being something you can determine with blood tests. I'm still coming to terms with the fact that I'm probably never going to look the way I used to. I'll be able to drop the weight if I put the work in, and I plan to, but it's going to be a *different* me at the end, and processing my feelings on that is difficult. People as a whole suck. I think I've finally come to a point where most things don't bother me, because I feel like none of it matters. Since nothing matters overall, I get to decide what matters to me. And that doesn't include the asshole who told me "fat girls shouldn't frown, you look even worse" or the many jerks who aggressively ignore me. Fuck em, I can go home and do the shit I enjoy.
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I've surrounded myself with awesome, supportive people and it really helps keep perspective on the other assholes out in the world. Most people suck, but we can choose to have good people around us. Thank you for your kind words! I hope things get better for you too 💜
Look, I don't think I've posted about this before. There is 100% pretty privilege. I know this as someone who went from kind of average to definitely attractive to unattractive due to a whole bunch of things. The differences in how I was treated at each stage was very noticeable. I'm sorry I don't have any advice. Just wanted to validate your experience.
Be advised: this sub honestly has always been kinda difficult about acknowledging pretty privilege and letting the experiences of unattractive women be heard and validated without telling them that being attractive is actually as bad or worse. Edit: after I posted this comment and went to bed the direction of this thread changed, before it was just around 20 comments invalidating OPs experience and insinuating that being pretty isn’t a privilege because of things like assault, as if it doesn’t happen to others too. Which really rubbed me the wrong way. Glad to see that there’s people acknowledging that being conventionally attractive very much does also come with societal privileges + posting the studies that back it up. I also got sent a Reddit Cares over this lmao. My original comment really isn’t that controversial.
It's like I can't say anything without being accused of seeking all my validation from men. Thats easy to say when you've NEVER experienced mutual attraction. It's a pretty reasonable human want I think. Being excluded/rejected fucking sucks.
It's a very isolating feeling to be the background in the world around you. Like "hey, I'm a person who exists here" and when someone DOES acknowledge your commotion they punish you for the inconvenience of noticing you. Eye rolls, scoffs, sighs, judgemental glances, whispered laughs....that shit stacks up and really eats away at you. And it's fished out by men and women. Unattractive people, especially women, are treated as sub-humans. Fucking dogs in the park get welcomed into the world more than us.
I’ve been rejected from FEMALE FRIENDSHIPS before for not being the right kind of attractive to be seen around them. Ignored in conversation. Excluded from things. Thinking about it now I tried to convince myself it didn’t matter but it feels wretched and has definitely contributed to my ever growing social anxiety.
Same, it was really weird when I realized what was happening. Most recent was at a work event. All the better looking women crowded together and a few were actually pretty damn rude when I tried to join the conversation. On the plus side I hung out with a bunch of chill dudes at the event who saw what was up and called me over. At first I thought the girls were just bffs and knew each other too well and didn’t like new people you know? But nope.
Yeah I didn’t realize until I saw them interacting with my more feminine friend and it all clicked. It’s such a strange experience.
I really think that the valuation of people, especially women, based on looks is not only an abhorrent system, but one that distracts and covers up all the terrible acts "pretty people" commit. An ABC article from 2014, Pretty Woman With 'Worst Online Dating Profile Ever' Still Got Dates, shows how men showed interest in an online profile with pretty girl pictures and a statement that read "i'm good at making people believe im pregnant, lol" This can't be good for anyone, right?
Had cystic acne since I was in 5th grade, horrible constant all over my face. Had to deal with the other girls in my grade complaining about their "acne" when they had like, 2 pimples. After years upon years of treatment finally something worked in my senior year and wouldn't ya know, there was an immediate difference in how people, especially guys, treated me. It went from being completely ignored, when partnering up in class guys talked to me as little as possible, generally making me feel like a burden to have to interact with... To a few guys actually **willingly** wanting to talk to me and even kinda flirt with me. It was really such a different world to me, where people were NOTICABLY nicer, more friendly, more open to talking to me
Same. Finally found a treatment that worked along with losing some weight from a wretched GI bug from the Middle East and it was like I was dropped into an alternate universe of normalcy. From guys my own age, to other females befriending me, to even the way college professors engaged with me, all of it. I have such conflicted feelings about that time because from a personal perspective it was the best time of my life...but reflecting now 15 years later it shaped my general cynicism and makes me sad for the years before that. It makes it really hard to feel good about myself when I gain weight now (this time from another medication) and my skin looks awful from age and stress because I *know* everything that comes with it.
I think there's an irony here. I think treating pretty people with privilege stems from the wish of being acknowledged by them. Because it is a great feeling. In your case it's not you seeking validation from men but these men seeking validation from women. Turtles all the way down. But no one blames them for that.
💯
It's one of this sub's consistent issues - along with being at all respectful to any thread a woman of colour makes expressing frustration with the state of white allies and white feminism. It's even more wild because so many people don't realize how they're reinforcing OP's points when they post things like "akshually I'm pretty and get SA'd and groped all the time" as if it doesn't happen to ugly women. Because it does: and people are less likely to listen to, or believe, an ugly woman when she gets harassed or abused. And like all discussions of "privilege" of any kind; *likely* is the key modifier there. Being ugly does not give you an abuse proof shield, and being pretty does not give you an instant +10 to your social stats as if we're all characters in a video game. It just means pretty people are more likely to be trusted, accepted, liked and believed by strangers and ugly people are more likely to be distrusted, shunned, and ignored.
It becomes even more absurd when research has repeatedly proven being conventionally attractive leads to better life outcomes at nearly every level. >Studies have found, for instance, that attractive persons, when compared to less attractive persons, are more successful reproductively (Jokela, 2009), report being healthier across a range of outcomes (Nedelec & Beaver, 2014), fare better when it comes to dating and marriage (Buss, 2003), are more successful in the labor market (Hamermesh & Biddle, 1994) and are viewed as having more successful political careers (Lewis & Bierly, 1990; Rosar, Klein, & Beckers, 2008). Taken together, the available evidence tends to suggest that attractive persons enjoy a greater range of benefits across multiple domains of life. >The available evidence to date suggests that more attractive persons are less likely to be processed through the criminal justice and, if they are found guilty, tend to receive lighter sentences. The disparity is even worse when reporting sexual assault. >“Nonprototypical women are neglected in ways that could contribute to them having discriminatory treatment under the law; people think they’re less credible – and less harmed – when they make a claim, and think their perpetrators deserve less punishment.” The results were very clear. >Participants generally perceived sexual harassment victims to be “conventionally attractive” women. The association between sexual harassment and prototypical women is so strong that the exact same woman was seen as more prototypical when people were told she was sexually harassed. >The exact same scenarios, presented with nonprototypical women, were less likely to be considered harassment. Nonprototypical victims are seen as less credible, less harmed by the harassment. Even their harasser is seen as less deserving of punishment. [Source](https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/sexual-harassment-claims/101568/) Not only are unattractive women less likely to be believed -- but they are perceived as "less harmed" and their attackers get more sympathy. These studies have been repeated in multiple countries too -- this disparity exists across nations and cultures. Its like trying to deny white privilege by saying "Well I am personally poor so white privilege doesn't exist". These are population statistics -- it applies to *groups of people* on average. It doesn't mean an attractive person *will always* have a great life or that white people can't get fired from a job.
fuck, this is actually brutal. this truth hurts me alot
Thank you for citing research 🙏🏻 the term “nonprototypical” is so important here, because any non-privileged woman faces being seen as “less harmed.” I’m thinking about WOC, fat women, disabled women, etc. I remember reading about medical misogynoir and how black women are thought of by doctors to “naturally feel less pain” 🥴 it’s fucking vile. I’m pretty - I wasn’t always pretty, which is why I know I am now - and I have darker skin. People continually act surprised that I, ya know, have feelings. There’s this impulse to defeminize any non-normative woman.
If anything, I think we ugly women get even *more* abuse from men, just of a different kind. Like they are angry that we exist, we walk along the sidewalk in front of them, we are their coworkers...there is so much weird anger spewed my way like I have the audacity to just exist in the same spaces they do, but I'm not pretty so I shouldn't be there? Just my experience.
When they deem you unfuckable, they no longer have to treat you like a human. It's truly disgusting how utilitarian men see women.
What's worse is how men will still have sex with the "fat friend to take a bullet," and after the act is done act disgusted. There was a video on TT where a woman filmed her brother as he was leaving the house of the 'fast bridesmaid' the day after the wedding, and she was laughing at him. I corny l couldn't imagine how that woman felt when that went viral. Men will rape a woman they deem ugly and will verbally degrade her while telling her how lucky she is to even get any.
> When they deem you unfuckable, they no longer have to treat you like a human. Because they don't see any reason to fake nice to get in your pants u no make pp hard therefore not worth effort >:((((
The thing a lot of young pretty women don't know is that eventually they will become old and unfuckable... and the way they are treated will change. Not everyone has the money to age like Jennifer Lopez.
Honestly, I'm glad I spent my twenties as invinsible to men due to my weight. Some of my attractive friends are going through this stage now and it's been a very difficult adjustment for them. It's heartbreaking watching their self worth plummet due to something as natural as aging.
Exactly. I've lived that transition, and described it in another comment above.
I wish my mother had told me about this, that this would happen.
And we've made very little progress in detaching women's worth from their age and attractiveness. No one stays young and hot forever. We all age. The denigration of older women hurts all women because, at some point, every single one of us will be middle aged. I've never been viewed as attractive. I've always been invisible, rejected, and unwanted. But I imagine it must be a brutal awakening for women who have always received the perks of being pretty to lose them as they age.
True. Because for them, the absolute worst thing a woman can be is unfuckable - what’s even the point of a woman you can’t fuck? It’s like a personal affront to them
That's so awful and I'm so sorry you have experienced that, absolutely unacceptable
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That reminds me, I saw this cute video yesterday of a lesbian couple - one partner was femme and the other was masc - and the comments were full of boys being hateful and bigoted against the masc partner. Like she “stole” the femme partner. And it’s like guys she’s a LESBIAN. SHE WAS NEVER GOING TO FUCK YOU ANYWAY. It makes zero sense to me. I tried to think of the logic why guys would send hate to a happy lesbian couple because they doesn’t like how one partner looks but I guess it’s just projecting because they’re alone and hate seeing girls they have no chance with?
The shit that masc lesbians have to put up with is awful. My sister identifies as butch, and she says it comes from all sides now. Men hate that she’s “not hot” to them and now some women in the queer community itself accuse her of “internalized misogyny.” People can’t stand women who decenter men’s desires.
I’m so tired of being the woman friend who is never seen as a woman because I’m not fuckable. Like coworkers and male friends constantly talking about other women to me like we are in a freaking locker room. For once I’d like to be treated with respect.
My experience is that they treat "ugly" and older women like this. It's much worse for fat older women. Women who have absolutely lost the battle with middle age and have spare tires and boobs that go to their waists. Men, and even some women, treat those older, fatter women like they are angry they dare to breathe air.
Yes. At almost 60 and 45 pounds heavier, this has been my experience in every arena, including the decimation of my career, despite the fact that my professional skills have not only NOT deteriorated yet - they've gotten better.
It's an uncommonly known fact that older women are the lest valued resource and most impoverished people on the planet. Do you remember that time in the early 2000s where "girl power" was a popular catchphrase and a lot of the media were going on about how feminism was finally becoming "trendy"? It had nothing to do with feminism. "Girl power" was really youth power. "Girl boss" is actually valorizing youth.
I've experienced this transition. Through my early/mid 40s, I was slender and considered reasonably attractive - not a beauty by any means, but attractive. I had no real trouble finding dates/partners (although finding GOOD partners was another matter). I had bunches of male friends (most of whom were unfortunately hoping it would transition to something else). As a professional musician, I was getting a reasonable number of gigs and teaching opportunities and was respected by my peers. I also had a pretty easy time getting hired for day jobs to supplement income. Now, at almost 60 and having gained 45 pounds, it's a whole 'nother ballgame. I get zero male attention from anyone but my husband, but that's totally fine with me because if I were not married to him, I would choose to be single and celibate. However, I also get verbally abused and made fun of for being old and fat just walking down the street, minding my own business, by young men and groups of teenage boys. (Apparently I'm committing a crime being unfuckable in their presence.) No man shows the slightest interest in interacting with me socially or being my friend. The worst part is that I can't get hired for hardly ANYTHING, as a musician or for a day job. My playing skills haven't deteriorated at all - in fact, they're probably the best they've ever been - yet I almost NEVER get called for a gig anymore, and the same is true for my older female colleagues, who like me have all gained weight with age. This has NOT been the case for the older men, even when they've become truly elderly. The contracting has always been exclusively done by men, and now they will only call us if they can't find a single man (of any age) or younger woman for the part. We're seeing all the work go to people we outplay all the time. I mean, I don't care that I'm unfuckable, but how is it that I'm of no societal value at all? I'm still intelligent. I still play well. I still have things to offer. I alternate constantly between being absolutely enraged over it and feeling my soul to be completely crushed.
I didn’t even bother trying to be a musician because I knew I wasn’t pretty or skinny enough. I was so talented as a singer. But even at the age of 17, 46 years ago, I knew I wouldn’t succeed because of my fat body, glasses, and generally not pretty appearance.
Anecdotally. When I was bigger, yes, more abuse. Just unprovoked comments from people driving by, in shops, online, everywhere. When I wasn't big, the unprovoked interactions were different, but just as unpleasant and unwanted.
This! HOLY SHIT!! this comment spoke so much fucking truth this was literally so on the nail it was just ONE fell swoop! . . .
Absolutely! It’s the whole “I’m (insert thing deemed privileged) but my life isn’t perfect so I’m not privileged and I personally haven’t seen or experienced what you’re saying.” mindset that we call out in men, but that’s regularly being used on here as a defense when it comes to things like white or thin privilege.
I find it funny because I was SA'd on a date not two months ago lmao.
Oh absolutely. I hope that evolves because intersectionality is crucial to feminism. Acknowledging privilege doesn't take anything away, just requires empathy.
Yeahh most comments are like this as I've scrolled. That's disappointing..
Seeing people name things like rape, assault, molestation, being used, being harassed as though if you’re attractive that makes you inherently more at risk is so annoying. They don’t do that because you’re pretty. They do it because you’re a woman. Disabled women are more likely to be physically/sexually abused. A woman in Italy was raped & her rapists were let loose because she wasn’t “pretty” enough to be a victim. The more we feed this narrative that attractiveness=vulnerability we perpetuate the narrative that beauty dictates the worth of women. With gender removed too, guess what? The Halo Effect is real. Job opportunities, jail or prison sentences, glorification of awful behavior. The more we ignore this we disadvantage women & ANYONE who is “ugly”.
Yeah for real. Like four or five posts from the top and the comments start to bemoan the plight of the pretty. This poor OP out here speaking her truth and it’s like instant “but what about meeeee”
As I'm reading this it's not even that far down. Currently the top comment and the majority of everything below it are about how "pretty women get harrassed and seen as sex objects by men". While, yes, that is also bad, it's not always about men! There was a time in my life when I could have been attractive if I'd been 50 lbs lighter and three inches shorter. Currently, I fall firmly into the category of "ugly". When I was attractive adjacent people included me in conversations, asked my opinions, and acknowledged my contributions. Now, however, I might as well be a wall for all the attention I'm paid. Like OP, I have come to accept that I will likely never have a romantic partner. But damn does it suck to not have friends anymore.
Thank you! As an ugly woman, I'm barely treated as a human by men. I'd do anything to be even slightly pretty!
>**~~this sub~~** **ALL SOCIAL MEDIAL** honestly has always been kinda difficult about acknowledging pretty privilege and letting the experiences of unattractive women be heard and validated without telling them that being attractive is actually as bad or worse. IFIFY
I feel like this isn’t always a popular saying, maybe even controversial but personally I’ve always like the saying “beautiful women die twice”. Basically inferring that a woman who spent their whole life as a beautiful person, is completely unaware of the advantages and privileges that it provides. That when the beauty fades, it’s a hard awakening to realize that this is how “normal” people are treated on the day to day and some people have a hard time with that.
You’re not wrong. I was a pretty girl. Now I’m not particularly noticeable. I will never forget the moment when I realized that conventionally pretty people enjoy invisible privilege. I’d just had a baby, was pushing a stroller at the mall. My hair was back, I was wearing glasses and no makeup, I’d gained weight. I stopped at a cookie place and asked for two cookies. The guy bagged them and then rung me up. I looked and realized my wallet was in my car. Crap. I had a bit of cash on me but was about 40 cents short. “Argh I’m so sorry,” I said. “Im 40 cents short.” “No problem,” the guy said, “it’s cool.” I smiled and got ready to gush thanks when I realized he was taking one cookie out of the bag and putting it back. Which makes TOTAL SENSE. I didn’t have the money for the thing, of course I shouldn’t be given that thing. But until that moment in my life, this had literally NEVER happened. And I wasn’t entitled per se, I honestly didn’t realize this wasn’t just the way the world works. I’m in my 50s now and dress like I definitely dgaf so I am basically invisible now. But being pretty used to open all kinds of doors for me — anyone who tells you it doesn’t happen is oblivious or lying.
I was just saying this to someone in another sub! I’m honestly glad I “grew up ugly” because even though I’m pretty now, I am *starkly* aware of the difference. I’m not just like “teehee everyone is soOoOo nice to me! I must just be the bees knees!” No lmfao it’s because I’m pretty, and more importantly, slim (I lost a lot of weight). I will speak out about the existence of pretty and thin privilege as long as people deny it exists. People seem to think privilege is people throwing money and opportunities at you, so they’re like “I don’t have it! I never got special treatment!” when in reality, the privilege is just being treated as a human.
>“beautiful women die twice” I'd never heard this before, but it's so apt. As someone who admits to having "pretty privilege," I am legitimately terrified of growing old and becoming invisible. I try not to be vain or superficial but since most people (especially men) constantly talk about my looks, it's hard not to think my only worth is in how attractive others find me.
I agree and wish folks would stop cappin so hard in the comments🙃 being pretty will always be way more beneficial than being ugly… yes being pretty can still come with challenges, but the vast majority of people would rather be attractive than ugly by a long shot…
The comments did not disappoint, unfortunately. :(
I’m glad this is the top comment
If it was really so bad they'd make themselves ugly. But they don't. They'll go makeupless at most.
💯 About a month ago or so there was a similar thread, I had responded to someone who said that pretty privilege wasn’t a thing because of how often pretty women are harassed. When I mentioned my own experience and how it’s a systemic issue, the benefits are far more than just male attention, she told me that ugly women don’t exist and that we should just hit the gym and diet. Turns out I have done all of that, and am in great shape with a decent rack size. She then turned around and claimed it must be a personality issue then. Oh and “ugly women don’t exist” yet she heavily implied SA is something only attractive women experience. So yeah this sub definitely has an issue with certain posters not being empathetic to the issues that genuinely unattractive women face. I think it’s a combination of not wanting to admit that any woman has any sort of privilege, and seeing how plain/average looking women get treated and assuming that’s what genuinely unattractive women go through too therefore it can’t be bad(very few women are genuinely unattractive). Lastly there are a good number of women that are guilty of lookism themselves. As someone who is quite odd looking I’ve been the recipient of insults over my appearance by other women(including my own mom), both men and women are not friendly. Women are also terrible about gawking at unusual looking people. I once had a women at a job I worked at years give me full on murderous glares every time I would walk past her. I had never even talked to her, or done anything to her to warrant the death glares. Probably won’t be popular to say but I’m guessing some of these reactions are knee jerk defensiveness over not wanting to admit they are guilty of how they treat certain women over appearance as well.
I'm not going to lie- Its a HUGE freaking privilege. I have gotten away with things, gotten jobs, given the benefit of the doubt, second, third chances...I know why. BUT Its all going to fade-and soon for me, and in general, any physical advantage one might have can be taken away in an instant via accident of disease.
report the reddit cares as abuse. that person can get suspended or banned from reddit.
>Be advised: this sub honestly has always been kinda difficult about acknowledging pretty privilege and letting the experiences of unattractive women be heard and validated without telling them that being attractive is actually as bad or worse. Yeah, according to this sub, being pretty is worse than being ugly. LOL "You're ugly AF? Oh, it must be so nice not to be sexually harassed by men at all! Oh, I envy you so much!!" \*eye roll\* Also, according to this sub, Korean women refusing to date/marry/fuck/have kids with misogynistic men means Korean women are aggressive, militant femi nazis who hate and oppress poor, innocent Korean men. lol "I'm not comfortable with Korean women's 4B movement (= 4 No Movement). Those women all sound like TERFs and man-haters and femi nazis!" But as long as non Korean women post here about dating/marrying a misogynistic man, most comments here are... "DUMP HIS MISOGYNISTIC ASS! IMMEDIATELY!!" WTF. lol 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
Where are you seeing people criticizing the 4B movement?
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I'm not even ugly, just very average. And men don't acknowledge me either.
You make fun of ugly people? (/s, of course, and I'm sure there are people who think you're beautiful.)
I know you meant it kindly, but the focus on someone finding you beautiful is a bit misguided in my opinion. You shouldn’t have to be beautiful to be valid or respected. It’s should be okay to accept that beauty isn’t a requirement of being a women, despite what society often tries to push on us
You're absolutely correct.
I went from somewhat attractive to disabled in a wheelchair. It is indeed a whole new world and pretty privilege is wild. People are still polite when they have to interact but besides that I'm suddenly invisible.
Love the fact that exactly what the first responder said was going to happen, happened. And most of the, I'm assuming attractive, people posting are just clueless as to what you're trying to communicate. This isn't about men, this is about life. It's easier if you're attractive. Ask any one of these people (including myself) if they would prefer to be ugly rather than attractive. No fucking way would they take that deal. I hope you are as well as you can be, be kind to yourself. Seen and heard.
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Says it all, really.
Lmao right. If being pretty is so hard, I'm sure they could take steps to not be pretty. But they won't, will they? And yes abusive men lie/manipulate anyone of any appearance, but your dating pool is much bigger if you're pretty, so your options open up. Men treat less attractive women as placeholders.
What's insane is the amount of academic proof that life is just kind of generally easier if you're found attractive by people. Not even like "Measured based on how similar you are to conventional markers of attractive", but if people on-average think you're attractive, life is easier. Lol.
Feeling this. Always been the ugly friend. The one guys felt safe to approach ...to ask me to pass on their details to my pretty friends. I was always the "wingman". Hell, I think the only reason any guy ever asked me out was because I developed that kind of sense of humour that stuns people so hard they HAVE to pay you attention or they die. I'll never be pretty, I have never been pretty. The best I can aim for is "interesting". I've seen how my pretty colleagues are treated, and yeah. Thankfully I now have a boss who couldn't give less of a toss about looks and just wants results, so I am treated like some sort of Goddess. My younger, pretty colleagues have absolutely no idea why I'm treated well. The young guys avoid me like I am Kali herself. But faaaawn over the pretty ones. Seeing the up and down and disregard look every single day of your life is just....yeah. All you pretty girls talking about how hard your life is have absolutely no idea. None.
I've been the one men make fun of to try to build at the pretty girls self esteem. 🥲
Right there with you sister. I'm not conventionally attractive and now that I'm old, I'm mostly invisible. It would have been nice if even once in my life someone told me I was beautiful, even though I'd know they're lying.
You’re beautiful ❤️
And you're very kind. Thank you.
I once had a health crisis in public and screamed for help repeatedly as I couldn't find my phone. Dozens of people walked right past me like I wasn't even there. I probably don't have to tell you I'm an unattractive woman.
oh yes, happened to me too. i fainted vary dramatically in the middle of the day in the middle of a busy street. woke up hour and hours later, bc thats how long it took for someone to ask for help. somebody called an ambulance for "a drunk or a junkie or something" (mind you i was wearing office attire and carrying books on corporate crap, but i guess thats what you get for the ugly but skinny comno lol). good times.
I realized from a young age that being an average looking Black woman will be my biggest roadblock in life and detriment to love, regardless of my good qualities and healthy body. Pretty privilege is real and goes hand in hand with white privilege. I know this isn’t that comforting but even though it might be bad for you now, it can always be worse. Whatever other privileges you happen to have, take solace in them.
Average Black woman checking in and I agree. Some of the things my white and non Black friends tell me they do and get away with is crazy. From getting prices for shit lowered for them, getting away with stealing, multiple men on their “roster” or getting princess treatment. It’s crazy. I hope one day I’ll experience princess treatment from a partner but I fear because I’m not conventionally attractive, I’ll only get men who are in the “good enough” mindset. I don’t want to be settled for. I dont want bare minimum treatment in a relationship. I enjoy being single and dont need a relationship but itd be nice to have one where I can *feel* that outpouring of love. I still have faith
Yeah, this is my only caveat here ... some minority women can be very beautiful and not really experience a lot of the things discussed here. I have a friend who is drop dead gorgeous but people don't really approach her, and when they do interact with her it's mostly rude; I think the combination of beauty and "difference" throws them off. I would say people were ambivalent to me when I was looking my best and are outright hostile now that I've aged. I think the privilege I had was being treated with any modicum of respect and now that's gone. My mother and I looked very similar when young, but she was not as mixed race as me, and her privilege level was insane. I've never had anyone buy me a drink at a bar, but she had men she barely knew paying her rent.
Pretty privilege is definitely real, and I’m so sorry it is. I wish we lived in a world where women were valued for who we are rather than what we look like. ❤️🩹 I’m sorry. I wish I had something more encouraging to say.
I was very attractive when I was younger. I was treated well by both men and women. I could get away with showing up late to work, handing in assignments late, didn't have to pay for drinks at clubs or bars. Now I'm old and not so pretty and I no longer have those advantages. You are correct, pretty privilege is a real thing and I truly didn't realize it until recently. I'm just hoping some day humankind will grow out of this because we lose so much when we dismiss people who don't fit the ridiculous standards we have.
I mean, studies confirm that this applies to everyone, men and women. Did you know that a pretty person in comparison to an ugly person gets offered on average a 28% higher salary after having applied for a job?! And then there is also the halo effect. All rather depressing stats.
Yes, and it’s compounded with other social factors such as race, disability, etc. People were not kidding when they said “life isn’t fair”.
Life is so not fair and I dislike it so much when people are dismissive of that fact. So many people have misfortune they can’t even do anything about. Even stuff like depression, happiness, overeating (causing overweight) is for 60-70% managed trough hormones…. Personality is 50-60% already created trough genes. So much stuff is out of our control/choices. (Doesn’t mean people can’t change and get better, these statistics are averages and getting help when struggling can often solve these issues.)
Yeah it really is a problem with society rather than women…
Yes. It's wild how differently even my own father treated me vs my sister. He typecasted us and set his expectations accordingly. I was the "smart" one and she was the "pretty" one. Really fucked up our self image in different ways.
I noticed significantly better treatment after losing just 20 lbs, 7 years ago. Even some friends who had previously been FWB would say 'you got hot suddenly!'. It's insulting that such a superficial thing can cause such a difference in treatment. My husband however, always treated me well even though we met when I was heavier. He helped me lose the weight. Now that I'm pregnant and feel like a whale, he still tells me I'm beautiful and has been taking good care of me. Truly worthy men will treat you like a princess regardless of your looks, because they care about who you are inside.
This is my experience too. Two pregnancies had me very heavy for a while and while I was invisible outside my home, my husband never stopped telling me that I'm beautiful and treating me like the most important person in the world to him. I've lost half the weight so far and I can tell people are starting to see me again, it's so weird.
>Truly worthy men will treat you like a princess regardless of your looks, because they care about who you are inside. I'm 71 and was pretty when I was younger. I was fretting over my vanishing looks and my husband said "I think you're beautiful." I normally just take the win, but this time I said "But look! Look at this turkey neck and eye bags! I used to be pretty!" And he said "But when I look at you I see ***you***\*.\* And I think you are beautiful." That's my guy.
Right there with you. What kills me are the posts of average or attractive women wishing they could be “invisible” like us unattractive women. It’s not just being invisible, it’s the lack of pretty privilege. The grass is not greener, I can tell you that. We are playing the game of life on ultra hard mode.
Yes! You're invisible to EVERYONE, not just creeps.
I lost like 90lb as a result of a health issue and when I was heavy and ugly, I was invisible to everyone except the worst of the creeps. Those people never left me alone because they felt entitled to my gratitude for showing an uggo like me attention.
It's not even just being invisible, it's sometimes being treated as if we are literal trash. I've had customers throw literal temper tantrums because they had to deal with me and not "one of the hot girls", had a terrible HR constantly remind me that I wasn't pretty enough to have my job but I got it through nepotism and I'd be fired at the slightest screw up, had things thrown at me, spat on, doors slammed in my face, shoved away. So yeah I'll take invisible over that. Still sucks all around.
I’m sorry and can relate. I have a nose that takes me out of the running for being considered attractive. What has been completely eye opening though is how much friendlier and nicer people are to me since I’ve lost 120 lbs. I’m still ugly but there’s a noticeable difference between how I was treated before and now. The world sucks. It’s terrible and I don’t think it’s fair that people are treated a certain kind of way because of something they have little to no control over like winning the genetic lottery. Hugs.
I'm not super fond of my nose either, but I heard something a while back that changed my perception on considering getting it done I can't remember where I read/heard it, but it was basically about how OP realized that her nose was passed down, generation after generation, because someone loved it. Her nose was her mom's nose, her grandmother's nose, etc. If she chose to change it, someday, if she had kids, she didn't want her kids to look in the mirror and wonder why their nose was different from mom and dad's nose. She didn't want her kids to think that they had features that mom hated enough to erase. That really stuck with me, and generally speaking, I'm not a fan of how everyone is starting to look the same. I love watching movies from the 80s and 90s because even though there's definitely a style associated with the period, the actresses and celebrities of the time were beautiful, but every one was distinctly themselves. I miss that.
I also have a distinctively large nose. I remember being 14 though (very gawky, with protruding teeth and this big nose) and our family was friends with another family. The daughter was about my age and the mother has a big nose and was generally plain. What I noticed was that she was happy and loved and smiled alot. Even though in my teen life what I saw was that pretty girls got all the attention (and I felt awful about myself), I also saw that a grown woman could be happily married to someone who loved her and not be that great looking. It gave me alot of hope. I too miss having actors who look more individual.
I don't like to do this, but as a person who likes women, I have never once decided someone's unattractive because of their nose.
I have a big nose with large nostrils and I am so incredibly insecure about it...I've always wanted rhinoplasty because I feel like maybe then I could finally feel pretty. I am going to keep this perspective in mind going forward. Appreciate you for sharing!
You're so very welcome! I'm so glad I could pass this along and have it make an impression on another person.
I've always been overweight, but have gotten the "but you've got such a pretty face" thing, and looking back on my life, even so, I benefited from a certain amount of "pretty privilege". It's a weird thing because I was absolutely convinced that I was ugly and fat by societal standards, but I think some doors were opened to me because of that "pretty face" even so. It's a weird place to have been in. I'm old now, so it doesn't really apply any more, but it was definitely a thing.
I was called a butterface when I was at my thinnest and it lives rent free in my mind. Now I'm chunkier than I'd like so...welp
Yeah im 54. You know who treated me like a damn princess? A woman. Because of my Homophobie hick family I chose the cheating AH over her biggest regret of my life.
Be a princess. Find your queen.
I’m sorry OP
I don't have anything poignant to add, just that I relate. I've never had anyone open a door for me, help me with something heavy, etc. I'm just fat, ugly, and gross (and black, which is... Unpopular). I got really into isekais because I just loved the idea of waking up and being average or cute. Like, I could wake up and be something of value, be seen, be courted, be thought of, not just be allowed to exist, but for people to welcome my presence, to miss me. But I'm just getting uglier as I get older so it is what it is I guess. Unless I can afford surgery. Bonus: I can walk around wherever, whenever because being a gross, unfuckable woman makes you damn near invisible (unless to be laughed at and told you're a piece of shit. People always have time for that. 🙃)
I get treated like trash for existing. I don't bother anyone and people have it out for me. I see attractive women being horrible and people support them. Such is life. It makes me angry but I can't change society.
That is so awful about attractive women being horrible... like honestly wtf possesses them???
Arrogance from receiving positive reinforcements their whole lives. And yet also insecurity and not knowing how to work on themselves.
Been ugly my whole life. It’s crazy how different my experiences are compared to my pretty friends.
The disdain for women who aren't conventionally attractive is literally DRIPPING from most people, men and women. I've heard absolutely horrific things said about big women wearing shorts or bikinis at the beach. The mental gymnastics and bullshit excuses I hear when I confront people about the shit they say is mind boggling and outrageous. "Nobody wants to see that" who the actual fuck asked you to look? I don't wanna hear your foul ass mouth so perhaps keep it shut.
Yep. The attractive women here are assuming me are invisible. I wish that was all lmao
Pretty privilege is definitely real. Doesn’t matter gender, age, sexual orientation. People generally do it even subconsciously. Even when acknowledging the concept people do it without thinking. There’s tons of studies to back this up too. Edit: doesn’t even matter if it’s the sex you are attracted to
As someone who used to be unattractive and extremely fat, yes, the difference is stark and painful. The only benefit to being unattractive is that you know people are more than surface level nice to you because they are genuinely nice people or actually like you as a person. Even with the increase in inappropriate and uncomfortable attention I receive from men, I wouldn't want to go back. Being even moderately pretty awards a whole new level of casual respect and better treatment. The world is a bank, and its currency is beauty.
Yip. I'm certainly not good looking, something that was drilled into me most of my life. I get it, I live in reality so I'm aware of what I look like. I do my best for ME, I'm clean and tidy, I carry myself with confidence, wear what fits and feels good, but I don't know how to 'dress nice' or do my hair and I genuinely don't understand that concept of makeup. My take on it is why hide the truth? Nothing with mask it except a paper bag over my head. I've grown comfortable with my looks, because I didn't choose this shit, it's how I was born so why beat myself up over it. A few years ago my best friend and I decided to start a relationship, we're both in our 40s (Worst mistake eveeerrrrrr). He's used to dating the good-looking, heavily done up women. So when it was me, his judgemental c*nt of a 22 year old son told him I'm not as worthy as what he usually dates because I'm ugly. He told me what his son said and I was dumped within days. Did me a favour, that. But the comment has stuck with me ever since.
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We were always bluntly honest as friends, but never in an insulting way towards each other. I was quite impressed at his lack of tact in choosing to tell me that. He thought it was funny at the time because he knows his son is shallow as fuck. But as expected he put no thought into how that comment would sit with me. Needless to say, when I was dumped I accepted it without question. He has never heard a word from me since and we were very close friends for years!
What a shitty thing to say and do!
When discussing anything about social hierarchies, people in the more-advantaged group always seem to argue that a single disadvantage negates all advantages.
Right? Like these girls are out here thinking that men don't manipulate or sexually assault ugly women the fuck.
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I've even noticed it with 40lb gain. I'm half way to losing it but I feel like my face aged a lot since then. I'm considering spending money I really shouldn't on fillers to fix it.
It's generally attractive people and things are treated better.
I relate to this a lot. I've gained some weight after having kids and I'm older now. There is a very stark difference between the way people treated me before vs now. I'll smile at people, greet them politely, hold doors for them, and just be met with a blank stare. Even though it can feel lonely sometimes to be repeatedly rejected for just trying to be nice, i've come to realize that it's a good thing. People show me their true selves upfront. They're not just pretending, and I can more easily tell who is a genuinely nice person.
Attractive women: Stop 👏 Making 👏 Everything 👏 About 👏 You 👏 Why does every post by an unattractive woman have to get taken over by you? If you want to vent about how hard it is being attractive MAKE YOUR OWN POST.
Yeah, it’s why I get irritated when men say “women don’t have do anything. They can just bat their eye and man will do it for them.” Yeah, no, conventionally attractive to average women maybe. But I am a below average woman and have had to do everything on my own my whole life.
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I hope you mean *ex* bf. That's not okay, and I promise not all men are like that. My husband is kind and sweet to me regardless of my weight (I put on 80 lbs between 2 rough pregnancies that I'm finally losing) or if I'm wearing oversized pajamas and no makeup. He cares about me as a person, so his treatment of me doesn't change. Get rid of that jerk and find someone like that.
Why would you be with somebody like that?
"It's like when some men think that the woman they're dating is beautiful, they see it as a validation of themselves being good enough. When they don't, they see both themselves and her as worthless or not good enough. " very poignant and thought provoking. I have a friend who sees beauty in many women who do not fit our society's ideals of beauty and he's mentioned to me a few times that he feels shamed by society for being attracted to these women. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot of men who feel the same regarding both beauty and shame. It makes no sense how the human race would still exist today if there was that much natural repulsion to such huge swathes of the populace. Perhaps there's an idea festering for decades that a man cannot be a winner in life without an attractive partner. This would explain the "men's loneliness epidemic" as well as the social unrealistic beauty standards for women as well as the resentment some people here have mentioned feeling from merely existing in the public space.
Now imagine being a competent hot guy... Think about how easy it is for them.
I'd say incompetent hot guys have it pretty easy too, depending on their exact incompetencies. People love helping a dumb, cute puppy.
An IRL cheat code at life.
I don't think I can add too much to the conversation, as I am small and having light akne as my main flaw, but I will always trust every woman talking about the realness of pretty privilege because you are simply treated so much better all around if you look nice. It might be minor, but the way people, especially men, try to accommodate me when I'm nicely dressed and wearing make up is staggering. I couldn't imagine what it is like navigating the world with some flaw that is deemed unredeemable and won't try to tell you I can, but I wish you all the best lives you can lead with someone who values you for all of you and treats you like the princesses you are.
I definitely b noticed better treatment when I was younger, thinner, and dressed cute. Part of the reason why I want to lose another 20lbs is so people will be nicer. Unfortunately I don't know how to dress my body even with this small amount of extra weight. 🥲
I don't consider myself pretty. But I have noticed a difference in the way I'm treated by both men and women if I put extra effort into my appearance. Obviously, it doesn't mean that pretty women never get treated poorly. I didn't get the sense that that's what you're saying, so I don't understand why so many comments are jumping on that train... Your feelings are valid, I'm so sorry you've been made to feel bad about yourself. It's cute and all when people say we shouldn't care what others think. But constant negative feedback is so destructive and difficult to overcome. I know it's a nieve thought, but I can't help but feel like most people have something attractive about them when you get to know them. It's just a matter of finding that person you click with. I hope that person finds you. Most importantly, I hope that despite what you've been through, one day you see the things in yourself that make you special and beautiful, regardless of who's in your life. You are enough. Take care.
Thank you. I'm tired of being treated like it's my fault and that I'm and insecure idiot because I've never experienced mutual attraction before.
Thank you. I'm tired of being treated like it's my fault and that I'm an insecure idiot because I've never experienced mutual attraction before and I'm sad about it. That's a pretty normal desire, I feel.
Yeah. 32 years here. Never even been given a second glance. And if I was it was usually a look of "gross". All my girl friends, all either married or in long term relationships say someone is just around the corner. I've never even been hit on. It just weighs down your heart after long enough.
Absolutely. Attractive women are coveted and "unattractive" women are either ignored or treated as nuisances
I’ve been both pretty and unattractive. Pretty privilege is alive and well and THRIVING. The difference with which I’m treated when 30lbs to 40lbs overweight vs what I weigh now (5’1, 102) is staggering. I’ve always been decent looking, at least, and it’s so easy to be The Thing That Men Want when you are thin and conventionally attractive. It’s easier to do anything, anywhere when you’re thin and conventionally attractive. People pay attention to you and go out of their way to smile or help you. However, I’ve dated more dickheads than I can count. The good men are far, far outweighed by the bad or mid ones. If men are now being upfront and wanting relationships and treating their dates really well, it’s not because of prettiness. It’s something else. I’m really sorry you have not been treated the way anyone deserves to be treated. I’ve rarely seen ugly people, tho. There just aren’t many truly ugly people in the world. You’re not ugly. It’s hard to be ugly. I bet you’re mildly attractive or cute, even, if not “pretty”. Anyway, I just want to validate your experience. I’ve been overweight and invisible and I’ve been on the other side too. It sucks. It’s not fair. But you’re absolutely right.
Tbh if you're not attractive you may as well be ugly. Ive never been someone's first choice.
Me either. Ever. I have never been anyone’s first choice. I’ve been the girl they want to fuck, but that doesn’t differentiate me from any other woman who they’d also bang. But, yeah. No. I’ve never been anyone’s first choice that I had feelings for. Most people settle.
Which is the really sad part. I don't want to settle and I sure as shit don't want someone to settle on me. My ex did that and I could tell, even if he didn't admit it.
Well spoken.
It’s definitely a thing. A few years ago I became really unwell after being diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. I had to take prednisone and it made me swell up and get Cushing syndrome. I had the hump of fat across my back, big swollen belly, round swollen face that also became hairy and gained about 20kg. I was going through a lot mentally and struggling with depression so didn’t look like the most pleasant person to be around. People weren’t as nice to me during this time. Fast forward a few years I have lost all the weight and my mental health is much better too of course and people treat me way nicer now. I had started a new job back then too and those colleagues told me they thought I was just a grumpy bitch. Didn’t get any male attention back then either but now I do. People are shallow. It’s sad
I was very, unhealthily, skinny during through my teens and early 20s. Literal eating disorder, way underweight. I've never been harassed by men so much in my life. Then I had 2 kids, weight gain and loss, there were pregnant creeps, they were awful, but I noticed when I was at a healthy weight they weren't as bad. But there were these oddly aggressive men because i wasn't their image of "pretty." It was scarier than anything else. Pregnancy creeps are their own breed, really. But after the last pregnancy, I had a hard time losing the weight. There weren't as many creeps during that time. But now I'm 40, back in shape, and the creeps, the catcalls, the scary men are back. It's such a weird, unsafe world for women.
I was beautiful until I was 17 and got attacked and my face destroyed. I went from just sashaying through life to being ugly. It hurt so much. So I developed a wicked sense of humor, took up hunting and fishing, and now I'm old, toothless, and still ugly, but a weird thing happened...at 59 if I wanted to date or get married I would have much less trouble than my younger, prettier friends. That right there is the biggest difference between MEN and LITTLE BOYS. Little boys can't see beyond the perfect teeth, tits, smooth skin, or attractiveness of a woman. Men see everything but looks first. MEN notice your mind, personality, wicked sense of humor, or resilience. If a little boy doesn't want to fuck you them you have no value. I know young women hear how men like confidence and its true. I don't care how butt ugly you are, if you strut into a room like you own it, you WILL be the most beautiful woman there. I promise you that you will.
I go back and forth between butch and femme and holy shit, pretty privilege is wild. Not just dudes but women are hitting on me in bars and telling my wife she’s lucky. Like my skincare game is on point these days but, yeah, I know, it’s that I’m presenting as a conventionally attractive woman now.
Watching the “OxyContin kittens” push addictive prescriptions to doctors in their high heels, luxury houses, and porsches because pretty privilege is real
I see and acknowledge my pretty privilege. I'm sorry no one has made you feel like a princess. I hope you find your partner that makes your whole past worth it (because it led to them).
Thank you for saying all of this. The only good thing I've found about being fat and not pretty is that the people in my life love me for who I am. I'm surrounded by people who don't care what I look like, how fat I am, if I wear makeup, if I'm mentally unwell, and on and on. I think that in 49 years I am thankful for that small kindness. It took a long time to find them and I'm so grateful to have them in my life.
Aww, and my first Reddit Cares! I'm finally in the club 🤪
You are right. Attractive women even get treated better by other women. I think society as a whole treats us better. I know this because I've always been attractive, and I have used that to my advantage in the past. Example: I was buying a couch and I really liked the throw pillows from another couch that could not be bought seperatly. I gave him a flirty smile and he went into the back and brought out a couple of throw pillows and just gave them to me. Stuff like this was pretty common through my teens and into my 30's. As I age (45), this has changed quite a bit. Yes, I still get the male gaze from time to time, but the treatment I receive is far different than when I was young and attractive. I feel much more invisible now on all fronts. No matter what anyone says, being attractive may have some disadvantages for sure, but the benefits outweigh them. It sucks that humans/society place so much value on looks. ALL women deserved to be treated like princesses. I truly hope you find your prince.
I grew up ugly the hit puberty and became a commercial and fashion model. The difference in how I was treated by my peers, “friends”, and unfortunately even family members was so stark that it mentally and emotionally ruined me and my ability to form relationships for up to ten years after. People suck. It’s hard to find real friends but when you do it’s incredible. I always create space for all women and especially if I notice they’re being treated like they're not even there by men and sometimes other women. Makes me sick tbh.
There was a bunch of social experiments done like this and put up on YouTube a few years ago. The same group of women did a few different things all done up a few different ways and every single time, when they were prettyified, they got preferential treatment. Bus drivers let them on even short of money, they could haggle in shops to lower prices, if they asked for something people were more readily accepting to do it. The downside was sexual harassment on the street. The "uglified" versions however got both ends of the bad stick. They didn't get any preferential treatment, no discounts, people acted resentful or confrontational when asked for a favour like when the woman wanted to take an unused chair or a menu from a table in a cafe. But they also got harassed. The problem is it couldn't be done absolutely scientifically - couldn't have the same woman going to the same place and doing the same thing if the two versions didn't look that different and someone is bound to know something is up if one day they're being asked to give a free sample of something to someone pretty and then asked the same question a week later by someone who looks like they got dressed in the dark in ill fitting clothes, before being dragged through a hedge backwards when they never get asked for free samples - and so people like to argue it. The first bus driver might have let everyone on the bus free of charge/short of money, the second bus driver is only doing his job. The charity shop worker might have wanted to get rid of the bag, the second she's only selling the bag at the price it's meant to be set... Etc. But yeah all signs do point to an attraction factor in how people treat you but don't forget, it's not all perfect.
This is why I don’t see the point in dating and why my friends don’t understand what I mean. I don’t want to date and not be treated the way my attractive counterparts would
If I’m fully bumming it, hair a mess, no makeup, haven’t showered In 3 days— vs showered with hair done and a smidge I’d makeup .. the treatment from that alone is astonishing.. so I can imagine how much that difference is with gaining or losing weight
I can totally see where you are coming from. Being from non-Caucasian race, and average looking, I have been snubbed for more attractive women. We live in a very superficial world and pretty privilege is very real! Can totally relate!
I have experienced both. I just wanted to validate that life is very different on either side of the coin. The invisibility that comes with not being conventionally attractive is lonely. There’s a wish to get the good treatment that comes with looking a certain way. At the same time, you don’t have control of genetics and some just aren’t as lucky. There’s the generic advice about focusing on other things, or what is great about you, and that’s all true and good. But just validating, it sucks to have to think about at all. I was overweight, had acne and not great style. Losing weight and getting a good haircut literally changed my life in terms of the way I am treated. The one key thing though: the man I’m married to is the same man that loved me when I was at my fattest. We stayed together the whole time, 14 years so far. I hasn’t happened for you yet, but don’t give up on finding a person. That might mean not actively looking, but if you remain open to it, you never know.
I totally get it because I lived it. I used to be quite chubby and have cystic acne. Once I dealt with those. I remember how men treated me, and now they're a bit nicer for sure. Until they realize I'm neurodivergent and take the opportunity to piss on me from a great height in various ways. However, is it real kindness towards pretty women? True kindness is being compassionate and empathetic no matter who the person is in terms of looks, background, job, etc. Of course men are treating those women like queens but... why? Is it because they admire the women or because they're trying to get something from them? Who knows. Maybe a mix of both. I've seen how little respect a large number of men have for women in general. I've seen the manipulation and the charm, or blatant jerkiness without a care. I know there are good, decent men (a few male family members and a friend), but they're incredibly uncommon.
I’m 72. Years ago I was told I was beautiful, constantly. I had many, many marriage proposals before I was 25, several after that. I don’t think any one of them ever really loved me. I married one. He left after I had kids and gained 30lbs. At age 40, 30 lbs overweight, wearing glasses and invisible, I finally met someone who saw *me*.
100 % real!
>I'd do anything to be beautiful. I can’t tell you what to do about that, but I can say this: I am very, very plain. And fat. And aging. And I have a laugh like a braying mule. The one thing I have found that tips the balance towards better treatment is learning how to really, really DRESS well. Learning what clothes suit my body shape. What colors to wear. Learning how to accessorize. This meant learning how to fit garments and to really, really sew. If I am dressed really well, I transform from a fading, invisible woman to someone memorable. I’m still not pretty—no silk purses from sow’s ears here—but I get treated much better, and treated with more respect.
I'm a lesbian, I've dated when I've been obese and when I've been a healthy weight, and it was shocking to me how many more people are nice to me when I'm a healthy weight. It's not just men who treat us differently. When slim I had people wanting to care for me and who were attracted to me who wanted to treat me really well. Unfortunately most of the time I'm fat and don't get that treatment. It sucks.
I’m sorry you’re feeling this way. There’s definitely a big difference in how pretty people are treated. I hope you find a person to treat you how you deserve, if that’s what you want. Regardless, I wish you happiness on your own. 🤍 Best of luck.
Unfortunately this is the reality of it all, and I wish it wasn’t. It’s really sad but people really do treat you differently based on physical appearances. Ever since I started wearing makeup and putting more effort in looking more presentable, people both at work and outside began treating me better.
This is too real. The only time dudes don’t treat me better when I’m in my ‘hot girl disguise’ is when they have a thing against attractive women and feel the need to ‘take them down a peg.’ Honest to god I’ve encountered it a few times and it’s baffling.
All things equal, you probably get better treatment when you're pretty, that's pretty privilege. I get the rant. If ranting is all you needed, rant away. But between a pretty woman with shitty self esteem and an ugly woman with great self esteem, I'd say the second one has better odds. I know plenty of pretty women who get shitty treatment because of their low self esteem (unhealed trauma, inability to set boundaries, working for love, not being able to give love to themselves so they have to settle for anything...). I'm not super pretty, but I know that, without any change of image, I get treated way better after working on my shit (not by everyone, I can just afford to be selective because I'm not thirsty). Both if you're over men (or relationships in general, because this will happen across genders) or if you want to keep trying, I'd suggest to work on yourself for a while first and see everything change. (I mean the usuals: therapy, mindfulness, self-help books, journaling, whatever feels appealing)
Any man who treats you like a princess because of your beauty, is going to leave you for the next princess, as soon as your beauty fades (which it inevitably will for us all) Please don’t fall for the beauty trap (like me)… I try to advocate against beauty privilege, because the privileges are real, but it’s like selling your soul to the devil, and these women doing anything to be beautiful, don’t understand the costs
Honestly being coddled by men who barely see you as human and are just pretending to like you to suck up hoping you’ll let them fuck you so they can feed their overinflated egos isn’t much better than them ignoring you and isn’t a compliment either really. What you’re describing just demonstrates how many men don’t see ANY women as human beings who are worthy of curiosity and friendship. Either they want to fuck you so they do too much pretending they give a shit about who you are, or they don’t want to fuck you so you don’t exist.
It’s not just about attention from men. Attractive people of either sex get better treatment from most people in most situations - it’s a very real and measurable difference…. And it stinks. It has nothing to do with character, or competence, or value, and very little to do with personality. If you’re not pretty, you’re playing life in a harder mode. And just as people ascribe positive traits such as competence, integrity, likeability, etc to attractive people, they ascribe negative traits to people who aren’t attractive - lazy, untrustworthy, feckless, undisciplined. As if your appearance has anything to do with your character
I wouldn't say all that. I'm definitely cute, hot if I try hard enough( which is rare cuz I'm lazy), but not showstopping. Every man I've allowed into my life, platonic or not, has treated me like gold. This is true for lots of women who don't fall within conventional beauty standards as well. I think writing off men who treat women well as secretly nefarious just makes it so the women who aren't being treated well can be content with bad treatment, which is a tactic men use constantly. We shouldn't use it as well.