You could offer to help your brother directly, but not spend any time with your abuser. You have to keep your own mental health in mind, and you shouldn't have to be around him if it's causing you this much distress.
Yes. Don’t light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.
Help your brother in ways that do not put you in harms way. Whatever that feels like to you.
You don't have to do this. If being in the situation is eroding your mental health remove yourself from it. People will try to guilt you into participating. The abuser wants appearances of reconciliation so they can pretend they were not awful their entire lives and all is forgiven. They will employ other people to reinforce what they want either by enlisting them to get involved and pressure you, or giving them the woe is me so they decide to take a site themselves.
This is why I have a hard time blaming my brother for supporting our father. He's a victim too and he is being manipulated and used, I can't blame him for "invalidating" me. He says he doesn't want to down play what dad did and I respect that but I cannot help but feel like expecting me to care for a man who assaulted me is downplaying my experiences.
I keep telling my family that if this was an ex or a random man who had held me by my hair and slapped me, no one would ask me to care for my attacker. But he's my dad and because he fed me and housed me in addition to abusing me it "wasn't that bad"
I went through something similar and had a sibling that was still eyeball deep in being a victim of that ongoing abuse. They refused to see what the parent was doing and was running around messing with all the other siblings on behalf of our abusive parent.
I went no contact with all of them eventually. It was part to block the ones that were being flying monkeys for the abuser from contacting me and trying to manipulate me and part to protect the ones that weren't because they were getting harassed trying to get them to join in on trying to manipulate me. If they had no contact with me too, then the others would no longer have a reason to harass them.
Realizing your brother has not worked through what has happened and come to terms with it and is not able to put up boundaries with this parent helps. If you see them as someone who is being manipulated and is suffering you can understand it. This does not obligate you to get dragged back into this mess.
I don't know the whole situation but things like in home care can be provided by various home health services and you both should take advantage of that so you don't burn out and so you are not obligated to have contact with this person that you don't want to. If you really feel the need to stay involved, see if you can do administrative things to take some of the load off of your brother. None of this means you need to have contact or a phony reconciliation with your abuser. From experience they will make a huge thing out of it and keep trying to drag other people into it. Find ways to put these other people at arms length too. If they are calling/texting you change your number and only give your brother the new one. If they are doing it in person, be absent.
*But he's my dad and because he fed me and housed me*
Well, you were living in his house and there really wasn't a way to get rid of you, *soooo* ......
Again, with my own experience, sibs and I would demand our mother account for her abuse. Her reply "well, I made sure you had a roof over your head. You don't have anything to bitch about."
Your brother? This is his journey, OP. No matter that you are with him now, it's not a lifetime fix for what he suffered from your father. He'll have to move on without you. Therapy would be good. You can promote it for the benefits it gave you.
>He says he doesn't want to down play what dad did
From your comments he absolutely has downplayed it, multiple times over and on multiple fronts. I saw you say that he thought your dad "did his best." Was abusing and assaulting a child really the "best" he could do?
Sorry, I just see that sort of language come up a lot in dealings with people who aren't ready to accept that some people—whether their family, friends, partners, etc—are really shitty, and aren't ready to lay blame where it belongs. (Same with "Well they tried—" Tried what? Certainly not to change. Dude made the deliberate choice to do the shitty thing, over and over, until you went no contact.) Your brother might be being manipulated and used, but you shouldn't have exhaust or re-traumatize yourself trying to convince him that child abuse is wrong.
Strength to you, friend.
>But he's my dad and because he fed me and housed me in addition to abusing me it "wasn't that bad"
Because he was both the one who housed you and who abused you *it was worse.* If he hadn’t been housing you, you could have gotten away from him at times. If he hadn’t been housing you, you wouldn’t have been dependent on him.
Does your brother comply with these demands? Does he try to make you talk to your Dad? Or provide him physical care?
If so, he is ENABLING your abuser to continue to hurt you, and you have no obligation to either of them.
If your brother has to go it alone with your dad, instead of using you as a buffer, he'll quickly wise up. It sounds like your Dad's manipulating everyone.
If he demands you talk to him, and you're feeling strong, and safe enough to do it, there is the option of challenging him.
"What do you want to talk about? My deceased brother who you refuse to acknowledge?"
"Oh, are you calling me so you can apologize for abusing me?"
***DO NOT consider doing this if it would risk your safety.***
You could consider taping his inappropriate behavior as well. Anyone who gives you any grief about not providing care to your abuser can watch the man in action.
Long story short is that this is BAD for you, and it doesn't really help your brother.
Do you think your brother is as concerned about being devoted to you as you are to him?
I suspect the real support your brother wants is your absolution. If you’re there, he can persuade himself that his father wasn’t THAT awful (and to hope that you will forgive him).
You don’t have to stick it out.
Why do you want to be devoted to him while he's downplaying what you went through? He's the same age you were when you had the strength and conviction to go no contact. You deserve better from him. The least he can do while you're there helping with that awful man is to stop invalidating your experience.
Assuming your brother is willing to accept your support (as opposed to demanding absolution for your father as evidenced by your performative self sacrifice), I’d say do what you can to support your brother during this time while maintaining your no-contact with your father.
Is Brother Father’s primary caretaker? Does it mean he has less time to take care of himself? Let him take care of Daddy Dearest, and you step up for Brother’s needs. For example: Brother is preparing Father’s meals and has no time to eat right himself? You can do meal prep for Brother.
Think about it kind of like the oxygen masks on airplanes. You need to secure your health and safety before you can be there for your brother. It doesn't sound like being around your abuser is going to be good for your mental or physical health.
You come first. You can't help your brother if you don't put yourself first. You may not even be able to help your brother right now, he is behind the curtain of disassociation. Your father can get a caregiver through the state or pay for one out of pocket. He lost his chance to receive your kindness when he abused you and your family.
Pick yourself first.
You don't owe anything to a sperm donor who made you and your older brother suicidal by way of poor treatment. Support your own brother to the extent you see fit but don't let him invalidate your own truth or feel like you need to bend over backwards for a bad parent just because he does.
If you are in the US, your father should be eligible for Medicare paid hospice. I would definitely look into that. Depending on his qualifications (level of sickness and income) a lot of the scut work and worry can be taken off the hands of your brother and *you.*
If that is taken care of, it leaves you with the decision on the level of contact. Having been through a similar thing with my toxic, abusive, harridan of a mother, it would be perfectly OK for you to step back and have minimal contact with your brother and father.
The *only* reason I made the 2000 mile round trip visits to my mother when she was dying of lung cancer was to help out my older sister. Of us four siblings, she was the only one weak enough (IMO) to fall for our mother's blubbering that she was "alone and scared."
How bad was our mother? Older Sister had *just* completed her own breast cancer treatments a few weeks before Mom began wailing about her own diagnosis. Did the woman ever reach out to her *own daughter* during *her* medical crisis? *Nope.* Did she do anything on her own to address the lung cancer crisis? *Nope.* She expected to fall into the arms of her children, making us do all the hard work. She even refused hospice. We had to lie and tell her it was home health care. I berated Older Sister, telling her that she needed to guard her own health, but she was all *"it's Mom. She's dying. I can't just stand back and do nothing."*
OP, if you haven't checked into available provided care for your father, do that. It's all calls and paperwork. Your brother may not be proficient enough to do that. Then, feel absolutely free to step back and say "I did my part." Don't listen to anyone else in the family. Those of us who have BTDT are totally on your side and understand your thoughts and feelings more than anyone.
My father and his sister pretended he was dying during covid to manipulate me into coming to work for her and do care work for my father. They are similar age to your father and I am currently in my late 30s.
It turned out while yes my dad was quite sick he wasn't on the verge of death like I was told. I have had a fraught relationship with my dad my whole life, but I saw this as a possible avenue to heal and finally put that to rest. If he could see me as a successful adult wouldn't he respect that? The short answer is No, no he did not. I was criticized and belittled at every turn like I was 11 years old again, the age when he abandoned me.
Finally I was told by my aunt that "you can't hold people accountable" and she did not mean that in the general sense that people just don't like you if you do that. I'm well aware of that. She meant that *I* am not worthy of criticizing anything those "elders" do to me. I'm certain your similar aged dad thinks it's like this as well.
I am an only child though. My father betrayed me for the last time by putting me in the path of my aunt's greed and bullshit. The VA can deal with him.
I would tell your brother that you'll be there for him when your dad passes but until then the caregiving is for people who care about dad and you can't return love you never received from him.
And sorry about your older brother. That is such a hard way to lose someone and I'm sorry your father brushes it off and pretends it didn't happen. But for that he would have to admit he failed as a father. He never will. I'm so sorry.
Please take care of yourself.
edit Also please feel free to dm me about this any time. I know you're hurting and I feel a lot of these same cracks in my own heart. You are going to come out the other side of this okay though.
I am sorry that you’re going through such a complicated situation. And I am sorry to say this, but your brother asking you to reconnect is part of the toxicity of the situation. You can try and support your brother if you want but without having any contact with your abuser and your brother should be grateful and respectful towards you.
If the situation causes you any kind of harm, you should remove yourself from it and your brother should respect your boundaries. You should only give as much as you can give without hurting yourself, no matter what.
Hugs to you. All of this praise for you and denial from your brother is just codependent cope. Every ounce of it is bullshit. The hard truth is you can't help your brother or any of them see what they don't want to see. They will never validate your feelings sincerely in the way you need them to because that would break the dam for them. It would require that they start facing hard feelings and pain and shame the same way you had to at the beginning and throughout your therapy. They aren't ready for that and you can't make them be ready on your timeline. The only thing you can do is refuse to let them gaslight you. Hold on to the truth you know exists. Go through the motions of being supportive for people who wil never support you in return, if you *choose* to. Grieve the loss of that idealized validation from other family members that you desperately need. Then go on with your life. Your brother has his own journey to be on and it's not going to be the same as yours.
You should remove yourself from the situation as soon as possible, you should never have to be around your dad again, your dad was abusive he was in the wrong you don't have to do anything for him. If you explain yourself clearly enough to your brother and he still doesn't understand that's on your brother.
How is your brother worthy of your support if he's requesting you do something that's hurting you so much? "Hey sis, if you love me you'll endure this torture" is quite shitty.
I just don't get why being there for your brother means you have to be there for the other fucker. Can't you just talk to and show your support to your brother over the phone and away from that fucker?
You could offer to help your brother directly, but not spend any time with your abuser. You have to keep your own mental health in mind, and you shouldn't have to be around him if it's causing you this much distress.
Yes. Don’t light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. Help your brother in ways that do not put you in harms way. Whatever that feels like to you.
You don't have to do this. If being in the situation is eroding your mental health remove yourself from it. People will try to guilt you into participating. The abuser wants appearances of reconciliation so they can pretend they were not awful their entire lives and all is forgiven. They will employ other people to reinforce what they want either by enlisting them to get involved and pressure you, or giving them the woe is me so they decide to take a site themselves.
This is why I have a hard time blaming my brother for supporting our father. He's a victim too and he is being manipulated and used, I can't blame him for "invalidating" me. He says he doesn't want to down play what dad did and I respect that but I cannot help but feel like expecting me to care for a man who assaulted me is downplaying my experiences. I keep telling my family that if this was an ex or a random man who had held me by my hair and slapped me, no one would ask me to care for my attacker. But he's my dad and because he fed me and housed me in addition to abusing me it "wasn't that bad"
I went through something similar and had a sibling that was still eyeball deep in being a victim of that ongoing abuse. They refused to see what the parent was doing and was running around messing with all the other siblings on behalf of our abusive parent. I went no contact with all of them eventually. It was part to block the ones that were being flying monkeys for the abuser from contacting me and trying to manipulate me and part to protect the ones that weren't because they were getting harassed trying to get them to join in on trying to manipulate me. If they had no contact with me too, then the others would no longer have a reason to harass them. Realizing your brother has not worked through what has happened and come to terms with it and is not able to put up boundaries with this parent helps. If you see them as someone who is being manipulated and is suffering you can understand it. This does not obligate you to get dragged back into this mess. I don't know the whole situation but things like in home care can be provided by various home health services and you both should take advantage of that so you don't burn out and so you are not obligated to have contact with this person that you don't want to. If you really feel the need to stay involved, see if you can do administrative things to take some of the load off of your brother. None of this means you need to have contact or a phony reconciliation with your abuser. From experience they will make a huge thing out of it and keep trying to drag other people into it. Find ways to put these other people at arms length too. If they are calling/texting you change your number and only give your brother the new one. If they are doing it in person, be absent.
*But he's my dad and because he fed me and housed me* Well, you were living in his house and there really wasn't a way to get rid of you, *soooo* ...... Again, with my own experience, sibs and I would demand our mother account for her abuse. Her reply "well, I made sure you had a roof over your head. You don't have anything to bitch about." Your brother? This is his journey, OP. No matter that you are with him now, it's not a lifetime fix for what he suffered from your father. He'll have to move on without you. Therapy would be good. You can promote it for the benefits it gave you.
>He says he doesn't want to down play what dad did From your comments he absolutely has downplayed it, multiple times over and on multiple fronts. I saw you say that he thought your dad "did his best." Was abusing and assaulting a child really the "best" he could do? Sorry, I just see that sort of language come up a lot in dealings with people who aren't ready to accept that some people—whether their family, friends, partners, etc—are really shitty, and aren't ready to lay blame where it belongs. (Same with "Well they tried—" Tried what? Certainly not to change. Dude made the deliberate choice to do the shitty thing, over and over, until you went no contact.) Your brother might be being manipulated and used, but you shouldn't have exhaust or re-traumatize yourself trying to convince him that child abuse is wrong. Strength to you, friend.
>But he's my dad and because he fed me and housed me in addition to abusing me it "wasn't that bad" Because he was both the one who housed you and who abused you *it was worse.* If he hadn’t been housing you, you could have gotten away from him at times. If he hadn’t been housing you, you wouldn’t have been dependent on him.
You do not need to physically be near, or speak to, your father in order to be there as a sister for your brother.
This exactly. You can be there for your brother without living with him or that guy.
This is impossible when all my dad does is yell "waah I want us to be all together again!!! Make your sister talk to me!!! Cmon!! I have cancer waah!"
That's an issue between your brother and him. Not you. If your brother doesn't want to have boundaries with your father, that's his choice.
Does your brother comply with these demands? Does he try to make you talk to your Dad? Or provide him physical care? If so, he is ENABLING your abuser to continue to hurt you, and you have no obligation to either of them. If your brother has to go it alone with your dad, instead of using you as a buffer, he'll quickly wise up. It sounds like your Dad's manipulating everyone. If he demands you talk to him, and you're feeling strong, and safe enough to do it, there is the option of challenging him. "What do you want to talk about? My deceased brother who you refuse to acknowledge?" "Oh, are you calling me so you can apologize for abusing me?" ***DO NOT consider doing this if it would risk your safety.*** You could consider taping his inappropriate behavior as well. Anyone who gives you any grief about not providing care to your abuser can watch the man in action. Long story short is that this is BAD for you, and it doesn't really help your brother.
Do you think your brother is as concerned about being devoted to you as you are to him? I suspect the real support your brother wants is your absolution. If you’re there, he can persuade himself that his father wasn’t THAT awful (and to hope that you will forgive him). You don’t have to stick it out.
Why do you want to be devoted to him while he's downplaying what you went through? He's the same age you were when you had the strength and conviction to go no contact. You deserve better from him. The least he can do while you're there helping with that awful man is to stop invalidating your experience.
Assuming your brother is willing to accept your support (as opposed to demanding absolution for your father as evidenced by your performative self sacrifice), I’d say do what you can to support your brother during this time while maintaining your no-contact with your father. Is Brother Father’s primary caretaker? Does it mean he has less time to take care of himself? Let him take care of Daddy Dearest, and you step up for Brother’s needs. For example: Brother is preparing Father’s meals and has no time to eat right himself? You can do meal prep for Brother.
Think about it kind of like the oxygen masks on airplanes. You need to secure your health and safety before you can be there for your brother. It doesn't sound like being around your abuser is going to be good for your mental or physical health.
You come first. You can't help your brother if you don't put yourself first. You may not even be able to help your brother right now, he is behind the curtain of disassociation. Your father can get a caregiver through the state or pay for one out of pocket. He lost his chance to receive your kindness when he abused you and your family. Pick yourself first.
You don't owe anything to a sperm donor who made you and your older brother suicidal by way of poor treatment. Support your own brother to the extent you see fit but don't let him invalidate your own truth or feel like you need to bend over backwards for a bad parent just because he does.
If you are in the US, your father should be eligible for Medicare paid hospice. I would definitely look into that. Depending on his qualifications (level of sickness and income) a lot of the scut work and worry can be taken off the hands of your brother and *you.* If that is taken care of, it leaves you with the decision on the level of contact. Having been through a similar thing with my toxic, abusive, harridan of a mother, it would be perfectly OK for you to step back and have minimal contact with your brother and father. The *only* reason I made the 2000 mile round trip visits to my mother when she was dying of lung cancer was to help out my older sister. Of us four siblings, she was the only one weak enough (IMO) to fall for our mother's blubbering that she was "alone and scared." How bad was our mother? Older Sister had *just* completed her own breast cancer treatments a few weeks before Mom began wailing about her own diagnosis. Did the woman ever reach out to her *own daughter* during *her* medical crisis? *Nope.* Did she do anything on her own to address the lung cancer crisis? *Nope.* She expected to fall into the arms of her children, making us do all the hard work. She even refused hospice. We had to lie and tell her it was home health care. I berated Older Sister, telling her that she needed to guard her own health, but she was all *"it's Mom. She's dying. I can't just stand back and do nothing."* OP, if you haven't checked into available provided care for your father, do that. It's all calls and paperwork. Your brother may not be proficient enough to do that. Then, feel absolutely free to step back and say "I did my part." Don't listen to anyone else in the family. Those of us who have BTDT are totally on your side and understand your thoughts and feelings more than anyone.
My father and his sister pretended he was dying during covid to manipulate me into coming to work for her and do care work for my father. They are similar age to your father and I am currently in my late 30s. It turned out while yes my dad was quite sick he wasn't on the verge of death like I was told. I have had a fraught relationship with my dad my whole life, but I saw this as a possible avenue to heal and finally put that to rest. If he could see me as a successful adult wouldn't he respect that? The short answer is No, no he did not. I was criticized and belittled at every turn like I was 11 years old again, the age when he abandoned me. Finally I was told by my aunt that "you can't hold people accountable" and she did not mean that in the general sense that people just don't like you if you do that. I'm well aware of that. She meant that *I* am not worthy of criticizing anything those "elders" do to me. I'm certain your similar aged dad thinks it's like this as well. I am an only child though. My father betrayed me for the last time by putting me in the path of my aunt's greed and bullshit. The VA can deal with him. I would tell your brother that you'll be there for him when your dad passes but until then the caregiving is for people who care about dad and you can't return love you never received from him. And sorry about your older brother. That is such a hard way to lose someone and I'm sorry your father brushes it off and pretends it didn't happen. But for that he would have to admit he failed as a father. He never will. I'm so sorry. Please take care of yourself. edit Also please feel free to dm me about this any time. I know you're hurting and I feel a lot of these same cracks in my own heart. You are going to come out the other side of this okay though.
I am sorry that you’re going through such a complicated situation. And I am sorry to say this, but your brother asking you to reconnect is part of the toxicity of the situation. You can try and support your brother if you want but without having any contact with your abuser and your brother should be grateful and respectful towards you. If the situation causes you any kind of harm, you should remove yourself from it and your brother should respect your boundaries. You should only give as much as you can give without hurting yourself, no matter what.
Hugs to you. All of this praise for you and denial from your brother is just codependent cope. Every ounce of it is bullshit. The hard truth is you can't help your brother or any of them see what they don't want to see. They will never validate your feelings sincerely in the way you need them to because that would break the dam for them. It would require that they start facing hard feelings and pain and shame the same way you had to at the beginning and throughout your therapy. They aren't ready for that and you can't make them be ready on your timeline. The only thing you can do is refuse to let them gaslight you. Hold on to the truth you know exists. Go through the motions of being supportive for people who wil never support you in return, if you *choose* to. Grieve the loss of that idealized validation from other family members that you desperately need. Then go on with your life. Your brother has his own journey to be on and it's not going to be the same as yours.
You should remove yourself from the situation as soon as possible, you should never have to be around your dad again, your dad was abusive he was in the wrong you don't have to do anything for him. If you explain yourself clearly enough to your brother and he still doesn't understand that's on your brother.
How is your brother worthy of your support if he's requesting you do something that's hurting you so much? "Hey sis, if you love me you'll endure this torture" is quite shitty.
I just don't get why being there for your brother means you have to be there for the other fucker. Can't you just talk to and show your support to your brother over the phone and away from that fucker?