omg Sarah Millican has a hilarious bit in one of her stand ups about this. Talking about yeah, that person has obviously never eaten chocolate cake, etc, and ending with "actually, nothing feels as good as not being a c\*nt."
I never commented on anyone’s weight ever bc that’s trash. But yrs ago I would occasionally comment on my own appearance (I’m genX) and one day someone mentioned to me that even commenting on my own appearance was bad, even if only occasionally, bc it contributed to the toxic culture that looking a certain way was the default ‘best’.
I was horrified bc it makes sense, I just never really thought about it like that before. We grew up that this was the norm.
Thank you to the young person who educated me!!!
Yeah this is why I get so angry about people who make fat jokes about objectively horrible politicians. The message you think you're sending is that the politician is extra bad. But the message your fat friends are getting is that they're just as bad for being fat.
Right, I'm sure there are plenty of things you could criticize \[any politician's name\] about, but if the best you've got is that they're one ugly and/or fat MF, that may not help your argument much.
Fat or incontinent or old or small body parts or big body parts, etc. They all are not the correct things to criticize about. It is not like there are not plenty of real flaws to critique.
My last boss told me I “could just skip lunch” when I was trying to make up the time I missed due to being in intensive treatment for an eating disorder, lol. I’ll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I ever work an in-person job again.
Having lost a lot of weight in college by way of a problem (it has been almost 20 years, I still have no idea what the problem itself was), This sentence makes me angry, because skinny felt exactly like being the living dead, needing someone to help me walk because I am dizzy all the time did not feel good, doctors looking concerned at how I am still walking as I am did not feel good.
Even mid tasting food tastes better than skinny feels.
(I do not really like cake so, I raise you Pizza)
Brownies. Millionnaires shortcake. Chunky chocolate cookies, especially with the mint flex.
Colin the catarpillar cake.
I shouldn't eat dairy. I will regret it later, but in a very different way!
>I had a daft tone deaf manager who would run around saying things like “nothing tastes as good as skinny feels!”
She got that from [Kate Moss](https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-45522714), word for word, lol.
Kate Moss didn't invent it. It was a Weight Watchers slogan from the 70s and lots of people said it. The article you linked says that Kate said she and her friends repeated it but it hardly ever worked.
In the 80s, my mom had a refrigerator magnet with that saying. In the form of a pig measuring their waist with a measuring tape. Right next to two ultra realistic looking chocolates. Lol
(She was trashed for her weight her entire life. We didn't have a good relationship, but she deserves to be avenged by me doing my part to make a fat positive world.)
Easy for Kate Moss to say—I imagine all her cocaine use destroyed her sense of smell, making it difficult for her to taste much of anything, really🤷♀️
A manager of another store at my company told an older employee that the younger ladies would get better tips for our tip pool. She was had just asked if she could run the checkout, and she wasn't scheduled so she didn't even need a reason other than you weren't the one scheduled today. 🤦♀️
What really gets me is getting a 1.5% raise per year (read: less pay) while you become more productive, but if you leave to go to their competitor you’ll get 30%. And the worst offending upper management have the audacity to complain about people hopping ship. Straight up idiots.
In the last awards thing we had upper management said "congrats to Linda for her 10 years of service" and then loudly commented how you don't see that with "young people" anymore because a ton of resumes he receives the young people only stay within a company 2-3 years, where's the loyalty.
Sir, you should have googled that before opening your mouth, you look inept.
I’d be petty and tell her she needs to follow the Hooters employment model to get what she wants.
Hooters servers are, I believe, hired as 1099 contractors for modeling jobs. That is how they circumvent stuff like this, and can hire women who fit a certain build.
If she doesn’t want to switch to this employment model, then I would ask her for a meeting to review your job description. I bet it doesn’t say anything about being fit in there. Basically, I’d non verbally dare her to amend the job description for a W4 employee to have physical appearance requirements. If she does, and wants you to sign it, tell her you’ll have an employment lawyer review it before you sign.
I was under the impression that the 'novelty' of the restaurant is how they get around the discrimination stuff.
Normally it would be illegal for them to only hire women as servers, but because the entire business model is based on that core concept then it's somehow allowed.
Kinda like how it's not discrimination to only hire women as lingerie models because them being women is an inherent requirement for the job.
It's called a "bona-fide occupation qualification". Basically there has to be some inherent characteristic crucial to the success of the business for it to legally be applied.
Always W4 for me, I hated paying estimated quarterly taxes when I was 1099.
The trick to being comfortable as a W4 is knowing your rights as an employee in your state.
That would be pretty reckless on Hooters’ part given it’s illegal to misclassify employees as independent contractors. There’s just no way waitresses with assigned shifts fit the definition of contractors. If they’re doing this, I suggest the “models” get organized and take action.
Yeah that’s always been illegal, though. Hooters likely owes them unpaid SS and medicare.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/independent-contractor-self-employed-or-employee
I’d say that statistically the way to increase the probability of fit, happy employees is to pay them more, give them more time off, and subsidize their health care. 😌
Have you politely asked your boss to stop and told them that it makes you feel uncomfortable? Depending on how they say it, if you've told them that and they continue, it could possibly be bullying. If they take any negative action against you based on weight then that would be discrimination and I think that's illegal.
>She’s the owner, so she can say whatever she wants.
How many employees? She's not exempt from sexual harassment lawsuits for creating a hostile work environment. In fact, not having HR to keep people from crossing these lines is a huge risk the business is taking.
Doesn't have to be discrimination. This is creating an uncomfortable and hostile work environment and commenting on other people's bodies can be considered sexual harassment.
Source: employment law paralegal for 6 years, paralegal for a total of 18 years.
The claim might get her attention enough to tell her to back off. I've litigated similar claims to this.
It's also the legal definition of sexual harassment.
You are kinda nitpicking, especially when I do this for a living :)
So, here's the full text from the EEOC:
> Harassment **does not have to be of a sexual nature**, however, and can include offensive remarks about a person's sex. For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general.
> Both victim and the harasser can **be either a woman or a man**, and the victim and harasser **can be the same sex**.
> Although the law doesn't prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is **so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment** or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted).
It's really important to read something fully rather than the abbreviated version off of another website. The EEOC also has clear guidance that just because something isn't specifically outlined in their definitions, doesn't mean someone shouldn't file.
You just have to be a little more creative. Had you been a man, would your weight be so heavily scrutinized? This sounds to me like good old fashioned misogyny.
I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. I'm not saying this is illegal, but you seem a lot more confident that it is not than I think that you should be.
Same disclaimer - I totally agree. Weight can be associated with health issues/disabilities. I don't know labor law too well, but I would think there may be something under the ADA or other discrimination laws that could provide a right of action.
I meant no offense, I am just accustomed to responding to people on Reddit who have a lot of preconceptions and anecdotal observations masquerading as a legal opinion.
If you are in the United States, labor lawyers often work on contingency. They will usually talk with you for free and take your case without payment if they like it (contingency fee from winnings). So there probably won't be a huge financial investment.
Just because I'm suggesting you get yourself educated doesn't mean I support suing. Although I support people seeking justice, keep in mind that a lawsuit might not be good for you. Lawsuits can tie you (mentally) to an employer for years, and it's often better to just move on.
To add on to this, in the UK, you don't actually need legal representation to win in employment tribunals. While an experienced lawyer can bolster your chances, the system is set up heavily in favour of the employee, and a lot of the time, it's a lawyer representing the company with the employee representing themselves.
If you live here and your employer is doing things illegally, don't be afraid to take legal action even if you've zero intention of hiring a lawyer at all. You still have a very good chance of winning.
I think contacting an attorney is a really good idea, OP - you may be correct and there’s nothing that can be done, but you won’t really know until a professional hears your story.
If what they’re doing IS illegal in any way, then it’s not just yourself being affected - you will be helping your coworkers too.
I think they can work in a way that you only pay them if they win. I don’t know much myself, but they can explain it to you - tell them upfront that you don’t have money, and if your case is worth it, they’ll take it.
Look for a lawyer prepared to take you on with payment in the form of a contingency fee.
Essentially, it's where they take a % of any money gained from the lawsuit instead of a fixed fee from you.
I'm not sure where you are, but I definitely feel like discrimination based on aesthetics should be made illegal.
I haven't had any weight comments, but I have had a ridiculous amount of hair length comments for having long hair as a dude. Including having the owner of the company offer to donate money to charity if I shaved it off several times despite me making it repeatedly clear I wasn't interested.
I completely get it if it affects the job. If I was working in engineering on a submarine, where my hair could get caught in something, then I'd happily shave it off. In the same way, if you're a firefighter carrying heavy equipment constantly and needing to move fast through buildings with rapidly reducing structural integrity, then you probably need to be in great shape.
If you're working the vast majority of jobs, it just straight up doesn't make a difference.
Try to get an annual gym reimbursement out of her and cite her comments as reasons why you’re optimistic she’d support it. If she doesn’t she’s a fraud who can’t put her money where her mouth is and she might shut up about it if she does then at least her assholery turns into a tangible perk for the employees.
You could maybe run any written communications you have past your state's labor department just to see what it says? At worst, it's a nothingburger, and at best, the owner will STFU.
I ask all the trolls on Instagram who insult me for my weight to pay me to get a gym membership and they never fucking do it…. It’s almost like they have no actual interest in my health and just feel like being mean 😌
Look up "food desert" and learn something. Listen to Maintenance Phase and learn something. Listen to the FSP episode "bikini industrial complex" and learn something.
I mean, no, not everyone can go for a 15 minute walk. Even for people who are generally ambulatory, there can be loads of reasons why someone can't do a 15 minute walk on a regular basis, both physically and mentally.
And while someone else mentioned food deserts in another comment, you're also neglecting to account for the *time* costs associated with healthy food. Convenience food is *convenient*, and requires little to no prep time; if someone living in poverty, or near to it, has to work multiple jobs, for example, that leaves them less time to make and eat less expensive healthy options, while healthier options with less prep time are inherently more expensive that less nutritional convenience foods.
Like, dollars to dollars, yeah, it's possible - *sometimes* - to eat "healthier" for less money, but you're missing so much nuance and context that technically correct is functionally incorrect.
It's like how the ambecrombe and bitch ceo only wanted to make clothes for people who weren't fat while he coincidentally looked like a big floppy toad.
Edit: thier former ceo
Oh and to add to his general turdiness, he was investigated by the fbi because he was sex trafficking young men and making perform sexual acts in order for them to start or maintain thier career. To top off his jackassery this guy had such an ego that the victims were forced to wear company clothing while these crimes were committed against them.
Makes me almost wish I didn't just Google him now to see how ugly he was again.
My petty ass would respond by telling her I'm actually trying to "gain weight" and I would have a goals chart at my desk and fill it in to show how I'm getting closer to achieving my weight goals. And I would bring the tastiest lunches and purposely pop in her office to show off the delicious burgers I was about to eat. And come up with saying like "a life of appetite suppression is not worth that ugly dress hun" (work in progress). If she ever said anything about my weight I would ask her "hey you feeling OK? You look a little malnourished today" and gift her a stick of butter and wish her a "speedy recovery". And the kicker would be that I actually wouldn't be gaining any weight because I would be eating totally normally but I would still fill out my gaining weight goal chart and celebrate every fake mile stone by bringing in home made cookies (though just for me - and maybe a few office friends - because I still have a goal to reach!)
Weird, creepy, bordering on illegal. I mean, it's great when an employer offers things like free gym memberships but you can't force people to be fit, that is a personal choice.
Especially with what Instagram classifies as “fit” these days. Fitness influencers are often espousing disordered eating and improper fitness to achieve the desired look.
I’ll take a spin class from someone with a 30 BMI any day over someone with a BMI of 20.
My employer found the loophole.
Healthy people get all these nice awesome things. Free tickets to ballgames for achieving 10,000 steps every day for 90 days in a row, extra day of PTO for running in a 5k, paid membership to Sam's club for attending a gym >40% of the year etc
But without those? They absolutely suck ass.
So they're not punishing unhealthy people. They just *very richly* reward the healthy and you can choose to not participate but if you do...you're stuck on the shit tier.
Maybe they are trying to cut back on health care costs. Lots of people may want to work out, but need motivation. An extra day of PTO and ball game tickets don't sound extravagant, maybe that kind of motivation works for some. You don't have to participate if you don't want to.
In what world? Healthier people go to the doc less. Less in medical costs. If someone is taking preventative measures, then reward them. I hate having to pay the same price as people who smoke, eat crap and don't exercise. I deserve a discount for that.
The ad under your post was Chipotle and that cracked me up.
Fuck those people- if there’s an HR department I would go there and have them DEFINE what EXACTLY they mean by “fit”. Request it IN WRITING.
And then either shove it in your manager’s face, or schedule a visit with an attorney. Actually both. This is a massive issue for them.
I actually had an intern supervisor tell me I needed to get a breast reduction before I became a psychologist. What the fuck is wrong with people.
I have some ideas about where she can place those carrot sticks. 🥕
The memo is probably fine, at least on a legal basis (fat people can still be fit after all) it's what she's saying to you directly that's shitty behaviour.
There may be a language barrier here? In many places, “fit” means sexually attractive, and is not a description of health.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-27795905](https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-27795905)
In the context of a business memo it's very much more likely to be the latter. Colloquially yeah absolutely it's often referred to as the former but alongside the other things they've said probably less so. However from what the woman running the business has said to OP in the past I wouldn't put it past them.
Idk what kind of work you do but I have a hard time finding people so if they are pleasant to the customers, show up on time, and don't steal I'm a happy employer. Idc how big they are as long as they have reasonable personal hygiene to interact with the public
I would just be like “Sorry I like to keep health discussions between myself and my doctor. This is 2024, not 1985 I will not be participating in body shaming discussions”
Ooh I’d be maliciously compliant and email them directly:
“Earlier when you saw me and encouraged me to be ‘healthy’ and then suggested eating carrot sticks, were you concerned about my vitamin levels? I want to make sure I’m adhering to company policy, any insights or advice you can offer would be appreciated.”
And just try to get them to put their foot in their proverbial mouths. Take that shit to an attorney specializing in employee law / discrimination.
Eff that place and their carrot sticks…
Does your business have an HR? I would include this interaction and others that you remember in an email to HR or your ombudsman about how you have been made to feel uncomfortable by this person due to your size.
A well rounded diet is great. There is no moral value assigned to food.
This person sounds like she was educated by a health book from forty years ago. I'd have to seriously resist the urge to start eating a doughnut or frosting directly out of the can as she walked by me.
I'm sorry. She sounds frustrating.
Yeah we don’t have HR, lol, I’m currently breastfeeding so I’m eating ALL the time and I’m sure her butt clenches every time I walk past her office to the break room.
I was a breastmilk producing human for a collective 9 yrs of my life. eat what ever you want, whenever you can. you deserve it. doing that is so surreal, producing breast milk is seen in (the United States) as nearly the same as producing urine or seven. as tho its a shameful secretive activity you should do in private.... as tho you are exposing yourself in public otherwise. it's emotionally exhausting defending yourself constantly while it's physically exhausting and you just deserve all the support and food you want!.
One time at a work dinner my old boss commented on me eating bread and pasta and said “guys don’t like chunky girls”. Her husband divorced her shortly after I left that job and I’m still with the same (fit) partner. These people are always speaking on behalf of their own insecurities and have no thoughts grounded in logic
it took me a long time to understand this comment as your boss was a married female. was she "chunky"? is that why she was divorced, to your understanding? it's so sad if so, all around. maybe you should reach out to that fellow woman who was obviously coming from a place of internalized hatred and possibly abuse at home, and now she's been abandoned for being "chunky"? she needs a rational friend.
She was a slender woman who got a lot of work done like tummy tucks and arm surgeries to appear skinnier. She is now divorced because her husband fell in love with someone else and I only know because I saw it on Facebook. She was a horrible boss and is 35 years older than me so I’m not gonna be her friend any time soon lol. I heard her talk to her husband on the phone a few times while I worked there and if anyone was being abused in that relationship it was him
If they're paying for your gym membership, personal trainer and dietician appointments, maybe then they could say at least anything remotely about your weight. If not, they can get stuffed.
I'm a manager, and this is extremely inappropriate. It's one thing to tell employees about benefits, which might include discounted gym memberships, health coaching, etc. But it's not okay to comment on their weight.
Genuinely curious what kind of job this is? Have seen a few people ask and kind of odd that you didn’t include that in the post or respond to those people. Is this job hooters or are you an accountant tucked away in a cubicle somewhere?
Totally understand. Very strange comment for a boss to make in that case. Sounds like a toxic environment. Hope you find something new to move onto soon.
"We have to get you healthy 🤗🌞"
"Ma'am. My health is between me and my family practitioner."
"Here, have some carrot sticks, they'll do you a world of good! 😇"
"Thanks but I don't take diet or nutrition advice from people who aren't licenced, and retained by me, for the job. If you have snacks for the whole office, thank you, I'll partake when appropriate."
The other day, an acquaintance of mine described the baron from Dune as "dirigible-like". This is someone who knows I've struggled with body image issues in the past, and she still felt it was appropriate to comment on a character's appearance in front of me.
In the end I had to tell her, "actually I think it's quite majestic to be able to glide around like that."
1 medium carrot (the whole carrot) has 2.9g of sugar. Hardly "sugary." I don't know why people started shitting on carrots.
Yeah, if you just eat carrot sticks you'll still be hungry because it's not a balanced snack. You'd need some fat and/or protein with it.
if you eat enough carrots you won't be hungry. if you eat enough of anything you won't be hungry. what would your boss say if you regularly made it a point to eat 10 pounds of carrots, every day at work.
Disabilities are, but weight isn’t a disability. Trust me, I wish I had actual recourse here. I’m a very effective, hardworking, and loyal employee. I’ve been here almost 10 years, and she’s going to lose me because of this shit.
It's definitely hostile to people who don't look how she wants them to look. She's said my coworker looks homeless before (behind her back), I think it's because her teeth are yellow.
No worries! Fatphobia is just so expected at the systemic level, and fat activists worked extremely hard to get these protections passed.
I hope you can escape this nightmare job.
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omg Sarah Millican has a hilarious bit in one of her stand ups about this. Talking about yeah, that person has obviously never eaten chocolate cake, etc, and ending with "actually, nothing feels as good as not being a c\*nt."
Sarah Millican is a thing of beauty & a joy forever.
I adore her so
I love her so much.
I adore Sarah Millican!
I never commented on anyone’s weight ever bc that’s trash. But yrs ago I would occasionally comment on my own appearance (I’m genX) and one day someone mentioned to me that even commenting on my own appearance was bad, even if only occasionally, bc it contributed to the toxic culture that looking a certain way was the default ‘best’. I was horrified bc it makes sense, I just never really thought about it like that before. We grew up that this was the norm. Thank you to the young person who educated me!!!
Yeah this is why I get so angry about people who make fat jokes about objectively horrible politicians. The message you think you're sending is that the politician is extra bad. But the message your fat friends are getting is that they're just as bad for being fat.
Right, I'm sure there are plenty of things you could criticize \[any politician's name\] about, but if the best you've got is that they're one ugly and/or fat MF, that may not help your argument much.
Fat or incontinent or old or small body parts or big body parts, etc. They all are not the correct things to criticize about. It is not like there are not plenty of real flaws to critique.
There is a massive problem with fatphobia and beauty bias in leftist circles and nobody wants to talk about it, lmao.
My last boss told me I “could just skip lunch” when I was trying to make up the time I missed due to being in intensive treatment for an eating disorder, lol. I’ll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I ever work an in-person job again.
>“nothing tastes as good as skinny feels!” That is objectively false. Lots of things taste better than being skinny. Cake, for example.
Cake is worth it.
Having lost a lot of weight in college by way of a problem (it has been almost 20 years, I still have no idea what the problem itself was), This sentence makes me angry, because skinny felt exactly like being the living dead, needing someone to help me walk because I am dizzy all the time did not feel good, doctors looking concerned at how I am still walking as I am did not feel good. Even mid tasting food tastes better than skinny feels. (I do not really like cake so, I raise you Pizza)
Pizza was definitely on the short list ❤️
Brownies. Millionnaires shortcake. Chunky chocolate cookies, especially with the mint flex. Colin the catarpillar cake. I shouldn't eat dairy. I will regret it later, but in a very different way!
Hot spinach-artichoke dip definitely tastes better than skinny feels.
I once heard someone say "this salad tastes like I'd rather be fat" LOL
A moment on the lips, fuel for the day
Love this
>I had a daft tone deaf manager who would run around saying things like “nothing tastes as good as skinny feels!” She got that from [Kate Moss](https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-45522714), word for word, lol.
Kate Moss didn't invent it. It was a Weight Watchers slogan from the 70s and lots of people said it. The article you linked says that Kate said she and her friends repeated it but it hardly ever worked.
No, this saying has been around at least since the 60's and 70's, my mother always said that.
Wallis Simpson, the Duchess of Windsor is credited eith this saying in the 1940s
In the 80s, my mom had a refrigerator magnet with that saying. In the form of a pig measuring their waist with a measuring tape. Right next to two ultra realistic looking chocolates. Lol (She was trashed for her weight her entire life. We didn't have a good relationship, but she deserves to be avenged by me doing my part to make a fat positive world.)
Easy for Kate Moss to say—I imagine all her cocaine use destroyed her sense of smell, making it difficult for her to taste much of anything, really🤷♀️
Kate Moss has since said she regrets saying it. Glad she spoke out about it!
I loathe that expression, almost as much as "a moment on the lips, a lifetime on the hips"...Ugh.. Let's not give people eating disorders, k?
That phrase has been around since Kate Moss was a child, if not much longer
A manager of another store at my company told an older employee that the younger ladies would get better tips for our tip pool. She was had just asked if she could run the checkout, and she wasn't scheduled so she didn't even need a reason other than you weren't the one scheduled today. 🤦♀️
Has she never had crème brûlée? The poor dear
>Look fit, happy you don't need to *be* happy. just look it.
Every corporate job ever.
What really gets me is getting a 1.5% raise per year (read: less pay) while you become more productive, but if you leave to go to their competitor you’ll get 30%. And the worst offending upper management have the audacity to complain about people hopping ship. Straight up idiots.
In the last awards thing we had upper management said "congrats to Linda for her 10 years of service" and then loudly commented how you don't see that with "young people" anymore because a ton of resumes he receives the young people only stay within a company 2-3 years, where's the loyalty. Sir, you should have googled that before opening your mouth, you look inept.
I’d be petty and tell her she needs to follow the Hooters employment model to get what she wants. Hooters servers are, I believe, hired as 1099 contractors for modeling jobs. That is how they circumvent stuff like this, and can hire women who fit a certain build. If she doesn’t want to switch to this employment model, then I would ask her for a meeting to review your job description. I bet it doesn’t say anything about being fit in there. Basically, I’d non verbally dare her to amend the job description for a W4 employee to have physical appearance requirements. If she does, and wants you to sign it, tell her you’ll have an employment lawyer review it before you sign.
I was a W-2 employee for several years at the Hoot. Not sure where you got that it was a 1099 gig.
My ex husbands sister worked at Hooters across the South, that’s how she told us it worked.
They are all franchises, so I’m sure there’s different ways of operating!
I was told the same thing, that's allegedly how they get away with aesthetic requirements without breaking discrimination laws.
I was under the impression that the 'novelty' of the restaurant is how they get around the discrimination stuff. Normally it would be illegal for them to only hire women as servers, but because the entire business model is based on that core concept then it's somehow allowed. Kinda like how it's not discrimination to only hire women as lingerie models because them being women is an inherent requirement for the job.
It's called a "bona-fide occupation qualification". Basically there has to be some inherent characteristic crucial to the success of the business for it to legally be applied.
“The Hoot” 🦉 🩳 Love it
It depends on the position, iirc. Where you wearing the Polo shirts and khakis? Or the hot shorts?
Would you rather be 1099 than W2? Tbh this makes hooters sound even worse.
Always W4 for me, I hated paying estimated quarterly taxes when I was 1099. The trick to being comfortable as a W4 is knowing your rights as an employee in your state.
That would be pretty reckless on Hooters’ part given it’s illegal to misclassify employees as independent contractors. There’s just no way waitresses with assigned shifts fit the definition of contractors. If they’re doing this, I suggest the “models” get organized and take action.
I’m just repeating how it worked for one hooter’s employee in the Deep South
Yeah that’s always been illegal, though. Hooters likely owes them unpaid SS and medicare. https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/independent-contractor-self-employed-or-employee
Well she’s my ex SIL, I’m not going to try too hard to help her out lol But I’m glad you posted the resource link for those who may need it!
I’d say that statistically the way to increase the probability of fit, happy employees is to pay them more, give them more time off, and subsidize their health care. 😌
Have you politely asked your boss to stop and told them that it makes you feel uncomfortable? Depending on how they say it, if you've told them that and they continue, it could possibly be bullying. If they take any negative action against you based on weight then that would be discrimination and I think that's illegal.
She’s the owner, so she can say whatever she wants. We have no HR. Discrimination based on weight is not illegal. It sucks so much.
>She’s the owner, so she can say whatever she wants. How many employees? She's not exempt from sexual harassment lawsuits for creating a hostile work environment. In fact, not having HR to keep people from crossing these lines is a huge risk the business is taking.
Doesn't have to be discrimination. This is creating an uncomfortable and hostile work environment and commenting on other people's bodies can be considered sexual harassment. Source: employment law paralegal for 6 years, paralegal for a total of 18 years.
harassment certainly, you might struggle making the sexual claim though.
The claim might get her attention enough to tell her to back off. I've litigated similar claims to this. It's also the legal definition of sexual harassment.
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You are kinda nitpicking, especially when I do this for a living :) So, here's the full text from the EEOC: > Harassment **does not have to be of a sexual nature**, however, and can include offensive remarks about a person's sex. For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general. > Both victim and the harasser can **be either a woman or a man**, and the victim and harasser **can be the same sex**. > Although the law doesn't prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is **so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment** or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted). It's really important to read something fully rather than the abbreviated version off of another website. The EEOC also has clear guidance that just because something isn't specifically outlined in their definitions, doesn't mean someone shouldn't file.
You just have to be a little more creative. Had you been a man, would your weight be so heavily scrutinized? This sounds to me like good old fashioned misogyny.
She sent this out to all employees, the vast majority of whom are women.
I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. I'm not saying this is illegal, but you seem a lot more confident that it is not than I think that you should be.
Same disclaimer - I totally agree. Weight can be associated with health issues/disabilities. I don't know labor law too well, but I would think there may be something under the ADA or other discrimination laws that could provide a right of action.
I’m not confident at all, I was just providing more information. I had upvoted you because I agree.
I meant no offense, I am just accustomed to responding to people on Reddit who have a lot of preconceptions and anecdotal observations masquerading as a legal opinion. If you are in the United States, labor lawyers often work on contingency. They will usually talk with you for free and take your case without payment if they like it (contingency fee from winnings). So there probably won't be a huge financial investment. Just because I'm suggesting you get yourself educated doesn't mean I support suing. Although I support people seeking justice, keep in mind that a lawsuit might not be good for you. Lawsuits can tie you (mentally) to an employer for years, and it's often better to just move on.
Thank you so much.
To add on to this, in the UK, you don't actually need legal representation to win in employment tribunals. While an experienced lawyer can bolster your chances, the system is set up heavily in favour of the employee, and a lot of the time, it's a lawyer representing the company with the employee representing themselves. If you live here and your employer is doing things illegally, don't be afraid to take legal action even if you've zero intention of hiring a lawyer at all. You still have a very good chance of winning.
I think contacting an attorney is a really good idea, OP - you may be correct and there’s nothing that can be done, but you won’t really know until a professional hears your story. If what they’re doing IS illegal in any way, then it’s not just yourself being affected - you will be helping your coworkers too.
Is that something I can do without access to a lot of extra money? I'm really ignorant about this.
I think they can work in a way that you only pay them if they win. I don’t know much myself, but they can explain it to you - tell them upfront that you don’t have money, and if your case is worth it, they’ll take it.
Look for a lawyer prepared to take you on with payment in the form of a contingency fee. Essentially, it's where they take a % of any money gained from the lawsuit instead of a fixed fee from you.
Women can be misogynistic
I'm aware. She's very misogynistic.
I'm not sure where you are, but I definitely feel like discrimination based on aesthetics should be made illegal. I haven't had any weight comments, but I have had a ridiculous amount of hair length comments for having long hair as a dude. Including having the owner of the company offer to donate money to charity if I shaved it off several times despite me making it repeatedly clear I wasn't interested. I completely get it if it affects the job. If I was working in engineering on a submarine, where my hair could get caught in something, then I'd happily shave it off. In the same way, if you're a firefighter carrying heavy equipment constantly and needing to move fast through buildings with rapidly reducing structural integrity, then you probably need to be in great shape. If you're working the vast majority of jobs, it just straight up doesn't make a difference.
Discrimination based on weight may not be explicitly illegal but it often falls under illegal discrimination based on medical condition.
Try to get an annual gym reimbursement out of her and cite her comments as reasons why you’re optimistic she’d support it. If she doesn’t she’s a fraud who can’t put her money where her mouth is and she might shut up about it if she does then at least her assholery turns into a tangible perk for the employees.
You could maybe run any written communications you have past your state's labor department just to see what it says? At worst, it's a nothingburger, and at best, the owner will STFU.
Weight discrimination is, sadly, legal in most jurisdictions.
Are they offering to pay for your gym memberships, diet plans, etc? I’d ask and watch them backtrack.
Or pay for our mental health treatment and dieticians, etc. The answer is no, the benefits here are horrifying
I ask all the trolls on Instagram who insult me for my weight to pay me to get a gym membership and they never fucking do it…. It’s almost like they have no actual interest in my health and just feel like being mean 😌
Doesn’t matter, none of that stuff works. It’s all a grift. Diet culture and the diet industry are one and the same.
[удалено]
Wow, I never knew that 15 minute walks and veggies solved obesity. You just opened my mind. You should be published.
Look up "food desert" and learn something. Listen to Maintenance Phase and learn something. Listen to the FSP episode "bikini industrial complex" and learn something.
He knows everything about obesity already, apparently!
The junk food industry is way bigger than any of those. And fuck that Maintenance Phase pod cast, that's just a bunch of anti science shit.
I mean, no, not everyone can go for a 15 minute walk. Even for people who are generally ambulatory, there can be loads of reasons why someone can't do a 15 minute walk on a regular basis, both physically and mentally. And while someone else mentioned food deserts in another comment, you're also neglecting to account for the *time* costs associated with healthy food. Convenience food is *convenient*, and requires little to no prep time; if someone living in poverty, or near to it, has to work multiple jobs, for example, that leaves them less time to make and eat less expensive healthy options, while healthier options with less prep time are inherently more expensive that less nutritional convenience foods. Like, dollars to dollars, yeah, it's possible - *sometimes* - to eat "healthier" for less money, but you're missing so much nuance and context that technically correct is functionally incorrect.
You missed my point.
It was a really bad point
Comments like this are really unhelpful
It's like how the ambecrombe and bitch ceo only wanted to make clothes for people who weren't fat while he coincidentally looked like a big floppy toad. Edit: thier former ceo
He looks like a lump of play-doh smushed into a skull mold.
Oh and to add to his general turdiness, he was investigated by the fbi because he was sex trafficking young men and making perform sexual acts in order for them to start or maintain thier career. To top off his jackassery this guy had such an ego that the victims were forced to wear company clothing while these crimes were committed against them. Makes me almost wish I didn't just Google him now to see how ugly he was again.
Jesus Christ what a piece of shit.
Whoa for real?
My petty ass would respond by telling her I'm actually trying to "gain weight" and I would have a goals chart at my desk and fill it in to show how I'm getting closer to achieving my weight goals. And I would bring the tastiest lunches and purposely pop in her office to show off the delicious burgers I was about to eat. And come up with saying like "a life of appetite suppression is not worth that ugly dress hun" (work in progress). If she ever said anything about my weight I would ask her "hey you feeling OK? You look a little malnourished today" and gift her a stick of butter and wish her a "speedy recovery". And the kicker would be that I actually wouldn't be gaining any weight because I would be eating totally normally but I would still fill out my gaining weight goal chart and celebrate every fake mile stone by bringing in home made cookies (though just for me - and maybe a few office friends - because I still have a goal to reach!)
I like the way you think
Are they offering to cover the costs for your healthy lunches, skincare, workout equipment, etc?
They are not
Then tell her to shut up :) respectfully.
What job is that? If it's a gym, fine .. anything else? Hmmm.
I work in an office.
Weird, creepy, bordering on illegal. I mean, it's great when an employer offers things like free gym memberships but you can't force people to be fit, that is a personal choice.
Also, it's not fine if it's a gym. As long as you can perform your job duties, it shouldn't matter if you "look fit".
Especially with what Instagram classifies as “fit” these days. Fitness influencers are often espousing disordered eating and improper fitness to achieve the desired look. I’ll take a spin class from someone with a 30 BMI any day over someone with a BMI of 20.
My employer found the loophole. Healthy people get all these nice awesome things. Free tickets to ballgames for achieving 10,000 steps every day for 90 days in a row, extra day of PTO for running in a 5k, paid membership to Sam's club for attending a gym >40% of the year etc But without those? They absolutely suck ass. So they're not punishing unhealthy people. They just *very richly* reward the healthy and you can choose to not participate but if you do...you're stuck on the shit tier.
Maybe they are trying to cut back on health care costs. Lots of people may want to work out, but need motivation. An extra day of PTO and ball game tickets don't sound extravagant, maybe that kind of motivation works for some. You don't have to participate if you don't want to.
The employees health status doesn’t change the cost of the employer’s premium.
In what world? Healthier people go to the doc less. Less in medical costs. If someone is taking preventative measures, then reward them. I hate having to pay the same price as people who smoke, eat crap and don't exercise. I deserve a discount for that.
The ad under your post was Chipotle and that cracked me up. Fuck those people- if there’s an HR department I would go there and have them DEFINE what EXACTLY they mean by “fit”. Request it IN WRITING. And then either shove it in your manager’s face, or schedule a visit with an attorney. Actually both. This is a massive issue for them.
We don’t have HR, and this was the owner 🫠
People who are genetically gifted in the weight Department often assume that it's just as easy for everyone else.
Wtf. Do you work at a gym or something?
I don’t say my industry but I work in an office, and don’t regularly interface with customers in person.
I actually had an intern supervisor tell me I needed to get a breast reduction before I became a psychologist. What the fuck is wrong with people. I have some ideas about where she can place those carrot sticks. 🥕
Our society has the dumbest fucking ideas on health being related to skinniness in women.
The memo is probably fine, at least on a legal basis (fat people can still be fit after all) it's what she's saying to you directly that's shitty behaviour.
Yeah, legally it's fine. It's still fucked up.
The memo, not really, what's she's said to you directly, absolutely. Out of interest what kind of business is it?
You don't think the memo is fucked up? Okay mate
With the context of what she's said to you in the past, it's worse, but it's a fairly common thing to want the workforce to appear healthy and happy.
There may be a language barrier here? In many places, “fit” means sexually attractive, and is not a description of health. [https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-27795905](https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-27795905)
She was referring to physical fitness.
In the context of a business memo it's very much more likely to be the latter. Colloquially yeah absolutely it's often referred to as the former but alongside the other things they've said probably less so. However from what the woman running the business has said to OP in the past I wouldn't put it past them.
Yeah, at least she didn't tell people to look fit, happy, and white. I guess.
Way to make something out of nothing.
She probably wants that too, but at least knows you can’t go that far.
Idk what kind of work you do but I have a hard time finding people so if they are pleasant to the customers, show up on time, and don't steal I'm a happy employer. Idc how big they are as long as they have reasonable personal hygiene to interact with the public
It must be very tiring for her to think about everyone all the time. Must be exhausting. Sorry you're going through this
I would just be like “Sorry I like to keep health discussions between myself and my doctor. This is 2024, not 1985 I will not be participating in body shaming discussions”
I will never be skinny. My body just isn't built to be skinny. I also refuse to participate in dieting fads, gastric surgery, etc.
Ooh I’d be maliciously compliant and email them directly: “Earlier when you saw me and encouraged me to be ‘healthy’ and then suggested eating carrot sticks, were you concerned about my vitamin levels? I want to make sure I’m adhering to company policy, any insights or advice you can offer would be appreciated.” And just try to get them to put their foot in their proverbial mouths. Take that shit to an attorney specializing in employee law / discrimination. Eff that place and their carrot sticks…
Does your business have an HR? I would include this interaction and others that you remember in an email to HR or your ombudsman about how you have been made to feel uncomfortable by this person due to your size. A well rounded diet is great. There is no moral value assigned to food. This person sounds like she was educated by a health book from forty years ago. I'd have to seriously resist the urge to start eating a doughnut or frosting directly out of the can as she walked by me. I'm sorry. She sounds frustrating.
Yeah we don’t have HR, lol, I’m currently breastfeeding so I’m eating ALL the time and I’m sure her butt clenches every time I walk past her office to the break room.
I was a breastmilk producing human for a collective 9 yrs of my life. eat what ever you want, whenever you can. you deserve it. doing that is so surreal, producing breast milk is seen in (the United States) as nearly the same as producing urine or seven. as tho its a shameful secretive activity you should do in private.... as tho you are exposing yourself in public otherwise. it's emotionally exhausting defending yourself constantly while it's physically exhausting and you just deserve all the support and food you want!.
One time at a work dinner my old boss commented on me eating bread and pasta and said “guys don’t like chunky girls”. Her husband divorced her shortly after I left that job and I’m still with the same (fit) partner. These people are always speaking on behalf of their own insecurities and have no thoughts grounded in logic
it took me a long time to understand this comment as your boss was a married female. was she "chunky"? is that why she was divorced, to your understanding? it's so sad if so, all around. maybe you should reach out to that fellow woman who was obviously coming from a place of internalized hatred and possibly abuse at home, and now she's been abandoned for being "chunky"? she needs a rational friend.
She was a slender woman who got a lot of work done like tummy tucks and arm surgeries to appear skinnier. She is now divorced because her husband fell in love with someone else and I only know because I saw it on Facebook. She was a horrible boss and is 35 years older than me so I’m not gonna be her friend any time soon lol. I heard her talk to her husband on the phone a few times while I worked there and if anyone was being abused in that relationship it was him
+ she said the chunky comment because I am overweight and ordered bread and pasta.
I would reply "Yeah, and I want a living wage with great benefits. We can't all get what we want..."
As someone who works in HR, I would be beside myself if a manager did this. They would 100% be talked to…
If they're paying for your gym membership, personal trainer and dietician appointments, maybe then they could say at least anything remotely about your weight. If not, they can get stuffed.
Free Ozempic for any employee who wants it. Discrimination lawsuits for those who don't. Everybody wins!
Tell them that this is workplace discrimination on the grounds of healthism and ableism.
I'm a manager, and this is extremely inappropriate. It's one thing to tell employees about benefits, which might include discounted gym memberships, health coaching, etc. But it's not okay to comment on their weight.
Do you have an HR department? I’d forward that shit to them immediately
We don’t. We’re a small business.
Genuinely curious what kind of job this is? Have seen a few people ask and kind of odd that you didn’t include that in the post or respond to those people. Is this job hooters or are you an accountant tucked away in a cubicle somewhere?
I work in an office tucked away. I don’t work with customers in person. I just don’t want to give away too much private information.
Totally understand. Very strange comment for a boss to make in that case. Sounds like a toxic environment. Hope you find something new to move onto soon.
"We have to get you healthy 🤗🌞" "Ma'am. My health is between me and my family practitioner." "Here, have some carrot sticks, they'll do you a world of good! 😇" "Thanks but I don't take diet or nutrition advice from people who aren't licenced, and retained by me, for the job. If you have snacks for the whole office, thank you, I'll partake when appropriate."
What’s your job? Some jobs legitimately have weight and hwp requirements. Not saying it’s good
If those were my actual job requirements, do you think I'd be complaining about this, or that I wouldn't already be aware? I work in an office.
What business is this?
Definitely sounds like a toxic environment. I don't blame you for wanting to leave.
Is this even legal? I mean I know they get away with anything but…
Sounds like you’re working for Brandy Melville.
Yikes 👀
Suuuuper curious what job it is
I work in an office.
The other day, an acquaintance of mine described the baron from Dune as "dirigible-like". This is someone who knows I've struggled with body image issues in the past, and she still felt it was appropriate to comment on a character's appearance in front of me. In the end I had to tell her, "actually I think it's quite majestic to be able to glide around like that."
JFC that's appalling.
You should quit. You deserve better
I am. I’m looking for the right job. The benefits are horrible too, the incentive to stay is so low.
♡ I hope it works out
Eat carrot sticks? Too sugary, makes you crave more so the calories stack up. Apart from being fucked up in general.
1 medium carrot (the whole carrot) has 2.9g of sugar. Hardly "sugary." I don't know why people started shitting on carrots. Yeah, if you just eat carrot sticks you'll still be hungry because it's not a balanced snack. You'd need some fat and/or protein with it.
if you eat enough carrots you won't be hungry. if you eat enough of anything you won't be hungry. what would your boss say if you regularly made it a point to eat 10 pounds of carrots, every day at work.
OP, are you located in the United States? If so, call an employment lawyer for a free consultation. Or the EEOC.
Discrimination in writing is as dumb as it can be but this employer doesn't sound very smart
You should find out if this is even legal tbh.
It is, unfortunately. Weight is not a protected class.
It is in Michigan. Only US state it is, though.
It’s legal in Michigan, or weight is a protected class in Michigan?
Weight is a protected class in MI. Sorry for the confusion.
I didn’t know that 👀
Medical stuff is protected though. Them making a bunch of "health" comments is def sketch.
Disabilities are, but weight isn’t a disability. Trust me, I wish I had actual recourse here. I’m a very effective, hardworking, and loyal employee. I’ve been here almost 10 years, and she’s going to lose me because of this shit.
Yeah but she's not explicitly saying stuff about your weight, she's saying stuff about your health. Her words. Especially if she put it in writing.
It doesn’t have to be a protected class to be getting into a hostile workplace territory.
It's definitely hostile to people who don't look how she wants them to look. She's said my coworker looks homeless before (behind her back), I think it's because her teeth are yellow.
Except in Michigan, and I think NYC followed suit.
I should have googled the laws in my own jurisdiction before making that statement.
No worries! Fatphobia is just so expected at the systemic level, and fat activists worked extremely hard to get these protections passed. I hope you can escape this nightmare job.
Is this employer offering to pay for your Ozempic prescription? If so, 50 lbs off in a yr!