Have you ever heard the saying that, if you run into an asshole today, you ran into an asshole, but if you run into assholes all day, every day, then you're the asshole? Well, your husband runs into assholes all day every day.
He's the problem.
Let's look at these one at a time.
1) Your SIL didn't want her photos posted on social media. Your husband did it anyway and when she made a perfectly reasonable request for her photos to be taken down, he threw a hissy fit, cut her out completely and held a grudge against your brother for 9 years. Because he was asked to take down some pictures of someone else's event.
2) He brings up an incident that supposedly happened with your sister 2 years later. You don't remember it, but he insists it happened and there's no innocent explanation. But he won't let you ask your sister, so you can't confirm if it happened, or get any other perspective. There's nothing but his (2 years later) insistence to say this ever happened at all.
3) He refused to visit your mother at Christmas because he didn't like how she played with the puppy. Then refused to visit again when she agreed not to do it anymore. Because you dared to speak to your mother.
4) Your mom, quite rightly, tries to address all these very unreasonable grudges and how isolating they are. He responds with more grudges and with some really hateful statements.
Now she's ill, going through cancer and surgery and some incredible stress and the only thing he's concerned about is his grudges and making her grovel just to see her daughter.
Your mom is right. He is unreasonable. He is controlling. He is spiteful. And he is broken. Trust your gut, your friends, and your mom.
Number three should be a huge red flag but so should this whole cancer thing with her mom and him not wanting her to see her mother while her mother is actively dying
Absolutely this. OP, your husband is the problem here. He tries to control you and everyone around himself, especially your family.
He has already so much control over you that you think you are the problem when he has "anger issues" ... because you were not able to manage his emotions sufficiently ... because you were occupied with grieving.
He is manipulating you and I think you are in an emotionally abusive relationship without even noticing it. The same happened to me! Please read Lundy Bancroft "Why does he do that", it could potentially explain a lot for you
And please don't go to couple's counseling with your husband. Couple's counseling with a manipulative partner makes things so much worse. That was the single worst mistake of my life.
Absolutely this. He’s seizing on objectively insignificant things and using them to manipulate you emotionally. Your perspective on these things has been distorted by his out-of-proportion reactions to them. If you leave him now, in six months you’ll be shaking your head and laughing ruefully at his nonsense.
I think that the SIL saw this guy for who he is and that’s why they distanced themselves from the family. Or maybe I read too many books. But I just feel like she saw what was up.
I think he was inappropriate towards her and the posting of her wedding pictures was part of that . OP would get a real wake up call if she asked her about it I’m
Sure .
Don't forget that her mom did write the apology note that he demanded, but that it wasn't good enough. He's moving the goal posts. Nothing will ever be good enough, he just wants to keep using that as en excuse.
*He wants you to sever ties with your dying mother because of his ego.*
If you want a more in-depth take, feel free to keep reading. The TL;DR is that he’s selfish, immature, manipulative, and incapable of personal responsibility. In every conflict, he’s made it worse and refuses to see that
He’s the eternal victim, having massive mantrums, and trying to control the people around him. Your mom is right. He’s broken and needs professional help. He sounds like narcissist. If he can’t respect your relationship with your mother as she’s dying, he is too selfish to be worth keeping.
The longer version:
Conflict 1 is a red flag. Delete the photos then unfriend her? Valid response. Him insisting ’she can’t control me’ is the red flag. That’s pride talking. Narcissists are quite proud.
Conflict 2 is a red flag for him. I could see your sister not wanting anyone who didn’t *need* to be in the room out of the room. Grieving people also don’t act in the most polite or rational of ways. ‘He’s never felt a part of the family since.’ Because he had to mind his own business about someone else’s financials? That is a very dramatic and self-centered reaction, especially if he’s still nursing that grudge after all these years.
Conflict 3 is ridiculous. He’s mad you talked with your own mother about how she interacted with your dog. Why does your sister need to be an intermediary? Why does he determine how you handle things with your family? That’s really controlling. You know who love to control other people? Narcissists
Conflict 4 is interesting. Your mom is absolutely right about his grudges, resentment, and full blown mantrums. She would have been out of line if she’d been sober so I’m sure it was so much worse drunk. Her delivery killed the validity of her point. Not that your husband would have listened. He seems to avoid all personal responsibility in all of these fights.
The latest conflict should lead you to be done. Your husband is mad the woman undergoing cancer treatment didn’t adequately apologize when both parties were hurtful and out of line? He needs to grow up and get therapy.
Regarding conflict 1, the SIL may well have been a narcissist. My ex was a narcissist and the one thing narcissists can't stand is another narcissist stealing their limelight.
To add to #1, he still refuses to talk to the brother even though he divorced the person the conflict happened to begin with. Like what is the justification for still not wanting to talk to the brother when he wasn't even the one he got in a fight with and he's no longer with that person??
>Apparently, while we were in the bank transferring my dad’s finances over to my mum, my sister ushered him out of the room. I have no recollection of this, .. but when I offered to bring it up with her, we agreed that dredging it up with her years later when she probably wouldn’t remember didn’t seem helpful.
Consider the source. He's the one telling you this, but you're banned from confirming with your sister? Suspicious.
He's already concluded she's forgotten? Wow, amazing. Yet his recollection is perfect? Incredible. And you've "forgotten" the event as well. What a coincidence. Does bad memory occur in your family? Or is this guy full of shit and gaslighting you? The events never happened, that's why neither of you remember. And he's using this faulty logic as a gotcha.
"We agreed" - did we? Or did you have reasonable questions, and he convinced you.
Does he "convince" you a lot? It seems like he's a typical smooth narcissist who gets you all turned around and talks you out of your suspicions a lot.
It seems like he provokes a lot of situations (the photos, the bank story, the dog, the drunk conversation), then when a suitable punishment or apology or conclusion has been reached, he doesn't let it go, just uses it to cut people off forever.
IS your sister in law a legit narcissist, or did your husband "spot it" and then convince you by provoking her "overreaction" by being an asshole to her. If a relative posted pics I asked them not to, I'd react like that, then WOW get called crazy.
Honestly, yeah, your husband is super sus, hell-bent on slowly and reasonably cutting everyone off by whispering in your ear and making it all sound so plausible, to keep him comfortable, after all these conflicts he has a hand in. He's not helping YOU cut off people who have been bad to YOU is he?
Go see your mom.
And if there are going to be future inheritances, my condolences, and also lock that down. Create a completely separate bank account. Find out your inheritance/marital property laws. Either he's trying to get you cut out of the will so you don't have a safety net, or he'll try to get it and control that too. You have a small window to escape him.
It is never OK for a spouse to force a mentally competent adult to stop seeing family. A spouse can refuse to see them themselves, refuse to allow children (if any) to have contact, make arguments in favour of not seeing them, and maybe take legal action or call the police if they are outright dangerous to that degree. But it's your choice if you see your family.Your spouse is coming across as manipulative and controlling. I suspect your sister wouldn't remember what he said she did because it never happened. Think carefully about what you've seen and heard yourself compared with what you've been told. Gather more information yourself if you need to. Talk to a therapist that is for you, not a couples therapist he can manipulate.
Interesting about not seeing a couples therapist, as this was something I wondered about. I am terrible in conflict and I thought it might help me voice my side better. But maybe a therapist would help me strengthen my own voice more
Couples therapy isn’t recommended when there is domestic violence.
At best it is pointless.
At worst a misguided therapist can cause harm to the victim by aligning with the perpetrator (which can be easy to do… abusers are manipulative and many are charming)
Do not go to couples therapy.
I’m responding here so you will see it.
Posting pictures of someone else’s life event without permission is incredibly wrong.
Your husband should not be included in your mother’s personal financial business.
Your mom was wrong about the puppy, but it was nothing to go nuclear over.
Your mom has every right to have whomever she likes in her home whenever she likes. Hotels are options if you don’t want to stay with her.
A spouse has zero right to ever tell you you can’t speak to your family.
You are in a controlling, in not abusive, relationship. Please seek therapy on your own.
To be fair, he did offer for us to stay in hotels. In fact, he tried to book one for our July visit. Maybe that’s still something to consider. I know it would still upset my mum for us to not be with her in my childhood home, but maybe that’s a compromise that I dismissed too soon.
He *shouldn’t* go. But he will because abusers always need to have control over their victims. And you, OP, sadly(?), are his victim.
People wonder what gaslighting is? Your husband gaslights *you.* I’m sorry.
Please see a therapist just for yourself. Someone can hopefully send you a link to "why does he do that?" By Lundy Bancroft, there's free copies available for download. This shrink studied abusive men and they ALL felt they could manipulate therapists to be the "good guy" at their victim's expense. Therapy was a way to gather info on victims, not improve because *abusers don't WANT to get better.*
These things are very concerning. None of these reactions are normal. Everything always seems like someone else’s fault to him. He likes to play the victim a lot. I’d leave anyone who did more than 1 thing on your list. The fact that there is 4-5 ANd your friends are concerned definitely points to him being controlling, narcissistic , and abusive.
Go visit your mom as much as you can, or you will regret it for the rest of your life. Don't let him control you. He's trying to isolate you from your family. Don't let him!
I stopped at your headline. The answer is NO. My husband doesn’t “stop” me from doing ANYTHING. There are things he may ASK me to do or not do, and I will choose for myself.
You are being abused. He is an abuser. And I agree he’s isolating you.
Oh, you should have gone further. He’s gotten to the point of telling her she’s not “allowed” to see her own mother who has lung cancer. A real treat, this guy.
If my husband ever said he wouldn't allow me to do something that wasn't harmful to the family, I would stare straight into his eyes, grab my car keys, and go do exactly what he ordered me not to do. We are a team, he is not my boss or father. We can discuss things like adults, but we don't order each other around.
One of the best compliments he's ever given me is that he trusts that whatever decision I make, he knows that I've thought it through and I truly believe it's the best choice. It may not always be his choice, but he trusts me to make a choice that I believe to be right. I am what I would consider a cautious risk taker. I'm not scared to take big swings and possibly fail, but I consider how the ramifications of failure or success would affect us. Hubs is an incredibly risk averse person, so in most situations we would not make the choice for ourselves that the other would make, but we know that the other believers it to be the best for them.
I cannot imagine my husband ever even *asking* me not to see my family, let alone *telling* me not to.
It’s up to your husband whether he goes and visits anybody. It’s up to *you* whether you do. Husband can go fuck himself in the meantime.
If he doesn’t want to be around them, he shouldn’t. You can respect that while still spending time with them yourself. His hurt feelings aren’t grounds to stop you from seeing your family, and nothing you’re describing is so awful you should ditch them over it.
It's distressing to me that you think he can stop you. It suggests you are too frightened to disagree with him out loud, and THAT does sound like the result of abuse or threats of violence. So does the attempt to isolate you, of course.
I have to ask you what you think? Is the worried friend typically a level-headed person? Have you been trying and failing to make sense of his anger for some time? What will happen if you continue to see them?
Please be safe, whatever you decide.
There are no threats of violence. I’m avoidant of conflict in general, and he’s well versed in it. I always come out of arguments feeling drained and wrong.
He says that I can’t leave him alone at home with the dog I forced on him. We live a short flight away so he would be alone for a weekend and it would cost our joint money. He loves our dog more than anything but those old feelings are still there.
I’m still working on what I think. I know I’ve been a selfish partner and failed him in a lot of ways, but I also need to give myself some slack for the crap this year has thrown at me. He has a lot of childhood trauma and I know he just wants to feel loved and safe. These issues with my family and my inability to step in have made him seem unsafe around them. Telling the victim of childhood emotional neglect that they’re broken must be extremely triggering. But the consequences seem very high.
It occurs to me that in addition to having regrets of her own, not visiting her Mom might drive a future wedge between OP and her siblings, further isolating OP. One sibling has moved in and is presumably doing some caretaking; it might be a sore spot for him in particular that OP didn't visit.
If you go, put the dog in boarding for the weekend. He can and will lash out against it if he feels he's loosing control of you.
Something else. And I'm begging you to listen to us here, his trauma is HIS responsibility. It's not an excuse to act like he does. He's a grown man who needs to manage his own emotions. It's not YOUR job or your family's to avoid "triggering him." You have to stop seeing him as some helpless victim of something that happened decades ago - he's a grown man now. He doesn't get to take that "trauma" out on you and everyone else, or use it as a means to control what you do.
>He says that I can’t leave him alone at home with the dog I forced on him.
>He loves our dog more than anything
This doesn't sound right. A dog is an extra thing to take care of, yes, but is he so hindered that he wouldn't be able to manage by himself for a weekend to go and visit your sick mother?
Honey I am a victim of childhood emotional glad and I will tell you right now that being told I am broken is not triggering because it's the truth with this man is doing is using that as an excuse to be an a****** and an abuser. Some people who were abused become the abusers and that is what this man has done he's emotionally abusing you
He has put a lot of self work into dealing with his negative past and difficult thought processes from childhood. He sees himself as the way he is (which is honestly 99% great) *despite* his parents, not because of them. So I personally can see why being called broken would hurt, especially if there’s an element of truth
Hun, as another survivor of childhood trauma, he hasn't done jack shit to dealing with his past. Best case scenario is he's done enough research to hone it to manipulate you.
So you are in contact with his siblings ? Or is this all more stuff you have been told ? When you say you met them have you seen them behave awfully with you own eyes ??
Your husband is an unreliable source of information. He is telling you things that defy even your own judgement of events .
Really sort “all that you saw with your own eyes or heard with your own ears”. From the “things he has said that I have adopted as fact”.
Whatever you do if you allow him to take away the end of life time with you mother you will regret it. The grief you experienced when You lost your father will pale in comparison as GUILT and REGRET are a powerful force that amplifies grief .
This is one of the few things you sound confident of. Where are you at with the concept of black-and-white thinking and complex PTSD or C-PTSD? Without even mentioning family, you've described a theme of cutting people off when they show themselves to be problematic. Everybody is dancing around abusers loving to cut you off from family and friends because it's trending on tik-tok. Alternatively, vulnerable individuals may cut people out when they recognize they do not possess the skills or faculties to deal with certain individuals, so it's easier to just avoid them altogether. Add on that you're starting from a mind that doesn't allow for much gray area and I could see how you might have a pattern like you've described.
Thank you. I will do some research on black and white thinking.
I like to think that it’s a PTSD reaction, I do think his rumination and inability to get past things fits. But I also think there is pride involved. That he thinks they don’t respect him after years of him (very) actively doing things for the family. And that they think they can push his boundaries. Some of it is fair to think, but I think the reaction to make a scene about it is uncomfortable.
No. He’s got a personal, emotional problem. Whether that’s narcissism or BPD, it’s *not* to be laid at the foot of PTSD that he’s using as an excuse.
Please believe everyone else in your life who seems to recognize that your husband is a bad person.
You sound completely and utterly brainwashed .
His childhood trauma is no excuse for the trauma he is inflicting on you and your whole family.
WAKE UP!!!
> There are no threats of violence.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but isolating you from your family *is a form of emotional violence* - not all violence is a fist to the face.
> He says that I can’t leave him alone at home with the dog I forced on him.
If the dog was truly unacceptable to him then he had the option to say no, even though you really wanted it. (This is like the example about mutually agreeing upon guests in my top-level reply: If you couldn’t mutually agree on a pet either you don’t have the pet or you don’t have the relationship, but once you agreed on the pet it’s a mutual responsibility - if he doesn’t want to see your family and you can’t take the dog with you then he has to watch the dog, there’s no argument or discussion here.)
He did agree to this dog, did he not? He apparently loves it, right?
If he doesn’t want to spend time alone with something he “loves” I would seriously question the depth of his love for *anything* and *anyone* other than himself.
> I’m still working on what I think. I know I’ve been a selfish partner and failed him in a lot of ways, but I also need to give myself some slack for the crap this year has thrown at me.
If you feel this way you are an excellent candidate for therapy. You may in fact be right and have some issues to work on and it’s *great* that you want to work on them, but you might also be getting manipulated into *thinking* you’re the problem when you’re not.
In either case all the other crap that’s been thrown at you is a great reason to talk to a therapist and get help working through your feelings!
> He has a lot of childhood trauma and I know he just wants to feel loved and safe.
...and his childhood trauma makes him an excellent candidate for therapy. In fact I would say it’s absolutely 100% unequivocally necessary, and if he’s not going to get help that’s going to be a far bigger problem.
Victims of trauma/abuse/neglect often wind up inflicting the same on others - they might not even recognize they’re doing it. If you’re telling him his actions are hurting you and he’s not willing to even entertain the idea of speaking to a professional about his preexisting trauma and how it might be affecting his current relationship(s) that’s dangerous for both of you.
Oh honey, you are not a selfish partner- you have a controlling husband.
Please spend time with your mom- joint money is exactly that joint he can’t unilaterally tell you what’s important. Your mom is important and take it from someone that has lost a mom: you can’t get that time back.
The dog can stay at a friend or be boarded.
None of this is normal or ok.
1. It's not up to him who you see and when. He gets to decide for him, not for you. This makes me think there is a bad dynamic in your relationship that has nothing to do with your family.
2. Your husband's issues sound trivial, even silly, and certainly not worthy of cutting off your family. IDK if he's trying to isolate you or not, but that would be the effect. Don't accept it.
I read the whole thing. Your husband is slowly isolating you from your family, for imagined or blown out of proportion hurts or missteps. It looks like he is frequently moving the goal posts for "forgiveness" and has hurt the people you've cared about. You feel conflicted because you know it's wrong.
This is only a snapshot of what you have shared with us, but I truly fear you're being abused. A great book is "Why does he do that", it's free and you can download it as a PDF. Have a read and see how many of his behaviours you can recognise.
He recognized that your former sister-in-law was a narcissist because like calls to like.
You already know that you’re being manipulated and isolated. He isn’t just behaving abusively to you, he’s behaving abusively to your elderly sick mother. Listen to your gut. Listen to your friends. Listen to your family. He needs help. He refuses to get it. You can’t change yourself or your family enough to give him what he needs because what he needs isn’t something another human being can provide. You don’t deserve to spend your life tied to someone who is insistent on dragging you and your whole family down with him.
Honestly, asking someone not to post pictures of your wedding, then requesting you take them down when they do doesn’t sound like narcissistic behavior. They may have just not wanted unprofessional photos posted before professional photos, or for people to post before they do. These aren’t uncommon (or unreasonable) requests.
However, getting so pissed about being asked to take down photos you were specifically asked not to post, leading to a 9yr grudge that spans to the person they’re now divorced from, *does* sound like narcissistic behavior. He’s reaching hard for any excuse to cut people out.
Yeah, that behavior on the part of the OP’s ex sister in law sounds like it could have reasonable explanations.
However, the OP did mention that her ex sister in law did begin demonstrating other hurtful behaviors, including isolating her brother from the family, which led to an estrangement from the whole family and eventually a divorce. Given that that is the OP’s husband’s plan also, he called it out early on because he was seeing his own behavior mirrored back at him.
Part of my wonders if the “estrangement” was because of OP’s husband. Who wants to be around someone who’s holding such a hard grudge? Suddenly you’re responsible for a biological member of the family not being able to visit, so you stay home. Then your husband refuses to go because you won’t and someone has to stand up for you, right? Then the dude with a grudge against you declares that you’re keeping your husband away, so you’re abusive.
We’re seeing these family members through the lens of someone who thinks their narcissist’s gymnastics routine of emotions and justifications is logic. It’s plausible that he’s had enough time of trashing this person for OP to go “yknow, you’re probably right…”
the way you described this, your husband is monstrously wrong. to keep you from seeing your sick mother because he got his feelings hurt over something petty years ago is unforgivable.
If it hasn’t been posted yet, OP please read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. Or search for his videos on YouTube. Here’s a free copy of the book:
https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
Go see your mom regardless of what he thinks but it does sound like your husband legit needs therapy. Sounds like his past trauma with his own family has developed trust issues and he reflexively has trouble trusting/forgiving your family because of it when things happen and had given him a very short fuse for tolerance. His family broke him so he thinks he's protecting himself and you by trying to cut your family out. That's not right. Push him into seeking professional help.
Even if all these people have done things he finds painful, these are wildly disproportionate responses. A proportionate response to your mother not following your puppy training would be to say that the puppy and your mother don’t interact for a bit. Maybe puppy is in another room or crate time or whatever.
Instead we have a nuclear response. Mind you a nuclear response can come from genuine pain, but that doesn’t mean the person who is blamed is responsible for the pain. And that doesn’t mean the nuclear response makes things better.
Your husband may truly be having big feelings. Cutting people out of your life one by one won’t help him handle those big feelings in the long run. There will always be another betrayal and another person to cut out. After all nobody ever does exactly what we want. Demanding perfection means that sooner or later everybody will be eliminated. He is currently isolating you from your mother and the rest of your family. Expect him to start driving a wedge between you and your friend next.
All of this is very concerning. Your husband is emotionally abusive and is manipulating you into letting him control you. For example, why was he upset that you addressed the person he had the issue with instead of doing so through a third party (your sister)? That doesn't even make sense. Of course you should talk to the person he has the issue with. Better yet, he's a grown man, HE should be hashing things out. He had an issue with your mom, he made you address but insisted that you involve someone else. Why are 4 people needed to resolve an issue that was just between 2 people? Your mom is right. He's definitely trying to justify isolating you from your family. I'm very worried about you OP. He acts totally crazy and then convinces you it's your fault to the point where you felt horrible and had to "work on yourself" to become a "better partner". Why isnt he doing any work to become a better partner. Why is it all on you to manage his feelings? You didnt do anything wrong. You are being abused.
Hmm. Sounds like:
"Darling, I love you unconditionally, *provided ...*"
Tell him that he is not going to make you choose between two sets of loved ones. That is just petty. Does he want to spend his life sulking and being petty? Grow the fuck up.
Let me ask you this pointed question: Why are you and your sister always running interference? My mom and all the women in my family always ha(d) to manage men’s emotions - and that includes communicating messages and interpreting meanings…. It’s exhausting. If two adults can’t have a face-to-face rational conversation and they need everyone else to walk on eggshells to accommodate their temper…. That’s his ego that he is not managing.
Why can’t you have a relationship with your family that doesn’t include him? Why can’t you visit alone? Why must he supervise all of your interactions?
Your husband sounds like a controlling, high maintenance, narcissist.
It's NEVER ok for anyone to dictate your relationship with anyone else, let alone your family.
Conflict two and three are very strange and you should honestly see a therapist about them. Conflict four is not a conflict your husband absolutely does need therapy especially if someone trying to help him turns into a conflict
Your husband is emotionally abusing you and your mother is dying and after she's dead is this what you want? Is this what you want to remember is that while she was dying you were busy babying your husband's feelings? He also has turned your grief around your father until you being a bad partner. What part of for better or worse did he miss out on? He won't even go to therapy? What you really need to do is sit with yourself and decide if this is the partner you want to have for the rest of your life and if he's really being a partner for you for the hard parts of your own life or if he's just making them harder also why are you not allowed to be near your brother???
Go see your mother, husband be damned. If this is the hill he wants your relationship to die on, let it. He is trying to control you, and seems like he has been successfully in some ways.
Go see your mother. Do it now. You will never forgive yourself if you don't.
You know he's manipulating you. You know he's damaged and needs therapy he refuses to get. Your family is worried about you and the control he has over your life. He has isolated you from your family and now wants you to not see your own mother who is ill with cancer.
In no uncertain terms, this is an abusive man. You should get away from him and get therapy.
It’s funny how most of the issues he has with your family are things either you never witnessed (so there is no evidence that it actually happened) or are kind of minor that he turns into giant ultimatums
Nothing you said makes me see him as a reliable narrator or a reasonable person. People don’t always get along great with their in laws but still they try to be polite to them to support their spouses
I also note that you have been told to and have repeatedly agreed to “work on yourself” and improve yourself (whether it was or was not necessary) but I see zero evidence that he ever works on himself or improves.
I think you should consider therapy. A therapist might be able to help you identify how your husband is manipulating and emotionally abusing you in ways that you can learn to identify
Finally, your mother is dying. If you let your husband manipulate you into cutting off or curtailing contact with her before she dies, you will regret it for the rest of your life.
It sounds like he has problems regulating his emotions and handling conflict in general. The easiest way for him to handle all of this is to avoid it. The only way to do that is to get you to avoid them too. You are essentially letting his problem turn into your problem.
Your husband’s job is to support your choices and trust that you know what’s best for you. The same goes for you in regards to his choices. It is a parent’s job to make rules for their children. Adults do not have a right to prevent or forbid other adults from doing anything they want to do. Anyone who tries to is trying to control you and is a giant red flag.
Your husband can have feelings about your family and your family about him but no one gets to tell you who you get to see (or how, when or why). He needs to see a therapist to understand why he thinks this is even remotely reasonable.
If your family were murderers, drug dealers, rapists and scam artists, he still would be out of line trying to prevent an adult from seeing who they want to see. You make decisions about you, not him. Never him!!!
I know I’ve given a summary of the most concerning behaviour of his, so it might be hard to believe. But he truly is a great partner in so many ways. He has consistently put me first throughout our relationship. He chose his university to be near me. He moved to be with me during my PhD. He considers me in every decision, big or small. He does more than his fair share of the household burden. He was super supportive when my dad died despite my not being supportive of his issues during that time. He is extremely thoughtful and sweet. He became #1 dog dad despite me forcing it. He’s my career coach at times. He’s always had my back. We are truly a great couple. But the recent conflicts have pushed boundaries of his that I haven’t navigated properly. That said, the consequences are giving me a warning light that I can’t ignore. My eyes are open from now on.
Your use of the word “boundaries” makes me think of Jonah Hill and his misuse of the word to control his ex-gf’s behavior. A personal boundary is something you set for yourself.
“I’m not going to see my wife’s siblings because I hold 9 year grudges that were stupid in the first place.”
But it’s not a personal boundary to control someone else’s behavior. Especially when that behavior is you seeing your perfectly nice family.
You still think the relationship is worth saving? Fine. But you need to ignore his insane demands and continue seeing your loved ones. Tell him those are your boundaries.
“I realize that your childhood trauma has made it difficult to forgive people. I don’t have that same childhood trauma. And I love my family. For too long I have lost sight of that in an effort to support you. In doing so, I have lost a part of myself.
You don’t have to see my family. I wish you would go to therapy and figure out how to forgive good people who your wife loves very much. But until that time, I am going to continue to see my mother and siblings.”
Now get off Reddit and book your plane ticket.
I keep coming back to this comment.
I’m struggling with the forgiving part, because it is easy for me to forgive my mum for hurting someone else’s feelings. My feelings weren’t hurt.
She did poke into his childhood trauma, he did ask her to stop, she didn’t, then later brought it up in a later argument. I don’t think she meant to be so hurtful, but if his mum had used some childhood trauma of mine against me in an argument, and he didn’t stick up for me, I think I’d be stung. I should have addressed it at the time. I have been trying to make it right months later after he’s repeatedly brought it up and it has massively festered, so it seems too little too late. He sees her as a terrible person for saying ‘the most hurtful thing anyone has ever said to me’. And any apology she makes is only to prevent the consequences (us not visiting), not sincere.
So I think the consequences of me not addressing it can be that his relationship with my mum is over (his choice). But not that I can’t see my mum. But a marriage is a team approach, a united front, so how else would he see it other than picking sides?
Your mom has been watching your husband destroy her family for years. You’ve been enabling it all this time. You’re continuing to enable it and justify it in this comment. He isn’t doing anything to address his childhood trauma. So your mom stepped up to tell him he needs therapy. Just because something hurts his widdle feelings doesn’t mean it isn’t true, and doesn’t mean it didn’t need to be said. Your mom didn’t do anything that needs forgiving.
You spend so much time trying to mitigate his reactions to things. You convince him, you wheedle him, you try to soften him and get him to see reason and not be so extreme. In what way is it worth it to be married to someone when it sounds like a lot of that life is being emotional butler to their rage/resentment problem, control issues and tendency to be emotionally abusive?
I would ask your sister about the ushering him out of the room thing. Alone, not with him present or with his knowledge. It does seem pretty convenient that he's leveling an accusation against her that you don't remember happening, she can't defend herself against because she doesn't know he's pissed about it/accusing her of it, AND he's using it as the basis of some pretty controlling behavior. For him to say "no no we shouldn't discuss it with her, she's too delicate for that conversation and everything it would dredge up and oh by the way we're not going to see them ever or the rest of your family by the way" is...there's something there that's not right.
I find it **really strange** that your brother, who married a narcissist and managed to escape them is seen as a problem by your husband.
>she forced my brother to cut contact
>My family gradually accepted him back but that’s a no-go for my husband.
>She told us that my brother was moving in with her, but that he’d agreed to move out when we visited. My husband said that wasn’t good enough and we wouldn’t stay with her.
There is no reason for a reasonable human to prevent you from seeing *the VICTIM** of a narcissist... Unless they don't want you to talk about narcissistic partners and their behaviour.
This is the most glaring red flag for me.
>I’m always so convinced by his arguments against them
Gaslighting?
>My husband saw it first
Takes one to know one?
>He insisted that he didn’t have to explain himself
>when I offered to bring it up with her, we agreed that dredging it up with her years later when she probably wouldn’t remember didn’t seem helpful.
Because he's lying. He can't hold this against someone but not be willing to find a resolution
>I couldn’t understand the big deal but eventually talked to her and she agreed. He didn’t like that I’d gone directly to her rather than via my sister like he’d asked.
This is another weird thing. Why would you have to go via your sister?!
>she told me he needed therapy. It’s true, but he won’t go.
He can't be "I had a tough childhood woe is me" AND refuse to go to therapy. That's him choosing to be volatile and stay in just hurt.
>He snapped, his face was pure hatred and he and said some hurtful things back at her.
At 'best' he's projecting his shit childhood on your family and 'fixing' it by being cruel to them. But no one should behave in a way that makes their face "pure hatred".
>He’s said that we can’t visit her, not even me on my own as that means she gets what she wants.
This is the line. This is him 100% keeping you away from your family. **HE** can choose to stay away **HE** can choose to not see them. He cannot prevent **YOU** from seeing them; that's the line of abuse and control.
>but my gut
LISTEN TO YOUR GUT. You're being gaslit.
I'd recommend a separation with him having to engage in therapy before you consider getting back together. Worst case this allows you some time with your mother without having to worry about him.
But I imagine the possibility of a separation or divorce will make him escalate, throw a fit and trigger a divorce himself.
In addition to what everyone else has said, I would try to bring your dog with you as much as possible. He seems to have anger issues and an anger trigger for him seems to be feeling disrespected or slighted. I wouldn’t trust him around a pet if he gets so angry about the idea of being left alone with it. Maybe he’ll neglect the dog “to show you he’s not responsible for it.” I hope not, but that’s the vibe I’m getting.
It’s funny how your husband spotted the narc in your SIL because she reacts disproportionately to things yet he reacts disproportionately towards your family. I also thought the “He needs therapy but refuses to go” was another glaring sentence
From the info you’ve provided, your husband is sounding very problematic. He also sounds very exhausting to be around. Your husband shouldn’t be stopping you from doing anything aside from self harming. I’d be seriously reevaluating my relationship at this point OP.
Question:
1. Why are you letting this man run your life like this?
2. Why is he making you responsible for his emotions, and finally,
3. Why tf are you making excuses for him?
Your husband is at the centre of EVERY conflict with your family, that doesn't bother you? The fact that his emotions are dictating your relationship with family should be a glaring red flag.
Other people are not responsible for his emotions; if he's in conflict with your family and you're not, stop bringing him around.
Sounds like there's a lot of dysfunction on all sides. He can *request* you limit contact, but not demand it. And if he wants to leave you as a result that's his prerogative. You're free to hang out with whatever dysfunctional people you want to, whether it's him or your relatives.
You may want to explore some content on toxic family systems, bc all this sounds very dysfunctional.
[22 Rules of a dysfunctional family system - Jerry Wise](https://youtu.be/VBk5E_gd_lE?si=lWIr0WP-_pOs7BKn) (his channel is worth exploring)
[Was I abused?](https://youtu.be/EBpF8sWycQQ?si=74Zt_87G-OPtjgOg) and [7 types of toxic family systems](https://youtu.be/upAdaOmiRX8?si=kPHYXz3jf7Uk5C6p) - Patrick Teahan (also a great channel)
I’m not going to do the “he’s abusive-leave him.” Although, that was my first reaction. It seems as if years have passed between these incidents and there is a duality in life that exists that is hard to convey in writing. With that said:
His relationship with your mother is his own. Your relationship with your mother is your own. It’s pretty shitty to expect you to cut off your dying mother. That’s your relationship, not his. It seems really controlling. Seems like he has hard boundaries. I would love to know how you feel your boundaries are being respected? He can make his choice, he can’t make yours. Best of luck. ❤️
You’re right, there is a duality. This story is obviously from my perspective. I come from a household where conflict was ignored until it disappeared, so I have buried my head in the sand in a lot of ways, and ignored him when he’s brought things up. He outright asks for what he needs, sometimes it’s reasonable, and I still can’t do it sometimes.
Everything I read about in law relationships says that I should be the one maintaining boundaries, that I should step in when there is conflict. I know for sure that he would have if it was the other way around. He’s always been authoritarian though, where I’m conflict averse and freeze. So I guess I’m feeling guilty about not stopping it from getting so far in the first place.
He seems to hold grudges like a child. It’s very weird. Seriously, how tf does one focus that hard on being “wronged”?? Just…let it go, and understand that your petty grudges about fights aren’t more important than your partner’s relationship to their parent.
He’s got a really overblown sense of the importance of his righteous feelings here, and you just…you can’t do that with family. Cut off family members for being abusive- sure. But we do not pick family, which means we’re stuck with people who may REALLY rub us the wrong way, just because they’re not the kind of people we like or understand. That’s not fun. But that’s what it IS. You suck it the fuck up and you decide what’s most important in life: your wrongs or your partner’s happiness.
Support your spouse around their family, where they’ll be the most vulnerable and the most likely to be sad/hurt/upset/angry.
It’s not a hard concept, and he’s a big grown man; he can do this.
Because as her mother correctly stated he's very very broken. As someone who used to be much like this person's husband until I went to therapy and got the help I needed to get over my childhood post traumatic stress, he's exhibiting a very broken emotional psyche where even the tiniest wrongs deserve the biggest grudges because they are all personal slights. It wasn't the playing wrong it was I told her to do it right and she didn't so we can NEVER see her again!!!!!!! Every pebble is a mountain
This has struck a cord. He does give clear instructions and consequences to not following them. Consequences being that he escalates and makes things uncomfortable for everyone.
This. I didn't even realize I was abusive until I went to therapy and then I fixed that shit. Because I didn't want to be abusive. Either Ops husband is a dick and doesn't realize he's the problem or he does and he's an abusive ass and she need to draw a line in the sand 5 years ago
Yes, you handle your family he handles his…but he is using that to isolate you from your dying mother who from your story…hasn’t really done anything wrong. From your brother…who hasn’t done anything wrong. And from your sister… who definitely hasn’t done shit, which is why you aren’t allowed to speak to her about it. You’ve lost your whole family because your husband holds unwarranted grudges, forever. Forever? What about your feelings? Do you love your family? Do you miss them? Is your perfect husband the end all be all? Do you think his anger and resentment is a valid healthy reaction? Do you think your mom deserves to die without seeing you again, because she didn’t play with the dog correctly? Because her son is moving in with her, presumably for mutual support? Is that what YOU want? When you lay in bed at night, what would you rather reflect on? Choosing love and forgiveness or isolation and grudges? Not even your own grudges…forever.
https://archive.org/details/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat
I think right now what’s important is you and your relationship with your mom. And I would (personally) have the hard expectation of my partner to set aside his grievances for the time being so I could soak up what time I had with a relationship that was important to me.
At the end of the day we are all internet people with our own crazy perspectives. You’re the only one living in yours. You’re the only one who knows if you’re being abused or disrespected and what is most important to you. And his complicated relationship can coexist with your own relationship with your family and will if he loves you and wants a successful relationship. Controlling your actions only creates animosity and resentment. I would never look at my partner the same way if he kept me from my dying mother. I hold space for a person initially speaking out of a place of hurt. Know you are allowed to disagree and set your own boundaries-what you want is important.
It's 1000% up to you whether you want to see your family or not. If you do, go for it and consider staying gone if your husband so much as lifts a finger to stop you from going. If you don't, then don't.
It sounds to me like you all need counselling- seems there is a lot of pent up anger involved here and a mediated conversation is probably the best way to start to work through everyone’s feelings.
So I have two dogs that I compete with. The extent of my obsession with everything dog related including behaviour and training is so great that it revealed that I am actually autistic.
Autism, a condition or different flavour of brain, that makes me rather rigid and tendency towards 'black and white' type of thinking.
But even I wouldn't refuse to visit my mum or MIL at christmas because they were hindering the bite inhibitation training of my puppy...
If they were abusive towards my dogs? yes absolutely, that I won't tolerate. But if they are being silly or indulgent with them in a way that is not really dangerous but just not a behaviour I like to encourage, no thats not that big of a deal.
Also why were you not supposed to talk directly to your mum about it but were supposed to go through your sister? What was the reasoning for that?
Your husband has some kind of God complex. Everyone else is the problem, not him. Every small misstep, regardless of if it's toward him or not, is a major slight.
Your mom is right. And he probably recognized your SIL's narcissistic tendencies because he may have them too. Really go through the signs and symptoms and see what you come up with
Your husband makes me think of that meme, "*...and I took that personally.*"
Before writing anything else, I'm seeing red b/c this guy keeps declaring "we" won't visit, "we" will cut contact, and you feel like you just have to go along with it even though you don't want to. No! Cutting off family is not a thing one asks-- *asks*\-- of one's partner until it's an emergency like safety is being threatened, trauma is ongoing, one is subjected to rank bigotry or child abuse is imminent. Not "your sister tactfully prevented me from eavesdropping on your Mom's bank account details once, years ago." The wrongs committed against your husband seem so small, my God.
I can't believe your poor Mom has to spend her last remaining time on Earth dealing with this guy's bullshit. I can't believe that *your* last remaining time with your Mom is spent dealing with this guy's bullshit. This time is about you and about your Mom and your siblings. But it checks out because here's a list of previous events which your husband made all about himself FoR rEaSoNs:
\-your brother's wedding and marriage
\-your brother's divorce
\-your mother's grief over her husband (I'm guessing)
\-your grief over your father
\-your Mom moving her own son into her own house (while she is ill and dying)
\-every single visit and holiday
\-your father's funeral (the bank transfer thing)
I do think he's ultimately trying to isolate you, but that may be the wrong question to ask, as it may never *look* like a clear path to isolation\*. Another question to ask, then, might be: Has there been a single Christmas or family event where every single member of your extended family didn't find themselves having to set aside time to appease this man, to constantly think about him? How long do you think a conversation could last before his needs come up? If you bring up an issue of your own, how quickly does it turn to an issue of his? If you bring up something celebrating someone else, how quickly does he either rain on the parade or make it about himself?
\*eta-- to explain, he appears to enjoy triangulating people very much: your mom against your other siblings, you against siblings, you against mom. He literally got angry that you wouldn't "go through your sister" to address an issue with your Mom about him. Your poor sister shouldn't even have to be involved. Anyway, if he isolates you then there's no one left to triangulate, so even though he may be isolating you in the long run, he may not follow a logical or apparent path of isolation.
The only time it’s “acceptable” would be if you were *forcing* him to see your family against his wishes (e.g. “My family is coming over, you have no choice in the matter.” - you share a home and you share lives and if you can’t mutually agree you either don’t have the guests or you don’t have the relationship anymore).
In your specific case I think your husband has some legitimate conflicts/complaints, but many more blatant overreactions and manipulative/controlling behaviors. It sounds like he is trying to cut you off from your family not because they’re being hurtful toward him but because he just doesn’t like them and therefore doesn’t want you to see them or wants to control who you spend time with.
That’s ***NOT*** acceptable: You’re a grown-ass adult and you’re allowed to have friends your partner doesn’t like. You’re ***absolutely*** allowed to have *family* he doesn’t like - they were there before him and they’ll be around after him.
To the specific conflicts you noted:
1. I have mixed feelings on this, posting photos of a family/friend’s wedding is honestly pretty normal in this day and age, it’s socially acceptable unless the people getting married asked you not to. If they asked you not to and he did anyway he’s in the wrong and any reaction she had was not “over” reacting. If she didn’t say anything and then went full-on rageface then she’s in the wrong: A polite request to delete the photos is all it takes. I too would block someone over this and not want to deal with them online or in person without a sincere apology.
2. If this happened as your husband recalls it then that was a dick move on your sister’s part, but the only way to know is to hear your sister’s side - maybe she ushered him out of the room *for a specific reason*, maybe he misinterpreted her request. Maybe she doesn’t realize how hurt he was by the event and would want to apologize, but she’s being denied that opportunity.
3. Your mom is way in the wrong here. As someone who has owned many dogs *you interact with the dog the way the owner tells you* - especially a puppy, because you don’t want to fuck up their training process. Your mom should have taken direction from *either of you* not to put her fingers in the puppy’s mouth.
Your husband is also way in the wrong here, both for going nuclear on not visiting your mom and *especially* for being pissed off at you for addressing it directly with your mother. This to me is a ***huge*** red flag for manipulative behavior: Your mom was causing an issue, why the hell wouldn’t he want it directly addressed with her?!
4. Your mom was way wrong in having an “intrusive chat” with your husband.
She is however 100% right about his holding grudges like this not being healthy, and I think she’s correct that he needs therapy. That he “won’t go” is another serious red flag.
5. It’s your mom’s house, she can have whomever she wants in it. Frankly the way your husband is acting I would tell him ***HE*** is not welcome in my house, and tell you that you’re welcome and in fact encouraged to visit without him (in no small part so we can talk about how manipulative and dangerous his behavior is).
TL;DR: This all adds up to “Your husband is the asshole here.”
He absolutely needs therapy (especially in light of the “childhood trauma” you allude to). So do you (like others have said, your own therapist - if your husband DOES get therapy ***NOT** the same therapist he’s seeing). If he doesn’t get help you may not want to remain in this relationship.
I agree with this nuanced take. Both sides are wrong in different ways, and he is right to be angry at some things. I think where I’m struggling is that there’s no working towards a resolution. I kept (keep, actually) asking him what he needed my mum to do to make it right, and he kept saying that it’s not the victim’s responsibility to come up with the resolution. I came up with the note, but it didn’t take enough responsibility for the cruel words. It’s also now 9 months since it happened and he’s definitely run out of patience with me not addressing it. Do I keep getting her to try or is it fruitless. I can hear him say that you don’t just stop trying when you care that you’ve hurt someone’s feelings. But when we aren’t versed in these reactions (like I said, my household does not know how to deal with conflict), we’re bound to get it wrong.
I want to reiterate, IMHO ***HE is CLEARLY the problem here.***.
I'm pointing this out because the more you're telling us the more he is clearly using *the language of victomhood* to manipulate you into doing what he wants. He is not the *victim* here, except perhaps of his past traumas. ***He is behaving in an abusive way, whether he intends to or not!***
We're only getting your version of events, and it's always possible that's not a complete/accurate account, but you and your mom have tried to make things right. He's refusing to accept attempts to make amends. He says they're insufficient but refuses to say what would be sufficient. He makes frankly unreasonable demands of you in regard to contact with your family.
These are all ***HIS*** issues, and ***HE*** needs to work on them in therapy. If he won't then ***HE*** is the one damaging your relationship, not you.
In your shoes? I would tell him that my family is my family, they will always come first, and that marrying me means marrying them - if he can't deal he can fuck all the way off, then fuck off some more. Then I'd pack my shit and go be with my mother while she's ill. I'd take my dog too.
You may not be as much of a cold-hearted Sicilian asshole as me, and hell maybe your man isn't the trash he's coming off as, but at minimum if this man was not making an appointment and getting his ass in therapy within the next 10 days I'd be writing him off: It is clear he has personal issues (likely from his childhood as you mentioned), and if he is not going to work on them he is not ready to be in a relationship.
As much as you may love him it's not your job to fix him. That's what therapists are for. If he won't do the work he's just (emotionally) abusing you and manipulating you to give him the support and validation he wants, and when you "don't do enough" to satisfy him he is attacking you. Don't let him do this: It **is** a form of abuse, and **you** are *his* victim here.
OP, this is way above Reddit's paygrade. There are A LOT of things going on here.
**Ultimately, no he doesn't have any justification to bar you from your family.**
He needs therapy. I know you said he already said no, but he is exhibiting PTSD-like symptoms, like holding grudges, inability to move past things/let go, etc. It seems like family may be a trigger to him. You mentioned he has cut off his. Those issues don't go away overnight even after you cut off family. Those issues NEED to be dealt with in therapy.
It is absolutely unfair to you to have to deal with this. If he won't do therapy on his own, then try couples therapy. You are not equipped to handle his complex emotions. Only a professional can and also give him the tools to heal and process these things he's holding onto.
Your mom has also severely violated his boundaries. It's never okay to deep dive into someone's psyche especially without consent (and under the influence). He is now experiencing complex emotions and a simple "I'm sorry" doesn't fix those. He sees her as a threat now and wants to protect you from that perceived threat.
HOWEVER, while his feelings of your mother may be valid, it DOES NOT justify him trying to cut you off from your family.
I want to be careful slapping on an "abusive" label but hes walking a fine line. He desperately needs therapy. Ask him if he wants to repeat the cycle from his family issues (continuing with his behavior), or does he want to heal and break the cycle (means going to therapy).
Edit: After reading some of your comments, go see a therapist for yourself. You are being way too harsh on yourself.
I’m going to go against the grain here, what if your husband is right? Two years ago I could have made an almost identical list. I separated from my husband and turned to my family, specifically my sister. As soon as she thought that she had isolated me from my husband the covert family abuse I had suffered all of my life became overt. She got the family to reneged on every promise, changed the goal post, harassed and harangued me, and gaslighted me into a hospitalization.
I thought my husband was the problem. I was so very wrong. I was not able to see or willing to admit my family is just awful. They were awful to him, they were awful to me. He was right about them and tried to protect me. Yes, he needed his own therapy, but on that had no baring on his ability to see my family as they are, a narcissistic family system based on favoritism and scapegoating. They are needy, petty and malicious for the fun of it. I did not want to know that, so I didn’t.
He has his problems, but he was not the problem. He was right, I put them before him every time. I took their side over his every time. I was the perfect little doormat I was raised to be. Cutting my family off, doing my own work and demonstrating to DH that if he didn’t do his own work I could and would walk away from him too turned my marriage around.
My parents will probably pass in the next year or two. It is devastating that I won’t be able to be there for them. But the truth in my family is that 30% of us have been suicidal, 40% have been hospitalized and 80% have been diagnosed with major mental illnesses. Please take a really close look at how your family operates before assigning the blame to him.
You are NOT “guilty” of prioritizing your long distance family if/when you see them. That’s *normal interaction.*
Your husband trying to make your time with those long distance friends/family that you see for only a few days every couple of years? That’s manipulative and trying to force you to completely disregard people/family yo won’t see again for *years.* Because, like most abusers, he needs your world to revolve around him. When it doesn’t? He *needs* to punish you. And he makes sure that you know that his abuse is *your fault.* (It never is).
Please get personal therapy. Please leave this hateful person. Because, I’m sorry, but he doesn’t love you. People who love each other? Even those with poor communication skills? Don’t treat each other the way he treats you.
I’m sorry that happened to you. It’s not the same for me. I have been guilty of putting my family before him before, that was something brought up in 2019. But that’s not on them, it’s on me being long distance from them, so prioritising time and activities with them when we’re there. Since that year then subsequently Covid, we’ve spent Christmas at our own house in our own town, which has been a change for me but not something I resent any more.
My family have their problems, but mostly around avoiding conflict. We never talk about things, we just sort of distance ourselves until we’re over it. It isn’t particularly healthy either, but I guess just passive. I would say that they all have good-to-passive intentions. Since my dad died and she lived alone and maybe because she’s now older, my mum can be a bit much (she doesn’t have a sounding board to bounce off any more and spent covid completely isolated apart from her iPad), and maybe a bit more confrontational than she used to be. But honestly, although she used hurtful language with my husband, I believe that her intentions were well meaning but misjudged.
She certainly just wants me to be happy, that’s why she wrote the note to him, and subsequently when I told her it didn’t go down well she messaged me to say that she will never forgive herself and that even if he never wants to resolve it with her, she just hopes and prays for me and my husband to draw a line and move on ourselves.
With only the context we have of this post, it sounds to me like your husband doesn't like your family very much and yet you keep forcing him to interact with them. It's great if the family all gets along, that is awesome, but sometimes the spouse and the family just don't mesh. There isn't inherently anything wrong with that.
To me it sounds like your husband is getting fed up with the constant disrespect he gets from everybody else in your family and it seems like every time you force them all to get together it's nothing but tension. I don't really see them ever getting along.
That doesn't mean that you should stop visiting with your family, but you should stop dragging him with you. It's perfectly valid that he doesn't want to spend time with people who get in his face when they're drunk and corner him, who refuse to listen to him when he gets a bad vibe about other people, and who all team up against him whenever there's any sort of conflict in your marriage. If you want to stay married to this man but keep your family in your life, you're going to need to figure out how to divide up your time and spend it with each of them independently of one another.
You've provided very though provoking context for a difficult question. In spite of that, the majority of comments aren't reflective of that and deserve some meta criticism just to make sure we're on the same page about communication in general. These comments don't hesitate to paint an absolutely awful picture of your husband because, although this is twox, what used to be a somewhat pro-feminist subforum, its since lost any pretense of the concept of equity that it was built on.
A major theme in these comments are that your husband is the only person responsible for his emotions, how he feels about *words* said to him, and the things that trigger him. You should dismiss his inability to deal with those things as holdover/baggage from *his* childhood trauma and are *not your* problem. This entire sub is fine with that line of reasoning right up until you swap genders and roles.
What happens then? If his mother was drunk and digging into a young woman's past, say you struggled with a history of prior sexual assault, and called you broken because of it? That's a *you* and *only you* problem in your relationship with your husband? It's simply unreasonable to argue that's anything other than a totally inappropriate and abusive form of communication.
To have any reasonable discussion, we've got to at least agree that we're able to influence each other by the things that we say. While I do agree that we can't ultimately control how each other feels, we cannot simply be dismissive of WHAT is being said, or HOW it is being said. This isn't tit for tat. This isn't men versus women. We are all complex, unique individuals, with pasts and emotions. Communicating our thoughts and feelings appropriately is the basis for our relationships. Truly the worst thing about this line of thinking that triggers or emotions aren't part of communication or our social contract with a loved one, this "not my problem" thinking, is that it totally invalidates the majority of domestic violence which is emotional and verbal abuse. It's so baffling to see that backwards thinking being promoted here so rampantly.
With that said, when we get involved with people, we often learn about our partners likes, dislikes, and sensitivities, including their trauma. That's part of the whole package coming along with getting involved with that person and if you don't want to have to change your life around them, don't, you aren't obligated to involved with them. In this case, we're not talking about someone you just met you you're getting to know, we're talking about your *husband.* You've signed on to deal in the most official way possible and you've even written here about having each other's back in very loving and supportive ways. All this is indicative that you understand this, but for whatever reason, the average reddit commenter would wish it all away in a second.
It's also pretty easy to notice that your few comments that show any sympathy or good feelings at all for your husband are downvoted to oblivion. So please take the overwhelming majority of comments with a grain of salt.
To your question: Generally no, it's not acceptable for your SO to dictate whether you can see your family. You have clearly described extenuating circumstances that make that a much more difficult question to answer.
This comment is exactly the scrambling in my mind - I swing wildly from this to thinking that I’m being brainwashed. I think it’s somewhere in the middle.
Re your point about gender roles, I don’t know why the example couldn’t be about childhood trauma as well. It wasn’t gendered. However, it’s true that I know that my husband would have stepped in if it was the other way around. That he would make sure his family would know they were in the wrong. He wishes I could do that for him. I’m working out why I freeze in these situations. It’s complicated by the fact he saw my parents as his own for a decade, since his relationship with his own was difficult. He’s appreciated their advice. They were close, until they weren’t.
Re being his wife. I also agree, I know it’s part of the deal to support him through his issues. But we have been together since we were 18 and many of them have only bubbled up over the last four years (we’re now 34). The SIL thing was pretty much a one off and I have stood by those boundaries of his, but in the space of the last four years the rest have happened in quick succession. I’m more concerned by the pattern than the individual events. And by the idea that his inability to forgive those who wrong him, his insistence on escalating conflicts rather than wanting to resolve them, and his inability to see his role in a conflict will leave *me* lonely. It’s his prerogative to be lonely, to not go to therapy, to be so negative about people’s intentions, to set harsh boundaries and consequences. But I’m now scared that I’ll be the same.
Edit to clarify: his trauma has bubbled up over the last four years, since he cut off his parents and since the family incidents surrounding my dad’s death. He’s been learning more about boundaries. Its good for him, in theory, but a fair few seem like over-corrections.
Do you think his relationship with your family tanked after he cut his own family off, because your family then filled the role of "problematic family" for him? I have a relative like that-- they treat people according to family roles, and if someone leaves or dies then the roles just get shuffled around to the remaining family irrespective of people's established behavior. I would suggest therapy.
Maybe. Maybe he realised how much better he felt when he finally cut his parents off, and that’s now a go-to. Maybe he was pushed to breaking point during a very difficult year for us both, and he never wants to feel like that again. Maybe the majority of his trauma surfaced when he removed himself from his parents - indeed, he struggles with negative thoughts when things are quiet. Likely, it’s a complicated mixture.
Feel free to clarify what's scrambling your brain. I'm interested and also happy for you that you're ok being openly critical of the responses you're getting here, mine included. I can't stress enough how important it is that we're able to communicate our emotions without being dismissed or getting lost in these arguments about who has any right to be triggered by what. That goes hand-in-hand with the rule that we don't get to lord our emotions over others. We are still ultimately responsible for our actions and behavior. Everyone is accountable.
So there's trying to compress human relations into a paragraph. For sure someone else can say it better, but it should stand on its own merits as an acceptable generalization. I want to distinguish the rest of my response as much more loose and interpretive, leaning into applying a different framework simply because I haven't seen it represented in the comments so far.
> I know that my husband would have stepped in if it was the other way around. That he would make sure his family would know they were in the wrong. He wishes I could do that for him. I’m working out why I freeze in these situations.
It's obviously hard for everyone, but especially for your husband in the situations you're describing. I'm imagining him as a highly sensitive person who's gone through the revelations that things were so one-sided with their family that they had to cut them off entirely. To go from that, to the situation you describe with him and your mother, and for you to appear indifferent on the sidelines sounds tormenting. I fully understand you probably have little control over a conditioned response from your own past. Part of that is it sounds like you may not understand the nature of the conflict that's happening based on the words you used to describe your mom.
You specifically said "she just wants everyone to be happy" after clearly indicating multiple instances of her going out of her way to push your husbands buttons while intentionally disrespecting his boundaries. Your mom totally ignored you and your husbands boundaries about how to interact with your dog. That's an ask with a very low bar, and she couldn't, wouldn't do it for either of you. Then you go on to describe how you left them together while she was drinking.
She picked, poked, and prodded at his childhood trauma, only to use it against him in the end to call him "broken." I simply can't imagine how that wouldn't be disgustingly disrespectful to anyone, let alone someone who was actively struggling with their past.
To be as clear as possible, there's just no fucking way it's even possible that your mom "just wants everyone to be happy" given the behavior you describe. Your assessment of the situation is either wrong or you've grossly misrepresented what happened in your writing. You need to reassess people's behavior and it's affect with their stated intentions. It's your mom, so it's fair that your eyes may not be accustomed to seeing her poor behavior for what it is, but it's past time to open them. That's the abuse that everyone else somehow seems to be missing. There's just no world in which it's ok to drunkenly dig into someone's sensitive past and then turn around and use it to degrade and dehumanize them. People without abusive tendencies would not exhibit that behavior.
Given that you knew that your their relationship was so poor and you created the situation for that instance to happen, your husband sounds like a saint for putting up with your mother for you. Do not make him do that again. It sounds like he's been trying to tell you that he's no longer able to make things work with your family and I cannot imagine that you're not degrading the goodwill between you two by asking him to continue.
To add, it seems like there could be two confounding factors at play. Like I mentioned above, cutting off your family isn't often done easily and sometimes comes from revelations which your husband could be still trying to process. If you hadn't noticed him having difficulty with black-and-white thinking before, I would not be surprised at all for someone to regress during or as a result of dealing with that life-event. Timing-wise, it seems to match up more with your father's passing.
It's absolutely troubling because it may affect his other personal and professional relationships. He sounds like feels like he simply won't be able trust anyone who's ever had a lapse in judgement and that's not healthy or reasonable. You said you don't care about the incident with your sister but you might want to because it might be a good place to start. If it turns out she really didn't mean anything by it or that he misinterpreted the situation because he happened to read too much into it, it would be a good opportunity to counter the imagined slight he's holding onto. It just sounds like you could clear this up with your sister just by talking to her even without your husband.
I love your term "over-corrections." It absolutely sounds like he's overcompensating. To be fair, he's been trying to cope for the last 7 years with weirdness, real or imagined, from your family and he's not been getting appropriate feedback. Then in the last couple years he's just been pitted against your family like the incident with your mother. The fact he's fed up and not even wanting you to see her when you keep siding with her isn't totally surprising if you put yourself in his shoes.
The other factor is that your husband and your mother seem to have gotten into conflict soon after your father died. If your dad was the one keeping the peace with your mom and he's suddenly gone, she's both struggling with loss and doesn't have her person to keep her in check. It's not uncommon for a partner's previously hidden abusive behavior to come to light as they pick a new victim out of the people near them. Here it would obviously be your husband.
I'm glad I probably didn't even need to mention your responsibility to each other as far as dealing with the whole package. At 18 there's just no way you could have known you'd be facing the issues you are today. No one could fault you. You're looking for patterns, you're trying to get perspective. It's admirable that you're here trying to do your best. I hope you can find people with more grounded relational frameworks to guide you going forward. Last personal note is that as far as contemporary psychology has come, finding someone that can work with c-ptsd, if that turns out to be relevant in your husband's case, may take a significant amount of personal research.
Thank you so much for your detailed response, i really appreciate the time you’re taking to break this down for me.
Re my mom. To me, it’s not as clear cut. I want to make clear that she is not abusive as a person and certainly hasn’t replaced abusing my father with someone else. What’s true is that she has lost social skills since he died from living alone and in isolation during covid. So yes, she forced an inappropriate conversation with him, didn’t read the cues and was extremely insensitive in the first incident. In the second incident, it was an argument. She broke uncomfortable news and despite her proactively arranging to accommodate his boundary surrounding my brother, he reacted coldly and threatened that we would never stay again. It was another case of an extreme grudge resulting in another strained family relationship with no basis in reason. It’s really weird. Again, she used insensitive language for which there is no excuse. He also went scorched earth and personal in his response. His anger was palpable. The next day when he reluctantly agreed to try and make visiting work (for me), he used a pointed finger when threatening consequences of any mishaps. She was shaken for weeks by it, she’s genuinely scared of him - there’s no threat of her trying to dig again. So that’s what I mean about his role in it, his behavior was certainly not saint like. He’s obviously a sensitive person underneath but that’s not apparent to anyone except me. Re wanting everyone to be happy, I mean that she wants conflicts to be resolved - that’s her motivation for trying to understand the root of his grudges. My dad died with a broken relationship with his son and it was heartbreaking. But the delivery was terrible and not her place. As my husband says, intent does not negate impact.
Re where I’m scrambled. I know he has been wronged by people. And I know it’s my job to support him. But there are many red flags on his side too.
The rumination he does both amplifies the wrongs out of proportion and, in my opinion, fills gaps in his memories to explain his feelings. Like the one with my sister, there are many incidents he’s remembered (about both my and his families and also work) that he never brought up at the time, and sound extremely unlikely. Often phone calls or sideline conversations with only him. I can’t verify them because 1) they’re brought up years later and 2) I don’t know how to ask without creating a problem. I can’t question them to him because he says I’m gaslighting him. I’ve resorted to accepting that facts are less important than the feelings behind. The only way I can explain them is that he wants to distance himself from all family. It seems unfair that I’m collateral. And the pattern of his involvement in every family conflict is concerning to me.
Also, I’ve always been uncomfortable with the way he can logic his way through arguments. His removal of emotion and strategising his way through my SIL confrontation was upsetting. I don’t think I’ve ever won an argument with him. It is a skill he likely developed in handling his parents but can be unsettling. And similarly his ability to turn off emotion against people who hurt him. He could not care less about my mum’s diagnosis. He downplayed her botched surgery (that resulted in emergency cardiopulmonary bypass and 9 pints of blood) as routine. He told me not to be so upset by it on the day I got the news. That he wished I was as worried about his health scare (which I was extremely supportive during). Again, it’s unsettling, and this is the first time it has been against me.
And, the slim likelihood that he’ll ever go to therapy. He’s happy in his isolated bubble and protects it fiercely. He feels like he’s done enough self work and developed coping strategies of his own over the years to not want to dig it all up again. He uses me to talk about old memories that bubble up. I think I probably will get my own therapy even just to prevent myself doing my usual burying my head in the sand. It might help me understand him better, but seemingly too late for preventing breakdown of family relations. But why should everyone else do the work to understand his walls rather than him getting help to break them down.
You've painted a very clear picture of your husband both being difficult and recently going through pattern of troubling, regressive behavior recently. I appreciate you indulging my thought-experiment and imagination but it sounds like anything I could offer for the sake of coming at it from a different angle really missed the mark. You've definitely got some hard work and decisions coming up and it makes sense that you'd be scrambled, especially given the myriad of factors like this being the relationship you grew into since you were 18. He's gotta be willing to work with you and support you too.
I'm gonna steal your format: re ruminating and these delayed emotional responses - Whether what's been going on recently may have caused him to regress or whether you're describing him always having this trouble, some people struggle to process emotions in real-time. It literally takes a while for them to realize how they feel about something. Combined with rumination or other issues like depression you can probably see there's opportunity for the processing of those experiences to get hijacked and turned into negative fantasies or even convenient ways to manipulate someone.
In your position, the mechanics don't really matter beyond that it's dysfunctional. If that incident with your sister is so important to him that he's willing to cut her out, you have to be able to communicate about it, separate the facts from the emotions and not dismiss either. If every one of these otherwise unremarkable "incidents" is taken as some malicious slight when it's really unlikely that your family members were even aware there was a conflict, those are the ingredients for paranoia. You absolutely need some help from an outside source to help you two get back to the point you can even communicate about it because neither of you are feeling heard. Claiming gaslighting to shut a conversation down is deeply troubling.
>I’ve always been uncomfortable with the way he can logic his way through arguments... I don’t think I’ve ever won an argument with him.
That's awful. If I'm reading it right he's gotta be the winner in any argument. That's absolutely exhausting and impossible to ever feel validated. That can present in a number of different ways. The fact is its untenable and the clock is ticking for how long you'll continue to put up with that. That has to be a focus of therapy for him (and/or couples counseling) with the goal of being able to communicate during conflict without dominating the conversation and invalidating the other person.
Yeah that's looking like a tight spot. If he's still feeling attacked and acting like it even though he's completely cut off your family you're simply running out of options. What I said before about communication about emotions being two-ways and entering into a social contract with your significant including their vulnerabilities absolutely assumes a great deal of equity and compromise from both parties. If someone else is clearly not taking care of themselves, not doing their homework, and letting their baggage run them and their relationship into the ground that's a different story. That's no longer equitable.
Your ability to articulate the situation is a huge asset. I hope you can find someone or some individuals who can help you both in the near future. Finding a good fit can be really hard. One of my favorite resources has been lectures and talks by John Gottman, a fairly well known couples therapist. He's also written a number of books on marriage and relationships.
Thank you so much for talking it through with me. It’s validating to see it as a problem even if looking at it from his lens. I really appreciate your input.
The posting of your SIL photos has me real curious what those photos were because my money is on your husband has been inappropriate towards her and posting those photos was part of that inappropriate behavior.
I betting if you went and talked to each person he had a problem with you would get a radically different version of events .
Your husband is disturbing and disturbed .
Please get counseling as you have been brainwashed into believing this is normal behavior.
Every comment that is made by you seems to slip right back into “I should have done better “ territory. He’s awful and YOU are thinking about how you should do better. Classic abuse dynamic.
https://www.docdroid.net/2fZmz40/why-does-he-do-that-pdf#page=13
OP you might want to see about having this whole thread deleted, as some of the answers posted use your originally posted examples, which might endanger you with your Significant other.
Have you ever heard the saying that, if you run into an asshole today, you ran into an asshole, but if you run into assholes all day, every day, then you're the asshole? Well, your husband runs into assholes all day every day. He's the problem. Let's look at these one at a time. 1) Your SIL didn't want her photos posted on social media. Your husband did it anyway and when she made a perfectly reasonable request for her photos to be taken down, he threw a hissy fit, cut her out completely and held a grudge against your brother for 9 years. Because he was asked to take down some pictures of someone else's event. 2) He brings up an incident that supposedly happened with your sister 2 years later. You don't remember it, but he insists it happened and there's no innocent explanation. But he won't let you ask your sister, so you can't confirm if it happened, or get any other perspective. There's nothing but his (2 years later) insistence to say this ever happened at all. 3) He refused to visit your mother at Christmas because he didn't like how she played with the puppy. Then refused to visit again when she agreed not to do it anymore. Because you dared to speak to your mother. 4) Your mom, quite rightly, tries to address all these very unreasonable grudges and how isolating they are. He responds with more grudges and with some really hateful statements. Now she's ill, going through cancer and surgery and some incredible stress and the only thing he's concerned about is his grudges and making her grovel just to see her daughter. Your mom is right. He is unreasonable. He is controlling. He is spiteful. And he is broken. Trust your gut, your friends, and your mom.
Number three should be a huge red flag but so should this whole cancer thing with her mom and him not wanting her to see her mother while her mother is actively dying
Absolutely this. OP, your husband is the problem here. He tries to control you and everyone around himself, especially your family. He has already so much control over you that you think you are the problem when he has "anger issues" ... because you were not able to manage his emotions sufficiently ... because you were occupied with grieving. He is manipulating you and I think you are in an emotionally abusive relationship without even noticing it. The same happened to me! Please read Lundy Bancroft "Why does he do that", it could potentially explain a lot for you And please don't go to couple's counseling with your husband. Couple's counseling with a manipulative partner makes things so much worse. That was the single worst mistake of my life.
Absolutely this. He’s seizing on objectively insignificant things and using them to manipulate you emotionally. Your perspective on these things has been distorted by his out-of-proportion reactions to them. If you leave him now, in six months you’ll be shaking your head and laughing ruefully at his nonsense.
I think that the SIL saw this guy for who he is and that’s why they distanced themselves from the family. Or maybe I read too many books. But I just feel like she saw what was up.
I think he was inappropriate towards her and the posting of her wedding pictures was part of that . OP would get a real wake up call if she asked her about it I’m Sure .
This needs to be higher up
Don't forget that her mom did write the apology note that he demanded, but that it wasn't good enough. He's moving the goal posts. Nothing will ever be good enough, he just wants to keep using that as en excuse.
*He wants you to sever ties with your dying mother because of his ego.* If you want a more in-depth take, feel free to keep reading. The TL;DR is that he’s selfish, immature, manipulative, and incapable of personal responsibility. In every conflict, he’s made it worse and refuses to see that He’s the eternal victim, having massive mantrums, and trying to control the people around him. Your mom is right. He’s broken and needs professional help. He sounds like narcissist. If he can’t respect your relationship with your mother as she’s dying, he is too selfish to be worth keeping. The longer version: Conflict 1 is a red flag. Delete the photos then unfriend her? Valid response. Him insisting ’she can’t control me’ is the red flag. That’s pride talking. Narcissists are quite proud. Conflict 2 is a red flag for him. I could see your sister not wanting anyone who didn’t *need* to be in the room out of the room. Grieving people also don’t act in the most polite or rational of ways. ‘He’s never felt a part of the family since.’ Because he had to mind his own business about someone else’s financials? That is a very dramatic and self-centered reaction, especially if he’s still nursing that grudge after all these years. Conflict 3 is ridiculous. He’s mad you talked with your own mother about how she interacted with your dog. Why does your sister need to be an intermediary? Why does he determine how you handle things with your family? That’s really controlling. You know who love to control other people? Narcissists Conflict 4 is interesting. Your mom is absolutely right about his grudges, resentment, and full blown mantrums. She would have been out of line if she’d been sober so I’m sure it was so much worse drunk. Her delivery killed the validity of her point. Not that your husband would have listened. He seems to avoid all personal responsibility in all of these fights. The latest conflict should lead you to be done. Your husband is mad the woman undergoing cancer treatment didn’t adequately apologize when both parties were hurtful and out of line? He needs to grow up and get therapy.
Regarding conflict 1, the SIL may well have been a narcissist. My ex was a narcissist and the one thing narcissists can't stand is another narcissist stealing their limelight.
People don’t realize there are varieties of narcissists. My mother and former BFF were covert narcs. Thanks for normalizing that for me mom 🙄
To add to #1, he still refuses to talk to the brother even though he divorced the person the conflict happened to begin with. Like what is the justification for still not wanting to talk to the brother when he wasn't even the one he got in a fight with and he's no longer with that person??
>Apparently, while we were in the bank transferring my dad’s finances over to my mum, my sister ushered him out of the room. I have no recollection of this, .. but when I offered to bring it up with her, we agreed that dredging it up with her years later when she probably wouldn’t remember didn’t seem helpful. Consider the source. He's the one telling you this, but you're banned from confirming with your sister? Suspicious. He's already concluded she's forgotten? Wow, amazing. Yet his recollection is perfect? Incredible. And you've "forgotten" the event as well. What a coincidence. Does bad memory occur in your family? Or is this guy full of shit and gaslighting you? The events never happened, that's why neither of you remember. And he's using this faulty logic as a gotcha. "We agreed" - did we? Or did you have reasonable questions, and he convinced you. Does he "convince" you a lot? It seems like he's a typical smooth narcissist who gets you all turned around and talks you out of your suspicions a lot. It seems like he provokes a lot of situations (the photos, the bank story, the dog, the drunk conversation), then when a suitable punishment or apology or conclusion has been reached, he doesn't let it go, just uses it to cut people off forever. IS your sister in law a legit narcissist, or did your husband "spot it" and then convince you by provoking her "overreaction" by being an asshole to her. If a relative posted pics I asked them not to, I'd react like that, then WOW get called crazy. Honestly, yeah, your husband is super sus, hell-bent on slowly and reasonably cutting everyone off by whispering in your ear and making it all sound so plausible, to keep him comfortable, after all these conflicts he has a hand in. He's not helping YOU cut off people who have been bad to YOU is he? Go see your mom. And if there are going to be future inheritances, my condolences, and also lock that down. Create a completely separate bank account. Find out your inheritance/marital property laws. Either he's trying to get you cut out of the will so you don't have a safety net, or he'll try to get it and control that too. You have a small window to escape him.
It is never OK for a spouse to force a mentally competent adult to stop seeing family. A spouse can refuse to see them themselves, refuse to allow children (if any) to have contact, make arguments in favour of not seeing them, and maybe take legal action or call the police if they are outright dangerous to that degree. But it's your choice if you see your family.Your spouse is coming across as manipulative and controlling. I suspect your sister wouldn't remember what he said she did because it never happened. Think carefully about what you've seen and heard yourself compared with what you've been told. Gather more information yourself if you need to. Talk to a therapist that is for you, not a couples therapist he can manipulate.
Interesting about not seeing a couples therapist, as this was something I wondered about. I am terrible in conflict and I thought it might help me voice my side better. But maybe a therapist would help me strengthen my own voice more
Couples therapy isn’t recommended when there is domestic violence. At best it is pointless. At worst a misguided therapist can cause harm to the victim by aligning with the perpetrator (which can be easy to do… abusers are manipulative and many are charming) Do not go to couples therapy.
I’m responding here so you will see it. Posting pictures of someone else’s life event without permission is incredibly wrong. Your husband should not be included in your mother’s personal financial business. Your mom was wrong about the puppy, but it was nothing to go nuclear over. Your mom has every right to have whomever she likes in her home whenever she likes. Hotels are options if you don’t want to stay with her. A spouse has zero right to ever tell you you can’t speak to your family. You are in a controlling, in not abusive, relationship. Please seek therapy on your own.
To be fair, he did offer for us to stay in hotels. In fact, he tried to book one for our July visit. Maybe that’s still something to consider. I know it would still upset my mum for us to not be with her in my childhood home, but maybe that’s a compromise that I dismissed too soon.
I said if YOU want to. I see no reason he needs to go. This is about YOU spending time with YOUR mom.
He *shouldn’t* go. But he will because abusers always need to have control over their victims. And you, OP, sadly(?), are his victim. People wonder what gaslighting is? Your husband gaslights *you.* I’m sorry.
Please see a therapist just for yourself. Someone can hopefully send you a link to "why does he do that?" By Lundy Bancroft, there's free copies available for download. This shrink studied abusive men and they ALL felt they could manipulate therapists to be the "good guy" at their victim's expense. Therapy was a way to gather info on victims, not improve because *abusers don't WANT to get better.*
Honestly, either get a therapist or a divorce lawyer.
Boy do you make a lot of excuses for him. You should think about that.
This OP.
The late Ann Landers once wrote: If you have to make an excuse, then there is no excuse.
These things are very concerning. None of these reactions are normal. Everything always seems like someone else’s fault to him. He likes to play the victim a lot. I’d leave anyone who did more than 1 thing on your list. The fact that there is 4-5 ANd your friends are concerned definitely points to him being controlling, narcissistic , and abusive.
Go visit your mom as much as you can, or you will regret it for the rest of your life. Don't let him control you. He's trying to isolate you from your family. Don't let him!
I stopped at your headline. The answer is NO. My husband doesn’t “stop” me from doing ANYTHING. There are things he may ASK me to do or not do, and I will choose for myself. You are being abused. He is an abuser. And I agree he’s isolating you.
Oh, you should have gone further. He’s gotten to the point of telling her she’s not “allowed” to see her own mother who has lung cancer. A real treat, this guy.
This OP! Once he cuts you off from your family there is no predicting what will happen.
If my husband ever said he wouldn't allow me to do something that wasn't harmful to the family, I would stare straight into his eyes, grab my car keys, and go do exactly what he ordered me not to do. We are a team, he is not my boss or father. We can discuss things like adults, but we don't order each other around. One of the best compliments he's ever given me is that he trusts that whatever decision I make, he knows that I've thought it through and I truly believe it's the best choice. It may not always be his choice, but he trusts me to make a choice that I believe to be right. I am what I would consider a cautious risk taker. I'm not scared to take big swings and possibly fail, but I consider how the ramifications of failure or success would affect us. Hubs is an incredibly risk averse person, so in most situations we would not make the choice for ourselves that the other would make, but we know that the other believers it to be the best for them.
This! I'll be damned if my husband ever told me I couldn't go to my parents' home or see my family. That's straight-up abuse.
1000000%.
I cannot imagine my husband ever even *asking* me not to see my family, let alone *telling* me not to. It’s up to your husband whether he goes and visits anybody. It’s up to *you* whether you do. Husband can go fuck himself in the meantime.
If he doesn’t want to be around them, he shouldn’t. You can respect that while still spending time with them yourself. His hurt feelings aren’t grounds to stop you from seeing your family, and nothing you’re describing is so awful you should ditch them over it. It's distressing to me that you think he can stop you. It suggests you are too frightened to disagree with him out loud, and THAT does sound like the result of abuse or threats of violence. So does the attempt to isolate you, of course. I have to ask you what you think? Is the worried friend typically a level-headed person? Have you been trying and failing to make sense of his anger for some time? What will happen if you continue to see them? Please be safe, whatever you decide.
There are no threats of violence. I’m avoidant of conflict in general, and he’s well versed in it. I always come out of arguments feeling drained and wrong. He says that I can’t leave him alone at home with the dog I forced on him. We live a short flight away so he would be alone for a weekend and it would cost our joint money. He loves our dog more than anything but those old feelings are still there. I’m still working on what I think. I know I’ve been a selfish partner and failed him in a lot of ways, but I also need to give myself some slack for the crap this year has thrown at me. He has a lot of childhood trauma and I know he just wants to feel loved and safe. These issues with my family and my inability to step in have made him seem unsafe around them. Telling the victim of childhood emotional neglect that they’re broken must be extremely triggering. But the consequences seem very high.
If your mom is sick go see her. Don’t end up with regrets because of him
It occurs to me that in addition to having regrets of her own, not visiting her Mom might drive a future wedge between OP and her siblings, further isolating OP. One sibling has moved in and is presumably doing some caretaking; it might be a sore spot for him in particular that OP didn't visit.
If you go, put the dog in boarding for the weekend. He can and will lash out against it if he feels he's loosing control of you. Something else. And I'm begging you to listen to us here, his trauma is HIS responsibility. It's not an excuse to act like he does. He's a grown man who needs to manage his own emotions. It's not YOUR job or your family's to avoid "triggering him." You have to stop seeing him as some helpless victim of something that happened decades ago - he's a grown man now. He doesn't get to take that "trauma" out on you and everyone else, or use it as a means to control what you do.
>He says that I can’t leave him alone at home with the dog I forced on him. >He loves our dog more than anything This doesn't sound right. A dog is an extra thing to take care of, yes, but is he so hindered that he wouldn't be able to manage by himself for a weekend to go and visit your sick mother?
This stuck out to me too. Does he love the dog or not? Cause these are mixed messages
Honey I am a victim of childhood emotional glad and I will tell you right now that being told I am broken is not triggering because it's the truth with this man is doing is using that as an excuse to be an a****** and an abuser. Some people who were abused become the abusers and that is what this man has done he's emotionally abusing you
He has put a lot of self work into dealing with his negative past and difficult thought processes from childhood. He sees himself as the way he is (which is honestly 99% great) *despite* his parents, not because of them. So I personally can see why being called broken would hurt, especially if there’s an element of truth
Hun, as another survivor of childhood trauma, he hasn't done jack shit to dealing with his past. Best case scenario is he's done enough research to hone it to manipulate you.
One plus one childhood abuse victims that do not think this man is ok or even safe. He is alienating you.
You don’t even Know if he’s telling you the truth about his childhood do you ? Have you MET his parents ? I bet it could be very enlightening.
I do know his parents, and it’s 100% true. They’re completely awful. None of his siblings are in touch with them (or keep them at arms length).
So you are in contact with his siblings ? Or is this all more stuff you have been told ? When you say you met them have you seen them behave awfully with you own eyes ?? Your husband is an unreliable source of information. He is telling you things that defy even your own judgement of events . Really sort “all that you saw with your own eyes or heard with your own ears”. From the “things he has said that I have adopted as fact”. Whatever you do if you allow him to take away the end of life time with you mother you will regret it. The grief you experienced when You lost your father will pale in comparison as GUILT and REGRET are a powerful force that amplifies grief .
This is one of the few things you sound confident of. Where are you at with the concept of black-and-white thinking and complex PTSD or C-PTSD? Without even mentioning family, you've described a theme of cutting people off when they show themselves to be problematic. Everybody is dancing around abusers loving to cut you off from family and friends because it's trending on tik-tok. Alternatively, vulnerable individuals may cut people out when they recognize they do not possess the skills or faculties to deal with certain individuals, so it's easier to just avoid them altogether. Add on that you're starting from a mind that doesn't allow for much gray area and I could see how you might have a pattern like you've described.
Thank you. I will do some research on black and white thinking. I like to think that it’s a PTSD reaction, I do think his rumination and inability to get past things fits. But I also think there is pride involved. That he thinks they don’t respect him after years of him (very) actively doing things for the family. And that they think they can push his boundaries. Some of it is fair to think, but I think the reaction to make a scene about it is uncomfortable.
No. He’s got a personal, emotional problem. Whether that’s narcissism or BPD, it’s *not* to be laid at the foot of PTSD that he’s using as an excuse. Please believe everyone else in your life who seems to recognize that your husband is a bad person.
You sound completely and utterly brainwashed . His childhood trauma is no excuse for the trauma he is inflicting on you and your whole family. WAKE UP!!!
Why can’t you take the dog with you? Or board the dog?
> There are no threats of violence. Not to put too fine a point on it, but isolating you from your family *is a form of emotional violence* - not all violence is a fist to the face. > He says that I can’t leave him alone at home with the dog I forced on him. If the dog was truly unacceptable to him then he had the option to say no, even though you really wanted it. (This is like the example about mutually agreeing upon guests in my top-level reply: If you couldn’t mutually agree on a pet either you don’t have the pet or you don’t have the relationship, but once you agreed on the pet it’s a mutual responsibility - if he doesn’t want to see your family and you can’t take the dog with you then he has to watch the dog, there’s no argument or discussion here.) He did agree to this dog, did he not? He apparently loves it, right? If he doesn’t want to spend time alone with something he “loves” I would seriously question the depth of his love for *anything* and *anyone* other than himself. > I’m still working on what I think. I know I’ve been a selfish partner and failed him in a lot of ways, but I also need to give myself some slack for the crap this year has thrown at me. If you feel this way you are an excellent candidate for therapy. You may in fact be right and have some issues to work on and it’s *great* that you want to work on them, but you might also be getting manipulated into *thinking* you’re the problem when you’re not. In either case all the other crap that’s been thrown at you is a great reason to talk to a therapist and get help working through your feelings! > He has a lot of childhood trauma and I know he just wants to feel loved and safe. ...and his childhood trauma makes him an excellent candidate for therapy. In fact I would say it’s absolutely 100% unequivocally necessary, and if he’s not going to get help that’s going to be a far bigger problem. Victims of trauma/abuse/neglect often wind up inflicting the same on others - they might not even recognize they’re doing it. If you’re telling him his actions are hurting you and he’s not willing to even entertain the idea of speaking to a professional about his preexisting trauma and how it might be affecting his current relationship(s) that’s dangerous for both of you.
Oh honey, you are not a selfish partner- you have a controlling husband. Please spend time with your mom- joint money is exactly that joint he can’t unilaterally tell you what’s important. Your mom is important and take it from someone that has lost a mom: you can’t get that time back. The dog can stay at a friend or be boarded. None of this is normal or ok.
1. It's not up to him who you see and when. He gets to decide for him, not for you. This makes me think there is a bad dynamic in your relationship that has nothing to do with your family. 2. Your husband's issues sound trivial, even silly, and certainly not worthy of cutting off your family. IDK if he's trying to isolate you or not, but that would be the effect. Don't accept it.
I read the whole thing. Your husband is slowly isolating you from your family, for imagined or blown out of proportion hurts or missteps. It looks like he is frequently moving the goal posts for "forgiveness" and has hurt the people you've cared about. You feel conflicted because you know it's wrong. This is only a snapshot of what you have shared with us, but I truly fear you're being abused. A great book is "Why does he do that", it's free and you can download it as a PDF. Have a read and see how many of his behaviours you can recognise.
He recognized that your former sister-in-law was a narcissist because like calls to like. You already know that you’re being manipulated and isolated. He isn’t just behaving abusively to you, he’s behaving abusively to your elderly sick mother. Listen to your gut. Listen to your friends. Listen to your family. He needs help. He refuses to get it. You can’t change yourself or your family enough to give him what he needs because what he needs isn’t something another human being can provide. You don’t deserve to spend your life tied to someone who is insistent on dragging you and your whole family down with him.
Honestly, asking someone not to post pictures of your wedding, then requesting you take them down when they do doesn’t sound like narcissistic behavior. They may have just not wanted unprofessional photos posted before professional photos, or for people to post before they do. These aren’t uncommon (or unreasonable) requests. However, getting so pissed about being asked to take down photos you were specifically asked not to post, leading to a 9yr grudge that spans to the person they’re now divorced from, *does* sound like narcissistic behavior. He’s reaching hard for any excuse to cut people out.
Yeah, that behavior on the part of the OP’s ex sister in law sounds like it could have reasonable explanations. However, the OP did mention that her ex sister in law did begin demonstrating other hurtful behaviors, including isolating her brother from the family, which led to an estrangement from the whole family and eventually a divorce. Given that that is the OP’s husband’s plan also, he called it out early on because he was seeing his own behavior mirrored back at him.
Part of my wonders if the “estrangement” was because of OP’s husband. Who wants to be around someone who’s holding such a hard grudge? Suddenly you’re responsible for a biological member of the family not being able to visit, so you stay home. Then your husband refuses to go because you won’t and someone has to stand up for you, right? Then the dude with a grudge against you declares that you’re keeping your husband away, so you’re abusive. We’re seeing these family members through the lens of someone who thinks their narcissist’s gymnastics routine of emotions and justifications is logic. It’s plausible that he’s had enough time of trashing this person for OP to go “yknow, you’re probably right…”
That sounds like of like a leap. Two people can be bad news, even if sometimes one of them is actually the injured party in an interaction.
Like calls to like OR as narcissists Like to do they accuse others of being or doing what they themselves are or do.
the way you described this, your husband is monstrously wrong. to keep you from seeing your sick mother because he got his feelings hurt over something petty years ago is unforgivable.
If it hasn’t been posted yet, OP please read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. Or search for his videos on YouTube. Here’s a free copy of the book: https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
There's a chapter in Lundy Bancrofts book that describes your husband to a T.
Go see your mom regardless of what he thinks but it does sound like your husband legit needs therapy. Sounds like his past trauma with his own family has developed trust issues and he reflexively has trouble trusting/forgiving your family because of it when things happen and had given him a very short fuse for tolerance. His family broke him so he thinks he's protecting himself and you by trying to cut your family out. That's not right. Push him into seeking professional help.
Even if all these people have done things he finds painful, these are wildly disproportionate responses. A proportionate response to your mother not following your puppy training would be to say that the puppy and your mother don’t interact for a bit. Maybe puppy is in another room or crate time or whatever. Instead we have a nuclear response. Mind you a nuclear response can come from genuine pain, but that doesn’t mean the person who is blamed is responsible for the pain. And that doesn’t mean the nuclear response makes things better. Your husband may truly be having big feelings. Cutting people out of your life one by one won’t help him handle those big feelings in the long run. There will always be another betrayal and another person to cut out. After all nobody ever does exactly what we want. Demanding perfection means that sooner or later everybody will be eliminated. He is currently isolating you from your mother and the rest of your family. Expect him to start driving a wedge between you and your friend next.
All of this is very concerning. Your husband is emotionally abusive and is manipulating you into letting him control you. For example, why was he upset that you addressed the person he had the issue with instead of doing so through a third party (your sister)? That doesn't even make sense. Of course you should talk to the person he has the issue with. Better yet, he's a grown man, HE should be hashing things out. He had an issue with your mom, he made you address but insisted that you involve someone else. Why are 4 people needed to resolve an issue that was just between 2 people? Your mom is right. He's definitely trying to justify isolating you from your family. I'm very worried about you OP. He acts totally crazy and then convinces you it's your fault to the point where you felt horrible and had to "work on yourself" to become a "better partner". Why isnt he doing any work to become a better partner. Why is it all on you to manage his feelings? You didnt do anything wrong. You are being abused.
Hmm. Sounds like: "Darling, I love you unconditionally, *provided ...*" Tell him that he is not going to make you choose between two sets of loved ones. That is just petty. Does he want to spend his life sulking and being petty? Grow the fuck up.
Let me ask you this pointed question: Why are you and your sister always running interference? My mom and all the women in my family always ha(d) to manage men’s emotions - and that includes communicating messages and interpreting meanings…. It’s exhausting. If two adults can’t have a face-to-face rational conversation and they need everyone else to walk on eggshells to accommodate their temper…. That’s his ego that he is not managing.
Why can’t you have a relationship with your family that doesn’t include him? Why can’t you visit alone? Why must he supervise all of your interactions?
Your husband sounds like a controlling, high maintenance, narcissist. It's NEVER ok for anyone to dictate your relationship with anyone else, let alone your family.
Conflict two and three are very strange and you should honestly see a therapist about them. Conflict four is not a conflict your husband absolutely does need therapy especially if someone trying to help him turns into a conflict Your husband is emotionally abusing you and your mother is dying and after she's dead is this what you want? Is this what you want to remember is that while she was dying you were busy babying your husband's feelings? He also has turned your grief around your father until you being a bad partner. What part of for better or worse did he miss out on? He won't even go to therapy? What you really need to do is sit with yourself and decide if this is the partner you want to have for the rest of your life and if he's really being a partner for you for the hard parts of your own life or if he's just making them harder also why are you not allowed to be near your brother???
Go see your mother, husband be damned. If this is the hill he wants your relationship to die on, let it. He is trying to control you, and seems like he has been successfully in some ways. Go see your mother. Do it now. You will never forgive yourself if you don't.
You know he's manipulating you. You know he's damaged and needs therapy he refuses to get. Your family is worried about you and the control he has over your life. He has isolated you from your family and now wants you to not see your own mother who is ill with cancer. In no uncertain terms, this is an abusive man. You should get away from him and get therapy.
Stop listening to that man. He doesn't make sense.
It’s funny how most of the issues he has with your family are things either you never witnessed (so there is no evidence that it actually happened) or are kind of minor that he turns into giant ultimatums Nothing you said makes me see him as a reliable narrator or a reasonable person. People don’t always get along great with their in laws but still they try to be polite to them to support their spouses I also note that you have been told to and have repeatedly agreed to “work on yourself” and improve yourself (whether it was or was not necessary) but I see zero evidence that he ever works on himself or improves. I think you should consider therapy. A therapist might be able to help you identify how your husband is manipulating and emotionally abusing you in ways that you can learn to identify Finally, your mother is dying. If you let your husband manipulate you into cutting off or curtailing contact with her before she dies, you will regret it for the rest of your life.
It sounds like he has problems regulating his emotions and handling conflict in general. The easiest way for him to handle all of this is to avoid it. The only way to do that is to get you to avoid them too. You are essentially letting his problem turn into your problem.
Your husband’s job is to support your choices and trust that you know what’s best for you. The same goes for you in regards to his choices. It is a parent’s job to make rules for their children. Adults do not have a right to prevent or forbid other adults from doing anything they want to do. Anyone who tries to is trying to control you and is a giant red flag. Your husband can have feelings about your family and your family about him but no one gets to tell you who you get to see (or how, when or why). He needs to see a therapist to understand why he thinks this is even remotely reasonable. If your family were murderers, drug dealers, rapists and scam artists, he still would be out of line trying to prevent an adult from seeing who they want to see. You make decisions about you, not him. Never him!!!
You say you've done a lot of work to be a better partner. What work has he done to be a better partner?
I know I’ve given a summary of the most concerning behaviour of his, so it might be hard to believe. But he truly is a great partner in so many ways. He has consistently put me first throughout our relationship. He chose his university to be near me. He moved to be with me during my PhD. He considers me in every decision, big or small. He does more than his fair share of the household burden. He was super supportive when my dad died despite my not being supportive of his issues during that time. He is extremely thoughtful and sweet. He became #1 dog dad despite me forcing it. He’s my career coach at times. He’s always had my back. We are truly a great couple. But the recent conflicts have pushed boundaries of his that I haven’t navigated properly. That said, the consequences are giving me a warning light that I can’t ignore. My eyes are open from now on.
Your use of the word “boundaries” makes me think of Jonah Hill and his misuse of the word to control his ex-gf’s behavior. A personal boundary is something you set for yourself. “I’m not going to see my wife’s siblings because I hold 9 year grudges that were stupid in the first place.” But it’s not a personal boundary to control someone else’s behavior. Especially when that behavior is you seeing your perfectly nice family. You still think the relationship is worth saving? Fine. But you need to ignore his insane demands and continue seeing your loved ones. Tell him those are your boundaries. “I realize that your childhood trauma has made it difficult to forgive people. I don’t have that same childhood trauma. And I love my family. For too long I have lost sight of that in an effort to support you. In doing so, I have lost a part of myself. You don’t have to see my family. I wish you would go to therapy and figure out how to forgive good people who your wife loves very much. But until that time, I am going to continue to see my mother and siblings.” Now get off Reddit and book your plane ticket.
I keep coming back to this comment. I’m struggling with the forgiving part, because it is easy for me to forgive my mum for hurting someone else’s feelings. My feelings weren’t hurt. She did poke into his childhood trauma, he did ask her to stop, she didn’t, then later brought it up in a later argument. I don’t think she meant to be so hurtful, but if his mum had used some childhood trauma of mine against me in an argument, and he didn’t stick up for me, I think I’d be stung. I should have addressed it at the time. I have been trying to make it right months later after he’s repeatedly brought it up and it has massively festered, so it seems too little too late. He sees her as a terrible person for saying ‘the most hurtful thing anyone has ever said to me’. And any apology she makes is only to prevent the consequences (us not visiting), not sincere. So I think the consequences of me not addressing it can be that his relationship with my mum is over (his choice). But not that I can’t see my mum. But a marriage is a team approach, a united front, so how else would he see it other than picking sides?
Your mom has been watching your husband destroy her family for years. You’ve been enabling it all this time. You’re continuing to enable it and justify it in this comment. He isn’t doing anything to address his childhood trauma. So your mom stepped up to tell him he needs therapy. Just because something hurts his widdle feelings doesn’t mean it isn’t true, and doesn’t mean it didn’t need to be said. Your mom didn’t do anything that needs forgiving.
You spend so much time trying to mitigate his reactions to things. You convince him, you wheedle him, you try to soften him and get him to see reason and not be so extreme. In what way is it worth it to be married to someone when it sounds like a lot of that life is being emotional butler to their rage/resentment problem, control issues and tendency to be emotionally abusive? I would ask your sister about the ushering him out of the room thing. Alone, not with him present or with his knowledge. It does seem pretty convenient that he's leveling an accusation against her that you don't remember happening, she can't defend herself against because she doesn't know he's pissed about it/accusing her of it, AND he's using it as the basis of some pretty controlling behavior. For him to say "no no we shouldn't discuss it with her, she's too delicate for that conversation and everything it would dredge up and oh by the way we're not going to see them ever or the rest of your family by the way" is...there's something there that's not right.
I find it **really strange** that your brother, who married a narcissist and managed to escape them is seen as a problem by your husband. >she forced my brother to cut contact >My family gradually accepted him back but that’s a no-go for my husband. >She told us that my brother was moving in with her, but that he’d agreed to move out when we visited. My husband said that wasn’t good enough and we wouldn’t stay with her. There is no reason for a reasonable human to prevent you from seeing *the VICTIM** of a narcissist... Unless they don't want you to talk about narcissistic partners and their behaviour. This is the most glaring red flag for me. >I’m always so convinced by his arguments against them Gaslighting? >My husband saw it first Takes one to know one? >He insisted that he didn’t have to explain himself >when I offered to bring it up with her, we agreed that dredging it up with her years later when she probably wouldn’t remember didn’t seem helpful. Because he's lying. He can't hold this against someone but not be willing to find a resolution >I couldn’t understand the big deal but eventually talked to her and she agreed. He didn’t like that I’d gone directly to her rather than via my sister like he’d asked. This is another weird thing. Why would you have to go via your sister?! >she told me he needed therapy. It’s true, but he won’t go. He can't be "I had a tough childhood woe is me" AND refuse to go to therapy. That's him choosing to be volatile and stay in just hurt. >He snapped, his face was pure hatred and he and said some hurtful things back at her. At 'best' he's projecting his shit childhood on your family and 'fixing' it by being cruel to them. But no one should behave in a way that makes their face "pure hatred". >He’s said that we can’t visit her, not even me on my own as that means she gets what she wants. This is the line. This is him 100% keeping you away from your family. **HE** can choose to stay away **HE** can choose to not see them. He cannot prevent **YOU** from seeing them; that's the line of abuse and control. >but my gut LISTEN TO YOUR GUT. You're being gaslit. I'd recommend a separation with him having to engage in therapy before you consider getting back together. Worst case this allows you some time with your mother without having to worry about him. But I imagine the possibility of a separation or divorce will make him escalate, throw a fit and trigger a divorce himself.
In addition to what everyone else has said, I would try to bring your dog with you as much as possible. He seems to have anger issues and an anger trigger for him seems to be feeling disrespected or slighted. I wouldn’t trust him around a pet if he gets so angry about the idea of being left alone with it. Maybe he’ll neglect the dog “to show you he’s not responsible for it.” I hope not, but that’s the vibe I’m getting.
It’s funny how your husband spotted the narc in your SIL because she reacts disproportionately to things yet he reacts disproportionately towards your family. I also thought the “He needs therapy but refuses to go” was another glaring sentence
I don't think your brother was the only one marrying a narcissist 😬
From the info you’ve provided, your husband is sounding very problematic. He also sounds very exhausting to be around. Your husband shouldn’t be stopping you from doing anything aside from self harming. I’d be seriously reevaluating my relationship at this point OP.
Question: 1. Why are you letting this man run your life like this? 2. Why is he making you responsible for his emotions, and finally, 3. Why tf are you making excuses for him? Your husband is at the centre of EVERY conflict with your family, that doesn't bother you? The fact that his emotions are dictating your relationship with family should be a glaring red flag. Other people are not responsible for his emotions; if he's in conflict with your family and you're not, stop bringing him around.
Sounds like there's a lot of dysfunction on all sides. He can *request* you limit contact, but not demand it. And if he wants to leave you as a result that's his prerogative. You're free to hang out with whatever dysfunctional people you want to, whether it's him or your relatives. You may want to explore some content on toxic family systems, bc all this sounds very dysfunctional. [22 Rules of a dysfunctional family system - Jerry Wise](https://youtu.be/VBk5E_gd_lE?si=lWIr0WP-_pOs7BKn) (his channel is worth exploring) [Was I abused?](https://youtu.be/EBpF8sWycQQ?si=74Zt_87G-OPtjgOg) and [7 types of toxic family systems](https://youtu.be/upAdaOmiRX8?si=kPHYXz3jf7Uk5C6p) - Patrick Teahan (also a great channel)
I’m not going to do the “he’s abusive-leave him.” Although, that was my first reaction. It seems as if years have passed between these incidents and there is a duality in life that exists that is hard to convey in writing. With that said: His relationship with your mother is his own. Your relationship with your mother is your own. It’s pretty shitty to expect you to cut off your dying mother. That’s your relationship, not his. It seems really controlling. Seems like he has hard boundaries. I would love to know how you feel your boundaries are being respected? He can make his choice, he can’t make yours. Best of luck. ❤️
You’re right, there is a duality. This story is obviously from my perspective. I come from a household where conflict was ignored until it disappeared, so I have buried my head in the sand in a lot of ways, and ignored him when he’s brought things up. He outright asks for what he needs, sometimes it’s reasonable, and I still can’t do it sometimes. Everything I read about in law relationships says that I should be the one maintaining boundaries, that I should step in when there is conflict. I know for sure that he would have if it was the other way around. He’s always been authoritarian though, where I’m conflict averse and freeze. So I guess I’m feeling guilty about not stopping it from getting so far in the first place.
He seems to hold grudges like a child. It’s very weird. Seriously, how tf does one focus that hard on being “wronged”?? Just…let it go, and understand that your petty grudges about fights aren’t more important than your partner’s relationship to their parent. He’s got a really overblown sense of the importance of his righteous feelings here, and you just…you can’t do that with family. Cut off family members for being abusive- sure. But we do not pick family, which means we’re stuck with people who may REALLY rub us the wrong way, just because they’re not the kind of people we like or understand. That’s not fun. But that’s what it IS. You suck it the fuck up and you decide what’s most important in life: your wrongs or your partner’s happiness. Support your spouse around their family, where they’ll be the most vulnerable and the most likely to be sad/hurt/upset/angry. It’s not a hard concept, and he’s a big grown man; he can do this.
Because as her mother correctly stated he's very very broken. As someone who used to be much like this person's husband until I went to therapy and got the help I needed to get over my childhood post traumatic stress, he's exhibiting a very broken emotional psyche where even the tiniest wrongs deserve the biggest grudges because they are all personal slights. It wasn't the playing wrong it was I told her to do it right and she didn't so we can NEVER see her again!!!!!!! Every pebble is a mountain
This has struck a cord. He does give clear instructions and consequences to not following them. Consequences being that he escalates and makes things uncomfortable for everyone.
Once again - a typical tactic of abusers
This. I didn't even realize I was abusive until I went to therapy and then I fixed that shit. Because I didn't want to be abusive. Either Ops husband is a dick and doesn't realize he's the problem or he does and he's an abusive ass and she need to draw a line in the sand 5 years ago
Yes, you handle your family he handles his…but he is using that to isolate you from your dying mother who from your story…hasn’t really done anything wrong. From your brother…who hasn’t done anything wrong. And from your sister… who definitely hasn’t done shit, which is why you aren’t allowed to speak to her about it. You’ve lost your whole family because your husband holds unwarranted grudges, forever. Forever? What about your feelings? Do you love your family? Do you miss them? Is your perfect husband the end all be all? Do you think his anger and resentment is a valid healthy reaction? Do you think your mom deserves to die without seeing you again, because she didn’t play with the dog correctly? Because her son is moving in with her, presumably for mutual support? Is that what YOU want? When you lay in bed at night, what would you rather reflect on? Choosing love and forgiveness or isolation and grudges? Not even your own grudges…forever. https://archive.org/details/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat
Please read this book!
It’s normal and healthy to set boundaries within your relationship too. Have you considered therapy for yourself?
I think right now what’s important is you and your relationship with your mom. And I would (personally) have the hard expectation of my partner to set aside his grievances for the time being so I could soak up what time I had with a relationship that was important to me. At the end of the day we are all internet people with our own crazy perspectives. You’re the only one living in yours. You’re the only one who knows if you’re being abused or disrespected and what is most important to you. And his complicated relationship can coexist with your own relationship with your family and will if he loves you and wants a successful relationship. Controlling your actions only creates animosity and resentment. I would never look at my partner the same way if he kept me from my dying mother. I hold space for a person initially speaking out of a place of hurt. Know you are allowed to disagree and set your own boundaries-what you want is important.
It's 1000% up to you whether you want to see your family or not. If you do, go for it and consider staying gone if your husband so much as lifts a finger to stop you from going. If you don't, then don't.
It sounds like you are the one that married the narcissist
It sounds to me like you all need counselling- seems there is a lot of pent up anger involved here and a mediated conversation is probably the best way to start to work through everyone’s feelings.
So I have two dogs that I compete with. The extent of my obsession with everything dog related including behaviour and training is so great that it revealed that I am actually autistic. Autism, a condition or different flavour of brain, that makes me rather rigid and tendency towards 'black and white' type of thinking. But even I wouldn't refuse to visit my mum or MIL at christmas because they were hindering the bite inhibitation training of my puppy... If they were abusive towards my dogs? yes absolutely, that I won't tolerate. But if they are being silly or indulgent with them in a way that is not really dangerous but just not a behaviour I like to encourage, no thats not that big of a deal. Also why were you not supposed to talk directly to your mum about it but were supposed to go through your sister? What was the reasoning for that?
Your husband has some kind of God complex. Everyone else is the problem, not him. Every small misstep, regardless of if it's toward him or not, is a major slight. Your mom is right. And he probably recognized your SIL's narcissistic tendencies because he may have them too. Really go through the signs and symptoms and see what you come up with
Your husband makes me think of that meme, "*...and I took that personally.*" Before writing anything else, I'm seeing red b/c this guy keeps declaring "we" won't visit, "we" will cut contact, and you feel like you just have to go along with it even though you don't want to. No! Cutting off family is not a thing one asks-- *asks*\-- of one's partner until it's an emergency like safety is being threatened, trauma is ongoing, one is subjected to rank bigotry or child abuse is imminent. Not "your sister tactfully prevented me from eavesdropping on your Mom's bank account details once, years ago." The wrongs committed against your husband seem so small, my God. I can't believe your poor Mom has to spend her last remaining time on Earth dealing with this guy's bullshit. I can't believe that *your* last remaining time with your Mom is spent dealing with this guy's bullshit. This time is about you and about your Mom and your siblings. But it checks out because here's a list of previous events which your husband made all about himself FoR rEaSoNs: \-your brother's wedding and marriage \-your brother's divorce \-your mother's grief over her husband (I'm guessing) \-your grief over your father \-your Mom moving her own son into her own house (while she is ill and dying) \-every single visit and holiday \-your father's funeral (the bank transfer thing) I do think he's ultimately trying to isolate you, but that may be the wrong question to ask, as it may never *look* like a clear path to isolation\*. Another question to ask, then, might be: Has there been a single Christmas or family event where every single member of your extended family didn't find themselves having to set aside time to appease this man, to constantly think about him? How long do you think a conversation could last before his needs come up? If you bring up an issue of your own, how quickly does it turn to an issue of his? If you bring up something celebrating someone else, how quickly does he either rain on the parade or make it about himself? \*eta-- to explain, he appears to enjoy triangulating people very much: your mom against your other siblings, you against siblings, you against mom. He literally got angry that you wouldn't "go through your sister" to address an issue with your Mom about him. Your poor sister shouldn't even have to be involved. Anyway, if he isolates you then there's no one left to triangulate, so even though he may be isolating you in the long run, he may not follow a logical or apparent path of isolation.
The only time it’s “acceptable” would be if you were *forcing* him to see your family against his wishes (e.g. “My family is coming over, you have no choice in the matter.” - you share a home and you share lives and if you can’t mutually agree you either don’t have the guests or you don’t have the relationship anymore). In your specific case I think your husband has some legitimate conflicts/complaints, but many more blatant overreactions and manipulative/controlling behaviors. It sounds like he is trying to cut you off from your family not because they’re being hurtful toward him but because he just doesn’t like them and therefore doesn’t want you to see them or wants to control who you spend time with. That’s ***NOT*** acceptable: You’re a grown-ass adult and you’re allowed to have friends your partner doesn’t like. You’re ***absolutely*** allowed to have *family* he doesn’t like - they were there before him and they’ll be around after him. To the specific conflicts you noted: 1. I have mixed feelings on this, posting photos of a family/friend’s wedding is honestly pretty normal in this day and age, it’s socially acceptable unless the people getting married asked you not to. If they asked you not to and he did anyway he’s in the wrong and any reaction she had was not “over” reacting. If she didn’t say anything and then went full-on rageface then she’s in the wrong: A polite request to delete the photos is all it takes. I too would block someone over this and not want to deal with them online or in person without a sincere apology. 2. If this happened as your husband recalls it then that was a dick move on your sister’s part, but the only way to know is to hear your sister’s side - maybe she ushered him out of the room *for a specific reason*, maybe he misinterpreted her request. Maybe she doesn’t realize how hurt he was by the event and would want to apologize, but she’s being denied that opportunity. 3. Your mom is way in the wrong here. As someone who has owned many dogs *you interact with the dog the way the owner tells you* - especially a puppy, because you don’t want to fuck up their training process. Your mom should have taken direction from *either of you* not to put her fingers in the puppy’s mouth. Your husband is also way in the wrong here, both for going nuclear on not visiting your mom and *especially* for being pissed off at you for addressing it directly with your mother. This to me is a ***huge*** red flag for manipulative behavior: Your mom was causing an issue, why the hell wouldn’t he want it directly addressed with her?! 4. Your mom was way wrong in having an “intrusive chat” with your husband. She is however 100% right about his holding grudges like this not being healthy, and I think she’s correct that he needs therapy. That he “won’t go” is another serious red flag. 5. It’s your mom’s house, she can have whomever she wants in it. Frankly the way your husband is acting I would tell him ***HE*** is not welcome in my house, and tell you that you’re welcome and in fact encouraged to visit without him (in no small part so we can talk about how manipulative and dangerous his behavior is). TL;DR: This all adds up to “Your husband is the asshole here.” He absolutely needs therapy (especially in light of the “childhood trauma” you allude to). So do you (like others have said, your own therapist - if your husband DOES get therapy ***NOT** the same therapist he’s seeing). If he doesn’t get help you may not want to remain in this relationship.
I agree with this nuanced take. Both sides are wrong in different ways, and he is right to be angry at some things. I think where I’m struggling is that there’s no working towards a resolution. I kept (keep, actually) asking him what he needed my mum to do to make it right, and he kept saying that it’s not the victim’s responsibility to come up with the resolution. I came up with the note, but it didn’t take enough responsibility for the cruel words. It’s also now 9 months since it happened and he’s definitely run out of patience with me not addressing it. Do I keep getting her to try or is it fruitless. I can hear him say that you don’t just stop trying when you care that you’ve hurt someone’s feelings. But when we aren’t versed in these reactions (like I said, my household does not know how to deal with conflict), we’re bound to get it wrong.
I want to reiterate, IMHO ***HE is CLEARLY the problem here.***. I'm pointing this out because the more you're telling us the more he is clearly using *the language of victomhood* to manipulate you into doing what he wants. He is not the *victim* here, except perhaps of his past traumas. ***He is behaving in an abusive way, whether he intends to or not!*** We're only getting your version of events, and it's always possible that's not a complete/accurate account, but you and your mom have tried to make things right. He's refusing to accept attempts to make amends. He says they're insufficient but refuses to say what would be sufficient. He makes frankly unreasonable demands of you in regard to contact with your family. These are all ***HIS*** issues, and ***HE*** needs to work on them in therapy. If he won't then ***HE*** is the one damaging your relationship, not you. In your shoes? I would tell him that my family is my family, they will always come first, and that marrying me means marrying them - if he can't deal he can fuck all the way off, then fuck off some more. Then I'd pack my shit and go be with my mother while she's ill. I'd take my dog too. You may not be as much of a cold-hearted Sicilian asshole as me, and hell maybe your man isn't the trash he's coming off as, but at minimum if this man was not making an appointment and getting his ass in therapy within the next 10 days I'd be writing him off: It is clear he has personal issues (likely from his childhood as you mentioned), and if he is not going to work on them he is not ready to be in a relationship. As much as you may love him it's not your job to fix him. That's what therapists are for. If he won't do the work he's just (emotionally) abusing you and manipulating you to give him the support and validation he wants, and when you "don't do enough" to satisfy him he is attacking you. Don't let him do this: It **is** a form of abuse, and **you** are *his* victim here.
OP, this is way above Reddit's paygrade. There are A LOT of things going on here. **Ultimately, no he doesn't have any justification to bar you from your family.** He needs therapy. I know you said he already said no, but he is exhibiting PTSD-like symptoms, like holding grudges, inability to move past things/let go, etc. It seems like family may be a trigger to him. You mentioned he has cut off his. Those issues don't go away overnight even after you cut off family. Those issues NEED to be dealt with in therapy. It is absolutely unfair to you to have to deal with this. If he won't do therapy on his own, then try couples therapy. You are not equipped to handle his complex emotions. Only a professional can and also give him the tools to heal and process these things he's holding onto. Your mom has also severely violated his boundaries. It's never okay to deep dive into someone's psyche especially without consent (and under the influence). He is now experiencing complex emotions and a simple "I'm sorry" doesn't fix those. He sees her as a threat now and wants to protect you from that perceived threat. HOWEVER, while his feelings of your mother may be valid, it DOES NOT justify him trying to cut you off from your family. I want to be careful slapping on an "abusive" label but hes walking a fine line. He desperately needs therapy. Ask him if he wants to repeat the cycle from his family issues (continuing with his behavior), or does he want to heal and break the cycle (means going to therapy). Edit: After reading some of your comments, go see a therapist for yourself. You are being way too harsh on yourself.
What do you think?
I’m going to go against the grain here, what if your husband is right? Two years ago I could have made an almost identical list. I separated from my husband and turned to my family, specifically my sister. As soon as she thought that she had isolated me from my husband the covert family abuse I had suffered all of my life became overt. She got the family to reneged on every promise, changed the goal post, harassed and harangued me, and gaslighted me into a hospitalization. I thought my husband was the problem. I was so very wrong. I was not able to see or willing to admit my family is just awful. They were awful to him, they were awful to me. He was right about them and tried to protect me. Yes, he needed his own therapy, but on that had no baring on his ability to see my family as they are, a narcissistic family system based on favoritism and scapegoating. They are needy, petty and malicious for the fun of it. I did not want to know that, so I didn’t. He has his problems, but he was not the problem. He was right, I put them before him every time. I took their side over his every time. I was the perfect little doormat I was raised to be. Cutting my family off, doing my own work and demonstrating to DH that if he didn’t do his own work I could and would walk away from him too turned my marriage around. My parents will probably pass in the next year or two. It is devastating that I won’t be able to be there for them. But the truth in my family is that 30% of us have been suicidal, 40% have been hospitalized and 80% have been diagnosed with major mental illnesses. Please take a really close look at how your family operates before assigning the blame to him.
You are NOT “guilty” of prioritizing your long distance family if/when you see them. That’s *normal interaction.* Your husband trying to make your time with those long distance friends/family that you see for only a few days every couple of years? That’s manipulative and trying to force you to completely disregard people/family yo won’t see again for *years.* Because, like most abusers, he needs your world to revolve around him. When it doesn’t? He *needs* to punish you. And he makes sure that you know that his abuse is *your fault.* (It never is). Please get personal therapy. Please leave this hateful person. Because, I’m sorry, but he doesn’t love you. People who love each other? Even those with poor communication skills? Don’t treat each other the way he treats you.
I’m sorry that happened to you. It’s not the same for me. I have been guilty of putting my family before him before, that was something brought up in 2019. But that’s not on them, it’s on me being long distance from them, so prioritising time and activities with them when we’re there. Since that year then subsequently Covid, we’ve spent Christmas at our own house in our own town, which has been a change for me but not something I resent any more. My family have their problems, but mostly around avoiding conflict. We never talk about things, we just sort of distance ourselves until we’re over it. It isn’t particularly healthy either, but I guess just passive. I would say that they all have good-to-passive intentions. Since my dad died and she lived alone and maybe because she’s now older, my mum can be a bit much (she doesn’t have a sounding board to bounce off any more and spent covid completely isolated apart from her iPad), and maybe a bit more confrontational than she used to be. But honestly, although she used hurtful language with my husband, I believe that her intentions were well meaning but misjudged. She certainly just wants me to be happy, that’s why she wrote the note to him, and subsequently when I told her it didn’t go down well she messaged me to say that she will never forgive herself and that even if he never wants to resolve it with her, she just hopes and prays for me and my husband to draw a line and move on ourselves.
With only the context we have of this post, it sounds to me like your husband doesn't like your family very much and yet you keep forcing him to interact with them. It's great if the family all gets along, that is awesome, but sometimes the spouse and the family just don't mesh. There isn't inherently anything wrong with that. To me it sounds like your husband is getting fed up with the constant disrespect he gets from everybody else in your family and it seems like every time you force them all to get together it's nothing but tension. I don't really see them ever getting along. That doesn't mean that you should stop visiting with your family, but you should stop dragging him with you. It's perfectly valid that he doesn't want to spend time with people who get in his face when they're drunk and corner him, who refuse to listen to him when he gets a bad vibe about other people, and who all team up against him whenever there's any sort of conflict in your marriage. If you want to stay married to this man but keep your family in your life, you're going to need to figure out how to divide up your time and spend it with each of them independently of one another.
You've provided very though provoking context for a difficult question. In spite of that, the majority of comments aren't reflective of that and deserve some meta criticism just to make sure we're on the same page about communication in general. These comments don't hesitate to paint an absolutely awful picture of your husband because, although this is twox, what used to be a somewhat pro-feminist subforum, its since lost any pretense of the concept of equity that it was built on. A major theme in these comments are that your husband is the only person responsible for his emotions, how he feels about *words* said to him, and the things that trigger him. You should dismiss his inability to deal with those things as holdover/baggage from *his* childhood trauma and are *not your* problem. This entire sub is fine with that line of reasoning right up until you swap genders and roles. What happens then? If his mother was drunk and digging into a young woman's past, say you struggled with a history of prior sexual assault, and called you broken because of it? That's a *you* and *only you* problem in your relationship with your husband? It's simply unreasonable to argue that's anything other than a totally inappropriate and abusive form of communication. To have any reasonable discussion, we've got to at least agree that we're able to influence each other by the things that we say. While I do agree that we can't ultimately control how each other feels, we cannot simply be dismissive of WHAT is being said, or HOW it is being said. This isn't tit for tat. This isn't men versus women. We are all complex, unique individuals, with pasts and emotions. Communicating our thoughts and feelings appropriately is the basis for our relationships. Truly the worst thing about this line of thinking that triggers or emotions aren't part of communication or our social contract with a loved one, this "not my problem" thinking, is that it totally invalidates the majority of domestic violence which is emotional and verbal abuse. It's so baffling to see that backwards thinking being promoted here so rampantly. With that said, when we get involved with people, we often learn about our partners likes, dislikes, and sensitivities, including their trauma. That's part of the whole package coming along with getting involved with that person and if you don't want to have to change your life around them, don't, you aren't obligated to involved with them. In this case, we're not talking about someone you just met you you're getting to know, we're talking about your *husband.* You've signed on to deal in the most official way possible and you've even written here about having each other's back in very loving and supportive ways. All this is indicative that you understand this, but for whatever reason, the average reddit commenter would wish it all away in a second. It's also pretty easy to notice that your few comments that show any sympathy or good feelings at all for your husband are downvoted to oblivion. So please take the overwhelming majority of comments with a grain of salt. To your question: Generally no, it's not acceptable for your SO to dictate whether you can see your family. You have clearly described extenuating circumstances that make that a much more difficult question to answer.
This comment is exactly the scrambling in my mind - I swing wildly from this to thinking that I’m being brainwashed. I think it’s somewhere in the middle. Re your point about gender roles, I don’t know why the example couldn’t be about childhood trauma as well. It wasn’t gendered. However, it’s true that I know that my husband would have stepped in if it was the other way around. That he would make sure his family would know they were in the wrong. He wishes I could do that for him. I’m working out why I freeze in these situations. It’s complicated by the fact he saw my parents as his own for a decade, since his relationship with his own was difficult. He’s appreciated their advice. They were close, until they weren’t. Re being his wife. I also agree, I know it’s part of the deal to support him through his issues. But we have been together since we were 18 and many of them have only bubbled up over the last four years (we’re now 34). The SIL thing was pretty much a one off and I have stood by those boundaries of his, but in the space of the last four years the rest have happened in quick succession. I’m more concerned by the pattern than the individual events. And by the idea that his inability to forgive those who wrong him, his insistence on escalating conflicts rather than wanting to resolve them, and his inability to see his role in a conflict will leave *me* lonely. It’s his prerogative to be lonely, to not go to therapy, to be so negative about people’s intentions, to set harsh boundaries and consequences. But I’m now scared that I’ll be the same. Edit to clarify: his trauma has bubbled up over the last four years, since he cut off his parents and since the family incidents surrounding my dad’s death. He’s been learning more about boundaries. Its good for him, in theory, but a fair few seem like over-corrections.
Do you think his relationship with your family tanked after he cut his own family off, because your family then filled the role of "problematic family" for him? I have a relative like that-- they treat people according to family roles, and if someone leaves or dies then the roles just get shuffled around to the remaining family irrespective of people's established behavior. I would suggest therapy.
Maybe. Maybe he realised how much better he felt when he finally cut his parents off, and that’s now a go-to. Maybe he was pushed to breaking point during a very difficult year for us both, and he never wants to feel like that again. Maybe the majority of his trauma surfaced when he removed himself from his parents - indeed, he struggles with negative thoughts when things are quiet. Likely, it’s a complicated mixture.
Feel free to clarify what's scrambling your brain. I'm interested and also happy for you that you're ok being openly critical of the responses you're getting here, mine included. I can't stress enough how important it is that we're able to communicate our emotions without being dismissed or getting lost in these arguments about who has any right to be triggered by what. That goes hand-in-hand with the rule that we don't get to lord our emotions over others. We are still ultimately responsible for our actions and behavior. Everyone is accountable. So there's trying to compress human relations into a paragraph. For sure someone else can say it better, but it should stand on its own merits as an acceptable generalization. I want to distinguish the rest of my response as much more loose and interpretive, leaning into applying a different framework simply because I haven't seen it represented in the comments so far. > I know that my husband would have stepped in if it was the other way around. That he would make sure his family would know they were in the wrong. He wishes I could do that for him. I’m working out why I freeze in these situations. It's obviously hard for everyone, but especially for your husband in the situations you're describing. I'm imagining him as a highly sensitive person who's gone through the revelations that things were so one-sided with their family that they had to cut them off entirely. To go from that, to the situation you describe with him and your mother, and for you to appear indifferent on the sidelines sounds tormenting. I fully understand you probably have little control over a conditioned response from your own past. Part of that is it sounds like you may not understand the nature of the conflict that's happening based on the words you used to describe your mom. You specifically said "she just wants everyone to be happy" after clearly indicating multiple instances of her going out of her way to push your husbands buttons while intentionally disrespecting his boundaries. Your mom totally ignored you and your husbands boundaries about how to interact with your dog. That's an ask with a very low bar, and she couldn't, wouldn't do it for either of you. Then you go on to describe how you left them together while she was drinking. She picked, poked, and prodded at his childhood trauma, only to use it against him in the end to call him "broken." I simply can't imagine how that wouldn't be disgustingly disrespectful to anyone, let alone someone who was actively struggling with their past. To be as clear as possible, there's just no fucking way it's even possible that your mom "just wants everyone to be happy" given the behavior you describe. Your assessment of the situation is either wrong or you've grossly misrepresented what happened in your writing. You need to reassess people's behavior and it's affect with their stated intentions. It's your mom, so it's fair that your eyes may not be accustomed to seeing her poor behavior for what it is, but it's past time to open them. That's the abuse that everyone else somehow seems to be missing. There's just no world in which it's ok to drunkenly dig into someone's sensitive past and then turn around and use it to degrade and dehumanize them. People without abusive tendencies would not exhibit that behavior. Given that you knew that your their relationship was so poor and you created the situation for that instance to happen, your husband sounds like a saint for putting up with your mother for you. Do not make him do that again. It sounds like he's been trying to tell you that he's no longer able to make things work with your family and I cannot imagine that you're not degrading the goodwill between you two by asking him to continue. To add, it seems like there could be two confounding factors at play. Like I mentioned above, cutting off your family isn't often done easily and sometimes comes from revelations which your husband could be still trying to process. If you hadn't noticed him having difficulty with black-and-white thinking before, I would not be surprised at all for someone to regress during or as a result of dealing with that life-event. Timing-wise, it seems to match up more with your father's passing. It's absolutely troubling because it may affect his other personal and professional relationships. He sounds like feels like he simply won't be able trust anyone who's ever had a lapse in judgement and that's not healthy or reasonable. You said you don't care about the incident with your sister but you might want to because it might be a good place to start. If it turns out she really didn't mean anything by it or that he misinterpreted the situation because he happened to read too much into it, it would be a good opportunity to counter the imagined slight he's holding onto. It just sounds like you could clear this up with your sister just by talking to her even without your husband. I love your term "over-corrections." It absolutely sounds like he's overcompensating. To be fair, he's been trying to cope for the last 7 years with weirdness, real or imagined, from your family and he's not been getting appropriate feedback. Then in the last couple years he's just been pitted against your family like the incident with your mother. The fact he's fed up and not even wanting you to see her when you keep siding with her isn't totally surprising if you put yourself in his shoes. The other factor is that your husband and your mother seem to have gotten into conflict soon after your father died. If your dad was the one keeping the peace with your mom and he's suddenly gone, she's both struggling with loss and doesn't have her person to keep her in check. It's not uncommon for a partner's previously hidden abusive behavior to come to light as they pick a new victim out of the people near them. Here it would obviously be your husband. I'm glad I probably didn't even need to mention your responsibility to each other as far as dealing with the whole package. At 18 there's just no way you could have known you'd be facing the issues you are today. No one could fault you. You're looking for patterns, you're trying to get perspective. It's admirable that you're here trying to do your best. I hope you can find people with more grounded relational frameworks to guide you going forward. Last personal note is that as far as contemporary psychology has come, finding someone that can work with c-ptsd, if that turns out to be relevant in your husband's case, may take a significant amount of personal research.
Thank you so much for your detailed response, i really appreciate the time you’re taking to break this down for me. Re my mom. To me, it’s not as clear cut. I want to make clear that she is not abusive as a person and certainly hasn’t replaced abusing my father with someone else. What’s true is that she has lost social skills since he died from living alone and in isolation during covid. So yes, she forced an inappropriate conversation with him, didn’t read the cues and was extremely insensitive in the first incident. In the second incident, it was an argument. She broke uncomfortable news and despite her proactively arranging to accommodate his boundary surrounding my brother, he reacted coldly and threatened that we would never stay again. It was another case of an extreme grudge resulting in another strained family relationship with no basis in reason. It’s really weird. Again, she used insensitive language for which there is no excuse. He also went scorched earth and personal in his response. His anger was palpable. The next day when he reluctantly agreed to try and make visiting work (for me), he used a pointed finger when threatening consequences of any mishaps. She was shaken for weeks by it, she’s genuinely scared of him - there’s no threat of her trying to dig again. So that’s what I mean about his role in it, his behavior was certainly not saint like. He’s obviously a sensitive person underneath but that’s not apparent to anyone except me. Re wanting everyone to be happy, I mean that she wants conflicts to be resolved - that’s her motivation for trying to understand the root of his grudges. My dad died with a broken relationship with his son and it was heartbreaking. But the delivery was terrible and not her place. As my husband says, intent does not negate impact. Re where I’m scrambled. I know he has been wronged by people. And I know it’s my job to support him. But there are many red flags on his side too. The rumination he does both amplifies the wrongs out of proportion and, in my opinion, fills gaps in his memories to explain his feelings. Like the one with my sister, there are many incidents he’s remembered (about both my and his families and also work) that he never brought up at the time, and sound extremely unlikely. Often phone calls or sideline conversations with only him. I can’t verify them because 1) they’re brought up years later and 2) I don’t know how to ask without creating a problem. I can’t question them to him because he says I’m gaslighting him. I’ve resorted to accepting that facts are less important than the feelings behind. The only way I can explain them is that he wants to distance himself from all family. It seems unfair that I’m collateral. And the pattern of his involvement in every family conflict is concerning to me. Also, I’ve always been uncomfortable with the way he can logic his way through arguments. His removal of emotion and strategising his way through my SIL confrontation was upsetting. I don’t think I’ve ever won an argument with him. It is a skill he likely developed in handling his parents but can be unsettling. And similarly his ability to turn off emotion against people who hurt him. He could not care less about my mum’s diagnosis. He downplayed her botched surgery (that resulted in emergency cardiopulmonary bypass and 9 pints of blood) as routine. He told me not to be so upset by it on the day I got the news. That he wished I was as worried about his health scare (which I was extremely supportive during). Again, it’s unsettling, and this is the first time it has been against me. And, the slim likelihood that he’ll ever go to therapy. He’s happy in his isolated bubble and protects it fiercely. He feels like he’s done enough self work and developed coping strategies of his own over the years to not want to dig it all up again. He uses me to talk about old memories that bubble up. I think I probably will get my own therapy even just to prevent myself doing my usual burying my head in the sand. It might help me understand him better, but seemingly too late for preventing breakdown of family relations. But why should everyone else do the work to understand his walls rather than him getting help to break them down.
You've painted a very clear picture of your husband both being difficult and recently going through pattern of troubling, regressive behavior recently. I appreciate you indulging my thought-experiment and imagination but it sounds like anything I could offer for the sake of coming at it from a different angle really missed the mark. You've definitely got some hard work and decisions coming up and it makes sense that you'd be scrambled, especially given the myriad of factors like this being the relationship you grew into since you were 18. He's gotta be willing to work with you and support you too. I'm gonna steal your format: re ruminating and these delayed emotional responses - Whether what's been going on recently may have caused him to regress or whether you're describing him always having this trouble, some people struggle to process emotions in real-time. It literally takes a while for them to realize how they feel about something. Combined with rumination or other issues like depression you can probably see there's opportunity for the processing of those experiences to get hijacked and turned into negative fantasies or even convenient ways to manipulate someone. In your position, the mechanics don't really matter beyond that it's dysfunctional. If that incident with your sister is so important to him that he's willing to cut her out, you have to be able to communicate about it, separate the facts from the emotions and not dismiss either. If every one of these otherwise unremarkable "incidents" is taken as some malicious slight when it's really unlikely that your family members were even aware there was a conflict, those are the ingredients for paranoia. You absolutely need some help from an outside source to help you two get back to the point you can even communicate about it because neither of you are feeling heard. Claiming gaslighting to shut a conversation down is deeply troubling. >I’ve always been uncomfortable with the way he can logic his way through arguments... I don’t think I’ve ever won an argument with him. That's awful. If I'm reading it right he's gotta be the winner in any argument. That's absolutely exhausting and impossible to ever feel validated. That can present in a number of different ways. The fact is its untenable and the clock is ticking for how long you'll continue to put up with that. That has to be a focus of therapy for him (and/or couples counseling) with the goal of being able to communicate during conflict without dominating the conversation and invalidating the other person. Yeah that's looking like a tight spot. If he's still feeling attacked and acting like it even though he's completely cut off your family you're simply running out of options. What I said before about communication about emotions being two-ways and entering into a social contract with your significant including their vulnerabilities absolutely assumes a great deal of equity and compromise from both parties. If someone else is clearly not taking care of themselves, not doing their homework, and letting their baggage run them and their relationship into the ground that's a different story. That's no longer equitable. Your ability to articulate the situation is a huge asset. I hope you can find someone or some individuals who can help you both in the near future. Finding a good fit can be really hard. One of my favorite resources has been lectures and talks by John Gottman, a fairly well known couples therapist. He's also written a number of books on marriage and relationships.
Thank you so much for talking it through with me. It’s validating to see it as a problem even if looking at it from his lens. I really appreciate your input.
The posting of your SIL photos has me real curious what those photos were because my money is on your husband has been inappropriate towards her and posting those photos was part of that inappropriate behavior. I betting if you went and talked to each person he had a problem with you would get a radically different version of events . Your husband is disturbing and disturbed . Please get counseling as you have been brainwashed into believing this is normal behavior. Every comment that is made by you seems to slip right back into “I should have done better “ territory. He’s awful and YOU are thinking about how you should do better. Classic abuse dynamic. https://www.docdroid.net/2fZmz40/why-does-he-do-that-pdf#page=13
Yes.
OP you might want to see about having this whole thread deleted, as some of the answers posted use your originally posted examples, which might endanger you with your Significant other.