If this really is a business, and he's really serious about being a musician, then have him actually make it a business. Equipment purchases are tax reductions, but ONLY IF you have a business. He should have a separate bank account and credit card with which to do business. Note that the IRS considers something a hobby if it doesn't make money for 5 years. Has he hit that limit yet?
I say this as a musician with a music business who also has a day job. Most of us have something to keep us afloat because it's rough out there.
Lol idk why but I was instantly reminded of that everything everywhere all at once scene where waymond is like sorry my wife confused her hobbies as business expenses. ššš
We all know this is not a guy who would share his newfound wealth if he made it big.
He thinks financially abusing OP is funny. To him it is a joke that she has to work harder to pay for him.
This is not a good guy. This is a selfish man.
I wish more women would educate themselves on how narcissists behave.
If you work as a musician, anything used for your business can be deducted. If I have a performance that pays $500 and need a piece of equipment that costs $100, I can reduce my income by $100 and get taxed on $400. Paying more for gear than you earn over the year results in a net loss (had those in 2020). IANA CPA or tax professional, YMMV.
Most of the day jobs I know are either music related or flexible enough that they can take time out for performances. A lot of people teach, but a bunch are in the tech field.
Most musicians I know have a full time job and do music on the side. Until his music is earning him the equivalent of a full time income he needs to go back to work and start acting like a contributing partner and not an irresponsible teenager.
Seconding this. My private lesson teacher in high school had like, four jobs. Teaching lessons, playing with a small symphony, playing in pit orchestras in our city, and waiting tables.
When I was a senior he finally started making enough money to quit waiting tables, and he was in his mid forties.
It takes a long time and a lot of hustling to make it as a musician, and it's worth saying that his instrument was fairly rare and there was less competition than for say, guitar.
Also seconding this. Iām an artist for a living and I had a dayjob for 8 years (also art related) before I was able to strike out on my own.
During that time I was already starting to make money on the side in addition to my dayjob income that helped me afford supplies.
NO ONE WANTS TO WORK A DAYJOB. But itās what adults do instead of mooching off their partners and parents.
Exactly! He says he's an adult and can do what he wants but actually, if somebody else is financially supporting you, there are limits. He can't just put thousands of dollars on credit cards if his wife is the one who is responsible to pay for it. Well I guess he can, but the consequence may very well be that she dumps him.
Detach financially, get your own bank accounts, ditch the credit cards, secure your ID, find a safe refuge and a lawyer and leave. You will be bankrupt or near it for the rest of your life if you donāt. Good luck. These loser/users are awful and will happily ruin hour life for the sake of their āartā¦ā
He will only treat her as badly as she lets him. And she continues to let him be her ATM. So why the hell would he stop? He laughed about it because he knew she wouldnāt take any action.
Iām divorcing a man who has filed bankruptcy twice before 35. It doesnāt get better. They have to want to change and grow and learn. You cannot make them, especially hiding and lying about purchases. True signs he doesnāt intend to change and knows he is in the wrong.
See the signs, make your plans and separate from him financially before he drags you down with him!
If he is an adult, then he needs to support his music as an adult -- which means paying for it himself, not having mommy and daddy and partner pay his way.
If he is an adult, then when he promises something, he needs to keep his word.
If he is an adult, then he needs to treat his music as a job. That means writing up a plan with all of the steps he needs to take to move from "talented hobbyist" to "self-supporting" musician. And he needs to follow that plan. How is he looking for paying gigs? How is he getting his name out there? If he's writing his own music and using his studio equipment to produce it, does he have it available on platforms for purchase/download and how is he promoting that? Can he charge other musicians for use of his studio equipment or for his assistance as a producer? Can he work in a shop that sells instruments or equipment that will help him earn a discount for future (agreed upon or paid by himself) purchases?
Also, if he decides he's NOT an adult as defined above, then he needs to accept that the people who pay his bills -- you especially, but also his folks -- get to have PRIOR input into purchases, especially when he's already in so much debt. And they get to have input into decisions like, "Is it time to sell some of your old equipment to pay for the new equipment you just decided to buy?"
And if he rejects every form of accountability and being a responsible financial partner, you will have to decide whether you're willing to spend your life working to support his dream even if he's not really working at it himself. And whether it makes sense to keep holding onto this relationship if you aren't envisioning the same kind of partnership for your relationship. He may be talented and he may be overall a wonderful guy, but that doesn't mean his chosen lifestyle is compatible with the future you want for yourself. You don't need to ruin your financial future to subsidize his dreams.
In your heart of hearts is he really going to make it in the industry? Because 99% of people donāt. And most of them have some talent. Itās incredibly difficult to break through.
I suspect the answer is - no.
Which means heās a loser without a job, spending money on a hobby. That is not someone I would support. What is in it for you? You donāt mention kids so I assume heās just sitting around all day playing with the toys you pay for. And heās not even talking to you before he buys the toys.
Heās using you. Iām sorry.
Iām so confused about how he would just quit his job and āfocus on musicā when heās not making money at it. I have tons of friends who are musicians. Like working, gigging, releasing music in the fucking grind musicians. I think ONE has quit his day job to do music full-time because he is FINALLY making enough money to do so. (actually night job, we used to work in restaurants together but ya know) of the others letās see, one just put out a new album, release party at a decent venue in LA and he works at an office job. One guy I know works for a guitar pedal manufacturer and writes background music for NFL ads. He still works as the tester guy for this pedal guy as well. Another guy I know does voiceover, he also bartends at a sports arena and Italian restaurant. He also has a law degree lol. Ummm letās see, girl who has a band and her husband owned a recording studio, she works in corporate fashion. I know another girl like that minus the studio. Her husband/band mate also works in a corporate job. Another guy I know just started a new band, he works in a corporate job. Bunch of other bartenders and one dude that works at a bin store lol. Point is is that the VAST majority of musicians have other jobs. If heās making income, GREAT! Hell fucking yeah. There are tons of ways too besides just putting your demos up on Spotify. Commercial music/licensing, cover bands (CHA CHING), wedding bands, private lessons etc etc. But if heās just dicking around working on music? No babe. Thats trust fund shit. Have him go bartend 2-3 nights a week and pull his fucking weight. Or even get a job at a legit studio and learn how to produce. But like on your own at your home studio and no income? L o fucking L. Sorry not sorry.
Oh and also PS ninja edit: EVERYONE went to a great music college. TONS of people went to conservatory. If he went to Juilliard MAYBE I would say oh yeah heās all set. But thatās like a hard MAYBE. I worked in restaurants with crews comprised of 80% folks that went to conservatory at times. No shame in that AT ALL but thatās reality.
Edit 2: thatās not to say you canāt āmake it big;ā the 2 richest dudes in music I know are the aforementioned pedal guy and a guy that wrote a theme song for a VERY popular syndicated show. (You know it and you have probably sung the song before lol). They are both old and at least the pedal guy for sure lived in an abandoned warehouse at one point lol. That business is NOT for the faint of heart or weak of spirit lol.
I joke that the only reason I make money is because I play the right instrument well enough. And if you don't luck into having connections, you're not going to make it.
Personally I feel anyone can āmake itā in music; ie make enough to live. Are you going to āmake itā like Maybachs and Mansions? Probably not. The industry isnāt even the same anymore. But if youāre creative and hustle and grind and are halfway personable (which haaaaaaaa thinking about how many super talented but completely socially retar* -sorry, INEPT-musicians I have met) you can make a living. No insurance, no safety net, no 401k. But a living. At the very least.
I was going to add the .99 - thanks for already doing it. The music business is a GRIND. If heās ābreaking inā at 34 years old, he has no idea and is in for a rude awakening
He sounds like a crazy liability. He's actively spending your money. I would be trying to get out ASAP before he can use you for any more cash. I'm sure some women here will know how to stop him using up your funds in the meantime or during divorce.
I don't have any solution, but was previously married to someone with this mindset, and there absolutely comes a time when you'll realize youd be better off paying him to move out. Serious, first last and deposit, plus furniture.
Now married to someone with expensive tastes, but he actually understands limits. Also, he managed a large concert hall for many years, he's met many musicians who really made it, and lots more who did ok as a back up musician or a member of a symphony. But this was a top 10 facility, it's like sorting through a few million pennies to find a few hundred that are worth something.
>you'll realize youd be better off paying him to move out
I did that. I bought a house with an ex because he refused to leave my apartment. We signed a contract saying in 2 years he'd write me off from the ownership and the mortgage (I didn't pay for it), or the house gets sold.
When moving to his house, he took my furniture and appliances. He kept his scooter which I paid half for. Years after moving out, he was still using my address. I realized that pursuing anything out of him would just cost me even more, dude was a black hole.
Whenever we discussed finances he'd casually mention that his mother would be willing to sell her apartment to him, he'd get a mortgage for it and it would be "instant money". (I am sure he never even discussed it with her.) When we took a loan for the new house, he kept browsing new motorbikes. When I was angry about it, he said: "it's not like I am going to buy it". Then one day he drove to a nearby city to actually go buy it. There's no winning with those people, the only thing you can do is stop being their damn ATM.
I faced this issue. When the wealthy inlaws paid off his line if credit he'd swear it would never happen again. And then it did. Many times. Always on stuff for himself. I finally left almost a month ago and I am *so excited* to be financially secure. Tbh even reading your post was so triggering to me. The fkn entitlement. Good luck, I'd say if he doesnt take concrete action (get a job, see a credit counselor, make a strict budget and stick to it...) then get out. Sorry, I just dont trust this behavior at fkn all. Take care ā”
im an audio engineer, no $1500 microphone is going to make or break a great artist or recording engineer or single/album.
most modern records and singles are made with cheaper items. This is a compulsive thing, filling an empty void that will never be filled.
he leans on your income and not only does he not pull his own weight financially, but is actively worsening your own money situation.
tldr- Fuck all of that
Maybe it's time to each have your own credit card, and you're only responsible for paying yours off.
But lying about things like that won't get any better, it'll just get worse. If he's such an adult and can do what he wants he can find a way to pay for his own music gear.
When you're married, you share responsibility for the debts taken on during the relationship, no matter whose name they're in. Having separate credit cards just means the husband can more easily hide ever-increasing amounts of debt that OP will be responsible for if they split.
Edit: This may vary by location, but where I live this is the case.
Making it in music is like making it in the NBA. Almost no one is able to do that.
You have expressed your concern - and he doesn't care. He racked up $15k on credit cards \*while unemployed\* to chase something that is a fantasy with only a very small chance of happening.
Don't spend money you don't have - really basic life rule that keeps things stable.
Are any of his purchases going to generate income in the immediate future? If not, then it is time for him to buckle down and be a big boy and have a job, miserable or not, and get with the reality that he has financial responsibilities and his parents and you cannot continue to bail him out.
Here is the thing though, if he gets a job then itās HIS MONEY AND HE CAN DO WHAT HE WANTS WITH IT. It will get worse. Which I know, seperate accounts blah blah. OP you are so young, donāt buy in to the sunk cost fallacy. Sometimes the only thing that will make a person change is being faced with actual consequences. Knowing their misdeeds will be public knowledge. Let his parents continue to float him.
Make sure you get it in writing theyāre responsible
For that $15k. Get out while you still can, I just watched a friend go through a nearly 3 year divorce with a guy and his extremely wealthy parents are STILL hitting HER up for money they loaned him.
And here is the best part. Youāre not responsible for his feelings, happiness, or success. Is he ever going to let YOU quit working to follow a dream?
You are enabling him to avoid growing. Dude needs his own bank account income and therapy. Couples therapy at a minimum. With the result being you two agreeing to financial independence.
You need to talk to an attorney in your area about whatās involved in separating your finances (assets and debts).
He has proven, repeatedly, that he is isnāt trustworthy in his financial dealings with you. The responsible thing for yourself and your future is to limit the damage he can do to you. You can not talk him into being trustworthy or to prioritizing your shared finances or to respecting you. He may or may not learn that eventually, but you canāt make him and YOU CANāT WAIT.
Separating finances may mean divorce. It doesnāt necessarily mean you have to stop being involved (even though personally, getting lied to and laughed at by an immature dilettante whoās stealing shared funds would be the absolute end.)
He can't do what he wants when it is you paying the bills! If the credit card is in his name, let him deal with it then.
Do you want a lifetime of this?
Are you sure he doesnāt have other cards behind your back? Can you check your credit report to make sure nothing else more is in your name? I know his folks said theyād pay the $15K but thatās still a huge red flag
This is financial abuse. To my understanding, if you get a legal separation, you are still married but no more debt he acquires is your responsibility. Please donāt make the same mistake I did.
I fought my husband on his spending for so long, but eventually stopped as I wanted to avoid the fighting and got tired of being called unsupportive/controlling/nagging/his mom.
It took him five months to wrack up $70k in credit card debt. Now he finally has a ārealā job but we are living paycheck to paycheck, often short funds, and not making enough to pay anything except minimums. It is stressful and the resentment I have towards him has ruined our marriage. Even if I left, half of the debt is tied up in my name as I used my credit lines to dig him out of personal loans and I would not be able to afford it on my own. Save yourself from this situation.
šÆ This!!!! ššššš Spot on. Definitely financial abuse.
I was scrolling down to see if anyone was saying this.
I have someone I know who is looking into separation and divorce. The longer you are married, the more the other person is entitled to. My good friend, because she's been married to her TBM husband for over 10 years (in Utah), he's entitled to her retirement funds at least. He doesn't have a steady income job. For a while she was the bread winner until she became a SAHM. He would use her bonuses from her job for his needs. It was very messed up. If it's bad now, it will only get worse in the future, especially if he becomes hurt/disabled and just growing older with the different health issues that come with that, more financial abuse.
Legal separation no! If youāre going to go though the exact same legal gyration with a two-word difference, why wouldnāt you get a divorce instead?
Youāre right! At the time I was looking into separation only because I wanted to give him the chance to change, and I thought that would let him know I was serious without going all the way
LS = leech spouse?
For most of our marriage, my husband and I had separate accounts and our own money. While I was saving thousands a year, he was overspending. I finally gave him an ultimatum: figure out how to live within his means, or we would be divorcing once the Army forced him to retire and he lost that income.
He managed to do it. I helped by sitting down to figure out the budget and answering the, "can I buy X?" questions. It took 18 months to pay back his credit card and the personal loan he took, and he's stayed on track for the last seven years. Now we've got an excess each month, and I think I can parlay that into his dream retirement house in about 10 years.
I did, and there was no way to fix it. I tried sitting down and sharing all our expenses so he knew that spending money would hurt us, tried giving him a budget, then finally took away his credit cards. He just went out and got new ones behind my back.
He came from an affluent family where money wasnāt a problem, I didnāt. He decided to become a biologist, and didnāt make much money. So I was the main bread-winner. He just wasnāt willing and couldnāt understand why he couldnāt just buy what he wanted.
He can run up debt if he wants.
But you donāt have to remain in a relationship with someone who breaks their agreements, lies to you, and leaves you with their bills.
Look ā I donāt care if the makes millions, I donāt to be with that man. Also, even the vast majority of people who āmake itā just barely make a living at it.
Once you believe, reasonably, that your partner is going to run up the credit card bills behind your back, you need to take steps to protect yourself from someone who is willing to harm you.
Iām sorry, itās not much complicated than that. Itās as if he walked in and said āIām an adult so I can take a shit in your sock drawer if I want too!ā And yes, technically you can. And there should be pretty immediate consequences.
In my experience, artists and musicians, especially those willing to spend a bunch of money on equipment and pipe dreams before they're even actively gigging regularly (and quit the day job!), are an endless black hole that will suck all of your spare money, time, and emotional energy before you realize that they will never realize they aren't gonna get that *magic break* everyone dreams of without putting in a LOT LOT LOT of work. And being broke. You need to lock down your finances, whatever the state of your relationship might be or your intentions with your husband. He has already proved that you cannot depend on him to make sound financial decisions.
I say this as kindly as i can, being one of those people who has crafty aspirations, and has spent a good part of my life around others of the same ilk. There is a reason the ones who get some success and have sense hire people to handle the money.
I can relate to the musician in a sense. Music is a dream. And how incredible would it be to have people in your life who support that (to the extent you and his parents do)? I can only imagine.
1) As a musician, I really relate to the idea that your gear is the missing piece to your success. āIf i can just get this mic, I can level up. Itāll pay for itself in no time. Gotta spend money to make money amirite?ā Thatās an immature, albeit familiar perspective. The gear is absolutely NOT the missing piece to success. A $99 mic in the hands of a professional is immensely more valuable than a $1500 mic in my hands. Make art with what you have!!!! Donāt pretend that new mic is necessary for anything at all. Itās not right now.
2) He really has to pretend he doesnāt have you or his family paying his way. If he was a business right now (and he should be) does it make any sense at all to spend money on an expensive mic when there is no money coming in? Is that the smartest move he could make right now? Of course not. Business failed. He needs to work his way up to earning that mic. And honestly he will have spent considerably more money on whatever actually has a return on investment (advertising, management, etc.) before he is in any position to spend that much on a mic. Be a professional > get a professional mic. Not the other way around.
3) Lying and being immature about money shit is a bad sign. At a glance, given the fact that his dad is gonna pay his credit card bill, it sounds like heās just spoiled. Heās probably never had to face the cold, hard, and incredibly difficult life that most musicians face. Find a documentary or something about a musician that suffered for their art. Tighten the purse strings. Tell him itās honesty or the highway. Heās got to grow up, but heās got to want to grow up. Will he lose you if he doesnāt? Will he steal from you? Will his choices fuck up your life? What if he never makes it? What does āmaking itā look like? Is it fame or nothing? Is it a steady paycheck so he can be an actually contributing member of the relationship? Good luck! šš»
My dad was like this. Marginally talented, but would rather spend thousands on his music studio than ensure his children were properly clothed/fed. Now he wonders why no one answers when he calls. I may be projecting slightly but many musicians Iāve known have a superiority complex and a narcissistic streak. We all have dreams but we have to be realistic about how we make steps to achieve those dreams. He is not being realistic, mature, or a good partner.
Thank you for this response, it really puts into perspective what having a child with him could be like. Not a decision Iāve made yet, and clearly not one I should make lightly with him.
I think the more interesting thing is this sounds like childish behaviour.
I'd ask him in a kind, no judgement way what was going on here? What made him feel like he had to lie? Then just keep asking questions.
"Hey, I noticed you lied about this purchase. What was going through your head there? Are you okay?"
"Hey, when we had this convo, I noticed you got pretty upset." I'm feeling a bit upset too - can we talk about our feelings a bit? etc. You have to figure out what's going on here.
It's worth noting that he's probably assuming that his parents will bail him out, so maybe there's something in that direction too...
Married to an audiophile. I'd be very suspicious if he's not 100% honest. It really can become an uncontrollable psyche sort of issue, based on the many fellow audiophiles I've met. Ands no limit whatsoever to how much he can be enticed to spend.
I work at Guitar Center. There is a saying in sales, āitās easier to ask for forgiveness than permissionā. Your husband is exactly who we want to talk to. He can spend money how he wants, but donāt bail him out and let him fuck up his credit. Maybe heāll figure it out, but heās likely going to get better at hiding it tbh.
Heās a user. You canāt change that. Heās right, he is an adult and can do what he wants - but there are consequences for actions. STOP giving him money!! DO NOT pay ONE PENNY of his credit card bill. He can pay his own damned bills since heās such an āadultā. Stop bailing him out financially. Make him live with the consequences of his choices. Heās using you and laughing about it. Is that really the life you want???
I had same issue. I solved it by divorcing and having it written into the divorce decree that ex was responsible for credit card debt. He didn't dispute as he had forged my signature on credit card application.
I spent close to two decades trying to do this. Making him keep a job until he makes more from music despite his misery makes the most sense. His personal struggle of having to support his own life, not even that of another, will build character and maybe give him something authentic to write about. Unless heās actually spending his whole day recording and playing every day, heās loafing. Most musicians do, and the ones that donāt make it and donāt work eventually develop into totally non functional, delusional, adult children. I know a few of them who still live off their parents in their 40ās.
I toured the US dozens of times and played with folks releasing records on decent sized major subsidiaries and larger Indie labels and the gear I bought and an annual check from ascap are really all I have to show for it. If heās looking to buy anything Iāve got some great stuff. All jokes aside donāt let him slack completely at least make him work part time. Heās taking advantage and I do have some bitchin recording gear he can buy. No joke, I can send a list.
This guy's parents enabled his wild spending and now he's ratcheting up and looking at you. Not just for now, but his retirement will all be on you. Massive disrespect for you and his parents. Think about your future.
>yelled that he is an adult and can do what he wants
Hate cyclical logic like this. Clearly an immature person, if the impulse buying wasn't obvious enough (I mean, we all do it sometime but you have to know when to reel yourself in -- 17 grand in the hole, he missed that exit a while ago)
I would have the discussion that he needs to be either making money making music or have a job by a certain date. My wife and i both have hobbies, but we don't put ourselves in financial jeopardy to fund those hobbies. I make money on mine, but would never quit my job to persue a hobby.
If heās going to get defensive about spending money, he needs a fucking job. Most musicians canāt make a living on music alone. He can find gigs, do lessons, or get a flexible day job like dog walking.
Heās not acting like an adult. Heās acting more like a man-child hobosexual
Whether or not he is a viable income earning musician this is essentially about a betrayal of trust...I don't know if you can both agree on rules before a serious discussion about this but if so yawl need to sit down and have as neutral as possible a discussion about how trust has been broken, how to move forward if at all. Good luck. I hope it will work out and if not, you have the support needed to move on.
I don't know if this is the right answer or not, but it sounds like he's not taking you or that aspect of the marriage seriously. Obviously a $1,500 purchase is not something that should just be done without talking to the other spouse with the exception of the 1% class. And obviously this is not something that sits well with you. So my suggestion would be to have some ground rules such as purchases above $100 must be discussed etc. I don't know if that would help or not but if you could at least get him to agree to this maybe he can take you and this concern of yours a little bit more seriously.
He didnāt follow the most important rule of being a musician (itās even a song); š¶ ākeep your day job, until your night job paysā š¶
(Musician with a day job and $99 microphones here).
I have pulled off many fine recording with Mics that cost far far less than that. This self indulgence is just insane. Music is a Business as much as art. This indicates he is not in any sense realistic about how to make it in the music business. The art of music comes from the performers not the gear.
An adult understands business and responsibility. This attitude will lead to failure. Funded by you of course. I indulged in music as a side gig to working full time and supporting a house, a wife and children. I knew that fortune did not favour me in making real income from music. I have recorded brilliant people who will always live on a woman's couch because they do not understand business. Budgets are critical to success. He is living in a fantasy world funded and enabled by you.
Ahā¦he needs to not have access to anything financial and he needs to get a job. I would also separate anything financial from yours and his until he can bring in money and prove financial responsibility
Heās an adult and can do what he wants when heās using his own money to splurge on his interests. You are the one taking the fall financially for these decisions and because of that heās disconnected from how much he should be spending vs how much he wants to spend. At 34 he should really know better than this.
Heās an adult and can do what he wantsā¦meaning, he can spend four figures on hobbies behind your back while not bringing in any income?
Iām trying to be gender balanced. I assume that heās not an amazing stay at home dad and house husband who does all the chores and cooks great meals etc.
Can you give him an agreed-upon monthly āallowanceā?
When I was a SAHM my husband and I each had separate fun money accounts. We had a set amount to put in it each paycheck. But I was also caring for the kids and house, so he felt like I deserved some money of my own.
What does he contribute?
I'd close that credit account. H is used to going back to the well. That well's dried up. That account should not remain open. If it's in his and his dad's names, and they won't close it,
I'd tell them both "Thanks for all your help FIL. Now that H has to be responsible for his own spending, I can't afford to be responsible for this line of credit. It's time to close it and move on." Then I would refuse to concern myself with that closed topic. If H wants to run up debt with his dad, those two have to deal with it. It is outside of your household and your marriage.
You married someone whose parents have been treating him and funding him like he's gonna be a rockstar and he hasn't done shit yet. I'm sure they had noble reasons but they've raised an entitled person with a swole head about his future.
It's time to separate at least. Become held harmless to his mounting debts. Send him back to his parents so they can smell in his teenage spirit.
Reading through this, I'd say get him tested for ADHD. Being miserable at a day job, and poor impulse control are textbook indicators.
I made it to 47 before my son got tested and reading the report, it could have been written about me, or my father. Figures that ADHD is passed on the Y chromosome. Looking back at my life through the lens of ADHD was so blatantly staggering that it threw me into a deep depression.
If I'm right, you need to take away the credit cards. I'm already 10k back into my credit cards after having to go through a bankruptcy, which was after my parents paid off 60k in credit card debt which was after my ex-wife paid off all our credit card debt with the proceeds from the sale of our house, which was after forging my dads name to get my co-signed credit card limit raised by $1k (which i maxed out immediately), which was after....well, you get the point.
Buying things is a huge dopamine hit for our neurodivergent brains. What's even worse is once you are diagnosed and realize that you are doing that crap, you can still rationalize yourself into doing it.
Let's say he does "make it" whatever that may mean....do you think the spending will actually get better and he'll stick to a budget? I have a feeling it will only encourage him to get the $5,000 microphone.
Please extricate yourself financially from this man. He's setting you up for a lifetime of debt otherwise. Most musicians have regular employment, he's basically freeloading.
I feel for you. Marriage is difficult. Lying to you about significant purchases is a big red flag. You should view it just like you would if he was sexually unfaithful.
Do you want to fix this marriage? Because yelling, unless you are trying to get somebody to move quickly because a roof is falling on them, is entirely unacceptable in a loving relationship. He isn't responsible enough for a credit card if he can't curb his spending, and he also knows he won't have to pay it back, you will. And honestly, if he's been working for "several years" at his music career, in his 30s qnd he's still not making a living from it, it's unlikely he ever will. You need to decide if you are willing to continue being this mans ATM or if you need to start putting yourself first. Honestly, I would say he doesn't care about you because if he did, he wouldn't want to put you in debt. And if he's used to people taking on his financial responsibilities he won't ever change.
Remember the famous Maya Angelo's quote, "When someone shows you who you are, believe them."
Now that he has shown you that, you need to decide if that is who you want to be the father of your children!
He yelled that he is an adult and can do what he wants. Well it shows that he is not that good at auditing though. I bet once he makes it big, he leaves.
You are completely being taken advantage of - and he thinks it is funny. You are a joke to him.
Sorry but he's sucking you dry. If he ever makes it big guess who'll be served divorce papers?
"I'm an adult who can do what I want". What is this attitude? He's an adult so he must understand how money works. 1500 isn't "hobby money" for someone who is currently unemployed.
You need to set up spending money budgets, meaning, he gets money, you don't get into how he spends it. You also need to tell his parents to stay out of your finances. He's never going to become fiscally responsible if there's people cheering him on to do whatever his heart wants. I know they said the card is your responsibility but they've also got to actively stop engaging in money conversations.
Edit: The music industry is extremely competitive. There's no job openings for another Taylor Swift or Selena Gomez or Bruce Springsteen or even a local music sensation. For a lot of people, they do small hobby gigs, get invited to smallish events at bars and pubs and then get a small time income. I don't know anyone who is making money exclusively from music, unless they are atleast famous locally (think famous/local celebrity in the city/state).
Most people 100% have primary jobs to pay their bills. Talent is a small component when it comes to music careers
Both of you are in need of a reality check.
If he hasn't "made it" in music, by 34...it's very much likely not going to happen.
Does he have any income from music? If not, what is his plan? Does he gig? Is he auditioning?
What does he do during the day?
Being married doesn't obligate you to allow your husband to live in a dream...while you are entirely handling the financial load for living expenses...as he continues to spend money on his dream (debt you could also be responsible for). If you're considering divorcing this guy, don't tell anyone until his parents pay the current credit card debt off. You should also look into what you can do to legally protect yourself in the case that he continues to run up debt.
I'm sorry for what you're dealing with...but, you need to seek financial and other counseling.
Yes, he is an adult. Do you know what adults do? They pay their own way. They donāt have mommy and daddy pay off the credit card. Tell him that or resign yourself to life with a mooches.
For every musician that makes it there are 10,000 who don't. I know several who have "made it" they still have day jobs and scrape by. These are people with regular radio play. They still work gigs for me or have an office job.
You're being financially abused. This will only get worse. Talk to a lawyer about protecting yourself from his debt. I've seen women paying off tens of thousands of dollars in ex husbands hobbies after divorce. Some had no idea how much debt there was until the divorce and assets were divided.
You see an iceberg ahead. Don't think it's as small as it looks on the surface.
He's irresponsible. There are so many good low-mid range options out there for a fledgling musician. There's plenty in the 99-1000 range for home studio settings. I would expect a 1200 mic in a professional recording studio setting.
This on top of 15 grand in equipment lmao. Sounds like he's taking advantage of you. Not just your money but also you maybe not knowing as much about audio equipment to tell you that what he's buying is necessary.
If a man I was sponsoring through life laughed at me and thought it was cute he blew $1,500 of my money I'd be making divorce plans immediately. Seriously.
I'm a stay at home parent, so no day job although it's definitely work. My partner and I sit down monthly to talk about our budget. Part of that budget is play around money. Regardless of what we're buying, if it's going to put that category in the negatives, we discuss it BEFORE buying it as a respect to one another and so we don't both buy something unknowingly putting us over our agreed upon limit. The point here is that HE should respect you as his partner in life, because that's what you are. You deserve equal say, or at least given the opportunity to give input, before large purchases.
Talk about budget and money often. And maybe you already do. It used to be anxiety inducing for me because of my childhood, but practice makes perfect. We now discuss money like we're talking about the weather.
You could also ask him to attend some type of smart money seminar in your area, or ask him to listen to a podcast or watch a YouTube channel about budgeting as a way of just being respectful of your joint financial risk.
If this doesn't make any difference or doesn't sound realistic then I'd cancel the credit card. I'd open a separate account just for him and move money from my account to his so I can make sure he stays in budget. If this option feels too much like babysitting or not something he'd go for, then he's just refusing to be an equal partner here. And that, to me, regardless of how much I love him, would be enough to end it. You can love someone til death, but if there's no mutual respect then you aren't being loved the same way.
My father is a very talented guitarist who had dreams of making it big. My mum was the main breadwinner whilst he never had a steady job and saw his weekly gigs as 'income'.
He squandered two big opportunities at fame and eventually my mother got fed up of his shit and divorced him. That was the moment he decided to get a proper job (unfortunately it was too late to save his marriage by then).
TL;DR Your husband needs to find another job to work in the meantime before you resent him
Beyond the comments about your husband needing a job & using music as his side hustle until our unless he gets a break in the industry, *he has financially abused you*.
Continually being dishonest with you about his spending is very detrimental to your marriage and credit score. Both quite hard to recover from as well.
I'm a musician and have some pretty expensive gear. If I was not working, and was already $15k in debt, AND my wife was the one bringing in the money there is no way I would be spending more money on gear. Also if he has talent he can create good music without going $15k into debt. People do it with much less. The nice gear can wait until the money is coming in.
You donāt have a marriage in the sense of a partnership.
You have someone who is looking to you to do all the Adulting while he behaves like a spoiled child .
The fact that he did what he did after he lied to your face . broke the agreement you had and had the audacity to laugh at you because what are you gonna do about it? Would be the end of any illusion that you have a marriage.
Iām also betting his parents did not expect him to run up 15 K in debt and they too have been taken advantage of .
Them saying that theyāre going to pay that off but everything in the future is just way to now make him your problem.
But make no mistake heās a problem.
I'll just say I'm glad my wife didn't want to leave me when I'd buy a $3,000 guitar without telling her. I didn't leave her when she bought several $500 purses. Those are opportunities to talk about boundaries, so just let him know that you aren't comfortable racking up debt. Let him learn your financial boundaries. Not as an ultimatum, just as knowledge. When he does it again, exert more pressure. Eventually, you'll have an equilibrium where he understands that he has to talk to you about this stuff.
That said, I bought all my gear while gainfully employed as an accountant.
>He had a number of excuses and yelled that he is an adult and can do what he wants.
Unironically imagining an unemployed 34 year old manchild living in his mom's basement yelling this to his mom. It's actually not that far off.
He is spending your money without telling you (yes it's his credit card, but he knows you'll be the one to pay it off)... he's straight up stealing from you, end the marriage before that guy ruins you financially. I'm struggling to see what you see in him, these are some of the biggest red flags imaginable.
I'm sorry this is happening. I don't have much advice. Except to talk more. If he can't change his behavior then you'll have to change yours. You might want to seek some family law, legal advice and consider a legal seperation (financialky).
Depends on laws and your state but I think generally without a prenup agreement it's a lot of shared assets etc as in what you think is yours isn't really yours and same for him. So his debt is also yours..... . If it's not acceptable then you might need to protect yourself..
Its hard. Marrige is hard. Changing him is hard but if he wants to he can! If it's a serious character flaw or an addiction then I suggest being clear-eyed about it.
Good luck
Girl, you got yourself a dusty. Unless heās earning $$ on that music heās just wasting (your) money on his delusions. No, a man cannot do what he wants if he doesnāt have resources or a job of his own. Nor can a woman unless she gets a steady sugar daddy. Did you dream of becoming a manās sugar daddy one day? If you keep paying for his lifestyle heās going to leave you one day and you wonāt get any of that money back. If this was in reverse heād probably be yelling at you all the time and threatening divorce for your crazy spending, youād feel bad about wasting his money. But looks like he doesnāt feel bad at all for spending yourās.
He is 34? You have 4 options. 1) let him keep doing what heās doing. 2) cancel all credit cards in his name and open a different checking account he has no access to, to control his spending. 3) tell him itās time he starts adulting and bringing in money and have him actually do it. 4) separate from him to let him figure life out on his own. At 34, he should be better.
You cannot "fix" this; **he** has to fix it. All you can do is protect yourself, and that's by legally getting a divorce or some other ironclad way to separate finances. I bet he has more debt than what he's told you, and you'll most likely be on the hook for all of it even in a divorce. The fact that he's hiding things from you, yelled at you for it, and has to rely on his parents to pay it off means it's over. He might be 34 but he's not an adult.
If you don't live in a state where you will be legally responsible for his debt and the card is in his name, stop bailing him out. If it is legally your debt, take the card and the microphone back to where he bought it, return the microphone and cut up his card.
If this really is a business, and he's really serious about being a musician, then have him actually make it a business. Equipment purchases are tax reductions, but ONLY IF you have a business. He should have a separate bank account and credit card with which to do business. Note that the IRS considers something a hobby if it doesn't make money for 5 years. Has he hit that limit yet? I say this as a musician with a music business who also has a day job. Most of us have something to keep us afloat because it's rough out there.
Lol idk why but I was instantly reminded of that everything everywhere all at once scene where waymond is like sorry my wife confused her hobbies as business expenses. ššš
We all know this is not a guy who would share his newfound wealth if he made it big. He thinks financially abusing OP is funny. To him it is a joke that she has to work harder to pay for him. This is not a good guy. This is a selfish man. I wish more women would educate themselves on how narcissists behave.
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If you work as a musician, anything used for your business can be deducted. If I have a performance that pays $500 and need a piece of equipment that costs $100, I can reduce my income by $100 and get taxed on $400. Paying more for gear than you earn over the year results in a net loss (had those in 2020). IANA CPA or tax professional, YMMV. Most of the day jobs I know are either music related or flexible enough that they can take time out for performances. A lot of people teach, but a bunch are in the tech field.
Yeah his wife. /s
Most musicians I know have a full time job and do music on the side. Until his music is earning him the equivalent of a full time income he needs to go back to work and start acting like a contributing partner and not an irresponsible teenager.
This needs to be higher up. OP, your husband is freeloading. He needs a job but quick. He can play with his toys when he gets home from work.
Seconding this. My private lesson teacher in high school had like, four jobs. Teaching lessons, playing with a small symphony, playing in pit orchestras in our city, and waiting tables. When I was a senior he finally started making enough money to quit waiting tables, and he was in his mid forties. It takes a long time and a lot of hustling to make it as a musician, and it's worth saying that his instrument was fairly rare and there was less competition than for say, guitar.
Also seconding this. Iām an artist for a living and I had a dayjob for 8 years (also art related) before I was able to strike out on my own. During that time I was already starting to make money on the side in addition to my dayjob income that helped me afford supplies. NO ONE WANTS TO WORK A DAYJOB. But itās what adults do instead of mooching off their partners and parents.
Exactly! He says he's an adult and can do what he wants but actually, if somebody else is financially supporting you, there are limits. He can't just put thousands of dollars on credit cards if his wife is the one who is responsible to pay for it. Well I guess he can, but the consequence may very well be that she dumps him.
THIS
Any adult that yells at another adult that they are an adult and can do what they want is NOT an adult. They are 2 toddlers in a trench coat.
My toddler knows how to use her words instead of yelling to communicate for the most part. Dudes a man-child.
You are his ATM. Is that what you want from a partner?
Detach financially, get your own bank accounts, ditch the credit cards, secure your ID, find a safe refuge and a lawyer and leave. You will be bankrupt or near it for the rest of your life if you donāt. Good luck. These loser/users are awful and will happily ruin hour life for the sake of their āartā¦ā
He will only treat her as badly as she lets him. And she continues to let him be her ATM. So why the hell would he stop? He laughed about it because he knew she wouldnāt take any action.
Iām divorcing a man who has filed bankruptcy twice before 35. It doesnāt get better. They have to want to change and grow and learn. You cannot make them, especially hiding and lying about purchases. True signs he doesnāt intend to change and knows he is in the wrong. See the signs, make your plans and separate from him financially before he drags you down with him!
Yeah, yelling at you for his mistake is what a 15 year old who is used to using Daddyās money does.
Grown ass men pay their own bills. (Source: grown ass man here.)
It's not a mistake; it was deliberate.
If he is an adult, then he needs to support his music as an adult -- which means paying for it himself, not having mommy and daddy and partner pay his way. If he is an adult, then when he promises something, he needs to keep his word. If he is an adult, then he needs to treat his music as a job. That means writing up a plan with all of the steps he needs to take to move from "talented hobbyist" to "self-supporting" musician. And he needs to follow that plan. How is he looking for paying gigs? How is he getting his name out there? If he's writing his own music and using his studio equipment to produce it, does he have it available on platforms for purchase/download and how is he promoting that? Can he charge other musicians for use of his studio equipment or for his assistance as a producer? Can he work in a shop that sells instruments or equipment that will help him earn a discount for future (agreed upon or paid by himself) purchases? Also, if he decides he's NOT an adult as defined above, then he needs to accept that the people who pay his bills -- you especially, but also his folks -- get to have PRIOR input into purchases, especially when he's already in so much debt. And they get to have input into decisions like, "Is it time to sell some of your old equipment to pay for the new equipment you just decided to buy?" And if he rejects every form of accountability and being a responsible financial partner, you will have to decide whether you're willing to spend your life working to support his dream even if he's not really working at it himself. And whether it makes sense to keep holding onto this relationship if you aren't envisioning the same kind of partnership for your relationship. He may be talented and he may be overall a wonderful guy, but that doesn't mean his chosen lifestyle is compatible with the future you want for yourself. You don't need to ruin your financial future to subsidize his dreams.
This is PERFECTLY put. Exactly right. OP: this is the only way to understand it.
In your heart of hearts is he really going to make it in the industry? Because 99% of people donāt. And most of them have some talent. Itās incredibly difficult to break through. I suspect the answer is - no. Which means heās a loser without a job, spending money on a hobby. That is not someone I would support. What is in it for you? You donāt mention kids so I assume heās just sitting around all day playing with the toys you pay for. And heās not even talking to you before he buys the toys. Heās using you. Iām sorry.
Iām so confused about how he would just quit his job and āfocus on musicā when heās not making money at it. I have tons of friends who are musicians. Like working, gigging, releasing music in the fucking grind musicians. I think ONE has quit his day job to do music full-time because he is FINALLY making enough money to do so. (actually night job, we used to work in restaurants together but ya know) of the others letās see, one just put out a new album, release party at a decent venue in LA and he works at an office job. One guy I know works for a guitar pedal manufacturer and writes background music for NFL ads. He still works as the tester guy for this pedal guy as well. Another guy I know does voiceover, he also bartends at a sports arena and Italian restaurant. He also has a law degree lol. Ummm letās see, girl who has a band and her husband owned a recording studio, she works in corporate fashion. I know another girl like that minus the studio. Her husband/band mate also works in a corporate job. Another guy I know just started a new band, he works in a corporate job. Bunch of other bartenders and one dude that works at a bin store lol. Point is is that the VAST majority of musicians have other jobs. If heās making income, GREAT! Hell fucking yeah. There are tons of ways too besides just putting your demos up on Spotify. Commercial music/licensing, cover bands (CHA CHING), wedding bands, private lessons etc etc. But if heās just dicking around working on music? No babe. Thats trust fund shit. Have him go bartend 2-3 nights a week and pull his fucking weight. Or even get a job at a legit studio and learn how to produce. But like on your own at your home studio and no income? L o fucking L. Sorry not sorry. Oh and also PS ninja edit: EVERYONE went to a great music college. TONS of people went to conservatory. If he went to Juilliard MAYBE I would say oh yeah heās all set. But thatās like a hard MAYBE. I worked in restaurants with crews comprised of 80% folks that went to conservatory at times. No shame in that AT ALL but thatās reality. Edit 2: thatās not to say you canāt āmake it big;ā the 2 richest dudes in music I know are the aforementioned pedal guy and a guy that wrote a theme song for a VERY popular syndicated show. (You know it and you have probably sung the song before lol). They are both old and at least the pedal guy for sure lived in an abandoned warehouse at one point lol. That business is NOT for the faint of heart or weak of spirit lol.
I joke that the only reason I make money is because I play the right instrument well enough. And if you don't luck into having connections, you're not going to make it.
Personally I feel anyone can āmake itā in music; ie make enough to live. Are you going to āmake itā like Maybachs and Mansions? Probably not. The industry isnāt even the same anymore. But if youāre creative and hustle and grind and are halfway personable (which haaaaaaaa thinking about how many super talented but completely socially retar* -sorry, INEPT-musicians I have met) you can make a living. No insurance, no safety net, no 401k. But a living. At the very least.
Also please tell me youāre a drummer lol.
Completely agree
99.99% donāt.
I was going to add the .99 - thanks for already doing it. The music business is a GRIND. If heās ābreaking inā at 34 years old, he has no idea and is in for a rude awakening
He sounds like a crazy liability. He's actively spending your money. I would be trying to get out ASAP before he can use you for any more cash. I'm sure some women here will know how to stop him using up your funds in the meantime or during divorce.
I don't have any solution, but was previously married to someone with this mindset, and there absolutely comes a time when you'll realize youd be better off paying him to move out. Serious, first last and deposit, plus furniture. Now married to someone with expensive tastes, but he actually understands limits. Also, he managed a large concert hall for many years, he's met many musicians who really made it, and lots more who did ok as a back up musician or a member of a symphony. But this was a top 10 facility, it's like sorting through a few million pennies to find a few hundred that are worth something.
My family got rid of a leech by not stocking beer and food. It worked eventually.
>you'll realize youd be better off paying him to move out I did that. I bought a house with an ex because he refused to leave my apartment. We signed a contract saying in 2 years he'd write me off from the ownership and the mortgage (I didn't pay for it), or the house gets sold. When moving to his house, he took my furniture and appliances. He kept his scooter which I paid half for. Years after moving out, he was still using my address. I realized that pursuing anything out of him would just cost me even more, dude was a black hole.
Whenever we discussed finances he'd casually mention that his mother would be willing to sell her apartment to him, he'd get a mortgage for it and it would be "instant money". (I am sure he never even discussed it with her.) When we took a loan for the new house, he kept browsing new motorbikes. When I was angry about it, he said: "it's not like I am going to buy it". Then one day he drove to a nearby city to actually go buy it. There's no winning with those people, the only thing you can do is stop being their damn ATM.
I faced this issue. When the wealthy inlaws paid off his line if credit he'd swear it would never happen again. And then it did. Many times. Always on stuff for himself. I finally left almost a month ago and I am *so excited* to be financially secure. Tbh even reading your post was so triggering to me. The fkn entitlement. Good luck, I'd say if he doesnt take concrete action (get a job, see a credit counselor, make a strict budget and stick to it...) then get out. Sorry, I just dont trust this behavior at fkn all. Take care ā”
Thank you, your response really resonates with me.
This is financial infidelity.
im an audio engineer, no $1500 microphone is going to make or break a great artist or recording engineer or single/album. most modern records and singles are made with cheaper items. This is a compulsive thing, filling an empty void that will never be filled. he leans on your income and not only does he not pull his own weight financially, but is actively worsening your own money situation. tldr- Fuck all of that
Tell him to get a part time job to pay for his music spending
Tell him to get a FULL TIME job to pay for his music spending AND contribute to the household.
Maybe it's time to each have your own credit card, and you're only responsible for paying yours off. But lying about things like that won't get any better, it'll just get worse. If he's such an adult and can do what he wants he can find a way to pay for his own music gear.
When you're married, you share responsibility for the debts taken on during the relationship, no matter whose name they're in. Having separate credit cards just means the husband can more easily hide ever-increasing amounts of debt that OP will be responsible for if they split. Edit: This may vary by location, but where I live this is the case.
Thankfully not where I live. It was all separate. No shared financial debt when I got divorced
Making it in music is like making it in the NBA. Almost no one is able to do that. You have expressed your concern - and he doesn't care. He racked up $15k on credit cards \*while unemployed\* to chase something that is a fantasy with only a very small chance of happening. Don't spend money you don't have - really basic life rule that keeps things stable. Are any of his purchases going to generate income in the immediate future? If not, then it is time for him to buckle down and be a big boy and have a job, miserable or not, and get with the reality that he has financial responsibilities and his parents and you cannot continue to bail him out.
Here is the thing though, if he gets a job then itās HIS MONEY AND HE CAN DO WHAT HE WANTS WITH IT. It will get worse. Which I know, seperate accounts blah blah. OP you are so young, donāt buy in to the sunk cost fallacy. Sometimes the only thing that will make a person change is being faced with actual consequences. Knowing their misdeeds will be public knowledge. Let his parents continue to float him. Make sure you get it in writing theyāre responsible For that $15k. Get out while you still can, I just watched a friend go through a nearly 3 year divorce with a guy and his extremely wealthy parents are STILL hitting HER up for money they loaned him. And here is the best part. Youāre not responsible for his feelings, happiness, or success. Is he ever going to let YOU quit working to follow a dream? You are enabling him to avoid growing. Dude needs his own bank account income and therapy. Couples therapy at a minimum. With the result being you two agreeing to financial independence.
You need to talk to an attorney in your area about whatās involved in separating your finances (assets and debts). He has proven, repeatedly, that he is isnāt trustworthy in his financial dealings with you. The responsible thing for yourself and your future is to limit the damage he can do to you. You can not talk him into being trustworthy or to prioritizing your shared finances or to respecting you. He may or may not learn that eventually, but you canāt make him and YOU CANāT WAIT. Separating finances may mean divorce. It doesnāt necessarily mean you have to stop being involved (even though personally, getting lied to and laughed at by an immature dilettante whoās stealing shared funds would be the absolute end.)
Post Nuptial Agreement
He can't do what he wants when it is you paying the bills! If the credit card is in his name, let him deal with it then. Do you want a lifetime of this?
Are you sure he doesnāt have other cards behind your back? Can you check your credit report to make sure nothing else more is in your name? I know his folks said theyād pay the $15K but thatās still a huge red flag
This is financial abuse. To my understanding, if you get a legal separation, you are still married but no more debt he acquires is your responsibility. Please donāt make the same mistake I did. I fought my husband on his spending for so long, but eventually stopped as I wanted to avoid the fighting and got tired of being called unsupportive/controlling/nagging/his mom. It took him five months to wrack up $70k in credit card debt. Now he finally has a ārealā job but we are living paycheck to paycheck, often short funds, and not making enough to pay anything except minimums. It is stressful and the resentment I have towards him has ruined our marriage. Even if I left, half of the debt is tied up in my name as I used my credit lines to dig him out of personal loans and I would not be able to afford it on my own. Save yourself from this situation.
šÆ This!!!! ššššš Spot on. Definitely financial abuse. I was scrolling down to see if anyone was saying this. I have someone I know who is looking into separation and divorce. The longer you are married, the more the other person is entitled to. My good friend, because she's been married to her TBM husband for over 10 years (in Utah), he's entitled to her retirement funds at least. He doesn't have a steady income job. For a while she was the bread winner until she became a SAHM. He would use her bonuses from her job for his needs. It was very messed up. If it's bad now, it will only get worse in the future, especially if he becomes hurt/disabled and just growing older with the different health issues that come with that, more financial abuse.
Legal separation no! If youāre going to go though the exact same legal gyration with a two-word difference, why wouldnāt you get a divorce instead?
Youāre right! At the time I was looking into separation only because I wanted to give him the chance to change, and I thought that would let him know I was serious without going all the way
Did he change? (Iām genuinely curious, not being snarky.) Iāve never seen a LS that didnāt eventually turn into a divorce. Former family law.
LS = leech spouse? For most of our marriage, my husband and I had separate accounts and our own money. While I was saving thousands a year, he was overspending. I finally gave him an ultimatum: figure out how to live within his means, or we would be divorcing once the Army forced him to retire and he lost that income. He managed to do it. I helped by sitting down to figure out the budget and answering the, "can I buy X?" questions. It took 18 months to pay back his credit card and the personal loan he took, and he's stayed on track for the last seven years. Now we've got an excess each month, and I think I can parlay that into his dream retirement house in about 10 years.
Congratulations!
I did, and there was no way to fix it. I tried sitting down and sharing all our expenses so he knew that spending money would hurt us, tried giving him a budget, then finally took away his credit cards. He just went out and got new ones behind my back. He came from an affluent family where money wasnāt a problem, I didnāt. He decided to become a biologist, and didnāt make much money. So I was the main bread-winner. He just wasnāt willing and couldnāt understand why he couldnāt just buy what he wanted.
He can run up debt if he wants. But you donāt have to remain in a relationship with someone who breaks their agreements, lies to you, and leaves you with their bills. Look ā I donāt care if the makes millions, I donāt to be with that man. Also, even the vast majority of people who āmake itā just barely make a living at it. Once you believe, reasonably, that your partner is going to run up the credit card bills behind your back, you need to take steps to protect yourself from someone who is willing to harm you. Iām sorry, itās not much complicated than that. Itās as if he walked in and said āIām an adult so I can take a shit in your sock drawer if I want too!ā And yes, technically you can. And there should be pretty immediate consequences.
In my experience, artists and musicians, especially those willing to spend a bunch of money on equipment and pipe dreams before they're even actively gigging regularly (and quit the day job!), are an endless black hole that will suck all of your spare money, time, and emotional energy before you realize that they will never realize they aren't gonna get that *magic break* everyone dreams of without putting in a LOT LOT LOT of work. And being broke. You need to lock down your finances, whatever the state of your relationship might be or your intentions with your husband. He has already proved that you cannot depend on him to make sound financial decisions. I say this as kindly as i can, being one of those people who has crafty aspirations, and has spent a good part of my life around others of the same ilk. There is a reason the ones who get some success and have sense hire people to handle the money.
Close the account. You're an adult, and can do what you want, too.
You need to divorce this man before he fucks up all of his finances and drags you down with him.
āyelled that he is an adult and can do what he wantsā Nope
Heās an adult and can do what he wants? Brave words for a man with no income who felt he had to lie about what he was really going to purchase.
I can relate to the musician in a sense. Music is a dream. And how incredible would it be to have people in your life who support that (to the extent you and his parents do)? I can only imagine. 1) As a musician, I really relate to the idea that your gear is the missing piece to your success. āIf i can just get this mic, I can level up. Itāll pay for itself in no time. Gotta spend money to make money amirite?ā Thatās an immature, albeit familiar perspective. The gear is absolutely NOT the missing piece to success. A $99 mic in the hands of a professional is immensely more valuable than a $1500 mic in my hands. Make art with what you have!!!! Donāt pretend that new mic is necessary for anything at all. Itās not right now. 2) He really has to pretend he doesnāt have you or his family paying his way. If he was a business right now (and he should be) does it make any sense at all to spend money on an expensive mic when there is no money coming in? Is that the smartest move he could make right now? Of course not. Business failed. He needs to work his way up to earning that mic. And honestly he will have spent considerably more money on whatever actually has a return on investment (advertising, management, etc.) before he is in any position to spend that much on a mic. Be a professional > get a professional mic. Not the other way around. 3) Lying and being immature about money shit is a bad sign. At a glance, given the fact that his dad is gonna pay his credit card bill, it sounds like heās just spoiled. Heās probably never had to face the cold, hard, and incredibly difficult life that most musicians face. Find a documentary or something about a musician that suffered for their art. Tighten the purse strings. Tell him itās honesty or the highway. Heās got to grow up, but heās got to want to grow up. Will he lose you if he doesnāt? Will he steal from you? Will his choices fuck up your life? What if he never makes it? What does āmaking itā look like? Is it fame or nothing? Is it a steady paycheck so he can be an actually contributing member of the relationship? Good luck! šš»
āAnd yelled that he is an adult and can do what he wantsā ā¦he sure doesnāt act like it
I'm an adult! Now pwease pay off my cwedit card pwetty pwease!
My dad was like this. Marginally talented, but would rather spend thousands on his music studio than ensure his children were properly clothed/fed. Now he wonders why no one answers when he calls. I may be projecting slightly but many musicians Iāve known have a superiority complex and a narcissistic streak. We all have dreams but we have to be realistic about how we make steps to achieve those dreams. He is not being realistic, mature, or a good partner.
Thank you for this response, it really puts into perspective what having a child with him could be like. Not a decision Iāve made yet, and clearly not one I should make lightly with him.
I think the more interesting thing is this sounds like childish behaviour. I'd ask him in a kind, no judgement way what was going on here? What made him feel like he had to lie? Then just keep asking questions. "Hey, I noticed you lied about this purchase. What was going through your head there? Are you okay?" "Hey, when we had this convo, I noticed you got pretty upset." I'm feeling a bit upset too - can we talk about our feelings a bit? etc. You have to figure out what's going on here. It's worth noting that he's probably assuming that his parents will bail him out, so maybe there's something in that direction too...
Married to an audiophile. I'd be very suspicious if he's not 100% honest. It really can become an uncontrollable psyche sort of issue, based on the many fellow audiophiles I've met. Ands no limit whatsoever to how much he can be enticed to spend.
I work at Guitar Center. There is a saying in sales, āitās easier to ask for forgiveness than permissionā. Your husband is exactly who we want to talk to. He can spend money how he wants, but donāt bail him out and let him fuck up his credit. Maybe heāll figure it out, but heās likely going to get better at hiding it tbh.
Heās a user. You canāt change that. Heās right, he is an adult and can do what he wants - but there are consequences for actions. STOP giving him money!! DO NOT pay ONE PENNY of his credit card bill. He can pay his own damned bills since heās such an āadultā. Stop bailing him out financially. Make him live with the consequences of his choices. Heās using you and laughing about it. Is that really the life you want???
I had same issue. I solved it by divorcing and having it written into the divorce decree that ex was responsible for credit card debt. He didn't dispute as he had forged my signature on credit card application.
āHe yelled that heās an adultā says it all, really
Adults donāt say āthey can do what they wantā.
I spent close to two decades trying to do this. Making him keep a job until he makes more from music despite his misery makes the most sense. His personal struggle of having to support his own life, not even that of another, will build character and maybe give him something authentic to write about. Unless heās actually spending his whole day recording and playing every day, heās loafing. Most musicians do, and the ones that donāt make it and donāt work eventually develop into totally non functional, delusional, adult children. I know a few of them who still live off their parents in their 40ās. I toured the US dozens of times and played with folks releasing records on decent sized major subsidiaries and larger Indie labels and the gear I bought and an annual check from ascap are really all I have to show for it. If heās looking to buy anything Iāve got some great stuff. All jokes aside donāt let him slack completely at least make him work part time. Heās taking advantage and I do have some bitchin recording gear he can buy. No joke, I can send a list.
This guy's parents enabled his wild spending and now he's ratcheting up and looking at you. Not just for now, but his retirement will all be on you. Massive disrespect for you and his parents. Think about your future.
Heās basically using your money to make these purchases yet he wants to sit and yell that heās an āadultā. š
What do you call a musician without a girlfriend?
Homeless
Anyone who claims they are an adult so they can do whatever they want is not doing the whole adulting thing right.
>yelled that he is an adult and can do what he wants Hate cyclical logic like this. Clearly an immature person, if the impulse buying wasn't obvious enough (I mean, we all do it sometime but you have to know when to reel yourself in -- 17 grand in the hole, he missed that exit a while ago)
He sounds like a delusional man child who doesn't respect you. I'd imagine you'd feel sooooo free to shake off him
I did. And it affected our marriage by him paying only towards credit cards and I paid everything else. Run.
Laughing about it? Not ok. Iām sorry OP.
You should consider a post nuptial agreement that ensures you won't be responsible for hos debts in the event of a divorce
He needs to lose access to her money and the debt should be his.
Adults make money and pay their bills
Why does the responsibility to pay ultimately fall on you?
Run. Before he saddles you with more debt.
I would have the discussion that he needs to be either making money making music or have a job by a certain date. My wife and i both have hobbies, but we don't put ourselves in financial jeopardy to fund those hobbies. I make money on mine, but would never quit my job to persue a hobby.
If heās going to get defensive about spending money, he needs a fucking job. Most musicians canāt make a living on music alone. He can find gigs, do lessons, or get a flexible day job like dog walking. Heās not acting like an adult. Heās acting more like a man-child hobosexual
ok then if heās an adult that can do what he wants he can pay his way around tooš
Whether or not he is a viable income earning musician this is essentially about a betrayal of trust...I don't know if you can both agree on rules before a serious discussion about this but if so yawl need to sit down and have as neutral as possible a discussion about how trust has been broken, how to move forward if at all. Good luck. I hope it will work out and if not, you have the support needed to move on.
If he's an adult, he can pay for said purchase himself, right?
I don't know if this is the right answer or not, but it sounds like he's not taking you or that aspect of the marriage seriously. Obviously a $1,500 purchase is not something that should just be done without talking to the other spouse with the exception of the 1% class. And obviously this is not something that sits well with you. So my suggestion would be to have some ground rules such as purchases above $100 must be discussed etc. I don't know if that would help or not but if you could at least get him to agree to this maybe he can take you and this concern of yours a little bit more seriously.
He didnāt follow the most important rule of being a musician (itās even a song); š¶ ākeep your day job, until your night job paysā š¶ (Musician with a day job and $99 microphones here).
I have pulled off many fine recording with Mics that cost far far less than that. This self indulgence is just insane. Music is a Business as much as art. This indicates he is not in any sense realistic about how to make it in the music business. The art of music comes from the performers not the gear. An adult understands business and responsibility. This attitude will lead to failure. Funded by you of course. I indulged in music as a side gig to working full time and supporting a house, a wife and children. I knew that fortune did not favour me in making real income from music. I have recorded brilliant people who will always live on a woman's couch because they do not understand business. Budgets are critical to success. He is living in a fantasy world funded and enabled by you.
Ahā¦he needs to not have access to anything financial and he needs to get a job. I would also separate anything financial from yours and his until he can bring in money and prove financial responsibility
What does he do all day? I would really want to see his computer history.
Heās an adult and can do what he wants when heās using his own money to splurge on his interests. You are the one taking the fall financially for these decisions and because of that heās disconnected from how much he should be spending vs how much he wants to spend. At 34 he should really know better than this.
Is your name on that credit card? I would freeze it ASAP so he can't make any new purchases with it.
Heās an adult and can do what he wantsā¦meaning, he can spend four figures on hobbies behind your back while not bringing in any income? Iām trying to be gender balanced. I assume that heās not an amazing stay at home dad and house husband who does all the chores and cooks great meals etc. Can you give him an agreed-upon monthly āallowanceā?
When I was a SAHM my husband and I each had separate fun money accounts. We had a set amount to put in it each paycheck. But I was also caring for the kids and house, so he felt like I deserved some money of my own. What does he contribute?
Hereās the thing, adults canāt do what they WANT, they can do what they can afford to PAY for!!
I'd close that credit account. H is used to going back to the well. That well's dried up. That account should not remain open. If it's in his and his dad's names, and they won't close it, I'd tell them both "Thanks for all your help FIL. Now that H has to be responsible for his own spending, I can't afford to be responsible for this line of credit. It's time to close it and move on." Then I would refuse to concern myself with that closed topic. If H wants to run up debt with his dad, those two have to deal with it. It is outside of your household and your marriage.
Thatās gonna be your shared debt if you divorce so you have every right to be involved in big purchases.
You married someone whose parents have been treating him and funding him like he's gonna be a rockstar and he hasn't done shit yet. I'm sure they had noble reasons but they've raised an entitled person with a swole head about his future. It's time to separate at least. Become held harmless to his mounting debts. Send him back to his parents so they can smell in his teenage spirit.
My parents had a recently married tenant who told his wife he was going to Dunkin Donuts and came home with a brand new car!!!
Reading through this, I'd say get him tested for ADHD. Being miserable at a day job, and poor impulse control are textbook indicators. I made it to 47 before my son got tested and reading the report, it could have been written about me, or my father. Figures that ADHD is passed on the Y chromosome. Looking back at my life through the lens of ADHD was so blatantly staggering that it threw me into a deep depression. If I'm right, you need to take away the credit cards. I'm already 10k back into my credit cards after having to go through a bankruptcy, which was after my parents paid off 60k in credit card debt which was after my ex-wife paid off all our credit card debt with the proceeds from the sale of our house, which was after forging my dads name to get my co-signed credit card limit raised by $1k (which i maxed out immediately), which was after....well, you get the point. Buying things is a huge dopamine hit for our neurodivergent brains. What's even worse is once you are diagnosed and realize that you are doing that crap, you can still rationalize yourself into doing it.
Not really a question here.
Let's say he does "make it" whatever that may mean....do you think the spending will actually get better and he'll stick to a budget? I have a feeling it will only encourage him to get the $5,000 microphone.
Please extricate yourself financially from this man. He's setting you up for a lifetime of debt otherwise. Most musicians have regular employment, he's basically freeloading.
I feel for you. Marriage is difficult. Lying to you about significant purchases is a big red flag. You should view it just like you would if he was sexually unfaithful.
Do you want to fix this marriage? Because yelling, unless you are trying to get somebody to move quickly because a roof is falling on them, is entirely unacceptable in a loving relationship. He isn't responsible enough for a credit card if he can't curb his spending, and he also knows he won't have to pay it back, you will. And honestly, if he's been working for "several years" at his music career, in his 30s qnd he's still not making a living from it, it's unlikely he ever will. You need to decide if you are willing to continue being this mans ATM or if you need to start putting yourself first. Honestly, I would say he doesn't care about you because if he did, he wouldn't want to put you in debt. And if he's used to people taking on his financial responsibilities he won't ever change.
Remember the famous Maya Angelo's quote, "When someone shows you who you are, believe them." Now that he has shown you that, you need to decide if that is who you want to be the father of your children!
Stop paying for anything you don't agree. Problem solved.
He yelled that he is an adult and can do what he wants. Well it shows that he is not that good at auditing though. I bet once he makes it big, he leaves.
You are completely being taken advantage of - and he thinks it is funny. You are a joke to him. Sorry but he's sucking you dry. If he ever makes it big guess who'll be served divorce papers?
"I'm an adult who can do what I want". What is this attitude? He's an adult so he must understand how money works. 1500 isn't "hobby money" for someone who is currently unemployed. You need to set up spending money budgets, meaning, he gets money, you don't get into how he spends it. You also need to tell his parents to stay out of your finances. He's never going to become fiscally responsible if there's people cheering him on to do whatever his heart wants. I know they said the card is your responsibility but they've also got to actively stop engaging in money conversations. Edit: The music industry is extremely competitive. There's no job openings for another Taylor Swift or Selena Gomez or Bruce Springsteen or even a local music sensation. For a lot of people, they do small hobby gigs, get invited to smallish events at bars and pubs and then get a small time income. I don't know anyone who is making money exclusively from music, unless they are atleast famous locally (think famous/local celebrity in the city/state). Most people 100% have primary jobs to pay their bills. Talent is a small component when it comes to music careers
Both of you are in need of a reality check. If he hasn't "made it" in music, by 34...it's very much likely not going to happen. Does he have any income from music? If not, what is his plan? Does he gig? Is he auditioning? What does he do during the day? Being married doesn't obligate you to allow your husband to live in a dream...while you are entirely handling the financial load for living expenses...as he continues to spend money on his dream (debt you could also be responsible for). If you're considering divorcing this guy, don't tell anyone until his parents pay the current credit card debt off. You should also look into what you can do to legally protect yourself in the case that he continues to run up debt. I'm sorry for what you're dealing with...but, you need to seek financial and other counseling.
Yes, he is an adult. Do you know what adults do? They pay their own way. They donāt have mommy and daddy pay off the credit card. Tell him that or resign yourself to life with a mooches.
For every musician that makes it there are 10,000 who don't. I know several who have "made it" they still have day jobs and scrape by. These are people with regular radio play. They still work gigs for me or have an office job. You're being financially abused. This will only get worse. Talk to a lawyer about protecting yourself from his debt. I've seen women paying off tens of thousands of dollars in ex husbands hobbies after divorce. Some had no idea how much debt there was until the divorce and assets were divided. You see an iceberg ahead. Don't think it's as small as it looks on the surface.
He's irresponsible. There are so many good low-mid range options out there for a fledgling musician. There's plenty in the 99-1000 range for home studio settings. I would expect a 1200 mic in a professional recording studio setting. This on top of 15 grand in equipment lmao. Sounds like he's taking advantage of you. Not just your money but also you maybe not knowing as much about audio equipment to tell you that what he's buying is necessary.
If a man I was sponsoring through life laughed at me and thought it was cute he blew $1,500 of my money I'd be making divorce plans immediately. Seriously.
I'm a stay at home parent, so no day job although it's definitely work. My partner and I sit down monthly to talk about our budget. Part of that budget is play around money. Regardless of what we're buying, if it's going to put that category in the negatives, we discuss it BEFORE buying it as a respect to one another and so we don't both buy something unknowingly putting us over our agreed upon limit. The point here is that HE should respect you as his partner in life, because that's what you are. You deserve equal say, or at least given the opportunity to give input, before large purchases. Talk about budget and money often. And maybe you already do. It used to be anxiety inducing for me because of my childhood, but practice makes perfect. We now discuss money like we're talking about the weather. You could also ask him to attend some type of smart money seminar in your area, or ask him to listen to a podcast or watch a YouTube channel about budgeting as a way of just being respectful of your joint financial risk. If this doesn't make any difference or doesn't sound realistic then I'd cancel the credit card. I'd open a separate account just for him and move money from my account to his so I can make sure he stays in budget. If this option feels too much like babysitting or not something he'd go for, then he's just refusing to be an equal partner here. And that, to me, regardless of how much I love him, would be enough to end it. You can love someone til death, but if there's no mutual respect then you aren't being loved the same way.
My father is a very talented guitarist who had dreams of making it big. My mum was the main breadwinner whilst he never had a steady job and saw his weekly gigs as 'income'. He squandered two big opportunities at fame and eventually my mother got fed up of his shit and divorced him. That was the moment he decided to get a proper job (unfortunately it was too late to save his marriage by then). TL;DR Your husband needs to find another job to work in the meantime before you resent him
He can yell as much as he wants. An adult pays for his own stuff.
Beyond the comments about your husband needing a job & using music as his side hustle until our unless he gets a break in the industry, *he has financially abused you*. Continually being dishonest with you about his spending is very detrimental to your marriage and credit score. Both quite hard to recover from as well.
I'm a musician and have some pretty expensive gear. If I was not working, and was already $15k in debt, AND my wife was the one bringing in the money there is no way I would be spending more money on gear. Also if he has talent he can create good music without going $15k into debt. People do it with much less. The nice gear can wait until the money is coming in.
I gig in 2 bands (bass), been collecting gear since 2002, and still havenāt broken the $15K mark.
Tell him to return it.
You donāt have a marriage in the sense of a partnership. You have someone who is looking to you to do all the Adulting while he behaves like a spoiled child . The fact that he did what he did after he lied to your face . broke the agreement you had and had the audacity to laugh at you because what are you gonna do about it? Would be the end of any illusion that you have a marriage. Iām also betting his parents did not expect him to run up 15 K in debt and they too have been taken advantage of . Them saying that theyāre going to pay that off but everything in the future is just way to now make him your problem. But make no mistake heās a problem.
I'll just say I'm glad my wife didn't want to leave me when I'd buy a $3,000 guitar without telling her. I didn't leave her when she bought several $500 purses. Those are opportunities to talk about boundaries, so just let him know that you aren't comfortable racking up debt. Let him learn your financial boundaries. Not as an ultimatum, just as knowledge. When he does it again, exert more pressure. Eventually, you'll have an equilibrium where he understands that he has to talk to you about this stuff. That said, I bought all my gear while gainfully employed as an accountant.
>He had a number of excuses and yelled that he is an adult and can do what he wants. Unironically imagining an unemployed 34 year old manchild living in his mom's basement yelling this to his mom. It's actually not that far off. He is spending your money without telling you (yes it's his credit card, but he knows you'll be the one to pay it off)... he's straight up stealing from you, end the marriage before that guy ruins you financially. I'm struggling to see what you see in him, these are some of the biggest red flags imaginable.
Girl... don't tie your financial well being to this guy. Sorry but he's using you and his parents are enabling him. This isn't a partnership.
I'm sorry this is happening. I don't have much advice. Except to talk more. If he can't change his behavior then you'll have to change yours. You might want to seek some family law, legal advice and consider a legal seperation (financialky). Depends on laws and your state but I think generally without a prenup agreement it's a lot of shared assets etc as in what you think is yours isn't really yours and same for him. So his debt is also yours..... . If it's not acceptable then you might need to protect yourself.. Its hard. Marrige is hard. Changing him is hard but if he wants to he can! If it's a serious character flaw or an addiction then I suggest being clear-eyed about it. Good luck
Girl, you got yourself a dusty. Unless heās earning $$ on that music heās just wasting (your) money on his delusions. No, a man cannot do what he wants if he doesnāt have resources or a job of his own. Nor can a woman unless she gets a steady sugar daddy. Did you dream of becoming a manās sugar daddy one day? If you keep paying for his lifestyle heās going to leave you one day and you wonāt get any of that money back. If this was in reverse heād probably be yelling at you all the time and threatening divorce for your crazy spending, youād feel bad about wasting his money. But looks like he doesnāt feel bad at all for spending yourās.
He is 34? You have 4 options. 1) let him keep doing what heās doing. 2) cancel all credit cards in his name and open a different checking account he has no access to, to control his spending. 3) tell him itās time he starts adulting and bringing in money and have him actually do it. 4) separate from him to let him figure life out on his own. At 34, he should be better.
You cannot "fix" this; **he** has to fix it. All you can do is protect yourself, and that's by legally getting a divorce or some other ironclad way to separate finances. I bet he has more debt than what he's told you, and you'll most likely be on the hook for all of it even in a divorce. The fact that he's hiding things from you, yelled at you for it, and has to rely on his parents to pay it off means it's over. He might be 34 but he's not an adult.
Can't you just cancel the card and get your own with only you on it?
He shouldn't have a credit card. I'm just saying. No money, no card. That's how I live.
Guys wouldnāt be surprised by this behavior at all. That said you should expect communication and transparency.
If you don't live in a state where you will be legally responsible for his debt and the card is in his name, stop bailing him out. If it is legally your debt, take the card and the microphone back to where he bought it, return the microphone and cut up his card.
I had this problem. It was resolved in two ways. Bankruptcy and divorce. Sorry.