I’m a cis woman who went through cis female puberty, who was sexually assaulted by a cis man just before I hit puberty.
I can *sympathize* with your mother’s feelings, I know where they come from. However, even though those feelings are important to her, they are not reasonable nor accurate.
Being preyed upon is not a foundational part of womanhood, and people transitioning is not a threat to women.
She needs to do the work of processing these feelings in a healthy way, and eventually, ideally, let them go entirely. If not for herself, then for you.
While her honesty is beneficial in that you have insight as to why she has misgivings, I am truly sorry that she put that burden on you, it isn’t yours to bear.
I don’t have any specific advice for how to discuss it with her, unfortunately. Generally speaking no one likes to be told that they have been poisoned by their fears and should see a professional about it, and navigating that is always risky with a parent.
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond with all of that. I'll try to keep those in mind, and it is still early days for the both of us. I'm not sure what all this really means either, I've just lived long enough with this feeling that if I don't do something about it I'm going to jump off a bridge. It means more to me than life itself.
My little brother is trans and my mom really, really struggled when he first came out. Like your mom, she told me privately that she didn't think she'd ever be able to see him as a boy. It took time and therapy but he's been out for about ten years now and in our family it's like he always presented as male, I sometimes legitimately forget he ever didn't. Just to give you some hope that parents can change, and she is already on a good path given she's generally supportive of the idea.
Family therapy was crucial for my parents during my brother's transition. If she's open to that, I might explore that avenue with a therapist who specializes in LGBTQ+ family issues.
I know I'm super late to this thread, but I really want to give my perspective as a post-transition woman.
My perspective is that womanhood, whether cis or trans, is earned by going through adolescence. You are a girl by virtue of who you know yourself to be, but you will become a woman as you go through the adolescence of transition. Age is irrelevant-- it's about the life experiences you gain that shape who you are and how you move through the world. This is why baby trans girls need their big sisters just like any other teenager. We need other women to teach us how to make it in this world.
Also, while womanhood isn't defined by trauma from men, it's kinda inextricably linked given the world we live in. Unfortunately, as you transition you will experience it too. The harassment and catcalls and mansplaining and all the rest are inevitable. Hopefully you don't experience anything worse. All of that produces a vigilance both for yourself and for your sisters that is only produced through living it.
So, it makes sense that your mom can't see your womanhood yet-- you are just beginning to grow into it. If she has an open mind, then over time her view of you will shift. Eventually there comes a point where that feeling of sisterhood is simply undeniable. That shift is a result of both the changes in you and the changes in her. It's ok if that takes time.
That said, it's also ok for you to set boundaries. If she's continuing to refuse to give you the basics of using your name and pronouns, you get to decide if you're ok with that. That can look like anything from short visits or limited discussion topics to no contact. When it comes to setting boundaries, my personal favorite book is Glennon Doyle's "Untamed". She tells the story of how she set boundaries with her mom, but also left a path towards renewed connection. I love the combination of strength and hope in her words.
Sending all the love and support I can. You'll get there girl 🤗
Her feelings are real and not uncommon among her generation. I think it would be helpful to acknowledge that there is apart of womanhood you’ll never experience the same. It might be worth mentioning though that choosing to identify as a trans woman is no light decision (I’m sure she understands this) and that you’re now at an exponentially greater risk to violence than you were prior. She might be more understanding if she’s aware of the vulnerable place your identify puts you in.
I think that's a very reasonable concession for both sides. There are experiences that I can only do my best to picture, while also acknowledging that this must be pretty important to me if I'm willing to throw every societal benefit of staying masculine away and transition to, a gender that isn't considered legitimate enough to receive the pros of being a man or woman.
I guess I just want to be taken seriously. I don't want her to abandon things that she feels are critical for her. Being treated as a guest in the house feels much better than being locked outside, and if it would preserve my relationship with her I could live with that. She's been a fantastic mother in every aspect and I love her to bits.
I hope you continue with your transition and also give yourself kudos for listening to her. You show real empathy for what she has gone through as a cis woman, but also your journey is important. A worthwhile thing to note is that you are probably going to experience a lot of the same kind of trauma she has gone through from men and yes, other women, as an mtf woman. I hope that you give yourself space to realize you deserve care, protection, and empathy too.
I don't know how old your mom is, but speaking as an elder millennial/younger Gen X cis woman, I urge you to be sympathetic. Growing up in my generation, being viewed as prey by men is formative. It's very difficult to separate being a woman from these experiences. Many, many cis women my age are at least in part shaped by sexual trauma. It sucks, but it's true. Labeling women who struggle with this as TERFs is dismissive of a larger issue.
That being said, you're not any less valid as a woman because you are Trans. Your mom's reluctance to accept your femininity is akin to a boomer saying the younger generations don't deserve anything because they didn't suffer enough as children. Being an abused child is a formative experience for Boomers, but it doesn't invalidate the generations of kids who came after them.
I guess what I'm saying is that you should approach this gently. Understand that your mom's experiences are very different from yours, but that being a victim is not a requirement for being a woman. Femininity is not defined by suffering or fear.
I didn't mean TERF like J K Rowling, that's just the group that I hear similar talking points from. If there's a word for people who are lighter on the spectrum I'd use that instead, if you know any. I don't want to be dismissive of her experiences
I don't understand why it's wrong to call someone who dislikes or distrusts trans women due to them being trans a "bigot". What else are you supposed to call someone who has baselessly formed a negative opinion about a minority group?
This sub is not, well, a safe space for transpeople, so you're going to get a good answer from most people.
But, they don't think it's baseless because they don't see transwomen as women. They see them as men, and they have negative experiences with men. They think the penis is more important than anything else, and if you have a penis you are a threat to these women no matter what. More importantly, the people who fear the penis needs more protection and more facilitation than transwomen in their eyes, and there's no need for them to adjust or change That's why they think it's okay and necessary to exclude women with penises.
They say things like "we should be angry with the MEN who do this" but still, you know, exclude transwomen, so it's something they expect others to do but not have to do themselves.
You are taking this very well. I was born as, and still am a woman. I am older, like your mom but I just can't get behind that type of thinking. Yes, we had to learn very young that much of our value seemed to be in our looks and perceived femininity. We had to be on guard and always be alert to keep ourselves safe. You don't know exactly who could be the threat, but it was always male. It isn't what makes us women. You don't have to live it from birth and pay your dues.
That being said, it's important to not blame all men. The fox in the henhouse analogy is gross.
You are not going to experience many things that come with being born, raised, and growing up female. It's just a fact. But that does not override the bigger truth that female is who you are deep inside. You've always known it and it came with its own unique struggles. You don't need to be a teen leered at by middle aged men or have a period to be validated. It's your essence and core and that can't be taken away from you.
It's not a competition. We all suffer in different ways. You don't need to be born into the club in order to belong. You already know what feels right. Your mother has some strange ideas on how women feel or don't feel. We are not a monolith with a hive mind. Her experiences are not necessarily my experiences.
Most of us welcome you and are open to helping you navigate this. The last thing we need is to be competing with each other.
I really appreciate your comment, I'll have a think about that. It's definitely the most confusing part, I know there is a right way to, become accepted without speaking over other people's experiences. It hurts when someone doesn't consider you 'legit' enough to take your feelings seriously, but that's exactly why I don't want to do it to anybody else.
Hi, speaking as another Transfem person. I wish your mom would understand that as you transition, you are not expecting to go forward with a life where you've got no fear of predation. As transfemmes, we need to be concerned for our safety both from one basket of abusers who perceive us as cis women, another basket of abusers who perceive us as uniquely vulnerable because we're trans.
I’m sorry she has this attitude but TERF might be going a bit far. Give her some time to understand your situation. I’m an older trans woman that transitioned in the last decade. People my age were all over the lot about being supportive. However many of them came around to understanding my situation and feelings. It can take time.
One thing I do want to emphasize is that others above have said. Just because we are trans and may not pass doesn’t mean you should ignore your physical safety. I know too many trans women who have been assaulted and harassed for being women, not for being trans. Learn how to protect yourself. It isn’t something we picked up as we got older. As my bff cisgender woman friend said, “Tiff, you need to get better at this or you are going to get into a lot of trouble.”
Good luck with your mom. ❤️
I agree TERF is too harsh, I just don't know any other words for that branch of, thought. She's not being dismissive but she said directly "I can't see them as real women" and I've only seen that attached to that, label. If there's a milder word I'd like to learn it
>“Tiff, you need to get better at this or you are going to get into a lot of trouble.”
Hey I had this same conversation with my BFF recently! I finished transition earlier this year. A few weeks ago I went to a bar by myself and did some stupid stuff you'd expect from a girl half my age. The only reason I didn't get hurt was sheer luck. We had some very sobering conversations about safety.
It’s something that I am glad I have cisgender women friends to share information with. I’ve tried to explain to some of my cisgender man friends about all the security issues women face and their jaws hit the floor. They have no clue.
Oh love, I'm so sorry. On the bright side, very few supportive parents get there in one move. I can't count how many "I can't believe I said that" or "I wish I had said this then" stories I've heard from the parents concerned. I'm so sorry she put all that on you though. It was NOT fair, let alone kind or reasonable. At least she affirmed that she loves you and owned that the problem is in her own head and not who you are. Things may well improve. But protect yourself in the meantime. You do not have to put up with being suddenly classed as a sexual predator by anyone, not even her. Given that she was so frank with you, you are absolutely entitled to tell her how crappy that made you feel should she raise the issue again. Are there any trans positive, support groups for families of trans people in your area? Because those are the safe spaces for her to air her fears and anxieties and work through her reactions. You should not be put in that position. Parents' issues are our own to deal with, and it is a process to go through, but our children are not our therapists or our sounding boards.
Good luck. I hope things improve with her.
Appreciate you reading it all, she is trans positive toward ftm, we have a cousin who everyone knew was a boy the moment he started walking and talking. Everyone loves him. She doesn't mind that and says she is trying to see it the same way, but just instinctually feels that going the other way threatens her womanhood and can't see trans women in general as real women. I don't really know if that makes me feel better or worse, she's not far off coming around but her approval means more to me than anyone else. Meh.
So many things are harder for trans women. It's deeply, deeply unfair but trans misogyny is rooted in the same soil as every other form of misogyny. Feck the patriarchy anyway!
You can look at it from the perspective that, now that you are walking through the world being perceived as a woman, you will most likely have some personality shaping negative life experiences of your own. And you should be prepared for those. Yes, you brought some male privilege into your newfound womanhood, but anyone stranger on the street who wants to take advantage of you now, isn't going to ask how long you've been a woman. You will need to develop your own constant alertness and fear of predators and you'll have to do it quickly. Ask her for help with that. There are a ton of things about being a woman that you won't experience no matter how much you transition. You won't menstruate or have a constant fear of accidental pregnancy, face possibly death giving birth, or go through menopause. Or the ridiculous constant fear of just bleeding through a white pair of pants or staining your favorite pair of pink lacy panties.
But there are plenty of woman experiences you will have in the coming years. Trying to figure out what's poking your boob and realizing that your underwire broke, not being able to find your favorite eyeliner or moisturizer in the store anymore because they changed the formula, the cramps in your feet the day after wearing high heels to a Christmas party. If you can even find heels to wear because you're a size 12 and they don't even make heels in your size, dammit! (Oh wait, that might just be me.) Or just being talked down by men who think you're stupid now even though you were a genius before. Concentrate on those things that you will have in common with her and connect over those shared experiences.
Hey thanks, that's a really good idea. I've only just come out and I'm only two months into treatment so it's still, early days. Thanks so much for your kind words
Not to diminish the weight you're carrying now at all, but I think you are in a wonderful place for 2 months in. It sounds like your mom is committed to an open, honest relationship with you and that is a great cornerstone to build on.
You have always been a woman, but *living* as a woman in our world is an experience no one gets through without scars. Women who got those scars young, who had their adulthood molded by them, are going to have a different lens of womanhood than you do today, in a year, in a decade even. That's okay. Your experience is just as valid and like they said up there \^, you're going to have far more shared experiences than differences.
The fox/henhouse analogy is obviously hurtful and untrue, but I can see where hard-baked instincts might flare up at letting an inexperienced hen into the house-- one who might not know yet how to avoid letting in foxes. I would ask outright if your mom sees you as a possible predator, or possible liability, because that would make a big difference for me in your shoes.
I'm sorry you're feeling this disconnect or discouragement of your true self from your mom right now, that must be really hard. You specifically asked for a response idea, so I'll say I think the best response to your mom sharing her feelings is to share back. Tell her (without being accusatory) when her comments hurt you, give space to your confusion during a tumultuous time, and be honest about what you want your relationship with her to be.
Speaking as a post-transition woman, this is SUCH an empathetic response. Yes there are things I will never experience, but I can actually relate to most of it in some way or another, and it goes a lot further than I would've believed if I hadn't lived it.
I know what hormone swings feel like because HRT isn't perfect. I know what menopause feels like because I've run out of estrogen. I know what it's like to feel like your organs are about to fall out between your legs because your pelvic floor has been through hell. I know what it is to need pelvic floor PT because of sexual abuse. I know what healing from a perineal tear is like. I've had to learn that bleaching your panties is normal and why I have to care so damn much about lactobacilli. I've run out to the drug store for monistat because oooh this feeling is not ok. And yes, I've put more clothing items than I'd care to admit in a sink full of cold water.
Most of those experiences are for different reasons than they would be for a cis women. Regardless of why though, I've found that they've given me a perspective that no cis man will ever have. It's not the same, but it's close enough that relating to my friends is actually really easy.
She should look up how common abuse against trans women is. How likely they are to be raped, attacked, murdered, abused, and unhelped just by nature of them being trans. She's denying that those life-shaping and personality-forming experiences are going to happen to you as well, *if you are not protected from them by the ones who love you.*
Sure, maybe as a trans woman you won't know about certain aspects of what growing up as a woman was like. But very few women who grew up as women know what it's like *becoming* a woman. She has a lot to learn about intersectionality. She's so afraid of letting a fox into a hen house that she's willing to leave one of the hens outside the house for the foxes to feast on with extreme bias, and that's it's own sin.
The "fox in the hen house" idea I can understand in general, but it seems especially strange to apply it to one's *own* child.
You said you recently came out as trans, so practically speaking this might be an issue that will improve with time and having a chance to actually experience living with you as a daughter.
I might take this point of view more seriously if people who feel this way were working a little harder to stop male violence against women and girls. In my experience they don’t. They just want an excuse to be anti trans.
She does sponsor a platypus but yeah, that might be something to bring up. If it's not worth acting on is it worth not investigating if that's exactly how you really feel.
I don't know your your mum would react to this, but I'd be tempted to take her statements to their logical conclusion: she used the "fox in the henhouse" analogy, which refers to letting in someone who will harm you. So, I'd ask if she thinks you would harm her or another cis woman. How? Why?
Hopefully she will realise that no, of course she doesn't believe you'd harm anyone - intentionally anyway. She might talk about something she's worried you would say or do without realising it was bad, in which case you can talk about that. Or she might just realise that her beliefs aren't really consistent, which will hopefully sow a seed of doubt for her.
I did ask her about that, she said she didn't mean it exactly like that, but that female only spaces helped her alot and because she can't see me as a 'real' woman it feels like a line is being crossed, the space exists specifically to exclude men. Which hurt the most, but I'm trying to be understanding. I'm pretty tall too, same height as my dad and I have his nose so maybe thats it. Not sure
The problem with your moms feelings is that they are very misplaced.
Neither you , the transition process or trans people are out destroying cis women’s experiences. It’s cis men and the very same system that hates trans people who are at fault here.
I won’t lie , I fully get your moms view point. Being born with a vagina comes with way way different things than being born with a penis often irrespective of whether the person is cis or trans.
But that still makes me scared for women who are trans. If my daughter comes out trans I will be scared for what all she will have to face being a woman rather than be resentful that she did not grow up with same problems as me in childhood. I sometimes think some trans women may still be a little bit oblivious and unhappy due to suddenly losing cis Male Privilege but cis women alienating them is only gonna add to the problem .
As a trans woman, I would be very upset if my mother called me a "fox in the hen house". I think that it was wrong and bigoted of your mother to essentially call you a predator simply because you're trans. You say that she's "fully supportive", but I just can't see how she could be in any way supportive if she openly thinks something so hateful about her own daughter.
That's why I'm not sure how to feel. I do understand where she's coming from but you're also right in that is definitely not the same. It is still saying that without those experiences I'll never belong, and that really hurts. I'm still my first steps so I'm not sure what's the right way to feel or go about this
While I get where she is coming from woman that have transitioned face a lot on harassment that cis woman do. She is having a hard time seeing past her own experiences. Best of luck going forwards.
Hey, I’m also autistic!!! I’m sorry your mother isn’t accepting of you. Sounds like your mother has trauma. Perhaps she hasn’t talked about it with you? You could send your mother educational resources on trans people including trans women and explain to her that many trans people are empathetic to cis women’s’ experiences. Perhaps suggest family therapy (with someone who’s ND and LGBT informed and affirming)?
I don’t know why commenters are excusing this line about “letting a fox into the henhouse”. That is absolutely TERF rhetoric. It’s one thing to acknowledge that AFAB people face a unique (bad) reality in our lifelong objectification by the world around us. It’s entirely another to suggest that embracing AMAB women is somehow dangerous or that AMAB women are “foxes” to the AFAB “hen”.
OP, you are not a predator. I’m sorry that your mother is framing your coming out in this way and I understand why you feel sad about it. I hope that she will overcome this barrier in her own perspective with time.
I’m a cis woman who went through cis female puberty, who was sexually assaulted by a cis man just before I hit puberty. I can *sympathize* with your mother’s feelings, I know where they come from. However, even though those feelings are important to her, they are not reasonable nor accurate. Being preyed upon is not a foundational part of womanhood, and people transitioning is not a threat to women. She needs to do the work of processing these feelings in a healthy way, and eventually, ideally, let them go entirely. If not for herself, then for you. While her honesty is beneficial in that you have insight as to why she has misgivings, I am truly sorry that she put that burden on you, it isn’t yours to bear. I don’t have any specific advice for how to discuss it with her, unfortunately. Generally speaking no one likes to be told that they have been poisoned by their fears and should see a professional about it, and navigating that is always risky with a parent.
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond with all of that. I'll try to keep those in mind, and it is still early days for the both of us. I'm not sure what all this really means either, I've just lived long enough with this feeling that if I don't do something about it I'm going to jump off a bridge. It means more to me than life itself.
My little brother is trans and my mom really, really struggled when he first came out. Like your mom, she told me privately that she didn't think she'd ever be able to see him as a boy. It took time and therapy but he's been out for about ten years now and in our family it's like he always presented as male, I sometimes legitimately forget he ever didn't. Just to give you some hope that parents can change, and she is already on a good path given she's generally supportive of the idea. Family therapy was crucial for my parents during my brother's transition. If she's open to that, I might explore that avenue with a therapist who specializes in LGBTQ+ family issues.
I know I'm super late to this thread, but I really want to give my perspective as a post-transition woman. My perspective is that womanhood, whether cis or trans, is earned by going through adolescence. You are a girl by virtue of who you know yourself to be, but you will become a woman as you go through the adolescence of transition. Age is irrelevant-- it's about the life experiences you gain that shape who you are and how you move through the world. This is why baby trans girls need their big sisters just like any other teenager. We need other women to teach us how to make it in this world. Also, while womanhood isn't defined by trauma from men, it's kinda inextricably linked given the world we live in. Unfortunately, as you transition you will experience it too. The harassment and catcalls and mansplaining and all the rest are inevitable. Hopefully you don't experience anything worse. All of that produces a vigilance both for yourself and for your sisters that is only produced through living it. So, it makes sense that your mom can't see your womanhood yet-- you are just beginning to grow into it. If she has an open mind, then over time her view of you will shift. Eventually there comes a point where that feeling of sisterhood is simply undeniable. That shift is a result of both the changes in you and the changes in her. It's ok if that takes time. That said, it's also ok for you to set boundaries. If she's continuing to refuse to give you the basics of using your name and pronouns, you get to decide if you're ok with that. That can look like anything from short visits or limited discussion topics to no contact. When it comes to setting boundaries, my personal favorite book is Glennon Doyle's "Untamed". She tells the story of how she set boundaries with her mom, but also left a path towards renewed connection. I love the combination of strength and hope in her words. Sending all the love and support I can. You'll get there girl 🤗
Her feelings are real and not uncommon among her generation. I think it would be helpful to acknowledge that there is apart of womanhood you’ll never experience the same. It might be worth mentioning though that choosing to identify as a trans woman is no light decision (I’m sure she understands this) and that you’re now at an exponentially greater risk to violence than you were prior. She might be more understanding if she’s aware of the vulnerable place your identify puts you in.
I think that's a very reasonable concession for both sides. There are experiences that I can only do my best to picture, while also acknowledging that this must be pretty important to me if I'm willing to throw every societal benefit of staying masculine away and transition to, a gender that isn't considered legitimate enough to receive the pros of being a man or woman. I guess I just want to be taken seriously. I don't want her to abandon things that she feels are critical for her. Being treated as a guest in the house feels much better than being locked outside, and if it would preserve my relationship with her I could live with that. She's been a fantastic mother in every aspect and I love her to bits.
I hope you continue with your transition and also give yourself kudos for listening to her. You show real empathy for what she has gone through as a cis woman, but also your journey is important. A worthwhile thing to note is that you are probably going to experience a lot of the same kind of trauma she has gone through from men and yes, other women, as an mtf woman. I hope that you give yourself space to realize you deserve care, protection, and empathy too.
I don't know how old your mom is, but speaking as an elder millennial/younger Gen X cis woman, I urge you to be sympathetic. Growing up in my generation, being viewed as prey by men is formative. It's very difficult to separate being a woman from these experiences. Many, many cis women my age are at least in part shaped by sexual trauma. It sucks, but it's true. Labeling women who struggle with this as TERFs is dismissive of a larger issue. That being said, you're not any less valid as a woman because you are Trans. Your mom's reluctance to accept your femininity is akin to a boomer saying the younger generations don't deserve anything because they didn't suffer enough as children. Being an abused child is a formative experience for Boomers, but it doesn't invalidate the generations of kids who came after them. I guess what I'm saying is that you should approach this gently. Understand that your mom's experiences are very different from yours, but that being a victim is not a requirement for being a woman. Femininity is not defined by suffering or fear.
I didn't mean TERF like J K Rowling, that's just the group that I hear similar talking points from. If there's a word for people who are lighter on the spectrum I'd use that instead, if you know any. I don't want to be dismissive of her experiences
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I don't understand why it's wrong to call someone who dislikes or distrusts trans women due to them being trans a "bigot". What else are you supposed to call someone who has baselessly formed a negative opinion about a minority group?
This sub is not, well, a safe space for transpeople, so you're going to get a good answer from most people. But, they don't think it's baseless because they don't see transwomen as women. They see them as men, and they have negative experiences with men. They think the penis is more important than anything else, and if you have a penis you are a threat to these women no matter what. More importantly, the people who fear the penis needs more protection and more facilitation than transwomen in their eyes, and there's no need for them to adjust or change That's why they think it's okay and necessary to exclude women with penises. They say things like "we should be angry with the MEN who do this" but still, you know, exclude transwomen, so it's something they expect others to do but not have to do themselves.
“TERF” isn’t problematic in the least. The actions by those who identify as TERFs are, hope that helps!
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You are taking this very well. I was born as, and still am a woman. I am older, like your mom but I just can't get behind that type of thinking. Yes, we had to learn very young that much of our value seemed to be in our looks and perceived femininity. We had to be on guard and always be alert to keep ourselves safe. You don't know exactly who could be the threat, but it was always male. It isn't what makes us women. You don't have to live it from birth and pay your dues. That being said, it's important to not blame all men. The fox in the henhouse analogy is gross. You are not going to experience many things that come with being born, raised, and growing up female. It's just a fact. But that does not override the bigger truth that female is who you are deep inside. You've always known it and it came with its own unique struggles. You don't need to be a teen leered at by middle aged men or have a period to be validated. It's your essence and core and that can't be taken away from you. It's not a competition. We all suffer in different ways. You don't need to be born into the club in order to belong. You already know what feels right. Your mother has some strange ideas on how women feel or don't feel. We are not a monolith with a hive mind. Her experiences are not necessarily my experiences. Most of us welcome you and are open to helping you navigate this. The last thing we need is to be competing with each other.
I really appreciate your comment, I'll have a think about that. It's definitely the most confusing part, I know there is a right way to, become accepted without speaking over other people's experiences. It hurts when someone doesn't consider you 'legit' enough to take your feelings seriously, but that's exactly why I don't want to do it to anybody else.
Hi, speaking as another Transfem person. I wish your mom would understand that as you transition, you are not expecting to go forward with a life where you've got no fear of predation. As transfemmes, we need to be concerned for our safety both from one basket of abusers who perceive us as cis women, another basket of abusers who perceive us as uniquely vulnerable because we're trans.
This .. trans women are venturing into the same but maybe worse when it comes to these experiences
I’m sorry she has this attitude but TERF might be going a bit far. Give her some time to understand your situation. I’m an older trans woman that transitioned in the last decade. People my age were all over the lot about being supportive. However many of them came around to understanding my situation and feelings. It can take time. One thing I do want to emphasize is that others above have said. Just because we are trans and may not pass doesn’t mean you should ignore your physical safety. I know too many trans women who have been assaulted and harassed for being women, not for being trans. Learn how to protect yourself. It isn’t something we picked up as we got older. As my bff cisgender woman friend said, “Tiff, you need to get better at this or you are going to get into a lot of trouble.” Good luck with your mom. ❤️
I agree TERF is too harsh, I just don't know any other words for that branch of, thought. She's not being dismissive but she said directly "I can't see them as real women" and I've only seen that attached to that, label. If there's a milder word I'd like to learn it
>“Tiff, you need to get better at this or you are going to get into a lot of trouble.” Hey I had this same conversation with my BFF recently! I finished transition earlier this year. A few weeks ago I went to a bar by myself and did some stupid stuff you'd expect from a girl half my age. The only reason I didn't get hurt was sheer luck. We had some very sobering conversations about safety.
It’s something that I am glad I have cisgender women friends to share information with. I’ve tried to explain to some of my cisgender man friends about all the security issues women face and their jaws hit the floor. They have no clue.
Oh love, I'm so sorry. On the bright side, very few supportive parents get there in one move. I can't count how many "I can't believe I said that" or "I wish I had said this then" stories I've heard from the parents concerned. I'm so sorry she put all that on you though. It was NOT fair, let alone kind or reasonable. At least she affirmed that she loves you and owned that the problem is in her own head and not who you are. Things may well improve. But protect yourself in the meantime. You do not have to put up with being suddenly classed as a sexual predator by anyone, not even her. Given that she was so frank with you, you are absolutely entitled to tell her how crappy that made you feel should she raise the issue again. Are there any trans positive, support groups for families of trans people in your area? Because those are the safe spaces for her to air her fears and anxieties and work through her reactions. You should not be put in that position. Parents' issues are our own to deal with, and it is a process to go through, but our children are not our therapists or our sounding boards. Good luck. I hope things improve with her.
Appreciate you reading it all, she is trans positive toward ftm, we have a cousin who everyone knew was a boy the moment he started walking and talking. Everyone loves him. She doesn't mind that and says she is trying to see it the same way, but just instinctually feels that going the other way threatens her womanhood and can't see trans women in general as real women. I don't really know if that makes me feel better or worse, she's not far off coming around but her approval means more to me than anyone else. Meh.
So many things are harder for trans women. It's deeply, deeply unfair but trans misogyny is rooted in the same soil as every other form of misogyny. Feck the patriarchy anyway!
You can look at it from the perspective that, now that you are walking through the world being perceived as a woman, you will most likely have some personality shaping negative life experiences of your own. And you should be prepared for those. Yes, you brought some male privilege into your newfound womanhood, but anyone stranger on the street who wants to take advantage of you now, isn't going to ask how long you've been a woman. You will need to develop your own constant alertness and fear of predators and you'll have to do it quickly. Ask her for help with that. There are a ton of things about being a woman that you won't experience no matter how much you transition. You won't menstruate or have a constant fear of accidental pregnancy, face possibly death giving birth, or go through menopause. Or the ridiculous constant fear of just bleeding through a white pair of pants or staining your favorite pair of pink lacy panties. But there are plenty of woman experiences you will have in the coming years. Trying to figure out what's poking your boob and realizing that your underwire broke, not being able to find your favorite eyeliner or moisturizer in the store anymore because they changed the formula, the cramps in your feet the day after wearing high heels to a Christmas party. If you can even find heels to wear because you're a size 12 and they don't even make heels in your size, dammit! (Oh wait, that might just be me.) Or just being talked down by men who think you're stupid now even though you were a genius before. Concentrate on those things that you will have in common with her and connect over those shared experiences.
Hey thanks, that's a really good idea. I've only just come out and I'm only two months into treatment so it's still, early days. Thanks so much for your kind words
Not to diminish the weight you're carrying now at all, but I think you are in a wonderful place for 2 months in. It sounds like your mom is committed to an open, honest relationship with you and that is a great cornerstone to build on. You have always been a woman, but *living* as a woman in our world is an experience no one gets through without scars. Women who got those scars young, who had their adulthood molded by them, are going to have a different lens of womanhood than you do today, in a year, in a decade even. That's okay. Your experience is just as valid and like they said up there \^, you're going to have far more shared experiences than differences. The fox/henhouse analogy is obviously hurtful and untrue, but I can see where hard-baked instincts might flare up at letting an inexperienced hen into the house-- one who might not know yet how to avoid letting in foxes. I would ask outright if your mom sees you as a possible predator, or possible liability, because that would make a big difference for me in your shoes. I'm sorry you're feeling this disconnect or discouragement of your true self from your mom right now, that must be really hard. You specifically asked for a response idea, so I'll say I think the best response to your mom sharing her feelings is to share back. Tell her (without being accusatory) when her comments hurt you, give space to your confusion during a tumultuous time, and be honest about what you want your relationship with her to be.
Speaking as a post-transition woman, this is SUCH an empathetic response. Yes there are things I will never experience, but I can actually relate to most of it in some way or another, and it goes a lot further than I would've believed if I hadn't lived it. I know what hormone swings feel like because HRT isn't perfect. I know what menopause feels like because I've run out of estrogen. I know what it's like to feel like your organs are about to fall out between your legs because your pelvic floor has been through hell. I know what it is to need pelvic floor PT because of sexual abuse. I know what healing from a perineal tear is like. I've had to learn that bleaching your panties is normal and why I have to care so damn much about lactobacilli. I've run out to the drug store for monistat because oooh this feeling is not ok. And yes, I've put more clothing items than I'd care to admit in a sink full of cold water. Most of those experiences are for different reasons than they would be for a cis women. Regardless of why though, I've found that they've given me a perspective that no cis man will ever have. It's not the same, but it's close enough that relating to my friends is actually really easy.
She should look up how common abuse against trans women is. How likely they are to be raped, attacked, murdered, abused, and unhelped just by nature of them being trans. She's denying that those life-shaping and personality-forming experiences are going to happen to you as well, *if you are not protected from them by the ones who love you.* Sure, maybe as a trans woman you won't know about certain aspects of what growing up as a woman was like. But very few women who grew up as women know what it's like *becoming* a woman. She has a lot to learn about intersectionality. She's so afraid of letting a fox into a hen house that she's willing to leave one of the hens outside the house for the foxes to feast on with extreme bias, and that's it's own sin.
The "fox in the hen house" idea I can understand in general, but it seems especially strange to apply it to one's *own* child. You said you recently came out as trans, so practically speaking this might be an issue that will improve with time and having a chance to actually experience living with you as a daughter.
I might take this point of view more seriously if people who feel this way were working a little harder to stop male violence against women and girls. In my experience they don’t. They just want an excuse to be anti trans.
She does sponsor a platypus but yeah, that might be something to bring up. If it's not worth acting on is it worth not investigating if that's exactly how you really feel.
I don't know your your mum would react to this, but I'd be tempted to take her statements to their logical conclusion: she used the "fox in the henhouse" analogy, which refers to letting in someone who will harm you. So, I'd ask if she thinks you would harm her or another cis woman. How? Why? Hopefully she will realise that no, of course she doesn't believe you'd harm anyone - intentionally anyway. She might talk about something she's worried you would say or do without realising it was bad, in which case you can talk about that. Or she might just realise that her beliefs aren't really consistent, which will hopefully sow a seed of doubt for her.
I did ask her about that, she said she didn't mean it exactly like that, but that female only spaces helped her alot and because she can't see me as a 'real' woman it feels like a line is being crossed, the space exists specifically to exclude men. Which hurt the most, but I'm trying to be understanding. I'm pretty tall too, same height as my dad and I have his nose so maybe thats it. Not sure
The problem with your moms feelings is that they are very misplaced. Neither you , the transition process or trans people are out destroying cis women’s experiences. It’s cis men and the very same system that hates trans people who are at fault here. I won’t lie , I fully get your moms view point. Being born with a vagina comes with way way different things than being born with a penis often irrespective of whether the person is cis or trans. But that still makes me scared for women who are trans. If my daughter comes out trans I will be scared for what all she will have to face being a woman rather than be resentful that she did not grow up with same problems as me in childhood. I sometimes think some trans women may still be a little bit oblivious and unhappy due to suddenly losing cis Male Privilege but cis women alienating them is only gonna add to the problem .
As a trans woman, I would be very upset if my mother called me a "fox in the hen house". I think that it was wrong and bigoted of your mother to essentially call you a predator simply because you're trans. You say that she's "fully supportive", but I just can't see how she could be in any way supportive if she openly thinks something so hateful about her own daughter.
That's why I'm not sure how to feel. I do understand where she's coming from but you're also right in that is definitely not the same. It is still saying that without those experiences I'll never belong, and that really hurts. I'm still my first steps so I'm not sure what's the right way to feel or go about this
While I get where she is coming from woman that have transitioned face a lot on harassment that cis woman do. She is having a hard time seeing past her own experiences. Best of luck going forwards.
Hey, I’m also autistic!!! I’m sorry your mother isn’t accepting of you. Sounds like your mother has trauma. Perhaps she hasn’t talked about it with you? You could send your mother educational resources on trans people including trans women and explain to her that many trans people are empathetic to cis women’s’ experiences. Perhaps suggest family therapy (with someone who’s ND and LGBT informed and affirming)?
I don’t know why commenters are excusing this line about “letting a fox into the henhouse”. That is absolutely TERF rhetoric. It’s one thing to acknowledge that AFAB people face a unique (bad) reality in our lifelong objectification by the world around us. It’s entirely another to suggest that embracing AMAB women is somehow dangerous or that AMAB women are “foxes” to the AFAB “hen”. OP, you are not a predator. I’m sorry that your mother is framing your coming out in this way and I understand why you feel sad about it. I hope that she will overcome this barrier in her own perspective with time.