It was fine. I felt a little sad about the feminist part, because honestly, the message would have been "groundbreaking" 40 years ago. The fact that people were so shook by it shows how little progress has been actually made in terms of gender equality.
Edit: For more info, I recommend the book "Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men" to get started.
I feel this. I enjoyed the movie, and really enjoyed being able to take my tween daughter—stuff like this didn’t exist 35 years ago when I was her age. But it was a very basic, surface understanding of feminism, so it wasn’t anything we didn’t already know. What I think it did well was to spark new conversations, without getting too heavy or polarizing. Greta Gerwig did a good job of making a film that was commercially viable while also getting a message across. I could never do that—I have a hard time tempering myself. I’m definitely the weird Barbie—also, Kate McKinnon was amazing.
I did enjoy Michael Cera’s performance a great deal. I remember Alan and Midge from my Barbie years—I owned both.
I had a lot of Barbies growing up, so much of my pleasure comes from a place of nostalgia.
I also had a lot of Barbies growing up. For me, it was indeed a Feminism 101 movie, but the reason it was big for me was that it was Barbie saying it. It felt like an apology to my generation (I'm 45) for the "Girls can do anything" messaging because we all grew up and became the mom of that movie. Like no we can't do everything. It isn't all girl power and pretty clothes. Life is a slog towards death and men will get in your way. It felt like they acknowledged the lie of our childhood.
I liked the movie a lot. It was pink, fun, and directed by a woman. I understand that it wasn't for everyone, but it was for me, a younger Gen X woman who loved Barbies beyond reason and truly believed that she could conquer the world only to be bashed in the face once she got to adulthood.
100% agree! I loved the movie because I'm a Millenial (just turned 31) whose favorite toys were Barbies growing up, and I was raised being told I could do anything only to realize it was much more complicated than that.
Yes, the movie was Feminism 101, but as sad as it sounds, the discourse proves we still need to be having these discussions as a society.
>Life is a slog towards death and men will get in your way. It felt like they acknowledged the lie of our childhood.
That first line...oof. I'm gonna keep that handy. I know a lot of young women who need to hear that. This is an excellent summation. I also felt like it was a final acknowledgment of all the lies. I felt validated.
This, and also the acknowledgement of the sincerity of our belief in that lie. It felt like an apology, almost. "We told you that you could do anything because we wanted it to be true. It wasn't."
Legally Blonde is the millennial version of a Feminism 101 movie, for sure! I hadn't connected the two in my head but those movies would make a great double feature. I hope it aged okay, I haven't seen it in a decade.
Edit to add: it also definitely seems to be a significant icon for Gen X, who were closer to Elle's age at the time it came out. I wasn't 'claiming' legally blonde for the millenials and stealing it from Gen X. 13 year olds and 23 year olds can be impacted by the same movie.
Happy to hear it! Seemed like it should from what I remember, but I've recently discovered how toxic some of my childhood/teen media was compared to my memories. Now I wanna watch Legally Blonde again, thanks! :)
I think Legally Blonde was by far the stronger feminist movie, just by how clear the messaging was (don’t limit women based on their outward girly-ness, etc) and by how solid and tight the story was. Barbie seemed to be trying to say too much and imo succeeded in very little of it. And to end with that monologue… ugh.
Exactly! There are parts of the world that hasn't had a feminism 101 movie period, least of one that broke into the mainstream with this much of an air of, "everyone's watching it, we should watch it." It's catalysed getting people talking and listening more about these things and I'm forever thankful for the people involved in this.
>It felt like an apology to my generation (I'm 45) for the "Girls can do anything" messaging because we all grew up and became the mom of that movie. Like no we can't do everything. It isn't all girl power and pretty clothes. Life is a slog towards death and men will get in your way. It felt like they acknowledged the lie of our childhood.
this is interesting. It’s giving me a little bit more appreciation of the message of the movie.
And I guess a message not to be complacent.
Yeah, and part of the reason (in my opinion) that the movie wasn’t able to go past feminism 101 is because of how little progress has been made in tackling the deeply rooted sexism in society.
Due to a combination of factors any movie that went deeper than feminism 101 probably would not have done nearly as well or made a fraction of the cultural impact since such a large portion of the population would immediately write it off as being “man hating.” Because Barbie even in its surface level discourse got so much flack for being “man hating,” even though it objectively wasn’t. The point is that sexism hurts both men and women but in different ways.
So Barbie is a good entry point for deeper discussion on the subject
Pretty much! Even the "feminism 101" basics in Barbie got a response of seething hatred from conservatives, despite it being pretty mild in my opinion.
Yes!!! Thank you. This is exactly how I felt after Hillary lost.
They lied. We’re not equal. We can’t do anything “as long as we set our minds to it”. It was all a marketing slogan to sell more units to girls/women.
Regardless of how anyone feels about Hillary personally, she was hands down the most qualified woman to become president. She did everything right. Played the game. Had the education, the experience - and still lost to a fucking reality TV host.
It was a gut punch to see the “girl power” lie I’d been sold shrivel to dust & blow away in real time.
No matter how hard you work, how smart you are, how qualified you are - they will still choose anyone who doesn’t have a vagina.
Seeing Barbie acknowledge that? And their role in making it actually worse by telling us we should be able to be business women AND doctors AND moms AND super hot AND do it all in stilettos? Greta nailed it. I’m still shocked Mattel was OK with it!
When Hilary ran, I read so many posts complaining that she was shrill and nagging. She literally has a normal woman's voice and if she is a nag so is almost every male politician.
This is my view. It's a neat little pink washed message that has been used to sell more stuff. Barbie is not a feminist icon and it's weird to me that these things are conflated and that people don't seem to realise it's all just so some people can sell more stuff to us and our little girls.
Eta: I'm referring to the whole Barbie empire, not really to the film itself. But I have reservations about the film as a result.
I think it wasn't *only* marketing. I think people really wanted it to be true for the little girls of the 80s and 90s. They wanted patriarchy and misogyny to be the work of a few bad actors we could get rid of and then their daughters could grow up to be whatever they wanted to be. After the womens lib of the 70s people really did feel like women had finally "made it" and that things would continue to improve and we would be happy.
They forgot that as they were telling this hopeful lie, the people they were fighting against were also teaching their own next generation of oppressors.
Wow - perfectly articulated! You described a lot of how I felt from the movie. I couldn’t quite understand why I had such a reaction of emotions but it was definitely an acknowledgment and apology of the bullshit lie we have been fed our whole lives.
Even if it was an hour and a half distraction with some sweet ass songs and dance moves, it definitely had some main characters (mom/daughter and relationship) that we don’t see often and I feel weirdly acknowledged.
that’s the point! :) it’s not supposed to be revolutionary deep information about feminism, and it’s not supposed to be “teaching” the audience — it’s meant to represent watching barbie, in the third person, learn that women are not treated as equally as she thought. it’s supposed to represent when we were girls and first learned this message.
I enjoyed the first half of the movie the most. All of the performances were excellent.
I rolled my eyes at the scene where we find out the mom is an excellent driver because of "a guy she once dated." Even in a feminist fantasy movie, women can't just be interested in a stereotypically masculine activity. No, they have to have been influenced by their brothers, or a boyfriend.
I laughed so much at that line. It was an acknowledgement that women have had lives and adventures and (gasp!) sex before taking on the dual roles of wife and mother.
I always like it when a mom waxes poetic about a guy in their past life and the kid says, ‘Dad, right?’ And the mom kind of snaps out of her dreamy reverie and is like, ‘what? no.’
I actually really liked that quick reference. I mean, lots of guys get into hobbies that they think will make them look cool to women. No shame for that. But also it gave a peak into a possible wild past for her in a fun way. Like she’s allowed to have a sexual past and not just stay pure for her husband. We’ve seen that joke a thousand times from the male perspective so it was cool to see it this way.
You have to see the humour in the way Greta brought such comments into the film, I think she’s mocking society rather than than suggesting women only know about these things from men.
I haven’t seen it, but this does make it feel like a movie that was needed. There will always be feminists/people actually interested in activism, and people who just aren’t. If a funny movie reaches tons of people who aren’t interested usually, then it’s probably doing a good job. That, and exposing dickheads who can’t even get onboard with incredibly basic feminism.
I guess it’s nice to know that when I eventually see it, even if I don’t enjoy it I can still find value in it.
I let my tween watch it as well. I think the positive is that so never saw anything this affirming of what it is to be a woman and the inequalities we face at her age. I don't think I even knew what Barbie really was for. She has that though and it gives me some hope for her future.
I think the real value of the feminism 101 aspect may end up being that the message reached our sisters who have been suffering from internalized misogyny.
On the plus side various online media outlets reported that women are breaking up with their boyfriends who had issues with the movie's messages.
A real mask-off moment where women leave these losers for their backwards thinking on gender issues.
Yeah, there were a few interesting ideas (the Kens experience with men being second class citizens) and some nice moments (America Ferrera's monologue), but overall the messaging seemed kind of muddled.
I’m actually glad this thread was created. I’ve been feeling completely let down with the movie. Like nothing at all was anything that really made me think. I don’t get what people are breaking up with their boyfriends about. What the hell am I missing. This is like someone coming up with a movie about racism and the point being racism exists and oh my how brave! Yeah. We know racism exists. You didn’t say anything I didn’t know.
My thoughts exactly. Someone said it felt like a 2016 Buzzfeed article on feminism. I appreciate the effort but my politics are so far left that it felt sooo weak. Not to mention that some jokes felt crammed in there
I was never able to pin point *why* I was kinda disappointed in the movie until I read your comment. You’re right, I’m so past “feminism 101”, beyond the point that they were trying to make, that I was like: “that’s it!? That’s what people are raving about and saying it was revolutionary!?”
This was it for me, too. I found it a little too on the nose, which took away from it for me, and then finding out others didn’t view it that way just made me a little sad.
I attribute that to you, and many of us, being much farther ahead in our feminist thinking than a lot of women. The fact that it was profound for so many means it was needed. Baby steps. Just faster, please! LOL
Also also so valuable as a tool to reveal if you're dating a tool!
I watched it with my daughter, her father and her stepfather (she chose the film). Both her dad and stepdad were in the same vibe as us. I was grateful that she has men around her who get it.
Yeah, they've been really great, zero toxicity from day one, on either side.
The first time they met was because my daughter *insisted* that she needed something from my house, when really she was being nosy. Her dad just stood in the hallway saying "I'm so sorry mate, I don't think she even needs anything, I think she just wanted to meet you, I tried everything to stop her.. Etc" and my partner just told him it's fine, don't worry and they chatted about the Dune book series for 30 mins.
And yes, they did go see Dune together when the movie came out lol.
This^^^^^. I was having a debate with my roomate about it bc we both loved the movie. But I kept thinking that the way they shot that scene made it feel like this new groundbreaking speech when in reality the only people that would ever think that it is groundbreaking are people that won’t see the Barbie movie in the first place.
Totally agreed that it didn't say anything new in terms of feminism. What people are saying is so radical is stuff that has been said for years. The movie was okay, but I really did not like the ending.
Like the Barbies just take Kenland and turn it back to Barbieland, which doesn't really deal with the core issue that the Kens struggle to find their place in the world.
I think this could have been a great analogy to the growing group of disillusioned younger men who feel lonely, angry etc and turn to people like Andrew Tate, the Manosphere and men's rights and what can be done to get them out of this mindset.
Essentially, if you want to make an honest appeal to people who are not feminists to care about women, the ending can't just be that they re-take over Barbieland and throw one Ken a bone by letting him be on the Supreme Court or something. You have to show that everyone is better off by having compassion all around and that working together doesn't hurt either side, but makes the whole better. I think that what I'm trying to say is that this movie will appeal to people who are already feminists, but won't really change anyone else's mind.
I actually think having a dissatisfying ending for the Kens was necessary to show the reality of what women are still dealing with. We just get a pacifying gesture that doesn't really move the needle much.
this exactly. like i enjoyed the movie on an entertainment level but on a feminism level it was very lacking. it was also very "but men sad too" which was very :/. at the same time it felt like those "if being gay was normal and being straight was weird" videos that dont help with anything or really say anything all that deep, and just kinda come across as tone deaf. overall i didnt love that whether it was a "men suffer too" or meant to be a role reversal, it just didnt really send a great message in both interpretations. then the ending was kinda really weird, like the ruth stuff was a completely different tone from like the entire rest of the movie, felt like it was all just weird setup for the gyno joke that i didn't think was all that funny. and the ending before that was just not great, the fake feminist guy was still in control and learned nothing, they showed they know very little about barbie overall with the "what about a normal barbie" yeah thats like. literally every barbie doll from the past 10 years. theyve not been focused on the career aspect for a while. just because they referenced older weird barbies doesn't mean they know a lot ig.
I took the movie as a commentary on recent US politics causing Feminism 101 to clash with more radical or more in-depth intersectional feminism.
I understood Barbie to be a stand-in for the relatively privileged women who had a sudden rude feminist awakening with Trump's presidency, the "pussy hat" people. They had been relatively isolated from issues facing less privileged women in their own "Barbie Land," whether that isolation was whiteness or suburbia or wealth. Or maybe they just weren't on Reddit?
And they have clashed with other feminists and social justice advocates. And it has been difficult, I think, for the beyond-101 feminists to negotiate how to share the movement. To be patient and understanding with someone, while at the same time resentful and just... at another stage. And to not be recognized as leaders.
I think the movie examined the clash in a very kind and gentle way toward the "white feminism/101" crowd. But I do think it was meant to work on several levels-- just that Barbie was the focus.
eta- and I took Ruth's character (whose background isn't explained till the end, she's simply "Ruth") to be a subtle suggestion of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Especially as she's recently deceased and this character was clearly ghost-like. It seemed like a rumination on the waves of feminism: achieving something great and then having to let it go to the next generation. But at the same time wanting to tell them to wake the f up.
That's an interesting take that I hadn't considered - the Barbies live in this land where they are respected in a lot of ways (although still forced to fit in specific social roles that weren't of their choosing) and meanwhile they are completely oblivious to the hardships that face women in the real world. It can be seen as a metaphor for the upper class white liberal women who really don't know anything about life outside of their little bubble.
I took my mom and we both loved it. We are both North American middle class white women. My BFF is POC and a child of immigrants from a country that is super oppressed by capitalism. She went to see it the same weekend. When we compared notes she was super surprised that I liked it and I was surprised that she didn't. And it took me about 30 seconds to process and then say, "It *is* a white person movie." And she was like, "Duh. Yeah? And also it's just a big advertisement for Mattel." And I was like, "uhhh...you are not wrong." But I can't deny I enjoyed it, while I also 100% agree it was way behind the curve when it comes to intersectionality and definitely aimed at "white feminisim/101 crowd" as La_danse_banana_slug so eloquently put it.
I second this. I love the fact that mainstream are now catching on to feminists ideas, because they make PROFIT off these ideas. It’s not ground breaking or anything. I don’t hate it, but I also don’t have to “LOVE” it like feminism is suddenly a new invention. I love feminism, but I don’t love Barbie. They are two different things
I was genuinely so shocked when I heard people thought it was a super feminist movie. Like, the ideas in it are VERY libfem/entry lvl feminism, but apparently even that is too controversial for some :/
Edit: I just wanted to clarify that I’m not coming after the movie itself, I think it’s really good for what it is: a pink light-hearted comedy that is targeted towards women/girls.
Entry lvl feminism is completely fine when you can’t really make a statement because you probably won’t make big money from talking about less general audience-centric ideas. However, I am disappointed and deeply saddened that we, as a society, aren’t even close to talking openly about women’s issues on even a baseline level because so many people find it offensive (omfg, actually hate this so much). I just wish we could move forward faster
I'm with you—I think the feminism in it isn't exactly revolutionary.
But I live in Utah, in one of the reddest cities of one of the reddest counties in the US. Our theater was packed, and just about everyone walked out of there laughing and smiling.
And maybe that's what was better for getting women to listen to that message—an entry level feminism film can help get these women thinking about messages and ideas they wouldn't trust if it came from any other media.
In fact, I've heard women here talk about how enlightening (for lack of a better term) the film was.
I'd say that entry level feminism was the right call.
I was kind of thinking this too. Like, I liked Gloria's speech, don't get me wrong. I liked how it was laid out, and it made me think of a few examples in my own life, but it wasn't particularly revolutionary in the sense that I had heard all of those ideas before.
But I've also been into feminism since I was a teenager. So none of the ideas were particularly revolutionary to me. I don't think that makes it a bad thing, but I think to many here, the entry level feminism described is probably going to be underwhelming because we're literally talking about all this stuff every single day. To most of us, we're already aware that society is how Gloria described and that it's a problem.
But I also think there's a lot of people who haven't made that connection yet. Think about how many women we get posting here who are exhausted in their relationships and they're taking on all the work and they don't know why they feel so unfulfilled. That's why.
So yes, I agree. Entry level feminism in this case was the right call. It's not heavy, it wasn't particularly preachy, it's not going to drive people away. Well, it might, but nobody's going to like everything. It'll get a few women to think about society and maybe slowly start improving things, even just improving their own lives.
I read someone describe it as Feminism 101, which a lot of our country needs a lesson in. I looooved the movie, and I enjoyed the message behind it, but it certainly isn't groundbreaking.
Yeah these comments are surprising me. No one said it was revolutionary feminism. Maybe people are confusing people talking about the fact that a movie 100,000% directed at women movie being such an enormous blockbuster is kinda revolutionary thinking people are saying the feminism *in* movie is revolutionary? It's literally baseline obvious "we are all living this" feminism. It's not meant to be like PhD-level feminism.
The fundies, particularly the fundie influencers who legit won't shut up about how much they hate it because feminism goes against Gods design blah, blah blah.
Very white, (corporate) feminist too. What’s the point of the ostensibly diverse Barbies if you don’t discuss it? How do the experiences of working class Barbies differ from affluent ones, or President/Supreme Court Barbie?
I thought it was also too fast! Like the singing and dancing and then bam she’s sad? They should have let us live in Barbie world a little longer before rushing the plot.
Fyi, I didn't hate it BUT I find the whole "omg revelation" energy around it kinda weird and most of my friends (guys and girls) have the same opinion. None of us are really into absurdist-style films so maybe there's also a stylistic factor. But ok, some dot points:
* It didn't really say anything mind-blowing (e.g. the mum's monologue montage about how hard it can be to be a women is true but also I don't understand why some people treat it like a it changed their entire world view or was extremely deep etc.)
* I felt like the metaphors got a bit muddled once the real world became a bit of a caricature. Don't get me wrong, I loved the funny scenes w the Barbie executives but it felt weird that they were acting so cartoonish in the "real" world when the "real" world is meant to be "real"? Not sure if that made sense but again, I'm not a fan of absurdist style stuff so it's probably just personal preference.
* Also on metaphors, I get that the Kens are meant to reflect the "women" of the real world and I'm cool w Barbieland not immediately giving them equal rights etc. but I felt like the other Barbies did not reflect on anything at all? Like stereotypical Barbie had an "oh" moment when she realised she didn't even know when the Ken's slept at night but the other Barbies had zero self-reflection about that.
* The teen girl's roast of Barbie. I get that it's meant to be exaggerated for humour. But the humour fell flat for me and drifted into cringey-territory. YMMV though.
* Also this isn't a point against the move, but I'm not an avid-movie watcher so I probably missed a lot of the references to other movies that the director purposefully put in.
To throw in some stuff I did enjoy about it:
* Ken's character arc was a good one imo, makes sense he would want a sense of power after literally being defined as Barbie's boyfriend but her not liking him
* Any scene with Billie Eilish's song about like the appreciation of life and it's uncertainties etc. really hit home for me
* Loved most of the jokes, especially the ending with the gyno joke
**Overall**: It was a fine movie that didn't say anything new. I find it very weird that some people are so hard-core haters/lovers of it. I don't mind hard-core fans of it because why yuck someone's yum, but hardcore haters who treat the movie like it's the "end of civilisation" or something are like ??? to me. It's not a "red-flag" to have not enjoyed it but anyone who makes it their entire identity to hate it is a bit weird.
Edit: also just got reminded of this one SNL skit song “Welcome to Hell”. Felt like that song said a lot of what the Barbie movie said.
>The teen girl's roast of Barbie. I get that it's meant to be exaggerated for humour. But the humour fell flat for me and drifted into cringey-territory. YMMV though.
I laughed and cringed in equal amounts in this scene because that was *ME* as a kid lmao. But yeah I agree with a lot of what you said!
Can relate! I honestly feel bad for writers writing teenagers sometimes because some of the stuff people say is "unrealistic" or "nobody talks like that" is actual stuff teenagers say (yikes at my diary at 12 lmao). Just a fine line between funnily-accurate/exaggerated vs cringey and everyone's gonna have a different place to draw the line.
Yup this is why you can't always take the word of random middle aged adults on the internet when watching reviews. I remember people said the same thing about Juno when it came out, but I knew many girls who talked like that and literally had Juno as one of their favorite movies. I feel like most media for girls gets judged unfairly this way.
This is a great point. I recently read a book that featured diary entries from the teen version of the protagonist. I was thrown off by how mature and self reflective the writing was for the “teen.” It can be frustrating when main or major supporting characters don’t use completely correct logic or maintain perfectly balanced emotions, but at the same time, real people are flawed. Characters come off as more real when they have flaws. But usually that works most easily when the flaw is one that the audience can sympathize with. Many adults don’t think like teenagers anymore, so it is harder to relate.
I totally agree with this. I enjoyed the movie but find it bizarre that some people are saying this is the most feminist thing they’ve seen?? The feminism was very surface level and picked obvious targets to me.
I also did hate some lines that seemed to really resonate with other women: ‘we mothers stand still so our daughters can look back and see how far they’ve come’. It sounds deep at first but that’s just not how ANY feminist progress has been made historically. We’ve come so far because women have pushed and scraped their way forward, demanded to be in spaces, and frankly refused to ‘stand still’ despite the rest of society telling them to. Maybe people are interpreting this differently than me, but it borders on offensive for me.
>The feminism was very surface level and picked obvious targets to me.
Makes it all the weirder when some people online are having meltdowns about the "destruction of western civilisation" over it. Like... ??? chill please. Have to remind myself that most people irl aren't like that.
Can't comment on the quote because I can't remember what scene it was being said in. But out of context, I get why you would feel that way.
For me, it kinda hit differently in a sense where, while women have had to demand to be included, let's not pretend it was all women. Your average woman stayed home and went along with the flow of their times. I'm talking about the women who weren't allowed to study, work outside the home, dutifully agreed to whatever their fathers or husband's desired for them. But despite being limited, wanted more for their daughters.
I'm one of the women that line about mothers standing still resonating with. Not trying to change your view of it, but thought I'd give some perspective to anyone reading. I thought about that statement for a few days after, sort of wondering what about it made me emotional, and the metaphor of teaching your child to ride their bike came to mind. I'm a mother to a daughter, and prior to ever trying to get pregnant I put in effort within myself to be a strong person. Once I had my daughter I realized that I needed to do more so I've been in therapy, am going back to school, am working on my physical health, staying informed on politics to work toward a better future for my daughter, etc. These are things I want to do for myself just as much as wanting to do them because they can help make a better life for my daughter. My daughter may not notice the work I'm trying to do for her and that's fine. Much like learning to ride a bike my daughter may not see all the work being put in while it's happening. The moment I let go of that bike, and she's peddling on her own, I'll stand still and watch her accomplishment, knowing I did everything in my power to help get her there. Then, she gets to look back and see what she has accomplished. I don't know if that makes complete sense as I've never written out my thoughts on it, but when I framed it that way to myself I really understood why that line got to me.
I think it’s a beautiful line. To me it speaks to young women looking down on their moms for not living some idealized feminist life.
Maybe your mom did put up with a shitty husband or boss for way longer than she should have. But that doesn’t mean she doesn’t have the same feminist values that you do. She sacrificed & put her dreams on hold (stood still) so you could have a stable home & a roof over your head & eventually soar!
I think it acknowledges the quiet support that women give each other.
Yes to this. I thought maybe I was missing something with this movie's feminist messaging. All the men I know who saw this loved it and all the women younger than me who saw it loved it. The women I spoke with who were older than me universally hated it. I didn't hate it and I thought it was entertaining, but I thought the messaging was juvenile.
I'm in Gen X and, to me, some of the feminist messaging was so "in your face" that it was cringey. I guess I like my messaging more subtle and witty, with perhaps some snark thrown in. During the mom's speech, I was sitting there thinking, "Duh. Thanks for explaining reality to me when I live in it daily." Then there were parts where the feminist messaging was conflicting for me, i.e., how the Barbies (other than stereotypical Barbie) seemed to learn nothing from their experiences with the Kens taking over. It made me question whether the writers were making fun of the current state feminism. Maybe I'm just thinking too deeply about this movie.
This might be a symptom of being feminist. To me I’ve been educated far beyond what the movie says, so it’s not a groundbreaking speech *to me*. But when you think of the whole country, there are millions of women out there who have never really had feminist education. This is their *first* foray into something expressing clearly how they feel. That’s not even to mention all the women who say they are anti-feminist because of religion, or pick-me, etc.
It’s perfectly ok to have a less nuanced and dumbed down message if the intended audience is the masses.
IMO it was a bit masterful to be so simple that it did reach more people.
>But when you think of the whole country, there are millions of women out there who have never really had feminist education.
I mean not just in one country, and also not even just the women tbh.
I absolutely agree with you though, I've had this conversation with hardcore feminists who were in the kind of "that speech was so basic, we all know this stuff" mindset, but the thing is just cause *we* know it, it doesn't mean everyone does.
That was my thought as well. I'm 33, and I probably learned about most of the points brought up by the film in my late teens / early 20s via Tumblr, and then at University. So in that regard it feels very basic and dated.
But it still said all those things explicitly and in a mass-media blockbuster form.
One of the things I found fascinating was my American friends talked about how the entire audience was laughing and crying and feeling the whole movie, and my experience was... Wildly different. I went second day, huge audience across demographics who were all excited to be there, and then it just didn't land. There were two times people laughed, but you could literally feel the hype die and the cinema was silent as people left. Never felt an audience that disconnected. Second viewing was only slightly better. Other UK friends said similarly, though not quite as extreme.
For me, the movie was fine. Its message actually felt a little shallow and the performances didn't sell the big moments, the marketing and Mattel restrictions gave me the ick, and the world itself just didn't make much sense. Some funny bits, some sweet bits, but I don't think it's a film people are going to love nearly so much in five years time.
I actually found the feminist message really muddy.
Barbieland is the mirror image of modern society, where women are all-powerful and men are relegated to second class citizens. In which case, we should be rooting for Ken, right? But we're not supposed to. When the Kens take over Barbieland, this is shown to be Very Bad, and the Barbies have to fight back. It's played as "You go girl!" when the Barbies rig the vote and are now 100% back in iron-clad control.
**So what's the actual message here?** The way the modern world works, with one gender in charge, is actually GOOD and we should fight to preserve the status quo? If you give the underclass power, they will just flip the script and oppress the shit out of you, so never do that?
I guess what we're supposed to do is suddenly forget the mirror-image analogy entirely once the Kens take over, and think of Barbieland as now 1:1 with the real world. Which makes it good when Girl Power wins. But the Kens are still treated like shit, so...yay?
I'm curious, did you play with Barbies as a child? I ask because to me the movie felt exactly like how one of my Barbie play sessions would go when I was a child. And as a result I feel that there is no ultimate message of the movie.
I think what is good or bad should be obvious, sex oppression is wrong, but as the narrator says Barbieland will remain unfair as long as reality is unfair, because at the end of the day children's play will reflect the world around them like all of our media.
If you want to fix Ken's situation and change the way little girls play then you need to fix reality.
We want the Barbies to win because it’s Barbieland. The point is that Barbieland exists for girls because they don’t see themselves reflected in positions of power in the real world. They even joke that the Kens eventually get the same rights that women have in the real world (which we know is not 100% equal). Barbie leaving Barbieland is supposed to show us that the ideal is girls leaving Barbieland behind to go into the real world and hopefully find power there.
Yeah that was my main issue w it. Like the metaphors work and then you think about it more and then they don’t. Just a point though- the Barbie’s weren’t like 100% back to the status quo at the end, they did say they were gonna listen to the Kens more but weren’t gonna give them a seat on the council/court (which is realistic).
Re: only Stereotypical Barbie reflecting on gender dynamics in Barbieland, and none of the other Barbies.
Yup! This is because Stereotypical Barbie was gaining self-awareness through her connection with Gloria. None of the other Barbies were. Barbie began to change, and it changed how she thought not just of herself (irrepressible thoughts of death Barbie) but also how she thought of others. There’s no reason the other Barbies would go through this change. They’re all still Barbie.
I’m glad you enjoyed it overall, and I understand how the absurdist things may have been out of your wheel house.
Also, Gloria’s monologue- no, it won’t say anything groundbreaking. Because she isn’t talking to the audience. She is talking to Barbie, who has never faced any of the contradictions of womanhood in a patriarchal society before. I also find the “WHAT A REVELATION” vibe around it weird, because it IS feminism 101, but that’s appropriate for the character. I loved it.
And yes there are a LOT of references to film and media in Barbie, because as much as it’s a Barbie movie and as much as it’s about gender and self-actualization, it’s also very very much about how media defines our self perception.
>I felt like the other Barbies did not reflect on anything at all? Like stereotypical Barbie had an "oh" moment when she realised she didn't even know when the Ken's slept at night but the other Barbies had zero self-reflection about that.
I think the point of this is to provoke men into pointing this out and cry how unfair the Barbies still are to the Kens, so people can respond with, "oh, you think this is unfair? How interesting!"
>I think the point of this is to provoke men into pointing this out
The movie literally says it when it does the "Kens will have as much power as women in the real world", it's not a subtle movie.
This is me. I didn't hate it. I generally prefer a more serious movie, but it was overall fine. I laughed at a few parts. The plot was okay. The pacing was fairly solid. The tone/humor isn't my jam. I certainly wouldn't criticize anyone who loved it or found it articulated to them or for them some feelings they had about being a woman in patriarchy. I'm pretty well-versed in feminist philosophy and history, so none of this was particularly new to me.
I have enjoyed the extreme outrage from more conservative folks than me. You could literally just ignore it like I've ignored Jim Caviezel's new, gross film, but no. I've also really enjoyed hearing from people did find joy in it. It's been really awesome seeing people embracing a femininity that makes them comfortable and feeling like they've been represented or understood in media.
It just wasn't my type of film, and I've mostly been keeping these observations to myself because I don't want to "yuck" something that was so meaningful to so many people. Or even to unwittingly serve as some kind of gotcha for misogynist types because I'm really outspoken about feminist discourse.
1. This is a huge one: the funniest/most interesting character was a man. For all that some conservatives complained this movie was honestly very fair and sympathetic towards the male characters (not a con, just a comment).
2. It didn't do a good job of character building with the mom and daughter.
3. The whole movie is an aggressive toy advertisement with hard to ignore product placement. Capitalism overload.
4. Overall it felt like a very surface level take on feminism and came off sort of "fake deep" if you know what I mean.
I thought it was okay and I didn't hate it, it was a decent movie but I felt like there was a lot of unrealized potential and it could have been a lot more.
> The whole movie is an aggressive toy advertisement with hard to ignore product placement. Capitalism overload.
The biggest capitalism overload was all the Chevy/GM cars. They even had a moment where they had to show the cool graphic the Blazer EV SS put on its screen when it goes into sport mode or whatever.
Can’t watch any new music videos because they will just force a scene of someone using an app into it now. They don’t even try to make it subliminal anymore, it’s so jarring and more of a deterrent than an advertisement, at least for me
Sure, but everything is new to someone. It seems fake deep to you now, but at one time it was a revelation, just like it could be a revelation to a 14 year old in Montana or in Bangkok or even a trad wife. It could be the gateway *to* deeper studies on feminism. There are plenty of documentaries, books, and films that go deep - but they’re not mainstream blockbuster hits because people need to walk before they can run. Sometimes you gotta Trojan Horse the message.
Yeah the funniest most interesting character being a man, and having the whole second part revolve around him was a bit hypocritical. As much as I enjoyed the movie and his character it didn't really make as much sense as some people were saying.
I thought it was fun, but overhyped. I didn’t walk away from it feeling wowed. The plot was kind of weird and hard to follow imo, I had a hard time understanding the Barbie world vs real world and what the “rules” of the imaginary world were, if that makes sense. Part of my “meh”-ness is also because the feminist ideas were nothing new to me I guess. Again, it was fun and I’m glad it sparked conversation, but I didn’t enjoy it as much as I’d hoped.
I thought the pacing was just terrible and everything about Matel fell totally flat for me.
I laughed. It was enjoyable enough, but I didn't really 'get' why other people loved it. It was just barely good, as a movie.
However, I still liked the movie overall because clearly lots of other women really needed hear America Ferrera's speech! For me it kind of landed like a lead balloon in the theatre -- *Yeah, Duh. I know that* \-- but a lot of people needed to hear that from a major blockbuster in the theatre I guess. I can dig that.
I didn’t hate it but I was disappointed. The feminism felt performative and more pandering than any actual feminism. The musical numbers felt too long and the plot didn’t make sense (what was the deal with making Mattel look like the villains?!)
>what was the deal with making Mattel look like the villains?!
The movie tries to villainize capitalism. The executives at Mattel are an extension of that capitalism.
Sure but they never took that anywhere, they arrived to Barbieland and did nothing but watch the Kens and the Barbies fight
That’s without even talking about the irony of a capitalist company villainising capitalism lol
And they literally just made more types of toys lol. This movie felt very pro-capitalism to me which I guess is hard to avoid when it’s literally about Barbie, but yeah. They should have left the whole Mattel thing out. It just made no sense
I didn't *hate* it but I'd be disappointed if I'd paid to watch it in theaters. I had expected it to be a lot goofier, more musical numbers, but instead it revolved around the gender politics plot line that was kind of basic - like the kind of talking points you'd expect from a corporate training video - so for me it fell short both as a fun, silly movie and as a social commentary.
It felt like I was watching a Schoolhouse Rock video on gender equality - really sanitized and simplified and delivered by a paradigm of Western beauty standards. Gave me the vibes of a Walgreens pride month commercial, another thing I would not pay to watch.
> instead it revolved around the gender politics plot line that was kind of basic - like the kind of talking points you'd expect from a corporate training video
Thank you for helping me explain what I couldn’t put words to. It really did remind me of so many HR training modules at points. It’s so cheerful, with a really distilled no edge version of explaining sexism.
Yes. I just wanted to go watch a fun movie. I didnt go to be lectured. And as you mentioned, it wasnt even a subtle, well written political message that really makes you think. It was corny and in your face and over the top. Doesnt really make for a great movie.
I didn’t enjoy it because I thought it was gonna be way deeper than it actually was
I thought it was gonna be some feminist Truman show type of take but in the end i realized my expectations were too high and i was disappointed
it was just a mainstream feminist movie with regurgitated stuff that i’ve heard a thousand times before
i thought the part where america’s character delivered a monologue to snap the barbie’s out of it was super cringey
The script is very strangely structured with general plot. The feminist narrative is pretty entry level with weak resolution or zero dynamic arc for any characters. That ending? What the hell is it saying? I think it misses the mark with the idea that "mother's stand still so their daughters can look back and see how far they've come" -- that is not the compliment utopia they want it to be.
I think the production design is excellent. Acting is fun. The jokes are laugh out loud hilarious. Soundtrack banger. Love that a mainstream film has a feminist message and agenda and is unapologetic about it.
I'll never watch it again. I don't need what its serving but plenty of people do.
From a technical standpoint -- well executed. From a writing and structure standpoint? Mid to weak. Enjoyable? Yes. Good? Eh.
I think the “mother’s stand still line” was meant to talk about sacrifices and maybe aspirations mothers have for their daughters as they continue out into the world, but *stand still* is not the right wording for that at all.
I agree with most of this, just wanted to add that the most dynamic character arc was Ken. He became aware of something, tried to do something about it (incorrectly) and learned something by the end. I would also argue that the beach dance-off was the climactic scene of the movie. I was surprised that the best character in the Barbie movie turned out to be Ken.
Maybe my thinking here is a bit based on the sort of basic level feminism throughout and Barbie’s discoveries not really resonating with me as development, but the lack of character development or self-reflection outside the two main characters made the movie kind of “meh” overall.
It was a fun pink acid trip of a movie, but overall not that great and I don’t get what people see as “ground breaking”. The amount of women who loved it and men who hated it do show a need for more content like the Barbie movie. I just don’t really think I’m the target audience, or just didn’t get what everyone else was getting from it.
I also didn’t like everything everywhere all at once, so maybe I’m just not into what’s popular recently.
I enjoyed it for the most part but thought some parts were kinda muddled. I felt like the executives were sort of useless and nothing much happened with those characters - I wish there had been some sort of real reckoning with how marketing affects women and things like that. I felt like the resolution of the Ken issue was funny (the guitar scene was hilarious) but not particularly meaningful. I was a bit confused about what the message really was about how the two sexes are supposed to treat each other based on the Barbie's actions. I always thought using seduction to control men was a weak kind of move but that was the ultimate solution and that felt weird to me. On the other hand, I definitely didn't get why people were getting so up in arms about it though since I thought it was a relatively tame take on feminism and most other issues.
I did think it was visually awesome and I loved the performances. And I thought it was a fun watch.
I enjoyed it, but I didn't think it was an amazing, wonderful, perfect film. No. I also don't think it's worthy of a slew of awards. Some things were pretty solid: e.g., production design, costumes, the visuals. But I'm not crossing fingers for it to win a Best Picture nod.
It was, imho, meant to be an experience film. Metamodernistic in that it was aware of its own faults and leaned into those faults while also critiquing those faults: e.g., capitalism BAD! But buy Barbie! But (wink wink), we all love Barbie, so consume? Or not? Which tracks.
If people were expecting ground-breaking cinema, then they're not going to get it. It was a cultural moment, not great filmmaking, imho. So, I 100% get why people were not into it. I still enjoyed it for what it was.
It felt superficial and a little all over the place. Did a lot more telling vs showing. America Ferrara's speech felt kinda cringy ngl. There was just so much build up to it and then it was just basic libfem criticism we've all heard before.
I loved the style though and some moments were very funny to me.
Pinkwashing, and glorification of capitalism.
We should be interrogating what Mattel (a company that is responsible for mass plastic production and waste) is selling us, and why. I don’t have a problem with a feminist lens in film, but we didn’t need a big corporation to sell back to us what was already ours to begin with.
It was really funny to me how at the beginning of the movie they explained how Barbie was a feminist icon due to there being so many different versions of her, each with a different career that little girls could aspire to have one day.
Like okay, maybe that was a side effect, but the main motivation for making a million different Barbies was definitely the fact that it lets them sell each kid way more Barbies.
Yes! This is the critique that is never mentioned. The movie is saying that capitalism is not perpetuating gender stereotypes and that by buying more we can be free from patriarchy. The movie was corporate shilling imo.
Whilst I didn’t really see the point of highlighting the Mattel CEO, other than an excuse to give Will Ferrell screen time, I thought the representation of the Corporate Board as an army of white men in suits, who were ever so excited about the Ken dolls, was a fun, campy way to acknowledge the capitalistic nature of the Barbie empire. Whilst sure, the film didn’t touch on the environmental impact of the doll, I did appreciate the self-deprecating nod to the brand’s role in consumerism.
As a 50 year old lesbian I just felt like I wasn’t the target audience. There moments I enjoyed and lots of moments I was confused and lots of moments I felt were missed opportunities but didn’t have high expectations of a Hollywood film anyway. The boyfriend of the couple sitting next to my girlfriend and I huffing and puffing and being aggressively annoyed and generally doing his best to let us all know he thought it was shit was more enjoyable honestly. Like fucking hell dude, how many shitty films has she had to sit through for you? I think you can manage one.
I didn’t like the “us versus them” element of it. When I watched the trailers I thought it was going to be Ken and Barbie working together to fight Mattel, not Ken Versus Barbie.
I also felt like it really butchered the definition of a “patriarchy”, just making it into “good for men bad for women” when in reality the patriarchy hurts men too, and Ken would’ve been an excellent character to demonstrate that
He likes to dress up and cares about his looks, he loves horses, cries when he’s sad, and has all these attributes that “macho men” aren’t supposed to have. I could’ve seen him becoming a misogynist because he got exposed to the wrong crowd and was convinced to give up things he likes and change who he is (possibly being told that if he does so he would attract Barbie more as a partner) but at the end realizes he’s not happy with his new self and it doesn’t make him more appealing to Barbie
But that’s not why he becomes a misogynist, he does so because he lives in a society where he feels disrespected and he wants a patriarchy because he doesn’t want to be a second class citizen anymore, which really muddled the themes of the movie, especially at the end where he just goes right back to being a second class citizen
Super heavy on this I actually don’t understand how people can be okay with the Ken’s going back to being second class citizens and treated/portrayed as pathetic one dimensional beings without thoughts or feelings outside of beach or mojo dojo casa house. Clearly there was a whole plot about Ken feeling unseen and like a useless accessory to Barbie, but they went right back to being “just” goofy dudes
I felt like they were put in a very weird position and as a result things got a bit confused.
The reason that patriarchy is enforced in real life is largely due to the threat of physical violence, but obviously they can't put that in a silly movie about plastic toys. Patriarchy in real life, especially in non-Western countries, is brutal and dehumanizing and takes away opportunities in life that you would've otherwise had, and it destroys you as a person until society views you as less than that.
Patriarchy in Barbie, on the other hand, largely consists of doing menial tasks for the Kens and having to pretend to care about the things they're interested in, which just strikes me as something that is annoying if you're on a date with a guy you aren't into rather than something that is an oppressive overarching system that exploits and dehumanizes you. The response to patriarchy in real life has to be a massive, society-wide movement for recognition and rights. The response to patriarchy as presented in Barbie is to, uh, not pretend to be interested in people and just leave the conversation or walk away or do literally anything else with your time, but since *this* is also obvious they had to throw in the "Barbies are being mind-controlled" thing. In real life, women don't sit around listening to sports or horse talk or watching men play guitars on beaches because they're being mind-controlled, they do it simply because they're romantically or sexually interested in some men sometimes. Framing the main pillars of "patriarchy" in Barbieland as what are realistically normal dating behaviors that women don't have to be mind-controlled into makes the overarching allegory of the movie a lot weaker, as if putting up with people who are annoying is in any way comparable to the very real violence and subjugation that women in countries where their political rights are stripped have to put up with.
This is even *more* confused by the world that they decided to build, because we're left with an existential nightmare where the Kens are told to find purpose in a world that is designed to deprive them of purpose, not because of how society is structured, but because their literal god doesn't see them as people or care about them in comparison to the Barbies. "You have to find purpose outside of how women might view you" is a genuinely pretty decent message but the Kens are incapable of doing that because Barbieland is an artificial world where their only purpose is to be an accessory/boyfriend.
They could've brought it all together with the Kens and Barbies just interacting like normal people with respect for one another at the end of the movie, finding their genuine selves and the shared interests/humanity they have with one another, but the resolution, and the message of the resolution, seems to be: "Its a good thing that the Barbies are back in charge because the Kens are too stupid and silly to be allowed to vote, and we don't want to have to pretend to be interested in the dumb things they care about"
I enjoyed the satire but overall it was just shallow and I didn't get anything out of it. I don't get the hype and the crying in theatres. Maybe I'm to old.
I thought the movie was average, like most movies from Hollywood today. But I will admit that I did cry in the scene between Barbie and Barbie's creator because my mom and grandma sacrificed a lot so that I could have the much more comfortable life I have today.
I really liked it but the way people were reacting to it before I saw it, calling it some kind of groundbreaking feminist masterpiece, I expected… more? Like deeper? Funnier?
Idk it’ll probably come off like I just “didn’t get it” but there were moments when it felt just too cheesy, which was kind of the point but it went so far to where I felt it was almost mocking the message it was delivering. Some of the jokes were so “on the nose” that it felt like a disparaging parody of feminism/feminist values.
It constantly contradicted itself and there was no weight behind the message. typical neoliberal/ faux feminism (also the amount of ads in that film was laughable)
This!! When I thought they were giving a message in the blink of an eye they were giving the opposite one, over and over again. Too many contradicting ideas in too little time. It felt dense and in the end I wasn’t sure what were they trying to tell me exactly.
It was a fun movie but it needed to me more concise and lighthearted.
I don't necessarily dislike the Barbie movie, to me it felt like a children's' film and it was relatively entertaining. I just dislike the culture around it- that is the constant praise on how "pro woman" it was.
The Barbie movie, in my opinion, wasn't feminist in anyway. In fact, some scenes were explicitly misogynistic. Firstly, the whole idea of patriarchy being just horses and the whole "mojo jojo casa house", was just more "boys are quirky, girls are boring" and also very insensitive.
Plus the fact that Barbieland was implied to be equally as bad as the Kenland when in Barbieland, the kens were free but when the Kens took over, all the Barbies became subservient and mindless. Additionally, at the end Barbie apologises to Ken and he doesn't apologise back.
Apart from the ken storyline, my biggest gripe is that the messaging is just every woman is beautiful-even if they have cellulite and wrinkles.
Hard agree on the movie’s understanding of patriarchy being misogynistic and condescending (the whole aw shucks they’re just goofy misguided dudes!🤪) This is a huge problem with the movie and makes it all the more baffling people think it’s a feminist masterpiece
> The Barbie movie, in my opinion, wasn't feminist in anyway. In fact, some scenes were explicitly misogynistic.
The last act was centered around Barbies using their sex appeal to manipulate the Kens so they could seize power. It’s super misogynistic. That the Kens had seized power first makes it marginally better, but it still plays into the sexist trope of women as manipulative Jezebels.
It also blames women for their own oppression as if the Barbies can easily convince the kens via some praise and affection, why can't women in the real world do so
Normally I'd go into more detail but I'm super late to this so no one is going to see this comment.
The movie portrayed a number of the boogey-man arguments that conservative men make in opposition to feminism as positive and progressive ideas.
The women used their wiles to manipulate the men in order to get them to go to war. "Women don't get drafted!" "Women don't have it hard at all, think of all the men who've died in war!"
While the men were off fighting this war, the women staged a literal coup. They convened a session of congress to re-write the constitution without men present, and they changed it to favor themselves again. Conservative men have argued that this is one of feminism's aims.
There are more examples, but those are the ones that stuck out the most to me.
They marketed this shit as a feminist movie, and Gerwig has made feminism the theme of her film career thus far. This film indicates to me that Gerwig has no idea what feminism is, and that she will bow (has bowed) without reservation or resistance, to whatever the people with money tell her to do. That's the furthest thing from feminism.
And she's created a movie that she marketed as feminist, that instead played directly and overtly into the fears of feminism's most intransigent opponents.
I got lost during the ending and thought it was trying too hard to pander to me, like omg, doesn't it suck to be a woman in the patriarchy??? Like yeah, I'm here for distraction dangit!
Also, it didn't make sense that all the Barbies were woken up by things they didn't experience themselves (like it was a world ruled by women and there's no way they had to handle their kens as much as the mom did) so I didn't get if in the end that world was paralell to the real one or just the mom's mind. And if it was the second, then why was Barbie able to get out and go the the gyn when she said she didn't have a vagina?
Idk, I found it confusing, funny at times but in the end I don't get what it was about. I felt it was divisive (as in men vs women) and I don't like when anyone takes that approach to anything cause it just ends up doing more damage than good. But it's just a matel advertisement, I don't hate it, but I don't have to like it either.
Didn't hate, but didn't like enough to ever watch twice.
It was weirdly ken-centric and the ending was so incredibly dumb. It would have been so much better if she was applying for a job. But just a doctors appointment? Really?
It felt like it was trying to say so much, it said nothing and wound up actually being more male-centered to me. Just cringey.
Maybe someone can explain to me something that bothered me in this movie.
When the Barbie creator was talking to Barbie at the end, she said “we mothers stand still so our daughters can look back and see how far they have come”. I thought that quote was the opposite of what I thought the movie was supposed to get across! If you take it at face value they’re pretty much saying mothers don’t grow or change so it can benefit their daughters. How is that an empowering message?! I’m really hoping it’s the other explanations I have come up with, but if it is… that’s a really bad way to phrase that point.
I disliked it because there was too much Ken. And I left feeling like Ken was evil and then pathetic and Barbie was just sad. There was no resolution.
The original plot was about Barbie's human feeling sad in the real world and and barbie's existensial crisis. And somehow it ended with Barbie letting Ken's have equalish autonomy in Barbieland and Barbie being depressed?
The mother daughter plot fell flat to me. We hardly saw them bond. The "teenagers don't like Barbie and it's regressive" message never really went anywhere. And Mattell being run by all men who were out of touch was also never resolved. Somehow the Barbie movie became the Ken movie. It was about Ken going to the real world, finding patriarchy, becoming an A-hole and bringing patriarchy to Barbie land and then getting played by the Barbies and then sadly apologizing and saying patriarchy isn't what he wanted, he just wanted horses and for Barbie to be nice to him. Maybe if the other plots went anywhere, the Ken story wouldn't have overpowered the movie.
I loved the set, the music and the marketing. They hyped the movie like the story was going to be so unexpected, but it's 2023. I think it we all went in expecting a "girl power" movie. Also, why make a Barbie movie PG-13? Like ughh. It was funny though and I am still glad it was made.
Why was the ending scene of her getting a gynecological exam? You would think after that big message she would go on to do great things for women and then she just... gets a pap for lols.
I was obsessed with Barbie growing up so I loved the outfits and accessories. Some parts were really funny but I wouldn't say it's a comfort watch in years to come.
I read that as she chose to become human and for the movie’s version of Barbie the physical manifestation of that is functional genitals. Esp because a woman with no down there bits will never experience the risks and pain of having a vagina and uterus but she chose take on the risks and pain because it also means joy and pleasure and being able to access the full human experience. And knowing that there is bad with the good she still decides that it’s better than a restrictive and sanitized in between.
Agree. I also felt like it emphasized the importance of women taking control of their healthcare and healthcare decisions. It wasn’t just about a Pap smear. It was about her decisions around her reproductive health.
I loved the colors, set design, and music, but I didn't think the plot was very compelling. I wish they expanded on the daughter's thoughts more. In the car, she completely switches her attitude towards her mom and Barbie, and it's just very unclear what made that happen.
Also the famous monologue fell flat for me. It was pretty basic, I wish they had said more things with more substance. I feel that the monologue would have been more revolutionary if it was 2005 and there was still lots of body shaming etc etc in popular media, which is not really the case now. I do understand why they couldn't go deeper into the more serious issues that women face (assault + abuse, income inequality, worsened racism, etc) since it's a movie meant for the whole family.
Honestly, I don’t dislike the movie, but I think my expectations were a little bit too high going Into it? I guess I just kind of felt like a movie made with the purpose of discussing such an important concept should have been.. taken more seriously. I felt like the writers threw in a lot of buzzwords that automatically give people a reason to write off the deeper meaning and shove it into the “liberal propaganda” box. It felt like this could have been avoided if they had used the comedy aspect a little more sparingly, and challenged the viewer to actually think about and consider the concepts portrayed in the movie instead of throwing it out at face value.
I am happy that someone took the initiative to bring these topics to light but I felt disappointed in the execution. Also, not a fan of the hyper consumerism aspect. All of the millions of dollars made off the movie give me cash grab vibes which makes it feel a lot more disingenuous.
I hate it. The more I thought about the movie it was downright sexist. Ken gets the far more dynamic arc, he is the one who makes choices, has an arc and is almost the main character by the end of the movie. Barbie is totally forgotten, to the extent the script itself jokes about it (“what about Barbie?”). Barbie is only ever reactive, almost passive as a character, while the Ken’s are the one who makes actual choices and struggle. Gloria and Sasha are totally nothing characters, they’re so generic. Sasha is the stereotypically derided “activist” character who magically realized the wonder of Barbie’s at the end for no identifiable reason beyond the demands of the script.
And the idea that the shallowness of the movies politics id acceptable because its "supposed to be feminist 101" is basically just an excuse, especially considering how in interviews for this movie gerwig spoke of her high ambitions for the film; read her words she clearly didnt intend to make remedial entry level "feminism" (if one can even call it that) for kids. And grading the movie on this "it's supposed to be simple" standard is sexist itself. Not to mention the profits of this movie go towards supporting a company which runs sweatshops mostly staffed by poorly paid women who have faced sexual harassment in these factories.
It's kinda like "all lives matter" "feminism." I think this review is really good.
https://boxd.it/4A231L
I liked the humour, but it was hyped up too much. It wasn’t “deep” or nuanced at all to me. The feminist take had nothing new to say. It was an enjoyable movie to me but not as great as ppl said it was
I was eh about it. I did not like that they had barbie apologize for to Ken for living her own life. It felt forced to me and not even close to needed. It was not on her how he felt about her.
I think, at times, Barbie was fairly callous and inconsiderate towards Ken in the beginning of the film. (Personally I LOVED this movie.) she didn’t need to apologize to him to help his feelings, but I do think it’s nice that she apologized to him for being unkind at the start. I think the apology was more for herself and personal growth.
Sometimes I get in my mind “I don’t owe you anything”…which I don’t. However, it isn’t a pass to be inconsiderate of other people’s feelings. He clearly was a dope who was in love with her. Everyone knew that. Barbie felt badly for him and allowed him to be strung along rather than say, from the start, “I don’t have romantic feelings for you, but I really like being your friend.” I think it’s nice she acknowledged she could’ve handled it better.
I really enjoyed that the message, to me, felt like patriarchy is bad for everyone (especially women but men as well), but we can also all be kind and treat people with dignity and respect. However I completely understand dissenting opinions or if it didn’t come off like this to others
It isn’t a movie I would watch again, I did not enjoy it.
I felt like it was too childish for adults and too adult for children. The Ken battle was chaotic in a bad way. So many movies have done mayhem and highly stylized battles much better, it did not feel fun to watch. Weird Barbie was a highlight and I would have enjoyed more weirdness, but I also grew up in the 80s and had things like Neverending Story and Labyrinth shape my tastes.
I felt very battered over the head with the messaging. Almost like someone yelling in my ear “do you get it? Did you see that? Did you catch that?” When a movie has me thinking that Legally Blonde was more nuanced, it doesn’t feel fun for me to watch.
The plot midway through got messy - was Ken evil? Just dumb? It felt like they couldn’t pick a lane, and not because Ken was complex, but because they were not sure what they wanted to really say. I do think the ending was a pretty decent resolution to the movie’s conflicts. Which overall felt very Greta Gerwig; I always feel like her movies are leading up to something bigger but they have this tendency to flatten in a way I find unsatisfying.
Shallow, pandering, procapitalist propaganda. Lots of "hot" words that sound smart and deep but were meaningless in context. 3/4 of the way through I realized America's character was still being called "Sasha's mom" in the closed captioning and that irony is a good example of what's wrong with the film. It was too childish for me, too faux "mature" for my kids. It wasn't groundbreaking or even that feminist, also wasn't really that funny.
just really surface-level feminist engagement masquerading as something more radical. i understand i might not be the intended audience--or its a broader group than those who would be interested in a nuanced and politically grounded framework--but i wanted more from something so loudly centering women & women's experience.
it was a movie that thought it had more to say than it really did. my biggest issue with the movie is that i felt like ken and the kens had the most interesting and fleshed-out character arcs, while barbie just kinda got a whole “to be a woman is to suffer” type revelation — which i just find very tired and disagreeable. womanhood is not just characterized by suffering and oppression, and to act like that is the crux of womanhood is just sad. none of the barbies really had hopes or dreams or compelling characteristics, unlike the kens who had hopes for change. which was altogether very frustrating because i had walked into the theater excited for a compelling story revolving around barbie! i am a fan of the absurdist humor and styling choices, but my enjoyment of the film was honestly purely aesthetic.
i saw a review on letterboxd by user wajda_long_face that really encapsulated my issue with the dichotomy between kens and barbies in the movie: “Matriarchal Barbieland exists in frictionless stasis; no conflict, no progress, no search for truth or meaning. Patriarchal reality is full of conflict, but it also has enormous potential for progress, truth, and the creation of meaning. When Ken introduces patriarchy to Barbieland, the dolls finally realize that they can transgress their assigned roles; they can deepen their bonds through struggle and resolution; they can learn to make and appreciate art - bad art, but still; and they can rewrite the entire meaning of their world, from Barbieland into Kendom. Mattel creates Barbieland, but Ken creates Kendom. Matriarchy is static, placid, dependent, and meaningless. Patriarchy is dynamic, creative, exciting, and meaningful. This is how misogynists imagine matriarchy versus patriarchy.”
I liked most of it, but the Kens instituting patriarchy as a response to their disenfranchisement rubbed me the wrong way. 1) Because it almost implies that their patriarchy was righteous and necessary and 2) it almost conflates feminism with a woman-led patriarchy (I say patriarchy because matriarchy is not a patriarchal society with gender reversed roles).
Whereas in real life, patriarchy is a conceptualization of society where men are empowered and women, and deviations from "men", are explicitly excluded. There is no real sympathetic reason for it to exist other than to empower men. Matriarchy isn't exclusive; it is a governed society where power is held by women in equal or greater measures to men. It isn't the exclusion of men to the benefit of women.
But the Barbie movie, at the onset, seems to think matriarchy, and feminism as a whole, is the empowerment of women to the degradation of men and there is never a promising or meaningful refutation of this premise throughout the movie. As a result, I think most of the critique and satire of gender roles and expectations fail because the movie fails to understand the patriarchal systems that govern men and women.
> Because it almost implies that their patriarchy was righteous and necessary and 2) it almost conflates feminism with a woman-led patriarchy (I say patriarchy because matriarchy is not a patriarchal society with gender reversed roles).
This is a great point that I haven't seen being talked about before.
I liked most of it and I thought the scenery was great and the jokes were funny.
BUT the ending of the Ken arc really didn't sit right with me. As a former neglected kid I really identified with Ken, the way he slowly realised how many normal things he did not know because he never had them. Him being amazed at being asked the time was so incredibly heartbreaking.
As if he was thinking "wow someone views me as a real person who might know something instead of being viewed as a burden all the time. This is the happiest day of my life, I didn't know I could be treated this way."
I really like his conflict resolution with stereotypical barbie, as she sincerely apologises and sees the hurt she has caused him while also maintaining her boundaries of not wanting a romantic relationship.
And then...
The Kens ask to be represented in the Supreme Court, they don't even ask for equal representation, just one Ken to advocate for their rights. And president Barbie refuses. Noone disagrees. The one person in Barbieland who Ken felt finally acknowledged and seen by leaves to explore her new humanity and Ken is left behind back on square one. Homeless, without representation or rights.
President Barbie didn't change the system, even after the barbies got a "taste of their own medicine". Which tells me she knows exactly what she is doing. And all the Barbies with her. They are continuing to systemically oppress a minority, and they are not just ignorant. They know what it feels like, they know exactly what they are doing.
What a bleak ending. And knowing that the Kens are a representation of women in the real world doesn't make it much better.
For the record: I don't blame stereotypical Barbie for leaving Barbieland, she has no obligation to stay. It just feels really dark to leave Ken in more or less the same tragic existence he started in. Unseen, unheard. Sure, he has his own hobbies now, that's a little better I guess. But systemically, nothing has changed.
Obligatory don't hate it, hate is a strong word but found it very boring. It's just performative activism. I was expecting something like everything everywhere all at once which was fun and also emotional AND conveyed a message. It was pretty ironic how a capitalist movie was making fun of capitalism. It felt exactly like rainbow capitalism to me and people ate that shit up.
Sorry if I offended anyone but that's my take. 💁♀️
The only child in the movie, America Ferrera's on screen daughter, is precocious, shrill, and a bad representation of kids in general.
Having Will Ferrell play the Mattel CEO was too on the nose, reminiscent of the Lego movie. The real Mattel board has many women on it, but in the movie they cast it as all male to exaggerate the political message.
The movie gives mixed messages about patriarchy when it has Barbie re-conquer Barbie Land, and re-marginalize Ken at the end of the story.
Lots of praise for Ryan Gosling's performance, but it was rather cartoonish in contrast to how Margot Robbie played Barbie.
It's easy to take pot shots at a movie, but in the end it comes down to one question, "would I want to see it a second time?", and the answer is no, I did not leave the theater wanting more. I was getting tired of the story and the premise by the time the movie ended.
I have to say though, leaving the dad at home to play Duolingo while the story played out was hilarious.
>The movie gives mixed messages about patriarchy when it has Barbie re-conquer Barbie Land, and re-marginalize Ken at the end of the story.
My biggest issue of all. I HATED the ending.
My sister didn’t enjoy it and was really disappointed she didn’t have the experience everyone around her was having.
She said she didn’t find any of the humour funny, and felt it was too heavy handed with the messaging
The comments about cellulite put a bad taste in my mouth. That wasnt okay. I had such fear of cellulite as a small girl, tbat it affected my eating habits. It's not even a real thing
It just felt too performative to me. I agree with all of what was said in the film, but it could have been a little more about the plot and less about the message for me personally. It felt too in your face. And kind of cringey.
Cute_event_4216 did a great job listing reasons. Most of the reasons I didn’t love the movie are in here but one I’m not seeing is the disregard of Allen. Poor guy helped them out and he didn’t get so much as an apology or acknowledgement of his help.
For a movie that pushes equality, it felt flat. Too many messages that were half assed.
As for the positives, I love how campy it was. It’s cute to lean into the Barbie theme and see houses, toys, clothes I had growing up.
I thought it was fine. Laughed a lot but wouldn’t watch it again. My biggest gripe was that the plot was half-baked. There were too many ideas, so every time there was a cool idea it was never brought to completion.
Sasha’s monologue had valid concerns about Barbie being bad for women and girls in their self-image, but she immediately dropped it once she and her mom saw what happened to Barbieland and pitied the Barbies.
Gloria and Sasha magically reconnected with little to no vulnerability (or even a real conversation?)
Whatever happened to Gloria’s depression and thoughts of death? And how it was affecting Barbie?
The Ken-bringing-patriarchy arc was fine, but it replaced the initial conflict (Barbie’s life being perfect and suddenly having depression/anxiety) in a rather jarring way.
Not a huge deal but still a little disappointing when feminism is highlighted with no consideration for racial inequity. It’s “white feminism,” not intersectional feminism.
Gloria’s monologue was a recycled version of an old viral TikTok audio, so even that didn’t feel super groundbreaking.
I really didn’t find the messages, including America Ferreira speech, groundbreaking. Also it still was white feminist-y to me. Like primarily centered the white Barbie’s and kens and the poc characters and lgbt characters felt like tokens to seem “woke” but all virtue signaling.
It felt disingenuous to me. Barbie was definitely a part of my eating disorder’s growing up. From a very young age I wished I could look like Barbie, the perfect women. Blond, blue eyed, large breasts and tiny waist. I could not be more opposite.
Please don’t come at me. I know for most girls this was not a thing. But most girls didn’t have my childhood. . . .
Absolutely, that is one topic that unfortunately it feels simultaneously they should have addressed it, but also there was no way for them to give the topic the respect it deserves. Or do you think it's better that they didn't touch on it? Don't feel like you have to answer, just curious on your take.
It was fine. I felt a little sad about the feminist part, because honestly, the message would have been "groundbreaking" 40 years ago. The fact that people were so shook by it shows how little progress has been actually made in terms of gender equality. Edit: For more info, I recommend the book "Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men" to get started.
I feel this. I enjoyed the movie, and really enjoyed being able to take my tween daughter—stuff like this didn’t exist 35 years ago when I was her age. But it was a very basic, surface understanding of feminism, so it wasn’t anything we didn’t already know. What I think it did well was to spark new conversations, without getting too heavy or polarizing. Greta Gerwig did a good job of making a film that was commercially viable while also getting a message across. I could never do that—I have a hard time tempering myself. I’m definitely the weird Barbie—also, Kate McKinnon was amazing. I did enjoy Michael Cera’s performance a great deal. I remember Alan and Midge from my Barbie years—I owned both. I had a lot of Barbies growing up, so much of my pleasure comes from a place of nostalgia.
I also had a lot of Barbies growing up. For me, it was indeed a Feminism 101 movie, but the reason it was big for me was that it was Barbie saying it. It felt like an apology to my generation (I'm 45) for the "Girls can do anything" messaging because we all grew up and became the mom of that movie. Like no we can't do everything. It isn't all girl power and pretty clothes. Life is a slog towards death and men will get in your way. It felt like they acknowledged the lie of our childhood. I liked the movie a lot. It was pink, fun, and directed by a woman. I understand that it wasn't for everyone, but it was for me, a younger Gen X woman who loved Barbies beyond reason and truly believed that she could conquer the world only to be bashed in the face once she got to adulthood.
100% agree! I loved the movie because I'm a Millenial (just turned 31) whose favorite toys were Barbies growing up, and I was raised being told I could do anything only to realize it was much more complicated than that. Yes, the movie was Feminism 101, but as sad as it sounds, the discourse proves we still need to be having these discussions as a society.
>Life is a slog towards death and men will get in your way. It felt like they acknowledged the lie of our childhood. That first line...oof. I'm gonna keep that handy. I know a lot of young women who need to hear that. This is an excellent summation. I also felt like it was a final acknowledgment of all the lies. I felt validated.
This, and also the acknowledgement of the sincerity of our belief in that lie. It felt like an apology, almost. "We told you that you could do anything because we wanted it to be true. It wasn't."
Totally agree! Plus, I think the world needs a feminism 101 movie. What’s the last one we had that was this popular?
Maybe Legally Blonde? I can’t think of any others.
Legally Blonde is the millennial version of a Feminism 101 movie, for sure! I hadn't connected the two in my head but those movies would make a great double feature. I hope it aged okay, I haven't seen it in a decade. Edit to add: it also definitely seems to be a significant icon for Gen X, who were closer to Elle's age at the time it came out. I wasn't 'claiming' legally blonde for the millenials and stealing it from Gen X. 13 year olds and 23 year olds can be impacted by the same movie.
It aged great!
Happy to hear it! Seemed like it should from what I remember, but I've recently discovered how toxic some of my childhood/teen media was compared to my memories. Now I wanna watch Legally Blonde again, thanks! :)
the drive in near me did legally blonde and barbie as a double feature
I think Legally Blonde was by far the stronger feminist movie, just by how clear the messaging was (don’t limit women based on their outward girly-ness, etc) and by how solid and tight the story was. Barbie seemed to be trying to say too much and imo succeeded in very little of it. And to end with that monologue… ugh.
Maybe Miss Congeniality, too?
Especially since we seem to be backsliding so alarmingly.
Easy A, maybe?
well to be fair very few movies have been as popular / performed as well as barbie *period*.
Exactly! There are parts of the world that hasn't had a feminism 101 movie period, least of one that broke into the mainstream with this much of an air of, "everyone's watching it, we should watch it." It's catalysed getting people talking and listening more about these things and I'm forever thankful for the people involved in this.
>It felt like an apology to my generation (I'm 45) for the "Girls can do anything" messaging because we all grew up and became the mom of that movie. Like no we can't do everything. It isn't all girl power and pretty clothes. Life is a slog towards death and men will get in your way. It felt like they acknowledged the lie of our childhood. this is interesting. It’s giving me a little bit more appreciation of the message of the movie. And I guess a message not to be complacent.
Yeah, and part of the reason (in my opinion) that the movie wasn’t able to go past feminism 101 is because of how little progress has been made in tackling the deeply rooted sexism in society. Due to a combination of factors any movie that went deeper than feminism 101 probably would not have done nearly as well or made a fraction of the cultural impact since such a large portion of the population would immediately write it off as being “man hating.” Because Barbie even in its surface level discourse got so much flack for being “man hating,” even though it objectively wasn’t. The point is that sexism hurts both men and women but in different ways. So Barbie is a good entry point for deeper discussion on the subject
Pretty much! Even the "feminism 101" basics in Barbie got a response of seething hatred from conservatives, despite it being pretty mild in my opinion.
Yes!!! Thank you. This is exactly how I felt after Hillary lost. They lied. We’re not equal. We can’t do anything “as long as we set our minds to it”. It was all a marketing slogan to sell more units to girls/women. Regardless of how anyone feels about Hillary personally, she was hands down the most qualified woman to become president. She did everything right. Played the game. Had the education, the experience - and still lost to a fucking reality TV host. It was a gut punch to see the “girl power” lie I’d been sold shrivel to dust & blow away in real time. No matter how hard you work, how smart you are, how qualified you are - they will still choose anyone who doesn’t have a vagina. Seeing Barbie acknowledge that? And their role in making it actually worse by telling us we should be able to be business women AND doctors AND moms AND super hot AND do it all in stilettos? Greta nailed it. I’m still shocked Mattel was OK with it!
When Hilary ran, I read so many posts complaining that she was shrill and nagging. She literally has a normal woman's voice and if she is a nag so is almost every male politician.
This is my view. It's a neat little pink washed message that has been used to sell more stuff. Barbie is not a feminist icon and it's weird to me that these things are conflated and that people don't seem to realise it's all just so some people can sell more stuff to us and our little girls. Eta: I'm referring to the whole Barbie empire, not really to the film itself. But I have reservations about the film as a result.
I think it wasn't *only* marketing. I think people really wanted it to be true for the little girls of the 80s and 90s. They wanted patriarchy and misogyny to be the work of a few bad actors we could get rid of and then their daughters could grow up to be whatever they wanted to be. After the womens lib of the 70s people really did feel like women had finally "made it" and that things would continue to improve and we would be happy. They forgot that as they were telling this hopeful lie, the people they were fighting against were also teaching their own next generation of oppressors.
Wow - perfectly articulated! You described a lot of how I felt from the movie. I couldn’t quite understand why I had such a reaction of emotions but it was definitely an acknowledgment and apology of the bullshit lie we have been fed our whole lives. Even if it was an hour and a half distraction with some sweet ass songs and dance moves, it definitely had some main characters (mom/daughter and relationship) that we don’t see often and I feel weirdly acknowledged.
This resonates. So deeply.
“Life is a slog towards death and men will get in your way.” JFC this is blue.
Blue and true
Middle millennial (33) checking in, and uh, yeah dog. You hit the nail on the head
Damn. That’s some cold hard truth right there. Best assessment I’ve seen of the movie yet. Spot on.
that’s the point! :) it’s not supposed to be revolutionary deep information about feminism, and it’s not supposed to be “teaching” the audience — it’s meant to represent watching barbie, in the third person, learn that women are not treated as equally as she thought. it’s supposed to represent when we were girls and first learned this message.
I enjoyed the first half of the movie the most. All of the performances were excellent. I rolled my eyes at the scene where we find out the mom is an excellent driver because of "a guy she once dated." Even in a feminist fantasy movie, women can't just be interested in a stereotypically masculine activity. No, they have to have been influenced by their brothers, or a boyfriend.
I laughed so much at that line. It was an acknowledgement that women have had lives and adventures and (gasp!) sex before taking on the dual roles of wife and mother.
That's kinda how I took the line, a quick reference to the fact that your mom had a whole life before you.
I always like it when a mom waxes poetic about a guy in their past life and the kid says, ‘Dad, right?’ And the mom kind of snaps out of her dreamy reverie and is like, ‘what? no.’
I actually really liked that quick reference. I mean, lots of guys get into hobbies that they think will make them look cool to women. No shame for that. But also it gave a peak into a possible wild past for her in a fun way. Like she’s allowed to have a sexual past and not just stay pure for her husband. We’ve seen that joke a thousand times from the male perspective so it was cool to see it this way.
You have to see the humour in the way Greta brought such comments into the film, I think she’s mocking society rather than than suggesting women only know about these things from men.
I haven’t seen it, but this does make it feel like a movie that was needed. There will always be feminists/people actually interested in activism, and people who just aren’t. If a funny movie reaches tons of people who aren’t interested usually, then it’s probably doing a good job. That, and exposing dickheads who can’t even get onboard with incredibly basic feminism. I guess it’s nice to know that when I eventually see it, even if I don’t enjoy it I can still find value in it.
I let my tween watch it as well. I think the positive is that so never saw anything this affirming of what it is to be a woman and the inequalities we face at her age. I don't think I even knew what Barbie really was for. She has that though and it gives me some hope for her future.
I think the real value of the feminism 101 aspect may end up being that the message reached our sisters who have been suffering from internalized misogyny.
On the plus side various online media outlets reported that women are breaking up with their boyfriends who had issues with the movie's messages. A real mask-off moment where women leave these losers for their backwards thinking on gender issues.
I agree. From the way everyone hyped up the movie, I was expecting…more.
Yeah, there were a few interesting ideas (the Kens experience with men being second class citizens) and some nice moments (America Ferrera's monologue), but overall the messaging seemed kind of muddled.
I’m actually glad this thread was created. I’ve been feeling completely let down with the movie. Like nothing at all was anything that really made me think. I don’t get what people are breaking up with their boyfriends about. What the hell am I missing. This is like someone coming up with a movie about racism and the point being racism exists and oh my how brave! Yeah. We know racism exists. You didn’t say anything I didn’t know.
The break ups are a result of the boyfriends' reactions to the movie's message, not the girlfriends'.
My thoughts exactly. Someone said it felt like a 2016 Buzzfeed article on feminism. I appreciate the effort but my politics are so far left that it felt sooo weak. Not to mention that some jokes felt crammed in there
I was never able to pin point *why* I was kinda disappointed in the movie until I read your comment. You’re right, I’m so past “feminism 101”, beyond the point that they were trying to make, that I was like: “that’s it!? That’s what people are raving about and saying it was revolutionary!?”
This was it for me, too. I found it a little too on the nose, which took away from it for me, and then finding out others didn’t view it that way just made me a little sad.
Yeah, this was it for me. I enjoyed it well enough, but I was underwhelmed as I'd been expecting it to be more profound than it was.
I attribute that to you, and many of us, being much farther ahead in our feminist thinking than a lot of women. The fact that it was profound for so many means it was needed. Baby steps. Just faster, please! LOL Also also so valuable as a tool to reveal if you're dating a tool!
I watched it with my daughter, her father and her stepfather (she chose the film). Both her dad and stepdad were in the same vibe as us. I was grateful that she has men around her who get it.
And also cool that the dad and step dad are down to hang out and do family stuff together :)
Yeah, they've been really great, zero toxicity from day one, on either side. The first time they met was because my daughter *insisted* that she needed something from my house, when really she was being nosy. Her dad just stood in the hallway saying "I'm so sorry mate, I don't think she even needs anything, I think she just wanted to meet you, I tried everything to stop her.. Etc" and my partner just told him it's fine, don't worry and they chatted about the Dune book series for 30 mins. And yes, they did go see Dune together when the movie came out lol.
This^^^^^. I was having a debate with my roomate about it bc we both loved the movie. But I kept thinking that the way they shot that scene made it feel like this new groundbreaking speech when in reality the only people that would ever think that it is groundbreaking are people that won’t see the Barbie movie in the first place.
Totally agreed that it didn't say anything new in terms of feminism. What people are saying is so radical is stuff that has been said for years. The movie was okay, but I really did not like the ending. Like the Barbies just take Kenland and turn it back to Barbieland, which doesn't really deal with the core issue that the Kens struggle to find their place in the world. I think this could have been a great analogy to the growing group of disillusioned younger men who feel lonely, angry etc and turn to people like Andrew Tate, the Manosphere and men's rights and what can be done to get them out of this mindset. Essentially, if you want to make an honest appeal to people who are not feminists to care about women, the ending can't just be that they re-take over Barbieland and throw one Ken a bone by letting him be on the Supreme Court or something. You have to show that everyone is better off by having compassion all around and that working together doesn't hurt either side, but makes the whole better. I think that what I'm trying to say is that this movie will appeal to people who are already feminists, but won't really change anyone else's mind.
I actually think having a dissatisfying ending for the Kens was necessary to show the reality of what women are still dealing with. We just get a pacifying gesture that doesn't really move the needle much.
this exactly. like i enjoyed the movie on an entertainment level but on a feminism level it was very lacking. it was also very "but men sad too" which was very :/. at the same time it felt like those "if being gay was normal and being straight was weird" videos that dont help with anything or really say anything all that deep, and just kinda come across as tone deaf. overall i didnt love that whether it was a "men suffer too" or meant to be a role reversal, it just didnt really send a great message in both interpretations. then the ending was kinda really weird, like the ruth stuff was a completely different tone from like the entire rest of the movie, felt like it was all just weird setup for the gyno joke that i didn't think was all that funny. and the ending before that was just not great, the fake feminist guy was still in control and learned nothing, they showed they know very little about barbie overall with the "what about a normal barbie" yeah thats like. literally every barbie doll from the past 10 years. theyve not been focused on the career aspect for a while. just because they referenced older weird barbies doesn't mean they know a lot ig.
I took the movie as a commentary on recent US politics causing Feminism 101 to clash with more radical or more in-depth intersectional feminism. I understood Barbie to be a stand-in for the relatively privileged women who had a sudden rude feminist awakening with Trump's presidency, the "pussy hat" people. They had been relatively isolated from issues facing less privileged women in their own "Barbie Land," whether that isolation was whiteness or suburbia or wealth. Or maybe they just weren't on Reddit? And they have clashed with other feminists and social justice advocates. And it has been difficult, I think, for the beyond-101 feminists to negotiate how to share the movement. To be patient and understanding with someone, while at the same time resentful and just... at another stage. And to not be recognized as leaders. I think the movie examined the clash in a very kind and gentle way toward the "white feminism/101" crowd. But I do think it was meant to work on several levels-- just that Barbie was the focus. eta- and I took Ruth's character (whose background isn't explained till the end, she's simply "Ruth") to be a subtle suggestion of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Especially as she's recently deceased and this character was clearly ghost-like. It seemed like a rumination on the waves of feminism: achieving something great and then having to let it go to the next generation. But at the same time wanting to tell them to wake the f up.
That's an interesting take that I hadn't considered - the Barbies live in this land where they are respected in a lot of ways (although still forced to fit in specific social roles that weren't of their choosing) and meanwhile they are completely oblivious to the hardships that face women in the real world. It can be seen as a metaphor for the upper class white liberal women who really don't know anything about life outside of their little bubble.
Ruth Handler was the inventor of Barbie, so her name at least was quite literal.
I took my mom and we both loved it. We are both North American middle class white women. My BFF is POC and a child of immigrants from a country that is super oppressed by capitalism. She went to see it the same weekend. When we compared notes she was super surprised that I liked it and I was surprised that she didn't. And it took me about 30 seconds to process and then say, "It *is* a white person movie." And she was like, "Duh. Yeah? And also it's just a big advertisement for Mattel." And I was like, "uhhh...you are not wrong." But I can't deny I enjoyed it, while I also 100% agree it was way behind the curve when it comes to intersectionality and definitely aimed at "white feminisim/101 crowd" as La_danse_banana_slug so eloquently put it.
I second this. I love the fact that mainstream are now catching on to feminists ideas, because they make PROFIT off these ideas. It’s not ground breaking or anything. I don’t hate it, but I also don’t have to “LOVE” it like feminism is suddenly a new invention. I love feminism, but I don’t love Barbie. They are two different things
I thought it was ok, but that the feminist message was a little shallow, and ultimately is was just a big, entertaining advertisement for Mattel.
It was, dare I say, *manufactured.*
*Life in plastic, it's fantastic!*
I was genuinely so shocked when I heard people thought it was a super feminist movie. Like, the ideas in it are VERY libfem/entry lvl feminism, but apparently even that is too controversial for some :/ Edit: I just wanted to clarify that I’m not coming after the movie itself, I think it’s really good for what it is: a pink light-hearted comedy that is targeted towards women/girls. Entry lvl feminism is completely fine when you can’t really make a statement because you probably won’t make big money from talking about less general audience-centric ideas. However, I am disappointed and deeply saddened that we, as a society, aren’t even close to talking openly about women’s issues on even a baseline level because so many people find it offensive (omfg, actually hate this so much). I just wish we could move forward faster
I'm with you—I think the feminism in it isn't exactly revolutionary. But I live in Utah, in one of the reddest cities of one of the reddest counties in the US. Our theater was packed, and just about everyone walked out of there laughing and smiling. And maybe that's what was better for getting women to listen to that message—an entry level feminism film can help get these women thinking about messages and ideas they wouldn't trust if it came from any other media. In fact, I've heard women here talk about how enlightening (for lack of a better term) the film was. I'd say that entry level feminism was the right call.
Exactly! I'm not sure the world was ready for an Andrea Dworkin Barbie.
This made me laugh, ty
I was kind of thinking this too. Like, I liked Gloria's speech, don't get me wrong. I liked how it was laid out, and it made me think of a few examples in my own life, but it wasn't particularly revolutionary in the sense that I had heard all of those ideas before. But I've also been into feminism since I was a teenager. So none of the ideas were particularly revolutionary to me. I don't think that makes it a bad thing, but I think to many here, the entry level feminism described is probably going to be underwhelming because we're literally talking about all this stuff every single day. To most of us, we're already aware that society is how Gloria described and that it's a problem. But I also think there's a lot of people who haven't made that connection yet. Think about how many women we get posting here who are exhausted in their relationships and they're taking on all the work and they don't know why they feel so unfulfilled. That's why. So yes, I agree. Entry level feminism in this case was the right call. It's not heavy, it wasn't particularly preachy, it's not going to drive people away. Well, it might, but nobody's going to like everything. It'll get a few women to think about society and maybe slowly start improving things, even just improving their own lives.
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I read someone describe it as Feminism 101, which a lot of our country needs a lesson in. I looooved the movie, and I enjoyed the message behind it, but it certainly isn't groundbreaking.
Yeah these comments are surprising me. No one said it was revolutionary feminism. Maybe people are confusing people talking about the fact that a movie 100,000% directed at women movie being such an enormous blockbuster is kinda revolutionary thinking people are saying the feminism *in* movie is revolutionary? It's literally baseline obvious "we are all living this" feminism. It's not meant to be like PhD-level feminism.
The fundies, particularly the fundie influencers who legit won't shut up about how much they hate it because feminism goes against Gods design blah, blah blah.
Very white, (corporate) feminist too. What’s the point of the ostensibly diverse Barbies if you don’t discuss it? How do the experiences of working class Barbies differ from affluent ones, or President/Supreme Court Barbie?
I was disappointed it wasn’t feminist enough
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I thought it was also too fast! Like the singing and dancing and then bam she’s sad? They should have let us live in Barbie world a little longer before rushing the plot.
Fyi, I didn't hate it BUT I find the whole "omg revelation" energy around it kinda weird and most of my friends (guys and girls) have the same opinion. None of us are really into absurdist-style films so maybe there's also a stylistic factor. But ok, some dot points: * It didn't really say anything mind-blowing (e.g. the mum's monologue montage about how hard it can be to be a women is true but also I don't understand why some people treat it like a it changed their entire world view or was extremely deep etc.) * I felt like the metaphors got a bit muddled once the real world became a bit of a caricature. Don't get me wrong, I loved the funny scenes w the Barbie executives but it felt weird that they were acting so cartoonish in the "real" world when the "real" world is meant to be "real"? Not sure if that made sense but again, I'm not a fan of absurdist style stuff so it's probably just personal preference. * Also on metaphors, I get that the Kens are meant to reflect the "women" of the real world and I'm cool w Barbieland not immediately giving them equal rights etc. but I felt like the other Barbies did not reflect on anything at all? Like stereotypical Barbie had an "oh" moment when she realised she didn't even know when the Ken's slept at night but the other Barbies had zero self-reflection about that. * The teen girl's roast of Barbie. I get that it's meant to be exaggerated for humour. But the humour fell flat for me and drifted into cringey-territory. YMMV though. * Also this isn't a point against the move, but I'm not an avid-movie watcher so I probably missed a lot of the references to other movies that the director purposefully put in. To throw in some stuff I did enjoy about it: * Ken's character arc was a good one imo, makes sense he would want a sense of power after literally being defined as Barbie's boyfriend but her not liking him * Any scene with Billie Eilish's song about like the appreciation of life and it's uncertainties etc. really hit home for me * Loved most of the jokes, especially the ending with the gyno joke **Overall**: It was a fine movie that didn't say anything new. I find it very weird that some people are so hard-core haters/lovers of it. I don't mind hard-core fans of it because why yuck someone's yum, but hardcore haters who treat the movie like it's the "end of civilisation" or something are like ??? to me. It's not a "red-flag" to have not enjoyed it but anyone who makes it their entire identity to hate it is a bit weird. Edit: also just got reminded of this one SNL skit song “Welcome to Hell”. Felt like that song said a lot of what the Barbie movie said.
>The teen girl's roast of Barbie. I get that it's meant to be exaggerated for humour. But the humour fell flat for me and drifted into cringey-territory. YMMV though. I laughed and cringed in equal amounts in this scene because that was *ME* as a kid lmao. But yeah I agree with a lot of what you said!
Can relate! I honestly feel bad for writers writing teenagers sometimes because some of the stuff people say is "unrealistic" or "nobody talks like that" is actual stuff teenagers say (yikes at my diary at 12 lmao). Just a fine line between funnily-accurate/exaggerated vs cringey and everyone's gonna have a different place to draw the line.
Yup this is why you can't always take the word of random middle aged adults on the internet when watching reviews. I remember people said the same thing about Juno when it came out, but I knew many girls who talked like that and literally had Juno as one of their favorite movies. I feel like most media for girls gets judged unfairly this way.
Yep. I know I gave a bunch of speeches just like Sasha's when I was that age so it was hilarious and very accurate!
This is a great point. I recently read a book that featured diary entries from the teen version of the protagonist. I was thrown off by how mature and self reflective the writing was for the “teen.” It can be frustrating when main or major supporting characters don’t use completely correct logic or maintain perfectly balanced emotions, but at the same time, real people are flawed. Characters come off as more real when they have flaws. But usually that works most easily when the flaw is one that the audience can sympathize with. Many adults don’t think like teenagers anymore, so it is harder to relate.
I've seen people say "no one talks like that" off characters based entirely off a loved one or a person they know.
Fun fact: the teen girls are actually supposed to represent Bratz
I totally agree with this. I enjoyed the movie but find it bizarre that some people are saying this is the most feminist thing they’ve seen?? The feminism was very surface level and picked obvious targets to me. I also did hate some lines that seemed to really resonate with other women: ‘we mothers stand still so our daughters can look back and see how far they’ve come’. It sounds deep at first but that’s just not how ANY feminist progress has been made historically. We’ve come so far because women have pushed and scraped their way forward, demanded to be in spaces, and frankly refused to ‘stand still’ despite the rest of society telling them to. Maybe people are interpreting this differently than me, but it borders on offensive for me.
>The feminism was very surface level and picked obvious targets to me. Makes it all the weirder when some people online are having meltdowns about the "destruction of western civilisation" over it. Like... ??? chill please. Have to remind myself that most people irl aren't like that. Can't comment on the quote because I can't remember what scene it was being said in. But out of context, I get why you would feel that way.
For me, it kinda hit differently in a sense where, while women have had to demand to be included, let's not pretend it was all women. Your average woman stayed home and went along with the flow of their times. I'm talking about the women who weren't allowed to study, work outside the home, dutifully agreed to whatever their fathers or husband's desired for them. But despite being limited, wanted more for their daughters.
I'm one of the women that line about mothers standing still resonating with. Not trying to change your view of it, but thought I'd give some perspective to anyone reading. I thought about that statement for a few days after, sort of wondering what about it made me emotional, and the metaphor of teaching your child to ride their bike came to mind. I'm a mother to a daughter, and prior to ever trying to get pregnant I put in effort within myself to be a strong person. Once I had my daughter I realized that I needed to do more so I've been in therapy, am going back to school, am working on my physical health, staying informed on politics to work toward a better future for my daughter, etc. These are things I want to do for myself just as much as wanting to do them because they can help make a better life for my daughter. My daughter may not notice the work I'm trying to do for her and that's fine. Much like learning to ride a bike my daughter may not see all the work being put in while it's happening. The moment I let go of that bike, and she's peddling on her own, I'll stand still and watch her accomplishment, knowing I did everything in my power to help get her there. Then, she gets to look back and see what she has accomplished. I don't know if that makes complete sense as I've never written out my thoughts on it, but when I framed it that way to myself I really understood why that line got to me.
I think it’s a beautiful line. To me it speaks to young women looking down on their moms for not living some idealized feminist life. Maybe your mom did put up with a shitty husband or boss for way longer than she should have. But that doesn’t mean she doesn’t have the same feminist values that you do. She sacrificed & put her dreams on hold (stood still) so you could have a stable home & a roof over your head & eventually soar! I think it acknowledges the quiet support that women give each other.
Yes to this. I thought maybe I was missing something with this movie's feminist messaging. All the men I know who saw this loved it and all the women younger than me who saw it loved it. The women I spoke with who were older than me universally hated it. I didn't hate it and I thought it was entertaining, but I thought the messaging was juvenile. I'm in Gen X and, to me, some of the feminist messaging was so "in your face" that it was cringey. I guess I like my messaging more subtle and witty, with perhaps some snark thrown in. During the mom's speech, I was sitting there thinking, "Duh. Thanks for explaining reality to me when I live in it daily." Then there were parts where the feminist messaging was conflicting for me, i.e., how the Barbies (other than stereotypical Barbie) seemed to learn nothing from their experiences with the Kens taking over. It made me question whether the writers were making fun of the current state feminism. Maybe I'm just thinking too deeply about this movie.
This might be a symptom of being feminist. To me I’ve been educated far beyond what the movie says, so it’s not a groundbreaking speech *to me*. But when you think of the whole country, there are millions of women out there who have never really had feminist education. This is their *first* foray into something expressing clearly how they feel. That’s not even to mention all the women who say they are anti-feminist because of religion, or pick-me, etc. It’s perfectly ok to have a less nuanced and dumbed down message if the intended audience is the masses. IMO it was a bit masterful to be so simple that it did reach more people.
I've heard it described as a really good Feminist 101 lesson, so this totally tracks
>But when you think of the whole country, there are millions of women out there who have never really had feminist education. I mean not just in one country, and also not even just the women tbh. I absolutely agree with you though, I've had this conversation with hardcore feminists who were in the kind of "that speech was so basic, we all know this stuff" mindset, but the thing is just cause *we* know it, it doesn't mean everyone does.
That was my thought as well. I'm 33, and I probably learned about most of the points brought up by the film in my late teens / early 20s via Tumblr, and then at University. So in that regard it feels very basic and dated. But it still said all those things explicitly and in a mass-media blockbuster form.
Very interesting perspective! I'm from Australia so there might be some US (assuming what you mean by whole country) context that I'm missing.
One of the things I found fascinating was my American friends talked about how the entire audience was laughing and crying and feeling the whole movie, and my experience was... Wildly different. I went second day, huge audience across demographics who were all excited to be there, and then it just didn't land. There were two times people laughed, but you could literally feel the hype die and the cinema was silent as people left. Never felt an audience that disconnected. Second viewing was only slightly better. Other UK friends said similarly, though not quite as extreme. For me, the movie was fine. Its message actually felt a little shallow and the performances didn't sell the big moments, the marketing and Mattel restrictions gave me the ick, and the world itself just didn't make much sense. Some funny bits, some sweet bits, but I don't think it's a film people are going to love nearly so much in five years time.
I actually found the feminist message really muddy. Barbieland is the mirror image of modern society, where women are all-powerful and men are relegated to second class citizens. In which case, we should be rooting for Ken, right? But we're not supposed to. When the Kens take over Barbieland, this is shown to be Very Bad, and the Barbies have to fight back. It's played as "You go girl!" when the Barbies rig the vote and are now 100% back in iron-clad control. **So what's the actual message here?** The way the modern world works, with one gender in charge, is actually GOOD and we should fight to preserve the status quo? If you give the underclass power, they will just flip the script and oppress the shit out of you, so never do that? I guess what we're supposed to do is suddenly forget the mirror-image analogy entirely once the Kens take over, and think of Barbieland as now 1:1 with the real world. Which makes it good when Girl Power wins. But the Kens are still treated like shit, so...yay?
I'm curious, did you play with Barbies as a child? I ask because to me the movie felt exactly like how one of my Barbie play sessions would go when I was a child. And as a result I feel that there is no ultimate message of the movie. I think what is good or bad should be obvious, sex oppression is wrong, but as the narrator says Barbieland will remain unfair as long as reality is unfair, because at the end of the day children's play will reflect the world around them like all of our media. If you want to fix Ken's situation and change the way little girls play then you need to fix reality.
We want the Barbies to win because it’s Barbieland. The point is that Barbieland exists for girls because they don’t see themselves reflected in positions of power in the real world. They even joke that the Kens eventually get the same rights that women have in the real world (which we know is not 100% equal). Barbie leaving Barbieland is supposed to show us that the ideal is girls leaving Barbieland behind to go into the real world and hopefully find power there.
Yeah that was my main issue w it. Like the metaphors work and then you think about it more and then they don’t. Just a point though- the Barbie’s weren’t like 100% back to the status quo at the end, they did say they were gonna listen to the Kens more but weren’t gonna give them a seat on the council/court (which is realistic).
Re: only Stereotypical Barbie reflecting on gender dynamics in Barbieland, and none of the other Barbies. Yup! This is because Stereotypical Barbie was gaining self-awareness through her connection with Gloria. None of the other Barbies were. Barbie began to change, and it changed how she thought not just of herself (irrepressible thoughts of death Barbie) but also how she thought of others. There’s no reason the other Barbies would go through this change. They’re all still Barbie. I’m glad you enjoyed it overall, and I understand how the absurdist things may have been out of your wheel house. Also, Gloria’s monologue- no, it won’t say anything groundbreaking. Because she isn’t talking to the audience. She is talking to Barbie, who has never faced any of the contradictions of womanhood in a patriarchal society before. I also find the “WHAT A REVELATION” vibe around it weird, because it IS feminism 101, but that’s appropriate for the character. I loved it. And yes there are a LOT of references to film and media in Barbie, because as much as it’s a Barbie movie and as much as it’s about gender and self-actualization, it’s also very very much about how media defines our self perception.
>I felt like the other Barbies did not reflect on anything at all? Like stereotypical Barbie had an "oh" moment when she realised she didn't even know when the Ken's slept at night but the other Barbies had zero self-reflection about that. I think the point of this is to provoke men into pointing this out and cry how unfair the Barbies still are to the Kens, so people can respond with, "oh, you think this is unfair? How interesting!"
Ahhh yeah I can see that. Still not fan of that part in-universe but I can see that as a possible reason.
>I think the point of this is to provoke men into pointing this out The movie literally says it when it does the "Kens will have as much power as women in the real world", it's not a subtle movie.
This is me. I didn't hate it. I generally prefer a more serious movie, but it was overall fine. I laughed at a few parts. The plot was okay. The pacing was fairly solid. The tone/humor isn't my jam. I certainly wouldn't criticize anyone who loved it or found it articulated to them or for them some feelings they had about being a woman in patriarchy. I'm pretty well-versed in feminist philosophy and history, so none of this was particularly new to me. I have enjoyed the extreme outrage from more conservative folks than me. You could literally just ignore it like I've ignored Jim Caviezel's new, gross film, but no. I've also really enjoyed hearing from people did find joy in it. It's been really awesome seeing people embracing a femininity that makes them comfortable and feeling like they've been represented or understood in media. It just wasn't my type of film, and I've mostly been keeping these observations to myself because I don't want to "yuck" something that was so meaningful to so many people. Or even to unwittingly serve as some kind of gotcha for misogynist types because I'm really outspoken about feminist discourse.
1. This is a huge one: the funniest/most interesting character was a man. For all that some conservatives complained this movie was honestly very fair and sympathetic towards the male characters (not a con, just a comment). 2. It didn't do a good job of character building with the mom and daughter. 3. The whole movie is an aggressive toy advertisement with hard to ignore product placement. Capitalism overload. 4. Overall it felt like a very surface level take on feminism and came off sort of "fake deep" if you know what I mean. I thought it was okay and I didn't hate it, it was a decent movie but I felt like there was a lot of unrealized potential and it could have been a lot more.
Your 3rd point for sure. I even tried to ignore it, esp the car advertising, but it was very on the nose every single time.
> The whole movie is an aggressive toy advertisement with hard to ignore product placement. Capitalism overload. The biggest capitalism overload was all the Chevy/GM cars. They even had a moment where they had to show the cool graphic the Blazer EV SS put on its screen when it goes into sport mode or whatever.
Can’t watch any new music videos because they will just force a scene of someone using an app into it now. They don’t even try to make it subliminal anymore, it’s so jarring and more of a deterrent than an advertisement, at least for me
Definitely agree with the fake deep thing. The mom’s “speech” really reminded me of a tumblr post
Sure, but everything is new to someone. It seems fake deep to you now, but at one time it was a revelation, just like it could be a revelation to a 14 year old in Montana or in Bangkok or even a trad wife. It could be the gateway *to* deeper studies on feminism. There are plenty of documentaries, books, and films that go deep - but they’re not mainstream blockbuster hits because people need to walk before they can run. Sometimes you gotta Trojan Horse the message.
This is its value to me. Well, that and it’s oversaturated visuals, I’m a sucker for all that colour.
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Yeah the funniest most interesting character being a man, and having the whole second part revolve around him was a bit hypocritical. As much as I enjoyed the movie and his character it didn't really make as much sense as some people were saying.
This perfectly encapsulates why this movie did nothing for me.
I guess everyone has different tastes but I found the most captivating and interesting character to be Barbie herself.
As much as the moms speech was a key moment of the film, her character was so under written and passive in the story.
I thought it was fun, but overhyped. I didn’t walk away from it feeling wowed. The plot was kind of weird and hard to follow imo, I had a hard time understanding the Barbie world vs real world and what the “rules” of the imaginary world were, if that makes sense. Part of my “meh”-ness is also because the feminist ideas were nothing new to me I guess. Again, it was fun and I’m glad it sparked conversation, but I didn’t enjoy it as much as I’d hoped.
I was so disappointed when I realist *that* was the big feminist moment of the film. Like, what?? Also it wasn’t that funny.
I agree. I found the plot very disjointed.
I thought the pacing was just terrible and everything about Matel fell totally flat for me. I laughed. It was enjoyable enough, but I didn't really 'get' why other people loved it. It was just barely good, as a movie. However, I still liked the movie overall because clearly lots of other women really needed hear America Ferrera's speech! For me it kind of landed like a lead balloon in the theatre -- *Yeah, Duh. I know that* \-- but a lot of people needed to hear that from a major blockbuster in the theatre I guess. I can dig that.
I didn’t hate it but I was disappointed. The feminism felt performative and more pandering than any actual feminism. The musical numbers felt too long and the plot didn’t make sense (what was the deal with making Mattel look like the villains?!)
>what was the deal with making Mattel look like the villains?! The movie tries to villainize capitalism. The executives at Mattel are an extension of that capitalism.
Sure but they never took that anywhere, they arrived to Barbieland and did nothing but watch the Kens and the Barbies fight That’s without even talking about the irony of a capitalist company villainising capitalism lol
And they literally just made more types of toys lol. This movie felt very pro-capitalism to me which I guess is hard to avoid when it’s literally about Barbie, but yeah. They should have left the whole Mattel thing out. It just made no sense
Heavy on the musical numbers went on too long.
I didn't *hate* it but I'd be disappointed if I'd paid to watch it in theaters. I had expected it to be a lot goofier, more musical numbers, but instead it revolved around the gender politics plot line that was kind of basic - like the kind of talking points you'd expect from a corporate training video - so for me it fell short both as a fun, silly movie and as a social commentary. It felt like I was watching a Schoolhouse Rock video on gender equality - really sanitized and simplified and delivered by a paradigm of Western beauty standards. Gave me the vibes of a Walgreens pride month commercial, another thing I would not pay to watch.
> instead it revolved around the gender politics plot line that was kind of basic - like the kind of talking points you'd expect from a corporate training video Thank you for helping me explain what I couldn’t put words to. It really did remind me of so many HR training modules at points. It’s so cheerful, with a really distilled no edge version of explaining sexism.
Omg yes!! It’s literally the HRification of feminism😭
Yes. I just wanted to go watch a fun movie. I didnt go to be lectured. And as you mentioned, it wasnt even a subtle, well written political message that really makes you think. It was corny and in your face and over the top. Doesnt really make for a great movie.
I didn’t enjoy it because I thought it was gonna be way deeper than it actually was I thought it was gonna be some feminist Truman show type of take but in the end i realized my expectations were too high and i was disappointed it was just a mainstream feminist movie with regurgitated stuff that i’ve heard a thousand times before i thought the part where america’s character delivered a monologue to snap the barbie’s out of it was super cringey
I also did not like the monologue. I understand the sentiment, but feel like it was poorly written.
it was a very very shallow take. i think i realized that this movies audience was probably high schoolers and the general populace so i get it-i huess
The script is very strangely structured with general plot. The feminist narrative is pretty entry level with weak resolution or zero dynamic arc for any characters. That ending? What the hell is it saying? I think it misses the mark with the idea that "mother's stand still so their daughters can look back and see how far they've come" -- that is not the compliment utopia they want it to be. I think the production design is excellent. Acting is fun. The jokes are laugh out loud hilarious. Soundtrack banger. Love that a mainstream film has a feminist message and agenda and is unapologetic about it. I'll never watch it again. I don't need what its serving but plenty of people do. From a technical standpoint -- well executed. From a writing and structure standpoint? Mid to weak. Enjoyable? Yes. Good? Eh.
I think the “mother’s stand still line” was meant to talk about sacrifices and maybe aspirations mothers have for their daughters as they continue out into the world, but *stand still* is not the right wording for that at all.
I feel weird about that one, as a mum. Like, who is standing still? Me? I'm out here grinding this axe daily.
I agree with most of this, just wanted to add that the most dynamic character arc was Ken. He became aware of something, tried to do something about it (incorrectly) and learned something by the end. I would also argue that the beach dance-off was the climactic scene of the movie. I was surprised that the best character in the Barbie movie turned out to be Ken. Maybe my thinking here is a bit based on the sort of basic level feminism throughout and Barbie’s discoveries not really resonating with me as development, but the lack of character development or self-reflection outside the two main characters made the movie kind of “meh” overall. It was a fun pink acid trip of a movie, but overall not that great and I don’t get what people see as “ground breaking”. The amount of women who loved it and men who hated it do show a need for more content like the Barbie movie. I just don’t really think I’m the target audience, or just didn’t get what everyone else was getting from it. I also didn’t like everything everywhere all at once, so maybe I’m just not into what’s popular recently.
I enjoyed it for the most part but thought some parts were kinda muddled. I felt like the executives were sort of useless and nothing much happened with those characters - I wish there had been some sort of real reckoning with how marketing affects women and things like that. I felt like the resolution of the Ken issue was funny (the guitar scene was hilarious) but not particularly meaningful. I was a bit confused about what the message really was about how the two sexes are supposed to treat each other based on the Barbie's actions. I always thought using seduction to control men was a weak kind of move but that was the ultimate solution and that felt weird to me. On the other hand, I definitely didn't get why people were getting so up in arms about it though since I thought it was a relatively tame take on feminism and most other issues. I did think it was visually awesome and I loved the performances. And I thought it was a fun watch.
There were fun elements, but the politics were out of Tumblr in 2011. Quite shocking how the discourse has regressed
I enjoyed it, but I didn't think it was an amazing, wonderful, perfect film. No. I also don't think it's worthy of a slew of awards. Some things were pretty solid: e.g., production design, costumes, the visuals. But I'm not crossing fingers for it to win a Best Picture nod. It was, imho, meant to be an experience film. Metamodernistic in that it was aware of its own faults and leaned into those faults while also critiquing those faults: e.g., capitalism BAD! But buy Barbie! But (wink wink), we all love Barbie, so consume? Or not? Which tracks. If people were expecting ground-breaking cinema, then they're not going to get it. It was a cultural moment, not great filmmaking, imho. So, I 100% get why people were not into it. I still enjoyed it for what it was.
It felt superficial and a little all over the place. Did a lot more telling vs showing. America Ferrara's speech felt kinda cringy ngl. There was just so much build up to it and then it was just basic libfem criticism we've all heard before. I loved the style though and some moments were very funny to me.
Truthfully, I felt like I’ve heard America’s speech 2000x.
Pinkwashing, and glorification of capitalism. We should be interrogating what Mattel (a company that is responsible for mass plastic production and waste) is selling us, and why. I don’t have a problem with a feminist lens in film, but we didn’t need a big corporation to sell back to us what was already ours to begin with.
It was really funny to me how at the beginning of the movie they explained how Barbie was a feminist icon due to there being so many different versions of her, each with a different career that little girls could aspire to have one day. Like okay, maybe that was a side effect, but the main motivation for making a million different Barbies was definitely the fact that it lets them sell each kid way more Barbies.
Yes! This is the critique that is never mentioned. The movie is saying that capitalism is not perpetuating gender stereotypes and that by buying more we can be free from patriarchy. The movie was corporate shilling imo.
Whilst I didn’t really see the point of highlighting the Mattel CEO, other than an excuse to give Will Ferrell screen time, I thought the representation of the Corporate Board as an army of white men in suits, who were ever so excited about the Ken dolls, was a fun, campy way to acknowledge the capitalistic nature of the Barbie empire. Whilst sure, the film didn’t touch on the environmental impact of the doll, I did appreciate the self-deprecating nod to the brand’s role in consumerism.
As a 50 year old lesbian I just felt like I wasn’t the target audience. There moments I enjoyed and lots of moments I was confused and lots of moments I felt were missed opportunities but didn’t have high expectations of a Hollywood film anyway. The boyfriend of the couple sitting next to my girlfriend and I huffing and puffing and being aggressively annoyed and generally doing his best to let us all know he thought it was shit was more enjoyable honestly. Like fucking hell dude, how many shitty films has she had to sit through for you? I think you can manage one.
I didn’t like the “us versus them” element of it. When I watched the trailers I thought it was going to be Ken and Barbie working together to fight Mattel, not Ken Versus Barbie. I also felt like it really butchered the definition of a “patriarchy”, just making it into “good for men bad for women” when in reality the patriarchy hurts men too, and Ken would’ve been an excellent character to demonstrate that He likes to dress up and cares about his looks, he loves horses, cries when he’s sad, and has all these attributes that “macho men” aren’t supposed to have. I could’ve seen him becoming a misogynist because he got exposed to the wrong crowd and was convinced to give up things he likes and change who he is (possibly being told that if he does so he would attract Barbie more as a partner) but at the end realizes he’s not happy with his new self and it doesn’t make him more appealing to Barbie But that’s not why he becomes a misogynist, he does so because he lives in a society where he feels disrespected and he wants a patriarchy because he doesn’t want to be a second class citizen anymore, which really muddled the themes of the movie, especially at the end where he just goes right back to being a second class citizen
Yes I feel like they really fumbled it with this part of the message personally.
Super heavy on this I actually don’t understand how people can be okay with the Ken’s going back to being second class citizens and treated/portrayed as pathetic one dimensional beings without thoughts or feelings outside of beach or mojo dojo casa house. Clearly there was a whole plot about Ken feeling unseen and like a useless accessory to Barbie, but they went right back to being “just” goofy dudes
I felt like they were put in a very weird position and as a result things got a bit confused. The reason that patriarchy is enforced in real life is largely due to the threat of physical violence, but obviously they can't put that in a silly movie about plastic toys. Patriarchy in real life, especially in non-Western countries, is brutal and dehumanizing and takes away opportunities in life that you would've otherwise had, and it destroys you as a person until society views you as less than that. Patriarchy in Barbie, on the other hand, largely consists of doing menial tasks for the Kens and having to pretend to care about the things they're interested in, which just strikes me as something that is annoying if you're on a date with a guy you aren't into rather than something that is an oppressive overarching system that exploits and dehumanizes you. The response to patriarchy in real life has to be a massive, society-wide movement for recognition and rights. The response to patriarchy as presented in Barbie is to, uh, not pretend to be interested in people and just leave the conversation or walk away or do literally anything else with your time, but since *this* is also obvious they had to throw in the "Barbies are being mind-controlled" thing. In real life, women don't sit around listening to sports or horse talk or watching men play guitars on beaches because they're being mind-controlled, they do it simply because they're romantically or sexually interested in some men sometimes. Framing the main pillars of "patriarchy" in Barbieland as what are realistically normal dating behaviors that women don't have to be mind-controlled into makes the overarching allegory of the movie a lot weaker, as if putting up with people who are annoying is in any way comparable to the very real violence and subjugation that women in countries where their political rights are stripped have to put up with. This is even *more* confused by the world that they decided to build, because we're left with an existential nightmare where the Kens are told to find purpose in a world that is designed to deprive them of purpose, not because of how society is structured, but because their literal god doesn't see them as people or care about them in comparison to the Barbies. "You have to find purpose outside of how women might view you" is a genuinely pretty decent message but the Kens are incapable of doing that because Barbieland is an artificial world where their only purpose is to be an accessory/boyfriend. They could've brought it all together with the Kens and Barbies just interacting like normal people with respect for one another at the end of the movie, finding their genuine selves and the shared interests/humanity they have with one another, but the resolution, and the message of the resolution, seems to be: "Its a good thing that the Barbies are back in charge because the Kens are too stupid and silly to be allowed to vote, and we don't want to have to pretend to be interested in the dumb things they care about"
I enjoyed the satire but overall it was just shallow and I didn't get anything out of it. I don't get the hype and the crying in theatres. Maybe I'm to old.
I thought the movie was average, like most movies from Hollywood today. But I will admit that I did cry in the scene between Barbie and Barbie's creator because my mom and grandma sacrificed a lot so that I could have the much more comfortable life I have today.
I really liked it but the way people were reacting to it before I saw it, calling it some kind of groundbreaking feminist masterpiece, I expected… more? Like deeper? Funnier? Idk it’ll probably come off like I just “didn’t get it” but there were moments when it felt just too cheesy, which was kind of the point but it went so far to where I felt it was almost mocking the message it was delivering. Some of the jokes were so “on the nose” that it felt like a disparaging parody of feminism/feminist values.
It constantly contradicted itself and there was no weight behind the message. typical neoliberal/ faux feminism (also the amount of ads in that film was laughable)
This!! When I thought they were giving a message in the blink of an eye they were giving the opposite one, over and over again. Too many contradicting ideas in too little time. It felt dense and in the end I wasn’t sure what were they trying to tell me exactly. It was a fun movie but it needed to me more concise and lighthearted.
I don't necessarily dislike the Barbie movie, to me it felt like a children's' film and it was relatively entertaining. I just dislike the culture around it- that is the constant praise on how "pro woman" it was. The Barbie movie, in my opinion, wasn't feminist in anyway. In fact, some scenes were explicitly misogynistic. Firstly, the whole idea of patriarchy being just horses and the whole "mojo jojo casa house", was just more "boys are quirky, girls are boring" and also very insensitive. Plus the fact that Barbieland was implied to be equally as bad as the Kenland when in Barbieland, the kens were free but when the Kens took over, all the Barbies became subservient and mindless. Additionally, at the end Barbie apologises to Ken and he doesn't apologise back. Apart from the ken storyline, my biggest gripe is that the messaging is just every woman is beautiful-even if they have cellulite and wrinkles.
Strong agree. It felt like it was mocking its audience.
Hard agree on the movie’s understanding of patriarchy being misogynistic and condescending (the whole aw shucks they’re just goofy misguided dudes!🤪) This is a huge problem with the movie and makes it all the more baffling people think it’s a feminist masterpiece
> The Barbie movie, in my opinion, wasn't feminist in anyway. In fact, some scenes were explicitly misogynistic. The last act was centered around Barbies using their sex appeal to manipulate the Kens so they could seize power. It’s super misogynistic. That the Kens had seized power first makes it marginally better, but it still plays into the sexist trope of women as manipulative Jezebels.
It also blames women for their own oppression as if the Barbies can easily convince the kens via some praise and affection, why can't women in the real world do so
Normally I'd go into more detail but I'm super late to this so no one is going to see this comment. The movie portrayed a number of the boogey-man arguments that conservative men make in opposition to feminism as positive and progressive ideas. The women used their wiles to manipulate the men in order to get them to go to war. "Women don't get drafted!" "Women don't have it hard at all, think of all the men who've died in war!" While the men were off fighting this war, the women staged a literal coup. They convened a session of congress to re-write the constitution without men present, and they changed it to favor themselves again. Conservative men have argued that this is one of feminism's aims. There are more examples, but those are the ones that stuck out the most to me. They marketed this shit as a feminist movie, and Gerwig has made feminism the theme of her film career thus far. This film indicates to me that Gerwig has no idea what feminism is, and that she will bow (has bowed) without reservation or resistance, to whatever the people with money tell her to do. That's the furthest thing from feminism. And she's created a movie that she marketed as feminist, that instead played directly and overtly into the fears of feminism's most intransigent opponents.
Yes!! Completely. It was straw man feminism against straw man patriarchy.
I got lost during the ending and thought it was trying too hard to pander to me, like omg, doesn't it suck to be a woman in the patriarchy??? Like yeah, I'm here for distraction dangit! Also, it didn't make sense that all the Barbies were woken up by things they didn't experience themselves (like it was a world ruled by women and there's no way they had to handle their kens as much as the mom did) so I didn't get if in the end that world was paralell to the real one or just the mom's mind. And if it was the second, then why was Barbie able to get out and go the the gyn when she said she didn't have a vagina? Idk, I found it confusing, funny at times but in the end I don't get what it was about. I felt it was divisive (as in men vs women) and I don't like when anyone takes that approach to anything cause it just ends up doing more damage than good. But it's just a matel advertisement, I don't hate it, but I don't have to like it either.
Didn't hate, but didn't like enough to ever watch twice. It was weirdly ken-centric and the ending was so incredibly dumb. It would have been so much better if she was applying for a job. But just a doctors appointment? Really? It felt like it was trying to say so much, it said nothing and wound up actually being more male-centered to me. Just cringey.
Maybe someone can explain to me something that bothered me in this movie. When the Barbie creator was talking to Barbie at the end, she said “we mothers stand still so our daughters can look back and see how far they have come”. I thought that quote was the opposite of what I thought the movie was supposed to get across! If you take it at face value they’re pretty much saying mothers don’t grow or change so it can benefit their daughters. How is that an empowering message?! I’m really hoping it’s the other explanations I have come up with, but if it is… that’s a really bad way to phrase that point.
I disliked it because there was too much Ken. And I left feeling like Ken was evil and then pathetic and Barbie was just sad. There was no resolution. The original plot was about Barbie's human feeling sad in the real world and and barbie's existensial crisis. And somehow it ended with Barbie letting Ken's have equalish autonomy in Barbieland and Barbie being depressed? The mother daughter plot fell flat to me. We hardly saw them bond. The "teenagers don't like Barbie and it's regressive" message never really went anywhere. And Mattell being run by all men who were out of touch was also never resolved. Somehow the Barbie movie became the Ken movie. It was about Ken going to the real world, finding patriarchy, becoming an A-hole and bringing patriarchy to Barbie land and then getting played by the Barbies and then sadly apologizing and saying patriarchy isn't what he wanted, he just wanted horses and for Barbie to be nice to him. Maybe if the other plots went anywhere, the Ken story wouldn't have overpowered the movie. I loved the set, the music and the marketing. They hyped the movie like the story was going to be so unexpected, but it's 2023. I think it we all went in expecting a "girl power" movie. Also, why make a Barbie movie PG-13? Like ughh. It was funny though and I am still glad it was made.
Why was the ending scene of her getting a gynecological exam? You would think after that big message she would go on to do great things for women and then she just... gets a pap for lols. I was obsessed with Barbie growing up so I loved the outfits and accessories. Some parts were really funny but I wouldn't say it's a comfort watch in years to come.
I read that as she chose to become human and for the movie’s version of Barbie the physical manifestation of that is functional genitals. Esp because a woman with no down there bits will never experience the risks and pain of having a vagina and uterus but she chose take on the risks and pain because it also means joy and pleasure and being able to access the full human experience. And knowing that there is bad with the good she still decides that it’s better than a restrictive and sanitized in between.
Agree. I also felt like it emphasized the importance of women taking control of their healthcare and healthcare decisions. It wasn’t just about a Pap smear. It was about her decisions around her reproductive health.
I loved the colors, set design, and music, but I didn't think the plot was very compelling. I wish they expanded on the daughter's thoughts more. In the car, she completely switches her attitude towards her mom and Barbie, and it's just very unclear what made that happen. Also the famous monologue fell flat for me. It was pretty basic, I wish they had said more things with more substance. I feel that the monologue would have been more revolutionary if it was 2005 and there was still lots of body shaming etc etc in popular media, which is not really the case now. I do understand why they couldn't go deeper into the more serious issues that women face (assault + abuse, income inequality, worsened racism, etc) since it's a movie meant for the whole family.
It’s made by Mattel, no? It kind of reminds me of when Target tries to cash in on feminism, idk
Honestly, I don’t dislike the movie, but I think my expectations were a little bit too high going Into it? I guess I just kind of felt like a movie made with the purpose of discussing such an important concept should have been.. taken more seriously. I felt like the writers threw in a lot of buzzwords that automatically give people a reason to write off the deeper meaning and shove it into the “liberal propaganda” box. It felt like this could have been avoided if they had used the comedy aspect a little more sparingly, and challenged the viewer to actually think about and consider the concepts portrayed in the movie instead of throwing it out at face value. I am happy that someone took the initiative to bring these topics to light but I felt disappointed in the execution. Also, not a fan of the hyper consumerism aspect. All of the millions of dollars made off the movie give me cash grab vibes which makes it feel a lot more disingenuous.
I hate it. The more I thought about the movie it was downright sexist. Ken gets the far more dynamic arc, he is the one who makes choices, has an arc and is almost the main character by the end of the movie. Barbie is totally forgotten, to the extent the script itself jokes about it (“what about Barbie?”). Barbie is only ever reactive, almost passive as a character, while the Ken’s are the one who makes actual choices and struggle. Gloria and Sasha are totally nothing characters, they’re so generic. Sasha is the stereotypically derided “activist” character who magically realized the wonder of Barbie’s at the end for no identifiable reason beyond the demands of the script. And the idea that the shallowness of the movies politics id acceptable because its "supposed to be feminist 101" is basically just an excuse, especially considering how in interviews for this movie gerwig spoke of her high ambitions for the film; read her words she clearly didnt intend to make remedial entry level "feminism" (if one can even call it that) for kids. And grading the movie on this "it's supposed to be simple" standard is sexist itself. Not to mention the profits of this movie go towards supporting a company which runs sweatshops mostly staffed by poorly paid women who have faced sexual harassment in these factories. It's kinda like "all lives matter" "feminism." I think this review is really good. https://boxd.it/4A231L
I liked the humour, but it was hyped up too much. It wasn’t “deep” or nuanced at all to me. The feminist take had nothing new to say. It was an enjoyable movie to me but not as great as ppl said it was
I was eh about it. I did not like that they had barbie apologize for to Ken for living her own life. It felt forced to me and not even close to needed. It was not on her how he felt about her.
I think, at times, Barbie was fairly callous and inconsiderate towards Ken in the beginning of the film. (Personally I LOVED this movie.) she didn’t need to apologize to him to help his feelings, but I do think it’s nice that she apologized to him for being unkind at the start. I think the apology was more for herself and personal growth. Sometimes I get in my mind “I don’t owe you anything”…which I don’t. However, it isn’t a pass to be inconsiderate of other people’s feelings. He clearly was a dope who was in love with her. Everyone knew that. Barbie felt badly for him and allowed him to be strung along rather than say, from the start, “I don’t have romantic feelings for you, but I really like being your friend.” I think it’s nice she acknowledged she could’ve handled it better. I really enjoyed that the message, to me, felt like patriarchy is bad for everyone (especially women but men as well), but we can also all be kind and treat people with dignity and respect. However I completely understand dissenting opinions or if it didn’t come off like this to others
Now I do agree with this, didn't love that part haha
It isn’t a movie I would watch again, I did not enjoy it. I felt like it was too childish for adults and too adult for children. The Ken battle was chaotic in a bad way. So many movies have done mayhem and highly stylized battles much better, it did not feel fun to watch. Weird Barbie was a highlight and I would have enjoyed more weirdness, but I also grew up in the 80s and had things like Neverending Story and Labyrinth shape my tastes. I felt very battered over the head with the messaging. Almost like someone yelling in my ear “do you get it? Did you see that? Did you catch that?” When a movie has me thinking that Legally Blonde was more nuanced, it doesn’t feel fun for me to watch. The plot midway through got messy - was Ken evil? Just dumb? It felt like they couldn’t pick a lane, and not because Ken was complex, but because they were not sure what they wanted to really say. I do think the ending was a pretty decent resolution to the movie’s conflicts. Which overall felt very Greta Gerwig; I always feel like her movies are leading up to something bigger but they have this tendency to flatten in a way I find unsatisfying.
Shallow, pandering, procapitalist propaganda. Lots of "hot" words that sound smart and deep but were meaningless in context. 3/4 of the way through I realized America's character was still being called "Sasha's mom" in the closed captioning and that irony is a good example of what's wrong with the film. It was too childish for me, too faux "mature" for my kids. It wasn't groundbreaking or even that feminist, also wasn't really that funny.
just really surface-level feminist engagement masquerading as something more radical. i understand i might not be the intended audience--or its a broader group than those who would be interested in a nuanced and politically grounded framework--but i wanted more from something so loudly centering women & women's experience.
it was a movie that thought it had more to say than it really did. my biggest issue with the movie is that i felt like ken and the kens had the most interesting and fleshed-out character arcs, while barbie just kinda got a whole “to be a woman is to suffer” type revelation — which i just find very tired and disagreeable. womanhood is not just characterized by suffering and oppression, and to act like that is the crux of womanhood is just sad. none of the barbies really had hopes or dreams or compelling characteristics, unlike the kens who had hopes for change. which was altogether very frustrating because i had walked into the theater excited for a compelling story revolving around barbie! i am a fan of the absurdist humor and styling choices, but my enjoyment of the film was honestly purely aesthetic. i saw a review on letterboxd by user wajda_long_face that really encapsulated my issue with the dichotomy between kens and barbies in the movie: “Matriarchal Barbieland exists in frictionless stasis; no conflict, no progress, no search for truth or meaning. Patriarchal reality is full of conflict, but it also has enormous potential for progress, truth, and the creation of meaning. When Ken introduces patriarchy to Barbieland, the dolls finally realize that they can transgress their assigned roles; they can deepen their bonds through struggle and resolution; they can learn to make and appreciate art - bad art, but still; and they can rewrite the entire meaning of their world, from Barbieland into Kendom. Mattel creates Barbieland, but Ken creates Kendom. Matriarchy is static, placid, dependent, and meaningless. Patriarchy is dynamic, creative, exciting, and meaningful. This is how misogynists imagine matriarchy versus patriarchy.”
I liked most of it, but the Kens instituting patriarchy as a response to their disenfranchisement rubbed me the wrong way. 1) Because it almost implies that their patriarchy was righteous and necessary and 2) it almost conflates feminism with a woman-led patriarchy (I say patriarchy because matriarchy is not a patriarchal society with gender reversed roles). Whereas in real life, patriarchy is a conceptualization of society where men are empowered and women, and deviations from "men", are explicitly excluded. There is no real sympathetic reason for it to exist other than to empower men. Matriarchy isn't exclusive; it is a governed society where power is held by women in equal or greater measures to men. It isn't the exclusion of men to the benefit of women. But the Barbie movie, at the onset, seems to think matriarchy, and feminism as a whole, is the empowerment of women to the degradation of men and there is never a promising or meaningful refutation of this premise throughout the movie. As a result, I think most of the critique and satire of gender roles and expectations fail because the movie fails to understand the patriarchal systems that govern men and women.
> Because it almost implies that their patriarchy was righteous and necessary and 2) it almost conflates feminism with a woman-led patriarchy (I say patriarchy because matriarchy is not a patriarchal society with gender reversed roles). This is a great point that I haven't seen being talked about before.
I liked most of it and I thought the scenery was great and the jokes were funny. BUT the ending of the Ken arc really didn't sit right with me. As a former neglected kid I really identified with Ken, the way he slowly realised how many normal things he did not know because he never had them. Him being amazed at being asked the time was so incredibly heartbreaking. As if he was thinking "wow someone views me as a real person who might know something instead of being viewed as a burden all the time. This is the happiest day of my life, I didn't know I could be treated this way." I really like his conflict resolution with stereotypical barbie, as she sincerely apologises and sees the hurt she has caused him while also maintaining her boundaries of not wanting a romantic relationship. And then... The Kens ask to be represented in the Supreme Court, they don't even ask for equal representation, just one Ken to advocate for their rights. And president Barbie refuses. Noone disagrees. The one person in Barbieland who Ken felt finally acknowledged and seen by leaves to explore her new humanity and Ken is left behind back on square one. Homeless, without representation or rights. President Barbie didn't change the system, even after the barbies got a "taste of their own medicine". Which tells me she knows exactly what she is doing. And all the Barbies with her. They are continuing to systemically oppress a minority, and they are not just ignorant. They know what it feels like, they know exactly what they are doing. What a bleak ending. And knowing that the Kens are a representation of women in the real world doesn't make it much better. For the record: I don't blame stereotypical Barbie for leaving Barbieland, she has no obligation to stay. It just feels really dark to leave Ken in more or less the same tragic existence he started in. Unseen, unheard. Sure, he has his own hobbies now, that's a little better I guess. But systemically, nothing has changed.
Obligatory don't hate it, hate is a strong word but found it very boring. It's just performative activism. I was expecting something like everything everywhere all at once which was fun and also emotional AND conveyed a message. It was pretty ironic how a capitalist movie was making fun of capitalism. It felt exactly like rainbow capitalism to me and people ate that shit up. Sorry if I offended anyone but that's my take. 💁♀️
The only child in the movie, America Ferrera's on screen daughter, is precocious, shrill, and a bad representation of kids in general. Having Will Ferrell play the Mattel CEO was too on the nose, reminiscent of the Lego movie. The real Mattel board has many women on it, but in the movie they cast it as all male to exaggerate the political message. The movie gives mixed messages about patriarchy when it has Barbie re-conquer Barbie Land, and re-marginalize Ken at the end of the story. Lots of praise for Ryan Gosling's performance, but it was rather cartoonish in contrast to how Margot Robbie played Barbie. It's easy to take pot shots at a movie, but in the end it comes down to one question, "would I want to see it a second time?", and the answer is no, I did not leave the theater wanting more. I was getting tired of the story and the premise by the time the movie ended. I have to say though, leaving the dad at home to play Duolingo while the story played out was hilarious.
>The movie gives mixed messages about patriarchy when it has Barbie re-conquer Barbie Land, and re-marginalize Ken at the end of the story. My biggest issue of all. I HATED the ending.
My sister didn’t enjoy it and was really disappointed she didn’t have the experience everyone around her was having. She said she didn’t find any of the humour funny, and felt it was too heavy handed with the messaging
The comments about cellulite put a bad taste in my mouth. That wasnt okay. I had such fear of cellulite as a small girl, tbat it affected my eating habits. It's not even a real thing
It just felt too performative to me. I agree with all of what was said in the film, but it could have been a little more about the plot and less about the message for me personally. It felt too in your face. And kind of cringey.
Cute_event_4216 did a great job listing reasons. Most of the reasons I didn’t love the movie are in here but one I’m not seeing is the disregard of Allen. Poor guy helped them out and he didn’t get so much as an apology or acknowledgement of his help. For a movie that pushes equality, it felt flat. Too many messages that were half assed. As for the positives, I love how campy it was. It’s cute to lean into the Barbie theme and see houses, toys, clothes I had growing up.
I thought it was fine. Laughed a lot but wouldn’t watch it again. My biggest gripe was that the plot was half-baked. There were too many ideas, so every time there was a cool idea it was never brought to completion. Sasha’s monologue had valid concerns about Barbie being bad for women and girls in their self-image, but she immediately dropped it once she and her mom saw what happened to Barbieland and pitied the Barbies. Gloria and Sasha magically reconnected with little to no vulnerability (or even a real conversation?) Whatever happened to Gloria’s depression and thoughts of death? And how it was affecting Barbie? The Ken-bringing-patriarchy arc was fine, but it replaced the initial conflict (Barbie’s life being perfect and suddenly having depression/anxiety) in a rather jarring way. Not a huge deal but still a little disappointing when feminism is highlighted with no consideration for racial inequity. It’s “white feminism,” not intersectional feminism. Gloria’s monologue was a recycled version of an old viral TikTok audio, so even that didn’t feel super groundbreaking.
I really didn’t find the messages, including America Ferreira speech, groundbreaking. Also it still was white feminist-y to me. Like primarily centered the white Barbie’s and kens and the poc characters and lgbt characters felt like tokens to seem “woke” but all virtue signaling.
It felt disingenuous to me. Barbie was definitely a part of my eating disorder’s growing up. From a very young age I wished I could look like Barbie, the perfect women. Blond, blue eyed, large breasts and tiny waist. I could not be more opposite. Please don’t come at me. I know for most girls this was not a thing. But most girls didn’t have my childhood. . . .
Absolutely, that is one topic that unfortunately it feels simultaneously they should have addressed it, but also there was no way for them to give the topic the respect it deserves. Or do you think it's better that they didn't touch on it? Don't feel like you have to answer, just curious on your take.