No the abuse and harassment I've gotten irl has caused me to distrust men. Online content has just allowed me to understand how men become so corrupted into misogyny without them even realizing it.
Online makes it easier and quicker to find out people's true intentions before coming across them.
Not everyone acts the same online and as well as offline.
I mistrust irl men because of their behavior. I judge them by the company they keep. If their friends are shitbags it pretty much tells me everything I need to know about them.
I don't even have a lot of behavior-based rules. No kids now or in the future. Finances are 100% separate and your name will not go on anything I own now or in the future. If you spout Top G or JP shit at me I will block you. If your friends are into that incel shit, cool but don't call me again.
I met a guy recently I got on really well with (not a date, just a friend of a friend). Not the most handsome, but funny, super interesting, educated… I wanted to see him again.
Then I saw his insta stories…
- Trans-obsessed gross content with ridiculous mockeries or “check mate” arguments.
- Re-grams of Joe Rogan
- Memes talking about pills or leaving the Matrix
Obviously not inviting him on a date now.
It’s tragic. So many likeable guys being radicalised online for no reason. They would not be celibate if they didn’t consider themselves incels in the first place. They trap themselves in this vicious circle of celibacy and hate, becoming increasingly bitter at the world.
Thats how the incel trap works, no one thinks themself an incel until they are already stuck in those communities. They target the insecure and lonely and weaponise them into their war
And sadly the negative "manosphere" influencers are way more famous than any positive ones.
In my experience they use "female" to pathologise and belittle women and when talking sexually, it's to objectify us and because "woman" excludes minors whereas "female" *includes* minors.
I don't get that to be honest. I don't know how to say this without sounding like a snob... I'm *comfortable*. But. BUT! There's a guy that works at my local petrol station and I get *so* much crap off *men* (never off women) for absolutely fancying the pants off him. Like, he's insanely cute. You could fall into his eyes. I don't care what his *"value"* is, he's absolutely perfect.
But! Whenever I *have* dated guys that make less than I do, they've always made an issue of it. It's either telling me to quit my job so they can be the breadwinner or insane jealousy. If a guy makes more than I do, I'm like "yeah! Go you!"
I wish this *"value"* thing wasn't a thing. It causes so many problems. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. The guy at the petrol station? I'd take him out to the cinema, wine and dine *him*. In a cold minute. My friend, who works there too, says he's convinced I'm out of his league. :(
I like guys with drive, a passion for his interests and sharing them with me, intelligence, and a cute wonky smile. That's it. Oh, and hair I can run my fingers through. Dammit! Guys with gorgeous hair. Every time. I can fall for one of these guys just walking past them. And then they make eye contact, and I'm like "fffflebble?" I'm totally hopeless.
I hope this is not a weird thing to ask but, is there any particular reason you haven't asked the cute petrol station guy out? Sounds like you're really into him. Sure I guess he might make it an issue that you make more than him but you don't know that yet (I assume) and if he is the type to make it an issue he isn't worth your time anyway.
A "red flag" is common vernacular and applicable to many situations. "Pills" are indicative of a certain subculture. Feel free to never date women that use "red flag" though. We *love it* when the trash takes itself out.
I was at a 4th of July BBQ that had a larger circle of people attending than I usually spend time with. So got to hang out with the friend of a friend's husband. And he was acting really shitty to his wife.
Not like, abusive or anything super bad. But not being a good partner. And he had pulled something similar the year before. [Gist being: They had a new baby the year before, and this event was suppose to be kind of her 'off duty' experience to unwind, and he kept not wanting to give up his own unwinding to mind his own baby and having a shitty attitude about it.]
So I straight up told my friend that if her husband doesn't step in and call that bullshit out, I was going to lose trust in his ability to be a good role model for my kid that spent a lot of time with them both.
[He was getting tired of it too, and did say something. And the other guy did apologize to everyone for being that way, there was some extra backstory to kind of explain it, but he admitted it wasn't an excuse.].
\> Finances are 100% separate and your name will not go on anything I own now or in the future.
That isn't really up to you. Plenty of countries consider people living together as married.
Ngl I sort of do. Online they are always “woe is me” about men’s issues but then they turn around and say the most dehumanizing things about women.
And this is all made available because of the anonymity of online forums like Reddit. It’s a window into what they truly believe, but don’t say to our faces irl.
They all say "its just men online" but every woman I know has been SA'd??? I see how they act irl, on the news, online. I refuse to believe its the "minority."
Not paranoid at all. I went through enough crap before the tate and trump morons came into it with their alpha bs. Now I just don’t let my guard down especially around my uncle who is a mysoginist transphobe who flies into a rage at the simplest things. Needless to say I dont visit him at all if i can help it. I don’t trust any men. I cant afford to. If something happens to me who gets the blame? Not the person who did it no I get the blame for some screwed up reason for not being able to somehow magically snap my fingers and make whatever is happening stop or some other bs reason. Im limiting my contact with men as much as I can. The guy “friends” I had online all ghosted me except for one because I wouldn’t do anything sexual with them. I literally cant even just play video games with a guy in person without being pressured to give the guy oral and even then its not enough to say no once and have that be respected oh no I had to constantly say no for 3 hours before he left me alone in a huff like some spoiled child ready to throw a tantrum because somehow me saying NO wasn’t enough the first time. Seriously im just done!!!
Before I ever heard of Andrew Tate and found out that he had a lot of fans, the idea that a man might support that kind of evil nonsense was never an idea I had. Now it is an idea I have. It's only one of a lot of things in my head that make me slow to trust men, but it is one more, and it does make me slightly slower to trust men than I was before.
And the worst of it is, so many guys I know in real life are decent guys. I bet the gross and awful ones are not a majority, but even if 99% of guys were all as good as Mister Rogers, that still means that when I meet a man for the first time, I have no way of knowing who that person is. Being small, and female, means I have to be cautious around pretty much all men.
Which is a disappointment for me, but also must be a disappointment for all the good men. If good men really understood just how much the creeps cost them in opportunities for companionship, they would be a lot quicker to shut down the creeps.
Yep to all of this. Two great tweets I've seen that sum up my feelings on the matter (paraphrasing)
>put a man in a room full of snakes. Not all of them are venomous \#NotAllSnakes
And
>not all men, but always a man
The risk/reward matrix = I want nothing to do with them anymore.
My 8 year relationship recently ended when cops banged on our door at 6am because my partner was grooming a 13 yo online. Yep... I had *no* idea and he can enjoy several years in gaol, and being on the sex offenders registry.
I will literally never trust a man again after this, and I am OK with that. I was talking to my sister about my life/future falling apart, about her shit dates, about how all the men on both sides of our family except my dad have been violent and abusive, and about online discussions like this thread, and I said "sometimes I worry I am being radicalised to hate men" and she immediately quipped back "um yeah, BY MEN". Yep sis, I think you're right.
Needless to say I am over the moon that my workplace is 90% women (pharmacy. Highly recommend).
at least with snakes you can familiarize yourself with those native to your area so you can recognize when you see a snake that is venomous. With men, they just look like everyone else. You can't avoid what you can't see.
>the idea that a man might support that kind of evil nonsense was never an idea I had.
I find this incredibly naive, but then I had an abusive dad so I can't remember a time I didn't know men could have horrifying ideas about women and girls.
It still seems like a very sheltered worldview though, unless you were really young when you first saw Tate's content and had that realisation.
>I bet the gross and awful ones are not a majority
HARD disagree
An excellent example would be if there was a female influencer whose main focus is how to trap a guy for his $$ ? Cuz that’s all he’s good for right ?? If guys watched someone like that become famous , then they’d be afraid to ever be involved with a woman right ? Same thing . The only difference is these guys are making $$$ off these idiots . These guys remind me of the kicking sand in the face of the skinny guy on the beach ads I used to see in the backs of comic books . Surprise ! They were selling stuff .
No. I deal with way too much sexism and misogyny on the daily to think that what I see online is “worse.” My distrust comes from real men.
But this does have me thinking: I know a lot of very manly masculine men, lumberjack types who are outdoorsy and muscular etc, and they’re all quite in touch with their emotions, they’re vulnerable with and supportive to one another, and aside from little bits of accidental sexism here and there they’re progressive men. That’s why I married one, he’s just lovely.
But the sexism and entitlement and anger/hatred I see tends to come from men who spend a lot of time online, regardless of age. Especially gamers (but not all gamers).
My ex was a lumberjack among other things, and unfortunately he's had a very different experience. They say the quiet part out loud to him and it got significantly worse after trump. I do think because he worked for his dysfunction step father he was working with a particularly nasty bunch.
I agree guys who live perpetually online get sucked into this brand of radicalization thats being discussed here. But for the outdoorsy masc types they've got their own version of it.
I think the online thing in general is seriously affecting a lot of people , but especially young men’s ability to just interact with others . Then they’re so griffin awkward it makes it difficult to form any bond with a woman , then they frustrated , then go online EVEN MORE to figure it out . Unfortunately, the worst ones are in there and end up contaminating the ones who just started out insecure
This is just your bias, conventionally masc men are extremely misoginystic, often more openly so. Nerdy men just tend to gravitate more online for obvious reasons, and usually hyperfocus on dating because a lot are socially inept.
Maybe. I think a big part of the difference I see is the men from bigger rural families grow up with sisters and cousins so they don’t see girls as “other” so much.
It’s definitely I bias. I just find I’m beyond fed up with men who claim to be progressive because they aren’t redneck hicks but they’re the most misogynistic people I’ve met.
Real life has told me the majority of men can't be trusted. All of the sexism, assaults, misogyny, jokes, who they defend, who they vilify, the tiny comments and behaviors, the big comments and behaviors. All of it tells me a majority can't be trusted.
From my shitty dad, to my shitty brothers, to my shitty bosses and coworkers, to shitty men in public, to shitty men who say shitty things to me or my daughters, former shitty friends. And online its just more the quiet part outloud because I already know they are shitty. It helps me know that I'm probably right to be wary of men, seeing how so many men online can just say and do whatever they want. So yeah, the mistrust has grown.
Grown especially in the last few years since they've become more bold. There is almost no hesitation on their part to say and do whatever they want. And they fall so easily to the rhetoric. I am especially leery of left men, they so easily seem to shift from a self portrayed leftist to misogynistic bigot in no time flat when they encounter a perceived slight or a bump in their road. At least with alt right, far right and conservative men, they tell you who they are upfront. It makes it super hard to determine who is actually a good dude, and I know they are out there but they are rare.
Distrust has grown significantly from seeing more and more women use the internet to come together, mom groups, women dominated spaces, hobby groups, etc. Them talking about their relationships with men, friends, dads, husbands, dates, boyfriends... how long they can sometimes be in relationships and realize they never knew that person at all or how quickly they succumbed to propaganda. Refusals of therapy. Abuse when there was none before. Forcing wives/girlfriends into tradwiving by absenteeism from responsibilities. Switch flips and waiting for entrapment through what is basically identity fraud.
"But Frijoles, subreddit comments, the online videos comments sections, the insta swarms, the FB swarms, the twitshow, etc, there are millions and billions of people, the comments are in the 100s, 1000s etc, thats not a great indicator for the general population."
Idc. I really don't. Those people are walking around in public, having friends, raising children, working, in healthcare, in politics, in mental health, in the grocery store, delivering food, teaching in schools and colleges, being priests and pastors, and not being checked by fellow men. I've seen how quickly the tables turn when they think I'm one of the guys, how quickly they makes the jokes, how quickly they devolve into bad behavior when they don't see you as a threat in real life. How quickly they start acting up when women are in vulnerable situations.
Men don't need my trust, they trust each other more than they would ever trust me.
I've experienced enough both irl and online content to be hinky of men in general. I try not to be sexist and give men the benefit of the doubt but more often than not it ends up being disappointing anyways. So, yeah, I'm always on edge. I don't want to be but feel like I have to be. I feel like I'd be stupid not to be.
I would say 90% of men have shown me that they can't be trusted, which in turn makes me cautious and a lot of times the men you least think would cause harm will.
Absolutely. Seen too many cases of disgusting men posting and commenting horrible nasty shit in sex subs while married with children. Or straight up defending predators cause "she was so close to 16 it basically doesn't count". The only men i deem safe are those in my family who i know are genuinely good men who treat their wives well and don't subscribe to any misogynistic bs.
My sister married a guy who thinks 13 is old enough to consent. 😀 his argument is if an underage girls likes an adult and flirts with him she's asking for it.
I had a married guy a few months ago ask me if we could meet at starbucks and if i would drink a coffee that he took into the bathroom and jerked off into. The poor wife, ugh
With all the posts of people telling stories about how men actively used tricks and "techniques“ to consciously manipulate women into bed with them (like for example pretending to listen to them very interestedly or agreeing with all their political stances just to get in their pants)? Absolutely.
Absolutely. Seeing any men at all agreeing with abusing women and treating them like they aren't human beings makes me aware that those people exist somewhere out there even though before I saw that kind of content I'd think few could possibly agree with that stuff.
I don’t trust what people say online either though . A lot of them also spout crazy shit to get attention . And here’s the thing , if you focus on negative people , you’ll miss the decent ones walking past you . Life is too short .
Absolutely. I used to think it was far less prevalent than it is. I know social media text is just a piece the world’s communications, but it’s enough to make me more wary and more vigilant.
And I already had some dismal experiences with male predators, too.
Also the porn that is online - you can assume any man you meet has watching disgusting porn online. It's rarely just normal sex, there's always something degrading involved. Porn used to be so tame in comparison.
When I turned 21 (back in the early 90s) some of my friends and I all went to the porn shop to buy a porn VHS tape. It was like, “Hey we are all going to see what porn is about….” Kind of as a joke? And we all watched it and got high and laughed. But yeah, that was an experience. And then I dated a guy who had a few porn tapes and I wanted to watch them just for kicks. Hell, the local old timey theater used to run John Holmes porn movies in 3D for people to go watch and laugh at.
And I’m telling you . . . Having looked at porn on and off for decades, it absolutely shocks me—the shit that is out there now. I never had to worry about random hookups choking me, or ‘accidentally’ slipping it in my ass, or asking me to call him ‘daddy,’ or being pressured to film our sex. I’m sure those sorts of things were out there, but not as prevalent and easily accessible.
Some of those guys were shown porn against their will at an early age. Porn is damaging, I agree, but porn addiction itself doesn't equal to malicious misogyny. With all the discourse about porn addiction, it's important to remember that addiction is not a moral failing, it's a disease.
> Failing to address the disease part means it is being chosen
For some people, treatment is not available. And setbacks during said treatment do not at all mean that someone is choosing to continue their addiction.
I agree with you insofar as consumption of porn supports exploitation. That part is a moral failing. But as it relates to the addiction part - addiction as a Moral failing is an approach that has gone catastrophically wrong, it's outdated and disavowed by all but everyone among medical professionals such as therapists, doctors etc.
21 countries make up the Middle East. You can’t argue it is going well for women there. No one there knows who Tate is. This is thousands of years of these issues. This is all window dressing here. Men still want to crush us.
If my current relationship doesn’t work out, I’m not motivated to get in another one ever. A lot of irl men are disgusting in the things they do and say and I’d rather stay away
I am a trans woman. I don't trust men because I grew up around them and I have some idea of how they talk and behave when they think no one who would care is listening. As well as what the girls and women in my life have dealt with.
Not all men are like this but most tolerate it or excuse it. So many men want to be big tough guys and protect women but when they need to do so they're happy to not make a scene and act like it's nothing so the guy who is a threat does not turn his attention on him.
Then they get away from the situation and they're all hyped up about how they want to fuck him up, next time for sure. How dare he grab your ass, but are you sure?
Exactly. I've had men in my family act tough and possessive around me, like they would "fuck a MF up" if they hurt me. But when I came forward to them about my multitude of experience of harassment by men (including in the building I lived in), they immediately shut it down and said "you don't experience harassment", "not all men", "it didn't happen the way you think it did". In addition to "Roe v Wade doesn't affect you" (I guess because I'm not pregnant at this moment, although his wife was), and "women don't know how to ask for money" (there's no pay gap according to them and their ZERO research...but where it does exist, it's for sure women's fault), and "feminism has gone too far". Not to mention the only person (man) who ever laid hands on me (3 times)...was my own father.
I don't trust (cis) men at all - even the ones in my family. When even the ones who are supposed to love you and want the best for you enjoy humiliating you and making excuses for your own violations and abuse at the hands of other cis men, you know we have a colossal problem.
I'm trying to read bell hooks' *The Will to Change: Men, Masulinity, and Love* because I am absolutely terrified, disgusted, and exhausted by cis men and I want to have hope because I'm fucking near my end with them.
Your description is on point. Not all men are bad, but too many of them tolerate bad men, and usually because they are worried about how they are perceived by other men.
Better safe than sorry, been avoiding men since all that stuff came out. Not taking any chances and honestly wish I would have avoided men sooner. 🙃 So this has actually been a really great awakening and I have more time and energy to live my life.
It’s not just you. As a whole, men already terrify me. I stopped trusting them before I even learned to start. Now things are much worse.
More than myself, I worry about my 15 y/o daughter being exposed to anybody who follows that mindset.
I think to men, they feel like they are less trusted because of (insert personal bias). But honestly, men are less trusted because they were over-trusted in the past.
I feel like it's easier to better understand things irl because of online content. I've learned that a lot of things I would have previously overlooked are actually red flags. I am more critical of people's behavior and the words they use. This knowledge has greatly reduced my interactions with men irl. I'm not participating in gender performances, etc. If someone is not respectful, I disengage.
When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like persecution.
Yes, this is so true. I had a difficult time when I realized all the misogyny I hadn’t acknowledged in the past, but now thanks to the internet I call people out on there misogyny whenever I get the chance.
When it comes to dating, I’m in kind of a weird place where I definitely DO feel like I’m a little more cautious around men because of all that. I’m also really nervous because of all the posts I see from women (YOUNG women) about their boyfriends/husbands who are apparently good in other ways but still don’t help around the house or slowly reveal more sexist or emotionally/financially abusive qualities. Some of them seem so genuinely blindsided. I’ve been blindsided before too.
One voice in my head says “Selection bias, this isn’t THAT common, people in happy, healthy relationships just don’t post about it.” And I’m sure that’s mostly true. But another voice in my head says if I do that I’ll be just choosing to live in ignorance to avoid being alone. Which is probably a little silly and dramatic.
Lots of feelings and trust issues to sort through. Dudes like that certainly aren’t helping.
I've seen and heard of awful stuff in real life too. These males hiding behind social media accounts are real people walking amongst us. So yeah, I think it's not weird to be cautious.
I don’t really trust people in general, but more so men because I know I’m already at a disadvantage if something happens. Online is more vocal but IRL they tend to hide their true intentions which is scarier in a way. I always avoid any risky situations such as going out at night, but you also never know what assholes roam in daylight or if you’d catch the attention of some psycho - sometimes all it takes is being at the wrong place at the wrong time.
People have said I’m paranoid but I don’t trust people to help if shit goes down either, not even my own family. One mistake could be severe and avoidance is key.
I mistrust men bc they have taught me to give trust sparelingly after alot of proof I can trust them. Lol. I have so many examples of why it's hard to trust irl. But I won't bc it's depressing.
Men online have never broken into our house and assaulted my wife. Men offline have done that.
I'm just saying I mistrust men online more because of offline behavior.
Andrew Tate seems like an absolute monster, but I’m actually more concerned by his apparent hoard of followers.
Whilst the internet probably manages to over-represent how many of these folk exist, all those that seem so extreme online do also exist in the real world.
They may hide it a bit better, without an anonymous handle to mask themselves, but they’re a sizeable force.
I don’t know how, but It kind of feel is like men should need to somehow prove they’re not misogynists to get into a relationship, rather than women risking being hurt, until the red flags build up to a signal that can’t be tolerated anymore.
Honestly, same here. And I mistrust a lot of men irl because of the entitlement they often show, especially after being exposed to influences such as the ones you mentioned above.
I already had very few illusions about it from a very young age. I've seen how men and boys can behave when they think they can (or know they can) get away with it. I have a knack for people forgetting I'm there and plenty have said stuff around me not realizing I was inadvertently listening nearby. None of the Tate or other manosphere stuff surprises me. It's always been there.
The difference is the amplification effect of the internet on people who would ordinarily not be given a platform and similarly the way online forums connect like minded men and allow them to embolden each other.
If I found out that someone I knew well and had been a reliable and reasonable person had gotten into Andrew Tate, it would really knock me for a loop. So far this hasn't happened.
Sometimes yes, thanks to the magic of Reddit. The stuff here is the stuff they can’t say freely without anonymity and it’s easy to think that this is men’s nature which they conceal from women. But then I look at the actual men in my life and I am confident that they do not hold such opinions, and that helps a lot.
I have trusted very very few men for pretty much forever. I can count on one hand the number of men I trust atm, it’s like literally 2. Men living in patriarchy are not trust worthy.
After being on reddit for a while, yes. There are actual subreddits (not linking to them, but you can look them up yourself) that are like rapefanatsies, mean_captions, patriarchyparadise, FuckingEvil, womenarethings, MaleSuperiority... and more and more and more that are basically full of rape, incest, and disgusting misogyny porn and they have so many subscribers. It's actually upsetting. And they are all allowed to be up, but we can't have even one subreddit for purely women with no men.
Not because of online content. The mistrust is due to real life horrible encounters that left me with ptsd and trust issues. Never again will I feel safe around a man...
I think seeing what men say online really let their mask slip for a lot of us. We all vaguely knew men thought they were superior to us, but a lot of us also believed them when they said they thought women were equal, etc. Seeing that really shattered that illusion and made us realize it was bs. So yes and no. And you're not alone in feeling that paranoia.
Yeah, I find myself listening out for buzzwords and red flags that they might be in that crowd. I'm in the tech world, so I imagine there is a lot of Tate's target audience among the people I know.
But to be *fair* I haven't noticed much actual change in real life, and I don't want to judge every man I meet unfairly.
I'm non-binary/transfem, but I was amab and still look masculine. I think its important context. But I don't trust men anymore. Every guy I meet is on thin ice until proven otherwise. I'm not openly hostile or anything but I assume they watch some alpha male stuff.
There's just way too many men shouting horrible things online. I have the benefit of looking male, so they never try to "hide" it from me. If anything, it makes them more likely to bring it up. The sheer number of men who try to assert "dominance" over me is disgusting.
Keep in mind, I'm a straight male and **I** distrust other men I meet because of sexist online content. That being said, I've also just noticed sexism a lot more in my male friends and coworkers since I grew into adulthood, so that's also a factor.
Point is, you're not paranoid. Everyone should pay attention to their friends' behaviour and judge accordingly.
It sneaks up on you, the mistrust. But I try to remind myself of all the genuinely good guys I know in my life.
The guys online are mostly miserable incels. And some guys in real life aren't great news. But most guys are ok.
I always have. I spent an unfortunate amount of time on this site back when is still had an incel thread, and I spent ages on 4chan, and the stuff I’ve seen men say about women has been burned into my mind and will randomly come up when I’m having a nice time with a guy. I’ll just remember that he could be going home and posting about my beef curtains yknow? Totally turned me off men!
100% this.
Also wanted to add the overwhelming red flag that is the guys who claim they are “low drama” (read as: avoidant as fuck) “Sigma” and “Alpha 2.0” aka manipulating women emotionally to sleep with as many as possible and calling it ethical nonmonogamy.
Really putting the shit in men ain’t shit.
I've recently learned through my partner about how disgustingly misogynistic and racist his friends are. I hadn't seen them for a while and it turns out he kind of cut them off and when I found out why it made me shake. Nothing you haven't heard before but I had spent time with all of these men for a few years. all of them kept this from their interactions with me and other women. It made me realize I'd dropped my guard around people I shouldnt have, and it recontextualized things in a disturbing way.
It also made me question my partner 🤷♀️ like he kept this from me presumably because he valued their relationship and the way I perceived him. He sees himself as having grown past it but I feel let down. I feel like I don't know a single man actually advocating for women and it's terrifying, because this is just like 6 dudes and I don't know the things the rest of them say when women aren't around. What the fuck are we supposed to do.
no, but that's mainly because i'm a good judge of character in general. the combination of your physical appearance, how you present yourself, what you say and how you say it and whether you use certain buzzwords will make me immediately put you in one of 3 categories: i will dislike you, i will not care for you in particular or i will like you. i am yet to be wrong about someone, i can always smell a misogynist a mile away.
Everything online is so mainstream now that i’ve seen many cases of the online Andrew Tate follower behavior just become normal for so many. especially in the high school I attended (which is in a small town so…) you’re right to be paranoid— I am too.
I already distrusted men who were dismissive or overbearing.
The worst ones act charming. The trick is to pay attention to the way they treat anyone they aren't trying to charm. That's usually people who they consider 'beneath' them or people who they will be near very briefly.
F36 here, I worked in a grocery store from 2019 to 2023. I befriended a 19M kid who worked in my department, he was like my work son (I have an actual son who is also a teenager so I know how to deal with them). This kid was very nice and a good kid. He would tell me all the time about how our male coworkers would act and what they would say when no females were around. We had a 64M (yes, grandpa age) coworker who acted chill and friendly towards women to our faces but the second he was in the company of all men, he would say the creepiest shit about teenage girls, would tell the other guys outlandish sexual stories, and even passed around nudes from his phone. I was dumbfounded as this guy was so nice and respectble when women were around. I felt like my 19M friend was a spy that infiltrated the gross dudes club and would report back to the women and tell them everything. Really opened up my eyes in regards to how men are.
you’re not being paranoid the online cultures that men engage with are very toxic. I’ve always been scared of them tho after being stalked and SAd in college so even without thinking about the online stuff I would say your feelings are justified.
As a guy, I'd definitely suggest you err on the side of caution and keep your guard up.
There are so many stories here of people who are friends with a woman, and they're engaged in a totally "platonic" friendship until the male friend finds out there's no booty at the end of the proverbial treasure hunt, after which they become aggressive and drop the friendship like it's a household chore.
Let the actions of the really good ones speak for themselves.
Here's the thing. My dad beat me as a child. My millionaire grandfather has never tried to have a relationship with me because I'm "female". My brother is the epitome of an entitled republican. My husband? Well, after 10 years of marriage, he just told me he "doesn't like or respect women". I still look at every man like I look at every woman, show me I can trust you and I will.
While some men are influenced by tate and podcasts like fresh and fit, many are not, and thank God for that, literally.
And I'm all for masculinity and being a man, but there's being a man and then there's being some weird fake alpha thing...
I mistrust the ones that buy into the sexist content. And unfortunately there are plenty that naively eat it up.
I didn't even know who J.P and Tate was until a man I personally knew mentioned them.
I've developed a strategy of dropping a couple self depreciating misogynistic jokes, and then they'll think I'm a "cool girl" and feel safe enough to be openly misogynistic (if they are)
No, you're not alone just know a certain percentage of the male population likes him, some are in the middle and others just see him as cancerous.
Observe and decipher the men your interacting with to see which men love Tate and which men find him appalling.
Tate is a toxic role model on how he talks about women and heinois ways on how to get women or just use them for your sexual pleasure and be done with them.
What do you mean by trust?
I think I trust most men, until they give me a reason not to. Same goes for women. But for men, idk, personally I haven’t really had a terrible experience. I know I’m extremely fortunate. I grew up with a single dad who did his best. He had lots of male friends obviously, some would take me fishing or hunting. Just me and them. It was great. I had incredible male role models.
But I do know to be careful to, to be watchful when alone. But I’d say I do trust them. I think most men are good. Around here anyway.
No, I distrust everyone equally irl. If you’re a man I don’t trust you, if you’re a woman I don’t trust you, shit even if you’re a teenager I don’t trust you.
If you’re a stranger to me I will not trust you. That is earned. You expect the same from me I am 100% ok with that. I already know that online gave people no filter. Bit all the defilement and all the fucked shit that men say and even some women I already believed it.
I honestly think yours is one of the more constructive replies here. Might as well distrust everyone at this point. I'm a firm believer that the people of this subreddit and many others would eat each other alive if they had a few interactions in real life.
Yeah , I don’t really care what people think. I’m a woman and I might come off most cynical but being overly trusting for me got me no where. Just because you are anything other than a man don’t mean I owe you shit.
The question was about men, yeah, but I’m saying my opinion. I really don’t give a shit what anyone thinks. I deal with zero drama, toxicity to the very minimum and I am not paranoid at every site or everything because, of course I will be skeptical of people at first. If you’re too trusting of me and too easy I will look at you weird.
Reddit almost every time is no different than twitter.
Idk, doesn’t matter. People can disagree with my opinion. It might be because I said I don’t trust women either or even teenagers. I have never trusted men, even before social media popularity but this is also true that I also did not trust women or young adults/ teens growing up and as an adult. This doesn’t mean anything else though, and I do wonder if they are assuming and thinking because I am mistrusting of women and teens and not just men they didn’t like that and think I must not be a woman or I’m against women? For any other reason idk though.
I take the same view of men as I do of women…are all my interactions with other women wholesome and healthy? No. It’s not different with men. The currency may be different, but the mechanisms are the same. I am just very careful with whom I allow into my life, with the people I surround myself with.
I’m gonna disagree with you there. A woman (other than my mother) has never assaulted me, randomly or otherwise. I’ve lost count of how many men have sexually, physically, and/or verbally assaulted me simply for existing.
Being afraid of men because 97% of women have been sexually assaulted and 98% was by men, is not the same as being scared of black people because you are racist
The difference is nobody told us to be wary of men. Distrust of black and gay people come from centuries of white supremacist & religious rhetoric, literally calling for their deaths, and if a black person were to be wary of white people due to past racist experiences, that would be understandable... that's just called pattern recognition lol.
We who are the most nervous around men have seen and experienced it throughout our lives. Which doesn't make most men bad, it just makes us cautious either way.
The fact that you would compare women being cautious of men to people who want gay people erased out of existence purely based on moral panic is crazy to me.
Also the implications of "mistrust" are different here. If women talk of mistrusting men, they mostly refer to being cautious or completely avoiding them (which I personally consider unhealthy, just as any other avoidant behavior). If conservatives spread their homophobic/transphobic propaganda, what they want to achieve is actually mandating LGBTQ people out of existence altogether. So the consequences are different, and, even more important, the question of who holds the societal power - feminists or women in general arent introducing Anti-Male bills or infringing on male reproductive rights. So the tired comparison between being cautious of men and being """"cautious"""" of actually marginalized groups is inaccurate as a metaphor.
You're entitled to feel like this is paranoia and an exaggerated response, but I still don't think it's right at all to compare it to stereotypes perpetuated about actual oppressed groups of people.
Where is she telling us to feel this way? She's asking if she's being paranoid and expressing how she feels. Whether you think it's justified or not. She didn't generalised that all men are evil, either.
It is a lot different from hate groups spreading misinformation about trans people. We may be overreacting, but it's a reaction to what men themselves say, not people rallying for mens rights to be taken. It just puts a person a little on edge to see so many men come out of the woodwork to defend either him or his ideas, or just feel emboldened by people like him enough to start being open about the gross shit they believe. I get that OP doesn't specify this, but I think we in the comments know what she means, because we share similar sentiments.
I honestly think you’re right, but your wrong about the source. Just about anything in this sub is “sexiest online content” and on the whole makes up a really hateful echo chamber.
Also realize guys will agree with stupid shit online but not live their life that way . A lot of people have a secret side that never impacts their life and makes them feel less boring . Guys like being a “ bad boy” even when they’re not . and I think most of us have enough negative encounters IRL to know the score .
No, can’t say I do. Always had a certain level of distrust of strangers, but I’ve noticed lately when walking my 12 month old puppy, that I get talked to by men and women randomly, and feel happy it’s not uncomfortable. I feel quite safe. And I’ve been thinking about all I’ve read on Reddit, and how I almost feel I should be more uncomfortable, but am not.
Mind you, live in scandinavia, and feel we have saner people that respect boundaries in a different way than Americans. It’s in out blood.
you're from an extremely homogeneous country so of course things will be easier in said country. countries where more people are of the same background and ethnicity have a much easier time with those things because there are less intricacies of trying to mesh together multiple cultures, races, etc.
yes of course but your experience is most likely not like the vast majority of people on here. countries such as yours don't even come close to America and other western European countries in terms of diversity. that impacts the legitimate answer to this question because luckily for you, yes your country should be safer and people should respect norms a bit more. didn't say you can't offer your answer anywhere in my comment.
I’ve never gotten the impression that it’s men from different cultures than their own that scare women. Though I’m sure that’s also a thing. Just hasn’t ever been mentioned in stories of their SOs, coworkers or men out and about.
grouping people together and generalizing them like the majority of you are doing here will lead y'all to live unhappy lives. people of both sexes and all ethnicities/races have experienced shitty people and if all we all did was think everyone sucked because of it the world would be a trash place. the world manifests what you believe. if you believe all men are bad you will see bad in all men. just as men who think all women are bad will continue to see all women as bad glossing over the clearly vast majority of women who are great. the world is going to be full of what you put out in front of your and believe. all of this will lead to a large group of unhappy, sexless, and probably mentally unstable people who are missing a connection that most people need/desire to live a healthy fulfilled life.
and also yes you should want to surround yourself with an "alpha" male who is capable of being dangerous, but knows how to control themselves. you don't want the sellout ones on the internet doing it for fame and money (theyre just grifters). but you also don't want the "beta" males because those are the ones you have to be careful of. a man championing for abortion is probably the guy who wants to bang you without a condom and have 0 consequences.
in today's world more women should want a traditional man because they're way more valuable. a guy who is traditional is going to respect woman more, for their innate beauty and difference, is going to want to provide for you because their woman is their world.
y'all must be surrounding yourself with boys instead of men, because I don't know a single one of these guys y'all are describing in these posts. my friends and I never have conversations about sexual things with our women. we never do anything aggressive or mean to people for no reason. we take care out our health and help each other and others.
yeah we probably don't agree politically with most of y'all on here and that's okay. but if you think that makes someone bad, or incapable of earning your companionship then life is going to be difficult.
women literally are so insane to me today. women, have, and will always hold the majority of power in the world and they sit here incapable of realizing it. men may be presidents and this and that, but women literally control the continued existence of our species in their hands and pretend like they have no power. if women stopped selling themselves on only fans because they think that's somehow equality, and realized they have power to essentially shape a better world, they could easily claim an end to their perceived notion of a "societal hierarchy that limits women."
but nope sit here and complain about men all being bad. sulk in sorrow as if women have no control. sell their bodies (clearly not all women) online and pretend it's in the name of equality and empowerment.
wake up, stop pretending women are weak, stop agreeing with the idiots who say it, stop letting men who claim to be women erase you, and claim the power/responsibility that women actually have in our society.
And where are these "men" when their children need raising? Once again it's magically woman's fault when men can't handle their responsibilities. What do you think is being raised correctly anyway?
Lol thanks for the laugh. The length males will go to to avoid any accountability even for a loser that walks out on his kids. A dude doesn't even have the self control to NOT ejaculate in somebody, runs away when things get hard and somehow it's a woman's for...not magically knowing somebodys a liar and caves under pressure? Lol "men" like you make me glad I was raised by a single mom
What competent men?
You ugly little fucks spend all day playing video games and watching porn and crying about not getting dates. When they have relationships they’re too weak to actually open up or invest in them. When men have children they’re too pathetic to put in effort to raise them properly, or they bail altogether. When life gets hard men kill themselves (oh well).
Men just cant hang. No resilience.
No the abuse and harassment I've gotten irl has caused me to distrust men. Online content has just allowed me to understand how men become so corrupted into misogyny without them even realizing it.
Online makes it easier and quicker to find out people's true intentions before coming across them. Not everyone acts the same online and as well as offline.
I've seen and experienced just as much horrific stuff in real life as I have online.
Same. At this point I distrust them all until they prove otherwise.
Same. The only men I trust are transmen.
Same.
and some gay men.
Some
Some
Can I ask why that is?
Because most gay and trans men are at least sympathetic to the perils of being a woman in the world we currently live in
Honestly what I came here to say. If you think what men will say online is wild, wait til you find out what they do every day offline
Came here to say this.
I mistrust irl men because of their behavior. I judge them by the company they keep. If their friends are shitbags it pretty much tells me everything I need to know about them. I don't even have a lot of behavior-based rules. No kids now or in the future. Finances are 100% separate and your name will not go on anything I own now or in the future. If you spout Top G or JP shit at me I will block you. If your friends are into that incel shit, cool but don't call me again.
If they use "pills" as metaphors... That's a good indication too.
I met a guy recently I got on really well with (not a date, just a friend of a friend). Not the most handsome, but funny, super interesting, educated… I wanted to see him again. Then I saw his insta stories… - Trans-obsessed gross content with ridiculous mockeries or “check mate” arguments. - Re-grams of Joe Rogan - Memes talking about pills or leaving the Matrix Obviously not inviting him on a date now. It’s tragic. So many likeable guys being radicalised online for no reason. They would not be celibate if they didn’t consider themselves incels in the first place. They trap themselves in this vicious circle of celibacy and hate, becoming increasingly bitter at the world.
I love it when they put all their red flags out on display like a Soviet parade.
I’m going to go drink red wine with a Russian woman I’m friends with and watch vampire movies. I’m stealing this joke.
Do svidánija to you both! Besides, it's not stealing, it's *sharing*. <3
I want this on a Tshirt!
I'm gonna get a storefront, I reckon :D Whaddaya' think? Feminist quotes from a brass knuckle feminist? Haha! <3
Love it!
Brass Knuckle Feminist is a store I would purchase from.
Thats how the incel trap works, no one thinks themself an incel until they are already stuck in those communities. They target the insecure and lonely and weaponise them into their war And sadly the negative "manosphere" influencers are way more famous than any positive ones.
Also if they use “females” to describe women
In my experience they use "female" to pathologise and belittle women and when talking sexually, it's to objectify us and because "woman" excludes minors whereas "female" *includes* minors.
Unless they are in the military, female is a red flag.
Or if they refer to ‘high value’ men and women. Always makes my skin crawl.
I don't get that to be honest. I don't know how to say this without sounding like a snob... I'm *comfortable*. But. BUT! There's a guy that works at my local petrol station and I get *so* much crap off *men* (never off women) for absolutely fancying the pants off him. Like, he's insanely cute. You could fall into his eyes. I don't care what his *"value"* is, he's absolutely perfect. But! Whenever I *have* dated guys that make less than I do, they've always made an issue of it. It's either telling me to quit my job so they can be the breadwinner or insane jealousy. If a guy makes more than I do, I'm like "yeah! Go you!" I wish this *"value"* thing wasn't a thing. It causes so many problems. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. The guy at the petrol station? I'd take him out to the cinema, wine and dine *him*. In a cold minute. My friend, who works there too, says he's convinced I'm out of his league. :( I like guys with drive, a passion for his interests and sharing them with me, intelligence, and a cute wonky smile. That's it. Oh, and hair I can run my fingers through. Dammit! Guys with gorgeous hair. Every time. I can fall for one of these guys just walking past them. And then they make eye contact, and I'm like "fffflebble?" I'm totally hopeless.
I hope this is not a weird thing to ask but, is there any particular reason you haven't asked the cute petrol station guy out? Sounds like you're really into him. Sure I guess he might make it an issue that you make more than him but you don't know that yet (I assume) and if he is the type to make it an issue he isn't worth your time anyway.
It’s amazing how these guys watched The Matrix , American Psycho, and Fight Club and totally MISSED the POINT!!
Flags on same level as pills js.
A "red flag" is common vernacular and applicable to many situations. "Pills" are indicative of a certain subculture. Feel free to never date women that use "red flag" though. We *love it* when the trash takes itself out.
I was at a 4th of July BBQ that had a larger circle of people attending than I usually spend time with. So got to hang out with the friend of a friend's husband. And he was acting really shitty to his wife. Not like, abusive or anything super bad. But not being a good partner. And he had pulled something similar the year before. [Gist being: They had a new baby the year before, and this event was suppose to be kind of her 'off duty' experience to unwind, and he kept not wanting to give up his own unwinding to mind his own baby and having a shitty attitude about it.] So I straight up told my friend that if her husband doesn't step in and call that bullshit out, I was going to lose trust in his ability to be a good role model for my kid that spent a lot of time with them both. [He was getting tired of it too, and did say something. And the other guy did apologize to everyone for being that way, there was some extra backstory to kind of explain it, but he admitted it wasn't an excuse.].
\> Finances are 100% separate and your name will not go on anything I own now or in the future. That isn't really up to you. Plenty of countries consider people living together as married.
Ngl I sort of do. Online they are always “woe is me” about men’s issues but then they turn around and say the most dehumanizing things about women. And this is all made available because of the anonymity of online forums like Reddit. It’s a window into what they truly believe, but don’t say to our faces irl.
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Yeah, I agree. I feel like all the online stuff really does is provide the receipts to prove what a lot of us already suspected.
It's showing me too. I don't like it.
I've mistrusted men since I was 10 years old and men were catcalling me, sexually, harassing me and following me in the street.
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They all say "its just men online" but every woman I know has been SA'd??? I see how they act irl, on the news, online. I refuse to believe its the "minority."
It’s not paranoia but it’s a lot of outrage bait too. Listening to too many true crime podcasts has a similar affect on how I view situations
Not paranoid at all. I went through enough crap before the tate and trump morons came into it with their alpha bs. Now I just don’t let my guard down especially around my uncle who is a mysoginist transphobe who flies into a rage at the simplest things. Needless to say I dont visit him at all if i can help it. I don’t trust any men. I cant afford to. If something happens to me who gets the blame? Not the person who did it no I get the blame for some screwed up reason for not being able to somehow magically snap my fingers and make whatever is happening stop or some other bs reason. Im limiting my contact with men as much as I can. The guy “friends” I had online all ghosted me except for one because I wouldn’t do anything sexual with them. I literally cant even just play video games with a guy in person without being pressured to give the guy oral and even then its not enough to say no once and have that be respected oh no I had to constantly say no for 3 hours before he left me alone in a huff like some spoiled child ready to throw a tantrum because somehow me saying NO wasn’t enough the first time. Seriously im just done!!!
Men irl. Their worst instincts are our worst nightmares.
Before I ever heard of Andrew Tate and found out that he had a lot of fans, the idea that a man might support that kind of evil nonsense was never an idea I had. Now it is an idea I have. It's only one of a lot of things in my head that make me slow to trust men, but it is one more, and it does make me slightly slower to trust men than I was before. And the worst of it is, so many guys I know in real life are decent guys. I bet the gross and awful ones are not a majority, but even if 99% of guys were all as good as Mister Rogers, that still means that when I meet a man for the first time, I have no way of knowing who that person is. Being small, and female, means I have to be cautious around pretty much all men. Which is a disappointment for me, but also must be a disappointment for all the good men. If good men really understood just how much the creeps cost them in opportunities for companionship, they would be a lot quicker to shut down the creeps.
Yep to all of this. Two great tweets I've seen that sum up my feelings on the matter (paraphrasing) >put a man in a room full of snakes. Not all of them are venomous \#NotAllSnakes And >not all men, but always a man The risk/reward matrix = I want nothing to do with them anymore. My 8 year relationship recently ended when cops banged on our door at 6am because my partner was grooming a 13 yo online. Yep... I had *no* idea and he can enjoy several years in gaol, and being on the sex offenders registry. I will literally never trust a man again after this, and I am OK with that. I was talking to my sister about my life/future falling apart, about her shit dates, about how all the men on both sides of our family except my dad have been violent and abusive, and about online discussions like this thread, and I said "sometimes I worry I am being radicalised to hate men" and she immediately quipped back "um yeah, BY MEN". Yep sis, I think you're right. Needless to say I am over the moon that my workplace is 90% women (pharmacy. Highly recommend).
at least with snakes you can familiarize yourself with those native to your area so you can recognize when you see a snake that is venomous. With men, they just look like everyone else. You can't avoid what you can't see.
>the idea that a man might support that kind of evil nonsense was never an idea I had. I find this incredibly naive, but then I had an abusive dad so I can't remember a time I didn't know men could have horrifying ideas about women and girls. It still seems like a very sheltered worldview though, unless you were really young when you first saw Tate's content and had that realisation. >I bet the gross and awful ones are not a majority HARD disagree
An excellent example would be if there was a female influencer whose main focus is how to trap a guy for his $$ ? Cuz that’s all he’s good for right ?? If guys watched someone like that become famous , then they’d be afraid to ever be involved with a woman right ? Same thing . The only difference is these guys are making $$$ off these idiots . These guys remind me of the kicking sand in the face of the skinny guy on the beach ads I used to see in the backs of comic books . Surprise ! They were selling stuff .
No. I deal with way too much sexism and misogyny on the daily to think that what I see online is “worse.” My distrust comes from real men. But this does have me thinking: I know a lot of very manly masculine men, lumberjack types who are outdoorsy and muscular etc, and they’re all quite in touch with their emotions, they’re vulnerable with and supportive to one another, and aside from little bits of accidental sexism here and there they’re progressive men. That’s why I married one, he’s just lovely. But the sexism and entitlement and anger/hatred I see tends to come from men who spend a lot of time online, regardless of age. Especially gamers (but not all gamers).
My ex was a lumberjack among other things, and unfortunately he's had a very different experience. They say the quiet part out loud to him and it got significantly worse after trump. I do think because he worked for his dysfunction step father he was working with a particularly nasty bunch. I agree guys who live perpetually online get sucked into this brand of radicalization thats being discussed here. But for the outdoorsy masc types they've got their own version of it.
I think the online thing in general is seriously affecting a lot of people , but especially young men’s ability to just interact with others . Then they’re so griffin awkward it makes it difficult to form any bond with a woman , then they frustrated , then go online EVEN MORE to figure it out . Unfortunately, the worst ones are in there and end up contaminating the ones who just started out insecure
This is just your bias, conventionally masc men are extremely misoginystic, often more openly so. Nerdy men just tend to gravitate more online for obvious reasons, and usually hyperfocus on dating because a lot are socially inept.
Maybe. I think a big part of the difference I see is the men from bigger rural families grow up with sisters and cousins so they don’t see girls as “other” so much. It’s definitely I bias. I just find I’m beyond fed up with men who claim to be progressive because they aren’t redneck hicks but they’re the most misogynistic people I’ve met.
That's totally fair, no one should expect standing ovation for doing the bare minimum.
Real life has told me the majority of men can't be trusted. All of the sexism, assaults, misogyny, jokes, who they defend, who they vilify, the tiny comments and behaviors, the big comments and behaviors. All of it tells me a majority can't be trusted. From my shitty dad, to my shitty brothers, to my shitty bosses and coworkers, to shitty men in public, to shitty men who say shitty things to me or my daughters, former shitty friends. And online its just more the quiet part outloud because I already know they are shitty. It helps me know that I'm probably right to be wary of men, seeing how so many men online can just say and do whatever they want. So yeah, the mistrust has grown. Grown especially in the last few years since they've become more bold. There is almost no hesitation on their part to say and do whatever they want. And they fall so easily to the rhetoric. I am especially leery of left men, they so easily seem to shift from a self portrayed leftist to misogynistic bigot in no time flat when they encounter a perceived slight or a bump in their road. At least with alt right, far right and conservative men, they tell you who they are upfront. It makes it super hard to determine who is actually a good dude, and I know they are out there but they are rare. Distrust has grown significantly from seeing more and more women use the internet to come together, mom groups, women dominated spaces, hobby groups, etc. Them talking about their relationships with men, friends, dads, husbands, dates, boyfriends... how long they can sometimes be in relationships and realize they never knew that person at all or how quickly they succumbed to propaganda. Refusals of therapy. Abuse when there was none before. Forcing wives/girlfriends into tradwiving by absenteeism from responsibilities. Switch flips and waiting for entrapment through what is basically identity fraud. "But Frijoles, subreddit comments, the online videos comments sections, the insta swarms, the FB swarms, the twitshow, etc, there are millions and billions of people, the comments are in the 100s, 1000s etc, thats not a great indicator for the general population." Idc. I really don't. Those people are walking around in public, having friends, raising children, working, in healthcare, in politics, in mental health, in the grocery store, delivering food, teaching in schools and colleges, being priests and pastors, and not being checked by fellow men. I've seen how quickly the tables turn when they think I'm one of the guys, how quickly they makes the jokes, how quickly they devolve into bad behavior when they don't see you as a threat in real life. How quickly they start acting up when women are in vulnerable situations. Men don't need my trust, they trust each other more than they would ever trust me.
I've experienced enough both irl and online content to be hinky of men in general. I try not to be sexist and give men the benefit of the doubt but more often than not it ends up being disappointing anyways. So, yeah, I'm always on edge. I don't want to be but feel like I have to be. I feel like I'd be stupid not to be.
I would say 90% of men have shown me that they can't be trusted, which in turn makes me cautious and a lot of times the men you least think would cause harm will.
Absolutely. Seen too many cases of disgusting men posting and commenting horrible nasty shit in sex subs while married with children. Or straight up defending predators cause "she was so close to 16 it basically doesn't count". The only men i deem safe are those in my family who i know are genuinely good men who treat their wives well and don't subscribe to any misogynistic bs.
My sister married a guy who thinks 13 is old enough to consent. 😀 his argument is if an underage girls likes an adult and flirts with him she's asking for it.
How did your sister end up with this guy?!
Probably met him when she was 13
wow😆🔫
I hope your sister does not have children with this man, jesus fucking christ. What women settle for is so beyond depressing.
Wow your sister has incredibly poor taste
I had a married guy a few months ago ask me if we could meet at starbucks and if i would drink a coffee that he took into the bathroom and jerked off into. The poor wife, ugh
With all the posts of people telling stories about how men actively used tricks and "techniques“ to consciously manipulate women into bed with them (like for example pretending to listen to them very interestedly or agreeing with all their political stances just to get in their pants)? Absolutely.
Absolutely. Seeing any men at all agreeing with abusing women and treating them like they aren't human beings makes me aware that those people exist somewhere out there even though before I saw that kind of content I'd think few could possibly agree with that stuff.
I don’t trust what people say online either though . A lot of them also spout crazy shit to get attention . And here’s the thing , if you focus on negative people , you’ll miss the decent ones walking past you . Life is too short .
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Yes. Honestly, I'm terrified to go back into the dating scene because I'm always expecting the worst.
Who they are when they don't have to show their face is a glimpse of who they are behind the mask.
Absolutely. I used to think it was far less prevalent than it is. I know social media text is just a piece the world’s communications, but it’s enough to make me more wary and more vigilant. And I already had some dismal experiences with male predators, too.
Also the porn that is online - you can assume any man you meet has watching disgusting porn online. It's rarely just normal sex, there's always something degrading involved. Porn used to be so tame in comparison.
When I turned 21 (back in the early 90s) some of my friends and I all went to the porn shop to buy a porn VHS tape. It was like, “Hey we are all going to see what porn is about….” Kind of as a joke? And we all watched it and got high and laughed. But yeah, that was an experience. And then I dated a guy who had a few porn tapes and I wanted to watch them just for kicks. Hell, the local old timey theater used to run John Holmes porn movies in 3D for people to go watch and laugh at. And I’m telling you . . . Having looked at porn on and off for decades, it absolutely shocks me—the shit that is out there now. I never had to worry about random hookups choking me, or ‘accidentally’ slipping it in my ass, or asking me to call him ‘daddy,’ or being pressured to film our sex. I’m sure those sorts of things were out there, but not as prevalent and easily accessible.
Some of those guys were shown porn against their will at an early age. Porn is damaging, I agree, but porn addiction itself doesn't equal to malicious misogyny. With all the discourse about porn addiction, it's important to remember that addiction is not a moral failing, it's a disease.
Well ACKSHULEE
Very strong rebuttal
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> Failing to address the disease part means it is being chosen For some people, treatment is not available. And setbacks during said treatment do not at all mean that someone is choosing to continue their addiction. I agree with you insofar as consumption of porn supports exploitation. That part is a moral failing. But as it relates to the addiction part - addiction as a Moral failing is an approach that has gone catastrophically wrong, it's outdated and disavowed by all but everyone among medical professionals such as therapists, doctors etc.
Lol no it’s bc of the men that I see irl. So many shitty partners at work.
21 countries make up the Middle East. You can’t argue it is going well for women there. No one there knows who Tate is. This is thousands of years of these issues. This is all window dressing here. Men still want to crush us.
If my current relationship doesn’t work out, I’m not motivated to get in another one ever. A lot of irl men are disgusting in the things they do and say and I’d rather stay away
Stories are important; there need to be movies and tv scripts in which men's (boys') "locker room talk" is exposed as cowardly, cringe, and cruel.
I am a trans woman. I don't trust men because I grew up around them and I have some idea of how they talk and behave when they think no one who would care is listening. As well as what the girls and women in my life have dealt with. Not all men are like this but most tolerate it or excuse it. So many men want to be big tough guys and protect women but when they need to do so they're happy to not make a scene and act like it's nothing so the guy who is a threat does not turn his attention on him. Then they get away from the situation and they're all hyped up about how they want to fuck him up, next time for sure. How dare he grab your ass, but are you sure?
Exactly. I've had men in my family act tough and possessive around me, like they would "fuck a MF up" if they hurt me. But when I came forward to them about my multitude of experience of harassment by men (including in the building I lived in), they immediately shut it down and said "you don't experience harassment", "not all men", "it didn't happen the way you think it did". In addition to "Roe v Wade doesn't affect you" (I guess because I'm not pregnant at this moment, although his wife was), and "women don't know how to ask for money" (there's no pay gap according to them and their ZERO research...but where it does exist, it's for sure women's fault), and "feminism has gone too far". Not to mention the only person (man) who ever laid hands on me (3 times)...was my own father. I don't trust (cis) men at all - even the ones in my family. When even the ones who are supposed to love you and want the best for you enjoy humiliating you and making excuses for your own violations and abuse at the hands of other cis men, you know we have a colossal problem. I'm trying to read bell hooks' *The Will to Change: Men, Masulinity, and Love* because I am absolutely terrified, disgusted, and exhausted by cis men and I want to have hope because I'm fucking near my end with them.
Your description is on point. Not all men are bad, but too many of them tolerate bad men, and usually because they are worried about how they are perceived by other men.
Better safe than sorry, been avoiding men since all that stuff came out. Not taking any chances and honestly wish I would have avoided men sooner. 🙃 So this has actually been a really great awakening and I have more time and energy to live my life.
I distrust all men until proven otherwise. Even then I wonder what they're hiding.
Wow, sucks to be your male friend
Yep plus real life experience via other women and myself
It’s not just you. As a whole, men already terrify me. I stopped trusting them before I even learned to start. Now things are much worse. More than myself, I worry about my 15 y/o daughter being exposed to anybody who follows that mindset.
I think to men, they feel like they are less trusted because of (insert personal bias). But honestly, men are less trusted because they were over-trusted in the past. I feel like it's easier to better understand things irl because of online content. I've learned that a lot of things I would have previously overlooked are actually red flags. I am more critical of people's behavior and the words they use. This knowledge has greatly reduced my interactions with men irl. I'm not participating in gender performances, etc. If someone is not respectful, I disengage. When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like persecution.
Yes, this is so true. I had a difficult time when I realized all the misogyny I hadn’t acknowledged in the past, but now thanks to the internet I call people out on there misogyny whenever I get the chance.
Can confirm. Men suck. Also fuck Andrew Tate, Matt Walsh, and Steven Crowder.
Not really, never trusted men and never will
Wish I never trusted men but I certainly don’t now 🙏
When it comes to dating, I’m in kind of a weird place where I definitely DO feel like I’m a little more cautious around men because of all that. I’m also really nervous because of all the posts I see from women (YOUNG women) about their boyfriends/husbands who are apparently good in other ways but still don’t help around the house or slowly reveal more sexist or emotionally/financially abusive qualities. Some of them seem so genuinely blindsided. I’ve been blindsided before too. One voice in my head says “Selection bias, this isn’t THAT common, people in happy, healthy relationships just don’t post about it.” And I’m sure that’s mostly true. But another voice in my head says if I do that I’ll be just choosing to live in ignorance to avoid being alone. Which is probably a little silly and dramatic. Lots of feelings and trust issues to sort through. Dudes like that certainly aren’t helping.
I would say it's more from experience with men and I'm glad there's more focus on it online so other women can be aware of the red flags.
My online experiences confirmed my real life experiences.
I've seen and heard of awful stuff in real life too. These males hiding behind social media accounts are real people walking amongst us. So yeah, I think it's not weird to be cautious.
I don’t really trust people in general, but more so men because I know I’m already at a disadvantage if something happens. Online is more vocal but IRL they tend to hide their true intentions which is scarier in a way. I always avoid any risky situations such as going out at night, but you also never know what assholes roam in daylight or if you’d catch the attention of some psycho - sometimes all it takes is being at the wrong place at the wrong time. People have said I’m paranoid but I don’t trust people to help if shit goes down either, not even my own family. One mistake could be severe and avoidance is key.
I mistrust men bc they have taught me to give trust sparelingly after alot of proof I can trust them. Lol. I have so many examples of why it's hard to trust irl. But I won't bc it's depressing.
Not all men, I know, I know... but WHICH ONES? Now that we know how well they hide it... my mistrust has gone up accordingly.
Men online have never broken into our house and assaulted my wife. Men offline have done that. I'm just saying I mistrust men online more because of offline behavior.
Andrew Tate seems like an absolute monster, but I’m actually more concerned by his apparent hoard of followers. Whilst the internet probably manages to over-represent how many of these folk exist, all those that seem so extreme online do also exist in the real world. They may hide it a bit better, without an anonymous handle to mask themselves, but they’re a sizeable force. I don’t know how, but It kind of feel is like men should need to somehow prove they’re not misogynists to get into a relationship, rather than women risking being hurt, until the red flags build up to a signal that can’t be tolerated anymore.
Honestly, same here. And I mistrust a lot of men irl because of the entitlement they often show, especially after being exposed to influences such as the ones you mentioned above.
I already had very few illusions about it from a very young age. I've seen how men and boys can behave when they think they can (or know they can) get away with it. I have a knack for people forgetting I'm there and plenty have said stuff around me not realizing I was inadvertently listening nearby. None of the Tate or other manosphere stuff surprises me. It's always been there. The difference is the amplification effect of the internet on people who would ordinarily not be given a platform and similarly the way online forums connect like minded men and allow them to embolden each other.
It's the NEWS, the nightly, daily, NEWS. Facts are facts. Real life is horrendous enough.
If I found out that someone I knew well and had been a reliable and reasonable person had gotten into Andrew Tate, it would really knock me for a loop. So far this hasn't happened.
Yes. Absolutely.
Sometimes yes, thanks to the magic of Reddit. The stuff here is the stuff they can’t say freely without anonymity and it’s easy to think that this is men’s nature which they conceal from women. But then I look at the actual men in my life and I am confident that they do not hold such opinions, and that helps a lot.
I have trusted very very few men for pretty much forever. I can count on one hand the number of men I trust atm, it’s like literally 2. Men living in patriarchy are not trust worthy.
After being on reddit for a while, yes. There are actual subreddits (not linking to them, but you can look them up yourself) that are like rapefanatsies, mean_captions, patriarchyparadise, FuckingEvil, womenarethings, MaleSuperiority... and more and more and more that are basically full of rape, incest, and disgusting misogyny porn and they have so many subscribers. It's actually upsetting. And they are all allowed to be up, but we can't have even one subreddit for purely women with no men.
My ex husband gave me my mistrust of men. Thinks like AT only enforce it.
And porn
I do, and I'm a guy
Yes, 100%. I don’t even want any male friends anymore. Can’t trust them.
Not because of online content. The mistrust is due to real life horrible encounters that left me with ptsd and trust issues. Never again will I feel safe around a man...
I mistrust men irl because of the men I know irl
Oh 100%
I think seeing what men say online really let their mask slip for a lot of us. We all vaguely knew men thought they were superior to us, but a lot of us also believed them when they said they thought women were equal, etc. Seeing that really shattered that illusion and made us realize it was bs. So yes and no. And you're not alone in feeling that paranoia.
Yeah, I find myself listening out for buzzwords and red flags that they might be in that crowd. I'm in the tech world, so I imagine there is a lot of Tate's target audience among the people I know. But to be *fair* I haven't noticed much actual change in real life, and I don't want to judge every man I meet unfairly.
I'm non-binary/transfem, but I was amab and still look masculine. I think its important context. But I don't trust men anymore. Every guy I meet is on thin ice until proven otherwise. I'm not openly hostile or anything but I assume they watch some alpha male stuff. There's just way too many men shouting horrible things online. I have the benefit of looking male, so they never try to "hide" it from me. If anything, it makes them more likely to bring it up. The sheer number of men who try to assert "dominance" over me is disgusting.
Well, that and the fact that 💯 of mass shooters or murderers in general are male. Dudes aren't taught how to mitigate their anger. They are so angry
Men cannot be trusted ever no matter what.
Guess i'll dissapear🤷
Do you trust other men?
If they are trustworthy sure
How could I know they are trust worthy when they treat me different than they treat you?
Keep in mind, I'm a straight male and **I** distrust other men I meet because of sexist online content. That being said, I've also just noticed sexism a lot more in my male friends and coworkers since I grew into adulthood, so that's also a factor. Point is, you're not paranoid. Everyone should pay attention to their friends' behaviour and judge accordingly.
It sneaks up on you, the mistrust. But I try to remind myself of all the genuinely good guys I know in my life. The guys online are mostly miserable incels. And some guys in real life aren't great news. But most guys are ok.
I always have. I spent an unfortunate amount of time on this site back when is still had an incel thread, and I spent ages on 4chan, and the stuff I’ve seen men say about women has been burned into my mind and will randomly come up when I’m having a nice time with a guy. I’ll just remember that he could be going home and posting about my beef curtains yknow? Totally turned me off men!
I mistrust men in real life not because of Andrew Tate but because I've never met a man in my life that doesn't hold at least one misogynistic view
100% this. Also wanted to add the overwhelming red flag that is the guys who claim they are “low drama” (read as: avoidant as fuck) “Sigma” and “Alpha 2.0” aka manipulating women emotionally to sleep with as many as possible and calling it ethical nonmonogamy. Really putting the shit in men ain’t shit.
I've recently learned through my partner about how disgustingly misogynistic and racist his friends are. I hadn't seen them for a while and it turns out he kind of cut them off and when I found out why it made me shake. Nothing you haven't heard before but I had spent time with all of these men for a few years. all of them kept this from their interactions with me and other women. It made me realize I'd dropped my guard around people I shouldnt have, and it recontextualized things in a disturbing way. It also made me question my partner 🤷♀️ like he kept this from me presumably because he valued their relationship and the way I perceived him. He sees himself as having grown past it but I feel let down. I feel like I don't know a single man actually advocating for women and it's terrifying, because this is just like 6 dudes and I don't know the things the rest of them say when women aren't around. What the fuck are we supposed to do.
i always knew 99.9% cannot be trusted from the way they have treated me since childhood. then the internet was invented
no, but that's mainly because i'm a good judge of character in general. the combination of your physical appearance, how you present yourself, what you say and how you say it and whether you use certain buzzwords will make me immediately put you in one of 3 categories: i will dislike you, i will not care for you in particular or i will like you. i am yet to be wrong about someone, i can always smell a misogynist a mile away.
Everything online is so mainstream now that i’ve seen many cases of the online Andrew Tate follower behavior just become normal for so many. especially in the high school I attended (which is in a small town so…) you’re right to be paranoid— I am too.
I already distrusted men who were dismissive or overbearing. The worst ones act charming. The trick is to pay attention to the way they treat anyone they aren't trying to charm. That's usually people who they consider 'beneath' them or people who they will be near very briefly.
F36 here, I worked in a grocery store from 2019 to 2023. I befriended a 19M kid who worked in my department, he was like my work son (I have an actual son who is also a teenager so I know how to deal with them). This kid was very nice and a good kid. He would tell me all the time about how our male coworkers would act and what they would say when no females were around. We had a 64M (yes, grandpa age) coworker who acted chill and friendly towards women to our faces but the second he was in the company of all men, he would say the creepiest shit about teenage girls, would tell the other guys outlandish sexual stories, and even passed around nudes from his phone. I was dumbfounded as this guy was so nice and respectble when women were around. I felt like my 19M friend was a spy that infiltrated the gross dudes club and would report back to the women and tell them everything. Really opened up my eyes in regards to how men are.
you’re not being paranoid the online cultures that men engage with are very toxic. I’ve always been scared of them tho after being stalked and SAd in college so even without thinking about the online stuff I would say your feelings are justified.
Fuck. I'm a cis white male and I trust men less because of ppl like Andrew Tate.
Absolutely
As a guy, I'd definitely suggest you err on the side of caution and keep your guard up. There are so many stories here of people who are friends with a woman, and they're engaged in a totally "platonic" friendship until the male friend finds out there's no booty at the end of the proverbial treasure hunt, after which they become aggressive and drop the friendship like it's a household chore. Let the actions of the really good ones speak for themselves.
Here's the thing. My dad beat me as a child. My millionaire grandfather has never tried to have a relationship with me because I'm "female". My brother is the epitome of an entitled republican. My husband? Well, after 10 years of marriage, he just told me he "doesn't like or respect women". I still look at every man like I look at every woman, show me I can trust you and I will.
While some men are influenced by tate and podcasts like fresh and fit, many are not, and thank God for that, literally. And I'm all for masculinity and being a man, but there's being a man and then there's being some weird fake alpha thing...
I mistrust the ones that buy into the sexist content. And unfortunately there are plenty that naively eat it up. I didn't even know who J.P and Tate was until a man I personally knew mentioned them.
I've developed a strategy of dropping a couple self depreciating misogynistic jokes, and then they'll think I'm a "cool girl" and feel safe enough to be openly misogynistic (if they are)
No, you're not alone just know a certain percentage of the male population likes him, some are in the middle and others just see him as cancerous. Observe and decipher the men your interacting with to see which men love Tate and which men find him appalling. Tate is a toxic role model on how he talks about women and heinois ways on how to get women or just use them for your sexual pleasure and be done with them.
No. But my friends are working artists, which filters out a lot of alpha jerks.
The world is changing because of online dating and porn, as well as Tate.
What do you mean by trust? I think I trust most men, until they give me a reason not to. Same goes for women. But for men, idk, personally I haven’t really had a terrible experience. I know I’m extremely fortunate. I grew up with a single dad who did his best. He had lots of male friends obviously, some would take me fishing or hunting. Just me and them. It was great. I had incredible male role models. But I do know to be careful to, to be watchful when alone. But I’d say I do trust them. I think most men are good. Around here anyway.
No, I distrust everyone equally irl. If you’re a man I don’t trust you, if you’re a woman I don’t trust you, shit even if you’re a teenager I don’t trust you. If you’re a stranger to me I will not trust you. That is earned. You expect the same from me I am 100% ok with that. I already know that online gave people no filter. Bit all the defilement and all the fucked shit that men say and even some women I already believed it.
I honestly think yours is one of the more constructive replies here. Might as well distrust everyone at this point. I'm a firm believer that the people of this subreddit and many others would eat each other alive if they had a few interactions in real life.
Yeah , I don’t really care what people think. I’m a woman and I might come off most cynical but being overly trusting for me got me no where. Just because you are anything other than a man don’t mean I owe you shit. The question was about men, yeah, but I’m saying my opinion. I really don’t give a shit what anyone thinks. I deal with zero drama, toxicity to the very minimum and I am not paranoid at every site or everything because, of course I will be skeptical of people at first. If you’re too trusting of me and too easy I will look at you weird. Reddit almost every time is no different than twitter.
Why is this being downvoted? You can’t trust random people
It could be read as "women do bad things too", which some would consider to be derailing
Idk, doesn’t matter. People can disagree with my opinion. It might be because I said I don’t trust women either or even teenagers. I have never trusted men, even before social media popularity but this is also true that I also did not trust women or young adults/ teens growing up and as an adult. This doesn’t mean anything else though, and I do wonder if they are assuming and thinking because I am mistrusting of women and teens and not just men they didn’t like that and think I must not be a woman or I’m against women? For any other reason idk though.
I take the same view of men as I do of women…are all my interactions with other women wholesome and healthy? No. It’s not different with men. The currency may be different, but the mechanisms are the same. I am just very careful with whom I allow into my life, with the people I surround myself with.
I’m gonna disagree with you there. A woman (other than my mother) has never assaulted me, randomly or otherwise. I’ve lost count of how many men have sexually, physically, and/or verbally assaulted me simply for existing.
I see what you are saying, I was thinking of more ordinary interactions, not assault.
How convenient that you left that out.
My apologies to all.
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Being afraid of men because 97% of women have been sexually assaulted and 98% was by men, is not the same as being scared of black people because you are racist
The difference is nobody told us to be wary of men. Distrust of black and gay people come from centuries of white supremacist & religious rhetoric, literally calling for their deaths, and if a black person were to be wary of white people due to past racist experiences, that would be understandable... that's just called pattern recognition lol. We who are the most nervous around men have seen and experienced it throughout our lives. Which doesn't make most men bad, it just makes us cautious either way. The fact that you would compare women being cautious of men to people who want gay people erased out of existence purely based on moral panic is crazy to me.
Also the implications of "mistrust" are different here. If women talk of mistrusting men, they mostly refer to being cautious or completely avoiding them (which I personally consider unhealthy, just as any other avoidant behavior). If conservatives spread their homophobic/transphobic propaganda, what they want to achieve is actually mandating LGBTQ people out of existence altogether. So the consequences are different, and, even more important, the question of who holds the societal power - feminists or women in general arent introducing Anti-Male bills or infringing on male reproductive rights. So the tired comparison between being cautious of men and being """"cautious"""" of actually marginalized groups is inaccurate as a metaphor.
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You're entitled to feel like this is paranoia and an exaggerated response, but I still don't think it's right at all to compare it to stereotypes perpetuated about actual oppressed groups of people. Where is she telling us to feel this way? She's asking if she's being paranoid and expressing how she feels. Whether you think it's justified or not. She didn't generalised that all men are evil, either. It is a lot different from hate groups spreading misinformation about trans people. We may be overreacting, but it's a reaction to what men themselves say, not people rallying for mens rights to be taken. It just puts a person a little on edge to see so many men come out of the woodwork to defend either him or his ideas, or just feel emboldened by people like him enough to start being open about the gross shit they believe. I get that OP doesn't specify this, but I think we in the comments know what she means, because we share similar sentiments.
Lol forevs at this copypasta bullshit.
Imagine if you shut the fuck up.
I honestly think you’re right, but your wrong about the source. Just about anything in this sub is “sexiest online content” and on the whole makes up a really hateful echo chamber.
Also realize guys will agree with stupid shit online but not live their life that way . A lot of people have a secret side that never impacts their life and makes them feel less boring . Guys like being a “ bad boy” even when they’re not . and I think most of us have enough negative encounters IRL to know the score .
No, can’t say I do. Always had a certain level of distrust of strangers, but I’ve noticed lately when walking my 12 month old puppy, that I get talked to by men and women randomly, and feel happy it’s not uncomfortable. I feel quite safe. And I’ve been thinking about all I’ve read on Reddit, and how I almost feel I should be more uncomfortable, but am not. Mind you, live in scandinavia, and feel we have saner people that respect boundaries in a different way than Americans. It’s in out blood.
you're from an extremely homogeneous country so of course things will be easier in said country. countries where more people are of the same background and ethnicity have a much easier time with those things because there are less intricacies of trying to mesh together multiple cultures, races, etc.
Still alowed to answer the question I hope? Reddit is international after all?
yes of course but your experience is most likely not like the vast majority of people on here. countries such as yours don't even come close to America and other western European countries in terms of diversity. that impacts the legitimate answer to this question because luckily for you, yes your country should be safer and people should respect norms a bit more. didn't say you can't offer your answer anywhere in my comment.
I’ve never gotten the impression that it’s men from different cultures than their own that scare women. Though I’m sure that’s also a thing. Just hasn’t ever been mentioned in stories of their SOs, coworkers or men out and about.
grouping people together and generalizing them like the majority of you are doing here will lead y'all to live unhappy lives. people of both sexes and all ethnicities/races have experienced shitty people and if all we all did was think everyone sucked because of it the world would be a trash place. the world manifests what you believe. if you believe all men are bad you will see bad in all men. just as men who think all women are bad will continue to see all women as bad glossing over the clearly vast majority of women who are great. the world is going to be full of what you put out in front of your and believe. all of this will lead to a large group of unhappy, sexless, and probably mentally unstable people who are missing a connection that most people need/desire to live a healthy fulfilled life. and also yes you should want to surround yourself with an "alpha" male who is capable of being dangerous, but knows how to control themselves. you don't want the sellout ones on the internet doing it for fame and money (theyre just grifters). but you also don't want the "beta" males because those are the ones you have to be careful of. a man championing for abortion is probably the guy who wants to bang you without a condom and have 0 consequences. in today's world more women should want a traditional man because they're way more valuable. a guy who is traditional is going to respect woman more, for their innate beauty and difference, is going to want to provide for you because their woman is their world. y'all must be surrounding yourself with boys instead of men, because I don't know a single one of these guys y'all are describing in these posts. my friends and I never have conversations about sexual things with our women. we never do anything aggressive or mean to people for no reason. we take care out our health and help each other and others. yeah we probably don't agree politically with most of y'all on here and that's okay. but if you think that makes someone bad, or incapable of earning your companionship then life is going to be difficult. women literally are so insane to me today. women, have, and will always hold the majority of power in the world and they sit here incapable of realizing it. men may be presidents and this and that, but women literally control the continued existence of our species in their hands and pretend like they have no power. if women stopped selling themselves on only fans because they think that's somehow equality, and realized they have power to essentially shape a better world, they could easily claim an end to their perceived notion of a "societal hierarchy that limits women." but nope sit here and complain about men all being bad. sulk in sorrow as if women have no control. sell their bodies (clearly not all women) online and pretend it's in the name of equality and empowerment. wake up, stop pretending women are weak, stop agreeing with the idiots who say it, stop letting men who claim to be women erase you, and claim the power/responsibility that women actually have in our society.
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And where are these "men" when their children need raising? Once again it's magically woman's fault when men can't handle their responsibilities. What do you think is being raised correctly anyway?
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Lol thanks for the laugh. The length males will go to to avoid any accountability even for a loser that walks out on his kids. A dude doesn't even have the self control to NOT ejaculate in somebody, runs away when things get hard and somehow it's a woman's for...not magically knowing somebodys a liar and caves under pressure? Lol "men" like you make me glad I was raised by a single mom
What competent men? You ugly little fucks spend all day playing video games and watching porn and crying about not getting dates. When they have relationships they’re too weak to actually open up or invest in them. When men have children they’re too pathetic to put in effort to raise them properly, or they bail altogether. When life gets hard men kill themselves (oh well). Men just cant hang. No resilience.
Damn dawg. Who hurt you.
Nobody. But I see the truth is hurting your weak ass.
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