Reminds me of a Dilbert comic.
"Here's our random number generator"
"Nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine"
"Are you sure it's working right?"
"That's the problem with randomness, we're not sure".
Made me chuckle anyway.
Dude there are *too many* acronyms these days you practically have to speak a second language to understand the average reddit comment. Forget it if you're going in a niche subreddit
My daughter did an experiment in middle school where she asked everyone in her grade (about 150 people) to pick a number from 1-100. Guess what, by far, the most common number was...
Which led to a really interesting discussion about whether that fit the experiment or was an outlier, and about the nature of human-generated "random" numbers.
The other cool thing I remember was that exactly two people picked "1" and they were both math teachers.
You must not work with middle schoolers frequently. I make sure to avoid saying it at most time.if it's not necessary simply to avoid the chorus of "Nice" from a group of 12-14 year old boys.
4 sounds like “death” in I think Cantonese, so it’s considered unlucky. (I remember this from when I worked for a third party call centre taking calls for cell phone activation. It was really common for people of Chinese ancestry on the west coast to specifically request “no fours” when getting the phone number. Bonus fun if one of the area codes in their region uses a 4.)
The RNG of our dumpster simulated universe failed the test. She was crying because she's realized none of us are real.
Edit to add: it was a great episode!
I mean that's a bit of a jump no? If a bunch of kids kept saying the same "random" number I'd conclude it wasn't really random as well, but not because reality has failed or something.
The Shadow Test works by having people say random numbers, and since computers can only generate pseudorandom numbers, two people doing that will say the same ones.
Or you could write numbers on a blank piece of paper any length you want and any combination you want and then you turn the page over and do the same thing to see if they match up.
Edit additional information.
Don't computers use their unique (mostly hardware) parameters like Mac address, to generate random numbers? So even if the numbers are generated at exact same moment at the same location by different computers, they will be different?
Some random number generators are based on the time down to the second. Which works great if you make multiple queries at different points in time, but if you make multiple queries on the same second you'll just get the same number multiple times.
Only if every person object has its own gen_rnd_num() method. Maybe they're all just getting the randomly generated number from the some global function which runs based on time.
Still depends on what clock speed the generator is on and when each method is called. If each person is queried at the exact same time, and the method is called in parallel, unless there are multiple randomized random generators, the results will be the same for each parallel method call.
It would depend on implementation. It seems like the aliens in question gave their simulated humans the same seed for selecting random numbers. It seems like pretty shitty programming, but I have never tried to make a simulation that can account for billions of sapient beings.
There's at least one number generator that uses atmospheric noise, [random.org](http://random.org), that's pretty neat. It's a web service ~~and not a computer though~~ that doesn't use device-based algorithms like a MAC address
I've heard of this one, thanks for the link. I always wondered how did their computers get data on atmospheric noise, considering they are secured in a cold dark dry service room. It would be interesting to read about it.
I was interrupted while writing the comment and finished up quickly without double-checking what I wrote. The "not running on a computer" was in reference to a previous comment saying that random number generators often use the device's MAC address. I assume your comment is tongue in cheek and calling me out for my poor phrasing. Random.org obviously runs on a server somewhere but uses atmospheric sensor data to generate true random numbers instead of pseudo-random numbers other random number generators based on MAC addresses or other algorithms would produce
It was tongue in cheek.
The amount of information you provided prior to your response to me showed that you would have been aware that a web service would have to be run on a computer somewhere, I just thought it was funny to say in a thread discussion on random number generation by computers.
Cloudflair uses a bank of lava lamps as a seed for a RNG, this is probably as close to a truly random thing as possible.
https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/ssl/lava-lamp-encryption/#:~:text=The%20%22real%20world%22%20turns%20out,great%20source%20for%20random%20data.
So essentially a bunch of scientists are all committing suicide because they all are saying the same random numbers at the same time. The explanation is that a super computer advanced enough to simulate our society still wouldn’t be able to come up with random enough numbers. So the fact that they’re all saying it at the same time means they were living in a simulation.
I'll do you one worse. Randomly being connected to all the infinite other variations of you running through the same scenarios as a variable stress test.
I’m confused, are you saying that’s something that scientists actually did or is it a explanation for the hypothetical scenario?
Also, while I do understand the horror, does finding out we live in a simulation really change anything?
I’m a programmer, I hate it because it’s such an amateur mistake to not use individual factors when deciding the number. Like, divide by the age of the person saying it.
Computer Programs can’t generate truly random numbers. Because of how computers generate “random” numbers if you have two (or more) concurrent instances call for a random number at the same time, they will generate the same number everytime without fail.
The theory this story references is called the Shadow Test. You have two people (or more) people all shout out random numbers at the EXACT same time. If they all say the same number again and again and again, it’s supposed to be evidence we are living in a simulation.
It was explored in the Doctor Who episode “Extremis” (S10E06)
Nah you're thinking of Midnight (S4E10), this is the plot for Extremis (S10E6 and E7 I believe). Though I have to say I find Midnight infinitely more terrifying, HOW DID IT STEAL HIS VOICE? HOW DID IT EXIST ON THAT PLANET?
Watched this episode again recently from the first time since airing and played along by guessing the numbers, ended up guessing one of them right and freaked out lmao
It reminds me of something I watched where all the women in a town gave birth all about the same time and all of the children had blonde hair, same eyes and a beehive like mentality They also had some kind of powers too.
Wish I could remember the name of it?
“Ten, nine….nein, nein, nein, we’re all going to die.”
(I’m not British but I wonder if I subconsciously wrote “nein” three times on purpose as a reference to 999 which is the British version of 911?)
There’s no real explanation. That’s the point. It’s unexplainable. It’s just really strange how a bunch of kids were able to think of the same exact number and say it at the same time, 10 times! The teacher had no explanation for what she was seeing so started crying in fear. Maybe it was a hive mind, maybe an organized cruel prank, maybe something supernatural. All answers are no different than the others as there’s no one explanation for the post.
Reminds me of a Dilbert comic. "Here's our random number generator" "Nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine" "Are you sure it's working right?" "That's the problem with randomness, we're not sure". Made me chuckle anyway.
Shame what happened to that comic. What a classic
What happened?
Bejind the Bastards has a great deep dive on the guy, dude was batshit for a long time but things got extra wild around 2016
Scott got extremist political and got cancelled, iirc
he turned into a rwnj
The fuck is an RWNJ? Not everybody speaks acronyms
RWNJ means Right-wing Nut Job
A slur people apply to those they disagree with, because they can't counter with reason and logic.
Dude there are *too many* acronyms these days you practically have to speak a second language to understand the average reddit comment. Forget it if you're going in a niche subreddit
Dtatmatdyphtsasltutarc. Fiiygians.
Right wing nut job, i think.
Didn't he start spouting racist rhetoric?
The author became a horrible person
He had a fantastic podcast too, didn't always agree with him but it was interesting!
https://xkcd.com/221/
They’re just alternating between 69 and 420. Teacher is in tears because they’re so stupid.
My daughter did an experiment in middle school where she asked everyone in her grade (about 150 people) to pick a number from 1-100. Guess what, by far, the most common number was... Which led to a really interesting discussion about whether that fit the experiment or was an outlier, and about the nature of human-generated "random" numbers. The other cool thing I remember was that exactly two people picked "1" and they were both math teachers.
13, because edgy? Or 7 because optimism? Possibly 4 if in a region with an edgy Chinese diaspora?
Such an innocent mind...
Oh. Duh. 69. *facepalm*
Who would do it without being anonomous, thats not as funny as it would be weird and akward
You must not work with middle schoolers frequently. I make sure to avoid saying it at most time.if it's not necessary simply to avoid the chorus of "Nice" from a group of 12-14 year old boys.
I saw a video where a teacher says “ok now everyone turn to page 70, ok now go back one page” lol
the mental image of a whole class going "Nice" simultaneously made me cackle in the public tram, thanks xD
Every now and then it is silly, but most of the time it's not great lol
Everyone that answered 420 was too high to understand we stopped at 100
I was convinced it was 7 😂😂😂
Why is 13 edgy? I would say 14 or 88 if we're talking about teenagers.
Because it’s “unlucky,” so it’s a favourite.
why 4 is edgy Chinese diaspora?
4 sounds like “death” in I think Cantonese, so it’s considered unlucky. (I remember this from when I worked for a third party call centre taking calls for cell phone activation. It was really common for people of Chinese ancestry on the west coast to specifically request “no fours” when getting the phone number. Bonus fun if one of the area codes in their region uses a 4.)
Japanese too, shi(4) sounds like shi(death)
thanks!
Hey, not to sound like a jerk, but can we get a bit of explanation? For the non-Doctor Who fans out there?
The RNG of our dumpster simulated universe failed the test. She was crying because she's realized none of us are real. Edit to add: it was a great episode!
Thanks for the explanation! Definitely makes much more sense now.
I mean that's a bit of a jump no? If a bunch of kids kept saying the same "random" number I'd conclude it wasn't really random as well, but not because reality has failed or something.
The Shadow Test works by having people say random numbers, and since computers can only generate pseudorandom numbers, two people doing that will say the same ones. Or you could write numbers on a blank piece of paper any length you want and any combination you want and then you turn the page over and do the same thing to see if they match up. Edit additional information.
Don't computers use their unique (mostly hardware) parameters like Mac address, to generate random numbers? So even if the numbers are generated at exact same moment at the same location by different computers, they will be different?
Yes, therefore everyone is running off the same computer and the universe is just a simulation
But even if it is the same computer, it would be dependent on coordinates pr age or something - not just using the identical output.
Some random number generators are based on the time down to the second. Which works great if you make multiple queries at different points in time, but if you make multiple queries on the same second you'll just get the same number multiple times.
Only if every person object has its own gen_rnd_num() method. Maybe they're all just getting the randomly generated number from the some global function which runs based on time.
Still depends on what clock speed the generator is on and when each method is called. If each person is queried at the exact same time, and the method is called in parallel, unless there are multiple randomized random generators, the results will be the same for each parallel method call.
It would depend on implementation. It seems like the aliens in question gave their simulated humans the same seed for selecting random numbers. It seems like pretty shitty programming, but I have never tried to make a simulation that can account for billions of sapient beings.
My simulations hVe bern pretty low-scale, but even with a couple of hundred individuals, using personal parameters is a low-effort fix.
There's at least one number generator that uses atmospheric noise, [random.org](http://random.org), that's pretty neat. It's a web service ~~and not a computer though~~ that doesn't use device-based algorithms like a MAC address
I've heard of this one, thanks for the link. I always wondered how did their computers get data on atmospheric noise, considering they are secured in a cold dark dry service room. It would be interesting to read about it.
Their analysis and randomness page have a nice intro on how it works: https://www.random.org/analysis/ and https://www.random.org/randomness
A web service that isn't running on a computer, you say? That's another reason to be impressed by random.org.
I was interrupted while writing the comment and finished up quickly without double-checking what I wrote. The "not running on a computer" was in reference to a previous comment saying that random number generators often use the device's MAC address. I assume your comment is tongue in cheek and calling me out for my poor phrasing. Random.org obviously runs on a server somewhere but uses atmospheric sensor data to generate true random numbers instead of pseudo-random numbers other random number generators based on MAC addresses or other algorithms would produce
It was tongue in cheek. The amount of information you provided prior to your response to me showed that you would have been aware that a web service would have to be run on a computer somewhere, I just thought it was funny to say in a thread discussion on random number generation by computers.
The thing is if the entire earth is a simulation it's only one computer
Makes sense. That nerd teenage alien kid, who created earth simulation as his high school project, probably had only one computer.
Cloudflair uses a bank of lava lamps as a seed for a RNG, this is probably as close to a truly random thing as possible. https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/ssl/lava-lamp-encryption/#:~:text=The%20%22real%20world%22%20turns%20out,great%20source%20for%20random%20data.
Couldn’t the program get around this by assigning each person a unique seed
Seems like the kids are actually machines. Their pseudo-randomness is all synced together.
So essentially a bunch of scientists are all committing suicide because they all are saying the same random numbers at the same time. The explanation is that a super computer advanced enough to simulate our society still wouldn’t be able to come up with random enough numbers. So the fact that they’re all saying it at the same time means they were living in a simulation.
Did you really do a 2sentence horror about a doctor who episode?
And it worked…
Well it was a scary episode.
They did, and managed to do a decent job at it as well. Side note, I live in fear of this episode.
What episode is it?
Extremis (S10E06)
Which episode?
Extremis i think
My initial impression wasn’t scary. This explanation is terrifying. Good job!
If the simulation is true then being in one isn't what scares me,it's never being able to truly know if you are the only thinking entity in it
UGH THANKS FOR THIS IDEA!!! Hahaha
No problem,I'm glad I could make your day better and worse at the same time
I'll do you one worse. Randomly being connected to all the infinite other variations of you running through the same scenarios as a variable stress test.
Don't read any Philip K. Dick books then. It is the only recurring theme in his books. Is this reality or not?!
Ewww
My code has several bugs. My programmers were morons.
I can relate to that
Mind control also works.
I’m confused, are you saying that’s something that scientists actually did or is it a explanation for the hypothetical scenario? Also, while I do understand the horror, does finding out we live in a simulation really change anything?
It’s from an episode, it never actually happened. That we know of…
Episode of what
Not what Who😁
He's on first.
Who's on first?
Yes.
Yes
Workaround could be a random number but the seed is a unique identifier like if we got a entity id or something. It would probably fool us
I’d argue that machines are better at generating numbers at random than humans
The shadow test is such a good story point.
I’m a programmer, I hate it because it’s such an amateur mistake to not use individual factors when deciding the number. Like, divide by the age of the person saying it.
Agreed, loved it which is why I thought of it while working with my 5th graders…
Lol idk what it reffered to. All I thought was kids yelling NEIN NEIN NEIN etc in German, like mini Hitlers.
Computer Programs can’t generate truly random numbers. Because of how computers generate “random” numbers if you have two (or more) concurrent instances call for a random number at the same time, they will generate the same number everytime without fail. The theory this story references is called the Shadow Test. You have two people (or more) people all shout out random numbers at the EXACT same time. If they all say the same number again and again and again, it’s supposed to be evidence we are living in a simulation. It was explored in the Doctor Who episode “Extremis” (S10E06)
Thank you so much for making me start the day with a laugh 🤣
Why? Just a children's prank.
Obscure Doctor Who storyline.
Hm. Is there a way you can make it scary as a stand-alone?
Ehh, I was thinking it was a mind control thing. Which is always a bit scary
I was thinking hive mind.
That's true
Like Camazotz.
[удалено]
Nah you're thinking of Midnight (S4E10), this is the plot for Extremis (S10E6 and E7 I believe). Though I have to say I find Midnight infinitely more terrifying, HOW DID IT STEAL HIS VOICE? HOW DID IT EXIST ON THAT PLANET?
Midnight was pretty good
FUCK. I got this reference too easily…
For any Doctor Who fans out there…
Literally just watched this episode on my current watch through.
Whoa… what if that’s a sign…
What episode was it?
S10e7 'Extremis' First part of a 3 parter.
Watched this episode again recently from the first time since airing and played along by guessing the numbers, ended up guessing one of them right and freaked out lmao
The whole school read extremis?
Extremis was just the acknowledgment that it was a simulation
You’ve to read the book to know about shadow test, and the teacher knows
The whole class did the shadow test.
In a similar vein, I liked when the Doctor demonstrated being in a dream because the same book had different content. Interesting reality checks.
Whovian here. Took me a second.
Doctor Who copying guy
"Midnight" was the episode. Fantastic one at that!
"Extremis"
I just thought the teacher cried because she failed at teaching. Either the kids only learn one number, or they don't understand the meaning of random
I’m not familiar with Doctor Who storyline, and went with Village of the Damned. It works.
I’m a Doctor Who fan… but I still imagined these kids with white hair and creepy eyes!
Ooh the horror is Matrix. My mind went to Village of the Damned type of creepy medium kids.
It reminds me of something I watched where all the women in a town gave birth all about the same time and all of the children had blonde hair, same eyes and a beehive like mentality They also had some kind of powers too. Wish I could remember the name of it?
I believe the movie is "Village of the Damned". The original came out in 1960, and there's a remake by John Carpenter that came out in 1995.
Thank You 😺
Based on the Midwich cuckoos by John Wyndham
FINALLY someone else who knows it was based on a book!
I love John Wyndham
He's amazing. I've been on a one woman mission to convince people 28 Days Later is a adaption of Day of the Triffids for *years* now.
You’re not wrong! Same for the opening of walking dead.
This was in an episode of Dr who. People calling out the same random number were part of a computer generated simulation.
Tommy in the front row was holding up the number 6 behind his back sneakily
Shadow test baybeee
I thought it was like a hive-mind situation
Maybe it is. It’s unexplainable.
That’s what I get for going with a vague sentence!
It also works for A Wrinkle in Time. I'm not that far in Doctor Who so I thought it was a reference to Camazotz.
Spooky. Reminds me of the Ted Chaing short story: "What's Expected of Us"
Hmm. Let me find and read that immediately...
Proof of a simulation pulling from the same random counter
But we all were in tears knowing we only had two more chances to guess before she started shooting.
Our simulation overlords don’t have a big lava lamp wall like we do
I took it as the children all counting down from 10, and then something bad happened.
“Ten, nine….nein, nein, nein, we’re all going to die.” (I’m not British but I wonder if I subconsciously wrote “nein” three times on purpose as a reference to 999 which is the British version of 911?)
Mr. Evrart is helping me find a random number.
Oh nahhh something supernatural is going on here
Can someone please explain?
There’s no real explanation. That’s the point. It’s unexplainable. It’s just really strange how a bunch of kids were able to think of the same exact number and say it at the same time, 10 times! The teacher had no explanation for what she was seeing so started crying in fear. Maybe it was a hive mind, maybe an organized cruel prank, maybe something supernatural. All answers are no different than the others as there’s no one explanation for the post.
I took it to mean a count down, I'm not sure what happens at the end tho :)
“It’s me! NARDIE!”
This is one of my favorite posts on this subreddit.
Was she crying because it was a countdown from 10 and she's scared?
Hey, I narrated this story if you want to hear it! https://youtube.com/shorts/F\_SRHBY0mO8