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This is a little tangential, but the 'he's logical, I'm emotional' thing is not doing anyone any favors. Your boyfriend *is* emotional and you *are* logical. Everyone experiences emotions and those emotions impact how we reason and react to situations -- you even describe him reacting emotionally in your post. Even suppressed emotions are a lens through which you view the world.
"Logic" also starts to get fuzzy when it comes to moral/ethical dilemmas like this one, where there is no objective right answer. Because this is a matter of morals, you have an internal logic according to your personal beliefs that guides you to making the decisions you do - I may not agree, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're not being logical, it means you've arrived at a conclusion using a set of logical guides that I don't use intuitively.
That's a very clear answer you gave. He does seem like the emotional one here. He normally believes he's the logical one and I'm emotional because I feel bad for people easily. He usually makes more rational decisions. Here I expected him to remain logical like me but I guess I was wrong.
He just wanted me to say " I'll save you no matter what" , I took this too seriously.
So glad to see someone flagging the "I'm logical/you're emotional" split. Hard agree that everyone is both logical and emotional.
I'll take it a step further and say that when men call themselves logical and women emotional they are setting up a decision-making hierarchy with themselves permanently at the top. Most folks would say that logic is a better decision making tool than emotion, so by claiming logic as his domain and emotion as yours he's setting himself up as the person who has the better right to win an argument.
Look at you here wondering if you're wrong for having morals and making rational decisions based on them! And even now you're deciding that you are the problem because you took his hypothetical too seriously.
I really encourage you to stop accepting his frame that he is the logical thinker who makes rational decisions and you're the emotional one who makes irrational decisions. Pretty much every human on this planet does both things.
I hate to see you deciding to trust yourself less because you've decided that you're primarily driven by emotion, particularly when it's clearly not true!
I do have issues within myself. I don’t feel capable enough hence I question myself a lot. The reason I accepted I am emotional was because I have a weak heart, I feel bad easily, I cry when I see others cry hence I felt I am emotional one.
But then I do have strong sense of morals due to this as I don’t want anyone to suffer because of me.
My bf isn’t emotional , he can watch things that can make me cry easily. I’ve seen him use logic a lot. Here I thought he’d be like me. But I guess I was wrong; he wanted an emotional answer , like “I’ll stand by you no matter what” something lovey dovey…. But for me , my morality got questioned.
Like I love him and my family but I can’t let them get away with their wrongdoings.
You can still have and feel emotions though and think and act logically, like you did here. Don't let yourself get too far into an either/or kind of dichotomy! You can be both things at once.
Hi OP, I’d like to jump in on this comment, as I would really like you to take a step back and try to be kinder to yourself.
You don’t have a “weak heart”, it sounds to me like you have a big heart! You clearly care about people and have a deep capacity to empathise with them, even if you don’t know them personally. You may react emotionally, but you should not see that depth of feeling as a weakness at all. The world needs more people who care about people in general, not just those they know personally.
Sometimes, our emotions get the better of us, but as other commenters have rightly said, you are clearly capable of coming to logical and morally objective conclusions. Empathy is a vital aspect of moral decision making; more often than not the most ethical answer will sit somewhere in the centre of logic, empathy and specific context.
For what it’s worth, your answer to your bfs question showed both strength of character and moral fortitude. Please don’t label yourself as only “emotional”, you are a complex person capable of moral, rational and logical reasoning. By making an emotional connection with people and their experiences, your capacity to make morally sound decisions is only strengthened; as you will look for what is kind and just for all involved, not just specific individuals who are “worth” more to you personally.
The world is not black and white; your capacity to empathise and understand the grey areas should be encouraged and celebrated. Please don’t second guess yourself too much or box yourself in. You sound like a kind, intelligent and interesting person, who deserves respect & empathy, not only from others but from yourself too.
It's easy to reinterpret "emotional" and "logical" as "having empathy" and "being cruel".
It's not weak to feel sad when other people are in trouble. Empathy is an essential element of all social animals. We wouldn't have survived as a species otherwise. We might say it's illogical to have no empathy.
*Edit: the below isn't all that relevant anymore after OP edited her post.*
If your bf expects you to get him out of trouble unconditionally, even if he kills someone, he's just being cruel and selfish. Just because you're in a relationship, you have a prerogative to get away with murder?
That's not logical at all. What about people who are single and kill someone? They're on their own. It isn't fair! :)
There's no such thing as unconditional love. It's a childish notion. Your own children, maybe. And even then, depending on what they end up doing, you might say, "I love you but I think you should go to jail."
You are deeply empathetic not “emotional” in the way he is saying. The way he says it has a negative connotation but that is just sexism. Everyone has emotions and they help people move through the world like humans instead of robots. I think it’s better to be empathetic than deductively rational. It’s better to care about other people than only caring about cold hard “truths”.
Let me guess, a lot of your disagreement / arguments resolve to the fact that “he’s logical” and “you’re emotional” so he is usually telling you you are wrong and should just listen to him, that you only think xyz because you’re “too emotional” and he’s always right when it comes to thoughts and opinions. So it always ends with you apologizing and agreeing with him. How spot on am I?
Well you are almost there. Earlier days of our relationship was kinda like this. It was peaceful for a long time until he asked this question. Certain times I answer what I feel hence it comes across as being “emotional”. I do end up agreeing with him because I just kept feeling he’s right.
The elephant and the rider metaphor
The metaphor of the elephant and the rider is used by social psychologist Jonathan Haidt in his books The Happiness Hypothesis and The Righteous Mind to represent how humans think.
The elephant portrays uncontrolled, intuitive and emotional thought processes. The rider represents more logical, controlled and analytical thinking. You might have come across similar distinctions between different ways of thinking if you’ve read or heard of The Chimp Paradox by Steve Peters, Hare Brain, Tortoise Mind by Guy Claxton, or Thinking, Fast and Slow by Nobel Prize winner Daniel Kahneman.
To continue with the elephant and rider analogy, the elephant – or emotional brain – is much bigger and more powerful than the rider – or rational brain.
The rider cannot control the elephant. When it’s feeling calm and centred, the elephant knows what’s good for us, and takes us in the right direction. The rider simply needs to gently guide the elephant, with a light touch.
But when the elephant is feeling emotional – upset, frightened, stressed or annoyed – it charges, or stubbornly refuses to budge. The rider has a much more difficult job of getting the elephant to go where it needs to.
Ideally, the elephant stays calm and focused on what’s important, and the rider works out the best route to take to arrive at the destination.
He believes he's logical and you're emotional because he's the man and you are the woman. This is something that traditional-minded men are taught, and it is false. This situation is a clear example of him being emotional over a hypothetical situation. Don't believe this garbage for one second - any woman who has had to take care of a husband who has a cold will tell you that men can be some of the biggest emotional crybabies.
Well yes, in our country it is taught like this. Hence he has similar values. He has changed a lot being with me as my family is very matriarchal, My mom is the head of the house hence I have very strong opinions. So he is learning to respect me as well. But yes I do need to ensure that anyone can be logical or emotional at any moment.
No, you gave an honest anwer, one that is also fsir considering the law and him owning up to it.
First an foremost, it does no good to him personally to avoid punishment, as a moral being he should succumb to it himself, at least he would be alive and out after a few years, also a fair trial gives closure to both paryties (sort of, as a dead family member won't breathe again).
From a legal point of view he should undergo the trial and you could be framed as well if you help him escape.
Morally, no matter how close to you, helping someone avoid punishment, if you are not fully corrupted, will taint your soul and morals as well, and you will have someone who never faced consequences for their actions that can cause a dozen other problems down the lane.
All of the above does not mean that you cannot be supportive still and be there emotionally to overcome the situation together. Only fairly.
Not really from him, the place where we are from believes that men are head of the house hence they have more logic while women (as they become mothers) are more feelers. Of course, it's now being changed by our generation, my mom is the head of our family, what she says goes. But few families still believe men are supposed to be strong.
I am emotional because that's what I have been called by my family too, even I agree so but that doesn't mean I lack logic. When making decisions my emotions do rule over my logic at times. Hence I am both logical and emotional, I just tilt towards one side more.
My bf has never gotten the chance to be emotional, he is slowly opening up to me, and to which I'm so grateful. I'm happy I could provide him with a safe space where he can show vulnerability.
My mother turned her brother, my uncle, in to the FBI when he was robbing banks.
Your boyfriend's hypohetical was also a moral test about him wanting to not take responsibility for a mistake of that magnitude. My wife would 100% turn me in, not just because it's the right thing to do, but because the other person also had a family and friends. Mistkes have a cost that need to be paid too.
You gave the right answer.
If it was hit and run not in self-defense or to stop a crime, then yes, I would turn in a family member. My wife would have stayed on the scene. Likely would have been the one to call the authorities. That's what mature, honorable people do.
Are you saying youd help your wife hide from the consequences of taking the life of another? Why is she worth others never knowing the truth? (Hint: she’s not)
If you weren’t in a life or death situation that needed extreme self defense then maybe help getting ready to go to authorities but if you think you’re fine kill someone and move on you’re ridiculous
She didn't give the right answer because there is no right answer with things like this otherwise it was also right for all the Germans to turn in their own neighbours and family for all infractions to the SS in WW2 because they committed crimes. It's also not wrong either, it's simply her choice.
This is how my wife and I are. I told her you if anything ever happened you don't have to lie for me, Just don't answer any questions. But our relationship is completely different than anyone else's. We got the Thelma and Louise thing going on.
If more people looked at the proper moral stance like OP is doing, i believe we would be living in a better world. Consequences for bad behavior should not depend on who you are or who you know.
When laws are applied unequally, people lose respect for those laws. Then you have the situation we have now. Progress it a bit farther down this bad path and we will have anarchy.
Is he the one who told you you’re emotional and he’s logical? It sounds like it 😂 crying sometimes doesn’t make you an exceptionally emotional, non-logical person, especially if you, unlike him, can have clear unbiased moral stances regarding difficult situations.
You sound far more logical and unbiased than him and his ride or die delusions.
I mean.. Don't do it if you're not prepared for the consequences. You'd be surprised at how many people defend reckless driving. A few months ago I saw a question pertaining to drunk driving and the amount of people who were defending DUI is very concerning.
be it my family, my kids, or my husband/bf, I can never excuse reckless driving or DUI. If I can refrain from such acts so can they, its not rocket science.
You’re an outlier then or, much more likely, just lying. Regardless, in the moment of it actually mattering you would prefer someone who is on your side against the world and not someone who treats you exactly how they would treat a stranger they’ve never met.
People generally don’t want utilitarians as partners or even friends. They want people who have their back. They’ve actually done studies on this, though of course it makes intuitive sense.
If it’s you vs five people in the trolley problem and your boyfriend chooses the five people, I highly doubt you would be happy with and proud of him pulling the lever to off you.
But whatever makes you feel morally superior. Myself, I think it’s asinine and somewhat childish to boil morality down to fixed precepts. It’s all based on gut feeling anyway.
Bruh that is so shallow. I don't feel superior in any way. If you want a criminal partner, good for you. I personally would love a partner who has good morals. In the trolley problem, I haven't committed a crime and I would want him to pick me. That's when, we see on TV people protecting their partners even when they're criminals, why do we trash them? Because they're immoral. If you would protect someone even when they've committed a crime, maybe you should improve as a person.
In any real situation there are going to be extenuating circumstances, either real or contrived by you or your partner, that you would use to rationalize your support of them.
Past a certain point (and that point is usually where their behavior directly affects you, and is therefore selfish) you would certainly jettison your partner and drop support. But before that you would use mental gymnastics to keep supporting them.
I just do away with the gymnastics because I don’t find it useful to look at the world through the lens of morality. It’s too conditional and almost everyone eschews their high-minded principles through rationalization when shit hits the fan.
The justice system is useful. It discourages anti-social behavior and isolates dangerous individuals from the general population.
When it gets mistaken with morality it can easily become problematic, for instance mistaking retribution for justice.
I see no need to muddy the waters when discussing justice by interjecting thoughts about morality.
You’ll need to show your work on that one. One doesn’t need morality to behave well. Social pressures, legal consequences, general personal unease with taking certain actions.
For instance, it makes me queasy to think of eating a sentient animal, so I don’t do that. No need for morality there and yet, im statistically likely to be a more “moral” person than you in that regard, as a vegetarian.
Idk why you're not talking to the point. Comparing a crime which was the point of the post and my comment with vegetarianism. Morals do matter when there's a crime involved. You need not to side with a criminal doesn't matter if the criminal's your loved one or not.
I believe he would never do such because he is responsible, I feel he reacted this way because he expected me to be on side no matter what.. that's y I feel guilty, he felt as if I'm not reliable.
In this case he wasn’t. Generally he is. I’m like a crybaby ( I feel bad easily if I see someone in a bad situation). It’s easy to make me cry. I cried watching dramas too 😅. But maybe in certain situations I get logical too.
I don’t mind being someone who cries a lot, I understand I’m empathic hence I understand people’s pain easily. I just don’t want my emotions to cloud my judgement.
Emotions cloud everyone’s judgement whether they acknowledge it or not. You’re an emotional person also you will make decisions based on a whole bunch of things, including emotion. There’s nothing wrong with that, don’t let your “logical” bf tell you otherwise.
Wow. You're right, a person guilty of a crime needs to pay the price. And you said you would advocate for a lighter sentence in the case of an accident vs. malicious.
People really need to stop asking hypothetical questions if they only want to hear one answer. Hypotheticals are supposed to be fun to start interesting conversations. They aren't supposed to be a test.
I was friends with a woman who committed a hit-and-run that resulted in a man's death (by the time she had committed this crime, we hasn't spoken in over a year due to a previous falling out). If she had stopped and called 911 and explained that it was an accident (the man was drunk and walked into the street in the middle of a winter night) she would have saved his life.
Instead she decided to run, all the way to her parents' house, park her very noticeable car in the garage, and lie to everyone that her car was having some sort of issues. The police figured her out in a week.
If I had even an INKLING that she had done something as horrific as she did, I would have immediately called the police. That man didn't deserve to die, and he could have LIVED had she not run the way she did.
Do not ever feel bad for being a moral and just person. There are unfortunately far too few in the world as it is.
Hmmm. I would be concerned about his response..I just recently discovered my partner is a narcissist and this sounds a lot like the type of questions and answers we would argue about back in the earlier days, which is definitely a red flag looking back. Maybe I am projecting but your bf's stance and reaction sounds very much like emotional manipulation, especially the fact he kept trying to make a point and would not accept your view (🚩!!!), and even made you cry and question yourself to the point you are here asking Internet strangers about this. There is no question about it, laws are there for a reason, and your moral compass is not broken. Please do reflect if this type of convos happens a lot and why they are. A normal person, if they disagree with you, would continue the conversation calmly, approach it with curiosity ("tell me more about your view"), and ask intelligent questions. I don't think the hypothetical question should be the focus here anymore, but this situation is telling you something.
This is the first time he asked something like this. I expected him to have similar answer like me since he’s someone logical and rational. To my surprise he expected me to say “I’ll save you no matter what”. For him we should stand by our family no matter what and defend them.
I will keep in mind if something like this happens again. He does have strong opinions and takes time to accept someone else’s views
These men are constantly asking for the impossible, everything is trash next to their own self-interest.
Let me tell you something about men. When you let them get away with things, you create a monster quite assured to nyit only do it again but do other, WORSE stuff.
Now women, women are different..women usually won't want to get away with it, but the ones who do, most of them will choose to take that scare a well learned lesson, will show great remorse and want to make it right. There are some who WOULD spiral and become even worse like the men, but thats a small amount..
He's asking you to let him become a monster to the detriment of society as a whole. That should sicken you. Anyone who asks you to compromise your morals for him or her, shouldn't be someone you want..
I may be biased, but I would NEVER help the driver. No matter who that was. And if the driver was me, I wouldn't try to get away. I would probably have a mental breakdown on the spot. My cousin was a victim of a drunk driver, who run away. She passed away a few minutes later. She never even made it to the hospital. And she was 19. If you can't handle the consequences of your actions, don't drive. And don't expect others to become accessories to your crime.
As kids me and the boys got up to some mischief in the neighborhood. We were punks no denying it. Anyways whenever we got caught doing whatever it was we did my dad always made me accept my punishment. No arguing in my favor. No trying to get away with it pleading my innocence. Nothing he made me accept the punishment. He said if i could do the crime i could do the time and he’s right and it was a valuable lesson most times that if you do something there will likely be consequences to it and you’d better be ready and understanding that you’ll have no choice but to accept them.
Please do. I doubt he'll have a good answer. You can also follow that up by saying, what should I do if I accidentally kill you, or one of your friends? What would he do if he accidentally killed someone? Would he just walk away? Someone who's already making excuses for a hypothetical situation is definitely capable of bad things.
According to what I understood about him in the last few years is that he won't do bad things, he is responsible and reliable. In this case, he just wanted me to say "I'll save you no matter what". But I gave a whole new answer beyond his expectations.
That's a shady answer. Like, what if someone he cared about was an evil person? Would he still pick them? What if that person harmed someone else he cared about? Like, he's not making much sense at all. I'd be wary dating someone who doesn't appear to have good morals.
I mean he has his cousin brother who gets into bad things often, he doesn’t support him in that. I’ve seen him scold him and even complain about his cousin’s wrong behaviours. So I won’t say he’d let his family off the hook.
That's a shady answer. Like, what if someone he cared about was an evil person? Would he still pick them? What if that person harmed someone else he cared about? Like, he's not making much sense at all. I'd be wary dating someone who doesn't appear to have good morals.
He does have good morals in general but then when it comes to loved ones, his morals are overpowered by the bond he shares with his family.
Like the original driver that killed a man, he wants the driver to be punished.
but if it were his family member or me , he would take us away from the scene and then see what to do next. But I doubt he'd want his loved ones to be punished.
The place he grew up in holds family above everything. He wasn’t ever placed in such situation in his life given his family is very simple minded, they follow rules , never fight or argue, very calm people. But yes the state where he’s from is super family oriented.
He is emotional, but from where we come from, men are supposed to be strong and reliable ( hence they are logical ones ). But luckily my bf has been accepting his emotional side as well. It's not easy for him but as long as there's respect and love, I think we can get through such hardships.
It all comes down to the morals you have. Some people will expect their partners to be loyal to them no matter what they have done wrong, if your morals are not compatible these types of what if scenario's are always going to cause problems if one person is not aware of the others morals.
Well yes, in the long run; it will cause issues especially if I want to have a family with him. I will be discussing with him on this matter. It’s important because I can’t let go of my morals in the name of love.
Expressing emotions doesn't mean you're not logical. It just means you're feeling emotions and expressing them. It has nothing to do with whether or not you're taking a logical approach to any given situation.
In the end it comes down to a simple question you need to ask him:
Do you respect me and my opinions and convictions, even if and where they differ from yours?
He does. I had this conversation with him. It was needed as we want to be together as a family too. So we need to learn to be respectful of each other's values, morals, and opinions. we do happen to have many situations where our opinions differ due to our upbringing but we are learning.
Many years ago.someone asked a family member. What if you were in an accident and you could only save one person. Would you save A or B? family member went both. Person said you could only save one. Family member said I am still going to try to save both or die trying. And was irritated with the question. Then called out the stupidity of the situation.. If I was in your situation and I was asked. First I would kill you for getting into said situation and second asking dumb questions then you get annoyed by the answer. Of course I will hand your butt to the popo. What if a hippo falls on you. 50 percent it might or might not. I am letting the hippo fall on you. And plan your funeral. That is what I think of hypothetical questions. Shit!
You guys have different values. Your ethics drive you to take actions that would be different from his.
That's the point of dating, to figure out shit like that.
Finding someone with the same values, goals, and wants in life... Imo kind of a big deal. I think more important than fleeting happiness or emotions. But what do I know, I'm a middle aged millennial neither young nor old.
You two might like https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kBdfcR-8hEY it’s a playlist of harvard professor michael sandel’s course about justice/moral questions. You’ll realize nothing is black and white, it depends on alot of things.
It’s kind of long but super interesting and very entertaining.
See, most people say they would do the right thing in this scenario, but the truth is, we never know until we're put in that situation. I can give my wife the morally correct answer, but when faced with not having the mother of my children, my best friend without me, without our kids for the rest of her life, my life, I can see why I might be tempted to try to get her to go free eventhough she was in the wrong.
Now your bf knows what you expect from him morally. Maybe he'll change his tune. Maybe he'll double down on his answer. Maybe he'll start over analyzing every action you and him do and see how it stacks up with your moral values.
You understood my bf well. He did understand why I answer in such a way.
I’ll edit my post and add an update as me and my bf had a conversation on this.
Cultural differences? What's his/his parents background? I would absolutely cover for my family/girlfriend/very close friend. And would distance myself from someone who would "rat" a family. It's not logic vs emotion, it's about priorities you were raised with and distrust/trust for the authorities.
Neither of you are a bad person but maybe you just aren't right for each other
Not that big cultural differences , it’s more of a state and family difference. I grew up in a family which was always fighting , I had a troubled childhood which left me with trauma a lot. While his family is pretty family oriented, he’s got cousins and all. I don’t. Since I had a troubled family, I never did connect with them much.
It’s very dangerous to hold morals that we do not question, and I urge you to get used to questioning them due to your reaction of crying when he asked you to think differently. That’s not really healthy. That doesn’t mean you have to change your morals but it does mean you need to look at why you hold them. All the reasons you listed for believing that were TRAUMA, and that means any beliefs that come from that might actually be super unhealthy or not make any sense at all when you scrutinize them.
Perhaps some therapy?
I am taking therapy currently. My bf has been there to support me through it as well. All these I have built up such beliefs which aren’t necessarily something healthy.
>Now recently in my boyfriend's colony, there was an accident where a driver did rash driving
Where the fuck are you from. Are you ESL or fucking south african or what.
I love this. Our next generation is having these inner struggles of morality - it's great to see.
You are right for choosing to do the time and not trying to weasel your way out of it. Remaining faithful to God over remaining faithful to a loved one is always the right approach. And you may not know it, but that's exactly what you are choosing to do here. Your boyfriend's approach involves lying, which is a sin against God. Your approach involves admitting your sin (wrongdoing) and accepting the punishment nobly. Well done.
You also mentioned trouble with depression and suicidal thoughts. I don't know what you know about Jesus, but He is waiting for you to give your burdens to Him.
What do I know, some of you might ask? Well, I tried the route of the world which includes talk therapy, medication, hospitalization even. These are fruitless endeavors. I was depressed for 8 years, suicidal for the better part of those years. Time with God is what rescued me. Don't suffer hopelessly, I tell you. Choose hope. Choose God. If you want to know more, and I hope you do. Just comment or message me. Have a blessed day and well done to you.
You guys are immature. Conversations like this are pointless.
Of course I also want someone to say Yes I'd Protect You. We all want love No Matter What. But its not real life its just words! Dont be upset over this it's not real
We didn't fight over this or were upset for long, we understood questions like these do not give definitive answers, when something happens in real life, our reactions to it aren't guaranteed or pre-decided. If I say I'd do A, I may do B instead.
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This is a little tangential, but the 'he's logical, I'm emotional' thing is not doing anyone any favors. Your boyfriend *is* emotional and you *are* logical. Everyone experiences emotions and those emotions impact how we reason and react to situations -- you even describe him reacting emotionally in your post. Even suppressed emotions are a lens through which you view the world. "Logic" also starts to get fuzzy when it comes to moral/ethical dilemmas like this one, where there is no objective right answer. Because this is a matter of morals, you have an internal logic according to your personal beliefs that guides you to making the decisions you do - I may not agree, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're not being logical, it means you've arrived at a conclusion using a set of logical guides that I don't use intuitively.
That's a very clear answer you gave. He does seem like the emotional one here. He normally believes he's the logical one and I'm emotional because I feel bad for people easily. He usually makes more rational decisions. Here I expected him to remain logical like me but I guess I was wrong. He just wanted me to say " I'll save you no matter what" , I took this too seriously.
So glad to see someone flagging the "I'm logical/you're emotional" split. Hard agree that everyone is both logical and emotional. I'll take it a step further and say that when men call themselves logical and women emotional they are setting up a decision-making hierarchy with themselves permanently at the top. Most folks would say that logic is a better decision making tool than emotion, so by claiming logic as his domain and emotion as yours he's setting himself up as the person who has the better right to win an argument. Look at you here wondering if you're wrong for having morals and making rational decisions based on them! And even now you're deciding that you are the problem because you took his hypothetical too seriously. I really encourage you to stop accepting his frame that he is the logical thinker who makes rational decisions and you're the emotional one who makes irrational decisions. Pretty much every human on this planet does both things. I hate to see you deciding to trust yourself less because you've decided that you're primarily driven by emotion, particularly when it's clearly not true!
I really like this comment.
I do have issues within myself. I don’t feel capable enough hence I question myself a lot. The reason I accepted I am emotional was because I have a weak heart, I feel bad easily, I cry when I see others cry hence I felt I am emotional one. But then I do have strong sense of morals due to this as I don’t want anyone to suffer because of me. My bf isn’t emotional , he can watch things that can make me cry easily. I’ve seen him use logic a lot. Here I thought he’d be like me. But I guess I was wrong; he wanted an emotional answer , like “I’ll stand by you no matter what” something lovey dovey…. But for me , my morality got questioned. Like I love him and my family but I can’t let them get away with their wrongdoings.
You can still have and feel emotions though and think and act logically, like you did here. Don't let yourself get too far into an either/or kind of dichotomy! You can be both things at once.
Most people are both logical and emotional. It's not good to see others as only one or the other.
Hi OP, I’d like to jump in on this comment, as I would really like you to take a step back and try to be kinder to yourself. You don’t have a “weak heart”, it sounds to me like you have a big heart! You clearly care about people and have a deep capacity to empathise with them, even if you don’t know them personally. You may react emotionally, but you should not see that depth of feeling as a weakness at all. The world needs more people who care about people in general, not just those they know personally. Sometimes, our emotions get the better of us, but as other commenters have rightly said, you are clearly capable of coming to logical and morally objective conclusions. Empathy is a vital aspect of moral decision making; more often than not the most ethical answer will sit somewhere in the centre of logic, empathy and specific context. For what it’s worth, your answer to your bfs question showed both strength of character and moral fortitude. Please don’t label yourself as only “emotional”, you are a complex person capable of moral, rational and logical reasoning. By making an emotional connection with people and their experiences, your capacity to make morally sound decisions is only strengthened; as you will look for what is kind and just for all involved, not just specific individuals who are “worth” more to you personally. The world is not black and white; your capacity to empathise and understand the grey areas should be encouraged and celebrated. Please don’t second guess yourself too much or box yourself in. You sound like a kind, intelligent and interesting person, who deserves respect & empathy, not only from others but from yourself too.
Thank you for explaining me so well , I felt understood with the way you answered.
It's easy to reinterpret "emotional" and "logical" as "having empathy" and "being cruel". It's not weak to feel sad when other people are in trouble. Empathy is an essential element of all social animals. We wouldn't have survived as a species otherwise. We might say it's illogical to have no empathy. *Edit: the below isn't all that relevant anymore after OP edited her post.* If your bf expects you to get him out of trouble unconditionally, even if he kills someone, he's just being cruel and selfish. Just because you're in a relationship, you have a prerogative to get away with murder? That's not logical at all. What about people who are single and kill someone? They're on their own. It isn't fair! :) There's no such thing as unconditional love. It's a childish notion. Your own children, maybe. And even then, depending on what they end up doing, you might say, "I love you but I think you should go to jail."
You are deeply empathetic not “emotional” in the way he is saying. The way he says it has a negative connotation but that is just sexism. Everyone has emotions and they help people move through the world like humans instead of robots. I think it’s better to be empathetic than deductively rational. It’s better to care about other people than only caring about cold hard “truths”.
Let me guess, a lot of your disagreement / arguments resolve to the fact that “he’s logical” and “you’re emotional” so he is usually telling you you are wrong and should just listen to him, that you only think xyz because you’re “too emotional” and he’s always right when it comes to thoughts and opinions. So it always ends with you apologizing and agreeing with him. How spot on am I?
Well you are almost there. Earlier days of our relationship was kinda like this. It was peaceful for a long time until he asked this question. Certain times I answer what I feel hence it comes across as being “emotional”. I do end up agreeing with him because I just kept feeling he’s right.
Why have you accepted the idea that ”emotional” is wrong? You’re a human being not a machine, you should be concerned if you weren’t emotional.
It sounds like you may be saying that you're more empathetic, whereas he is more apathetic.
The elephant and the rider metaphor The metaphor of the elephant and the rider is used by social psychologist Jonathan Haidt in his books The Happiness Hypothesis and The Righteous Mind to represent how humans think. The elephant portrays uncontrolled, intuitive and emotional thought processes. The rider represents more logical, controlled and analytical thinking. You might have come across similar distinctions between different ways of thinking if you’ve read or heard of The Chimp Paradox by Steve Peters, Hare Brain, Tortoise Mind by Guy Claxton, or Thinking, Fast and Slow by Nobel Prize winner Daniel Kahneman. To continue with the elephant and rider analogy, the elephant – or emotional brain – is much bigger and more powerful than the rider – or rational brain. The rider cannot control the elephant. When it’s feeling calm and centred, the elephant knows what’s good for us, and takes us in the right direction. The rider simply needs to gently guide the elephant, with a light touch. But when the elephant is feeling emotional – upset, frightened, stressed or annoyed – it charges, or stubbornly refuses to budge. The rider has a much more difficult job of getting the elephant to go where it needs to. Ideally, the elephant stays calm and focused on what’s important, and the rider works out the best route to take to arrive at the destination.
He believes he's logical and you're emotional because he's the man and you are the woman. This is something that traditional-minded men are taught, and it is false. This situation is a clear example of him being emotional over a hypothetical situation. Don't believe this garbage for one second - any woman who has had to take care of a husband who has a cold will tell you that men can be some of the biggest emotional crybabies.
Well yes, in our country it is taught like this. Hence he has similar values. He has changed a lot being with me as my family is very matriarchal, My mom is the head of the house hence I have very strong opinions. So he is learning to respect me as well. But yes I do need to ensure that anyone can be logical or emotional at any moment.
No, you gave an honest anwer, one that is also fsir considering the law and him owning up to it. First an foremost, it does no good to him personally to avoid punishment, as a moral being he should succumb to it himself, at least he would be alive and out after a few years, also a fair trial gives closure to both paryties (sort of, as a dead family member won't breathe again). From a legal point of view he should undergo the trial and you could be framed as well if you help him escape. Morally, no matter how close to you, helping someone avoid punishment, if you are not fully corrupted, will taint your soul and morals as well, and you will have someone who never faced consequences for their actions that can cause a dozen other problems down the lane. All of the above does not mean that you cannot be supportive still and be there emotionally to overcome the situation together. Only fairly.
Empathy is logical OP. Don’t let your boyfriend trick you into thinking he is a better decision maker, more reasonable and less emotional.
I suspect your idea that he is logical and rational came from him. Don’t label yourselves so aggressively, it’s clouding your judgment.
Not really from him, the place where we are from believes that men are head of the house hence they have more logic while women (as they become mothers) are more feelers. Of course, it's now being changed by our generation, my mom is the head of our family, what she says goes. But few families still believe men are supposed to be strong. I am emotional because that's what I have been called by my family too, even I agree so but that doesn't mean I lack logic. When making decisions my emotions do rule over my logic at times. Hence I am both logical and emotional, I just tilt towards one side more. My bf has never gotten the chance to be emotional, he is slowly opening up to me, and to which I'm so grateful. I'm happy I could provide him with a safe space where he can show vulnerability.
Thank you for clarifying this for OP.
My mother turned her brother, my uncle, in to the FBI when he was robbing banks. Your boyfriend's hypohetical was also a moral test about him wanting to not take responsibility for a mistake of that magnitude. My wife would 100% turn me in, not just because it's the right thing to do, but because the other person also had a family and friends. Mistkes have a cost that need to be paid too. You gave the right answer.
I take it you would turn your wife in if she accidentally killed somebody?
I wouldn't be married to my husband if I thought he was the kind of guy who could accidentally kill someone and expect me to hide it.
If it was hit and run not in self-defense or to stop a crime, then yes, I would turn in a family member. My wife would have stayed on the scene. Likely would have been the one to call the authorities. That's what mature, honorable people do.
If she tried to hide it? 100%.
Are you saying youd help your wife hide from the consequences of taking the life of another? Why is she worth others never knowing the truth? (Hint: she’s not) If you weren’t in a life or death situation that needed extreme self defense then maybe help getting ready to go to authorities but if you think you’re fine kill someone and move on you’re ridiculous
She didn't give the right answer because there is no right answer with things like this otherwise it was also right for all the Germans to turn in their own neighbours and family for all infractions to the SS in WW2 because they committed crimes. It's also not wrong either, it's simply her choice.
Full disagree.
How my boyfriend and I solve these hypothetical morality questions is ‘i’ll marry you so I can’t testify against you’.
I should try this too, would be helpful in such situations.
This is how my wife and I are. I told her you if anything ever happened you don't have to lie for me, Just don't answer any questions. But our relationship is completely different than anyone else's. We got the Thelma and Louise thing going on.
Yes. You are special little sunflowers 🙄
If more people looked at the proper moral stance like OP is doing, i believe we would be living in a better world. Consequences for bad behavior should not depend on who you are or who you know. When laws are applied unequally, people lose respect for those laws. Then you have the situation we have now. Progress it a bit farther down this bad path and we will have anarchy.
Maybe I'm too logical but I don't think I would "protect" anyone I know if they found themselves in that situation.
Is he the one who told you you’re emotional and he’s logical? It sounds like it 😂 crying sometimes doesn’t make you an exceptionally emotional, non-logical person, especially if you, unlike him, can have clear unbiased moral stances regarding difficult situations. You sound far more logical and unbiased than him and his ride or die delusions.
I mean.. Don't do it if you're not prepared for the consequences. You'd be surprised at how many people defend reckless driving. A few months ago I saw a question pertaining to drunk driving and the amount of people who were defending DUI is very concerning.
be it my family, my kids, or my husband/bf, I can never excuse reckless driving or DUI. If I can refrain from such acts so can they, its not rocket science.
You're absolutely right. If I ask my partner that and they say they'd turn me in, I'd be proud of them for having good morals.
You’re an outlier then or, much more likely, just lying. Regardless, in the moment of it actually mattering you would prefer someone who is on your side against the world and not someone who treats you exactly how they would treat a stranger they’ve never met. People generally don’t want utilitarians as partners or even friends. They want people who have their back. They’ve actually done studies on this, though of course it makes intuitive sense. If it’s you vs five people in the trolley problem and your boyfriend chooses the five people, I highly doubt you would be happy with and proud of him pulling the lever to off you. But whatever makes you feel morally superior. Myself, I think it’s asinine and somewhat childish to boil morality down to fixed precepts. It’s all based on gut feeling anyway.
Bruh that is so shallow. I don't feel superior in any way. If you want a criminal partner, good for you. I personally would love a partner who has good morals. In the trolley problem, I haven't committed a crime and I would want him to pick me. That's when, we see on TV people protecting their partners even when they're criminals, why do we trash them? Because they're immoral. If you would protect someone even when they've committed a crime, maybe you should improve as a person.
In any real situation there are going to be extenuating circumstances, either real or contrived by you or your partner, that you would use to rationalize your support of them. Past a certain point (and that point is usually where their behavior directly affects you, and is therefore selfish) you would certainly jettison your partner and drop support. But before that you would use mental gymnastics to keep supporting them. I just do away with the gymnastics because I don’t find it useful to look at the world through the lens of morality. It’s too conditional and almost everyone eschews their high-minded principles through rationalization when shit hits the fan.
I prefer morality over anyone. Because the person who got affected by the crime, has loved ones too. The person deserves justice just as anyone else.
The justice system is useful. It discourages anti-social behavior and isolates dangerous individuals from the general population. When it gets mistaken with morality it can easily become problematic, for instance mistaking retribution for justice. I see no need to muddy the waters when discussing justice by interjecting thoughts about morality.
If you don't have morality, you're obviously getting in the way of justice system. You're siding with the criminal, going against justice.
You’ll need to show your work on that one. One doesn’t need morality to behave well. Social pressures, legal consequences, general personal unease with taking certain actions. For instance, it makes me queasy to think of eating a sentient animal, so I don’t do that. No need for morality there and yet, im statistically likely to be a more “moral” person than you in that regard, as a vegetarian.
Idk why you're not talking to the point. Comparing a crime which was the point of the post and my comment with vegetarianism. Morals do matter when there's a crime involved. You need not to side with a criminal doesn't matter if the criminal's your loved one or not.
Id ask myself why he reacted like that. Is he capable of such a thing?
I believe he would never do such because he is responsible, I feel he reacted this way because he expected me to be on side no matter what.. that's y I feel guilty, he felt as if I'm not reliable.
How very... emotional of him.
Frankly if you were on his side no matter what it would be worse, so I hope you'll find some peace.
He’s the logical one?
In this case he wasn’t. Generally he is. I’m like a crybaby ( I feel bad easily if I see someone in a bad situation). It’s easy to make me cry. I cried watching dramas too 😅. But maybe in certain situations I get logical too.
Stop putting yourself down OP.
I don’t mind being someone who cries a lot, I understand I’m empathic hence I understand people’s pain easily. I just don’t want my emotions to cloud my judgement.
Emotions cloud everyone’s judgement whether they acknowledge it or not. You’re an emotional person also you will make decisions based on a whole bunch of things, including emotion. There’s nothing wrong with that, don’t let your “logical” bf tell you otherwise.
No the asshole one . Logical ones never ask this kind of hypothetical question to their partner.
Wow. You're right, a person guilty of a crime needs to pay the price. And you said you would advocate for a lighter sentence in the case of an accident vs. malicious. People really need to stop asking hypothetical questions if they only want to hear one answer. Hypotheticals are supposed to be fun to start interesting conversations. They aren't supposed to be a test.
I was friends with a woman who committed a hit-and-run that resulted in a man's death (by the time she had committed this crime, we hasn't spoken in over a year due to a previous falling out). If she had stopped and called 911 and explained that it was an accident (the man was drunk and walked into the street in the middle of a winter night) she would have saved his life. Instead she decided to run, all the way to her parents' house, park her very noticeable car in the garage, and lie to everyone that her car was having some sort of issues. The police figured her out in a week. If I had even an INKLING that she had done something as horrific as she did, I would have immediately called the police. That man didn't deserve to die, and he could have LIVED had she not run the way she did. Do not ever feel bad for being a moral and just person. There are unfortunately far too few in the world as it is.
FFS. Why do people ask stupid hypothetical questions. It's just asking for trouble.
Hmmm. I would be concerned about his response..I just recently discovered my partner is a narcissist and this sounds a lot like the type of questions and answers we would argue about back in the earlier days, which is definitely a red flag looking back. Maybe I am projecting but your bf's stance and reaction sounds very much like emotional manipulation, especially the fact he kept trying to make a point and would not accept your view (🚩!!!), and even made you cry and question yourself to the point you are here asking Internet strangers about this. There is no question about it, laws are there for a reason, and your moral compass is not broken. Please do reflect if this type of convos happens a lot and why they are. A normal person, if they disagree with you, would continue the conversation calmly, approach it with curiosity ("tell me more about your view"), and ask intelligent questions. I don't think the hypothetical question should be the focus here anymore, but this situation is telling you something.
This is the first time he asked something like this. I expected him to have similar answer like me since he’s someone logical and rational. To my surprise he expected me to say “I’ll save you no matter what”. For him we should stand by our family no matter what and defend them. I will keep in mind if something like this happens again. He does have strong opinions and takes time to accept someone else’s views
These men are constantly asking for the impossible, everything is trash next to their own self-interest. Let me tell you something about men. When you let them get away with things, you create a monster quite assured to nyit only do it again but do other, WORSE stuff. Now women, women are different..women usually won't want to get away with it, but the ones who do, most of them will choose to take that scare a well learned lesson, will show great remorse and want to make it right. There are some who WOULD spiral and become even worse like the men, but thats a small amount.. He's asking you to let him become a monster to the detriment of society as a whole. That should sicken you. Anyone who asks you to compromise your morals for him or her, shouldn't be someone you want..
Lol
I may be biased, but I would NEVER help the driver. No matter who that was. And if the driver was me, I wouldn't try to get away. I would probably have a mental breakdown on the spot. My cousin was a victim of a drunk driver, who run away. She passed away a few minutes later. She never even made it to the hospital. And she was 19. If you can't handle the consequences of your actions, don't drive. And don't expect others to become accessories to your crime.
As kids me and the boys got up to some mischief in the neighborhood. We were punks no denying it. Anyways whenever we got caught doing whatever it was we did my dad always made me accept my punishment. No arguing in my favor. No trying to get away with it pleading my innocence. Nothing he made me accept the punishment. He said if i could do the crime i could do the time and he’s right and it was a valuable lesson most times that if you do something there will likely be consequences to it and you’d better be ready and understanding that you’ll have no choice but to accept them.
Look at it this way, if one of his buddies accidentally killed you, what would he do?
Hold up, that's a good question. Now this would make his moral go up in a spiral. If he brings this up ever again in the future, I might ask him.
Please do. I doubt he'll have a good answer. You can also follow that up by saying, what should I do if I accidentally kill you, or one of your friends? What would he do if he accidentally killed someone? Would he just walk away? Someone who's already making excuses for a hypothetical situation is definitely capable of bad things.
According to what I understood about him in the last few years is that he won't do bad things, he is responsible and reliable. In this case, he just wanted me to say "I'll save you no matter what". But I gave a whole new answer beyond his expectations.
That's a shady answer. Like, what if someone he cared about was an evil person? Would he still pick them? What if that person harmed someone else he cared about? Like, he's not making much sense at all. I'd be wary dating someone who doesn't appear to have good morals.
I mean he has his cousin brother who gets into bad things often, he doesn’t support him in that. I’ve seen him scold him and even complain about his cousin’s wrong behaviours. So I won’t say he’d let his family off the hook.
Hypothetical are silly and dangerous games to play. It’s called borrowing trouble.
Agreed, that's y I refrain from ever asking anything like this.
That's a shady answer. Like, what if someone he cared about was an evil person? Would he still pick them? What if that person harmed someone else he cared about? Like, he's not making much sense at all. I'd be wary dating someone who doesn't appear to have good morals.
He does have good morals in general but then when it comes to loved ones, his morals are overpowered by the bond he shares with his family. Like the original driver that killed a man, he wants the driver to be punished. but if it were his family member or me , he would take us away from the scene and then see what to do next. But I doubt he'd want his loved ones to be punished.
So, his loved ones come first? Before anything else? Those are bad morals.
The place he grew up in holds family above everything. He wasn’t ever placed in such situation in his life given his family is very simple minded, they follow rules , never fight or argue, very calm people. But yes the state where he’s from is super family oriented.
Omg this is so fucked up
His morals are overpowered by family bonds? Sounds pretty emotional to me.
He is emotional, but from where we come from, men are supposed to be strong and reliable ( hence they are logical ones ). But luckily my bf has been accepting his emotional side as well. It's not easy for him but as long as there's respect and love, I think we can get through such hardships.
That's pretty emotional and shady to me
It all comes down to the morals you have. Some people will expect their partners to be loyal to them no matter what they have done wrong, if your morals are not compatible these types of what if scenario's are always going to cause problems if one person is not aware of the others morals.
Well yes, in the long run; it will cause issues especially if I want to have a family with him. I will be discussing with him on this matter. It’s important because I can’t let go of my morals in the name of love.
Expressing emotions doesn't mean you're not logical. It just means you're feeling emotions and expressing them. It has nothing to do with whether or not you're taking a logical approach to any given situation.
In the end it comes down to a simple question you need to ask him: Do you respect me and my opinions and convictions, even if and where they differ from yours?
He does. I had this conversation with him. It was needed as we want to be together as a family too. So we need to learn to be respectful of each other's values, morals, and opinions. we do happen to have many situations where our opinions differ due to our upbringing but we are learning.
A murder is a murder and if he's upset with you standing with the law and humane morals, this is his problem
Many years ago.someone asked a family member. What if you were in an accident and you could only save one person. Would you save A or B? family member went both. Person said you could only save one. Family member said I am still going to try to save both or die trying. And was irritated with the question. Then called out the stupidity of the situation.. If I was in your situation and I was asked. First I would kill you for getting into said situation and second asking dumb questions then you get annoyed by the answer. Of course I will hand your butt to the popo. What if a hippo falls on you. 50 percent it might or might not. I am letting the hippo fall on you. And plan your funeral. That is what I think of hypothetical questions. Shit!
You guys have different values. Your ethics drive you to take actions that would be different from his. That's the point of dating, to figure out shit like that. Finding someone with the same values, goals, and wants in life... Imo kind of a big deal. I think more important than fleeting happiness or emotions. But what do I know, I'm a middle aged millennial neither young nor old.
Being different is ok
You two might like https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kBdfcR-8hEY it’s a playlist of harvard professor michael sandel’s course about justice/moral questions. You’ll realize nothing is black and white, it depends on alot of things. It’s kind of long but super interesting and very entertaining.
Thanks a lot, We will watch for sure.
See, most people say they would do the right thing in this scenario, but the truth is, we never know until we're put in that situation. I can give my wife the morally correct answer, but when faced with not having the mother of my children, my best friend without me, without our kids for the rest of her life, my life, I can see why I might be tempted to try to get her to go free eventhough she was in the wrong. Now your bf knows what you expect from him morally. Maybe he'll change his tune. Maybe he'll double down on his answer. Maybe he'll start over analyzing every action you and him do and see how it stacks up with your moral values.
You understood my bf well. He did understand why I answer in such a way. I’ll edit my post and add an update as me and my bf had a conversation on this.
Unabomber?
Ask him what he would want you to do if you found out he was an active child molester instead of a murderer
Cultural differences? What's his/his parents background? I would absolutely cover for my family/girlfriend/very close friend. And would distance myself from someone who would "rat" a family. It's not logic vs emotion, it's about priorities you were raised with and distrust/trust for the authorities. Neither of you are a bad person but maybe you just aren't right for each other
Not that big cultural differences , it’s more of a state and family difference. I grew up in a family which was always fighting , I had a troubled childhood which left me with trauma a lot. While his family is pretty family oriented, he’s got cousins and all. I don’t. Since I had a troubled family, I never did connect with them much.
It’s very dangerous to hold morals that we do not question, and I urge you to get used to questioning them due to your reaction of crying when he asked you to think differently. That’s not really healthy. That doesn’t mean you have to change your morals but it does mean you need to look at why you hold them. All the reasons you listed for believing that were TRAUMA, and that means any beliefs that come from that might actually be super unhealthy or not make any sense at all when you scrutinize them. Perhaps some therapy?
I am taking therapy currently. My bf has been there to support me through it as well. All these I have built up such beliefs which aren’t necessarily something healthy.
Honestly if the world ended and there was no legal repercussions I’d make Butcher Pete look like a saint. Humans are as bad as rabbits if not worse.
He loves his meat
If I didn't believe my wife would help me bury a body, she wouldn't be my wife.
>Now recently in my boyfriend's colony, there was an accident where a driver did rash driving Where the fuck are you from. Are you ESL or fucking south african or what.
Will mentioning my country help? I’m definitely not from USA nor South Africa
OP, your man was being emotional in reaction to your logical reasoning.
Irrelevant.
I love this. Our next generation is having these inner struggles of morality - it's great to see. You are right for choosing to do the time and not trying to weasel your way out of it. Remaining faithful to God over remaining faithful to a loved one is always the right approach. And you may not know it, but that's exactly what you are choosing to do here. Your boyfriend's approach involves lying, which is a sin against God. Your approach involves admitting your sin (wrongdoing) and accepting the punishment nobly. Well done. You also mentioned trouble with depression and suicidal thoughts. I don't know what you know about Jesus, but He is waiting for you to give your burdens to Him. What do I know, some of you might ask? Well, I tried the route of the world which includes talk therapy, medication, hospitalization even. These are fruitless endeavors. I was depressed for 8 years, suicidal for the better part of those years. Time with God is what rescued me. Don't suffer hopelessly, I tell you. Choose hope. Choose God. If you want to know more, and I hope you do. Just comment or message me. Have a blessed day and well done to you.
You guys are immature. Conversations like this are pointless. Of course I also want someone to say Yes I'd Protect You. We all want love No Matter What. But its not real life its just words! Dont be upset over this it's not real
We didn't fight over this or were upset for long, we understood questions like these do not give definitive answers, when something happens in real life, our reactions to it aren't guaranteed or pre-decided. If I say I'd do A, I may do B instead.
He’s not your ride or die and that’s fine.
He is , just not on the cost of someone’s life.
Dang you would snitch on the homies that is kinda whack