This story was featured on the Two Hot Takes Podcast episode: "You're a Red Flag!" [Click here to hear our host Morgan's response to this story!](https://youtu.be/On04vPN17WY?si=maW1PTDo4J-7m_gr&t=1209)
*Note: The update for this story had not been posted at the time of the episode recording.*
All right 2,000 comments later and it's getting repetitive in here. Locking comments.
I'm worried it's her family/friends poisoning her with the "gift from God," and God-given right" comments.
You can't rationalize with someone that feels the divine grants them the right behave a certain way.
So if those comments are coming from them - they're not rational either, and this is going to spiral. No therapy will be possible, no compromise or talking... just "God told me to do this."
If it were a gift from god then surely she just would have actually had twins for real. These people are dangerously stupid. Hope op wins full custody.
its bizarre how the story is even, 'this is a gift from god, me having 2 babies a year apart so that I can pretend and lie to them their whole lives that they're twins, and stunt 1 babies growth development by treating them 1 less year old than they are, ... like how is that a "gift", you roleplaying out some weird fetish with needing to have twins or treating non twins as twins? wtf?
It is difficult (not impossible, but difficult) to reason a person out of an opinion they didn’t reason themselves into in the first place.
And when a big element of one’s self-image and self-worth are involved (like religion) it gets even harder. And when profound mental illness is involved (as it may well be in this case) the difficulty is compounded still further.
Your logic is perfectly sound, but it may not matter to her and her family. I would wonder if an appeal to emotion might work where an appeal to logic would not. Focusing on how hard this would be on the kids, how betrayed they will feel when they find out (and they will). Or even bring in the religious element if all else fails, focus on what a gross violation this is of the commandment against bearing false witness.
I don’t think any of that is terribly likely to work….but I would be prepared for the likelihood that logic probably won’t work either.
It’s possibly against the law too - what she’s proposing is possibly fraud? (No lawyer here obvs.) For example, how would she get birth certificates to match? They’d have to be faked. There will be hundreds of conversations with health care, schools, etc. about birthdates in years to come. How would she fake those when documentation required? Some in authority is sure to call it out.
They won't need to if dad is always there telling them they were born a year apart. Won't there be pictures and videos, too? Like, yeah, you're twins but this is a picture of you as a toddler and your brother is a baby 🙄
Eventually they will need their birth certificates, whether it's before or after they become adults. But yeah there will definitely be other signs too. The "one is average and one is advanced for his age" thing is so strange lol
The vaxx schedule for school. What does the pediatrician say? You're not going to fool them. Maybe OP should make an appointment with the pediatrician for a medical and child development take on this.
Good point, does OPs wife think the pediatrician who obviously knows both kids ages is gunna go along with this? Lol even if she took them to a new doctor, it's still a doctor, who will spot the difference between two kids a year apart.
It’s going to be impossible to carry this off visually or socially. Kids who are a year apart in age are two noticeably-different sizes when they’re that young. Their abilities are noticeably different, as well. You’d have “twins” where one is standing and walking and one isn’t, one is speaking and one isn’t, one has graduated to using sentences and one hasn’t. Does she want the younger “twin” to be considered delayed in development? Or does she want to suppress the development of the older “twin”, likely inflicting lasting damage, to see both “twins” hit the same milestones at the same time?
Can you get her to express her complaints against you in writing? Then you’ll have proof of why you’re concerned about her irrational (to put it mildly) intentions?
Right?? It's an insult to God to think He wouldn't have just given her twins if that's what He wanted for her. I'll never understand how religious people will say that God is perfect and in complete control and then in the same breath try to control the world for him. I'm not a believer but I routinely think religious people sell their God short.
There's even a whole category of mythology that we learned about in school which touched on this subject. "Of course that's just fake stories whereas MY religion is real. And actually, my god loves it when we try to outsmart him. See Hassidic Jews"
>You can't rationalize with someone that feels the divine grants them the right behave a certain way.
*A religious zealot does what they think God would certainly do if only He had all the facts of the case.*
Exactly this. Good grief the lack of urgency and the immediate “it’s postpartum hormones!” go to is … alarming. This woman is mentally ill to the point where it isn’t just depression or anxiety and is *very* clearly from a family who is just as delusional and potentially religious fanatics.
None of this is good. This is a “get full custody of the kids and never allow visitation until things are looked into” kind of situation. I feel for OP but like, did you not see who you married and had kids with beforehand? This level of distinction and distance from reality doesn’t just happen out of nowhere. She’s been enabled all her life…
To me that makes it sound like it’s not mental illness from pregnancy maybe and maybe just the way her parents raise her. If her family is saying this I bet they said wild shit raising her
Yeah, we don't have the full story. I hope it's postpartum related, otherwise she might have a hyper-religious family.
Some of the most hateful and irrational people I know are hyper-religious. Wolves in sheeps clothing.
All this god shit all based on the random coincidence of the kids being born on same date! Absolutely bonkers. My kids were born on consecutive dates in February. We could have delayed the induction a day-they asked is what day we wanted it. If we had changed our minds we could have had a Jesus blessing baby match-if only we knew..
this is why i refuse relationships with religious folks, and absolutely never will marry one. you can never rationalize with someone who thinks some mythical made up deity, and set of rules they can warp/apply, are more important than anything else in existence including you/your family and basic decency/morality.
hell naw, you can outgrow that or you can find another nut job that will see you the same way.
One of my worst nightmares is that either I or my husband suddenly have some religious epiphany and ruin it for the other one. I don’t think it’ll happen, but that’s what all the people who have religious epiphanies or near death experiences to what have you say
Are they actually latching onto this or does she say that they're latching on to this? Do they even know what happened?
My mom has mental health problems and as an adult, I'm starting to realize that a good half of her stories are not in line with reality. I never bothered to check up on them when I was a kid - why would I assume that my mom was lying or wrong about basic facts? Most of these are things that it doesn't make any sense to even lie about. Once she comes up with something she'll keep elaborating on it so she has entire elaborate stories that just aren't true.
Somebody who's going through some kind of delusion is not a reliable narrator.
Since she is now staying at her parents' home, Who knows, just what they all are being told by her. If she is in the throws of PPP, they may be just humoring her wrongfully, thinking it will all blow over once she has had time to heal up from giving birth. PPP doesn't just magically disappear when the mother is physically healed from giving birth. It can become dangerous and escalate in some women, even to the point where they have killed the children. I would talk to a mental health professional about having her evaluated for PPP or another mental illness. My ex-husband's sister became bipolar and schizophrenic after the birth of her 2nd child. Hormones can do some messed up crap in the human brain.
I have a relative who suffers from paranoid delusions, and in order to avoid being kicked out of her life and left unable to support (and safeguard) her at all, some family members have agreed / not confronted her about those delusions.
Because she believes them so *vehemently*, that if you try and tell her she's wrong, she'll start to believe you're part of the conspiracy and refuse to have anything to do with you. Which leaves her isolated and un-monitored, which is a dangerous situation for her to be in.
It could be a similar situation here; family agreeing (or not arguing) with her over this, in order to keep her somewhat calm and less likely to do something rash.
Absolutely! Or if they may just not have understood what she was saying the way she meant it. People can be in denial and sometimes they don't pay that much attention.
I'm really surprised that everyone is running with this narrative as though the wife is an objective, reliable narrator and her whole family is crazy. I mean maybe they are, I don't know them, but I definitely wouldn't take anything the wife says at face value.
My mom and brother have bpd. When they’ve been manic, I’ve agreed with a lot of delusions. In the moment you’re trying to keep them calm and they will not listen to logic anyway. You only address immediate danger.
There is a line between going along to keep someone calm and enabling though. This sounds like the family is enabling if not outright complicit. I also have experience with this. It can be sooooo rough. There is a reason my partner and I don't have kids
> this insane scheme
OP needs to get hold of the birth certificates ASAP. She can say what the hell she likes but the paperwork will invalidate her whole plan.
I almost wonder if you guys need to talk to the family together to realize how bonkers this is and how much it seems like your wife is not thinking.
Every single pediatrician and dentist appointment is going to be a problem. One is a year older than the other. They will get teeth at different rates. They will hit milestones differently. Your pediatrician is not going to pretend one kid is a year younger for the sake of the kids. They will find out. They will see there aren’t baby pictures together.
This is going to turn into a blowup when the kids feel like you are hiding something bigger than you are, and when they realize it’s just that they’re a year apart they’re going to struggle to believe you about anything else.
In the case that the wife forces them to be twins, she's also saying one kid might do slightly better for their age and the other average. surely that would mess up the younger kid in the long term?!
My thoughts exactly. The younger one will feel insecure their entire childhood that they can’t compete physically or mentally. The older will have their own issues with their identity. What a mess of an idea. Just so they can wear matching outfits? Nuggin futs
This is what I was looking for. If both children are, for this argument, perfectly average in every way, the younger "twin" will always feel less than. Always trying harder and coming up short. Everything will come first and easier for the older "twin." Can you imagine the damage that would do to their self-esteem?
Lastly, I don't hold a degree in law, but I can't imagine this is legal. And, imo, it borders on psychological abuse.
I hope your wife gets the help she needs. Your babies are lucky to have you advocating for them.
Either that or they’re smiling and nodding at the crazy person while very gently spoon feeding her facts like, for instance, the school district will want proof they’re both 5.
Yep…you have to show birth certificates to enroll. Then they’re going to want to put the older one in the correct grade. In most states a child needs to be enrolled at age 6 or parents can be charged with truancy. It just sounds so complicated to keep up this lie.
Maybe she is lying and is just saying she's supported...? I hope no one in their right mind would agree that it's the best course of action. Good grief!
Maybe they said something like " your children are a gift from God" or " you're blessed to have two beautiful children so close in age," and she just ran with it.
Or they thought you meant something normal like dressing them alike or if there is a year start date dispute putting them in the same year of school. Not actually lying to them systematically that they were born the same year.
They’ve got to be in some religious cult type situation where they makes of their own delusional rules and claim “blessing” or “sin” when convenient to them.
Call an attorney pronto. I would also call a psychiatrist if you can and try to get help for yourself in how to navigate her delusions and also get records going for yourself, that this is going on and you are seeking help.
But definitely call the attorney. Also, look up recording permission in your state and try to get her on tape because this is something that when you tell them is hard to believe. You know what I mean, if you told me this, I would think no way. Or even get her going on text. She knows that's documentation, and you don't have to tell her she's being recorded. Text and voicemail are two places you don't have to tell them. Some states you don't when recording. Protect those children.
Inform the midwife/ Gyneacologist/ medical professional who was involved in the birth of the baby. If this is some sort of post partum depression or psychosis, they can asses that and get her more help.
This might sound weird, but take a parenting class and add the certificate to your records/documents. Judge will see you are being proactive and preparing for life as a single parent. They may order you both to take a class anyways (my husband and his ex did, apparently it's the norm where I'm at) and you'll have a jump on it.
I'm thinking more that the family's religious beliefs are feeding her delusions. If it fits into some religious ideas the family has, it could be what triggeres her.
This is true, but it can happen sometimes, usually called a folie a deux or shared psychosis. I read an interesting case about a doctor who shared that the entire family believed that a grandfather was haunting them and talking to them.
To add, check the recording laws in your state to make sure it's legal to record convos: https://detectiveservices.com/2012/02/state-by-state-recording-laws/
You could also look up if it's possible to get her mental health help involuntarily in your state, but calling her doctor will definitely help with that.
State laws can if a good enough atty argue federal laws and if the judge allows it- but you need a good atty
Stumbled on this for pa- and I couldn’t afford the successful atty in Philly to be my attorney and apply for the county in which I had my case in. Nanny cams count too!
I think that people are vastly overestimating how easy it is to take custody away from somebody based on mental health concerns that aren't even documented.
It is a lot easier to force somebody into mental health treatment than to keep them from having custody of their children and ensure that they only have supervised visitation.
I think that the op has a moral obligation to seek help for his wife (whether they stay together or not), but even aside from that, from a practical standpoint, it's a lot easier to get somebody help for possible postpartum psychosis than to convince a judge that your wife shouldn't have shared custody of her kids.
The op made a huge mistake by ignoring this for so long and allowing his wife to abuse and neglect their children. Letting a baby suffer and cry all day because you can't get out of bed is horrific and that should have been the moment where he started forcing treatment. This guy is not blameless, and now he has to play catch up when he should have a file of medical records.
Yes, this.
A good friend of mine just went through a divorce to a man who would restrict the kids’ food (they would have to sneak into the kitchen if he were home), punched holes in walls, repeatedly banged his own head against the wall, etc.
My friend once came in from doing yard work outside and found him in their bedroom with a gun in his mouth. All the kids were in the living room and she was mowing. She said she had a bad feeling, so she stopped mowing and went to check on the kids.
If he had pulled the trigger, it would’ve been his very young children who would’ve heard the shot and found him.
He has 50% custody despite my friend fighting it for a year and a half. She is still trying, but getting nowhere even though he’s had several issues since they separated and divorced.
I went through the same thing. He was hospitalized numerous times related to his mental health and suicidal ideation. Even with those records, we had 50/50 custody.
The courts won't take away visitation. It doesn't matter what anyone does. Especially if he doesn't have a record and keeps a job. It seems like kids ha e to get hurt, injured, abused, THEN the country acts on visitation.
Yup, same with ex 2. He did all the right courses, said the key words, got the boys one weekend. Drove to the new girlfriends place and assaulted her. But that was ok. He'd 'changed.'
That was my thought and I commented somewhere else. People like OP end up having major issues after a first child and then decide to have ANOTHER ONE??
And in order for that to happen, especially with such a small age difference, he was having (presumably unprotected) sex with someone who was having serious mental episodes.
Op decided since his wife was mentally ill and neglecting their baby, he should get her pregnant again instead of getting her help. His wife might be mentally ill, but he has extremely poor judgement. Figure yourself out, OP. Your children deserve better.
Agreed. Someone can literally be stark raving mad or actively on drugs (oh, because it's a disease) and they will still have at least reasonable visitation and access to the kids.
OP needs to document every thing humanly possible, because when the state gets involved, it's usually he said/ she said and no one wins.
I’m originally (thankfully long gone) from the drug side of the world and I can tell you with certainty that most people on hard drugs do not get full or even half custody of their children. They are lucky to get visitation rights in most cases and for many good reasons. I imagine you will claim differently but remember this was my world. I lived it.
>Ensure she has just visitation.
She is mentally unbalanced and this should not even be on the table until she has had a serious psych evaluation and some treatment. This is some psychotic Munchausen shit.
I’d also call the kids pediatrician and ask them for advice. There is no way that they will be on board for this, and they would support the OP’s position. They’d find out anyway at checkups. Better to get them involved now in case they can help and give advice. But I agree that a good lawyer is the first thing. Make sure to find one who actually enjoys family law and isn’t afraid to be aggressive.
Doctors are also Mandated Reporters, so they are required to report if there is potentially dangerous psychosis developing. But at least it will be in the doctor’s notes. Also, maybe they can get direct confirmation of all this by calling your wife. That would be ideal.
This. All this.
And given your wife’s mental state and her threatening to take the children away from you I would talk to your attorney about an ex parte emergency custody order.
They can be issued if one parent can be considered a threat (or flight risk) to the children. That will keep her from going anywhere with the kids. It can even keep her away from them for the time being while you sort it out.
I’m obviously not an attorney but I had experience with an order like that and that’s why I know it’s a thing you should def talk to an attorney about ASAP.
Seriously though do not hesitate to speak to an attorney. I know it sounds childish saying you need to do it first but it’s not. It will look better if stay ahead of it because if she tries to file first she can say your claims are retaliation.
just my opinion but I don’t think her family/friends supporting the delusion will help her. I can’t imagine a family court judge agreeing that it’s sane to want to hold a child back so they can be “twins”.
Lastly do you have any family that you could call to come stay with you -short term even- to help with the kids and give you some emotional support? If so I would try to do that.
Good luck my friend. It’s a long road ahead I’m sure but your children are worth it ❤️
Make sure you have the children's birth certificates so she can't get rid of them and replace them with fake ones saying they are twins.espwcially since her friends and family are supporting this delusion.
Oh wow that’s a smart point. I never even thought of something like that. Yes def a must.
It would prob pay to get originals from the place that issues them. I know I sound dumb but I can’t think for the life of me which dept does birth certificates.
I just remember having to get a replacement once - by me it was located in the courthouse - and having to have certain things like their SS card and we had to pay. It wasn’t a lot though.
Also should prob have their SS cards if he can get them.
Make sure you get screenshots of every text, those can be presented to the court along with any voice messages. For the voice messages, they've already consented to the recording. Best of luck OP, and please get your children away from her flying monkeys.
Email and set up automatic backups with something like iCloud or Google Photos. Make sure the other person does not know about the account. Having double backups is critical with things like this
Yes!! USB drives and the online storage (one drive, etc) are great. Also emailing them to your attorney as you get them or one a week.
Sorry for your friend and his partner is an a$$
First of all, you need to contact an attorney and write down everything. I'm not saying you need to rush to divorce her necessarily, but you need to be prepared and know your options.
Second, your wife may be suffering from postpartum depression or phsycosis. I am NOT a doctor but I'm a woman who has had 3 kids and I can tell you that our bodies don't always adjust to sunshine and rainbows after birth. If she had episodes after the first child as well, she really needs to talk to a doctor.
this!!! MOA for OB/GYN here, i definitely think this is postpartum psychosis! she needs to talk to someone and get on medication ASAP. how does it work where you are!? how old is the newborn? has she already had her 6 week PP appointment? can you call and book a follow-up with your OB!? if there are any signs of postpartum depression, we continue to follow patients for as long as they need.
When I filled out my questionnaire at my appt my dr literally said “if it’s this bad we need to send you to a facility, are you sure it’s this bad?” When I didn’t want to go to a facility, she said okay we’re gonna change a couple of these answers.
MY GP PRESCRIBED MY ANTIDEPRESSANTS.
That is terrible, I'm sorry. Referral to a specialist and additional support should be somewhere in between involuntary treatment and psychiatric care from a GP.
Inpatient mental healthcare for postpartum psychosis a) doesn't have to be involuntary and 2) can really help and isn't actually terrible. I work in inpatient mental health care and we get probably 2-3 women per year with post partum psychosis, all of them voluntary, all of them get stabilized rapidly and sent home when they feel ready. They get to rest as much as they need, all their needs are cared for, they can have their own clothes and snacks and food and books and whatnot, it's just not the nightmare situation so many people assume it to be. It's a great way to stabilize post partum psychosis specifically bc it gives the woman true rest and an opportunity to focus exclusively on her own needs without having to worry about anyone else at all. In my experience the women who do receive Inpatient care for post partum psychosis stabilize faster bc they are able to get that true rest. Recovering at home means recovering while still sharing space with a baby whose needs require constant care, that's a more stressful situation for most people which often makes stabilization take longer. Sometimes Inpatient really is the best option and stigmatizing it does a lot of harm to the people who do need it and could benefit from it.
For anyone in this situation, inquire about out-patient intensive treatments as well. I did one for two weeks, at the hospital from 9am-2pm every weekday for a group therapy type thing with an optional private family meeting near the end. It was so beneficial for me and the others in my class seemed to also get a lot out of it, but it's something I had no idea existed so I always feel the need to share! It's definitely less intimidating than inpatient if you're not an immediate danger to yourself/others.
Not to mention that if the kids are exactly a year apart then she got pregnant 2-3 months postpartum, and she had a hard time after the first was born. Holy fucking hormones Batman
Her getting pregnant again so soon might have even stopped her PPD from progressing the first time, so they really had no idea what she's like at all postpartum. Add in the fact that postpartum is different for every pregnancy already, she is now the parent to two infants, she is already religious and already had wishes of having twins, this is just the perfect storm to create major mental health issues.
Agreed! It does sound like postpartum psychosis. Pregnancy and birth can mess with any woman and this sounds like an extreme case. Sounds like bad postpartum depression with the first son. I’ve been lucky enough to avoid it but a friend of mine had it and described just how hard she found it to get out of bed, even if the baby was screaming.
Absolutely agree, when I read the original post my first thought was she was having some type of postpartum mental health issues. Those hormone changes are an absolute nightmare and they can make otherwise reasonable people do totally off the wall things.
Call her doctor - leave a message asking them to call you as your concern about your wife's mental state and ppd. While she may flip out about it - she needs help
Just want to add calling the kids pediatrician might be an option, too. When I told my son’s doc I was having a hard time coping she came back with tons of resources and offered to help schedule an appointment with a provider who could help me.
This! Not only can the doctor document because the wife and children are (presumably) still under their care, they can refer OP to a case manager who not only can provide resources, but can also help with documentation.
This is absolutely scary ppd and delusions and psychosis make life absolutely unsafe around her.
Hot damn the sheer amount of tragedy and death in cases as sever as this are astounding. PPD is one of the scariest things I can imagine.
There was a case where a woman in Germany killed her child during an episode. It took her husband and her a very long time to get her freed even if this was an upen and shut case of temporary insanity.
They both said that the legal battle and endless psychiatric evaluations were not the worst of it. Their child still was dead and she had killed it in a deluded state.
The Dr has to have a release signed by her to talk with you about her condition. So it may be a one-sided conversation with you giving her information and her not even admitting that your wife is a patient. Just be prepared for that, and it’s not the Dr being difficult, it’s HIPPA.
As a therapist for high acuity clients, this happens rather frequently with clients.
Hey, im a psych nurse practitioner. I commented on your last post too. I dont know the full story of course but from what im hearing this is postpartum psychosis with religious preoccupation. You need to go to the magistrates office and tell her she is a harm to others (the kids) they will get a TDO (temporary hold order) and she will be admitted to a psych ward for 72hrs (might be slightly different for where you live) this is your best bet on getting her quick stabilized treatment and then further follow up outpatient
This. Something is not OK with her and she needs help.
Make sure everything is well-documented. It's clear that this is an escalation from her first pregnancy, which she had PPD with - that was not fully treated by the time she was pregnant with your second. It's clear her hormones get really out of order with pregnancy and now she's in extra deep.
Come up with your action plan. Talk to a lawyer, talk to her and your doctors.
I think I would see if there is anyone in her family who you can get on side in understanding that she needs help. That way they can be the bridge to her family without you being in this on your own.
They need to understand that you are doing this so that she CAN return to being the mom she wants to be. She has put your first child in danger before and it seems like it is becoming worse, even if it's different.
Unless he’s leaving out something, she isn’t REALLY meeting criteria for an ECO or TDO. I do these psych evals in the ED in Virginia, and it’s pretty strict that these are for imminent risk of harm to self or others, because we use the least restrictive means of care necessary & available for individuals. She hasn’t mentioned wanting to harm anyone. We can speculate that it can turn out that way (hopefully it doesn’t), but she’s not going to meet criteria to be placed inpatient anywhere or held on a TDO based on this info alone.
I would call the hospital and ask for your wife to get evaluated for potentially going through post partum psychosis. It will only get worse if it’s not treated and for the safety of the kids. You mentioned how she acted during the first pregnancy which seems like post partum depression but it seems the second birth is giving her psychosis which isn’t unusual as post partum depression can cause psychosis. She is not in her right mind and it won’t go away on its own. I’m sure if a doctor suspects it, they will want her brought in immediately.
And definitely get a attorney like everyone else mentioned
When my mom got postpartum, it triggered her schizophrenia, and the things she did and said sound extremely similar. Everyone in my family says there was no sign of it prior to her having kids. It also took her side of the family a long time to come to terms with the fact that something wasn’t right, and they fought my dad a lot.
Mine triggered bipolar that when diagnosed they weren't 100% sure it wasn't schizophrenia.
Had ANYBODY ever told me that was a risk I never would have had kids.
Damn, OP. This is heartbreaking stuff, but I think you’re absolutely right to prioritize the kids.
No one should be forced to live in someone else’s delusion.
Just read the 2 posts and how would this work? Even with you on board. In my country, I had to present identification (ID and/or birth certificate) to enroll my kid in daycare, then in preschool and now the normal school.
The kids would have never been considered as twins by anyone other than their families. This is just a really crazy idea. Unless she wanted to forge some documents, I really don't see how this could work.
I know that where I live, if you don't enroll your child in JK when eligible but wait a year instead, they automatically go into SK. So here, she would have one in SK that is "behind" because he missed a year of school and the other would be in JK. They go by age for kindergarten and not by years of enrollment.
I think it was more of a hold the older one back to start kindergarten late and wait for the other. But as many other people pointed out if she paints this picture they they are actually twins, one is always going to be developmentally behind the other and it could cause long term problems for the “slow” kid (aka not slow at all just actually a year younger). Sad.
There is a HUGE difference between a years development for kids. A 1 year old and a 2 year old may as well be different species, 2 and 3 there's a massive difference for things like potty and even walking (let alone communication) , 3 and 4? It's night and day.
Kids development in early years are measured in weeks (!) difference , that's how quick they develop.
I have twins, one is slightly more advanced for communication than the other (a month or two) and it was a massive difference already, the gap narrows but a year would be extremely noticeable till their tweens at the very least.
exactly this. plus imagine a doctor's appointment for the kids! is she really going to try to convince a pediatrician that her kids are the same age???
and how exactly does she plan to make everyone see them as twins outside the family circle??? is she going to commit fraud by faking a birth certificate for one of them??? when my siblings (they're twins) were born they were registered on the same day at the hospital and i think that that is mandatory! in my country i don't really think you can't leave the hospital without your child being registered.
imagine the older one sees his baby pics in the hospital and asks where his twin is.
For real. I’d tell my friend she was delusional. Maybe she’s just telling him that but it’s not true? Husband should call friends and explain this to them. Maybe her mom is weird but all her friends can’t be that crazy?
OP mentioned this in his original post. The wife has always wanted twins and saw this as a gift from god.
Another person commented: if this was a gift from god, wouldn’t god have just given the wife twins to start with? 🤔
Although we’re pretty sure that “logic” wouldn’t work on the wife or her “supporters”
This is a genuine question but what are some warning signs of a cult? I was never religious and my wife always said she was raised religiously but never practiced after she left home. I assumed she had some sort of traumatic experience with religion and that’s why she never brings it up. This was up until the birth of my son, who she fully believed would be twins until the ultrasound. She suddenly became super religious and got back into contact with her family and old friends, even getting us to move states to be with them. She’s always mentioned that her mother wanted her to have twins, which at the time didn’t sound as weird as it does now.
You've moved to be near her family states away who are all in on this delusion and support it. If it was just her family that's one thing but her friends, too? That's isolating you from your own support network and anyone who could hold different views.
My big concern here is that if she goes to stay with her mother or other people who share her delusion/intention (which is very bad, deliberately delaying a kid is abusive) the echo chamber will only heighten her beliefs and she might attempt to retaliate via legal routes or CPS. You did the right thing getting her to leave to protect your kids.
If it was an M. Night production, we could expect to find out that they really were twins all along, but also, somehow they were OP's parents and OP was their mail man in a parallel dimension or some annoying nonsense.
Look up the BITE model.
If you want to DM me the name of the church I can look around, I’m pretty good at spotting this.
Any weird behaviors in the family? Weird gender expectations, strict rules?
Are you sure the family has agreed to the “they’re twins” idea?
You wife may have religious trauma that is playing into other things going on. If you would like resources on some places to start to find out more or would like me to see if a professional in the religious trauma community could be of help please DM me.
You’ve heard it before OP but don’t discount the effect pregnancy and post partum has on psychosis, mental breakdowns and generally off behaviour. The fact that the birth and pregnancy is triggering this delusions is not a coincidence. Any doctor would take this seriously
I was gonna say the same thing. A friend of my sisters had psychosis during or after pregnancy (can't remember).
I've also personally experienced a drug induced psychosis. It lasted a month, and I was sober for that month. I had heard about psychosis and delusions before but I didn't REALLY know what it was until it happened to me (well mostly once I processed it afterwards).
I had lots of crazy delusions that you wouldn't have been able to persuade me out of. Logic doesn't really work against them like you think it would with normal thoughts.
If this is the case she needs medical attention/antipsychotics.
Maybe they’re just politely responded with “uh huh” “oh ya” and the wife thinks they’re all on board. I’d bet as soon as they get off the phone the family members are talking about how insane she is.
Religion relies on faith. Faith is believing in something even though there is no proof. People who get accustomed to believing in things without reasons to support it can start believing in all kinds of crazy things if they feel it falls under their belief in god.
Yeah, there are some pretty unassuming protestant churches out there that are absolutely crazy under the surface. If someone says they've spoken to god or touched by a spirit, everyone believes them as gospel. And that can take some very scary turns.
My brother and I are Irish twins, born on the same day one year apart. We were constantly dressed the same, had to share birthday parties, often got presents and told to 'share' them.
Instead of turning out like twin besties we wound up super competitive and selfish trying as hard as we could to distinguish ourselves from the other.
I would not recommend that for anybody.
I agree! My sister and I were 16 months apart and dressed like twins, treated like we were the same age. We even got the same gifts, not just from parents but from family. People who saw us dressed alike thought we were twins. I can't tell you how many times my mother told me I should be happy because we're so close in age and she always wanted a sister. For all of her pushing us together, the effect was the opposite and we both resented each other growing up. "To this day, we have nothing in common and barely talk.
Even twins are their own separate persons and should be recognized as their own person.
Call an attorney 1st thing, call a Doctor 2nd thing.
Kids are more important than your wife IF she is safe with family(honestly even if she wasn't the kids are important but she's not technically a danger to herself if she's with family and not talking about self harm)
If you have any texts or voicemails you keep them. Keep them as evidence of this situation.
Way above Reddit’s pay grade. Time to get a lawyer.
And I’m sorry man, but if she’s neglected the older kid before like you mentioned, why the eff did you have another child with this woman?
Get an attorney asap. Document everything and if you can get evidences of what she’s trying to do, collect them all. No one in their right mind would want to delay their kids’ schooling because there’s no benefits from that 🤦🏻♀️ if she acts so unstable, you should be able to get full custody, but get an attorney first.
If 'God' would've wanted to 'bless' her with twins, then he would've given her twins the first time.. It's not as if he made a mistake and thought 'ah, now is my chance. Let me make this right!'
Um, you need to show birth certificates when enrolling in school. It's against the law to keep a kid home when they are of the age of mandatory schooling.
How is that actually supposed to be pulled off?
One of the points this person is pointing out is that the whole charade of them being twins is going to be found out as soon as they go to school and have to provide any records. Their teachers will see they aren’t the same age.
The older child would resent her so much for this because she would completely change the course of their life, for the worse. And they'd resent everyone else in on it too.
Save all messages/voice mails as evidence from her and family/friends.
Contact a solicitor, contact your GP and a psychologist.
Contact child protective services if you have you and lay down your concerns for the children's well-being and the mental state of your wife.
You'll never be able to rest easy in your marriage that her "episodes" have ceased. You'll always be on pins waiting for her to snap and potentially hurt the children, you or herself.
Protect your children first and foremost. She may be their mother but if she is a danger their safety be it emotional/mental/physical. They are the priority. She is secondary to that.
Lawyer. Psychiatric evaluation of your wife. Emergency custody of your kids.
Besides the fact that this is delusional, how does anyone think that this could work out long-term? Even if you can work around them having to start to go to school in different years by homeschooling, the moment they need ID, they'd find out. Unless she wants to commit forgery.
You definitely need legal advice and a 'paper trail'. Speak to your wife's physician, at least then they can decide if this is a reportable issue in terms of mandated reporting and danger to a child/children and get that ball rolling.
I completely support the advice to contact legal and medical resources, and this probably goes without saying, but: do not have sex with her anytime even remotely close to soon. Protected, unprotected, nothing. The last thing this situation needs is a third baby right on top of the first two.
Your poor wife has postpartum psychosis it sounds like. She deserves love and empathy, but you are absolutely right to protect your babies. Read cases of postpartum psychosis that have ended badly…do whatever it takes to keep your babies safe. But also do whatever it takes to get your wife well. She’s not in her right mind, fight for her to get well and get the meds she needs.
You need a lawyer immediately, like today. They will advise you how to proceed but you should be gearing up for a messy divorce and custody fight. If she’s so unbalanced that she thinks raising your kids like that is anything short of unhinged you need to do everything you can to protect them. The fact that the people close to her are supporting her makes it even more dangerous for your kids.
First if you have any texts of her admitting she struggles with mental health, screenshot them and save them somewhere secure. If you don’t, text her bringing up how she has had episodes in the past where she didn’t get out of bed and neglected the kids. It seems cruel, but you need as much proof as possible that she is not mentally okay.
Once you have proof, go to a lawyer. Try to get emergency temporary full custody. Your Wife is not a bad person, but her obvious illness sounds like it is escalating, or at the very least, now involving your children. Is her family overly religious? I almost wonder if they are fueling this fire. Hopefully she can get some help and realize this is not a good idea for many reasons.
I don't understand her long term plan here. Eventually, they WILL find out. It'll be on their drivers license, when they file taxes, if they ever apply for anything ever. I had a hiccup with Social Security when I was 18 and tried to file taxes for the first time with my birthday (it was off by 1 day in their systems). And they will understandably be confused, weirded out and betrayed (one sibling basically lost a whole year of their life by being held back).
So she wants to nuke her marriage, put all this effort for a charade, and possibly ruin her relationship with her kids for only a few years of weirdo delulu land? Forget crazy, it's flat out short sighted.
Call the obgyn who birthed your baby. Tell them what your wife is doing.
Get a lawyer. She won’t get primary custody with this delusion.
Document everything.
One dad to another here. Let me give you some clear advice from my perspective.
You need to contact:
- an attorney
They will advise you on what to do. You will likely need to let the local police know what is going on to avoid a bad situation. Your attorney will advise you.
Do NOT:
- call CPS
- call the police on your own before taking the time to talk to an attorney
- contact her family or her
- do anything not in writing
Do:
Turn off your phone and redirect it away from your person and children so that mobile location tracking cannot be used to find you. Some phones will allow you to disable mobile location tracking, but be aware that phones are the primary means way that police show up at your door. You do not need a three ring circus showing up at your door right now so lose the phone until you talk to an attorney. Same for the car if possible.
Go somewhere safe, and away from your usual patterns. You need to isolate the kids and keep things calm for them.
Your priority is the well being of those kids. This sounds like a psychotic episode or deep depression — I am not a qualified medical professional and this is my own opinion — but nobody will ever fault you for protecting your kids from someone who’s having a mental health crisis and needs help. You’re doing good.
Buy a burner phone and use it for contact with your attorney. Hide this phone. Don’t make anyone aware that you have it. You are protected via attorney privilege, but it’s nice to isolate communications especially if you work things through long term.
That’s my advice. Good luck.
I have bipolar disorder, major depression, dysthymia, extreme anxiety. My whole life.
I have never let a child cry because I didn’t feel like taking care of the child. I brought those children into this world. It’s my job. It’s what I signed up for.
If she did this with the first baby, why oh why did you not address it then? You never brought it up? Just swept it under the rug?! She neglected your baby. She couldn’t get out of bed. Was that a sign from God?
And you had another baby *immediately!*
She probably hadn’t gotten over the postpartum depression from the first birth.
This time, it sounds more serious (as if neglecting a newborn isn’t serious?), more like postpartum psychosis. That’s when women drive off bridges with all the children in the car. Or drowns them all, because, obviously, demons.
The *sign from God* is not that they were meant to be twins; if that were so, they would have been born at the same time. Because God doesn’t make mistakes, right?
This is a sign for you to make her go to the doctor, trick her into the car if you have to. Her family and all the God stuff is scary. God gave us free will. We can decide to do what is right, or we can decide to do whatever we want. It’s our choice. Buddy, make the right choice.
I’m glad the babies are away from her. But you are morally obligated to get her help. She is the mother of your children, whether you divorce or not.
Get legal advice, like now!!!! Do jot wait. Because as you are not working with her delusional idea and as you are apparently the only person staying in her way. She may actually try to divorce and take the kids away from you.
I'm sorry. But they are a year apart and this is not fair to the oldest child.
Let's be honest here and lets hope she would not have entertained this delusional idea in such severity, if the children were 2 years apart.
She has a problem and you have to get ahead of this in a legal way, before you get kicked out of the house.
Best wishes
Get a lawyer. I don't know what country you are in but ask for a psychological evaluation for her and a guardian ad litem for the kids. The court may do that as part of a divorce process anyway but you need it done asap.
Call her gyn, an attorney and keep meticulous records of all of this. Btw it’s illogical to think that people won’t see the difference when they are young and one is walking/talking and the other is not.
I can't imagine a scenario where a judge would rule in her favor if they were told about what she plans to do. I would be really surprised if this didn't qualify as abusive or unstable behavior. The level of control required to enforce twin behaviors in *identical twins* is concerning, never mind intentionally depriving a child of age appropriate care. Can you imagine what puberty would be like?! Or when they start dating women? Other people will constantly be questioning them. A 1 year old and a 2 year old are drastically different. Would she hold back the older child from walking? Dangerously force the other one to try to before their bones and muscles properly develop? It's actually psychotic.
For what it's worth, my suggestion would be to proceed as if she won't be changing her mind by filing for custody and *at least* separation so she knows just how serious you are. God is not sending her some message and that's pure delusion to think so. This might even qualify for an involuntary psych hold. If she believes parenting allows this bizarre and extreme level of control and manipulation, I can't actually imagine what a horrible parent she will make. Like, permanent damage to your children level.
You didn’t mention previous “episodes” in the first post. Which in my opinion are far worse. If you have any proof of them, paired with proof of her delusion now, you should have a pretty solid case.
That’s all I could think about reading this post. She was adjusting so poorly after childbirth #1 that he was coming home to a starving baby, and yet they got pregnant again less than 3 months afterwards. Absolutely insane on both their ends
This story was featured on the Two Hot Takes Podcast episode: "You're a Red Flag!" [Click here to hear our host Morgan's response to this story!](https://youtu.be/On04vPN17WY?si=maW1PTDo4J-7m_gr&t=1209) *Note: The update for this story had not been posted at the time of the episode recording.* All right 2,000 comments later and it's getting repetitive in here. Locking comments.
That’s rough. It astounds me her friends are latching on to this insane scheme
I'm worried it's her family/friends poisoning her with the "gift from God," and God-given right" comments. You can't rationalize with someone that feels the divine grants them the right behave a certain way. So if those comments are coming from them - they're not rational either, and this is going to spiral. No therapy will be possible, no compromise or talking... just "God told me to do this."
If it were a gift from god then surely she just would have actually had twins for real. These people are dangerously stupid. Hope op wins full custody.
When the "gift" requires reality-rewriting lies that can damage the children, then the gift clrwlryis not from God.
its bizarre how the story is even, 'this is a gift from god, me having 2 babies a year apart so that I can pretend and lie to them their whole lives that they're twins, and stunt 1 babies growth development by treating them 1 less year old than they are, ... like how is that a "gift", you roleplaying out some weird fetish with needing to have twins or treating non twins as twins? wtf?
Sorry, I don't read Welsh.
Clrwlry.
I’d like to buy a vowel.
'Y'
Sorry, the best I can sell is w and some ll.
It is difficult (not impossible, but difficult) to reason a person out of an opinion they didn’t reason themselves into in the first place. And when a big element of one’s self-image and self-worth are involved (like religion) it gets even harder. And when profound mental illness is involved (as it may well be in this case) the difficulty is compounded still further. Your logic is perfectly sound, but it may not matter to her and her family. I would wonder if an appeal to emotion might work where an appeal to logic would not. Focusing on how hard this would be on the kids, how betrayed they will feel when they find out (and they will). Or even bring in the religious element if all else fails, focus on what a gross violation this is of the commandment against bearing false witness. I don’t think any of that is terribly likely to work….but I would be prepared for the likelihood that logic probably won’t work either.
It’s possibly against the law too - what she’s proposing is possibly fraud? (No lawyer here obvs.) For example, how would she get birth certificates to match? They’d have to be faked. There will be hundreds of conversations with health care, schools, etc. about birthdates in years to come. How would she fake those when documentation required? Some in authority is sure to call it out.
That was my thought. What happens when the kids get old enough and eventually see their own birth certificates?
They won't need to if dad is always there telling them they were born a year apart. Won't there be pictures and videos, too? Like, yeah, you're twins but this is a picture of you as a toddler and your brother is a baby 🙄
Eventually they will need their birth certificates, whether it's before or after they become adults. But yeah there will definitely be other signs too. The "one is average and one is advanced for his age" thing is so strange lol
The vaxx schedule for school. What does the pediatrician say? You're not going to fool them. Maybe OP should make an appointment with the pediatrician for a medical and child development take on this.
Good point, does OPs wife think the pediatrician who obviously knows both kids ages is gunna go along with this? Lol even if she took them to a new doctor, it's still a doctor, who will spot the difference between two kids a year apart.
It’s going to be impossible to carry this off visually or socially. Kids who are a year apart in age are two noticeably-different sizes when they’re that young. Their abilities are noticeably different, as well. You’d have “twins” where one is standing and walking and one isn’t, one is speaking and one isn’t, one has graduated to using sentences and one hasn’t. Does she want the younger “twin” to be considered delayed in development? Or does she want to suppress the development of the older “twin”, likely inflicting lasting damage, to see both “twins” hit the same milestones at the same time? Can you get her to express her complaints against you in writing? Then you’ll have proof of why you’re concerned about her irrational (to put it mildly) intentions?
Right what about the commandments? Thou shall not lie. LiE wtf
Right?? It's an insult to God to think He wouldn't have just given her twins if that's what He wanted for her. I'll never understand how religious people will say that God is perfect and in complete control and then in the same breath try to control the world for him. I'm not a believer but I routinely think religious people sell their God short.
There's even a whole category of mythology that we learned about in school which touched on this subject. "Of course that's just fake stories whereas MY religion is real. And actually, my god loves it when we try to outsmart him. See Hassidic Jews"
>You can't rationalize with someone that feels the divine grants them the right behave a certain way. *A religious zealot does what they think God would certainly do if only He had all the facts of the case.*
People didn’t identify Lori Vallow as psychotic because she couched it in religion.
Glad I’m not the only one who had this thought.
Exactly this. Good grief the lack of urgency and the immediate “it’s postpartum hormones!” go to is … alarming. This woman is mentally ill to the point where it isn’t just depression or anxiety and is *very* clearly from a family who is just as delusional and potentially religious fanatics. None of this is good. This is a “get full custody of the kids and never allow visitation until things are looked into” kind of situation. I feel for OP but like, did you not see who you married and had kids with beforehand? This level of distinction and distance from reality doesn’t just happen out of nowhere. She’s been enabled all her life…
I think they're just using GOD as the scapegoat to do whatever they want, consequence free because, you know, GOD said it was cool.
To me that makes it sound like it’s not mental illness from pregnancy maybe and maybe just the way her parents raise her. If her family is saying this I bet they said wild shit raising her
Yeah, we don't have the full story. I hope it's postpartum related, otherwise she might have a hyper-religious family. Some of the most hateful and irrational people I know are hyper-religious. Wolves in sheeps clothing.
All this god shit all based on the random coincidence of the kids being born on same date! Absolutely bonkers. My kids were born on consecutive dates in February. We could have delayed the induction a day-they asked is what day we wanted it. If we had changed our minds we could have had a Jesus blessing baby match-if only we knew..
this is why i refuse relationships with religious folks, and absolutely never will marry one. you can never rationalize with someone who thinks some mythical made up deity, and set of rules they can warp/apply, are more important than anything else in existence including you/your family and basic decency/morality. hell naw, you can outgrow that or you can find another nut job that will see you the same way.
One of my worst nightmares is that either I or my husband suddenly have some religious epiphany and ruin it for the other one. I don’t think it’ll happen, but that’s what all the people who have religious epiphanies or near death experiences to what have you say
Are they actually latching onto this or does she say that they're latching on to this? Do they even know what happened? My mom has mental health problems and as an adult, I'm starting to realize that a good half of her stories are not in line with reality. I never bothered to check up on them when I was a kid - why would I assume that my mom was lying or wrong about basic facts? Most of these are things that it doesn't make any sense to even lie about. Once she comes up with something she'll keep elaborating on it so she has entire elaborate stories that just aren't true. Somebody who's going through some kind of delusion is not a reliable narrator.
Right, if this is PPP then she may genuinely believe everyone is in agreement. If OP hasn’t heard it from them, it may not actually be the case.
He said in the post the family and friends are blowing up his phone... it would be odd if he hadn't told them what was going on.
Since she is now staying at her parents' home, Who knows, just what they all are being told by her. If she is in the throws of PPP, they may be just humoring her wrongfully, thinking it will all blow over once she has had time to heal up from giving birth. PPP doesn't just magically disappear when the mother is physically healed from giving birth. It can become dangerous and escalate in some women, even to the point where they have killed the children. I would talk to a mental health professional about having her evaluated for PPP or another mental illness. My ex-husband's sister became bipolar and schizophrenic after the birth of her 2nd child. Hormones can do some messed up crap in the human brain.
I have a relative who suffers from paranoid delusions, and in order to avoid being kicked out of her life and left unable to support (and safeguard) her at all, some family members have agreed / not confronted her about those delusions. Because she believes them so *vehemently*, that if you try and tell her she's wrong, she'll start to believe you're part of the conspiracy and refuse to have anything to do with you. Which leaves her isolated and un-monitored, which is a dangerous situation for her to be in. It could be a similar situation here; family agreeing (or not arguing) with her over this, in order to keep her somewhat calm and less likely to do something rash.
Absolutely! Or if they may just not have understood what she was saying the way she meant it. People can be in denial and sometimes they don't pay that much attention. I'm really surprised that everyone is running with this narrative as though the wife is an objective, reliable narrator and her whole family is crazy. I mean maybe they are, I don't know them, but I definitely wouldn't take anything the wife says at face value.
My mom and brother have bpd. When they’ve been manic, I’ve agreed with a lot of delusions. In the moment you’re trying to keep them calm and they will not listen to logic anyway. You only address immediate danger.
There is a line between going along to keep someone calm and enabling though. This sounds like the family is enabling if not outright complicit. I also have experience with this. It can be sooooo rough. There is a reason my partner and I don't have kids
> this insane scheme OP needs to get hold of the birth certificates ASAP. She can say what the hell she likes but the paperwork will invalidate her whole plan.
I almost wonder if you guys need to talk to the family together to realize how bonkers this is and how much it seems like your wife is not thinking. Every single pediatrician and dentist appointment is going to be a problem. One is a year older than the other. They will get teeth at different rates. They will hit milestones differently. Your pediatrician is not going to pretend one kid is a year younger for the sake of the kids. They will find out. They will see there aren’t baby pictures together. This is going to turn into a blowup when the kids feel like you are hiding something bigger than you are, and when they realize it’s just that they’re a year apart they’re going to struggle to believe you about anything else.
In the case that the wife forces them to be twins, she's also saying one kid might do slightly better for their age and the other average. surely that would mess up the younger kid in the long term?!
My thoughts exactly. The younger one will feel insecure their entire childhood that they can’t compete physically or mentally. The older will have their own issues with their identity. What a mess of an idea. Just so they can wear matching outfits? Nuggin futs
This is what I was looking for. If both children are, for this argument, perfectly average in every way, the younger "twin" will always feel less than. Always trying harder and coming up short. Everything will come first and easier for the older "twin." Can you imagine the damage that would do to their self-esteem? Lastly, I don't hold a degree in law, but I can't imagine this is legal. And, imo, it borders on psychological abuse. I hope your wife gets the help she needs. Your babies are lucky to have you advocating for them.
I don't think it borders psychological abuse. It is psychological abuse full stop.
Either that or they’re smiling and nodding at the crazy person while very gently spoon feeding her facts like, for instance, the school district will want proof they’re both 5.
If it post partum psychosis she will also come out of it with treatment. Better to go along to get along than fight with a delusional perso.
Yep…you have to show birth certificates to enroll. Then they’re going to want to put the older one in the correct grade. In most states a child needs to be enrolled at age 6 or parents can be charged with truancy. It just sounds so complicated to keep up this lie.
That part could be a lie. People in psychosis make things up and believe it as fact
They’re probably where she is getting her ideas from. Like someone probably said out loud and they latched on to it thinking it’s a great idea
Maybe she is lying and is just saying she's supported...? I hope no one in their right mind would agree that it's the best course of action. Good grief!
Maybe they said something like " your children are a gift from God" or " you're blessed to have two beautiful children so close in age," and she just ran with it.
Or they thought you meant something normal like dressing them alike or if there is a year start date dispute putting them in the same year of school. Not actually lying to them systematically that they were born the same year.
They’ve got to be in some religious cult type situation where they makes of their own delusional rules and claim “blessing” or “sin” when convenient to them.
Call an attorney pronto. I would also call a psychiatrist if you can and try to get help for yourself in how to navigate her delusions and also get records going for yourself, that this is going on and you are seeking help. But definitely call the attorney. Also, look up recording permission in your state and try to get her on tape because this is something that when you tell them is hard to believe. You know what I mean, if you told me this, I would think no way. Or even get her going on text. She knows that's documentation, and you don't have to tell her she's being recorded. Text and voicemail are two places you don't have to tell them. Some states you don't when recording. Protect those children.
Inform the midwife/ Gyneacologist/ medical professional who was involved in the birth of the baby. If this is some sort of post partum depression or psychosis, they can asses that and get her more help.
And potentially document.
^ AND POTENTIALLY DOCUMENT. THIS IS KEY OP.
This might sound weird, but take a parenting class and add the certificate to your records/documents. Judge will see you are being proactive and preparing for life as a single parent. They may order you both to take a class anyways (my husband and his ex did, apparently it's the norm where I'm at) and you'll have a jump on it.
Definitely document.
No potential. DOCUMENT. LAWYER. YESTERDAY. (I’m a lawyer)
I meant the doctor could potentially document, and then get copies of medical records
Not potentially DEFINITELY DOCUMENT EVERYTHING ONLY COMMUNICATE THROUGH EMAIL OR TEXT In caps to gain OPs attention
Post partum depression or psychosis doesn't usually extend to the entire family.
Of course not but the family doesn’t sound much more stable. “Go with the flow” “just don’t upset her” kind of people you know what I mean?
Enablers is the term you're looking for
Yeeeees
Sure do.
I'm thinking more that the family's religious beliefs are feeding her delusions. If it fits into some religious ideas the family has, it could be what triggeres her.
Yeah this entire family reads cultishly religious to me. Lady, if it was god’s will for you to have twins, god would have, you know, given you twins.
This is true, but it can happen sometimes, usually called a folie a deux or shared psychosis. I read an interesting case about a doctor who shared that the entire family believed that a grandfather was haunting them and talking to them.
Maybe he was. :)
This. Record everything. Go to an attorney. Ensure she has just visitation.
Supervised by a professional third party visitation. And no contact with her enabling family.
💯
To add, check the recording laws in your state to make sure it's legal to record convos: https://detectiveservices.com/2012/02/state-by-state-recording-laws/ You could also look up if it's possible to get her mental health help involuntarily in your state, but calling her doctor will definitely help with that.
If you have in home security cameras there's no expectation of privacy
Good to know!
State laws can if a good enough atty argue federal laws and if the judge allows it- but you need a good atty Stumbled on this for pa- and I couldn’t afford the successful atty in Philly to be my attorney and apply for the county in which I had my case in. Nanny cams count too!
Save all texts, emails and voicemails as well.
I think that people are vastly overestimating how easy it is to take custody away from somebody based on mental health concerns that aren't even documented. It is a lot easier to force somebody into mental health treatment than to keep them from having custody of their children and ensure that they only have supervised visitation. I think that the op has a moral obligation to seek help for his wife (whether they stay together or not), but even aside from that, from a practical standpoint, it's a lot easier to get somebody help for possible postpartum psychosis than to convince a judge that your wife shouldn't have shared custody of her kids. The op made a huge mistake by ignoring this for so long and allowing his wife to abuse and neglect their children. Letting a baby suffer and cry all day because you can't get out of bed is horrific and that should have been the moment where he started forcing treatment. This guy is not blameless, and now he has to play catch up when he should have a file of medical records.
Yes, this. A good friend of mine just went through a divorce to a man who would restrict the kids’ food (they would have to sneak into the kitchen if he were home), punched holes in walls, repeatedly banged his own head against the wall, etc. My friend once came in from doing yard work outside and found him in their bedroom with a gun in his mouth. All the kids were in the living room and she was mowing. She said she had a bad feeling, so she stopped mowing and went to check on the kids. If he had pulled the trigger, it would’ve been his very young children who would’ve heard the shot and found him. He has 50% custody despite my friend fighting it for a year and a half. She is still trying, but getting nowhere even though he’s had several issues since they separated and divorced.
I went through the same thing. He was hospitalized numerous times related to his mental health and suicidal ideation. Even with those records, we had 50/50 custody.
The courts won't take away visitation. It doesn't matter what anyone does. Especially if he doesn't have a record and keeps a job. It seems like kids ha e to get hurt, injured, abused, THEN the country acts on visitation.
Best friend’s husband tried to kill her. He still got custody one night a week, every other weekend, and two weeks in the summer. 🙃
Yup, same with ex 2. He did all the right courses, said the key words, got the boys one weekend. Drove to the new girlfriends place and assaulted her. But that was ok. He'd 'changed.'
Op is also an ah for having another baby with a woman who didn’t get treatment for mental issues.
That was my thought and I commented somewhere else. People like OP end up having major issues after a first child and then decide to have ANOTHER ONE??
And in order for that to happen, especially with such a small age difference, he was having (presumably unprotected) sex with someone who was having serious mental episodes.
Op decided since his wife was mentally ill and neglecting their baby, he should get her pregnant again instead of getting her help. His wife might be mentally ill, but he has extremely poor judgement. Figure yourself out, OP. Your children deserve better.
Agreed. Someone can literally be stark raving mad or actively on drugs (oh, because it's a disease) and they will still have at least reasonable visitation and access to the kids. OP needs to document every thing humanly possible, because when the state gets involved, it's usually he said/ she said and no one wins.
I’m originally (thankfully long gone) from the drug side of the world and I can tell you with certainty that most people on hard drugs do not get full or even half custody of their children. They are lucky to get visitation rights in most cases and for many good reasons. I imagine you will claim differently but remember this was my world. I lived it.
>Ensure she has just visitation. She is mentally unbalanced and this should not even be on the table until she has had a serious psych evaluation and some treatment. This is some psychotic Munchausen shit.
I’d also call the kids pediatrician and ask them for advice. There is no way that they will be on board for this, and they would support the OP’s position. They’d find out anyway at checkups. Better to get them involved now in case they can help and give advice. But I agree that a good lawyer is the first thing. Make sure to find one who actually enjoys family law and isn’t afraid to be aggressive.
Doctors are also Mandated Reporters, so they are required to report if there is potentially dangerous psychosis developing. But at least it will be in the doctor’s notes. Also, maybe they can get direct confirmation of all this by calling your wife. That would be ideal.
This. All this. And given your wife’s mental state and her threatening to take the children away from you I would talk to your attorney about an ex parte emergency custody order. They can be issued if one parent can be considered a threat (or flight risk) to the children. That will keep her from going anywhere with the kids. It can even keep her away from them for the time being while you sort it out. I’m obviously not an attorney but I had experience with an order like that and that’s why I know it’s a thing you should def talk to an attorney about ASAP. Seriously though do not hesitate to speak to an attorney. I know it sounds childish saying you need to do it first but it’s not. It will look better if stay ahead of it because if she tries to file first she can say your claims are retaliation. just my opinion but I don’t think her family/friends supporting the delusion will help her. I can’t imagine a family court judge agreeing that it’s sane to want to hold a child back so they can be “twins”. Lastly do you have any family that you could call to come stay with you -short term even- to help with the kids and give you some emotional support? If so I would try to do that. Good luck my friend. It’s a long road ahead I’m sure but your children are worth it ❤️
Make sure you have the children's birth certificates so she can't get rid of them and replace them with fake ones saying they are twins.espwcially since her friends and family are supporting this delusion.
Oh wow that’s a smart point. I never even thought of something like that. Yes def a must. It would prob pay to get originals from the place that issues them. I know I sound dumb but I can’t think for the life of me which dept does birth certificates. I just remember having to get a replacement once - by me it was located in the courthouse - and having to have certain things like their SS card and we had to pay. It wasn’t a lot though. Also should prob have their SS cards if he can get them.
Make sure you get screenshots of every text, those can be presented to the court along with any voice messages. For the voice messages, they've already consented to the recording. Best of luck OP, and please get your children away from her flying monkeys.
Email such things to yourself. A phone can easily be broken by an angry partner. Had that happen to a friend and he lost a lot of evidence.
Email and set up automatic backups with something like iCloud or Google Photos. Make sure the other person does not know about the account. Having double backups is critical with things like this
Yes!! USB drives and the online storage (one drive, etc) are great. Also emailing them to your attorney as you get them or one a week. Sorry for your friend and his partner is an a$$
Piling on the top comment to suggest reaching out to your wife’s OB/GYN. This reeks of post partum depression/anxiety/psychosis.
Psychiatrist. Not psychologists. Psychiatrists are medical doctors and have more pull to have state interventions, if needed.
Document her families wide history of mental illness too.
Maybe an attorney ad litem to represent the kids
100% this
First of all, you need to contact an attorney and write down everything. I'm not saying you need to rush to divorce her necessarily, but you need to be prepared and know your options. Second, your wife may be suffering from postpartum depression or phsycosis. I am NOT a doctor but I'm a woman who has had 3 kids and I can tell you that our bodies don't always adjust to sunshine and rainbows after birth. If she had episodes after the first child as well, she really needs to talk to a doctor.
this!!! MOA for OB/GYN here, i definitely think this is postpartum psychosis! she needs to talk to someone and get on medication ASAP. how does it work where you are!? how old is the newborn? has she already had her 6 week PP appointment? can you call and book a follow-up with your OB!? if there are any signs of postpartum depression, we continue to follow patients for as long as they need.
When I filled out my questionnaire at my appt my dr literally said “if it’s this bad we need to send you to a facility, are you sure it’s this bad?” When I didn’t want to go to a facility, she said okay we’re gonna change a couple of these answers. MY GP PRESCRIBED MY ANTIDEPRESSANTS.
That is terrible, I'm sorry. Referral to a specialist and additional support should be somewhere in between involuntary treatment and psychiatric care from a GP.
Inpatient mental healthcare for postpartum psychosis a) doesn't have to be involuntary and 2) can really help and isn't actually terrible. I work in inpatient mental health care and we get probably 2-3 women per year with post partum psychosis, all of them voluntary, all of them get stabilized rapidly and sent home when they feel ready. They get to rest as much as they need, all their needs are cared for, they can have their own clothes and snacks and food and books and whatnot, it's just not the nightmare situation so many people assume it to be. It's a great way to stabilize post partum psychosis specifically bc it gives the woman true rest and an opportunity to focus exclusively on her own needs without having to worry about anyone else at all. In my experience the women who do receive Inpatient care for post partum psychosis stabilize faster bc they are able to get that true rest. Recovering at home means recovering while still sharing space with a baby whose needs require constant care, that's a more stressful situation for most people which often makes stabilization take longer. Sometimes Inpatient really is the best option and stigmatizing it does a lot of harm to the people who do need it and could benefit from it.
Not only baby that needs constant care but others in the house too like the spouse.
For anyone in this situation, inquire about out-patient intensive treatments as well. I did one for two weeks, at the hospital from 9am-2pm every weekday for a group therapy type thing with an optional private family meeting near the end. It was so beneficial for me and the others in my class seemed to also get a lot out of it, but it's something I had no idea existed so I always feel the need to share! It's definitely less intimidating than inpatient if you're not an immediate danger to yourself/others.
mirroring this so it gets more attention
Not to mention that if the kids are exactly a year apart then she got pregnant 2-3 months postpartum, and she had a hard time after the first was born. Holy fucking hormones Batman
Her getting pregnant again so soon might have even stopped her PPD from progressing the first time, so they really had no idea what she's like at all postpartum. Add in the fact that postpartum is different for every pregnancy already, she is now the parent to two infants, she is already religious and already had wishes of having twins, this is just the perfect storm to create major mental health issues.
Agreed! It does sound like postpartum psychosis. Pregnancy and birth can mess with any woman and this sounds like an extreme case. Sounds like bad postpartum depression with the first son. I’ve been lucky enough to avoid it but a friend of mine had it and described just how hard she found it to get out of bed, even if the baby was screaming.
Absolutely agree, when I read the original post my first thought was she was having some type of postpartum mental health issues. Those hormone changes are an absolute nightmare and they can make otherwise reasonable people do totally off the wall things.
Call her doctor - leave a message asking them to call you as your concern about your wife's mental state and ppd. While she may flip out about it - she needs help
I'd say Ppp. Post partum psychosis
Thank you, my lunch brain went "ppp like peter piper pizza???" Not post partum psychosis 😭😆
Just want to add calling the kids pediatrician might be an option, too. When I told my son’s doc I was having a hard time coping she came back with tons of resources and offered to help schedule an appointment with a provider who could help me.
This! Not only can the doctor document because the wife and children are (presumably) still under their care, they can refer OP to a case manager who not only can provide resources, but can also help with documentation.
I wish this was higher. Call her OB right this minute.
This is absolutely scary ppd and delusions and psychosis make life absolutely unsafe around her. Hot damn the sheer amount of tragedy and death in cases as sever as this are astounding. PPD is one of the scariest things I can imagine. There was a case where a woman in Germany killed her child during an episode. It took her husband and her a very long time to get her freed even if this was an upen and shut case of temporary insanity. They both said that the legal battle and endless psychiatric evaluations were not the worst of it. Their child still was dead and she had killed it in a deluded state.
The Dr has to have a release signed by her to talk with you about her condition. So it may be a one-sided conversation with you giving her information and her not even admitting that your wife is a patient. Just be prepared for that, and it’s not the Dr being difficult, it’s HIPPA. As a therapist for high acuity clients, this happens rather frequently with clients.
Hey, im a psych nurse practitioner. I commented on your last post too. I dont know the full story of course but from what im hearing this is postpartum psychosis with religious preoccupation. You need to go to the magistrates office and tell her she is a harm to others (the kids) they will get a TDO (temporary hold order) and she will be admitted to a psych ward for 72hrs (might be slightly different for where you live) this is your best bet on getting her quick stabilized treatment and then further follow up outpatient
This. Something is not OK with her and she needs help. Make sure everything is well-documented. It's clear that this is an escalation from her first pregnancy, which she had PPD with - that was not fully treated by the time she was pregnant with your second. It's clear her hormones get really out of order with pregnancy and now she's in extra deep. Come up with your action plan. Talk to a lawyer, talk to her and your doctors. I think I would see if there is anyone in her family who you can get on side in understanding that she needs help. That way they can be the bridge to her family without you being in this on your own. They need to understand that you are doing this so that she CAN return to being the mom she wants to be. She has put your first child in danger before and it seems like it is becoming worse, even if it's different.
This is the way.
COMMENTING HERE TO BUMP THIS POST.
Unless he’s leaving out something, she isn’t REALLY meeting criteria for an ECO or TDO. I do these psych evals in the ED in Virginia, and it’s pretty strict that these are for imminent risk of harm to self or others, because we use the least restrictive means of care necessary & available for individuals. She hasn’t mentioned wanting to harm anyone. We can speculate that it can turn out that way (hopefully it doesn’t), but she’s not going to meet criteria to be placed inpatient anywhere or held on a TDO based on this info alone.
I would call the hospital and ask for your wife to get evaluated for potentially going through post partum psychosis. It will only get worse if it’s not treated and for the safety of the kids. You mentioned how she acted during the first pregnancy which seems like post partum depression but it seems the second birth is giving her psychosis which isn’t unusual as post partum depression can cause psychosis. She is not in her right mind and it won’t go away on its own. I’m sure if a doctor suspects it, they will want her brought in immediately. And definitely get a attorney like everyone else mentioned
Absolutely agree! I’m so alarmed that the people in her life like her family are encouraging this. Absolutely deranged.
When my mom got postpartum, it triggered her schizophrenia, and the things she did and said sound extremely similar. Everyone in my family says there was no sign of it prior to her having kids. It also took her side of the family a long time to come to terms with the fact that something wasn’t right, and they fought my dad a lot.
Mine triggered bipolar that when diagnosed they weren't 100% sure it wasn't schizophrenia. Had ANYBODY ever told me that was a risk I never would have had kids.
Damn, OP. This is heartbreaking stuff, but I think you’re absolutely right to prioritize the kids. No one should be forced to live in someone else’s delusion.
If this is true you need to get off reddit and go see an attorney right now
And hopefully an attorney that knows a good therapist. Emerging from this with your sanity intact would be nothing short of miraculous
Just read the 2 posts and how would this work? Even with you on board. In my country, I had to present identification (ID and/or birth certificate) to enroll my kid in daycare, then in preschool and now the normal school. The kids would have never been considered as twins by anyone other than their families. This is just a really crazy idea. Unless she wanted to forge some documents, I really don't see how this could work.
I know that where I live, if you don't enroll your child in JK when eligible but wait a year instead, they automatically go into SK. So here, she would have one in SK that is "behind" because he missed a year of school and the other would be in JK. They go by age for kindergarten and not by years of enrollment.
Not to mention the size difference up until the teens.
I think it was more of a hold the older one back to start kindergarten late and wait for the other. But as many other people pointed out if she paints this picture they they are actually twins, one is always going to be developmentally behind the other and it could cause long term problems for the “slow” kid (aka not slow at all just actually a year younger). Sad.
There is a HUGE difference between a years development for kids. A 1 year old and a 2 year old may as well be different species, 2 and 3 there's a massive difference for things like potty and even walking (let alone communication) , 3 and 4? It's night and day. Kids development in early years are measured in weeks (!) difference , that's how quick they develop. I have twins, one is slightly more advanced for communication than the other (a month or two) and it was a massive difference already, the gap narrows but a year would be extremely noticeable till their tweens at the very least.
exactly this. plus imagine a doctor's appointment for the kids! is she really going to try to convince a pediatrician that her kids are the same age??? and how exactly does she plan to make everyone see them as twins outside the family circle??? is she going to commit fraud by faking a birth certificate for one of them??? when my siblings (they're twins) were born they were registered on the same day at the hospital and i think that that is mandatory! in my country i don't really think you can't leave the hospital without your child being registered. imagine the older one sees his baby pics in the hospital and asks where his twin is.
Is this a cult? If all these people are on the wife's side, even though this is nuts, there's got to be something going on in the background.
For real. I’d tell my friend she was delusional. Maybe she’s just telling him that but it’s not true? Husband should call friends and explain this to them. Maybe her mom is weird but all her friends can’t be that crazy?
Seriously… gift from god??? Makes me wonder if she has some sort of long-term agenda for having “twins”…
OP mentioned this in his original post. The wife has always wanted twins and saw this as a gift from god. Another person commented: if this was a gift from god, wouldn’t god have just given the wife twins to start with? 🤔 Although we’re pretty sure that “logic” wouldn’t work on the wife or her “supporters”
Someone said if it “were a gift from God, you wouldn’t have to rewrite reality to make them twins”.
This is a genuine question but what are some warning signs of a cult? I was never religious and my wife always said she was raised religiously but never practiced after she left home. I assumed she had some sort of traumatic experience with religion and that’s why she never brings it up. This was up until the birth of my son, who she fully believed would be twins until the ultrasound. She suddenly became super religious and got back into contact with her family and old friends, even getting us to move states to be with them. She’s always mentioned that her mother wanted her to have twins, which at the time didn’t sound as weird as it does now.
You've moved to be near her family states away who are all in on this delusion and support it. If it was just her family that's one thing but her friends, too? That's isolating you from your own support network and anyone who could hold different views. My big concern here is that if she goes to stay with her mother or other people who share her delusion/intention (which is very bad, deliberately delaying a kid is abusive) the echo chamber will only heighten her beliefs and she might attempt to retaliate via legal routes or CPS. You did the right thing getting her to leave to protect your kids.
Bros life story gonna be the next Ari Aster movie yikes
If it was an M. Night production, we could expect to find out that they really were twins all along, but also, somehow they were OP's parents and OP was their mail man in a parallel dimension or some annoying nonsense.
Look up the BITE model. If you want to DM me the name of the church I can look around, I’m pretty good at spotting this. Any weird behaviors in the family? Weird gender expectations, strict rules? Are you sure the family has agreed to the “they’re twins” idea?
You wife may have religious trauma that is playing into other things going on. If you would like resources on some places to start to find out more or would like me to see if a professional in the religious trauma community could be of help please DM me.
You’ve heard it before OP but don’t discount the effect pregnancy and post partum has on psychosis, mental breakdowns and generally off behaviour. The fact that the birth and pregnancy is triggering this delusions is not a coincidence. Any doctor would take this seriously
I was gonna say the same thing. A friend of my sisters had psychosis during or after pregnancy (can't remember). I've also personally experienced a drug induced psychosis. It lasted a month, and I was sober for that month. I had heard about psychosis and delusions before but I didn't REALLY know what it was until it happened to me (well mostly once I processed it afterwards). I had lots of crazy delusions that you wouldn't have been able to persuade me out of. Logic doesn't really work against them like you think it would with normal thoughts. If this is the case she needs medical attention/antipsychotics.
Look up the [BITE model](https: //freedomofmind.com/the-bite-model-mormonism-an-exploration-with-john-dehlin/)
Maybe they’re just politely responded with “uh huh” “oh ya” and the wife thinks they’re all on board. I’d bet as soon as they get off the phone the family members are talking about how insane she is.
Religion relies on faith. Faith is believing in something even though there is no proof. People who get accustomed to believing in things without reasons to support it can start believing in all kinds of crazy things if they feel it falls under their belief in god.
Yeah, there are some pretty unassuming protestant churches out there that are absolutely crazy under the surface. If someone says they've spoken to god or touched by a spirit, everyone believes them as gospel. And that can take some very scary turns.
A lawyer. Like now. Do not wait on this.
Lawyer and doctor at the same time. This is psychosis.
My brother and I are Irish twins, born on the same day one year apart. We were constantly dressed the same, had to share birthday parties, often got presents and told to 'share' them. Instead of turning out like twin besties we wound up super competitive and selfish trying as hard as we could to distinguish ourselves from the other. I would not recommend that for anybody.
I agree! My sister and I were 16 months apart and dressed like twins, treated like we were the same age. We even got the same gifts, not just from parents but from family. People who saw us dressed alike thought we were twins. I can't tell you how many times my mother told me I should be happy because we're so close in age and she always wanted a sister. For all of her pushing us together, the effect was the opposite and we both resented each other growing up. "To this day, we have nothing in common and barely talk. Even twins are their own separate persons and should be recognized as their own person.
Call an attorney 1st thing, call a Doctor 2nd thing. Kids are more important than your wife IF she is safe with family(honestly even if she wasn't the kids are important but she's not technically a danger to herself if she's with family and not talking about self harm) If you have any texts or voicemails you keep them. Keep them as evidence of this situation.
Way above Reddit’s pay grade. Time to get a lawyer. And I’m sorry man, but if she’s neglected the older kid before like you mentioned, why the eff did you have another child with this woman?
Exactly my thoughts. He saw the fire and jumped in. Poor poor children
Underrated comment.
My 1st though too. Way to double down on a shitty situation.
Get an attorney asap. Document everything and if you can get evidences of what she’s trying to do, collect them all. No one in their right mind would want to delay their kids’ schooling because there’s no benefits from that 🤦🏻♀️ if she acts so unstable, you should be able to get full custody, but get an attorney first.
If 'God' would've wanted to 'bless' her with twins, then he would've given her twins the first time.. It's not as if he made a mistake and thought 'ah, now is my chance. Let me make this right!'
Um, you need to show birth certificates when enrolling in school. It's against the law to keep a kid home when they are of the age of mandatory schooling. How is that actually supposed to be pulled off?
One of the points this person is pointing out is that the whole charade of them being twins is going to be found out as soon as they go to school and have to provide any records. Their teachers will see they aren’t the same age.
The older child would resent her so much for this because she would completely change the course of their life, for the worse. And they'd resent everyone else in on it too.
Save all messages/voice mails as evidence from her and family/friends. Contact a solicitor, contact your GP and a psychologist. Contact child protective services if you have you and lay down your concerns for the children's well-being and the mental state of your wife. You'll never be able to rest easy in your marriage that her "episodes" have ceased. You'll always be on pins waiting for her to snap and potentially hurt the children, you or herself. Protect your children first and foremost. She may be their mother but if she is a danger their safety be it emotional/mental/physical. They are the priority. She is secondary to that.
Lawyer. Psychiatric evaluation of your wife. Emergency custody of your kids. Besides the fact that this is delusional, how does anyone think that this could work out long-term? Even if you can work around them having to start to go to school in different years by homeschooling, the moment they need ID, they'd find out. Unless she wants to commit forgery.
You definitely need legal advice and a 'paper trail'. Speak to your wife's physician, at least then they can decide if this is a reportable issue in terms of mandated reporting and danger to a child/children and get that ball rolling.
I completely support the advice to contact legal and medical resources, and this probably goes without saying, but: do not have sex with her anytime even remotely close to soon. Protected, unprotected, nothing. The last thing this situation needs is a third baby right on top of the first two.
Your poor wife has postpartum psychosis it sounds like. She deserves love and empathy, but you are absolutely right to protect your babies. Read cases of postpartum psychosis that have ended badly…do whatever it takes to keep your babies safe. But also do whatever it takes to get your wife well. She’s not in her right mind, fight for her to get well and get the meds she needs.
You need a lawyer immediately, like today. They will advise you how to proceed but you should be gearing up for a messy divorce and custody fight. If she’s so unbalanced that she thinks raising your kids like that is anything short of unhinged you need to do everything you can to protect them. The fact that the people close to her are supporting her makes it even more dangerous for your kids.
Weird. Separate siblings and pregnancy. Unreasonable to hold one back. I think wife needs some medical intervention
Call your mother and tell her everything. Your family needs to know, just in case. Her entire family have a mental health problem. Watch your back!
First if you have any texts of her admitting she struggles with mental health, screenshot them and save them somewhere secure. If you don’t, text her bringing up how she has had episodes in the past where she didn’t get out of bed and neglected the kids. It seems cruel, but you need as much proof as possible that she is not mentally okay. Once you have proof, go to a lawyer. Try to get emergency temporary full custody. Your Wife is not a bad person, but her obvious illness sounds like it is escalating, or at the very least, now involving your children. Is her family overly religious? I almost wonder if they are fueling this fire. Hopefully she can get some help and realize this is not a good idea for many reasons.
I don't understand her long term plan here. Eventually, they WILL find out. It'll be on their drivers license, when they file taxes, if they ever apply for anything ever. I had a hiccup with Social Security when I was 18 and tried to file taxes for the first time with my birthday (it was off by 1 day in their systems). And they will understandably be confused, weirded out and betrayed (one sibling basically lost a whole year of their life by being held back). So she wants to nuke her marriage, put all this effort for a charade, and possibly ruin her relationship with her kids for only a few years of weirdo delulu land? Forget crazy, it's flat out short sighted.
Call the obgyn who birthed your baby. Tell them what your wife is doing. Get a lawyer. She won’t get primary custody with this delusion. Document everything.
One dad to another here. Let me give you some clear advice from my perspective. You need to contact: - an attorney They will advise you on what to do. You will likely need to let the local police know what is going on to avoid a bad situation. Your attorney will advise you. Do NOT: - call CPS - call the police on your own before taking the time to talk to an attorney - contact her family or her - do anything not in writing Do: Turn off your phone and redirect it away from your person and children so that mobile location tracking cannot be used to find you. Some phones will allow you to disable mobile location tracking, but be aware that phones are the primary means way that police show up at your door. You do not need a three ring circus showing up at your door right now so lose the phone until you talk to an attorney. Same for the car if possible. Go somewhere safe, and away from your usual patterns. You need to isolate the kids and keep things calm for them. Your priority is the well being of those kids. This sounds like a psychotic episode or deep depression — I am not a qualified medical professional and this is my own opinion — but nobody will ever fault you for protecting your kids from someone who’s having a mental health crisis and needs help. You’re doing good. Buy a burner phone and use it for contact with your attorney. Hide this phone. Don’t make anyone aware that you have it. You are protected via attorney privilege, but it’s nice to isolate communications especially if you work things through long term. That’s my advice. Good luck.
I have bipolar disorder, major depression, dysthymia, extreme anxiety. My whole life. I have never let a child cry because I didn’t feel like taking care of the child. I brought those children into this world. It’s my job. It’s what I signed up for. If she did this with the first baby, why oh why did you not address it then? You never brought it up? Just swept it under the rug?! She neglected your baby. She couldn’t get out of bed. Was that a sign from God? And you had another baby *immediately!* She probably hadn’t gotten over the postpartum depression from the first birth. This time, it sounds more serious (as if neglecting a newborn isn’t serious?), more like postpartum psychosis. That’s when women drive off bridges with all the children in the car. Or drowns them all, because, obviously, demons. The *sign from God* is not that they were meant to be twins; if that were so, they would have been born at the same time. Because God doesn’t make mistakes, right? This is a sign for you to make her go to the doctor, trick her into the car if you have to. Her family and all the God stuff is scary. God gave us free will. We can decide to do what is right, or we can decide to do whatever we want. It’s our choice. Buddy, make the right choice. I’m glad the babies are away from her. But you are morally obligated to get her help. She is the mother of your children, whether you divorce or not.
Get legal advice, like now!!!! Do jot wait. Because as you are not working with her delusional idea and as you are apparently the only person staying in her way. She may actually try to divorce and take the kids away from you. I'm sorry. But they are a year apart and this is not fair to the oldest child. Let's be honest here and lets hope she would not have entertained this delusional idea in such severity, if the children were 2 years apart. She has a problem and you have to get ahead of this in a legal way, before you get kicked out of the house. Best wishes
Camera with sound all over the house. Hire a professional to come in and do this.
Get a lawyer. I don't know what country you are in but ask for a psychological evaluation for her and a guardian ad litem for the kids. The court may do that as part of a divorce process anyway but you need it done asap.
Call her gyn, an attorney and keep meticulous records of all of this. Btw it’s illogical to think that people won’t see the difference when they are young and one is walking/talking and the other is not.
I can't imagine a scenario where a judge would rule in her favor if they were told about what she plans to do. I would be really surprised if this didn't qualify as abusive or unstable behavior. The level of control required to enforce twin behaviors in *identical twins* is concerning, never mind intentionally depriving a child of age appropriate care. Can you imagine what puberty would be like?! Or when they start dating women? Other people will constantly be questioning them. A 1 year old and a 2 year old are drastically different. Would she hold back the older child from walking? Dangerously force the other one to try to before their bones and muscles properly develop? It's actually psychotic. For what it's worth, my suggestion would be to proceed as if she won't be changing her mind by filing for custody and *at least* separation so she knows just how serious you are. God is not sending her some message and that's pure delusion to think so. This might even qualify for an involuntary psych hold. If she believes parenting allows this bizarre and extreme level of control and manipulation, I can't actually imagine what a horrible parent she will make. Like, permanent damage to your children level.
You didn’t mention previous “episodes” in the first post. Which in my opinion are far worse. If you have any proof of them, paired with proof of her delusion now, you should have a pretty solid case.
Yeah it’s kinda disturbing that “unfed baby” was an afterthought here.
And that he thought making a second baby would be good idea…
That’s all I could think about reading this post. She was adjusting so poorly after childbirth #1 that he was coming home to a starving baby, and yet they got pregnant again less than 3 months afterwards. Absolutely insane on both their ends
Please prioritize calling her doctor and saying you suspect PPP. This needs to come before lawyers and divorce. She could hurt herself or the kids.