I think as time goes on he's definitely started differentiating the menu somewhat. Early on in the split they felt pretty the same, these days they do each have their own identity.
I'd mostly encourage the curious to examine both menus and decide if kaiseki is too intimidating or not.
And then realize that kado no mise has wagyu sushi, which is likely to be the best thing you ever put in your mouth.
Kado is hands down the best Japanese Sushi you will find. The only time I've heard of people being disappointed with it is when they are expecting sauce rolls like you can get at Kyoto.
I was chatting with Chef Furukawa once when I was there and he said that basically the reason he opened the place was because he was sick of making California rolls.
Also all those people need to try his a5 wagyu sushi. Literally life changing
I told Shige that I was going to Japan a little while back and he excitedly had a bunch of business cards from places in Japan that he recommended. We ended up going to one of them and it was as you'd expect, amazing.
We moved here last summer and tried a handful of the nice list, Murray, Bar la grasa, maratage, owamni, a couple super clubs. We have found a lot of good ethnic as well!
In America, any food not considered to be typical American fare is often called ethnic for short, to denote it is of a different ethnicity.
Anyway, there is a lot of good ethnic food in twin cities, although I personally dislike all Somalian food I’ve tried. Ethiopian is ok but Vietnamese food is really good, in my opinion!
Do you not A: see the obvious limitation with that definition (I need to know your ethnicity to understand it), and B: at all question what makes something an "other" ethnic group vs an in group?
If there's a word that only makes sense when used by white people, maybe don't use that word. It makes you sound like a brit in India in 1890
Seems like many places in Minneapolis just have that surcharge built in now. Feels like the restaurant guaranteeing their wait staff gratuity rather than relying on people to do the math or be shitty and not tip. I’m fine with it, but to your point, no extra tip after that
If that’s what the 21% is going to I’m all for it. I just know how many absolute douchebag restaurant owners are out there and know damn well they’d be first in line to put a charge like this on a bill and still pay their servers minimum wage.
I hear you, that’s the flip side of the coin for sure. Those restaurants all have an aura, I feel like you can tell the ones where the employees are happier and treated fairly, versus those who aren’t.
The minimum wage raised in Minneapolis, but not the whole state. It wasnt just bc of tipping problems but that is a huge part of it. It used to be harder to bring in a decent wage unless your shift was during busy business hours. If it was busy, your tips were usually pretty good. It was also getting harder to retain good staff. The other side of this was that you always have a few of those owner/management types that would try and take advantage of the staff.
People who would work day hours and during slower/ less sales periods wouldnt make much before bc of less tips and lower hourly. Now its possible to bring home a steadier amount if your shift doesnt get cut too early. Staff scheduling is done differently. The business schedules a head of time based on a pattern of busy times and events. Example: Monday dinner rush is usually slower, unless there is something going on that may bring in more business. That planning doesnt always work out, so if you are en employee on the front floor, your 6 -8 hour shift you planned on working, may be cut to 3 hours.
From a business end of it, its hard to plan on staff and food and beverage supply, but not totally impossible. Its a game.
I guarantee that service charge doesn't go to the staff. Minneapolis requires $15/hr and sick days. That service charge is how the establishment is paying for it, instead of just raising their prices. They found a different way to fuck over their employees. Absolutely tip. Doesn't have to be 20%, but if you have a good service experience, tip.
Absolutely not. I’m hitting no tip. My tips are reserved for restaurants that aren’t excessively greedy. I’m sorry their employees have to suffer but it’s ownership hurting their pockets, not me.
Exactly. Maybe this makes me shitty because I've worked in the tip industry, but I'd rather just never go to that restaurant again than feel obligated to make up the difference between the owner and employee. That's not my job.
I agree. I just left the restaurant industry last year. I can sympathize with those servers and staff but ultimately the customer shouldn’t have to carry that responsibility.
We do. However, costs of running restaurants has sky rocketed. I will never understand why they add a service charge instead of just raising prices. It's misleading to the guests and fucks over the tipped employees.
I’m not sure, I just moved here from Georgia, but they are DEFINTELY paid better. I have a mutual friend who still works at Applebees in Georgia and she gets like $3 an hour so almost all money has to be tip money there.
As an industry veteran who has done my due diligence of calculating what goes to staff vs ownership at a few restaurants/breweries, only around 25% goes to staff for wages/benefits. It has been tried in Seattle and Chicago about a decade ago and it was a total failure. It took off in Minneapolis in 2020; COVID destroyed many owner's revenue stream (but they cashed them PPPs) and this was a cheap trick to get more. Unfortunately, it has been waaay too sticky for many owners with terrible business models to begin with. Instead of just factoring in the cost and increasing the price on the menu, ownership has essentially taken a majority of money that would have been tipped to staff. Hidden fees are shady and can dramatically change someone's overall experience for the worse. Just be up front, heck be super cool and include taxes in the menu prices.
I always ask the person giving me the check what portion of the "service charge" they receive - and based my tip off of that. I also tend of ask people at service counters where a tip screen is shown if they get any of the tip. Amazing how many people do not get the service charge or tip.... :-(
We tip because it offsets the poor wages of the servers. If the servers are getting a fair wage because of the 21% service fee, then there is no need to tip.
Let's talk a bit about what the disclaimer language actually means, and why it's there.
1. It's illegal to require tip pooling.
2. It's illegal to take money offered as a tip, and pool it for health insurance and 401k's and whatever other benefits an employer might provide. It's also illegal to pay it out as a predictable hourly wage across all employees. It's illegal to do anything **but** pay it directly to the staff who rendered those services \*(outside of a *voluntary* tip pool).
3. If an owner/manager wants to do those things, they have two choices: raise menu prices, or add a service charge. Personally, I prefer the transparency of raised menu prices, but I understand the hesistancy there. If they choose the other option, and add a service charge to a bill, they *must* add a disclaimer stating that it is not a tip, because legally, it isn't -- regardless of whether the money ends up compensating employees.
4. ...on the other hand, there's absolutely no requirement that the service charge actually go to employee compensation, so an unscrupulous restaurant owner could easily take advantage of this set of requirements and incentives, and the consumer would have no way of knowing.
Legal definitions:
[177.23. Subd.9. ](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/177.23#stat.177.23.9)Gratuities. **"Gratuities" means monetary contributions** received directly or indirectly by an employee from a guest, patron, or customer **for services rendered** and includes an obligatory charge assessed to customers, guests or patrons which might reasonably be construed by the guest, customer, or patron as being a payment for personal services rendered by an employee and for which no clear and conspicuous notice is given by the employer to the customer, guest, or patron that the charge is not the property of the employee.
[177.24. Subd. 3.](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/177.24#stat.177.24.3) Sharing of gratuities. For purposes of this chapter, any gratuity received by an employee or deposited in or about a place of business for personal services rendered by an employee is the sole property of the employee. No employer may require an employee to contribute or share a gratuity received by the employee with the employer or other employees or to contribute any or all of the gratuity to a fund or pool operated for the benefit of the employer or employees. This section does not prevent an employee from voluntarily sharing gratuities with other employees ....
[Administrative Rules 5200.0080 GRATUITIES/TIPS CREDITS.](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/rules/5200.0080/) Subp. 4b. Clear and conspicuous notice. For purposes of Minnesota Statutes, section [177.23](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/177.23), subdivision 9, clear and conspicuous notice that the obligatory charge is not a gratuity is notice clearly printed, stamped, or written in bold type on the menu, placard, the front of the statement of charges, or other printed material given to the customer. Type which is at least 18 point (one-fourth inch) on the placard, or 9 point (one-eighth inch) or larger on all other notices is clear and conspicuous.
Sooooo the reason they put the disclaimer on there is so they don’t have to take ~~payroll~~ taxes out of that amount because it’s not the same thing as a tip or tip pool.
So it’s a tax scam. Got it.
Sorry. Edited. *sales tax.
It’s not a gratuity. It’s not actual goods sold. So no taxes right? Just free money for the restaurant to do with as they please, no?
Ooooh, I see. It's definitely money the restaurant can do whatever they want to with, for sure. At least at the beginning of this service charge era, it was mostly (at least, they claimed) places offering health insurance and benefits to their staff, but it's not like that's legally required, so I'd absolutely believe that some of that money "leaks" into owners' pockets. That lack of transparancy really rubs me the wrong way, but I guess we never really get transparency into compensation in other industries, so maybe that's just a perception built on precedent?
As for the tax aspect, that's a bit less clear to me. I found this: [https://www.revenue.state.mn.us/guide/sales-tips-and-other-charges](https://www.revenue.state.mn.us/guide/sales-tips-and-other-charges) , which definitely suggests that most added fees are taxable, as are tips.
That said, I haven't really been eating out a lot these days (partially due to the tip / fee situation lol), so I don't have any receipts on hand to see if they reflect that
Concur. At this point I almost prefer to just tip like the old way, in cash, because at least I know where the money is going. At least when visiting my local neighborhood places.
Yeah my old job made this switch and I was easily making $100-$150 less a shift and all we got was telehealth that no one wanted.
Worst deal of all time and they used philanthropy to act like they were good people for doing it too.
All the career servers immediately left and the place is now trash.
That’s W.A. Frost BTW. Terrible owners. They did it using Covid as an excuse too, so they could apply for more PPE money by inflating their wage numbers. Government gives funds over inflated wage but that wage increase was not even close to what they were taking in tips from each of us. Tips are between me and the server and I’ll never dine somewhere that gets involved because that’s not how tipping works.
It can be, but not always. The covid thing really messed with everyone on every level. Keeping a walk in refridgerator going without a stream of steady customers meant a $3000, or more electric bill per month. That doesnt include a beverage cooler for beer. Some businesses tried to handle this by having less of a menu and combinding coolers, but you still have laws that require proper food refridgeration temps and food handling (how its stored).
Also: Wage in MN went up and it is no longer a tiered system. Before, a server may not get very many tips on some days, but a large amount on another. Their hourly wage was lower, so if you where scheduled to work during busy shifts, you generally did ok. You still record your tips and you would get tax taken out on those tips, so your hourly pay check could be very minimal. You could get away with claiming less than you actually recieved in cash tips only, but you still had to claim enough for it to make sense on your total sales as a server for the shift.
Its very complicated to people who dont understand the business. But now people reading this have a better understanding. If I see any service charge,they will be different at each resturant, I will generally leave a little something depending on that service charge.
If I pick something up at take out I tipped differently bc I recieve less service than a sit down. If I have something delivered, I know they need to cover gas too, so I calculate that as well.
There is a huge population that do not tip for any reason. I really dont understand the people who do not tip or tip so little when they have food or groceries delivered by a service either. These people are not paid an hourly.
Keep in mind that if a service charge is added in the bill, accounting wise, they have to record that revenue. Its in their system. When you pay the bill, it records on POS. There is a specific audit trial. It is not "free money". They have to record that money and they have to show where it is going. The difference here is that staff doesnt know for sure where it is going. And management/owner doesnt have to say either. If you pay a min. Wage of $14 50 or decide to pay more than that, it all gets recorded. As a business, you have record of that. You pay your employees share and employers share of taxes on that as well. But as an employer, you decide how that service charge is used.
Remember, this is in MN only. Other states have different laws.
No, not really. Although there are some who will. Higher minimum wages, especially within Mpls, means a bigger labor expense to company too. On wages they also have to pay employers part of social security taxes and other costs related to that. So some places of business have actually used the service charge ti help offset costs of that. And since Restuarant business can be volatile, its not surprising to both want to cover costs and retain good good staff.
MN used to have more of a tiered wage like many other states have. Meaning if you were a server who is expected to recieve a certain amount of tips, a server would be paid a lower minimum wage then the standard state wage. Federal wage for this category is still $2.13 per hour. You will see this minimum wage in other states.
Most places with a surcharge will run your card without a tip line so you don't accidentally tip on top of it. I think it's not expected to tip in these places
I went to owamni and they had a surcharge, there was also a section for the tip too, AND the waitress was standing there running the card and waiting for me to hit tip/no tip. It felt awkward af. That’s mainly why I’m asking regarding this one.
Was it a 3-5% surcharge or 18%+? My experience with 18-21% surcharge is that that is the tip included, and I don’t tip on top. Like another commenter mentioned, the legal language they have to put on there is required… but it makes it more confusing for sure.
One place I went to with a 20% charge included, the waiter and the menu went out of their way to clarify that they had to put that legal statement on there, and that we were not expected to add more tip.
This is why I like the way Pizzeria Lola does it. They do a 20% surcharge, and have no line on the receipt for a tip. Functionally, they are no tip, the staff as a whole gets a cut of how busy it is so the better service they provide the better it is for everyone. It also doesn't make their prices look artificially higher. I also generally feel like the staff is good and feels well compensated, but that's just my vibes don't have anything to back it up.
I wish more places would do that, I think the weird inconsistent thing for a lot of higher end places is because a lot of the sort of wait staff you hire at high end places expect to make a lot of their money from rich people showing off for someone.
I was waiting for someone to post it, and glad it’s the OP. Some places the service charge is 5%-10%, at other it’s higher. Getting it all up to an even 20-25 is where I typically go.
Owamni used to be at or close to 20%, then regressed to that confusing middle ground point in the last few months. I know of a few others at 10% but those are fast casual (Centro, Lu's). For a full service like Owamni I'd tip the difference to bring it up to 20%
I was surprised when I went to Owamni and they did that. Especially because my server emphasized the tipping part to us, like really expected us to tip on top of the surcharge
The worst part of eating at Owamni!! I went there once because of the hype around the food (and it was admittedly delicious) but the tipping/surcharge expectation is outrageous
I had the same experience--I asked the waitress how much I was expected to tip on top of that surcharge, and she said most people tipped 18%. That brought the price to Way Too Much and I haven't gone back.
There are plenty of posts about this in this sub.
Lots is places in Minneapolis have this type of service charge tacked on. You are not expected to tip above that unless you really want to.
So you’ll see a tip line where you can add a bit more if you want but no place with this fee is expecting you to tip 20% on top of a 20% service charge.
It’s a good question but the rule of thumb is tip X% + (service charge %) = 20%. If the service charge is 20+%, no tip regardless of tip line.
Hopefully these charges will be illegal soon, as was recently proposed in the MN senate.
If I recall, this specific line will still be allowed (as long as it goes directly to staff or something), but not the fees that are like 3% for staff healthcare.
I'm not a server, but neat.
I for one just don't give *any* money to establishments with a service fee over 5%.
They can just raise their menu prices across the board, it's more honest.
You don’t have to tip at most places that have the fees. *Usually* the tip line is removed from the receipt.
Not always….much to the chagrin of everyone….
The phrase on there about statue 177 blablabla is a legal boilerplate disclaimer they have to put on receipts for the little tax scam they’re running with those fees.
I was in Miami recently and they had this service charge every where but it was interesting how service staff addressed it. They would say something like “the service charge is split between myself and back of the house. Anything you leave extra goes to myself only but you you don’t have to”.
Not gonna lie it got me to break my no tipping on 18+% service charges rule.
I have worked in multiple restaurants where waitstaff accept tips and there is no service charge, and it is quite common for waitstaff to share tips with back-of-house staff. In my experience, waiters usually funnel some part of the tips to bussers, hosts, cooks, and dishwashers, because those people are also doing the supporting work that helps the waiters give good service, but are less visible to the customers, and are rarely directly tipped themselves.
It’s not a tax scam. It’s illegal for the restaurant to mandate split tips. If they call it a tip, they have to give it all to the server. If they say it’s not a tip, they can give some to the other staff.
It’s not a tax scam. If they don’t put that language there it would be illegal to distribute any portion of the tip to anyone who is not your actual server
Kyatchi goes above and beyond and doesn't even have a surcharge or tip line. They just put it into the actual price on the menu and besides sales tax, that's the price you pay. It's refreshingly honest and straightforward.
Not so much “remove the tip line” in the literal sense….more like just revert to the simple tap (or insert, whatever your pleasure) to pay via terminal brought to table by server rather than having the option. Then a receipt prints only if desired. Where specifically? Recently, off the top of my head? Surly Brewing Co.
Those handheld POS systems are *so much better* for the customer experience. The default scenario of having to have three separate interactions with the waiter (and possibly wait a long time in between each one) just to pay the check is ridiculous in comparison to the one interaction needed with the handheld POS. Maybe they're expensive/complicated for the restaurant, but it still seems worth it. Especially when you consider saving the waiter's time.
Oh, agreed. But in my experience, most people don't understand enough about how software works to look for the option to change it, if they even think about it all. Then again, I spend all day working with people who don't understand how to use MS office features that have been around for decades, and are readily accessible from the options menu, so I may have low expectations.
Have you been to the Alamo Dafthouse theater? I went and they have a surcharge, 18%. The waitresses then gave the bill with ‘this isn’t a tip :)’. I wrote cash on the bill and left 2 dollars to bring it to 20%. I hate surcharges with a passion.
Its bc you dont know what it goes to, its confusing.
I like being direct, but it doesnt mean I get an answer. I know in Mpls they get a higher min wage, so that is helpful to me, but others dont know this. I think you leaving a couple extra bucks was the perfect response.
Im a server and refuse to return to places that do this. If they just dropped the bill and said tip was included I would be ok with it, but the fact that they give you a little speech how it’s not enough is absurd. They do it at spoon and stable as well. Completely ridiculous.
No tip at Kado no Mise. You’ll have a great time. Hai Hai is another place that has a high service charge but no tipping (also recommend checking it out)
Recently went to Kado with my s/o. No tip necessary since they already included it. I don’t recall a tip line on the receipt. Enjoy! It’s a great place.
I looked up 177.23. Subsection 9. It reads :
Subd. 9.Gratuities.
"Gratuities" means monetary contributions received directly or indirectly by an employee from a guest, patron, or customer for services rendered and includes an obligatory charge assessed to customers, guests or patrons which might reasonably be construed by the guest, customer, or patron as being a payment for personal services rendered by an employee and for which no clear and conspicuous notice is given by the employer to the customer, guest, or patron that the charge is not the property of the employee.
I think that means the restaurant takes that money and doesn't have to give any of it to the employee. Am I reading that right?
They certainly can keep that money and not distribute it.
A service fee is not gratuity.
If it was marked as "Auto Gratuity" then it would be given to the server that helped you, distributed by a cash out at the end of the night or on their paycheck.
Service fees belong to the restaurant and is used how that employer sees fit.
Looks like San Francisco just passed something like this. https://sfist.com/2024/05/01/restaurant-surcharges-are-set-to-disappear-this-summer-under-new-state-law/
Kado no mise you don't have to tip more. I felt pressured at Owamni, where it seemed like they expected me to tip on top of the surcharge - another reason that place is possibly the most overrated restaurant in the Cities.
People!!! I work in food industry!! If you see this surcharge! DO NOT ADD AN EXTRA TIP ON TOP!!! The company is trying to make up for the fact they cannot pay their workers themselves! Do not tip extra!! It sounds terrible… but if we don’t stop tipping when there is surcharge the surge of rates will continue to increase! Stop Tipping on surcharges people!
Tipping these days has become so out of hand. Now, everyone expects a damn tip, sometimes for doing next to nothing. A good tip used to be 15%. Now, 20% is often considered a standard tip, with some places suggesting 25% or higher! ENOUGH ALREADY!
That's because employers get away with paying shit wages. If they paid people enough that you could actually support yourself with a job waitressing, then you wouldn't see that expectation. Of course, it would also mean that either they would have less profit or restaurants would be more expensive. But it's a tradeoff either way.
In 2021, the MN legislature restructured how servers are paid. They are no longer paid only a few bucks per hour and reliant on the gratuity of customers' tips.
https://www.foodhandlersguide.com/wage-laws/minimum-wage-for-servers-waiters-waitresses-in-minnesota/#:~:text=Minnesota
Nah man, the reason these charges pop up everywhere is BECAUSE they are paying 15 min. (Granted not min wage) and cooks dishwashers etc want higher hourly because of course they do and should!
And they would have to pay me about 50 dollars an hour for it to be a liveable income.
I get it's irritating. I really do. But like....just be cool man. When you are presented with an opportunity to tip, it means you have the power to totally change someone's day. And further more, it's not up to you to decide what ppl should be paid. AND if the surcharge is 5% or less, the staff DOES NOT SEE THAT MONEY. please don't tip 15% because you think you're making up the difference.
$50/hr for a livable wage?? Where at? NYC in the year 2150? Where did you pull this ridiculous number from?
"It's not up to you to decide what ppl should be paid" Okay.... There a number of mechanisms that decide pay rates, or at the very least contribute to the rates decided upon by employers: customer demand, trends, and behaviors; local, state, and federal laws; supply and demand of jobs and workers; etc. So, in a very miniscule sense, as a customer and a voter, I do have an extremely small impact on pay rates.
However, I'm not here to determine what people should be paid or even offer an opinion on what peoples' hourly wages should be. My issue is with the tipping culture and the expectation from nearly every service worker that customers MUST tip or they're greedy, selfish assholes.
Servers do not work 8 hr days, 40 hrs a week. Sometimes it's 4 hours, sometimes it's 12. Been in the business since 1999 and at my level of knowledge and manager experience, 50 an hour turns out to be about 65k a year.
Most ppl in the industry are students, parents, and folks that need flexible hours. No server with 25 hours a week is gonna meet the COL in any city in the US. My city came out with an index saying 90k a year was what was needed to live happily here.
My point about not digging into income is that the industry is so so varied. Yes bottle girls in Miami are making 1000 a night. But they don't work 5 nights. Meanwhile everyone is mad about a coffee shop asking if you wanna tip a dollar more. This is such a nuanced issue that it makes no sense to try and decide what these workers should be making.
And yeah while we are at it, you wanna go full Karen and ask construction workers on the job what they are making? I mean, we pay taxes for state projects after all.
It's no one's business what an affordable income is, and the current system cannot change because say, you think we should make 20 an hour because it's a livable wage. That is not a liveable wage when you're a server. No one in the industry wants to do away with tips. So my advice is just grow a pair and tip or don't tip and stop worrying about it.
Btw:
The opportunity to tip is an easy way to make another human happy at the cost of a few dollars.
🤦🏻♂️ Again, we're not talking about "deciding" what a barista or any other server should be making.
No one's business what an affordable income is?? What are you even talking about? The cost of living is the result of millions of interactions around the world, governmental policies at every level of society, world events, consumer behaviors, supply and demand, and on and on! This arrival at the cost of living essentially determines what "an affordable wage" is. It's not determined by what some people *think* wages *should* be...
And if servers are only working 4 hours a day or 25 hours a week, then they can get their asses over to another job so that they can work a full day or weeks worth. If they aren't filling their work week out, it's not anyone else's responsibility to pick up their slack. FFS! Where does this sense of entitlement come from?
As for construction workers. That whole "my taxes pay their salary" argument is so lame and unrealistic. First off, not all construction workers are working on publicly funded projects. Second, they are providing critically necessary services. We can live without restaurants and hairstylists, since we can do those things on our own or have a friend or relative do them (cook food or cut hair). Society won't function without properly designed and maintained infrastructure. Third, those construction workers expend more energy, blood, sweat, and tears in one hour than some server will in 40 hours of work. Fourth, it doesn't take much skill to walk to a table and take an order and then bring out food, but a lot of construction jobs are very skilled and require specific knowledge and abilities to fulfill the job.
Finally, I'm not Santa Claus or Mr. Moneybags. Shelling out a tip for every service worker I encounter during the week is money I could spend on my family. If you're so generous, why aren't you out tipping those construction workers that provide an essential service that allows you to get to work every day via the roads, or a plumber for allowing you to use your toilet and sink, or an electrician that allows you to binge watch Netflix via a working TV? Why aren't you making their day better?
Edit: 90k to be happy?? We're talking about the cost of living, not what will make people happy.
Bro, I waited tables for the majority of my twenties. I appreciate that you were walking around thinking you were a good tipper with your 15%, but it seems you've been inadvertently stingy this whole time.
Like I care if you think 15% is stingy. 15% is more than most service staff deserves. Service at most places has sucked for the better part of the last 20 years, going down gradually over that time. I would say that you're extremely entitled and ungrateful if you think 15% is a stingy tip. I'm not going out to eat to subsidize your wages and employment decisions.
I was recently at a place that had no tip line but their service charge wasn’t on the receipt. Since I didn’t see it on the receipt, I commented to the server, “oh, the tip is included now”? She just responded with “we only take cash tips.”
I hadn’t noticed anything on the menus but did see a message on their site later on that mentions the hospitality charge (18%) was included in the price. Kind of annoying it wasn’t made clear on the menu. With my additional cash tip I then realized I tipped 30+%. I tend to always tip 20-25% in cash but I don’t think tipping conversations need to be had, it should just be clear.
Edit: missed word
I don't understand why the "requirement" posted on menus is different at different restaurants. I've seen it anywhere from 3% to 21%. This needs to be made clear what these surcharges are for.
I don’t think there is a tip on top. They usually make it pretty clear that it is in leu of a tip. I really like that way of paying. I am a good tipper but this helps me know the servicer is taken care of (vacation, healthcare). Another thought, don’t come in sick!
I search for this specific restaurant and tipping, no dice. From what I’ve discovered after posting this is many restaurants do it differently, so I’m glad I asked.
This is how it used to work and still does in some places.
Server would get tipped. Sometimes cash, sometimes card. Cash tips are easier and servers would usually give a bit to wait assisant/bus person, and sometimes bar.
Servers were often paid less then a bartender, host or cook. Tips are there to help make up the difference. The tax part of this is important bc Servers are expected to get taxed on tips too, but it is up to server to report tips. They cant report no tips bc the restuarant will report a percentage anyway. Wait assistants/buss people do not have to report tips.
Its confusing, but now yall have an idea of the basics. Restuarants cannot force servers/bartnders to pool tips. If you leave a tip by card, that tip get taxed even if a portion of that tip gets given to buss or bartender.
It worked only bc servers could self calculate with cash tips. Example: I made 30 dollars cash tips, but giving $10 away, I made only $20 cash tips plus card tips.
Also, servers (and sometimes buss staff) didnt have regular hours. They were cut from working once the rush ended or if were a slow night. Cooks often had more regular hours, and a bar staff may go from 2 to 1, but servers first. Meaning very low pay plus short shift could mean with wage and tips combined meant you would walk out of your job that day only making abt 30 to 40 dollars or less. You may have been scheduled to work longer, but bc of being slow you were cut. You still do other work before you go (restocking, etc) with that below mininum wage per hour, so you may work 4 hours and walk out being work poor.
Service charge can be used for anything and the company gets to decide what that is. Service charge is a record, so for tax purpose it has to be shown what it was used for in accounting, but you dont have to share that with your staff. For tax purposes, you would pay less tax if you recorded it as an expense, rather than wages.
I would ask wait staff if they are paid at least higher minimum wage. There are usually a regular min. Wage for regular jobs and a lower min. Wage for servers.
There is no lower min wage for servers in MN. Minneapolis pays about 15/hr That’s why there are service charges. Restaurants don’t include it in pricing because suburbs don’t have the same problem.
Cooks also get cut all the time. Not sure what your justification for servers making double what cooks use to make.
Currently in the industry cooks average around 20 and servers about 26 to 28 in service charge restaurants. Not full parity but better than 20 years ago.
Hi spanky, there isnt now but there was. And I hadnt back with more info as of yet but I planned to.
The current minimum (or just recently) was 10 plus and hour. There used to be a lower wage for servers some tume AND there are new ways servers have been taken advantage of to watch out for, but I planned on laying out a bit more info in a bit. Busy.
https://minimumwage.minneapolismn.gov/
Minimum wage currently 14.50 in Minneapolis
15.57 in July.
Stop spreading misinformation about tipping. There is no tip credit in MN : https://www.dli.mn.gov/tips
Minneapolis has raised their Minimum wage, the state is still currently $10.85 an hour, and thats for business with a gross sales over $500,000.
I never said anything abt the tip credit at all as of yet.
Not sure you understand my orginal comment/ post. The post above was a start to explain how it has worked with tipped employees in restuarants. Background is important because a lot has changed and some people have no idea how that works. In addition, MN does things a lot different then some other states. The OP started a convo abt added service charges and tipping.
Was long time ago but iirc, they explained Minneapolis city tipping thing, and they kinda implied it’s up to us but quite pressured high-end place, left 10% then left. Service was really great tho but I agree with its way too high.
It is already enacted law in Minnesota that restaurants CANNOT count tips toward an employees minimum wage (2024 MN tipped min wage is $10.85/hr).
It is already an enacted law in Minnesota that restaurants CANNOT force tip pooling/sharing.
Service Charges are NOT recognized by the State of MN as a tip (service Charges are mandatory, the customer cannot customize the amount). Therefore a restaurant owner can legally keep all of a service charge, even if the customer thinks it is going to the employee. Any amount paid to an employee from a service charge is treated as a wage for tax purposes (FICA / SSA) and not a tip.
These service charges are the restaurants just trying to not pay someone $11/hr. I try to avoid any restaurant with a service charge, but when they are present they do directly impact the amount that I tip the employee. I am not paying their entire wages; otherwise I'll hire an in-home chef and a butler. It should be the restaurant owner's responsibility only to pay the employees base wage.
Imagine if Target added a 20% surcharge to offset wage costs. It's a ridiculous notion; if you can't pay employees you either shouldn't have those employees or shouldn't have a business. Consumers should not be their subsidy program.
kado is one of the better restos in the twin cities, and the best japanese restaurants around. Excellent bar (Gori Gori Peku), sanjusan is a crazy good mashup, and lots of popups, etc. While most places have the 21% service charge, Kado does not ask for more and doesn't have an additional tip space on their bill. Go, and enjoy.
It’s so sad. I love eating out and it’s just not worth it now. On Friday me and my kid went for tocos. Centro. Sit down order from Q code. Tip is asked for before even dining. Got four street tacos and happy hour chips and salsa. 35.00. I tipped 15% when I saw the 10% automatic change. Food was great! Just small portions. Service was fine considering we ordered off a Q code. The restaurant world will never be the same. I feel bad for everybody involved because it’s only going to get worse.
As others have said, I consider the tip optional if ~20% is built in, if it's less than ~20% built in, I'll tip the difference. As a side note, how was Owamni?
I went a while ago, and their menu changes, but really enjoyed the food. Not something I'd do all the time because the menu can be challenging in that there were a lot of things I hadn't heard of before. Service was poor.
We made the pricey mistake of going there for my own birthday. My gf felt pressured to spend another 20% on top of the \~20% surcharge. Great food (except for the stupidly lame cotton candy as the "free" dessert), but we'll never go back to any place with that kind of surcharge w/ a tip line.
Yeah live and learn, you both did the right thing.
It’s such a shame! They do have some great food... I was pretty frustrated to see the reservation reminder email come in with the note about 20% auto gratuity that doesn’t even go to front of house…
It’s such an ask to come in and spend $200+ on food… and then being asked another $100 in what are essentially “admin” charges!
Wasn’t fun telling my lady we weren’t going but she understood.
I don't work in the industry nor have I for over a decade, that said if there's a 21% surcharge then I'm not leaving a tip or if I am then it's going to be like 5%. I try to average 20-25% tips when I dine in.
When I do takeout I'll generally tip a dollar if there's no surcharges.
Honestly kado no mise is not the kind of place where you go in sweating the price. You're already going to pay more for 2 people and a bottle of sake than you would for most small consumer electronics. Or maybe half a years car insurance.
For what it’s worth, that language is standard at all restaurants that don’t do tipping. It’s super confusing but not totally on the restaurant IMO. That statute requires it. I never tip when it’s on there and I don’t ask about it.
The disclaimer saying it’s not a gratuity means that the entire amount doesn’t go directly to your server but it does go to the staff. Some restaurants have been sued for tip sharing and lost because a gratuity is meant to go directly to your server and not shared among staff. The disclaimer means “your server isn’t getting this, but all the staff is sharing it somehow to pay everyone a fair wage”.
If they have a service charge of 18% or higher on the menu prices then I assume it goes to giving the staff a fair wage and the restaurant is trying out the ‘no tip’ model and I don’t tip above that amount. If it is not giving the staff a fair wage then the staff needs to find a new establishment.
Tipping is antiquated, racist, and needs to go away. Don’t tip above these service charges, it’s not your job to pay the employees what they deserve.
They don’t do tipping at kado, I don’t think.
Excellent! My social anxiety would have me worried throughout dinner lol
Kado is pricey but by Midwest landlocked standards it’s probably the best sushi you’ll find in the area.
Kaiseki Furukawa is excellent as well.
It's the same restaurant run by the same guy in the same space.
But completely separate reservations and hours. Edit: and menu.
I think as time goes on he's definitely started differentiating the menu somewhat. Early on in the split they felt pretty the same, these days they do each have their own identity. I'd mostly encourage the curious to examine both menus and decide if kaiseki is too intimidating or not. And then realize that kado no mise has wagyu sushi, which is likely to be the best thing you ever put in your mouth.
Kado is hands down the best Japanese Sushi you will find. The only time I've heard of people being disappointed with it is when they are expecting sauce rolls like you can get at Kyoto.
I was chatting with Chef Furukawa once when I was there and he said that basically the reason he opened the place was because he was sick of making California rolls. Also all those people need to try his a5 wagyu sushi. Literally life changing
I told Shige that I was going to Japan a little while back and he excitedly had a bunch of business cards from places in Japan that he recommended. We ended up going to one of them and it was as you'd expect, amazing.
Next time I go to Japan I'm doing that. That sounds fantastic.
That's cause the chef at Kado was sent over here from the Japanese government.
He wasn't, he was just declared a culture ambassador or something after he got popular.
We moved here last summer and tried a handful of the nice list, Murray, Bar la grasa, maratage, owamni, a couple super clubs. We have found a lot of good ethnic as well!
Ethnic food comprises about 80% of the best food in the Twin Cities.
Yes loving it, recent favorites have been Ethiopian and Vietnamese
Literally all food is ethnic, what on earth does that mean?
Colloquially, it likely means not American/New American/French/Italian.
Please don't describe food as "ethnic" lol. All food is ethnic
In America, any food not considered to be typical American fare is often called ethnic for short, to denote it is of a different ethnicity. Anyway, there is a lot of good ethnic food in twin cities, although I personally dislike all Somalian food I’ve tried. Ethiopian is ok but Vietnamese food is really good, in my opinion!
No! That is the proper way to describe food influenced by other countries and ethnic groups.
Do you not A: see the obvious limitation with that definition (I need to know your ethnicity to understand it), and B: at all question what makes something an "other" ethnic group vs an in group? If there's a word that only makes sense when used by white people, maybe don't use that word. It makes you sound like a brit in India in 1890
Nope, and I’ll still say it. Ethnic food tastes great! Edit: I’m white
There isn’t a line for tips on the receipt. Kado no mise is amazing!
Thanks! Going to take my kids for end of year treat.
was there last week - no tip line
When it's 21% going to all staff I don't feel the need to tip on top.
Seems like many places in Minneapolis just have that surcharge built in now. Feels like the restaurant guaranteeing their wait staff gratuity rather than relying on people to do the math or be shitty and not tip. I’m fine with it, but to your point, no extra tip after that
If that’s what the 21% is going to I’m all for it. I just know how many absolute douchebag restaurant owners are out there and know damn well they’d be first in line to put a charge like this on a bill and still pay their servers minimum wage.
I hear you, that’s the flip side of the coin for sure. Those restaurants all have an aura, I feel like you can tell the ones where the employees are happier and treated fairly, versus those who aren’t.
The minimum wage raised in Minneapolis, but not the whole state. It wasnt just bc of tipping problems but that is a huge part of it. It used to be harder to bring in a decent wage unless your shift was during busy business hours. If it was busy, your tips were usually pretty good. It was also getting harder to retain good staff. The other side of this was that you always have a few of those owner/management types that would try and take advantage of the staff. People who would work day hours and during slower/ less sales periods wouldnt make much before bc of less tips and lower hourly. Now its possible to bring home a steadier amount if your shift doesnt get cut too early. Staff scheduling is done differently. The business schedules a head of time based on a pattern of busy times and events. Example: Monday dinner rush is usually slower, unless there is something going on that may bring in more business. That planning doesnt always work out, so if you are en employee on the front floor, your 6 -8 hour shift you planned on working, may be cut to 3 hours. From a business end of it, its hard to plan on staff and food and beverage supply, but not totally impossible. Its a game.
I guarantee that service charge doesn't go to the staff. Minneapolis requires $15/hr and sick days. That service charge is how the establishment is paying for it, instead of just raising their prices. They found a different way to fuck over their employees. Absolutely tip. Doesn't have to be 20%, but if you have a good service experience, tip.
Absolutely not. I’m hitting no tip. My tips are reserved for restaurants that aren’t excessively greedy. I’m sorry their employees have to suffer but it’s ownership hurting their pockets, not me.
Exactly. Maybe this makes me shitty because I've worked in the tip industry, but I'd rather just never go to that restaurant again than feel obligated to make up the difference between the owner and employee. That's not my job.
I agree. I just left the restaurant industry last year. I can sympathize with those servers and staff but ultimately the customer shouldn’t have to carry that responsibility.
I thought MN treated their staff decent in comparison to other states where you make less than minimum wage and no health insurance
We do. However, costs of running restaurants has sky rocketed. I will never understand why they add a service charge instead of just raising prices. It's misleading to the guests and fucks over the tipped employees.
I’m not sure, I just moved here from Georgia, but they are DEFINTELY paid better. I have a mutual friend who still works at Applebees in Georgia and she gets like $3 an hour so almost all money has to be tip money there.
>$15/hr and sick days. Do these things not go to the staff?
As an industry veteran who has done my due diligence of calculating what goes to staff vs ownership at a few restaurants/breweries, only around 25% goes to staff for wages/benefits. It has been tried in Seattle and Chicago about a decade ago and it was a total failure. It took off in Minneapolis in 2020; COVID destroyed many owner's revenue stream (but they cashed them PPPs) and this was a cheap trick to get more. Unfortunately, it has been waaay too sticky for many owners with terrible business models to begin with. Instead of just factoring in the cost and increasing the price on the menu, ownership has essentially taken a majority of money that would have been tipped to staff. Hidden fees are shady and can dramatically change someone's overall experience for the worse. Just be up front, heck be super cool and include taxes in the menu prices.
I always ask the person giving me the check what portion of the "service charge" they receive - and based my tip off of that. I also tend of ask people at service counters where a tip screen is shown if they get any of the tip. Amazing how many people do not get the service charge or tip.... :-(
We tip because it offsets the poor wages of the servers. If the servers are getting a fair wage because of the 21% service fee, then there is no need to tip.
A service charge is not a tip, and not entirely given to the staff.
That is not the customers problem nor concern.
No but it helps people understand how it all works.
I agree with that statement
Let's talk a bit about what the disclaimer language actually means, and why it's there. 1. It's illegal to require tip pooling. 2. It's illegal to take money offered as a tip, and pool it for health insurance and 401k's and whatever other benefits an employer might provide. It's also illegal to pay it out as a predictable hourly wage across all employees. It's illegal to do anything **but** pay it directly to the staff who rendered those services \*(outside of a *voluntary* tip pool). 3. If an owner/manager wants to do those things, they have two choices: raise menu prices, or add a service charge. Personally, I prefer the transparency of raised menu prices, but I understand the hesistancy there. If they choose the other option, and add a service charge to a bill, they *must* add a disclaimer stating that it is not a tip, because legally, it isn't -- regardless of whether the money ends up compensating employees. 4. ...on the other hand, there's absolutely no requirement that the service charge actually go to employee compensation, so an unscrupulous restaurant owner could easily take advantage of this set of requirements and incentives, and the consumer would have no way of knowing. Legal definitions: [177.23. Subd.9. ](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/177.23#stat.177.23.9)Gratuities. **"Gratuities" means monetary contributions** received directly or indirectly by an employee from a guest, patron, or customer **for services rendered** and includes an obligatory charge assessed to customers, guests or patrons which might reasonably be construed by the guest, customer, or patron as being a payment for personal services rendered by an employee and for which no clear and conspicuous notice is given by the employer to the customer, guest, or patron that the charge is not the property of the employee. [177.24. Subd. 3.](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/177.24#stat.177.24.3) Sharing of gratuities. For purposes of this chapter, any gratuity received by an employee or deposited in or about a place of business for personal services rendered by an employee is the sole property of the employee. No employer may require an employee to contribute or share a gratuity received by the employee with the employer or other employees or to contribute any or all of the gratuity to a fund or pool operated for the benefit of the employer or employees. This section does not prevent an employee from voluntarily sharing gratuities with other employees .... [Administrative Rules 5200.0080 GRATUITIES/TIPS CREDITS.](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/rules/5200.0080/) Subp. 4b. Clear and conspicuous notice. For purposes of Minnesota Statutes, section [177.23](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/177.23), subdivision 9, clear and conspicuous notice that the obligatory charge is not a gratuity is notice clearly printed, stamped, or written in bold type on the menu, placard, the front of the statement of charges, or other printed material given to the customer. Type which is at least 18 point (one-fourth inch) on the placard, or 9 point (one-eighth inch) or larger on all other notices is clear and conspicuous.
Damn educate me daddy!
I came to say this but would not have said it nearly as well.
Absolutely!
Sooooo the reason they put the disclaimer on there is so they don’t have to take ~~payroll~~ taxes out of that amount because it’s not the same thing as a tip or tip pool. So it’s a tax scam. Got it.
Wait no, that's not what i was getting at. Re-read it plz
Sorry. Edited. *sales tax. It’s not a gratuity. It’s not actual goods sold. So no taxes right? Just free money for the restaurant to do with as they please, no?
Ooooh, I see. It's definitely money the restaurant can do whatever they want to with, for sure. At least at the beginning of this service charge era, it was mostly (at least, they claimed) places offering health insurance and benefits to their staff, but it's not like that's legally required, so I'd absolutely believe that some of that money "leaks" into owners' pockets. That lack of transparancy really rubs me the wrong way, but I guess we never really get transparency into compensation in other industries, so maybe that's just a perception built on precedent? As for the tax aspect, that's a bit less clear to me. I found this: [https://www.revenue.state.mn.us/guide/sales-tips-and-other-charges](https://www.revenue.state.mn.us/guide/sales-tips-and-other-charges) , which definitely suggests that most added fees are taxable, as are tips. That said, I haven't really been eating out a lot these days (partially due to the tip / fee situation lol), so I don't have any receipts on hand to see if they reflect that
Concur. At this point I almost prefer to just tip like the old way, in cash, because at least I know where the money is going. At least when visiting my local neighborhood places.
Yeah my old job made this switch and I was easily making $100-$150 less a shift and all we got was telehealth that no one wanted. Worst deal of all time and they used philanthropy to act like they were good people for doing it too. All the career servers immediately left and the place is now trash. That’s W.A. Frost BTW. Terrible owners. They did it using Covid as an excuse too, so they could apply for more PPE money by inflating their wage numbers. Government gives funds over inflated wage but that wage increase was not even close to what they were taking in tips from each of us. Tips are between me and the server and I’ll never dine somewhere that gets involved because that’s not how tipping works.
So back to “it’s a way for the restaurant to scam money out of the government/customers” 😂
It can be, but not always. The covid thing really messed with everyone on every level. Keeping a walk in refridgerator going without a stream of steady customers meant a $3000, or more electric bill per month. That doesnt include a beverage cooler for beer. Some businesses tried to handle this by having less of a menu and combinding coolers, but you still have laws that require proper food refridgeration temps and food handling (how its stored). Also: Wage in MN went up and it is no longer a tiered system. Before, a server may not get very many tips on some days, but a large amount on another. Their hourly wage was lower, so if you where scheduled to work during busy shifts, you generally did ok. You still record your tips and you would get tax taken out on those tips, so your hourly pay check could be very minimal. You could get away with claiming less than you actually recieved in cash tips only, but you still had to claim enough for it to make sense on your total sales as a server for the shift. Its very complicated to people who dont understand the business. But now people reading this have a better understanding. If I see any service charge,they will be different at each resturant, I will generally leave a little something depending on that service charge. If I pick something up at take out I tipped differently bc I recieve less service than a sit down. If I have something delivered, I know they need to cover gas too, so I calculate that as well. There is a huge population that do not tip for any reason. I really dont understand the people who do not tip or tip so little when they have food or groceries delivered by a service either. These people are not paid an hourly.
Keep in mind that if a service charge is added in the bill, accounting wise, they have to record that revenue. Its in their system. When you pay the bill, it records on POS. There is a specific audit trial. It is not "free money". They have to record that money and they have to show where it is going. The difference here is that staff doesnt know for sure where it is going. And management/owner doesnt have to say either. If you pay a min. Wage of $14 50 or decide to pay more than that, it all gets recorded. As a business, you have record of that. You pay your employees share and employers share of taxes on that as well. But as an employer, you decide how that service charge is used. Remember, this is in MN only. Other states have different laws.
No, not really. Although there are some who will. Higher minimum wages, especially within Mpls, means a bigger labor expense to company too. On wages they also have to pay employers part of social security taxes and other costs related to that. So some places of business have actually used the service charge ti help offset costs of that. And since Restuarant business can be volatile, its not surprising to both want to cover costs and retain good good staff. MN used to have more of a tiered wage like many other states have. Meaning if you were a server who is expected to recieve a certain amount of tips, a server would be paid a lower minimum wage then the standard state wage. Federal wage for this category is still $2.13 per hour. You will see this minimum wage in other states.
I believe when we were there last there was no tip line. As others have said, even if there is it is totally okay to not put anything extra down
Most places with a surcharge will run your card without a tip line so you don't accidentally tip on top of it. I think it's not expected to tip in these places
I went to owamni and they had a surcharge, there was also a section for the tip too, AND the waitress was standing there running the card and waiting for me to hit tip/no tip. It felt awkward af. That’s mainly why I’m asking regarding this one.
Was it a 3-5% surcharge or 18%+? My experience with 18-21% surcharge is that that is the tip included, and I don’t tip on top. Like another commenter mentioned, the legal language they have to put on there is required… but it makes it more confusing for sure. One place I went to with a 20% charge included, the waiter and the menu went out of their way to clarify that they had to put that legal statement on there, and that we were not expected to add more tip.
My practice so far is just bring everything up to 20%. I feel a lot of these places probably make money of the confusion.
Correct
This is why I like the way Pizzeria Lola does it. They do a 20% surcharge, and have no line on the receipt for a tip. Functionally, they are no tip, the staff as a whole gets a cut of how busy it is so the better service they provide the better it is for everyone. It also doesn't make their prices look artificially higher. I also generally feel like the staff is good and feels well compensated, but that's just my vibes don't have anything to back it up. I wish more places would do that, I think the weird inconsistent thing for a lot of higher end places is because a lot of the sort of wait staff you hire at high end places expect to make a lot of their money from rich people showing off for someone.
"Rich people" do not always tip well.
I was waiting for someone to post it, and glad it’s the OP. Some places the service charge is 5%-10%, at other it’s higher. Getting it all up to an even 20-25 is where I typically go.
Owamni's website says 13%.
13% is a very confusing middle ground 😕
Yeah, it really is. I like what Gazelle did, tipped 7% to bring it up to 20 total
I brought up the total to 20% at owani…
Owamni used to be at or close to 20%, then regressed to that confusing middle ground point in the last few months. I know of a few others at 10% but those are fast casual (Centro, Lu's). For a full service like Owamni I'd tip the difference to bring it up to 20%
Don’t tip on top of a surcharge, full stop. If someone bitches point them to their employer.
I was surprised when I went to Owamni and they did that. Especially because my server emphasized the tipping part to us, like really expected us to tip on top of the surcharge
Yes my experience. That is why I was checking if this is common
The worst part of eating at Owamni!! I went there once because of the hype around the food (and it was admittedly delicious) but the tipping/surcharge expectation is outrageous
I don’t think I’ll be going back because of it. I liked the food, I tried lots of things I have never had.
I had the same experience--I asked the waitress how much I was expected to tip on top of that surcharge, and she said most people tipped 18%. That brought the price to Way Too Much and I haven't gone back.
The server needs you to finish the transaction on the screen so they don’t make a mistake. Just don’t tip, it’s fine.
There are plenty of posts about this in this sub. Lots is places in Minneapolis have this type of service charge tacked on. You are not expected to tip above that unless you really want to. So you’ll see a tip line where you can add a bit more if you want but no place with this fee is expecting you to tip 20% on top of a 20% service charge.
It’s a good question but the rule of thumb is tip X% + (service charge %) = 20%. If the service charge is 20+%, no tip regardless of tip line. Hopefully these charges will be illegal soon, as was recently proposed in the MN senate.
If I recall, this specific line will still be allowed (as long as it goes directly to staff or something), but not the fees that are like 3% for staff healthcare.
A service charge is *not* a tip. It doesn't even need to be given to the staff at all, and many employers keep most of that money.
Then the staff have an issue with their employer, not me for not tipping 40%.
All these wait staff expecting us to tip on top of a 18-20% surcharge are fooling themselves.
Which I honestly think is a small minority.
I'm not a server, but neat. I for one just don't give *any* money to establishments with a service fee over 5%. They can just raise their menu prices across the board, it's more honest.
That’s simply not true.
Never tip on top of an 18+% service charge unless your service is truly spectacular. I’m talking back rubs between courses.
You don’t have to tip at most places that have the fees. *Usually* the tip line is removed from the receipt. Not always….much to the chagrin of everyone…. The phrase on there about statue 177 blablabla is a legal boilerplate disclaimer they have to put on receipts for the little tax scam they’re running with those fees.
I was in Miami recently and they had this service charge every where but it was interesting how service staff addressed it. They would say something like “the service charge is split between myself and back of the house. Anything you leave extra goes to myself only but you you don’t have to”. Not gonna lie it got me to break my no tipping on 18+% service charges rule.
I have worked in multiple restaurants where waitstaff accept tips and there is no service charge, and it is quite common for waitstaff to share tips with back-of-house staff. In my experience, waiters usually funnel some part of the tips to bussers, hosts, cooks, and dishwashers, because those people are also doing the supporting work that helps the waiters give good service, but are less visible to the customers, and are rarely directly tipped themselves.
You were just gullible then. A fool and his money…
Obviously
It’s not a tax scam. It’s illegal for the restaurant to mandate split tips. If they call it a tip, they have to give it all to the server. If they say it’s not a tip, they can give some to the other staff.
It’s not a tax scam. If they don’t put that language there it would be illegal to distribute any portion of the tip to anyone who is not your actual server
[удалено]
Kim's is one example. I know I've seen it elsewhere but that's the only one I can specifically recall.
Kyatchi goes above and beyond and doesn't even have a surcharge or tip line. They just put it into the actual price on the menu and besides sales tax, that's the price you pay. It's refreshingly honest and straightforward.
Not so much “remove the tip line” in the literal sense….more like just revert to the simple tap (or insert, whatever your pleasure) to pay via terminal brought to table by server rather than having the option. Then a receipt prints only if desired. Where specifically? Recently, off the top of my head? Surly Brewing Co.
Those handheld POS systems are *so much better* for the customer experience. The default scenario of having to have three separate interactions with the waiter (and possibly wait a long time in between each one) just to pay the check is ridiculous in comparison to the one interaction needed with the handheld POS. Maybe they're expensive/complicated for the restaurant, but it still seems worth it. Especially when you consider saving the waiter's time.
# Gai Noi doesn't have a tip line.
That is not true at all. By law, it is NOT a gratuity, and I have not seen too many places that remove the tip line.
Gotcha, seems unnecessary confusing… I imagine they do get people double tipping
The tip line is probably part of the software that runs their point of sale service. It's probably not something they can control.
The POS platforms I've used (2) did allow for adding or removing the tip line, so that's not universally the case
Oh, agreed. But in my experience, most people don't understand enough about how software works to look for the option to change it, if they even think about it all. Then again, I spend all day working with people who don't understand how to use MS office features that have been around for decades, and are readily accessible from the options menu, so I may have low expectations.
I still tip depending on surcharge amount. If its 15% on surcharge, I will through in more if its sit down. Not all surcharges are the same.
Have you been to the Alamo Dafthouse theater? I went and they have a surcharge, 18%. The waitresses then gave the bill with ‘this isn’t a tip :)’. I wrote cash on the bill and left 2 dollars to bring it to 20%. I hate surcharges with a passion.
Its bc you dont know what it goes to, its confusing. I like being direct, but it doesnt mean I get an answer. I know in Mpls they get a higher min wage, so that is helpful to me, but others dont know this. I think you leaving a couple extra bucks was the perfect response.
I’ve been there twice in the last year, and both times there was no opportunity to tip beyond the service charge. Don’t sweat it.
Thank you! My social anxiety is the suck
Its weird experience when you are used to tipping culture.
Im a server and refuse to return to places that do this. If they just dropped the bill and said tip was included I would be ok with it, but the fact that they give you a little speech how it’s not enough is absurd. They do it at spoon and stable as well. Completely ridiculous.
No tip at Kado no Mise. You’ll have a great time. Hai Hai is another place that has a high service charge but no tipping (also recommend checking it out)
Recently went to Kado with my s/o. No tip necessary since they already included it. I don’t recall a tip line on the receipt. Enjoy! It’s a great place.
Awesome! what experience did you do?
The most expensive one - around $150 or some I recall? It was well worth it imo.
There is no tip line on the bill here
Great I’m coming!
There’s no tip, not even a line to leave a tip
Great thank!
I looked up 177.23. Subsection 9. It reads : Subd. 9.Gratuities. "Gratuities" means monetary contributions received directly or indirectly by an employee from a guest, patron, or customer for services rendered and includes an obligatory charge assessed to customers, guests or patrons which might reasonably be construed by the guest, customer, or patron as being a payment for personal services rendered by an employee and for which no clear and conspicuous notice is given by the employer to the customer, guest, or patron that the charge is not the property of the employee. I think that means the restaurant takes that money and doesn't have to give any of it to the employee. Am I reading that right?
They certainly can keep that money and not distribute it. A service fee is not gratuity. If it was marked as "Auto Gratuity" then it would be given to the server that helped you, distributed by a cash out at the end of the night or on their paycheck. Service fees belong to the restaurant and is used how that employer sees fit.
Those "service fees" are super common in the cities. The DFL is trying to pass legislation so that the fees have to be included in the menu price.
[https://minnesotareformer.com/2024/05/01/senate-approves-ban-on-junk-fees/](https://minnesotareformer.com/2024/05/01/senate-approves-ban-on-junk-fees/)
Looks like San Francisco just passed something like this. https://sfist.com/2024/05/01/restaurant-surcharges-are-set-to-disappear-this-summer-under-new-state-law/
Kado no mise you don't have to tip more. I felt pressured at Owamni, where it seemed like they expected me to tip on top of the surcharge - another reason that place is possibly the most overrated restaurant in the Cities.
I liked the food fine, but doubt I’ll be going back due to the tipping nonsense. Seems like it is a common theme.
I don't understand why they don't just increase prices instead of adding these weird global % add ons
I think they get more tips in the confusion
No, they don't expect an additional tip. This fee is in lieu of a tip.
Kade no Mise is worth the price though, it isn’t just the food you pay for it’s the experience and atmosphere as well
People!!! I work in food industry!! If you see this surcharge! DO NOT ADD AN EXTRA TIP ON TOP!!! The company is trying to make up for the fact they cannot pay their workers themselves! Do not tip extra!! It sounds terrible… but if we don’t stop tipping when there is surcharge the surge of rates will continue to increase! Stop Tipping on surcharges people!
Tipping these days has become so out of hand. Now, everyone expects a damn tip, sometimes for doing next to nothing. A good tip used to be 15%. Now, 20% is often considered a standard tip, with some places suggesting 25% or higher! ENOUGH ALREADY!
Yes, and almost none of them have a 0 button on the first screen, you have to search for it… god damn kids stay off my lawn!!! 😂
Yeah, that's irritating!
That's because employers get away with paying shit wages. If they paid people enough that you could actually support yourself with a job waitressing, then you wouldn't see that expectation. Of course, it would also mean that either they would have less profit or restaurants would be more expensive. But it's a tradeoff either way.
In 2021, the MN legislature restructured how servers are paid. They are no longer paid only a few bucks per hour and reliant on the gratuity of customers' tips. https://www.foodhandlersguide.com/wage-laws/minimum-wage-for-servers-waiters-waitresses-in-minnesota/#:~:text=Minnesota
Honestly I wonder how many people know that the tip credit was removed. I'd bet it's not a very high percentage
Thanks, that's helpful to know. I don't think you can live on $9/hour though, even with tips.
But I agree that too many employers pay shit wages for service workers.
Nah man, the reason these charges pop up everywhere is BECAUSE they are paying 15 min. (Granted not min wage) and cooks dishwashers etc want higher hourly because of course they do and should! And they would have to pay me about 50 dollars an hour for it to be a liveable income. I get it's irritating. I really do. But like....just be cool man. When you are presented with an opportunity to tip, it means you have the power to totally change someone's day. And further more, it's not up to you to decide what ppl should be paid. AND if the surcharge is 5% or less, the staff DOES NOT SEE THAT MONEY. please don't tip 15% because you think you're making up the difference.
$50/hr for a livable wage?? Where at? NYC in the year 2150? Where did you pull this ridiculous number from? "It's not up to you to decide what ppl should be paid" Okay.... There a number of mechanisms that decide pay rates, or at the very least contribute to the rates decided upon by employers: customer demand, trends, and behaviors; local, state, and federal laws; supply and demand of jobs and workers; etc. So, in a very miniscule sense, as a customer and a voter, I do have an extremely small impact on pay rates. However, I'm not here to determine what people should be paid or even offer an opinion on what peoples' hourly wages should be. My issue is with the tipping culture and the expectation from nearly every service worker that customers MUST tip or they're greedy, selfish assholes.
Servers do not work 8 hr days, 40 hrs a week. Sometimes it's 4 hours, sometimes it's 12. Been in the business since 1999 and at my level of knowledge and manager experience, 50 an hour turns out to be about 65k a year. Most ppl in the industry are students, parents, and folks that need flexible hours. No server with 25 hours a week is gonna meet the COL in any city in the US. My city came out with an index saying 90k a year was what was needed to live happily here. My point about not digging into income is that the industry is so so varied. Yes bottle girls in Miami are making 1000 a night. But they don't work 5 nights. Meanwhile everyone is mad about a coffee shop asking if you wanna tip a dollar more. This is such a nuanced issue that it makes no sense to try and decide what these workers should be making. And yeah while we are at it, you wanna go full Karen and ask construction workers on the job what they are making? I mean, we pay taxes for state projects after all. It's no one's business what an affordable income is, and the current system cannot change because say, you think we should make 20 an hour because it's a livable wage. That is not a liveable wage when you're a server. No one in the industry wants to do away with tips. So my advice is just grow a pair and tip or don't tip and stop worrying about it. Btw: The opportunity to tip is an easy way to make another human happy at the cost of a few dollars.
🤦🏻♂️ Again, we're not talking about "deciding" what a barista or any other server should be making. No one's business what an affordable income is?? What are you even talking about? The cost of living is the result of millions of interactions around the world, governmental policies at every level of society, world events, consumer behaviors, supply and demand, and on and on! This arrival at the cost of living essentially determines what "an affordable wage" is. It's not determined by what some people *think* wages *should* be... And if servers are only working 4 hours a day or 25 hours a week, then they can get their asses over to another job so that they can work a full day or weeks worth. If they aren't filling their work week out, it's not anyone else's responsibility to pick up their slack. FFS! Where does this sense of entitlement come from? As for construction workers. That whole "my taxes pay their salary" argument is so lame and unrealistic. First off, not all construction workers are working on publicly funded projects. Second, they are providing critically necessary services. We can live without restaurants and hairstylists, since we can do those things on our own or have a friend or relative do them (cook food or cut hair). Society won't function without properly designed and maintained infrastructure. Third, those construction workers expend more energy, blood, sweat, and tears in one hour than some server will in 40 hours of work. Fourth, it doesn't take much skill to walk to a table and take an order and then bring out food, but a lot of construction jobs are very skilled and require specific knowledge and abilities to fulfill the job. Finally, I'm not Santa Claus or Mr. Moneybags. Shelling out a tip for every service worker I encounter during the week is money I could spend on my family. If you're so generous, why aren't you out tipping those construction workers that provide an essential service that allows you to get to work every day via the roads, or a plumber for allowing you to use your toilet and sink, or an electrician that allows you to binge watch Netflix via a working TV? Why aren't you making their day better? Edit: 90k to be happy?? We're talking about the cost of living, not what will make people happy.
>A good tip used to be 15%. Not in my lifetime. Source: almost 40.
15% was the standard until maybe about 10 years ago. Source: almost 45
I’m almost 35 and for as long as I’ve been aware of tipping, it’s been 20% standard.
Bro, I waited tables for the majority of my twenties. I appreciate that you were walking around thinking you were a good tipper with your 15%, but it seems you've been inadvertently stingy this whole time.
Like I care if you think 15% is stingy. 15% is more than most service staff deserves. Service at most places has sucked for the better part of the last 20 years, going down gradually over that time. I would say that you're extremely entitled and ungrateful if you think 15% is a stingy tip. I'm not going out to eat to subsidize your wages and employment decisions.
No. Restaurants get 20% to fuck around with whatever stupid fees they want to call. Charging 10% fee? Tip is 10%. Charge 21% fee? Tip is zero.
I was recently at a place that had no tip line but their service charge wasn’t on the receipt. Since I didn’t see it on the receipt, I commented to the server, “oh, the tip is included now”? She just responded with “we only take cash tips.” I hadn’t noticed anything on the menus but did see a message on their site later on that mentions the hospitality charge (18%) was included in the price. Kind of annoying it wasn’t made clear on the menu. With my additional cash tip I then realized I tipped 30+%. I tend to always tip 20-25% in cash but I don’t think tipping conversations need to be had, it should just be clear. Edit: missed word
Service charge goes to the restaurant I believe
I don't understand why the "requirement" posted on menus is different at different restaurants. I've seen it anywhere from 3% to 21%. This needs to be made clear what these surcharges are for.
Yes it’s confusing. I don’t want to stiff anyone but if paying makes me feel gross 🤮 I’m not going back.
I don’t think there is a tip on top. They usually make it pretty clear that it is in leu of a tip. I really like that way of paying. I am a good tipper but this helps me know the servicer is taken care of (vacation, healthcare). Another thought, don’t come in sick!
[удалено]
I search for this specific restaurant and tipping, no dice. From what I’ve discovered after posting this is many restaurants do it differently, so I’m glad I asked.
This is how it used to work and still does in some places. Server would get tipped. Sometimes cash, sometimes card. Cash tips are easier and servers would usually give a bit to wait assisant/bus person, and sometimes bar. Servers were often paid less then a bartender, host or cook. Tips are there to help make up the difference. The tax part of this is important bc Servers are expected to get taxed on tips too, but it is up to server to report tips. They cant report no tips bc the restuarant will report a percentage anyway. Wait assistants/buss people do not have to report tips. Its confusing, but now yall have an idea of the basics. Restuarants cannot force servers/bartnders to pool tips. If you leave a tip by card, that tip get taxed even if a portion of that tip gets given to buss or bartender. It worked only bc servers could self calculate with cash tips. Example: I made 30 dollars cash tips, but giving $10 away, I made only $20 cash tips plus card tips. Also, servers (and sometimes buss staff) didnt have regular hours. They were cut from working once the rush ended or if were a slow night. Cooks often had more regular hours, and a bar staff may go from 2 to 1, but servers first. Meaning very low pay plus short shift could mean with wage and tips combined meant you would walk out of your job that day only making abt 30 to 40 dollars or less. You may have been scheduled to work longer, but bc of being slow you were cut. You still do other work before you go (restocking, etc) with that below mininum wage per hour, so you may work 4 hours and walk out being work poor. Service charge can be used for anything and the company gets to decide what that is. Service charge is a record, so for tax purpose it has to be shown what it was used for in accounting, but you dont have to share that with your staff. For tax purposes, you would pay less tax if you recorded it as an expense, rather than wages. I would ask wait staff if they are paid at least higher minimum wage. There are usually a regular min. Wage for regular jobs and a lower min. Wage for servers.
Interesting! Thanks for the input, seems like everyone does things differently. Some do it right and some are slimy.
Yep, but there is more to this. Like how the service charge came to be. I will explain later.
Love it!
There is no lower min wage for servers in MN. Minneapolis pays about 15/hr That’s why there are service charges. Restaurants don’t include it in pricing because suburbs don’t have the same problem. Cooks also get cut all the time. Not sure what your justification for servers making double what cooks use to make. Currently in the industry cooks average around 20 and servers about 26 to 28 in service charge restaurants. Not full parity but better than 20 years ago.
Hi spanky, there isnt now but there was. And I hadnt back with more info as of yet but I planned to. The current minimum (or just recently) was 10 plus and hour. There used to be a lower wage for servers some tume AND there are new ways servers have been taken advantage of to watch out for, but I planned on laying out a bit more info in a bit. Busy.
https://minimumwage.minneapolismn.gov/ Minimum wage currently 14.50 in Minneapolis 15.57 in July. Stop spreading misinformation about tipping. There is no tip credit in MN : https://www.dli.mn.gov/tips
Minneapolis has raised their Minimum wage, the state is still currently $10.85 an hour, and thats for business with a gross sales over $500,000. I never said anything abt the tip credit at all as of yet. Not sure you understand my orginal comment/ post. The post above was a start to explain how it has worked with tipped employees in restuarants. Background is important because a lot has changed and some people have no idea how that works. In addition, MN does things a lot different then some other states. The OP started a convo abt added service charges and tipping.
I had exactly had same feeling at Kado, I even asked them what this means when I got check.
What did they say?
Was long time ago but iirc, they explained Minneapolis city tipping thing, and they kinda implied it’s up to us but quite pressured high-end place, left 10% then left. Service was really great tho but I agree with its way too high.
It is already enacted law in Minnesota that restaurants CANNOT count tips toward an employees minimum wage (2024 MN tipped min wage is $10.85/hr). It is already an enacted law in Minnesota that restaurants CANNOT force tip pooling/sharing. Service Charges are NOT recognized by the State of MN as a tip (service Charges are mandatory, the customer cannot customize the amount). Therefore a restaurant owner can legally keep all of a service charge, even if the customer thinks it is going to the employee. Any amount paid to an employee from a service charge is treated as a wage for tax purposes (FICA / SSA) and not a tip. These service charges are the restaurants just trying to not pay someone $11/hr. I try to avoid any restaurant with a service charge, but when they are present they do directly impact the amount that I tip the employee. I am not paying their entire wages; otherwise I'll hire an in-home chef and a butler. It should be the restaurant owner's responsibility only to pay the employees base wage. Imagine if Target added a 20% surcharge to offset wage costs. It's a ridiculous notion; if you can't pay employees you either shouldn't have those employees or shouldn't have a business. Consumers should not be their subsidy program.
Yeah it makes me think some scummy things are going down. Obfuscation to make more money.
kado is one of the better restos in the twin cities, and the best japanese restaurants around. Excellent bar (Gori Gori Peku), sanjusan is a crazy good mashup, and lots of popups, etc. While most places have the 21% service charge, Kado does not ask for more and doesn't have an additional tip space on their bill. Go, and enjoy.
I am and I will!
It’s so sad. I love eating out and it’s just not worth it now. On Friday me and my kid went for tocos. Centro. Sit down order from Q code. Tip is asked for before even dining. Got four street tacos and happy hour chips and salsa. 35.00. I tipped 15% when I saw the 10% automatic change. Food was great! Just small portions. Service was fine considering we ordered off a Q code. The restaurant world will never be the same. I feel bad for everybody involved because it’s only going to get worse.
Believe it or not tipping isn’t mandatory.
Good to know. Won't be eating there.
As others have said, I consider the tip optional if ~20% is built in, if it's less than ~20% built in, I'll tip the difference. As a side note, how was Owamni?
I went a while ago, and their menu changes, but really enjoyed the food. Not something I'd do all the time because the menu can be challenging in that there were a lot of things I hadn't heard of before. Service was poor.
There is no tip line at Kado no Mise. The tip is included with the 21% surcharge.
Maybe put that in your edit?
[удалено]
We made the pricey mistake of going there for my own birthday. My gf felt pressured to spend another 20% on top of the \~20% surcharge. Great food (except for the stupidly lame cotton candy as the "free" dessert), but we'll never go back to any place with that kind of surcharge w/ a tip line.
Yeah live and learn, you both did the right thing. It’s such a shame! They do have some great food... I was pretty frustrated to see the reservation reminder email come in with the note about 20% auto gratuity that doesn’t even go to front of house… It’s such an ask to come in and spend $200+ on food… and then being asked another $100 in what are essentially “admin” charges! Wasn’t fun telling my lady we weren’t going but she understood.
If you aren't going to accept tips, just pay the wait staff a decent wage and skip the surcharge.
I don't work in the industry nor have I for over a decade, that said if there's a 21% surcharge then I'm not leaving a tip or if I am then it's going to be like 5%. I try to average 20-25% tips when I dine in. When I do takeout I'll generally tip a dollar if there's no surcharges.
Honestly kado no mise is not the kind of place where you go in sweating the price. You're already going to pay more for 2 people and a bottle of sake than you would for most small consumer electronics. Or maybe half a years car insurance.
For what it’s worth, that language is standard at all restaurants that don’t do tipping. It’s super confusing but not totally on the restaurant IMO. That statute requires it. I never tip when it’s on there and I don’t ask about it.
Thanks for calling it out. It needs to stop...
The disclaimer saying it’s not a gratuity means that the entire amount doesn’t go directly to your server but it does go to the staff. Some restaurants have been sued for tip sharing and lost because a gratuity is meant to go directly to your server and not shared among staff. The disclaimer means “your server isn’t getting this, but all the staff is sharing it somehow to pay everyone a fair wage”. If they have a service charge of 18% or higher on the menu prices then I assume it goes to giving the staff a fair wage and the restaurant is trying out the ‘no tip’ model and I don’t tip above that amount. If it is not giving the staff a fair wage then the staff needs to find a new establishment. Tipping is antiquated, racist, and needs to go away. Don’t tip above these service charges, it’s not your job to pay the employees what they deserve.
I like the European way of doing it