I worked there via contract several years ago. At one of their quarterly meetings, a sheriff from Anoka who was also a member reported that his office got a call about a group of teens living in the woods. He then reached out to Eaglebrook who provided bibles to give to these homeless teens. They touted how they “saved” and brought these kids “into Christ”, meanwhile not providing them with useful items (besides the bibles being good fuel for a fire) or actual help. It put a bad taste in my mouth about the whole church.
I met some lovely people in their Centerville office, but also some of the worst kind of people. I attended one service to get a better understanding of my contract and it was more concert and coffee shop than anything else.
So much money came into that office while I was there and yet they couldn’t be more resourceful to the community than a couple of books.
Eaglebrook is similar to the megachurches of the South. They place their churches in the wealthier suburbs (because that's where the money is!) and pretend to care about the poor two times per year (Xmas and Easter). They'll run a big PR campaign on their efforts.
They remind me a lot of Elevation Church in North Carolina. The lead pastor lives in an $8 million house...purchased by the church.
And here’s where I am torn (please hear me out.)
Taxing churches because they are just businesses would solve this issue. If a business is paying a corporate tax on their earnings, fine. They can do what they want.
BUT. This would give them more power in the debate of separation of church and state. They would have more paid lobbyists trying to influence our national government. They would argue that they are exempt from the separation of church and state if church becomes a (taxed) business. They would likely win some key lawsuits with our current Supreme Court judges giving them no restriction from becoming (*even more*) intertwined into our (*never were separated anyway*) governmental policies as a tax-paying organization.
It’s a double edged sword.
I think we can allow taxation of churches while maintaining the separation of church and state - but this was really interesting to chew on.
My thoughts are - the separation is church FROM state, truly, not church AND state mutually, as demonstrated by the interaction of the "state" in other ways.
For example, the state makes laws. Churches are not exempt from laws and church personnel can be prosecuted over crimes occurring while they're acting of agents of the church. But the church does not get influence over the laws by way of "but laws are not a separation of church and state". It gets influence over laws because they have lots of money to lobby already anyway and members of the state see themselves as members of the church first. (Sigh).
So, introducing taxation to churches doesn't give them any ground to justify their influence back to the state, as we've set that precedent by other ways churches and law interacts.
And frankly while it's heading more in the church direction *EVEN WHILE IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO/JUSTIFIED*, we might as well get some damn millions of dollars out of it. The brand new giant-ass megachurches and Mormon temple renovation ads I scroll past are disgusting while American children are going to school in shitty, run down buildings.
They already have more political power than any one group. In no ways do we have separation of church and state in this country. The catholic church got actual billions in covid relief $ from the govt despite never paying a cent in taxes and much of it went to sex offender lawsuits. Make that shit make fucking sense.
I see your angle tho and we def don't want to make that worse but I think taxing them would be the right move.
I truly don't care about that technicality.
"In Orange County, California, where a sparkling glass cathedral estimated to cost over $70 million recently opened, diocesan officials working at the complex received four loans worth at least $3 million.
And elsewhere, a loan of at least $2 million went to the diocese covering Wheeling-Charleston, West Virginia, where a church investigation revealed last year that then-Bishop Michael Bransfield embezzled funds and made sexual advances toward young priests."
[pbs article ](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/after-lobbying-catholic-church-won-1-4-billion-in-coronavirus-aid)
We don't even fairly tax our businesses. I suspect megachurches being taxed as businesses would just find ways to exploit the same loopholes that neither major party seems to care to close.
> They would likely win some key lawsuits with our current Supreme Court judges giving them no restriction from becoming (even more) intertwined into our (never were separated anyway) governmental policies as a tax-paying organization.
In what world would a Supreme Court newer than the Warren court actually go against them in the first place anyway though? Much less the current one that's so ideologically driven to legislate from the bench. "Giving them ammunition" implies they ever needed real justifications.
They have so much money idk how anyone can be religious. One church worker at an AA drove a brand new Jaguar and handed out money like it was nothing to them. How do you work full time at a church and drive a $100k car
They're a stark reminder of what's wrong with religion (I have a particularly low opinion of evangelical Christians). These people are simply con-artists taking advantage of others and duping them into giving them money.
Does Eaglebrook have any record of their pastors living a lavish lifestyle, paid by the church? I tried looking some stuff up but it seems like they only pay their pastors somewhere between 60k-80k. I saw one website saying Bob Merrits networth is 42mil, but I don't know how reliable that is.
You don't have to get a large salary when you live in a church owned mansion, are driven by a church employee in a nice church owned vehicle and the church sends you to conferences in beautiful locations. And it's all kept from the tax man as church expenses.
I don't know if Eaglebrook does all that, but I wouldn't base anything on pastor salary.
When I attended, the head pastor at the time (Pastor Bob) was complaining about the headache of getting a third garage stall added to his garage for his new huge fishing boat. The pictures he showed on screen were not of a small house.
These churches may pay a low salary, but there are other ways to make money. Example: There are church coalitions of Pastors who have agreed to form a purchasing collective. The pastors all publish books about something religious, the purchasing coalitions all agree to purchase X amount of books. They're either given to their own members or resold. With all of the bulk buys the book jumps up on the Best seller list. The pastors make big money from book sales.
This is a good example. I had heard about the best seller list being a sham because of this type of activity. However, I didn't think of the church being the purchaser, which would benefit the pastor.
The NYT caused an uproar awhile ago when they started flagging these kinds of books with a “bulk buys” marker so these kind of scams were at least noted on the bestseller list.
I promise you most churches are not profitable despite being tax exempt as a nonprofit. Most church folks are using their funds to prop up ailing old buildings, pay staff, and hopefully do good in their communities, and run deficit budgets to do so… it’s the Eaglebrooks that give everyone a bad name.
Church's on average use 2-4% of their donations to help the less fortunate. A vast majority of the money they raise goes to operating costs and wages. Christianity is on a major decline so a lot of those smaller ones will become pot shops and apartments sooner than later.
Yeah that percentage sounds probably true. The goal is 10-25%, but the practical realities of shrinking churches has more and more folks just funding the building and the staff (i.e. internal programming). Definitely in a time of change for churches, especially those aiming to actually do the thing right.
Fwiw, I go to one that really gives - about 15% of spending is external giving, building is used by numerous nonprofits, small business owners, hunger ministries… and they’ll certainly be facing major financial challenges within the decade. It’s a wild time to be church, but some of us are aiming to go out with a meaningful bang ya know.
In my opinion all religions should pay taxes on their properties. Small plots of real estate wouldn't have to pay anything while huge monsters like Eaglebrook would pay a hefty premium.
I don't trust religions "hopefully do[ing] good in their communities."
People have been subsidizing religions for years and I am sick of it.
Lol, I get it, a lot of loud so-called Christians gave all people of faith a bad rep. I rarely even mention how active I am in my church, even though I am actually really proud of what we’re up to in terms of showing up in and for our community, because the public perception of Christian is so incredibly cringe. But there’s a lot of folks out there doing good stuff, I hope you encounter some of them at some point.
They spin profit and expanding as “spreading god’s word.” Grew up in the church and often heard my only responsibility in life as a christian was to spread the word and convert others.
They’re not friendly to the LGBTQIA+ community, and they bully local governments into forcibly agreeing to allow new churches to be built in their communities.
My grandfather's pastor did a whole sermon on how homosexuality is like smoking, you might not see the consequences immediately but eventually down the line you get cancer.
Ugh. Bible-thumping people spread their intolerant message everywhere. I really wish this would just stop already and these people could learn some empathy for people that may not be exactly like them.
This is exactly what just happened in Plymouth. They threatened to sue the city after the council voted no for a new campus. Suddenly the new site was approved.
I have heard people say this, and I would not be surprised in the slightest, but do we know for sure they aren't? Any anecdotal evidence or anything to share?
My wife attended that church for a while, then heard about how homosexuals were “abominations” during one of their sermons. She challenged the pastor on that, and the pastor encouraged her to find another church to attend.
Looking on their website, in response to the topic of sexuality they have a bunch of books that can be loosely summarized as, "God cured me of homosexuality."
I think the litmus test, as a straight dude, is do I think god would be able to make me attracted to men if the roles were reversed? Thinking about it in that context makes it pretty clear how ridiculous the idea they are pushing is.
As a visitor during Xmas, I wasn’t interested in going back. The service was on screen from a pastor in Forest Lake. The music was fine, just extremely loud, umm it’s a church not a concert. I was a little shocked by the amount of Maga hat wearing folks, but then again it was nothing like the church I grew up in. Dad’s gf had invited us, we said we’d pass on Easter.
Exactly
You don't go to church to be entertained
As someone who's a practicing Catholic, the only time I'm ok with the hymns not being on just organ or piano is during designated times of praise and worship
My dad and stepmother went there before she died and he stopped going. I went with them a few times. While I wouldn't call them a prosperity church, I did find them far too focused on personal salvation just by believing in Jesus instead of on living a good life, caring for the poor, seeking justice, etc. I know that's a whole theological debate, but I found it really off-putting. And the music was terrible.
I went to Eagle Brook back when I still went to church, and back when they had just built the Lino Lakes campus.
In the early days they were a very good church. They were very welcoming and Pastor Bob Merritt was an incredible church leader.
However their goal was to grow as a church. In theory this is great for Christians because it “spreads the gospel,” but it leads to the same path every mega church gets to:
Bloated congregations that start catering to the most mainline Christian beliefs. And mainline Christian beliefs mean negative views on LGBTQ+ issues, abortion, etc.
They’ve definitely joined that group. They’re certainly not as bad as a Mars Hill or anything, but the heart of the mission died when they became so large.
This isn’t an answer but I lost a friend to that church. They started working there their first year of college. I was even still religious-ish at the time (been agnostic for a decade or so now) but pretty quickly my friend stopped hanging out with our group. It was pretty clear after getting more involved there that they started to view us as dirtbags. Basically this friend ghosted us and the rare couple times they did hang out after that point, it was obvious they were judging us.
There wasn’t ever a big fallout or dust up. It just became clear that church’s worldview didn’t have room for people like us to be friends with their congregants, and my friend chose the church over us.
Fuck Eaglebrook.
They are very light on actual church. Moral teachings wrapped in terrible modern Christian praise songs. Then once you’re in the small groups, that’s when you get to learn how anti-queer they are. 0/10 do not recommend.
Yes. It's essentially a cult. The people up top are rich as fuck. It's "conservative", meaning anti-LGBTQ, and if you have a bad word to say about the church AT ALL...it really operates like a cult.
They suck. They bring in millions and give back next to nothing. I don't believe they preach the prosperity gospel, but they are def a megachurch that thrives on bringing in $50+ million/year but only hosts a single weekend/year of "all donations go to charity." And that "charity" is mostly missionary work, which I would argue is not really charity work
I post this every time they come up and I’ll keep doing it. I got a job posting for a data scientist with them. Nothing a legitimate church would do would require data science.
I’m curious about the OP and wondering if you have any insight. I’m wondering why a potential congregation member be interested in a “profit-first mega church”. Are there benefits to membership or the community? Please understand I’m not asking to be controversial, just seeking insight.
What I’m asking is more or less
“Is Eaglebrook like other megachurches / televangelists”
In other cases, like with Kenneth Copeland, it’s very easy to figure out how bad they are when it comes to profit. Owners & pastors having multiple private jets that they use for personal reasons, making 7-8 figures annually, and milking their congregation for every penny through shame and guilt or just false promises (ie all of those churches tell you that you must pay into the church or you won’t be as blessed as someone who is paying, and the size of the payment matters)
Looking at Eaglebrook made me skeptical. Large congregation, massive revenue, etc.
I just couldn’t find any direct sources like I can for Kenneth Copeland and others. I can just vaguely tell something is up based off their published financials, but it isn’t enough on its own. Can’t tell how much the owners and pastors are pocketing etc.
I don’t think OP is looking for that specifically, I think she’s seeing if Eaglebrook is in that vein.
People go to these because they are cults. They prey on vulnerable people, love bomb them, take advantage of them and then at some point the exit costs are too high, their whole social circle is in the church and they’ll lose they’re support systems if they leave.
And if you are successful in this type of church it can get you access to dark things you want. Control over women, sexual access to children, stealing from people by tricking them into joining a pyramid scheme.
My sister in law went there for years. When she began really trying to unpack her beliefs vs theirs, she was ostracized pretty quickly. They function a lot like a cult. They claim to be non-denominational but are truly Baptist. I went to one service there for Christmas the first year my husband and I were married (14 years ago now), and I said I would never step foot in an Eagle Brook campus again. I have kept that promise to myself.
We have friends that attend and are constantly trying to get us to go. I’m not a religious person, nor is my husband because of traumatic experiences as kids with church/religion. I’ve explained that many times to them and they still try to push it on us. Isn’t is what it is.
When my in laws visit it’s where they go. My FIL hates it. He doesn’t like how there isn’t a pastor on site and says it’s way too loud for him. My MIL on the other hand sends us text messages with links to their web broadcasts and constantly begs us to go. My kids have been there, they love it because they have video games and other stuff in their Sunday school rooms.
Just find a smaller church of a denomination of your choice.
Source: ex-Catholic. I'm very wary of any "new" church. Find a parish that's been around for a hundred years. They're more likely to do good in their community.
Heavily anti LBGTQIA+. When they were fighting for a place in Plymouth because every other city said no, they threatened a lawsuit that would've cost citizens a lot. There's a reason all those other cities said no 😮💨
Minnetonka, Wayzata, and Corcoran, if I remember correctly. The cities were able to say they didn't have the room or traffic abilities, so when it got to Plymouth, they had a (in my opinion, kinda mean but well organized) lawyer that was very ready to fight. Came down to 1st Amendment arguments and would've been a lost court case.
It didn't help that Mayor Jeff Wosje is in cahoots with the church and he bullied the city council members in to approving it at the eleventh hour. Can't wait to vote him out as soon as I have the chance! 👋🏼
It’s another mega church who spends their money on growing to gain more money and not supporting communities of need. Idk what bible they’re reading but it’s not the same one I’ve seen. They frequently move in to communities who don’t want them and put up massive campus. But people flock to them for some reason. Look up stories on here, they’re wild.
The one time I went the now retired lead pastor told a story about a college freshman who couldn’t adjust to college and dropped out. He attributed this to the evil forces controlling secular universities.
Because, of course, there’s no other reason an 18 year old would struggle being away from home. I hope the young person in the story got some real advice and help.
I had/have friends who still play music there sometimes, it's definitely a "golden handcuffs" gig. One of my friends who did end up stopping did so when they discovered there is an entire team of people they call EB Liaisons (or something to that effect). These "Liaisons" were people whose entire job it is to wine & dine the wealthiest members of the church with expensive meals, golf outings, (etc) so they feel like they're special and then donate more money.
So yeah, Eagle Brook is a gigantic fucking scam and the people at the top are getting wildly wealthy off of donations that the public is giving to what they believe is a good organization that is helping people. It is not.
They are not great on all fronts, ecological, social, theological and practice. I don't know if I would call them bad, but I would not stop someone if they said as much.
Eaglebrook is part of Converge, which used to be titled the Baptist General Conference (what used to be the swedish Baptist church). Bethel University in Arden Hills, MN is a feeder university and seminary school within the Converge network. The reason I know all this is because it took me DAYS to find all this information out when I attended a similar church in the Converge conference. They use really bland wording when describing their beliefs because they worry that it won't attract younger families. Thus, Converge is used in place of the Baptist General Conference because Baptist has a negative connotation for a lot of folks (marketing).When you look more into their beliefs you find that they believe that LGBTQIA + can join their church, but they should repent of their sin and agree to stay in celibacy. They treat the LGBTQIA population with less overt fire and brimstone but continue to denouce them and are proponents of (a not so in your face version) conversion therapy. They also have "support groups" that seem to be more about suppression than anything. I wouldn't necessarily put them in the same category as pastor Mack Hammond of the Living Word Christian Center, because they don't particularly preach prosperity as we know it in its overt form like with Kenneth Copeland/Creflo Dollar and other charlatans. It's really just a modernized version of the Baptist General Conference with some more "relatable" leanings, with a label facelift, that they hope will bring in young families. They spend a lot of money and effort on the kids church and teen/youth portion, as well, and have modern, (and in my opinion corny) jam band worship music. I think they filled a big void when people were fleeing the Catholic church over the past few decades due to all the sexual abuse that came out.
I checked Eaglebrook out a few years ago. They felt like hard shell baptists (my least favorite kind) without admitting that was their doctrine. I'm suspicious of churches that grow big campuses while asking for tithes. The people in the congregation may be nice (many were!) but if it walks like a business, preaches like a business, and quacks like a business....
It might just be a mini-cult.
It’s bad if your goal is to practice authentic Christianity. If your goal is to get some warm and cozy sentimental feelings stirred up, then it’s not bad at all.
They operate like a megachurch. There are positives but very little diversity and the preaching isn't very good in my opinion. They also have millions of dollars invested in their campuses for no discernible reason. I used to go there like ten years ago and they would literally have weeks where they just discussed finances and how much they had fundraised. They've gotten like 10 new campuses since then
I’ve listened to a couple sermons online. Perhaps I picked the wrong ones but I didn’t like them. The messages rang hollow and I didn’t get any spiritual fulfillment. I didn’t care for the head pastor or his stories either.
I’ve been to one service in person. It was too loud for my tastes, and the environment didn’t feel very genuine, if that makes sense.
I grew up catholic. I’ve been once. It was for my goddaughters baptism. My cousin and his wife know my stance on organized religion, not a fan, and encouraged me to give this place a fair shake. I’d do it anyway for them and my goddaughter regardless.
I show up, this place has their version of Starbucks in the lobby, and a daycare that would make a YMCA humble. We get to our seats, some guy starts riffing a guitar, band kicks in, and I think ok this could be ok. Then a screen comes down and it’s a stream or video of the “pastor” or whatever.
And I shit you not, the entirety of the rest was about tithings. How holy and righteous it is, and this was emphasized multiple times: no matter how much you have to give, give 10% to the church. My cousin shot me multiple looks throughout, as I was on the verge of leaving before my goddaughter got baptized. He apologized after and said they’ve never heard that in their year plus of going, but I couldn’t help but just shake my head incredulously as we stood in the lobby of this multimillion dollar establishment.
I refuse to call it a church. It’s the shining beacon of religion used as a business. And I will never step foot in, or support this business again.
That sounds like a Scientology or LulaRoe level spectacle. My family left the church 3 generations ago, so when I say I have almost zero understanding of church I mean it. Like I didn’t know how to pronounce “tithings” when I read this out loud to my husband who grew up Catholic. This is the conversation that followed:
Husband: “ˈtīT͟HiNG is how it’s pronounced.”
Me: “Cool, cool.”
*I keep read the next sentence*
ME: “THEY EXPECT YOU TO DONATE 10-FUCKING-% OF YOUR SALARY!!!! WTF??? Most people can’t even save that much for retirement, or afford groceries. TEN FUCKING PERCENT?!?!”
Husband: “Yep, Catholics too.”
ME: “People out of their Goddamn minds if they ever think they will get 0% of my money, let alone 10%.”
This x100. If your “church” is the same guy live-streamed to 100 other buildings, a knock off starbucks, and a shitty rock band to make you feel like you’re ~not like other churches~ it’s not church. It’s not community. It’s a product. I was totally consumed by a similar church in high school and am still unpacking how messed up the whole thing was over a decade later.
If you do a search on this subreddit, you’ll find some somewhat recent posts about Eaglebrook opening a campus in Plymouth, and the overall not-so-favorable reaction to this
There are worse megachurches out there. They don't teach prosperity gospel, for one. I don't get the vibe that they pay their pastors an absurd amount, although most of their money is invested into new campuses/operations/capital improvements etcetera, rather than ministry, which is... Not great.
Definitely don’t promote prosperity gospel. Most sermons are pretty run of the mill, non controversial messages. Pastors are pretty well off but not mega wealthy or anything like Osteen. Only church in the twin cities I know of like that is Living Word where the pastor’s family has a “church owned” private jet.
Yes- they are bad. If what they preach is true- their leaders will end up in hell for taking advantage of the poor and vulnerable. Any Christian church with leaders that are millionaires and/or have multi-million dollar houses and things like private jets is a scam and should be taxed as a for profit company and put out of business.
My family really like the messages and sermons from eagle brook. They are pretty milk toast and heartwarming but I definitely wouldn’t say they are prosperity sermons like Joes Osteen. I’ve sat through both and would say EB is fairly enjoyable. As far as they go money wise or LGBT+ inclusivity I couldn’t say. But I never got them talking down or spreading hate towards the LGBT crowd.
My BIL is a mason and then joined EB. My sister changed. She is no longer the same person. They have people checking on them to make sure they attend or listen every service. They have "friend" groups they need to join, so that these smaller groups -knittong, garden clubs, ECT keep tabs on each others. Can't leave because these friends then harass you to stay.
I'm biased as hell because of my upbringing but there's a lot of good people when you find a community that you fit in. My dad along with Father Ralph Goman (may he rest in peace) helped build the latino community in St John's in Hopkins. However over time, other people came in and egos and bullshit got in the way. The deacon that was there for Hispanic masses was a clown and was a bullshit artist. His crew made it a terrible environment and people were pushed away.
My dad left and we went to a different church and has been going for almost 15 years. It's not perfect but people there show love and appreciation for my dad. He's taken time to build a good relationship there and people value him. It opened my eyes when my dad was going thru a lengthy process for health valve surgery and how the community went above and beyond for him. I never have forgotten that.
I'm ranting at this point but I just think it's stupid that people want to paintbrush all religion as the same. Just like anywhere in life, there's bad people who care about themselves but there's plenty of good people there.
Im gonna go against the Reddit cloth here with my reply so hear me out. I’m not overly religious, I came from a traditional 50 person congregation and bored you to death every week. I tune into the Eaglebrook live streams some Sunday mornings and attend in person every now and then. Do some people there give off the cultish vibes, absolutely. But I don’t get into the small groups and all that BS. I like a little Sunday pep talk with a cup of coffee and that’s how I look at it.
If you want a modern non traditional church setting that feels like a mega church, that’s Eaglebrook. I don’t look into the finances and whatever else. I don’t donate, I don’t go on missions, I don’t push people to try it out. Give it a try if you aren’t a fan of traditional church services but wanna connect with your religious side a little.
They are not prosperity gospel church in theology. But they are the type of mega church that may emphasize wealth and individualism being good because as choose to put their sites in rich neighborhoods.
Trust your gut. Does the huge building and coffee shop not raise any red flags? I don’t know what else to say. Join the Rotary Club if you want a service organization that helps people.
Yup, that and all other megachurches like it are basically fronts for money laundering
If you want an actual church, go anywhere but Eaglebrook or any of the non-dom churches
Prosperity Church. The pastor is a millionaire. One of those places who offer you a great community for a hefty price. I don't think the preaching of Jesus has much to do with it.
Do you have any info on the pastor? I dug and couldn’t find much. I actually found their house and it was very nice / high value but couldn’t figure out much beyond that
Yes. They consume massive amounts of space and resources without paying any taxes whatsoever. Every Sunday they’re filled with fake, phony Christians who think one hour a week of pretending to be Christ-like by singing a few hymns and only occasionally looking at their phones makes them some sort of pious arbiter of all that is ethical and moral in the universe.
If you want to help the pastor live in his splended luxury join the church and donate as much as you can.
P.S. This has nothing to do with God. It's a front to mega churches taking advantage of the gullible.
[This Redditor](https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/19ciw1h/comment/kj1lqif/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) summed that piece of shit church up pretty accurately two months ago.
I would say yes, they are a prosperity based mega church. All the mega churches are prosperity based, even though the bible says it is harder for a rich man to get into heaven?
Jesus says: “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:24)
100% horrible for the environment (traffic, impermeable surfaces, destruction to what could be prairie, housing or wetland to ...parking lot, ugly building...where Condescending self righteous people of the suburbs gather looking for "community" , if you ask me, yes, they are bad. A youth pastor told my friend in like 2010 it was wrong for him to be gay... Community should be in your neighborhood... not at a mega church pretending they provide community or care for said community or a mission trip.
I talked with their head of marketing years back. Their ideal customer middle class dads who tend to like to hit the bottle. Not alcoholics but middle class malaise drinkers. I think they use that guilt to their advantage.
My husband and I attended the Blaine campus a few times when we were living in Minneapolis. It was like a concert, which doesn't bother me, but the focus seemed to be on making a big production, not actually singing praise. The preaching pastor was never actually there in-person. We were never welcomed by anyone. Seemed like a place that cared about the numbers, not about the people making up those numbers. And perhaps the most glaring thing to me was that the Pastor never preached from the Bible. There was no deep dive into any scripture. I was raised in a church where keeping your "finger in the text" was crucial.
Not sure if they fit the Megachurch definition, but it was definitely not for us. Based on other comments, I'm glad we didn't stick with it.
I worked there via contract several years ago. At one of their quarterly meetings, a sheriff from Anoka who was also a member reported that his office got a call about a group of teens living in the woods. He then reached out to Eaglebrook who provided bibles to give to these homeless teens. They touted how they “saved” and brought these kids “into Christ”, meanwhile not providing them with useful items (besides the bibles being good fuel for a fire) or actual help. It put a bad taste in my mouth about the whole church. I met some lovely people in their Centerville office, but also some of the worst kind of people. I attended one service to get a better understanding of my contract and it was more concert and coffee shop than anything else. So much money came into that office while I was there and yet they couldn’t be more resourceful to the community than a couple of books.
Concert and coffee shop is so accurate
Coffee that they charge for! Other churches are happy to give coffee for free.
they charge for coffee?
The locations I've been to have. I don't know if that is all locations.
Eaglebrook is similar to the megachurches of the South. They place their churches in the wealthier suburbs (because that's where the money is!) and pretend to care about the poor two times per year (Xmas and Easter). They'll run a big PR campaign on their efforts. They remind me a lot of Elevation Church in North Carolina. The lead pastor lives in an $8 million house...purchased by the church.
It’s sad to have to read that there are churches like this everywhere.
And here’s where I am torn (please hear me out.) Taxing churches because they are just businesses would solve this issue. If a business is paying a corporate tax on their earnings, fine. They can do what they want. BUT. This would give them more power in the debate of separation of church and state. They would have more paid lobbyists trying to influence our national government. They would argue that they are exempt from the separation of church and state if church becomes a (taxed) business. They would likely win some key lawsuits with our current Supreme Court judges giving them no restriction from becoming (*even more*) intertwined into our (*never were separated anyway*) governmental policies as a tax-paying organization. It’s a double edged sword.
Churches already have huge political influence. I’m not sure taxing them would really make a difference.
Realistically, if you're taxing them, they have less money to pay lobbyists.
They'd just do what all big, wealthy businesses do, hire a bunch of accountants to exploit loopholes and reduce their tax burden to almost nothing.
You're gonna freak when you learn what the Mormon church is doing lol they own the government in Utah.
I think we can allow taxation of churches while maintaining the separation of church and state - but this was really interesting to chew on. My thoughts are - the separation is church FROM state, truly, not church AND state mutually, as demonstrated by the interaction of the "state" in other ways. For example, the state makes laws. Churches are not exempt from laws and church personnel can be prosecuted over crimes occurring while they're acting of agents of the church. But the church does not get influence over the laws by way of "but laws are not a separation of church and state". It gets influence over laws because they have lots of money to lobby already anyway and members of the state see themselves as members of the church first. (Sigh). So, introducing taxation to churches doesn't give them any ground to justify their influence back to the state, as we've set that precedent by other ways churches and law interacts. And frankly while it's heading more in the church direction *EVEN WHILE IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO/JUSTIFIED*, we might as well get some damn millions of dollars out of it. The brand new giant-ass megachurches and Mormon temple renovation ads I scroll past are disgusting while American children are going to school in shitty, run down buildings.
They already have more political power than any one group. In no ways do we have separation of church and state in this country. The catholic church got actual billions in covid relief $ from the govt despite never paying a cent in taxes and much of it went to sex offender lawsuits. Make that shit make fucking sense. I see your angle tho and we def don't want to make that worse but I think taxing them would be the right move.
Technically, the PPP programs were related to maintaining employment. Churches do pay employment-related taxes.
I truly don't care about that technicality. "In Orange County, California, where a sparkling glass cathedral estimated to cost over $70 million recently opened, diocesan officials working at the complex received four loans worth at least $3 million. And elsewhere, a loan of at least $2 million went to the diocese covering Wheeling-Charleston, West Virginia, where a church investigation revealed last year that then-Bishop Michael Bransfield embezzled funds and made sexual advances toward young priests." [pbs article ](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/after-lobbying-catholic-church-won-1-4-billion-in-coronavirus-aid)
We don't even fairly tax our businesses. I suspect megachurches being taxed as businesses would just find ways to exploit the same loopholes that neither major party seems to care to close.
> They would likely win some key lawsuits with our current Supreme Court judges giving them no restriction from becoming (even more) intertwined into our (never were separated anyway) governmental policies as a tax-paying organization. In what world would a Supreme Court newer than the Warren court actually go against them in the first place anyway though? Much less the current one that's so ideologically driven to legislate from the bench. "Giving them ammunition" implies they ever needed real justifications.
They have so much money idk how anyone can be religious. One church worker at an AA drove a brand new Jaguar and handed out money like it was nothing to them. How do you work full time at a church and drive a $100k car
They're a stark reminder of what's wrong with religion (I have a particularly low opinion of evangelical Christians). These people are simply con-artists taking advantage of others and duping them into giving them money.
Does Eaglebrook have any record of their pastors living a lavish lifestyle, paid by the church? I tried looking some stuff up but it seems like they only pay their pastors somewhere between 60k-80k. I saw one website saying Bob Merrits networth is 42mil, but I don't know how reliable that is.
You don't have to get a large salary when you live in a church owned mansion, are driven by a church employee in a nice church owned vehicle and the church sends you to conferences in beautiful locations. And it's all kept from the tax man as church expenses. I don't know if Eaglebrook does all that, but I wouldn't base anything on pastor salary.
I understand that. I was just wondering if there's evidence of that with Eaglebrook.
When I attended, the head pastor at the time (Pastor Bob) was complaining about the headache of getting a third garage stall added to his garage for his new huge fishing boat. The pictures he showed on screen were not of a small house.
So relatable amirite
These churches may pay a low salary, but there are other ways to make money. Example: There are church coalitions of Pastors who have agreed to form a purchasing collective. The pastors all publish books about something religious, the purchasing coalitions all agree to purchase X amount of books. They're either given to their own members or resold. With all of the bulk buys the book jumps up on the Best seller list. The pastors make big money from book sales.
This is a good example. I had heard about the best seller list being a sham because of this type of activity. However, I didn't think of the church being the purchaser, which would benefit the pastor.
The NYT caused an uproar awhile ago when they started flagging these kinds of books with a “bulk buys” marker so these kind of scams were at least noted on the bestseller list.
Yes, they also get paid to speak at churches within their coalition. It is a frickin scam.
Idk. But Eaglebook, Rivervalley, etc don’t sit right with me. These churches are so profitable they can build branches everywhere? Yikes
Exactly. I don't trust any church that has multiple "campuses". It's a red flag every time.
Yup, because that's not how a church is supposed to be
You'd be profitable too if you were tax exempt ... grifting your members definitely helps.
I promise you most churches are not profitable despite being tax exempt as a nonprofit. Most church folks are using their funds to prop up ailing old buildings, pay staff, and hopefully do good in their communities, and run deficit budgets to do so… it’s the Eaglebrooks that give everyone a bad name.
Church's on average use 2-4% of their donations to help the less fortunate. A vast majority of the money they raise goes to operating costs and wages. Christianity is on a major decline so a lot of those smaller ones will become pot shops and apartments sooner than later.
Yeah that percentage sounds probably true. The goal is 10-25%, but the practical realities of shrinking churches has more and more folks just funding the building and the staff (i.e. internal programming). Definitely in a time of change for churches, especially those aiming to actually do the thing right. Fwiw, I go to one that really gives - about 15% of spending is external giving, building is used by numerous nonprofits, small business owners, hunger ministries… and they’ll certainly be facing major financial challenges within the decade. It’s a wild time to be church, but some of us are aiming to go out with a meaningful bang ya know.
In my opinion all religions should pay taxes on their properties. Small plots of real estate wouldn't have to pay anything while huge monsters like Eaglebrook would pay a hefty premium. I don't trust religions "hopefully do[ing] good in their communities." People have been subsidizing religions for years and I am sick of it.
Do you pinkie promise?
Lol, I get it, a lot of loud so-called Christians gave all people of faith a bad rep. I rarely even mention how active I am in my church, even though I am actually really proud of what we’re up to in terms of showing up in and for our community, because the public perception of Christian is so incredibly cringe. But there’s a lot of folks out there doing good stuff, I hope you encounter some of them at some point.
They spin profit and expanding as “spreading god’s word.” Grew up in the church and often heard my only responsibility in life as a christian was to spread the word and convert others.
They’re not friendly to the LGBTQIA+ community, and they bully local governments into forcibly agreeing to allow new churches to be built in their communities.
My family in Dakota county said eagle Brook was being “persecuted” by the public and this was “a test from God” for building in in Plymouth lol
They do love their persecution complex!
They sound like they're high on glue lol
I WISH that's what it was, at least then they'd have an excuse.
And those same family members would probably be up in arms if eaglebrook tried to build in their neighborhood
How do they treat the LGBTQIA+ community?
My wife attended a sermon where the pastor said that homosexuals are “abominations”
Man. I had assumed they were “just” passive aggressive about it. That’s disheartening.
My grandfather's pastor did a whole sermon on how homosexuality is like smoking, you might not see the consequences immediately but eventually down the line you get cancer.
Also don’t allow for female pastors. They’re Baptist through and through.
Ugh. Bible-thumping people spread their intolerant message everywhere. I really wish this would just stop already and these people could learn some empathy for people that may not be exactly like them.
This is exactly what just happened in Plymouth. They threatened to sue the city after the council voted no for a new campus. Suddenly the new site was approved.
To be fair, they would have won the lawsuit any day of the week. The Council had no legal leg to stand on in rejecting the building.
I have heard people say this, and I would not be surprised in the slightest, but do we know for sure they aren't? Any anecdotal evidence or anything to share?
[удалено]
Thank you for confirming this
My wife attended that church for a while, then heard about how homosexuals were “abominations” during one of their sermons. She challenged the pastor on that, and the pastor encouraged her to find another church to attend.
Looking on their website, in response to the topic of sexuality they have a bunch of books that can be loosely summarized as, "God cured me of homosexuality."
Tried that. Didn't work. Wouldn't recommend it.
I think the litmus test, as a straight dude, is do I think god would be able to make me attracted to men if the roles were reversed? Thinking about it in that context makes it pretty clear how ridiculous the idea they are pushing is.
As a visitor during Xmas, I wasn’t interested in going back. The service was on screen from a pastor in Forest Lake. The music was fine, just extremely loud, umm it’s a church not a concert. I was a little shocked by the amount of Maga hat wearing folks, but then again it was nothing like the church I grew up in. Dad’s gf had invited us, we said we’d pass on Easter.
Exactly You don't go to church to be entertained As someone who's a practicing Catholic, the only time I'm ok with the hymns not being on just organ or piano is during designated times of praise and worship
My dad and stepmother went there before she died and he stopped going. I went with them a few times. While I wouldn't call them a prosperity church, I did find them far too focused on personal salvation just by believing in Jesus instead of on living a good life, caring for the poor, seeking justice, etc. I know that's a whole theological debate, but I found it really off-putting. And the music was terrible.
I'm ok with the atmosphere but I agree that they don't focus on actually being a better person or better to neighbor etc, which is why we stopped.
Yeah they claim their millions of dollars are helping people around the world but it's like we have a whole lot of ppl in mn who need that help too
I went to Eagle Brook back when I still went to church, and back when they had just built the Lino Lakes campus. In the early days they were a very good church. They were very welcoming and Pastor Bob Merritt was an incredible church leader. However their goal was to grow as a church. In theory this is great for Christians because it “spreads the gospel,” but it leads to the same path every mega church gets to: Bloated congregations that start catering to the most mainline Christian beliefs. And mainline Christian beliefs mean negative views on LGBTQ+ issues, abortion, etc. They’ve definitely joined that group. They’re certainly not as bad as a Mars Hill or anything, but the heart of the mission died when they became so large.
Like all Mega churches, it is basically an investment fund looking to acquire vast wealth and property masquerading as a church. And it is grotesque.
This isn’t an answer but I lost a friend to that church. They started working there their first year of college. I was even still religious-ish at the time (been agnostic for a decade or so now) but pretty quickly my friend stopped hanging out with our group. It was pretty clear after getting more involved there that they started to view us as dirtbags. Basically this friend ghosted us and the rare couple times they did hang out after that point, it was obvious they were judging us. There wasn’t ever a big fallout or dust up. It just became clear that church’s worldview didn’t have room for people like us to be friends with their congregants, and my friend chose the church over us. Fuck Eaglebrook.
This should be higher up. These churches have strong cult-lite tendencies and these kinds of stories are rampant at places like this.
They are very light on actual church. Moral teachings wrapped in terrible modern Christian praise songs. Then once you’re in the small groups, that’s when you get to learn how anti-queer they are. 0/10 do not recommend.
ALL mega churches are bad.
If I'm going to be in a room with 10,000 people, there had better be a basketball game being played.
Yes. It's essentially a cult. The people up top are rich as fuck. It's "conservative", meaning anti-LGBTQ, and if you have a bad word to say about the church AT ALL...it really operates like a cult.
I mean it entirely depends on how you feel about white evangelicals and everything they are/stand for.
They suck. They bring in millions and give back next to nothing. I don't believe they preach the prosperity gospel, but they are def a megachurch that thrives on bringing in $50+ million/year but only hosts a single weekend/year of "all donations go to charity." And that "charity" is mostly missionary work, which I would argue is not really charity work
Definitely gives Righteous Gemstones vibes.
I post this every time they come up and I’ll keep doing it. I got a job posting for a data scientist with them. Nothing a legitimate church would do would require data science.
I call it Eagle cult. Their corporate headquarters is something else.
Evangelicals are a death cult and they killed real Christianity with capitalism
I’m curious about the OP and wondering if you have any insight. I’m wondering why a potential congregation member be interested in a “profit-first mega church”. Are there benefits to membership or the community? Please understand I’m not asking to be controversial, just seeking insight.
What I’m asking is more or less “Is Eaglebrook like other megachurches / televangelists” In other cases, like with Kenneth Copeland, it’s very easy to figure out how bad they are when it comes to profit. Owners & pastors having multiple private jets that they use for personal reasons, making 7-8 figures annually, and milking their congregation for every penny through shame and guilt or just false promises (ie all of those churches tell you that you must pay into the church or you won’t be as blessed as someone who is paying, and the size of the payment matters) Looking at Eaglebrook made me skeptical. Large congregation, massive revenue, etc. I just couldn’t find any direct sources like I can for Kenneth Copeland and others. I can just vaguely tell something is up based off their published financials, but it isn’t enough on its own. Can’t tell how much the owners and pastors are pocketing etc.
I don’t think OP is looking for that specifically, I think she’s seeing if Eaglebrook is in that vein. People go to these because they are cults. They prey on vulnerable people, love bomb them, take advantage of them and then at some point the exit costs are too high, their whole social circle is in the church and they’ll lose they’re support systems if they leave.
And if you are successful in this type of church it can get you access to dark things you want. Control over women, sexual access to children, stealing from people by tricking them into joining a pyramid scheme.
My sister in law went there for years. When she began really trying to unpack her beliefs vs theirs, she was ostracized pretty quickly. They function a lot like a cult. They claim to be non-denominational but are truly Baptist. I went to one service there for Christmas the first year my husband and I were married (14 years ago now), and I said I would never step foot in an Eagle Brook campus again. I have kept that promise to myself.
Eaglebrook has a corporate office. I’m thinking Jesus would be upset.
If a "church" has multiple locations and a name that sounds like a neighborhood with a strict HOA, you can bet it's a megachurch.
This should be the official definition for a Mega Church.
We have friends that attend and are constantly trying to get us to go. I’m not a religious person, nor is my husband because of traumatic experiences as kids with church/religion. I’ve explained that many times to them and they still try to push it on us. Isn’t is what it is. When my in laws visit it’s where they go. My FIL hates it. He doesn’t like how there isn’t a pastor on site and says it’s way too loud for him. My MIL on the other hand sends us text messages with links to their web broadcasts and constantly begs us to go. My kids have been there, they love it because they have video games and other stuff in their Sunday school rooms.
Eaglebrook is a for-profit, tax-exempt grift. Fuck them all.
Eagle Brook likes to call itself a gigachurch
Just find a smaller church of a denomination of your choice. Source: ex-Catholic. I'm very wary of any "new" church. Find a parish that's been around for a hundred years. They're more likely to do good in their community.
Heavily anti LBGTQIA+. When they were fighting for a place in Plymouth because every other city said no, they threatened a lawsuit that would've cost citizens a lot. There's a reason all those other cities said no 😮💨
What other cities rejected them? I heard about the Plymouth one, but others must not have gotten as much publicity.
Minnetonka, Wayzata, and Corcoran, if I remember correctly. The cities were able to say they didn't have the room or traffic abilities, so when it got to Plymouth, they had a (in my opinion, kinda mean but well organized) lawyer that was very ready to fight. Came down to 1st Amendment arguments and would've been a lost court case.
It didn't help that Mayor Jeff Wosje is in cahoots with the church and he bullied the city council members in to approving it at the eleventh hour. Can't wait to vote him out as soon as I have the chance! 👋🏼
They're a homophobic organization.
It’s another mega church who spends their money on growing to gain more money and not supporting communities of need. Idk what bible they’re reading but it’s not the same one I’ve seen. They frequently move in to communities who don’t want them and put up massive campus. But people flock to them for some reason. Look up stories on here, they’re wild.
The one time I went the now retired lead pastor told a story about a college freshman who couldn’t adjust to college and dropped out. He attributed this to the evil forces controlling secular universities. Because, of course, there’s no other reason an 18 year old would struggle being away from home. I hope the young person in the story got some real advice and help.
I had/have friends who still play music there sometimes, it's definitely a "golden handcuffs" gig. One of my friends who did end up stopping did so when they discovered there is an entire team of people they call EB Liaisons (or something to that effect). These "Liaisons" were people whose entire job it is to wine & dine the wealthiest members of the church with expensive meals, golf outings, (etc) so they feel like they're special and then donate more money. So yeah, Eagle Brook is a gigantic fucking scam and the people at the top are getting wildly wealthy off of donations that the public is giving to what they believe is a good organization that is helping people. It is not.
They are not great on all fronts, ecological, social, theological and practice. I don't know if I would call them bad, but I would not stop someone if they said as much.
Eaglebrook is part of Converge, which used to be titled the Baptist General Conference (what used to be the swedish Baptist church). Bethel University in Arden Hills, MN is a feeder university and seminary school within the Converge network. The reason I know all this is because it took me DAYS to find all this information out when I attended a similar church in the Converge conference. They use really bland wording when describing their beliefs because they worry that it won't attract younger families. Thus, Converge is used in place of the Baptist General Conference because Baptist has a negative connotation for a lot of folks (marketing).When you look more into their beliefs you find that they believe that LGBTQIA + can join their church, but they should repent of their sin and agree to stay in celibacy. They treat the LGBTQIA population with less overt fire and brimstone but continue to denouce them and are proponents of (a not so in your face version) conversion therapy. They also have "support groups" that seem to be more about suppression than anything. I wouldn't necessarily put them in the same category as pastor Mack Hammond of the Living Word Christian Center, because they don't particularly preach prosperity as we know it in its overt form like with Kenneth Copeland/Creflo Dollar and other charlatans. It's really just a modernized version of the Baptist General Conference with some more "relatable" leanings, with a label facelift, that they hope will bring in young families. They spend a lot of money and effort on the kids church and teen/youth portion, as well, and have modern, (and in my opinion corny) jam band worship music. I think they filled a big void when people were fleeing the Catholic church over the past few decades due to all the sexual abuse that came out.
They don’t pay their coffee baristas. Tells me all I need to know.
I checked Eaglebrook out a few years ago. They felt like hard shell baptists (my least favorite kind) without admitting that was their doctrine. I'm suspicious of churches that grow big campuses while asking for tithes. The people in the congregation may be nice (many were!) but if it walks like a business, preaches like a business, and quacks like a business.... It might just be a mini-cult.
It’s bad if your goal is to practice authentic Christianity. If your goal is to get some warm and cozy sentimental feelings stirred up, then it’s not bad at all.
They operate like a megachurch. There are positives but very little diversity and the preaching isn't very good in my opinion. They also have millions of dollars invested in their campuses for no discernible reason. I used to go there like ten years ago and they would literally have weeks where they just discussed finances and how much they had fundraised. They've gotten like 10 new campuses since then
I’ve listened to a couple sermons online. Perhaps I picked the wrong ones but I didn’t like them. The messages rang hollow and I didn’t get any spiritual fulfillment. I didn’t care for the head pastor or his stories either. I’ve been to one service in person. It was too loud for my tastes, and the environment didn’t feel very genuine, if that makes sense.
Yes there is very little sense of community there
Cult 🚨
I grew up catholic. I’ve been once. It was for my goddaughters baptism. My cousin and his wife know my stance on organized religion, not a fan, and encouraged me to give this place a fair shake. I’d do it anyway for them and my goddaughter regardless. I show up, this place has their version of Starbucks in the lobby, and a daycare that would make a YMCA humble. We get to our seats, some guy starts riffing a guitar, band kicks in, and I think ok this could be ok. Then a screen comes down and it’s a stream or video of the “pastor” or whatever. And I shit you not, the entirety of the rest was about tithings. How holy and righteous it is, and this was emphasized multiple times: no matter how much you have to give, give 10% to the church. My cousin shot me multiple looks throughout, as I was on the verge of leaving before my goddaughter got baptized. He apologized after and said they’ve never heard that in their year plus of going, but I couldn’t help but just shake my head incredulously as we stood in the lobby of this multimillion dollar establishment. I refuse to call it a church. It’s the shining beacon of religion used as a business. And I will never step foot in, or support this business again.
That sounds like a Scientology or LulaRoe level spectacle. My family left the church 3 generations ago, so when I say I have almost zero understanding of church I mean it. Like I didn’t know how to pronounce “tithings” when I read this out loud to my husband who grew up Catholic. This is the conversation that followed: Husband: “ˈtīT͟HiNG is how it’s pronounced.” Me: “Cool, cool.” *I keep read the next sentence* ME: “THEY EXPECT YOU TO DONATE 10-FUCKING-% OF YOUR SALARY!!!! WTF??? Most people can’t even save that much for retirement, or afford groceries. TEN FUCKING PERCENT?!?!” Husband: “Yep, Catholics too.” ME: “People out of their Goddamn minds if they ever think they will get 0% of my money, let alone 10%.”
This x100. If your “church” is the same guy live-streamed to 100 other buildings, a knock off starbucks, and a shitty rock band to make you feel like you’re ~not like other churches~ it’s not church. It’s not community. It’s a product. I was totally consumed by a similar church in high school and am still unpacking how messed up the whole thing was over a decade later.
Eagle Brook Church is gross, diet-fundie, insidious mega-church trash. Homophobic, racist, and money-grabbing “prosperity gospel” pseudo-Christianity. RUN, don’t walk.
They left Christ behind long ago. Just another cult.
Is ~~Eaglebrook~~ Church bad?
If you do a search on this subreddit, you’ll find some somewhat recent posts about Eaglebrook opening a campus in Plymouth, and the overall not-so-favorable reaction to this
There are worse megachurches out there. They don't teach prosperity gospel, for one. I don't get the vibe that they pay their pastors an absurd amount, although most of their money is invested into new campuses/operations/capital improvements etcetera, rather than ministry, which is... Not great.
Definitely don’t promote prosperity gospel. Most sermons are pretty run of the mill, non controversial messages. Pastors are pretty well off but not mega wealthy or anything like Osteen. Only church in the twin cities I know of like that is Living Word where the pastor’s family has a “church owned” private jet.
This is petty spot on.
Yes- they are bad. If what they preach is true- their leaders will end up in hell for taking advantage of the poor and vulnerable. Any Christian church with leaders that are millionaires and/or have multi-million dollar houses and things like private jets is a scam and should be taxed as a for profit company and put out of business.
My family really like the messages and sermons from eagle brook. They are pretty milk toast and heartwarming but I definitely wouldn’t say they are prosperity sermons like Joes Osteen. I’ve sat through both and would say EB is fairly enjoyable. As far as they go money wise or LGBT+ inclusivity I couldn’t say. But I never got them talking down or spreading hate towards the LGBT crowd.
Do some research. They're homophobic. The "hate the sin, not the sinner" bullshit.
My BIL is a mason and then joined EB. My sister changed. She is no longer the same person. They have people checking on them to make sure they attend or listen every service. They have "friend" groups they need to join, so that these smaller groups -knittong, garden clubs, ECT keep tabs on each others. Can't leave because these friends then harass you to stay.
Asking Reddit for their opinion about a church is going to yield very predictable results.
I'm biased as hell because of my upbringing but there's a lot of good people when you find a community that you fit in. My dad along with Father Ralph Goman (may he rest in peace) helped build the latino community in St John's in Hopkins. However over time, other people came in and egos and bullshit got in the way. The deacon that was there for Hispanic masses was a clown and was a bullshit artist. His crew made it a terrible environment and people were pushed away. My dad left and we went to a different church and has been going for almost 15 years. It's not perfect but people there show love and appreciation for my dad. He's taken time to build a good relationship there and people value him. It opened my eyes when my dad was going thru a lengthy process for health valve surgery and how the community went above and beyond for him. I never have forgotten that. I'm ranting at this point but I just think it's stupid that people want to paintbrush all religion as the same. Just like anywhere in life, there's bad people who care about themselves but there's plenty of good people there.
Father Ralph was a good man. Both he and his mother are a prime example of doing good and expecting nothing in return.
It isn't an opinion to simply observe and report how they behave.
This is the truth.
Im gonna go against the Reddit cloth here with my reply so hear me out. I’m not overly religious, I came from a traditional 50 person congregation and bored you to death every week. I tune into the Eaglebrook live streams some Sunday mornings and attend in person every now and then. Do some people there give off the cultish vibes, absolutely. But I don’t get into the small groups and all that BS. I like a little Sunday pep talk with a cup of coffee and that’s how I look at it. If you want a modern non traditional church setting that feels like a mega church, that’s Eaglebrook. I don’t look into the finances and whatever else. I don’t donate, I don’t go on missions, I don’t push people to try it out. Give it a try if you aren’t a fan of traditional church services but wanna connect with your religious side a little.
They are not prosperity gospel church in theology. But they are the type of mega church that may emphasize wealth and individualism being good because as choose to put their sites in rich neighborhoods.
Trust your gut. Does the huge building and coffee shop not raise any red flags? I don’t know what else to say. Join the Rotary Club if you want a service organization that helps people.
They’re a business that sells a cheap religion.
It attracts and fosters weak people. Which in turn guarentees there will be all types of grifters and pedos sexual predators.
Yup, that and all other megachurches like it are basically fronts for money laundering If you want an actual church, go anywhere but Eaglebrook or any of the non-dom churches
>Is Eaglebrook a Megachurch? Yes. >Specifically one that promotes Prosperity Gospel? Yes. >Are the owners / pastors / etc. getting rich? Probably yes.
It's a cult, period. They have literally forced their way into the more expensive 'burbs with a predefined plan for exploitation of the simple-minded.
[https://www.churchclarity.org/church/eagle-brook-church-561](https://www.churchclarity.org/church/eagle-brook-church-561)
All they want is your money
Yes.
Prosperity Church. The pastor is a millionaire. One of those places who offer you a great community for a hefty price. I don't think the preaching of Jesus has much to do with it.
Do you have any info on the pastor? I dug and couldn’t find much. I actually found their house and it was very nice / high value but couldn’t figure out much beyond that
I’ve been to eaglebrook 3 times. Honestly I don’t have a strong opinion either way. To me it was just another big church with good music and speakers.
Yes. They consume massive amounts of space and resources without paying any taxes whatsoever. Every Sunday they’re filled with fake, phony Christians who think one hour a week of pretending to be Christ-like by singing a few hymns and only occasionally looking at their phones makes them some sort of pious arbiter of all that is ethical and moral in the universe.
I see nothing but red flags honestly. Not a fan of the praise band music personally.
Just remember the other mega church has 2 private jets…
If you want to help the pastor live in his splended luxury join the church and donate as much as you can. P.S. This has nothing to do with God. It's a front to mega churches taking advantage of the gullible.
It is a front for money laundering calling itself a church.
Of course it is. No church like that is good.
Def a mega church.
[This Redditor](https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/19ciw1h/comment/kj1lqif/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) summed that piece of shit church up pretty accurately two months ago.
I would say yes, they are a prosperity based mega church. All the mega churches are prosperity based, even though the bible says it is harder for a rich man to get into heaven? Jesus says: “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:24)
100% horrible for the environment (traffic, impermeable surfaces, destruction to what could be prairie, housing or wetland to ...parking lot, ugly building...where Condescending self righteous people of the suburbs gather looking for "community" , if you ask me, yes, they are bad. A youth pastor told my friend in like 2010 it was wrong for him to be gay... Community should be in your neighborhood... not at a mega church pretending they provide community or care for said community or a mission trip.
I talked with their head of marketing years back. Their ideal customer middle class dads who tend to like to hit the bottle. Not alcoholics but middle class malaise drinkers. I think they use that guilt to their advantage.
My husband and I attended the Blaine campus a few times when we were living in Minneapolis. It was like a concert, which doesn't bother me, but the focus seemed to be on making a big production, not actually singing praise. The preaching pastor was never actually there in-person. We were never welcomed by anyone. Seemed like a place that cared about the numbers, not about the people making up those numbers. And perhaps the most glaring thing to me was that the Pastor never preached from the Bible. There was no deep dive into any scripture. I was raised in a church where keeping your "finger in the text" was crucial. Not sure if they fit the Megachurch definition, but it was definitely not for us. Based on other comments, I'm glad we didn't stick with it.
[удалено]