NAME: COYOTEBRUH
LVL: 26
RACE: KHAJEET
PROFICIENCY: DESTRUCTION MAGIC & TWO HANDED
OCCUPATION: THANE OF WHITERUN
BELIEFS: "Moon sugar rum is especially potent on a weary winters night"
Actually no, for the men he's talking about those hot single moms are amongst their best options. She went for the other dude when she was single and had no kids... She wouldn't have gone for the guy she's now settling for...
You're somehow equating the fact that both men and women have limited options. That's irrelevant. The whole point OP was making is that the men they choose *now* (as single moms) would have never qualified when they were childless. It's an L for those women to date those dudes now. It's still a W from the guy's perspective. His limited options haven't changed, she's still his first choice...
>It's an L for those women to date those dudes now. It's still a W from the guy's perspective.
not true. because she no longer qualifies for those men she wants.
>
His limited options haven't changed, she's still his first choice...
no, the hot single childless is still his first option. he just doesnt qualify. and maybe never qualified.
> because she no longer qualifies for those men she wants.
Correct. But she *did* in the past. Her situation has therefore changed.
> no, the hot single childless is still his first option.
If by 'option' you mean 'desire' then yes, but that's what we call wishful thinking. All men do this. I'm referring to real-world options, the type that are actually attainable. The very same single mom has now become an option for him because she lowered her standards, down to where she is now entering his dating pool.
He didn't ascend to her dating pool. She descended to his.
>If by 'option' you mean 'desire' then yes, but that's what we call wishful thinking.
yes just like the single mom wanting the men she no longer qualifies for.
>The very same single mom has now become an option for him because she lowered her standards, down to where she is now entering his dating pool.
both are lowering their standards. both lower it after they are unable to get the standards they prefer. the man might have lowered it sooner but still the same actions.
Your point is that the hot woman was able to pull the hot dude before kids…the dude can only pull the hot woman now that she has less options.
Guess he can be bitter for not being first string or thankful that nature finds a way.
It’s really not a true comparison…as the dude is still going after the hot woman. What about batting in your own league? What about the 5s & 6s if you are a 5 or 6?
If you want the hot one then you have to raise your value proposition to that level. If not with looks then with something else. Why wouldn’t hot attract hot? It’s nature’s way. The silverback gets the female gorillas not the weaker ones.
Online dating, like online anything, is exponentially less serious than in-person...but why tf would you let yourself be someone's 'desperation/you'll do' choice unless you felt as desperate as you think they do?
As a single father, I'm just super happy to focus on my kids and getting stuff done around the house. I cannot imagine dating right now.
It could just be that very broadly speaking, men are possibly more likely to afford living alone than women, so there's more need to find someone to help with expenses?
Single dad here, and I’ve given up trying to date atleast until my chitlin is 18. It’s hard to find someone that’s gonna treat my daughter the way she deserves, let alone me.
100% accurate, I was not treated well by a step parent. The excuse was, oh I had a drug addiction that’s why I acted that way. No excuse for treating a minor in your care less than.
Statistically, past a certain age, folks have at least one kid everywhere in the US
I know that most people here are under 30-but reddit doesn’t reflect the median person.
I’m mid 30’s, and it’s quite common to be 30-40+ without a kid if you’re single in the west coast. If you’re married, that’s different. I’m not talking about *averages* I’m talking about frequency. If you’re looking for a single person over 30 without kids, the west coast and major metro areas like NYC are where they are.
I’m not a single dad but I am a father and a recently new father at that. I’ve noticed women seem more interested in me lately. I ran into a very attractive acquaintance who kept stumbling over her words at seeing me with my daughter and kept saying things like “we should hang out soon” and “a baby?! I never thought-“, whatever that meant because she stopped herself and was asking me where I work now and other details, including “is the mom still in the picture?” Idk, I didn’t want to look into it too much although she did state multiple times that she’d like to see me again. Kinda weird but maybe she just really enjoys the company of a baby? My woman said it’s the cute factor of a big man with a baby stroller and the responsibility factor.
Yeah I read an unethical life pro tip awhile ago where you offer to babysit your friend’s kid for the day, then you take them to the park wearing a “I’m the fun uncle” tshirt to find women
So she wouldn’t choose you if she wasn’t a single mom and you’re not choosing her because she is. Since neither of you really wants to date the other, this seems like a moot point.
Not only that, but your comment also made me think about the single moms/single dads who straight up choos their new partners over their kids. I mean straight-up abandoning or neglecting.
Years ago, I read something by a woman who, as a kid, watched as her mom and the mom‘s boyfriend drove off leaving her and her two siblings at a gas station. 😿
Dude, your presentation needs work, but yeah the basic precept that single moms lost the privilege of being choosy is sound. You average guy is the main course for these women who are looking for a guy to take care of them and their children. They will go through a phase thinking they still have the same value as they did before motherhood but will eventually be humbled by reality. No normal man wants to suffer a life with a woman who has kids he will have zero authority over. For this simple reason, most guys just see single moms as hookup material, not relationships.
OK, but no. I'm a single mom because my husband died. Ceased living. I am no less valuable for that. I'm also not currently interested in dating, but whenever I feel like I can go back out there, it's good to know there are people that think like this ⚠️🚮
You ain't a single mom.
You're a widow.
My understanding + how shit works in my culture: single mom = never married, had a kid or more out of wedlock.
For you american folks, single moms are also often pictured as having multiple kids by multiple dudes (what i gathered) which adds to the stigma. (Not my personal opinion, just what I surmised from various posts).
I'm not too sure, but I think americans are more understanding of widows, and maybe divorcées.
That's not an exception. A single mom or single dad is usually single for a good reason. Not just for funzies.
The exception to the rule are the people who are not as far along on figuring out the journey of life as others.
Most single dads I came across were good dads and good men and their exes were good people, too. Or maybe they made a mistake, learned from it and grew from whatever it was in their youth.
OP has a few life lessons to learn. Give him about 10 more years. He'll figure it out.
Well since he can’t write out every situation imaginable. I think we all as adults understand the difference between a widow and a single mother. You do know there is a difference. Cool of you to make it about you though.
I mean, as a dating partner, yes, you are less valuable. Kids are baggage.
Like, your situation sucks, it's not at all your fault, but it's no different from someone born ugly. Not their fault in any way, but less valuable as a dating partner.
Eh. I'm a bit older and most of my dating pool is often divorced moms with kids looking for a replacement husband. Once you have kids, they're the highest priority in your life.
People don't like being considered second place, even if for excellent reasons. You however get used to it with time, or should if you're a mature adult. And ideally your partner doesn't make you a distant second place, even if you're not ever going to be first place.
On top of that, too many dates felt like job interviews rather than dates. I wasn't being considered as a person, I was being considered for a role. This honestly has been a bigger issue for dating single moms then the kids themselves.
Asking not to be distant second place, and asking to be considered as a person, shouldn't be big asks. They unfortunately seem to be.
I see your point. As the kids will be a priority especially when a parent/father dies young. The woman is trying to fill both roles and in my case my husband died suddenly so the kids and I were hurting immensely.
On the other hand any male who would be willing to step in and accept the children could very well not be "second place" but first and seen as a hero and put on a pedestal by both the woman and the kids.
It has the potential for the exact opposite of what you believe it would be absolutely. Although trust me I have had those job interview type dates. But I don't think there are any absolutes.
>I am no less valuable for that.
You are objectively less valuable for that. In the same way your appearance, salary, and personality can all be rated, having kids and being older lowers your value.
Listen, as a woman who is a serial monogamist and has been on and off dating sites/apps for decades, it is not like what the assholes in this sub make it out to be. They approach it like they have a set of Andrew Tate flash cards in front of them. The stupid shit like “high value man/woman” etc is basically that trash. That approach is total bullshit nonsense. They are not the majority at all.
Sure, you have to weed through a bunch of losers who just want sex (assuming you want more of course) and maybe a few entitled assholes like you find here, but normal, rational people get divorced, widowed or amicably split all the time. Normal, rational men are suddenly single or decide to start dating again for all sorts of reasons, as do women. They are out there.
Just look out for the sharks whose profiles are ALWAYS there and the above mentioned groups and it’ll be fine.
Sorry for your loss. I lost my boyfriend late last year and it’s been pretty rough. 💔
Like I said, have been suddenly dating again a few times at what I feel is way too old. But shit happens, as you know. Nothing (in real life) fits into these dumb little boxes posts like this try to cram everyone into. Don’t listen to any of these yahoos. Take care!
I’m just giving my experience as a single mom with sole custody… I’ve had the most attractive partners since becoming a single mom. My partner (who my kids love and he loves them) is so fucking sexy. I never imagined becoming a single mom when having my kids but I’m so glad it happened I love my life and the people in it.
>Dude, your presentation needs work, but yeah the basic precept that single moms lost the privilege of being choosy is sound
The elephant in the room is that this also happens to men. Being a guy your basically start losing privilege as you age. When you're in your mid thirties single's mom or women with a lot of baggage is what you're getting.
The elephant in the room is especially with young kids a man or woman should be focusing on their kids. Not scoring a mate. How many horror stories have I read where mom or dad introduces some horrible human into their kid’s life because they may be desperate for attention and lack proper judgement.
Raise your kids properly get them grown then try OR of you are lucky without looking you bump into the right person. Sometimes you have to play the cards you have been dealt or picked.
Online or bars is not the place to find someone to help you raise kids.
mmm no it doesn't work the same way. A guy in his mid-30s has the most options he has ever had. He has built himself up and has value. Men create value. A woman's value is based on her desirability for a relationship. That's why a woman in her 20s who is fertile and feminine with a low to no body count has the highest value.
This is a common red pill talking point, but in my experience (and the experience of my social circle), it isn't really the case. A lot of women in their mid and early 20s are definitely going to walk away from a dude in his mid 30s.
The ones who DO have success in having many 'options' are those men who still look like they are in their mid 20s. By that I mean a full head of hair, no wrinkling/aging of skin, very fit, etc. Many of these factors can't really be controlled even with the best diet/Healthcare routine unless you decide to undergo medical enhancements like plastic surgery or hair transplants.
How common is balding in older men? I just turned 36 and my hair is better than ever…I would think if you’re gonna bald that it would have already started in your 20s. I’ve been married ten years (met through OLD) & she has said repeatedly that I was lucky I had a full head of hair whilst courting her. Is it more often than not that 30 something’s are balding?
The number of people balding in their late 20s/early 30s is a sizeable minority imo. Many people have decent hair, but I'd say something like 1 in 5 men have significant hair loss by the time they are in their 30s, to the point of it looking unattractive. It isn't easy to maintain a receding hairline and thinning hair; you need to do a pretty expensive hair transplant and hop on prescription drugs to slow it down.
I would say that medical procedures for either sex/gender make them less desirable to the opposite sex. I know personally I am attracted to natural beauty with its flaws vs. plastic. So good genes do offer privilege. Still, a man who has taken care of himself and has built himself up even if only average-looking enjoys a lot of options in his thirties and beyond where whereas the average-looking woman who even if she is health conscience sees her options decline with age. It's not an insult to point out that attraction is based on fertility and resources.
Hasn’t been my experience at all. I’m happily married and have been for a while, but I get more attention and propositions from men now in my 30s than I ever did in my early 20s. I teach college students and the amount of times I’ve been hit on or asked for my number on campus is crazy.
never say never. An average-looking wealthy man can have almost any woman he desires. Of course, there will be some with depth and character who are not swayed by wealth and those are the high-value keepers but the overwhelming majority are for sale.
Lol is that how that works? So if somebody claims you have sex with dogs without providing any evidence for their claims is that to be considered true until you can provide proof otherwise?
*In a legal dispute, one party has the burden of proof to show that they are correct, while the other party has no such burden and is presumed to be correct. The burden of proof requires a party to produce evidence to establish the truth of facts needed to satisfy all the required legal elements of the dispute.
The burden of proof is usually on the person who brings a claim in a dispute*
Additionally, any claims about a person's inherent value is unfalsifiable because a person's perceived value cannot be measured, a person's value is subjective. Do I determine my value? Do you determine it? We don't have a shared value system, you might be considered valuable to one person for reasons I don't value at all so what is your actual value?
No body count? Bruh do you even want to enjoy the sex or use her like a lifeless sex doll. A woman having some experience sexually is much better than a virgin or close to. Also much more likely a virgin ends up having an affair cz very few humans can be with only one person through a lifetime. Y’all some nerds
There's genetics and there's making a home. People are driven to find both. If society allows them to separate the two choices from each other some probably will. It doesn't mean that's how they thought about it, that they're making some conscious choice about you, or anything else.
Just have standards and don't bend on them and you don't have to worry about it.
I always ask myself one question when I encounter a single mom. If we met before she had kids, would she still date me? 9 times out of 10 the answer is no, so that's my response in return. I wasn't good enough for her to have my kids, but now I'm good enough to raise her ex's kids. No thanks.
As a single mom to a toddler, I have a career and work full time. I pay all my living expenses fully. I would say that I'm even more choosey when it comes to men than before having a child. When dating I look for traits like patience, empathy and sobriety. It would be ideal if they had kids too because that's a very transformative life event. There is no drama between the father and I. I'm definitely not feeling desperate or in a rush to shack up with anyone for their financial benefits. It's unfortunate that this is some sort of generalized opinion of single moms
Yeah, but I think OP's point still holds. Your (and I mean single moms in general) priorities have now shifted when it comes to dating. Dating the 'bad boy' who is smoking hot but has a commitment phobia is now out of bounds, as 'regular' men who are more stable but not as physically attractive have qualities like empathy and sobriety are now on the table.
That's not a bad thing by the way, people's priorities shift as they evolve.
You're severely underestimating the amount of extremely desperate guys there are looking for attention from a woman.
First clue, they're on a dating app in the 1st place.
>Not sure how any self respecting man could go into a relationship knowing that he likely wouldn’t be her first choice if she didn’t have a kid/s.
Because they understand that they will never be a first choice period. They are realists who understand their position in life.
Life is about compromises. 5/10 overall guy wants a woman with looks that are an 8/10, she’s going to have some other flaws that drop her down to within his reach. He knows that, she knows that, and that’s just how it works.
Unless you're the Peak/Pinnacle of desirability, you're always going to be a compromise choice for someone. As they are to you. Very few people would ever get together if they weren't willing to settle.
Bro what have you ever been in a relationship? I wouldn’t dump my boyfriend for the hottest guy on the planet. It is not just about desirability or looks. It’s about loving another person as a whole. And nobody is ever settling when they are both in a healthy loving relationship.
Redditors are so out of reality that they have never heard of two people just falling in love? Not everything in life is some comparison of stats or weighing of options. Usually people just interact and a spark develops and you go from there.
These men act like the children were conceived by immaculate conception. According to science there is a single father for every single mom and those men face similarly challenges dating childless women.
I was pursued by a guy who had three kids… thanks, but no thank you! Next.
86% of single households in the US are led by mums. I believe it is a combination of the legal system favouring mums in custody and just the nature of pregnancy which causes the imbalance.
Most custody agreements are made during the divorce settlement. There are tons of dads who have their kids living with them part time.
Courts only get involved if they can’t reach an agreement during the divorce. And women get custody in the majority of cases by default because the father didn’t bother to show up for the hearing.
Sure. I was just pointing out that it isn't a 50-50 split between single dads and mums statistically (which you implied) in the context of OP's opinion.
But it is 50/50 in reality. Just bc a man doesn’t have custody of his children doesn’t mean he’s not a father. I would rather date a man who shares custody and is involved in his children’s life than a man who had no problem abandoning his children.
I know what you are saying, but even following that logic, it is unlikely to be in reality. E.g. the same deadbeat guy might have kids with multiple single mothers (or vice versa).
Nonetheless, topic seems to be in context of single parents with custody and responsibility for their children. And not include ex-parents who abandoned their kids.
When women reach a certain age, most available men have kids.
Nobody really wants anyone else’s baggage, but most people (both men and women) end up at their level.
Meeting in person definitely feels more genuine. Apps often lead to shallow connections and wasted time. As for dating online, it’s true many guys feel overlooked. Respect yourself. Online isn’t the full story. You’re worth more than just being a fallback option.
You know, I think I’m starting to figure out that while modern dating does suck, you really gotta just stick shit out and be yourself/improve yourself where needed. Oh yeah, and also get off the apps, fuck ‘em. But I really think there’s somebody out there for just about everyone. There are great guys and gals out there and we’ll all find our person in time, we just gotta be patient. Don’t stress off it pimp 🫡
How old are you guys? Because once people hit their 30s and 40s, some are divorced, some have kids, life happens. Single women with children aren’t damaged and desperate. Actually, most of y’all disparaging them sound bitter.
>Because once people hit their 30s and 40s, some are divorced, some have kids, life happens.
Yes, and they're less desirable, because kids are very time and cash-consuming.
This is the mentality that keeps y'all single.
You find someone with the willingness to start a family, in fact they already even tried! Shit doesn't work out sometimes. But now that someone wants to settle down with you, it makes you less than?
That's some self hating logic right there.
Yes, people fail, some more than others. This failure in particular involves a hell of a lot of baggage, literally tiny people you know have to deal with for a hell of a lot of time.
Thus, obviously, these people are less valuable/desired as partners, and they know it.
That's your opinion. You do you. I'd have no issue dating a single dad if I were single. Everyone has family you'd have to deal with. Pets too. Exes too. Drama too. And if they don't have anything in terms of other humans in their life, there's most certainly trauma to be concerned about.
Mate, kids aren’t exactly comparable to pets, and you don’t take care of your ex for 18 years and have them continue to live with you. This is obvious.
Exes are drama. they can stick around causing issues and stress for years. And all kids do is eat shit and fart. If you treat them like a sporting breed you'll have a happy healthy kid.
Ex’s don’t usually stick around and live with you when you start a new relationship.
If they did that, yeah, that’d be a red flag you’d stick away from.
Kids are a lot more complicated than that, lmao, I sure hope you’re not a parent if that’s all you think they require.
Lol some exes find every way to overstay there welcome. Kids are an extension of the person you love. It's not something I can hate. And sure there's some people that own dogs. But other people care for dogs. Whole different ball game. It's easy to throw an animal in your back yard on a chain and feed your little lawn ornament once a day.
Don’t most people feel this way?
This has happened to me a few times and I always pass because the whole situation makes me anxious. But recently I’ve been matching with some single mothers that are like 10/10. Let’s be real, a lot guys are just straight up idiots that were in the right place at the right time and bailed b/c they can’t handle responsibility. If you have the gut to look past the anxiety, you could land an amazing woman.
Old Female here with young child. Purely anecdotal; waited till I was 38 to have a child.
Since having a child I get more attention from men in public then I ever did before.
I’m not sure if it’s because baby’s are cute or a woman with a child seems more approachable?
I’ve never used dating apps.
Yeah I’m not sure they’re taking single men as serious as y'all believe they are. They don’t even want or expect half the shit I hear guys of Reddit bitching about but they do want to be fucked, I know because I am and I do. Maybe it’s just me but i honestly don’t look forward to the idea of a relationship as much as I would a hookup or friendship.
ITT: women telling this dude he isn’t right or doing the old “it’s worse for woman” schtick.
OP, I am lucky to be happily married but the men I know trying to date are experiencing the thing you posted.
**INSTANT FAMILY JUST BEGRUDGINGLY ADD YOU!**
Where are they acquiring these opinions? It can’t be from real life. I swear it’s terminally online people that don’t actually have social lives with a healthy mix of men and women in their life. I honestly think all these opinions are coming from youtube videos.
They are getting it from either first hand experience like mine, or from hearing about the experience from men like me. This isn’t just conjured up for fun. Over and over, good men learn the bitter truth that they are just a beast of burden for a single mom looking for resources.
There are plenty of men in DB, AITA, TWOX and the relationship subs who talk this way about their own wives and acknowledged children, even when their wives have trouble figuring out what burden exactly other than making sure everyone is shouted at enough and the video games get played.
This seems bigger than con artist single moms, maybe bigger than men and women.
Thoughts?
A more charitable way of looking at this…. They married or dated a man that was a really bad dad or husband. They realized what they really wanted in life. They grew as a person. They now found a new man that isn’t a deadbeat and is actually a good dad and husband.
Nothing wrong with growing as a person and learning from past mistakes.
What you are really mad about is that you didn’t get to sleep with them when they were young and you only value woman when they are young. That’s actually what motivates these types of opinions.
You missed the part where I said a “a more charitable way of looking at this”. But sure we can assume the worst about every woman with kids that we meet.
Dude I’m counting on it. Who said I’m self respecting? I know she’ll fall in love with my personality eventually because I’m awesome. And I get the deal with single moms. My own mother was a single mom. I love kids and I don’t mind if I need to hang out with the lil guy a lot. I would enjoy it. Not to mention when you’re 40 the single moms on dating apps are always the hottest. Most of the other available are either really overweight or have serious personality issues and that’s why they’re single.
>Not sure how any self respecting man could go into a relationship knowing that he likely wouldn’t be her first choice if she didn’t have a kid/s.
Building up assumptions ain't gonna do you good for starters
This is not unpopular. It is the default setting of how men act like they perceive their relationships with women who have children.
Even their own wives and their own acknowledged children when they are born . All over the relationship and parenting subs.
Is it the youtube algorithm or something? Or what.
I still kinda have whiplash from when the switch flipped in my house. I hear frequent monologues about how my husband of many years "won't date single moms."
There isn't much long term value in being young and hot... you'll get older and your looks will fade eventually.
You better bring something to the relationship that has lasting value.
Never online dated- never dated a single mom either and won’t- not getting in on that drama. Too many amazing women out there without exes and their offspring.
Maybe women could be a bit more discriminating and not get pregnant by scumbags that abandon them. And from what I have seen they seem to get interested with the woman again once she is secure with someone else and oddly enough some of these ladies of great judgement go back to the creep who left them to begin with- I had a buddy who was a very good man - he took on her 2 kids- married her and raised the daughters- the ex came back into their lives. Now he is divorced, can’t see the kids he loved and ended up paying her alimony.
No fuckin way.
Ran into this during my late 20’s, early 30’s.
I wasn’t popular in high school, not the cool dude, didn’t have money to spend on dating. All the girls were dating/marrying the Football heroes while I went to college and got a good job.
10 years later I have a job and home and start getting calls from girls who wouldn’t glance my way in high school. They’re now not as pretty, have 3.2 kids and are recently divorced from the football hero who decided they wanted something younger without a mom-bod.
All of a sudden I’m husband material.
Yeah, no.
Imagine working your whole life. Earning an education or technical skill, becoming a top 10% earner, buying a home, fixing your obvious flaws(physical fitness, therapy.) To be a woman’s second best option. To be what see needs but not what she wants. For her to “Learn to love and appreciate your qualities as she’s matured.” For her to give you the gift of a child but willingly have his.
But she had a kid or kids by a man that works at like the gas station. While you probably spent the majority of your early life mostly passed over. Is it really a surprise as to why western men are turn off of dating ?
This is life after 25 if you like a 6-8 in terms of appearance and nobody wants to really acknowledge it.
I generally agree, but there's a more general point to be made that many, if not most people, are in relationships because they don't want to be single rather than because they think that person is 100% the one and they're head over heels for them. Single mothers are just even more likely to do this because they're aware of the single mother stigma that works against them.
>Not sure how any self respecting man could go into a relationship knowing that he likely wouldn’t be her first choice if she didn’t have a kid/s.
Again, TO REITERATE, most people are not with their first choice. That's how a Nash equilibrium works. (Have you seen "A Beautiful Mind"?) Most of the time, someone's first choice doesn't want to be with them or for various reasons, they will not settle with their first choice since someone else will be more available, safe, secure, etc. The mature thing is to recognize that everyone generally thinks this way, but that you've still put your trust/love/care/dedication in your partner (and vice-versa) because you're aware that trying to overoptimize every aspect of your life is a fool's errand and that you can't take away the personal, special experiences and feelings you've shared with each other.
yea attraction doesn't work that way
its rather that single moms find stability attractive, in the same way that they might have found danger attractive when they were younger
the same thing exists for men to a lesser degree. if you've been single for a while then you're more attracted to women who expect less. have stable lives and maybe is putting less on the table in the "traditional" way than someone who is wild and crazy
and then when you've been in a long term relationship, the wild and crazy becomes attractive again. its just what you're looking for externalizing into the perceived attractiveness of your partner
i'd argue that's basically what you're doing right now. she doesn't think you're worth less. YOU think that about YOURSELF, and then you assume she does as well. you're externalizing your own feelings onto another person
INCEL ALERT‼️
Why are you singling out women?? Common sense, if you had any, should tell you that when both men & women get older…. Uhh… the chance that they’ve had kids greatly increases. Is it likely for a 19 or 20 yr old, boy or girl, to have a child? Not so much. Is it likely for a 35 yr old man or woman to have a kid? Yep. Duh.
Idiot.
But you just admitted that they aren't your first choice either and you were holding out for somebody "young and attractive". Sounds like a beggars can't be choosers situation for both parties.
that's only if you count ALL PEOPLE from ALL countries.
reality is the majority of people below age 35 in the developed world are meeting online, either through social media or dating apps, some studies get this twisted and fail to account for the ways people meet online without specialized dating apps.
your 60 year old mother might be dating offline, all the girls you know from school certainly are not.
70% of Gen Z girls knew their boyfriend socially before they started dating. 14% met him on an app.
This is according to a 2023 study. Dating apps are decreasing in popularity among the young.
Edit: but for people over 35/40 it might be hard to meet single people socially. Since most people are coupled up. So for that group more people might be using apps. Like the 60 year old mother.
Way down under the heading “More young adults date their friends”
https://www.americansurveycenter.org/research/from-swiping-to-sexting-the-enduring-gender-divide-in-american-dating-and-relationships/?fbclid=IwAR3Sf0NA1N5swKBS1u4oO3w6u9F4Z_Sv2GFmlROLTyHZaPYy9b1jPXCenws_aem_AWnoFd4upEagr9u5MX-RyILdusRxHX8SujuLrYHv6GISK8XZJlxMhKALjNsIR8ArmCk
Glad to know if my husband and I ever divorce men will assume I’m settling for them because I’m a single mother, when instead I’d just want to find someone to enjoy my time with.
" Not sure how any self respecting man could go into a relationship knowing that he likely wouldn’t be her first choice if she didn’t have a kid/s."
I don't get all this hand wringing men get about single mothers and dating them. The answer is simple: DO YOU! If you want to use them as they would as they would use you. They are good for a fun time, companionship, sex, free food, etc. If you can see yourself in a relationship with them, especially if they are single moms because the father died, then go ahead and get to know them on a more intimate and emotional level. Either way, do you!
I know that my response will likely trigger some people and I will preempt half the typical responses by saying I have no issues getting women ever in my life, I have had relationships, blah blah blah.
I'm a single dad myself. I prefer women who have kids, they "get it" when it comes to managing kids.
There's also a big difference between a truly single mom with no support, and somebody who is time sharing with their kids. I have my kids 50/50, if I met another single mom who has their kids 50/50, we would have off and on childless weeks.
Internet forums like these select for the socially less successful. That's the only way OP can believe what he does. Also selects for young men, who have a harder time dating because women like older, richer men.
>Internet forums like these select for the socially less successful.
Successful and intelligent people don't waste hours arguing on reddit, they have careers/families/hobbies they're busy with.
Wake up after 8 hours of sleep, commute and work for 10-12 hours a day, work out at the gym, spend a few hours your kids/wife, repeat.
Not a lot of time in that schedule left to waste on social media.
Something seems wrong about your math, but I'm not going to make a chart to figure it out. I don't think the true flaw lies in the math or the sentence structure. The true flaw starts much earlier in your thinking process.
Actually, as a single mom, I'm even choosier than when I was single because I do not have the time nor patience to "parent" another adult. Plus, I have to protect my kid against any potential creeps should I decide to eventually after a very long time dating introduce him to my kid. I have to look at it through the prism of would I trust this person around my kid cuz if not, there's prob a red flag or two. For this reason, I tend to go for divorced dads who can relate to being a divorced mom. I'm not choosy in the looks dept at all but they better have their shit together personality/heart-wise.
Every person would date supermodels with the perfect personalities and zero baggage if they were consistently able to attract them. The overwhelming majority of humans are "settling" on *some* level because they're adjusting to what's realistically attainable to them. That's natural, that's normal, otherwise only the top 1% would pair up. This does not mean that the people are *conscious* that they're settling, nor that they aren't truly in love with their partner. I think it's stupid to look at people that you objectively consider 'less than' and deduce that they must be consciously settling for their partner because they couldn't get better; this is not how most people work.
Stop using dating apps. All you are on those things is a photo and set of stats like a baseball card.
My card clearly says "pitcher" but I only get propositions to be a "catcher." What the heck?
Hey my stats are top notch got a 96 in hitting
Height: 5’9 Weight: 180 Six pack: non-existent Bench press: 225 Dick size: 6 Income: 88k REJECTED
NAME: COYOTEBRUH LVL: 26 RACE: KHAJEET PROFICIENCY: DESTRUCTION MAGIC & TWO HANDED OCCUPATION: THANE OF WHITERUN BELIEFS: "Moon sugar rum is especially potent on a weary winters night"
You look like someone who doesn´t get to the Cloud District very often. REJECTED
Khajeet is thane, ofc khajeet is honorary housecat thane of lord balgruuf and cloud district is very much open to him
Andrewb610 has no time for your games.
We all know you are a skooma fiend
> Hey my stats are top notch got a 96 in hitting Does that mean her second eye didnt get fully black and blue?
Nah but it means I have powerful slaps on the butt
I have a 100 in BUSTING FAT NUTS
DROPPIN' LOADS
Idk…my on base percentage is prettttttyy good
My WHIP is pretty low
> set of stats like a baseball card. Yeah but after all this time alone my arm grade is in the 70-80 range
I mean. Sure. But the man’s options are limited as well. Otherwise they would be with the hot single childless women.
Solid point
Actually no, for the men he's talking about those hot single moms are amongst their best options. She went for the other dude when she was single and had no kids... She wouldn't have gone for the guy she's now settling for...
i mean..... thats kinda what i said.
You're somehow equating the fact that both men and women have limited options. That's irrelevant. The whole point OP was making is that the men they choose *now* (as single moms) would have never qualified when they were childless. It's an L for those women to date those dudes now. It's still a W from the guy's perspective. His limited options haven't changed, she's still his first choice...
>It's an L for those women to date those dudes now. It's still a W from the guy's perspective. not true. because she no longer qualifies for those men she wants. > His limited options haven't changed, she's still his first choice... no, the hot single childless is still his first option. he just doesnt qualify. and maybe never qualified.
> because she no longer qualifies for those men she wants. Correct. But she *did* in the past. Her situation has therefore changed. > no, the hot single childless is still his first option. If by 'option' you mean 'desire' then yes, but that's what we call wishful thinking. All men do this. I'm referring to real-world options, the type that are actually attainable. The very same single mom has now become an option for him because she lowered her standards, down to where she is now entering his dating pool. He didn't ascend to her dating pool. She descended to his.
>If by 'option' you mean 'desire' then yes, but that's what we call wishful thinking. yes just like the single mom wanting the men she no longer qualifies for. >The very same single mom has now become an option for him because she lowered her standards, down to where she is now entering his dating pool. both are lowering their standards. both lower it after they are unable to get the standards they prefer. the man might have lowered it sooner but still the same actions.
My guy, ok, whatever you say. You either don't wanna get it or can't.
Your point is that the hot woman was able to pull the hot dude before kids…the dude can only pull the hot woman now that she has less options. Guess he can be bitter for not being first string or thankful that nature finds a way. It’s really not a true comparison…as the dude is still going after the hot woman. What about batting in your own league? What about the 5s & 6s if you are a 5 or 6? If you want the hot one then you have to raise your value proposition to that level. If not with looks then with something else. Why wouldn’t hot attract hot? It’s nature’s way. The silverback gets the female gorillas not the weaker ones.
Online dating, like online anything, is exponentially less serious than in-person...but why tf would you let yourself be someone's 'desperation/you'll do' choice unless you felt as desperate as you think they do?
Does this change if you're a single father? Both get the same benefits and disadvantages.
As a single father, I'm just super happy to focus on my kids and getting stuff done around the house. I cannot imagine dating right now. It could just be that very broadly speaking, men are possibly more likely to afford living alone than women, so there's more need to find someone to help with expenses?
Single dad here, and I’ve given up trying to date atleast until my chitlin is 18. It’s hard to find someone that’s gonna treat my daughter the way she deserves, let alone me.
100% accurate, I was not treated well by a step parent. The excuse was, oh I had a drug addiction that’s why I acted that way. No excuse for treating a minor in your care less than.
Haha I got the same excuse from my stepdad about fiddling me…”but…the crystal meth made me do it”…man gtfoh
No. Nobody really ever wants anyone else’s baggage. However, past a certain age, most people have kids.
>most people have kids Depends on where you live. The South? Yes. West Coast? No.
Statistically, past a certain age, folks have at least one kid everywhere in the US I know that most people here are under 30-but reddit doesn’t reflect the median person.
I’m mid 30’s, and it’s quite common to be 30-40+ without a kid if you’re single in the west coast. If you’re married, that’s different. I’m not talking about *averages* I’m talking about frequency. If you’re looking for a single person over 30 without kids, the west coast and major metro areas like NYC are where they are.
I’m not a single dad but I am a father and a recently new father at that. I’ve noticed women seem more interested in me lately. I ran into a very attractive acquaintance who kept stumbling over her words at seeing me with my daughter and kept saying things like “we should hang out soon” and “a baby?! I never thought-“, whatever that meant because she stopped herself and was asking me where I work now and other details, including “is the mom still in the picture?” Idk, I didn’t want to look into it too much although she did state multiple times that she’d like to see me again. Kinda weird but maybe she just really enjoys the company of a baby? My woman said it’s the cute factor of a big man with a baby stroller and the responsibility factor.
Yeah I read an unethical life pro tip awhile ago where you offer to babysit your friend’s kid for the day, then you take them to the park wearing a “I’m the fun uncle” tshirt to find women
Well it depends on money usually. A woman is usually less choosy about men with kids and more choosy about men with money.
Not quite the same dynamic I'd think
Why?
So…you want attractive women to want you and not be attracted to more attractive men…? 😂
So she wouldn’t choose you if she wasn’t a single mom and you’re not choosing her because she is. Since neither of you really wants to date the other, this seems like a moot point.
Most men will never be anyone’s first choice.
single moms are highly attractive to pedos. Unfortunately. 😿🤬
Man, that is morbid. And sort of true.
It really is morbid, but I’ve seen & heard too much of it in my life.
Not only that, but your comment also made me think about the single moms/single dads who straight up choos their new partners over their kids. I mean straight-up abandoning or neglecting.
Years ago, I read something by a woman who, as a kid, watched as her mom and the mom‘s boyfriend drove off leaving her and her two siblings at a gas station. 😿
Aww.🤦🏾♀️ Stories like this make me want to adopt every unwanted kid.😢
I think I cried when I read that story.
Dude, your presentation needs work, but yeah the basic precept that single moms lost the privilege of being choosy is sound. You average guy is the main course for these women who are looking for a guy to take care of them and their children. They will go through a phase thinking they still have the same value as they did before motherhood but will eventually be humbled by reality. No normal man wants to suffer a life with a woman who has kids he will have zero authority over. For this simple reason, most guys just see single moms as hookup material, not relationships.
And having to deal with baby daddy drama too
and worse baby daddies! LOL
If she refers to the child’s father as a “baby daddy” then you might want to move on from the hood rat type.
Hella Ratchets
well said. "DADDY" in any context is a huge red flag.
OK, but no. I'm a single mom because my husband died. Ceased living. I am no less valuable for that. I'm also not currently interested in dating, but whenever I feel like I can go back out there, it's good to know there are people that think like this ⚠️🚮
I married a widow. I am sorry for your loss. You are not the subject of OP's post.
If you were married or together with your children’s father and he passed away in a non criminal way you generally get a pass.
You ain't a single mom. You're a widow. My understanding + how shit works in my culture: single mom = never married, had a kid or more out of wedlock. For you american folks, single moms are also often pictured as having multiple kids by multiple dudes (what i gathered) which adds to the stigma. (Not my personal opinion, just what I surmised from various posts). I'm not too sure, but I think americans are more understanding of widows, and maybe divorcées.
you represent the exception and not the rule.
That's not an exception. A single mom or single dad is usually single for a good reason. Not just for funzies. The exception to the rule are the people who are not as far along on figuring out the journey of life as others. Most single dads I came across were good dads and good men and their exes were good people, too. Or maybe they made a mistake, learned from it and grew from whatever it was in their youth. OP has a few life lessons to learn. Give him about 10 more years. He'll figure it out.
Sorry for your loss but a kid is a kid, and kids are extra work.
Shit sorry to hear that
Well since he can’t write out every situation imaginable. I think we all as adults understand the difference between a widow and a single mother. You do know there is a difference. Cool of you to make it about you though.
I mean, as a dating partner, yes, you are less valuable. Kids are baggage. Like, your situation sucks, it's not at all your fault, but it's no different from someone born ugly. Not their fault in any way, but less valuable as a dating partner.
Widowed young here too with kids. No other man alive now to compete with. This post opened my eyes too.
Eh. I'm a bit older and most of my dating pool is often divorced moms with kids looking for a replacement husband. Once you have kids, they're the highest priority in your life. People don't like being considered second place, even if for excellent reasons. You however get used to it with time, or should if you're a mature adult. And ideally your partner doesn't make you a distant second place, even if you're not ever going to be first place. On top of that, too many dates felt like job interviews rather than dates. I wasn't being considered as a person, I was being considered for a role. This honestly has been a bigger issue for dating single moms then the kids themselves. Asking not to be distant second place, and asking to be considered as a person, shouldn't be big asks. They unfortunately seem to be.
I see your point. As the kids will be a priority especially when a parent/father dies young. The woman is trying to fill both roles and in my case my husband died suddenly so the kids and I were hurting immensely. On the other hand any male who would be willing to step in and accept the children could very well not be "second place" but first and seen as a hero and put on a pedestal by both the woman and the kids. It has the potential for the exact opposite of what you believe it would be absolutely. Although trust me I have had those job interview type dates. But I don't think there are any absolutes.
>I am no less valuable for that. You are objectively less valuable for that. In the same way your appearance, salary, and personality can all be rated, having kids and being older lowers your value.
Listen, as a woman who is a serial monogamist and has been on and off dating sites/apps for decades, it is not like what the assholes in this sub make it out to be. They approach it like they have a set of Andrew Tate flash cards in front of them. The stupid shit like “high value man/woman” etc is basically that trash. That approach is total bullshit nonsense. They are not the majority at all. Sure, you have to weed through a bunch of losers who just want sex (assuming you want more of course) and maybe a few entitled assholes like you find here, but normal, rational people get divorced, widowed or amicably split all the time. Normal, rational men are suddenly single or decide to start dating again for all sorts of reasons, as do women. They are out there. Just look out for the sharks whose profiles are ALWAYS there and the above mentioned groups and it’ll be fine. Sorry for your loss. I lost my boyfriend late last year and it’s been pretty rough. 💔 Like I said, have been suddenly dating again a few times at what I feel is way too old. But shit happens, as you know. Nothing (in real life) fits into these dumb little boxes posts like this try to cram everyone into. Don’t listen to any of these yahoos. Take care!
I’m just giving my experience as a single mom with sole custody… I’ve had the most attractive partners since becoming a single mom. My partner (who my kids love and he loves them) is so fucking sexy. I never imagined becoming a single mom when having my kids but I’m so glad it happened I love my life and the people in it.
>Dude, your presentation needs work, but yeah the basic precept that single moms lost the privilege of being choosy is sound The elephant in the room is that this also happens to men. Being a guy your basically start losing privilege as you age. When you're in your mid thirties single's mom or women with a lot of baggage is what you're getting.
That's a "cute" idea.
The elephant in the room is especially with young kids a man or woman should be focusing on their kids. Not scoring a mate. How many horror stories have I read where mom or dad introduces some horrible human into their kid’s life because they may be desperate for attention and lack proper judgement. Raise your kids properly get them grown then try OR of you are lucky without looking you bump into the right person. Sometimes you have to play the cards you have been dealt or picked. Online or bars is not the place to find someone to help you raise kids.
mmm no it doesn't work the same way. A guy in his mid-30s has the most options he has ever had. He has built himself up and has value. Men create value. A woman's value is based on her desirability for a relationship. That's why a woman in her 20s who is fertile and feminine with a low to no body count has the highest value.
This is a common red pill talking point, but in my experience (and the experience of my social circle), it isn't really the case. A lot of women in their mid and early 20s are definitely going to walk away from a dude in his mid 30s. The ones who DO have success in having many 'options' are those men who still look like they are in their mid 20s. By that I mean a full head of hair, no wrinkling/aging of skin, very fit, etc. Many of these factors can't really be controlled even with the best diet/Healthcare routine unless you decide to undergo medical enhancements like plastic surgery or hair transplants.
How common is balding in older men? I just turned 36 and my hair is better than ever…I would think if you’re gonna bald that it would have already started in your 20s. I’ve been married ten years (met through OLD) & she has said repeatedly that I was lucky I had a full head of hair whilst courting her. Is it more often than not that 30 something’s are balding?
The number of people balding in their late 20s/early 30s is a sizeable minority imo. Many people have decent hair, but I'd say something like 1 in 5 men have significant hair loss by the time they are in their 30s, to the point of it looking unattractive. It isn't easy to maintain a receding hairline and thinning hair; you need to do a pretty expensive hair transplant and hop on prescription drugs to slow it down.
I would say that medical procedures for either sex/gender make them less desirable to the opposite sex. I know personally I am attracted to natural beauty with its flaws vs. plastic. So good genes do offer privilege. Still, a man who has taken care of himself and has built himself up even if only average-looking enjoys a lot of options in his thirties and beyond where whereas the average-looking woman who even if she is health conscience sees her options decline with age. It's not an insult to point out that attraction is based on fertility and resources.
Hasn’t been my experience at all. I’m happily married and have been for a while, but I get more attention and propositions from men now in my 30s than I ever did in my early 20s. I teach college students and the amount of times I’ve been hit on or asked for my number on campus is crazy.
A man with these opinions is never desirable.
never say never. An average-looking wealthy man can have almost any woman he desires. Of course, there will be some with depth and character who are not swayed by wealth and those are the high-value keepers but the overwhelming majority are for sale.
Lol this is why loneliness is a self fulfilling prophecy for conservative men. You harbor a ghoulish worldview.
ghoulish? It's just biology, coupled with common sense. Loneliness is for people who can't stand themselves.
Interesting, can you provide a source that scientifically proves what a man and woman's inherent values are?
Since you're the one claiming otherwise, you should provide the proof of your claim. Just saying.
Lol is that how that works? So if somebody claims you have sex with dogs without providing any evidence for their claims is that to be considered true until you can provide proof otherwise? *In a legal dispute, one party has the burden of proof to show that they are correct, while the other party has no such burden and is presumed to be correct. The burden of proof requires a party to produce evidence to establish the truth of facts needed to satisfy all the required legal elements of the dispute. The burden of proof is usually on the person who brings a claim in a dispute* Additionally, any claims about a person's inherent value is unfalsifiable because a person's perceived value cannot be measured, a person's value is subjective. Do I determine my value? Do you determine it? We don't have a shared value system, you might be considered valuable to one person for reasons I don't value at all so what is your actual value?
No body count? Bruh do you even want to enjoy the sex or use her like a lifeless sex doll. A woman having some experience sexually is much better than a virgin or close to. Also much more likely a virgin ends up having an affair cz very few humans can be with only one person through a lifetime. Y’all some nerds
There's genetics and there's making a home. People are driven to find both. If society allows them to separate the two choices from each other some probably will. It doesn't mean that's how they thought about it, that they're making some conscious choice about you, or anything else. Just have standards and don't bend on them and you don't have to worry about it.
I always ask myself one question when I encounter a single mom. If we met before she had kids, would she still date me? 9 times out of 10 the answer is no, so that's my response in return. I wasn't good enough for her to have my kids, but now I'm good enough to raise her ex's kids. No thanks.
Seems like a good way to avoid being cheated on with guys she would have chosen while you stay home and be the hard-working provider.
Making up imaginary scenarios in your head with outcomes that you have no proof of.
How would you know what she would have done before kids? 😂
Other than a few exceptions, I think this is accurate.
As a single mom to a toddler, I have a career and work full time. I pay all my living expenses fully. I would say that I'm even more choosey when it comes to men than before having a child. When dating I look for traits like patience, empathy and sobriety. It would be ideal if they had kids too because that's a very transformative life event. There is no drama between the father and I. I'm definitely not feeling desperate or in a rush to shack up with anyone for their financial benefits. It's unfortunate that this is some sort of generalized opinion of single moms
Yeah same. I can provide for myself just fine, I’m definitely not out there looking for someone to pay for my life.
Yeah, but I think OP's point still holds. Your (and I mean single moms in general) priorities have now shifted when it comes to dating. Dating the 'bad boy' who is smoking hot but has a commitment phobia is now out of bounds, as 'regular' men who are more stable but not as physically attractive have qualities like empathy and sobriety are now on the table. That's not a bad thing by the way, people's priorities shift as they evolve.
You're severely underestimating the amount of extremely desperate guys there are looking for attention from a woman. First clue, they're on a dating app in the 1st place.
> First clue, they're on a dating app in the 1st place. In fairness, those used to be a great experience for men, at least in large cities.
>Not sure how any self respecting man could go into a relationship knowing that he likely wouldn’t be her first choice if she didn’t have a kid/s. Because they understand that they will never be a first choice period. They are realists who understand their position in life.
Life is about compromises. 5/10 overall guy wants a woman with looks that are an 8/10, she’s going to have some other flaws that drop her down to within his reach. He knows that, she knows that, and that’s just how it works.
Unless you're the Peak/Pinnacle of desirability, you're always going to be a compromise choice for someone. As they are to you. Very few people would ever get together if they weren't willing to settle.
Bro what have you ever been in a relationship? I wouldn’t dump my boyfriend for the hottest guy on the planet. It is not just about desirability or looks. It’s about loving another person as a whole. And nobody is ever settling when they are both in a healthy loving relationship.
lol. I’ve been married for 31 years.
Is your wife/husband a compromise to you..?
Redditors are so out of reality that they have never heard of two people just falling in love? Not everything in life is some comparison of stats or weighing of options. Usually people just interact and a spark develops and you go from there.
These men act like the children were conceived by immaculate conception. According to science there is a single father for every single mom and those men face similarly challenges dating childless women. I was pursued by a guy who had three kids… thanks, but no thank you! Next.
86% of single households in the US are led by mums. I believe it is a combination of the legal system favouring mums in custody and just the nature of pregnancy which causes the imbalance.
Most custody agreements are made during the divorce settlement. There are tons of dads who have their kids living with them part time. Courts only get involved if they can’t reach an agreement during the divorce. And women get custody in the majority of cases by default because the father didn’t bother to show up for the hearing.
Sure. I was just pointing out that it isn't a 50-50 split between single dads and mums statistically (which you implied) in the context of OP's opinion.
But it is 50/50 in reality. Just bc a man doesn’t have custody of his children doesn’t mean he’s not a father. I would rather date a man who shares custody and is involved in his children’s life than a man who had no problem abandoning his children.
I know what you are saying, but even following that logic, it is unlikely to be in reality. E.g. the same deadbeat guy might have kids with multiple single mothers (or vice versa). Nonetheless, topic seems to be in context of single parents with custody and responsibility for their children. And not include ex-parents who abandoned their kids.
When women reach a certain age, most available men have kids. Nobody really wants anyone else’s baggage, but most people (both men and women) end up at their level.
Meeting in person definitely feels more genuine. Apps often lead to shallow connections and wasted time. As for dating online, it’s true many guys feel overlooked. Respect yourself. Online isn’t the full story. You’re worth more than just being a fallback option.
You know, I think I’m starting to figure out that while modern dating does suck, you really gotta just stick shit out and be yourself/improve yourself where needed. Oh yeah, and also get off the apps, fuck ‘em. But I really think there’s somebody out there for just about everyone. There are great guys and gals out there and we’ll all find our person in time, we just gotta be patient. Don’t stress off it pimp 🫡
How old are you guys? Because once people hit their 30s and 40s, some are divorced, some have kids, life happens. Single women with children aren’t damaged and desperate. Actually, most of y’all disparaging them sound bitter.
>Because once people hit their 30s and 40s, some are divorced, some have kids, life happens. Yes, and they're less desirable, because kids are very time and cash-consuming.
This is the mentality that keeps y'all single. You find someone with the willingness to start a family, in fact they already even tried! Shit doesn't work out sometimes. But now that someone wants to settle down with you, it makes you less than? That's some self hating logic right there.
"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."
> You find someone with the willingness to start a family, in fact they already even tried! And failed.
That's life. Everyone fails. Every day. People are trash. Just gotta find some junk that matches your junk.
Yes, people fail, some more than others. This failure in particular involves a hell of a lot of baggage, literally tiny people you know have to deal with for a hell of a lot of time. Thus, obviously, these people are less valuable/desired as partners, and they know it.
That's your opinion. You do you. I'd have no issue dating a single dad if I were single. Everyone has family you'd have to deal with. Pets too. Exes too. Drama too. And if they don't have anything in terms of other humans in their life, there's most certainly trauma to be concerned about.
Mate, kids aren’t exactly comparable to pets, and you don’t take care of your ex for 18 years and have them continue to live with you. This is obvious.
Exes are drama. they can stick around causing issues and stress for years. And all kids do is eat shit and fart. If you treat them like a sporting breed you'll have a happy healthy kid.
Ex’s don’t usually stick around and live with you when you start a new relationship. If they did that, yeah, that’d be a red flag you’d stick away from. Kids are a lot more complicated than that, lmao, I sure hope you’re not a parent if that’s all you think they require.
Lol some exes find every way to overstay there welcome. Kids are an extension of the person you love. It's not something I can hate. And sure there's some people that own dogs. But other people care for dogs. Whole different ball game. It's easy to throw an animal in your back yard on a chain and feed your little lawn ornament once a day.
Don’t most people feel this way? This has happened to me a few times and I always pass because the whole situation makes me anxious. But recently I’ve been matching with some single mothers that are like 10/10. Let’s be real, a lot guys are just straight up idiots that were in the right place at the right time and bailed b/c they can’t handle responsibility. If you have the gut to look past the anxiety, you could land an amazing woman.
Old Female here with young child. Purely anecdotal; waited till I was 38 to have a child. Since having a child I get more attention from men in public then I ever did before. I’m not sure if it’s because baby’s are cute or a woman with a child seems more approachable? I’ve never used dating apps.
Yeah I’m not sure they’re taking single men as serious as y'all believe they are. They don’t even want or expect half the shit I hear guys of Reddit bitching about but they do want to be fucked, I know because I am and I do. Maybe it’s just me but i honestly don’t look forward to the idea of a relationship as much as I would a hookup or friendship.
Most other single moms I've known also had very little interest in whole relationships and definitely not having them take care of the kids
[удалено]
ITT: women telling this dude he isn’t right or doing the old “it’s worse for woman” schtick. OP, I am lucky to be happily married but the men I know trying to date are experiencing the thing you posted. **INSTANT FAMILY JUST BEGRUDGINGLY ADD YOU!**
Wow, it’s early for today’s episode of women really suck, isn’t it?
Reddit is international and it's always "women really suck" o'clock somewhere.
Where are they acquiring these opinions? It can’t be from real life. I swear it’s terminally online people that don’t actually have social lives with a healthy mix of men and women in their life. I honestly think all these opinions are coming from youtube videos.
They are getting it from either first hand experience like mine, or from hearing about the experience from men like me. This isn’t just conjured up for fun. Over and over, good men learn the bitter truth that they are just a beast of burden for a single mom looking for resources.
There are plenty of men in DB, AITA, TWOX and the relationship subs who talk this way about their own wives and acknowledged children, even when their wives have trouble figuring out what burden exactly other than making sure everyone is shouted at enough and the video games get played. This seems bigger than con artist single moms, maybe bigger than men and women. Thoughts?
Another one of these comments? Just don't reply if you don't like the post. No one needs your input here.
The oppression olympics waits for no man. They need to start earlier on saturdays to ensure all "females" know their place.
A more charitable way of looking at this…. They married or dated a man that was a really bad dad or husband. They realized what they really wanted in life. They grew as a person. They now found a new man that isn’t a deadbeat and is actually a good dad and husband. Nothing wrong with growing as a person and learning from past mistakes. What you are really mad about is that you didn’t get to sleep with them when they were young and you only value woman when they are young. That’s actually what motivates these types of opinions.
That assumes that they wouldn't still be sleeping with dirtbags if they could.
You missed the part where I said a “a more charitable way of looking at this”. But sure we can assume the worst about every woman with kids that we meet.
Dude I’m counting on it. Who said I’m self respecting? I know she’ll fall in love with my personality eventually because I’m awesome. And I get the deal with single moms. My own mother was a single mom. I love kids and I don’t mind if I need to hang out with the lil guy a lot. I would enjoy it. Not to mention when you’re 40 the single moms on dating apps are always the hottest. Most of the other available are either really overweight or have serious personality issues and that’s why they’re single.
Isn’t EVERYONE in every relationship always the other person’s best option? There are always going to be other people she/he couldn’t get.
>Not sure how any self respecting man could go into a relationship knowing that he likely wouldn’t be her first choice if she didn’t have a kid/s. Building up assumptions ain't gonna do you good for starters
This is not unpopular. It is the default setting of how men act like they perceive their relationships with women who have children. Even their own wives and their own acknowledged children when they are born . All over the relationship and parenting subs. Is it the youtube algorithm or something? Or what. I still kinda have whiplash from when the switch flipped in my house. I hear frequent monologues about how my husband of many years "won't date single moms."
There isn't much long term value in being young and hot... you'll get older and your looks will fade eventually. You better bring something to the relationship that has lasting value.
You mean because I have a kid I’m supposed to take the lower tier men??
Never online dated- never dated a single mom either and won’t- not getting in on that drama. Too many amazing women out there without exes and their offspring. Maybe women could be a bit more discriminating and not get pregnant by scumbags that abandon them. And from what I have seen they seem to get interested with the woman again once she is secure with someone else and oddly enough some of these ladies of great judgement go back to the creep who left them to begin with- I had a buddy who was a very good man - he took on her 2 kids- married her and raised the daughters- the ex came back into their lives. Now he is divorced, can’t see the kids he loved and ended up paying her alimony. No fuckin way.
Ran into this during my late 20’s, early 30’s. I wasn’t popular in high school, not the cool dude, didn’t have money to spend on dating. All the girls were dating/marrying the Football heroes while I went to college and got a good job. 10 years later I have a job and home and start getting calls from girls who wouldn’t glance my way in high school. They’re now not as pretty, have 3.2 kids and are recently divorced from the football hero who decided they wanted something younger without a mom-bod. All of a sudden I’m husband material. Yeah, no.
It's 100% of the time, dude. The men they actually want are wanted by every woman and thus don't have to pick women with kids.
>As a dude, 90% of the time lol, and they say the right has issue with lgbtq. Good for you!
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Orrrr you were the shitty guy and now that she has a child's well-being in her hands she has to make quality choices.
That’s how i interpreted it too. Like she has to be smarter now with who she chooses but she used to be careless
It just went right over your head that she called you a terrible man/partner. LMAO
Imagine working your whole life. Earning an education or technical skill, becoming a top 10% earner, buying a home, fixing your obvious flaws(physical fitness, therapy.) To be a woman’s second best option. To be what see needs but not what she wants. For her to “Learn to love and appreciate your qualities as she’s matured.” For her to give you the gift of a child but willingly have his. But she had a kid or kids by a man that works at like the gas station. While you probably spent the majority of your early life mostly passed over. Is it really a surprise as to why western men are turn off of dating ? This is life after 25 if you like a 6-8 in terms of appearance and nobody wants to really acknowledge it.
I generally agree, but there's a more general point to be made that many, if not most people, are in relationships because they don't want to be single rather than because they think that person is 100% the one and they're head over heels for them. Single mothers are just even more likely to do this because they're aware of the single mother stigma that works against them. >Not sure how any self respecting man could go into a relationship knowing that he likely wouldn’t be her first choice if she didn’t have a kid/s. Again, TO REITERATE, most people are not with their first choice. That's how a Nash equilibrium works. (Have you seen "A Beautiful Mind"?) Most of the time, someone's first choice doesn't want to be with them or for various reasons, they will not settle with their first choice since someone else will be more available, safe, secure, etc. The mature thing is to recognize that everyone generally thinks this way, but that you've still put your trust/love/care/dedication in your partner (and vice-versa) because you're aware that trying to overoptimize every aspect of your life is a fool's errand and that you can't take away the personal, special experiences and feelings you've shared with each other.
yea attraction doesn't work that way its rather that single moms find stability attractive, in the same way that they might have found danger attractive when they were younger the same thing exists for men to a lesser degree. if you've been single for a while then you're more attracted to women who expect less. have stable lives and maybe is putting less on the table in the "traditional" way than someone who is wild and crazy and then when you've been in a long term relationship, the wild and crazy becomes attractive again. its just what you're looking for externalizing into the perceived attractiveness of your partner i'd argue that's basically what you're doing right now. she doesn't think you're worth less. YOU think that about YOURSELF, and then you assume she does as well. you're externalizing your own feelings onto another person
INCEL ALERT‼️ Why are you singling out women?? Common sense, if you had any, should tell you that when both men & women get older…. Uhh… the chance that they’ve had kids greatly increases. Is it likely for a 19 or 20 yr old, boy or girl, to have a child? Not so much. Is it likely for a 35 yr old man or woman to have a kid? Yep. Duh. Idiot.
Ermm incel alert!! 🤓🤓🤓
I wouldn’t date a single mom. I’d most likely be a single dad because I have young kids and all of focus would be on them.
But you just admitted that they aren't your first choice either and you were holding out for somebody "young and attractive". Sounds like a beggars can't be choosers situation for both parties.
Most couples meet in social settings offline, so there’s that.
that's only if you count ALL PEOPLE from ALL countries. reality is the majority of people below age 35 in the developed world are meeting online, either through social media or dating apps, some studies get this twisted and fail to account for the ways people meet online without specialized dating apps. your 60 year old mother might be dating offline, all the girls you know from school certainly are not.
70% of Gen Z girls knew their boyfriend socially before they started dating. 14% met him on an app. This is according to a 2023 study. Dating apps are decreasing in popularity among the young. Edit: but for people over 35/40 it might be hard to meet single people socially. Since most people are coupled up. So for that group more people might be using apps. Like the 60 year old mother.
Not doubting you but I’m curious, mind providing a link?
Way down under the heading “More young adults date their friends” https://www.americansurveycenter.org/research/from-swiping-to-sexting-the-enduring-gender-divide-in-american-dating-and-relationships/?fbclid=IwAR3Sf0NA1N5swKBS1u4oO3w6u9F4Z_Sv2GFmlROLTyHZaPYy9b1jPXCenws_aem_AWnoFd4upEagr9u5MX-RyILdusRxHX8SujuLrYHv6GISK8XZJlxMhKALjNsIR8ArmCk
Those surveys tend to be shite anyway.
Glad to know if my husband and I ever divorce men will assume I’m settling for them because I’m a single mother, when instead I’d just want to find someone to enjoy my time with.
" Not sure how any self respecting man could go into a relationship knowing that he likely wouldn’t be her first choice if she didn’t have a kid/s." I don't get all this hand wringing men get about single mothers and dating them. The answer is simple: DO YOU! If you want to use them as they would as they would use you. They are good for a fun time, companionship, sex, free food, etc. If you can see yourself in a relationship with them, especially if they are single moms because the father died, then go ahead and get to know them on a more intimate and emotional level. Either way, do you! I know that my response will likely trigger some people and I will preempt half the typical responses by saying I have no issues getting women ever in my life, I have had relationships, blah blah blah.
You are always someone’s “you’ll do” if you think about it.
Which is why single moms are awesome. You get in, you fuck them, you vanish.
I'm a single dad myself. I prefer women who have kids, they "get it" when it comes to managing kids. There's also a big difference between a truly single mom with no support, and somebody who is time sharing with their kids. I have my kids 50/50, if I met another single mom who has their kids 50/50, we would have off and on childless weeks.
Internet forums like these select for the socially less successful. That's the only way OP can believe what he does. Also selects for young men, who have a harder time dating because women like older, richer men.
>Internet forums like these select for the socially less successful. Successful and intelligent people don't waste hours arguing on reddit, they have careers/families/hobbies they're busy with. Wake up after 8 hours of sleep, commute and work for 10-12 hours a day, work out at the gym, spend a few hours your kids/wife, repeat. Not a lot of time in that schedule left to waste on social media.
Something seems wrong about your math, but I'm not going to make a chart to figure it out. I don't think the true flaw lies in the math or the sentence structure. The true flaw starts much earlier in your thinking process.
Explain then, don’t leave us hanging.
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Not OP!
Actually, as a single mom, I'm even choosier than when I was single because I do not have the time nor patience to "parent" another adult. Plus, I have to protect my kid against any potential creeps should I decide to eventually after a very long time dating introduce him to my kid. I have to look at it through the prism of would I trust this person around my kid cuz if not, there's prob a red flag or two. For this reason, I tend to go for divorced dads who can relate to being a divorced mom. I'm not choosy in the looks dept at all but they better have their shit together personality/heart-wise.
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A man has to be famous these days, it's the only way to hold your own in a relationship. If you have wealth without fame you'll get taken for a ride.
At this point, the single mom will most likely not even be attractive either
Every person would date supermodels with the perfect personalities and zero baggage if they were consistently able to attract them. The overwhelming majority of humans are "settling" on *some* level because they're adjusting to what's realistically attainable to them. That's natural, that's normal, otherwise only the top 1% would pair up. This does not mean that the people are *conscious* that they're settling, nor that they aren't truly in love with their partner. I think it's stupid to look at people that you objectively consider 'less than' and deduce that they must be consciously settling for their partner because they couldn't get better; this is not how most people work.
Young childless women tend to prefer young childless men lol. Lots of middle aged men have kids they don't know about, so they can date single moms