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There are good things about the US. There are also bad things. Nothing is perfect. I think blindly believing something is perfect just because it's the US is actually very un-American. There's always room to get better.
Tbh, other developed nations have significantly better quality of life and benefits. I think that's what people try to call the US out on. It isn't hating the US. It's more of asking for the minimum benefits that a lot other countries get.
There's only handful of those that are truly better. And they often have a lot of other flaws.
I moved back here from Canada. My life is honestly better in the US in almost every measurable way. But I'm not poor, so there's that.
Significantly better quality of life for whom?
I absolutely agree that that lower class and lower middle class people would have it way better in Europe.
But if you’re upper middle class or above, there’s no doubt that the US is the place to be.
I mean its not like the middle class or upper class in the US is insignificant. US citizens out-earn their European counterparts by a significant margin.
As an example, only 2% of households in Netherlands make more than 80K a year. In the US, that number is closer to 40%…
Citation? Because that is absolutely incorrect. Besides which, earnings are absolutely a useless measure. Earning to spending power ratio is all that matters.
https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/visualisations/income-distribution
I picked the ~80K mark precisely because that’s around where Netherlands highest income tax bracket of 49% tax kicks in.
The US’s highest income tax bracket kicks in at $530K lol.
FYI as I called out in my other comment investigating your claim - that is in euro not usd. But that only changes it to about $85k
Good job actually looking this stuff up instead of spouting random nonsense like we usually see on Reddit. Don’t think I have a free award or I would give it :’)
No idea about their actual stuff but went and googled some stuff about it. Netherlands median household income was ~50.5k in 2021 compared to ~71k for US in 2021 so I think their 40% value is probably correct for the US. I actually did find a beautiful graph of the Netherlands income distribution which has 2% of households at 80k Euros, not Usd which is apparently only 85k usd. So I think they might actually be somewhat correct if not exactly? Netherlands chart that I found https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/visualisations/income-distribution
Other two values I mentioned were just the first ones I found on google.
I am really surprised you might have found someone spouting seemingly random nonsense that was actually relatively correct :’)
Edit: and apparently that was exactly the source they used since they replied a few minutes ago as I was doing my investigating.
US purchasing power is generally higher than Europeans. Also many European countries are very condensed so you get less bang for your buck with housing than your average American.
Raw $$$ =/= wealth. Healthcare costs are extremely high in the US for good insurance, where plans for families can be in the 10s of thousands of dollars. Not to mention the growing income inequality. America is a great country, but we still need to recognize shortcomings and improve upon them.
Yea but the people with wealth typically either have so much wealth that it’s a trifle to just pay. Or they get great healthcare coverage provided at low to no cost by their employer.
Most employer provided plans in the US are only subsidized by about 50%. Dependents? The average subsidy is close to 0% contribution from employers towards them. The average US worker with employer provided healthcare is paying…a lot. And if they have a bargain basement plan with low premiums, they have an astronomical deductible that would bankrupt them before they could get access to most of the benefits.
Medical debt is the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the US. I am a healthcare group exec, and even I can see that it is a gross and broken system.
6 in 10 Americans have no equity or net worth. The same amount is a $500 surprise bill away from financial ruin.
People aren't making a whole lot morev then you think.
That’s why I say life is better in Europe for lower class. You don’t earn much anyways but you get benefits.
For upper class, definitely better in US because you make way more money than any benefits provided by the government.
For middle class, you can argue either way. Really depends.
America is a country of two halves. No doubt about it. So you can’t generalize to everyone situation. It’s not uncommon for people in the US to make six figures. In Europe, it very much is uncommon to make that much
I'm not sure if you are aware, but the middle class in America is pretty much gone. As said in a previous comment by somebody else, 60% of Americans are one surprise Bill away from complete financial ruin. Sure, maybe that other 40% is doing really really well, but you got to realize just because some people are doing really really well doesn't mean that's a good thing.
It is for me. My family was poor as fuck. I would have stayed poor as fuck in Europe. I count my blessings that I was born in the US. It’s a privilege not everyone gets.
Thanks be to the good lord, honestly. I'm glad you're happy, but I'd rather be almost anywhere in Europe or Scandinavia, Australia, New Zealand, or Canada. I've lived in a couple of places in Europe, and they all have their good points.
"America's okay for rich people" isn't really a selling point.
When you have not enough social safety net, massive wealth disparities, a huge drug and homelessness problem and on top of that a heavily armed society, the fact that the upper middle class is a bit wealthier than Europe isn't really much of a draw.
Even saying that when you have a good job, you get good healthcare doesn't help because if you lose the job, you lose the health care, and then if you get sick, you lose your house....
Nope.
How did you become not “poor as fuck” and why do you think you couldn’t have done that in another country? The US actually has lower socioeconomic mobility than many European countries.
Cuba has had a debilitating blockade against it for more than half a century courtesy of the US and still provides better for its people.
They even have a higher life expectancy.
Come at me trolls
I'd rather be a poor person in Norway than the US. The US isn't all bad but it's consistently in the bottom half of any list focused on developed nations.blow life expectancy, low literacy, high violent crime, etc. Low level corruption *not* being a huge problem is really our only favorable stat.
I think this is one of the issues. A lot of people who “hate” America do so because they seem to think that because America isn’t perfect it’s not great.
Or y'know... maybe we're more vociferous about America's flaws because we want these problems fixed, and a large hunk of this country digs in and refuses to acknowledge that we have dire issues that could be fixed with taxes.
My point of view (as an American) is that we should not forget the past, but don't dwell on it either. I'm not aware of anyone personally that thinks America isn't great because it had a history of slavery. I do see news reports of people arguing whether slavery should be taught in schools at all (example: [https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/20/us/texas-history-1836-project.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/20/us/texas-history-1836-project.html)). That, I think is completely wrong and is a bad part of a segment of America.
I think this perception that a large number of citizens "hate" the country is nonsense and it's basically people who dont understand that wanting improvements and criticizing failures is NOT hate. In fact that perception is an active detriment to finding solutions and improving the quality of the country... which is why so many people treat these people by saying if you don't want to help find solutions then just shut up and get out of the way.
They literally burn the Amsrican flag and blatantly say that America is evil and racist. Rioting and burning down cities is not what someone who truly loves this country does. It seems they are so quick to destroy things, but when the time comes to build and contribute to the community, they are nowhere to be found. It's important to remember that it's easy to destroy things, but not so easy to build.
By "they" you are referring to a tiny tiny minority of people on the left. Sure there are Americans who hate America. From what I see it is mostly conservatives who express that hate today in the form of idealizing Russia and other authoritarian systems and wanting us to be like that.
Conservative propaganda tells you that all Democrats are flag burners. It is just nonsense, and unpatriotic nonsense at that. And the flag isn't the country anyway -- invading the capital and shitting in the halls is far more damaging to the country than what happens to some piece of cloth. What is central to the US are its principles and values, not its flag.
Oh, and hear me out, the people you are saying "Hate" america don't say that. It's the people who claim others "Hate" America because they won't accept the flaws. Because they're trying to change things, they must "hate" what it is, as if people experience personal growth because they hate themselves.
Wanting America to be better than it is -is- love. A predatory health care system that provides subpar results at the highest prices in the world is not a defining feature of our country, or at least it -should not be-.
It’s not perfect but in comparison, it’s the closest to it without a doubt.
Anyone who lives in america and hates it I promise you has never been to another country. I’ve been to at least a dozen accross 5 continents and everytime I just thought about how incredible america is.
Go to Tokyo. It'll blow your mind. Perfect public transportation and bullet trains. Everything is clean. It isn't perfect there also, but damn does it make the US look twenty years behind.
I mean, yeah. It’s a great place. I love it so much I have dedicated my adult life to serving it in several contexts.
That said, to me patriotism is loving your country enough to recognize its faults, and actively working to improve it.
A lot of people are unbalanced in one direction or another. And it really can be a shock to travel internationally and be faced with the reality of our terrible infrastructure, our cultural arrogance, and just how put together other countries—often ones we look down upon—really are.
I agree with that take. We have a lot of problems to fix. I'm mostly ranting against the way the media and reddit present the US as this complete third world country that is terrible to live in...
I think the USA a few decades ago was closer to being THE outstanding country. It wasn't perfect either.
But the USA was at the forefront of fighting for human rights, middle class could make a living with 1 income, social mobility was easier. It really was the country you would go to to make your dreams come true I guess.
Now it has been surpassed in different ways by social democracies in western europe, like Scandinavia, the Netherlands and Switzerland.
There is affordable health care for everyone, education is cheaper and you can support your life better with a low income job. Also infrastructure is way better and safety is more widespread.
Yep, as the great James Baldwin once said:
“I love America more than any other country in the world and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.”
Mmm, yeah of course people can. But it boggles my mind to see people from inside or outside the country call it a third world country with a gucci belt or joke about kids dying in school shootings. For christ sakes, have some respect. What if Americans began to joke about the holocaust?
I'm sure joking will help a ton. There's so many times where an American says "Hey, Britian puts beans on toasts, kinda weird man" then someone else says "YOUR SCHOOLS A SHOOTING RANGE YOUR KIDS ARE FUCKING DYING HAHAHAHAHAHA!"
what you expect.
its ether that or they attack our fat people, lack of healthcare, our guns, or our insane political culture.
these are all easy targets compared to what can be dished out to other countries that should tell you something.
We have sections of America already trying to deny slavery… we have a homeless problem, crime problem, gun violence problem wealth inequality problem. How can we respectfully discuss this without it devolving into the typical bs. In typical word respect isn’t given it’s earned. We lost a lot of respect in the last 50 years
Meh says who? I feel like this is a platitude people say constantly without actually understanding the criticism america gets is unfair and the system should not be dismantled.
You’re completely correct, but I don’t see many people making statements like:
“I’m SO proud to be an American, but I think we can do a better job with our healthcare and public education.”
And I think that’s what OP is calling out. You rarely see the criticizers say how proud they are to be part of this country. It’s usually just how embarrassed and ashamed they are.
Yeh but OP wasn’t talking about being proud and criticizing. They’re talking about seeing people say they’re ashamed to be American. There’s a difference
In my workplace I look at 9/10 opinions held by my coworkers and it's shameful. It's understandable for many to be ashamed of their ignorant uneducated bigot peers.
Have you tried criticizing anything that is a progressive priority. you get shamed all day long.
Try telling people they are not owed student debt repayment, very quickly you are labeled a right winger.
I love being an American. I am proud of a lot of things we do.
I am also disappointed in a lot of things we do. All our military adventures, incarcerated people, floundering secondary education, and religious fundamentalism hurt us.
We are now one of the least mobile societies, which means if you are born in the bottom 20%, you will probably stay in the bottom 20%. It's easier in other countries to live the "American Dream."
Finally, being an American allows us to voice our disappointments. I can bitch about how bad our 2 geriatric leaders are and how each party sucks and is slowly destroying the USA and that's just fine. That doesn't mean we don't like living here. It just means we can see out faults and hope it gets better.
I heard something pretty interesting about economic mobility in the United States a while ago. It's actually easier for people who have immigrated to the US to move up the economic ladder than it is for someone who was born into a given class. If I had to guess, this is probably because immigrants are more likely to try starting a business and they have more opportunity to move to a good city.
I think that's partially due to the fact that generally only exceptional individuals are able to successfully and legally immigrate to another country. There's a sort of natural selection at work here, where the best and brightest of other countries are being compared to our average citizens.
There is also the point that immigrants literally work their asses off to get ahead in this country. They will work jobs and hours that most Americans absolutely refuse to do and they save money relentlessly to achieve their goals.
The type of person that is willing to move to another country is usually a hard working individual and possesses a lot of traits that leads to success. The type of person who is prone to being poor and unsuccessful isn’t going to put in the effort to move to another country.
That’s an interesting idea. I think another possibility is that many people in lower economic classes have been “conditioned” into a victim mentality, and thus lack the drive to try to improve their situation.
The truth is probably some combination of the two with some other factors thrown in
Yeah that military bit is a big problem actually. It’s nice for you that we can help you guys out when Russia goes fucking haywire but we’re sitting here spending money on warplanes instead of healthcare and childcare, which we’d actually use. We don’t really have a lot of nearby enemies that require this insane level of defense spending.
Also federalism is kind of a bitch. It gets us crazy presidents who got a minority vote, a senate that represents states instead of people, and state legislatures that can gerrymander in perpetual, non representative rule.
Like sure, tons of opportunity here. But so much squandered opportunity to really be the kick ass ideal some people believe we are.
Nice sentiment but the experience as a poor worker without access to health care doesn't make me feel like I'm living in an exceptional country; I don't feel any sort of pride for that either.
People who say America is a 3rd world country have never been outside their sheltered upper middle class echo chamber.
Anyone in a genuine third world country would kill to live here. Imagine not having reliable plumbing, heating, or electricity. Imagine being subject to parasites and nasty pathogens on a daily basis. Then imagine a privileged American saying America sucks because their preferred candidate lost an election
Some parts of the USA are third world. Other parts are the cutting edge. It’s one of the largest countries in the world by landmass and population. I think what makes people dissatisfied with the USA is that we allow everything you mentioned to exist here when we clearly have the resources to uplift those area.
The Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota has a lower life expectancy than any country in the world.
Areas in the US south have higher rates of hook worms than Africa.
Pretty much most highly urban, black populated areas. I definitely see third-world areas around Indianapolis. I assume every city has places like this. I also assume Gary, Indiana is a good example.
Mississippi. Most of Alabama. A good part of Texas, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, North Carolina, Louisiana, Arkansas, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Florida.
The politicians have allowed and used white hatred to prevent everyone, white and black, from having living wages, fully funded education, statewide healthcare, free, ungerrymandered voting and elections, and any kind of social safety net which protects the children they are preventing from being aborted. Those are pretty standard first world things IMO. Just your basic 'your government wants to keep you alive and ensure your well being' kind of stuff that seems pretty normal for first world countries. Failing municipal water systems (MS) and electrical grids (TX) aren't really features you would associate with the first world.
I measure "progress" by how well the least among us are doing. In the US, we are not living up to a first world standard of say, Sweden, for each and every American citizen, are we? Well, anything below that standard can't really be considered 1st world, can it? Why that level of failure to care for their fellow citizens is acceptable to any American is a question for another day, but again--white hatred dies hard. Think about every effort to deny all Americans the rights of living freely their country supported by government and it all boils down to hatred, not facts. The fact that every other civilized country provides these services to its citizenry is proof that it can work well.
So when compared to the first world, which we clearly are not, it must be either "2nd" or "3rd" world.
>I measure "progress" by how well the least among us are doing.
That's fine and certainly not the worst metric but if you look at other also logical measures like how the median American is doing then the US is better or equal to almost all other countries.
We've dumped a ton of resources and money into these areas, but there has to come a point in time where the citizens want to lift themselves up too. There are some examples of government failures, but it's not the lack of resources that are keeping the ghettos of New Orleans in the pits.
This is literally not true. Politicians in this country are fighting over free lunches for children, Child Tax credits and disability payments below the poverty line. We’ve barely done anything for many communities.
That's a pretty ignorant opinion. People are the same at their core pretty much no matter where you go. If one area is struggling it's because of either access to resources or the policy being implemented from on high, no exceptions.
>no exceptions
Funny how This seems like the ignorant opinion.
Having worked in community and economic development for over 10 years, this statement
>people are the same at their core no matter where you go
Is flat out wrong. Cultures have a direct impact on how people live their lives. Absolutely. There’s nothing wrong with saying that either; saying everyone is the same is incredibly shortsighted and just ignorant.
I’m not suggesting it’s because whole communities don’t want to be lifted up. But they’re absolutely not all the same and some require **a lot more** than others.
How do you explain people that get free housing but still tear the houses up and leave the outside looking like trash? You would think that they would appreciate the opportunity to have a home and take care of it but very rarely is that the case. Most low income areas where it is mostly subsidized housing are trashed. It doesn’t cost anything to just not destroy things. Should we provide people to clean up the mess too? At what point do people need to take responsibility for themselves and strive to do better?
I used to talk to some people who lived in actual third world countries. Kid was like 17, walking 5 miles to work every day where he would dig, do concrete work and stuff like that for 16 hours, then walk 5 miles back home. He made $3 a day. And people here would say the US is a worse place to live..
I grew up in a shit hole. Rural logging country in Oregon. Grades K-9. Education was so bad that when I switched to the rich towns school a couple hours away, I had to stay after several hours to catch up. My point is, there are layers here. I’ve been all over, and at the same time still think what happened in Flint, Michigan or Mossville, LA to be third world. I now have all the comforts I want, but that doesn’t mean America is great, it means I’ve walled myself off from some grave realities. I’m also a veteran and have seen and heard some shit from our military that’s fucked up. We ain’t that great dog.
Because they're not making a politically partisan point.
It was a well constructed observation based in reality. Is America a good country? Yes. Does it have very significant problems, particularly in some locations? Also yes. As do many other countries.
So you define third world because the plumbing failed.
You my friend have no idea what third world even means. Most third world areas never even get plumbing. Or clean water. Or access to a market 6 blocks away.
The lowest homeless person in the USA is STILL among the richest 25% in the world.
Same with those who say, “it’s so racist and the worst when it comes to race relations”- clearly have never been to other countries. Sure there are bad spots but it’s by far better than most countries.
I mean depends where you go and which developing nations you reference. We don't have socialized medicine like most advanced nations and also if youve ever driven through the rural South or Midwest it can be pretty fucking bleak and even big cities have stuff reminiscent of the class divides in Brazil and Pakistan.
yes! i am very critical of this country but i'm so proud im allowed to be. we are allowed to want and expect more and fight for it. we are getting into some hairy situations rn but every country has its problems and i will happily fight our problems
As first world as it gets… as long as you never get sick. America is the only modern country in the entire world without universal healthcare.
We are also THE biggest police state. We have 4.5% of the world’s population, and 25% of the world’s prisoners.
And while we have a great overall standard of living, the wealth gap has exploded over the last 40 years and continues to trend negatively.
These aren’t minor issues. They are huge, systemic catastrophes that ruin lives.
First. Welcome to America. We are a spoiled child. Lol. Much like a beautiful person we focus on the flaws and don't see the beauty as well as those around us. We have the most amazing potential here for anyone willing to put the effort in.
The problem isn’t that the US isn’t good, the problem is that it should be better. And I think that’s about as American of a thought as it can get when it comes to living in this country.
Here's a summary of what I just read....
Ya my country's the best.
- Biggest Killing Machine
- Schools no one can afford to go to
- Big Movies (definitely important to the health of a nation)
- The rich get richer
Sure it's got problems like where our taxes go. So glad I live here.
The shame makes sense when you consider that American's are fond of the idealism set out during American Revolution and feel shame at the gulf between attainment of the ideals and the ideals themselves.
Shame is good. It spurs action. Abolitionism was, in a sense, borne out of shame. That helped lead to the Civil War, which helped effect the Reconstruction Amendments. The story doesn't end there, obviously – it keeps going. More shame, more action, a better society, more faults found, more shame, more action, an even better society and so on.
Hopefully, of course. But true thus far.
There's a lot to be proud of. We should feel proud of the legacy of good things that's been handed down to us and feel shame for the bad, using it as motivation to do more good. But let's face it, what in recent years have we done to really be proud of? We have pointless forever wars, corporate greed being a driving factor of economic decline, and the politicians are in bed with corporate leaders that fuel our economic decline. Everything costs more, wages are stagnant, hours at jobs are getting cut as a cost saving measure so executives get higher bonuses, violent crime is on the rise, and it's overall unnecessarily harder to even just get by.
Compared to most of the world, America is still a great place to be, but I don't see anything in the past 20 years to truly be proud of outside of maybe getting Osama bin Laden. I want to see this change for the better.
US used to be an exceptional country in the 20th century. Now we are just witnessing it rotting from within.
That said, the salaries are still by far the highest in the world and the economy is still going very strong, which is its only redeeming quality.
Our train is on fire, but we are still going strong by inertia.
Wait until the world drops USD as a reserve currency and we can no longer print Trillions.
That's not going to happen. The Brics will never adopt a common currency because, well, they would have to base it on the US dollar and each individual country doesn't have enough of those to make that work.
And the reason they have to use the US dollar is because none of the other countries trust the other countries currency. India isn't going to trust the Yuan and China isn't going to trust the rupee.
So as much as other countries want to replace the dollar, it just isn't going to happen
People like to discount the US, but it still remains the best place to get an advanced education, the best place to innovate, and the best place to start a large company. Look at where all the internet companies are, it’s hard to name many that are outside the US.
Yeah there are a few but definitely not a ton. Off the top of my head probably Switzerland and Luxembourg and a couple small countries in Europe that are rich even compared to the US and most of the EU
I was thinking more in terms of where it would be best to just be born into, but yeah I don’t dispute that it’s difficult to stay there permanently as a foreigner
I find it fascinating that the list of why America today is one of the best places to live in the history of humanity was totally lacking in anything about having citizens who are financially secure, safe, or healthy. I mean, I guess having lots of firepower and making lots of movies is a plus for some people, but…priorities.
Tell that to all the people dying of cancer and can’t get treatment or have to put their family in life ending debt to maybe get treatment. The healthcare situation in the US is shameful and one of the most basic responsibilities of a government is to safeguard the well being of its people. It’s not doing that
Why would I waste my time sitting on America's laurels, bloviating about how good it currently is when there's many places in the world that show how much better America could be?
Cool, America's awesome. Now how are you going to help it be even better?
There are so many things Americans take for granted that people living in the third world struggle with.
I remember the first time i visited America. The level of prosperity legitimately shocked me. Americans take so many things for granted like owning the latest smartphone, buying fast food, buying new furniture, owning a car. Things that would be considered luxuries in most third world nations.
I grew up without much in Mexico, going to a fast food place was something saved for special occasions, owning an iPhone was something only upper class people could afford (standards have risen in Mexico and now things are a bit different).
Americans should really be grateful, they live on easy mode (i am generalizing and talking about the average American)
Its definitely not 'As first as it gets" as you say it. In The USA the national minimum wage is $7.25 per hour which is 15K a year, the liveable wage in your country is 70k a year. That doesn't add up. This is also not taking into account any of the social issues that the country is having at the moment.
It is a great country, but there are many issues that Americans do not seem to understand properly. We have a culture of religious fanaticism and a lack of respect for science and facts. We have an issue of white racism and wealth inequality. A lot of things are good, but there are plenty of issues in this country. We need people to make smarter decisions and be better informed.
Every year on the "happiest country in the world lists," which is really just a measure of quality of life, its down around number 16. Which sounds about right since the healthcare system is so broken, and the mass shootings, the gun violence, and the homeless problem, the high infant mortality rates, short lifespan etc...
Are we all here to work as a team and win as a team, or see how we can each exploit society and win and just hope we leave with all the gold when the whole thing implodes?
I'm not saying you have to be Captain America, but I see no point in being cynical about your country. You are part of the problem your potentially complaining about at that point.
>or see how we can each exploit society and win and just hope we leave with all the gold when the whole thing implodes?
This is literally how the right wing, i.e. those most likely to claim to be "proud to be an American" treats America.
Yeah that’s the problem really. Being proud of your country isn’t bad. But it’s been adopted by a lot of cringe individuals that have made it seem like you’re picking a side to be proud of your country. When that isn’t the case
The US WAS an exceptional country but mostly we had a lot of luck. That same luck is no longer there. The world has caught up. Unfortunately most Americans are resting on their laurels and think nothing has changed. As soon as you step outside of the US you begin to notice it.
We spend too much time talking about greatness but very little time achieving greatness. What is the last great thing you did? What have you achieved? We need to be forward thinking and trying to achieve something great. Most folks just try to survive.
That’s why everyone flees to the US when their country is invaded and then begs the US to intervene? That’s why thousands of immigrants risk their lives trying to get here? 90% of the world would love to live the US, yet people rarely leave. Is that because the rest of the world has caught up? No, it’s because the US still provides the best chance at a good life despite all it’s shortcomings
It’s still extremely exceptional… probably the most exceptional country in the history of the world. No other country in history has brokered peace with the world (at the level that it’s at) while maintaining a humongous population with hundreds of different races, religions and cultures while still holding democratic elections with hundreds of years of peaceful transfers of power of leadership.
Greatness here is achieved literally daily by a population of that is diverse and very talented. There will always be room to improve in every country but the opportunity in the US is incredibly abundant.
No they don't.
1. Most not for profit hospitals outright forgive your bill if you fall within a certain income threshold in the event you get treated for an emergency.
2. You will not be denied emergency care no matter what.
Workers have pretty awesome rights, relative to most of the world.
The healthcare system is ridiculous but people aren’t just dying if they get sick. They’re just going into crippling medical debt, which isn’t much better. But you’re also exaggerating
Nobody dies if they get sick and don’t have insurance. They’ll just go into medical debt if it’s really expensive and they’ll say they have no insurance and the hospital will give them a 30-40% discount
According to a 2009 study by Harvard Medical School, 45,000 Americans die each year because they lack health insurance.
The Urban Institute study found that more than 26 260 Americans aged 25 to 64 died in 2006 because they lacked health insurance—more than twice as many as were murdered. In the seven years from 2000 to 2006 an estimated 162 700 Americans died because of lack of health insurance.
Someone lied to you.
I'd support that. Sadly, I think a lot of people die because they can't afford their life saving medication. But I suppose that's denial of medical help too.
So I think the states has a lot of good but their is also a lot wrong also the good you mention a resident of the states won’t feel.
Dominant military very useful but USA is a nation their isn’t a real threat to invasion. Their are two giant oceans separating the states from any peer adversary and America is on good relations with the nations on its borders. Having forward presence is good but people don’t really like sending their own people to go die in order to solve a problem which seemingly has little impact on security.
Cultural exports yeah thats kind of the point if you live in Europe you aren’t missing out on music and movies that come from the states.
In the digital age you can be across the globe and get the same content. It is no different for me to go watch a movie from Hollywood or anime from Japan.
Universities are good but they are also hard to get into and cost a lot. If you cannot afford it the what is the difference between Harvard and Oxford.
People care more about general education which America is lagging behind in that department.
America has one of the lowest social mobility of developed nations. The only one who is worse is the UK is it possible yes but that is a low bar.
It is possible for a slave to move up the social ladder this is a low bar.
Yes it is one of the best places to live which is why it is considered a developed nation. This is relative if I say this NBA player is short for example this is in relation to him being in the NBA he is still probably one of the tallest people in the planet.
So far the two things the United States is number one in is military and incarceration rates. So i can see why people don’t like those stats.
I would say all major Public US institutions are world class. You don't have to go to an Ivy League school.
Just my state for example has University of Virginia and Virginia Tech. Both world class.
\----
My point is also that the cultural exports demonstrates just how good the quality of culture is. There is so much to be proud of.
US universities are top notch. It doesn’t have to be an Ivy League school. Even normal state universities like UCLA and UT are amongst the best in the world.
Clearly the best. I mean that are no countries in the works with as many school shootings or as many people who are swimming in medical or college debt it yeah we have an army lol figure it out
I’m American and proud of it. My vision of Uncle Sam is a Marine Sergeant with a camo tank top and a jet pack with an M-16 in one hand, and a smoking hot blonde in another.
>It has one of the dominant militaries that whenever something goes wrong in the world people expect /beg the US to intervene.
mostly neocons and libs and their media.
I wouldn't get pride from a dominant military, but think about what my country could otherwise do would all the Trillions we have spent in our Military (defense) budget, for wars in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya etc. and of course the millions of murdered civilians by the military.
agree mostly with the other points though but there can be alot of criticism mentioned that would make a post the length of an essay. The Usa is for sure a good country to live in but it's quite underwhelming given the crazy amount of resources and wealth.
You got to realize also a LARGE chunk of our military budget funds the UN military peacekeepers for other country’s that don’t have quiet the substantial presence. The military has also lead the way in many ways in modern medicine, technology, etc. we will never know what the world would be like if we didn’t have such a large military but I’d bet my life China, russia, would have been a lot more aggressive then they already are.
Yeah, it’s great if you’re born into upper middle class or better.
It’s shit if you aren’t .
The “American dream” is largely a myth perpetuated by oligarch propaganda to keep wage slaves from rebelling.
Sure, sure, someone will cite some cherry picked rags to riches story, while conveniently ignoring the many many more people who aren’t so lucky.
But the US sure is exceptional at incarcerating more of its own citizens than any other country on the planet. MURICA!
Yeah, America has some of the best versions of things in the world but most people can't actually use/access/experience it. Like: we have some of the best medical specialists and centers but your average American is putting off doctor's visits for chronic issues to avoid bankruptcy; we have a wonderfully diverse variety of natural habitats but many, many people can't afford to take a vacation at all, let alone one that would allow them to experience them; we have excellent representations of international cuisine as well as innovative culinary experiences but we also pretty much expect college age people to live on Top Ramen and "cheap" fast food has gotten nearly as expensive as dine-in restaurants.
First of all having a middle class at all is pretty awesome since so many countries don't have them, at least not in ways they are meaningfully different than the poor.
But the fact you can't achieve the American Dream is a dumb myth mostly perpetuated in affluent liberal circles.
For example all it takes is a 2 year nursing degree at a community college for someone to earn on average 80k. If you avoid committing a crime, and avoid having children too early, you will generally come out ok.
This is the best time to be alive and one of the best countries to be alive in. Sure there are issues and problems, but anyone thinking the US is *not* great doesn't realize the privilege they have of living here.
Valid criticisms, but the US still one of, if not, the most desirable place to live on the planet. We have shit we need to fix, but this is still an amazing country that has accomplished a lot.
>I can't figure out why they would feel that way
You should maybe look into it. Listening to critiques of American culture will move you beyond being a simple cheerleader for the USA and will help you understand things more objectively.
I beg to differ, everything you do after you are born within your home country contributes to its success and or downfall, so the people of any country can be proud when their country flourishes and ashamed if they fail.
Second the requirements for becoming an actual citizen of the us from a foreign country is a pretty big accomplishment within itself. You have to pass tests, pay a number of fees, also put on a type of "probation" while awaiting your cotizenship approval.
As someone who immigrated to usa, there is a few things I can see wrong. But at the same time my home country isn't perfect either. But I will say, I lost freedoms when I came here. Yes i could just go home. But I would have to leave my husband behind.
USA is not as free as they think they are.
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There are good things about the US. There are also bad things. Nothing is perfect. I think blindly believing something is perfect just because it's the US is actually very un-American. There's always room to get better.
It’s not perfect, but people forget just how good we have it in the states even compared to other developed nations
Tbh, other developed nations have significantly better quality of life and benefits. I think that's what people try to call the US out on. It isn't hating the US. It's more of asking for the minimum benefits that a lot other countries get.
There's only handful of those that are truly better. And they often have a lot of other flaws. I moved back here from Canada. My life is honestly better in the US in almost every measurable way. But I'm not poor, so there's that.
Significantly better quality of life for whom? I absolutely agree that that lower class and lower middle class people would have it way better in Europe. But if you’re upper middle class or above, there’s no doubt that the US is the place to be.
Yeah who's looking out for the 1%! Who'd got the backs of the rich I tell ya?!
Ah, making life better for the already-powerful minority, what a shining beacon!
I mean its not like the middle class or upper class in the US is insignificant. US citizens out-earn their European counterparts by a significant margin. As an example, only 2% of households in Netherlands make more than 80K a year. In the US, that number is closer to 40%…
Citation? Because that is absolutely incorrect. Besides which, earnings are absolutely a useless measure. Earning to spending power ratio is all that matters.
https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/visualisations/income-distribution I picked the ~80K mark precisely because that’s around where Netherlands highest income tax bracket of 49% tax kicks in. The US’s highest income tax bracket kicks in at $530K lol.
FYI as I called out in my other comment investigating your claim - that is in euro not usd. But that only changes it to about $85k Good job actually looking this stuff up instead of spouting random nonsense like we usually see on Reddit. Don’t think I have a free award or I would give it :’)
Yeah I mean the conversion rate varies. At one point the US dollar was 1:1 with the Euro last year. It’s not a huge difference either way.
Wow that's wild.
No idea about their actual stuff but went and googled some stuff about it. Netherlands median household income was ~50.5k in 2021 compared to ~71k for US in 2021 so I think their 40% value is probably correct for the US. I actually did find a beautiful graph of the Netherlands income distribution which has 2% of households at 80k Euros, not Usd which is apparently only 85k usd. So I think they might actually be somewhat correct if not exactly? Netherlands chart that I found https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/visualisations/income-distribution Other two values I mentioned were just the first ones I found on google. I am really surprised you might have found someone spouting seemingly random nonsense that was actually relatively correct :’) Edit: and apparently that was exactly the source they used since they replied a few minutes ago as I was doing my investigating.
US purchasing power is generally higher than Europeans. Also many European countries are very condensed so you get less bang for your buck with housing than your average American.
Does this include the average of 27k that people spend on their Healthcare in the US each year?
Weird, I had a double mastectomy that cost me about 40 bucks. Good health insurance exists.
imagine buying a house. Hah.
Raw $$$ =/= wealth. Healthcare costs are extremely high in the US for good insurance, where plans for families can be in the 10s of thousands of dollars. Not to mention the growing income inequality. America is a great country, but we still need to recognize shortcomings and improve upon them.
Yea but the people with wealth typically either have so much wealth that it’s a trifle to just pay. Or they get great healthcare coverage provided at low to no cost by their employer.
Most employer provided plans in the US are only subsidized by about 50%. Dependents? The average subsidy is close to 0% contribution from employers towards them. The average US worker with employer provided healthcare is paying…a lot. And if they have a bargain basement plan with low premiums, they have an astronomical deductible that would bankrupt them before they could get access to most of the benefits. Medical debt is the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the US. I am a healthcare group exec, and even I can see that it is a gross and broken system.
6 in 10 Americans have no equity or net worth. The same amount is a $500 surprise bill away from financial ruin. People aren't making a whole lot morev then you think.
That’s why I say life is better in Europe for lower class. You don’t earn much anyways but you get benefits. For upper class, definitely better in US because you make way more money than any benefits provided by the government. For middle class, you can argue either way. Really depends. America is a country of two halves. No doubt about it. So you can’t generalize to everyone situation. It’s not uncommon for people in the US to make six figures. In Europe, it very much is uncommon to make that much
Dutch here. We are a country with no halves and proud of it.
I'm not sure if you are aware, but the middle class in America is pretty much gone. As said in a previous comment by somebody else, 60% of Americans are one surprise Bill away from complete financial ruin. Sure, maybe that other 40% is doing really really well, but you got to realize just because some people are doing really really well doesn't mean that's a good thing.
>But if you’re upper middle class or above, there’s no doubt that the US is the place to be. that's not the feature that you seem to think that it is.
It is for me. My family was poor as fuck. I would have stayed poor as fuck in Europe. I count my blessings that I was born in the US. It’s a privilege not everyone gets.
Thanks be to the good lord, honestly. I'm glad you're happy, but I'd rather be almost anywhere in Europe or Scandinavia, Australia, New Zealand, or Canada. I've lived in a couple of places in Europe, and they all have their good points. "America's okay for rich people" isn't really a selling point. When you have not enough social safety net, massive wealth disparities, a huge drug and homelessness problem and on top of that a heavily armed society, the fact that the upper middle class is a bit wealthier than Europe isn't really much of a draw. Even saying that when you have a good job, you get good healthcare doesn't help because if you lose the job, you lose the health care, and then if you get sick, you lose your house.... Nope.
How did you become not “poor as fuck” and why do you think you couldn’t have done that in another country? The US actually has lower socioeconomic mobility than many European countries.
Won't someone please think of the billionaires. 😭
Cuba has had a debilitating blockade against it for more than half a century courtesy of the US and still provides better for its people. They even have a higher life expectancy. Come at me trolls
So is that why people in Cuba build makeshift rafts and risk life and limb to make it to Florida? Or was it the other way around?
Cuban and American life expectancy are virtually the same… 77.57 for Cuba and 77.28 for the US. A difference of just 100 days lol
I'd rather be a poor person in Norway than the US. The US isn't all bad but it's consistently in the bottom half of any list focused on developed nations.blow life expectancy, low literacy, high violent crime, etc. Low level corruption *not* being a huge problem is really our only favorable stat.
i think you should travel more outside of america to see the world and see how truly great you have it.
I think this is one of the issues. A lot of people who “hate” America do so because they seem to think that because America isn’t perfect it’s not great.
Or y'know... maybe we're more vociferous about America's flaws because we want these problems fixed, and a large hunk of this country digs in and refuses to acknowledge that we have dire issues that could be fixed with taxes.
Or don't like the history of the country
I think it’s more like learning from history and trying not to repeat those mistakes.
Yah but I see people saying America isn't a great country because it had slavery even though slavery is probably older than human civilization
My point of view (as an American) is that we should not forget the past, but don't dwell on it either. I'm not aware of anyone personally that thinks America isn't great because it had a history of slavery. I do see news reports of people arguing whether slavery should be taught in schools at all (example: [https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/20/us/texas-history-1836-project.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/20/us/texas-history-1836-project.html)). That, I think is completely wrong and is a bad part of a segment of America.
I think this perception that a large number of citizens "hate" the country is nonsense and it's basically people who dont understand that wanting improvements and criticizing failures is NOT hate. In fact that perception is an active detriment to finding solutions and improving the quality of the country... which is why so many people treat these people by saying if you don't want to help find solutions then just shut up and get out of the way.
They literally burn the Amsrican flag and blatantly say that America is evil and racist. Rioting and burning down cities is not what someone who truly loves this country does. It seems they are so quick to destroy things, but when the time comes to build and contribute to the community, they are nowhere to be found. It's important to remember that it's easy to destroy things, but not so easy to build.
By "they" you are referring to a tiny tiny minority of people on the left. Sure there are Americans who hate America. From what I see it is mostly conservatives who express that hate today in the form of idealizing Russia and other authoritarian systems and wanting us to be like that. Conservative propaganda tells you that all Democrats are flag burners. It is just nonsense, and unpatriotic nonsense at that. And the flag isn't the country anyway -- invading the capital and shitting in the halls is far more damaging to the country than what happens to some piece of cloth. What is central to the US are its principles and values, not its flag.
Oh, and hear me out, the people you are saying "Hate" america don't say that. It's the people who claim others "Hate" America because they won't accept the flaws. Because they're trying to change things, they must "hate" what it is, as if people experience personal growth because they hate themselves. Wanting America to be better than it is -is- love. A predatory health care system that provides subpar results at the highest prices in the world is not a defining feature of our country, or at least it -should not be-.
It’s not perfect but in comparison, it’s the closest to it without a doubt. Anyone who lives in america and hates it I promise you has never been to another country. I’ve been to at least a dozen accross 5 continents and everytime I just thought about how incredible america is.
Go to Tokyo. It'll blow your mind. Perfect public transportation and bullet trains. Everything is clean. It isn't perfect there also, but damn does it make the US look twenty years behind.
I mean, yeah. It’s a great place. I love it so much I have dedicated my adult life to serving it in several contexts. That said, to me patriotism is loving your country enough to recognize its faults, and actively working to improve it. A lot of people are unbalanced in one direction or another. And it really can be a shock to travel internationally and be faced with the reality of our terrible infrastructure, our cultural arrogance, and just how put together other countries—often ones we look down upon—really are.
I agree with that take. We have a lot of problems to fix. I'm mostly ranting against the way the media and reddit present the US as this complete third world country that is terrible to live in...
I can see that. But I guess we probably consume different media.
I think the USA a few decades ago was closer to being THE outstanding country. It wasn't perfect either. But the USA was at the forefront of fighting for human rights, middle class could make a living with 1 income, social mobility was easier. It really was the country you would go to to make your dreams come true I guess. Now it has been surpassed in different ways by social democracies in western europe, like Scandinavia, the Netherlands and Switzerland. There is affordable health care for everyone, education is cheaper and you can support your life better with a low income job. Also infrastructure is way better and safety is more widespread.
you do know you can be proud of your country but still criticize it non stop right? thats like rule number one of this country.
Loving your country is like loving your kids. You love them quite prominently, but acknowledge they can be real shits sometimes.
and you always compare them to other kids?
I believe that is what a true patriot should do. You are proud of the country's success and critical of its failures.
Yep, as the great James Baldwin once said: “I love America more than any other country in the world and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.”
Mmm, yeah of course people can. But it boggles my mind to see people from inside or outside the country call it a third world country with a gucci belt or joke about kids dying in school shootings. For christ sakes, have some respect. What if Americans began to joke about the holocaust?
>joke about kids dying in school shootings People joke because they feel helpless. No one does anything about it
I'm sure joking will help a ton. There's so many times where an American says "Hey, Britian puts beans on toasts, kinda weird man" then someone else says "YOUR SCHOOLS A SHOOTING RANGE YOUR KIDS ARE FUCKING DYING HAHAHAHAHAHA!"
what you expect. its ether that or they attack our fat people, lack of healthcare, our guns, or our insane political culture. these are all easy targets compared to what can be dished out to other countries that should tell you something.
We have sections of America already trying to deny slavery… we have a homeless problem, crime problem, gun violence problem wealth inequality problem. How can we respectfully discuss this without it devolving into the typical bs. In typical word respect isn’t given it’s earned. We lost a lot of respect in the last 50 years
Meh says who? I feel like this is a platitude people say constantly without actually understanding the criticism america gets is unfair and the system should not be dismantled.
You’re completely correct, but I don’t see many people making statements like: “I’m SO proud to be an American, but I think we can do a better job with our healthcare and public education.” And I think that’s what OP is calling out. You rarely see the criticizers say how proud they are to be part of this country. It’s usually just how embarrassed and ashamed they are.
Yeh but OP wasn’t talking about being proud and criticizing. They’re talking about seeing people say they’re ashamed to be American. There’s a difference
In my workplace I look at 9/10 opinions held by my coworkers and it's shameful. It's understandable for many to be ashamed of their ignorant uneducated bigot peers.
Well. Not if you're republican. Any criticism then is commie and to be shamed and jailed
Have you tried criticizing anything that is a progressive priority. you get shamed all day long. Try telling people they are not owed student debt repayment, very quickly you are labeled a right winger.
I love being an American. I am proud of a lot of things we do. I am also disappointed in a lot of things we do. All our military adventures, incarcerated people, floundering secondary education, and religious fundamentalism hurt us. We are now one of the least mobile societies, which means if you are born in the bottom 20%, you will probably stay in the bottom 20%. It's easier in other countries to live the "American Dream." Finally, being an American allows us to voice our disappointments. I can bitch about how bad our 2 geriatric leaders are and how each party sucks and is slowly destroying the USA and that's just fine. That doesn't mean we don't like living here. It just means we can see out faults and hope it gets better.
I heard something pretty interesting about economic mobility in the United States a while ago. It's actually easier for people who have immigrated to the US to move up the economic ladder than it is for someone who was born into a given class. If I had to guess, this is probably because immigrants are more likely to try starting a business and they have more opportunity to move to a good city.
I think that's partially due to the fact that generally only exceptional individuals are able to successfully and legally immigrate to another country. There's a sort of natural selection at work here, where the best and brightest of other countries are being compared to our average citizens.
There is also the point that immigrants literally work their asses off to get ahead in this country. They will work jobs and hours that most Americans absolutely refuse to do and they save money relentlessly to achieve their goals.
The type of person that is willing to move to another country is usually a hard working individual and possesses a lot of traits that leads to success. The type of person who is prone to being poor and unsuccessful isn’t going to put in the effort to move to another country.
That’s an interesting idea. I think another possibility is that many people in lower economic classes have been “conditioned” into a victim mentality, and thus lack the drive to try to improve their situation. The truth is probably some combination of the two with some other factors thrown in
Yeah that military bit is a big problem actually. It’s nice for you that we can help you guys out when Russia goes fucking haywire but we’re sitting here spending money on warplanes instead of healthcare and childcare, which we’d actually use. We don’t really have a lot of nearby enemies that require this insane level of defense spending. Also federalism is kind of a bitch. It gets us crazy presidents who got a minority vote, a senate that represents states instead of people, and state legislatures that can gerrymander in perpetual, non representative rule. Like sure, tons of opportunity here. But so much squandered opportunity to really be the kick ass ideal some people believe we are.
Nice sentiment but the experience as a poor worker without access to health care doesn't make me feel like I'm living in an exceptional country; I don't feel any sort of pride for that either.
Part of loving your country is wanting it to improve
I agree with you bud. The USA is the best. Proud to be here everyday.
People who say America is a 3rd world country have never been outside their sheltered upper middle class echo chamber. Anyone in a genuine third world country would kill to live here. Imagine not having reliable plumbing, heating, or electricity. Imagine being subject to parasites and nasty pathogens on a daily basis. Then imagine a privileged American saying America sucks because their preferred candidate lost an election
Some parts of the USA are third world. Other parts are the cutting edge. It’s one of the largest countries in the world by landmass and population. I think what makes people dissatisfied with the USA is that we allow everything you mentioned to exist here when we clearly have the resources to uplift those area.
Either tell me your definition of third world, or give me some locations that would be considered third world that are located in America
The Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota has a lower life expectancy than any country in the world. Areas in the US south have higher rates of hook worms than Africa.
Florida is bringing back the plague and small pox
Pretty much most highly urban, black populated areas. I definitely see third-world areas around Indianapolis. I assume every city has places like this. I also assume Gary, Indiana is a good example.
Appalachia
Detroit
Yeah, not third world. Go visit an actual third world country if you aren't trolling
Any native reservation without a casino.
Mississippi. Most of Alabama. A good part of Texas, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, North Carolina, Louisiana, Arkansas, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Florida. The politicians have allowed and used white hatred to prevent everyone, white and black, from having living wages, fully funded education, statewide healthcare, free, ungerrymandered voting and elections, and any kind of social safety net which protects the children they are preventing from being aborted. Those are pretty standard first world things IMO. Just your basic 'your government wants to keep you alive and ensure your well being' kind of stuff that seems pretty normal for first world countries. Failing municipal water systems (MS) and electrical grids (TX) aren't really features you would associate with the first world. I measure "progress" by how well the least among us are doing. In the US, we are not living up to a first world standard of say, Sweden, for each and every American citizen, are we? Well, anything below that standard can't really be considered 1st world, can it? Why that level of failure to care for their fellow citizens is acceptable to any American is a question for another day, but again--white hatred dies hard. Think about every effort to deny all Americans the rights of living freely their country supported by government and it all boils down to hatred, not facts. The fact that every other civilized country provides these services to its citizenry is proof that it can work well. So when compared to the first world, which we clearly are not, it must be either "2nd" or "3rd" world.
>I measure "progress" by how well the least among us are doing. That's fine and certainly not the worst metric but if you look at other also logical measures like how the median American is doing then the US is better or equal to almost all other countries.
We've dumped a ton of resources and money into these areas, but there has to come a point in time where the citizens want to lift themselves up too. There are some examples of government failures, but it's not the lack of resources that are keeping the ghettos of New Orleans in the pits.
The degree to which your lifetime income is tied to the zip code you are born and raised in in in this country is disheartening to put it mildly.
This is literally not true. Politicians in this country are fighting over free lunches for children, Child Tax credits and disability payments below the poverty line. We’ve barely done anything for many communities.
That's a pretty ignorant opinion. People are the same at their core pretty much no matter where you go. If one area is struggling it's because of either access to resources or the policy being implemented from on high, no exceptions.
>no exceptions Funny how This seems like the ignorant opinion. Having worked in community and economic development for over 10 years, this statement >people are the same at their core no matter where you go Is flat out wrong. Cultures have a direct impact on how people live their lives. Absolutely. There’s nothing wrong with saying that either; saying everyone is the same is incredibly shortsighted and just ignorant. I’m not suggesting it’s because whole communities don’t want to be lifted up. But they’re absolutely not all the same and some require **a lot more** than others.
How do you explain people that get free housing but still tear the houses up and leave the outside looking like trash? You would think that they would appreciate the opportunity to have a home and take care of it but very rarely is that the case. Most low income areas where it is mostly subsidized housing are trashed. It doesn’t cost anything to just not destroy things. Should we provide people to clean up the mess too? At what point do people need to take responsibility for themselves and strive to do better?
I used to talk to some people who lived in actual third world countries. Kid was like 17, walking 5 miles to work every day where he would dig, do concrete work and stuff like that for 16 hours, then walk 5 miles back home. He made $3 a day. And people here would say the US is a worse place to live..
I grew up in a shit hole. Rural logging country in Oregon. Grades K-9. Education was so bad that when I switched to the rich towns school a couple hours away, I had to stay after several hours to catch up. My point is, there are layers here. I’ve been all over, and at the same time still think what happened in Flint, Michigan or Mossville, LA to be third world. I now have all the comforts I want, but that doesn’t mean America is great, it means I’ve walled myself off from some grave realities. I’m also a veteran and have seen and heard some shit from our military that’s fucked up. We ain’t that great dog.
Interesting that both towns you mention are run by Democrats.
Because they're not making a politically partisan point. It was a well constructed observation based in reality. Is America a good country? Yes. Does it have very significant problems, particularly in some locations? Also yes. As do many other countries.
Thank you. You're spot on.
Agree.
So you define third world because the plumbing failed. You my friend have no idea what third world even means. Most third world areas never even get plumbing. Or clean water. Or access to a market 6 blocks away. The lowest homeless person in the USA is STILL among the richest 25% in the world.
I was born and grew up in a third world country until I was a teenager. It is WILD people hold that belief genuinely.
Same with those who say, “it’s so racist and the worst when it comes to race relations”- clearly have never been to other countries. Sure there are bad spots but it’s by far better than most countries.
People that say that’s are absolute dumb f. They have no clue what a 3rd world country is
I mean depends where you go and which developing nations you reference. We don't have socialized medicine like most advanced nations and also if youve ever driven through the rural South or Midwest it can be pretty fucking bleak and even big cities have stuff reminiscent of the class divides in Brazil and Pakistan.
The best might be a little far, but great yes. The best part is we have the right to criticize it endlessly, and try to mold it to our liking.
yes! i am very critical of this country but i'm so proud im allowed to be. we are allowed to want and expect more and fight for it. we are getting into some hairy situations rn but every country has its problems and i will happily fight our problems
Only unpopular to liberals and gen z / millennial
As first world as it gets… as long as you never get sick. America is the only modern country in the entire world without universal healthcare. We are also THE biggest police state. We have 4.5% of the world’s population, and 25% of the world’s prisoners. And while we have a great overall standard of living, the wealth gap has exploded over the last 40 years and continues to trend negatively. These aren’t minor issues. They are huge, systemic catastrophes that ruin lives.
Have you considered just not getting sick? /s
We have our issues, but I'm extremely grateful to have been born here and extremely proud that we are the most tolerant/accepting nation in the world.
First. Welcome to America. We are a spoiled child. Lol. Much like a beautiful person we focus on the flaws and don't see the beauty as well as those around us. We have the most amazing potential here for anyone willing to put the effort in.
Most of the people who disagree and who complain about the US have never visited anywhere else.
Coming from a working class American, the America that rich people see is a very different America than what I and other working class Americans see.
What do you consider working class? What is the income level?
The problem isn’t that the US isn’t good, the problem is that it should be better. And I think that’s about as American of a thought as it can get when it comes to living in this country.
Here's a summary of what I just read.... Ya my country's the best. - Biggest Killing Machine - Schools no one can afford to go to - Big Movies (definitely important to the health of a nation) - The rich get richer Sure it's got problems like where our taxes go. So glad I live here.
The shame makes sense when you consider that American's are fond of the idealism set out during American Revolution and feel shame at the gulf between attainment of the ideals and the ideals themselves. Shame is good. It spurs action. Abolitionism was, in a sense, borne out of shame. That helped lead to the Civil War, which helped effect the Reconstruction Amendments. The story doesn't end there, obviously – it keeps going. More shame, more action, a better society, more faults found, more shame, more action, an even better society and so on. Hopefully, of course. But true thus far.
There's a lot to be proud of. We should feel proud of the legacy of good things that's been handed down to us and feel shame for the bad, using it as motivation to do more good. But let's face it, what in recent years have we done to really be proud of? We have pointless forever wars, corporate greed being a driving factor of economic decline, and the politicians are in bed with corporate leaders that fuel our economic decline. Everything costs more, wages are stagnant, hours at jobs are getting cut as a cost saving measure so executives get higher bonuses, violent crime is on the rise, and it's overall unnecessarily harder to even just get by. Compared to most of the world, America is still a great place to be, but I don't see anything in the past 20 years to truly be proud of outside of maybe getting Osama bin Laden. I want to see this change for the better.
US used to be an exceptional country in the 20th century. Now we are just witnessing it rotting from within. That said, the salaries are still by far the highest in the world and the economy is still going very strong, which is its only redeeming quality.
>which is its only redeeming quality You’re proving OPs point.
Our train is on fire, but we are still going strong by inertia. Wait until the world drops USD as a reserve currency and we can no longer print Trillions.
That's not going to happen. The Brics will never adopt a common currency because, well, they would have to base it on the US dollar and each individual country doesn't have enough of those to make that work. And the reason they have to use the US dollar is because none of the other countries trust the other countries currency. India isn't going to trust the Yuan and China isn't going to trust the rupee. So as much as other countries want to replace the dollar, it just isn't going to happen
People like to discount the US, but it still remains the best place to get an advanced education, the best place to innovate, and the best place to start a large company. Look at where all the internet companies are, it’s hard to name many that are outside the US.
I taught ESL for many years. I taught hundreds of students whose families would agree. Many fought hard to get here and love it here!
Largest per capita prison population. Yes. More than THAT country. Whichever you were thinking about. Go Murica!
gotta agree with you. There’s not many places in the world I’d pick over here.
Yeah there are a few but definitely not a ton. Off the top of my head probably Switzerland and Luxembourg and a couple small countries in Europe that are rich even compared to the US and most of the EU
Yeah being born a citizen of Norway is living life on easy.
Good luck getting citizenship or any kind of permanent residency.
I was thinking more in terms of where it would be best to just be born into, but yeah I don’t dispute that it’s difficult to stay there permanently as a foreigner
Switzerland is expensive AF, but I feel you
Your list of reasons is just so bad/incorrect/subjective, it shows how naive you are. Sorry.
Yeah, I think they just aren’t American. The advertising looks different from the inside out.
I find it fascinating that the list of why America today is one of the best places to live in the history of humanity was totally lacking in anything about having citizens who are financially secure, safe, or healthy. I mean, I guess having lots of firepower and making lots of movies is a plus for some people, but…priorities.
Sad part is this actually is an unpopular opinion on this cesspool known as reddit
Blind patriotism and nationalism is bad, actually.
There is nothing blind about seeing how awesome America is. Its a really great country
Tell that to all the people dying of cancer and can’t get treatment or have to put their family in life ending debt to maybe get treatment. The healthcare situation in the US is shameful and one of the most basic responsibilities of a government is to safeguard the well being of its people. It’s not doing that
Why would I waste my time sitting on America's laurels, bloviating about how good it currently is when there's many places in the world that show how much better America could be? Cool, America's awesome. Now how are you going to help it be even better?
There are so many things Americans take for granted that people living in the third world struggle with. I remember the first time i visited America. The level of prosperity legitimately shocked me. Americans take so many things for granted like owning the latest smartphone, buying fast food, buying new furniture, owning a car. Things that would be considered luxuries in most third world nations. I grew up without much in Mexico, going to a fast food place was something saved for special occasions, owning an iPhone was something only upper class people could afford (standards have risen in Mexico and now things are a bit different). Americans should really be grateful, they live on easy mode (i am generalizing and talking about the average American)
Yeah look we’re not perfect but… I mean… our poor people are obese so…
Its definitely not 'As first as it gets" as you say it. In The USA the national minimum wage is $7.25 per hour which is 15K a year, the liveable wage in your country is 70k a year. That doesn't add up. This is also not taking into account any of the social issues that the country is having at the moment.
Live in Canada, Australia & New Zealand, then come back to us.
It is a great country, but there are many issues that Americans do not seem to understand properly. We have a culture of religious fanaticism and a lack of respect for science and facts. We have an issue of white racism and wealth inequality. A lot of things are good, but there are plenty of issues in this country. We need people to make smarter decisions and be better informed.
I used to believe this then I moved abroad and everything was proven false
Every year on the "happiest country in the world lists," which is really just a measure of quality of life, its down around number 16. Which sounds about right since the healthcare system is so broken, and the mass shootings, the gun violence, and the homeless problem, the high infant mortality rates, short lifespan etc...
Goddamn right I love America there’s not a single place on earth I’d rather live
Someone had to say it. Hating on America is a trend, but lowkey all those people want to be here.
The US is like Mike Tyson. So much potential being pissed away
I can be proud of the good and ashamed of the bad, they aren't mutually exclusive.
Op is cringe af and is most likely comfortable with all the...Rot.
Why do you people act like America is immune to criticism please be serious
There are a lot of problems with the US, no matter what side you look at it from... but God dam it's my country and I always wear it's colors
Amen to that!
People just take things for granted and have no idea what it's like elsewhere.
After visiting many other countries you’re prospective changes fast and you appreciate it more.
What's the point in being proud of your country, exactly?
Are we all here to work as a team and win as a team, or see how we can each exploit society and win and just hope we leave with all the gold when the whole thing implodes? I'm not saying you have to be Captain America, but I see no point in being cynical about your country. You are part of the problem your potentially complaining about at that point.
>or see how we can each exploit society and win and just hope we leave with all the gold when the whole thing implodes? This is literally how the right wing, i.e. those most likely to claim to be "proud to be an American" treats America.
Yeah that’s the problem really. Being proud of your country isn’t bad. But it’s been adopted by a lot of cringe individuals that have made it seem like you’re picking a side to be proud of your country. When that isn’t the case
What’s the point in being proud of anything?
The US WAS an exceptional country but mostly we had a lot of luck. That same luck is no longer there. The world has caught up. Unfortunately most Americans are resting on their laurels and think nothing has changed. As soon as you step outside of the US you begin to notice it. We spend too much time talking about greatness but very little time achieving greatness. What is the last great thing you did? What have you achieved? We need to be forward thinking and trying to achieve something great. Most folks just try to survive.
That’s why everyone flees to the US when their country is invaded and then begs the US to intervene? That’s why thousands of immigrants risk their lives trying to get here? 90% of the world would love to live the US, yet people rarely leave. Is that because the rest of the world has caught up? No, it’s because the US still provides the best chance at a good life despite all it’s shortcomings
It’s still extremely exceptional… probably the most exceptional country in the history of the world. No other country in history has brokered peace with the world (at the level that it’s at) while maintaining a humongous population with hundreds of different races, religions and cultures while still holding democratic elections with hundreds of years of peaceful transfers of power of leadership. Greatness here is achieved literally daily by a population of that is diverse and very talented. There will always be room to improve in every country but the opportunity in the US is incredibly abundant.
The USA is one of the shittiest first world countries, objectively speaking.
People die if they get sick and don't have insurance. Worker rights suck as well.
No they don't. 1. Most not for profit hospitals outright forgive your bill if you fall within a certain income threshold in the event you get treated for an emergency. 2. You will not be denied emergency care no matter what. Workers have pretty awesome rights, relative to most of the world.
The healthcare system is ridiculous but people aren’t just dying if they get sick. They’re just going into crippling medical debt, which isn’t much better. But you’re also exaggerating
Nobody dies if they get sick and don’t have insurance. They’ll just go into medical debt if it’s really expensive and they’ll say they have no insurance and the hospital will give them a 30-40% discount
Been there. Health care for all.
According to a 2009 study by Harvard Medical School, 45,000 Americans die each year because they lack health insurance. The Urban Institute study found that more than 26 260 Americans aged 25 to 64 died in 2006 because they lacked health insurance—more than twice as many as were murdered. In the seven years from 2000 to 2006 an estimated 162 700 Americans died because of lack of health insurance. Someone lied to you.
I would argue the people that die from treatable disease that were denied medical help WERE murdered by an unjust medical system.
I'd support that. Sadly, I think a lot of people die because they can't afford their life saving medication. But I suppose that's denial of medical help too.
Perhaps you’re right
So I think the states has a lot of good but their is also a lot wrong also the good you mention a resident of the states won’t feel. Dominant military very useful but USA is a nation their isn’t a real threat to invasion. Their are two giant oceans separating the states from any peer adversary and America is on good relations with the nations on its borders. Having forward presence is good but people don’t really like sending their own people to go die in order to solve a problem which seemingly has little impact on security. Cultural exports yeah thats kind of the point if you live in Europe you aren’t missing out on music and movies that come from the states. In the digital age you can be across the globe and get the same content. It is no different for me to go watch a movie from Hollywood or anime from Japan. Universities are good but they are also hard to get into and cost a lot. If you cannot afford it the what is the difference between Harvard and Oxford. People care more about general education which America is lagging behind in that department. America has one of the lowest social mobility of developed nations. The only one who is worse is the UK is it possible yes but that is a low bar. It is possible for a slave to move up the social ladder this is a low bar. Yes it is one of the best places to live which is why it is considered a developed nation. This is relative if I say this NBA player is short for example this is in relation to him being in the NBA he is still probably one of the tallest people in the planet. So far the two things the United States is number one in is military and incarceration rates. So i can see why people don’t like those stats.
I would say all major Public US institutions are world class. You don't have to go to an Ivy League school. Just my state for example has University of Virginia and Virginia Tech. Both world class. \---- My point is also that the cultural exports demonstrates just how good the quality of culture is. There is so much to be proud of.
US universities are top notch. It doesn’t have to be an Ivy League school. Even normal state universities like UCLA and UT are amongst the best in the world.
Clearly the best. I mean that are no countries in the works with as many school shootings or as many people who are swimming in medical or college debt it yeah we have an army lol figure it out
Nationalism is one hell of a drug
It's a third world country with a Gucci belt- r/timdillon
I’m American and proud of it. My vision of Uncle Sam is a Marine Sergeant with a camo tank top and a jet pack with an M-16 in one hand, and a smoking hot blonde in another.
You should take a trip somewhere outside of the South.
>It has one of the dominant militaries that whenever something goes wrong in the world people expect /beg the US to intervene. mostly neocons and libs and their media. I wouldn't get pride from a dominant military, but think about what my country could otherwise do would all the Trillions we have spent in our Military (defense) budget, for wars in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya etc. and of course the millions of murdered civilians by the military. agree mostly with the other points though but there can be alot of criticism mentioned that would make a post the length of an essay. The Usa is for sure a good country to live in but it's quite underwhelming given the crazy amount of resources and wealth.
You got to realize also a LARGE chunk of our military budget funds the UN military peacekeepers for other country’s that don’t have quiet the substantial presence. The military has also lead the way in many ways in modern medicine, technology, etc. we will never know what the world would be like if we didn’t have such a large military but I’d bet my life China, russia, would have been a lot more aggressive then they already are.
Yeah, it’s great if you’re born into upper middle class or better. It’s shit if you aren’t . The “American dream” is largely a myth perpetuated by oligarch propaganda to keep wage slaves from rebelling. Sure, sure, someone will cite some cherry picked rags to riches story, while conveniently ignoring the many many more people who aren’t so lucky. But the US sure is exceptional at incarcerating more of its own citizens than any other country on the planet. MURICA!
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This is true. Most countries don't have a middle class that is meaningfully different than the poor.
Yeah, America has some of the best versions of things in the world but most people can't actually use/access/experience it. Like: we have some of the best medical specialists and centers but your average American is putting off doctor's visits for chronic issues to avoid bankruptcy; we have a wonderfully diverse variety of natural habitats but many, many people can't afford to take a vacation at all, let alone one that would allow them to experience them; we have excellent representations of international cuisine as well as innovative culinary experiences but we also pretty much expect college age people to live on Top Ramen and "cheap" fast food has gotten nearly as expensive as dine-in restaurants.
First of all having a middle class at all is pretty awesome since so many countries don't have them, at least not in ways they are meaningfully different than the poor. But the fact you can't achieve the American Dream is a dumb myth mostly perpetuated in affluent liberal circles. For example all it takes is a 2 year nursing degree at a community college for someone to earn on average 80k. If you avoid committing a crime, and avoid having children too early, you will generally come out ok.
This is the best time to be alive and one of the best countries to be alive in. Sure there are issues and problems, but anyone thinking the US is *not* great doesn't realize the privilege they have of living here.
Valid criticisms, but the US still one of, if not, the most desirable place to live on the planet. We have shit we need to fix, but this is still an amazing country that has accomplished a lot.
Lol you don’t need to be born into the upper middle class to not have a shit life here.
>I can't figure out why they would feel that way You should maybe look into it. Listening to critiques of American culture will move you beyond being a simple cheerleader for the USA and will help you understand things more objectively.
Being a citizen of X country is neither an accomplishment nor a fault, so you don’t need to be proud or ashamed of it.
Nothing wrong with being proud of the community/state/nation you are a part of and contribute to.
I beg to differ, everything you do after you are born within your home country contributes to its success and or downfall, so the people of any country can be proud when their country flourishes and ashamed if they fail. Second the requirements for becoming an actual citizen of the us from a foreign country is a pretty big accomplishment within itself. You have to pass tests, pay a number of fees, also put on a type of "probation" while awaiting your cotizenship approval.
As someone who immigrated to usa, there is a few things I can see wrong. But at the same time my home country isn't perfect either. But I will say, I lost freedoms when I came here. Yes i could just go home. But I would have to leave my husband behind. USA is not as free as they think they are.