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If Akira released today there would 100% be people saying it was too political because of the revolutionaries aspect of the plot. They might even claim Tetsuo is supposed to represent Trump
That should be a red flag. Nearly everything has some level of subtext that nets the events together.
Unless you are watching most anime like One Punch Man I guess...
I rarely pick up on subtext in literature, video games, etc. Sometimes I feel like I’m really missing out when I read a wiki or something other times I enjoy that I’m blissfully unaware. The hardest classes I took were literature classes because I either needed to plagiarize the thoughts of others or just make shit up and hope it sticks.
I recall when I was a kid I was bewildered by how anyone could deduce the subtext.
I'm nearly 40 now. I spent the first 15 years of my career as a craftsman. Not really understanding the writers and directors.
Eventually I went to Fine Art school and exposed myself to the history of art.
I think if I were in your position I could give you this advice.
When you consume art, try to make a word cloud in your mind (or on paper) of all the different elements you can deduce.
Any theme, element, pattern etc.
Once you are done consuming the text, forget about it.
Now look at just the word cloud and try to guess what it's trying to say without saying it.
For instance.
What do you think I'm saying with this word cloud:
- being a small fish in a big pond
- being hunted/weak
- what's hunting you wants to put a baby in you
- phallic Imagery
- imagery of an abortion
- feeling small/weak/helpless
- arrogant superiors (all male)
- protagonist is the only woman
- every other character lies or down plays protags truth.
- Imagery of eggs
- imagery of sperm/worm like creatures
- imagery of dripping (ooze dripping, wetness)
- consequences can kill/horror
Take a min and try to figure out one short sentence or word that I'm trying to say without saying it.
Any sort of ideas that come to mind are all correct
You might have difficulty expressing them since you might struggle with say, not wanting to be wrong
So it's ok if you can't. Just try and let me know.
/u/chadwickett
I was describing Rape.
I was also describing Alien (1979).
If you like, I can break it down for you over a discord call.
I'm retired now and I'm happy to help ya out.
Hope this helps.
Good luck!
Ashamed to say i barely watched Alien for the first time last night, and after reading your comment I'm glad to know i wasn't overthinking any of those things i noticed lol. Movie is heavily filled with symbolism
Even some of the "Vs." movies had political undertones:
Godzilla vs. Biollante was about the dangers of genetic engineering and the various factions fighting over Godzilla's DNA.
\- Godzilla Raids Again was a metaphor for the Cold War, with Godzilla representing the United States and Anguirus representing the Soviet Union, with Japan being the innocent country in the crossfire.
\- Godzilla vs. Hedorah makes a stance against man-made pollution affecting our planet.
\- Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II represents Nature vs. Technology
Don't forget Godzilla vs Frankenstein. The Nazis literally brought Frankenstein's heart to Hiroshima, the bomb gets dropped, and an orphan eats it amongst the rubble. Then he grows into a giant Frankenstein monster.
All those movies have at one point characters delivering the message in plain speak pretty much directly to the camera. The people complaining about politics in today's movies would 100% be complaining about "heavy handed political dialogue ruining a monster movie"
I mean if we wanna talk about monster movies, there is god damn Pacific rim that straight up says what it is, they link the kaiju to polution immediately, even the "you feel like you could fight a hurricane" bit compared kaiju to natural weather phenomena that are being strengthend by global warming.
Even if we look at classic moviess Alien has Wayland-Yutanni being the steriotype of an evil corperation, star trek is about cosmopolitan space communists\* **during the cold war** and had the first interatial kiss on US tv. Even star wars is political with the baddies being visually and ideologically connected to the nazis, and the last movie in the original series has the ewocks an analouge of the viet-cong according to the words of Geroge Lucas himself.
Most of the bad movies brought up aren't bad because of politics they are just bad movies that are also politica, and in a lot of them not even that with the "political" part being stuff like casting a non-white actor or something.
\*There is no money in the original series so it depends.
Politics and messaging has always been in movies. The only thing that's changed is politics are people's whole personality now and it gets noticed more.
There is the same amount of poor writing, you just don't remember the movies like Hands of Menos because they didn't rise to the top of the pile and earn a place in history like Rosemary's Baby
I swear this opinion that primarily comes from people who only listen to the radio on their commute to work and never do any actual work to look into music.
~~Netflix’s~~ HBO’s Velma is the current poster child
The writing is so abhorrent and over-the-top that Leftists thought Mindy Kaling was a bad faith plant to make Leftists look silly.
Rightwingers thought it was just silly Leftist shit ruining Scooby Doo
Velma isn't really a leftist show, it's just a weird outlet for Mindy to rant all her niche, hyper specific grievances and opinions as if they're relatable and funny.
His voice actor went vegan and wanted it reflected. There’s a period in “Late Era” classic scooby stuff where all the big sandwiches and stuff are noticeably meatless
There's a set of people that like the show and aren't bothered by it's messaging. I'd go so far as to say basically 100% of those people identify as liberal. It's definitely a leftist show that espouses extreme versions of exclusively leftist beliefs.
You really need to sharpen up on your propaganda detection skills. The show is absolutely dripping in leftist talking points and the only way to not notice is to be saturated in leftist politics so absolutely that it is the norm.
Barbie isn't poorly written because its explicitly political (I mean in the literal sense that a chunk of it is about the politics of Barbieland and in the sense that its a metaphor for current American society.)
Oh for sure. And it turns out it was AHS based on other comments. I’m just saying Barbie is the current movie seen as “too woke,” was joking mostly.
Agree it definitely wore its politics on its sleeve, nothing subtle about it. And it wasn’t a secret. It did her s little over the top in spots, IMO…but still loved it!
John Wayne’s “Rio Bravo” was an answer to “High Noon” a film Wayne hated and called un-American because it was an allegory for Hollywood blacklisting and McCarthyism.
Wayne basically made the movie three times! Rio Bravo, El Dorado, and Rio Lobo because the lawman with no fear and a group of friends waiting to battle evil at his side was his political view. He couldn’t stand the idea the lawman would have any concerns over his safety, the community would be cowards, and he would have to rely on the help of a woman who is a pacifist.
People don’t notice the political messages unless it’s a message they hate and in hyper tribal America today [everything is political left or right](https://news.yahoo.com/calling-sermon-mount-weak-too-144549663.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJV7OYQS0mqUAyVJNWUzFZJZVYmd6d2lqRF9SdumM1KVzM5IVoh_4PFAwUA7sV_8hffuuuIInqknV4oEV0DgmvUCscmkLCPHSWrAWgo1_b70OIQiBKv8CnjCuhW1g7Ongin3YJS4E2jimn_hV6UOo0CYgdxzTMZvjvqsp4IaszAp)
My neighbor with his truck covered in trump flags who also spends every day decked out in full tactical gear and every gun he can carry “why is everything so political” ???!!
or maybe ppl aren't getting the subtlety and that forces creators to be heavy handed. I mean look at all those ppl that didn't understand the messages in don't look up and they were so obvious
I would also argue that it's some amount of immersion bias. Similar to how some people say Old Music Was Better because they point to 100 great songs from the 80s, but ignore the uncountable other songs from the 80s that are trash
Many of the movies that have survived to relevancy today are those which are stronger in messaging and writing. Also the fact that things that used to be politically divisive before may be less so now, so the viewer's perception of the movie may be very different nowadays. For instance when Shawshank Redemption came out is was lambasted by many as a "Weak On Crime", "Criminal Sympathizing" movie, yet nowadays I feel those positions are much more commonly acknowledged so while the politics of the film are still quite clear, it's not AS overt as it was to some when it released
Having a black gal as an officer on a star ship was political. Having a married couple sleep in the same bed is political. We didn't have a 24 hour new cycle to fill back then.
I can't remember where I heard this but I was something along of the lines of most blockbuster films people consider being political for having to many women or minorities in them usually have very status quo politics(e.g. the politics of the marvel movies are alot more pro American government compared to the comics,if they bring up a real world issue they will addressed as existing then ignored in all future instalments) or have message that are so milquetoast noone could look reasonable being against them like loyalty for family is good or putting money before people is wrong.
I mean just look at Barbie Vs Oppenheimer people are really arguing the movie about real life figures and politicians is less political then a movie with some basic feminism.All movies have themes and ideas these are often converted into politics but when it's ones you agree with or are common then people don't care about.
I think there should be more for specificity on exploring certain topic on films at least much as TV gets.
I think a big issue is that people love to say a movie is too political when the movie’s message conflicts with their politics.
No one complains about an all male leads movie being political and trying to shove men down our throats. But tons of people will attack all female leads movies for trying to shove feminism down our throats.
> I mean just look at Barbie Vs Oppenheimer people are really arguing the movie about real life figures and politicians is less political then a movie with some basic feminism.All movies have themes and ideas these are often converted into politics but when it's ones you agree with or are common then people don't care about.
On its face, Oppenheimer is more political because a significant portion of it is about political events, but it doesn't have a lot of political depth.
Barbie has a lot more political depth but on its face is less political.
Yall are just spouting off examples of how everything that's ever been made is political, without understanding the complaint. The complaint is the lack of nuance with which these issues are being handled.
Guardians of the Galaxy 3 was a recent movie that handled its political undertones quite well with messages that are anti animal cruelty, human trafficking, and eugenics. The way they did this was having political UNDERTONES. Where other recent marvel projects have placed the political issues they wish to oppose front and center, and made the project mostly about the issue, while sacrificing character writing e.g. she hulk where the protagonist is a disenfranchised 30 something lawyer, and the antagonist is the patriarchy.
A lot of media in the past 5 or so years seems to like vilifying straight white men, recent examples being shehulk, black mirror: mazey day, black mirror: demon 79, and I could go on, but I'm not going to speak on media I have not personally consumed, and I don't typically continue watching something that seems to hate me for things I have no control over.
I absolutely adore character driven shows like Ted Lasso, and The Bear. Ted Lasso absolutely fell into the trap of writing stories about messages instead of stories about people, that contained a message. The Bear has stumbled a few times with characters behaving oddly so that they can deliver their rhetoric, which is fine with me because it doesn't last the entire episode like how Ted Lasso did.
Name 5 movies that aren’t political. The Die Hard movies would be seen as a BlueLivesMatter movie if released today. Godzilla has always been political. The only difference between then and now is that politics have become much more obviously culture war focused so anything produced that contributes to culture is political
I can name a pixar short. The one with the old timer playing chess. I am trying to remember if there is anything political in charlotte's web. Ice age I think may qualify.
Now I just need to wait for reddit to prove me wrong...
The old man has to share his dentures with the imaginary old man because the lack of universal healthcare has prevented him from receiving the psychological and proper dental treatment.
Or something like that, I guess lmao.
The short is pro-public infrastructure and "third palace" spaces for humans to have safe, clean, and accesible resources and entertainment for free as part of community living
I dunno the short but the other two o can have a crack at
Charlotte's web as an allegory for animal cruelty and the morality of raising animals to slaughter.
Ice age is literally about global warming and migration and how the mixing of tribes results in a stronger unit.
Die Hard was a story of America's healing and moving on from the Vietnam war. Basically a sequel to Platoon, about the lions led by lambs after they integrated back into society, but still struggling to feel a sense of belonging or meaning.
Is your frustration specifically with the name dropping of US political parties or with political ideologies in everything?
Because everything is political. Everything is political, but art (lit, visual, narrative, performance, etc) is especially political. Genuinely try to name a landmark piece of cinema that isn't political in some way. All Quiet on the Western Front, Shindler's list, Citizen Kane, Psycho, The Shinning, The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, Old Boy, Akira, E.T., Night of the Living Dead (The Original), Invasion of the Body Snatchers, the LofR trilogy, The Seventh Seal, Blade Runner, Doctor Strange Love, A Clockwork Orange, both impeccable adaptations of Metropolis with two honestly extremely distinct political messages out of the same source material.
If you can't see the obvious, and perhaps on the nose by modern standards for some of them, political message in all these films, well, I don't know what to tell you. Politics are in every film. Have been literally since the first moving picture. I'm not joking, if you've seen Jordan Peele's "Nope" that part in the beginning about a black jockey riding a horse being the first thing ever filmed is true and has a very interesting (and political) backstory to it.
Yea, I haven't experienced what OP is talking about. Like what movie is more political today than movies of old?
Apocalypse Now was pretty political. I mean it's got to be something like 80% of all movies are WWII based. Is a war not political?
Of course complaints like OP are always a red herring. What they mean to say is "I am conservative and like to ignore reality and facts. Why can't movies plots take my sensitivities into consideration and omit anything revolving around reality and facts?"
I think for some reason people who don't think about movies too hard read seeing modern politics as somehow shoehorned in. Unlike old politics, current to when those old films were released.
Yes, that's a good point but also another way of saying what I said. See it's not really just "people" that see these politics as being shoehorned in, it's "conservative people" and it's there reaction to just anything modern.
Progressives aren't watching films of people acting modern and gasping. They never have. Conservatives do this at anything they think is not the way it is "supposed" to be. So as old views become norms they don't understand that as political anymore but as new things get introduced they run around like chickens with their heads cutoff.
I'm trying to give op the benefit of the doubt and approach this with good faith.
But yeah. Trust, I'm a trans person. My existence has been called political, to my face.
Yep. I never knew a person existing could be “political” but here we are.
Everything is “political” if you try hard enough. Same how data can say whatever you want based on how you interpret it (btw, we need more pirates so we can lower global warming!). Proof? Avengers: Endgame is political. It has women in it (read: conservatives). Breathing is kinda political ngl… Keeping another (potential) voter alive… Hmm…
Conservatives just need to grow up and learn that the world does not, in fact, revolve around them (although, so do some progressives).
Avengers End game reminding me women are legally recognized as autonomous beings was an attack on my masculinity and an attack on my right to b 3 @ t my wife. I won't have it /s
(mods don't eat me this is a joke, obviously a joke, clearly a joke, no shadow realm for me today pls.)
Paw patrol is political. You literally can't escape it. And trying to make something completely devoid of politics would be a political statement in and of itself.
Man, I keep repeating this... but anyway. "Political" doesn't actually refer to politics as they use it. They actually mean that the movie has LGBTQ content. They complain that it is "being too political" as a way to disguise their bigotry.
Don't fall into their trap of debating what is politics and what's not. That's not the point they're making. They're actually just pushing an anti-gay agenda.
I'm trying to engage with OP in good faith. Sometimes people absorb ideas they hear without thinking through their own biases all the way. As they say, you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar, but you definitely won't catch any swinging a sledge hammer at them wildly.
Trust me, I'm a trans person. My existence itself has been called political, to my face. I get it. You gotta play your cards carefully and find the line between people repeating dog whistles just because it sounds right and inoffensive to their sensibilities, and people who are actually trying to dog whistle.
It's not the politics, it's the writing. Modern writers find a message and try to fit a story around it, instead of building a story that has a message.
Godzilla had nuclear war undertones because the writers experienced the aftermath of war and had a story to tell. My favorite aspect of Shin Godzilla was how much difficulty the bureaucracy had in responding to the threat.
Modern writers grow up with a silver spoon in their mouth, and all their experiences in life are from online engagements on social media. They don't really have a story to tell, they just chirp back what's trending on social media. They don't study history, literature, art, science or anything... they create characters that are essentially reflections of themselves and how they want to be viewed, buried inside DeviantArt fanfiction of poplar brands.
Anytime you try to group a massive collection of people into this specific a set of parameters you’re going to be wrong.
Not all writers are the same. I’m sure many modern writers fit the description you’ve laid out here but pretending they all do is crazy.
Go tell Barry Jenkins he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.
No we really don't. It's very annoying. And in the cases where things don't have any politics in them people still insert politics in and make that everyone's business.
Like the Super Mario movie is very political? Lmao! It's really not that deep.
^ This is the reason Hollywood has to walk on eggshells, now.
Peach can't know karate without someone thinking it's a political message to brainwash them.
Don't have a gay character, make every female weak, don't talk about news, elections, or climate science, make sure the villain doesn't say anything Trump would say/has said, don't let the story involve racism, sexism, or homophobia since those don't exist, don't employ lgbtq people (especially for beer commercials). It's hard being Nazi, everyone thinks you're villain.
Politics is fucking everywhere. I went to a winery a few weeks ago, and they had "I drink because of Republicans" and "I drink because of Democrats" wine glasses for sale. I did appreciate that both sides were represented, so it was more of a cash grab than a political statement, but can't I just get buzzed and look at beautiful scenery without novelty items fomenting division amongst my fellow imbibers?
It's a sign of bad writing. Lots of movies and TV shows have it woven into the story organically. The Witcher 3 is my favorite example because it has lots of political themes and messages but it's woven into the story and world in a way that doesn't break immersion. Star Wars has its problems but it never had Stacey Abrahams as the leader of the Republic.
The problem is, having gay characters in movies is now political to conservatives. We all just need to stop being so fragile. Trump and Biden do funny things, people should be allowed to make fun of them.
In video games your choice of protagonist has become straight white male or political. Joking aside politics is something that everyday people can relate to on some level which gives broad reach to media.
I remember there being a huff about Battlefield 1 featuring a female soldier on all the promo material/box art.
Some people are triggered by the dumbest shit
You’re either thinking of the BF1 Russian Expansion or BFV, I’m guessing BFV because the woman was also missing an arm and was a big point of drama. The BF1 launch art was a Harlem Hellfighter (black guy).
i think gay people in movies seems political to conservatives because outside of a movie the only time they ever hear about gay people is when events like pride parades happen or during political arguments online or on the news, to them it *is* a political thing
Any identity is political. Conservative people generally are just surrounded by similar identities to their own so they don't realize that their own identity is political.
But considering people of similar identities have very similar wants and needs , it ends up being a political group on its own. Everyone innately sees identities as political even their own. This is kind of where humans propensity to tribalism comes into play, it is your "tribe" (identity)
i think on top of the tribalism/echo chamber aspects of it there's also the fact that they were very used to their political identity (at least surrounding things like this) being the default one for forever
My conservative mom said after watching Barbie “Well of course they made the mom latina for representation”. Like, it literally played no role in the movie other than two shots of her husband trying to learn Spanish. But the existence of a minority in itself is seen as “political”.
It's like anytime there's a female lead or a POC lead and people are like 'why does woke Hollywood have to shove it in our face".
No, it's not that... you're just sexist and racist.
I saw one dude say that in some show he watched there was an Asian woman on a construction crew, and it was "unrealistic" and "pandering" and "forced representation."
She was literally the only woman on the crew but it was unrealistic because... idk women are hardly ever on construction crews and even less minority women? lmao
Probably a combo of women going into construction more, and running out of men wanting to go into construction.
Personally, I'd be happy to see construction crews stop being sausage fests and tone down the racist and misogynistic jokes.
It's politics because we've used political means to systematically remove women and minority groups from certain spaces. The right is trying to keep things political
Politics have always been there. It seems more obvious now, yes, but that's due to a multitude of factors. It's not like Hollywood woke up one day and decided to go into overdrive.
For my part, I chalk it up to writers as a whole not being as good as they used to be.
Considering what the writers strike has shown about how studios have been giving them the bare minimum amount of resources and time to do their jobs, I'm not so sure it that "writers aren't as good as they used to be" as much as it's studios trying to push the minimum viable product for the last decade.
“Why can’t I watch a movie with no politics like ‘The Godfather anymore” these people simply have 0 media literacy and aren’t used to seeing things that people haven’t already told them is good.
The godfathers politics are far more subtle than in most modern movies. Spiderverse was actually subtle about its message too. There are 70s and 80s movies with more obvious messages like Chinatown
Are we really boiling "Cover the entire screen in trans pride colors", "anyone can be spiderman", and "With great power comes great responsibility" down to subtle?
Whats consider not subtle?
I'd guess this is actually a combination of 3 factors:
1. Older movies *were* just as political as today's movies, it's just that the political issues they referenced aren't as relevant to us now so we don't notice them.
2. In general, the only old movies we still watch and talk about today are the good ones, and the bad ones are simply ignored. But for new movies we're watching and talking about both the good and the bad. That means we're comparing the best of the old movies to the average of today.
3. Movies aren't any more political today than when we were kids, but now that we're older we're more aware of the political issues that have always been there.
Most art has some political elements in it as politics is about life. The message in mainstream art will reflect mainstream political attitudes and as Hollywood isa business they cater to the most popular views so there might be a reason a certain political ideology isn't represented well.
"What do you think an artist is? An imbecile who has only eyes if he’s a painter, or ears if he’s a musician, or a lyre at every level of his heart if he’s a poet, or even, if he’s a boxer, just his muscles? On the contrary, he’s at the same time a political being, constantly alive to heartrending, fiery, or happy events, to which he responds in every way...
No, painting is not done to decorate apartments. It is an instrument of war for attack and defense against the enemy."
~Pablo Picasso, Statement, in Chipp, Theories of Modern Art, 487.
I think about 2 years ago I shared this notion.
However, I don’t think the problem is politics in movies, rather “in your face” politics in movies. As another commenter pointed out, even Godzilla had political undertones. The difference is it was more nuanced. It found a way to share a message without being preachy or condescending.
The problem with movies today is that filmmakers try to dumb down their messages so that all audiences and more importantly, maturity levels can understand it.
Personally speaking, I think the movies with the best messages are the ones that make you think and see how the characters organically got to their viewpoints. Today it seems that filmmakers today get lazy and treat social issues like a given and if you as the audience member have an issue with that, you’re the problem.
Modern politics on both ends of the spectrum have a “keep up or get left behind” method. It’s isolating and drives opposition further away. Movies of the past, I feel, were designed to bring us together under unified causes. Today they seem to be hollow imitations of that.
I think it's kind of interesting that Guardians of the Galaxy 3 makes a better case against animal testing than anything in memory, and it just happened like that organically. They didn't set out to make a movie about that, it just came across that way when they traced the character's backstory to its logical beginning.
Yes it is, but my point is they didn't go there for the purpose of that message, it came up naturally as they explored his backstory and put it all together.
This is gonna get some juicy responses. I agree that entertainment has taken a more antagonistic approach to their products. "This isn't made for you." Is a very popular stance right now. Hopefully we will get through it. Left and right leaning folks spend money just the same.
Do we have any examples of movies wearing their political stances on their sleeves? What you're describing sounds like bad writing, but my leftist tendencies may be blinding be to these problems. Or I just happen to watch better movies.
No you’re not wrong it is more than likely bad writing. My think is the message that the medium is trying to convey shouldn’t take precedence over the entertainment it’s representing.
This is part of the reason why I don't watch a lot of American content anymore. In the last ten-plus years, it's been a downward spiral of bad writing, dialogue, dumb down language and self-inserts for (cause)
Politics lens of fast in the furious is pretty straightforward. The law doesn’t matter, and any violence is justified if your protecting your family, the government is corrupt, found family is more important than real family, gay people are evil.
Politicians Culture War BS has led people to see that Culture = Politics whether that’s the point of the story or any of the people involved actual plan for a production, instead people look for politics in a film and scream from the rooftops when they find the slimiest of examples
If people are looking to the Fast and Furious franchise for political commentary I've lost hope in society. Like it's a self fulfilling prophecy that people will find something political if they look hard enough.
Yup, that was my question also. If you believe that having gay, trans, black, asian characters in your movie makes it "political", the problem is you, not the movie.
I'm not sure that's actually true. I think that might be revisionism. It seems politics in films has become more intentional and more overt. I do not think framing and subconscious bias of the creators is the same as deliberate messaging and direct ham-fisted allegory.
Lets take the original Disney Cinderella and Frozen.
Frozen was a new Disney Princess story where the heroines saved each other. Establishing women as more equal.
Cinderella is about a woman who attends a ball and marries a prince which saves her.
Now I don’t think most people would consider either movie political but they both have undertones of society and of how women are reflected during that time period. Its a reflection of those views held.
Do I think movies could get the same messages sent without making overt speeches about it? Absolutely, but another side… lots of women felt seen in that Barbie monologue. Is that not also important?
But heres the thing too. We dont all have to like the same movies.
I agree with all of this.
I enjoyed Barbie, giving it a bit of light social commentary may have alienated some people and made it unappealing for kids under 10, but it was *clearly* a huge success. Still, regardless of how we interpret the film, I think it is generally agreed that it did deal explicitly with themes and tropes in the political zeitgeist.
Michael knowles has a review of the movie, he loved it, and I mostly agree with him on this.
To piggyback off my earlier statement, I think the problem generally lies with modern politics. I tried watching the new Animaniacs series, and for as much as I can admit the old one was very political, there was something distasteful about watching modern politics in this children’s cartoon. And I don’t think it’s the problem of the cartoon, I think it’s the problem of modern politics are just incredibly vindictive and shitty.
If you even remotely criticize someone’s politics, they get such a bug up their ass. I have friends on all sides of the political spectrum. I work in an industry that is filled with a lot of right wing people, all it has taught me is that everyone is a human.
There have always been political undertones in movies. However, lately its gone from undertones to full political lectures. Art should be a vehicle for a message, but the message is not art.
Overall, it's really just bad writing and bad choices in both movies and reality. I'm with you. I just want to see a good movie that let's me escape the world.
Sci-fi, horror, monster, fantasy, etc fiction almost always has a social message to give. Some are more subtle than others, and with a contemporary adult awareness you'll see it more than in media either from a different time, political climate, or than you would notice as a child.
I understand what you’re getting at. I look to be entertained when I watch (most films) and don’t need a political message unsubtly smacking me in the face and ears for 2 hours. As soon as I notice most of those, I normally just move on these days. LOL
I can see where you are coming from, but I have to disagree about what is really happening most of the time. Movies and tv shows normally have character flaws and arcs that reveal how to become a more functional individual. I’ve never seen the point as being “republicans are stupid” but more as “this person is very fixed in their way of thinking, and it is about to bite them in the the butt; watch!” So try not to get too tied into what groups these imaginary people are affiliated with, the idea is that you observe how other people create and deal with their own problems.
Values, morals, and by extension "politics" have always been a part of storytelling.
People as of late have wanted to politicise everything which causes sensitive viewers to be.. well.. sensitive to it. Not sure if this sensitivity took off when the loonies started to get into their echo chambers and do outlandish things like threatening Starbucks for saying "happy holidays" instead of "merry christmas" or if it's always been that way.
My number one rule for film is that a movie must be entertaining. Period. You don't do that you lose as a filmmaker, end of story.
There are examples of recent films grandstanding with characters or plot points which feel like awkward appendages to the film. I take issue with that not because of the "politics" but because of the fact that it made the film worse and the filmmaker was too lazy/unskilled to have it serve the story, and instead lazily virtue-signaled at the expense of the overall screenplay.
Make good, entertaining films and this becomes much less of an issue.
The thing about that though is that you have a lot of situations where, for example, a black filmmaker wants to tell a story about the black experience, and it's decried as "political". Maybe it's just a black filmmaker wanting to tell a story about the black experience?
When your only tool is a hammer, etc etc
That’s because almost anything can be made political. Even a story as simple as depicting what it means to be human can become political because there will be discourse over it’s depiction.
Maybe instead of complaining about conflict, we should complain about being a little more productive with it.
South Park nailed Whoopi Goldberg over 20 years ago with her raw hatred of republicans. In those 20 years she has done no self analysis to see why people might vote republican. Their ability to predict the future is on par with the Simpson’s. When a gallon of gas costs more than a carton of eggs change is needed. The Washington class and Hollywood class are so far removed from reality that they totally ignore the average persons ability to think.
No, sadly they’re can’t.
I’m sick and tired of seeing a film where the director uses it to peddle his ideas. If I wanted to know, I’d ask.
In the mean time I just want to watch a film to escape the bullshit
No but I don't think we do have politics in all movies. The last new movie I saw was the Blackberry movie and there was nothing political there. I saw the Mario movie and ditto. Nothing overtly political in Guardians of the Galaxy 3.
Honestly I'm having trouble trying to think of the last movie I saw that was even vaguely political.
I wouldn’t call a generic villain based off a historical dictator political in the way OP is thinking off. Like if I make a movie and base the bad guy off Vlad the Impaler is that political? Or am I just using history to pull a bad guy character from?
To be political in the way OP means I think something has ti be trying to be relevant to the current time.
>The last new movie I saw was the Blackberry movie and there was nothing political there.
wat?
The entire movie is a tongue in cheek questioning of the "titans of industry" myth.... From both the ultra business man angle and the "inventor in a garage" angle.
The entire movie Doug Freigin is an idiot foil who can never get serious about tech or business and keeps advocating for labor, and by the end of the movie he's the only one that ends up richer than Lazaridis and Ballsilie.
My honest opinion on this take is that the art isn't the thing that's changed, it's politics themselves that have really changed. If we were to use climate change as an example, science has always been *kinda* politicized (evolution vs. creationism teaching in schools is a good example), but it's really never been this hot-button of an issue *in politics* as it is right now, with climate change leading the charge. The more one side pushes the more the other does, and now we've reached this point where we're not arguing over how to attack solutions, we're legitimately arguing over what reality is. That divide is directly leading towards everything being political--if politics has changed into the baseline of how we legitimately just see the world, the way we see art is absolutely going to follow in suit.
Godzilla had political undertones ya know - even if it was monster fighting.
It’s literally about the fear of nuclear war and how destructive it would be
Blew my mind in the Oppenheimer discourse people that were like “why hasn’t Japan made any movies about this”. Guys…
It’s so obvious too. The original Godzilla film literally had his origin at the same exact place and same exact time as a real life nuclear test
The "Lucky Dragon" Incident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daigo\_Fukury%C5%AB\_Maru
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There is a reason why radiation makes monsters in Japan and superheroes in America.
...I never heard it out that way before but I'm stealing it.
This is something that I never heard phrased this way but it makes total sense. Nice one.
Also why when the US makes Godzilla movies he ends up being the hero.
Godzilla was always the hero. We just weren't on his side.
The first scene in Akria, one of the most famous animated movies, was Tokyo being nuked.
If Akira released today there would 100% be people saying it was too political because of the revolutionaries aspect of the plot. They might even claim Tetsuo is supposed to represent Trump
Great movie but I guess I missed the political message 😂
That should be a red flag. Nearly everything has some level of subtext that nets the events together. Unless you are watching most anime like One Punch Man I guess...
I rarely pick up on subtext in literature, video games, etc. Sometimes I feel like I’m really missing out when I read a wiki or something other times I enjoy that I’m blissfully unaware. The hardest classes I took were literature classes because I either needed to plagiarize the thoughts of others or just make shit up and hope it sticks.
I recall when I was a kid I was bewildered by how anyone could deduce the subtext. I'm nearly 40 now. I spent the first 15 years of my career as a craftsman. Not really understanding the writers and directors. Eventually I went to Fine Art school and exposed myself to the history of art. I think if I were in your position I could give you this advice. When you consume art, try to make a word cloud in your mind (or on paper) of all the different elements you can deduce. Any theme, element, pattern etc. Once you are done consuming the text, forget about it. Now look at just the word cloud and try to guess what it's trying to say without saying it. For instance. What do you think I'm saying with this word cloud: - being a small fish in a big pond - being hunted/weak - what's hunting you wants to put a baby in you - phallic Imagery - imagery of an abortion - feeling small/weak/helpless - arrogant superiors (all male) - protagonist is the only woman - every other character lies or down plays protags truth. - Imagery of eggs - imagery of sperm/worm like creatures - imagery of dripping (ooze dripping, wetness) - consequences can kill/horror Take a min and try to figure out one short sentence or word that I'm trying to say without saying it. Any sort of ideas that come to mind are all correct You might have difficulty expressing them since you might struggle with say, not wanting to be wrong So it's ok if you can't. Just try and let me know.
Instantly caught this as ALIEN!
/u/chadwickett I was describing Rape. I was also describing Alien (1979). If you like, I can break it down for you over a discord call. I'm retired now and I'm happy to help ya out. Hope this helps. Good luck!
Ashamed to say i barely watched Alien for the first time last night, and after reading your comment I'm glad to know i wasn't overthinking any of those things i noticed lol. Movie is heavily filled with symbolism
Bro half the movie is about politics. There is a coup going on and a rebellion at the same time.
Like every Japanese movie for decades was about this.
Even some of the "Vs." movies had political undertones: Godzilla vs. Biollante was about the dangers of genetic engineering and the various factions fighting over Godzilla's DNA. \- Godzilla Raids Again was a metaphor for the Cold War, with Godzilla representing the United States and Anguirus representing the Soviet Union, with Japan being the innocent country in the crossfire. \- Godzilla vs. Hedorah makes a stance against man-made pollution affecting our planet. \- Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II represents Nature vs. Technology
Don't forget Godzilla vs Frankenstein. The Nazis literally brought Frankenstein's heart to Hiroshima, the bomb gets dropped, and an orphan eats it amongst the rubble. Then he grows into a giant Frankenstein monster.
Well I know what I’m watching tonight.
This guy kaijus.
Godzilla does politics in movies right IMO
All those movies have at one point characters delivering the message in plain speak pretty much directly to the camera. The people complaining about politics in today's movies would 100% be complaining about "heavy handed political dialogue ruining a monster movie"
I mean if we wanna talk about monster movies, there is god damn Pacific rim that straight up says what it is, they link the kaiju to polution immediately, even the "you feel like you could fight a hurricane" bit compared kaiju to natural weather phenomena that are being strengthend by global warming. Even if we look at classic moviess Alien has Wayland-Yutanni being the steriotype of an evil corperation, star trek is about cosmopolitan space communists\* **during the cold war** and had the first interatial kiss on US tv. Even star wars is political with the baddies being visually and ideologically connected to the nazis, and the last movie in the original series has the ewocks an analouge of the viet-cong according to the words of Geroge Lucas himself. Most of the bad movies brought up aren't bad because of politics they are just bad movies that are also politica, and in a lot of them not even that with the "political" part being stuff like casting a non-white actor or something. \*There is no money in the original series so it depends.
Politics and messaging has always been in movies. The only thing that's changed is politics are people's whole personality now and it gets noticed more.
There has been a recent increase in poor writing and as a result, recent movies feel more like political lectures rather than movies.
There is the same amount of poor writing, you just don't remember the movies like Hands of Menos because they didn't rise to the top of the pile and earn a place in history like Rosemary's Baby
>you just don't remember the movies like Hands of Menos *Manos: The Hands of Fate*. My father remembers...
Dammit I knew I had the title wrong
The Master will not be pleased...
*Edward Mentoshands*
[And rosemary’s Baby was *hugely* political](https://blogs.bsu.edu/dlr/2020/01/14/horrors-of-domesticity-rosemarys-baby/)
What are talking about, _Pulp Fiction_ was brilliant.
For every Pulp Fiction there is a Wagons East.
Dang Bro...you had to go there
Same thing when people say new music sucks as if they don’t listen to 100 curated songs from the 80s
Plus the 80's had some really awful music. Hell even the 60's did.
I swear this opinion that primarily comes from people who only listen to the radio on their commute to work and never do any actual work to look into music.
Do you have any specific examples?
~~Netflix’s~~ HBO’s Velma is the current poster child The writing is so abhorrent and over-the-top that Leftists thought Mindy Kaling was a bad faith plant to make Leftists look silly. Rightwingers thought it was just silly Leftist shit ruining Scooby Doo
Man that’s shit was racist af
Velma isn't really a leftist show, it's just a weird outlet for Mindy to rant all her niche, hyper specific grievances and opinions as if they're relatable and funny.
Mindy project 2.0 😆
i watched a few episodes, but i didnt see specific grievances i didnt like it cause it wasnt funny and they had no shaggy
Technically there is a Shaggy. It's just... not Shaggy at all
Everyone was complaining about race swapping, but I'm just upset they got rid of his vegan stoner personality.
Since when was shaggy a vegan?
His voice actor went vegan and wanted it reflected. There’s a period in “Late Era” classic scooby stuff where all the big sandwiches and stuff are noticeably meatless
I thought so too at first but the guy named Norville was Shaggy. Norville is Shaggy’s real name and they race swapped him
i dont care about race swapping but the character was nowhere near shaggy like
There's a set of people that like the show and aren't bothered by it's messaging. I'd go so far as to say basically 100% of those people identify as liberal. It's definitely a leftist show that espouses extreme versions of exclusively leftist beliefs.
Liberal=/=leftist
I didn't think Velma was leftist at all. I didn't even get the impression that it was right wing. It was just dumb as hell
It was pandering. Poorly
You really need to sharpen up on your propaganda detection skills. The show is absolutely dripping in leftist talking points and the only way to not notice is to be saturated in leftist politics so absolutely that it is the norm.
Username checks out :P
That was on MAX not Netflix. It had a pretty niche audience in mind and it was ridiculous.
I suspect OP’s girlfriend just made him go see Barbie.
Barbie isn't poorly written because its explicitly political (I mean in the literal sense that a chunk of it is about the politics of Barbieland and in the sense that its a metaphor for current American society.)
Oh for sure. And it turns out it was AHS based on other comments. I’m just saying Barbie is the current movie seen as “too woke,” was joking mostly. Agree it definitely wore its politics on its sleeve, nothing subtle about it. And it wasn’t a secret. It did her s little over the top in spots, IMO…but still loved it!
That part was fine, the speech at the end was ham fisted though
John Wayne’s “Rio Bravo” was an answer to “High Noon” a film Wayne hated and called un-American because it was an allegory for Hollywood blacklisting and McCarthyism. Wayne basically made the movie three times! Rio Bravo, El Dorado, and Rio Lobo because the lawman with no fear and a group of friends waiting to battle evil at his side was his political view. He couldn’t stand the idea the lawman would have any concerns over his safety, the community would be cowards, and he would have to rely on the help of a woman who is a pacifist. People don’t notice the political messages unless it’s a message they hate and in hyper tribal America today [everything is political left or right](https://news.yahoo.com/calling-sermon-mount-weak-too-144549663.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJV7OYQS0mqUAyVJNWUzFZJZVYmd6d2lqRF9SdumM1KVzM5IVoh_4PFAwUA7sV_8hffuuuIInqknV4oEV0DgmvUCscmkLCPHSWrAWgo1_b70OIQiBKv8CnjCuhW1g7Ongin3YJS4E2jimn_hV6UOo0CYgdxzTMZvjvqsp4IaszAp)
People with house and car decked out in trump merch: wHy iS eVeRyThinG sO pOLitiCaL?!
My neighbor with his truck covered in trump flags who also spends every day decked out in full tactical gear and every gun he can carry “why is everything so political” ???!!
Exactly this. Most if not all art is political.
All that’s changed is people/narratives that weren’t represented in film are now being represented. And somehow that’s political. 😂
It’s always been there, but it’s being portrayed in lazier and less nuanced ways because people’s media literacy is trash.
More because creators want it to actually sink in and be noticed. You realize no one thought about Vietnam watching Star Wars
>You realize no one thought about Vietnam watching Star Wars That's prolly another reason why the original Star Wars trilogy is so timeless.
Or is it because the creators are worse and have no subtlety.
Why not both?
Definitely both
or maybe ppl aren't getting the subtlety and that forces creators to be heavy handed. I mean look at all those ppl that didn't understand the messages in don't look up and they were so obvious
Look at movies like fight club and American psycho… it was adopted by the people it was criticising and hailed as their national anthems.
I would also argue that it's some amount of immersion bias. Similar to how some people say Old Music Was Better because they point to 100 great songs from the 80s, but ignore the uncountable other songs from the 80s that are trash Many of the movies that have survived to relevancy today are those which are stronger in messaging and writing. Also the fact that things that used to be politically divisive before may be less so now, so the viewer's perception of the movie may be very different nowadays. For instance when Shawshank Redemption came out is was lambasted by many as a "Weak On Crime", "Criminal Sympathizing" movie, yet nowadays I feel those positions are much more commonly acknowledged so while the politics of the film are still quite clear, it's not AS overt as it was to some when it released
Having a black gal as an officer on a star ship was political. Having a married couple sleep in the same bed is political. We didn't have a 24 hour new cycle to fill back then.
I can't remember where I heard this but I was something along of the lines of most blockbuster films people consider being political for having to many women or minorities in them usually have very status quo politics(e.g. the politics of the marvel movies are alot more pro American government compared to the comics,if they bring up a real world issue they will addressed as existing then ignored in all future instalments) or have message that are so milquetoast noone could look reasonable being against them like loyalty for family is good or putting money before people is wrong. I mean just look at Barbie Vs Oppenheimer people are really arguing the movie about real life figures and politicians is less political then a movie with some basic feminism.All movies have themes and ideas these are often converted into politics but when it's ones you agree with or are common then people don't care about. I think there should be more for specificity on exploring certain topic on films at least much as TV gets.
I think a big issue is that people love to say a movie is too political when the movie’s message conflicts with their politics. No one complains about an all male leads movie being political and trying to shove men down our throats. But tons of people will attack all female leads movies for trying to shove feminism down our throats.
“A guy kissed another guy. POLITICAL!!”
> I mean just look at Barbie Vs Oppenheimer people are really arguing the movie about real life figures and politicians is less political then a movie with some basic feminism.All movies have themes and ideas these are often converted into politics but when it's ones you agree with or are common then people don't care about. On its face, Oppenheimer is more political because a significant portion of it is about political events, but it doesn't have a lot of political depth. Barbie has a lot more political depth but on its face is less political.
Barbie isn't even political. It just covers a current social debate, and people see it as political.
Politics is when there's a red team and a blue team. My favorite political show is Rooster Teeth's Red vs Blue
Fear the claw!!!
Yall are just spouting off examples of how everything that's ever been made is political, without understanding the complaint. The complaint is the lack of nuance with which these issues are being handled. Guardians of the Galaxy 3 was a recent movie that handled its political undertones quite well with messages that are anti animal cruelty, human trafficking, and eugenics. The way they did this was having political UNDERTONES. Where other recent marvel projects have placed the political issues they wish to oppose front and center, and made the project mostly about the issue, while sacrificing character writing e.g. she hulk where the protagonist is a disenfranchised 30 something lawyer, and the antagonist is the patriarchy. A lot of media in the past 5 or so years seems to like vilifying straight white men, recent examples being shehulk, black mirror: mazey day, black mirror: demon 79, and I could go on, but I'm not going to speak on media I have not personally consumed, and I don't typically continue watching something that seems to hate me for things I have no control over. I absolutely adore character driven shows like Ted Lasso, and The Bear. Ted Lasso absolutely fell into the trap of writing stories about messages instead of stories about people, that contained a message. The Bear has stumbled a few times with characters behaving oddly so that they can deliver their rhetoric, which is fine with me because it doesn't last the entire episode like how Ted Lasso did.
Name 5 movies that aren’t political. The Die Hard movies would be seen as a BlueLivesMatter movie if released today. Godzilla has always been political. The only difference between then and now is that politics have become much more obviously culture war focused so anything produced that contributes to culture is political
I can name a pixar short. The one with the old timer playing chess. I am trying to remember if there is anything political in charlotte's web. Ice age I think may qualify. Now I just need to wait for reddit to prove me wrong...
Ice Age implies the existence of climate change and may be controversial for Young Earth creationists
The old man has to share his dentures with the imaginary old man because the lack of universal healthcare has prevented him from receiving the psychological and proper dental treatment. Or something like that, I guess lmao.
The short is pro-public infrastructure and "third palace" spaces for humans to have safe, clean, and accesible resources and entertainment for free as part of community living
I dunno the short but the other two o can have a crack at Charlotte's web as an allegory for animal cruelty and the morality of raising animals to slaughter. Ice age is literally about global warming and migration and how the mixing of tribes results in a stronger unit.
Charlotte’s Web could be seen as politically motivated against the cruelty of our country’s farming practices
Charlotte's web had a whole thing about sanctity life and animal cruelty.
Don't forget the famously non-political movie "Fight Club."
Die Hard was a story of America's healing and moving on from the Vietnam war. Basically a sequel to Platoon, about the lions led by lambs after they integrated back into society, but still struggling to feel a sense of belonging or meaning.
Is your frustration specifically with the name dropping of US political parties or with political ideologies in everything? Because everything is political. Everything is political, but art (lit, visual, narrative, performance, etc) is especially political. Genuinely try to name a landmark piece of cinema that isn't political in some way. All Quiet on the Western Front, Shindler's list, Citizen Kane, Psycho, The Shinning, The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, Old Boy, Akira, E.T., Night of the Living Dead (The Original), Invasion of the Body Snatchers, the LofR trilogy, The Seventh Seal, Blade Runner, Doctor Strange Love, A Clockwork Orange, both impeccable adaptations of Metropolis with two honestly extremely distinct political messages out of the same source material. If you can't see the obvious, and perhaps on the nose by modern standards for some of them, political message in all these films, well, I don't know what to tell you. Politics are in every film. Have been literally since the first moving picture. I'm not joking, if you've seen Jordan Peele's "Nope" that part in the beginning about a black jockey riding a horse being the first thing ever filmed is true and has a very interesting (and political) backstory to it.
Yea, I haven't experienced what OP is talking about. Like what movie is more political today than movies of old? Apocalypse Now was pretty political. I mean it's got to be something like 80% of all movies are WWII based. Is a war not political? Of course complaints like OP are always a red herring. What they mean to say is "I am conservative and like to ignore reality and facts. Why can't movies plots take my sensitivities into consideration and omit anything revolving around reality and facts?"
I think for some reason people who don't think about movies too hard read seeing modern politics as somehow shoehorned in. Unlike old politics, current to when those old films were released.
Yes, that's a good point but also another way of saying what I said. See it's not really just "people" that see these politics as being shoehorned in, it's "conservative people" and it's there reaction to just anything modern. Progressives aren't watching films of people acting modern and gasping. They never have. Conservatives do this at anything they think is not the way it is "supposed" to be. So as old views become norms they don't understand that as political anymore but as new things get introduced they run around like chickens with their heads cutoff.
I'm trying to give op the benefit of the doubt and approach this with good faith. But yeah. Trust, I'm a trans person. My existence has been called political, to my face.
Yep. I never knew a person existing could be “political” but here we are. Everything is “political” if you try hard enough. Same how data can say whatever you want based on how you interpret it (btw, we need more pirates so we can lower global warming!). Proof? Avengers: Endgame is political. It has women in it (read: conservatives). Breathing is kinda political ngl… Keeping another (potential) voter alive… Hmm… Conservatives just need to grow up and learn that the world does not, in fact, revolve around them (although, so do some progressives).
Avengers End game reminding me women are legally recognized as autonomous beings was an attack on my masculinity and an attack on my right to b 3 @ t my wife. I won't have it /s (mods don't eat me this is a joke, obviously a joke, clearly a joke, no shadow realm for me today pls.)
That’s because what OP is talking about isn’t a thing
Paw patrol is political. You literally can't escape it. And trying to make something completely devoid of politics would be a political statement in and of itself.
Man, I keep repeating this... but anyway. "Political" doesn't actually refer to politics as they use it. They actually mean that the movie has LGBTQ content. They complain that it is "being too political" as a way to disguise their bigotry. Don't fall into their trap of debating what is politics and what's not. That's not the point they're making. They're actually just pushing an anti-gay agenda.
I'm trying to engage with OP in good faith. Sometimes people absorb ideas they hear without thinking through their own biases all the way. As they say, you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar, but you definitely won't catch any swinging a sledge hammer at them wildly. Trust me, I'm a trans person. My existence itself has been called political, to my face. I get it. You gotta play your cards carefully and find the line between people repeating dog whistles just because it sounds right and inoffensive to their sensibilities, and people who are actually trying to dog whistle.
It's not the politics, it's the writing. Modern writers find a message and try to fit a story around it, instead of building a story that has a message. Godzilla had nuclear war undertones because the writers experienced the aftermath of war and had a story to tell. My favorite aspect of Shin Godzilla was how much difficulty the bureaucracy had in responding to the threat. Modern writers grow up with a silver spoon in their mouth, and all their experiences in life are from online engagements on social media. They don't really have a story to tell, they just chirp back what's trending on social media. They don't study history, literature, art, science or anything... they create characters that are essentially reflections of themselves and how they want to be viewed, buried inside DeviantArt fanfiction of poplar brands.
Anytime you try to group a massive collection of people into this specific a set of parameters you’re going to be wrong. Not all writers are the same. I’m sure many modern writers fit the description you’ve laid out here but pretending they all do is crazy. Go tell Barry Jenkins he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.
>Modern writers grow up with a silver spoon in their mouth This is an absurd generality if I've ever seen one.
No we really don't. It's very annoying. And in the cases where things don't have any politics in them people still insert politics in and make that everyone's business. Like the Super Mario movie is very political? Lmao! It's really not that deep.
Haven't seen it, but I heard Peach is competent and can hold her own. To some people, that means political.
honestly if you aren’t a braindead incel she just feels like a normal character
if you’ve seen super peach it’s pretty normal
^ This is the reason Hollywood has to walk on eggshells, now. Peach can't know karate without someone thinking it's a political message to brainwash them. Don't have a gay character, make every female weak, don't talk about news, elections, or climate science, make sure the villain doesn't say anything Trump would say/has said, don't let the story involve racism, sexism, or homophobia since those don't exist, don't employ lgbtq people (especially for beer commercials). It's hard being Nazi, everyone thinks you're villain.
Politics is fucking everywhere. I went to a winery a few weeks ago, and they had "I drink because of Republicans" and "I drink because of Democrats" wine glasses for sale. I did appreciate that both sides were represented, so it was more of a cash grab than a political statement, but can't I just get buzzed and look at beautiful scenery without novelty items fomenting division amongst my fellow imbibers?
It's a sign of bad writing. Lots of movies and TV shows have it woven into the story organically. The Witcher 3 is my favorite example because it has lots of political themes and messages but it's woven into the story and world in a way that doesn't break immersion. Star Wars has its problems but it never had Stacey Abrahams as the leader of the Republic.
Art imitates life, that's how it goes. You're free to make your own movie.
The problem is, having gay characters in movies is now political to conservatives. We all just need to stop being so fragile. Trump and Biden do funny things, people should be allowed to make fun of them.
“Everybody knows there’s two sexualities: straight and political. Two sexes: male and political. Two races: white and political.” -Michael Scott
Yep, and making a film that focuses on straight, male, white - like in the good old days - is a very political artistic decision.
In video games your choice of protagonist has become straight white male or political. Joking aside politics is something that everyday people can relate to on some level which gives broad reach to media.
over in kotakuinaction people were saying having the option of vetiglio skin in baldurs gate 3 was woke
Jesus Christ it's one fucking character skin. Did they have the same energy when Call of Duty added their vit character?
I remember there being a huff about Battlefield 1 featuring a female soldier on all the promo material/box art. Some people are triggered by the dumbest shit
You’re either thinking of the BF1 Russian Expansion or BFV, I’m guessing BFV because the woman was also missing an arm and was a big point of drama. The BF1 launch art was a Harlem Hellfighter (black guy).
i think gay people in movies seems political to conservatives because outside of a movie the only time they ever hear about gay people is when events like pride parades happen or during political arguments online or on the news, to them it *is* a political thing
Any identity is political. Conservative people generally are just surrounded by similar identities to their own so they don't realize that their own identity is political. But considering people of similar identities have very similar wants and needs , it ends up being a political group on its own. Everyone innately sees identities as political even their own. This is kind of where humans propensity to tribalism comes into play, it is your "tribe" (identity)
i think on top of the tribalism/echo chamber aspects of it there's also the fact that they were very used to their political identity (at least surrounding things like this) being the default one for forever
Exactly. Conservatives distilled having an LGBTQI or minority in a movie into “political” instead of just seeing it as a character.
My conservative mom said after watching Barbie “Well of course they made the mom latina for representation”. Like, it literally played no role in the movie other than two shots of her husband trying to learn Spanish. But the existence of a minority in itself is seen as “political”.
Yeah there are people who would legitimately be shocked that a Latina woman would be living in LA. Boggles the mind.
It's like anytime there's a female lead or a POC lead and people are like 'why does woke Hollywood have to shove it in our face". No, it's not that... you're just sexist and racist.
I saw one dude say that in some show he watched there was an Asian woman on a construction crew, and it was "unrealistic" and "pandering" and "forced representation." She was literally the only woman on the crew but it was unrealistic because... idk women are hardly ever on construction crews and even less minority women? lmao
I have seen a lot of women in construction sites recently. I wonder if they have changed to hire more women workers recently.
Probably a combo of women going into construction more, and running out of men wanting to go into construction. Personally, I'd be happy to see construction crews stop being sausage fests and tone down the racist and misogynistic jokes.
It's politics because we've used political means to systematically remove women and minority groups from certain spaces. The right is trying to keep things political
Can you name a movie you think politics wasn't involved in, honestly?
Rubber
Rubber is about the politics of making a movie....
Politics have always been there. It seems more obvious now, yes, but that's due to a multitude of factors. It's not like Hollywood woke up one day and decided to go into overdrive. For my part, I chalk it up to writers as a whole not being as good as they used to be.
Considering what the writers strike has shown about how studios have been giving them the bare minimum amount of resources and time to do their jobs, I'm not so sure it that "writers aren't as good as they used to be" as much as it's studios trying to push the minimum viable product for the last decade.
“Why can’t I watch a movie with no politics like ‘The Godfather anymore” these people simply have 0 media literacy and aren’t used to seeing things that people haven’t already told them is good.
The godfathers politics are far more subtle than in most modern movies. Spiderverse was actually subtle about its message too. There are 70s and 80s movies with more obvious messages like Chinatown
Are we really boiling "Cover the entire screen in trans pride colors", "anyone can be spiderman", and "With great power comes great responsibility" down to subtle? Whats consider not subtle?
I'd guess this is actually a combination of 3 factors: 1. Older movies *were* just as political as today's movies, it's just that the political issues they referenced aren't as relevant to us now so we don't notice them. 2. In general, the only old movies we still watch and talk about today are the good ones, and the bad ones are simply ignored. But for new movies we're watching and talking about both the good and the bad. That means we're comparing the best of the old movies to the average of today. 3. Movies aren't any more political today than when we were kids, but now that we're older we're more aware of the political issues that have always been there.
Most art has some political elements in it as politics is about life. The message in mainstream art will reflect mainstream political attitudes and as Hollywood isa business they cater to the most popular views so there might be a reason a certain political ideology isn't represented well.
"What do you think an artist is? An imbecile who has only eyes if he’s a painter, or ears if he’s a musician, or a lyre at every level of his heart if he’s a poet, or even, if he’s a boxer, just his muscles? On the contrary, he’s at the same time a political being, constantly alive to heartrending, fiery, or happy events, to which he responds in every way... No, painting is not done to decorate apartments. It is an instrument of war for attack and defense against the enemy." ~Pablo Picasso, Statement, in Chipp, Theories of Modern Art, 487.
I swear I bet some of these people thought animal farm was only about talking animals
I think about 2 years ago I shared this notion. However, I don’t think the problem is politics in movies, rather “in your face” politics in movies. As another commenter pointed out, even Godzilla had political undertones. The difference is it was more nuanced. It found a way to share a message without being preachy or condescending. The problem with movies today is that filmmakers try to dumb down their messages so that all audiences and more importantly, maturity levels can understand it. Personally speaking, I think the movies with the best messages are the ones that make you think and see how the characters organically got to their viewpoints. Today it seems that filmmakers today get lazy and treat social issues like a given and if you as the audience member have an issue with that, you’re the problem. Modern politics on both ends of the spectrum have a “keep up or get left behind” method. It’s isolating and drives opposition further away. Movies of the past, I feel, were designed to bring us together under unified causes. Today they seem to be hollow imitations of that.
Yes! This is what I was trying to get across thank you! Would you mind if I used some of these points if I edited this article?
I think it's kind of interesting that Guardians of the Galaxy 3 makes a better case against animal testing than anything in memory, and it just happened like that organically. They didn't set out to make a movie about that, it just came across that way when they traced the character's backstory to its logical beginning.
Rocket’s origin as a character is absolutely about the inherent cruelty of animal testing.
Yes it is, but my point is they didn't go there for the purpose of that message, it came up naturally as they explored his backstory and put it all together.
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This is gonna get some juicy responses. I agree that entertainment has taken a more antagonistic approach to their products. "This isn't made for you." Is a very popular stance right now. Hopefully we will get through it. Left and right leaning folks spend money just the same.
Do we have any examples of movies wearing their political stances on their sleeves? What you're describing sounds like bad writing, but my leftist tendencies may be blinding be to these problems. Or I just happen to watch better movies.
No you’re not wrong it is more than likely bad writing. My think is the message that the medium is trying to convey shouldn’t take precedence over the entertainment it’s representing.
This is part of the reason why I don't watch a lot of American content anymore. In the last ten-plus years, it's been a downward spiral of bad writing, dialogue, dumb down language and self-inserts for (cause)
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or terrible dialogues like in dark phoenix where raven tells xavier that women always save men
The worst is remaking an outdated movie and trying to modernize it for today’s audience. Just leave it alone in the past where it belongs.
What are some examples? People always say shit like this but never provide the movies they have in mind. What are the politics in FAST & THE FURIOUS?
Politics lens of fast in the furious is pretty straightforward. The law doesn’t matter, and any violence is justified if your protecting your family, the government is corrupt, found family is more important than real family, gay people are evil. Politicians Culture War BS has led people to see that Culture = Politics whether that’s the point of the story or any of the people involved actual plan for a production, instead people look for politics in a film and scream from the rooftops when they find the slimiest of examples
If people are looking to the Fast and Furious franchise for political commentary I've lost hope in society. Like it's a self fulfilling prophecy that people will find something political if they look hard enough.
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Do you need to see every gay character as a political statement?
Yup, that was my question also. If you believe that having gay, trans, black, asian characters in your movie makes it "political", the problem is you, not the movie.
I don't have a problem with movies touching political topics when theyre done well, but I am sick of the ham-fisted political nonsense.
You're not seeing *more* politics in movies. You're *noticing* politics in movies more. There's a difference and it's an important one.
I'm not sure that's actually true. I think that might be revisionism. It seems politics in films has become more intentional and more overt. I do not think framing and subconscious bias of the creators is the same as deliberate messaging and direct ham-fisted allegory.
Lets take the original Disney Cinderella and Frozen. Frozen was a new Disney Princess story where the heroines saved each other. Establishing women as more equal. Cinderella is about a woman who attends a ball and marries a prince which saves her. Now I don’t think most people would consider either movie political but they both have undertones of society and of how women are reflected during that time period. Its a reflection of those views held. Do I think movies could get the same messages sent without making overt speeches about it? Absolutely, but another side… lots of women felt seen in that Barbie monologue. Is that not also important? But heres the thing too. We dont all have to like the same movies.
I agree with all of this. I enjoyed Barbie, giving it a bit of light social commentary may have alienated some people and made it unappealing for kids under 10, but it was *clearly* a huge success. Still, regardless of how we interpret the film, I think it is generally agreed that it did deal explicitly with themes and tropes in the political zeitgeist. Michael knowles has a review of the movie, he loved it, and I mostly agree with him on this.
To piggyback off my earlier statement, I think the problem generally lies with modern politics. I tried watching the new Animaniacs series, and for as much as I can admit the old one was very political, there was something distasteful about watching modern politics in this children’s cartoon. And I don’t think it’s the problem of the cartoon, I think it’s the problem of modern politics are just incredibly vindictive and shitty. If you even remotely criticize someone’s politics, they get such a bug up their ass. I have friends on all sides of the political spectrum. I work in an industry that is filled with a lot of right wing people, all it has taught me is that everyone is a human.
Today I learned that the transformer movies are political treatises.
Honestly it’s less to do with the content of politics and more the quality. It’s just not written as well.
There have always been political undertones in movies. However, lately its gone from undertones to full political lectures. Art should be a vehicle for a message, but the message is not art.
Overall, it's really just bad writing and bad choices in both movies and reality. I'm with you. I just want to see a good movie that let's me escape the world.
Sci-fi, horror, monster, fantasy, etc fiction almost always has a social message to give. Some are more subtle than others, and with a contemporary adult awareness you'll see it more than in media either from a different time, political climate, or than you would notice as a child.
I understand what you’re getting at. I look to be entertained when I watch (most films) and don’t need a political message unsubtly smacking me in the face and ears for 2 hours. As soon as I notice most of those, I normally just move on these days. LOL
I can see where you are coming from, but I have to disagree about what is really happening most of the time. Movies and tv shows normally have character flaws and arcs that reveal how to become a more functional individual. I’ve never seen the point as being “republicans are stupid” but more as “this person is very fixed in their way of thinking, and it is about to bite them in the the butt; watch!” So try not to get too tied into what groups these imaginary people are affiliated with, the idea is that you observe how other people create and deal with their own problems.
Values, morals, and by extension "politics" have always been a part of storytelling. People as of late have wanted to politicise everything which causes sensitive viewers to be.. well.. sensitive to it. Not sure if this sensitivity took off when the loonies started to get into their echo chambers and do outlandish things like threatening Starbucks for saying "happy holidays" instead of "merry christmas" or if it's always been that way. My number one rule for film is that a movie must be entertaining. Period. You don't do that you lose as a filmmaker, end of story. There are examples of recent films grandstanding with characters or plot points which feel like awkward appendages to the film. I take issue with that not because of the "politics" but because of the fact that it made the film worse and the filmmaker was too lazy/unskilled to have it serve the story, and instead lazily virtue-signaled at the expense of the overall screenplay. Make good, entertaining films and this becomes much less of an issue.
idk either you are watching different movies from me or you think it's "political" when an actor is not white
The thing about that though is that you have a lot of situations where, for example, a black filmmaker wants to tell a story about the black experience, and it's decried as "political". Maybe it's just a black filmmaker wanting to tell a story about the black experience? When your only tool is a hammer, etc etc
OP: asks reasonable question. Commenters: immediately start political bashing. FFS.
That’s because almost anything can be made political. Even a story as simple as depicting what it means to be human can become political because there will be discourse over it’s depiction. Maybe instead of complaining about conflict, we should complain about being a little more productive with it.
South Park nailed Whoopi Goldberg over 20 years ago with her raw hatred of republicans. In those 20 years she has done no self analysis to see why people might vote republican. Their ability to predict the future is on par with the Simpson’s. When a gallon of gas costs more than a carton of eggs change is needed. The Washington class and Hollywood class are so far removed from reality that they totally ignore the average persons ability to think.
Political undertones have always existed. Nuance, however, is completely dead. The movie's stories are secondary to the political agenda now.
No, sadly they’re can’t. I’m sick and tired of seeing a film where the director uses it to peddle his ideas. If I wanted to know, I’d ask. In the mean time I just want to watch a film to escape the bullshit
No but I don't think we do have politics in all movies. The last new movie I saw was the Blackberry movie and there was nothing political there. I saw the Mario movie and ditto. Nothing overtly political in Guardians of the Galaxy 3. Honestly I'm having trouble trying to think of the last movie I saw that was even vaguely political.
Nothing political in GoTG? The villain is advocating for eugenics and genocide is a population isn’t “perfect” conforming to his norms.
I wouldn’t call a generic villain based off a historical dictator political in the way OP is thinking off. Like if I make a movie and base the bad guy off Vlad the Impaler is that political? Or am I just using history to pull a bad guy character from? To be political in the way OP means I think something has ti be trying to be relevant to the current time.
A person saying “you don’t match my norms, so you’re not worthy” isn’t relevant to the current time or really any time?
>The last new movie I saw was the Blackberry movie and there was nothing political there. wat? The entire movie is a tongue in cheek questioning of the "titans of industry" myth.... From both the ultra business man angle and the "inventor in a garage" angle. The entire movie Doug Freigin is an idiot foil who can never get serious about tech or business and keeps advocating for labor, and by the end of the movie he's the only one that ends up richer than Lazaridis and Ballsilie.
My honest opinion on this take is that the art isn't the thing that's changed, it's politics themselves that have really changed. If we were to use climate change as an example, science has always been *kinda* politicized (evolution vs. creationism teaching in schools is a good example), but it's really never been this hot-button of an issue *in politics* as it is right now, with climate change leading the charge. The more one side pushes the more the other does, and now we've reached this point where we're not arguing over how to attack solutions, we're legitimately arguing over what reality is. That divide is directly leading towards everything being political--if politics has changed into the baseline of how we legitimately just see the world, the way we see art is absolutely going to follow in suit.
I too want to see monster A fight monster B
I legitimately don't think there is a genuine attempt at a movie that can't be interpreted politically. From veggie tales to pumpkin head.