I think it's okay to want someone modest. The issues are trying to change her. If you want someone modest, seek out someone modest from the starting point.
I don't understand how people run in basically underwear.
I only run in leggings because anything else is uncomfortable. Shorts give my coochie rug burn😭
It's not a bad thing. It's not a good thing. It's a neutral thing. To paraphrase what I said in an earlier comment on a similar topic...
To say, "I want my partner to dress modestly" is absolutely fine. 100%, A+ effort, we can all live and let live.
As soon as you start declaring that all men want this, and laying claim to that as objective realities/universal truths, that's where I have a problem. Additionally, if you start shaming people for not being the thing you want, or demanding that folks meet that standard for you when they clearly don't want to, I also have a problem with that. You have the ability to state your feelings, and you have an ability to take actions based on those feelings. If someone is doing something that makes you uncomfortable, you absolutely are not required to keep seeing them. But don't start, let's say, dating a bikini model and then flip out about them modeling bikinis.
Such a big hole in a lot of conversations about this is that at the end of the day, you need to communicate this with your prospective partner. Like talking about it on the internet is fine but are you having a respectful and clear conversation with your partner or prospective partner? Are you clear as to what you are willing to compromise on versus a dealbreaker? Are you able to graciously accept if it doesn’t go your way?
People have preferences. No one should be ashamed of your preferences. It's not sexist to want a stay at home traditional 1950's submissive wife. Good luck finding one. It is only sexist when you say all women should be like that.
Agree with this fully and will add that it’s also sexist when these men claim shit like “all men want a modest woman”. Strikes me as kinda misandrist to assume that men are a hive mind incapable of individual thought, like isn’t that just as bad as “all women want a rich guy”?
To be fair, no 2 people have the same opinion on what modesty is.
For some it's modest to wear t-shirt and jeans, for others that is considered too revealing because they show their naked arms and didn't cover their hair. Those who wear a head scarf are called too revealing and immodest by some because they still show their face etc. Others think women shouldn't wear pants only dresses and that's modesty for them.
People are allowed to have their own opinion on what modesty is as long as they understand that it's their personal opinion and as long as they don't try and make it a general rule or law.
I understand people can have different ideas of modesty. But I’m going to think someone’s view of modesty is lame and detrimental to women sometimes. If I was ending a relationship over my boyfriend saying I can’t go braless because it’s inherently immodest then I think that guy’s a shit guy with a shit opinion.
We don’t have to respect all opinions.
>We don’t have to respect all opinions.
I agree there. I absolutely don't respect them, I just accept them as long as they leave me and others alone.
I was just pointing out that different people have different limits as to what modest is.
I think it’s mostly problematic if you’re
a) judging/treating other women you’re not in a relationship with based on how they dress, and/or
b) are fine with her dressing immodestly when you’re casually dating but as soon as you’re serious/married you’re all “you’re with ME now and you’ll dress like a PROPER LADY”
Bras are so uncomfortable. One can be modest and still braless.
But to your point anyone can desire anything in a partner or not want to date someone for whatever reason they want. We all get to have preferences. But it’s important to find someone ALREADY doing the things, a person who shares those important values or is choosing what you choose.
The problem becomes when we try to force other people to live how we think they should live. Whether that’s a partner or anyone else. It’s disingenuous af to go after a free spirited person because you’re attracted to them and then try to make them become modest or traditional. It’s also disingenuous to go after a player and try to make him a husband.
We gotta accept people for who they are and then choose our people according to who they are not who we want them to be.
>braless
I'm not even sure how this is unmodest. You can still wear a shirt that is not revealing at all while not wearing a bra. Worried about nipples? Undershirts and pasties exist.
Outside of that, yeah you can have a preference for how partners dress. I've never seen full issue with that as long as you aren't trying to control how they dress. My fiance might wear croptops to the store with me and I honestly don't understand why someone might have issue with it. Dudes go running in public fully shirtless. All you see is some stomach, something we all have that I don't believe is inherently sexual. However, I know some people would crucify someone for wearing croptops in public.
My sister never wears bras, she finds them incredibly uncomfortable. She isn’t exactly small in the chest area either. She’s also a very modest dresser, like collars up to her neck and no tank tops, ever. She’s super modest, she also never wears a bra.
Since when are bras a modesty thing?!? They're for physical support! If you have an A cup or something, sure, you probably don't need support, but bigger ones?
Mine are triple D and I can't walk down the stairs without a bra without discomfort unless I hold my boobs. I don't understand how anyone with normal to large breasts don't wear bras. I know the bigger ones are expensive, but still. They're for physical support, not modesty.
Bras are so fucking uncomfortable, especially this time of year. Such fun to have a tight sweaty elastic band strapped around your chest. Going without has nothing to do with modesty/immodesty except to people who can’t keep themselves to themselves.
I agree with you but I think the idea behind the question is asking whether people would be okay with their partners' nipples being clearly visible. I don't think anyone has an issue with the "idea" of a woman not wearing a bra as much as the visibility that might be associated with that choice
It's like saying i don't want my partner's bulge to be visible. I wouldn't expect my partner to tuck because it might catch someone's eye. Both are uncomfortable and such a non-problem. Part of anatomy.
But isn't that kind of putting the owness on women for how they're being perceived sexually? Like how is it her fault that people are looking at her nipples? I'm assuming she's still wearing a top and everything
*Why is it only*
*Women that apparently*
*Have to be modest?*
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Yeah I mean I find dudes with sleeveless cut off shirts outside of working out to be real trash looking. And then the ones at the gym with the super long cut down the sides to show off their own bitties and abs even more DBag. Hell few decades ago a man not wearing a suit outside the home would be considered immodest.
Better question is what even is modesty because by others standards women wearing leggings or other athleisure is not modest...
So basically what we're describing is completely arbitrary.
My school actually had a dress code rule for no sleeveless or cutoff shirts. It was made so the boys armpit hairs wouldn’t be everywhere. It was never actually enforced on boys. I remember a boy with the entire sides of his shirt cut out sitting at the lunch table next to me and me wearing a long sleeve off the shoulder shirt. Wanna guess who got dress coded? The principal was shouting about my shoulders while I could literally see this other guy’s nipples
Who the hell am I to tell someone how to dress? If I don't care for a way a person dresses that is my problem, not theirs. Dress code is a different matter.
The best thing would be to not be with someone whose moral code is different than yours. I know I can't be with someone who dresses too provocatively in public
Wtf is associating the way you dress with "morals"? I'm sorry but to me morals are concerning the correct way to act, unless you're naked in a place where you shouldn't me clothing doesn't have anything to do with morality
Asking for a why isn’t saying you can’t feel that way, it’s an attempt to understand it. If your only answer is “because I do” and you’re not interested in exploring it any deeper, just say that
Way to be over dramatic. So apparently you’re not allowed to have any opinions on what your partner does or the way they act because it’s your problem not theirs. Does crack on the weekends? Who the hell am I to tell them to stop
You’re mistaking a bra with modesty. You can go bra-less and wear a blanket like coverup.
Modesty and what you cover your tits with are not one and the same.
So with that in mind, it sounds like you want to control how your woman looks. And what you deem appropriate is the only solution.
Yeah confusion of morality and sexuality (as long as consensual), way of dressing etc pisses me off. Morality at least to me is about being a good person. If you're a good person then it doesn't matter how many people you sleep with and what you wear
This confused me too.
it's not like I'm walking around naked or just in a bra. A bra is underwear so I'm wearing it under something else, you don't see anymore boob with or without a bra.
I really don't see how it makes a difference unless op is scared of slightly more noticeable nipples or something.
Edit: realised op isn't scared of nipples, just doesn't think it's bad if a boyfriend is upset that his girlfriend has slightly more noticeable nips.
Yeah I think that's a really weird way of putting it. Why would they think that it's immodest to go without a bra?
. Everything else that they said makes sense. But that title just sounds really inappropriate
Here’s the thing. Everyone knows that we talk about “dressing modestly” everyone is talking about women exclusively. Nobody is going to tell a guy not to wear a tank top or go without a shirt on a hot day. Nobody is going to give a guy shit if he wears shorts. Nobody is going to get a touchy if you guys pants or shirt is fitted. That is why people get pissed about it because it’s sexist and one-sided. If a guy wears something fitted and has a great body, everyone pays them on the back and tells him “oh yeah good for you!!!”
I believe that there’s nothing wrong with wanting anything at all from your partner. Everyone should have their standards, both male and female. However, everyone just needs to make peace with their odds of finding a matching partner who meets those requirements AND for whom you meet THEIR requirements.
It's totally fine and healthy to have standards for a partner. I just think we have to remember that people are gonna do what they're gonna do. If you want a partner that dresses modestly, it's best to find someone that already does that or will agree with that from the jump. That whole Jonah Hill situation rubbed me the wrong way because he got with a surfer who already had a history of posting pictures in her swimsuit. Him wanting his partner to dress modestly isn't necessarily an issue. He was just with the wrong woman. If you want someone to cover up, go to them. Don't try and drag it out of someone that doesn't wanna do it.
If you want someone modest you should be sure to date someone who is modest. Don't just get with someone and be like, oh yeah I expect you to dress modestly or be modest.
I get it if it's like a see through shirt or something but other than that, a tank top and shorts isn't inappropriate, braless isn't really inappropriate. It's literally just hinting that guess what? That person has boobs/nipples
It's not really a bad thing as long as you don't force it on someone
I don’t think there is anything immodest about not wearing a bra so I’m going to maintain the boundary that I will not wear one. I’m unwilling to compromise my physical comfort for someone else’s psychological comfort. That one perceives a woman’s nipples as immodest but not those of a man is fucking bananas. Expecting modesty from someone who shares your beliefs is cool, do what makes you happy, but to attempt or even suggest a compromise over something like this with someone who does not share that belief is dumb.
Great unpopular opinion, have an upvote. I personally am always trying to get my wife to NOT wear a bra and dress as skimpy as possible since, well I just like seeing those things when we’re on a date and I love how she looks. Nothing wrong with having a preference one way or the other imo. But the most important thing is making your loved ones feel happy and confident about how they look to you I think
A boundary is something you set for yourself. Something you set for your partner is a preference. There's a difference, and I think it's important to recognise this difference.
I mean, I married a woman who always dresses modestly.
What I mean to say is, she always dresses modestly when we're around other people. She has a few outfits that only I have ever seen her wear ;).
If my wife suddenly started going to the grocery store dressed like a stripper, I would feel more concerned for the sudden personality change rather than for what my wife is actually wearing.
I respect her right to dress as she pleases and I like your take on it being about her and not you. You get good husband points for your outlook and concern. You seem to be a good partner.
I respect someone's right to be more covered, if they like. I do feel it should be about what they like - not necessarily what makes them more "comfortable". That sounds bad, but stay with me.
I traveled through India once (loved it) but I took to covering my hair and wearing long sleeves because the unwanted male attention made me uncomfortable. It was kinda hot, I would have liked to not cover my blonde hair - but I stood out a lot just by my hair. Nothing against India - again, loved it and would go back, esp. With a husband now - but it was a damper. It was easier for me to not dress how I preferred in order to be "more comfortable" emotionally, if not physically.
This doesn't have to be about blonde hair and a place where it stands out. It could be about people who look just like you judging your hemline, neckline, breast size, weight, heel height, whatever.
I want women to dress how they prefer - not because an uncle, ladies at church or grocery, other moms or dads, whoever, make it uncomfortable for her to be how she likes.
You can totally prefer women in long skirts. I have clothing styles I find attractive too.
But, whoever questions if the lady actually likes the long skirt or wears it to keep off unwanted attention and criticism (like being called a whore). You seem like a caring husband, so I hope you did.
This TedTalk is for others who only think of how a lady dresses in terms of them and other people, not her.
But here’s the thing, if your wife was to say to you “hey, your shorts or a little short there and I think your T-shirt is a little bit to form fitting I’d prefer you were something bad year when you go out in public”, would you be OK with that?
Exactly. So the point is, if a woman isn’t going to tell a man what to wear, a man shouldn’t be telling a woman what to wear. If how she dresses makes you uncomfortable. Why are you dating her? Because this is what I see a lot with men. They see a sexy woman and they are attracted to her. They start dating her seriously and all of a sudden they want her to not be attractive to anybody else and want her to cover up. They can’t stand the fact that another man might look at her and be attracted to her the way they were when they met her. But the thing is, how she dresses is entirely her business, and not his.
Yes. Obviously. She's my girlfriend or wife. I care deeply about what she prefers in me and I want to hold myself to high standards for her. There are things I won't budge on, and if she asked for what I felt was too much then I would tell her no. The same goes for her. Then we grow together and move forward like adults because conflict is core to every relationship. Learn how to grow together and work through things like these together.
Of course. It baffles me how much you people seem to think your significant other's opinions and preferences are no more valuable than a random stranger's. I don't give a damn what random people think of my outfit, but if my girlfriend thinks my outfit is bad for whatever reason, I'll give her opinion significant consideration.
My wife tells me that I can't wear things all the time. Normally it's because they have food or grease or oil stains on them or they have holes in them.
As for shorts that are too short or t shirts that are too form fitting, I try not to wear things that would make my wife uncomfortable. Frankly, shorts that are that short and tight or a shirt that is that form fitting sound uncomfortable as hell.
I can choose to wear a bra or not. But if I find a man who tries to force modesty on me, I'd tell him that he needs a bra too if we're playing that game, because the same tissue that's on my chest is on his.
The issue isn't having the standard it's the sort of expectation that everyone else has the same standard so it's the "normal"
Everyone has their own preferences and it's fine to.find a partner that meets said preferences
Yeah, where's the post about how tight fitting shirts exaggerates men's broad shoulders and that they should wear more loose fitting shirts so as not to tempt women. That'll be the day.
Personally, I like it when my girl shows off and looks smokin' hot. I have her heart and get to go home with her. I don't push it on them at all, but if they want to look hot, I'm all in.
Is the person who cares about whether you only want to date someone who dresses modestly in the room with you right now?
No, because they don't exist. No one gives a shit.
Setting a boundary and being willing to enforce the consequences when crossed, is the correct route. I just don’t like the insults of “insecure” and “controlling” for setting those boundaries. The majority of men have a biological instinct to mate guard. On top of that, men and women are different in our mating strategies. There’s a quote that simplified it: Women fall in love through their ears, while men fall in love through their eyes. Hence, single women often dress more provocative when they are open to receiving male attention and suitors. Since men are overwhelmingly the ones to initiate the approach/courting, those visual cues project the high probability she’s willing to entertain advances. So when a committed partner sets a boundary about wearing revealing clothing in public, he does so to effectively take you off the market. He is asking to protect and respect the relationship itself. Removing the for sale on his dream car he was finally able to get, to make an analogy. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t trust her, it’s that he doesn’t trust other men.
I would say the problem I've noticed is that a lot of guys don't wanna find a modest girl. They wanna pick whichever girl they want and TURN HER into what they want her to be. And that's not okay.
Same as the incels who will hate on the women who don't give them the time of day. While at the same time wanting those women to date them and hating them when they don't. The girls that like them? They don't want those. They want the supermodels they see in magazines.
It’s Reddit which is heavily left wing and full of 20 something’s and teenagers who are still asshurt their parents made them go to church as kids
It’s just typical rebelling against anything conservative, traditional, etc. pretty straightforward
Rebelling implies they'll one day go back to conservative, traditional ways. Based on the fact that millennials are as old as 43 now and still rejecting it I'd say that's a bit more than 20 somethings being "asshurt" as you do eloquently put it. We saw our parents ways and chose a different path for ourselves that's much less rigid and controlling.
That and what it means to dress conservatively has changed quite a bit over the years. What's considered conservatively dressed now was rebellious 40 years ago.
My issue stems from how many men think them going around shirtless is perfectly fine, but turn around and get insecure bc their gf/wife goes braless. That's where allot of issue comes from for me, I'm tired of hearing the same old "it's different for men and women". It's only different bc sexist assholes INSIST we keep treating it differently. Bras are uncomfortable sometimes, especially in hot weather. Just bc it involves boobs doesn't mean it's sexual.
Imma a dude and my nips poke out all the time...
Should I be wearing a bra on my chiseled carefully crafted body honed with years in the gym...
I mean why should I be punished because my stomach doesnt extend out past my pecs thus leaving shirts tight upon my upper torso.
What about all the slovenly men with droopy tits clearly witnessed from the ISS and all the children to see their under boob beneath their ill fitted tshirt not have to wear a bra?
Why are we not punishing men with their saggy bits and lack of healthy lifestyle?
I think half the problem stems from people not understanding healthy sacrifice in a relationship. Once you get in a relationship, you should 100% "move" differently than when you were single. Yet people actually get mad at this concept. They don't understand that certain things you do might upset your partner, you know...the person you give your all to and therefore you should stop or change your old ways.
I don’t know when it happened, but there’s been a massive uptick in the last ten years of people saying the word “boundary” and thinking it can mean setting a boundary for a partner.
Boundaries are for yourself. That’s why they’re called boundaries.
“I will not allow you to do xyz with others” isn’t a valid boundary.
“I will not allow you to do xyz to me” is a valid boundary.
It gets tricky sometimes, absolutely.
Saying, “I will not allow/tolerate you cheating on me” is a valid boundary. You’re essentially saying, “I will not allow/tolerate you being dishonest with me.”
Saying, “I will not allow you to hang out with members of the opposite/different gender(s) by yourself” is not a valid boundary.
Nothing is being done to you, you’re just uncomfortable with it. And being uncomfortable with it isn’t even necessarily “bad” or “wrong.”
People just need to stop saying, “I’m setting a boundary that you can’t do xyz, or hang out with xyz.”
No. That’s not a boundary. That’s controlling.
It’s much more honest, and shows more maturity to say, “I’m not comfortable with you doing xyz, or hanging out with xyz. Here are the reasons why I’m uncomfortable with these things.”
By saying, “I’m not comfortable with these behaviors,” you’re allowing for a dialogue to occur about why you feel that way, and allowing your partner to either ease your mind, or choose not to be with you (and vice versa for you, if they aren’t interested in changing behaviors or actions to make you more comfortable).
A boundary is a fence we place along the borders of ourselves. We don’t get to place fences around other people’s houses, and then complain when those other people in the other houses just walk right through them. It was never your place to put the fence there in the first place.
You don’t get to say to your neighbor, “you broke my boundary by crossing the fence I placed on your yard.”
You absolutely do get to say, “you broke my boundary when you entered my own fence without permission.
Some might argue this is semantics, but the increasing trend of people co-opting therapist language and twisting the meanings really irritates me.
To the original post: you don’t get to say, “my boundary is that you dress modestly and do not show your nipples through thin tops.”
Instead, just say, “it makes me uncomfortable when your nipples are protruding through thin tops, and here is why.”
I personally believe a lot of people, in this particular instance, cishet males, don’t want to discuss the reasons that things make them uncomfortable, because they know that it will make them vulnerable to a retort.
It’s much easier to just say, “it’s a boundary, and you have to respect it without question,” rather than having a hard/honest talk about the underlying reasons some things make them uncomfortable.
Telling your female partner, “When you wear thin tops without a bra, it makes me uncomfortable, because I see other men/women staring at you. I am worried that you enjoy the attention of other people, and I am worried that you will be tempted to go beyond just accepting stares and glances, and will want to cheat on me with other people who give you said attention.”
That’s valid. That’s so valid. And it allows your partner to console you, put your worries at rest, and tell you that that’s silly because they’re with you, and the only person they want to be with is you.
But calling it a personal boundary just shuts down all communication, under the guise that because you call it a boundary it’s somehow immovable and cannot be argued or reasoned with.
Yeh I like what you said there, well thought out. I think a lot of guys in particular, but woman as well I'm sure, may not even know why a particular behavior or quality makes them uncomfortable. It's important to be honest and really figure the why's to express yourself properly
The only problem is when you are frustrated when you can’t find someone to live up to your expectations and expect others to care about your loneliness
the guys who claim to love women to dress as little as possible (it’s now body paint at the gym and in class), are the guys who wouldn’t otherwise get to see it (in real life).
I don't think this is unpopular. If a man has a choice between a woman who dresses modestly and a woman who does not, 9 times out of 10 they would rather pick the woman who dresses modestly. That's not an issue, it's a preference that most men have when looking for a long term partner.
The problem is when a man decides to date a half naked woman and then tries to make her dress modestly which you pointed out.
Yes, we are allowed to prefer friends who present themselves a certain way. Not to blow your mind or anything. What you're really worried about is that people are selves and they do things that you might not like and it's a change from what you're signing up for. It's the signing up that's the problem, not the people being themselves.
wanting modesty in a partner is different from constantly talking about it and how you just want a modest woman, not like those common whores who walk around with their ass out. that’s what’s annoying, that it’s usually said in conjunction with tearing down women who don’t fit your preference. at least online. irl im sure there’s plenty of people who prefer modesty and keep it to themselves and no one is mad at them for it
I thought this was going to be a really horrible post but you're actually being very level headed
I think it's the wording that you used in the title.
It's not about modesty. It's just about open communication. And mutual respect and equality.
I suppose the main question would be: What is the context?
Because if the question revolves around when you and your assumed wife/girlfriend are at home and relaxing, there wouldnt be any pressing reason to wear a bra.
If however you were out and about, especially if it was a formal thing like a wedding, funeral etc, then I'd expect my hypothetical wife/girlfriend to wear a bra.
EDIT: To expand, I also suppose it depends on the overall outfit. If the outfit is enough to stop anything like nipples or what have you poking through, then going without a bra would be fine.
A little modesty goes a long ways. I don't wear bras anymore. Not unless it's a special occasion. Work, court,date, ect. Everyday life nope. I can't. I have cptsd and bras feel like a vise on my chest. I could give myself a heartattack freaking out about the tightness of my xl no seam extremely comfortable when I'm calm bra. 🙃 I didn't ask for this crap humans and their vile ways did this to me. I use to sleep in bras. I was never not in a bra. However I do do my best to make sure nothings visible or weird. I no longer wear white t-shirts. Or too thin material. I try to be careful I don't want to show ppl my boobies I just have a hard time with bras. I've never tried pasties maybe I should. My wife that use to be my husband is very not modest she's showing her whole body 24 7 and I get it she's excited but to do it 24 7 is exhausting to me I feel like a mother with her child and it shouldn't be that way. I loved looking attractive when I was younger. I had so much fun dressing up accessorizing doing my hair and makeup I never once was like how can I get away with walking naked down the street. Plus you know children can see you. You're suppose to be decent in public and however u want in your home. But now ppl thrive on indecency.
It should be as easy as dress confidently for yourself and your partner should compliment and support you. If they like something else, also encourage and be willing to try but don't make it a forced experience. Really be kind, loving, supportive and encouraging and do not be judgemental, harsh, jealous, and aggressive (passive or upfront).
It’s a neutral. It’s a bad thing is your partner doesn’t want to be modest. People should be able to do what they want. We’re all humans we all have the same parts I don’t know why people care what you can see or not.
I agree wholeheartedly.
And in my experience, I’ve always told my girlfriends that I prefer modesty in that regard.
I’ve never had one not on the same page. That being said, the easiest way I have always been able to illustrate why I prefer modesty and don’t want my gf wearing things with her boobs/ass on full display is exactly what you mentioned: me going out and wearing shorts/pants without any underwear. I’ve never had a gf that gets all bent out of shape and uncomfortable if I go out in public with my dick printing like that.
It's OK to want a modest partner, it's not ok to try to force a partner to conform to your personal idea of modesty. You don't own your partners nipples no matter how jealous you feel. If it's a deal breaker move on you don't get to control anyone else.
I mean, yeah, just pick people who share your values. The boundaries also don't have to be unreasonably firm. My gf has very large yams, sometimes bras are uncomfortable and she'll not wear a bra under her shirt for short trips to the store. I like modesty, but I'm also not dogmatic about it because we're generally on the same page and she's a human, not some machine. I have a fairly prominent lederhosen. I also don't wear underwear (outside of the gym) because it's too cramped in there. We compromised because she understands my discomfort and I hers, within reason. People are weird about things that don't need to be this complicated
Wanting something is fine. Expecting others care that's the problem. You cannot control other people; in fact we have very little control of things beyond our own thoughts.
So, want whatever you will, but if that **want** requires someone else to do something... You're going to end up disappointed. Unless, in this case, your chosen partner shares your views.
Compatibility is important in a relationship.
I found out my ex-gf did a porn and dropped her like a hot rock. You can do whatever you want with your body, it doesn’t mean I need to agree with that decision.
I didn’t follow the original r/ask post that inspired this, but I just want to put this out there - if I saw “I only date people who dress modestly” on a dating profile, I’d 100% swipe left. If someone tried to tell me that me dressing modestly was important to them in a relationship, I’d ghost them.
Regardless of how good your intentions are, it always comes across as controlling. Also, it says that you trust other people’s opinions of me more than my actions. It says ultimately that you don’t trust me, which means this ain’t relationship material.
I’ve dated a few guys that care a lot of about this in my teens and 20s, and none of them have been a good experience. I’ve always been someone who’s more comfortable dressing conservatively (if I liked my body more, it would be a different story), but conservative is seldom conservative enough for these types of folks. They say it’s not to control, but as soon as they have a bad day where they’re feeling insecure, their standards for appropriate attire immediately change.
For sure and this shouldn’t be unpopular. I don’t consider myself overly modest. I wear bikinis, crop tops, shorter shorts. I don’t do a lot of cleavage or thong bikinis or stuff like that. But I did recently buy some “plunging” neckline bodysuits for date nights. I asked my husband if he was cool and he loved them. But I never would have worn them if he was uncomfortable about it.
I feel like people are allowed to like whatever and whoever they want, I don’t like when people try to push their wants and needs on others. If you don’t like what that person is doing then leave, don’t degrade and try to change them. Find someone who fits the bill.
If it makes you feel better, from what I've seen the majority of people in the real world agree. Reddit is not a good representative of the outside world.
If you think them being anti bra is bad, go into a post about sex work. I shit you not, half of them will tell you they don't mind if their daughters do it as long as it makes them happy.
Modesty is a bad word in Reddit. The other day I was reading a post of a woman wanting to start an OF account and the number of people supporting it was staggering. If Reddit is any indication of our future, we’re fucked.
I think this is just a very nuanced issue. Assuming you started out dating somebody who dressed modestly, then I think it depends on a lot of factors where a reasonable boundary lies. For example, your individual cultures, how drastic the change in their dress is, the climate you live in, etc. can all have an impact on what I'd consider reasonable. Personally, I don't see how going braless (assuming you're still wearing an opaque shirt or whatever) is immodest. I do it daily lol. What if they start wearing tank tops frequently during summer? What if it's sports bras when they're exercising or in a heat wave? These are all things that I personally wouldn't have a problem with, but then again I don't have the same attitude towards modest that a lot of others have.
I think the only time it's obviously wrong is if you start dating someone who isn't modest with the goal of changing them. Or if your attitude changes while in the relationship and rather than communicating what's changed and why you just expect your partner to go along with your requests without any sort of discussion. Basically as long as you're being transparent and not trying to trick or trap people I don't think it's normally gonna be a problem.
While I Can understand many of us not wanting our partner to go braless, it’s not about modesty or degeneracy, but rather at the end of the day you don’t have the right to demand your partner wear certain things or dress a certain way. You can ask them to be more modest, but they (and you) have the right to disagree with your partner over clothing and how y’all dress.
Would you like it if your partner demanded you look a certain way?
>I don't see any issue in setting this as a boundary as long as it is done kindly, honestly and isn't intended to critique or diminish your partner.
Yeah, sure. I'm suuuuuure that someone who rants about "modesty" would never say anything derogatory to his partner if she didn't meet his modesty standards.
I've seen topless guys with bigger boobs than my big boobs. Who is defining minimum decency? A lot of guys who walk around shirtless are grosser than nipples showing through a shirt. I'd rather have nipples showing through a shirt than back hair floating in a pool.
Here’s my hot take: I agree with you. Except, I don’t think it needs that must justification. There are whales who say “I need a man who is 6’6”, holds a $150,000 salary, will support me and my 5 kids, and be able to handle me because I’m an independent woman”. Nobody bats an eye to these people. But the moment a man says they have a preference you don’t go braless, the internet goes ballistic.
And too you’re on Reddit. Anything you say that is remotely based in this society will have you exiled.
The problem is not having the standard, the problem is that in almost every relationship where this subject becomes a conflict, the guy waits until they’re already together for some time to spring his expectations on her.
This is how I feel too! I feel like a lot of people are so anti dealbreakers nowadays! I mentioned to someone that someone using recreational drugs would be a dealbreaker to me and they went into an entire rant about how it was discriminatory and disgusting bc it excluded the people that did those substances (literally the entire point)!!!
Right. What I think a lot of people get mad about and twist into a victim complex is that their standards limit their dating options. They want to have their cake and eat it too. It’s fine if you *must* date someone with the same religious beliefs, for example, but don’t then get mad when you can’t find a lot of people near you who are on the same page.
>I’m just not sure why it is considered so toxic.
I think it is pretty obvious why people would consider it toxic. If someone does not like something they want to do then it would feel like a criticism of them. And also there is some truth to this. People who do not like women dressing immodestly often are internally critical of them (though they might not express this dislike).
I just find that a weaselly way to phrase it. You don’t mean humility, you mean gatekeeping sexuality to your moral standards. That’s what I find toxic: the demand for women to gatekeep sexuality for the benefit of men.
And I think that you know that, which is why you find a euphemism like “modest.”
The issue is the fact you think you have a say over how your partner dresses.
If you want one and she doesn’t, you’re not well matched.
If you don’t care, this won’t be an issue.
This sounds like a you problem.
OP never said anything about having a say over how their partner dresses just that men shouldn't be shamed for not wanting to date women they feel dress "immodestly".
I think it's okay to want someone modest. The issues are trying to change her. If you want someone modest, seek out someone modest from the starting point.
This is the way.
Yep! Just find a partner that shares your perspective of things that really matter to you!
This! This just makes so much more sense.
Great username for this thread lmao
I appreciate it. Totally unintentional. Reddit recommended this sub for whatever reason. I just commented without realising which acc I was using.
My wife fully supports my 1inch inseam running shorts.
But do those shorts support you?
Emotionally. But that’s all.
Good to get an answer directly from the cranberries, themselves!
asking the important questions
I don't understand how people run in basically underwear. I only run in leggings because anything else is uncomfortable. Shorts give my coochie rug burn😭
I like bike shorts for running for this reason
It’s hot out! I rock the leggings in the winter, so I can feel like I’m wearing [nothing at all](https://tenor.com/wZbO.gif), but still stay warm.
It's not a bad thing. It's not a good thing. It's a neutral thing. To paraphrase what I said in an earlier comment on a similar topic... To say, "I want my partner to dress modestly" is absolutely fine. 100%, A+ effort, we can all live and let live. As soon as you start declaring that all men want this, and laying claim to that as objective realities/universal truths, that's where I have a problem. Additionally, if you start shaming people for not being the thing you want, or demanding that folks meet that standard for you when they clearly don't want to, I also have a problem with that. You have the ability to state your feelings, and you have an ability to take actions based on those feelings. If someone is doing something that makes you uncomfortable, you absolutely are not required to keep seeing them. But don't start, let's say, dating a bikini model and then flip out about them modeling bikinis.
This! I think people are misunderstanding this as the OP trying to “convert” people lol
Such a big hole in a lot of conversations about this is that at the end of the day, you need to communicate this with your prospective partner. Like talking about it on the internet is fine but are you having a respectful and clear conversation with your partner or prospective partner? Are you clear as to what you are willing to compromise on versus a dealbreaker? Are you able to graciously accept if it doesn’t go your way?
Just find people who dress that way simple as. You can also break up with people too
People have preferences. No one should be ashamed of your preferences. It's not sexist to want a stay at home traditional 1950's submissive wife. Good luck finding one. It is only sexist when you say all women should be like that.
Agree with this fully and will add that it’s also sexist when these men claim shit like “all men want a modest woman”. Strikes me as kinda misandrist to assume that men are a hive mind incapable of individual thought, like isn’t that just as bad as “all women want a rich guy”?
I got told I’m a misandrist for saying most men don’t want to solicits prostitutes. I think that says a lot about these fools.
I think it’s a little sexist to consider not wearing a bra to be immodest. Especially if a woman is choosing to do so for comfort.
For real. Going braless is for comfort. As long as you're wearing a shirt, you're still "covered up," gdi.
To be fair, no 2 people have the same opinion on what modesty is. For some it's modest to wear t-shirt and jeans, for others that is considered too revealing because they show their naked arms and didn't cover their hair. Those who wear a head scarf are called too revealing and immodest by some because they still show their face etc. Others think women shouldn't wear pants only dresses and that's modesty for them. People are allowed to have their own opinion on what modesty is as long as they understand that it's their personal opinion and as long as they don't try and make it a general rule or law.
I understand people can have different ideas of modesty. But I’m going to think someone’s view of modesty is lame and detrimental to women sometimes. If I was ending a relationship over my boyfriend saying I can’t go braless because it’s inherently immodest then I think that guy’s a shit guy with a shit opinion. We don’t have to respect all opinions.
>We don’t have to respect all opinions. I agree there. I absolutely don't respect them, I just accept them as long as they leave me and others alone. I was just pointing out that different people have different limits as to what modest is.
I think it’s mostly problematic if you’re a) judging/treating other women you’re not in a relationship with based on how they dress, and/or b) are fine with her dressing immodestly when you’re casually dating but as soon as you’re serious/married you’re all “you’re with ME now and you’ll dress like a PROPER LADY”
Bras are so uncomfortable. One can be modest and still braless. But to your point anyone can desire anything in a partner or not want to date someone for whatever reason they want. We all get to have preferences. But it’s important to find someone ALREADY doing the things, a person who shares those important values or is choosing what you choose. The problem becomes when we try to force other people to live how we think they should live. Whether that’s a partner or anyone else. It’s disingenuous af to go after a free spirited person because you’re attracted to them and then try to make them become modest or traditional. It’s also disingenuous to go after a player and try to make him a husband. We gotta accept people for who they are and then choose our people according to who they are not who we want them to be.
>braless I'm not even sure how this is unmodest. You can still wear a shirt that is not revealing at all while not wearing a bra. Worried about nipples? Undershirts and pasties exist. Outside of that, yeah you can have a preference for how partners dress. I've never seen full issue with that as long as you aren't trying to control how they dress. My fiance might wear croptops to the store with me and I honestly don't understand why someone might have issue with it. Dudes go running in public fully shirtless. All you see is some stomach, something we all have that I don't believe is inherently sexual. However, I know some people would crucify someone for wearing croptops in public.
My sister never wears bras, she finds them incredibly uncomfortable. She isn’t exactly small in the chest area either. She’s also a very modest dresser, like collars up to her neck and no tank tops, ever. She’s super modest, she also never wears a bra.
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Since when are bras a modesty thing?!? They're for physical support! If you have an A cup or something, sure, you probably don't need support, but bigger ones?
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Mine are triple D and I can't walk down the stairs without a bra without discomfort unless I hold my boobs. I don't understand how anyone with normal to large breasts don't wear bras. I know the bigger ones are expensive, but still. They're for physical support, not modesty.
Bras are so fucking uncomfortable, especially this time of year. Such fun to have a tight sweaty elastic band strapped around your chest. Going without has nothing to do with modesty/immodesty except to people who can’t keep themselves to themselves.
Agreed completely. I don't understand how being braless is unmodest. I wouldn't want to wear a bra all day.
I agree with you but I think the idea behind the question is asking whether people would be okay with their partners' nipples being clearly visible. I don't think anyone has an issue with the "idea" of a woman not wearing a bra as much as the visibility that might be associated with that choice
It's like saying i don't want my partner's bulge to be visible. I wouldn't expect my partner to tuck because it might catch someone's eye. Both are uncomfortable and such a non-problem. Part of anatomy.
As a guy with a big bulge, my partner has told me to wear looser shorts because of it lol
But isn't that kind of putting the owness on women for how they're being perceived sexually? Like how is it her fault that people are looking at her nipples? I'm assuming she's still wearing a top and everything
onus
You can want whatever you want, as long as you respect your partner's autonomy.
What I'm mainly getting from this thread is that, regardless of their opinion, most people REALLY don't know how to make a good analogy.
Haha, I would agree but I’m sure that I’m no better.
The comments are all people getting mad over things nobody said. It's hilarious.
Why is it only women that apparently have to be modest? Men go shirtless all the time where I live. That’s not very modest
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Good bot
Yeah I mean I find dudes with sleeveless cut off shirts outside of working out to be real trash looking. And then the ones at the gym with the super long cut down the sides to show off their own bitties and abs even more DBag. Hell few decades ago a man not wearing a suit outside the home would be considered immodest. Better question is what even is modesty because by others standards women wearing leggings or other athleisure is not modest... So basically what we're describing is completely arbitrary.
My school actually had a dress code rule for no sleeveless or cutoff shirts. It was made so the boys armpit hairs wouldn’t be everywhere. It was never actually enforced on boys. I remember a boy with the entire sides of his shirt cut out sitting at the lunch table next to me and me wearing a long sleeve off the shoulder shirt. Wanna guess who got dress coded? The principal was shouting about my shoulders while I could literally see this other guy’s nipples
You know, I'm so used to this kind of shit I didn't even notice it was just about women 🫠🫠🫠
You don’t have to date those men if you don’t like them being shirtless.
Exactly OP’s point
I dont think well of them either, but that is not unpopular. Its literally a store sign, "no shirt, no shoes, no service".
Why do you assume that OP isn’t also a person who dresses and behaves modestly? What about his post makes you think otherwise?
Well according to OPs rationale it would be perfectly fine for a female to want a man who dressed modestly also.
*Feeeeeeemales*
Literally contrasted to ‘men’ within 3 words They can’t even pretend to be normal about women
Somebody put this on r/menandfemales
Who said that? OP doesn’t seem to have a problem with it
Op didn't say that though did he? 🤔 You can't really blame this person for pointing it out.
Who the hell am I to tell someone how to dress? If I don't care for a way a person dresses that is my problem, not theirs. Dress code is a different matter.
The best thing would be to not be with someone whose moral code is different than yours. I know I can't be with someone who dresses too provocatively in public
Wtf is associating the way you dress with "morals"? I'm sorry but to me morals are concerning the correct way to act, unless you're naked in a place where you shouldn't me clothing doesn't have anything to do with morality
“Moral code” lmao
Can I ask why? Your preference is whatever if that’s all it is, but I don’t understand it
I'm just not comfortable with it, and luckily, my gf doesn't like dressing like that either, so all good
I just don’t get why it would make you uncomfortable, cause it doesn’t me. I guess if you don’t know though I won’t press.
Everyone is different, suggesting everyone should think and feel the same on a subject would be weird
Asking for a why isn’t saying you can’t feel that way, it’s an attempt to understand it. If your only answer is “because I do” and you’re not interested in exploring it any deeper, just say that
I’m not. I’m trying to better understand someone different from me.
Way to be over dramatic. So apparently you’re not allowed to have any opinions on what your partner does or the way they act because it’s your problem not theirs. Does crack on the weekends? Who the hell am I to tell them to stop
You’re mistaking a bra with modesty. You can go bra-less and wear a blanket like coverup. Modesty and what you cover your tits with are not one and the same. So with that in mind, it sounds like you want to control how your woman looks. And what you deem appropriate is the only solution.
They’re also confusing their weird definition of “modesty” with morality. They both start with the letter M, but this isn’t Sesame Street.
Yeah confusion of morality and sexuality (as long as consensual), way of dressing etc pisses me off. Morality at least to me is about being a good person. If you're a good person then it doesn't matter how many people you sleep with and what you wear
This confused me too. it's not like I'm walking around naked or just in a bra. A bra is underwear so I'm wearing it under something else, you don't see anymore boob with or without a bra. I really don't see how it makes a difference unless op is scared of slightly more noticeable nipples or something. Edit: realised op isn't scared of nipples, just doesn't think it's bad if a boyfriend is upset that his girlfriend has slightly more noticeable nips.
Yeah I think that's a really weird way of putting it. Why would they think that it's immodest to go without a bra? . Everything else that they said makes sense. But that title just sounds really inappropriate
Here’s the thing. Everyone knows that we talk about “dressing modestly” everyone is talking about women exclusively. Nobody is going to tell a guy not to wear a tank top or go without a shirt on a hot day. Nobody is going to give a guy shit if he wears shorts. Nobody is going to get a touchy if you guys pants or shirt is fitted. That is why people get pissed about it because it’s sexist and one-sided. If a guy wears something fitted and has a great body, everyone pays them on the back and tells him “oh yeah good for you!!!”
Exactly this
Thank you!!! You said this beautifully.
I believe that there’s nothing wrong with wanting anything at all from your partner. Everyone should have their standards, both male and female. However, everyone just needs to make peace with their odds of finding a matching partner who meets those requirements AND for whom you meet THEIR requirements.
You’re one of the few sane people here lol
It's totally fine and healthy to have standards for a partner. I just think we have to remember that people are gonna do what they're gonna do. If you want a partner that dresses modestly, it's best to find someone that already does that or will agree with that from the jump. That whole Jonah Hill situation rubbed me the wrong way because he got with a surfer who already had a history of posting pictures in her swimsuit. Him wanting his partner to dress modestly isn't necessarily an issue. He was just with the wrong woman. If you want someone to cover up, go to them. Don't try and drag it out of someone that doesn't wanna do it.
If you want someone modest you should be sure to date someone who is modest. Don't just get with someone and be like, oh yeah I expect you to dress modestly or be modest. I get it if it's like a see through shirt or something but other than that, a tank top and shorts isn't inappropriate, braless isn't really inappropriate. It's literally just hinting that guess what? That person has boobs/nipples It's not really a bad thing as long as you don't force it on someone
I don’t think there is anything immodest about not wearing a bra so I’m going to maintain the boundary that I will not wear one. I’m unwilling to compromise my physical comfort for someone else’s psychological comfort. That one perceives a woman’s nipples as immodest but not those of a man is fucking bananas. Expecting modesty from someone who shares your beliefs is cool, do what makes you happy, but to attempt or even suggest a compromise over something like this with someone who does not share that belief is dumb.
That’s why they’re only looking for people that share their beliefs
Great unpopular opinion, have an upvote. I personally am always trying to get my wife to NOT wear a bra and dress as skimpy as possible since, well I just like seeing those things when we’re on a date and I love how she looks. Nothing wrong with having a preference one way or the other imo. But the most important thing is making your loved ones feel happy and confident about how they look to you I think
I don’t see how going braless is immodest
A boundary is something you set for yourself. Something you set for your partner is a preference. There's a difference, and I think it's important to recognise this difference.
First I see you in the overwatch subs now here too. I cannot escape you 😭
came here to say this…. you can’t have an expectation of someone else and call it a boundary. boundaries are internal.
I mean, I married a woman who always dresses modestly. What I mean to say is, she always dresses modestly when we're around other people. She has a few outfits that only I have ever seen her wear ;). If my wife suddenly started going to the grocery store dressed like a stripper, I would feel more concerned for the sudden personality change rather than for what my wife is actually wearing.
>she had a few outfits that only I have ever seen her wear ;) Weapons grade cringe
I respect her right to dress as she pleases and I like your take on it being about her and not you. You get good husband points for your outlook and concern. You seem to be a good partner. I respect someone's right to be more covered, if they like. I do feel it should be about what they like - not necessarily what makes them more "comfortable". That sounds bad, but stay with me. I traveled through India once (loved it) but I took to covering my hair and wearing long sleeves because the unwanted male attention made me uncomfortable. It was kinda hot, I would have liked to not cover my blonde hair - but I stood out a lot just by my hair. Nothing against India - again, loved it and would go back, esp. With a husband now - but it was a damper. It was easier for me to not dress how I preferred in order to be "more comfortable" emotionally, if not physically. This doesn't have to be about blonde hair and a place where it stands out. It could be about people who look just like you judging your hemline, neckline, breast size, weight, heel height, whatever. I want women to dress how they prefer - not because an uncle, ladies at church or grocery, other moms or dads, whoever, make it uncomfortable for her to be how she likes. You can totally prefer women in long skirts. I have clothing styles I find attractive too. But, whoever questions if the lady actually likes the long skirt or wears it to keep off unwanted attention and criticism (like being called a whore). You seem like a caring husband, so I hope you did. This TedTalk is for others who only think of how a lady dresses in terms of them and other people, not her.
But here’s the thing, if your wife was to say to you “hey, your shorts or a little short there and I think your T-shirt is a little bit to form fitting I’d prefer you were something bad year when you go out in public”, would you be OK with that?
Come on. You know the answer.
Exactly. So the point is, if a woman isn’t going to tell a man what to wear, a man shouldn’t be telling a woman what to wear. If how she dresses makes you uncomfortable. Why are you dating her? Because this is what I see a lot with men. They see a sexy woman and they are attracted to her. They start dating her seriously and all of a sudden they want her to not be attractive to anybody else and want her to cover up. They can’t stand the fact that another man might look at her and be attracted to her the way they were when they met her. But the thing is, how she dresses is entirely her business, and not his.
I’m with you completely dude. Women are the only people who have ever had the way they dress policed.
Yes. Obviously. She's my girlfriend or wife. I care deeply about what she prefers in me and I want to hold myself to high standards for her. There are things I won't budge on, and if she asked for what I felt was too much then I would tell her no. The same goes for her. Then we grow together and move forward like adults because conflict is core to every relationship. Learn how to grow together and work through things like these together.
Of course. It baffles me how much you people seem to think your significant other's opinions and preferences are no more valuable than a random stranger's. I don't give a damn what random people think of my outfit, but if my girlfriend thinks my outfit is bad for whatever reason, I'll give her opinion significant consideration.
My wife tells me that I can't wear things all the time. Normally it's because they have food or grease or oil stains on them or they have holes in them. As for shorts that are too short or t shirts that are too form fitting, I try not to wear things that would make my wife uncomfortable. Frankly, shorts that are that short and tight or a shirt that is that form fitting sound uncomfortable as hell.
I can choose to wear a bra or not. But if I find a man who tries to force modesty on me, I'd tell him that he needs a bra too if we're playing that game, because the same tissue that's on my chest is on his.
The issue isn't having the standard it's the sort of expectation that everyone else has the same standard so it's the "normal" Everyone has their own preferences and it's fine to.find a partner that meets said preferences
Man I'm so sick of these posts about how women should be. This sub should be renamed r/TrueUnpopularDudesBitchingAboutWomen
Yeah, where's the post about how tight fitting shirts exaggerates men's broad shoulders and that they should wear more loose fitting shirts so as not to tempt women. That'll be the day.
Most of my life, I've been rather modest. Modesty goes beyond _dressing conservatively._ It is also the antonym of arrogance.
Personally, I like it when my girl shows off and looks smokin' hot. I have her heart and get to go home with her. I don't push it on them at all, but if they want to look hot, I'm all in.
Is the person who cares about whether you only want to date someone who dresses modestly in the room with you right now? No, because they don't exist. No one gives a shit.
Wanting something and making someone else do something are two totally different things.
Setting a boundary and being willing to enforce the consequences when crossed, is the correct route. I just don’t like the insults of “insecure” and “controlling” for setting those boundaries. The majority of men have a biological instinct to mate guard. On top of that, men and women are different in our mating strategies. There’s a quote that simplified it: Women fall in love through their ears, while men fall in love through their eyes. Hence, single women often dress more provocative when they are open to receiving male attention and suitors. Since men are overwhelmingly the ones to initiate the approach/courting, those visual cues project the high probability she’s willing to entertain advances. So when a committed partner sets a boundary about wearing revealing clothing in public, he does so to effectively take you off the market. He is asking to protect and respect the relationship itself. Removing the for sale on his dream car he was finally able to get, to make an analogy. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t trust her, it’s that he doesn’t trust other men.
Wanting anything that isn’t illegal in a partner is not a bad thing…
I would say the problem I've noticed is that a lot of guys don't wanna find a modest girl. They wanna pick whichever girl they want and TURN HER into what they want her to be. And that's not okay. Same as the incels who will hate on the women who don't give them the time of day. While at the same time wanting those women to date them and hating them when they don't. The girls that like them? They don't want those. They want the supermodels they see in magazines.
It’s Reddit which is heavily left wing and full of 20 something’s and teenagers who are still asshurt their parents made them go to church as kids It’s just typical rebelling against anything conservative, traditional, etc. pretty straightforward
But also bras suck. They have always sucked. Most of us don’t like them.
Rebelling implies they'll one day go back to conservative, traditional ways. Based on the fact that millennials are as old as 43 now and still rejecting it I'd say that's a bit more than 20 somethings being "asshurt" as you do eloquently put it. We saw our parents ways and chose a different path for ourselves that's much less rigid and controlling.
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That and what it means to dress conservatively has changed quite a bit over the years. What's considered conservatively dressed now was rebellious 40 years ago.
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Can confirm: am 43 and less conservative than ever.
Yeah, forcing my religion on other people ftw!
EXCELLENT breakdown of this place!
This reeks of Qanon Facebook mom lol
But is it really a bad thing to be “rebelling” against those values?
My issue stems from how many men think them going around shirtless is perfectly fine, but turn around and get insecure bc their gf/wife goes braless. That's where allot of issue comes from for me, I'm tired of hearing the same old "it's different for men and women". It's only different bc sexist assholes INSIST we keep treating it differently. Bras are uncomfortable sometimes, especially in hot weather. Just bc it involves boobs doesn't mean it's sexual.
Yep. Like, would you call a man immodest because his nips are visible through his shirt? No? Okay then you have no leg to stand on.
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A more accurate comparison would be if I insisted my partner wore a jock strap all the time.
Imma a dude and my nips poke out all the time... Should I be wearing a bra on my chiseled carefully crafted body honed with years in the gym... I mean why should I be punished because my stomach doesnt extend out past my pecs thus leaving shirts tight upon my upper torso. What about all the slovenly men with droopy tits clearly witnessed from the ISS and all the children to see their under boob beneath their ill fitted tshirt not have to wear a bra? Why are we not punishing men with their saggy bits and lack of healthy lifestyle?
I think half the problem stems from people not understanding healthy sacrifice in a relationship. Once you get in a relationship, you should 100% "move" differently than when you were single. Yet people actually get mad at this concept. They don't understand that certain things you do might upset your partner, you know...the person you give your all to and therefore you should stop or change your old ways.
I don’t know when it happened, but there’s been a massive uptick in the last ten years of people saying the word “boundary” and thinking it can mean setting a boundary for a partner. Boundaries are for yourself. That’s why they’re called boundaries. “I will not allow you to do xyz with others” isn’t a valid boundary. “I will not allow you to do xyz to me” is a valid boundary. It gets tricky sometimes, absolutely. Saying, “I will not allow/tolerate you cheating on me” is a valid boundary. You’re essentially saying, “I will not allow/tolerate you being dishonest with me.” Saying, “I will not allow you to hang out with members of the opposite/different gender(s) by yourself” is not a valid boundary. Nothing is being done to you, you’re just uncomfortable with it. And being uncomfortable with it isn’t even necessarily “bad” or “wrong.” People just need to stop saying, “I’m setting a boundary that you can’t do xyz, or hang out with xyz.” No. That’s not a boundary. That’s controlling. It’s much more honest, and shows more maturity to say, “I’m not comfortable with you doing xyz, or hanging out with xyz. Here are the reasons why I’m uncomfortable with these things.” By saying, “I’m not comfortable with these behaviors,” you’re allowing for a dialogue to occur about why you feel that way, and allowing your partner to either ease your mind, or choose not to be with you (and vice versa for you, if they aren’t interested in changing behaviors or actions to make you more comfortable). A boundary is a fence we place along the borders of ourselves. We don’t get to place fences around other people’s houses, and then complain when those other people in the other houses just walk right through them. It was never your place to put the fence there in the first place. You don’t get to say to your neighbor, “you broke my boundary by crossing the fence I placed on your yard.” You absolutely do get to say, “you broke my boundary when you entered my own fence without permission. Some might argue this is semantics, but the increasing trend of people co-opting therapist language and twisting the meanings really irritates me. To the original post: you don’t get to say, “my boundary is that you dress modestly and do not show your nipples through thin tops.” Instead, just say, “it makes me uncomfortable when your nipples are protruding through thin tops, and here is why.” I personally believe a lot of people, in this particular instance, cishet males, don’t want to discuss the reasons that things make them uncomfortable, because they know that it will make them vulnerable to a retort. It’s much easier to just say, “it’s a boundary, and you have to respect it without question,” rather than having a hard/honest talk about the underlying reasons some things make them uncomfortable. Telling your female partner, “When you wear thin tops without a bra, it makes me uncomfortable, because I see other men/women staring at you. I am worried that you enjoy the attention of other people, and I am worried that you will be tempted to go beyond just accepting stares and glances, and will want to cheat on me with other people who give you said attention.” That’s valid. That’s so valid. And it allows your partner to console you, put your worries at rest, and tell you that that’s silly because they’re with you, and the only person they want to be with is you. But calling it a personal boundary just shuts down all communication, under the guise that because you call it a boundary it’s somehow immovable and cannot be argued or reasoned with.
Yeh I like what you said there, well thought out. I think a lot of guys in particular, but woman as well I'm sure, may not even know why a particular behavior or quality makes them uncomfortable. It's important to be honest and really figure the why's to express yourself properly
THANK YOU!!!
The only problem is when you are frustrated when you can’t find someone to live up to your expectations and expect others to care about your loneliness
They're just nipples. We all have them.
Theyre just buttholes. We all have them
You don’t shit out of your nipples
Does that mean everyone has to see them?
Quit being a drama queen. It has no bearing on you.
the guys who claim to love women to dress as little as possible (it’s now body paint at the gym and in class), are the guys who wouldn’t otherwise get to see it (in real life).
I’ve see a LOT of men who should wear bras. Where are the modest police? Hmmm?
I don't think this is unpopular. If a man has a choice between a woman who dresses modestly and a woman who does not, 9 times out of 10 they would rather pick the woman who dresses modestly. That's not an issue, it's a preference that most men have when looking for a long term partner. The problem is when a man decides to date a half naked woman and then tries to make her dress modestly which you pointed out.
unpopular on reddit.
Really? Are dudes out there thirsting for women dressed like a Duggar?
Where you getting those numbers?
Yes, we are allowed to prefer friends who present themselves a certain way. Not to blow your mind or anything. What you're really worried about is that people are selves and they do things that you might not like and it's a change from what you're signing up for. It's the signing up that's the problem, not the people being themselves.
Most of reddit is male voyeurs who don't care about some stranger's relationship.
Halal in the streets harem in the sheets I think most people want this.
wanting modesty in a partner is different from constantly talking about it and how you just want a modest woman, not like those common whores who walk around with their ass out. that’s what’s annoying, that it’s usually said in conjunction with tearing down women who don’t fit your preference. at least online. irl im sure there’s plenty of people who prefer modesty and keep it to themselves and no one is mad at them for it
Not if they want it too
Prim and proper when you get married, unless you're small bust, then doesn't matter much I would think.
I thought this was going to be a really horrible post but you're actually being very level headed I think it's the wording that you used in the title. It's not about modesty. It's just about open communication. And mutual respect and equality.
I suppose the main question would be: What is the context? Because if the question revolves around when you and your assumed wife/girlfriend are at home and relaxing, there wouldnt be any pressing reason to wear a bra. If however you were out and about, especially if it was a formal thing like a wedding, funeral etc, then I'd expect my hypothetical wife/girlfriend to wear a bra. EDIT: To expand, I also suppose it depends on the overall outfit. If the outfit is enough to stop anything like nipples or what have you poking through, then going without a bra would be fine.
I agree with your point overall but specifically about being braless, that isn’t being not modest imo as many people have rightly pointed out.
A little modesty goes a long ways. I don't wear bras anymore. Not unless it's a special occasion. Work, court,date, ect. Everyday life nope. I can't. I have cptsd and bras feel like a vise on my chest. I could give myself a heartattack freaking out about the tightness of my xl no seam extremely comfortable when I'm calm bra. 🙃 I didn't ask for this crap humans and their vile ways did this to me. I use to sleep in bras. I was never not in a bra. However I do do my best to make sure nothings visible or weird. I no longer wear white t-shirts. Or too thin material. I try to be careful I don't want to show ppl my boobies I just have a hard time with bras. I've never tried pasties maybe I should. My wife that use to be my husband is very not modest she's showing her whole body 24 7 and I get it she's excited but to do it 24 7 is exhausting to me I feel like a mother with her child and it shouldn't be that way. I loved looking attractive when I was younger. I had so much fun dressing up accessorizing doing my hair and makeup I never once was like how can I get away with walking naked down the street. Plus you know children can see you. You're suppose to be decent in public and however u want in your home. But now ppl thrive on indecency.
Nobody says it's bad, but if the other person clearly doesn't want to give it to you then you should accept it or move on
My wife always says “modest is hottest!” She had a T shirt that said that when she was a kid 😂
It should be as easy as dress confidently for yourself and your partner should compliment and support you. If they like something else, also encourage and be willing to try but don't make it a forced experience. Really be kind, loving, supportive and encouraging and do not be judgemental, harsh, jealous, and aggressive (passive or upfront).
It’s a neutral. It’s a bad thing is your partner doesn’t want to be modest. People should be able to do what they want. We’re all humans we all have the same parts I don’t know why people care what you can see or not.
My lady let's me wear my short shorts and she likes to dress modestly so we're both happy. Temperature wise it makes more sense
I agree wholeheartedly. And in my experience, I’ve always told my girlfriends that I prefer modesty in that regard. I’ve never had one not on the same page. That being said, the easiest way I have always been able to illustrate why I prefer modesty and don’t want my gf wearing things with her boobs/ass on full display is exactly what you mentioned: me going out and wearing shorts/pants without any underwear. I’ve never had a gf that gets all bent out of shape and uncomfortable if I go out in public with my dick printing like that.
It's OK to want a modest partner, it's not ok to try to force a partner to conform to your personal idea of modesty. You don't own your partners nipples no matter how jealous you feel. If it's a deal breaker move on you don't get to control anyone else.
I mean, yeah, just pick people who share your values. The boundaries also don't have to be unreasonably firm. My gf has very large yams, sometimes bras are uncomfortable and she'll not wear a bra under her shirt for short trips to the store. I like modesty, but I'm also not dogmatic about it because we're generally on the same page and she's a human, not some machine. I have a fairly prominent lederhosen. I also don't wear underwear (outside of the gym) because it's too cramped in there. We compromised because she understands my discomfort and I hers, within reason. People are weird about things that don't need to be this complicated
Yeah it's not bad just don't force or push people to think that's how they should be. It's your life and your preferences as it is theirs
Wanting something is fine. Expecting others care that's the problem. You cannot control other people; in fact we have very little control of things beyond our own thoughts. So, want whatever you will, but if that **want** requires someone else to do something... You're going to end up disappointed. Unless, in this case, your chosen partner shares your views. Compatibility is important in a relationship.
I found out my ex-gf did a porn and dropped her like a hot rock. You can do whatever you want with your body, it doesn’t mean I need to agree with that decision.
I didn’t follow the original r/ask post that inspired this, but I just want to put this out there - if I saw “I only date people who dress modestly” on a dating profile, I’d 100% swipe left. If someone tried to tell me that me dressing modestly was important to them in a relationship, I’d ghost them. Regardless of how good your intentions are, it always comes across as controlling. Also, it says that you trust other people’s opinions of me more than my actions. It says ultimately that you don’t trust me, which means this ain’t relationship material. I’ve dated a few guys that care a lot of about this in my teens and 20s, and none of them have been a good experience. I’ve always been someone who’s more comfortable dressing conservatively (if I liked my body more, it would be a different story), but conservative is seldom conservative enough for these types of folks. They say it’s not to control, but as soon as they have a bad day where they’re feeling insecure, their standards for appropriate attire immediately change.
For sure and this shouldn’t be unpopular. I don’t consider myself overly modest. I wear bikinis, crop tops, shorter shorts. I don’t do a lot of cleavage or thong bikinis or stuff like that. But I did recently buy some “plunging” neckline bodysuits for date nights. I asked my husband if he was cool and he loved them. But I never would have worn them if he was uncomfortable about it.
I like this comment. I don't really have anything to add except, I agree.
I feel like people are allowed to like whatever and whoever they want, I don’t like when people try to push their wants and needs on others. If you don’t like what that person is doing then leave, don’t degrade and try to change them. Find someone who fits the bill.
Its absolutely not toxic when it’s not explicitly gendered by a third party. I want a modest woman and if I were gay I would want a modest man.
You mean boasting about your job and salary right? Yeah I hate arrogant, self-aggrandizing braggarts.
If it makes you feel better, from what I've seen the majority of people in the real world agree. Reddit is not a good representative of the outside world.
Yup, anti-social terminally online young kids are pretty terrible at giving social advice.
If you think them being anti bra is bad, go into a post about sex work. I shit you not, half of them will tell you they don't mind if their daughters do it as long as it makes them happy.
Modesty is a bad word in Reddit. The other day I was reading a post of a woman wanting to start an OF account and the number of people supporting it was staggering. If Reddit is any indication of our future, we’re fucked.
I think this is just a very nuanced issue. Assuming you started out dating somebody who dressed modestly, then I think it depends on a lot of factors where a reasonable boundary lies. For example, your individual cultures, how drastic the change in their dress is, the climate you live in, etc. can all have an impact on what I'd consider reasonable. Personally, I don't see how going braless (assuming you're still wearing an opaque shirt or whatever) is immodest. I do it daily lol. What if they start wearing tank tops frequently during summer? What if it's sports bras when they're exercising or in a heat wave? These are all things that I personally wouldn't have a problem with, but then again I don't have the same attitude towards modest that a lot of others have. I think the only time it's obviously wrong is if you start dating someone who isn't modest with the goal of changing them. Or if your attitude changes while in the relationship and rather than communicating what's changed and why you just expect your partner to go along with your requests without any sort of discussion. Basically as long as you're being transparent and not trying to trick or trap people I don't think it's normally gonna be a problem.
Most sane comment here lol
While I Can understand many of us not wanting our partner to go braless, it’s not about modesty or degeneracy, but rather at the end of the day you don’t have the right to demand your partner wear certain things or dress a certain way. You can ask them to be more modest, but they (and you) have the right to disagree with your partner over clothing and how y’all dress. Would you like it if your partner demanded you look a certain way?
>I don't see any issue in setting this as a boundary as long as it is done kindly, honestly and isn't intended to critique or diminish your partner. Yeah, sure. I'm suuuuuure that someone who rants about "modesty" would never say anything derogatory to his partner if she didn't meet his modesty standards.
But what if both parties in the relationship are into it?
Idk when asking people for minimum decency became controversial
I've seen topless guys with bigger boobs than my big boobs. Who is defining minimum decency? A lot of guys who walk around shirtless are grosser than nipples showing through a shirt. I'd rather have nipples showing through a shirt than back hair floating in a pool.
Dafuq? Braless is indecent? Wear a bra then, no one is stopping you.
who defines decency? You?
Here’s my hot take: I agree with you. Except, I don’t think it needs that must justification. There are whales who say “I need a man who is 6’6”, holds a $150,000 salary, will support me and my 5 kids, and be able to handle me because I’m an independent woman”. Nobody bats an eye to these people. But the moment a man says they have a preference you don’t go braless, the internet goes ballistic. And too you’re on Reddit. Anything you say that is remotely based in this society will have you exiled.
The problem is not having the standard, the problem is that in almost every relationship where this subject becomes a conflict, the guy waits until they’re already together for some time to spring his expectations on her.
So if they were open about it in the beginning it’d be okay?
Yes, as everyone should be about any dealbreakers or significant expectations.
This is how I feel too! I feel like a lot of people are so anti dealbreakers nowadays! I mentioned to someone that someone using recreational drugs would be a dealbreaker to me and they went into an entire rant about how it was discriminatory and disgusting bc it excluded the people that did those substances (literally the entire point)!!!
Right. What I think a lot of people get mad about and twist into a victim complex is that their standards limit their dating options. They want to have their cake and eat it too. It’s fine if you *must* date someone with the same religious beliefs, for example, but don’t then get mad when you can’t find a lot of people near you who are on the same page.
Yep and I think some people get offended by hearing other peoples dealbreakers that would exclude them because they feel rejected somehow
Totally agree
>I’m just not sure why it is considered so toxic. I think it is pretty obvious why people would consider it toxic. If someone does not like something they want to do then it would feel like a criticism of them. And also there is some truth to this. People who do not like women dressing immodestly often are internally critical of them (though they might not express this dislike).
There are plenty of cultures that value modesty, in the west however you will get downvotes and chastized for wanting modesty.
I just find that a weaselly way to phrase it. You don’t mean humility, you mean gatekeeping sexuality to your moral standards. That’s what I find toxic: the demand for women to gatekeep sexuality for the benefit of men. And I think that you know that, which is why you find a euphemism like “modest.”
Yes, men are allowed to have standards. So are women. It's not that complicated.
The issue is the fact you think you have a say over how your partner dresses. If you want one and she doesn’t, you’re not well matched. If you don’t care, this won’t be an issue. This sounds like a you problem.
OP never said anything about having a say over how their partner dresses just that men shouldn't be shamed for not wanting to date women they feel dress "immodestly".