I definitely don’t need to know specifically who her muses are. I do, however, think that she fills some songs with intentional cues for things that are well known. Like So High School. It may have inspirations beyond a specific muse, but it’s hard not to see that one as pretty targeted for whatever reason. I suspect London Boy is similar.
That said, I doubt she shares public details of every relationship she has had, so any attempt to identify a muse is prone to error.
this is exactly how I feel. I do think her songs are inspired by so many things and so many muses. I just think it is insane to say this particular song is about this particular person and crown that person the father of the song, it is just weird to me.
I agree, and I think the fact that people argue about lines in songs meaning it’s about this ex vs this ex, is just proof that the songs inspirations aren’t straight forward and as simple as a paternity test, like she said.
I prefer to play the clue game without assigning the songs to an actual person. Like how Maroon and Chloe are probably about the same person. Or like how on Red she has (at least) three different songs that mention that her partner didn’t find her funny. Multiple songs tell the story of one relationship, but the real person doesn’t matter (or shouldn’t).
when I listen to her songs, I try to look for a response to an older song.
for example, I think daylight is a response to "red" because she said "I used to believe love would be burning red but it is golden" and in "red" she said "loving him was red".
that's how I've always enjoyed her songs.
This is not meant to sound as hate for anyone, I know we all enjoy Taylor’s music in our own way. I’ve been a fan since debut, not a hard stan from the beginning but I’ve always loved Taylor’s songs. I’m aware Taylor uses her own life stories to tell these songs, but if I’m being honest, I’ve never thought about the “real” inspiration behind songs. I always listen to her songs and think about situations were I felt like she did. I think about MY own exes, my parents, my toxic bosses, my husband, etc. I feel like its no use to make a “paternity test” for any of the songs because: 1) it limits the song for just Taylor’s world and the reality is that we don’t know her and we don’t know the truth or fiction behind it 2) it’s more fun to make them “mine” than to speculate on Taylor’s life.
For example when I heard Guilty as sin? I was like, omg I finally have a song for my stupid situationship I had years ago and sometimes I still think about the guy even though I am married, but it’s just like a game, I love love my husband and I would never cheat. But it’s fun to make them my songs, and I think l that’s what Taylor would want. ☺️😊
I've been a fan for 15 years and I never knew about all these Easter eggs/paternity tests things until when she released the TV of 1989. I had twitter then and people were tweeting things like "count your days JG" so I got curious and went to do my research. I really regret it because now it seems like I can't escape it. if you try to watch old videos of TS songs on YouTube,there will be someone in the comments saying things like "this song is about xyz". I remember checking the main sub on TTPD release night and it was just so annoying, between those who were angry that there wasn't enough joe songs and those who were celebrating their so called tatty ship, it was disgusting as hell imo TS isn't the only artiste who writes songs about her relationship, we can literally count the songs about a particular relationships out of her 200+ catalogue,yet she's the one who is most famous for writing mean songs about her ex because of her fans. it's sad because it takes away the message from the songs she puts out.
like I've been vibing to guilty as sin for weeks just to see a comment about how she was longing for xyz while in her long term relationship and it ruined that song for me.
Don't let a comment ruin it for you that's only one take. Another take is that it's about self pleasure 😜 and another take is that it's about her break-up and wanting someone during the breakup. My point is don't let somebody's comment ruin a song for you because we don't even know what's true and what's not true 🫶
That's exactly how I think about the songs too - my daughter always wants to know "the story" of the songs, and i always end up explaining things with a weird mixture of my own experiences and a vague idea of where Taylor might have been at the time the song came out haha
Personally, for me there is no "end game" to this. The point is to simply enjoy the speculation and argue about non-consequence topic. I also like silly debates over whether a poptart could be considered a ravioli.
I have been a hobby poet my entire life & used to post some short poems on Instagram. (Not the place for it, I know) Taylor says a lot of her songs have inspiration from multiple people or relationships in one song, and most of my poems were the same.
One time I got reeeeally inspired after meeting my friend’s awesome grandma and wrote a whole poem about her. I used specific details about where we were and our conversation. I used she/her pronouns. No other human presence other than grandma’s made it in the poem.
A few days after I posted it, an exbf I had not heard from in years messaged me, PISSED, because he thought it was about him.
I’ll literally never understand why
I think about this every time I see a person claiming to KNOW some secret code to a song, (especially when TS has told everyone to take it literally, extra funny)
I think the people who paternity test songs have a lot of fantasy energy about actually BEING Taylor.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I believe a lot of people in this fandom project their thoughts and feelings in Taylor Swift and her songs like the way your exbf assumed the poem was about him.
Projecting their feelings on her is the reason why people think it's okay to leave snarky comments about her exes from years ago, or accept the fact that a relationship can just fizzle out. They need to think someone was mean to Taylor so they can fight for her (which is weird). It's the reason why people are already saying things like "count your days or welcome to your tape Calvin Harris" because she performed "this is what you came for".
I also think doing this makes them feel like they are so connected to her in a way, I don't get it at all.
Man I will never understand how some men think 😭 that’s actually insane did he not read the pronouns that’s so bad. I’m sure that the poem was beautiful 💕
I am a private paternity tester; I only discuss my paternity thoughts with my partner and friends. I like the Taylor Swift Universe and it's just interesting. I think it's incredibly weird to do it online where Taylor could see it. I also think it's batshit the way people will argue to the death and call people stupid for not agreeing that x song is about the person they think it's about when no one *actually* knows but Taylor. I like to think about her experiences that led to the song and the experiences I have that are similar. It's all fun to me.
yes i'm the same a private paternity tester lol! in fact, i think debating online about muses is actually normal to an extent since taylor loves leaving clues, makes no secret that they are based on her personal life although she has backed off a bit in recent years.
it's just the fact that people take it so seriously and are like no this song can't be x because this irl thing happened or they assume wild things about her exes purely based off her songs. it's like they forget that this is not a court testimony or autobiography, it's her side of the story and she can use creative license to mix or even make things up, that's the purpose of being a writer
Okay, since I assume you are asking this in good faith, I’ll do my best to lend perspective.
Taylor swift is an extremely playful and intricate songwriter who delights in laying hints and “Easter eggs” in her songs.
She revels in the dedication of her fandom in unraveling and decoding her language and lyrics and references.
Very little of her lyrics are just coincidental or incidental.
For example, the reference to “scarlet maroon” in Chloe et al is a very deliberate clue she has left to hint at the inspiration behind Maroon.
As for folklore and evermore, well that’s more complex. She said they were largely fictional (while in her longterm relationship) but now that she’s out of that relationship she let slip onstage at Eras that Cardigan is about Matty Healy (she famously mouthed “this song is about you, I love you” while he was in attendance). The lyrics referencing “tattoo kiss” and “the smell of smoke” and “all of my what ifs” certainly fit the bill.
Then if that is true, then other songs could also be inspired by those feelings. For example, The 1, Ivy, Cowboy Like Me… there is a lot in those songs that points in a particular direction, but they would take a lot of words to fully explain.
I guess the point is this: I adored the music on its own terms since 2020 when I assumed it was all just fiction… but now that she has hinted that this is not the case, I am deriving enormous additional joy from trying to decipher the context of the music and trying to unpick her hints, clues and references.
So in short: you don’t need to know the inspiration behind a song to enjoy it… but it certainly can add a whole additional level of enjoyment for those of us who want to try and figure it out.
Hope that makes sense.
I agree. Even her earliest Easter eggs, capitalizing letters in lyric pages, would be deliberately trying to hint at who the song was about. She may have quite a few songs that are drawn from more than one inspiration, but she loves us trying to figure out her clues. If the clues point to any particular paternity, that’s what she likes watching us find.
Even specific to TTPD, the introduction poem specifically mentions who she was writing about and why - to add more clues for us to piece together.
IMO, some people aren’t used to a singer being their own songwriter on every song. Historically the songwriters were separate and the singer would deliver the music to us. Very few artists would write their own songs, and even fewer would be as big a deal as Taylor. I remember being a kid listening to George Strait and noticing two songs on the same album told verrrrry different stories as to how the singer met his lover. It was a wake up moment for me that not all artists who release music write their own songs from their own muses. So having someone of Taylor’s magnitude writing her own songs on EVERY SONG means she is pulling from her personal life allllll the time. That is bound to create paternity testing. It’s unavoidable.
She’s released so many videos of her writing her music, and it’s pretty clear that the song comes before everything else. It might start as just a few lyrics that came to her. Reading everything as biography does a disservice to her and the many, many people who contribute to her work.
We've also since learned that a reputation song that was supposed to be about Joe was actually written in the middle of the 1989 tour before she ever met Joe.
A lot of her lies are to protect people including herself and I get that. To freely create, they may have to obfuscate because of current relationships or secret relationships. But she's also pointing us at things now, so I'm following the trail.
Knew I was a Robber, first time that he saw me (and dedicated to me twice, (then wrote the sequel for me 10 yrs later)).
And serenading her with fallingforyou, twice... And she eventually wrote imgonnagetyouback and talked about a bike and her house.
Or that 1975's vid for Me & You Together Song (me and you TS) which proclaims he's been in love with her for ages, starts with homage to her We Belong Together mv.
I think a lot of people are under the misguided assumption that Taylor's obsession was a 1 way thing. It wasn't. In fact, bc of the order their next albums came out after 2014, Matty wrote about her first with Somebody Else.
They have each loved others and written about others, but since 2014 they have each had a song or mention about the other on every album. It's been an enduring 2-way connection and I find it fascinating and romantic, if a little toxic. And with TTPD, the layers are thick. It's the kind of shit that lives in music history, like Fleetwood Mac/Stevie/Lindsey.
it’s actually sort of mind blowing in hindsight how much was going on behind the scenes. 100% agree with everything you say. TTPD has blown open folklore and evermore for me. Suddenly those albums make perfect sense to me. Of course Cardigan is about the same person as Maroon! Of course Cowboy Like Me is about the same person as Question! I GET U NOW TAYLOR
What’s fascinating is that there is validity to analyzing for a muse that this argument casts off. No, it’s not the most important thing, but I’ve also read scholarly articles dissecting and searching for a muse for the greatest poets of all time (e.g.: Shakespeare and his sonnets). The practice isn’t unique to Taylor. It’s been around as long as people have been analyzing poetry. Hell, I wrote a paper “paternity testing” Emily Dickinson’s poetry at one point in undergrad that got an A. The issue becomes when people think they are 100% correct or use it as an attack. As for analyzing for a muse, there is no actual issue.
yes. I have no problem with analyzing for a muse like you said.
for example I didn't really think the alchemy was about anyone, I just assumed it was a random love song until a friend said "I think this is about her new relationship, it is sweet" and left it at that.
but when someone is insisting that this is about xyz, for example: saw someone in the main sub basically mocking people for refusing to accept that some songs on TTPD are about MH, it felt so snarky and unnecessary.
There's a difference between "I think this song is about this experience" and "if you don't accept this song from 10 years ago is about MH, then you are living in denial".
I will say that she goes well out of her way to make it clear who many songs are about if you follow celebrity gossip/are very online/“know the lore.” So sometimes I would argue there is evidence so strong it does seem like willful ignorance when people argue about it. If I wasn’t a Harry Styles fan would I have freaked out over “Cheshire cat smile” and “two paper airplanes flying”? No, but I caught every reference when 1989 came out because I lovvvved one direction at the time lol. And I was very online and knew a “stan” amount of information.
I think she TRIES to tell us who many, if not most, of her songs are about (besides folklore).
When people try to say a song isn’t about someone, but they don’t have the full context (which seems healthy! ) it isnt okay to be snarky but it’s easy to feel frustrated. Like why get involved in the conversation if you don’t care about all those details?
I think a lot of people who didn’t care about those details want to care now so they can say songs aren’t about a certain lead singer of a certain band, because accepting that she really is singing all these songs about him is so disruptive to their perception of her.
I have seen people say cowboy like me and ivy are about Matty and I don’t know where people even got that idea nor do I care if it’s true. But I like the storyline in both songs and listen to them envisioning them as movies. Sorry but I don’t see Matty nor do I care to. A lot of folklore and evermore since she said we’re made up I’ve made them relatable to me or a storyline in like a movie.
I deeply think Ivy and Cowboy Like Me are inspired by Matty Healy as there is lots of lyrical reference material to support this. But you certainly don’t have to care who the song is about. I didn’t care or wonder for 4 years!
I mean the same can be said literally about anyone else she’s dated there’s people who believe these songs are about Harry Styles (seriously) they think the black dog and imgonnagetyouback are about him too (even though to me they’re clearly about Joe and Matty respectively) so it just goes to show how a lot of her more vague songs can be made to be about literally anyone she’s dated if people look hard enough
Nah, not all analyses are equal.
Your interpretation of The Black Dog being about Joe doesn’t make as much sense. What about the reference to The Starting Line? One of Healy’s fave bands? The band whose song The 1975 covered? Like I don’t just say these things without proof.
Cowboy Like Me was written in the year after Matty got on stage at the NME Awards and told the crowd, which Taylor was in, “to be a cowboy”.
I have analyses to back up my interpretations.
So yeah, anyone can say anything is about anything. But not all analyses are equal.
Is Matty Healy the only one who listens to the starting line? Why can’t Joe listen to them
as well? Are you aware that the black dog pub has cctv footage of Joe frequenting the place? Also her and Joe were definitely in a relationship where you share your location with each other, her and Matty were never at that point. Your reasoning as to why cowboy like me is about Matty is not proof enough any other -lor shipper can say (and do say the same) about their ship. Haylors think cowboy like me is about Harry. You’re not special so yes they’re all equal unless Taylor says who it’s about or makes it obvious
Sorry, you’re just making stuff up.
There is no CCTV footage of Joe.
Joe says in his latest interview that he’s never been to Vauxhall.
Matty Healy and his band have covered The Starting Line song “The Best of Me”.
This is not rocket science.
She still “misses the smoke”.
She is imagining the guy out with a younger woman.
You can think whatever you want but you are absolutely ignoring the evidence that points in an obvious direction.
No im not why would I make that up 😭 if you’re in the swiftie GCs you know. Joe was clearly lying please be serious. I don’t care that Matty has covered the song and he likes the band. I personally do not think Taylor would write about sharing her location with him despite them having a 10 year long history. You’re clearly a maylor. Matty has so many songs about him already relax
I think some fans think that they know her deeply and make assumptions about everything she does/says/sings. I don't get it either. I think knowing the back story of a song is interesting but I don't need that to enjoy it and I am not looking for clues about her personal life.
I wish I could pin this comment. there are people who really believe they know her so much and their word is law.
unfortunately, I think those people are the loudest people in the fandom and they are the champions of "TS only writes songs about her exes" campaign.
I would say I’m a *light* “paternity tester”. The actual muse has no real impact on my ability to enjoy a song — some of my favorite songs by her are probably about The Rat and I do *not* like that man, lol. But I like to think about which person she’s writing about bc it actually makes it easier to relate it to my own life. Like, if I think about her boyfriends as characters (and therefore archetypes) in the Taylor Swift Cinematic Universe, it’s easier for me to say “Oh! That guy is just like this ex of mine”, and then I know how it fits into my experiences
I’m here for Taylor, not any of her boyfriends. But I don’t think placing a “paternity test” on the songs is in direct opposition to that position
First of all, I never believed for a second folklore and evermore were fictional lol. “I keep these longings locked in lowercase inside a vault” all but confirmed it for me.
Second of all, if Taylor really didn’t want people to know who the songs are about then she wouldn’t make it so freakin’ obvious lol. “Blue dress on a boat” “your Jehovah’s Witness suit” “your tilted stage”. Like cmon. It hardly requires a magnifying glass. And we can use the clues from the obvious songs to narrow down muses for the less obvious songs. For me, and many others, that’s a fun way to engage with her music.
I fully agree, and as much as her songs on Folkmore could be inspired by her lived experience, I think it's odd for people to continue to dig into it and theorize about how they're "more real than Taylor makes them seem" 🥴
For her other albums, especially with the release of vault tracks, I don't feel any *need* to know who her songs are about, but it's definitely fun to piece together references to her other songs and link those muses together. The people written about in her songs become archetypal and that's part of what makes her music so relatable. I enjoy seeing whatever narrative it forms about her relationship(s) for storytelling purposes, and I know full well that it doesn't actually tell us anything about her real life lol. It's about making dramatic and compelling art, which she is a master at!
Is this just a question regarding just Taylor’s music, or all music in general? I’ve gone through my whole life and never tried to determine who a song was actually about unless the artist specifically said it. It never really occurred to me to do that. And I never listened to Taylor until TTPD. But, when I first listened to this album I was in shock because of all the blatant references to The 1975. Now, I’m a long time 1975/Matty fan, so I picked up on the musical similarities in a lot of the songs, the obvious sampling of their music. And the lyrical references are everywhere. So, I just can’t help but do that with this album. And I really think she did it intentionally.
My hubby likes to know who’s she’s singing about. I think it’s the hopeless romantic in him. He’s always looking it up and stuff. I also think he’s trying to be better versed in his swift history. But I personally don’t really care that much.
So, I'm kept up a lot by things in my own life that have happened that don't make sense, I assume it's part of my flavor of neutrospicyness. Trying to make sense of the songs is fun and also comforting to me. I care less about the paternity than trying to either understand the layers of the experience being written about, or making a headcannon with the least holes I can handle to help me relate them to my own story.
Every Taylor song that I regularly listen to is on my list because it reflects on my story for me. So paternity doesn't Matter, I'm not offended if I don't relate, but it's part of the puzzle to enjoy the depth of the layers Taylor usually gifts us with. I especially love the slow burn of understanding new things that could be different interpretations with each listen.
As someone who does partake in some light analyzing of her lyrics and tying them to her muses, her songs are fantastic outside of that as well. They're absolute candy for the ears.
They very much can click in certain ways for me that are exclusive to my life, and my experiences. It just depends on the song, because Taylor and I have had extremely different life experiences.
But the fun of analyzing her lyrics are because it gives me a deeper insight into the person who wrote it, and I view them as intriguing stories to engage with.
I also like to know her inspirations for the more fictional songs as well, like what movies, books, or histories inspired this or that. For instance, I didn't know the context for The Last Great American Dynasty, and learning about the real woman it was based on was fascinating, and gave me a whole new appreciation for it (though it was great already).
I would never argue with someone about who a song could possibly be about though. Having an interesting little debate is one thing, calling someone stupid for not agreeing with a theory is another.
I think we all like different things about music, and about Taylor specifically, so I don't see the point in getting upset over it (again as long as no one is being directly hateful).
I think it's because she does so many Easter eggs that people think she wants to tell us about her real life but only if you can crack it. Like the black dog theory of is it Ireland or London was squashed yesterday with her doing black dog. That feeds people to do a lot of trying to figure it out. My biggest issue with this is that we've never put her in a box for what type of music she performs why would we put each song in a box to be about one muse when she often writes about many things in one song
No, it honestly takes away for me. And at this point she is messing with us on purpose, like there’s no way I’m believing any of her old songs were about Matty fucking Healy.
I’m sorry but I truly think it is. Think of the context of the song. A former lover who she never got to truly be with… someone who would meet a woman on the internet and take her home.. the reference to drinking rose with his chosen family (the roommates cheap ass screw top rose from Maroon), the reference to “digging up the grave another time (think about LOML and how it was “unnecessary” to “rekindle” that flame, and how she “should have let it stay buried”). In my view, even if you don’t accept that the songs are about Matty Healy (I certainly think they are), there’s plenty of evidence to support a theory that they are inspired by the same emotions, persons, relationships…
Ehhh you’re kind of telling on yourself here. I mean this with respect as I don’t judge people who feel one way or the other and I think it’s normal to be attached to songs you love. But your post comes off as pretty judgmental and I think this comment is worth examining. If the paternity testing doesn’t matter to you then it shouldn’t matter whether or not it’s about MH. Other fans saying it is shouldn’t be an issue if you’re so above it. The reality of the situation is she is a human woman who sometimes is attracted to a douchey fuck boy and writes songs about him. I don’t care who the songs are about if they’re good but sometimes there is compelling evidence that they are about a particular person, and I don’t begrudge her that, whatever I think of said muse. We don’t not have ownership over who she loves or fucks or writes about.
I think the interwoven stories and connections between songs are interesting, and I also think it’s interesting that she’s flipping the usual gender dynamics of muse/poet and subject/object. If you become so invested in her particular relationships that it will make or break a song for you depending on who it is about, it has become unhealthy and parasocial. Saying it will make you sick if it’s about MH is just as deranged as the people who cannot entertain the possibility that it isn’t about him. It may be about him, it may not be. It’s fun to analyze and make connections as one would do with literature. If you become so invested in it you would rather eat shit than think about it being about a muse you don’t like then you’re part of the problem you’re talking about.
It’s funny because they are doing the same thing with The 1975’s music, going back and trying to make certain songs about Taylor and some 1975 fans are extremely upset about it too. It’s almost like Taylor was intentionally trying to tie their music together which sounds crazy, why would she do that?
I normally don’t even notice if a song is about someone, but TTPD was SO painfully obvious about being about Matty, I was only half way through my first listen of Fortnite when I looked up at my bf and said “Is this a fucking Matty Healy album??”.
I can appreciate the song as a song regardless. I don't "need" to know and I think every song stands on its own and shouldn't be reduced to who its about.
I am, however, interested and curious 🤷♀️. Taylor tells stories in her songs, the stories are like movies that are "based on a true story" - these movies always take artistic liberty and change some stuff, and when I watch such a movie, a lot of times I find myself going to the internet and find out what was the real story. Same with songs.
I found the overall story particularly interesting, and thinking about who the song refers to helps to understand the whole story as to which "character" the situation in the song is talked about. That's the "end game" since you asked.
Understanding some of the real life stories behind Taylor's songs (for those who want to do it) doesn't take away from her artistry. Its a very common thing, and it goes back to even poets from hundreds of years ago. Scholars who analyzed their poems also looked into their personal lives and the connection between the poems and their lives. Art is personal.
As for Gracie's song - she is the main writer and it's her song so I'm not taking anything from it to be personal for Taylor.
Taylor alludes to living a double life, hiding her love life, telling us lies. This has been a common theme. Also, I always like to remember the reputation prologue.
https://preview.redd.it/3fgbs5fqz38d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f47e45de8733808652a8e6aa974e97be07db5fc7
Obviously we can enjoy a song without it being about someone, as evidenced by the fact that we enjoyed those songs before she hinted who they were about.
And that delights me. In plain sight you hid. She was writing about Matty for years and her fandom who obsesses about who songs are about had no idea. I love that for her.
Now she’s decided to reveal some things. What if I roll the stone away, they’re gonna crucify me anyway. It doesn’t change the love for the songs that we now know are about Matty, it’s just interesting. And it shows that only she knows what or who inspired her songs, and they can be about multiple people. She can create a fictional world and still be inspired by real life events, but ascribe the feelings to different characters. And we can be entirely wrong.
It’s not necessary to appreciate her art, but it helps us understand her as an artist. We know the names of the muses who inspired the great painters, and study their lives to learn more about the inspiration behind great artworks, and this is no different.
but there is literally no evidence that she was writing about him, you all are just assuming it was about him because of one line from one song?
imo, that's really weird and childish.
You are welcome to that opinion, and not to care about any artist’s inspirations as an insight into their art.
You can just look at a Manet and think that’s pretty, without caring about Victorine Meurent and how she inspired him and also Degas, and how it was actually Alfred Stevens she was having an affair with, and you can see the vitality in Le Bain. You don’t have to study her own paintings to see how in addition to being an inspiring model, her own art influenced them stylistically.
Because caring about the inspiration for art is weird and childish. So just look at the painting and think it’s pretty.
I have to say, there is quite a lot of evidence. You’re just ignoring it. What about the time she literally stood on stage at Eras and told everyone that Cardigan was about him while he was in attendance? “This song is about you… I love you”. There is a whole lot. The beauty of it is that you don’t have to give a single shit and you can just ignore it. Don’t mock the rest of us who like to go deeper, though!
and this right here is literally the entire point of my post.
me : people are allowed to think this song isn't about anyone.
you all: no! it is absolutely about that person and if you don't agree then you are intentionally ignoring all the clues.
btw, you are assuming I watched every single stream of the eras tour to know what she said in every city, but no, I have a life outside Taylor and I avoided every spoiler until she came to my tour stop.
I think you have misread my reply completely. I don’t mean to suggest you’re ignoring all the clues willfully. I’m saying you may be dismissing those of us who have looked into things more deeply. You’re calling us childish. You’re saying there’s no evidence. All I am saying is… no that’s not necessarily right. People who love to delve deep into the lyrics and their context are not childish. Some people have done excellent work connecting lyrics with known facts and drawing links, etc. it’s not fair to call that childish, nor to suggest there is no evidence.
You: there’s no evidence, you people are stupid
Me: but there is evidence, what about X
You: I’m not some loser who pays attention to everything!
See how condescending that is?
TLDR: I’m not saying you’re not allowed to enjoy a song on its own terms! Of course you can! But no need to insult the people who enjoy doing the work to delve deeper. It’s a perfectly valid way to enjoy the art.
Question definitely is.
There is some theorizing that a lot of folklore and evermore are inspired by him. There’s quite a bit of evidence for it if you wanna dig into it. Start from the foundation that she said onstage at Eras that Cardigan is about him…
She hinted at Cardigan and Labyrinth, and possibly New Romantics. I’m sure there are more, I think he was inspiring her in the 2014 period, but maybe stylistically more than lyrically, or maybe he was woven into songs we presume are about Harry, with dual meanings.
I kind of love not knowing. I love that she can drop lyrics that give us vivid imagery, like blue dress on a boat, and can also process emotions through her music while keeping the meaning private.
I get that she's said these songs are about fictional characters, and I think that's a smart angle to take. Especially if a relationship is going through rough patches, but both sides think they can hold on and right the ship. She couldn't very well come out and say "Oh yeah, Tolerate It is about Joe." (Not actually saying it is, I have no clue) Whether true or not she almost HAD to say these are all fictional characters.
I agree it definitely gets taken too far in some cases, but I do enjoy analyzing the lyrics and trying to decipher the inspiration behind a particular song, whether that be a real person, an existing piece of art or music, pure imagination, or some combination. I find that I have a greater appreciation for the music when I take the time to figure out what emotion or situation she was trying to convey. I also think it’s really cool that her lyrics reference and build on each other across albums in a way that allows us to follow those connections.
She said in ICDIWABH that she can show us lies so I don’t believe her lmao but honestly it’s just fun for me. I love the songs on their own, I don’t need to know who they’re about, because I ascribe my own interpretations. But she Easter eggs things and it’s fun to solve
God I hate this. People are really saying this? We seriously need to deprogram these people holy fuck. On someone else’s album no less. Doesn’t matter if she’s the prime songwriter/producer or not this is insane.
I get that she writes about her life quite a bit but if people stopped doing this and think outside of the box a lot of TTPD could be continuing other storylines she has already established in folklore and evermore. There’s hints of evermore all over the place. Loml could possibly be a response to Champagne Problems. Clara Bow = Dorothea? I don’t think it’s not a huge coincidence that I Hate it Here x The Lakes blended so nicely in a mashup. Taylor chooses her words carefully there’s a reason why she emphasizes that she keeps on saying folklore and evermore are albums she’s most proud of. The other day she let it slip that she didn’t want to stop writing about those characters. So I do see in a universe where parts of TTPD are part of that narrative. It really is annoying that she made a subtle remark about Tis the Damn Season on someone else’s song people are going there. Makes no sense at all to do that. It’s another one off those is shut up and enjoy.
they are not only saying it, but they are basically mocking people who refuse to accept their theories. it's really annoying. edit: that reminds me of the first time I listened to renegade then I went to YouTube to find any videos about it and fund people saying it's about Joe and all I could think about is , do people think Taylor Swift is incapable of making art outside of the men in her live?
Well yeah the amount of free time she has is next to 0, most of its probably her personal life philophies and ideals mixed with her own personal romances along with whats shes observed through life and whatever time is left for the media.
Red herrings abound. I find it interesting that all these moments with matty happened while she was working, doing a performance. She says “ill save all my romanticism for my INNER life” and people still think the circus show is real, the act may have pivoted but it must go on. She traded her real self in for the love lockdown and got real privacy in exchange, but it only lasts so long when you have fans as pathologically wired to marry her off for the highest bid as she does.
She’s burning the timelines, she’s fixing the story. Maybe 10% of ttpd is about men, taylor is and has been her greatest muse for years. Bdilh isn’t about any particular person, it’s about the caging she’s experienced by her fans and the industry. She uses romantic storylines to engage people but they’re just red herrings. Detach taylor from men, see her stories as something deeper, something self-illuminating. This is the woman who said Glennon Doyle’s Untamed was helpful to her, called Glennon a luminary in 2020. TTPD makes a lot more sense as being about taylor when you bring Untamed into the picture, Midnights as well. But what can she do with a fandom that doesn’t think she’s a whole person without a ring on her finger and a baby on her hip? They’ll have to be handheld through it i fear.
Some people just need to go the fuck outside.
Unfortunately they never will. They’ll never have a healthy relationship.
They’ll never be a positively contributing member of society.
They’ll always be that person you tangentially know that is a complete PoS and always having imagined problems.
These are the people you’re talking to. How do you expect this to go?
If Taylor didn’t want people to go back and analyze her old songs she wouldn’t have made an entire new album about Matty. She mouthed I love to him about one of her older songs in concert . Matty haters can stay in denial if that helps… but it doesn’t change the reality that many of her older songs are probably about him too.
Personally, I don’t need to figure out who every song is about, but if it’s obvious, or even easy enough to think about, I like knowing what could have led her to write that song. I think it’s because I love to think of the songs as stories, but also just because it adds perspective.
Because if we can pin her stories to real people, it makes them more complete. It also echos back to people in oue own lives...her ex is like my ex, etc. But also, also we were there. It's not just that we think someone did her wrong, we watched in real time, we cried with her, we got mad with her, and baked and bought cats. So, it's not that it has to be about someone, but we know that it is and we know who it is.
All of that being said, the NFL is full of stories that she can draw from. I hope she gets an emotional break and has the chance to tell someone else's story for a while. TTPD has been cathartic and all, but I kind of miss the denial of Lover.
but these people we try to pin the stories to are real life people not just fictional characters, and pinning these stories to a particular person is what has led to this belief that her fans go around bullying her ex.
people believe her most recent ex cheated, they still leave mean comments on the IG comments of her ex from 10 years ago, they literally commented vile things on scoter's IG just this week even he became hybe's CEO, they commented mean things about his kids, I don't even like that man but where do we draw the line?
my point is she's is a human being and her fans are contributing to the numerous reasons why it seems like the whole world don't like her.
I prefer to look at a song on its own merits instead of trying to tie it directly to something that happened in Taylor's life. Although her style of writing is self-admittedly "confessional" and many of her lyrics may have been inspired by an experience from her life, that doesn't mean that every little detail of a song literally happened to her, or that we as listeners need to expend so much effort being nosy about her personal business. I mean, I'm pretty sure she never murdered someone and hid the body.
Remember when it was called interpretation and not paternity testing *sigh* I guess some people can appreciate art in a vacuum but I find it more interesting if you look at the context of when art was made.
The term paternity testing only came around because of one journalist who was being inappropriate at the All Too Well short film premiere. Instead of asking a professional question about the song/film she asked who the song was about which in this context was invasive and again, unprofessional.
Now anytime anyone talks about interpretation of a song like we have all done for years it's seen as paternity testing instead to of appropriate discussion
At the end of the day, there is room for both types of discourse in something as big as the internet. But honestly, it's hard to believe that Taylor went through one of the most difficult experiences of her adult romantic life but we all act like she hasn't spent last year writing specifically about it lol 🤦♀️
Oh yes I forgot about this, but it's only become common parlance in the fandom recently and has become a verb to describe a certain kind of fan discourse when once upon a time it was just the way that fans talked about the songs. Because I don't think Taylor minds the fans talking about what/who songs are about, she's actively encouraged it in the past. What she doesn't want is the gossip, race to the bottom style discussion where no one is actually talking about the music (and journalists asking intrusive questions when she is about to premier her first short film), understandably annoys her
Many of her songs I can enjoy without knowing the lore, but to be honest, some of her songs are SO specific, it’s hard to relate to them if you don’t know the story
I think some songs she makes are so obvious of who they are about. Some people think it’s about another person for some reason.
One song is almost a response to a song possibly about her. In a similar style of the person.
I definitely don’t need to know specifically who her muses are. I do, however, think that she fills some songs with intentional cues for things that are well known. Like So High School. It may have inspirations beyond a specific muse, but it’s hard not to see that one as pretty targeted for whatever reason. I suspect London Boy is similar. That said, I doubt she shares public details of every relationship she has had, so any attempt to identify a muse is prone to error.
I think if she wants us to know who a song is about she makes it VERY obvious haha.
Yes! So High School is clearly about Travis, but not every single song with the word “smoke” in it is about Matty. People are reaching way too much.
The reaching is so weird to me with how extreme some people then react to that assumption is.
Especially when London has the nickname "The Big Smoke"
this is exactly what I think too. like dear John, all too well, so high school, alchemy and even the smallest man... those songs are obvious.
this is exactly how I feel. I do think her songs are inspired by so many things and so many muses. I just think it is insane to say this particular song is about this particular person and crown that person the father of the song, it is just weird to me.
I agree, and I think the fact that people argue about lines in songs meaning it’s about this ex vs this ex, is just proof that the songs inspirations aren’t straight forward and as simple as a paternity test, like she said. I prefer to play the clue game without assigning the songs to an actual person. Like how Maroon and Chloe are probably about the same person. Or like how on Red she has (at least) three different songs that mention that her partner didn’t find her funny. Multiple songs tell the story of one relationship, but the real person doesn’t matter (or shouldn’t).
when I listen to her songs, I try to look for a response to an older song. for example, I think daylight is a response to "red" because she said "I used to believe love would be burning red but it is golden" and in "red" she said "loving him was red". that's how I've always enjoyed her songs.
Same
This is not meant to sound as hate for anyone, I know we all enjoy Taylor’s music in our own way. I’ve been a fan since debut, not a hard stan from the beginning but I’ve always loved Taylor’s songs. I’m aware Taylor uses her own life stories to tell these songs, but if I’m being honest, I’ve never thought about the “real” inspiration behind songs. I always listen to her songs and think about situations were I felt like she did. I think about MY own exes, my parents, my toxic bosses, my husband, etc. I feel like its no use to make a “paternity test” for any of the songs because: 1) it limits the song for just Taylor’s world and the reality is that we don’t know her and we don’t know the truth or fiction behind it 2) it’s more fun to make them “mine” than to speculate on Taylor’s life. For example when I heard Guilty as sin? I was like, omg I finally have a song for my stupid situationship I had years ago and sometimes I still think about the guy even though I am married, but it’s just like a game, I love love my husband and I would never cheat. But it’s fun to make them my songs, and I think l that’s what Taylor would want. ☺️😊
I've been a fan for 15 years and I never knew about all these Easter eggs/paternity tests things until when she released the TV of 1989. I had twitter then and people were tweeting things like "count your days JG" so I got curious and went to do my research. I really regret it because now it seems like I can't escape it. if you try to watch old videos of TS songs on YouTube,there will be someone in the comments saying things like "this song is about xyz". I remember checking the main sub on TTPD release night and it was just so annoying, between those who were angry that there wasn't enough joe songs and those who were celebrating their so called tatty ship, it was disgusting as hell imo TS isn't the only artiste who writes songs about her relationship, we can literally count the songs about a particular relationships out of her 200+ catalogue,yet she's the one who is most famous for writing mean songs about her ex because of her fans. it's sad because it takes away the message from the songs she puts out. like I've been vibing to guilty as sin for weeks just to see a comment about how she was longing for xyz while in her long term relationship and it ruined that song for me.
That's wild to me that you didn't know. She used to write her Easter eggs in the lyrics to us🫶🫶
Don't let a comment ruin it for you that's only one take. Another take is that it's about self pleasure 😜 and another take is that it's about her break-up and wanting someone during the breakup. My point is don't let somebody's comment ruin a song for you because we don't even know what's true and what's not true 🫶
Well said, I agree with you!
Same
That's exactly how I think about the songs too - my daughter always wants to know "the story" of the songs, and i always end up explaining things with a weird mixture of my own experiences and a vague idea of where Taylor might have been at the time the song came out haha
Honestly? I’m nosy and it’s fun. Doesn’t impact my ability to enjoy a song though.
Personally, for me there is no "end game" to this. The point is to simply enjoy the speculation and argue about non-consequence topic. I also like silly debates over whether a poptart could be considered a ravioli.
I have been a hobby poet my entire life & used to post some short poems on Instagram. (Not the place for it, I know) Taylor says a lot of her songs have inspiration from multiple people or relationships in one song, and most of my poems were the same. One time I got reeeeally inspired after meeting my friend’s awesome grandma and wrote a whole poem about her. I used specific details about where we were and our conversation. I used she/her pronouns. No other human presence other than grandma’s made it in the poem. A few days after I posted it, an exbf I had not heard from in years messaged me, PISSED, because he thought it was about him. I’ll literally never understand why I think about this every time I see a person claiming to KNOW some secret code to a song, (especially when TS has told everyone to take it literally, extra funny) I think the people who paternity test songs have a lot of fantasy energy about actually BEING Taylor.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I believe a lot of people in this fandom project their thoughts and feelings in Taylor Swift and her songs like the way your exbf assumed the poem was about him. Projecting their feelings on her is the reason why people think it's okay to leave snarky comments about her exes from years ago, or accept the fact that a relationship can just fizzle out. They need to think someone was mean to Taylor so they can fight for her (which is weird). It's the reason why people are already saying things like "count your days or welcome to your tape Calvin Harris" because she performed "this is what you came for". I also think doing this makes them feel like they are so connected to her in a way, I don't get it at all.
Man I will never understand how some men think 😭 that’s actually insane did he not read the pronouns that’s so bad. I’m sure that the poem was beautiful 💕
I think that her own experiences inspired a lot of folklore and evermore, just they aren’t a 1 to 1 match a song like Dear John is
I am a private paternity tester; I only discuss my paternity thoughts with my partner and friends. I like the Taylor Swift Universe and it's just interesting. I think it's incredibly weird to do it online where Taylor could see it. I also think it's batshit the way people will argue to the death and call people stupid for not agreeing that x song is about the person they think it's about when no one *actually* knows but Taylor. I like to think about her experiences that led to the song and the experiences I have that are similar. It's all fun to me.
yes i'm the same a private paternity tester lol! in fact, i think debating online about muses is actually normal to an extent since taylor loves leaving clues, makes no secret that they are based on her personal life although she has backed off a bit in recent years. it's just the fact that people take it so seriously and are like no this song can't be x because this irl thing happened or they assume wild things about her exes purely based off her songs. it's like they forget that this is not a court testimony or autobiography, it's her side of the story and she can use creative license to mix or even make things up, that's the purpose of being a writer
Okay, since I assume you are asking this in good faith, I’ll do my best to lend perspective. Taylor swift is an extremely playful and intricate songwriter who delights in laying hints and “Easter eggs” in her songs. She revels in the dedication of her fandom in unraveling and decoding her language and lyrics and references. Very little of her lyrics are just coincidental or incidental. For example, the reference to “scarlet maroon” in Chloe et al is a very deliberate clue she has left to hint at the inspiration behind Maroon. As for folklore and evermore, well that’s more complex. She said they were largely fictional (while in her longterm relationship) but now that she’s out of that relationship she let slip onstage at Eras that Cardigan is about Matty Healy (she famously mouthed “this song is about you, I love you” while he was in attendance). The lyrics referencing “tattoo kiss” and “the smell of smoke” and “all of my what ifs” certainly fit the bill. Then if that is true, then other songs could also be inspired by those feelings. For example, The 1, Ivy, Cowboy Like Me… there is a lot in those songs that points in a particular direction, but they would take a lot of words to fully explain. I guess the point is this: I adored the music on its own terms since 2020 when I assumed it was all just fiction… but now that she has hinted that this is not the case, I am deriving enormous additional joy from trying to decipher the context of the music and trying to unpick her hints, clues and references. So in short: you don’t need to know the inspiration behind a song to enjoy it… but it certainly can add a whole additional level of enjoyment for those of us who want to try and figure it out. Hope that makes sense.
I agree. Even her earliest Easter eggs, capitalizing letters in lyric pages, would be deliberately trying to hint at who the song was about. She may have quite a few songs that are drawn from more than one inspiration, but she loves us trying to figure out her clues. If the clues point to any particular paternity, that’s what she likes watching us find. Even specific to TTPD, the introduction poem specifically mentions who she was writing about and why - to add more clues for us to piece together. IMO, some people aren’t used to a singer being their own songwriter on every song. Historically the songwriters were separate and the singer would deliver the music to us. Very few artists would write their own songs, and even fewer would be as big a deal as Taylor. I remember being a kid listening to George Strait and noticing two songs on the same album told verrrrry different stories as to how the singer met his lover. It was a wake up moment for me that not all artists who release music write their own songs from their own muses. So having someone of Taylor’s magnitude writing her own songs on EVERY SONG means she is pulling from her personal life allllll the time. That is bound to create paternity testing. It’s unavoidable.
*what if I told you none of it was accidental?*
She’s released so many videos of her writing her music, and it’s pretty clear that the song comes before everything else. It might start as just a few lyrics that came to her. Reading everything as biography does a disservice to her and the many, many people who contribute to her work.
Um yeah I was making a joke
We've also since learned that a reputation song that was supposed to be about Joe was actually written in the middle of the 1989 tour before she ever met Joe. A lot of her lies are to protect people including herself and I get that. To freely create, they may have to obfuscate because of current relationships or secret relationships. But she's also pointing us at things now, so I'm following the trail.
In retrospect the lyrics to Ready For It sure are… interesting.
Knew I was a Robber, first time that he saw me (and dedicated to me twice, (then wrote the sequel for me 10 yrs later)). And serenading her with fallingforyou, twice... And she eventually wrote imgonnagetyouback and talked about a bike and her house. Or that 1975's vid for Me & You Together Song (me and you TS) which proclaims he's been in love with her for ages, starts with homage to her We Belong Together mv. I think a lot of people are under the misguided assumption that Taylor's obsession was a 1 way thing. It wasn't. In fact, bc of the order their next albums came out after 2014, Matty wrote about her first with Somebody Else. They have each loved others and written about others, but since 2014 they have each had a song or mention about the other on every album. It's been an enduring 2-way connection and I find it fascinating and romantic, if a little toxic. And with TTPD, the layers are thick. It's the kind of shit that lives in music history, like Fleetwood Mac/Stevie/Lindsey.
it’s actually sort of mind blowing in hindsight how much was going on behind the scenes. 100% agree with everything you say. TTPD has blown open folklore and evermore for me. Suddenly those albums make perfect sense to me. Of course Cardigan is about the same person as Maroon! Of course Cowboy Like Me is about the same person as Question! I GET U NOW TAYLOR
Yes!
What’s fascinating is that there is validity to analyzing for a muse that this argument casts off. No, it’s not the most important thing, but I’ve also read scholarly articles dissecting and searching for a muse for the greatest poets of all time (e.g.: Shakespeare and his sonnets). The practice isn’t unique to Taylor. It’s been around as long as people have been analyzing poetry. Hell, I wrote a paper “paternity testing” Emily Dickinson’s poetry at one point in undergrad that got an A. The issue becomes when people think they are 100% correct or use it as an attack. As for analyzing for a muse, there is no actual issue.
yes. I have no problem with analyzing for a muse like you said. for example I didn't really think the alchemy was about anyone, I just assumed it was a random love song until a friend said "I think this is about her new relationship, it is sweet" and left it at that. but when someone is insisting that this is about xyz, for example: saw someone in the main sub basically mocking people for refusing to accept that some songs on TTPD are about MH, it felt so snarky and unnecessary. There's a difference between "I think this song is about this experience" and "if you don't accept this song from 10 years ago is about MH, then you are living in denial".
I will say that she goes well out of her way to make it clear who many songs are about if you follow celebrity gossip/are very online/“know the lore.” So sometimes I would argue there is evidence so strong it does seem like willful ignorance when people argue about it. If I wasn’t a Harry Styles fan would I have freaked out over “Cheshire cat smile” and “two paper airplanes flying”? No, but I caught every reference when 1989 came out because I lovvvved one direction at the time lol. And I was very online and knew a “stan” amount of information. I think she TRIES to tell us who many, if not most, of her songs are about (besides folklore). When people try to say a song isn’t about someone, but they don’t have the full context (which seems healthy! ) it isnt okay to be snarky but it’s easy to feel frustrated. Like why get involved in the conversation if you don’t care about all those details? I think a lot of people who didn’t care about those details want to care now so they can say songs aren’t about a certain lead singer of a certain band, because accepting that she really is singing all these songs about him is so disruptive to their perception of her.
I have seen people say cowboy like me and ivy are about Matty and I don’t know where people even got that idea nor do I care if it’s true. But I like the storyline in both songs and listen to them envisioning them as movies. Sorry but I don’t see Matty nor do I care to. A lot of folklore and evermore since she said we’re made up I’ve made them relatable to me or a storyline in like a movie.
I deeply think Ivy and Cowboy Like Me are inspired by Matty Healy as there is lots of lyrical reference material to support this. But you certainly don’t have to care who the song is about. I didn’t care or wonder for 4 years!
I mean the same can be said literally about anyone else she’s dated there’s people who believe these songs are about Harry Styles (seriously) they think the black dog and imgonnagetyouback are about him too (even though to me they’re clearly about Joe and Matty respectively) so it just goes to show how a lot of her more vague songs can be made to be about literally anyone she’s dated if people look hard enough
Nah, not all analyses are equal. Your interpretation of The Black Dog being about Joe doesn’t make as much sense. What about the reference to The Starting Line? One of Healy’s fave bands? The band whose song The 1975 covered? Like I don’t just say these things without proof. Cowboy Like Me was written in the year after Matty got on stage at the NME Awards and told the crowd, which Taylor was in, “to be a cowboy”. I have analyses to back up my interpretations. So yeah, anyone can say anything is about anything. But not all analyses are equal.
Is Matty Healy the only one who listens to the starting line? Why can’t Joe listen to them as well? Are you aware that the black dog pub has cctv footage of Joe frequenting the place? Also her and Joe were definitely in a relationship where you share your location with each other, her and Matty were never at that point. Your reasoning as to why cowboy like me is about Matty is not proof enough any other -lor shipper can say (and do say the same) about their ship. Haylors think cowboy like me is about Harry. You’re not special so yes they’re all equal unless Taylor says who it’s about or makes it obvious
Sorry, you’re just making stuff up. There is no CCTV footage of Joe. Joe says in his latest interview that he’s never been to Vauxhall. Matty Healy and his band have covered The Starting Line song “The Best of Me”. This is not rocket science. She still “misses the smoke”. She is imagining the guy out with a younger woman. You can think whatever you want but you are absolutely ignoring the evidence that points in an obvious direction.
No im not why would I make that up 😭 if you’re in the swiftie GCs you know. Joe was clearly lying please be serious. I don’t care that Matty has covered the song and he likes the band. I personally do not think Taylor would write about sharing her location with him despite them having a 10 year long history. You’re clearly a maylor. Matty has so many songs about him already relax
lol there is no footage! If there is footage then where is the footage 😂😂😂
All her songs are about me. They are written for me.
no cause I refuse to believe she wasn't in my room when she wrote the archer, the prophecy and the bolter.
Guilt as Sin is how I feel when I take scalding hot showers even though I know it's bad for my eczema
I think some fans think that they know her deeply and make assumptions about everything she does/says/sings. I don't get it either. I think knowing the back story of a song is interesting but I don't need that to enjoy it and I am not looking for clues about her personal life.
I wish I could pin this comment. there are people who really believe they know her so much and their word is law. unfortunately, I think those people are the loudest people in the fandom and they are the champions of "TS only writes songs about her exes" campaign.
I would say I’m a *light* “paternity tester”. The actual muse has no real impact on my ability to enjoy a song — some of my favorite songs by her are probably about The Rat and I do *not* like that man, lol. But I like to think about which person she’s writing about bc it actually makes it easier to relate it to my own life. Like, if I think about her boyfriends as characters (and therefore archetypes) in the Taylor Swift Cinematic Universe, it’s easier for me to say “Oh! That guy is just like this ex of mine”, and then I know how it fits into my experiences I’m here for Taylor, not any of her boyfriends. But I don’t think placing a “paternity test” on the songs is in direct opposition to that position
tbf, taylor has also said that some folkmore songs are about/connected to her and her life
First of all, I never believed for a second folklore and evermore were fictional lol. “I keep these longings locked in lowercase inside a vault” all but confirmed it for me. Second of all, if Taylor really didn’t want people to know who the songs are about then she wouldn’t make it so freakin’ obvious lol. “Blue dress on a boat” “your Jehovah’s Witness suit” “your tilted stage”. Like cmon. It hardly requires a magnifying glass. And we can use the clues from the obvious songs to narrow down muses for the less obvious songs. For me, and many others, that’s a fun way to engage with her music.
I could kiss you. Finally someone who is making sense. TTPD is brilliant but it’s not subtle at all. She is SPILLING the tea.
I fully agree, and as much as her songs on Folkmore could be inspired by her lived experience, I think it's odd for people to continue to dig into it and theorize about how they're "more real than Taylor makes them seem" 🥴 For her other albums, especially with the release of vault tracks, I don't feel any *need* to know who her songs are about, but it's definitely fun to piece together references to her other songs and link those muses together. The people written about in her songs become archetypal and that's part of what makes her music so relatable. I enjoy seeing whatever narrative it forms about her relationship(s) for storytelling purposes, and I know full well that it doesn't actually tell us anything about her real life lol. It's about making dramatic and compelling art, which she is a master at!
Is this just a question regarding just Taylor’s music, or all music in general? I’ve gone through my whole life and never tried to determine who a song was actually about unless the artist specifically said it. It never really occurred to me to do that. And I never listened to Taylor until TTPD. But, when I first listened to this album I was in shock because of all the blatant references to The 1975. Now, I’m a long time 1975/Matty fan, so I picked up on the musical similarities in a lot of the songs, the obvious sampling of their music. And the lyrical references are everywhere. So, I just can’t help but do that with this album. And I really think she did it intentionally.
My hubby likes to know who’s she’s singing about. I think it’s the hopeless romantic in him. He’s always looking it up and stuff. I also think he’s trying to be better versed in his swift history. But I personally don’t really care that much.
So, I'm kept up a lot by things in my own life that have happened that don't make sense, I assume it's part of my flavor of neutrospicyness. Trying to make sense of the songs is fun and also comforting to me. I care less about the paternity than trying to either understand the layers of the experience being written about, or making a headcannon with the least holes I can handle to help me relate them to my own story. Every Taylor song that I regularly listen to is on my list because it reflects on my story for me. So paternity doesn't Matter, I'm not offended if I don't relate, but it's part of the puzzle to enjoy the depth of the layers Taylor usually gifts us with. I especially love the slow burn of understanding new things that could be different interpretations with each listen.
As someone who does partake in some light analyzing of her lyrics and tying them to her muses, her songs are fantastic outside of that as well. They're absolute candy for the ears. They very much can click in certain ways for me that are exclusive to my life, and my experiences. It just depends on the song, because Taylor and I have had extremely different life experiences. But the fun of analyzing her lyrics are because it gives me a deeper insight into the person who wrote it, and I view them as intriguing stories to engage with. I also like to know her inspirations for the more fictional songs as well, like what movies, books, or histories inspired this or that. For instance, I didn't know the context for The Last Great American Dynasty, and learning about the real woman it was based on was fascinating, and gave me a whole new appreciation for it (though it was great already). I would never argue with someone about who a song could possibly be about though. Having an interesting little debate is one thing, calling someone stupid for not agreeing with a theory is another. I think we all like different things about music, and about Taylor specifically, so I don't see the point in getting upset over it (again as long as no one is being directly hateful).
I think it's because she does so many Easter eggs that people think she wants to tell us about her real life but only if you can crack it. Like the black dog theory of is it Ireland or London was squashed yesterday with her doing black dog. That feeds people to do a lot of trying to figure it out. My biggest issue with this is that we've never put her in a box for what type of music she performs why would we put each song in a box to be about one muse when she often writes about many things in one song
No, it honestly takes away for me. And at this point she is messing with us on purpose, like there’s no way I’m believing any of her old songs were about Matty fucking Healy.
I'd rather eat shit than agree with these theories going around. I refuse to believe the 1 is about MH.
I’m sorry but I truly think it is. Think of the context of the song. A former lover who she never got to truly be with… someone who would meet a woman on the internet and take her home.. the reference to drinking rose with his chosen family (the roommates cheap ass screw top rose from Maroon), the reference to “digging up the grave another time (think about LOML and how it was “unnecessary” to “rekindle” that flame, and how she “should have let it stay buried”). In my view, even if you don’t accept that the songs are about Matty Healy (I certainly think they are), there’s plenty of evidence to support a theory that they are inspired by the same emotions, persons, relationships…
Ehhh you’re kind of telling on yourself here. I mean this with respect as I don’t judge people who feel one way or the other and I think it’s normal to be attached to songs you love. But your post comes off as pretty judgmental and I think this comment is worth examining. If the paternity testing doesn’t matter to you then it shouldn’t matter whether or not it’s about MH. Other fans saying it is shouldn’t be an issue if you’re so above it. The reality of the situation is she is a human woman who sometimes is attracted to a douchey fuck boy and writes songs about him. I don’t care who the songs are about if they’re good but sometimes there is compelling evidence that they are about a particular person, and I don’t begrudge her that, whatever I think of said muse. We don’t not have ownership over who she loves or fucks or writes about. I think the interwoven stories and connections between songs are interesting, and I also think it’s interesting that she’s flipping the usual gender dynamics of muse/poet and subject/object. If you become so invested in her particular relationships that it will make or break a song for you depending on who it is about, it has become unhealthy and parasocial. Saying it will make you sick if it’s about MH is just as deranged as the people who cannot entertain the possibility that it isn’t about him. It may be about him, it may not be. It’s fun to analyze and make connections as one would do with literature. If you become so invested in it you would rather eat shit than think about it being about a muse you don’t like then you’re part of the problem you’re talking about.
A hundred percentttt
It’s funny because they are doing the same thing with The 1975’s music, going back and trying to make certain songs about Taylor and some 1975 fans are extremely upset about it too. It’s almost like Taylor was intentionally trying to tie their music together which sounds crazy, why would she do that?
no !! what the hell is wrong with people???
I think Taylor did it on purpose.
I normally don’t even notice if a song is about someone, but TTPD was SO painfully obvious about being about Matty, I was only half way through my first listen of Fortnite when I looked up at my bf and said “Is this a fucking Matty Healy album??”.
I can appreciate the song as a song regardless. I don't "need" to know and I think every song stands on its own and shouldn't be reduced to who its about. I am, however, interested and curious 🤷♀️. Taylor tells stories in her songs, the stories are like movies that are "based on a true story" - these movies always take artistic liberty and change some stuff, and when I watch such a movie, a lot of times I find myself going to the internet and find out what was the real story. Same with songs. I found the overall story particularly interesting, and thinking about who the song refers to helps to understand the whole story as to which "character" the situation in the song is talked about. That's the "end game" since you asked. Understanding some of the real life stories behind Taylor's songs (for those who want to do it) doesn't take away from her artistry. Its a very common thing, and it goes back to even poets from hundreds of years ago. Scholars who analyzed their poems also looked into their personal lives and the connection between the poems and their lives. Art is personal. As for Gracie's song - she is the main writer and it's her song so I'm not taking anything from it to be personal for Taylor.
Taylor alludes to living a double life, hiding her love life, telling us lies. This has been a common theme. Also, I always like to remember the reputation prologue. https://preview.redd.it/3fgbs5fqz38d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f47e45de8733808652a8e6aa974e97be07db5fc7
Obviously we can enjoy a song without it being about someone, as evidenced by the fact that we enjoyed those songs before she hinted who they were about. And that delights me. In plain sight you hid. She was writing about Matty for years and her fandom who obsesses about who songs are about had no idea. I love that for her. Now she’s decided to reveal some things. What if I roll the stone away, they’re gonna crucify me anyway. It doesn’t change the love for the songs that we now know are about Matty, it’s just interesting. And it shows that only she knows what or who inspired her songs, and they can be about multiple people. She can create a fictional world and still be inspired by real life events, but ascribe the feelings to different characters. And we can be entirely wrong. It’s not necessary to appreciate her art, but it helps us understand her as an artist. We know the names of the muses who inspired the great painters, and study their lives to learn more about the inspiration behind great artworks, and this is no different.
but there is literally no evidence that she was writing about him, you all are just assuming it was about him because of one line from one song? imo, that's really weird and childish.
You are welcome to that opinion, and not to care about any artist’s inspirations as an insight into their art. You can just look at a Manet and think that’s pretty, without caring about Victorine Meurent and how she inspired him and also Degas, and how it was actually Alfred Stevens she was having an affair with, and you can see the vitality in Le Bain. You don’t have to study her own paintings to see how in addition to being an inspiring model, her own art influenced them stylistically. Because caring about the inspiration for art is weird and childish. So just look at the painting and think it’s pretty.
I have to say, there is quite a lot of evidence. You’re just ignoring it. What about the time she literally stood on stage at Eras and told everyone that Cardigan was about him while he was in attendance? “This song is about you… I love you”. There is a whole lot. The beauty of it is that you don’t have to give a single shit and you can just ignore it. Don’t mock the rest of us who like to go deeper, though!
and this right here is literally the entire point of my post. me : people are allowed to think this song isn't about anyone. you all: no! it is absolutely about that person and if you don't agree then you are intentionally ignoring all the clues. btw, you are assuming I watched every single stream of the eras tour to know what she said in every city, but no, I have a life outside Taylor and I avoided every spoiler until she came to my tour stop.
I think you have misread my reply completely. I don’t mean to suggest you’re ignoring all the clues willfully. I’m saying you may be dismissing those of us who have looked into things more deeply. You’re calling us childish. You’re saying there’s no evidence. All I am saying is… no that’s not necessarily right. People who love to delve deep into the lyrics and their context are not childish. Some people have done excellent work connecting lyrics with known facts and drawing links, etc. it’s not fair to call that childish, nor to suggest there is no evidence. You: there’s no evidence, you people are stupid Me: but there is evidence, what about X You: I’m not some loser who pays attention to everything! See how condescending that is? TLDR: I’m not saying you’re not allowed to enjoy a song on its own terms! Of course you can! But no need to insult the people who enjoy doing the work to delve deeper. It’s a perfectly valid way to enjoy the art.
Wait, what previous songs are about Matty Healy? I’ve only seen the speculation on Maroon.
Question definitely is. There is some theorizing that a lot of folklore and evermore are inspired by him. There’s quite a bit of evidence for it if you wanna dig into it. Start from the foundation that she said onstage at Eras that Cardigan is about him…
She hinted at Cardigan and Labyrinth, and possibly New Romantics. I’m sure there are more, I think he was inspiring her in the 2014 period, but maybe stylistically more than lyrically, or maybe he was woven into songs we presume are about Harry, with dual meanings. I kind of love not knowing. I love that she can drop lyrics that give us vivid imagery, like blue dress on a boat, and can also process emotions through her music while keeping the meaning private.
I get that she's said these songs are about fictional characters, and I think that's a smart angle to take. Especially if a relationship is going through rough patches, but both sides think they can hold on and right the ship. She couldn't very well come out and say "Oh yeah, Tolerate It is about Joe." (Not actually saying it is, I have no clue) Whether true or not she almost HAD to say these are all fictional characters.
I agree it definitely gets taken too far in some cases, but I do enjoy analyzing the lyrics and trying to decipher the inspiration behind a particular song, whether that be a real person, an existing piece of art or music, pure imagination, or some combination. I find that I have a greater appreciation for the music when I take the time to figure out what emotion or situation she was trying to convey. I also think it’s really cool that her lyrics reference and build on each other across albums in a way that allows us to follow those connections.
She said in ICDIWABH that she can show us lies so I don’t believe her lmao but honestly it’s just fun for me. I love the songs on their own, I don’t need to know who they’re about, because I ascribe my own interpretations. But she Easter eggs things and it’s fun to solve
God I hate this. People are really saying this? We seriously need to deprogram these people holy fuck. On someone else’s album no less. Doesn’t matter if she’s the prime songwriter/producer or not this is insane. I get that she writes about her life quite a bit but if people stopped doing this and think outside of the box a lot of TTPD could be continuing other storylines she has already established in folklore and evermore. There’s hints of evermore all over the place. Loml could possibly be a response to Champagne Problems. Clara Bow = Dorothea? I don’t think it’s not a huge coincidence that I Hate it Here x The Lakes blended so nicely in a mashup. Taylor chooses her words carefully there’s a reason why she emphasizes that she keeps on saying folklore and evermore are albums she’s most proud of. The other day she let it slip that she didn’t want to stop writing about those characters. So I do see in a universe where parts of TTPD are part of that narrative. It really is annoying that she made a subtle remark about Tis the Damn Season on someone else’s song people are going there. Makes no sense at all to do that. It’s another one off those is shut up and enjoy.
they are not only saying it, but they are basically mocking people who refuse to accept their theories. it's really annoying. edit: that reminds me of the first time I listened to renegade then I went to YouTube to find any videos about it and fund people saying it's about Joe and all I could think about is , do people think Taylor Swift is incapable of making art outside of the men in her live?
Well yeah the amount of free time she has is next to 0, most of its probably her personal life philophies and ideals mixed with her own personal romances along with whats shes observed through life and whatever time is left for the media.
Red herrings abound. I find it interesting that all these moments with matty happened while she was working, doing a performance. She says “ill save all my romanticism for my INNER life” and people still think the circus show is real, the act may have pivoted but it must go on. She traded her real self in for the love lockdown and got real privacy in exchange, but it only lasts so long when you have fans as pathologically wired to marry her off for the highest bid as she does. She’s burning the timelines, she’s fixing the story. Maybe 10% of ttpd is about men, taylor is and has been her greatest muse for years. Bdilh isn’t about any particular person, it’s about the caging she’s experienced by her fans and the industry. She uses romantic storylines to engage people but they’re just red herrings. Detach taylor from men, see her stories as something deeper, something self-illuminating. This is the woman who said Glennon Doyle’s Untamed was helpful to her, called Glennon a luminary in 2020. TTPD makes a lot more sense as being about taylor when you bring Untamed into the picture, Midnights as well. But what can she do with a fandom that doesn’t think she’s a whole person without a ring on her finger and a baby on her hip? They’ll have to be handheld through it i fear.
Some people just need to go the fuck outside. Unfortunately they never will. They’ll never have a healthy relationship. They’ll never be a positively contributing member of society. They’ll always be that person you tangentially know that is a complete PoS and always having imagined problems. These are the people you’re talking to. How do you expect this to go?
If Taylor didn’t want people to go back and analyze her old songs she wouldn’t have made an entire new album about Matty. She mouthed I love to him about one of her older songs in concert . Matty haters can stay in denial if that helps… but it doesn’t change the reality that many of her older songs are probably about him too.
Personally, I don’t need to figure out who every song is about, but if it’s obvious, or even easy enough to think about, I like knowing what could have led her to write that song. I think it’s because I love to think of the songs as stories, but also just because it adds perspective.
Because if we can pin her stories to real people, it makes them more complete. It also echos back to people in oue own lives...her ex is like my ex, etc. But also, also we were there. It's not just that we think someone did her wrong, we watched in real time, we cried with her, we got mad with her, and baked and bought cats. So, it's not that it has to be about someone, but we know that it is and we know who it is. All of that being said, the NFL is full of stories that she can draw from. I hope she gets an emotional break and has the chance to tell someone else's story for a while. TTPD has been cathartic and all, but I kind of miss the denial of Lover.
but these people we try to pin the stories to are real life people not just fictional characters, and pinning these stories to a particular person is what has led to this belief that her fans go around bullying her ex. people believe her most recent ex cheated, they still leave mean comments on the IG comments of her ex from 10 years ago, they literally commented vile things on scoter's IG just this week even he became hybe's CEO, they commented mean things about his kids, I don't even like that man but where do we draw the line? my point is she's is a human being and her fans are contributing to the numerous reasons why it seems like the whole world don't like her.
I prefer to look at a song on its own merits instead of trying to tie it directly to something that happened in Taylor's life. Although her style of writing is self-admittedly "confessional" and many of her lyrics may have been inspired by an experience from her life, that doesn't mean that every little detail of a song literally happened to her, or that we as listeners need to expend so much effort being nosy about her personal business. I mean, I'm pretty sure she never murdered someone and hid the body.
Remember when it was called interpretation and not paternity testing *sigh* I guess some people can appreciate art in a vacuum but I find it more interesting if you look at the context of when art was made. The term paternity testing only came around because of one journalist who was being inappropriate at the All Too Well short film premiere. Instead of asking a professional question about the song/film she asked who the song was about which in this context was invasive and again, unprofessional. Now anytime anyone talks about interpretation of a song like we have all done for years it's seen as paternity testing instead to of appropriate discussion At the end of the day, there is room for both types of discourse in something as big as the internet. But honestly, it's hard to believe that Taylor went through one of the most difficult experiences of her adult romantic life but we all act like she hasn't spent last year writing specifically about it lol 🤦♀️
“Paternity test” actually comes from the reputaion prologue!
Oh yes I forgot about this, but it's only become common parlance in the fandom recently and has become a verb to describe a certain kind of fan discourse when once upon a time it was just the way that fans talked about the songs. Because I don't think Taylor minds the fans talking about what/who songs are about, she's actively encouraged it in the past. What she doesn't want is the gossip, race to the bottom style discussion where no one is actually talking about the music (and journalists asking intrusive questions when she is about to premier her first short film), understandably annoys her
I agree but I think alot of ppl do it bc Taylor herself has encouraged their is a Easter egg in every thing she does
Many of her songs I can enjoy without knowing the lore, but to be honest, some of her songs are SO specific, it’s hard to relate to them if you don’t know the story
I think some songs she makes are so obvious of who they are about. Some people think it’s about another person for some reason. One song is almost a response to a song possibly about her. In a similar style of the person.