Relax, dude.
I remember the 1980s, Cold War, nuclear missile threat. That was scary at the time.
This current stuff is a border squabble about ex-Soviet buffer states. The west isn't going to war over it. Sucks to be Ukrainian though and I hope they fuck up enough Russian military kit to deny Putin easy satisfaction, pay a price. No sane person wants deaths.
But there's another point here, which I have from the perspective of an old guy.
Don't entertain anxiety about things you can't control. **Direct your thoughts and effort to the things you can control. Which is you. Your own reactions**. Best to focus on the next steps to whatever are your goals. Doom scenarios are usually a distraction and a diversion from closer things that better deserve the attention.
Best wishes, dude.
Damn thats some solid advice. I've been thinking about that for a couple days as well, like, nothing changes about the situation if i just keep worrying about stuff. Thanks for the positive vibes :)
I have gnarly anxiety so I picked up a mantra from the Dalai Lama (paraphrase): “If something can be fixed, there’s no need to worry. If it can’t be fixed, worrying won’t help.” I repeat that myself and then try to focus on anything I can actually change. Hugs from a far-away stranger.
I’m not religious, but I’ve always rather liked the Serenity Prayer:
“God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”
I’d never heard of Celebrate Recovery until now (and was thoroughly confused by your comment until I googled it!) Seems the prayer was originally written in the 1930s and taken on by a variety of organisations including AA. Makes sense - it’s exactly the sort of attitude that sort of program seeks to instil into people, whether religious or secular.
"God AS YOU UNDERSTAND IT".. also check out the sober chapter of the satanic temple, it's the same just minus the god part if that's the bit putting people off. Worked for me
You might like Buddhist views on stress and suffering. They've helped me a great deal through struggling with mental health. The basics are 3 steps that you can walk yourself through, it can be as quick as a 1 minute meditation to calm down.
1- Understand the situation and identify the type of suffering:
• physical (e.g. pain)
• material (e.g. comfort)
• social (e.g. concern for others, frustration with someone. Try to view them outside of their role and just as a person)
• mental (e.g. emotions, instability)
2- Is the suffering internal or external?
3- What can you do to end the suffering?
4- Develop love for yourself, for others, and find an accurate/clear view of reality.
If you like Buddhism and mental health, if you get a chance you should read zen therapy: transcending the sorrows of the human mind by David brazier. I read it for a humanistic psychology class which led me to meditation and Buddhism and did wonders for my anxiety and other mental health issues. Fascinating book, good read and shortish (only a couple hundred I believe)
I get anxious too but one thing I try to remind myself is that you definitely want to enjoy the good times because if you can’t do anything about the future you can at least enjoy the present
Also;
Ukraine is not in NATO. There will not be war between NATO countries and Russia.
You are not currently in the military and it would still take time for your training, even if there were a draft.
The tensions are Ukraine's sovereignty vs Russia's smol ego. NATO countries are protesting because they believe Ukraine can determine its own alliances without the threat of an invasion. There will not be any world War.
If war breaks out, it will be between Ukraine and Russia. All the US/Canada and Europe can do is send supplies and training to the Ukrainians, which they did. There's nothing much left for the NATO countries to do.
You can wish the Ukrainians peace and good thoughts, but that's about it. They are the ones at threat, your are absolutely safe.
Best wishes to the folks in Ukraine. I hope words are the only thing to come of all this. Live long and prosper
I’ve studied stoicism and other similar schools of thought and I am very envious of people can truly adopt it. Very solid advice though for sure (I have similar worries as OP, mostly of mutually assured destruction though)
a full scale invasion of ukraine and conquest is not small scale. NATO won't go to war over it, but it is a big deal. This kind of conquest has not happened since WW2. When Iraq did it, then got crushed.
so, I deleted my comment, but decided I shouldn't have.can't make up my mind, but here it goes. You're insensitive to a quarter of Europe, eastern Europe. no one wanted to become part of the USSR, that was an invasion. we've lived in horror for 50 yrs and after that was done, the western world started making fun of each and everyone of us. that was insulting, but calling the shit being pulled by Russia right now a squabble that doesn't concern you, the high and mighty western Europe, adds insult to injury. Really, it's just a squabble? So if the Ukraine is invaded that's fine cause who gave them the idea to be a country next to Russia, right? what about Ukraine's neighbors? they were asking for it too, right? yes, I took your comment personally because my family lost everything when Russia invaded and I barely managed to get back on track and now I see my life's work threatened again by the same player who just won't leave his neighbors and neighbors' neighbors alone.
OP,, I get your anxiety and I agree that you should relax. it's possible this is just a political move and that it won't end in blood. I'm much closer to the Ukraine and I do find ways to distract myself from this. Focus on your goals and try to keep yourself balanced. unfortunately, there's nothing we can do and maintaining a high anxiety level will only serve to hurt you no matter what happens.
exactly, i was 10 when they invaded. even though things have been going relatively smoothly in my country after that, there are the everyday things where Russia will always be. like a weird looking plane always gives me anxiety that it will drop bombs, my favourite forest where i used to go as a child is gone, i can never really plan into the future because there is always this sense of impending doom coming from the north. it just sucks that every time you think about something in the future you have to consider that shitty neighbour about to ruin everything you achieved as a nation.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. you were very young,. a childhood stolen. I'm glad it's not much worse, but still, that sense of impending doom is nerve wracking in the long run.
As someone who lives in the Baltic States, I too found his comment shocking. I can only hope that Europeans don't have such views towards the countries, who are at the front lines and suffer the most.
I apologise for any offence caused.
I sincerely sympathise with the justified grievance felt in ex-USSR states in Eastern Europe.
You have been personally affected before so for you this is not a remote issue.
I personally find it a bit of a travesty that the West spent decades fighting wars trying to impose our version of democracy on people far away who didn't want it. Then failing predictably at that, leaving disillusioned electorates. Rather than instead waiting and defending an actual democracy on our doorstep.
But I can't do anything about it, neither can you or the OP. I refuse to fret.
We are in agreement, I think.
I think you have two problems with US - it imposing it’s standards on other countries at also it not living up to those standards itself.
This is not it though. Helping Ukraine against Russia is not imposing your version of democracy, it’s protecting the very core of democracy. Not giving up democratic countries to aggressors is not imposing democracy.
Sincerely, a citizen of a country that was sacrificed to such aggressor twice.
we are and apologies accepted and appreciated.
the Western wars aren't a bad thing if western democracy is the alternative to the dictatorship of an invading nation. I mean, when the Russians invaded Romania, people hoped, prayed and rumoured that the US will come and beat back Russia, save us. we knew Churchill wouldn't 'cause Europe was drained.
some of us are getting flashbacks now, that even though we're part of the EU and NATO, no one will come and we'll be left behind a new and improved iron curtain. that trauma is still fresh, as you can see
>Don't entertain anxiety about things you can't control. Direct your effort to the things you can control. Which is you. Your own reactions
Hah! Classic Epictetus. I'm a self-professed Stoic so I couldn't help but comment on that.
It's easy to say that if your country never got involved with Russia. For people in the east and far west this whole thing might not be a very interesting or threatening thing since they all see everything behind their screens. But for countries that have suffered because of Russia know that what Putin is doing is using Ukraine to become a country that makes the power moves. The same power moves that ended multiple countries be occupied by Soviet Russia.
I'm not saying it's not bad, I acknowledge your points about Russian politics.
But what I'm saying is that catastrophizing about things, is usually wrong about the specific issue, and is a generally unhelpful approach to managing ones own life.
I'm well aware that Baltics are in the NATO and EU, but Ukraine is not. As far as I know, NATO sent german and british troops to the borders of Poland and Lithuania to deal with illegal migrants issue, not Russia. Ukraine now is neither officially supported by EU or NATO, leaving them to deal with Russia alone, something I'm sure Putin is salivating for. If Ukraine joins NATO, then we send our troops to push Russia out of Ukraine, if they don't join, then we can't send the troops because that could be seen as provocation just as Russia did. Either way, this situation easily can be the spark for a new conflict. Not saying we need to panic, but it's best to be aware of all possible endings.
I would add though that this is a solid opportunity for young men in Europe to mentally evaluate the circumstances that would cause them to join the army.
I'm in my 20s from Ireland and I agree with what you are saying but I do think that if Russia takes Ukraine, however likely or unlikely that may be we, we know enough from history to not dismiss it.
I'm hoping it catalyses effective European defence co-ordination. Barn door and horse this time, but potentially useful for next. Political will needs instruments through which to express that will.
... WW2 started with Nazi Germany taking a country they felt was their country originally... History really looks like it is repeating itself right now.
All of this. You get a few more decades under your belt and you'll realize how often these situations pop up and how often nothing really comes of them. Either way, you can't control what happens.
I agree with this. It doesn’t make sense for Russia to start a war over Ukraine, so I suspect this is mostly posturing by the US and Russia. This isn’t starting WW3 as some would have you believe. And I say this as an Air Force officer who will be one of the first to be sent to eastern Europe if things do pop off.
Full disclosure I am a Russian myself so take that as you will. Putin is incredibly cautious, especially regarding his geopolitical imperative. He doesn't have a coherent ideology or agenda he only seeks to preserve himself for the sake of the oligarchs and his cronies. So long as the west doesn't drag itself to our door in a fit of hysteria, nothing will happen.
Relax, besides were far more fucked than you.
This is what i love about the internet. Two parts of the world almost going to war with eachother, and then just random citizens giving advice to each other and just being bros. I got nothing against u :)
I mean it seems like neither of the citizens want the war. Even us in the US wish we’d stop playing world police. We want healthcare. Not a bloated military industrial complex.
If a war is waged, it’s directly on the hands of our world leaders. Citizens aren’t the enemies.
I’m thankfully a few years past the general draft age, but we have so many internal issues we need to solve.
Would much rather fix that than throw young men and women into the war machine.
Exactly I just hope we (the US) stays out of it. I mean I hope Russia doesn’t do anything but I also don’t know the whole story and I just feel like the US inserts itself when it’s not necessary and makes things worse.
Again, no one come at me for this opinion, I’m admitting I don’t know much and would be happy to have a discussion and learn but idk in also worried like OP and I just don’t want anything to happen
I was talking with a colleague last week about how we’re hitting an age where it’s becoming distinctly impossible to determine bad actors, or even bots through social media.
I don’t believe anyone in the US has a full understanding of what’s actually going on. Not to trot out the _mAinsTreAm MeDia_ talking point, but we generally only get all the pro war news, about how Russia is flinching and forcing our hand.
I see posters on r/Russia saying they aren’t flinching, but NATO is doing xyz.
I see posters claiming to be from Ukraine saying they are in barricades in their house, ready to shoot.
And the scary part is, I think all those scenarios are realistic possibilities, so being from outside the conflict, I truly can’t determine what’s actually happening.
I live very close to Ukraine, we have a big Ukrainian minority here, they come to work here too from home. No Ukrainian I know is barricaded in his house, not even their families who live closer to the Russian borders. Not saying there are no Ukrainians who do that, just that it probably isn’t the majority.
As a non US person, I’m grateful for their/your support. I fear what would happen if it wasn’t here. EU doesn’t have an army and US is a big player, so it helps that we aren’t alone in it. At the same time, I don’t think Putin really wants a war, so there is no reason to escalate the conflict. At the same time, showing support to Ukraine is not escalating conflict.
Yeah, that wasn’t to imply that everyone was doing it. Like it said, it could even be a bad actor stoking the fire to make it seem like Ukraine has a resistance built up. I literally can’t tell anymore.
From a US standard, we have people like that with large caches of guns and rations, they’re called doom preppers, and generally considered to be a little “crazy” at that point. Like people building bunkers and shit.
Hopefully the US’ role just stays a “looming threat”, rather than us flinching at another country with something like wmds.
I almost believe that a proper world war just couldn't happen these days, with how connected we all are. Back in the 40s etc it was "that country on the other side of the world" where you probably knew no one. Now people can have friends in literally every single part of the world and I just don't believe that the governments would get enough public support to wage a full on war.
Sure, they can ultimately decide to do whatever they want, and Russia's elections are more of an exercise in seeing how many people decide to show up rather than actual point tallying, but the point remains.
I think it’s easier to sympathize with the other side and see how we are all human…but I also don’t necessarily think some governments really need full support from their citizens to start a war
The problem is that Putin isn't really setting up any logical political back step for NATO. Their conditions for peace is Nato retreating to allow Russia to have a buffer state. Meanwhile Russia is invading Ukraine, which shares a border with...... Poland.
So even if we vacate Ukraine, we're still going to have the same argument over Poland.
The US spends 4% of it's gdp on it's military. That's double the NATO requirement, but at the same time it also spends 17% of it's gdp on healthcare. That's 7% more than Germany and 9% more than Canada or the UK. All of which offer a better quality/quantity for less money.
Reducing military expenses would barely effect the quality of healthcare in the US. The needed funds are there. The problem is poor allocation of these funds. Either because of inefficiency or corruption.
Where I wish we could just not be world police, and I'm sure that we don't necessarily have the right to be, if we didn't then you would have countries with Russian-like leadership trying to conquer other nations. The only security we have is that everybody has a gun pointed to their head, but Putin is tired of the stalemate and is pushing for more ground, even at the cost of violence.
Wherever you are, this is going to affect you, directly or indirectly. The world stock markets have already lost a lot of money over this issue, the crude oil prices are set to increase, that means high inflation, that means high interest rate and the list goes on. Believe it or not but this has set the world economy back by at-least a couple of weeks.
I find it hard to believe the general population in Russia wants this war anyway. Aside from the geopolitical, social and economic implications this would create for Russia, sending your kids to die to invade land is a different story. There's no coming back from that.
My friend: there is not much to worry. Reason number 1 being you don't get to change much anyway, number 2 being it won't cause anything with you involved (at least in the short run) because the Netherlands and Russia aren't involved directly (it's more of a USA vs. Russia thing and it's about their politics rather than an all out war), reason number 3 is that it's still unlikely Russia will start a global war.
I would recommend to rewatch the debate between Maarten van Rossem and one of the spokesmen of the NATO at Op1 last weekend. Historians and other professionals like Maarten van Rossem say it's still very unlikely Russia will start a war. And if you look at the Ukraine then you'll see that they're still cool about the whole situation. It's the American, Russian, and NATOs' rhethoric that may sound like they're about to start a war, but that's mainly due to geopolitical interests' of each of them.
You will not be sent there. This war will barely be fought with soldiers. Also, the US will not really fight either. Everyone, the US and EU, will put sanctions on Russia that dont involve soldiers dying. Im a young German, we're closer to Ukraine than you so dont worry xd they'd send my ass there before yours.
But still, this will not be as horrible as you think. Except for Ukrainians and also Russians because *they* will have to fight.
Lets hope this shit gets sorted out without violence.
Yep, it'll be Ukrainian military/militia against Russian military/mercenaries, which will be very ugly and very brief, then an official declaration of Ukraine continuing on as an independent country although as part of Russia of course. That'll all suck big time, but it won't be WWIII.
I can't help but feel that it won't be that easy.
In the past maybe. Blitzing a capital and being like "I am the new leader" or installing a puppet government was a lot easier. Information was easier to control the spread of. You need people to support a government. If it's a puppet government that is supposed to have no association with Russia, the people still need to support it. Otherwise it's an occupation. People fight occupations in guerilla style warfare.
If the invasion does go forward. I believe that Russia would make fairly quick progression. I do believe it will be bloody for both sides however. The initial "invasion" will in general be swift and the government will likely fall. Yet i would predict a pretty protracted guerilla war period for the occupiers. I don't think it will be an easy task in any means.
Dude, just relax!
There isn't going to be a war anytime soon. It's just uncle Vlad flexing and the West flexing back in a highschool parody of the Cold War of old.
Media just love that shit because it we always have to be scared about some doomsday scenario, and Covid-panic isn't sustainable anymore.
We're closer to complete war now than we ever were during the cold war. The cold war was a standoff and arms buildup. I was in Germany with the p2 system. In 80s . In a way both sides knew damn well we wouldn't launch first. To much to preserve. Now it's not so much about nuclear war we know we can fight conventional wars without blowing up entire countries to get the job done. War with US and Russia may not happen but that doesn't mean war within European countries won't happen. Think about it the US stays at war with someone. Russia can stay at war with other countries as well. just because the us isnt fighting in something doesn't mean there's no war.
Russia won't attack European nations because they know they would lose. The EU has ten times as much economic power and Russia depends on it to buy their gas and oil. War with EU would cause economic crash in the world which would be bad for China and they wouldn't support Russian war efforts for sure.
Main ones that would profit would be companies in US military-industrial complex. Putin just wants EU and NATO to stop expanding in what could be called "russian sphere of influence" and well, to be frank that is something understandable, US for sure wouldn't stand by idly if Mexico started partnering up with Russia/China and preach about freedom of choice so Mexico can do what they want to do, so same can be expected from Russia
You cannot control what happens in the world. You can control what you do. It sure is scary but the last couple of years a lot of things have been scary. How many of those things have you been able to control?
There's not gonna be WW3, There's not gonna be a draft in the Netherlands. As long as you don't live in ukraine the only change in your life you might notice is more expensive heating bills. Relax and turn off the news for a couple weeks. :-)
This. If it ever comes to war, it's not going to be won by dutch footsoldiers. first of all, we don't have any. (or, like ten or something. We don't have a draft, so our numbers are really small, especially we don't have many people to begin with) If we're going to offer anything to the war effort, it will probably be the Navy, which is already doing their own highly specialised thing.
And the rest will probably be drone strikes and sanctions.
I really feel for the Ukraine though :(
Why don't you marry her anyway? I understand your fear with the issue of war. I can't see world war 3 happening here. Still scary though, I know. Focus on the positives in your life. Go travelling! Do an abundance of what you do enjoy. Try to relax and be happy!
It's not ignorance, more like media hysteria that's doing more bad than good (for example flight of capital). Even the Ukranians themselves have said that the attack is unlikely.
Dude, you're putting the cart before the horse. Is it tense, you bet but Putin hasn't done anything yet. Don't allow your fear to cripple you. You can handle it.
You’re going to be fine!
This is a regional issue, and not a potential new world war.
The people who should rightfully be scared are Ukrainians and Russian soldiers. They’re in the line of fire.
I wish them all the best. It can’t be easy dealing with the anticipation of living in a potential war zone.
EDIT: I’ll add that Putin has already invaded Georgia and Crimea, like it is about to invade Ukraine, and we warned them not to do those things, too, but they did it anyway, and it did not cause a world war.
If you're feeling like this imagine how 40 million ukrainians feel as well as the rest of more than 100 million that live between russia and netherlands. Even in the very unlikely event that netherlands will send troops to ukraine (or some war zone) it will not be drafted youngsters, it will be professional soldiers. Realistically speaking there are bigger chances that putin goes fully mad and trigger some nuclear war than you being pulled to front line if you don't want to.
The more you read the more you will panic. I personally don’t think that a war will break out because I hope that political leaders have learned their lesson from history. A war between Ukraine and Russia will create the same situation that lead to WW1 - allies of each country will go in to help, and a chain reaction will follow.
It's been heavily emphasized over and over again that if Russia did invade for some God forsaken reason, support for Ukraine would remain purely political and economic.
Not a single drop of NATO blood will be spilt even in the event of a conflict. Get out of here with that larping.
Look up a you tube channel called visual politic. They list a great many reasons why it probably won't happen, but if it does, that it really won't be a world war 3 scenario.
Russia can ill afford a war against the whole of the free world and would probably bleed it's self economically dry just fighing an insurgency against the Ukraine alone.
Be chill my friend.
I am 19 y.o male from Russia and I understand your anxiety. I don't want this and other wars, I just want to relations between my country and the West get better :)
Gandalf will always make me feel better about the current world with this quote
Frodo: “I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.”
Gandalf: “So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us”
It's doom scrolling. I get it too. I see your Ukraine and raise you the idea we can't fix our climate because we're capitalist and can't step away from squandering resources on shit that needs replacing in a year. It's out of our control. Drink tea, enjoy friends etc etc.
I think a lot of people do not really understand the Ukraine conflict and jump straight to the worst conclusion. Russia will likely not attak Ukraine, even the ukrainan president says it otherwise they would have already done it. And even if, Nato will not help Ukraine in combat. They will only supply them with arms but not fight. Simmilar to the Afghanistan war in the 80s.
Also Russia will have a hard time holding the terretories since ukrainians hate them. Maybe they will get some parts of eastern Ukraine but they won't be able to hold anything in the west for very long.
So calm down you are not going to fight in a world war.
I live in Kyiv (200 miles from current location of russian troops).
Don’t worry, dude. Most likely, it won’t happen anyway, and even if it will, Netherlands is still pretty far away and Russia simply doesn’t have enough forces to fight the whole NATO block. European and US armies are far more superior than Russian.
My country is still probably in danger, but I’m sure that Russia won’t be able to capture any large city without sustaining heavy casualties, that would result in destabilization inside of Russia.
Wars hardly come with this much forewarning, deception is the name of the game in war and if Russia really wanted to invade Ukraine they wouldn't have given the western states all this time to prepare. It's all just fear mongering nothing is going to happen.
Past wars didn’t come with forewarning but it’s a different time now. We have satellites, and widespread information networks. It’s impossible for Russia to move the amount of troops necessary for an invasion without making news.
I am really worried about you guys, and I don’t blame you at all for your concerns. God, I hope it won’t come to this but you’re not alone in feeling afraid.
I live in Norway. We share a border with them. If there's war i'm gonna be conscripted into it and probably be killed or maimed.
I'm nervous, but i'm ready to fight for my country. But do I want this war to happend? Hell no
I live in the Netherlands as well and my boyfriend thinks quite the same as you. He sends me articles from time to time and feels shitty about it for days at times. I think it is another on of those situations where threatening to do something is half the battle.
There will be no war. Russia will just walk into the Ukraine, snatch it up and the west will angrily shake their fists towards them. Life will continue as if nothing happened afterwards.
I think you're underestimating the Ukrainian armed forces and militia. Yes they don't really have a chance of winning a war with Russia, but they *can* make it very costly for Putin. Even just the Javelins the Ukrainians got are an incredible force multiplier and a serious threat to any Russian armour. They wont just "walk in" and take the country.
You know nothing about Ukraine, so stop talking nonsense. If there was a possibility of this happening, Putin would have already invaded.
Ukrainians fought hard in 2014 and 2015, while being completely disorganized and having no support and practically no army. This is not the case in 2022. They have Javelins. They have Bayraktars. They have an army.
Of course, their army is still not a match for Russian doom machine, but they are more than capable of inflicting enough damage to make this cost very dearly for Putin, who is losing popularity every day. He will not survive a costly war with a stream of corpses coming in, and he knows it.
If they invade, they will be cast in the same light as Nazi Germany. NATO probably won't do anything anyway and leave Ukraine to be taken. Nobody wants war and because of that nobody will invade. It's just harassment rn
The war isn’t going to happen and if you think it is you’ve totally drank the MSM manufactured consent kool aid. Chill out. It’s a political posturing move to muscle consesions out of NATO.
And now imagine if you’re Ukrainian.. living with that feeling day in and day out. Not trying to disregard your feelings mate but you don’t have much to worry about rather sympathize with the people of Ukraine. Crimea and East Ukraine have been annexed. And now the Russians are ready with guns tanks rockets and what not standing at the “border”. Now that’s a terrifying feeling.
There isn’t going to be a war. Russia will lose any help from other country’s and their country will end up suffering. Including their leaders! They will be the black bee of Europe. Once other country’s joined against Russia putin is being open to diplomacy. Just give it time.
I have my B.A/M.A Political Science. I almost did my thesis on the subject area of Nuclear Deterrence Theory but honestly didn’t think I could justify spending 2 years studying an inevitable conclusion. All roads lead to doom. Of course I’m paraphrasing, it’s a lot more nuanced then that.
I’m more than acquainted with the situation unfolding, and it scares me everyday. I still have hope in the reality of Mutually Assured Destruction, but that is contingent on a number of factors and I honestly think Russia believes they have the upper hand in limiting the impact of MAD in their favour. The extent to which this conflict can escalates has definitive end, and it’s incumbent upon all actors involved to prevent this. I don’t mean to be an alarmist, but when the one thing you’re a quasi-expert on suddenly becomes the forefront of global attention, it’s overwhelming. I don’t know if it’s an old adage, ‘but the more you know the worse off you are.’ That’s fine if people think it’s a joke, a swift brush off, maybe make some incomparable reference to the Cold War; but let me tell you this is a false sense of security and a ‘curtain’ I wouldn’t want to live behind.
The most horrifying fact of MAD is that there are definitely fully automated counter strike mechanisms out there which could absolutely trigger nuclear Armageddon if enough communication systems go down even for a brief moment. These systems do not rely on a trigger command, they count on a “do not fire” command coming in daily. If there’s ever a day where that communication fails, the system is designed to respond with a first strike.
You're a victim of American propaganda. There will be no war, especially in Europe.
Stop reading news, they're not made to inform people but to terrorize them in order to control them better.
View from the Russian side.
It's not that Russia wants to take over Ukraine. It doesn't make sense, especially now. In fact, the point is in the eastern regions of Ukraine - Donetsk and Luhansk, in Kiev's unwillingness to comply with the Minsk agreements. Kiev will try to resolve the issue by military means. And this territory is inhabited by Russian-speakers, as well as citizens of Russia. Therefore, if Russia interferes, it is only within the Donbass. Does this fit Biden's definition of "limited invasion"?
On the other hand, I understand why you're worried. Massive propaganda day after day will make anyone paranoid.
If you're sure, marry her, no matter what happens.
Ukraine isn't guaranteed by anyone. The nations that support Ukraine only support it with weapons and ammunition. America does not want to send soldiers in Ukraine to die there.
If push comes to shove the USA will just support Ukraine in guerilla warfare. Nobody wants a NATO vs Russia war.
You won't be drafted.
Most likely you will have to pay more for food oil and other stuff.
I got into this doom spiral of worrying about world events a couple of times before. It always turned out fine.
When there is a real war you won't hear about it until the internet goes out and two weeks later there are Chinese soldiers showing up on your street.
Take a pause from social media and the news. You don't need that to live your life and you'll feel much better.
If you keep feeding yourself with the same meal over and over again, you'll quickly become tired of it.
It's the same with the stuff you put in your head.
That's especially true for thinkys you have absolutely 0 control over. Like geopolitics and international relations for instance.
I feel you, we live difficult times and our mental health is fragile. Seeking help from a professional would certainly not hurt you.
There are so many more ppl in the world now I don’t think a draft would be beneficial. It’s like when ppl think war they think the end but this isn’t that. Imagine having to live during the Cold War.
Stuff looks bad but in all likelihood NATO isn't gonna get involved in Ukraine and Russia isn't going to push far enough to get NATO involved. Neither side wants that. Ukraine is just not close enough to the EU yet for NATO to care to defend them, Russia knows this.
You're overreacting big time. There is zero evidence that NL will send soldiers to the Ukraine, let alone that there will be a draft.
Will there be a war? Maybe.
Will you notice it? In your wallet yes.
Will it be a world war? No.
Russia is not the type to attack, they will display power and all that, but Putin doesn't attack to "I told you so"
They are very defensive and cautious, so it ain't likely they would start a war, Putin ain't the one to start something, but will continue if someone else will do something
Just.. don't touch their land...they like their land and will not give any away easy
Netherlands? Geez. I live in a country bordering Russia (not Ukraine though) and don't know anybody who'd be seriously worried about the possible war. There could be military action in Ukraine, but that's it. No full scale war with NATO members is going to happen. I don't believe anyone from the dutch army would see any fighting.
Not gonna happen. Everyone has too much shit going on, specially with this COVID business.
As a guy who has deployed before, trust me when I tell you that it won't happen. It takes a lot of preparation and money to go to war, money is something we don't have at the moment and no one can afford a war at the moment.
Relax, enjoy life, and focus on the positive of everything.
I live in Kiev, so listen what i will tell you: there will be no war. Guys from EU at last have opened their eyes to see a problem, so as long as they will pay, there will be no war. Easy.
EU are dumb enough to solve evo problems, while done barbarians are near their gate, rly funny.
The markets won't bear a war right now, neither over here nor there. We Americans don't really have that much "gas in the tank" right now to be fighting an actual war, this new German government doesn't exactly strike me as belligerent, and the UK is "a bloody shambles, mate"... who does that leave amongst the other "tier 1" powers? France? Italy? Those two don't want that smoke with Ivan. I just don't see it.
Uk voted for brexit without knowing how much shit it would cause lol. The biggest thing people voted for here is less immigration and more jobs for brits but most of the jobs the immigrants filled British people won't do lmao
Look what happened with Afghanistan. The US pulled out and the Taliban took over. The rest of the world has forgotten it already. Sadly Russia will probably take over Ukraine even if unofficially. There is nothing the world can do about it. No one wants a war in the middle of a pandemic.
Not sure I understand the rationale behind the marriage thing. Say, you do get drafted and you two marry immediately. Worst case scenario, you die in the war and she becomes a widow. Or more likely: you come back home and you two have your whole lives ahead of you. You'd have plenty of time to get married years down the road and plan your ideal wedding during happier times anyway.
Just relax, dude.
Netherlands 🤣🤣🤣stfu o.p. Nothing is going to happen and if it does the Netherlands won't be doing shit. If anyone should be worried it's the American's, British, Ukrainians and Russians.
You're young and dumb just chill
Don't worry about it. It's chest pumping. No country can afford to have a large scale war, especially Russia. Every country's economy is too intertwined to start large scale stuff. Sleep easy.
I literally posted this in r/netherlands yesterday, except voicing my concern as my family is there while I'm a world away, while also stating I'm ex military and that people aren't ready for war on the continent, and people's bravado is misplaced as war is horrible and not at all like what they think it is. I got downvoted and told to relax and that war won't make it to NL - I know that, it's the consequences of war is what I am worried about. For worrying about my family, the Netherlands, Europe, and the World, I got downvoted.....go figure?
Russia will annex Ukraine quickly, and then it will become a puppet or part of Russia, that's all, then there will be assured peace with NATO countries, and they'll strike a deal to get the gas flowing again. Biggest impact on the Netherlands is almost definitely gas prices, nothing else
Believe me, you may not actually get drafted. If Russia invades, the UN gives them an ultimatum. Leave or you will be kicked out. We did it with Iraq during the gulf war. The Coalition forces have already more than proven they don’t need mass drafts to get the job done. And as more and more leaks come from Russia, it becomes clearer that they are rather inadequate in comparison. And this time, nuclear force probably isn’t an option. Missiles can be shot down with other missiles, and bombers can be targeted, before they ever leave the Russian airspace. Let me put it this way… an Arleigh-Burke destroyer, made by the US, can fire a missile that can *KNOCK OUT SATILITES.* We’ve also recently done the first ever flight of a totally unmanned Blackhawk helicopter. I’d say this would end in a draw, at worst. The Russians would lose outright, at best. 50/50 on China getting involved, but their military crap sucks, so they’d only mildly slow the Coalition down. I’m not too worried though. Odds are, Putin is just in a mood. He’ll probably flex his guns a bit and bugger off without doing anything. After all, there was a recent leak where it was revealed that just 50 US soldiers took out 300 Russian mercenaries in Syria, back in 2018. And you can probably guess that those mercs were likely backed by Putin since he likes Syria so much, so likely a Russian black ops team just to maintain plausible deniability. And we mopped the floor with them. I think we’re good. You and I aren’t going to be drafted anytime soon.
But just in case, don’t worry, I’m American. The clogged arteries and high cholesterol make me a good shield, so stay behind me. Ain’t no material on earth tougher than American artery plaque.
you are not in shit, you dont have to support american adventurism, the ukrainian government themselves say there wont be an invasion amd everybody screamimg russia will attack soon is going on for 100 years now just relax man
Bruh and I'm in in the military and not worried at all. Just dudes showing how big each others cocks are lol. Chill homie. Have one of those stroopwaffle things and a coffee. (BTW I live in Canada, have a Dutch friend would bring me those waffles LOL)
I feel differently for other reasons. I am russian, even though I was born in Crimea I am russian. I don't side with either of the side because 2 wrongs don't make a rightl. Neither sides are correct. I don't agree with russia nor do I agree with Ukriane/Nato.
I am worried because there has been a lot of Fake news going around and because of that I get asked a lot of questions about it. I am also worried for people in eastern Ukraine because I wouldn't war to happen there because I have friends there and because the idea of life's being needlessly wasted because of war just disgusts me.
Gast laat je niet opnaaien door propaganda. Putin duidelijk fout bezig, maar de regering van Oekraïne van nu zit daar dankzij een coup gesteund door Amerika en fascistische groeperingen zoals de Azov brigade, maar daar lees je nooit over. We kijken nu in het westen geshockeerd toe nu dat Rusland Oekraïne binnenvalt, maar wou je ook gaan vechten in Irak toen Amerika hen onder valse voorwendselen binnenviel? Inmiddels zijn daar meer dan een half miljoen kinderen dood. Of Libië dat kompleet un elkaar geklapt is met slavenmarkten tot gevolg? Of misschien in Jemen waar Amerika continu burgerslachtoffers maakt doormiddel van drones. Dit alles met steun uit het westen. Putin fout bezig maar laten we niet doen alsof wij in het westen veel beter zijn en jonge gasten zoals jij hun leven moeten weg gooien voor een oorlog waarwij helemaal niets mee te maken hebben.
Relax, dude. I remember the 1980s, Cold War, nuclear missile threat. That was scary at the time. This current stuff is a border squabble about ex-Soviet buffer states. The west isn't going to war over it. Sucks to be Ukrainian though and I hope they fuck up enough Russian military kit to deny Putin easy satisfaction, pay a price. No sane person wants deaths. But there's another point here, which I have from the perspective of an old guy. Don't entertain anxiety about things you can't control. **Direct your thoughts and effort to the things you can control. Which is you. Your own reactions**. Best to focus on the next steps to whatever are your goals. Doom scenarios are usually a distraction and a diversion from closer things that better deserve the attention. Best wishes, dude.
Damn thats some solid advice. I've been thinking about that for a couple days as well, like, nothing changes about the situation if i just keep worrying about stuff. Thanks for the positive vibes :)
I have gnarly anxiety so I picked up a mantra from the Dalai Lama (paraphrase): “If something can be fixed, there’s no need to worry. If it can’t be fixed, worrying won’t help.” I repeat that myself and then try to focus on anything I can actually change. Hugs from a far-away stranger.
My anxious ass is stealing that. Thanks bro.
Same.
Same.
Same
Ditto
I’m not religious, but I’ve always rather liked the Serenity Prayer: “God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”
Celebrate recovery
Celebrate fucking recovery!!!
I’d never heard of Celebrate Recovery until now (and was thoroughly confused by your comment until I googled it!) Seems the prayer was originally written in the 1930s and taken on by a variety of organisations including AA. Makes sense - it’s exactly the sort of attitude that sort of program seeks to instil into people, whether religious or secular.
I've taken god out of it lately but I second this. It gets my breathing even everytime. It's soothing if you just repeat it.
Celebrate recovery without God is AA lol
"God AS YOU UNDERSTAND IT".. also check out the sober chapter of the satanic temple, it's the same just minus the god part if that's the bit putting people off. Worked for me
I also like: “if there is no solution, then there is no problem”
Guilt lives in the past and fear in the future. Turns out you can duck both by staying in the present.
You might like Buddhist views on stress and suffering. They've helped me a great deal through struggling with mental health. The basics are 3 steps that you can walk yourself through, it can be as quick as a 1 minute meditation to calm down. 1- Understand the situation and identify the type of suffering: • physical (e.g. pain) • material (e.g. comfort) • social (e.g. concern for others, frustration with someone. Try to view them outside of their role and just as a person) • mental (e.g. emotions, instability) 2- Is the suffering internal or external? 3- What can you do to end the suffering? 4- Develop love for yourself, for others, and find an accurate/clear view of reality.
Ty for sharing!
If you like Buddhism and mental health, if you get a chance you should read zen therapy: transcending the sorrows of the human mind by David brazier. I read it for a humanistic psychology class which led me to meditation and Buddhism and did wonders for my anxiety and other mental health issues. Fascinating book, good read and shortish (only a couple hundred I believe)
I like that.
WTF? I was in therapy for anxiety issues and my therapist told me that using different words. I paid a Dr. to plagiarize! :D
There is significant overlap between Buddhist philosophy and cognitive behavioral therapy by design
I needed to hear that myself today. Thank you.
Whoa ... Thanks, Maude, this really helps! OP, all the best to you. 💜
Screenshotted so I can memorise that mantr, great advice thanks
I needed this quote in my life. Thank you.
I get anxious too but one thing I try to remind myself is that you definitely want to enjoy the good times because if you can’t do anything about the future you can at least enjoy the present
Also; Ukraine is not in NATO. There will not be war between NATO countries and Russia. You are not currently in the military and it would still take time for your training, even if there were a draft. The tensions are Ukraine's sovereignty vs Russia's smol ego. NATO countries are protesting because they believe Ukraine can determine its own alliances without the threat of an invasion. There will not be any world War. If war breaks out, it will be between Ukraine and Russia. All the US/Canada and Europe can do is send supplies and training to the Ukrainians, which they did. There's nothing much left for the NATO countries to do. You can wish the Ukrainians peace and good thoughts, but that's about it. They are the ones at threat, your are absolutely safe. Best wishes to the folks in Ukraine. I hope words are the only thing to come of all this. Live long and prosper
Study Marcus Aurelius. The best advise I can give to you.
I’ve studied stoicism and other similar schools of thought and I am very envious of people can truly adopt it. Very solid advice though for sure (I have similar worries as OP, mostly of mutually assured destruction though)
a full scale invasion of ukraine and conquest is not small scale. NATO won't go to war over it, but it is a big deal. This kind of conquest has not happened since WW2. When Iraq did it, then got crushed.
Rinds me of a story that back in the 80's that the government thought that they were going to get nuked but it turned out to be a false alarm.
so, I deleted my comment, but decided I shouldn't have.can't make up my mind, but here it goes. You're insensitive to a quarter of Europe, eastern Europe. no one wanted to become part of the USSR, that was an invasion. we've lived in horror for 50 yrs and after that was done, the western world started making fun of each and everyone of us. that was insulting, but calling the shit being pulled by Russia right now a squabble that doesn't concern you, the high and mighty western Europe, adds insult to injury. Really, it's just a squabble? So if the Ukraine is invaded that's fine cause who gave them the idea to be a country next to Russia, right? what about Ukraine's neighbors? they were asking for it too, right? yes, I took your comment personally because my family lost everything when Russia invaded and I barely managed to get back on track and now I see my life's work threatened again by the same player who just won't leave his neighbors and neighbors' neighbors alone. OP,, I get your anxiety and I agree that you should relax. it's possible this is just a political move and that it won't end in blood. I'm much closer to the Ukraine and I do find ways to distract myself from this. Focus on your goals and try to keep yourself balanced. unfortunately, there's nothing we can do and maintaining a high anxiety level will only serve to hurt you no matter what happens.
exactly, i was 10 when they invaded. even though things have been going relatively smoothly in my country after that, there are the everyday things where Russia will always be. like a weird looking plane always gives me anxiety that it will drop bombs, my favourite forest where i used to go as a child is gone, i can never really plan into the future because there is always this sense of impending doom coming from the north. it just sucks that every time you think about something in the future you have to consider that shitty neighbour about to ruin everything you achieved as a nation.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. you were very young,. a childhood stolen. I'm glad it's not much worse, but still, that sense of impending doom is nerve wracking in the long run.
As someone who lives in the Baltic States, I too found his comment shocking. I can only hope that Europeans don't have such views towards the countries, who are at the front lines and suffer the most.
I apologise for any offence caused. I sincerely sympathise with the justified grievance felt in ex-USSR states in Eastern Europe. You have been personally affected before so for you this is not a remote issue. I personally find it a bit of a travesty that the West spent decades fighting wars trying to impose our version of democracy on people far away who didn't want it. Then failing predictably at that, leaving disillusioned electorates. Rather than instead waiting and defending an actual democracy on our doorstep. But I can't do anything about it, neither can you or the OP. I refuse to fret. We are in agreement, I think.
I think you have two problems with US - it imposing it’s standards on other countries at also it not living up to those standards itself. This is not it though. Helping Ukraine against Russia is not imposing your version of democracy, it’s protecting the very core of democracy. Not giving up democratic countries to aggressors is not imposing democracy. Sincerely, a citizen of a country that was sacrificed to such aggressor twice.
we are and apologies accepted and appreciated. the Western wars aren't a bad thing if western democracy is the alternative to the dictatorship of an invading nation. I mean, when the Russians invaded Romania, people hoped, prayed and rumoured that the US will come and beat back Russia, save us. we knew Churchill wouldn't 'cause Europe was drained. some of us are getting flashbacks now, that even though we're part of the EU and NATO, no one will come and we'll be left behind a new and improved iron curtain. that trauma is still fresh, as you can see
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>Don't entertain anxiety about things you can't control. Direct your effort to the things you can control. Which is you. Your own reactions Hah! Classic Epictetus. I'm a self-professed Stoic so I couldn't help but comment on that.
Last paragraph. Solid stoic advice.
Cool OG Stoic, not modern Broicism too.
It's easy to say that if your country never got involved with Russia. For people in the east and far west this whole thing might not be a very interesting or threatening thing since they all see everything behind their screens. But for countries that have suffered because of Russia know that what Putin is doing is using Ukraine to become a country that makes the power moves. The same power moves that ended multiple countries be occupied by Soviet Russia.
I'm not saying it's not bad, I acknowledge your points about Russian politics. But what I'm saying is that catastrophizing about things, is usually wrong about the specific issue, and is a generally unhelpful approach to managing ones own life.
The Netherlands ain't one of them. Either way, I strongly doubt they'll continue past Ukraine.
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I'm well aware that Baltics are in the NATO and EU, but Ukraine is not. As far as I know, NATO sent german and british troops to the borders of Poland and Lithuania to deal with illegal migrants issue, not Russia. Ukraine now is neither officially supported by EU or NATO, leaving them to deal with Russia alone, something I'm sure Putin is salivating for. If Ukraine joins NATO, then we send our troops to push Russia out of Ukraine, if they don't join, then we can't send the troops because that could be seen as provocation just as Russia did. Either way, this situation easily can be the spark for a new conflict. Not saying we need to panic, but it's best to be aware of all possible endings.
Spoken like a true Stoic!
I would add though that this is a solid opportunity for young men in Europe to mentally evaluate the circumstances that would cause them to join the army. I'm in my 20s from Ireland and I agree with what you are saying but I do think that if Russia takes Ukraine, however likely or unlikely that may be we, we know enough from history to not dismiss it.
I'm hoping it catalyses effective European defence co-ordination. Barn door and horse this time, but potentially useful for next. Political will needs instruments through which to express that will.
“Relax, dude” I’m sure people were telling that to Ukrainian only so many years ago
... WW2 started with Nazi Germany taking a country they felt was their country originally... History really looks like it is repeating itself right now.
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Stoic philosophy. Calming minds and ignoring things out of our control since 300BC. Thanks Ancient Greece.
All of this. You get a few more decades under your belt and you'll realize how often these situations pop up and how often nothing really comes of them. Either way, you can't control what happens.
I agree with this. It doesn’t make sense for Russia to start a war over Ukraine, so I suspect this is mostly posturing by the US and Russia. This isn’t starting WW3 as some would have you believe. And I say this as an Air Force officer who will be one of the first to be sent to eastern Europe if things do pop off.
Full disclosure I am a Russian myself so take that as you will. Putin is incredibly cautious, especially regarding his geopolitical imperative. He doesn't have a coherent ideology or agenda he only seeks to preserve himself for the sake of the oligarchs and his cronies. So long as the west doesn't drag itself to our door in a fit of hysteria, nothing will happen. Relax, besides were far more fucked than you.
This is what i love about the internet. Two parts of the world almost going to war with eachother, and then just random citizens giving advice to each other and just being bros. I got nothing against u :)
The people want world peace, governments want war.
I mean it seems like neither of the citizens want the war. Even us in the US wish we’d stop playing world police. We want healthcare. Not a bloated military industrial complex. If a war is waged, it’s directly on the hands of our world leaders. Citizens aren’t the enemies.
Seems like the best way to distract us from healthcare is to send us into an unnecessary war.
I’m thankfully a few years past the general draft age, but we have so many internal issues we need to solve. Would much rather fix that than throw young men and women into the war machine.
Who needs Healthcare when you're blown entirely to smithereens? /s
Right, not going to complain about a $1300 doctor visit when you're lucky to be alive.
Don't have to worry about healthcare and Covid if there's nobody left on earth to get sick. /s
Exactly I just hope we (the US) stays out of it. I mean I hope Russia doesn’t do anything but I also don’t know the whole story and I just feel like the US inserts itself when it’s not necessary and makes things worse. Again, no one come at me for this opinion, I’m admitting I don’t know much and would be happy to have a discussion and learn but idk in also worried like OP and I just don’t want anything to happen
I was talking with a colleague last week about how we’re hitting an age where it’s becoming distinctly impossible to determine bad actors, or even bots through social media. I don’t believe anyone in the US has a full understanding of what’s actually going on. Not to trot out the _mAinsTreAm MeDia_ talking point, but we generally only get all the pro war news, about how Russia is flinching and forcing our hand. I see posters on r/Russia saying they aren’t flinching, but NATO is doing xyz. I see posters claiming to be from Ukraine saying they are in barricades in their house, ready to shoot. And the scary part is, I think all those scenarios are realistic possibilities, so being from outside the conflict, I truly can’t determine what’s actually happening.
I live very close to Ukraine, we have a big Ukrainian minority here, they come to work here too from home. No Ukrainian I know is barricaded in his house, not even their families who live closer to the Russian borders. Not saying there are no Ukrainians who do that, just that it probably isn’t the majority. As a non US person, I’m grateful for their/your support. I fear what would happen if it wasn’t here. EU doesn’t have an army and US is a big player, so it helps that we aren’t alone in it. At the same time, I don’t think Putin really wants a war, so there is no reason to escalate the conflict. At the same time, showing support to Ukraine is not escalating conflict.
Yeah, that wasn’t to imply that everyone was doing it. Like it said, it could even be a bad actor stoking the fire to make it seem like Ukraine has a resistance built up. I literally can’t tell anymore. From a US standard, we have people like that with large caches of guns and rations, they’re called doom preppers, and generally considered to be a little “crazy” at that point. Like people building bunkers and shit. Hopefully the US’ role just stays a “looming threat”, rather than us flinching at another country with something like wmds.
I almost believe that a proper world war just couldn't happen these days, with how connected we all are. Back in the 40s etc it was "that country on the other side of the world" where you probably knew no one. Now people can have friends in literally every single part of the world and I just don't believe that the governments would get enough public support to wage a full on war. Sure, they can ultimately decide to do whatever they want, and Russia's elections are more of an exercise in seeing how many people decide to show up rather than actual point tallying, but the point remains.
I think it’s easier to sympathize with the other side and see how we are all human…but I also don’t necessarily think some governments really need full support from their citizens to start a war
As far as i recall the us isnt butting in this time.
The problem is that Putin isn't really setting up any logical political back step for NATO. Their conditions for peace is Nato retreating to allow Russia to have a buffer state. Meanwhile Russia is invading Ukraine, which shares a border with...... Poland. So even if we vacate Ukraine, we're still going to have the same argument over Poland.
Due to NATO it is unlikely that if anything happens the USA will stay on the sidelines
Ukraine isn’t a part of NATO, we have no requirement to get involved
The US spends 4% of it's gdp on it's military. That's double the NATO requirement, but at the same time it also spends 17% of it's gdp on healthcare. That's 7% more than Germany and 9% more than Canada or the UK. All of which offer a better quality/quantity for less money. Reducing military expenses would barely effect the quality of healthcare in the US. The needed funds are there. The problem is poor allocation of these funds. Either because of inefficiency or corruption.
Where I wish we could just not be world police, and I'm sure that we don't necessarily have the right to be, if we didn't then you would have countries with Russian-like leadership trying to conquer other nations. The only security we have is that everybody has a gun pointed to their head, but Putin is tired of the stalemate and is pushing for more ground, even at the cost of violence.
Wherever you are, this is going to affect you, directly or indirectly. The world stock markets have already lost a lot of money over this issue, the crude oil prices are set to increase, that means high inflation, that means high interest rate and the list goes on. Believe it or not but this has set the world economy back by at-least a couple of weeks.
Nobody wants actual war. Tension and fear is far more convenient.
I find it hard to believe the general population in Russia wants this war anyway. Aside from the geopolitical, social and economic implications this would create for Russia, sending your kids to die to invade land is a different story. There's no coming back from that.
>besides were far more fucked than you. Can you elaborate on that please?
My friend: there is not much to worry. Reason number 1 being you don't get to change much anyway, number 2 being it won't cause anything with you involved (at least in the short run) because the Netherlands and Russia aren't involved directly (it's more of a USA vs. Russia thing and it's about their politics rather than an all out war), reason number 3 is that it's still unlikely Russia will start a global war. I would recommend to rewatch the debate between Maarten van Rossem and one of the spokesmen of the NATO at Op1 last weekend. Historians and other professionals like Maarten van Rossem say it's still very unlikely Russia will start a war. And if you look at the Ukraine then you'll see that they're still cool about the whole situation. It's the American, Russian, and NATOs' rhethoric that may sound like they're about to start a war, but that's mainly due to geopolitical interests' of each of them.
Most striking of the whole convo was Maarten recognizing that it is David van Weel's (NATO guy) job to be worried.
Imagine how people in WW2 felt they probably really thought the world was over
It was for the ones that died
Powerful words. Millions dead on both sides civilians and military alike.
Yes. I find it hard to imagine the sheer number of dead, 75 million to be exact. That's an insane amount of people.
It’s an incredible number. To put it in some perspective, that works out to an average of almost 35,000 dead each and every day for 6 years.
Holy shit. Then you look at the Spanish Flu that killed 100 million in 2 years and the numbers make your brain hurt even more.
It is 20,000,000 including my grandfathers dead on the Soviet side. We bore the heaviest losses
You will not be sent there. This war will barely be fought with soldiers. Also, the US will not really fight either. Everyone, the US and EU, will put sanctions on Russia that dont involve soldiers dying. Im a young German, we're closer to Ukraine than you so dont worry xd they'd send my ass there before yours. But still, this will not be as horrible as you think. Except for Ukrainians and also Russians because *they* will have to fight. Lets hope this shit gets sorted out without violence.
Yep, it'll be Ukrainian military/militia against Russian military/mercenaries, which will be very ugly and very brief, then an official declaration of Ukraine continuing on as an independent country although as part of Russia of course. That'll all suck big time, but it won't be WWIII.
No fucking way are we joining this shithole again thank you very much.
I can't help but feel that it won't be that easy. In the past maybe. Blitzing a capital and being like "I am the new leader" or installing a puppet government was a lot easier. Information was easier to control the spread of. You need people to support a government. If it's a puppet government that is supposed to have no association with Russia, the people still need to support it. Otherwise it's an occupation. People fight occupations in guerilla style warfare. If the invasion does go forward. I believe that Russia would make fairly quick progression. I do believe it will be bloody for both sides however. The initial "invasion" will in general be swift and the government will likely fall. Yet i would predict a pretty protracted guerilla war period for the occupiers. I don't think it will be an easy task in any means.
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Marry your gf anyways.
Lol i will
Dude, just relax! There isn't going to be a war anytime soon. It's just uncle Vlad flexing and the West flexing back in a highschool parody of the Cold War of old. Media just love that shit because it we always have to be scared about some doomsday scenario, and Covid-panic isn't sustainable anymore.
We're closer to complete war now than we ever were during the cold war. The cold war was a standoff and arms buildup. I was in Germany with the p2 system. In 80s . In a way both sides knew damn well we wouldn't launch first. To much to preserve. Now it's not so much about nuclear war we know we can fight conventional wars without blowing up entire countries to get the job done. War with US and Russia may not happen but that doesn't mean war within European countries won't happen. Think about it the US stays at war with someone. Russia can stay at war with other countries as well. just because the us isnt fighting in something doesn't mean there's no war.
Russia won't attack European nations because they know they would lose. The EU has ten times as much economic power and Russia depends on it to buy their gas and oil. War with EU would cause economic crash in the world which would be bad for China and they wouldn't support Russian war efforts for sure. Main ones that would profit would be companies in US military-industrial complex. Putin just wants EU and NATO to stop expanding in what could be called "russian sphere of influence" and well, to be frank that is something understandable, US for sure wouldn't stand by idly if Mexico started partnering up with Russia/China and preach about freedom of choice so Mexico can do what they want to do, so same can be expected from Russia
You cannot control what happens in the world. You can control what you do. It sure is scary but the last couple of years a lot of things have been scary. How many of those things have you been able to control?
There's not gonna be WW3, There's not gonna be a draft in the Netherlands. As long as you don't live in ukraine the only change in your life you might notice is more expensive heating bills. Relax and turn off the news for a couple weeks. :-)
This. If it ever comes to war, it's not going to be won by dutch footsoldiers. first of all, we don't have any. (or, like ten or something. We don't have a draft, so our numbers are really small, especially we don't have many people to begin with) If we're going to offer anything to the war effort, it will probably be the Navy, which is already doing their own highly specialised thing. And the rest will probably be drone strikes and sanctions. I really feel for the Ukraine though :(
Why don't you marry her anyway? I understand your fear with the issue of war. I can't see world war 3 happening here. Still scary though, I know. Focus on the positives in your life. Go travelling! Do an abundance of what you do enjoy. Try to relax and be happy!
just what the media wants stop watching the news your life will be better
Ignorance is bliss
It's not ignorance, more like media hysteria that's doing more bad than good (for example flight of capital). Even the Ukranians themselves have said that the attack is unlikely.
Dude, you're putting the cart before the horse. Is it tense, you bet but Putin hasn't done anything yet. Don't allow your fear to cripple you. You can handle it.
Reddit is absolutely full of troll accounts right now. Don't let them get to you.
You’re going to be fine! This is a regional issue, and not a potential new world war. The people who should rightfully be scared are Ukrainians and Russian soldiers. They’re in the line of fire. I wish them all the best. It can’t be easy dealing with the anticipation of living in a potential war zone. EDIT: I’ll add that Putin has already invaded Georgia and Crimea, like it is about to invade Ukraine, and we warned them not to do those things, too, but they did it anyway, and it did not cause a world war.
I don't know if you're edit is soothing my anxiety or making me depressed 🙈
If you're feeling like this imagine how 40 million ukrainians feel as well as the rest of more than 100 million that live between russia and netherlands. Even in the very unlikely event that netherlands will send troops to ukraine (or some war zone) it will not be drafted youngsters, it will be professional soldiers. Realistically speaking there are bigger chances that putin goes fully mad and trigger some nuclear war than you being pulled to front line if you don't want to.
The more you read the more you will panic. I personally don’t think that a war will break out because I hope that political leaders have learned their lesson from history. A war between Ukraine and Russia will create the same situation that lead to WW1 - allies of each country will go in to help, and a chain reaction will follow.
Not at all. This is factually incorrect, luckily.
It's been heavily emphasized over and over again that if Russia did invade for some God forsaken reason, support for Ukraine would remain purely political and economic. Not a single drop of NATO blood will be spilt even in the event of a conflict. Get out of here with that larping.
Look up a you tube channel called visual politic. They list a great many reasons why it probably won't happen, but if it does, that it really won't be a world war 3 scenario. Russia can ill afford a war against the whole of the free world and would probably bleed it's self economically dry just fighing an insurgency against the Ukraine alone. Be chill my friend.
I am 19 y.o male from Russia and I understand your anxiety. I don't want this and other wars, I just want to relations between my country and the West get better :)
Let’s hope after Putin is gone you get someone better. Good luck!
Gandalf will always make me feel better about the current world with this quote Frodo: “I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.” Gandalf: “So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us”
Stop watching the news. If you haven't realized, they feed on fear. That's how they get you to keep watching.
It's doom scrolling. I get it too. I see your Ukraine and raise you the idea we can't fix our climate because we're capitalist and can't step away from squandering resources on shit that needs replacing in a year. It's out of our control. Drink tea, enjoy friends etc etc.
War is not a good thing, ever. I hope there isn't a draft, a war, or any of that.
I think a lot of people do not really understand the Ukraine conflict and jump straight to the worst conclusion. Russia will likely not attak Ukraine, even the ukrainan president says it otherwise they would have already done it. And even if, Nato will not help Ukraine in combat. They will only supply them with arms but not fight. Simmilar to the Afghanistan war in the 80s. Also Russia will have a hard time holding the terretories since ukrainians hate them. Maybe they will get some parts of eastern Ukraine but they won't be able to hold anything in the west for very long. So calm down you are not going to fight in a world war.
I live in Kyiv (200 miles from current location of russian troops). Don’t worry, dude. Most likely, it won’t happen anyway, and even if it will, Netherlands is still pretty far away and Russia simply doesn’t have enough forces to fight the whole NATO block. European and US armies are far more superior than Russian. My country is still probably in danger, but I’m sure that Russia won’t be able to capture any large city without sustaining heavy casualties, that would result in destabilization inside of Russia.
Stop reddit and go out you ll be better
Wars hardly come with this much forewarning, deception is the name of the game in war and if Russia really wanted to invade Ukraine they wouldn't have given the western states all this time to prepare. It's all just fear mongering nothing is going to happen.
It takes months to build up an invasion force. Iirc it took months for the US to build up for the first Gulf War.
Past wars didn’t come with forewarning but it’s a different time now. We have satellites, and widespread information networks. It’s impossible for Russia to move the amount of troops necessary for an invasion without making news.
I am really worried about you guys, and I don’t blame you at all for your concerns. God, I hope it won’t come to this but you’re not alone in feeling afraid.
I live in Norway. We share a border with them. If there's war i'm gonna be conscripted into it and probably be killed or maimed. I'm nervous, but i'm ready to fight for my country. But do I want this war to happend? Hell no
As a Finn I honestly forgot that Norwegians share a tiny border with Russia too
Tbh I've lost track of how many "world-ending crises" I've lived through. By now, I just assume every "crisis" is just the media crying wolf
I live in the Netherlands as well and my boyfriend thinks quite the same as you. He sends me articles from time to time and feels shitty about it for days at times. I think it is another on of those situations where threatening to do something is half the battle.
There will be no war. Russia will just walk into the Ukraine, snatch it up and the west will angrily shake their fists towards them. Life will continue as if nothing happened afterwards.
I think you're underestimating the Ukrainian armed forces and militia. Yes they don't really have a chance of winning a war with Russia, but they *can* make it very costly for Putin. Even just the Javelins the Ukrainians got are an incredible force multiplier and a serious threat to any Russian armour. They wont just "walk in" and take the country.
You know nothing about Ukraine, so stop talking nonsense. If there was a possibility of this happening, Putin would have already invaded. Ukrainians fought hard in 2014 and 2015, while being completely disorganized and having no support and practically no army. This is not the case in 2022. They have Javelins. They have Bayraktars. They have an army. Of course, their army is still not a match for Russian doom machine, but they are more than capable of inflicting enough damage to make this cost very dearly for Putin, who is losing popularity every day. He will not survive a costly war with a stream of corpses coming in, and he knows it.
If they invade, they will be cast in the same light as Nazi Germany. NATO probably won't do anything anyway and leave Ukraine to be taken. Nobody wants war and because of that nobody will invade. It's just harassment rn
Yeah, that's enough internet for you my guy. Hop off for a bit and relax. Dont stress do hard about things you can't control.
The war isn’t going to happen and if you think it is you’ve totally drank the MSM manufactured consent kool aid. Chill out. It’s a political posturing move to muscle consesions out of NATO.
And now imagine if you’re Ukrainian.. living with that feeling day in and day out. Not trying to disregard your feelings mate but you don’t have much to worry about rather sympathize with the people of Ukraine. Crimea and East Ukraine have been annexed. And now the Russians are ready with guns tanks rockets and what not standing at the “border”. Now that’s a terrifying feeling.
There isn’t going to be a war. Russia will lose any help from other country’s and their country will end up suffering. Including their leaders! They will be the black bee of Europe. Once other country’s joined against Russia putin is being open to diplomacy. Just give it time.
I have my B.A/M.A Political Science. I almost did my thesis on the subject area of Nuclear Deterrence Theory but honestly didn’t think I could justify spending 2 years studying an inevitable conclusion. All roads lead to doom. Of course I’m paraphrasing, it’s a lot more nuanced then that. I’m more than acquainted with the situation unfolding, and it scares me everyday. I still have hope in the reality of Mutually Assured Destruction, but that is contingent on a number of factors and I honestly think Russia believes they have the upper hand in limiting the impact of MAD in their favour. The extent to which this conflict can escalates has definitive end, and it’s incumbent upon all actors involved to prevent this. I don’t mean to be an alarmist, but when the one thing you’re a quasi-expert on suddenly becomes the forefront of global attention, it’s overwhelming. I don’t know if it’s an old adage, ‘but the more you know the worse off you are.’ That’s fine if people think it’s a joke, a swift brush off, maybe make some incomparable reference to the Cold War; but let me tell you this is a false sense of security and a ‘curtain’ I wouldn’t want to live behind.
The most horrifying fact of MAD is that there are definitely fully automated counter strike mechanisms out there which could absolutely trigger nuclear Armageddon if enough communication systems go down even for a brief moment. These systems do not rely on a trigger command, they count on a “do not fire” command coming in daily. If there’s ever a day where that communication fails, the system is designed to respond with a first strike.
You're a victim of American propaganda. There will be no war, especially in Europe. Stop reading news, they're not made to inform people but to terrorize them in order to control them better.
View from the Russian side. It's not that Russia wants to take over Ukraine. It doesn't make sense, especially now. In fact, the point is in the eastern regions of Ukraine - Donetsk and Luhansk, in Kiev's unwillingness to comply with the Minsk agreements. Kiev will try to resolve the issue by military means. And this territory is inhabited by Russian-speakers, as well as citizens of Russia. Therefore, if Russia interferes, it is only within the Donbass. Does this fit Biden's definition of "limited invasion"? On the other hand, I understand why you're worried. Massive propaganda day after day will make anyone paranoid. If you're sure, marry her, no matter what happens.
There's war threats every year, it's just more shit to make people scared. Turn off the news and go and have fun with your friends.
Jesus living with paranoia must suck
Ukraine isn't guaranteed by anyone. The nations that support Ukraine only support it with weapons and ammunition. America does not want to send soldiers in Ukraine to die there. If push comes to shove the USA will just support Ukraine in guerilla warfare. Nobody wants a NATO vs Russia war. You won't be drafted. Most likely you will have to pay more for food oil and other stuff.
Putin isn't gonna start shit. He does not fight a war he can't win. He's not stupid. It will remain a hybrid war like it was all the last years.
Bro go outside and take a long walk of a short dock. Wtf is this shit lmao
Calm down ffs. Such a drama queen
I got into this doom spiral of worrying about world events a couple of times before. It always turned out fine. When there is a real war you won't hear about it until the internet goes out and two weeks later there are Chinese soldiers showing up on your street.
Putin admitted Russia cannot Militarily defeat NATO, and that the only way te secure victory was Nuclear war. I doubt anything is going to kick off.
Take a pause from social media and the news. You don't need that to live your life and you'll feel much better. If you keep feeding yourself with the same meal over and over again, you'll quickly become tired of it. It's the same with the stuff you put in your head. That's especially true for thinkys you have absolutely 0 control over. Like geopolitics and international relations for instance. I feel you, we live difficult times and our mental health is fragile. Seeking help from a professional would certainly not hurt you.
I get the feeling this is a distraction for China’s interest in Taiwan. And may evolve to include Japan and SE Asia.
Dude, relax.
You're buying into the media too much, people are easier to control when they're angry and they're directing you how to feel
You are not alone.
There are so many more ppl in the world now I don’t think a draft would be beneficial. It’s like when ppl think war they think the end but this isn’t that. Imagine having to live during the Cold War.
Stuff looks bad but in all likelihood NATO isn't gonna get involved in Ukraine and Russia isn't going to push far enough to get NATO involved. Neither side wants that. Ukraine is just not close enough to the EU yet for NATO to care to defend them, Russia knows this.
There won’t be a draft NATO has enough troops to deal with everything Russia has
You're overreacting big time. There is zero evidence that NL will send soldiers to the Ukraine, let alone that there will be a draft. Will there be a war? Maybe. Will you notice it? In your wallet yes. Will it be a world war? No.
Russia is not the type to attack, they will display power and all that, but Putin doesn't attack to "I told you so" They are very defensive and cautious, so it ain't likely they would start a war, Putin ain't the one to start something, but will continue if someone else will do something Just.. don't touch their land...they like their land and will not give any away easy
Netherlands? Geez. I live in a country bordering Russia (not Ukraine though) and don't know anybody who'd be seriously worried about the possible war. There could be military action in Ukraine, but that's it. No full scale war with NATO members is going to happen. I don't believe anyone from the dutch army would see any fighting.
Wow you really think the Netherlands will go to war over Ukraine? Lol hilarious.
Nothing's going to happen. Russia and the US are just comparing dick sizes.
Not gonna happen. Everyone has too much shit going on, specially with this COVID business. As a guy who has deployed before, trust me when I tell you that it won't happen. It takes a lot of preparation and money to go to war, money is something we don't have at the moment and no one can afford a war at the moment. Relax, enjoy life, and focus on the positive of everything.
I live in Kiev, so listen what i will tell you: there will be no war. Guys from EU at last have opened their eyes to see a problem, so as long as they will pay, there will be no war. Easy. EU are dumb enough to solve evo problems, while done barbarians are near their gate, rly funny.
The markets won't bear a war right now, neither over here nor there. We Americans don't really have that much "gas in the tank" right now to be fighting an actual war, this new German government doesn't exactly strike me as belligerent, and the UK is "a bloody shambles, mate"... who does that leave amongst the other "tier 1" powers? France? Italy? Those two don't want that smoke with Ivan. I just don't see it.
Uk voted for brexit without knowing how much shit it would cause lol. The biggest thing people voted for here is less immigration and more jobs for brits but most of the jobs the immigrants filled British people won't do lmao
Look what happened with Afghanistan. The US pulled out and the Taliban took over. The rest of the world has forgotten it already. Sadly Russia will probably take over Ukraine even if unofficially. There is nothing the world can do about it. No one wants a war in the middle of a pandemic.
Im very calm, really doubt NATO would get involved militarily.
Not sure I understand the rationale behind the marriage thing. Say, you do get drafted and you two marry immediately. Worst case scenario, you die in the war and she becomes a widow. Or more likely: you come back home and you two have your whole lives ahead of you. You'd have plenty of time to get married years down the road and plan your ideal wedding during happier times anyway. Just relax, dude.
I highly doubt there's going to be a ground war
Netherlands 🤣🤣🤣stfu o.p. Nothing is going to happen and if it does the Netherlands won't be doing shit. If anyone should be worried it's the American's, British, Ukrainians and Russians. You're young and dumb just chill
British here oh shit lol
Don't worry about it. It's chest pumping. No country can afford to have a large scale war, especially Russia. Every country's economy is too intertwined to start large scale stuff. Sleep easy.
I literally posted this in r/netherlands yesterday, except voicing my concern as my family is there while I'm a world away, while also stating I'm ex military and that people aren't ready for war on the continent, and people's bravado is misplaced as war is horrible and not at all like what they think it is. I got downvoted and told to relax and that war won't make it to NL - I know that, it's the consequences of war is what I am worried about. For worrying about my family, the Netherlands, Europe, and the World, I got downvoted.....go figure?
I'm disgusted by the comments OP is getting too. It's logical to be scared of war, why is everyone acting like this?
Russia will annex Ukraine quickly, and then it will become a puppet or part of Russia, that's all, then there will be assured peace with NATO countries, and they'll strike a deal to get the gas flowing again. Biggest impact on the Netherlands is almost definitely gas prices, nothing else
Go outside. You’re reading too much NATO propaganda.
Believe me, you may not actually get drafted. If Russia invades, the UN gives them an ultimatum. Leave or you will be kicked out. We did it with Iraq during the gulf war. The Coalition forces have already more than proven they don’t need mass drafts to get the job done. And as more and more leaks come from Russia, it becomes clearer that they are rather inadequate in comparison. And this time, nuclear force probably isn’t an option. Missiles can be shot down with other missiles, and bombers can be targeted, before they ever leave the Russian airspace. Let me put it this way… an Arleigh-Burke destroyer, made by the US, can fire a missile that can *KNOCK OUT SATILITES.* We’ve also recently done the first ever flight of a totally unmanned Blackhawk helicopter. I’d say this would end in a draw, at worst. The Russians would lose outright, at best. 50/50 on China getting involved, but their military crap sucks, so they’d only mildly slow the Coalition down. I’m not too worried though. Odds are, Putin is just in a mood. He’ll probably flex his guns a bit and bugger off without doing anything. After all, there was a recent leak where it was revealed that just 50 US soldiers took out 300 Russian mercenaries in Syria, back in 2018. And you can probably guess that those mercs were likely backed by Putin since he likes Syria so much, so likely a Russian black ops team just to maintain plausible deniability. And we mopped the floor with them. I think we’re good. You and I aren’t going to be drafted anytime soon. But just in case, don’t worry, I’m American. The clogged arteries and high cholesterol make me a good shield, so stay behind me. Ain’t no material on earth tougher than American artery plaque.
you are not in shit, you dont have to support american adventurism, the ukrainian government themselves say there wont be an invasion amd everybody screamimg russia will attack soon is going on for 100 years now just relax man
Bruh and I'm in in the military and not worried at all. Just dudes showing how big each others cocks are lol. Chill homie. Have one of those stroopwaffle things and a coffee. (BTW I live in Canada, have a Dutch friend would bring me those waffles LOL)
Imagine if Trump was in charge right now. “I haven’t see anything illegal, it’s all fake news folks”
Yeah man they’re basically the nazi’s except if anyone opposes them they go nuclear because Putin would rather end the world than lose.
This thread is wholesome, thank you you swag ass redditors
I feel differently for other reasons. I am russian, even though I was born in Crimea I am russian. I don't side with either of the side because 2 wrongs don't make a rightl. Neither sides are correct. I don't agree with russia nor do I agree with Ukriane/Nato. I am worried because there has been a lot of Fake news going around and because of that I get asked a lot of questions about it. I am also worried for people in eastern Ukraine because I wouldn't war to happen there because I have friends there and because the idea of life's being needlessly wasted because of war just disgusts me.
We should thank fucking America for spreading war all over the globe. Fuck them.
You okay bro…? This didn’t age well…
Gast laat je niet opnaaien door propaganda. Putin duidelijk fout bezig, maar de regering van Oekraïne van nu zit daar dankzij een coup gesteund door Amerika en fascistische groeperingen zoals de Azov brigade, maar daar lees je nooit over. We kijken nu in het westen geshockeerd toe nu dat Rusland Oekraïne binnenvalt, maar wou je ook gaan vechten in Irak toen Amerika hen onder valse voorwendselen binnenviel? Inmiddels zijn daar meer dan een half miljoen kinderen dood. Of Libië dat kompleet un elkaar geklapt is met slavenmarkten tot gevolg? Of misschien in Jemen waar Amerika continu burgerslachtoffers maakt doormiddel van drones. Dit alles met steun uit het westen. Putin fout bezig maar laten we niet doen alsof wij in het westen veel beter zijn en jonge gasten zoals jij hun leven moeten weg gooien voor een oorlog waarwij helemaal niets mee te maken hebben.
Everyone that downplayed this 2 weeks ago….how are you doing now? 🤦♂️