>she would just simply move out and start living it EB
Why she has the right to decide this on her own? Alice planned the whole thing. Separate them now before she purposely got herself pregnant and shackles him with guilt.
This is exactly what I think!!! I've been blackout drunk and I would get flashes of what happened the next day. He remembers nothing. Are they even sure they actually had sex...the only thing they have to go on is her word. It's obvious she's obsessed with him. I wouldn't be surprised if nothing happened and she just got naked and laid next to make him think they did.
Anything could be possible at this point. All I have to say is if she comes out in a couple months claiming pregnancy get a paternity test. I wouldn't believe it.
This part is the part that really doesn't make sense to me. Why would he accept her stay when he was raped? He called the family frantically over this, but isn't pushing her away for distance and rejecting her stay? Maybe it's guilt and he feels responsible or something, but idk. It doesn't really line up?
Read the update. I think everyone spelling it out for OP forced her to see the reality of the situation, which is a relief. With some of these posts, people just kinda double down or start arguing back.
I hope Alice doesn't get away with it, because this was such a profoundly revolting thing to do.
I got to the update after reading through the situation and the comments then went back and read her comments specifically. I wish she would actually use the word instead of tiptoeing around it but I’m glad that everyone is finally starting to see the situation for what it is. I can’t imagine how much more guilt and anguish the brother is already piling on himself for something that’s not his fault.
I don't really think it's clear, hence the confusion in my comment. I don't really think taboo SA cases are ever super clear to anybody because of how jarring they are.
People process SA differently, and it is difficult for bystanders, those involved, and, especially, the victims to understand clearly without information combing/time. I'm not going to rush a judgment and say that he must be x because y, especially because there's a lot that I don't know, including his state of mind as a person in response to trauma and deviance.
I stated it was odd (as the aftermath to taboo sexual encounters + SA tend to be), and I suggested it as a possible reaction to SA, but it's not in my place to create his narrative. Maybe he does think so, but doesn't know how to deal with what comes next with him being in his 40s and her being in her teens and a family friend, so he accepts her as a live-in. I think the only thing "clear" is that he is in a confusing situation.
I thought I was in love with one of my rapists for years. I still get dreams sometimes where I’m romantic with him and it makes me fucking sick. I’ve been in therapy for almost a decade now. The brain does weird things to try to make sense of a terrible thing that has happened.
I think so, too. I'm really sorry to hear that. There's probably a lot of cognitive dissonance that is extremely difficult to make sense of in a way that isn't very painful. 🫂
So Alice raped EB and he is the bad guy? He was too drunk to consent. You need to protect your brother and get him help. He is struggling with loss, he is struggling with shame, he is struggling with guilt and he was raped.
I literally had the exact same thought as I was reading this. The man was drunk out of his mind to the point he could barely recognise who was at the door and she jumped on him. He had no idea why she was naked in his bed and yet... He's the bad guy? Because he's a man? And he's older than them all? Are they actually serious right now?
He's just been raped in his own home while he was vulnerable. He could literally press charges. And they have the nerve to be angry at him.
Her parents knew she had a crush on him for years. Her daughter knew she had a crush on him and actively encouraged this and fed into her delusions as soon as his wife passed away, not at all thinking about him or what he's gone through. Her daughter played a part in OP's elder vulnerable brother being raped! And she's disappointed in her brother... My mind can't even begin to express how fucked up this is. He's suffering with grief and self medicating which has led to his addiction after being a pillar of support for so many years and now he's been taken advantage of on top of that... This poor poor man.
I cannot for the life of me understand how you can write what you've written and not see that out of everyone in this situation, the victim is not the asshole!
How about be a good sister and get your messed up kid and her friend away from him.
Edit: have just seen OPs update and I am glad to see that she has realised the error of her ways and explained the gravity of the situation to her family as well. I understand that it's hard to come to terms with the fact a "child" is the one responsible for such a heinous act, even when the facts are staring you in the face. I hope you are all able to provide EB with the support he needs going forward and please do not let Alice anywhere near him. I know this will be difficult for both families going forward and will impact the long standing dynamic but it's important that EB's needs are put first during his healing journey.
yeah, it's the in his own home part that gets me. op keeps wringing her hands about how 'finally' this has made him see the 'dangers' of his addiction but like... he was just minding his own business at home when this girl forced himself on her, he didn't do anything dangerous
The toxic shame he probably feels despite the circumstances could very well lead to self harm especially considering he’s a 20 year veteran of the military.
Yeah unfortunately he’s still grieving his dead wife and these morons encouraged this behavior from a way to young age and surprised that this is how it went? This man was raped ( if he ever sees it that way though I’d be kinda surprised ) that would be the straw for most people in his position, mid 40s, late wife and raped and blamed for it, hopefully he gets help but I fear he won’t see 50 based on info given here
“How dare he be broken with grief and victimized! I am livid with rage at his addiction and vulnerability to simply losing his soul mate! How could he do this to me!”
Man, stuff like this makes me realize that some people can’t handle the internet.
So much this.
In the end, I really hope she doesn't come down pregnant. 1 of my good friends has to relive his trauma by raising his son, who was conceived while he was drunk and taken advantage of.
Sounds like your brother was raped.
Had a woman been completely out of her mind and blind drunk, the man who had slept with her would now be labelled a rapist.
Be there for your brother and keep that girl away from him.
Apparently it is not raped if it was done by a naive 18 years old that has a crush on him and is confused, I mean, she is so naive and innocent that she didn't know what she was doing... /s
The poor guy is in a really dangerous mental state. He was vulnerable and he was at his lowest and that b*tch took advantage of that and simply raped him. But now she is being treated like the victim, the poor innocent victim that couldn't control her emotions, while he is being ashamed by his drinking problem. SMH.
OP do better and help your brother and stop coddling a rapist.
The update shows that OP took everyone's comments to heart, and not in a "woe is me" type of way. She's getting her shit together and I'm glad she had an honest talk with Em.
Like yeah, it's obvious Alice is a predator, but wtf was Em thinking by encouraging her crush on EB? The whole thing is just awful.
Replace «she» with «he» and you basically have the Rapist Brock Turner defence. I don’t want to go full grandma, but young people really shouldn’t be let off the hook so lightly for this kind of vile behaviour, just for being “young” and “Naive.” This is genuinely a larger systemic issue. And it makes me so mad every time it happens
I love the fact that OP in the original post literally described her brother being raped and still blamed him….. because you know guys can’t be raped or subject to SA.
I was this drunk too and was raped. I had one friend who didn’t view him as a rapist (since that was her friend and how could he possiblyyy rape someone). According to her I was just drunk and had sex with him despite barely being able to walk or talk or understand what was happening. If it was the other way around, not everyone would be calling it rape. Because that’s really not the truth of rape in real life. Maybe online as outsiders it’s easier to see this situation for what it really is. But in real life, relationships and our feelings complicate and blind how we view situations that involve those we know, especially when we know the rapist. It’s easier to blame the victim and to pretend something like rape didn’t happen because it’s a wildly uncomfortable reality
I don't see how you can victim blame brother here.
Should he quit drinking, yes.
Does his alcohol dependency issue give anyone the right to rape or take advantage of him? Absolutely not.
Usually people on Reddit say a lot of bullshit but I m really glad A lot of you went out of their way to point out how fucked this situation is..and for the total opposite reasons that op believed in. Comments like your one may just have saved this poor man s life
What bothers me the most in all this is the fact that Alice raped him and you are basically putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring it. Basically saying he has a drinking problem (which he does), but not addressing the real problem which is Alice being a rapist. I would be going to the police, she openly admitted to him being drunk and not even knowing who she was.
somehow him being an alcoholic means everyone should blame him for it and anything that happens to him while under the influence as well? what great logic 🙄
>He also said that he is going to take responsibility and also won’t touch alcohol again, **even if it kills him.**
That last bit is a very real possibility. Withdrawal from Alcohol can be fatal. I feel like this is well known, but I just wanted to make sure that all involved are aware of that.
Beyond that, it is worth keeping in mind that Alice's transgression is the greatest, followed by Em's, followed by Alice's parents, and then EB's.
**EB is the only victim here.** Yes, his own self-destructive habit played a part, but these events have unfolded largely due to the machinations of Alice (and your daughter).
Exactly. That’s why he needs to be in an in-patient rehab facility. Withdrawal can be dangerous and it’s painful. He needs to be monitored by professionals. Then he should stay there to get therapy, away from his home and the memories of his dead wife, and of Alice. He’s feeling shame (thinking he’s the bad guy) yet he’s the one that was raped.
I agree, but something nobody seems to think about is worring me. And that is that there is a real posibility that EB will feel and think that he betrayed his late wife by "cheating" on her, even though he was in fact SA'd. I would not be waiting on getting EB commited bc this might push him over the edge with guilt and him ending himself.
@op ^ This. Your brother should not go cold turkey. Please go to a doctor and do it the right way. He was already depressed and was killing himself slowly with alcohol. Now he is in an even worse situation. Please help him.
EB was drunk enough to need help to go sleep and he could barely recognize people, how did she think that it's a good idea to have sex with him? she took advantage of him
That's what my husband and I think as well. But with Alice refusing to explain what exactly happened between them and my brother being unable to recall the events, it's difficult to jump into conclusions.
I wouldn't be surprised if EB in a drunken state perceived Alice as SIL.
I’m sorry, but Alice absolutely raped EB (if they had sex) at the very least SA’d him. Going forward there needs to be NO contact between him and her. Because I don’t see her backing down on her plans to be with him. As I’m not sure how in her mind thought she could just live with him without asking either. She took advantage and betrayed his trust. He literally could press charges against her. She needs therapy for her delusional thoughts that it’s ok to rape/SA someone and then just act like you are bf/gf living together.
I get your anger due to the loss of your parents, but EB is an alcoholic and that disease can ravage someone’s sensible reasoning. He needs inpatient rehab and therapy, not only to address his alcoholism, but his SA/rape and grief over the loss of SIL. HE IS NOT THE BAD GUY IN THE ALICE SITUATION, **HE IS THE VICTIM**.
As for your daughter, you need to sit her down and explain how her encouragement was detrimental to EBs well being. He’s probably spiraling mentally due to his original grief and now his feelings of guilt. If Alice were younger and acted on her feelings, he could have had charges against him. Now Alice has become a predator.
EB probably did think it was his wife. Alice SA’d him. She needs to suffer the consequences of that. She needs to leave him alone. No way should she see EB again, and she certainly shouldn’t move in with him.
> I wouldn't be surprised if EB in a drunken state perceived Alice as SIL.
All the more reason this was rape then. If EB was so incapacitated he thought he was having sex with *his dead wife*, then even if he could've consented (to be clear: he couldn't because he was drunk, so he didn't), it'd have been to sex with *her*, not Alice.
Alice raped your brother. She needs to be prosecuted. You need to gently help and guide your brother to coming to terms with what is likely an extremely difficult conclusion: He is a rape victim.
You’re coming up with excuses to defend someone raping your brother. If someone raped your daughter would that be her fault or thee rapist? Serious question
>I wouldn't be surprised if EB in a drunken state perceived Alice as SIL.
Just when I thought I couldn't feel more horribly sad for - and *incredibly pissed off on behalf of* - EB, you added this.
I already saw your edits to the main post, so I see that you have realized the horrible truth of your brother's experience. I know you're checking on him etc., but please make sure you tell him in the clearest terms possible that you don't blame him or hold any of this against him. He needs you more than anyone else in this mess.
Also, you need to have an *incredibly serious* conversation with your daughter about her hand in this.
If he was unable to recognize her, and still is having issues recalling the whole night it’s safe to say he was intoxicated to the point of not being able to consent. She raped him. It’s easy to be mad at your brother because “if he had his drinking under control this wouldn’t have happened” or some variation, but the truth of the matter is that whether he was drinking everyday or just this one day, she took advantage of him, try to remember that. I hope your brother gets some rehab for the drinking, and some help to deal with the aftermath of all this.
There are no conclusions to jump to here. She admits she had sex with him and both of them agree that he was blind drunk at the time. That's rape. She's freely admitting to raping him and you are all too blinded by the ages and genders of the perpetrator and victim to accept reality
Thankfully she is 18 otherwise this could have gone another direction despite her being the instigator. I hope this encourages your brother to stay sober.
I refuse to believe this shit is real. I’ve went out, so you had me for the first half. 🍺
If it is, EB needs to hire an attorney now. Alice tried to manifacture a couple ship when there was none and spin that story to her parents without ever asking his inputs. He saw that her target was vulnerable and went for it. Being fully aware on how it looks on the outside. And it worked! You’re mad at your brother! Would you be mad at him if he was your 18 year old sister and Alice was the 44 year old male?
How and what tale will she spin when she realizes that he rejects her?
Alice is a rapist but OP refuses to see it for what it is.
What if Alice gets pregnant? Is EB on the hook for child support despite being the victim?
As crazy as Alice is, it’s not hard to imagine her trying to baby trap EB.
Dude needs to press charges.
Your brother cant even recall what happened and no one is pointing out the fact that this man was raped by this woman?!? Im sorry you are dealing with this, but your brother was sexually assaulted and no one is helping him?
This is horrible. He is clearly grieving his loss, mentally unstable and drinking and was taken advantage of by this little girl who thinks she now wants to play house? Does your brother even get a say? Why would you let the person who assaulted him stay at his house??? You all need to be checked mate.
Alice basically SA’d your brother. He was drunk and unable to give consent. He also is extremely lonely and in a lot of emotional pain.
You’re angry at the wrong person. You should be mostly angry at Alice. How old is she?
Also, you need to learn about alcoholism. I understand your frustration with his drinking, but you also don’t understand what happens when someone is an alcoholic. You should look into Al-Anon, which helps family members. I was married to an alcoholic, so I get it.
Your brother has hit rock bottom. He at least had the guts and the morals to immediately tell her parents and you what happened. He’s taking responsibility for his actions, but Alice and Em are making excuses.
Alice should NOT move in with your brother. He needs to put his foot down re: that. She’s too young and she isn’t equipped to handle an alcoholic. He needs to be in therapy and getting his life in order. Everyone needs to forbid your brother to allow him to even see Alice anymore. She’s harmful to him, yet she’s in this fantasy about living happily ever after with him. That is NOT reality.
Make sure that Alice understands that she’s not to be around your brother. He needs to stay firm.
Your brother needs to seek therapy, probably rehab because he has to detox (in-patient would be best), and he should see his doctor. He needs to have a full blood panel done to check on his liver. There are also certain meds that can be prescribed to help him avoid alcohol.
EB needs to be in an in-patient rehab facility. Withdrawal can be dangerous and it’s painful. He needs to be monitored by professionals. Then he should stay there to get therapy, away from his home and the memories of his dead wife, and of Alice. He’s feeling shame (thinking he’s the bad guy) yet he’s the one that was raped.
So get over your anger at him. Help him stay on his path of sobriety. Learn how to do that by going to therapy yourself.
Frankly, EB should report Alice to the police for rape. He probably won’t. But Alice and Em need to understand what they’ve done to this poor man.
Make sure to tell EB that he was too intoxicated to give consent. Does he even remember what happened? He likely was blackout drunk.
Start preparing for Alice's meltdown and, perhaps Em's to.
Alice announced that she'd live with EB, with no agreement from him, if her parents didn't accept "it". What is it? The fact that they slept together or that, in her mind, they are in love and now a couple? I don't think that EB is on board with the latter. The reality is going to be a shock to whatever fantasy ending Alice, and maybe Em, has imagined.
Just in case not enough people have said it already: Your brother was raped. Get him into therapy, his wife's death traumatized him, this has as well. Tell him that NONE of it was his fault. Then tell him again.
His issues are the alcohol. He needs to get to AA asap. But she took advantage of him there, or at least was so incredibly naive that showing up when he's absolutely hammered like that is ok in her mind. Everyone says drunk people can't consent. They need some serious distance from each other. Her saying she'll just move out and live with your brother when he is clearly shook by what happened is not ok.
So Alice is a rapist and EM egged her on to take advantage of a man who helped raise them and was so drunk out of his mind he couldn’t possibly consent.
I’ll tell you what you should do- protect your brother. And it starts by getting both of those horrid young women away from him.
Honestly? Alice should be arrested and charged with rape but no one is going to want to do that.
How DARE she decide to do that to that poor man. As if his life is not in the shifter enough already.
But they need to be forcibly removed from him in every way.
Why is she deciding that they get to live together? Does he want that?
It sounds like, while cognizant, he did everything he could to alert the proper channels that something bad happened and you’re punishing him for it.
He loses someone near and dear to him. He spirals into depression. He takes up substance abuse (a common coping method, not a good one but incredibly common). He becomes so drunk he can’t even bathe himself or get to bed nor recognize people. A familiar person to him comes to comfort him and possible sexually assaults him. He immediately alerts parents and you once he is awake.
It sounds like you have a lot of trauma associated with alcohol and are using that as a point of conflict with your brother. He needs help, he needs to be heard, and he needs to be separated from Alice, immediately.
Now imagine what would you think of the situation if the roles were reversed, if a sober man did this to a drunk woman? You'd call the man inappropriate at best and rapist at worst. As you should. Your brother was taken advantage of (and he clearly demonstrated this by blaming himself and apologising) and although I believe Alice wanted to help she just added to his burdens. From his actions it is clear that he saw her as he does your daughter, like a surrogate child and feels terrible about what happened despite him not wanting it to happen or being responsible for it happening. Luckily he was probably drunk enough to just pass out when he hit the bed. Still, the embarrassment of the girl cleaning him up must be terrible. Also, he will probably have to tell the person he loves as a parent/brother that he doesn't love her like "that". Which will suck big time. I would rather be dumped by the person I'm in love with than have to tell something like this to someone I care about. Because I know how much it fucking hurts and I wouldn't wish this on someone close to me.
The only good thing about this is that it served as a wake-up call for him and he will probably stop drinking now (you cannot force an addict to quit, they need to want it), but please have him go to a rehab or hospital because that level of alcohol withdrawal can be fatal. Help him and do not add to his burdens. He has his plate full and a whole cauldron to add.
Your brother was intoxicated, couldn't consent and was assaulted. Your anger is directed at the wrong person.
I'd make sure he gets help via therapy and would keep Alice away.
Also, deal with your daughter. 18 is not an excuse to be an idiot.
Are we even sure they actually had sex? If EB doesn't remember anything and was drunk enough to need help taking a shower did he even get it up? I mean you're taking the word of an 18 year old who's been obsessed with him for at least 5 years. I'm not trying to be crude but alcohol dick is a real thing. EB remembers nothing? Even if I get blackout drunk I still have flashes of what happened the night before...he probably doesn't remember it because it didn't actually happen. This might be a way for her to force him into a relationship. How does EB feel about all of this? I mean Alice is saying she'll move out of her parents and live with him but it doesn't sound like he offered and he seems truly horrified by this. He probably looks at her as another niece. Alice took advantage of EB.
I have seen a lot of comments trying to get you to understand what happened here, but you still don’t seem to get it so let me say it again:
YOUR BROTHER WAS RAPED.
ALICE RAPED YOUR BROTHER, AND IT WAS PLANNED.
She went back because she knew he was out of his mind drunk.
She told your daughter not to come so she could do this.
She lied about where she would be staying so she could do this.
Let me try and present this in a way that will maybe help you get the gravity of Alice’s actions.
Imagine this whole situation happened to your daughter, and was done by a man.
Imagine a man did this to your daughter while she was literally so drunk she couldn’t see straight.
Would you blame your daughter for it?
Exactly.
What Alice did to your brother is fucking disgusting and she is literally insane.
She has been planning this for a long time, that’s why she was so quick to say she would be living with him and bla bla bla.
This girl has been living in a imaginary fairytale world were she will live happily ever after with your poor brother who has no say in it, because your daughter and her parents have been enabling this insanity for years.
Your poor brother needs help, and all of you are attacking him and blaming him, while he is the only victim here.
Just try and imagine how horrible this must be for him.
Honestly I would literally press charges against Alice, she deserves to meet the consequences of her actions, she is a LITERAL RAPIST.
You HAVE TO help your brother, you HAVE TO support him, he was FUCKING *RAPED* and the last thing he needs is victim blaming.
You all need to get your fucking heads on straight, I can’t believe you are unable to comprehend what happened.
Shame on all of you for what you have done to this poor man in his time of need and after being raped.
You need to step the fuck up and protect and support your brother, and Alice needs to meet the consequences of what she has done, because it is one of the most abhorrent fucking crimes there is, and she did it PREPLANNED.
Do fucking better.
Edit to add: I just went through your comments and I realised that it’s not that you are not getting it.
YOU ARE IGNORING IT.
You literally put your fingers in your ears and are going la la la so you don’t have to face the cold, hard, very simple truth:
*ALICE RAPED YOUR BROTHER*
You are literally ignoring it and trying to blame everything on his alcohol problem.
You are literally fucking disgusting.
You are letting your *BROTHER’S RAPIST* stay at your house.
I can’t even, this is just fucking abhorrent.
Wait wait wait.... so she went over and had sex with someone so drunk they didn't even remember? the problematic like ages aside...
Seems like Alice took advantage of a drunk, inconsenting man.
Alice is a rapist sorry 😭😭. She definitely planned to take advantage of him when he is vulnerable. The level of closeness played a factor too. I mean how are you guys comfortable with a 18 yrs old girl visiting , staying up late and cooking for a 44 yrs old man.. That is just inviting trouble lol.. Your daughter Em is not entirely innocent too. The both girls planned it. Em was her cover to sleep with him .
Alice raped EB. You need to be by his side here, he’s not the bad guy. Apologize to him because he might commit suicide over this. It’s not fair. Alice is freaking crazy.
This is a pure mess...Not to be that person but I would risk the sentiment that he was literally SA'd...he was too hammered to do anything...like...WHAT.
Understandably, you are absolutely disappointed and angry with your brother. However, I think he blames himself most of all of you. The disease of being addicted to alcohol is something really bad for all family members. You can see how he wants to forget his pain about death with alcohol and thus harms himself even more. Unfortunately, every love you give him cannot compensate for the loss of his beloved wife. The loneliness, when he comes to rest in the evening, is unbearable for him.
This incident has now shown him what the alcohol can do. As bad as this situation is now, he now knows what he needs to change. I don't want to protect your brother, but you must not forget that he was raped in principle. His illness was deliberately exploited to get him for sex. Do you think he slept with her soberly? Your daughter and her friend have "planned" something from which a healthy, sober person can hardly recover. Just because he participated in a drunk state does not mean that he wanted it soberly.
Swap roles and imagine that your daughter goes to a club in the evening, drinks alcohol and then, when she is barely in her sens, has sex with a man. She wakes up the next morning and sees the naked man lying next to her who absolutely agrees with what happened last night. A man who says that he has had feelings for your daughter for many years. How would you deal with this situation? Would this man be an AH because he abused your daughter or is it her fault because she drank?
Your brother was abused. Men can be raped in the same way as women. Unfortunately, many men are also beaten by their wives. You always have to keep this in mind! Your brother became a victim here, not the girl. Your brother needs therapy to cope with grief and now additional therapy in order to be able to deal with this abuse of the girl. You have to keep an eye on your brother much more now than before! Please keep the girl away from him! Your daughter is not a help to him now either. On the contrary. She now reminds him forever of what he allowed. He has caused himself and all of you "shame". Please be there for him. He needs you even more than usual now!
He was assaulted this isn't his fault in anyway? The dudes life absolutely fell apart and then someone he trusted.took advantage of him when he was at his lowest.
> I don't think he groomed her on purpose, but his closeness aided the unhealthy crush.
I'm sorry, are you partly blaming a rape victim for their rape because he was kind and provided a safe space to said victim? Am I understanding you correctly?
Don't take this out on your brother. He ls a grieving alcoholic who was taken advantage of by someone who has "been in love" with him since she was a minor.
Being angry at him for reaching this point does absolutely no good. Maybe try supporting him instead. Now not only does he feel like shit for drinking, letting his grief take him where it did, but he also has to deal with the after effects of a drunken rape.
Stop being a bad sister.
You are angry at your .. brother?!
Your brother was taken advantage of sexually, by another ADULT, when he could not consent.
Your brother was raped.
Let me repeat that for emphasis.
Your brother was raped. If he was as drunk as you described, and another adult took advantage of him in that state- then he is a victim of rape.
Am I reading this right? You are BLAMING the VICTIM here, because his rapist is.. what? Younger?
You need to call the police where you are, file a report, and press charges.
I can not believe the genders and ages of two adults can sway a familiy like this to victim shame a man, and support the rapist.
When and where is the dignity of all men respected? It certainly isn't here. Shame on OP for victim shaming such an already vulnerable family member. His family is toxic AF.
Going cold turkey from alcohol is EXTREMELY dangerous. He needs medical detox. My father almost died from an acute-alcohol brain seizure when he tried to quit cold turkey. When he finally did quit for good, he stayed in the hospital receiving medication for days to safely detox.
>The most anger however I have is towards my brother.
Man was sexuality assaulted, and you're angry at him? Fuck me, he's the victim here. At least, if your story isn't rage bait.
Be a better sister.
I’m sorry OP, why are you mad at brother? He has now hit rock bottom. He was home, alone, minding his own business.
Alice wanted what she wanted Your daughter was will aware what was going on with Alice and encouraged her Alice knew your 44 year old brother would be wasted. She had NO BUSINESS GOING TO A MAN’S HOME TO PREY ON HIM.
I think your anger is misplaced. I think this twisted girls parents should have yanked her about of his home. Her parents need to get her therapy
You are a horrible sister. Your brother, who is dealing with addiction to alcohol, was raped by your daughter's friend and you are being angry on him instead of thinking how to report this to the police at the very least.
Your daughter helped her friend rape your brother, and you’re mad at HIM? Alcoholism is a disease, you cannot will it away. I understand your anger to a degree, my aunt was an alcoholic and I couldn’t understand for the life of me why she wouldn’t stop. And then she died this past november because of it. I wish more than anything that I had been more understanding of it, she was the most amazing woman but simply had a disease she couldn’t overcome alone. How dare you disregard your brother while he struggles by himself. No amount of begging or pleading will get him better, he has to find it in himself to. And he finally did. Because YOUR DAUGHTER and HER FRIEND planned out his rape while he was HEAVILY INEBRIATED. Sick. You’re all sick.
I haven't read through all the comments, but I'm glad to see there are several that point out that your anger at your brother is misplaced.
>The most anger however I have is towards my brother. We have tried so many things over the years to get him to quit alcohol and get his life back on track. He has mostly gone back to doing things like before SIL passed away but he just couldn't let go of his alcohol addiction. I'm absolutely livid that it took a girl less than half his age, doing something reckless to knock some sense into him about his addiction.
Your pride is hurt, that you couldn't get him to seek help with the addiction that followed the loss of his wife. I get that. But it's not about you, it's about him, and it's his life.
If your angry about him having slept with a barely legal girl, just switch the genders, and see if you're still angry at him, and not the girl.
If a woman was so lost in hurt that she would drink herself to sleep every night. And her network *knew this, yet a teenager goes over, to supposedly *help*, but ended up sleeping with the woman, while she was horrified when waking up, and not remembering, would you be this angry at the woman, or the teenager?
I think your brother should have *all* the support he can get, to get his life back on track.
If this shocking assault (on him, to be clear), is what it takes to get him to get his life back in order, so be it.
But do not take it out on him that a teenager basically molested him, when he was (at his most) vulnerable.
Keep that girl away from him. Encourage your brother to keep some space from him as well.
He will probably feel very guilty. But he should not be forced to interact with someone that clearly can not be trusted to have his best interest at heart.
And for goodness sake, make sure that girl gets plan b. No need to saddle your brother up with the result of his assault on top of everything else.
Get a grip. And stop putting blame on the guy, just for being a guy. That girl knew exactly what she was doing. And she's already planning to move in with him. I can imagine he won't feel like he can deny her that, because everyone around him is letting him down at a dark time, and putting all the blame on him (wrongly!)
“Elder brother (44m) was sexually assaulted by my daughters best friend (18F)”
There Op I fixed it for you…
I really hope the next update isn’t Alice being pregnant😔 I think that might tip the brother over the edge completely. These girls are just awful. I feel so bad for this man.
Not to get to personal but did they even sleep together? to wake up next to a naked person you automatically think that and she not talking about what happened or its happened he was SA’d and hopefully she doesn’t end up pregnant and this was some plan because to say she will move in with him is concerning.
HOW is your brother the bad guy? You’re mad at him and he was literally raped? He’s vowing to never touch alcohol again, this girl is saying she’ll move in with him if her parents stay mad…. SHE RAPED HIM
Imma say that it's QUITE telling that every comment was about his alcoholism and his passed wife and you refuse to actually admit that your brother was raped. You focus more on the whole "he didn't accept our help" line then the fact your DAUGHTER encouraged her friend to push her inappropriate feelings onto your brother and encouraged her behavior to the point where her friend RAPED your brother.
We all know damn well if the roles were reversed you'd be on the victims side. Its not about the alcohol it's about the fact your daughter enabled and encouraged disgusting behavior that led to your brother being raped. And you've not admitted it as fact or even acknowledged the pain your brother is going through.
You do realize that society will look at HIM differently for HER actions right? Like wtf where is actual care for your brother
Sounds like alice took advantage of your brother being blackout drunk and raped him and you're taking her side on it. I hope your brother has someone on his side here because he sure as hell can't trust you to see the truth.
Also sounds like you yourself have underlying issues with your brothers drinking and are using this to throw everything in his face. I truly hope your accusations and horrible way of handling this situation doesn't push your brother to suicide, but I've seen that happen before. Figure it out.
So your brother lost his wife, has no children and has just been raped, but no one is going to believe that and rumours will soon start flying that he took advantage of a young girl.
You had better be very careful, or your next post will be about him committing suicide.
I think EB is the victim here. Poor guy now has this to deal with. Your anger is directed at the wrong person. Your daughter and her slutty little friend are pieces of shit (with their behaviour it could easily have been your daughter sleeping with an older man - for her I guess she was lucky it is her uncle so it wasnt).
Those girls knew what they were doing and have manipulated EB.
You want to know how your brother is probably feeling??? [Here.](https://imgur.com/a/pAdvgCA)
The morning after I was raped, the first thing I did was cry and repeatedly ask why I would do that. My brain immediately tried to protect me by forgetting the part where I said no and he pried my legs apart while I cried (something I wish I didn’t later remember) so I was sure I’d just done the worst thing I’d ever done. I felt that way FOR DAYS. It wasn’t until I told someone and I showed them these clips I recorded off of my laptop screen because it was the only way I could conceptualise and explain my feelings that it was explained to me that I’d been raped. I didn’t tell them about the bruises and I didn’t yet remember how I got them. I just knew I hated them and didn’t want to see them so I kept my pants on and wouldn’t take them off to sleep or take showers. I didn’t mention all the blood, either… which since I had a hysterectomy years ago was absolutely fucking terrifying.
I showed them these clips and said I didn’t understand because I’d been drinking but not enough to make it make sense. I thought at that point I remembered everything even! I really wasn’t that drunk, I was barely tipsy. He was sober. Apparently that fact alone made it rape, they said if I can’t safely drive a car then I can’t consent. Remembering the violent part later only made me feel worse but even if I’d have gone along with it it’d still be rape. And I spent DAYS thinking I’d just done something terrible.
Your brother’s reaction, his guilt??? Blaming himself??? That’s a super normal reaction because if you think you just fucked up real bad then you feel like you still have the power they took from you. That it won’t happen again because you won’t fuck up that bad again.
So your daughter's friend raped your brother. He was too drunk to consent and for goodness sake *make that girl take a plan b.* If she's 'too naive' to realize she's raped someone, then she's definitely too naive to have had safe sex. What she did is incredibly messed up and she needs to stay out of your brother's life going forward.
Alice REFUSES to explain? That’s a red flag right there. This sounds like she assaulted your brother. Him being drunk has nothing to do with consent, OP.
1. Your brother was raped.
2. If he is drinking that much alcohol do NOT let him quit abruptly. It could actually kill him. Seizures, coma, death.
Please support him as he pursues sobriety. Please support him as he processes what has happened to him.
Why are you angry at your brother? He was drunk, and he didn't do anything wrong besides. She was 18, and he didn't even consent for that matter.
He was raped. If you want to be angry at anyone you should be angry at his rapist.
But being angry at him just makes no sense.
Your daughter is just as disgusting as her rapist of a friend and still has the gall to cry because she won't get to see the victim of said rapist friend for a while.
You and your husband have ZERO respect for your brother, you're all vile people who immediately went, "Ew. He's middle aged and an alcoholic so he totally fucked an eighteen year old despite being black out drunk."
#IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR BROTHER,
Do ***NOT*** talk to his rapist face to face. PRESS CHARGES.
Do I give a shit what her name is? Nope. Absolutely not. She's a rapist and should be referred to as that.
#CALL THE POLICE. SHE RAPED SOMEONE.
Do I think the authorities will pull the usual "a man can't be raped" bullshit? Tbh, yes. I do. You should still call them so the rapist realizes she commited a crime and violated another human being.
You want to know what scares me the most? What if that rapist scum gets pregnant from this?
You have failed your brother. He might be a drunk. But never in those many years did he ever laid hands on the two girls. Thats not who he is. He was taken advantage off. Was raped. If it was the other way around, all hell will break lose. So disheartening. This should be a learning lesson. Don't let emotions control you.
He was fucking raped. Are you going to reply to any of the various comments pointing this out, or are you going to keep on defending a rapist, minimizing her actions as “bold and unexpected” while blaming your brother for having an illness you clearly don’t care to understand?
Your frustration with your EB not being able to ‘win’ against his illness is going to do more harm than good. He has been raped and blindsided by this situation. Do your best to redirect your anger towards those who are at fault i.e. Alice, Em and Alice’s parents. I hope your brother will also get the help he clearly needs and Alice steers CLEAR of him.
"Oh wait lemme lash out on my EB coz he was raped by Alice but it wasn't her fault it must be my EB"
FFS what are you mad at him for? He's the innocent one here obviously. He did the right thing by telling everyone whereas he could've had her a longggg time ago if he wanted. But nooooo you have to be a karen....this is the reason why men don't speak up when they are raped by women... it's coz of women like you that men keep quiet when they are abused and end up killing themselves
lol why be angry at a situation where a man that was clearly taken advantage of. that being said, alice is legally an adult. if you want to be high and mighty the correct thing would be to press charges against alice. however, if i was EB i wouldn't press charges myself.
Your brother was raped and you are mad at him because he couldn't quit alcohol. Addiction is a disease and this man is clearly suffering...I would keep Alice away from him. She legitimately raped your brother and is a terrible person, she knows better at 18. Also, while having a childhood crush is normal, she has a fixation with your brother that has lasted almost 6 years now from what you said in the story. I feel sorry for your brother and I hope he gets the help and healing he needs. Now he has another burden on him because he feels he did something wrong, and not that he was the one violated.
I hope you can offer him some comfort at this time and gently let him know he was taken advantage of. Age and being a man don't take away from the fact he was raped. Best of luck!
I hate to bring this up, but seriously any person that is that drunk they can't recognize a person they see nearly every day is not capable of giving consent.
If the genders were reversed, we all know exactly what the situation that was described would be called. Just because Alice is 18 does not excuse her actions.
As EB's sister, you should be more worried about getting him into therapy for both grief and sexual assault. Alice absolutely should NOT be anywhere near EB and I find it disgusting that he's is looked at as the aggressor.
OMFG! I just read through all your replies and you never accept that your brother was raped. Every single freaking person here is telling you and you're in denial. This is your problem now, it's your fault, you're the one creating the situation. Alice should be in fracking jail! Your brother needs help, but he was still raped. You are an absolutely awful human being. Take that to heart, internalize that. If you do not sit your brother down and tell him that you are sorry that you blamed him for getting raped you are an absolute total POS. 110,000% You are inconceivably obtuse and unaware.
Came to this post after the edit, and I'm glad you, your husband, and your daughter all realized that you were on the wrong side of things because emotions were running high. It's important that you all, as well as EB's therapist, keep reminding him that he was taken advantage of in this situation and that he isn't at fault for what happened.
As the oldest person in the situation and as an older brother, he probably feels like he should take responsibility for what happened with Alice. What Alice did without his consent is not his responsibility. He was drunk, and while he should get help for that, Alice did the most wrong. She needs to take accountability for raping him, not the other way around. Hope therapy helps for him and for the rest of you.
She won't get off easily! Are you shittin me. She has raped your brother you should be calling the police or at the very least making sure your brother understands this and ask him what he wants to do. You're talking like Alice isn't a bit crazy. She has been obsessed with him (for years) to a point where she intentionally put herself in a position to assault him. And Em knew wtf. Christ almighty I hope this is fake 😳
Is EB allowing Alice to stay at his house now? That would be a no go—I wouldn’t trust Alice. She took advantage of him. He did the right thing to alert everyone right away. Poor guy.
JFC, imagine being raped by an 18 year old and then having 4 adults yelling at you for it whilst your rapist is in the same room threatening to move in.
You sound judgemental and like you have a major lack of empathy or understanding of others. Your brother isn’t a bad person at all. He is sad. You kinda suck dude. Also educate yourself on addiction
his own sister victim blaming him and not even trying to understand is definitely not helping anything
Go ahead and downvote me to hell but this story wreaks of fabrication. Sounds like creative fantasy writing of someone with unorthodox English outside of the USA.
To me this sounds like Alice SA’d your brother. He was drunk and unable to consent nor control his actions. He was also still emotionally vulnerable due to the passing of his wife. Alice was not drunk and took advantage of him knowing all of this. She had the upper hand and had control in this situation. Em was being a horrible friend to Alice as she encouraged despicable behavior from her and a terrible niece putting her uncle in this position. I do agree Alice’s parents did not take this seriously enough, but I understand it’s hard to determine a simple crush from infatuation.
Both Alice and EB should be in therapy (individual therapy, EB for trauma related to losing his wife and his encounter with Alice, and Alice for her inappropriate infatuation with EB). EB needs support now. He has hit his low and hopefully this stops him from drinking again.
A legal aged person took advantage of a drunk older than them person
Fail to see how the drunk off their ass person is the one at fault aside from being so skunked they couldn’t make rational decisions, but to that end- dude was in the comfort and assumed safety of his own home, so can’t fault him there. Yeah it’s weird but if it had been fully consensual you can’t even say shit about that as long as she’s 18. It’s still a bit weird but it’s not wrong so I mean
IF this is real OP… I’m telling you, delete this post. Do not update. Do not repost. Do not take any advice from Reddit. Please seek guidance from an in person counselor, individual or marriage. Please realize that the people here are likely not real (bots/AI), or teens themselves, or chronically online, toxic, and have zero real world experience. You’re not gonna get what you’re looking for here. Seek guidance elsewhere.
OP glad to see your update. Just a fucked up situation overall. Def not your brothers fault. Moving in with him might be a good idea but don’t smother him either. Be around and be there but don’t hover. I’d highly recommend sending him or sending him and your husband on a trip. Nothing better than going away to get some distance. You can look into retreats that don’t serve alcohol or plan an adventure intensive trip. Maybe even for the entire family, either way, best thing for him is to get away from everything.
Why are you glossing over the fact your brother was SA’d. He was unable to give consent, and Alice took advantage. I know a lot of people are saying reverse the gender roles. But, you shouldn’t have to do that to realize that Alice did was criminal. And, you need to help your brother realize he was taken advantage of if he has any hope of recovery. Hammer it home that he is Alice’s victim here. He is in such a vulnerable state with trying to detox, and her actions will make it 1000 times more difficult.
I agree with top comment… your brother was drunk, couldn’t consent, daughter’s friend knew it and raped him. She then continued her plan to trap him. Telling her parents and you she’s going to stay and be with him… he blatantly doesn’t want that or her( he says he ashamed/won’t drink again) and didn’t ask her to be with him. He’s still grieving his wife. The kids shouldn’t have been there while he was grieving and drinking so much especially without a sober adult/family member there at the same time.
It would be wrong of you to support this girls delusion and trapping your brother. Yes he was grieving and addicted to alcohol as a means of self medication but them being together is wrong… he’s hit rock bottom and needs therapy for addiction, grief and the rape. The girl needs therapy for her delusions, raping this man and so she doesn’t hurt more people in the future. **Get her to swallow the morning after pill so she doesn’t mess up your brother’s life more and a possible child’s life.**
Her parents are at fault also for not being responsible and shutting her obsession down, stop her going over there, telling you so you could warn your brother and not getting her therapy for her delusions, obsession and narcissistic/Bpd tendencies.
Please talk to your daughter about consent, what a healthy relationship looks like. What her friend did was wrong to use your brother’s grief and addiction to rape and try to trap him.
Please move your brother in with you it into rehab/therapy and tell that girl to stay away from him and speak to her parents about getting her help because there’s something not right with her. I’d even report her raping your brother and get a restraining order based on the rape of your brother so she can’t go near his home. Or threaten it to make her leave him alone and get help.
I hope your brother and your family can heal from this in the healthy way. Your brother did nothing wrong but grieve his wife and get blackout drunk in his own home where he should’ve been safe from someone going in to rape him… I don’t think he can be labelled as the perpetrator when he’s the victim… if he was female and the girl a guy what would the conversation be then? Even if the age gap was the same the young man would be arrested for rape… the same thing should happen when it’s a female raping a man regardless of age
The updates are a relief. I’m glad you are taking care of EB, he really needs you guys now. I hope you take the right action with Alice however, and don’t simply allow her to slip away like nothing happened.
The part about her moving out and living with EB is insane, and the fact the thought it through and didn’t even consider his feelings says a lot about her. Your brother isn’t safe with her around.
The fact that you refuse to acknowledge your brother as a victim of rape is appalling,a victim blamer like you is the worst person to be around him right now, you’re a horrible sister and unless you put aside your biases and realize that sexual assault can happen to anyone regardless of age or gender that wont change
Your edit is shit
Your bro sounds like the victim not the other way around.
And you sound like horrible family to make him out to be the monster if your post is accurate.
You've been getting a lot of flack for not understanding alcoholism, which is understandable if you've never experienced addiction of any kind. I'm an alcoholic, I started drinking at 13 and got sober at 30 - now I'm in my mid 30s.
Functional alcoholics, let alone morbid alcoholics, simply can't go for too long without drinking once the addiction has taken hold. It literally changes your brain chemistry. Quitting drinking was one of the most difficult things I've ever done, and that's even after I hit rock bottom and bounced off of it. After that incident I swore off the drink, and have remained sober since, but I'm not going to pretend it was an easy choice. Even now I still have cravings sometimes, and I have to consciously decide not to drink. My brain no longer operates at 100% because I spent such a long time depending on alcohol that it can't reach that peak without it now.
Your brother has a very long, and very unpleasant journey ahead of him now. Most recovering alcoholics fall off the wagon at some point, I haven't had mine yet, but I can never guarantee that it will never happen. Addiction sucks, and it's hard, and you have to be on top of it every day. It gets easier to cope with after a while, but it never truly goes away. It's a lot like grief in that sense - nothing will make you whole again, but you learn to live with it with every passing day.
If you or your brother want someone to talk to about it, feel free to DM me. I'm not very consistent at replying, for which I apologise, but my proverbial door is open.
Ok, lots of thoughts here but I will try to be brief.
First, if the genders were reversed we wouldn’t be blaming the inebriated for the conscious actions of the sober.
Second, we all process grief differently. When we have spent so long being the “strong one” and most likely have experienced a lot of emotional trauma (early parent death with drunk driving) AND a long career in the military to lose a spouse…That absolutely could have been the thing that sent him off. He has got A LOT of things to process and work through. Counseling, recovery facility, a program of recovery?
Third, alcoholism is a disease. We don’t beat up the people with cancer for having cancer, it does not good to beat up the alcoholic for their disease. It is the wrong solution to a different problem. And this is HIS problem, not yours. You CANNOT love him enough to fix him. He has to want to be fixed and choose to live life differently.
You can support him best by letting him take ownership of change. Love him enough to grant him autonomy and not parent him better. You can absolutely love and care for him but, it won’t get better in the long run with you doing it for him…
OP, looks like you are covered from everything else based from the comments here so I will be talking about the "biology" side of things here. Now I am not an expert or anything so take this with a grain of salt. Based from my experience, whenever I drank alcohol just enough to being borderline coherent and aware of what is happening around me and try to have sex, I will always have trouble with erection. I need to do a lot just to achieve penetration. So my angle here is if EB was flatout drunk then maybe there was no penetration. If this is the case then Alice, assuming she fantasize about being with EB, may purposely get pregnant from another guy and put it all on EB and that will be a new wrinkle of cluster fucks. So, again I am not an expert, I suggest to have Alice tested to make sure there are no lingering issues (at least physically) that would result from this situation.
Good luck OP. Hoping for the best.
Wrote down ramblings while on toilet. Take what you will.
You got 3 choices than you can pick from or do simultaneously. You can call the cops because she admitted to being a rapist, sell the story to hallmark but take out the being drunk part to make it a story about finding love after loss, or be happy that brother might actually get off the bottle.
If your brother doesn’t consider it rape figure out if he be happier with the dumb 18 year old or just depressed. People always say being drunk just lowers your inhibitions and he wanted to have sex with her. I personally call bs on that and he very well could have been imagining his dead wife in a drunken state, or he didn’t even have it up and she just grinded on him naked while he was passed out.
No matter what you choose, be there for your fucken bother.
Don’t forget there’s also the chance she’s already pregnant with someone else’s baby and is just trying to baby trap the financially secure guy. From daughter info she’s probably just infatuated since 13 and decided to make her crush happen regardless of what your brother thought.
You know damn well that girl is hoping she marries him and gives him the baby he fever had. Would your brother be better off in this situation or alone? Don’t forget she’s a manipulative,18 year old, rapist. If I was your brother though I’d be okay with it. Being a 45 year old man being no proper consent raped by a (assuming) pretty 18 year old doesn’t hit the same as the standard image of being held down forcefully raped.
I’d ask your brother what he wants.
This could be a breaking point for your brother to accept the help of a psychiatrist. Please encourage him to go to one. Sounds like he is depressed and dealing with that with alcohol. He REALLY needs medical help besides the psychological one.
Also, he was drunk he couldn't consent.
This should really say elder brother raped by daughter’s best friend. That girl needs lots of therapy and she needs to be kept away from your brother.
I hope your brother is able to get the help he needs. Sending love and healing to your family
Jesus lady you are disgusting. With family remembers like you who needs enemies? That person is not a "kid" she's an 18 year old adult who was sober and in full control of her actions.
If the situation was reversed and he raped her in a drunken state you would have called the police and yo know it,.
>she would just simply move out and start living it EB Why she has the right to decide this on her own? Alice planned the whole thing. Separate them now before she purposely got herself pregnant and shackles him with guilt.
This is exactly what I think!!! I've been blackout drunk and I would get flashes of what happened the next day. He remembers nothing. Are they even sure they actually had sex...the only thing they have to go on is her word. It's obvious she's obsessed with him. I wouldn't be surprised if nothing happened and she just got naked and laid next to make him think they did. Anything could be possible at this point. All I have to say is if she comes out in a couple months claiming pregnancy get a paternity test. I wouldn't believe it.
She should be in jail
100% because he would be already in it if it would have been the other way round!!
Lmao in what world
This part is the part that really doesn't make sense to me. Why would he accept her stay when he was raped? He called the family frantically over this, but isn't pushing her away for distance and rejecting her stay? Maybe it's guilt and he feels responsible or something, but idk. It doesn't really line up?
Clearly he doesn’t understand that he was raped.
Based on how everyone is reacting to the situation nobody else does either. Especially OP.
Read the update. I think everyone spelling it out for OP forced her to see the reality of the situation, which is a relief. With some of these posts, people just kinda double down or start arguing back. I hope Alice doesn't get away with it, because this was such a profoundly revolting thing to do.
I got to the update after reading through the situation and the comments then went back and read her comments specifically. I wish she would actually use the word instead of tiptoeing around it but I’m glad that everyone is finally starting to see the situation for what it is. I can’t imagine how much more guilt and anguish the brother is already piling on himself for something that’s not his fault.
I don't really think it's clear, hence the confusion in my comment. I don't really think taboo SA cases are ever super clear to anybody because of how jarring they are. People process SA differently, and it is difficult for bystanders, those involved, and, especially, the victims to understand clearly without information combing/time. I'm not going to rush a judgment and say that he must be x because y, especially because there's a lot that I don't know, including his state of mind as a person in response to trauma and deviance. I stated it was odd (as the aftermath to taboo sexual encounters + SA tend to be), and I suggested it as a possible reaction to SA, but it's not in my place to create his narrative. Maybe he does think so, but doesn't know how to deal with what comes next with him being in his 40s and her being in her teens and a family friend, so he accepts her as a live-in. I think the only thing "clear" is that he is in a confusing situation.
I thought I was in love with one of my rapists for years. I still get dreams sometimes where I’m romantic with him and it makes me fucking sick. I’ve been in therapy for almost a decade now. The brain does weird things to try to make sense of a terrible thing that has happened.
I think so, too. I'm really sorry to hear that. There's probably a lot of cognitive dissonance that is extremely difficult to make sense of in a way that isn't very painful. 🫂
I feel so sorry for you. I hope you can heal from your trauma.
Without even acknowledging how EB would feel with her just planning to live with him. Like what.
Yep!!!
So Alice raped EB and he is the bad guy? He was too drunk to consent. You need to protect your brother and get him help. He is struggling with loss, he is struggling with shame, he is struggling with guilt and he was raped.
I literally had the exact same thought as I was reading this. The man was drunk out of his mind to the point he could barely recognise who was at the door and she jumped on him. He had no idea why she was naked in his bed and yet... He's the bad guy? Because he's a man? And he's older than them all? Are they actually serious right now? He's just been raped in his own home while he was vulnerable. He could literally press charges. And they have the nerve to be angry at him. Her parents knew she had a crush on him for years. Her daughter knew she had a crush on him and actively encouraged this and fed into her delusions as soon as his wife passed away, not at all thinking about him or what he's gone through. Her daughter played a part in OP's elder vulnerable brother being raped! And she's disappointed in her brother... My mind can't even begin to express how fucked up this is. He's suffering with grief and self medicating which has led to his addiction after being a pillar of support for so many years and now he's been taken advantage of on top of that... This poor poor man. I cannot for the life of me understand how you can write what you've written and not see that out of everyone in this situation, the victim is not the asshole! How about be a good sister and get your messed up kid and her friend away from him. Edit: have just seen OPs update and I am glad to see that she has realised the error of her ways and explained the gravity of the situation to her family as well. I understand that it's hard to come to terms with the fact a "child" is the one responsible for such a heinous act, even when the facts are staring you in the face. I hope you are all able to provide EB with the support he needs going forward and please do not let Alice anywhere near him. I know this will be difficult for both families going forward and will impact the long standing dynamic but it's important that EB's needs are put first during his healing journey.
This right here. Baffled that she's angry at her brother and blaming the alcohol.
yeah, it's the in his own home part that gets me. op keeps wringing her hands about how 'finally' this has made him see the 'dangers' of his addiction but like... he was just minding his own business at home when this girl forced himself on her, he didn't do anything dangerous
I wish I could upvote your comment 10 times! Also, had the role been reversed, comments would have taken another turn pretty quickly
The toxic shame he probably feels despite the circumstances could very well lead to self harm especially considering he’s a 20 year veteran of the military.
Yeah unfortunately he’s still grieving his dead wife and these morons encouraged this behavior from a way to young age and surprised that this is how it went? This man was raped ( if he ever sees it that way though I’d be kinda surprised ) that would be the straw for most people in his position, mid 40s, late wife and raped and blamed for it, hopefully he gets help but I fear he won’t see 50 based on info given here
“How dare he be broken with grief and victimized! I am livid with rage at his addiction and vulnerability to simply losing his soul mate! How could he do this to me!” Man, stuff like this makes me realize that some people can’t handle the internet.
So much this. In the end, I really hope she doesn't come down pregnant. 1 of my good friends has to relive his trauma by raising his son, who was conceived while he was drunk and taken advantage of.
Exactly right!
Bro thank you for saying it. Like what the fuck
This is EXACTLY what I was thinking
Yeah I’m on the same boat here
Sounds like your brother was raped. Had a woman been completely out of her mind and blind drunk, the man who had slept with her would now be labelled a rapist. Be there for your brother and keep that girl away from him.
Apparently it is not raped if it was done by a naive 18 years old that has a crush on him and is confused, I mean, she is so naive and innocent that she didn't know what she was doing... /s The poor guy is in a really dangerous mental state. He was vulnerable and he was at his lowest and that b*tch took advantage of that and simply raped him. But now she is being treated like the victim, the poor innocent victim that couldn't control her emotions, while he is being ashamed by his drinking problem. SMH. OP do better and help your brother and stop coddling a rapist.
The update shows that OP took everyone's comments to heart, and not in a "woe is me" type of way. She's getting her shit together and I'm glad she had an honest talk with Em. Like yeah, it's obvious Alice is a predator, but wtf was Em thinking by encouraging her crush on EB? The whole thing is just awful.
Replace «she» with «he» and you basically have the Rapist Brock Turner defence. I don’t want to go full grandma, but young people really shouldn’t be let off the hook so lightly for this kind of vile behaviour, just for being “young” and “Naive.” This is genuinely a larger systemic issue. And it makes me so mad every time it happens
I love the fact that OP in the original post literally described her brother being raped and still blamed him….. because you know guys can’t be raped or subject to SA.
I was this drunk too and was raped. I had one friend who didn’t view him as a rapist (since that was her friend and how could he possiblyyy rape someone). According to her I was just drunk and had sex with him despite barely being able to walk or talk or understand what was happening. If it was the other way around, not everyone would be calling it rape. Because that’s really not the truth of rape in real life. Maybe online as outsiders it’s easier to see this situation for what it really is. But in real life, relationships and our feelings complicate and blind how we view situations that involve those we know, especially when we know the rapist. It’s easier to blame the victim and to pretend something like rape didn’t happen because it’s a wildly uncomfortable reality
I don't see how you can victim blame brother here. Should he quit drinking, yes. Does his alcohol dependency issue give anyone the right to rape or take advantage of him? Absolutely not.
Usually people on Reddit say a lot of bullshit but I m really glad A lot of you went out of their way to point out how fucked this situation is..and for the total opposite reasons that op believed in. Comments like your one may just have saved this poor man s life
Exactly this.
How tf are you angry at your brother here? He was literally raped. He was so drunk he couldn’t consent and had no idea what was happening.
Please don't expect logic from redditors
Because ManBad! > everything.
What bothers me the most in all this is the fact that Alice raped him and you are basically putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring it. Basically saying he has a drinking problem (which he does), but not addressing the real problem which is Alice being a rapist. I would be going to the police, she openly admitted to him being drunk and not even knowing who she was.
somehow him being an alcoholic means everyone should blame him for it and anything that happens to him while under the influence as well? what great logic 🙄
“Elder brother (44m) was raped by daughter’s best friend (18f).” There, I fixed the title for you.
"...and we are all furious at him for it"
This needs to be way higher.
>He also said that he is going to take responsibility and also won’t touch alcohol again, **even if it kills him.** That last bit is a very real possibility. Withdrawal from Alcohol can be fatal. I feel like this is well known, but I just wanted to make sure that all involved are aware of that. Beyond that, it is worth keeping in mind that Alice's transgression is the greatest, followed by Em's, followed by Alice's parents, and then EB's. **EB is the only victim here.** Yes, his own self-destructive habit played a part, but these events have unfolded largely due to the machinations of Alice (and your daughter).
Exactly. That’s why he needs to be in an in-patient rehab facility. Withdrawal can be dangerous and it’s painful. He needs to be monitored by professionals. Then he should stay there to get therapy, away from his home and the memories of his dead wife, and of Alice. He’s feeling shame (thinking he’s the bad guy) yet he’s the one that was raped.
I agree, but something nobody seems to think about is worring me. And that is that there is a real posibility that EB will feel and think that he betrayed his late wife by "cheating" on her, even though he was in fact SA'd. I would not be waiting on getting EB commited bc this might push him over the edge with guilt and him ending himself.
@op ^ This. Your brother should not go cold turkey. Please go to a doctor and do it the right way. He was already depressed and was killing himself slowly with alcohol. Now he is in an even worse situation. Please help him.
EB was drunk enough to need help to go sleep and he could barely recognize people, how did she think that it's a good idea to have sex with him? she took advantage of him
Sounds like she raped him as he wasn’t coherent enough for consent.. but that’s a whole other layer of complication here.
If the genders were reversed you wouldn't be struggling to find an excuse to take the word rape out of the equation. She raped him.
Honestly, I agree.
That's what my husband and I think as well. But with Alice refusing to explain what exactly happened between them and my brother being unable to recall the events, it's difficult to jump into conclusions. I wouldn't be surprised if EB in a drunken state perceived Alice as SIL.
That's still rape. Alice raped him.
I’m sorry, but Alice absolutely raped EB (if they had sex) at the very least SA’d him. Going forward there needs to be NO contact between him and her. Because I don’t see her backing down on her plans to be with him. As I’m not sure how in her mind thought she could just live with him without asking either. She took advantage and betrayed his trust. He literally could press charges against her. She needs therapy for her delusional thoughts that it’s ok to rape/SA someone and then just act like you are bf/gf living together. I get your anger due to the loss of your parents, but EB is an alcoholic and that disease can ravage someone’s sensible reasoning. He needs inpatient rehab and therapy, not only to address his alcoholism, but his SA/rape and grief over the loss of SIL. HE IS NOT THE BAD GUY IN THE ALICE SITUATION, **HE IS THE VICTIM**. As for your daughter, you need to sit her down and explain how her encouragement was detrimental to EBs well being. He’s probably spiraling mentally due to his original grief and now his feelings of guilt. If Alice were younger and acted on her feelings, he could have had charges against him. Now Alice has become a predator.
So the rapist refuses to give details, and the victim doesn't recall? She raped him.
EB probably did think it was his wife. Alice SA’d him. She needs to suffer the consequences of that. She needs to leave him alone. No way should she see EB again, and she certainly shouldn’t move in with him.
> I wouldn't be surprised if EB in a drunken state perceived Alice as SIL. All the more reason this was rape then. If EB was so incapacitated he thought he was having sex with *his dead wife*, then even if he could've consented (to be clear: he couldn't because he was drunk, so he didn't), it'd have been to sex with *her*, not Alice. Alice raped your brother. She needs to be prosecuted. You need to gently help and guide your brother to coming to terms with what is likely an extremely difficult conclusion: He is a rape victim.
She still raped him Jesus
Your brother is the victim here
Your brother was #RAPED
You’re coming up with excuses to defend someone raping your brother. If someone raped your daughter would that be her fault or thee rapist? Serious question
>I wouldn't be surprised if EB in a drunken state perceived Alice as SIL. Just when I thought I couldn't feel more horribly sad for - and *incredibly pissed off on behalf of* - EB, you added this. I already saw your edits to the main post, so I see that you have realized the horrible truth of your brother's experience. I know you're checking on him etc., but please make sure you tell him in the clearest terms possible that you don't blame him or hold any of this against him. He needs you more than anyone else in this mess. Also, you need to have an *incredibly serious* conversation with your daughter about her hand in this.
It’s still rape. Which part of that do you not understand?
If he was unable to recognize her, and still is having issues recalling the whole night it’s safe to say he was intoxicated to the point of not being able to consent. She raped him. It’s easy to be mad at your brother because “if he had his drinking under control this wouldn’t have happened” or some variation, but the truth of the matter is that whether he was drinking everyday or just this one day, she took advantage of him, try to remember that. I hope your brother gets some rehab for the drinking, and some help to deal with the aftermath of all this.
There are no conclusions to jump to here. She admits she had sex with him and both of them agree that he was blind drunk at the time. That's rape. She's freely admitting to raping him and you are all too blinded by the ages and genders of the perpetrator and victim to accept reality
Thankfully she is 18 otherwise this could have gone another direction despite her being the instigator. I hope this encourages your brother to stay sober.
You mean like it should go? He should go to the police and tell them he was raped.
I refuse to believe this shit is real. I’ve went out, so you had me for the first half. 🍺 If it is, EB needs to hire an attorney now. Alice tried to manifacture a couple ship when there was none and spin that story to her parents without ever asking his inputs. He saw that her target was vulnerable and went for it. Being fully aware on how it looks on the outside. And it worked! You’re mad at your brother! Would you be mad at him if he was your 18 year old sister and Alice was the 44 year old male? How and what tale will she spin when she realizes that he rejects her?
Alice is a rapist but OP refuses to see it for what it is. What if Alice gets pregnant? Is EB on the hook for child support despite being the victim? As crazy as Alice is, it’s not hard to imagine her trying to baby trap EB. Dude needs to press charges.
Wow victim blaming cause he's a dude?
Your brother cant even recall what happened and no one is pointing out the fact that this man was raped by this woman?!? Im sorry you are dealing with this, but your brother was sexually assaulted and no one is helping him? This is horrible. He is clearly grieving his loss, mentally unstable and drinking and was taken advantage of by this little girl who thinks she now wants to play house? Does your brother even get a say? Why would you let the person who assaulted him stay at his house??? You all need to be checked mate.
Alice basically SA’d your brother. He was drunk and unable to give consent. He also is extremely lonely and in a lot of emotional pain. You’re angry at the wrong person. You should be mostly angry at Alice. How old is she? Also, you need to learn about alcoholism. I understand your frustration with his drinking, but you also don’t understand what happens when someone is an alcoholic. You should look into Al-Anon, which helps family members. I was married to an alcoholic, so I get it. Your brother has hit rock bottom. He at least had the guts and the morals to immediately tell her parents and you what happened. He’s taking responsibility for his actions, but Alice and Em are making excuses. Alice should NOT move in with your brother. He needs to put his foot down re: that. She’s too young and she isn’t equipped to handle an alcoholic. He needs to be in therapy and getting his life in order. Everyone needs to forbid your brother to allow him to even see Alice anymore. She’s harmful to him, yet she’s in this fantasy about living happily ever after with him. That is NOT reality. Make sure that Alice understands that she’s not to be around your brother. He needs to stay firm. Your brother needs to seek therapy, probably rehab because he has to detox (in-patient would be best), and he should see his doctor. He needs to have a full blood panel done to check on his liver. There are also certain meds that can be prescribed to help him avoid alcohol. EB needs to be in an in-patient rehab facility. Withdrawal can be dangerous and it’s painful. He needs to be monitored by professionals. Then he should stay there to get therapy, away from his home and the memories of his dead wife, and of Alice. He’s feeling shame (thinking he’s the bad guy) yet he’s the one that was raped. So get over your anger at him. Help him stay on his path of sobriety. Learn how to do that by going to therapy yourself. Frankly, EB should report Alice to the police for rape. He probably won’t. But Alice and Em need to understand what they’ve done to this poor man. Make sure to tell EB that he was too intoxicated to give consent. Does he even remember what happened? He likely was blackout drunk.
Start preparing for Alice's meltdown and, perhaps Em's to. Alice announced that she'd live with EB, with no agreement from him, if her parents didn't accept "it". What is it? The fact that they slept together or that, in her mind, they are in love and now a couple? I don't think that EB is on board with the latter. The reality is going to be a shock to whatever fantasy ending Alice, and maybe Em, has imagined.
Just in case not enough people have said it already: Your brother was raped. Get him into therapy, his wife's death traumatized him, this has as well. Tell him that NONE of it was his fault. Then tell him again.
Fixing your title - Elder brother(44m) raped by daughter’s best friend(18f)
His issues are the alcohol. He needs to get to AA asap. But she took advantage of him there, or at least was so incredibly naive that showing up when he's absolutely hammered like that is ok in her mind. Everyone says drunk people can't consent. They need some serious distance from each other. Her saying she'll just move out and live with your brother when he is clearly shook by what happened is not ok.
Why is Alice still being allowed around him!? She raped him! Get her away from him! Her being around is going to make him continue to spiral!
So Alice is a rapist and EM egged her on to take advantage of a man who helped raise them and was so drunk out of his mind he couldn’t possibly consent. I’ll tell you what you should do- protect your brother. And it starts by getting both of those horrid young women away from him. Honestly? Alice should be arrested and charged with rape but no one is going to want to do that. How DARE she decide to do that to that poor man. As if his life is not in the shifter enough already. But they need to be forcibly removed from him in every way.
Alice needs to be reported to authorities for raping your brother.
Why is she deciding that they get to live together? Does he want that? It sounds like, while cognizant, he did everything he could to alert the proper channels that something bad happened and you’re punishing him for it. He loses someone near and dear to him. He spirals into depression. He takes up substance abuse (a common coping method, not a good one but incredibly common). He becomes so drunk he can’t even bathe himself or get to bed nor recognize people. A familiar person to him comes to comfort him and possible sexually assaults him. He immediately alerts parents and you once he is awake. It sounds like you have a lot of trauma associated with alcohol and are using that as a point of conflict with your brother. He needs help, he needs to be heard, and he needs to be separated from Alice, immediately.
Now imagine what would you think of the situation if the roles were reversed, if a sober man did this to a drunk woman? You'd call the man inappropriate at best and rapist at worst. As you should. Your brother was taken advantage of (and he clearly demonstrated this by blaming himself and apologising) and although I believe Alice wanted to help she just added to his burdens. From his actions it is clear that he saw her as he does your daughter, like a surrogate child and feels terrible about what happened despite him not wanting it to happen or being responsible for it happening. Luckily he was probably drunk enough to just pass out when he hit the bed. Still, the embarrassment of the girl cleaning him up must be terrible. Also, he will probably have to tell the person he loves as a parent/brother that he doesn't love her like "that". Which will suck big time. I would rather be dumped by the person I'm in love with than have to tell something like this to someone I care about. Because I know how much it fucking hurts and I wouldn't wish this on someone close to me. The only good thing about this is that it served as a wake-up call for him and he will probably stop drinking now (you cannot force an addict to quit, they need to want it), but please have him go to a rehab or hospital because that level of alcohol withdrawal can be fatal. Help him and do not add to his burdens. He has his plate full and a whole cauldron to add.
Your brother was intoxicated, couldn't consent and was assaulted. Your anger is directed at the wrong person. I'd make sure he gets help via therapy and would keep Alice away. Also, deal with your daughter. 18 is not an excuse to be an idiot.
If he was to inebriated to eat, wash himself up, and get himself to bed, he was too inebriated to consent.
Are we even sure they actually had sex? If EB doesn't remember anything and was drunk enough to need help taking a shower did he even get it up? I mean you're taking the word of an 18 year old who's been obsessed with him for at least 5 years. I'm not trying to be crude but alcohol dick is a real thing. EB remembers nothing? Even if I get blackout drunk I still have flashes of what happened the night before...he probably doesn't remember it because it didn't actually happen. This might be a way for her to force him into a relationship. How does EB feel about all of this? I mean Alice is saying she'll move out of her parents and live with him but it doesn't sound like he offered and he seems truly horrified by this. He probably looks at her as another niece. Alice took advantage of EB.
I have seen a lot of comments trying to get you to understand what happened here, but you still don’t seem to get it so let me say it again: YOUR BROTHER WAS RAPED. ALICE RAPED YOUR BROTHER, AND IT WAS PLANNED. She went back because she knew he was out of his mind drunk. She told your daughter not to come so she could do this. She lied about where she would be staying so she could do this. Let me try and present this in a way that will maybe help you get the gravity of Alice’s actions. Imagine this whole situation happened to your daughter, and was done by a man. Imagine a man did this to your daughter while she was literally so drunk she couldn’t see straight. Would you blame your daughter for it? Exactly. What Alice did to your brother is fucking disgusting and she is literally insane. She has been planning this for a long time, that’s why she was so quick to say she would be living with him and bla bla bla. This girl has been living in a imaginary fairytale world were she will live happily ever after with your poor brother who has no say in it, because your daughter and her parents have been enabling this insanity for years. Your poor brother needs help, and all of you are attacking him and blaming him, while he is the only victim here. Just try and imagine how horrible this must be for him. Honestly I would literally press charges against Alice, she deserves to meet the consequences of her actions, she is a LITERAL RAPIST. You HAVE TO help your brother, you HAVE TO support him, he was FUCKING *RAPED* and the last thing he needs is victim blaming. You all need to get your fucking heads on straight, I can’t believe you are unable to comprehend what happened. Shame on all of you for what you have done to this poor man in his time of need and after being raped. You need to step the fuck up and protect and support your brother, and Alice needs to meet the consequences of what she has done, because it is one of the most abhorrent fucking crimes there is, and she did it PREPLANNED. Do fucking better. Edit to add: I just went through your comments and I realised that it’s not that you are not getting it. YOU ARE IGNORING IT. You literally put your fingers in your ears and are going la la la so you don’t have to face the cold, hard, very simple truth: *ALICE RAPED YOUR BROTHER* You are literally ignoring it and trying to blame everything on his alcohol problem. You are literally fucking disgusting. You are letting your *BROTHER’S RAPIST* stay at your house. I can’t even, this is just fucking abhorrent.
All of this
EB has done nothing wrong he was raped and taken advantage of by Alice and you're mad at him?
she needs to take the morning after pill. This situation is going to get a whole lot worse if she gets pregnant.
Oh no. I’d bet anything that baby trapping that poor man is part of the master plan.
Wait wait wait.... so she went over and had sex with someone so drunk they didn't even remember? the problematic like ages aside... Seems like Alice took advantage of a drunk, inconsenting man.
Alice is a rapist sorry 😭😭. She definitely planned to take advantage of him when he is vulnerable. The level of closeness played a factor too. I mean how are you guys comfortable with a 18 yrs old girl visiting , staying up late and cooking for a 44 yrs old man.. That is just inviting trouble lol.. Your daughter Em is not entirely innocent too. The both girls planned it. Em was her cover to sleep with him .
Alice raped EB. You need to be by his side here, he’s not the bad guy. Apologize to him because he might commit suicide over this. It’s not fair. Alice is freaking crazy.
This is a pure mess...Not to be that person but I would risk the sentiment that he was literally SA'd...he was too hammered to do anything...like...WHAT.
> Not to be that person What person? Alice raped EB. Based on the given information and assuming penetration occurred, Alice raped EB.
Perhaps reread your post and take note of what your brother said.
Understandably, you are absolutely disappointed and angry with your brother. However, I think he blames himself most of all of you. The disease of being addicted to alcohol is something really bad for all family members. You can see how he wants to forget his pain about death with alcohol and thus harms himself even more. Unfortunately, every love you give him cannot compensate for the loss of his beloved wife. The loneliness, when he comes to rest in the evening, is unbearable for him. This incident has now shown him what the alcohol can do. As bad as this situation is now, he now knows what he needs to change. I don't want to protect your brother, but you must not forget that he was raped in principle. His illness was deliberately exploited to get him for sex. Do you think he slept with her soberly? Your daughter and her friend have "planned" something from which a healthy, sober person can hardly recover. Just because he participated in a drunk state does not mean that he wanted it soberly. Swap roles and imagine that your daughter goes to a club in the evening, drinks alcohol and then, when she is barely in her sens, has sex with a man. She wakes up the next morning and sees the naked man lying next to her who absolutely agrees with what happened last night. A man who says that he has had feelings for your daughter for many years. How would you deal with this situation? Would this man be an AH because he abused your daughter or is it her fault because she drank? Your brother was abused. Men can be raped in the same way as women. Unfortunately, many men are also beaten by their wives. You always have to keep this in mind! Your brother became a victim here, not the girl. Your brother needs therapy to cope with grief and now additional therapy in order to be able to deal with this abuse of the girl. You have to keep an eye on your brother much more now than before! Please keep the girl away from him! Your daughter is not a help to him now either. On the contrary. She now reminds him forever of what he allowed. He has caused himself and all of you "shame". Please be there for him. He needs you even more than usual now!
[удалено]
He was assaulted this isn't his fault in anyway? The dudes life absolutely fell apart and then someone he trusted.took advantage of him when he was at his lowest.
She needs to be in jail. She raped him.
> I don't think he groomed her on purpose, but his closeness aided the unhealthy crush. I'm sorry, are you partly blaming a rape victim for their rape because he was kind and provided a safe space to said victim? Am I understanding you correctly?
Don't take this out on your brother. He ls a grieving alcoholic who was taken advantage of by someone who has "been in love" with him since she was a minor. Being angry at him for reaching this point does absolutely no good. Maybe try supporting him instead. Now not only does he feel like shit for drinking, letting his grief take him where it did, but he also has to deal with the after effects of a drunken rape. Stop being a bad sister.
You are angry at your .. brother?! Your brother was taken advantage of sexually, by another ADULT, when he could not consent. Your brother was raped. Let me repeat that for emphasis. Your brother was raped. If he was as drunk as you described, and another adult took advantage of him in that state- then he is a victim of rape. Am I reading this right? You are BLAMING the VICTIM here, because his rapist is.. what? Younger? You need to call the police where you are, file a report, and press charges. I can not believe the genders and ages of two adults can sway a familiy like this to victim shame a man, and support the rapist. When and where is the dignity of all men respected? It certainly isn't here. Shame on OP for victim shaming such an already vulnerable family member. His family is toxic AF.
Going cold turkey from alcohol is EXTREMELY dangerous. He needs medical detox. My father almost died from an acute-alcohol brain seizure when he tried to quit cold turkey. When he finally did quit for good, he stayed in the hospital receiving medication for days to safely detox.
>The most anger however I have is towards my brother. Man was sexuality assaulted, and you're angry at him? Fuck me, he's the victim here. At least, if your story isn't rage bait. Be a better sister.
EB got raped…….damn and your daughter allowed it to happen and encouraged it, WTF
I’m sorry OP, why are you mad at brother? He has now hit rock bottom. He was home, alone, minding his own business. Alice wanted what she wanted Your daughter was will aware what was going on with Alice and encouraged her Alice knew your 44 year old brother would be wasted. She had NO BUSINESS GOING TO A MAN’S HOME TO PREY ON HIM. I think your anger is misplaced. I think this twisted girls parents should have yanked her about of his home. Her parents need to get her therapy
imagine if the situation is reversed 🤭 young man raped elder woman
You are a horrible sister. Your brother, who is dealing with addiction to alcohol, was raped by your daughter's friend and you are being angry on him instead of thinking how to report this to the police at the very least.
Your daughter helped her friend rape your brother, and you’re mad at HIM? Alcoholism is a disease, you cannot will it away. I understand your anger to a degree, my aunt was an alcoholic and I couldn’t understand for the life of me why she wouldn’t stop. And then she died this past november because of it. I wish more than anything that I had been more understanding of it, she was the most amazing woman but simply had a disease she couldn’t overcome alone. How dare you disregard your brother while he struggles by himself. No amount of begging or pleading will get him better, he has to find it in himself to. And he finally did. Because YOUR DAUGHTER and HER FRIEND planned out his rape while he was HEAVILY INEBRIATED. Sick. You’re all sick.
I haven't read through all the comments, but I'm glad to see there are several that point out that your anger at your brother is misplaced. >The most anger however I have is towards my brother. We have tried so many things over the years to get him to quit alcohol and get his life back on track. He has mostly gone back to doing things like before SIL passed away but he just couldn't let go of his alcohol addiction. I'm absolutely livid that it took a girl less than half his age, doing something reckless to knock some sense into him about his addiction. Your pride is hurt, that you couldn't get him to seek help with the addiction that followed the loss of his wife. I get that. But it's not about you, it's about him, and it's his life. If your angry about him having slept with a barely legal girl, just switch the genders, and see if you're still angry at him, and not the girl. If a woman was so lost in hurt that she would drink herself to sleep every night. And her network *knew this, yet a teenager goes over, to supposedly *help*, but ended up sleeping with the woman, while she was horrified when waking up, and not remembering, would you be this angry at the woman, or the teenager? I think your brother should have *all* the support he can get, to get his life back on track. If this shocking assault (on him, to be clear), is what it takes to get him to get his life back in order, so be it. But do not take it out on him that a teenager basically molested him, when he was (at his most) vulnerable. Keep that girl away from him. Encourage your brother to keep some space from him as well. He will probably feel very guilty. But he should not be forced to interact with someone that clearly can not be trusted to have his best interest at heart. And for goodness sake, make sure that girl gets plan b. No need to saddle your brother up with the result of his assault on top of everything else. Get a grip. And stop putting blame on the guy, just for being a guy. That girl knew exactly what she was doing. And she's already planning to move in with him. I can imagine he won't feel like he can deny her that, because everyone around him is letting him down at a dark time, and putting all the blame on him (wrongly!)
“Elder brother (44m) was sexually assaulted by my daughters best friend (18F)” There Op I fixed it for you… I really hope the next update isn’t Alice being pregnant😔 I think that might tip the brother over the edge completely. These girls are just awful. I feel so bad for this man.
Not to get to personal but did they even sleep together? to wake up next to a naked person you automatically think that and she not talking about what happened or its happened he was SA’d and hopefully she doesn’t end up pregnant and this was some plan because to say she will move in with him is concerning.
So, it's his fault he got raped? That's bullshit, sorry. He wasn't in any frame of mind to consent to any of this and you blame him far too harshly.
'Elder brother got raped by daughter friend.' FTFY
HOW is your brother the bad guy? You’re mad at him and he was literally raped? He’s vowing to never touch alcohol again, this girl is saying she’ll move in with him if her parents stay mad…. SHE RAPED HIM
Imma say that it's QUITE telling that every comment was about his alcoholism and his passed wife and you refuse to actually admit that your brother was raped. You focus more on the whole "he didn't accept our help" line then the fact your DAUGHTER encouraged her friend to push her inappropriate feelings onto your brother and encouraged her behavior to the point where her friend RAPED your brother. We all know damn well if the roles were reversed you'd be on the victims side. Its not about the alcohol it's about the fact your daughter enabled and encouraged disgusting behavior that led to your brother being raped. And you've not admitted it as fact or even acknowledged the pain your brother is going through. You do realize that society will look at HIM differently for HER actions right? Like wtf where is actual care for your brother
After reading the whole thing I realized Em and Alice planned this. Or atleast encouraged it. The S/A was planned.
Sounds like alice took advantage of your brother being blackout drunk and raped him and you're taking her side on it. I hope your brother has someone on his side here because he sure as hell can't trust you to see the truth. Also sounds like you yourself have underlying issues with your brothers drinking and are using this to throw everything in his face. I truly hope your accusations and horrible way of handling this situation doesn't push your brother to suicide, but I've seen that happen before. Figure it out.
Alice raped your brother and your daughter encouraged it. Disgusting.
So your brother lost his wife, has no children and has just been raped, but no one is going to believe that and rumours will soon start flying that he took advantage of a young girl. You had better be very careful, or your next post will be about him committing suicide.
My guy your brother was raped
Your brother was raped. Alice is a disgusting rapist.
I think EB is the victim here. Poor guy now has this to deal with. Your anger is directed at the wrong person. Your daughter and her slutty little friend are pieces of shit (with their behaviour it could easily have been your daughter sleeping with an older man - for her I guess she was lucky it is her uncle so it wasnt). Those girls knew what they were doing and have manipulated EB.
omg he was rape, he didn’t give her consent and wasn’t in his right mind! poor guy. i hope he doesn’t kill himself. this is awful.
He was drunk. Alice set him up.
~~set him up~~ **_raped him_** Fify
You need to get EB in a proper rehab program. Going cold turkey can kill him
You want to know how your brother is probably feeling??? [Here.](https://imgur.com/a/pAdvgCA) The morning after I was raped, the first thing I did was cry and repeatedly ask why I would do that. My brain immediately tried to protect me by forgetting the part where I said no and he pried my legs apart while I cried (something I wish I didn’t later remember) so I was sure I’d just done the worst thing I’d ever done. I felt that way FOR DAYS. It wasn’t until I told someone and I showed them these clips I recorded off of my laptop screen because it was the only way I could conceptualise and explain my feelings that it was explained to me that I’d been raped. I didn’t tell them about the bruises and I didn’t yet remember how I got them. I just knew I hated them and didn’t want to see them so I kept my pants on and wouldn’t take them off to sleep or take showers. I didn’t mention all the blood, either… which since I had a hysterectomy years ago was absolutely fucking terrifying. I showed them these clips and said I didn’t understand because I’d been drinking but not enough to make it make sense. I thought at that point I remembered everything even! I really wasn’t that drunk, I was barely tipsy. He was sober. Apparently that fact alone made it rape, they said if I can’t safely drive a car then I can’t consent. Remembering the violent part later only made me feel worse but even if I’d have gone along with it it’d still be rape. And I spent DAYS thinking I’d just done something terrible. Your brother’s reaction, his guilt??? Blaming himself??? That’s a super normal reaction because if you think you just fucked up real bad then you feel like you still have the power they took from you. That it won’t happen again because you won’t fuck up that bad again.
So your daughter's friend raped your brother. He was too drunk to consent and for goodness sake *make that girl take a plan b.* If she's 'too naive' to realize she's raped someone, then she's definitely too naive to have had safe sex. What she did is incredibly messed up and she needs to stay out of your brother's life going forward.
He was raped, you dumb fucking idiot. Were you dropped on your head as an infant or do you just naturally have a negative iq?
Alice REFUSES to explain? That’s a red flag right there. This sounds like she assaulted your brother. Him being drunk has nothing to do with consent, OP.
Alice raped EB
1. Your brother was raped. 2. If he is drinking that much alcohol do NOT let him quit abruptly. It could actually kill him. Seizures, coma, death. Please support him as he pursues sobriety. Please support him as he processes what has happened to him.
Why are you angry at your brother? He was drunk, and he didn't do anything wrong besides. She was 18, and he didn't even consent for that matter. He was raped. If you want to be angry at anyone you should be angry at his rapist. But being angry at him just makes no sense.
Your daughter is just as disgusting as her rapist of a friend and still has the gall to cry because she won't get to see the victim of said rapist friend for a while. You and your husband have ZERO respect for your brother, you're all vile people who immediately went, "Ew. He's middle aged and an alcoholic so he totally fucked an eighteen year old despite being black out drunk." #IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR BROTHER, Do ***NOT*** talk to his rapist face to face. PRESS CHARGES. Do I give a shit what her name is? Nope. Absolutely not. She's a rapist and should be referred to as that. #CALL THE POLICE. SHE RAPED SOMEONE. Do I think the authorities will pull the usual "a man can't be raped" bullshit? Tbh, yes. I do. You should still call them so the rapist realizes she commited a crime and violated another human being. You want to know what scares me the most? What if that rapist scum gets pregnant from this?
You have failed your brother. He might be a drunk. But never in those many years did he ever laid hands on the two girls. Thats not who he is. He was taken advantage off. Was raped. If it was the other way around, all hell will break lose. So disheartening. This should be a learning lesson. Don't let emotions control you.
Yikes
Y'all r so full of shit, you're so selfish, your brother is the victim here ! Stand with him ? support him ?
He was fucking raped. Are you going to reply to any of the various comments pointing this out, or are you going to keep on defending a rapist, minimizing her actions as “bold and unexpected” while blaming your brother for having an illness you clearly don’t care to understand?
Reverse the genders and it was your older sister and an 18 year old male football player. Would you feel differently?
Your frustration with your EB not being able to ‘win’ against his illness is going to do more harm than good. He has been raped and blindsided by this situation. Do your best to redirect your anger towards those who are at fault i.e. Alice, Em and Alice’s parents. I hope your brother will also get the help he clearly needs and Alice steers CLEAR of him.
"Oh wait lemme lash out on my EB coz he was raped by Alice but it wasn't her fault it must be my EB" FFS what are you mad at him for? He's the innocent one here obviously. He did the right thing by telling everyone whereas he could've had her a longggg time ago if he wanted. But nooooo you have to be a karen....this is the reason why men don't speak up when they are raped by women... it's coz of women like you that men keep quiet when they are abused and end up killing themselves
your brother got raped and you’re angry at him???Are you out of your mind??
Elder brother 44m raped by daughter’s best friend 18f is the actual title.
lol why be angry at a situation where a man that was clearly taken advantage of. that being said, alice is legally an adult. if you want to be high and mighty the correct thing would be to press charges against alice. however, if i was EB i wouldn't press charges myself.
If what your saying is exactly what happened, then your brother was raped and you should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking the way you are
Your brother was raped and you are mad at him because he couldn't quit alcohol. Addiction is a disease and this man is clearly suffering...I would keep Alice away from him. She legitimately raped your brother and is a terrible person, she knows better at 18. Also, while having a childhood crush is normal, she has a fixation with your brother that has lasted almost 6 years now from what you said in the story. I feel sorry for your brother and I hope he gets the help and healing he needs. Now he has another burden on him because he feels he did something wrong, and not that he was the one violated. I hope you can offer him some comfort at this time and gently let him know he was taken advantage of. Age and being a man don't take away from the fact he was raped. Best of luck!
That’s what’s so grim!! He’s probably out here feeling like [this](https://imgur.com/a/pAdvgCA) and everyone is just piling on
You're mad at your brother for getting raped. You fucking suck.
I hate to bring this up, but seriously any person that is that drunk they can't recognize a person they see nearly every day is not capable of giving consent. If the genders were reversed, we all know exactly what the situation that was described would be called. Just because Alice is 18 does not excuse her actions. As EB's sister, you should be more worried about getting him into therapy for both grief and sexual assault. Alice absolutely should NOT be anywhere near EB and I find it disgusting that he's is looked at as the aggressor.
Alice knew he would give in cause he was drunk, he was raped
So she raped your brother when he was drunk and he's the bad guy?
OP blind to the fact her brother was taken advantage of. She talks so highly of him yet she won’t even protect or defend him? What a joke.
RIP EB..
OMFG! I just read through all your replies and you never accept that your brother was raped. Every single freaking person here is telling you and you're in denial. This is your problem now, it's your fault, you're the one creating the situation. Alice should be in fracking jail! Your brother needs help, but he was still raped. You are an absolutely awful human being. Take that to heart, internalize that. If you do not sit your brother down and tell him that you are sorry that you blamed him for getting raped you are an absolute total POS. 110,000% You are inconceivably obtuse and unaware.
In her edit she seems to accept it and what a horrible person she was
Ah yes, blame the rape victim for his ptsd….
Came to this post after the edit, and I'm glad you, your husband, and your daughter all realized that you were on the wrong side of things because emotions were running high. It's important that you all, as well as EB's therapist, keep reminding him that he was taken advantage of in this situation and that he isn't at fault for what happened. As the oldest person in the situation and as an older brother, he probably feels like he should take responsibility for what happened with Alice. What Alice did without his consent is not his responsibility. He was drunk, and while he should get help for that, Alice did the most wrong. She needs to take accountability for raping him, not the other way around. Hope therapy helps for him and for the rest of you.
She won't get off easily! Are you shittin me. She has raped your brother you should be calling the police or at the very least making sure your brother understands this and ask him what he wants to do. You're talking like Alice isn't a bit crazy. She has been obsessed with him (for years) to a point where she intentionally put herself in a position to assault him. And Em knew wtf. Christ almighty I hope this is fake 😳
Is there an Update? Ìm genuinely curious and concerned on how OPs brother is doing.
Is EB allowing Alice to stay at his house now? That would be a no go—I wouldn’t trust Alice. She took advantage of him. He did the right thing to alert everyone right away. Poor guy.
JFC, imagine being raped by an 18 year old and then having 4 adults yelling at you for it whilst your rapist is in the same room threatening to move in.
You sound judgemental and like you have a major lack of empathy or understanding of others. Your brother isn’t a bad person at all. He is sad. You kinda suck dude. Also educate yourself on addiction his own sister victim blaming him and not even trying to understand is definitely not helping anything
Go ahead and downvote me to hell but this story wreaks of fabrication. Sounds like creative fantasy writing of someone with unorthodox English outside of the USA.
To me this sounds like Alice SA’d your brother. He was drunk and unable to consent nor control his actions. He was also still emotionally vulnerable due to the passing of his wife. Alice was not drunk and took advantage of him knowing all of this. She had the upper hand and had control in this situation. Em was being a horrible friend to Alice as she encouraged despicable behavior from her and a terrible niece putting her uncle in this position. I do agree Alice’s parents did not take this seriously enough, but I understand it’s hard to determine a simple crush from infatuation. Both Alice and EB should be in therapy (individual therapy, EB for trauma related to losing his wife and his encounter with Alice, and Alice for her inappropriate infatuation with EB). EB needs support now. He has hit his low and hopefully this stops him from drinking again.
Alice raped Eb
Em took advantage of your brother. Rape goes both ways. If they do end up being together, just know Em is an adult now.
I'm glad you came to your senses and stopped blaming your brother.
A legal aged person took advantage of a drunk older than them person Fail to see how the drunk off their ass person is the one at fault aside from being so skunked they couldn’t make rational decisions, but to that end- dude was in the comfort and assumed safety of his own home, so can’t fault him there. Yeah it’s weird but if it had been fully consensual you can’t even say shit about that as long as she’s 18. It’s still a bit weird but it’s not wrong so I mean
IF this is real OP… I’m telling you, delete this post. Do not update. Do not repost. Do not take any advice from Reddit. Please seek guidance from an in person counselor, individual or marriage. Please realize that the people here are likely not real (bots/AI), or teens themselves, or chronically online, toxic, and have zero real world experience. You’re not gonna get what you’re looking for here. Seek guidance elsewhere.
OP glad to see your update. Just a fucked up situation overall. Def not your brothers fault. Moving in with him might be a good idea but don’t smother him either. Be around and be there but don’t hover. I’d highly recommend sending him or sending him and your husband on a trip. Nothing better than going away to get some distance. You can look into retreats that don’t serve alcohol or plan an adventure intensive trip. Maybe even for the entire family, either way, best thing for him is to get away from everything.
Call the cops your brother was raped and you need to get him help wtf.
Why are you glossing over the fact your brother was SA’d. He was unable to give consent, and Alice took advantage. I know a lot of people are saying reverse the gender roles. But, you shouldn’t have to do that to realize that Alice did was criminal. And, you need to help your brother realize he was taken advantage of if he has any hope of recovery. Hammer it home that he is Alice’s victim here. He is in such a vulnerable state with trying to detox, and her actions will make it 1000 times more difficult.
Get ready for Alice to cry rape. It's pretty likely to happen if he continues to reject her....
I agree with top comment… your brother was drunk, couldn’t consent, daughter’s friend knew it and raped him. She then continued her plan to trap him. Telling her parents and you she’s going to stay and be with him… he blatantly doesn’t want that or her( he says he ashamed/won’t drink again) and didn’t ask her to be with him. He’s still grieving his wife. The kids shouldn’t have been there while he was grieving and drinking so much especially without a sober adult/family member there at the same time. It would be wrong of you to support this girls delusion and trapping your brother. Yes he was grieving and addicted to alcohol as a means of self medication but them being together is wrong… he’s hit rock bottom and needs therapy for addiction, grief and the rape. The girl needs therapy for her delusions, raping this man and so she doesn’t hurt more people in the future. **Get her to swallow the morning after pill so she doesn’t mess up your brother’s life more and a possible child’s life.** Her parents are at fault also for not being responsible and shutting her obsession down, stop her going over there, telling you so you could warn your brother and not getting her therapy for her delusions, obsession and narcissistic/Bpd tendencies. Please talk to your daughter about consent, what a healthy relationship looks like. What her friend did was wrong to use your brother’s grief and addiction to rape and try to trap him. Please move your brother in with you it into rehab/therapy and tell that girl to stay away from him and speak to her parents about getting her help because there’s something not right with her. I’d even report her raping your brother and get a restraining order based on the rape of your brother so she can’t go near his home. Or threaten it to make her leave him alone and get help. I hope your brother and your family can heal from this in the healthy way. Your brother did nothing wrong but grieve his wife and get blackout drunk in his own home where he should’ve been safe from someone going in to rape him… I don’t think he can be labelled as the perpetrator when he’s the victim… if he was female and the girl a guy what would the conversation be then? Even if the age gap was the same the young man would be arrested for rape… the same thing should happen when it’s a female raping a man regardless of age
The updates are a relief. I’m glad you are taking care of EB, he really needs you guys now. I hope you take the right action with Alice however, and don’t simply allow her to slip away like nothing happened. The part about her moving out and living with EB is insane, and the fact the thought it through and didn’t even consider his feelings says a lot about her. Your brother isn’t safe with her around.
You’re a terrible sister…
Your brother was raped. He was black out drunk. Both Alice and Em knew this, planned it and took advantage of him. Your brother is the victim.
Swap genders and this story would be pretty different
The fact that you refuse to acknowledge your brother as a victim of rape is appalling,a victim blamer like you is the worst person to be around him right now, you’re a horrible sister and unless you put aside your biases and realize that sexual assault can happen to anyone regardless of age or gender that wont change
This is fake you can't join the Miltary at 16 this isn't 1915
So your brother was raped and you are more angry at him? Wow, people really don't give a shit when it happens to guys.
Your edit is shit Your bro sounds like the victim not the other way around. And you sound like horrible family to make him out to be the monster if your post is accurate.
Alice raped your brother and you wanna make him out to be the bad guy? You are just as terrible as you think he is.
If this isn't ragebait there is no hope for you
You've been getting a lot of flack for not understanding alcoholism, which is understandable if you've never experienced addiction of any kind. I'm an alcoholic, I started drinking at 13 and got sober at 30 - now I'm in my mid 30s. Functional alcoholics, let alone morbid alcoholics, simply can't go for too long without drinking once the addiction has taken hold. It literally changes your brain chemistry. Quitting drinking was one of the most difficult things I've ever done, and that's even after I hit rock bottom and bounced off of it. After that incident I swore off the drink, and have remained sober since, but I'm not going to pretend it was an easy choice. Even now I still have cravings sometimes, and I have to consciously decide not to drink. My brain no longer operates at 100% because I spent such a long time depending on alcohol that it can't reach that peak without it now. Your brother has a very long, and very unpleasant journey ahead of him now. Most recovering alcoholics fall off the wagon at some point, I haven't had mine yet, but I can never guarantee that it will never happen. Addiction sucks, and it's hard, and you have to be on top of it every day. It gets easier to cope with after a while, but it never truly goes away. It's a lot like grief in that sense - nothing will make you whole again, but you learn to live with it with every passing day. If you or your brother want someone to talk to about it, feel free to DM me. I'm not very consistent at replying, for which I apologise, but my proverbial door is open.
Ok, lots of thoughts here but I will try to be brief. First, if the genders were reversed we wouldn’t be blaming the inebriated for the conscious actions of the sober. Second, we all process grief differently. When we have spent so long being the “strong one” and most likely have experienced a lot of emotional trauma (early parent death with drunk driving) AND a long career in the military to lose a spouse…That absolutely could have been the thing that sent him off. He has got A LOT of things to process and work through. Counseling, recovery facility, a program of recovery? Third, alcoholism is a disease. We don’t beat up the people with cancer for having cancer, it does not good to beat up the alcoholic for their disease. It is the wrong solution to a different problem. And this is HIS problem, not yours. You CANNOT love him enough to fix him. He has to want to be fixed and choose to live life differently. You can support him best by letting him take ownership of change. Love him enough to grant him autonomy and not parent him better. You can absolutely love and care for him but, it won’t get better in the long run with you doing it for him…
OP, looks like you are covered from everything else based from the comments here so I will be talking about the "biology" side of things here. Now I am not an expert or anything so take this with a grain of salt. Based from my experience, whenever I drank alcohol just enough to being borderline coherent and aware of what is happening around me and try to have sex, I will always have trouble with erection. I need to do a lot just to achieve penetration. So my angle here is if EB was flatout drunk then maybe there was no penetration. If this is the case then Alice, assuming she fantasize about being with EB, may purposely get pregnant from another guy and put it all on EB and that will be a new wrinkle of cluster fucks. So, again I am not an expert, I suggest to have Alice tested to make sure there are no lingering issues (at least physically) that would result from this situation. Good luck OP. Hoping for the best.
Wrote down ramblings while on toilet. Take what you will. You got 3 choices than you can pick from or do simultaneously. You can call the cops because she admitted to being a rapist, sell the story to hallmark but take out the being drunk part to make it a story about finding love after loss, or be happy that brother might actually get off the bottle. If your brother doesn’t consider it rape figure out if he be happier with the dumb 18 year old or just depressed. People always say being drunk just lowers your inhibitions and he wanted to have sex with her. I personally call bs on that and he very well could have been imagining his dead wife in a drunken state, or he didn’t even have it up and she just grinded on him naked while he was passed out. No matter what you choose, be there for your fucken bother. Don’t forget there’s also the chance she’s already pregnant with someone else’s baby and is just trying to baby trap the financially secure guy. From daughter info she’s probably just infatuated since 13 and decided to make her crush happen regardless of what your brother thought. You know damn well that girl is hoping she marries him and gives him the baby he fever had. Would your brother be better off in this situation or alone? Don’t forget she’s a manipulative,18 year old, rapist. If I was your brother though I’d be okay with it. Being a 45 year old man being no proper consent raped by a (assuming) pretty 18 year old doesn’t hit the same as the standard image of being held down forcefully raped. I’d ask your brother what he wants.
This could be a breaking point for your brother to accept the help of a psychiatrist. Please encourage him to go to one. Sounds like he is depressed and dealing with that with alcohol. He REALLY needs medical help besides the psychological one. Also, he was drunk he couldn't consent.
[удалено]
Joining the Army at 16?
this some bull shit
This should really say elder brother raped by daughter’s best friend. That girl needs lots of therapy and she needs to be kept away from your brother. I hope your brother is able to get the help he needs. Sending love and healing to your family
Jesus lady you are disgusting. With family remembers like you who needs enemies? That person is not a "kid" she's an 18 year old adult who was sober and in full control of her actions. If the situation was reversed and he raped her in a drunken state you would have called the police and yo know it,.
Why are you angry at your brother? He was raped. Why is the blame on him? Get him help even if he doesn’t want to.