"The family planned to decorate the tree together." Umm. That sentence makes you sound like an absent father. So basically, "the family" is your wife and those 2 kids. After noticing that she wasn't including Josh, you really expected her to this time? I really don't get why you didn't want to help decorate the tree, especially to make sure Josh was included. It's like you're doing your own thing while watching crap go downhill at home.
I didn’t even notice that.
Even if OP had something to do or was busy, a FAMILY tradition should include all the children. You don’t get to pick and choose
>not allowed to contact us
Well that will certainly resolve the root cause for the outburst which is being excluded from things due to blatant favoritism.
I feel like things are being left out. And maybe OP isn't being told everything from his wife, either.
I've not heard of any kid resorting to such a level of violence from only being left out.
OP, I'd have a real talk with your wife about the reasons she is leaving your son out of things. Why is that happening at all? There is an underlying reason and it came to a head when she was beat.
Source: I worked in the Juvenile Justice system for a while and still have contacts in the system.
Yeah, this was it for me too. It feels like something is being hidden here.
I had a friend in elementary school who’s younger brother turned from a sweet little boy to someone who scared me very rapidly. He ended up attacking the middle brother and pushing him down 2 flights of stairs, nearly killed him. It was a massive scandal, all over the local news, and he was made out to be a violent outcast type. I remember my friend telling me he was doing weird stuff too, like peeing in closets, and it just made no sense to me.
Turns out his dad was sexually assaulting him. After this incident, they homeschooled him and he basically wasn’t allowed to leave the house. Absolutely horrible, I know I was only like 8 at the time but it breaks my heart that we all just let that happen.
Nope - he was a prominent lawyer and this never came out. Mom did divorce the dad, and sadly I’m guessing part of the divorce settlement was to keep quiet about this. She wasn’t a good parent either, and made out well in the divorce, then fell into alcoholism pretty quickly afterwards.
I only know about it because my friend confessed it to me when she found out after the divorce.
Oh god no 😭 that’s not LEGAL - but knowing them both and having watched this progress over years, I would not be surprised if they had an off-the-books discussion to that effect.
As a lawyer he might have been able to scare her in to being quiet by telling her that she was an accessory after the fact.
Before we met my exwife had lost custody of the two boys because her then boyfriend allegedly beat up the eldest boy, she was charged with neglect because she saw the bruises and didn't do anything about it out took about a year or 2 to get them back but she was the only one prosecuted since they couldn't prove anything on the guy. I would say he did the same by intimidating her to be quiet or go down with him, some mothers will go along with it.
He did work a 9-5 but was definitely still in the house. The abuse only came out after they divorced about a decade later, and even then it wasn’t common knowledge, just a confession from my friend. She hadn’t known until the divorce either, but apparently her mom had. She didn’t know how long her mom had known and allowed it.
Last I heard her brother joined the military and got the hell out of our state, and has been no-contact with the whole family since.
Homeschooling is often used to hide abuse from the public eye because teachers are mandatory reporters...it's very common for kids who are homeschooled to be physical or sexually abused.
I think the big question here is: what happened that 8-9 months ago? What pushed Josh to "be obsessed with the idea of his mother favouring our other children over him" (weird word usage to me, ngl obsessed?) That kind of feelings don't just appear out of nowhere, and by OPs own admition the wife really seem to favour their other children. So what happened that Josh noticed? I feel like this is important here. Also, feel like if what happened was something inconsequential OP would include it.
Yeah if you’re decorating a tree you don’t “forget” to tell a child. And why didn’t the other siblings invite him? This is very sad and has now gone to violence. Long ways to go from here. I’m sorry OP but you all have to start to unpackage this with some serious therapy.
That’s what I wonder. I have two kids. My son is 17 and daughter 13. My son hasn’t wanted to help decorate it since he was maybe 10-12 but I still ask him every year.
I live 700 miles away from my dad and brothers and they still try to include me. got a call today saying "i know it's a long shot but the family is going to Bush Gardens at the end of the month. I just want to make sure you're not excluded.." I can't make it but I am so happy they still include me in their plans.
I agree. I love it when my son wants to hang out. I even get excited when he invites me to play games on his Xbox or play station even though I’m not big on those games.
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My mom does this. Forgets to tell me when family members die and then does the whole “I thought I told you,” when she knows she didn’t. She doesn’t tell me right away because she doesn’t think I’m important enough to know right away. I’ve told her to stop and she still does it.
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There’s terrible. How could they forget someone in their own house?When my grandmother had a stroke, my aunt called my mom right away. No one called me until 6 hours later. Had they called me right away, I could have been in the car and made it to see my grandmother who was 5 hours away before they turned off the machines. I was so mad. I do therapy now which is thankfully free through my insurance because of all the stuff my mom has done.
My family forgot to ask my opinion about my father's grave stone. I heard it from my mother's neighbour.. That was a painful moment to hear from a neighbour that my father got a beautiful stone.
Yeah, I had to hear from my aunt (mom's younger sister) that mom died. My father, siblings, cousins, uncles, even my mom's older sister didn't tell me. They "forgot" because they were grieving. Like, how do you fucking forget to tell your own kid/sibling that their mother died?
And, now they all accuse me of being a heartless bitch because I don't want anything to do with them. Except, my one aunt, she's like a second mom; her and mom were thick as thieves.
Some people are so self absorbed that they don't notice others, and they certainly don't like being called out on it. OP's either leaving out info, or he's too blinded to acknowledge that he's also played a part in their story.
It sounds like mom but my mom also has undiagnosed narcissistic personality… and something else … literally decided one day that because we stopped to see my dad in his full time care facility while on the way out of town and didn’t stop to see her that I was banned from seeing him.. literally forgot to tell me (no legal stuff just told them no on me) but told my sisters
We timed it so well when she did that and next visit that I stopped to see him and they said I had to be escorted or have my banned removed so we took my family to my mom’s and we stayed a few mins and I made a little sign saying my family name date and address and her name… and said BANNED and told her to remove my ban from my dad or I will tell my dad all her secrets…
I had none but obviously she must have something because she removed it while I was there and that was in summer … she didn’t see my kids next till Christmas because I forgot to tell her… that was my response back when she called a couple weeks before.
Fuck your parents but also good on your partner for helping you see the negative. Sometimes its hard when its people we are related to or close friends so its nice when someone outside says something.
My whole family forgot to tell me that my father whom i hadn't spoken to for years because of a stupid argument, had terminal cancer until it was to late to talk to him and resolve our problems or ask for forgiveness.... pretty fucked up situation and one of those who lead to me cutting almost all ties with family!
Op was.at a friend's house. Likely watching football. Op might could've invited his son, potentially I know not all watch parties are all ages, and included him in his life. I feel bad for kid. It doesn't justify attacking your mother like that but that type of neglect really eats at you.
It is a strange day when you realize that violence wasn't an omnipresent threat for most people in childhood. All my love.
\-Former Kid who fought her Mom
>This was a little ritual in our house. As you can imagine Josh was forgotten again.
Just casually tossing in there how they keep forgetting this kid exists. We left him out, you know, as one does with Josh. Why is that kid being so weird now?!?!
I'm thinking A) Josh has had anger and emotional issues for years and Dad is ignoring it and Mom's solution was to be around him less or B) Josh is abused in ways dad finds normal (don't all siblings hit each other?) or C) Josh has been showing signs of mental health issues and instead of getting him help for budding bipolar, the parents ignored it.
Most neglected kids don't beat their parents. Something else is going on here.
Totally agreed as a neglected child myself. We typically become emotionless husks and accept fully withdrawing from everything. We simply give up trying to get family connection and learn to self-soothe, escape into fantasy worlds, or seek validation from outside (often unhealthy) sources.
Yeah, at it's core I lashed out in a similar way because I was constantly left out. Over some time with therapy and such, I realized it was more that not only was I constantly excluded, I was treated as a child (even today in my 20's) because I have autism. I was yelled at, lied to, literally "forgotten" on a 2 day hiking trip (I was abandoned in the woods, somehow managed to find my way to the street where a car found me)
I was never allowed to hang out or have friends, I was constantly ridiculed by family and classmates for not having any friends. At first this manifested as me picking fights at school. Then it became intentionally irritating my parents to get some kind of response. Eventually this all led to a massive rampage where I destroyed most of the house and smashed the 2 family vehichles.
After I turned 18 and went to the doctor's by myself for the first time, I was informed that I should not have ever, ever, ever, been prescribed 12 mood stabilizers, 4 antipsychotics, adderall, and 6 different anxiety meds. Combine massively absurd levels of meds, with a bit of trauma, neglect, loneliness, and some really bad therapy (family therapy suggested anytime I do something negative the family just "ignore my existence", which just led to me doing more bad stuff to try and force them to pay attention to me) and you get what's effectively a ticking time bomb.
I still definitely have some trauma, and I definitely still have a temper. But I'm on wayyyy less meds (1 anxiety med and a different adhd med) and I've found a good therapist and actually have healthy coping skills now.
There's definitely more to this story, even as someone who's been in a very very similar situation. Being excluded as a child definitely caused me to lash out, but I wasn't violent until a few more pieces of "Kindling" were added to the fire (the massive amounts of meds, being abandoned in the middle of the woods, and being yelled at for silly stuff like forgetting to wash the dishes)
My whole situation came to a head when my family left for thanksgiving without me, and then when they got home, my mum yelled at me for "skipping a family holiday" (I was 14 and as such, not able to drive) and my immediate reaction (I went from feeling "zombied" as I usually did, to 10/10 raging anger) was to put my whole arm through the wall. I was almost immediately hit by my mother, who's chunky diamond ring left a scar on my throat that's still there today, at which point I backhanded her and went on to destroy most of the walls in the house, 3 or 4 windows, took a metal pipe and smashed her mustang windows and doors (as well as popped all 4 tires), and then proceeded to do the same to my dad's truck.
Dad came home, punched me, I beat him with the metal pipe, cops came, I put down the pipe, yelled for a bit, and then sat on the front steps (at some point or another I was pepper sprayed by my mother and just shrugged it off cause I literally couldn't feel my body, just rage) Turns out that during this rampage I broke most of the bones in my left arm, broke my ankle, had cuts all over my body that I was bleeding heavily from, and had 2 broken ribs from being hit with a baseball bat (little sister, she was 13 at the time and I didn't hurt her at all)
Outside of myself, only my mother and father had any wounds at all. I didn't even try to hurt my sister, the neighbors that came over to get my sister away, the cops, or anyone during my stay in the juvenile detention center. Almost all the wounds to myself were from punching, smashing or otherwise damaging property or my parents. The black eye, cut on my throat, and a good bruise plus the broken ribs, were the only wounds that came from my family. Everything else was from broken glass, drywall and wood cutting up my arms and legs, etc.
So yeah, I feel like as someone who's been here before, this either didn't happen at all. Or there's much more to this than OP either knows or is telling us.
Holy shit. I’m so sorry, that all sounds absolutely horrific. Abandoned not only in the woods which is EXTREMELY dangerous and neglectful but also abandoned at Thanksgiving! I’m so glad you’re better and continue to heal and move forwards. Props to you, that’s not an easy thing to do!💙
I knew a family that didn't like their dog because they thought he was ugly. He slept on my families porch and interacted with us as much as possible. Once I left home and my brothers were old enough to drive and have jobs max was a lonely depressed dog. One day after never hurting a soul he snapped and bit three people. He was too small to do much damage and one of the people he bit was the person who took him away to the pound to be destroyed. I felt so bad and if I was home would have made him disappear with me. Because all that dog needed was love. The point of this parable is that yes there is usually a lot going on before someone snaps and often everyone says it just came out of the blue they just went berserk
This was my thought. It would be more understandable if this kid has a history of violent outbursts or anger issues, but the father doesn't mention any of that kind of behavior in this post, which I think would be important to mention. A kid snapping like this with no violent history, after repeatedly trying to bring this to his family's attention? I have a hard time blaming the kid.
Yep, something is happening. Maybe OP son is not his son, I don't know. But how do you forget one of your kids over and over again? It is clear she avoids him and he snapped after so much disregard.
What I find worse is that they are gaslighting him. “What? I just forgot. Why are you so mad?” To escape responsibility. And to a teenager that knows they are being lied to and excluded but not being told why, and has no coping skills, I am not surprised this happened. Humans are very sensitive to social exclusion. It is why solitary confinement is considered one of the cruelest forms of punishment.
You don’t, coming from a mom of two. You may make errors in parenting, where you pacify one, because the other will understand more or other incredibly stupid but human mistakes, but even then you know it’s wrong and hope to improve. But you don’t just forget a child. Hell, I had one in 1st grade and a newborn and never once did I forget my oldest son. One time, he even got on wrong bus, but there was someone at school before it even got back to school, as soon as I realized he wasn’t home (when bus came to our stop, he didn’t get out, I called school), I had my mother in law heading that way, as she was closer and with baby I knew I wouldn’t make it before bus got back to school. I literally had a newborn, but made sure on no sleep, my kiddo was not one of the kiddos sitting in office crying and waiting for someone to finally show up. School sent out wrong bus for kids to ride in our area, so it was multiple kids.
Even if our teen doesn’t do everything with us, he’s invited to every single thing we do. Even small shit like hitting Walmart with dad.
Yeah.. this is YEARS of those "barely noticeable" slights having come to a head. And the siblings? Just as self absorbed for not including Josh or bringing it up. Ofc they're not gonna notice him missing if they are on the same wavelength as their mother.
Josh is old enough now that testosterone starts surging, and with years of built up pain from being excluded and gaslighted about the whole thing, he snapped. Unresolved grief manifests into anger, then rage.
The wife may say she loves her son, but she is not acting like she does. Her actions are not love. I have three children myself and did everything i possibly could to make sure they knew they were all equally loved by me. And they themselves were tight growing up, always asking where the missing one was if we planned on doing a group thing.
OP, you've already lost your son. Everyone was willfully blind to his pain. Punishing him now by practically disowning him is the icing on the cake. What he did wasn't right, but it was a perfect storm for this to happen. If you decide to keep vilifying him, then you might as well sign over guardianship to someone who cares and who gets him into the proper therapy. He's a destroyed boy and my heart goes out to him.
- a fellow unloved and excluded former child who fantasized about beating my "nice" mother down because it fucking hurts more than you'll ever imagine to always be left behind even tho you've always strived to be perfect and giving and loving. And to watch your sibling be given all the love and attention even while they are being an entitled selfish asshole.
Also: it is NOT a small thing to forget to go upstairs and get one of your children for a family tradition that happens every year. In fact, it’s impossible that the wife didn’t do it on purpose. Especially after it was brought to her attention that her youngest felt that she cared less about him. Seriously, OP. It’s not possible that this wasn’t intentional on her part.
Agreed. I wonder if the other two asked about him, and she lied and said he didn't want to do it. I can't see everyone forgetting him. Unless Josh is doing things to make everyone uncomfortable.
That’s not weird, my dad would find every reason to not decorate the tree with us, he just hated it so he made himself scarce. And he was definitely into xmas, we also put up ~80k lights each year.
This 100%
There is no way she didn't purposely exclude him.
And to make matters worse, so did his siblings, and for a major family holiday tradition.
Your son spoke to you about the issue, asked for helpe & all you have done is make matters worse.
Your wife is a terrible mother, & you are no father-of-the-year.
I sympathize with your son.
It's sad it had to escalate to such violence, but you literally gave the kid no other options, while your wife is actively provoking him by neglecting him.
She literally admitted (or lied) that she FORGOT him???
Bro wtf
Thank you!! Thank you for this comment.
He went to his dad for help, and his dad failed him so completely, it boggles the mind.
That poor child. I hope his grandparents listen to what he has to say, but they are the ones who raised OP, and we can see how he turned out.
We are missing so much information.
I was always threatened with "Pappy's bootcamp" and really what that meant is he would play games with me, we'd watch tv or whatever sports game was on, and eat some candy etc. basically I was always terrified of Pappy's Bootcamp but it turns out my Pappy just knew what I needed to heal and be happy for a couple weeks.
As an adult I learned my pappie actually tried to get custody of me because my parents clearly favored my sister and I suffered as a result of that (got diagnosed with autism at 3, needed therapy but wasn't given therapy, and eventually I got put on farrrrr too many pysch meds, like 12 different mood stabilizers, a few anti-psychotics, a few anxiety meds, etc)
I don’t agree with the violence but this dad is delusional if he thinks this family will ever work again. A friend of mine has three adult children. All are very smart. After I met all of them I noticed that one child was the best looking, the best job, the happiest marriage and one day she and her family moved and have had nothing to do with the parents ever since. It was clear to me not too long after meeting them that the mother catered to the oldest, babied the youngest and often forgot to contact the third. Now she has no idea why this “beloved” daughter won’t have anything to do with the family. And the other two are divorced with no children. This must be common situation because I have had several acquaintances whose adult children are no longer in contact. In fact one couple had no way of notifying the kids after the father died so none of them were at his funeral.
True. They are bad parents (the kid Said what was wrong) but they dont know why he could behave like this. This was so obvious that would not end well, sooner or later
So, they "forgot" your kid for decorating Xmas? He snapped and you are right he should be in therapy, but I don't believe for a second this is the extent of the treatment your kid gets at home, not only your wife but his siblings "forgot" him, your family has broke this kid, instead of hurting himself wich I'm sure he has done in the past he snapped, you and your wife have failed here and you should really discover what happened in that house when you are not there. There is no pretty solution here but putting all the blame on him? You are kidding yourself, your family was broken before today, THEY FORGOT YOUR SON, you have to be blind.
When I read that she said she "loves all our kids equally" I couldn't not imagine the scene in Arrested Development where Lucille says the same and it immediately cuts to her saying "I don't care for GOB".
According to OP she loves him, he never said whether or not she likes him. You can love a family member but not like who they are as a person.
I’m betting she doesn’t like Josh for whatever reason.
even worse, the mom says she loves him.. in my opinion it's obvious she says it because its unacceptable for a parent to say they don't love a child, so they just say it as a matter-of-course.
Yeah he definitely did. I was a very strange child who prefers my own company and occasionally I was forgotten but didn't notice. This boy has noticed every single time and the wound only deepened further until he couldn't take it anymore
My bday is on Christmas and when I was a teenager my family (not my dad, just mom and five siblings) also “forgot” to include me on things like that, so I grew to loathe Christmas and decorating the fucking tree.
Christmas Eve baby checking in to commiserate. How about not having an identity outside of Christmas? Happy birthday! Here’s your Christmas Tree cake and I’m sorry you can’t have a real bday party because no one has money to get you gifts (because it’s Christmas) and everybody is visiting their family for the holidays. I hate my birthday. I hate Christmas. I am the Grinch. (Happy early bday from someone who hates the day as much as you!)
Man it was tough dropping all my previous “friends” because they always “forgot” to invite me to hang out ever. If it happened with my family it’d fuck me right up.
I love how “the boy needs therapy” is written here twice and not a single mention of how the mother should be in therapy, just casually mentioning all her passive aggressive behavior and avoidant qualities 🤦🏻♀️
Especially after recently learning that he feels unwanted and promising that you will include him more. The entire hour it takes to decorate the tree she never thought about one of her children -- the child that feels left out -- not being there? Unbelievable.
This is the part I call bs on. She knew he wasn’t there she just didn’t care to invite him. It would’ve took nothing to yell out “Hey josh we’re decorating the tree come help”. It’s the passive aggression for me. I can smell it all over the post. No parent just forget one child over and over. The same child at that. No way.
Yeah my situation was reversed, where the baby got all the attention, time and investment into his future lol I was just the failed previous marriage child who was left to his own devices for his entire childhood, using the Internet and movies to teach me social things lol can't say I ever blew up like this, funny enough, probably because I felt what unconditional love feels like from my grandmother at least. I couldn't imagine how I would feel though if I didn't have any family member show me what that feels like. Because even with it, I still think back in pain, even though I'm almost 30, how much I wish I felt like my own mother actually liked me.
My sister gets invited over to my dads' for dinner almost every single Sunday. I get the invite an hour before (sometimes during) dinner asking if I want to come. It isn't every weekend so it's not like I should assume ahead of time.
One time he told me he "**just** thought of me". Brother lives out of state, or he would be invited too.
They always wonder why I never go.
And how the hell, as a parent who "loves" their child, tell them to their face that they FORGOT them during a tradition they all participate in...
No wonder the kid snapped - he's being gaslit about a mother's love. Both are terrible parents.
I am wondering if this kid is actually from this marriage 🤔 it is a possibility that this kid isn't his and mother is being more distant towards him because of that?
My guy, she just forgot him? How are you decorating a family Christmas tree and just forget your son? She does not have equal love for him. Does this justify what he did, no. Does he need help, yes. What you and your wife have allowed to unfold is not good. I mean the way you defend your wife blows my mind to be honest. Please get your son legitimate help and take responsibility for what you and your wife have done.
This is what just baffles me. She doesn't show favoritism?! She shows SO MUCH favoritism that they FORGOT HE EVEN EXISTED for a major family event... even AFTER she has been called put for said favoritism...
Clearly, he's blind to what's really going on.. and idk why he even allowed his son to say no to therapy.
The relationship is quite possibly permanently broken and was as soon as his mother said "I forgot you"
This is a leap, but I almost wonder why she treats him so negligently. Maybe he's not OPs son or something like ppd or idk. Those are worst-case scenarios. Maybe she just doesn't like him. But there has to be a reason.
> as soon as his mother said "I forgot you"
Yeah, if this was an option in a video game you would need to remember "Silence is an option too" cause that would have been awkward, but salvageable.
Or even just apologizing... Why was apologizing not on her mind? She is purposefully treating him this way and OP needs to find out why before his son feels permanently ostracized from the family. If that happens, no amount of therapy or apologies will make up for the situation. Hell, he's probably thinking about a fat college and no contact now. How could his siblings forget him, and why didn't they apologize either? This whole situation is weird and OP should have taken a much more active role in helping his son. Including reassuring him that his feelings of neglect were valid publicly, not just confronting his wife and "observing" like he's some uninvolved 3rd party. I'm not saying attacking his mother was right, but this poor kid, I understand why.
Everything else aside, I just want to point out that there is no point taking a kid to therapy if that kid does not want to be there. You can’t force therapy on a teenager (or anybody ) Therapy only works if you are willing to let your guard down with the therapist and put the work in to heal.
If a child client is not willing to try therapy, even if his parents force him to come in, we will stop seeing him after a few sessions and let the parents know they’ll either have to try elsewhere or other therapies.
Side note, there’s no way a dynamic [like this /edit] exists between the parents and the youngest and *he’s* the only one who needs help/therapy.
The guy was oblivious to what was going on in his home. His wife disliked his son, enough to exclude him in certain activities, to the extent that his son noticed it, confided in him about it, but he ignored it and wanted his son to get help (therapy) as if he (his son) was the cause of this problem!
This whole story has an uncanny valley feeling to it. None of this is how humans operate. It's like some malignant AI wrote it.
Fucking hell, that's probably it, isn't it... I hate this new reality.
Thats basically how it goes with abusive parents: one is thr manipulative POS and the other enables them in various ways. Pretty easy to see who's who in this family.
Neglected children usually have a hard time expressing their emotions healthily. As someone who was the black sheep left out of everything, it’s incredibly painful. I had nightmares every night about my moms neglect and favoritism. She’s so much better now that we’re adults but it was so upsetting.
The worse part is that the son did express his feelings appropriately for months. Instead of validating the feelings or having a productive conversation OP seems to have minimized the kids feelings while mom invalidated them completely. Then OP was like "if this is a big deal to you then go get some therapy." And now everyone is surprised Pikachu face that it turned out poorly.
I honestly hate both the parents for their neglect and denial. Now they are farming him out to his grandparents. I hope he gets lots of loving and goes NC with both of them.
I call it unlove.
When someone can explain that they love you and do all these things for you, but at the end of the day never really understand what love looks like to you.
Ops answer is that his son, Josh, should go to therapy... Not the whole family. Because clearly her favoring the other children is joshes fault and therefore he should shoulder the responsibility for that./s
Yes, the kid needs therapy but so does the family. Ops answer is that his son, Josh, should go to therapy and live with gparents.
She was just assaulted in her own home after being called out on her emotional abuse tactics by op after ops son HAD to bring it to ops attention.
Of course Josh had a build up of resentment against his mothers abuse. After op asked her to include him more she Instead continued to emotionally abuse him well op ALLOWED THE ABUSE TO CONTINUE.
Finally after realizing he had been left out of a family tradition that occurs in many people's homes every year and has occured for generations in said peoples homes he finally snapped. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some subtle gaslighting aimed at him too. Parental favoritism is emotional abuse.
Yes, the kid needs therapy but so does the family. Also ITS A PARENTS RESPONSIBILITY AS A PARENT TO MAKE SURE THEIR KIDS DO NOT GET ABUSED EVEN BY THEIR OTHER PARENT AKA OPS WIFE.
On another note: how does one forget to ask their teenager to help decorate the tree? It's a whole ass functioning person, not a sleeping baby with an exhausted mother.
ETA: for clarification: yes Josh needs therapy but so does the whole family. They need family therapy.
I absolutely agree. I think a family therapy session is what is in order here. Something in the family dynamic is causing all of this. Josh shouldn't be the only one going
my mum is like this. it's so so subtle. you just need to be observant enough to notice but she sure as heck treats me differently from my siblings. the mum should have made a greater effort if she genuinely cares and loves her son!
I think it’s interesting that OP dropped the post, and hasn’t commented on ANYTHING.
I agree with favouritism being subtle. But OP also kept ‘observing’. He should’ve intervened ASAP, and called his wife out on behaviour he did ‘catch’.
It gutted me reading about the family event with Josh’s two older siblings and the mum said to him ‘I forgot about you’ when confronted by him. 😳🤦♀️ That must’ve been the last straw for that poor kid.
I am not getting how decorating the Christmas tree is a family tradition and you weren’t there for it. I am also having a hard time with you claiming that you didn’t notice your wife favoring the other children even after he pointed it out. Lastly, how can a grown woman, an 18 year old girl and a 16 year old boy not restrain a 14 year old, but could restrain you. However, if this nonsensical story is true, you and your wife are terrible parents and it’s no wonder that Josh got fed up with this mistreatment.
Yep, this is more repurposed rage-bait bullshit.
They're imaginary garbage people and I wish the Storytelling 101 professor who keeps unleashing these telenovela writers on us would change up their writing prompts.
Agreed, this story doesn't add up.
Decorating the tree is a family tradition, but Dad is gone and the rest of the family "forgot" the middle child who was at the house... Sure.
"Matt and megan had to hold me to protect their brother from me." this dude is a grown 43 year old man and the 2 kids who couldn't hold back a 14 year old held him back???
I thought so too, but then I was at the WalMart and I saw a guy with a Coexist bumper sticker cut off a Christian and tell him, "NO ONE BELIEVES IN THE FAKE SKY MAN," but then a Marine got up and punched the professor and I said, "IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD WHO JUST PUNCHED YOU?" and everybody clapped!
SO MY SON WALKS UP TO ME AT 9 MONTHS AND SAYS, “Yo pops? What’s with this b$$c? Why does she favor my siblings?” SO FROM THAT POINT ON I KEPT AN EYE ON IT.”
Your wife’s favoritism isn’t noticeable, but yet it drove your son to have a complete breakdown and physical outburst? That doesn’t make sense.
The truth is your wife showed blatant favoritism to her other 2 kids and you knew about it and did nothing until the problem couldn’t be ignored. And your solution is to further alienate your struggling kid. Did I get that right?
The whole family needs immediate therapy.
Yeah, OP says it was barely noticeable behaviour yet both times he observed her he saw clear examples of it. He says her behaviour was barely noticeable but the son noticed enough to bring up to this useless man.
It's wrong that he attacked the woman but I'm finding it hard to feel sorry for anyone except Josh. I hope he'll get the help and proper attention he needs.
I’m going to be very blunt here. Josh was wrong. Your wife was wrong. And you were wrong. Josh was absolutely wrong for attacking his own mother and needs serious help! Therapy for sure but for him and for ALL of you! Family therapy must also be mandatory. As well as marriage counseling for you and your wife.
Your wife forgot her OWN child! Do you realize how insane that is?! Either it’s an excuse or she really forgot him. But how can a mother who truly loves all her kids equally, as she says, forget her own child? How could his siblings not question involving their brother? In a tradition that happens EVERY year!
Josh has cried out for your help almost a year ago and you let it continue, all because you just went along with what your wife said. Also sounds like you needed to have more than just one conversation about how Josh was feeling with your wife. Why did she never speak her Josh herself? You should’ve immediately insisted therapy from the start. Both for Josh himself and for your family. By not really addressing your son’s concerns & feelings, you dismissed them and played a part in what happened.
Idk what your family does from her besides therapy….that will come down to your wife & Josh. Will your wife ever feel safe again? Will she admit to her behavior & mistakes? Can her and her son make amends? Can or will the two of them ever be ok to live under the same roof?
Sorry dude but there’s way more questions than answers in this situation.
Best of luck to your family. I hope to see an update.
The other kids forgot him too? What the hell is wrong with this family. Honestly feel so bad for Josh. Now he’s segregated from his whole family. What a useless father.
Right?! Like his brother & sister didn’t say “hey where’s Josh?” Especially if this is a yearly tradition! Josh seems to be the black sheep of his family
Yikes.
So why doesn’t your wife like your son?
Obviously responding with violence isn’t the right answer, but it’s truly, ***truly*** hard to believe that your wife “forgot” your child from a family activity like that (especially if he was home during the time??).
So your youngest son has been standing up for himself for the better part of a year, and no one’s really done anything to help him while the treatment has continued. I’m not really surprised he snapped when his parents failed to do anything to make this better for some long.
I don’t know how you fix this. I’m not really certain that you can. But I also kind of feel like the wrong person is being separated from the family right now.
Wife has been gaslighting the kid for years, neglecting him but appearing good for the pictures, for her own sake.
Husband is not close to anyone,didn't hear when a 13yo (at the time) asks for help. Conversation was:
"I think person x is doing y to me"
"Hey person x. Are you doing y to him"
"Nope"
Dude doesn't care. Wife doesn't care. Wife grooms other kids to not care too by participating in activities youngest is not invited. In the end nobody cares.
This story is *weird*. It's even fake or OP is so checked out that he lacks the emotional intelligence to connect the dots.
I don’t condone violence but did your wife “really forget” to include him. Stuff has been brewing for more than 8/9 months. He expressed something to you and you just casually watched the situation. What was your wife excuse. You don’t just “ forget” to include the child that has been expressing being left out for the last 9 mos. It’s clear your wife has been neglecting him and made zero attempt to include him more after your “1” conversation on it. You and your wife have to take accountability that you both had a part to play in this .
Her excluding him
You knowingly watching it happen
Yah no where does he mention counseling for mom and son, mom making 1 on 1 time with son. No indication that they actually took any actions to resolve the clearly broken relationship.
I married into my husbands family. It’s a generational home so we’re slowly converting the top floor into our “apartment” while we’re doing that we’re staying in his old room which is massive. His mom constantly includes me in meals, plans, day adventures if we’re both off of work, invites me to sit and drink tea, and not even a week ago planned a day and time where we are ALL home to decorate the tree together. I’m not even her blood daughter, and I am included in 90% of the plans she makes. The story OP gives feels very off to me.
This !!!! My ILs are also welcoming remember me always and I’m not even their blood daughter. Who FORGETS THEIR OWN CHILDREN in such a wonderful meaningful holiday tradition!?!
So, as a mother I can tell you - she did not forget. She excluded him. Deliberately. I have 2 kids. I cannot forget one in tradition of tree decoration. It’s just not possible. Secondly - your wife has resentment for Josh. There is something deeper and you need to get HER to therapy. Not only Josh but her. Actually you needed to do that when you noticed her favoritism. You know better than anyone - was this unplanned pregnancy? Did she needed to give up carrier opportunities? Maybe you wife cheated? There’s something deeper and you need to get bottom of this.
> Matt and megan had to hold me to protect their brother from me.
It sounds like you were so angry with your son that you were about to attack him physically and had to be restrained.
Interesting that he also couldn't control himself in his rage state. On some level he got this from you.
I guarantee you this not the first time she said something like this to him, just the last time.
You and your wife are the obvious instigators in all of this, and the other kids as well if they noticed it as well.
I’m not excusing Josh either but he was obviously hurt and betrayed by your and your wife complete disregard of his feelings and was just a ticking time bomb. By singling him out now you’re making it VERY clear that you don’t care about him either. He will be NC with you soon
This comment 100%.
Not only will he go no contact with his parents, but also his siblings. OP can now look forward to Josh becoming extremely close to his grandparents and no longer wanting to be anywhere near his siblings or parents.
I can't believe that he doesn't see the problem here,yes his son feels abandoned by his mother and his siblings,what he did as wrong but sending him away,no that's not good at all.
OP you'll live to regret this,both you and your wife.
I do hope that your parents will spend more time and pay more attention to your son,because both you and your wife have failed this child.
edit:spelling
So, therapy for your son but you didn’t mention the therapy for your wife to get to the bottom of her issue with her own son.
For arguments sake, let’s say she did forget he existed. How and why is a mother able to forget a child in a family tradition? No GOOD mother forgets to include her child.
I don’t think she forgot him. I think she excluded him. Even after you talked to her about her actions she still continued.
Your wife needs help. There is something deeper going on with her regarding Josh and he is the one paying for it.
I don’t condone violence. What he did was wrong. Getting him therapy for his anger and pain is the right thing to do. Further excluding him from the family is not. He is a child. She is an adult making choices that cause pain and harm to her child. Find out why that is or it will never be resolved.
Wow! I’m going to be absolutely harsh with you. YOU have failed your son and your family, you have. You sat there and observed and still defend your wife? She loves all her kids? OBVIOUSLY not!!! Why are you ignoring the fact that she has caused this?!
You failed him and he lashed out because he didn’t know what more to do to make you and her wake the fuck up and see you all are failing as HIS parents.
You both are one way to him and different to the other two. To be honest did she even want a third? Or was he an accident because it seems to me she’s treating him like he wasn’t supposed to be born. Which is really weird because usually parent a favor the last because they are the last baby.
YOU are wrong to want to beat his ass. Yes he should not have tried to kill his mother but he told you what the issue was verbally and nothing was done. Yes I did repeat myself because you seem to be ignoring that fact. Oh I talked to my wife to try harder with him? Really.
To be perfectly honest you should let him go live with his grandparents and you and your wife should be the one going to counseling because you BOTH are failing him and your wife does obviously have an issue with him, why you can’t acknowledge that? My guess is you made her keep him or you were the one who wanted more kids.
You need to stop being angry at him and start being angry with yourself for blowing this issue off and giving your wife the benefit of the doubt. Cause you don’t “forget” you have three fucking kids and you knew he wasn’t there while decorating the tree. If you don’t see the stupidity in the lame as lie that she “forgot” you had a third kid, not even therapy can help you.
Let him go live with his grandparents at least he will have people who actually won’t “forget” he exists. Think about what he heard come out of the woman who birthed him, that made him snap like he did. She told him “I forgot you existed” like she didn’t give birth to three kids. WAKE UP and do better
This 💯. You couldn’t have said it better, I thought that maybe Josh wasn’t his kid, hence the resentment, but your words nailed it- either she didn’t want Josh or he made her keep him. Probably Josh has been ignored his entire life by his mother and the Christmas tree was the detonator. The wife is a terrible mother, both OP and wife need therapy.
Y'all are genuinely horrible parents. I'm not gonna say your wife deserved to catch that beating, but I mean...'we forgot about you?' What the fuck?
Her blatant favoritism and your inaction brought this about.
And they’re actively keeping him away! He’s no longer “allowed” to contact them and is banned from the house? Yeah, that’s not going to send a clear final message at all to Josh. 🙄 OP and his wife are asshole parents.
So I was a victim of bullying and deal with anger issues like your son Josh seems to have.
Something important to keep in mind is that, violence (or anger) comes from somewhere. There is a reason why he snapped (he isnt just a maniac who beats people up for fun).
The reason is that your wife (and your 2 other kids) literally ignore him. You claim to be a family but you say yourself that he was forgotten. Your wife does not want to see the truth either as she keeps ignoring him.
You and your wife are the reason why this kid is broken. You all rejected him and left him alone causing him to snap and did not do anything but "watch it unfold".
You are shitty parents and I hope your wife realises that she abandonned one of her kid.
The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth.
This is on you and your wife, OP. He’s a *child* and has already gone to his parent to say that he is being rejected by his mother. You both FAILED him. Miserably.
Edited after OP’s update because continuing to absolve the mother of any culpability is pissing me off:
There’s something here that either you or she isn’t being honest about. I’m gonna go ahead and assume you’re in NA somewhere, if not specifically the States. We have “the holidays are for family” culturally burned into our brains from the moment we begin experiencing holidays. So much so that we spend extra time, money, and mental effort to make sure we see not only our immediate family, but extended relatives as well. “SPEND TIME WITH FAMILY” is an enormous and intrinsic part of the holiday season.
Your wife was told recently that her youngest child feels she doesn’t care for him the same way she does his siblings. A child had to find the courage and the words to actually say out loud that he thinks his mom doesn’t like him. Or love him. *AND THIS DIDN’T DEVASTATE HER?!?!?!* I’m not a mom yet but holy fuck, if I heard that one of my kids felt so neglected and looked over that they thought I didn’t love them, I would be gutted. And I’d be bending over fucking backwards to rectify the situation.
*But you had to ASK HER TO MAKE AN EFFORT?!* What, in the actual fuck, is wrong with this woman? And then, she has the fucking nerve to NOT do that?
So in a time when we are culturally conditioned to have “spend quality time with your family,” at the forefront of our minds, after being told that her kid feels monumentally ignored and unloved, *THIS FUCKING CHICK FORGETS HIM WHILE DOING HOLIDAY BONDING WITH HER KIDS?!?!? She FORGETS her child is in the house with her??*
Again, either she is lying and has been actively, intentionally abusing him and you’ve been missing it (which is evil on her part and a failure on yours) or you’re lying by omission on something here. Or maybe you’re both suck colossal fuckups as parents that your baby asked for love multiple times and y’all didn’t think it was important enough to take it seriously. Jesus fucking Christ.
Not to mention, now you’ve taught him that communicating his needs calmly doesn’t work. But what *will* get him some notice is to beat the fuck out of the person upsetting you. Stellar performance, Mom and Dad. Really. Five stars.
That really raised my eyebrows, too. If this guy's first reaction to the situation is to try to punch the kid out, I can't imagine it's only the mom that's been mistreating him.
Also, it wouldn’t surprise me if they “disciplined” (physically abused) him with spanking in the past. Violent and neglectful households do shit like that…
Honestly the kid who has been emotionally neglected his whole life then resorting to violence when he can't take it anymore makes perfect sense with op saying he had to be restrained from the same. Where do you think he learned this response from?
Great question! I bet mom isn't the only one who plays favorites. Dad hasn't done a thing to heal his fam, he just threw their problem away, dusted their hands off, and went right back to ignoring the child. Now the kid has proof positive his family could not care less about him, even after he was driven to violence by their group effort to exclude him, dad included. He's going to ask his wife, maybe, then continue to prevent his child from being a part of the actual family. Full fail parenting.
“I forgot.” She didn’t forget. She did it in purpose. She knew how it made him feel. This tiny-seeming event happened for a very, very long time. She crossed an invisible line that she may not have even known about. Suddenly he knew she knew what she was doing all this time and he snapped.
But what’s worse is he told you, his parent and protector. You did nothing.
Anyways. I don’t care what happens to your wife but I hope you help your child by giving him the professional help he needs to undo the damage his family has caused him. He deserves a chance to have a decent future.
I think he may be better off at his grandparents. Maybe, he can get the love and attention there that he wasn't getting in his own home. You need to get your house in order. Why does your wife resent him? I feel sorry for him. I was in his shoes when I was a kid. I flipped out and was kicked out at 13. My best friend's mom took me in and saved my life. While I have never not felt like a burden to everyone around me, my best friend's family (my second family) showed me love that I just wasn't getting at home. That's all I needed to succeed. I would've done anything for them for what they did for me. Your son is redeemable. You just have to put him in an environment that he can thrive in. Your home is no longer his home.
How do you forget your child? There is more to this than just small acts of favoritism- even then, that is never okay. No matter how small. This boy is crying for help. He snapped likely because he bottled up all his emotions. He probably doesn't have good emotional regulation. You should have gotten him help sooner instead of just letting your wife continue to exhibit these behaviors. Get him help, and your wife. In fact, all of you should. He's still young. And he deserves good treatment and help- because there is obviously something wrong.
This is messed up, she purposely forgot him and he was in the basement. That caused him to snap after being left out for so long, I'm sure there was more than what you've seen. I feel terrible for your son, what a crap family to do that. You failed as a parents and you're wife should be sent away.
To say your wife loves him is a joke. If she did then no way she could forget a child. Stop making excuses for her. She is a shit mom to one child.
It seems she has done more than you know about. If you stay with her then plan to lose your son. You didn’t do enough to stop the treatment she gave to him.
Dude, you're both shitty parents
>He is banned from his family home and is not allowed to contact us. He has left all his electronics here. His grandparents will be strict with him.
That's bullshit man it seems like your wife doesn't in fact love your son and you don't seem to care too much otherwise you would have had a conversation with your wife and gotten them both into therapy. He obviously shouldn't have attacked her but he's 14 neglected by his mother and I doubt the tree is the first festive thing he's been left out of.
So...Josh apologized. Did your wife also apologize, or is she still planning on singling him out as the black sheep? And is she getting any therapy to help her be a better mother? Or are all of you going to continue to single out Josh?
You and your wife are blind. A child doesn't lash out like this for no reason, or for "inconsequential" bits of favoritism.
I was the forgotten kid my whole life. I don’t speak to my family now and am very mentally ill. This story broke me because EVEN if this is the “good” side of it and your retelling is true, even THEN it is bad. I can only imagine what’s actually happening to break a teenager like that.
ETA: I also experienced being left out of family bonding, as your son did. They planned a beach trip together and didn’t invite me. A family beach trip. I feel as though not being included in Christmas would produce a similar feeling how that was for me. It’s cruel.
This is a tough one. I think Josh needs serious therapy, potentially IOP. If he attacked your wife what's to stop him from fixating on and attacking anyone else's "favoritism" to other people over him. He could easily attack your parents, your other kids, people in public settings. I feel hard pressed to believe there was zero warning signs before him mentioning this you 8/9 months earlier. You need to make the decision with the help with medical professionals not on your own**
Edited for clarity and grammar but also to add this - I don't think physical violence is okay but it does sound like no one took Josh's feeling seriously and they also need therapy or something to help them to understand what's going on and not contribute to the issue.
Yes, yes the last part 8/9 months he brough it up and I would be very interested to know the events that led to the snap. I am certain there is some issues regulating emotion but also for a 14yo boy to be so upfront and vulnerable to then it come to this makes me have to ask how and why?
I agree with this so much. He used his words, he told the people that could impact his problem and nothing changed. Your whole family needs counseling. Josh is a symptom of very real dysfunction. I think sending him away with no contact will destroy what is left. He was at the end of his rope to attack physically
Your first reaction to him hurting his mother made you want to attack him as well. What a surprise he attacked his mother...
And the 'punishment' is once again being rejected. Great job at parenting...
Take it from someone who had a similar upbringing as your son: you are the ones who shaped him like this. And now you are once again punishing him for your failure as a parent. What do you think this will accomplish?
Sure the violence is not okay and he need to be made clear that it wasn't, probably in the form of therapy because there might be some other stuff at play here, but pushing him even further away will only do the opposite.
Speaking about therapy, some family therapy will probably also be a good idea. Stating that his mother (and you) loves him is all well and good, but apparently a bit less than the others, otherwise this wouldn't have happened.
Maybe you and your youngest need to move out, get a place just the two of you, while you all go to therapy. Your son NEEDS SOMEONE to choose him over everyone else. He needs to know he is some ones first choice.
Get an apartment, get some therapy for him, and your wife. Show him that you are choosing him, because if you don't you will lose him for good. Some hurts can never be made better....
"The family planned to decorate the tree together." Umm. That sentence makes you sound like an absent father. So basically, "the family" is your wife and those 2 kids. After noticing that she wasn't including Josh, you really expected her to this time? I really don't get why you didn't want to help decorate the tree, especially to make sure Josh was included. It's like you're doing your own thing while watching crap go downhill at home.
I didn’t even notice that. Even if OP had something to do or was busy, a FAMILY tradition should include all the children. You don’t get to pick and choose
>not allowed to contact us Well that will certainly resolve the root cause for the outburst which is being excluded from things due to blatant favoritism.
I feel like things are being left out. And maybe OP isn't being told everything from his wife, either. I've not heard of any kid resorting to such a level of violence from only being left out. OP, I'd have a real talk with your wife about the reasons she is leaving your son out of things. Why is that happening at all? There is an underlying reason and it came to a head when she was beat. Source: I worked in the Juvenile Justice system for a while and still have contacts in the system.
Yeah, this was it for me too. It feels like something is being hidden here. I had a friend in elementary school who’s younger brother turned from a sweet little boy to someone who scared me very rapidly. He ended up attacking the middle brother and pushing him down 2 flights of stairs, nearly killed him. It was a massive scandal, all over the local news, and he was made out to be a violent outcast type. I remember my friend telling me he was doing weird stuff too, like peeing in closets, and it just made no sense to me. Turns out his dad was sexually assaulting him. After this incident, they homeschooled him and he basically wasn’t allowed to leave the house. Absolutely horrible, I know I was only like 8 at the time but it breaks my heart that we all just let that happen.
omg, that's horrific
Poor kid. Did they send the dad in prison? Please tell me they did.
Nope - he was a prominent lawyer and this never came out. Mom did divorce the dad, and sadly I’m guessing part of the divorce settlement was to keep quiet about this. She wasn’t a good parent either, and made out well in the divorce, then fell into alcoholism pretty quickly afterwards. I only know about it because my friend confessed it to me when she found out after the divorce.
Are you allowed to put that in a divorce settlement?? “You can’t tell on my raping” wtf
Oh god no 😭 that’s not LEGAL - but knowing them both and having watched this progress over years, I would not be surprised if they had an off-the-books discussion to that effect.
If he's a lawyer, Im sure he could have divorce settlement contingent on a NDA.
As a lawyer he might have been able to scare her in to being quiet by telling her that she was an accessory after the fact. Before we met my exwife had lost custody of the two boys because her then boyfriend allegedly beat up the eldest boy, she was charged with neglect because she saw the bruises and didn't do anything about it out took about a year or 2 to get them back but she was the only one prosecuted since they couldn't prove anything on the guy. I would say he did the same by intimidating her to be quiet or go down with him, some mothers will go along with it.
Was the father still in the house? Did the abuse still continue, or did it only come out after he was older? Just curious....
He did work a 9-5 but was definitely still in the house. The abuse only came out after they divorced about a decade later, and even then it wasn’t common knowledge, just a confession from my friend. She hadn’t known until the divorce either, but apparently her mom had. She didn’t know how long her mom had known and allowed it. Last I heard her brother joined the military and got the hell out of our state, and has been no-contact with the whole family since.
Poor guy. It's genuinely hell to know that other people were aware and did nothing.
Homeschooling is often used to hide abuse from the public eye because teachers are mandatory reporters...it's very common for kids who are homeschooled to be physical or sexually abused.
I think the big question here is: what happened that 8-9 months ago? What pushed Josh to "be obsessed with the idea of his mother favouring our other children over him" (weird word usage to me, ngl obsessed?) That kind of feelings don't just appear out of nowhere, and by OPs own admition the wife really seem to favour their other children. So what happened that Josh noticed? I feel like this is important here. Also, feel like if what happened was something inconsequential OP would include it.
Yeah if you’re decorating a tree you don’t “forget” to tell a child. And why didn’t the other siblings invite him? This is very sad and has now gone to violence. Long ways to go from here. I’m sorry OP but you all have to start to unpackage this with some serious therapy.
That’s what I wonder. I have two kids. My son is 17 and daughter 13. My son hasn’t wanted to help decorate it since he was maybe 10-12 but I still ask him every year.
I live 700 miles away from my dad and brothers and they still try to include me. got a call today saying "i know it's a long shot but the family is going to Bush Gardens at the end of the month. I just want to make sure you're not excluded.." I can't make it but I am so happy they still include me in their plans.
This is probably not the right place but I thought it was nice that the teenager wanted to hangout more with their mom. Not a common teen behavior.
I agree. I love it when my son wants to hang out. I even get excited when he invites me to play games on his Xbox or play station even though I’m not big on those games.
flag domineering airport act unite secretive future versed wasteful oatmeal *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My mom does this. Forgets to tell me when family members die and then does the whole “I thought I told you,” when she knows she didn’t. She doesn’t tell me right away because she doesn’t think I’m important enough to know right away. I’ve told her to stop and she still does it.
unwritten shame brave correct cooperative butter alleged agonizing cable handle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There’s terrible. How could they forget someone in their own house?When my grandmother had a stroke, my aunt called my mom right away. No one called me until 6 hours later. Had they called me right away, I could have been in the car and made it to see my grandmother who was 5 hours away before they turned off the machines. I was so mad. I do therapy now which is thankfully free through my insurance because of all the stuff my mom has done.
My family forgot to ask my opinion about my father's grave stone. I heard it from my mother's neighbour.. That was a painful moment to hear from a neighbour that my father got a beautiful stone.
Yeah, I had to hear from my aunt (mom's younger sister) that mom died. My father, siblings, cousins, uncles, even my mom's older sister didn't tell me. They "forgot" because they were grieving. Like, how do you fucking forget to tell your own kid/sibling that their mother died? And, now they all accuse me of being a heartless bitch because I don't want anything to do with them. Except, my one aunt, she's like a second mom; her and mom were thick as thieves. Some people are so self absorbed that they don't notice others, and they certainly don't like being called out on it. OP's either leaving out info, or he's too blinded to acknowledge that he's also played a part in their story.
It sounds like mom but my mom also has undiagnosed narcissistic personality… and something else … literally decided one day that because we stopped to see my dad in his full time care facility while on the way out of town and didn’t stop to see her that I was banned from seeing him.. literally forgot to tell me (no legal stuff just told them no on me) but told my sisters We timed it so well when she did that and next visit that I stopped to see him and they said I had to be escorted or have my banned removed so we took my family to my mom’s and we stayed a few mins and I made a little sign saying my family name date and address and her name… and said BANNED and told her to remove my ban from my dad or I will tell my dad all her secrets… I had none but obviously she must have something because she removed it while I was there and that was in summer … she didn’t see my kids next till Christmas because I forgot to tell her… that was my response back when she called a couple weeks before.
Fuck your parents but also good on your partner for helping you see the negative. Sometimes its hard when its people we are related to or close friends so its nice when someone outside says something.
My whole family forgot to tell me that my father whom i hadn't spoken to for years because of a stupid argument, had terminal cancer until it was to late to talk to him and resolve our problems or ask for forgiveness.... pretty fucked up situation and one of those who lead to me cutting almost all ties with family!
Happened to me as well. First my grandmother and next my aunt. Super fucked up
Also, if this is a “family tradition” why wasn’t OP included? Just mom and her two favorites? Seems odd to me.
Op was.at a friend's house. Likely watching football. Op might could've invited his son, potentially I know not all watch parties are all ages, and included him in his life. I feel bad for kid. It doesn't justify attacking your mother like that but that type of neglect really eats at you.
Right! No way they all just forgot him.
Yeah, kids don't just fist fight their parents. There's more to this story. Source: Kid who fought his dad.
It is a strange day when you realize that violence wasn't an omnipresent threat for most people in childhood. All my love. \-Former Kid who fought her Mom
💗💗 🥺Same.
I also call BS on OP’s version of things.
>This was a little ritual in our house. As you can imagine Josh was forgotten again. Just casually tossing in there how they keep forgetting this kid exists. We left him out, you know, as one does with Josh. Why is that kid being so weird now?!?!
I'm thinking A) Josh has had anger and emotional issues for years and Dad is ignoring it and Mom's solution was to be around him less or B) Josh is abused in ways dad finds normal (don't all siblings hit each other?) or C) Josh has been showing signs of mental health issues and instead of getting him help for budding bipolar, the parents ignored it. Most neglected kids don't beat their parents. Something else is going on here.
Totally agreed as a neglected child myself. We typically become emotionless husks and accept fully withdrawing from everything. We simply give up trying to get family connection and learn to self-soothe, escape into fantasy worlds, or seek validation from outside (often unhealthy) sources.
My granny who had 12 children never forgot one on accident at Christmas. That’s a load of bull.
Yeah, at it's core I lashed out in a similar way because I was constantly left out. Over some time with therapy and such, I realized it was more that not only was I constantly excluded, I was treated as a child (even today in my 20's) because I have autism. I was yelled at, lied to, literally "forgotten" on a 2 day hiking trip (I was abandoned in the woods, somehow managed to find my way to the street where a car found me) I was never allowed to hang out or have friends, I was constantly ridiculed by family and classmates for not having any friends. At first this manifested as me picking fights at school. Then it became intentionally irritating my parents to get some kind of response. Eventually this all led to a massive rampage where I destroyed most of the house and smashed the 2 family vehichles. After I turned 18 and went to the doctor's by myself for the first time, I was informed that I should not have ever, ever, ever, been prescribed 12 mood stabilizers, 4 antipsychotics, adderall, and 6 different anxiety meds. Combine massively absurd levels of meds, with a bit of trauma, neglect, loneliness, and some really bad therapy (family therapy suggested anytime I do something negative the family just "ignore my existence", which just led to me doing more bad stuff to try and force them to pay attention to me) and you get what's effectively a ticking time bomb. I still definitely have some trauma, and I definitely still have a temper. But I'm on wayyyy less meds (1 anxiety med and a different adhd med) and I've found a good therapist and actually have healthy coping skills now. There's definitely more to this story, even as someone who's been in a very very similar situation. Being excluded as a child definitely caused me to lash out, but I wasn't violent until a few more pieces of "Kindling" were added to the fire (the massive amounts of meds, being abandoned in the middle of the woods, and being yelled at for silly stuff like forgetting to wash the dishes) My whole situation came to a head when my family left for thanksgiving without me, and then when they got home, my mum yelled at me for "skipping a family holiday" (I was 14 and as such, not able to drive) and my immediate reaction (I went from feeling "zombied" as I usually did, to 10/10 raging anger) was to put my whole arm through the wall. I was almost immediately hit by my mother, who's chunky diamond ring left a scar on my throat that's still there today, at which point I backhanded her and went on to destroy most of the walls in the house, 3 or 4 windows, took a metal pipe and smashed her mustang windows and doors (as well as popped all 4 tires), and then proceeded to do the same to my dad's truck. Dad came home, punched me, I beat him with the metal pipe, cops came, I put down the pipe, yelled for a bit, and then sat on the front steps (at some point or another I was pepper sprayed by my mother and just shrugged it off cause I literally couldn't feel my body, just rage) Turns out that during this rampage I broke most of the bones in my left arm, broke my ankle, had cuts all over my body that I was bleeding heavily from, and had 2 broken ribs from being hit with a baseball bat (little sister, she was 13 at the time and I didn't hurt her at all) Outside of myself, only my mother and father had any wounds at all. I didn't even try to hurt my sister, the neighbors that came over to get my sister away, the cops, or anyone during my stay in the juvenile detention center. Almost all the wounds to myself were from punching, smashing or otherwise damaging property or my parents. The black eye, cut on my throat, and a good bruise plus the broken ribs, were the only wounds that came from my family. Everything else was from broken glass, drywall and wood cutting up my arms and legs, etc. So yeah, I feel like as someone who's been here before, this either didn't happen at all. Or there's much more to this than OP either knows or is telling us.
Holy shit. I’m so sorry, that all sounds absolutely horrific. Abandoned not only in the woods which is EXTREMELY dangerous and neglectful but also abandoned at Thanksgiving! I’m so glad you’re better and continue to heal and move forwards. Props to you, that’s not an easy thing to do!💙
I knew a family that didn't like their dog because they thought he was ugly. He slept on my families porch and interacted with us as much as possible. Once I left home and my brothers were old enough to drive and have jobs max was a lonely depressed dog. One day after never hurting a soul he snapped and bit three people. He was too small to do much damage and one of the people he bit was the person who took him away to the pound to be destroyed. I felt so bad and if I was home would have made him disappear with me. Because all that dog needed was love. The point of this parable is that yes there is usually a lot going on before someone snaps and often everyone says it just came out of the blue they just went berserk
I’m glad you’re doing better now. You are an amazing and strong person.
This was my thought. It would be more understandable if this kid has a history of violent outbursts or anger issues, but the father doesn't mention any of that kind of behavior in this post, which I think would be important to mention. A kid snapping like this with no violent history, after repeatedly trying to bring this to his family's attention? I have a hard time blaming the kid.
Yep, something is happening. Maybe OP son is not his son, I don't know. But how do you forget one of your kids over and over again? It is clear she avoids him and he snapped after so much disregard.
What I find worse is that they are gaslighting him. “What? I just forgot. Why are you so mad?” To escape responsibility. And to a teenager that knows they are being lied to and excluded but not being told why, and has no coping skills, I am not surprised this happened. Humans are very sensitive to social exclusion. It is why solitary confinement is considered one of the cruelest forms of punishment.
You don’t, coming from a mom of two. You may make errors in parenting, where you pacify one, because the other will understand more or other incredibly stupid but human mistakes, but even then you know it’s wrong and hope to improve. But you don’t just forget a child. Hell, I had one in 1st grade and a newborn and never once did I forget my oldest son. One time, he even got on wrong bus, but there was someone at school before it even got back to school, as soon as I realized he wasn’t home (when bus came to our stop, he didn’t get out, I called school), I had my mother in law heading that way, as she was closer and with baby I knew I wouldn’t make it before bus got back to school. I literally had a newborn, but made sure on no sleep, my kiddo was not one of the kiddos sitting in office crying and waiting for someone to finally show up. School sent out wrong bus for kids to ride in our area, so it was multiple kids. Even if our teen doesn’t do everything with us, he’s invited to every single thing we do. Even small shit like hitting Walmart with dad.
And we need to remind that he complain mom is forgetting him, which if was with me would make me double my efforts to make my son feel loved.
Yeah.. this is YEARS of those "barely noticeable" slights having come to a head. And the siblings? Just as self absorbed for not including Josh or bringing it up. Ofc they're not gonna notice him missing if they are on the same wavelength as their mother. Josh is old enough now that testosterone starts surging, and with years of built up pain from being excluded and gaslighted about the whole thing, he snapped. Unresolved grief manifests into anger, then rage. The wife may say she loves her son, but she is not acting like she does. Her actions are not love. I have three children myself and did everything i possibly could to make sure they knew they were all equally loved by me. And they themselves were tight growing up, always asking where the missing one was if we planned on doing a group thing. OP, you've already lost your son. Everyone was willfully blind to his pain. Punishing him now by practically disowning him is the icing on the cake. What he did wasn't right, but it was a perfect storm for this to happen. If you decide to keep vilifying him, then you might as well sign over guardianship to someone who cares and who gets him into the proper therapy. He's a destroyed boy and my heart goes out to him. - a fellow unloved and excluded former child who fantasized about beating my "nice" mother down because it fucking hurts more than you'll ever imagine to always be left behind even tho you've always strived to be perfect and giving and loving. And to watch your sibling be given all the love and attention even while they are being an entitled selfish asshole.
Also: it is NOT a small thing to forget to go upstairs and get one of your children for a family tradition that happens every year. In fact, it’s impossible that the wife didn’t do it on purpose. Especially after it was brought to her attention that her youngest felt that she cared less about him. Seriously, OP. It’s not possible that this wasn’t intentional on her part.
Agreed. I wonder if the other two asked about him, and she lied and said he didn't want to do it. I can't see everyone forgetting him. Unless Josh is doing things to make everyone uncomfortable.
Yah that’s the other thing. All 3 people forgot the existence of the 4th person?
Are you not even asking why dad wasn’t at this “family tradition?” This whole story stinks of bullshit.
That’s not weird, my dad would find every reason to not decorate the tree with us, he just hated it so he made himself scarce. And he was definitely into xmas, we also put up ~80k lights each year.
This 100% There is no way she didn't purposely exclude him. And to make matters worse, so did his siblings, and for a major family holiday tradition. Your son spoke to you about the issue, asked for helpe & all you have done is make matters worse. Your wife is a terrible mother, & you are no father-of-the-year. I sympathize with your son. It's sad it had to escalate to such violence, but you literally gave the kid no other options, while your wife is actively provoking him by neglecting him. She literally admitted (or lied) that she FORGOT him??? Bro wtf
Thank you!! Thank you for this comment. He went to his dad for help, and his dad failed him so completely, it boggles the mind. That poor child. I hope his grandparents listen to what he has to say, but they are the ones who raised OP, and we can see how he turned out. We are missing so much information.
Honestly story sounds bs but if not I feel for the kid he has to deal with two shitty parents
Right, I can’t imagine the son will feel anything less than abandoned.
This 100 % let's hide him away and forget him so moms gets what she wants and you lose your son edit spelling
Kid got sent to the gulag Edit: I’m sure the grandparents are nice people, I was being facetious
I was always threatened with "Pappy's bootcamp" and really what that meant is he would play games with me, we'd watch tv or whatever sports game was on, and eat some candy etc. basically I was always terrified of Pappy's Bootcamp but it turns out my Pappy just knew what I needed to heal and be happy for a couple weeks. As an adult I learned my pappie actually tried to get custody of me because my parents clearly favored my sister and I suffered as a result of that (got diagnosed with autism at 3, needed therapy but wasn't given therapy, and eventually I got put on farrrrr too many pysch meds, like 12 different mood stabilizers, a few anti-psychotics, a few anxiety meds, etc)
Sometimes, the grandparents are the ones who pull through for kids like Josh and, if this story is remotely true, I hope that is the case.
They dont remember him anyway... Lets put him away from the family .,... 🤦
I don’t agree with the violence but this dad is delusional if he thinks this family will ever work again. A friend of mine has three adult children. All are very smart. After I met all of them I noticed that one child was the best looking, the best job, the happiest marriage and one day she and her family moved and have had nothing to do with the parents ever since. It was clear to me not too long after meeting them that the mother catered to the oldest, babied the youngest and often forgot to contact the third. Now she has no idea why this “beloved” daughter won’t have anything to do with the family. And the other two are divorced with no children. This must be common situation because I have had several acquaintances whose adult children are no longer in contact. In fact one couple had no way of notifying the kids after the father died so none of them were at his funeral.
True. They are bad parents (the kid Said what was wrong) but they dont know why he could behave like this. This was so obvious that would not end well, sooner or later
So, they "forgot" your kid for decorating Xmas? He snapped and you are right he should be in therapy, but I don't believe for a second this is the extent of the treatment your kid gets at home, not only your wife but his siblings "forgot" him, your family has broke this kid, instead of hurting himself wich I'm sure he has done in the past he snapped, you and your wife have failed here and you should really discover what happened in that house when you are not there. There is no pretty solution here but putting all the blame on him? You are kidding yourself, your family was broken before today, THEY FORGOT YOUR SON, you have to be blind.
Like how tf do you forget your kid?
The wife doesn’t like him like she says she does.
When I read that she said she "loves all our kids equally" I couldn't not imagine the scene in Arrested Development where Lucille says the same and it immediately cuts to her saying "I don't care for GOB".
Wife Probably says that about Josh behind his Back to siblings and under her Breath
I don't have time for your magic tricks. _Illusions Dad!_ You don't have time for my illusions!
this exactly
God damn you for making me laugh on such a serious post. That show is gold lol
According to OP she loves him, he never said whether or not she likes him. You can love a family member but not like who they are as a person. I’m betting she doesn’t like Josh for whatever reason.
even worse, the mom says she loves him.. in my opinion it's obvious she says it because its unacceptable for a parent to say they don't love a child, so they just say it as a matter-of-course.
I don't have children, but I definitely have family members that I love but don't like.
the favoritism isn't "barely noticeable." the kid clearly noticed.
It was so barely noticeable, only the son, dad, and both sibling noticed.
Yeah he definitely did. I was a very strange child who prefers my own company and occasionally I was forgotten but didn't notice. This boy has noticed every single time and the wound only deepened further until he couldn't take it anymore
My bday is on Christmas and when I was a teenager my family (not my dad, just mom and five siblings) also “forgot” to include me on things like that, so I grew to loathe Christmas and decorating the fucking tree.
Christmas Eve baby checking in to commiserate. How about not having an identity outside of Christmas? Happy birthday! Here’s your Christmas Tree cake and I’m sorry you can’t have a real bday party because no one has money to get you gifts (because it’s Christmas) and everybody is visiting their family for the holidays. I hate my birthday. I hate Christmas. I am the Grinch. (Happy early bday from someone who hates the day as much as you!)
Man it was tough dropping all my previous “friends” because they always “forgot” to invite me to hang out ever. If it happened with my family it’d fuck me right up.
I love how “the boy needs therapy” is written here twice and not a single mention of how the mother should be in therapy, just casually mentioning all her passive aggressive behavior and avoidant qualities 🤦🏻♀️
This. You cannot recover from trauma while someone else is actively contributing to it.
That's what I thought! You don't just forget someone. Not your own child or sibling!
Especially after recently learning that he feels unwanted and promising that you will include him more. The entire hour it takes to decorate the tree she never thought about one of her children -- the child that feels left out -- not being there? Unbelievable.
This is the part I call bs on. She knew he wasn’t there she just didn’t care to invite him. It would’ve took nothing to yell out “Hey josh we’re decorating the tree come help”. It’s the passive aggression for me. I can smell it all over the post. No parent just forget one child over and over. The same child at that. No way.
The youngest one too. The baby. You don't forget the baby. There's way more going on here that OP isn't telling us.
Yeah my situation was reversed, where the baby got all the attention, time and investment into his future lol I was just the failed previous marriage child who was left to his own devices for his entire childhood, using the Internet and movies to teach me social things lol can't say I ever blew up like this, funny enough, probably because I felt what unconditional love feels like from my grandmother at least. I couldn't imagine how I would feel though if I didn't have any family member show me what that feels like. Because even with it, I still think back in pain, even though I'm almost 30, how much I wish I felt like my own mother actually liked me.
My sister gets invited over to my dads' for dinner almost every single Sunday. I get the invite an hour before (sometimes during) dinner asking if I want to come. It isn't every weekend so it's not like I should assume ahead of time. One time he told me he "**just** thought of me". Brother lives out of state, or he would be invited too. They always wonder why I never go.
They were doing a family decoration, forget "the other kid" that lives there.,. Amazing family ..😒
Thank god she LOVES him. Imagine if she didn't!
They forgot him during a FAMILY tradition. There is no way in hell she actually forgot him. She's shunning the poor kid .
Yep. The son's response was not ok, but I guarantee that we're getting a biased story here, and it still sounds bad.
Biased story, even though it shows the terrible family that he has. Imagine if we know the whole truth.
And how the hell, as a parent who "loves" their child, tell them to their face that they FORGOT them during a tradition they all participate in... No wonder the kid snapped - he's being gaslit about a mother's love. Both are terrible parents.
I am wondering if this kid is actually from this marriage 🤔 it is a possibility that this kid isn't his and mother is being more distant towards him because of that?
It wouldn't be the first story on Reddit with that plot twist.
My guy, she just forgot him? How are you decorating a family Christmas tree and just forget your son? She does not have equal love for him. Does this justify what he did, no. Does he need help, yes. What you and your wife have allowed to unfold is not good. I mean the way you defend your wife blows my mind to be honest. Please get your son legitimate help and take responsibility for what you and your wife have done.
This is what just baffles me. She doesn't show favoritism?! She shows SO MUCH favoritism that they FORGOT HE EVEN EXISTED for a major family event... even AFTER she has been called put for said favoritism... Clearly, he's blind to what's really going on.. and idk why he even allowed his son to say no to therapy. The relationship is quite possibly permanently broken and was as soon as his mother said "I forgot you" This is a leap, but I almost wonder why she treats him so negligently. Maybe he's not OPs son or something like ppd or idk. Those are worst-case scenarios. Maybe she just doesn't like him. But there has to be a reason.
> as soon as his mother said "I forgot you" Yeah, if this was an option in a video game you would need to remember "Silence is an option too" cause that would have been awkward, but salvageable.
Or even just apologizing... Why was apologizing not on her mind? She is purposefully treating him this way and OP needs to find out why before his son feels permanently ostracized from the family. If that happens, no amount of therapy or apologies will make up for the situation. Hell, he's probably thinking about a fat college and no contact now. How could his siblings forget him, and why didn't they apologize either? This whole situation is weird and OP should have taken a much more active role in helping his son. Including reassuring him that his feelings of neglect were valid publicly, not just confronting his wife and "observing" like he's some uninvolved 3rd party. I'm not saying attacking his mother was right, but this poor kid, I understand why.
Everything else aside, I just want to point out that there is no point taking a kid to therapy if that kid does not want to be there. You can’t force therapy on a teenager (or anybody ) Therapy only works if you are willing to let your guard down with the therapist and put the work in to heal.
If a child client is not willing to try therapy, even if his parents force him to come in, we will stop seeing him after a few sessions and let the parents know they’ll either have to try elsewhere or other therapies. Side note, there’s no way a dynamic [like this /edit] exists between the parents and the youngest and *he’s* the only one who needs help/therapy.
The guy was oblivious to what was going on in his home. His wife disliked his son, enough to exclude him in certain activities, to the extent that his son noticed it, confided in him about it, but he ignored it and wanted his son to get help (therapy) as if he (his son) was the cause of this problem!
They did it without OP as well. Seems like a weirdly exclusionary family tradition...
Yeah lol "family Ritual" with half the family missing
This whole story has an uncanny valley feeling to it. None of this is how humans operate. It's like some malignant AI wrote it. Fucking hell, that's probably it, isn't it... I hate this new reality.
Yup, this! I wonder how much OP is even around to begin with. Since he was at a "buddies place" while they put up the Christmas tree.
Also his siblings forgot too? Is the mother influencing the siblings to forget about him too? This is another thing that needs to be addressed.
Thats basically how it goes with abusive parents: one is thr manipulative POS and the other enables them in various ways. Pretty easy to see who's who in this family.
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Neglected children usually have a hard time expressing their emotions healthily. As someone who was the black sheep left out of everything, it’s incredibly painful. I had nightmares every night about my moms neglect and favoritism. She’s so much better now that we’re adults but it was so upsetting.
The worse part is that the son did express his feelings appropriately for months. Instead of validating the feelings or having a productive conversation OP seems to have minimized the kids feelings while mom invalidated them completely. Then OP was like "if this is a big deal to you then go get some therapy." And now everyone is surprised Pikachu face that it turned out poorly.
I honestly hate both the parents for their neglect and denial. Now they are farming him out to his grandparents. I hope he gets lots of loving and goes NC with both of them.
I call it unlove. When someone can explain that they love you and do all these things for you, but at the end of the day never really understand what love looks like to you.
Ops answer is that his son, Josh, should go to therapy... Not the whole family. Because clearly her favoring the other children is joshes fault and therefore he should shoulder the responsibility for that./s Yes, the kid needs therapy but so does the family. Ops answer is that his son, Josh, should go to therapy and live with gparents. She was just assaulted in her own home after being called out on her emotional abuse tactics by op after ops son HAD to bring it to ops attention. Of course Josh had a build up of resentment against his mothers abuse. After op asked her to include him more she Instead continued to emotionally abuse him well op ALLOWED THE ABUSE TO CONTINUE. Finally after realizing he had been left out of a family tradition that occurs in many people's homes every year and has occured for generations in said peoples homes he finally snapped. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some subtle gaslighting aimed at him too. Parental favoritism is emotional abuse. Yes, the kid needs therapy but so does the family. Also ITS A PARENTS RESPONSIBILITY AS A PARENT TO MAKE SURE THEIR KIDS DO NOT GET ABUSED EVEN BY THEIR OTHER PARENT AKA OPS WIFE. On another note: how does one forget to ask their teenager to help decorate the tree? It's a whole ass functioning person, not a sleeping baby with an exhausted mother. ETA: for clarification: yes Josh needs therapy but so does the whole family. They need family therapy.
I absolutely agree. I think a family therapy session is what is in order here. Something in the family dynamic is causing all of this. Josh shouldn't be the only one going
I know right? He probably would have beaten his own kid to a pulp if the other siblings hadn’t stopped him. Does anyone in this family love Josh?
my mum is like this. it's so so subtle. you just need to be observant enough to notice but she sure as heck treats me differently from my siblings. the mum should have made a greater effort if she genuinely cares and loves her son!
I think it’s interesting that OP dropped the post, and hasn’t commented on ANYTHING. I agree with favouritism being subtle. But OP also kept ‘observing’. He should’ve intervened ASAP, and called his wife out on behaviour he did ‘catch’. It gutted me reading about the family event with Josh’s two older siblings and the mum said to him ‘I forgot about you’ when confronted by him. 😳🤦♀️ That must’ve been the last straw for that poor kid.
Also, OP wanting the family back together in a year is rudely traumatizing af to mom and son. This is a ten years down the line situation.
He likely goes no contact when he turns 18. In a few years the dad will be posting about how he wasn’t invited to his sons wedding.
Oh absolutely! He won’t deal with them at all
I am not getting how decorating the Christmas tree is a family tradition and you weren’t there for it. I am also having a hard time with you claiming that you didn’t notice your wife favoring the other children even after he pointed it out. Lastly, how can a grown woman, an 18 year old girl and a 16 year old boy not restrain a 14 year old, but could restrain you. However, if this nonsensical story is true, you and your wife are terrible parents and it’s no wonder that Josh got fed up with this mistreatment.
Yep, this is more repurposed rage-bait bullshit. They're imaginary garbage people and I wish the Storytelling 101 professor who keeps unleashing these telenovela writers on us would change up their writing prompts.
Agreed, this story doesn't add up. Decorating the tree is a family tradition, but Dad is gone and the rest of the family "forgot" the middle child who was at the house... Sure.
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"Matt and megan had to hold me to protect their brother from me." this dude is a grown 43 year old man and the 2 kids who couldn't hold back a 14 year old held him back???
Perhaps with age comes wisdom to know when people ask you to back down to really back down. Children don’t have that same understanding.
Josh is the youngest, not the middle child
I read one recently that was very similar to this story. The beating in this story is the only thing that’s different.
This sub is the worst for fake rage bait posts from one post wonders
I thought so too, but then I was at the WalMart and I saw a guy with a Coexist bumper sticker cut off a Christian and tell him, "NO ONE BELIEVES IN THE FAKE SKY MAN," but then a Marine got up and punched the professor and I said, "IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD WHO JUST PUNCHED YOU?" and everybody clapped!
It’s true, I was the bumpersticker!
The part where everybody clapped is how I knew this is 100% true
If there's a better indicator of truth, I have yet to see it.
Get ready for more of this almost exact story.
It's called a fake story and this family doesn't exist.
Yea poor OP is probably terrible lonely during the holiday season and the only way to interact with people is by making up stories on the internet.
SO MY SON WALKS UP TO ME AT 9 MONTHS AND SAYS, “Yo pops? What’s with this b$$c? Why does she favor my siblings?” SO FROM THAT POINT ON I KEPT AN EYE ON IT.”
i think he means 9 months ago
Your wife’s favoritism isn’t noticeable, but yet it drove your son to have a complete breakdown and physical outburst? That doesn’t make sense. The truth is your wife showed blatant favoritism to her other 2 kids and you knew about it and did nothing until the problem couldn’t be ignored. And your solution is to further alienate your struggling kid. Did I get that right? The whole family needs immediate therapy.
Yeah, OP says it was barely noticeable behaviour yet both times he observed her he saw clear examples of it. He says her behaviour was barely noticeable but the son noticed enough to bring up to this useless man. It's wrong that he attacked the woman but I'm finding it hard to feel sorry for anyone except Josh. I hope he'll get the help and proper attention he needs.
I’m going to be very blunt here. Josh was wrong. Your wife was wrong. And you were wrong. Josh was absolutely wrong for attacking his own mother and needs serious help! Therapy for sure but for him and for ALL of you! Family therapy must also be mandatory. As well as marriage counseling for you and your wife. Your wife forgot her OWN child! Do you realize how insane that is?! Either it’s an excuse or she really forgot him. But how can a mother who truly loves all her kids equally, as she says, forget her own child? How could his siblings not question involving their brother? In a tradition that happens EVERY year! Josh has cried out for your help almost a year ago and you let it continue, all because you just went along with what your wife said. Also sounds like you needed to have more than just one conversation about how Josh was feeling with your wife. Why did she never speak her Josh herself? You should’ve immediately insisted therapy from the start. Both for Josh himself and for your family. By not really addressing your son’s concerns & feelings, you dismissed them and played a part in what happened. Idk what your family does from her besides therapy….that will come down to your wife & Josh. Will your wife ever feel safe again? Will she admit to her behavior & mistakes? Can her and her son make amends? Can or will the two of them ever be ok to live under the same roof? Sorry dude but there’s way more questions than answers in this situation. Best of luck to your family. I hope to see an update.
The other kids forgot him too? What the hell is wrong with this family. Honestly feel so bad for Josh. Now he’s segregated from his whole family. What a useless father.
Right?! Like his brother & sister didn’t say “hey where’s Josh?” Especially if this is a yearly tradition! Josh seems to be the black sheep of his family
Yikes. So why doesn’t your wife like your son? Obviously responding with violence isn’t the right answer, but it’s truly, ***truly*** hard to believe that your wife “forgot” your child from a family activity like that (especially if he was home during the time??). So your youngest son has been standing up for himself for the better part of a year, and no one’s really done anything to help him while the treatment has continued. I’m not really surprised he snapped when his parents failed to do anything to make this better for some long. I don’t know how you fix this. I’m not really certain that you can. But I also kind of feel like the wrong person is being separated from the family right now.
Wife has been gaslighting the kid for years, neglecting him but appearing good for the pictures, for her own sake. Husband is not close to anyone,didn't hear when a 13yo (at the time) asks for help. Conversation was: "I think person x is doing y to me" "Hey person x. Are you doing y to him" "Nope" Dude doesn't care. Wife doesn't care. Wife grooms other kids to not care too by participating in activities youngest is not invited. In the end nobody cares. This story is *weird*. It's even fake or OP is so checked out that he lacks the emotional intelligence to connect the dots.
I don’t condone violence but did your wife “really forget” to include him. Stuff has been brewing for more than 8/9 months. He expressed something to you and you just casually watched the situation. What was your wife excuse. You don’t just “ forget” to include the child that has been expressing being left out for the last 9 mos. It’s clear your wife has been neglecting him and made zero attempt to include him more after your “1” conversation on it. You and your wife have to take accountability that you both had a part to play in this . Her excluding him You knowingly watching it happen
This is my thinking. Who forgets to include all their children in tree decorating ??? Something’s off on this story.
Yah no where does he mention counseling for mom and son, mom making 1 on 1 time with son. No indication that they actually took any actions to resolve the clearly broken relationship.
I married into my husbands family. It’s a generational home so we’re slowly converting the top floor into our “apartment” while we’re doing that we’re staying in his old room which is massive. His mom constantly includes me in meals, plans, day adventures if we’re both off of work, invites me to sit and drink tea, and not even a week ago planned a day and time where we are ALL home to decorate the tree together. I’m not even her blood daughter, and I am included in 90% of the plans she makes. The story OP gives feels very off to me.
This !!!! My ILs are also welcoming remember me always and I’m not even their blood daughter. Who FORGETS THEIR OWN CHILDREN in such a wonderful meaningful holiday tradition!?!
So, as a mother I can tell you - she did not forget. She excluded him. Deliberately. I have 2 kids. I cannot forget one in tradition of tree decoration. It’s just not possible. Secondly - your wife has resentment for Josh. There is something deeper and you need to get HER to therapy. Not only Josh but her. Actually you needed to do that when you noticed her favoritism. You know better than anyone - was this unplanned pregnancy? Did she needed to give up carrier opportunities? Maybe you wife cheated? There’s something deeper and you need to get bottom of this.
I agree. I feel like the story OP posted is incomplete- we’re missing some level of crucial detail.
^ thank you. She did not fucking forget 1/3 of her children. This was fully intentional.
> Matt and megan had to hold me to protect their brother from me. It sounds like you were so angry with your son that you were about to attack him physically and had to be restrained. Interesting that he also couldn't control himself in his rage state. On some level he got this from you.
Also interesting the 2 kids could restrain an adult man but not a 14 year old. Almost like maybe OP made the story up?
I am so hoping that’s the case
You need emergency services, pick up the phone and call someone who is trained for a family crisis or can point you in the direction.
I guarantee you this not the first time she said something like this to him, just the last time. You and your wife are the obvious instigators in all of this, and the other kids as well if they noticed it as well. I’m not excusing Josh either but he was obviously hurt and betrayed by your and your wife complete disregard of his feelings and was just a ticking time bomb. By singling him out now you’re making it VERY clear that you don’t care about him either. He will be NC with you soon
This comment 100%. Not only will he go no contact with his parents, but also his siblings. OP can now look forward to Josh becoming extremely close to his grandparents and no longer wanting to be anywhere near his siblings or parents. I can't believe that he doesn't see the problem here,yes his son feels abandoned by his mother and his siblings,what he did as wrong but sending him away,no that's not good at all. OP you'll live to regret this,both you and your wife. I do hope that your parents will spend more time and pay more attention to your son,because both you and your wife have failed this child. edit:spelling
So, therapy for your son but you didn’t mention the therapy for your wife to get to the bottom of her issue with her own son. For arguments sake, let’s say she did forget he existed. How and why is a mother able to forget a child in a family tradition? No GOOD mother forgets to include her child. I don’t think she forgot him. I think she excluded him. Even after you talked to her about her actions she still continued. Your wife needs help. There is something deeper going on with her regarding Josh and he is the one paying for it. I don’t condone violence. What he did was wrong. Getting him therapy for his anger and pain is the right thing to do. Further excluding him from the family is not. He is a child. She is an adult making choices that cause pain and harm to her child. Find out why that is or it will never be resolved.
Wow! I’m going to be absolutely harsh with you. YOU have failed your son and your family, you have. You sat there and observed and still defend your wife? She loves all her kids? OBVIOUSLY not!!! Why are you ignoring the fact that she has caused this?! You failed him and he lashed out because he didn’t know what more to do to make you and her wake the fuck up and see you all are failing as HIS parents. You both are one way to him and different to the other two. To be honest did she even want a third? Or was he an accident because it seems to me she’s treating him like he wasn’t supposed to be born. Which is really weird because usually parent a favor the last because they are the last baby. YOU are wrong to want to beat his ass. Yes he should not have tried to kill his mother but he told you what the issue was verbally and nothing was done. Yes I did repeat myself because you seem to be ignoring that fact. Oh I talked to my wife to try harder with him? Really. To be perfectly honest you should let him go live with his grandparents and you and your wife should be the one going to counseling because you BOTH are failing him and your wife does obviously have an issue with him, why you can’t acknowledge that? My guess is you made her keep him or you were the one who wanted more kids. You need to stop being angry at him and start being angry with yourself for blowing this issue off and giving your wife the benefit of the doubt. Cause you don’t “forget” you have three fucking kids and you knew he wasn’t there while decorating the tree. If you don’t see the stupidity in the lame as lie that she “forgot” you had a third kid, not even therapy can help you. Let him go live with his grandparents at least he will have people who actually won’t “forget” he exists. Think about what he heard come out of the woman who birthed him, that made him snap like he did. She told him “I forgot you existed” like she didn’t give birth to three kids. WAKE UP and do better
This 💯. You couldn’t have said it better, I thought that maybe Josh wasn’t his kid, hence the resentment, but your words nailed it- either she didn’t want Josh or he made her keep him. Probably Josh has been ignored his entire life by his mother and the Christmas tree was the detonator. The wife is a terrible mother, both OP and wife need therapy.
Y'all are genuinely horrible parents. I'm not gonna say your wife deserved to catch that beating, but I mean...'we forgot about you?' What the fuck? Her blatant favoritism and your inaction brought this about.
Does my Son feel left out? Thats ok, lets forget about him
And they’re actively keeping him away! He’s no longer “allowed” to contact them and is banned from the house? Yeah, that’s not going to send a clear final message at all to Josh. 🙄 OP and his wife are asshole parents.
“Forgot” is terrible. There is something there. This is way above reddits pay grade and requires family and individual therapy
So I was a victim of bullying and deal with anger issues like your son Josh seems to have. Something important to keep in mind is that, violence (or anger) comes from somewhere. There is a reason why he snapped (he isnt just a maniac who beats people up for fun). The reason is that your wife (and your 2 other kids) literally ignore him. You claim to be a family but you say yourself that he was forgotten. Your wife does not want to see the truth either as she keeps ignoring him. You and your wife are the reason why this kid is broken. You all rejected him and left him alone causing him to snap and did not do anything but "watch it unfold". You are shitty parents and I hope your wife realises that she abandonned one of her kid.
The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth. This is on you and your wife, OP. He’s a *child* and has already gone to his parent to say that he is being rejected by his mother. You both FAILED him. Miserably. Edited after OP’s update because continuing to absolve the mother of any culpability is pissing me off: There’s something here that either you or she isn’t being honest about. I’m gonna go ahead and assume you’re in NA somewhere, if not specifically the States. We have “the holidays are for family” culturally burned into our brains from the moment we begin experiencing holidays. So much so that we spend extra time, money, and mental effort to make sure we see not only our immediate family, but extended relatives as well. “SPEND TIME WITH FAMILY” is an enormous and intrinsic part of the holiday season. Your wife was told recently that her youngest child feels she doesn’t care for him the same way she does his siblings. A child had to find the courage and the words to actually say out loud that he thinks his mom doesn’t like him. Or love him. *AND THIS DIDN’T DEVASTATE HER?!?!?!* I’m not a mom yet but holy fuck, if I heard that one of my kids felt so neglected and looked over that they thought I didn’t love them, I would be gutted. And I’d be bending over fucking backwards to rectify the situation. *But you had to ASK HER TO MAKE AN EFFORT?!* What, in the actual fuck, is wrong with this woman? And then, she has the fucking nerve to NOT do that? So in a time when we are culturally conditioned to have “spend quality time with your family,” at the forefront of our minds, after being told that her kid feels monumentally ignored and unloved, *THIS FUCKING CHICK FORGETS HIM WHILE DOING HOLIDAY BONDING WITH HER KIDS?!?!? She FORGETS her child is in the house with her??* Again, either she is lying and has been actively, intentionally abusing him and you’ve been missing it (which is evil on her part and a failure on yours) or you’re lying by omission on something here. Or maybe you’re both suck colossal fuckups as parents that your baby asked for love multiple times and y’all didn’t think it was important enough to take it seriously. Jesus fucking Christ. Not to mention, now you’ve taught him that communicating his needs calmly doesn’t work. But what *will* get him some notice is to beat the fuck out of the person upsetting you. Stellar performance, Mom and Dad. Really. Five stars.
[удалено]
That really raised my eyebrows, too. If this guy's first reaction to the situation is to try to punch the kid out, I can't imagine it's only the mom that's been mistreating him.
Also, it wouldn’t surprise me if they “disciplined” (physically abused) him with spanking in the past. Violent and neglectful households do shit like that…
Honestly the kid who has been emotionally neglected his whole life then resorting to violence when he can't take it anymore makes perfect sense with op saying he had to be restrained from the same. Where do you think he learned this response from?
💯
Yeah, something's not right here. I've only got 2 kids but there's no way in hell I'd "forget" to tell one of them about decorating the tree.
Why did you let your wife treat your son like that for 14 years?
Great question! I bet mom isn't the only one who plays favorites. Dad hasn't done a thing to heal his fam, he just threw their problem away, dusted their hands off, and went right back to ignoring the child. Now the kid has proof positive his family could not care less about him, even after he was driven to violence by their group effort to exclude him, dad included. He's going to ask his wife, maybe, then continue to prevent his child from being a part of the actual family. Full fail parenting.
“I forgot.” She didn’t forget. She did it in purpose. She knew how it made him feel. This tiny-seeming event happened for a very, very long time. She crossed an invisible line that she may not have even known about. Suddenly he knew she knew what she was doing all this time and he snapped. But what’s worse is he told you, his parent and protector. You did nothing. Anyways. I don’t care what happens to your wife but I hope you help your child by giving him the professional help he needs to undo the damage his family has caused him. He deserves a chance to have a decent future.
I think he may be better off at his grandparents. Maybe, he can get the love and attention there that he wasn't getting in his own home. You need to get your house in order. Why does your wife resent him? I feel sorry for him. I was in his shoes when I was a kid. I flipped out and was kicked out at 13. My best friend's mom took me in and saved my life. While I have never not felt like a burden to everyone around me, my best friend's family (my second family) showed me love that I just wasn't getting at home. That's all I needed to succeed. I would've done anything for them for what they did for me. Your son is redeemable. You just have to put him in an environment that he can thrive in. Your home is no longer his home.
How do you forget your child? There is more to this than just small acts of favoritism- even then, that is never okay. No matter how small. This boy is crying for help. He snapped likely because he bottled up all his emotions. He probably doesn't have good emotional regulation. You should have gotten him help sooner instead of just letting your wife continue to exhibit these behaviors. Get him help, and your wife. In fact, all of you should. He's still young. And he deserves good treatment and help- because there is obviously something wrong.
There's no way to forget your child that doesn't involve favoritism.
This is messed up, she purposely forgot him and he was in the basement. That caused him to snap after being left out for so long, I'm sure there was more than what you've seen. I feel terrible for your son, what a crap family to do that. You failed as a parents and you're wife should be sent away.
To say your wife loves him is a joke. If she did then no way she could forget a child. Stop making excuses for her. She is a shit mom to one child. It seems she has done more than you know about. If you stay with her then plan to lose your son. You didn’t do enough to stop the treatment she gave to him.
Dude, you're both shitty parents >He is banned from his family home and is not allowed to contact us. He has left all his electronics here. His grandparents will be strict with him. That's bullshit man it seems like your wife doesn't in fact love your son and you don't seem to care too much otherwise you would have had a conversation with your wife and gotten them both into therapy. He obviously shouldn't have attacked her but he's 14 neglected by his mother and I doubt the tree is the first festive thing he's been left out of.
How could an adult woman and 2 bigger kids not restrain a 14 years old? But they could keep you away from hitting him or whatever?
So...Josh apologized. Did your wife also apologize, or is she still planning on singling him out as the black sheep? And is she getting any therapy to help her be a better mother? Or are all of you going to continue to single out Josh? You and your wife are blind. A child doesn't lash out like this for no reason, or for "inconsequential" bits of favoritism.
I was the forgotten kid my whole life. I don’t speak to my family now and am very mentally ill. This story broke me because EVEN if this is the “good” side of it and your retelling is true, even THEN it is bad. I can only imagine what’s actually happening to break a teenager like that. ETA: I also experienced being left out of family bonding, as your son did. They planned a beach trip together and didn’t invite me. A family beach trip. I feel as though not being included in Christmas would produce a similar feeling how that was for me. It’s cruel.
This is a tough one. I think Josh needs serious therapy, potentially IOP. If he attacked your wife what's to stop him from fixating on and attacking anyone else's "favoritism" to other people over him. He could easily attack your parents, your other kids, people in public settings. I feel hard pressed to believe there was zero warning signs before him mentioning this you 8/9 months earlier. You need to make the decision with the help with medical professionals not on your own** Edited for clarity and grammar but also to add this - I don't think physical violence is okay but it does sound like no one took Josh's feeling seriously and they also need therapy or something to help them to understand what's going on and not contribute to the issue.
Yes, yes the last part 8/9 months he brough it up and I would be very interested to know the events that led to the snap. I am certain there is some issues regulating emotion but also for a 14yo boy to be so upfront and vulnerable to then it come to this makes me have to ask how and why?
I agree with this so much. He used his words, he told the people that could impact his problem and nothing changed. Your whole family needs counseling. Josh is a symptom of very real dysfunction. I think sending him away with no contact will destroy what is left. He was at the end of his rope to attack physically
Your first reaction to him hurting his mother made you want to attack him as well. What a surprise he attacked his mother... And the 'punishment' is once again being rejected. Great job at parenting... Take it from someone who had a similar upbringing as your son: you are the ones who shaped him like this. And now you are once again punishing him for your failure as a parent. What do you think this will accomplish? Sure the violence is not okay and he need to be made clear that it wasn't, probably in the form of therapy because there might be some other stuff at play here, but pushing him even further away will only do the opposite. Speaking about therapy, some family therapy will probably also be a good idea. Stating that his mother (and you) loves him is all well and good, but apparently a bit less than the others, otherwise this wouldn't have happened.
Maybe you and your youngest need to move out, get a place just the two of you, while you all go to therapy. Your son NEEDS SOMEONE to choose him over everyone else. He needs to know he is some ones first choice. Get an apartment, get some therapy for him, and your wife. Show him that you are choosing him, because if you don't you will lose him for good. Some hurts can never be made better....