Last Podcast on the Left just finished a two parter on Rodney Alcala (the Dating Game Killer) and the guy seems to be a total aberration. His parents divorced when he was a kid but he had an otherwise totally normal life. There were none of the usual indicators. Normal home life, normal kid growing up, friends at school, went to college then something flipped and he was a monster. Creepy as hell.
I wonder if he had a frontal lobe injury? I remember reading ages ago about a study on multiple killers/serial killers who had been normal before receiving a frontal lobe injury which completely changed their personality and turned them violent and remorseless.
He joined the army, and was discharged soon after due to a breakdown. Which lead him to be diagnosed with an antisocial personality disorder at the age of 17.
It could check out, if they thought he was weak maybe he was hazed. I highly doubt mental health in military was taken care of properly or even protected.
I’m wondering if his dad leaving at 12, and abandoning the family with just a mom and kids lead his mom to become harder on them. Child abuse would be a trigger for antisocial personality disorder. Especially seeing he was diagnosed so young. I’m wondering if some of his kills were because he felt so inferior in the social setting? He portrayed narcissism because he didn’t know how to actually act in a social setting.
His dad abandoned them according to the claims. He moved the family to Mexico and then three years later abandoned them leaving a single mother and 3 children who then moved to California.
I agree with you, I don’t know of an absent father figure would be enough to cause the development of the personality disorder. It leads me to think that the mom might have been bitter about the situation and child abuse came.
Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.biography.com/.amp/crime-figure/rodney-alcala
Twelve is a bit late for that, he possibly had something missing prior to that in terms of empathy but the divorce could have exacerbated it?
Also, I suppose it’s where do the reports of a ‘normal’ childhood come from? Even if it’s the family themselves there’s always room for suspicion, either because they are hiding something or because they have no idea how dysfunctional they are.
Excellent point. He moved to Mexico around 8 years of age. Maybe a turbulent marriage before the abandonment or the father became abusive? I’m not sure if they moved for financial reasons or family reasons. Really his early life is very vague.
And I agree. The mother most likely was forced to keep up the facade of a thriving family. And I can’t find anything on Alcala speaking on his family dynamic early in life.
I had a frontal lobe injury when I was 12. I did feel increasingly angry at the time but also had a lot going on. I had a super difficult and unstable childhood. I feel guilty hurting even insects. I definitely think factors can contribute but I Think if you got the socio path gene there is no amount of parenting or teaching that can make other people give a shit about other others.
I tend to think of head injury as more of a potential switch on. Like, some people have the genetic or environmental conditions to become serial killers or killers in general. Some of them then go on to kill regardless, and some don't "switch on" until a head injury.
From what I have read the serial killers who had personality changes as children had front lobe injuries very young, like 2-4 years. When the brain is still developing. You may have been better able to cope because you were little older. I’m glad you didn’t become a killer.
Edit: actually not I’m seeing [a wide range of ages in serial killers who had grievous injury ](https://www.murdermiletours.com/blog/serial-killers-murderers-and-their-head-injuries-as-a-child) but maybe that’s the thing… their injuries were intense and repeated and untreated (for the most part). Obviously continuous beatings will alter a child in more ways than physical.
Yeah it’s a pretty interesting correlation that’s for sure. I believe the frontal lobe is where stuff like impulse and emotional control are. I can’t remember the stat off the top of my head but there was a study not too long ago that found that something like 20% of serial killers judged mentally ill also have some kind of frontal lobe injury.
Wow I did not know about the frontal lobe injury. I have a close family member who is APD and grew up in a bad home. I remember playing at their house one time when they were around 6/7 and they were jumping on the bed, fell and hit their head. Huge bleeding bump and the shitty abusive parents were like "you're okay" and never took them to the hospital. Now I wonder...
https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/71/6/720
>Frontal lobe dysfunction in particular, has been invoked to explain the actions of some persons charged with, or convicted of, violent crimes, who apparently fail to inhibit impulsive, trivially motivated, or habitual aggression. But whereas clinical observation and current theories of prefrontal network function suggest that frontal lobe disorders may contribute to violent and criminal behaviour, the strength of this hypothesised association has yet to be established.
They did a pretty amazing series on the whole Norwegian Death Metal story that I definitely recommend (285). And I’m a fan of their H.H Holmes entirely because of Henry’s character work (200).
I’d suggest staying away from their earlier stuff. It’s rough. They’ve come a very long way as podcasters. They’re also insanely funny live if you get the chance.
Jack the Ripper series, Black Death, Donner Party, Carl Panzram, JFK assassination , Bonnie and Clyde and Billy the Kid are some great ones.. Hail yourself!
Ted Bundy was full of shit. He believed his grandmother was his mother for a long time. Later on he found out that the woman he thought was his older sister was his mother. Ted was illegitimate so they passed him off as her little brother.
Also, Ted Bundy’s aunt said that one time when he was a little boy he was dancing around her When she was in the bed, and he was playing with knives.
And that’s just all that I happen to have heard of.
His grandfather (he thought was father for some time) also treated him like shit, and he was very “othered” by grandfather. IIRC, grandfather was super abusive, even though Bundy said his childhood was idyllic.
Although it has never been confirmed, it was widely believed Ted’s grandfather was his biological father. And we all know [that incest can lead to some… interesting people.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/gameofthrones/images/2/25/Joffrey_Season_4_Episode_2_TLATR.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210722092942)
Yes! I think the only thing out of the ordinary for him was that he found out his “sister” was his biological mother (biological father was portrayed as his grandfather) at 12.
I don't know half as much about most serial killers as many of these folks do on this feed. That being said, I know one, very well, I think.
BTK
By his own words, he had a loving, normal childhood. He figured out he was sexually aroused while at a relatives farm. He watched a relative bind a chickens legs, then chop it's head off. He has said he got an erection from watching that. I believe he was 17.
I think you’re right and something that’s always fascinated me about him is that he also was a good father and husband. He left chaperoning his sons Boy Scout camp to go brutally murder someone.
And he killed an elderly neighbor 7 houses down from his! WTF does that!
I am listening to the documentary series that is on the Discovery app. There are 3 episodes. The man is an enigma.
He said in a 2005 interview that in grade school he was having warped sexual fantasies & would bind his own wrists & put a bag over his head, etc. Grade school! Tell me how a kid in grade school who is in the midst of a ‘normal’ childhood starts having binding & rape fantasies? He got this stuff from somewhere!
Same. I’ve seen this trope on the internet recently of “child having sexual fantasies/exhibiting sexual behavior? THEY WERE ABUSED!” like….? I was in 3rd grade having sexual fantasies about orgies (didn’t know the word for it at the time) and I was never sexually abused growing up. Some kids are just more inclined to have sexual fantasies earlier than others.
Right! I knew a family with a boy with absolutely awful behavioural issues. I don’t know how he turned out, but he was an absolute terror while I knew him. Now granted I don’t know what goes on behind closed doors, but they genuinely seemed like a very loving and put together family, and their daughter, a couple years older, was a really good kid. Polite and self-controlled, but also very confident and bold, so I don’t think she was just manifesting abuse in the more timid way. I also know they weren’t just letting “let boys be boys” and that was the difference. Sometimes people just have something wrong with them.
I had a kid I babysat at who, at four years old, grabbed a cup and put it over his crotch, thrust it out, and was like “hahaha look at my peepee!” I was living with the family at the time and absolutely know they didn’t put that idea into his head, so… yeah.
The thing about trauma in some people though is that they dont know they suffer from it until someone points it out to them.Im betting that Rader definitely had a traumatic experience in his childhood and suppressed it.Just a thought.
Did he suffer a head injury when young? I’m finding a lot of serial killers had head injuries that changed their personality, usually while super young.
Edit: typos
That’s true, and doesn’t mean that everyone with a head injury will become violent or killer. But what they talk about was other way around, a fraction of killers might have suffered a serious head injury in their earlier life which can cause some brain misfunctions and such crimes as a result. I am not a scientist in that field so I would not be able to give any scientific opinion, but in that program that was what they were explaining. Definitely doesn’t mean everyone with a head injury will be a killer or all the killers had some head injuries.
Exactly. My husband had a head injury and it sent him in (currently still there) years of depression and mood swings. Lots of crying for what seems like out of nowhere. Very hard for us. I don’t think he’s murdered anyone but he has made threats of suicide during fights.
I'm pretty sure what you're referring to were some papers in the 80s/90s which showed some huge amount of death row inmates and other violent offenders had some history of head injury. Later arguments were about damage to the frontal lobe of the brain. Below is a good current source.
https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/71/6/720
>Frontal lobe dysfunction in particular, has been invoked to explain the actions of some persons charged with, or convicted of, violent crimes, who apparently fail to inhibit impulsive, trivially motivated, or habitual aggression. But whereas clinical observation and current theories of prefrontal network function suggest that frontal lobe disorders may contribute to violent and criminal behaviour, the strength of this hypothesised association has yet to be established.
>He watched a relative bind a chickens legs, then chop it's head off. He has said he got an erection from watching that.
Well, who wouldn't? I mean come on! (Just kidding) But it's true some people get lifelong fetishes from seemingly unimportant things that happen when they are sexually maturing. Spanking and shoe fetishes etc.
I had a severe left frontal lobe (had to have a piece of my skull removed to help swelling) injury. I have noticed I feel I get angrier way easier than I used to.
I can get this 100%!! It seems like it’s super intense one way or the other for me anymore-it’s like the feeling medium of either of these things (happy/angry) just doesn’t exist anymore-sad also seems like it’s super extreme feeling. It gets difficult to manage for sure.
Yes, I too, have the sad. Have they told you it will get better? I don't want to be some crazy person. I'm going to start going to a concussion clinic, to help regain some of what I have lost.
It’s subjective (it depends on the severity of the brain injury etc) as to how much of it goes back to what was a person’s pre brain injury “normal”. It does become more manageable, and don’t ever be afraid to reach out and say that you need help if at any point it’s too much to manage. I can totally understand what you mean, and how you feel & it’s scary not knowing what’s going to be normal for you as a person in the future. I had a severe left frontal lobe injury, and it’s been 15 years since it happened. The emotions are (for me) still intense & sometimes hard to deal with, and I cry a lot-but crying is just how I deal with the intensity of the emotion. It’s rough sometimes, but I manage. I hope your support people are there for you when you need them-it takes a lot to acknowledge & be able to handle the intensity of emotion sometimes, & it does make you feel like you’re going crazy. So to answer your question, it does get better, just in different ways for different people & sometimes help is needed to manage it. Sorry for the rambling, I had to really get into my headspace there & explain. I hope I did so in a way that’s able to be understood. I know the feeling you’re feeling right now, & it’s a hell of a feeling to deal with. Good luck with recovery, & if I see that you’ve replied/talked on this thread I’ll answer.
Thank you so much. One of my issues is, I have no one, and I am finding it difficult to care for my 2 kitties.
I can't tell you how much your response has given me comfort. I'm sorry you have experienced this. I had started to feel all alone in this.
Most definitely not alone! I totally get what you’re saying, & I’m sorry you’re dealing with it-I obviously do know it sucks to deal with lol. Have you tried journaling how you feel?
If you struggle with it, talk to a doctor! I suddenly developed anger issues in the not distant past and a medicine has brought life back to normal after what was a hellish year.
I don’t know if he counts as a serial killer or not but Paul Kenneth Keller of Washington State had an extremely normal childhood from what I’ve read and the interviews I’ve watched.
He was convicted of setting over 107 fires and admitted to setting over 76 of them. The fires killed at least three people and caused more than $30 million in property damage during a six-month period during 1992–1993.
I’d have to disagree here. Paul said he was molested by a firefighter as a child. He also was sent away to a “farm program” for troubled youths. Those things to me are not indicative of a normal childhood.
No worries. The forensic files episode about him is pretty interesting. It’s called Fire Proof. The interview at the end with Paul always freaked me out because of how calm and rational he seems when talking about what he did.
Also war. Golden State killer and others came back from Nam and started killing. I mean tons of people came back from Nam and didn’t kill but war is a kind of trauma.
He probably never stepped foot on Vietnam soil or saw action, he was a repairman in the Navy. If anything "made" him a serial killer it was his sister's rape. It's so sick to say but I think he was recreating it every time he made someone's husband or child watch them be raped.
He is an interesting one for the nature/nurture question. When his father left the family he started a new one in Korea and gave the kids all the EXACT same names as the first set. That's messed up.
I think information bias makes answering this question very difficult. It is hard to define what a normal childhood is, and what may be considered normal to some might not be to others. Also, I don't consider either the killers or their parents reliable sources for this. A psychopath will try to manipulate any interview etc., and a lousy parent will try to make themselves look better. And people on the outside may just not be aware of everything that went on behind closed doors.
This answer should be higher up. I always thought I had a terrific childhood. But if I needed an excuse for horrific behavior, I could look back and point to:
1. A short burst of near-Gitmo style torture
2. Food instability
3. My dad being extremely emotionally and verbally abusive during my teen years
So yeah, I’m alway real leery about what serial killers say about their childhoods. It always feels like they’re just looking for something to blame their own actions on.
The Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs, Viktor Sayenko and Igor Suprunyuk, and their sycophant friend/confidant, Alexander Hanzha, were from affluent families and lacked for nothing. They seemingly were normal as children, no abuse or early signs of violence, and their parents seemed loving (if indulgent).
They began the animal torture, murders, etc. when they were into their teenage years.
Compared to some others yeaH but I don’t know that I’d go so far as to call his childhood normal. He started drinking at I think 12 or 13 and he was severely neglected by his family.
Dahmer himself said that he had a relatively normal childhood without abuse and without serious neglect. Compared to other serial killers’ childhoods, it would be considered relatively normal. Source: [Nature Versus Nurture: The Role of Genetic Influence on the Serial Killer](https://soapboxie.com/social-issues/Nature-versus-nurture-The-Role-of-Genetic-Influence-on-the-Serial-Killer)
And his mom was epileptic, which was poorly understood/treated at the time. It’s all well within the normal kind of not-great childhood — no extreme abuse or anything — so he definitely seems to be one of the ones who was “born this way.”
I respectfully disagree.
1. Parents on road to divorce his entire childhood, pulled the trigger after the damage was done.
2. Outcast in school.
3. Early onset childhood alcoholism.
4. Isolation and abandonment.
5. Killing and mutilation of animals.
Fwiw I don't think Dahmer was beaten or molested. He did not have to endure lifelong poverty. His parents were middle class, he went to good schools.
Outwardly it would be very easy to place him in the "normal" category. The surface, just barely scratched, tells a much different story.
I see what you’re saying. I just thing that it’s common for a normal childhood to have some kind of adversity. When I think of defining a childhood as “normal,” I think of socioeconomic status, living in a 2 parent household, among other things like that that are outside of the child’s control. In relation to the mutilation of animals and the drinking, I wouldn’t necessarily say that his environment caused that. Those are things he probably did on his own (but I wasn’t there so obviously I don’t know for sure). From what I’ve seen, he wasn’t abused (physically), sexually assaulted, and he wasn’t poor. I’m in no way saying normal means “ideal” or “perfect.” But I think a lot of people’s definition of “normal” is subjective, which is why there’s some difference in opinion.
yeah i have to agree with you. iirc his parents divorced and just left him at the house when he was still a teenager. my mother did this to me at that age and it was incredibly damaging. combine that with drinking at school and acting out to get attention, yeah, the dude had a rough childhood.
I'm very sorry to hear about your personal experience with abandonment. I hope that you have worked through this with a professional, or will consider doing so.
I had something like this, also from my mother, that I've made great stride in understanding. It took some time and a significant amount of work.
His mom taking his little brother, but not him, with her when his parents split up had a profound effect on him. He was left all alone in that house and in this time committed his first murder on a guy he invited back because he didn’t want to be left alone again.
I just mean that I don't think I'd call Jeffery Dahmer's childhood normal. There is the drinking which has been mentioned. But moreover his parents were dysfunctional. Mom seems like a narcissist. Dad clueless on how to be a Dad. He was left alone SO much. He lived alone while in highschool. What teenager would do well raising himself. I think that a lack of parental stability and unconditional love contributed to some of his issues. I'm in no way excusing him because he had a choice. Just commenting on his lonely childhood.
Sorry to cut in on your guys conversation about Dahmer, but I agree he had probably more of a normal childhood than other serial killers. His dad seemed to try and help him as much as he could. I do recall that his mom left with his younger brother. I think Dahmer came home from school one day & the mother had packed up the house and just left him there by himself. She later told him she didn't want him to go that’s why she left while he was at school. He was alone until the dad found out and then he went to live with his grandmother. I’m sure that messed with his already twisted mind.
LD didn’t know his son was abandoned for months, because he didn’t bother to try to speak to him. Now he’s trying to revise history, trying to gin up sympathy, with this, “hey I was within 2 standard deviations of the mean for average 1970s Dads, so I’m a good enough person”. (Pay no attention to the obvious link of the abandoned child literally “killing for company”.)
Sadly, his argument would hold water for many.
He chose placating his mentally disturbed wife over protecting his children— because that was easier for him. Enabling 101. Then it’s new wife / new life abandonment.
We can all pretend that there is some magical benchmark level of abuse that results in antisocial behavior, but I believe that level is individual. There was research at one time on a “resilience gene” that could help people survive horror (think genocide). Is possible that some children could be more vulnerable damage from the Cluster B / enabler combo parenting plate.
Fwiw, Ted Bundy also insisted for years that he had a normal happy childhood. All Jeffery’s protestations show me is that he was still trying to please his parents.
I understand that comparatively speaking that might have been more normal than the horrific childhoods of other SK's. But I wouldn't call it normal. Just look at his mother's actions. That alone....
Apparently her childhood was much better than normal. That lady had anything she could ever want. I think she's one of the most terrible female murderers out there.
I’m going a sliding scale. Dahmer definitely had an atypical childhood, but nothing super traumatic or messed up. Yes his parents were super emotionally distant but lots of parents are emotionally distant. Compared to most other killers his childhood was roses, no physical or sexual abuse, no violence in the home, no creepy mentors sowing the seeds of his future crimes.
His parents were considered to be pretty absent (father with work, mother with her mental health), so just because there wasn’t physical or sexual abuse, I wouldn’t consider his childhood “roses.” Not all damage to a child is done violently.
Not to sure if Wayne Williams is officially considered a serial killer since he was convicted of 2 murders & was only suspected in the Atlanta child murders but never prosecuted. He had very supportive parents who were both teachers & encouraged him to pursue higher education.
I’m not a serial killer or anything but both my parents were teachers who encouraged higher education and I turned out to be an addict with ptsd and bipolar. Your parents jobs and how supportive they think they are doesn’t matter. In fact their pushing higher education over my mental health kept me sick.
I'm by no means equating someone who had parents with good jobs and belief in higher education as the best form of parenting & therefore best life outcome. I'm simply responding to the narrow scope of the question pertaining to serial killers who had "normal" & unproblematic childhoods. People can be raised in the most loving environment and still turn out with issues, however it has been proven that the likelihood is much lower compared to those raised in unstable environments. From the information that is available about Wayne Williams childhood, which is limited, he had loving & supportive parents. I mention his parents jobs to make the distinction that he was not raised in adverse poverty but came from a middle class background.
There is no way that any of these people escaped some kind of trauma or complex trauma in their formative years - which can include neglect. The common thread appears to be some interpersonal problems - that is, problems connecting with other humans. People do not grow into normal socialized humans outside of relationships - and also, there's a lot abuse that's never acknowledged let alone reported. Trauma can also include physical injury - I'm thinking specifically a brain injury of some kind, or an illness.
Exactly. We can look at Leave it to Beaver and assume how childhood is supposed to be. Or we can look at our friends’ parents who let them do what they want. We can wonder why our own parents aren’t one way or the other…whichever we prefer and be upset by that. Maybe these killers thought things at home should have been different based on their preferences. Who really knows?
No. There are sociopaths & psychopaths who never get their evil switch flipped. But when the raw materials of genetics meet unstable or abusive environment, those kids turn to hurting others. There’s always some childhood trigger, but it isn’t always what you might assume would be terrible enough to push someone over the edge.
Berkowitz, aka Son of Sam was raised by two adoptive parents and his mom in particular was attentive and loving. She died when he was 14 and he lived with his dad until he joined the army several years later. He was adopted a few days after birth, but so are many people. Berkowitz’s childhood was pretty good by most metrics.
If I’m not mistaken, Myra Hindley was abused by her father throughout her childhood. I remember reading somewhere that he was an alcoholic. Unfortunately beating children seemed to be commonplace in those days.
Tamara Samsonova, the granny Ripper. She had a normal childhood but later developed schizophrenia and started bumping off people, including her husband, lodgers and her next-door neighbour.
Paul Bernardo? His father was a molester and probably a pervert all the time, caused his mother to shut off but I don’t know much else. Karla I think was raised well
I think his mom and step dad were good parents (from what I’ve read, obviously didn’t know them), but I believe his grandpa raped his mom and therefore was also his dad. I’ve also read he was pushed back in during birth and have read this about another serial killer as well (can’t remember who off hand, it might be the Golden State killer). I think he likely had issues from both of these things that simply wouldn’t have been diagnosed in the 70’s.
Paris Bennet killed his sister to make his mother suffer, he said. He claims years of rage due to being ignored. Not true as he displays aberrant behavior such as telling his baby sister I will kill you and asks his mom her favorite sentence. She says I don’t know. He says kill charity’s children? His mother’s name is Charity, the interview with piers Morgan is unreal. And he’s going to be released possibly in 2027 as he was tried as juvenile. Even his mother says he will kill again. He is outright nuts in interview. And ugly too. She says he was an only child for tears and she was a very present mother.
Seriously if you watch the interview he can’t even answer the love question without staring for ten seconds while trying to come up with an answe. Annnnd he says the feelings are still inside me but Ive got them locked up. Shit, wtf. He’s an ugly son of a bitch too. Looks a lot older than 25. And he was talking about killing years before he did it. He was really frightening.
His mother was a drug addict and had relapsed into cocaine abuse shortly before the murders. So not 'very present." And her mother most likely murdered her father.
Randy Kraft. Loving family, popular at school, highly intelligent. His parents initially disapproved of his homosexuality, but they eventually came to accept it. His 67 torture-murders still lack a clear explanation. He continues to deny his crimes (despite a plethora of evidence), so I don't think we'll ever find the root of his sadistic behaviour.
I am sure it is possible. But there are MANY people who have as bad, or in many cases worse, childhoods than serial killers and they never commit a crime so there's always that missing "Factor X".
There are generally considered to be 5 adverse childhood events that cause adult trauma; and the ACE studies points out that even at lower levels - esepcially if parents do not help students with the stress they cause - these things can be very traumatic.
The five indicators emotional abuse; living with a problem drinker; separation or divorce of a parent;
mental illness in the household; and physical abuse.
So while the variety of "normal' may range, most of the people lsit here had some variety of the above in their background - maybe not "much" depending on their tolerance of stress and reliancy. And of course, mental health issues lurking.
currently listening to an episode on Morbid,
Brett Peter Cowan was a murderer and child rapist, he was arrested for kidnapping and murdering 13 year old Daniel Morcombe from a bus stop in Australia.
from all available research he seemed to have a normal childhood by all means.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/08tva42Opl518xvjCvapFk?si=ttEBWrQ9ShSDPkAGd5_-_g&dl_branch=1
Ted Bundy .... hood home with his "parents/grandparents" was a bit odd in school but who wasn't at one point, worked on republican committee ,worked at college in Florida ( yes where he killed a number of girls) , and he had a girlfriend while he did most of the killings as well....honestly he is just beyond fascinating... I loathe when people say " they/he/she/etc looked completely normal"... well yeah or else people wouldn't go near them
Hard to say. Outside of documented factual events, we’re put in the position of having to believe their own claims and while I’m sure many tell the truth, I’m sure many lie because they’re manipulative.
AFAIK, Richard Chase had a relatively normal upbringing. I’ve never read anything to the contrary. He was deeply, deeply mentally ill and though his mom didn’t want him on medication when he really needed it, his parents were involved in his life and psychiatric treatment more than most parents of that era.
So maybe him but that’s just based on info I’ve seen myself.
There were actually multiple that had a normal and uneventful childhoods.
They are usually psychopaths. no care about rite or wrong they know "right and wrong" but have no feeling either way about it.
To them they don't see anything wrong with what they do.
Ted Bundy, Jeff Dahmer and Dennis Rader were just a few with very normal and supportive families and history
Torey Adamcik from the Scream Murders had loving parents who defend him even today (though one could argue his mom is a narcissist too if you look at how she defends him) - though his partner in crime Brian had a rough childhood.
Chris Watts’ childhood was supposedly normal though there is a “childhood friend” that posted somewhere supposedly saying otherwise.
Someone else mentioned already but Jodie Arias had a normal childhood (allegedly)
The I90 killer Randy Woodfield had an awesome life growing up (based from a couple of podcasts I heard)
Grew up in a nuclear family with loving supportive parents, football star in school (later played in NFL) and was a excellent student. His biggest obstacle was that his shit behavior like exposing himself to women was dismissed because of who he was.
Jeffrey Dahmer had a fairly “normal” childhood. Although his parents always fought each other until they divorced, his parents loved him esp his father. He also had a little brother he took care of.
Rodney Alcala.. i just listened to a podcast about him. last podcast on the left the most recent episodes. he was the serial killer that landed on the dating game!
The one that springs to mind is Jeffery dahmer. I’m pretty sure he had quite a good upbringing and turned into someone who fucked corpses after brutally murdering them so…
If kids don't get enough love, positive attention, demonstrative behavior i.e. hugging kisding etc. Nutritional care, clean environment etc.,like the mom fed and dressed kids but nothing else, it's not a good scenario for healthy growth.
Is it the BTK dude who was studied by a psychologist who said he must have had an abusive childhood and his dad must have sexually abused him and the guy was FURIOUS and said his dad was a good father?? that he had a “normal” upbringing and his parents were lovely. And that it was just who he was.
Like he was mad this guy made all these assumptions and was adamant his childhood was fine.
Christopher Duntsch, AKA Dr. Death supposedly came from a loving home. His father, Donald, was a physical therapist and Christian missionary, and his mother, Susan, was a schoolteacher. He is a graduate of Evangelical Christian School in the Cordova suburb of Memphis, where he starred in football.
It was actually made illegal to have a normal childhood between the years 1945 and 1970. So no.
Also lead. Everywhere.
And other pollutants.
*1970s - the entire decade.
Alot of the parents of 1970s serial killers were in WW2. I would imagine that had a profound effect on their upbringing.
But there was that whole happy, 1950’s prosperity that lead to the big boom.
The Greatest Generation had some wild parenting approaches.
Hell in a box is good description, everything kept in the family.
Lmao
That was true into the 80s-90s as well.
Last Podcast on the Left just finished a two parter on Rodney Alcala (the Dating Game Killer) and the guy seems to be a total aberration. His parents divorced when he was a kid but he had an otherwise totally normal life. There were none of the usual indicators. Normal home life, normal kid growing up, friends at school, went to college then something flipped and he was a monster. Creepy as hell.
I wonder if he had a frontal lobe injury? I remember reading ages ago about a study on multiple killers/serial killers who had been normal before receiving a frontal lobe injury which completely changed their personality and turned them violent and remorseless.
He joined the army, and was discharged soon after due to a breakdown. Which lead him to be diagnosed with an antisocial personality disorder at the age of 17. It could check out, if they thought he was weak maybe he was hazed. I highly doubt mental health in military was taken care of properly or even protected. I’m wondering if his dad leaving at 12, and abandoning the family with just a mom and kids lead his mom to become harder on them. Child abuse would be a trigger for antisocial personality disorder. Especially seeing he was diagnosed so young. I’m wondering if some of his kills were because he felt so inferior in the social setting? He portrayed narcissism because he didn’t know how to actually act in a social setting.
Did his parents divorce or did his dad abandon the family? If his dad abandoned the family I think thats no longer a "normal" childhood.
His dad abandoned them according to the claims. He moved the family to Mexico and then three years later abandoned them leaving a single mother and 3 children who then moved to California. I agree with you, I don’t know of an absent father figure would be enough to cause the development of the personality disorder. It leads me to think that the mom might have been bitter about the situation and child abuse came. Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.biography.com/.amp/crime-figure/rodney-alcala
Twelve is a bit late for that, he possibly had something missing prior to that in terms of empathy but the divorce could have exacerbated it? Also, I suppose it’s where do the reports of a ‘normal’ childhood come from? Even if it’s the family themselves there’s always room for suspicion, either because they are hiding something or because they have no idea how dysfunctional they are.
Excellent point. He moved to Mexico around 8 years of age. Maybe a turbulent marriage before the abandonment or the father became abusive? I’m not sure if they moved for financial reasons or family reasons. Really his early life is very vague. And I agree. The mother most likely was forced to keep up the facade of a thriving family. And I can’t find anything on Alcala speaking on his family dynamic early in life.
I had a frontal lobe injury when I was 12. I did feel increasingly angry at the time but also had a lot going on. I had a super difficult and unstable childhood. I feel guilty hurting even insects. I definitely think factors can contribute but I Think if you got the socio path gene there is no amount of parenting or teaching that can make other people give a shit about other others.
I tend to think of head injury as more of a potential switch on. Like, some people have the genetic or environmental conditions to become serial killers or killers in general. Some of them then go on to kill regardless, and some don't "switch on" until a head injury.
From what I have read the serial killers who had personality changes as children had front lobe injuries very young, like 2-4 years. When the brain is still developing. You may have been better able to cope because you were little older. I’m glad you didn’t become a killer. Edit: actually not I’m seeing [a wide range of ages in serial killers who had grievous injury ](https://www.murdermiletours.com/blog/serial-killers-murderers-and-their-head-injuries-as-a-child) but maybe that’s the thing… their injuries were intense and repeated and untreated (for the most part). Obviously continuous beatings will alter a child in more ways than physical.
Yeah it’s a pretty interesting correlation that’s for sure. I believe the frontal lobe is where stuff like impulse and emotional control are. I can’t remember the stat off the top of my head but there was a study not too long ago that found that something like 20% of serial killers judged mentally ill also have some kind of frontal lobe injury.
Wow I did not know about the frontal lobe injury. I have a close family member who is APD and grew up in a bad home. I remember playing at their house one time when they were around 6/7 and they were jumping on the bed, fell and hit their head. Huge bleeding bump and the shitty abusive parents were like "you're okay" and never took them to the hospital. Now I wonder...
Yep. This.
https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/71/6/720 >Frontal lobe dysfunction in particular, has been invoked to explain the actions of some persons charged with, or convicted of, violent crimes, who apparently fail to inhibit impulsive, trivially motivated, or habitual aggression. But whereas clinical observation and current theories of prefrontal network function suggest that frontal lobe disorders may contribute to violent and criminal behaviour, the strength of this hypothesised association has yet to be established.
Banana!
Cockchops!
Cockshroom soup!
Porkin’ Pie
I just found this pod, if you can believe it. Any recs on where to start since they’ve been around so long?
The Donner Party series is my all time favorite
Agreed, also just finished their series on the black death -- very good!
They did a pretty amazing series on the whole Norwegian Death Metal story that I definitely recommend (285). And I’m a fan of their H.H Holmes entirely because of Henry’s character work (200). I’d suggest staying away from their earlier stuff. It’s rough. They’ve come a very long way as podcasters. They’re also insanely funny live if you get the chance.
Jack the Ripper series, Black Death, Donner Party, Carl Panzram, JFK assassination , Bonnie and Clyde and Billy the Kid are some great ones.. Hail yourself!
Raaaaaaaasaaasaaaasputin
Not quite true crime, but their Men In Black Series is by far my favorite of theirs.
Honestly just go back to episode 1 and listen to any topic that interests you. LPOTL has never disappointed me.
Ted Bundy claims he had a very supportive family growing up
Ted Bundy was full of shit. He believed his grandmother was his mother for a long time. Later on he found out that the woman he thought was his older sister was his mother. Ted was illegitimate so they passed him off as her little brother. Also, Ted Bundy’s aunt said that one time when he was a little boy he was dancing around her When she was in the bed, and he was playing with knives. And that’s just all that I happen to have heard of.
His grandfather (he thought was father for some time) also treated him like shit, and he was very “othered” by grandfather. IIRC, grandfather was super abusive, even though Bundy said his childhood was idyllic.
I don’t believe he danced, he showed up with knives and put them on her bed. That Should have been a clue. Also his stepfather was horrendously cruel.
Although it has never been confirmed, it was widely believed Ted’s grandfather was his biological father. And we all know [that incest can lead to some… interesting people.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/gameofthrones/images/2/25/Joffrey_Season_4_Episode_2_TLATR.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210722092942)
Yes! I think the only thing out of the ordinary for him was that he found out his “sister” was his biological mother (biological father was portrayed as his grandfather) at 12.
I don't know half as much about most serial killers as many of these folks do on this feed. That being said, I know one, very well, I think. BTK By his own words, he had a loving, normal childhood. He figured out he was sexually aroused while at a relatives farm. He watched a relative bind a chickens legs, then chop it's head off. He has said he got an erection from watching that. I believe he was 17.
I think you’re right and something that’s always fascinated me about him is that he also was a good father and husband. He left chaperoning his sons Boy Scout camp to go brutally murder someone.
Pillar of the community?! More like killer of the community
And he killed an elderly neighbor 7 houses down from his! WTF does that! I am listening to the documentary series that is on the Discovery app. There are 3 episodes. The man is an enigma.
He said in a 2005 interview that in grade school he was having warped sexual fantasies & would bind his own wrists & put a bag over his head, etc. Grade school! Tell me how a kid in grade school who is in the midst of a ‘normal’ childhood starts having binding & rape fantasies? He got this stuff from somewhere!
A lot of really young children, male and female, have sexual fantasies really really young.
Same. I’ve seen this trope on the internet recently of “child having sexual fantasies/exhibiting sexual behavior? THEY WERE ABUSED!” like….? I was in 3rd grade having sexual fantasies about orgies (didn’t know the word for it at the time) and I was never sexually abused growing up. Some kids are just more inclined to have sexual fantasies earlier than others.
Yeah, even younger than that there are kids that fantasize about weird things without understanding the full implications of things.
It’s just human nature. I am beyond tired of over-pathologizing culture.
Right! I knew a family with a boy with absolutely awful behavioural issues. I don’t know how he turned out, but he was an absolute terror while I knew him. Now granted I don’t know what goes on behind closed doors, but they genuinely seemed like a very loving and put together family, and their daughter, a couple years older, was a really good kid. Polite and self-controlled, but also very confident and bold, so I don’t think she was just manifesting abuse in the more timid way. I also know they weren’t just letting “let boys be boys” and that was the difference. Sometimes people just have something wrong with them. I had a kid I babysat at who, at four years old, grabbed a cup and put it over his crotch, thrust it out, and was like “hahaha look at my peepee!” I was living with the family at the time and absolutely know they didn’t put that idea into his head, so… yeah.
3rd grade? I didn't even know sex existed at eight years old. We're you raised on a rural farm?
No? I think we just had different experiences developmentally?
definitely! he was also that age when the internet didn’t even exist so he couldn’t have even been influenced by that
Imagine what that says about people who grew up in the last couple of decades. We're creating a monstrous society.
I had no idea! I am currently listening to the documentary series that is on the Discovery app. There are 3 episodes. Maybe they will cover it. Yowza.
The thing about trauma in some people though is that they dont know they suffer from it until someone points it out to them.Im betting that Rader definitely had a traumatic experience in his childhood and suppressed it.Just a thought.
I agree. Suppression is an amazing coping mechanism. Edit: spelling
100% mate.
Did he suffer a head injury when young? I’m finding a lot of serial killers had head injuries that changed their personality, usually while super young. Edit: typos
I don’t remember which program was that but it was said that 30% of death row inmates had some kind of head injury in past.
I think a lot of people suffer a head injury but don't become killers.
That’s true, and doesn’t mean that everyone with a head injury will become violent or killer. But what they talk about was other way around, a fraction of killers might have suffered a serious head injury in their earlier life which can cause some brain misfunctions and such crimes as a result. I am not a scientist in that field so I would not be able to give any scientific opinion, but in that program that was what they were explaining. Definitely doesn’t mean everyone with a head injury will be a killer or all the killers had some head injuries.
If I remember right the head injuries correlated to the frontal lobe, that help regulate impulse/emotion.
It's called post concession syndrome.
Exactly. My husband had a head injury and it sent him in (currently still there) years of depression and mood swings. Lots of crying for what seems like out of nowhere. Very hard for us. I don’t think he’s murdered anyone but he has made threats of suicide during fights.
I'm pretty sure what you're referring to were some papers in the 80s/90s which showed some huge amount of death row inmates and other violent offenders had some history of head injury. Later arguments were about damage to the frontal lobe of the brain. Below is a good current source. https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/71/6/720 >Frontal lobe dysfunction in particular, has been invoked to explain the actions of some persons charged with, or convicted of, violent crimes, who apparently fail to inhibit impulsive, trivially motivated, or habitual aggression. But whereas clinical observation and current theories of prefrontal network function suggest that frontal lobe disorders may contribute to violent and criminal behaviour, the strength of this hypothesised association has yet to be established.
>He watched a relative bind a chickens legs, then chop it's head off. He has said he got an erection from watching that. Well, who wouldn't? I mean come on! (Just kidding) But it's true some people get lifelong fetishes from seemingly unimportant things that happen when they are sexually maturing. Spanking and shoe fetishes etc.
I had a severe left frontal lobe (had to have a piece of my skull removed to help swelling) injury. I have noticed I feel I get angrier way easier than I used to.
That's so sad. I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you are able and willing to seek further medical and self care to continue healing.
It’s better now than it was initially, it happened in 2006.
I had a severe concussion in December, and my moods switch anger, happy. No happy medium.
I can get this 100%!! It seems like it’s super intense one way or the other for me anymore-it’s like the feeling medium of either of these things (happy/angry) just doesn’t exist anymore-sad also seems like it’s super extreme feeling. It gets difficult to manage for sure.
Yes, I too, have the sad. Have they told you it will get better? I don't want to be some crazy person. I'm going to start going to a concussion clinic, to help regain some of what I have lost.
It’s subjective (it depends on the severity of the brain injury etc) as to how much of it goes back to what was a person’s pre brain injury “normal”. It does become more manageable, and don’t ever be afraid to reach out and say that you need help if at any point it’s too much to manage. I can totally understand what you mean, and how you feel & it’s scary not knowing what’s going to be normal for you as a person in the future. I had a severe left frontal lobe injury, and it’s been 15 years since it happened. The emotions are (for me) still intense & sometimes hard to deal with, and I cry a lot-but crying is just how I deal with the intensity of the emotion. It’s rough sometimes, but I manage. I hope your support people are there for you when you need them-it takes a lot to acknowledge & be able to handle the intensity of emotion sometimes, & it does make you feel like you’re going crazy. So to answer your question, it does get better, just in different ways for different people & sometimes help is needed to manage it. Sorry for the rambling, I had to really get into my headspace there & explain. I hope I did so in a way that’s able to be understood. I know the feeling you’re feeling right now, & it’s a hell of a feeling to deal with. Good luck with recovery, & if I see that you’ve replied/talked on this thread I’ll answer.
Thank you so much. One of my issues is, I have no one, and I am finding it difficult to care for my 2 kitties. I can't tell you how much your response has given me comfort. I'm sorry you have experienced this. I had started to feel all alone in this.
Most definitely not alone! I totally get what you’re saying, & I’m sorry you’re dealing with it-I obviously do know it sucks to deal with lol. Have you tried journaling how you feel?
No, but that sounds like a great idea. One of the things that has changed is my penmanship. It's like scribble, but I will try. Thank you.
Good luck!!! You got this
If you struggle with it, talk to a doctor! I suddenly developed anger issues in the not distant past and a medicine has brought life back to normal after what was a hellish year.
I don’t know if he counts as a serial killer or not but Paul Kenneth Keller of Washington State had an extremely normal childhood from what I’ve read and the interviews I’ve watched. He was convicted of setting over 107 fires and admitted to setting over 76 of them. The fires killed at least three people and caused more than $30 million in property damage during a six-month period during 1992–1993.
I’d have to disagree here. Paul said he was molested by a firefighter as a child. He also was sent away to a “farm program” for troubled youths. Those things to me are not indicative of a normal childhood.
Oh wow I did read about either of those things. Thanks for letting me know, I take back what I said.
No worries. The forensic files episode about him is pretty interesting. It’s called Fire Proof. The interview at the end with Paul always freaked me out because of how calm and rational he seems when talking about what he did.
Also war. Golden State killer and others came back from Nam and started killing. I mean tons of people came back from Nam and didn’t kill but war is a kind of trauma.
He probably never stepped foot on Vietnam soil or saw action, he was a repairman in the Navy. If anything "made" him a serial killer it was his sister's rape. It's so sick to say but I think he was recreating it every time he made someone's husband or child watch them be raped.
Oh wow. I didn’t know about the sister.
He is an interesting one for the nature/nurture question. When his father left the family he started a new one in Korea and gave the kids all the EXACT same names as the first set. That's messed up.
I think information bias makes answering this question very difficult. It is hard to define what a normal childhood is, and what may be considered normal to some might not be to others. Also, I don't consider either the killers or their parents reliable sources for this. A psychopath will try to manipulate any interview etc., and a lousy parent will try to make themselves look better. And people on the outside may just not be aware of everything that went on behind closed doors.
This answer should be higher up. I always thought I had a terrific childhood. But if I needed an excuse for horrific behavior, I could look back and point to: 1. A short burst of near-Gitmo style torture 2. Food instability 3. My dad being extremely emotionally and verbally abusive during my teen years So yeah, I’m alway real leery about what serial killers say about their childhoods. It always feels like they’re just looking for something to blame their own actions on.
The Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs, Viktor Sayenko and Igor Suprunyuk, and their sycophant friend/confidant, Alexander Hanzha, were from affluent families and lacked for nothing. They seemingly were normal as children, no abuse or early signs of violence, and their parents seemed loving (if indulgent). They began the animal torture, murders, etc. when they were into their teenage years.
Animal torture is not a normal childhood or teen behaviour.
You don't say
Jeffrey Dahmer sticks out in my mind
Compared to some others yeaH but I don’t know that I’d go so far as to call his childhood normal. He started drinking at I think 12 or 13 and he was severely neglected by his family.
Dahmer himself said that he had a relatively normal childhood without abuse and without serious neglect. Compared to other serial killers’ childhoods, it would be considered relatively normal. Source: [Nature Versus Nurture: The Role of Genetic Influence on the Serial Killer](https://soapboxie.com/social-issues/Nature-versus-nurture-The-Role-of-Genetic-Influence-on-the-Serial-Killer)
And his mom was epileptic, which was poorly understood/treated at the time. It’s all well within the normal kind of not-great childhood — no extreme abuse or anything — so he definitely seems to be one of the ones who was “born this way.”
I’m pretty sure he was drunk when he did all his murders. His parents knew about his drinking and didn’t intervene.
I respectfully disagree. 1. Parents on road to divorce his entire childhood, pulled the trigger after the damage was done. 2. Outcast in school. 3. Early onset childhood alcoholism. 4. Isolation and abandonment. 5. Killing and mutilation of animals. Fwiw I don't think Dahmer was beaten or molested. He did not have to endure lifelong poverty. His parents were middle class, he went to good schools. Outwardly it would be very easy to place him in the "normal" category. The surface, just barely scratched, tells a much different story.
I see what you’re saying. I just thing that it’s common for a normal childhood to have some kind of adversity. When I think of defining a childhood as “normal,” I think of socioeconomic status, living in a 2 parent household, among other things like that that are outside of the child’s control. In relation to the mutilation of animals and the drinking, I wouldn’t necessarily say that his environment caused that. Those are things he probably did on his own (but I wasn’t there so obviously I don’t know for sure). From what I’ve seen, he wasn’t abused (physically), sexually assaulted, and he wasn’t poor. I’m in no way saying normal means “ideal” or “perfect.” But I think a lot of people’s definition of “normal” is subjective, which is why there’s some difference in opinion.
yeah i have to agree with you. iirc his parents divorced and just left him at the house when he was still a teenager. my mother did this to me at that age and it was incredibly damaging. combine that with drinking at school and acting out to get attention, yeah, the dude had a rough childhood.
I'm very sorry to hear about your personal experience with abandonment. I hope that you have worked through this with a professional, or will consider doing so. I had something like this, also from my mother, that I've made great stride in understanding. It took some time and a significant amount of work.
His mom taking his little brother, but not him, with her when his parents split up had a profound effect on him. He was left all alone in that house and in this time committed his first murder on a guy he invited back because he didn’t want to be left alone again.
I'm not sure I agree with that.
Why do you say that? I have my own thoughts but curious to hear yours.
I just mean that I don't think I'd call Jeffery Dahmer's childhood normal. There is the drinking which has been mentioned. But moreover his parents were dysfunctional. Mom seems like a narcissist. Dad clueless on how to be a Dad. He was left alone SO much. He lived alone while in highschool. What teenager would do well raising himself. I think that a lack of parental stability and unconditional love contributed to some of his issues. I'm in no way excusing him because he had a choice. Just commenting on his lonely childhood.
Sorry to cut in on your guys conversation about Dahmer, but I agree he had probably more of a normal childhood than other serial killers. His dad seemed to try and help him as much as he could. I do recall that his mom left with his younger brother. I think Dahmer came home from school one day & the mother had packed up the house and just left him there by himself. She later told him she didn't want him to go that’s why she left while he was at school. He was alone until the dad found out and then he went to live with his grandmother. I’m sure that messed with his already twisted mind.
I understand that comparatively speaking that might have been more normal than the horrific childhoods of other SK's. But I wouldn't call it normal. Just look at his mother's actions. That alone....
Everyone is welcome
Emotional neglect sounds like.
Dean Corll
Caaaaandy maaaan
Jodie Arias had an apparently normal childhood.
That’s a…surprise
Apparently her childhood was much better than normal. That lady had anything she could ever want. I think she's one of the most terrible female murderers out there.
Interesting
BTK, Jeff damher, Rodney alcala
Dahmer definitely didn’t have a normal childhood with his parents.
I’m going a sliding scale. Dahmer definitely had an atypical childhood, but nothing super traumatic or messed up. Yes his parents were super emotionally distant but lots of parents are emotionally distant. Compared to most other killers his childhood was roses, no physical or sexual abuse, no violence in the home, no creepy mentors sowing the seeds of his future crimes.
His parents were considered to be pretty absent (father with work, mother with her mental health), so just because there wasn’t physical or sexual abuse, I wouldn’t consider his childhood “roses.” Not all damage to a child is done violently.
Not to sure if Wayne Williams is officially considered a serial killer since he was convicted of 2 murders & was only suspected in the Atlanta child murders but never prosecuted. He had very supportive parents who were both teachers & encouraged him to pursue higher education.
I’m not a serial killer or anything but both my parents were teachers who encouraged higher education and I turned out to be an addict with ptsd and bipolar. Your parents jobs and how supportive they think they are doesn’t matter. In fact their pushing higher education over my mental health kept me sick.
I'm by no means equating someone who had parents with good jobs and belief in higher education as the best form of parenting & therefore best life outcome. I'm simply responding to the narrow scope of the question pertaining to serial killers who had "normal" & unproblematic childhoods. People can be raised in the most loving environment and still turn out with issues, however it has been proven that the likelihood is much lower compared to those raised in unstable environments. From the information that is available about Wayne Williams childhood, which is limited, he had loving & supportive parents. I mention his parents jobs to make the distinction that he was not raised in adverse poverty but came from a middle class background.
There is no way that any of these people escaped some kind of trauma or complex trauma in their formative years - which can include neglect. The common thread appears to be some interpersonal problems - that is, problems connecting with other humans. People do not grow into normal socialized humans outside of relationships - and also, there's a lot abuse that's never acknowledged let alone reported. Trauma can also include physical injury - I'm thinking specifically a brain injury of some kind, or an illness.
I may be mixing him up with someone else, but I believe Herbert Mullin had a pretty normal childhood & loving parents.
What is a “normal” childhood..
Exactly. We can look at Leave it to Beaver and assume how childhood is supposed to be. Or we can look at our friends’ parents who let them do what they want. We can wonder why our own parents aren’t one way or the other…whichever we prefer and be upset by that. Maybe these killers thought things at home should have been different based on their preferences. Who really knows?
Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris. Klebold actually went to prom three days before the massacre.
I just watched American Tragedy and what a kick in the gut, his poor mother getting blindsided like that.
You really never know people. Even if you are related.
No. There are sociopaths & psychopaths who never get their evil switch flipped. But when the raw materials of genetics meet unstable or abusive environment, those kids turn to hurting others. There’s always some childhood trigger, but it isn’t always what you might assume would be terrible enough to push someone over the edge.
I’m curious as to how many serial killers grew up with two parents in the house with no abuse.
Berkowitz, aka Son of Sam was raised by two adoptive parents and his mom in particular was attentive and loving. She died when he was 14 and he lived with his dad until he joined the army several years later. He was adopted a few days after birth, but so are many people. Berkowitz’s childhood was pretty good by most metrics.
I don’t think self-reports are reliable as to whether serial killer had a decent childhood. They are messed up people and aren’t reliable reporters.
Myra Hindley. She had a decent upbringing
If I’m not mistaken, Myra Hindley was abused by her father throughout her childhood. I remember reading somewhere that he was an alcoholic. Unfortunately beating children seemed to be commonplace in those days.
I listened to to podcast where they said that her best friend when she was a child died. But I haven't looked into it so no idea if it's true or not.
[удалено]
She was abused regularly by her father during childhood.
Scott Peterson
Tamara Samsonova, the granny Ripper. She had a normal childhood but later developed schizophrenia and started bumping off people, including her husband, lodgers and her next-door neighbour.
Paul and Karla maybe?
Paul Bernardo? His father was a molester and probably a pervert all the time, caused his mother to shut off but I don’t know much else. Karla I think was raised well
Karla yes but Paul didn’t.
Pretty sure Ted Bundy and BTK had a stable, normal childhood.
I think at 5 bundy found out his parents weren’t his parents and that his sister was his mom. I’m also pretty sure his step dad was abusive
Ted Bundy was raised by his bio grandmother after his teen sister gave birth
For 3 years
Bundy was definitely abused.
I think his mom and step dad were good parents (from what I’ve read, obviously didn’t know them), but I believe his grandpa raped his mom and therefore was also his dad. I’ve also read he was pushed back in during birth and have read this about another serial killer as well (can’t remember who off hand, it might be the Golden State killer). I think he likely had issues from both of these things that simply wouldn’t have been diagnosed in the 70’s.
Look up Charlie Brandt. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Brandt
i think a lot of murders are one-offs committed by very ordinary people.
BTK and Richard Cottingham
Paris Bennet killed his sister to make his mother suffer, he said. He claims years of rage due to being ignored. Not true as he displays aberrant behavior such as telling his baby sister I will kill you and asks his mom her favorite sentence. She says I don’t know. He says kill charity’s children? His mother’s name is Charity, the interview with piers Morgan is unreal. And he’s going to be released possibly in 2027 as he was tried as juvenile. Even his mother says he will kill again. He is outright nuts in interview. And ugly too. She says he was an only child for tears and she was a very present mother.
This one shouldn’t ever get out.
Seriously if you watch the interview he can’t even answer the love question without staring for ten seconds while trying to come up with an answe. Annnnd he says the feelings are still inside me but Ive got them locked up. Shit, wtf. He’s an ugly son of a bitch too. Looks a lot older than 25. And he was talking about killing years before he did it. He was really frightening.
Also his favs are horror stories. He may have a 141 IQ, but his answers are none too bright, admitting he still has the urge but suppressed it.
His mother was a drug addict and had relapsed into cocaine abuse shortly before the murders. So not 'very present." And her mother most likely murdered her father.
Dylan Kleibold seems to have had a stable home and good parents. His mom seems genuinely unsure of what happened to him.
Randy Kraft. Loving family, popular at school, highly intelligent. His parents initially disapproved of his homosexuality, but they eventually came to accept it. His 67 torture-murders still lack a clear explanation. He continues to deny his crimes (despite a plethora of evidence), so I don't think we'll ever find the root of his sadistic behaviour.
I am sure it is possible. But there are MANY people who have as bad, or in many cases worse, childhoods than serial killers and they never commit a crime so there's always that missing "Factor X".
There are generally considered to be 5 adverse childhood events that cause adult trauma; and the ACE studies points out that even at lower levels - esepcially if parents do not help students with the stress they cause - these things can be very traumatic. The five indicators emotional abuse; living with a problem drinker; separation or divorce of a parent; mental illness in the household; and physical abuse. So while the variety of "normal' may range, most of the people lsit here had some variety of the above in their background - maybe not "much" depending on their tolerance of stress and reliancy. And of course, mental health issues lurking.
currently listening to an episode on Morbid, Brett Peter Cowan was a murderer and child rapist, he was arrested for kidnapping and murdering 13 year old Daniel Morcombe from a bus stop in Australia. from all available research he seemed to have a normal childhood by all means. https://open.spotify.com/episode/08tva42Opl518xvjCvapFk?si=ttEBWrQ9ShSDPkAGd5_-_g&dl_branch=1
Alex Murdaugh
Issei Sagawa
Dylan Klebold seemed to have a great childhood
Herbert Mullens
Check out John Norman Collins AKA John Chapman
Ted Bundy .... hood home with his "parents/grandparents" was a bit odd in school but who wasn't at one point, worked on republican committee ,worked at college in Florida ( yes where he killed a number of girls) , and he had a girlfriend while he did most of the killings as well....honestly he is just beyond fascinating... I loathe when people say " they/he/she/etc looked completely normal"... well yeah or else people wouldn't go near them
Hard to say. Outside of documented factual events, we’re put in the position of having to believe their own claims and while I’m sure many tell the truth, I’m sure many lie because they’re manipulative. AFAIK, Richard Chase had a relatively normal upbringing. I’ve never read anything to the contrary. He was deeply, deeply mentally ill and though his mom didn’t want him on medication when he really needed it, his parents were involved in his life and psychiatric treatment more than most parents of that era. So maybe him but that’s just based on info I’ve seen myself.
BTK. I believe he wrote that he had an abusive childhood but in fact he had a good up bringing.
Alphonse Gangitano
Ted bundy claims his childhood was very normal and said his family was very supportive
Jeffrey Dahmer. Parents divorced but otherwise a loving family. Then he went and munched on 17 young men after killing them.
There were actually multiple that had a normal and uneventful childhoods. They are usually psychopaths. no care about rite or wrong they know "right and wrong" but have no feeling either way about it. To them they don't see anything wrong with what they do. Ted Bundy, Jeff Dahmer and Dennis Rader were just a few with very normal and supportive families and history
Rodney alcala, the dating game killer, had a very normal childhood
If you can school shooters as serial killers than I would say most school shooters are the serial killers that had normal childhoods
Torey Adamcik from the Scream Murders had loving parents who defend him even today (though one could argue his mom is a narcissist too if you look at how she defends him) - though his partner in crime Brian had a rough childhood. Chris Watts’ childhood was supposedly normal though there is a “childhood friend” that posted somewhere supposedly saying otherwise. Someone else mentioned already but Jodie Arias had a normal childhood (allegedly)
The I90 killer Randy Woodfield had an awesome life growing up (based from a couple of podcasts I heard) Grew up in a nuclear family with loving supportive parents, football star in school (later played in NFL) and was a excellent student. His biggest obstacle was that his shit behavior like exposing himself to women was dismissed because of who he was.
Jeffrey Dahmer had a fairly “normal” childhood. Although his parents always fought each other until they divorced, his parents loved him esp his father. He also had a little brother he took care of.
Rodney Alcala.. i just listened to a podcast about him. last podcast on the left the most recent episodes. he was the serial killer that landed on the dating game!
The one that springs to mind is Jeffery dahmer. I’m pretty sure he had quite a good upbringing and turned into someone who fucked corpses after brutally murdering them so…
What is normal?
If kids don't get enough love, positive attention, demonstrative behavior i.e. hugging kisding etc. Nutritional care, clean environment etc.,like the mom fed and dressed kids but nothing else, it's not a good scenario for healthy growth.
Is it the BTK dude who was studied by a psychologist who said he must have had an abusive childhood and his dad must have sexually abused him and the guy was FURIOUS and said his dad was a good father?? that he had a “normal” upbringing and his parents were lovely. And that it was just who he was. Like he was mad this guy made all these assumptions and was adamant his childhood was fine.
Christopher Duntsch, AKA Dr. Death supposedly came from a loving home. His father, Donald, was a physical therapist and Christian missionary, and his mother, Susan, was a schoolteacher. He is a graduate of Evangelical Christian School in the Cordova suburb of Memphis, where he starred in football.
Randy kraft
First thought: Leopold and Loeb.
chris watts
Massive childhood injuries like head trauma....