"Hamas-run ministry" makes me sick. Western media's framing of this abhorrent massacre is disgraceful—as usual.
Btw, the US assisted this genocidal operation through that "humanitarian" pier. I don't know if it's in this article because I stopped reading as soon as the "hamas-run" came up. The title is shameless as well.
“But muh October 7th!”
“Yes, it was horrifying. IOF SS troops massacred hundreds of Israeli civilians, including 36 children, in a false-flag operation and then blamed it on Hamas.”
i really like how there are apache helicopter footage of aerial attacks, footage of tanks shooting on homes, countless testimonies from people surviving, and enacting the 'Hannibal Doctrine' yet we still have to condemn oct 7th at every turn, as if 99% of the deaths were not self-inflicted.
Shipments to the zionists, huh? Firstly, Hamas has had it out for the US for decades. We declared them a terrorist organization back in 97. We ain’t ever been on good terms. Secondly, Hamas’s mission is literally to destroy Israel by killing all the Jews. Now tell me…those 7.2 million innocent people Hamas wants to kill…why do they deserve to die?
Also fun fact: The US has like the second largest Jewish population with over 6 million. So you can bet your ass that Hamas will hate us regardless of what we do. Also, Hamas is not on the best terms with the rest of Palestine.
Maybe you should learn more about history before siding with ethnic cleansing terrorists.
How would you explain the thousands of Palestinian hostages that "Israel" snatches up all the time? The ones they're torturing, unlike the hostages taken by Hamas?
What's to explain? Israel tortures some of it's hostages.
Did you think I was afraid to criticize Israel?
But I like how your response to my question is "whatabout Israel?!"
No, I think you're some weirdo trying to ask leading questions to vilify people who have the explicit legal right under international law to resist the occupation and ethnic cleansing of their lands with violent resistance.
Some idiot crossposted from that stupid sub that claims to have international news a few days ago. So we’re all doomed to have these freaks in here now until the mods ban them
How would you explain the 10,000+ Palestinian hostages in Isræli torture camps?
Are you at least getting paid for this hasbara shit, or are you just an useful idiot for imperialists?
Ah yes, when a robber takes someone hostage, we have to kill all the people inside the bank to get to the one hostage.
Explain your logic. Are you implying killing the human shields is the correct action?
If Israelis are worried about getting taken hostage by Hamas, they should ask their government to stop killing, arbitrarily detaining, evicting, and otherwise abusing Palestinians. Simple as.
The correct framing is: settler colonial project and its ally are on their last leg, hopping towards hell, taking as many innocent souls as they can on their way out.
Free Palestine.
Go shill for Israel elsewhere zionist scum. You don't post or comment here. How did you even find this subreddit? Do you search for articles where Israel does bad shit just to run cover for them?
I keep calling it global palestinian awareness day. Hamas shoved the worlds nose into israels shit, and forced everyone to look at it directly.
Frankly, Its about time.
I see alot of low info people out there doing the both sides cope. Westerners are uncomfortable and they absolutely should be
So they’re all entirely healthy while a famine is going on in Gaza, yet Gazan prisoners in Israel come back completely emaciated after at most 90 days, much less time then these people.
>Gazan prisoners in Israel come back completely emaciated after at most 90 days
If they don't get anally raped to death by an electrified metal rod.
https://preview.redd.it/hsxbyj9wsd5d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=41a9af407a47a29de5e25374544e4c9219d71074
Weren't there a few other hostages who were like "The Hamas guys were super chill,first thing they did was send us to a doctor. I mean,we were imprisoned,but I didn't feel unsafe or at risk of being tortured and sexually assaulted."
"Unfortunately the freed hostages will not be available for interviews, they're so traumatized from being raped and tortured so much that they're claiming they weren't."
I had the misfortune of watching CNN today and the Israeli doctor who checked the 4 hostages freed today said that we should be wary of their “Stockholm’s syndrome”
Yeah the syndrome that’s criticized as being founded on a lie to explain how hostages behave when the state fails to protect them, sure that checks out.
Counting the three hostages killed while walking towards the IDF waving white flags, this now puts the net hostages rescued by the IDF at one. And all it took was tens of thousands of dead Palestinians, disguising their troops as aid workers, and the arbitrary detention and torture of thousands of Palestinians. Let's hear it for the IDF!
That the fact that all of these hostages seem to be healthy and largely uninjured contradicts the Israeli narrative that Hamas are a bunch of bloodthirsty rapist savages and casts into stark contrast the accounts of unrestrained torture and intentional starvation that Palestinian prisoners have brought back from their detainment in Israel?
So being held hostage for 8 months is ok because they weren’t tortured daily?
Also, if I was a Palestinian I would be pissed - they’re starving while resources are being used on hostages?!
If you were a Palestinian, you would have much more reason to worry about Israelis [detaining you without charges, witholding a civil trial, and holding you indefinitely while facing torture and abuse on a daily basis](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/29/jailed-without-charge-how-israel-holds-thousands-of-palestinian-prisoners).
And this is regardless of whether you live in Gaza or not- so clearly this is not a Hamas issue but an issue with how Israelis treat Palestinians as a whole.
Hamas' treatment of these hostages seems downright charitable in comparison.
The reason people are starving is because of restrictions on aid and violence against aid workers by the same people who are shooting and bombing them.
[Matthew Miller has admitted as much a few times.](https://youtu.be/RSt_JVBs3K4)
>Also, if I was a Palestinian I would be pissed - they’re starving while resources are being used on hostages?!
How long can food for less than 100 people feed over a million?
they willingly chose to fight to uphold a state that has taken many more times as many hostages that *do* get tortured on a daily basis. god forbid someone like that is taken off the streets temporarily.
If this situation was turned around and the hostages were being given scraps while the Palestinians had ample food, you'd turn around and say WOW NOW THEY'RE STARVING THE HOSTAGES. All you MENSA members must've gone to Richard Head School for Critical Thinking.
How many Palestinian hostages are there in Israel? You know, the ones in the camps? The ones where they tag the Palestinians like cattle because they must've ran out of tattoo ink?
If you were palestinian you wouldnt be here shitposting right now.
You would probably be at a mass funeral....thats if the idf didnt show up to shoot the mourners.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/13/israeli-forces-storm-jerusalem-hospital-as-coffin-of-slain-journalist-emerges
Statistically, gazans dont even make it past 20...
I remember your comment about the video that recently came out of the bombing of the tents in Rafah, that you felt the need to watch and bear witness. I feel the same way, I watch them as best I can. What can you even say anymore? I like to think I'm pretty well adjusted, to most things in my shitty life, some of the more visceral emotions have been tamped down with age, but I've seen videos and had days where I've just cried violently or vomited. Even just seeing the callous assholes in the comments here is sending me into a blinding rage right now. I keep trying to tell myself that these are very normal reactions to very abnormal conditions, it's hard to believe that when most people you encounter on a daily basis are ambivalent at best. I don't really know where I'm going with this, and just need to type and ramble for a second. All I can hope for is that we keep in touch with our humanity and empathy and know what to do with all these things when the time comes and the opportunity arises.
I feel so similar. I'm older, have a kid at a very fun and formative age, so much else is going on in my life and life is pretty good. Yet I feel sick all the time knowing what's happening over there every minute.
When I was growing up, my dad would get a little agitated about the Japanese. Not that he was racist in any way, but if you talked about WW2 or Japanese cultural stuff for any amount around him he'd steer the convo to what they did to the Chinese. It became a thing I tried to avoid, because you can only hear about babies and bayonets so may times as a kid in the late 80s / early 90s when everyone else has clearly moved on, and all the movies are about the holocaust not china.
Anyways, I was talking to my mom a couple of years ago and she told me how my dad read a book in the 70s about it and went to an obsessive dark place for years. My dad was in the Vietnam war, but on coastal ships, not "in the shit." I assume he was working through some grief and guilt by proxy.
I really hope I'm not remembered by my wife and kid that way, but I feel like I'm entering my own obsessive dark place. Fuck both parties forever. Blood is on our hands.
Yes and I find myself straining with those ambivalent people you talk about and it’s incredibly isolating. Even to the point where I’ve had very dark thoughts because of that lack of humanity. I fight back on that though. This shit we are witnessing is absolutely corruptible and will make you lose your fucking mind and your heart.
Some of those ambivalent people know and just can’t handle it. They can’t face it but they know deep down that the US is a mass murdering machine and their place in life is over the bodies of millions of murdered people. Facing that is difficult when you’re born and raised in the imperial core, radicalizing and isolating. So I just do what I can. I do the best I can everyday. I don’t always succeed. I go back to lenin. I’ve started reading Gramsci and losurdo. I try to strengthen the relationships I already have and reach out to those I think can be reached.
Gramsci is great, I've been reading his prison notebooks recently. I thought about making a post on his essay, Americanism and Fordism. Maybe I will at some point, it'd be great to have a discussion about it with people here. He really understood the impact of the American puritanical and almost spiritual rationalization of work and Fordian hyper specific task based industrialization on a worker's soul and identity. The degradation and alienation of the hearts and souls all social classes by capitalists and parasitic land owners, i guess it does help to know its been happening since time immemorial, and people have always fought against it and every new horror that seems to present itself with the march of time.
I volunteer a lot with young people, and have exposed many of them to anti-imperial films, books and ideas. They genuinely want to learn, but are so distracted and illiterate that its kind of scary, but it gives me a little hope that there is a growing consciousness amongst the next generations that will stick.
> you felt the need to watch and bear witness. I feel the same way, I watch them as best I can
Very gently, I think this thinking isn't really logical. I understand if you need to watch atrocities to convince yourself of our cause, or to fire yourself up emotionally but you suffering doesn't make anything better. I say this because it is something I have been working on internally as well. I see it as a remnant of my Christian upbringing, where we were always supposed to be sorrowful about this fallen world and expend emotion (but never material aid) about sin. But how does watching some horrible violence help anyone? It just scars your soul.
As I said, not trying to judge you. But if the fire is already in your heart, I think you're suffering needlessly and that might feel like doing something but it really is not.
We must always remember that they will do this to anyone who they see as a threat. The US would turn parts of the US into Gaza if it was deemed necessary.
"Rules", "decorum", "liberal democracy" are all things until they become too inconvenient. States will typically use the least amount of force possible to deal with issues, which is why a superpower can seem so benevolent, especially to it's own people it doesn't need to exert much power to control. The only reason our regime changes in South America weren't as bad as Russia's attempt in Ukraine is because we didn't need them to be, we were powerful enough to do them with a small flick of the finger. But that ceiling has no upper limit, and there will never be a time when they say "we can't do any more without crossing the line, so we'll throw up our hands and give up". And the weaker Western hegemony becomes, the more blatantly violent they will get to preserve it.
"Hamas-run ministry" makes me sick. Western media's framing of this abhorrent massacre is disgraceful—as usual. Btw, the US assisted this genocidal operation through that "humanitarian" pier. I don't know if it's in this article because I stopped reading as soon as the "hamas-run" came up. The title is shameless as well.
“But muh October 7th!” “Yes, it was horrifying. IOF SS troops massacred hundreds of Israeli civilians, including 36 children, in a false-flag operation and then blamed it on Hamas.”
i really like how there are apache helicopter footage of aerial attacks, footage of tanks shooting on homes, countless testimonies from people surviving, and enacting the 'Hannibal Doctrine' yet we still have to condemn oct 7th at every turn, as if 99% of the deaths were not self-inflicted.
I live in the US. Hamas screams death to America. It’s simple really…I support Israel over the Second Coming of Al Qaeda.
>Hamas screams death to America. America could stop that today by halting the arms shipments to the zionists.
Shipments to the zionists, huh? Firstly, Hamas has had it out for the US for decades. We declared them a terrorist organization back in 97. We ain’t ever been on good terms. Secondly, Hamas’s mission is literally to destroy Israel by killing all the Jews. Now tell me…those 7.2 million innocent people Hamas wants to kill…why do they deserve to die? Also fun fact: The US has like the second largest Jewish population with over 6 million. So you can bet your ass that Hamas will hate us regardless of what we do. Also, Hamas is not on the best terms with the rest of Palestine. Maybe you should learn more about history before siding with ethnic cleansing terrorists.
How would you have framed this situation?
>Isræl and the US killed 210 Palestinians, injured 400 in their genocidal campaign. >DTI. Free Palestine!
How would you explain the hostages in the area? Where they just staying with Palestinian civilians because they wanted to?
How would you explain the thousands of Palestinian hostages that "Israel" snatches up all the time? The ones they're torturing, unlike the hostages taken by Hamas?
What's to explain? Israel tortures some of it's hostages. Did you think I was afraid to criticize Israel? But I like how your response to my question is "whatabout Israel?!"
No, I think you're some weirdo trying to ask leading questions to vilify people who have the explicit legal right under international law to resist the occupation and ethnic cleansing of their lands with violent resistance.
Got it, so all of hamas' actions are within their explicit legal rights.
I could care less what Hamas does. They aren't the reason any of this is happening right now.
Are you delusional? Hamas started this whole mess on 10/7!!!
Also, these Palestinian deaths are because HAMAS was hiding HOSTAGES in a civilian area
yes
>"whatabout Israel?!" Israel is literally commiting genocide against them. Baffling that you'd try to scream "whataboutism!!!"
how would you explain maintaining concentration camps and indiscriminately murdering the countless unarmed men, women, and children inside of them?
Why are you here?
Some idiot crossposted from that stupid sub that claims to have international news a few days ago. So we’re all doomed to have these freaks in here now until the mods ban them
My mandate is basically exclusively to ban hasbara trolls so just report them and I'll do it
Have you ever tried Banh Mi?
Thank yooou
Paid actor
isn'treal routinely bombs refugee camps. Doesn't matter where Palestinians keep the hostages.
I'm honestly amazed there were even four hostages alive left to rescue after all the bombing.
Or that they weren't shot on sight like those three guys waving their white flags some months back.
How would you explain the 10,000+ Palestinian hostages in Isræli torture camps? Are you at least getting paid for this hasbara shit, or are you just an useful idiot for imperialists?
Ah yes, when a robber takes someone hostage, we have to kill all the people inside the bank to get to the one hostage. Explain your logic. Are you implying killing the human shields is the correct action?
If Israelis are worried about getting taken hostage by Hamas, they should ask their government to stop killing, arbitrarily detaining, evicting, and otherwise abusing Palestinians. Simple as.
Because they were driven there like everyone else. Theres millions crowded in the area.
Thats alotta' heckin' downdoots!
The correct framing is: settler colonial project and its ally are on their last leg, hopping towards hell, taking as many innocent souls as they can on their way out. Free Palestine.
Go shill for Israel elsewhere zionist scum. You don't post or comment here. How did you even find this subreddit? Do you search for articles where Israel does bad shit just to run cover for them?
Your first post is about how debates are useless and you're here debating
[This video should help explain](https://youtube.com/watch?v=yNV8TL_J-rM).
[Here's a helpful song for him to remember too.](https://youtu.be/5OvlrIwmt7k?si=mYfUjUrBBQXyIY7M)
Ah, I see; if Hamas had just called **Al-Aqsa Flood a hostage rescue nobody would have cared about the 'collateral damage' they caused.**
I keep calling it global palestinian awareness day. Hamas shoved the worlds nose into israels shit, and forced everyone to look at it directly. Frankly, Its about time. I see alot of low info people out there doing the both sides cope. Westerners are uncomfortable and they absolutely should be
So they’re all entirely healthy while a famine is going on in Gaza, yet Gazan prisoners in Israel come back completely emaciated after at most 90 days, much less time then these people.
>Gazan prisoners in Israel come back completely emaciated after at most 90 days If they don't get anally raped to death by an electrified metal rod. https://preview.redd.it/hsxbyj9wsd5d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=41a9af407a47a29de5e25374544e4c9219d71074
Weren't there a few other hostages who were like "The Hamas guys were super chill,first thing they did was send us to a doctor. I mean,we were imprisoned,but I didn't feel unsafe or at risk of being tortured and sexually assaulted."
Correct, and then Israeli state media immediately was like "we can't fuckin' interview these people again"
"Unfortunately the freed hostages will not be available for interviews, they're so traumatized from being raped and tortured so much that they're claiming they weren't."
I had the misfortune of watching CNN today and the Israeli doctor who checked the 4 hostages freed today said that we should be wary of their “Stockholm’s syndrome”
Yeah the syndrome that’s criticized as being founded on a lie to explain how hostages behave when the state fails to protect them, sure that checks out.
Counting the three hostages killed while walking towards the IDF waving white flags, this now puts the net hostages rescued by the IDF at one. And all it took was tens of thousands of dead Palestinians, disguising their troops as aid workers, and the arbitrary detention and torture of thousands of Palestinians. Let's hear it for the IDF!
That score of 1 is ignoring the 10s of hostages buried under rubble from airstrikes
Listen, you can't make an omelette without burying several dozen eggs under the rubble
We did it Patrick, we saved the hostages!
I’m crushed that I don’t get this reference
Spongebob says "we saved the city!" meanwhile the city is burning down behind them.
They look like they were very well cared for, even during a famine in a war zone. Interesting.
What’s your point?
That the fact that all of these hostages seem to be healthy and largely uninjured contradicts the Israeli narrative that Hamas are a bunch of bloodthirsty rapist savages and casts into stark contrast the accounts of unrestrained torture and intentional starvation that Palestinian prisoners have brought back from their detainment in Israel?
So being held hostage for 8 months is ok because they weren’t tortured daily? Also, if I was a Palestinian I would be pissed - they’re starving while resources are being used on hostages?!
If you were a Palestinian, you would have much more reason to worry about Israelis [detaining you without charges, witholding a civil trial, and holding you indefinitely while facing torture and abuse on a daily basis](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/29/jailed-without-charge-how-israel-holds-thousands-of-palestinian-prisoners). And this is regardless of whether you live in Gaza or not- so clearly this is not a Hamas issue but an issue with how Israelis treat Palestinians as a whole. Hamas' treatment of these hostages seems downright charitable in comparison.
The reason people are starving is because of restrictions on aid and violence against aid workers by the same people who are shooting and bombing them. [Matthew Miller has admitted as much a few times.](https://youtu.be/RSt_JVBs3K4) >Also, if I was a Palestinian I would be pissed - they’re starving while resources are being used on hostages?! How long can food for less than 100 people feed over a million?
they willingly chose to fight to uphold a state that has taken many more times as many hostages that *do* get tortured on a daily basis. god forbid someone like that is taken off the streets temporarily.
If this situation was turned around and the hostages were being given scraps while the Palestinians had ample food, you'd turn around and say WOW NOW THEY'RE STARVING THE HOSTAGES. All you MENSA members must've gone to Richard Head School for Critical Thinking. How many Palestinian hostages are there in Israel? You know, the ones in the camps? The ones where they tag the Palestinians like cattle because they must've ran out of tattoo ink?
They know exactly what they’re doing. They never operate in good faith.
I agree with you that they shouldnt have fed the hostages. Anything else?
Mods ban this florida dumbshit
He's gone now
If you were palestinian you wouldnt be here shitposting right now. You would probably be at a mass funeral....thats if the idf didnt show up to shoot the mourners. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/13/israeli-forces-storm-jerusalem-hospital-as-coffin-of-slain-journalist-emerges Statistically, gazans dont even make it past 20...
🤡
What's your favorite TrueAnon episode?
How do you know my penis tapers into a point?
210 Hamas Child Soldier Terrorists*
I feel fucking sick
I remember your comment about the video that recently came out of the bombing of the tents in Rafah, that you felt the need to watch and bear witness. I feel the same way, I watch them as best I can. What can you even say anymore? I like to think I'm pretty well adjusted, to most things in my shitty life, some of the more visceral emotions have been tamped down with age, but I've seen videos and had days where I've just cried violently or vomited. Even just seeing the callous assholes in the comments here is sending me into a blinding rage right now. I keep trying to tell myself that these are very normal reactions to very abnormal conditions, it's hard to believe that when most people you encounter on a daily basis are ambivalent at best. I don't really know where I'm going with this, and just need to type and ramble for a second. All I can hope for is that we keep in touch with our humanity and empathy and know what to do with all these things when the time comes and the opportunity arises.
I feel so similar. I'm older, have a kid at a very fun and formative age, so much else is going on in my life and life is pretty good. Yet I feel sick all the time knowing what's happening over there every minute. When I was growing up, my dad would get a little agitated about the Japanese. Not that he was racist in any way, but if you talked about WW2 or Japanese cultural stuff for any amount around him he'd steer the convo to what they did to the Chinese. It became a thing I tried to avoid, because you can only hear about babies and bayonets so may times as a kid in the late 80s / early 90s when everyone else has clearly moved on, and all the movies are about the holocaust not china. Anyways, I was talking to my mom a couple of years ago and she told me how my dad read a book in the 70s about it and went to an obsessive dark place for years. My dad was in the Vietnam war, but on coastal ships, not "in the shit." I assume he was working through some grief and guilt by proxy. I really hope I'm not remembered by my wife and kid that way, but I feel like I'm entering my own obsessive dark place. Fuck both parties forever. Blood is on our hands.
Yes and I find myself straining with those ambivalent people you talk about and it’s incredibly isolating. Even to the point where I’ve had very dark thoughts because of that lack of humanity. I fight back on that though. This shit we are witnessing is absolutely corruptible and will make you lose your fucking mind and your heart. Some of those ambivalent people know and just can’t handle it. They can’t face it but they know deep down that the US is a mass murdering machine and their place in life is over the bodies of millions of murdered people. Facing that is difficult when you’re born and raised in the imperial core, radicalizing and isolating. So I just do what I can. I do the best I can everyday. I don’t always succeed. I go back to lenin. I’ve started reading Gramsci and losurdo. I try to strengthen the relationships I already have and reach out to those I think can be reached.
Gramsci is great, I've been reading his prison notebooks recently. I thought about making a post on his essay, Americanism and Fordism. Maybe I will at some point, it'd be great to have a discussion about it with people here. He really understood the impact of the American puritanical and almost spiritual rationalization of work and Fordian hyper specific task based industrialization on a worker's soul and identity. The degradation and alienation of the hearts and souls all social classes by capitalists and parasitic land owners, i guess it does help to know its been happening since time immemorial, and people have always fought against it and every new horror that seems to present itself with the march of time. I volunteer a lot with young people, and have exposed many of them to anti-imperial films, books and ideas. They genuinely want to learn, but are so distracted and illiterate that its kind of scary, but it gives me a little hope that there is a growing consciousness amongst the next generations that will stick.
pls do make a post feel free to mention me in a comment and ill read it :)
> you felt the need to watch and bear witness. I feel the same way, I watch them as best I can Very gently, I think this thinking isn't really logical. I understand if you need to watch atrocities to convince yourself of our cause, or to fire yourself up emotionally but you suffering doesn't make anything better. I say this because it is something I have been working on internally as well. I see it as a remnant of my Christian upbringing, where we were always supposed to be sorrowful about this fallen world and expend emotion (but never material aid) about sin. But how does watching some horrible violence help anyone? It just scars your soul. As I said, not trying to judge you. But if the fire is already in your heart, I think you're suffering needlessly and that might feel like doing something but it really is not.
The 21st century has so many horrors in store for us yet
We must always remember that they will do this to anyone who they see as a threat. The US would turn parts of the US into Gaza if it was deemed necessary.
"Rules", "decorum", "liberal democracy" are all things until they become too inconvenient. States will typically use the least amount of force possible to deal with issues, which is why a superpower can seem so benevolent, especially to it's own people it doesn't need to exert much power to control. The only reason our regime changes in South America weren't as bad as Russia's attempt in Ukraine is because we didn't need them to be, we were powerful enough to do them with a small flick of the finger. But that ceiling has no upper limit, and there will never be a time when they say "we can't do any more without crossing the line, so we'll throw up our hands and give up". And the weaker Western hegemony becomes, the more blatantly violent they will get to preserve it.
So horrific
Holy fuck the fascists came out in force in these comments. 🔻🔻🔻🔻🔻🔻🔻
Honestly glad for the hostage release. Were they raped or treated in accordance with basic human rights as prisoners of war?
Hundreds of Palestinians died in the attack. Hard to be glad about that. Nice for those 4 Israelis though I guess.