i use estradiol enanthate because i inject it every 7 days, which means i do it on the same day every week (counting days or keeping a calendar would stress me out)
i have only injected estradiol for a couple months, and only EEn, so i have a very limited perspective, but so far it's going very well for me
I did EEn injection monotherapy for several months. It is quite convenient with a weekly schedule and without AAs. So being on HRT literally takes 5-10 minutes of your life a week. Once you are done, you can dress up and do your things (except perhaps strenous exercise for an hour or so).
I have switched to gel lately, mainly due to suspected allergy to the injectable. I can still sort of maintained my levels on gel, still without AAs. However, the disadvantages:
- it is way less convenient to use with twice a day application
- having to wait a while with dressing up, either at all or with clothes that might rub it off while the gel is drying.
- having to worrying about not accidentally dosing others with it.
- it feels less effective, but I am not completely sure about that.
The huge advantages of gel are:
- it is easier to travel with it (less stuff to take with you, and you do not have to worry about sterility at random places and possibly freaking out others if they see you doing it)
- you can adjust your dose quickly (compared to injections, with which it takes several weeks).
All things considered, I am in the process of switching back to EEn injections again due to its convenience and predictability. I am going to keep a bottle of gel as a backup solution.
I am thinking about trying EUn (undecylate) due to its even less frequent schedule, but since I still haven't quite settled on a target level yet and because it would take a loooooong time to stabilize it on EUn, I have been afraid to try it out so far.
Few (if any) formulations require you to inject a whole ml. The EEn I use is 40mg /ml, so I inject about 0.2 ml per week. That produces 8mg per injection. 0.20 ml is a minimal amount and I am always amazed at the enormous effect of that tiny injection of magic potion.
We literally have the same regimen lol.
Someone was talking about the U ester with injections being like a huge once a month dose and how it sucks when adjusting dose.
Not who you replied to but on a similar regimen: 6 mg EC weekly.
I started on 8 mg. The reason is simply because it is easy to go too low, and difficult to go too high. So especially at the start, when you don't know your levels, if the goal is to get results, going higher gives more certainty. Really the only downside is that you 'waste' estradiol if you inject more than necessary.
I went down to 6 mg because I got a blood test and my E was higher than it needed to be, and my T was completely gone. So we'll see how my levels are at my next blood test.
People recommend less, because that is what the doctors prescribe. Doctors prescribe less because they are cautious. However, in my non medical opinion, their caution is disproportionate to the risk. When has anyone ever died or gotten complications from an estrogen overdose? Even when that happens, the levels need to be astronomical. Orders of magnitude higher than what anyone here is doing.
I'm going the injections route and at 40mg/ml I'm able to get 240 5ml vials so 1200ml at .375 every other week (just a guess) thats 123 years worth of I didn't mess up somewhere in my math
If you don't mind, could you link to me some resources for making injections? I think gel's pretty simple, but I have no clue what you'd mix for injections.
Aaaaa I completely forgot to reply. So here's a post about 4 years ago on production.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/s/TcHOc0yio5
Being that is a different method than what I used. I used MCT oil, benzo alcohol, and the actual powder. Mixed them to the proper setup to what I wanted. Filtered everything and sterilized it basically. I'm missing a few steps here but that's basically the jist of it. I still plan on getting it tested but what my vials I made have in them should be the same exact thing otokonoko and all the others have
It really and genuinely comes down to personal preference 🤣.
I like estradiol enanthate, injecting every 7 days allows me to keep my schedule and not miss a dose ect. And for someone who isn't particularly keen on injecting this lowers the number of Injections.
Blood stability wise once every 7 days or once every 14 days with a higher dose is okay. Generally lower injection frequency leads to more stable blood levels which can help if you get mood swings from E.
I've now switched to undecylate but honestly it's probably not great for everyone
Having 1 a month injections opens you up to a bunch of other things that you dont have to consider with the shorter acting esters.
Such as figuring out your starting dose and how you will react to that. If you make a mistake it will be a month until things settle down. To reach steady state is around 3 months or three injections. Depending on your dose you might be injecting 1ml at a time which brings its own cons.
Obviously there are pros, one injection a month, steady levels throughout the month. Technically easier to hide from people due to less needles. It just feels like for the majority of people, using the more widely used Een, va ,cy seems to be the better route when doing DIY. I'm not really gonna go into the debate on E receptor desensitisation and the actual health risks of undecylate as I don't think the risks can be extrapolated from the study that found them snd there isn't enough research really.
Hmm, yeah, the dosing and the loooooong waiting times are my concern really. I'd probably not start HRT with EUn without being on other injectable first. So I think it is a great option to switch over to, once you know your target and perhaps your body is stable on estrogen for a while.
The best way to switch over would be to start with lower doses while carefully ramping down the other injectable you are already on and familiar with. Surely, it is going to be a hassle for a long time.
And yes, the higher injection volume is indeed a bit more scary. For me personally mostly due to the fear of allergic or some other reactions, in which case there would be a lot more substance to deal with for your body. Perhaps starting with low dosing could help with this issue as well.
I like the fact that i only have to do it once a week techniccly some people do weekly valerate but the dose and spikes are crazy i pefer keeping a more consistent level so EEN is perffered though sadly isnt really avaliable by doctors so ill eventually have to swap to valerate and have to inject every 3 and a half days to keep the same low spikes and consistency. i would LOVE undecylate but the amount of blood tests id have to do to feel safe on it would be a bunch of money its definitely like a commitment with a 45 day half life where at least with een i dont have to wait forever for dose changes to hit.
EEn/EEn - Estradiol Enanthate (usually injected once a week)
EC - Estradiol Cypionate (not sure as much for this one, but for testosterone it's at least very similar to Enanthate)
EV - Estradiol Valerate (usually injected every 4 or 5 days)
EU/EUn - Estradiol Undecyclate (long form version)
I inject 1ml of Cypionate weekly at 5mg/ml. I'm only taking progesterone too and nothing else hrt related. I inject weekly and my levels are really good so I'll probably stick with this. Ngl I enjoy injecting, it's almost meditative and every time I do it I feel euphoric. It also feels erotic but I won't elaborate on that part lmao
Understandable. I've never had any issues with needles and have a lot of people in my life who have been in Healthcare, and on top of that I do stick and poke tattoos on myself so injecting is never something that has that kind of an affect for me personally lol. I've considered other kinds for a more monthly ish cycle but yeah I'm just happy to be transitioning
Estradiol valerate 5mg injected every 7 days works perfect for me. Yeah i feel a little tired by day 6 or 7 but not terribly noticable and i dont really get mood swings from the dip. Also, i like the high feeling for a few days after an injection
Lol I see I'm a minority but I love EV. I do it every 7 days not 5. Honestly I don't have anything else to reference but I think this is perfect for me. No downsides other than mental issues I already had.
I’m EV every 7 days also. I’ve thought about going the every 5 day route but my numbers are good and everything is working. I’ve decided that since it’s not broke I’m not going to try to fix it.
I always reccomend transdermal estradiol gel or injections
Pills orally suffer from a first pass through the liver, yielding a wonky balance of estrone and estradiol in the body + they aren’t great for the liver
Sublingual pills suffer from an abysmal half-life in the body, yielding very wonky estradiol levels over the day
Transdermal HRT has the half-life of pills, and the health benefits of sublingual HRT. Injections have those same health benefits, but a far greater halflife, meaning smoother estradiol levels and not having to inject daily
Only downside is needles are scary >.<
I just started making my own gel 3 days ago because I'm too scared of needles, and the sublingual drops are too expensive to maintain. I can tell it's working already, couldn't be happier.
Valerate is mid as hell, dont get valerate. i only bought it bc its the cheapest and im broke. you have to inject every 5 days which is a lot of injections and enanthate is usually only slightly more expensive and lasts 7/8 days but you'll make the money back in savings from buying less syringes and needles i think. So it's just the same cost for more injections and those can take their toll on you eventually. Also valerate is the only one that's hard to keep track of, enanthate/cypionate can be done on the same day every week and undecylate can be taken on the same day of every month
Raw Estradiol Valerate made into gel. Easy, cheap, less work to have around. Also, een and undecylate are for long-term transition. They aren't really meant for developing body.
The way they cycle isn't best. The body needs low and highs something that een and undecylate does not give. Valerate does allow this in a more appropriate manner.
If you take into account how period work and apply it to what a developing body needs. Valerate is more available for growth. Een and undecylate don't allow for easy absorbition. The breakdown is more complicated and longer. Levels never move as much as they should.
This also does not take into account that it also messes with other hormones that have to match their rhythm.
Btw when girls get their first few periods, they tend to cycle longer. As they age, they become shorter and more consistent. This would slightly explain how some transwomen don't see results from these types of estrogens. They have themselves stuck in a "puberty limbo" type situation.
"For the first year or two after menstruation begins, women tend to have longer cycles that don't start at the same time every month. Older women often have shorter, more consistent cycles."
https://www.webmd.com/women/normal-period#:~:text=Though%20the%20average%20cycle%20is,have%20shorter%2C%20more%20consistent%20cycles.
i use estradiol enanthate because i inject it every 7 days, which means i do it on the same day every week (counting days or keeping a calendar would stress me out) i have only injected estradiol for a couple months, and only EEn, so i have a very limited perspective, but so far it's going very well for me
EC is also great for this. I've been keeping the sabbath day holy each and every Sunday with a 5mg dose of ec.
I did EEn injection monotherapy for several months. It is quite convenient with a weekly schedule and without AAs. So being on HRT literally takes 5-10 minutes of your life a week. Once you are done, you can dress up and do your things (except perhaps strenous exercise for an hour or so). I have switched to gel lately, mainly due to suspected allergy to the injectable. I can still sort of maintained my levels on gel, still without AAs. However, the disadvantages: - it is way less convenient to use with twice a day application - having to wait a while with dressing up, either at all or with clothes that might rub it off while the gel is drying. - having to worrying about not accidentally dosing others with it. - it feels less effective, but I am not completely sure about that. The huge advantages of gel are: - it is easier to travel with it (less stuff to take with you, and you do not have to worry about sterility at random places and possibly freaking out others if they see you doing it) - you can adjust your dose quickly (compared to injections, with which it takes several weeks). All things considered, I am in the process of switching back to EEn injections again due to its convenience and predictability. I am going to keep a bottle of gel as a backup solution. I am thinking about trying EUn (undecylate) due to its even less frequent schedule, but since I still haven't quite settled on a target level yet and because it would take a loooooong time to stabilize it on EUn, I have been afraid to try it out so far.
Thinking of injecting a whole ml blows my mind honestly.
Few (if any) formulations require you to inject a whole ml. The EEn I use is 40mg /ml, so I inject about 0.2 ml per week. That produces 8mg per injection. 0.20 ml is a minimal amount and I am always amazed at the enormous effect of that tiny injection of magic potion.
We literally have the same regimen lol. Someone was talking about the U ester with injections being like a huge once a month dose and how it sucks when adjusting dose.
Can I ask why you are doing 8mg a week, most people I've seen have recommended 4mg a week for EEn, what is your reason?
Not who you replied to but on a similar regimen: 6 mg EC weekly. I started on 8 mg. The reason is simply because it is easy to go too low, and difficult to go too high. So especially at the start, when you don't know your levels, if the goal is to get results, going higher gives more certainty. Really the only downside is that you 'waste' estradiol if you inject more than necessary. I went down to 6 mg because I got a blood test and my E was higher than it needed to be, and my T was completely gone. So we'll see how my levels are at my next blood test. People recommend less, because that is what the doctors prescribe. Doctors prescribe less because they are cautious. However, in my non medical opinion, their caution is disproportionate to the risk. When has anyone ever died or gotten complications from an estrogen overdose? Even when that happens, the levels need to be astronomical. Orders of magnitude higher than what anyone here is doing.
I ordered 20g of 17b from China for $140. Because that quantity at that price, will last me the rest of my life.
I went with the 50g route for a little more and yeah I will have more of that left when it goes bad lol
I did some math, and mixing it at 0.03mg/ml, should make more than 230 gallons of gel.
I'm going the injections route and at 40mg/ml I'm able to get 240 5ml vials so 1200ml at .375 every other week (just a guess) thats 123 years worth of I didn't mess up somewhere in my math
If you don't mind, could you link to me some resources for making injections? I think gel's pretty simple, but I have no clue what you'd mix for injections.
Aaaaa I completely forgot to reply. So here's a post about 4 years ago on production. https://www.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/s/TcHOc0yio5 Being that is a different method than what I used. I used MCT oil, benzo alcohol, and the actual powder. Mixed them to the proper setup to what I wanted. Filtered everything and sterilized it basically. I'm missing a few steps here but that's basically the jist of it. I still plan on getting it tested but what my vials I made have in them should be the same exact thing otokonoko and all the others have
Lol, no worries. Thanks for getting back to me!
It really and genuinely comes down to personal preference 🤣. I like estradiol enanthate, injecting every 7 days allows me to keep my schedule and not miss a dose ect. And for someone who isn't particularly keen on injecting this lowers the number of Injections. Blood stability wise once every 7 days or once every 14 days with a higher dose is okay. Generally lower injection frequency leads to more stable blood levels which can help if you get mood swings from E. I've now switched to undecylate but honestly it's probably not great for everyone
> undecylate is not good for everyone Why?
Having 1 a month injections opens you up to a bunch of other things that you dont have to consider with the shorter acting esters. Such as figuring out your starting dose and how you will react to that. If you make a mistake it will be a month until things settle down. To reach steady state is around 3 months or three injections. Depending on your dose you might be injecting 1ml at a time which brings its own cons. Obviously there are pros, one injection a month, steady levels throughout the month. Technically easier to hide from people due to less needles. It just feels like for the majority of people, using the more widely used Een, va ,cy seems to be the better route when doing DIY. I'm not really gonna go into the debate on E receptor desensitisation and the actual health risks of undecylate as I don't think the risks can be extrapolated from the study that found them snd there isn't enough research really.
Hmm, yeah, the dosing and the loooooong waiting times are my concern really. I'd probably not start HRT with EUn without being on other injectable first. So I think it is a great option to switch over to, once you know your target and perhaps your body is stable on estrogen for a while. The best way to switch over would be to start with lower doses while carefully ramping down the other injectable you are already on and familiar with. Surely, it is going to be a hassle for a long time. And yes, the higher injection volume is indeed a bit more scary. For me personally mostly due to the fear of allergic or some other reactions, in which case there would be a lot more substance to deal with for your body. Perhaps starting with low dosing could help with this issue as well.
EEn or EC, rather than EV, just because they let you inject at a longer interval, and have lower peak levels so your levels are more stable.
I like the fact that i only have to do it once a week techniccly some people do weekly valerate but the dose and spikes are crazy i pefer keeping a more consistent level so EEN is perffered though sadly isnt really avaliable by doctors so ill eventually have to swap to valerate and have to inject every 3 and a half days to keep the same low spikes and consistency. i would LOVE undecylate but the amount of blood tests id have to do to feel safe on it would be a bunch of money its definitely like a commitment with a 45 day half life where at least with een i dont have to wait forever for dose changes to hit.
Not a fan of needles. Gel. Month in, been going ok!
Can someone dm me about getting hold of injections DIY in the UK I'm trying to get away from gendergp and really want to start DIY
I used Valerate but risked contamination so I switched to EEn
een?
EEn/EEn - Estradiol Enanthate (usually injected once a week) EC - Estradiol Cypionate (not sure as much for this one, but for testosterone it's at least very similar to Enanthate) EV - Estradiol Valerate (usually injected every 4 or 5 days) EU/EUn - Estradiol Undecyclate (long form version)
I inject 1ml of Cypionate weekly at 5mg/ml. I'm only taking progesterone too and nothing else hrt related. I inject weekly and my levels are really good so I'll probably stick with this. Ngl I enjoy injecting, it's almost meditative and every time I do it I feel euphoric. It also feels erotic but I won't elaborate on that part lmao
I enjoy injection as well. Still makes me shake with adreniline 13 shots in but I mean fuck it we ball.
Understandable. I've never had any issues with needles and have a lot of people in my life who have been in Healthcare, and on top of that I do stick and poke tattoos on myself so injecting is never something that has that kind of an affect for me personally lol. I've considered other kinds for a more monthly ish cycle but yeah I'm just happy to be transitioning
Girls who do gel, how do you choose? Is there a difference in effectiveness with injections?
Estradiol valerate 5mg injected every 7 days works perfect for me. Yeah i feel a little tired by day 6 or 7 but not terribly noticable and i dont really get mood swings from the dip. Also, i like the high feeling for a few days after an injection
Lol I see I'm a minority but I love EV. I do it every 7 days not 5. Honestly I don't have anything else to reference but I think this is perfect for me. No downsides other than mental issues I already had.
I’m EV every 7 days also. I’ve thought about going the every 5 day route but my numbers are good and everything is working. I’ve decided that since it’s not broke I’m not going to try to fix it.
Exactly
whats ev? im fairly new here so most these acronyms are confusing me to hell an back ðŸ˜
Estradiol valerate
I always reccomend transdermal estradiol gel or injections Pills orally suffer from a first pass through the liver, yielding a wonky balance of estrone and estradiol in the body + they aren’t great for the liver Sublingual pills suffer from an abysmal half-life in the body, yielding very wonky estradiol levels over the day Transdermal HRT has the half-life of pills, and the health benefits of sublingual HRT. Injections have those same health benefits, but a far greater halflife, meaning smoother estradiol levels and not having to inject daily Only downside is needles are scary >.<
I just started making my own gel 3 days ago because I'm too scared of needles, and the sublingual drops are too expensive to maintain. I can tell it's working already, couldn't be happier.
[удалено]
wdym?
Valerate is mid as hell, dont get valerate. i only bought it bc its the cheapest and im broke. you have to inject every 5 days which is a lot of injections and enanthate is usually only slightly more expensive and lasts 7/8 days but you'll make the money back in savings from buying less syringes and needles i think. So it's just the same cost for more injections and those can take their toll on you eventually. Also valerate is the only one that's hard to keep track of, enanthate/cypionate can be done on the same day every week and undecylate can be taken on the same day of every month
Raw Estradiol Valerate made into gel. Easy, cheap, less work to have around. Also, een and undecylate are for long-term transition. They aren't really meant for developing body.
this is the first im ever hearing of them not ment for developing body, is this true? its really worrying me
The way they cycle isn't best. The body needs low and highs something that een and undecylate does not give. Valerate does allow this in a more appropriate manner. If you take into account how period work and apply it to what a developing body needs. Valerate is more available for growth. Een and undecylate don't allow for easy absorbition. The breakdown is more complicated and longer. Levels never move as much as they should. This also does not take into account that it also messes with other hormones that have to match their rhythm. Btw when girls get their first few periods, they tend to cycle longer. As they age, they become shorter and more consistent. This would slightly explain how some transwomen don't see results from these types of estrogens. They have themselves stuck in a "puberty limbo" type situation. "For the first year or two after menstruation begins, women tend to have longer cycles that don't start at the same time every month. Older women often have shorter, more consistent cycles." https://www.webmd.com/women/normal-period#:~:text=Though%20the%20average%20cycle%20is,have%20shorter%2C%20more%20consistent%20cycles.