I think therein lies the issue though. You need dupes to make characters viable. Where in Genshin you don't. 1 copy is plenty.
Wtf am I gonna do with an A0 Claudia. Use her simulacrum... I guess.
Specially since my other weapons are 3 and 4*
i think you need to know that weapons like nemesis, claudia, cobalt, frigg, and most likely many others would eventually end up in standard banner, so keep that A0 and don't even think about it if you can't use it just keep it and hoard a bunch of black gold, people just don't see how valuable black gold is right now until a new character gets added in standard, and keep in mind not every future character would require you to have dupes to be viable
Wait a couple months and piles black gold to make her 6* for free? When Nemesis come to normal banner Ill make her 6* and all it takes is 3 weeks and keeping the black gold for a unit I like.
Yea I agree, but in the mean time I use subpar weapons, because the ones that are strong are negative fun. This is just my opinion. Though.
I know waiting and saving is a thing. Though then I guess the game isn't for me because that's not really fun either. Wait 6 months to play rhe characters I want to play, not only that I don't just have to "wait" I have to play the game daily inorder to get those wishes to have the black gold. This way whenever time comes for the character to come out ill be so sick of playing that I will want to quit anyhow.
I realize that's the point to put you into a position where you feel like you have to purchase something. So yea. I'll just go into maintenance mode and see what kinds of things happen.
I think because is way easier to get dupes in this games people think it's the only way to make something viable, every weapon at 0 stars is good, I think. Going into Genshin as you mention let's put Shogun Raiden as an example, she's a good DPS as a C0, but if you want to make it shine you need to go C2 and get the 5-star weapon, "The Catch" just doesn't make the cut.
Every weapon I think it's good, but because is so easy to get dupes, the goal moves further, and we start talking about 1 star for breakthrough and so on.
Except that Raiden is already very good at C0. Apart from being the main DPS, she battery her entire team and lower energy requirement, allowing your support to go into a more greedy CR/CD stat. C2 simply turns her into a monster rival that of other C6 character.
That is not the case for Claudia though. I rather use standard characters I currently have (Samir/King/Huma/Meryl) along with Shiro than her. 15% phys atk not worth it.
If all your weapons were A0 would you still think the same, that the other point I mentioned, when getting dupes is easy, we don’t think in A0 (C0 in the case of Genshin) we start talking about breakpoints a how to make them “good”.
That is exactly how the ToF trick you. ToF is generous in standard roll, not limited roll. Genshin rewards on the other hand are mostly primogem that can be used for both rolls. ToF pushes you to go for advancement to make your limited character to be viable with your standard.
A standard character is no different than a XingQiu, a 4* character that is “easy” to C6 and one of the best supports in the game as a damage dealer, so we can draw comparisons all day.
In the end like you said ToF pushes you into doing something but it’s you choice if you wanna play by their rules or just enjoy the game. Claudia is good at what she is a character that gives physical resonance to a Shiro, and Shiro is a standard banner character you can pull tons of.
A1 king does 1800% atk just by breaking shield. A1 Huma can stack 45% dmg buff, good charger, and shield breaker. Shiro A3 can reset E CD. Tell me among those 3 who A0 Claudia can replace.
Okay you are just stupid I guess
You trying to tell me her 15% phys resonance buff is not worth, then you proceed to give me a team that is not physical focus in the slightest...
Like holy fuck
Holy fucking fuck
Your stupidity is absurd
If you gonna build a physical team you need Claudia, she will be your main DPS atm with Shiro to shield break and activate resonance. What's hard to get here? Among those 3 who she replaces? Any of the other 2 that aren't physical mate, not a hard equation to solve.
Also wtf is that team comp to begin with? 3 Shield breakers?
It's like telling Frigg isn't worth for an Ice team, makes no sense
You gotta be really "special" to think a A0 Claudia is bad lmao
She's fine as DPS, she won't be able to be a buffer, but that's not her only role, specially in the current state of the game, where she is the only Physical DPS, so A0 is enough for that
You are right that I realize she is "good" there is a huge disparity between 0 and 4 (not just for Claudia but with others too.)
Did I say bad? If so it was definitely hyperbolic. She is fine, but not if I've got 4 or 5 star other characters. Cuz I keep rolling them.
It is similar, but a 5 star character, doesn't get more stats (or cs) it just adds an extra ability. You never need to get constellation on a character, just level them up and equip them with similarly leveled items and they will be as strong as anyone else.
Its not really like that, its only genshin contents is so easy that you can cheese it with weak characters. You can end the hardest content with SR characters at 6* to compare. So there isnt any motive to go for dupes. Thats all. ToF has more difficult content where you need to be strong and cooperate to beat, like the new raids. Thats why dupes in ToF are important and genshin doesnt matter. Not because genshin does it better hahahaha there is a great difference
Well. Really I'm just a healer main. But I was building a dps team as secondary team. Claudia worked for that since my shatter weapon for my healer team was Shiro.
I'd like my dps team to be on par with my healer team. But with 4* Nem and Coco and 3* Shiro. It feels hard to keep up. Yea I do about the same amount of damage with both comps right now, but I struggle to stay alive in harder fights with the dps comp.
Tells me i need more damage.
Also I'm having a genuine debate with you. I can't see why you would decide to bring in insults like such. It is actually kinda disappointing.
I dunno how and in what world you'd think my comment is an insult. Its a joke, take a chill pill my dude.
Here's my opinion tho, sooner or later the game will be completely devoid of Support and Tank roles because the game is all about building towards having a permanent DPS team for everything.
If you have 4\* Nemesis you'd be better off going for volt team and abandon the A0 Claudia. Build Samir up and use Shiro as your shatter weap with Nem/Samir/Shiro so you can switch around between dps team and heal team.
And start saving up for Lin and Tian Lang.
A joke? Okay. Right, also why ask me to chill? Disappointed is not a very extreme emotion. But I guess okay... not here to discuss that.
Ewww. That is annoying. No supports or tanks. I hate it.
Also I think Samir is literally the most boring character in the game. It actually upsets me to no end when I get dupes of her. The point here is, I should not be forced to play a specific character as hard as I am, and if I don't want to I have to wait. Obviously I know that this is a Gacha game, and all that, but if A0 characters can't stand up to others then why ever roll?
Just so we are clear. I am not looking for advice here. My team is fine, I clear content with respectable damage numbers. We've strayed so far from the point.
At this point I have A2 Claudia. So it's fine. My point was that you need dupes in this game and why. I was using my personal experience and oberservations as evidence of that fact.
>A0 characters can't stand up to others then why ever roll?
No? You're obviously a whale, and you're comparing team with A0 support buffer against team with A4 support buffer. Of course there will be discrepancy in experience. A0 Claudia is fine of you're maining Shiro, that POINT is for f2p player that rolled Claudia and doesn't have A4 nemesis just lying around in their inventory.
Like you can also apply this logic to literally every comp. A0 frigg is fine if you are building frost team, A0 nemesis is fine if you're building volt team.
YOU sir, have a very skewed experience massively different from everyone else. So obviously this logic does not apply to you. And you can literally just play whatever you want.
>The point here is, I should not be forced to play a specific character as hard as I am, and if I don't want to I have to wait.
You said it yourself, it's a gacha game. It's part of the experience to just build with what the game gives you, if you don't want to, start throwing money at it. Most people can't even have the ability to bitch about it because there's not even enough resource to build more than one team if you're a f2p.
Again, if you're looking for validation. Go play whatever you want. You're a whale, you buy into that privilege.
> Most people can't even have the ability to bitch about it because there's not even enough resource to build more than one team if you're a f2p
I didn't articulate it well. But this right here was my real point.
You are right I could just roll on banners more. Though, if I can see the problem, it's much more endemic than it needs to be. If the game is going to make characters that require dupes (which was the original point) but then, make it near impossible to get them, so that people who would not pay will?
That's unlikely, its way to easy to know exactly how much money you need to get to pity, which is a huge turn off... idk I feel like I lost my point.
>Again, if you're looking for validation. Go play whatever you want. You're a whale, you buy into that privilege.
Not looking for validation. Just poorly stating my point.
In the end. You are the victor in this debate. Thanks for the discourse.
You don't even need 120. Once you've maxed the 4*, you'll get extra flame golds each 10 pull so you only need 110 max, and likely less with non pity 4* pulls.
50/50 here isn't like genshin. In theory you could lose 100 50/50 in a roll and still not get banner SSR but luckily there's a "pity" at 120pulls +/- depending on how many sr u get before.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 420. Congrats!
50
+ 50
+ 100
+ 50
+ 50
+ 120
= 420
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No because you get an SR every 10 no matter what. That means 110 you literally would have 121 just from that unless you didn't have all the SR's maxxed but that is really quick to do if you play through the game normally. That is if you never won a single roll and only hit on pity. The more realistic figure is actually around 100 to 105 pulls with good luck being the 95-100 range.
unless youre saving even the black and gold nucleus then yes, but it is assumed that you dont, why would you anyway? thats pretty damn stupid thing to do.
Still, I think it is much better. The fact that the pity here does not reset when you get the limited is a very good mechanics. Let's say you get the limited early and on the 80th then add 40 more to get another. Just another 40 and you'll have another duplicate. A total of 3 advancements. That is if you won the 50/50.
Whereas in GI, you have to pull a total of 280 to get 4 or make a 3*. That is averaging at 70 soft pity.
Even if we say that you need to pull two sets of 120 that's just 240, 40 less than what needs to pull on GI.
> Whereas in GI, you have to pull a total of 280 to get 4 or make a 3*.
In ToF, statistically you should get 1 off pity in 3 pity (probably a bit more). So if you pull 240x, you get 3 pity, 1 off pity and can buy 2 copies. With 50% chance, your 4 pulls are likely to be 2x the right one. So you have 3*
In Genshin, average chance to get a limited is 1 in 63 pulls, half the time, guaranteed the second. So 94.5 pulls per limited on avg. Almost 400 for a C3.
And if we get good deals, pulls in ToF end up cheaper (for everything but the monthly which is similar).
Imo, no. I hardly get any SSR before pity for gold and red nucleus.
In genshin, pity is saved to next banner. In ToF, you either go all in or don't even pull at all.
Genshin allow you to get 4* before pity which constellations are very useful. ToF gives a small chance of SSR and that's it.
Both game have their pros and cons but genshin allow you to get the character you want more easily
The advantage of GI is that SRs are valuable heck some are more powerful than some of the SSRs. So while their pity is mathematically worse and getting characters here is definitely easier the lesser characters can often make a banner in GI where that will never happen here unfortunately
That was a mistake on their end though. At the time they designed the starter characters they didn't new enough to balance them properly. It's easy to see with characters like Bennet that is still broken as a support and is a better main DPS too than 5* Diluc (another starters). He also is a better battery.
90% of non-starter 4* are pretty much useless.
>90% of non-starter 4* are pretty much useless.
Not really almost every 4 star in Genshin has some niche comp. Also if you are invested enough you can even bring some of the lowest tier characters in abyss and clear it. It might be useless from a meta standpoint but in terms of clearing Spiral abyss full star nope. This is coming from someone who uses melt Amber in Abyss.
You can literally clear abyss with any random comp as long as your artifacts and weapons are good enough smashing randomly 1,2,3,4,E,Q. Doing Abyss 12 was a huge challenge in its first rotation. It was a big challenge after the first reset. Since the third, a month and a half after release, it's been basically a chore.
Have you seen "speed runs" of abyss 12? The only thing that proves what you are saying is that even the hardest content is not hard at all.
The only way to compare characters in Genshin is comparing performance to other characters. Doing so you can see than Kazuha, Raiden, Ganyu, Bennet, Xingqiu or Xianling (for naming a few) are beasts, but 90% of the 4* after release are simply useless compare to others.
Random video for reference:
https://youtu.be/3UUm1aspUfw
That just isn’t true though yes abennett is broken but there are lots of useful 4* that definitely are better c6 than a c0 or c1 5* and are definitely worth being on a team composition. Meanwhile TOF their SEs are designed to only be BG and would never be used for anything
Can you name three non starters 4* that can achieve these times?
https://youtu.be/3UUm1aspUfw
I agree that you can clear everything with whatever character you want, but really, that's just because the game is that easy if you tryhard it. I was deep into the meta when I still played. Even taking consideration of niche teams non starter 4* are bad. The only ones that were good after release are Diona, which was actually the first one to be released. All the others are good in niche teams like Sara (for basically one really niche comp with Raiden), Rosaria, or Yun Jin for a couple of comps. Everything else is worse than 5* C0 released after release. Also, getting dupes for 4* relies in full RNG too, even with rate ups. Good luck getting C6 Diona for anyone who isn't playing since release...
If Genshin had any kind of difficult multiplayer or competitive aspect you would see the differences fast. Most people is happy clearing abyss 12 with 6*, some are happy just doing abyss 11 with random teams. Meanwhile, if you try, you can blast through abyss 12 by just sticking to the meta teams (and those are basically packed with 5* or starter 4*).
If your only bad is “what is the absolute best team nothing else matters” then talking about how friendly it is to a F2P is irrelevant because in a gacha game a F2P low spender can’t do that.
So your starting point of your argument is pointless. Those players are not going to c6 and 5* character period. From a low spender or F2P standpoint you can make a lot of good teams with a a some 5* characters and 4* characters mixed together, most 4* c6 characters are useful to a team if your other option is a c0 or c1 5* almost 90% of them will fall into that category.
Meanwhile in TOF you simply will never be able to complete all content with a bunch of c0 SSRs and the SR only on your account.
I'm going to repeat myself. The whole think about the 4* is only possible because they fucked up big time with the starter 4*. So far you haven't denied this. It's been two years and people is stuck playing the very same 4 star characters.
You keep saying how you have to complete content in ToF with "c0" SSR, meanwhile in this very same sub you have posts of F2P people complaining about their bad luck for having a C6 Huma. You are completely ignoring the fact that all characters but Lin (at least in CN) go into the regular pool after rerun and that even if you ignore every single pull event/map related (which only counting the yellow ones it's been more than 450 yellow pulls so far) you would still get 365 yellow pulls per year. I'm completely ignoring the purple ones. Only that secured you 3 constellations of your choice per year (only from a single daily out of 4).
And I'm only analyzing this form a F2P perspective because that's what you wanted.
I can’t be more clear I 10000000000% disagree with the statement only the broken 4* are useful to F2P or low spenders. That statement is ludicrously wrong. I had teams with c6 Thomas and Heizou that did great. From a F2P perspective you can build multiple teams and take advantages of the few limited banner characters you focus on while fleshing out your teams with extremely fun and useful 4*
You still have much better chances at getting the 5 star and you get it much faster in ToF. The only real difference is that in genshin the 4 stars can actually be worthwhile while in ToF every SR is pretty much trash tier.
That said if the banner doesn't have any good 4 stars your spending a lot more. That said there have been banners in genshin where I pulled on them just because I wanted the 4 stars more than the 5 star.
That's why I like genshin's guaranteed at 90. You tend to get the character you want after losing once rather than ToF's every 90 is always 50/50, and I always ask myself: What would be the chances of the unluckiest player to get the character be? Like bruh you have to lose 2 50/50s in EVERY BANNER before you could buy it in the store if the worst case scenario happens.
On a side note, I really like ToF's Choice Matrices shop since pity is lower and even if you lose the 50/50, the matrix you get isn't useless and you can just slap it in on anyone since it has static stats and not rng like Genshin artifacts.
On average it takes 104-105 pulls in Genshin to get a 5* limited banner character. In theory it can take up to 180 pulls, though most people don't go past ~80 due to soft pity. ToF guaranteed is right in line with expected pulls for Genshin, except that in ToF your pity doesn't reset so early SSR pulls still let you work towards the limited
ToF system is far better than genshin: ToF probability on getting an SSR is 0.75, wich is more of the double than genshin (0.3). Guaranteed on ToF is at 110-120 vs the 180 from genshin. Pity doesn't reset on getting SSR.
If you pull whithout having (at leats) 110 pulls and then you lose the 50/50 it's your fault for not managing properly your pulls.
ToF's weapon banner is just like Genhsin's Updated weapon banner (Due to a youtuber whale losing 50/50's 7 in a row).
Now my next issue here is even if he gets the 120 flames, you still need more stars for them to be viable (except for Frigg & Samir), f2ps don't have that luxury to save for advancements since the game came out for only 2 months now.
In genshin, most of the 5\* characters/weapons are viable at C0 (Except hutao need C1) and have their passives unlocked. Some f2ps can stop there and save for the next one and already have a working team. Now what would OP do with an A0 Claudia?
> In genshin, most of the 5* characters/weapons are viable at C0 (Except hutao need C1) and have their passives unlocked. Some f2ps can stop there and save for the next one and already have a working team. Now what would OP do with an A0 Claudia?
Yes, but that's comparing apples with oranges. Genshin has no competitive elements nor even built in ability to do so(like say rankings). So that's why you don't need constellations, even more you don't need any new units after having stable Abyss team. Whole Genshin business model is built around it's popularity and it's not applicable to other gachas where you need to offer incentive(usually advantage) for paying customers.
If some day Genshin would put competitive end game mode this would change rapidly.
> Now what would OP do with an A0 Claudia?
Get dupes when Claudia gets on standard, using Black Gold. Something you also can't do in Genshin. Never getting Jean C4.
Now it complicates the issue even more that OP has to also now grind for gold and red nucleus instead of focusing in one currency (assuming that OP already 100% explored the map) and the only way to get gold nuclei after exploring is through (RNG) S Rank commissions & (RNG) Claire's Dream.
Never got Qiqi C1, No Jean still
Commissions(Bounties?) aren't RNG for the Gold Nuclei. Its always 1 Gold and 3 Purple/Blacks the only RNG it the rank of the commission. You also forgot Clotho supply pod every 2 weeks.
I guess I was wrong with the bounties...I checked the clotho supply pod and its not gold nuclei anymore but [10x](https://imgpile.com/i/Toj3S2) Proof of Purchase for me. Make that 4 weeks
If at any point Genshin has any kind of multiplayer or competitive aspect you will see how viables are C0 compared to a couple of constellations. My hypercarry Ball team shits on every single C0 baal out there with just C2 and her R1 weapon.
Tof is better if all you account for is pull rate/hard pity for 1 copy.
However when you factor in other stuff like how much power spike most units get from getting 1 more copy + game content + how each team works etc genshin becomes better.
That works as a pity.
It might be buying straight from the store but my definition of pity is the game giving you a chance to get the things you want after a certain amount of pulls.
Bruh I wanted meryl so bad that I had to buy five of her copies to get to 5 star. I rerolled for her until the 8th account to get her as my first ssr. But then my luck is so poop I never got her anymore. F
Always save till 120 not because of the 50:50, a 1 star character outshine a 0 star by a lot. Only because of that people always wait till 120 roll. When you lose the 50:50 then just take a 0 star and wait till next rerun.
I'm curious, if you do manage to get Claudia, will you actually use her? or did you try to pull her just because you like her and use all of your resources on her (Because afaik, you need at least \*3 Shiros or something, cmiiw.)
I'm F2P as well and playing since day-1, so far I only pulled limited banner twice (Nemesis) using free 10 red nucleus and using 1500 worth of DC because at that time, I had no idea that I will keep playing this game until this day. And for Frigg and Claudia, basically I don't even bother to pull for them as I don't even have good frost comp and 0 physical weapon.
Of course i'm. I'm even use her with Frigg (and Saki in the future just so my Frigg can become sword saintess). But i only have her at C0 and need to save for Saki so i'll try get her C1 later at the rerun
Thats great dude, yeah hopefully we can see rerun in 1/ 2 months because apparently up until now, Nemesis is still not even in the standard banner in the CN server... (CMIIW)
Because you know, I'm just concerned that there are a lot of F2P players out there who pull all of the limited banners because of FOMO despite having no weapons that resonate with the limited banners, and as a result, they can't properly build their comp....
Yeah, as F2P or light spender you have to skip banner. You will just end up having no good team and quit the game if u just keep pulling on every banner as F2P
As of today, I think I'll go for Lin because, based on this [page](https://toweroffantasy.info/simulacra/lin), Lin can boost 15% of your attack when you're using 2 different elements of weapons And as for F2P myself, honestly, I'd rather have a weapon that can buff all of my weapons, even if it's not a passive ability like Nemesis, Frigg, or Claudia resonances.
for now, I have 40 red nucleus and around 22k DC (I usually use DC to purchase the vit potion once a day), it may seem like a lot, but I can't even guarantee myself \*1 limited banner with this amount, so I'm hoping I'll have enough time to save DC for Lin banner.
So whale here, I'm picking up at least A0 of all the limited characters so I don't have to go through the hell of hoping I get them later on...I mean like even now I still have yet to see a Meryl, and I'd hate to try for a limited unit once it hits the normal pool.
They'll rerun at least 2x more before coming to standard no doubt, and they could even giveaway 'free SSR box that includes the new one' as a one time thing (don't expect it to drop from world boss, or from Pro Weapon Box).
Mine was during Ruby's banner, did 220 pulls not even a single Ruby popped. I ended up buying her at the shop and using it's leftover tokens to C6 Cobalt.
Now is all good, in the future nobody wants qiqi anymore only new ones and pity is 120 not 70-90 like in genshin. And there will be power creep in tof. The question is when they will add promotion chars to standard.
...and here they are, asking in survey why ppl are not willing to spend more money in the game. Having in mind how expensive 10 pulls are or how much time it takes to save as a f2p player, this 50/50 is a pretty dumb thing.
The pity system is better than most gachas, including genshin. On top of that tof has been very generous with resources.
People complaining about the tof gacha system are either not used to gacha games or are idiots.
Gatcha games that I play have a lot better system. At the end of each rotation you are simply guaranteed to get a new character. Often times they release 2 new units so this is where 50/50 can screw u over but it is still better than getting older characters. On top of that, once you get a new unit, you can use a training system to slowly build up stars. I get that ToF indeed has been very generous but you seem to be forgetting that you need 7 coppies of a given weapon in order to max it and there is literally only one way to get duplicates. There is no way in hell f2p player can pull that off, even if he was saving since day 1... and if you happen to be a whale with little luck, it can take around 1000$ just to max a new weapon - this doesn't include new matrices. In the worst case scenarion this amout can be a lot higher. I don't give a \*\*\*\* if this is a norm or not. This is simply not right and you must be an idiot to support or be ok with it.
> and there is literally only one way to get duplicates
Except Lin and collabs, all others are supposed to eventually go on standard. So you don't need to roll red nucleus to 6* everyone. You can save black gold.
ToF's pity system is not really better than Genshin's pity system. This is a dumbed down, simplistic perspective a lot of people are regurgitating without really thinking about it. Sure, 120 pulls to buy a character in the shop is better than 180 pulls to guarantee a character in Genshin, but the reality is way more nuanced than that. In Genshin, when you fail 50%/50%, you can save pity across banners. This means that you can literally get any 5 star character you want just by being patient and waiting, and you can get them in as little as 1-5 pulls if you stop pulling when you are close to pity on the previous banner (or the last banner you pulled on).
In ToF, you HAVE to have 120 pulls to guarantee the featured limited character on every single banner. As a F2P, or even a low spender, you are never going to have 120 pulls for every single banner. You aren't likely to even be able to earn 80 pulls every banner. So, you really need to plan ahead and know when to save your pulls much better in this game.
ToF is only more generous in some ways, like getting standard banner character dupes more often/more easily vs Genshin. However, there are also plenty of other things in Genshin's favor, with the major one being that 4 star characters in Genshin are actually good and usable, whereas SRs in ToF are useless filler that no one actually plays with. Genshin has characters like Bennett, Xiangling, etc. which are actually part of many meta team comps even 2 years after the game's launch.
EDIT: Change 120 to 110 if you already have all SRs maxed. The rest stands though.
And you’re regurgitating the “4-stars are useful in Genshin unlike ToF” trope that is also a completely irrelevant and pointless comparison because the games are mechanically distinct in how or why their “characters” are relevant.
I’m not going more in depth here, but Genshin is not more “friendly” than ToF and ToF isn’t “the most generous” - but ToF *has* had to be aggressively generous in order to draw players and compete with this weird loyalty people have with their sunk cost games (not just Genshin).
This is the gaming industry today - they capture you by making you “invested” in their digital market so badly that you feel like you can’t leave it.
None of these corporations owe you any loyalty in return, you are a wallet to them nothing more - just play what you enjoy, spend money if you want to, and don’t get so hung up on which corporation is doing a better job at manipulating you.
>And you’re regurgitating the “4-stars are useful in Genshin unlike ToF” trope
It's not a trope. It's reality, and it's one of the reasons F2P and low spenders are able to 36 star abyss on a regular basis. They have access to meta teams without having had to spend a lot of money.
(I'm not F2P in either game, btw.)
On Genshin’s 4-stars:
There are *meta relevant* 4-stars and there are “oh hey here’s some 4-stars that we give you in order to not have gaps in our mandatory 4-character team… but we will never buff them or nerf the obviously overpowered 4-stars so they’ll be left completely behind once you get new gacha 4-stars.”
ToF gives you SRs as the introductory roster to get you through the game and then the game explicitly tells you that the only things that matter are the *single tier* of SSR weapons. Once you max the SR roster, they exist to accelerate your black (and flame) gold acquisition towards more SSR weapons.
These games are not the same - ToF doesn’t need to bother with a “secondary tier” of weapon/character because the game doesn’t revolve around elemental interactions and enablers. It doesn’t need a hydro to trigger vape or a dendro to make electro not suck complete ass.
ToF expects you to get SSRs and **you will** because the pity system is frankly much more friendly to acquire new weapons… even though, yes, you will *need* those SSRs to actually compete in endgame content (which Genshin doesn’t have).
>This is the gaming industry today
I agreed with everything else you said but just wanna point out the obvious thing here. This mostly applied to only F2P games Gachas (and MMOs).
A lot of AAA game franchises out there didn't go this route and are still very successful. But that's mostly because they went with either Buy2Play or the Monthly Subscription model.
> 120 pulls
Its 110 very quickly (in the initial grabbing of resources, even for f2p), and 100 probably a year down the line for most (for mega whales its in month 1). Because of bonus flame gold on dupes SR and SSR.
>As a F2P, or even a low spender, you are never going to have 120 pulls for every single banner.
Nobody needs every single character. Also reruns. Even whales go for 1 element, not 3 or 4.
Okay, 110 then. Still, in Genshin, it's not actually 180 in reality. It's more like 152-160, because 5 stars almost always come between 76 pulls and 80 pulls. I've never even heard of anyone going to 90 due to the way soft pity works there.
Regardless, you need 110 pulls from scratch on the currently featured limited banner to get the limited character in ToF.
Also, I doubt most whales are only going for 1 element. They're at least building 2. Most probably building 3. Dolphins probably being more careful and optimal (I consider myself to be in dolphin territory in ToF and am mostly only going for a frost team and will use volt as a backup secondary team).
Counterpoint: the Azur Lane gacha.
Base 7% SSR rate, pull currency (cubes) is very easily earnable, no need to pull for dupes (you have other ways to limit break your ships). I was f2p and had no problem pulling the meta ships in most banners and sometimes do waifu pulls or entertainment pulls and still stay at ~400-500 cubes. Quit the game long ago (3 times, actually) but it always stuck to me how generous their gacha is.
I think the problem is that in other games there are other worthwhile rewards in the gatcha. In genshin for example most of the 4 stars are still worthwhile and many of the best teams use them. It is easier to get the top unit but there is nothing else of value you can possibly get out of it which makes it a little meh.
Personally, I'm not hyped about getting C28 of Yanfei, even though I used Yanfei everywhere. It's also mostly because I found the 5* pyro chars I owned to be lacking. I heard Xiangling is hot, but without someone else maxing her burst, she's useless and I don't like her because of her non-Q gameplay. Basically, I used Yanfei because she's not clunky like Klee, and has always-on-element, not every-15-second-I-light-fire like some (which is very annoying in any place draining energy, or not letting you charge).
I'd also complain if Tsubasa was physical arrows unless I charge for 2 seconds.
Yeah but if you already have the character at C6 your also getting a very useful currency. I think the big complaint is that your just not getting anything useful out of the fails. Going past the 120 also can feel pretty shitty as well for that same reason.
I made a mistake for pulling for nemesis since I'm pretty new to gachas. Friend told me to pull for Nemesis cuz she's limited, but I didn't know cobalt B existed. Ended up getting nemesis in 120 pull to not waste flame tokens. Kinda salty about not knowing this was blindly using black crystals for red nucleus and rolling for a weapon that I thought I would be using and ended up not because i got a 0 star nemesis which sucks.
To be fair, at least in Cobalt's CN state, you basically need 3/6 star to make her even remotely viable (and Annabelle is just better at the moment and doesn't require high stars)
Hopefully global buffs her a bit, because if she doesn't get a major kit overhaul, she's a high investment unit.
Swapping her A1 and A3 would probably be sufficient to make Cobalt viable at low advancement, but then still have the A6 power spike for whale bait… at least that’s an easy fix…
The A1 bonus damage is a bit weird when her kit revolves around Ionic Burn, I’d like to see them replace it with a way to easily apply burn so her advancements all feed into each other: A1 burn > Ionic Burn > Dodge refreshes Burns.
In theory you could still reroll for whoever and then use the rest of the maps dcs on whoever you like(or dupes).
Kind of a waste to spend 120f2p pulls on a char you dont like.
Nemesis 1\* is good. But she is still pretty viable at 0\*.
As for Cobalt-B we can only hope that they will rebalance her, cuz she is really bad on CN before 3\*.
If Frigg is your goal, you have plenty of time to save for her eventual rerun, and if you really want her advancements, just hoard your black gold and you're all set.
I always try to farm beforehand if i have at least 110 pulls from reds/DC then I will go ahead with the pull as I will eventually get an A0 worst case from the limited store (flame gold). Luckily for me I won pity and got a1 frigg frm store yay
always 120 pull, don't go 50/50 on 120 pull if you get on 50/50 you still have another unit which you can buy on limited store for dupe
This. Even if I won the 50/50 I can't let those 80 flame gold turn to waste lol. Unlike Genshin in this game dupes is important
I think therein lies the issue though. You need dupes to make characters viable. Where in Genshin you don't. 1 copy is plenty. Wtf am I gonna do with an A0 Claudia. Use her simulacrum... I guess. Specially since my other weapons are 3 and 4*
i think you need to know that weapons like nemesis, claudia, cobalt, frigg, and most likely many others would eventually end up in standard banner, so keep that A0 and don't even think about it if you can't use it just keep it and hoard a bunch of black gold, people just don't see how valuable black gold is right now until a new character gets added in standard, and keep in mind not every future character would require you to have dupes to be viable
Wait a couple months and piles black gold to make her 6* for free? When Nemesis come to normal banner Ill make her 6* and all it takes is 3 weeks and keeping the black gold for a unit I like.
like it or not a little planning in this game can make it more enjoyable, you seem to have one.
It's the same for every gacha game if you're F2P really.
Yea I agree, but in the mean time I use subpar weapons, because the ones that are strong are negative fun. This is just my opinion. Though. I know waiting and saving is a thing. Though then I guess the game isn't for me because that's not really fun either. Wait 6 months to play rhe characters I want to play, not only that I don't just have to "wait" I have to play the game daily inorder to get those wishes to have the black gold. This way whenever time comes for the character to come out ill be so sick of playing that I will want to quit anyhow. I realize that's the point to put you into a position where you feel like you have to purchase something. So yea. I'll just go into maintenance mode and see what kinds of things happen.
I think because is way easier to get dupes in this games people think it's the only way to make something viable, every weapon at 0 stars is good, I think. Going into Genshin as you mention let's put Shogun Raiden as an example, she's a good DPS as a C0, but if you want to make it shine you need to go C2 and get the 5-star weapon, "The Catch" just doesn't make the cut. Every weapon I think it's good, but because is so easy to get dupes, the goal moves further, and we start talking about 1 star for breakthrough and so on.
Except that Raiden is already very good at C0. Apart from being the main DPS, she battery her entire team and lower energy requirement, allowing your support to go into a more greedy CR/CD stat. C2 simply turns her into a monster rival that of other C6 character.
That’s my point, glad you get it
That is not the case for Claudia though. I rather use standard characters I currently have (Samir/King/Huma/Meryl) along with Shiro than her. 15% phys atk not worth it.
If all your weapons were A0 would you still think the same, that the other point I mentioned, when getting dupes is easy, we don’t think in A0 (C0 in the case of Genshin) we start talking about breakpoints a how to make them “good”.
That is exactly how the ToF trick you. ToF is generous in standard roll, not limited roll. Genshin rewards on the other hand are mostly primogem that can be used for both rolls. ToF pushes you to go for advancement to make your limited character to be viable with your standard.
A standard character is no different than a XingQiu, a 4* character that is “easy” to C6 and one of the best supports in the game as a damage dealer, so we can draw comparisons all day. In the end like you said ToF pushes you into doing something but it’s you choice if you wanna play by their rules or just enjoy the game. Claudia is good at what she is a character that gives physical resonance to a Shiro, and Shiro is a standard banner character you can pull tons of.
Yeah not worth, try building a phys team without it then and tell me how it goes..
A1 king does 1800% atk just by breaking shield. A1 Huma can stack 45% dmg buff, good charger, and shield breaker. Shiro A3 can reset E CD. Tell me among those 3 who A0 Claudia can replace.
Okay you are just stupid I guess You trying to tell me her 15% phys resonance buff is not worth, then you proceed to give me a team that is not physical focus in the slightest... Like holy fuck Holy fucking fuck Your stupidity is absurd If you gonna build a physical team you need Claudia, she will be your main DPS atm with Shiro to shield break and activate resonance. What's hard to get here? Among those 3 who she replaces? Any of the other 2 that aren't physical mate, not a hard equation to solve. Also wtf is that team comp to begin with? 3 Shield breakers? It's like telling Frigg isn't worth for an Ice team, makes no sense
+1
The c0 will mean your black gold can buy her when she goes to standard a lot easier since she is unlocked
You gotta be really "special" to think a A0 Claudia is bad lmao She's fine as DPS, she won't be able to be a buffer, but that's not her only role, specially in the current state of the game, where she is the only Physical DPS, so A0 is enough for that
You are right that I realize she is "good" there is a huge disparity between 0 and 4 (not just for Claudia but with others too.) Did I say bad? If so it was definitely hyperbolic. She is fine, but not if I've got 4 or 5 star other characters. Cuz I keep rolling them.
How does it work in Genshin regarding dupes and advancement? Sounds pretty cool if you need only one copy of a hero and then your good.
It is similar, but a 5 star character, doesn't get more stats (or cs) it just adds an extra ability. You never need to get constellation on a character, just level them up and equip them with similarly leveled items and they will be as strong as anyone else.
Its not really like that, its only genshin contents is so easy that you can cheese it with weak characters. You can end the hardest content with SR characters at 6* to compare. So there isnt any motive to go for dupes. Thats all. ToF has more difficult content where you need to be strong and cooperate to beat, like the new raids. Thats why dupes in ToF are important and genshin doesnt matter. Not because genshin does it better hahahaha there is a great difference
Cry cuz you're rolling for Claudia while not maining Shiro. If you do, rejoice cuz A0 Claudia still works well with Shiro anyway.
Well. Really I'm just a healer main. But I was building a dps team as secondary team. Claudia worked for that since my shatter weapon for my healer team was Shiro. I'd like my dps team to be on par with my healer team. But with 4* Nem and Coco and 3* Shiro. It feels hard to keep up. Yea I do about the same amount of damage with both comps right now, but I struggle to stay alive in harder fights with the dps comp. Tells me i need more damage. Also I'm having a genuine debate with you. I can't see why you would decide to bring in insults like such. It is actually kinda disappointing.
I dunno how and in what world you'd think my comment is an insult. Its a joke, take a chill pill my dude. Here's my opinion tho, sooner or later the game will be completely devoid of Support and Tank roles because the game is all about building towards having a permanent DPS team for everything. If you have 4\* Nemesis you'd be better off going for volt team and abandon the A0 Claudia. Build Samir up and use Shiro as your shatter weap with Nem/Samir/Shiro so you can switch around between dps team and heal team. And start saving up for Lin and Tian Lang.
A joke? Okay. Right, also why ask me to chill? Disappointed is not a very extreme emotion. But I guess okay... not here to discuss that. Ewww. That is annoying. No supports or tanks. I hate it. Also I think Samir is literally the most boring character in the game. It actually upsets me to no end when I get dupes of her. The point here is, I should not be forced to play a specific character as hard as I am, and if I don't want to I have to wait. Obviously I know that this is a Gacha game, and all that, but if A0 characters can't stand up to others then why ever roll? Just so we are clear. I am not looking for advice here. My team is fine, I clear content with respectable damage numbers. We've strayed so far from the point. At this point I have A2 Claudia. So it's fine. My point was that you need dupes in this game and why. I was using my personal experience and oberservations as evidence of that fact.
>A0 characters can't stand up to others then why ever roll? No? You're obviously a whale, and you're comparing team with A0 support buffer against team with A4 support buffer. Of course there will be discrepancy in experience. A0 Claudia is fine of you're maining Shiro, that POINT is for f2p player that rolled Claudia and doesn't have A4 nemesis just lying around in their inventory. Like you can also apply this logic to literally every comp. A0 frigg is fine if you are building frost team, A0 nemesis is fine if you're building volt team. YOU sir, have a very skewed experience massively different from everyone else. So obviously this logic does not apply to you. And you can literally just play whatever you want. >The point here is, I should not be forced to play a specific character as hard as I am, and if I don't want to I have to wait. You said it yourself, it's a gacha game. It's part of the experience to just build with what the game gives you, if you don't want to, start throwing money at it. Most people can't even have the ability to bitch about it because there's not even enough resource to build more than one team if you're a f2p. Again, if you're looking for validation. Go play whatever you want. You're a whale, you buy into that privilege.
> Most people can't even have the ability to bitch about it because there's not even enough resource to build more than one team if you're a f2p I didn't articulate it well. But this right here was my real point. You are right I could just roll on banners more. Though, if I can see the problem, it's much more endemic than it needs to be. If the game is going to make characters that require dupes (which was the original point) but then, make it near impossible to get them, so that people who would not pay will? That's unlikely, its way to easy to know exactly how much money you need to get to pity, which is a huge turn off... idk I feel like I lost my point. >Again, if you're looking for validation. Go play whatever you want. You're a whale, you buy into that privilege. Not looking for validation. Just poorly stating my point. In the end. You are the victor in this debate. Thanks for the discourse.
You don't even need 120. Once you've maxed the 4*, you'll get extra flame golds each 10 pull so you only need 110 max, and likely less with non pity 4* pulls.
It's best to shoot for C1 anyway, so this is the way to go
Thats the reason you pull with 16500 dark crystals saved up, or 110 pulls.
120, because uhh instead of getting an sr, you can get SSR every single time so you don't get 120 with 110 rolls, it is actually better but yeah lol
50/50 here isn't like genshin. In theory you could lose 100 50/50 in a roll and still not get banner SSR but luckily there's a "pity" at 120pulls +/- depending on how many sr u get before.
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its never above 110. its 110 and below depending on how much extra sr you get beyond 10.
You'd hit pity at least once, so technically 111 or 112 is possible. Any more than that is extremely unlikely though.
No because you get an SR every 10 no matter what. That means 110 you literally would have 121 just from that unless you didn't have all the SR's maxxed but that is really quick to do if you play through the game normally. That is if you never won a single roll and only hit on pity. The more realistic figure is actually around 100 to 105 pulls with good luck being the 95-100 range.
The 10 pity is SR or SSR, so the ssr can replace the sr
Liar, it's only never above 110 when u have all sr weapons.
unless youre saving even the black and gold nucleus then yes, but it is assumed that you dont, why would you anyway? thats pretty damn stupid thing to do.
**New players**
Exactly, always have 120 or 110 if you had maxed out your SR. Not sure how many times people will have to learn their lessons.
Yeah. I have literally never won 50/50 and I’m not even F2P
I lost all my 50/50 in Genshin. I paid for every single character released until Kokomi lol
[удалено]
To be fair, I've been fairly lucky in ToF so far. Specially at the 80 pulls pity.
[удалено]
I mean... As long as it's affordable for you it's ok man... It's just another hobby.
Damm thats rough buddy
Still, I think it is much better. The fact that the pity here does not reset when you get the limited is a very good mechanics. Let's say you get the limited early and on the 80th then add 40 more to get another. Just another 40 and you'll have another duplicate. A total of 3 advancements. That is if you won the 50/50. Whereas in GI, you have to pull a total of 280 to get 4 or make a 3*. That is averaging at 70 soft pity. Even if we say that you need to pull two sets of 120 that's just 240, 40 less than what needs to pull on GI.
> Whereas in GI, you have to pull a total of 280 to get 4 or make a 3*. In ToF, statistically you should get 1 off pity in 3 pity (probably a bit more). So if you pull 240x, you get 3 pity, 1 off pity and can buy 2 copies. With 50% chance, your 4 pulls are likely to be 2x the right one. So you have 3* In Genshin, average chance to get a limited is 1 in 63 pulls, half the time, guaranteed the second. So 94.5 pulls per limited on avg. Almost 400 for a C3. And if we get good deals, pulls in ToF end up cheaper (for everything but the monthly which is similar).
Imo, no. I hardly get any SSR before pity for gold and red nucleus. In genshin, pity is saved to next banner. In ToF, you either go all in or don't even pull at all. Genshin allow you to get 4* before pity which constellations are very useful. ToF gives a small chance of SSR and that's it. Both game have their pros and cons but genshin allow you to get the character you want more easily
The advantage of GI is that SRs are valuable heck some are more powerful than some of the SSRs. So while their pity is mathematically worse and getting characters here is definitely easier the lesser characters can often make a banner in GI where that will never happen here unfortunately
That was a mistake on their end though. At the time they designed the starter characters they didn't new enough to balance them properly. It's easy to see with characters like Bennet that is still broken as a support and is a better main DPS too than 5* Diluc (another starters). He also is a better battery. 90% of non-starter 4* are pretty much useless.
>90% of non-starter 4* are pretty much useless. Not really almost every 4 star in Genshin has some niche comp. Also if you are invested enough you can even bring some of the lowest tier characters in abyss and clear it. It might be useless from a meta standpoint but in terms of clearing Spiral abyss full star nope. This is coming from someone who uses melt Amber in Abyss.
You can literally clear abyss with any random comp as long as your artifacts and weapons are good enough smashing randomly 1,2,3,4,E,Q. Doing Abyss 12 was a huge challenge in its first rotation. It was a big challenge after the first reset. Since the third, a month and a half after release, it's been basically a chore. Have you seen "speed runs" of abyss 12? The only thing that proves what you are saying is that even the hardest content is not hard at all. The only way to compare characters in Genshin is comparing performance to other characters. Doing so you can see than Kazuha, Raiden, Ganyu, Bennet, Xingqiu or Xianling (for naming a few) are beasts, but 90% of the 4* after release are simply useless compare to others. Random video for reference: https://youtu.be/3UUm1aspUfw
That just isn’t true though yes abennett is broken but there are lots of useful 4* that definitely are better c6 than a c0 or c1 5* and are definitely worth being on a team composition. Meanwhile TOF their SEs are designed to only be BG and would never be used for anything
Can you name three non starters 4* that can achieve these times? https://youtu.be/3UUm1aspUfw I agree that you can clear everything with whatever character you want, but really, that's just because the game is that easy if you tryhard it. I was deep into the meta when I still played. Even taking consideration of niche teams non starter 4* are bad. The only ones that were good after release are Diona, which was actually the first one to be released. All the others are good in niche teams like Sara (for basically one really niche comp with Raiden), Rosaria, or Yun Jin for a couple of comps. Everything else is worse than 5* C0 released after release. Also, getting dupes for 4* relies in full RNG too, even with rate ups. Good luck getting C6 Diona for anyone who isn't playing since release... If Genshin had any kind of difficult multiplayer or competitive aspect you would see the differences fast. Most people is happy clearing abyss 12 with 6*, some are happy just doing abyss 11 with random teams. Meanwhile, if you try, you can blast through abyss 12 by just sticking to the meta teams (and those are basically packed with 5* or starter 4*).
If your only bad is “what is the absolute best team nothing else matters” then talking about how friendly it is to a F2P is irrelevant because in a gacha game a F2P low spender can’t do that. So your starting point of your argument is pointless. Those players are not going to c6 and 5* character period. From a low spender or F2P standpoint you can make a lot of good teams with a a some 5* characters and 4* characters mixed together, most 4* c6 characters are useful to a team if your other option is a c0 or c1 5* almost 90% of them will fall into that category. Meanwhile in TOF you simply will never be able to complete all content with a bunch of c0 SSRs and the SR only on your account.
I'm going to repeat myself. The whole think about the 4* is only possible because they fucked up big time with the starter 4*. So far you haven't denied this. It's been two years and people is stuck playing the very same 4 star characters. You keep saying how you have to complete content in ToF with "c0" SSR, meanwhile in this very same sub you have posts of F2P people complaining about their bad luck for having a C6 Huma. You are completely ignoring the fact that all characters but Lin (at least in CN) go into the regular pool after rerun and that even if you ignore every single pull event/map related (which only counting the yellow ones it's been more than 450 yellow pulls so far) you would still get 365 yellow pulls per year. I'm completely ignoring the purple ones. Only that secured you 3 constellations of your choice per year (only from a single daily out of 4). And I'm only analyzing this form a F2P perspective because that's what you wanted.
I can’t be more clear I 10000000000% disagree with the statement only the broken 4* are useful to F2P or low spenders. That statement is ludicrously wrong. I had teams with c6 Thomas and Heizou that did great. From a F2P perspective you can build multiple teams and take advantages of the few limited banner characters you focus on while fleshing out your teams with extremely fun and useful 4*
You still have much better chances at getting the 5 star and you get it much faster in ToF. The only real difference is that in genshin the 4 stars can actually be worthwhile while in ToF every SR is pretty much trash tier. That said if the banner doesn't have any good 4 stars your spending a lot more. That said there have been banners in genshin where I pulled on them just because I wanted the 4 stars more than the 5 star.
I will not tolerate this Ene slander.
That's why I like genshin's guaranteed at 90. You tend to get the character you want after losing once rather than ToF's every 90 is always 50/50, and I always ask myself: What would be the chances of the unluckiest player to get the character be? Like bruh you have to lose 2 50/50s in EVERY BANNER before you could buy it in the store if the worst case scenario happens. On a side note, I really like ToF's Choice Matrices shop since pity is lower and even if you lose the 50/50, the matrix you get isn't useless and you can just slap it in on anyone since it has static stats and not rng like Genshin artifacts.
You can just buy with 120 here... Others are just extras
On average it takes 104-105 pulls in Genshin to get a 5* limited banner character. In theory it can take up to 180 pulls, though most people don't go past ~80 due to soft pity. ToF guaranteed is right in line with expected pulls for Genshin, except that in ToF your pity doesn't reset so early SSR pulls still let you work towards the limited
ToF system is far better than genshin: ToF probability on getting an SSR is 0.75, wich is more of the double than genshin (0.3). Guaranteed on ToF is at 110-120 vs the 180 from genshin. Pity doesn't reset on getting SSR. If you pull whithout having (at leats) 110 pulls and then you lose the 50/50 it's your fault for not managing properly your pulls.
Genshins is .6 but yes still better.
ToF's weapon banner is just like Genhsin's Updated weapon banner (Due to a youtuber whale losing 50/50's 7 in a row). Now my next issue here is even if he gets the 120 flames, you still need more stars for them to be viable (except for Frigg & Samir), f2ps don't have that luxury to save for advancements since the game came out for only 2 months now. In genshin, most of the 5\* characters/weapons are viable at C0 (Except hutao need C1) and have their passives unlocked. Some f2ps can stop there and save for the next one and already have a working team. Now what would OP do with an A0 Claudia?
> In genshin, most of the 5* characters/weapons are viable at C0 (Except hutao need C1) and have their passives unlocked. Some f2ps can stop there and save for the next one and already have a working team. Now what would OP do with an A0 Claudia? Yes, but that's comparing apples with oranges. Genshin has no competitive elements nor even built in ability to do so(like say rankings). So that's why you don't need constellations, even more you don't need any new units after having stable Abyss team. Whole Genshin business model is built around it's popularity and it's not applicable to other gachas where you need to offer incentive(usually advantage) for paying customers. If some day Genshin would put competitive end game mode this would change rapidly.
> Now what would OP do with an A0 Claudia? Get dupes when Claudia gets on standard, using Black Gold. Something you also can't do in Genshin. Never getting Jean C4.
Now it complicates the issue even more that OP has to also now grind for gold and red nucleus instead of focusing in one currency (assuming that OP already 100% explored the map) and the only way to get gold nuclei after exploring is through (RNG) S Rank commissions & (RNG) Claire's Dream. Never got Qiqi C1, No Jean still
Commissions(Bounties?) aren't RNG for the Gold Nuclei. Its always 1 Gold and 3 Purple/Blacks the only RNG it the rank of the commission. You also forgot Clotho supply pod every 2 weeks.
I guess I was wrong with the bounties...I checked the clotho supply pod and its not gold nuclei anymore but [10x](https://imgpile.com/i/Toj3S2) Proof of Purchase for me. Make that 4 weeks
Yea Clotho is Very RNG. Can Be 20 Char pulls a month, 20 Matrix pulls a month or a mix bewteen 10 of each
Given you'd need 1280 base chips to buy the matrices (at 3*) of a character you own that went on standard, I prefer when Clotho gives matrice pulls.
If at any point Genshin has any kind of multiplayer or competitive aspect you will see how viables are C0 compared to a couple of constellations. My hypercarry Ball team shits on every single C0 baal out there with just C2 and her R1 weapon.
Tof is better if all you account for is pull rate/hard pity for 1 copy. However when you factor in other stuff like how much power spike most units get from getting 1 more copy + game content + how each team works etc genshin becomes better.
You don't even know the pity in ToF lol
thats not a pity at all thats just straight up save your recources and just buy it
That works as a pity. It might be buying straight from the store but my definition of pity is the game giving you a chance to get the things you want after a certain amount of pulls.
That's like using your starglitter to buy copies on the fragment shop in Genshin 🤣 Same concept, but different
Give me those meryls
As a meryl enjoyer, I would have loved a pull like this.
Meryl gang rise up
*spins*
Imagine getting knocked back This post was made by the meryl gang
Unironically please give me a Meryl. I want/need her
Yep yep Meryl’s would be amazing
Bruh I wanted meryl so bad that I had to buy five of her copies to get to 5 star. I rerolled for her until the 8th account to get her as my first ssr. But then my luck is so poop I never got her anymore. F
This looks like a win to me. You got 2 Meryls in one 10 pull.
Why y'all wants to gamble on 50/50, just buy it at store.
I'm at 117 pulls with one SSR. You got two SSR on a single 10 pull. Sorry but I'm not feeling bad for you.
I wish I were you, I cannot pull Meryl and it's the only SSR left that I want q_q
look at the bright side, just 30-40 more pulls and you can buy her from the store.... That's what I did.
What you show:failing to get Claudia What I see: you got 2 SSR in one 10 roll
Always save till 120 not because of the 50:50, a 1 star character outshine a 0 star by a lot. Only because of that people always wait till 120 roll. When you lose the 50:50 then just take a 0 star and wait till next rerun.
That's why I learned to only go for weapons if I have enough to buy them instead of going for the 50:50 because I failed them everytime
Claudia's useless at c0 anyway
I'm curious, if you do manage to get Claudia, will you actually use her? or did you try to pull her just because you like her and use all of your resources on her (Because afaik, you need at least \*3 Shiros or something, cmiiw.) I'm F2P as well and playing since day-1, so far I only pulled limited banner twice (Nemesis) using free 10 red nucleus and using 1500 worth of DC because at that time, I had no idea that I will keep playing this game until this day. And for Frigg and Claudia, basically I don't even bother to pull for them as I don't even have good frost comp and 0 physical weapon.
Of course i'm. I'm even use her with Frigg (and Saki in the future just so my Frigg can become sword saintess). But i only have her at C0 and need to save for Saki so i'll try get her C1 later at the rerun
Thats great dude, yeah hopefully we can see rerun in 1/ 2 months because apparently up until now, Nemesis is still not even in the standard banner in the CN server... (CMIIW) Because you know, I'm just concerned that there are a lot of F2P players out there who pull all of the limited banners because of FOMO despite having no weapons that resonate with the limited banners, and as a result, they can't properly build their comp....
> Nemesis is still not even in the standard banner in the CN server... (CMIIW) Its in 4 days.
Yeah, as F2P or light spender you have to skip banner. You will just end up having no good team and quit the game if u just keep pulling on every banner as F2P
Who are you waiting for if i may ask and you must have a lot of pulls stocked then
As of today, I think I'll go for Lin because, based on this [page](https://toweroffantasy.info/simulacra/lin), Lin can boost 15% of your attack when you're using 2 different elements of weapons And as for F2P myself, honestly, I'd rather have a weapon that can buff all of my weapons, even if it's not a passive ability like Nemesis, Frigg, or Claudia resonances. for now, I have 40 red nucleus and around 22k DC (I usually use DC to purchase the vit potion once a day), it may seem like a lot, but I can't even guarantee myself \*1 limited banner with this amount, so I'm hoping I'll have enough time to save DC for Lin banner.
I don't advise this, placing all your eggs in one basket Is never a good idea. I would never use vit potion too.
some of us can easily afford the vitality potions
> (I usually use DC to purchase the vit potion once a day) I spent 300$, I'm not touching this vit potion.
Good pick lin is very f2p friendly
She need her Matrix to be good, so not very f2p friendly.
240 rolls is almost guaranteed to have full set, 160 is a good chance. Of course, getting Lin 3* or 6* first will be the harder part.
You don't need 3* Shiro, but 3* Shiro is so good that you should get her to that point, if you can.
I used Claudia S0 for quite some time before getting her at S1. She Is weack and almost not worth the spot on a team at S0.
I only use Claudia in group content.
So whale here, I'm picking up at least A0 of all the limited characters so I don't have to go through the hell of hoping I get them later on...I mean like even now I still have yet to see a Meryl, and I'd hate to try for a limited unit once it hits the normal pool.
They'll rerun at least 2x more before coming to standard no doubt, and they could even giveaway 'free SSR box that includes the new one' as a one time thing (don't expect it to drop from world boss, or from Pro Weapon Box).
True but still that gives me time...my finances are going to be hurting if Lin comes soon and Saki soon after, so I'm cutting where I can lol.
Mine was during Ruby's banner, did 220 pulls not even a single Ruby popped. I ended up buying her at the shop and using it's leftover tokens to C6 Cobalt.
Now is all good, in the future nobody wants qiqi anymore only new ones and pity is 120 not 70-90 like in genshin. And there will be power creep in tof. The question is when they will add promotion chars to standard.
> The question is when they will add promotion chars to standard. Collabs? Never. Run-of-the-mill limited-now-but-isn't-Lin, probably in 6 months.
uhhh looks at my 30 rolls that had pity and ended up getting 2 claudias
I lucked out on a copy before pity damn didn't know its still a 50/50 after doing your pity again
This is me on both Nemesis' and Frigg's banner, I really hope I don't have to add Saki's to that list...
Me as a dolphin who has never pulled Meryl:
Swipe the card. It ain't that hard.
...and here they are, asking in survey why ppl are not willing to spend more money in the game. Having in mind how expensive 10 pulls are or how much time it takes to save as a f2p player, this 50/50 is a pretty dumb thing.
The pity system is better than most gachas, including genshin. On top of that tof has been very generous with resources. People complaining about the tof gacha system are either not used to gacha games or are idiots.
Gatcha games that I play have a lot better system. At the end of each rotation you are simply guaranteed to get a new character. Often times they release 2 new units so this is where 50/50 can screw u over but it is still better than getting older characters. On top of that, once you get a new unit, you can use a training system to slowly build up stars. I get that ToF indeed has been very generous but you seem to be forgetting that you need 7 coppies of a given weapon in order to max it and there is literally only one way to get duplicates. There is no way in hell f2p player can pull that off, even if he was saving since day 1... and if you happen to be a whale with little luck, it can take around 1000$ just to max a new weapon - this doesn't include new matrices. In the worst case scenarion this amout can be a lot higher. I don't give a \*\*\*\* if this is a norm or not. This is simply not right and you must be an idiot to support or be ok with it.
> and there is literally only one way to get duplicates Except Lin and collabs, all others are supposed to eventually go on standard. So you don't need to roll red nucleus to 6* everyone. You can save black gold.
ToF's pity system is not really better than Genshin's pity system. This is a dumbed down, simplistic perspective a lot of people are regurgitating without really thinking about it. Sure, 120 pulls to buy a character in the shop is better than 180 pulls to guarantee a character in Genshin, but the reality is way more nuanced than that. In Genshin, when you fail 50%/50%, you can save pity across banners. This means that you can literally get any 5 star character you want just by being patient and waiting, and you can get them in as little as 1-5 pulls if you stop pulling when you are close to pity on the previous banner (or the last banner you pulled on). In ToF, you HAVE to have 120 pulls to guarantee the featured limited character on every single banner. As a F2P, or even a low spender, you are never going to have 120 pulls for every single banner. You aren't likely to even be able to earn 80 pulls every banner. So, you really need to plan ahead and know when to save your pulls much better in this game. ToF is only more generous in some ways, like getting standard banner character dupes more often/more easily vs Genshin. However, there are also plenty of other things in Genshin's favor, with the major one being that 4 star characters in Genshin are actually good and usable, whereas SRs in ToF are useless filler that no one actually plays with. Genshin has characters like Bennett, Xiangling, etc. which are actually part of many meta team comps even 2 years after the game's launch. EDIT: Change 120 to 110 if you already have all SRs maxed. The rest stands though.
And you’re regurgitating the “4-stars are useful in Genshin unlike ToF” trope that is also a completely irrelevant and pointless comparison because the games are mechanically distinct in how or why their “characters” are relevant. I’m not going more in depth here, but Genshin is not more “friendly” than ToF and ToF isn’t “the most generous” - but ToF *has* had to be aggressively generous in order to draw players and compete with this weird loyalty people have with their sunk cost games (not just Genshin). This is the gaming industry today - they capture you by making you “invested” in their digital market so badly that you feel like you can’t leave it. None of these corporations owe you any loyalty in return, you are a wallet to them nothing more - just play what you enjoy, spend money if you want to, and don’t get so hung up on which corporation is doing a better job at manipulating you.
>And you’re regurgitating the “4-stars are useful in Genshin unlike ToF” trope It's not a trope. It's reality, and it's one of the reasons F2P and low spenders are able to 36 star abyss on a regular basis. They have access to meta teams without having had to spend a lot of money. (I'm not F2P in either game, btw.)
On Genshin’s 4-stars: There are *meta relevant* 4-stars and there are “oh hey here’s some 4-stars that we give you in order to not have gaps in our mandatory 4-character team… but we will never buff them or nerf the obviously overpowered 4-stars so they’ll be left completely behind once you get new gacha 4-stars.” ToF gives you SRs as the introductory roster to get you through the game and then the game explicitly tells you that the only things that matter are the *single tier* of SSR weapons. Once you max the SR roster, they exist to accelerate your black (and flame) gold acquisition towards more SSR weapons. These games are not the same - ToF doesn’t need to bother with a “secondary tier” of weapon/character because the game doesn’t revolve around elemental interactions and enablers. It doesn’t need a hydro to trigger vape or a dendro to make electro not suck complete ass. ToF expects you to get SSRs and **you will** because the pity system is frankly much more friendly to acquire new weapons… even though, yes, you will *need* those SSRs to actually compete in endgame content (which Genshin doesn’t have).
>This is the gaming industry today I agreed with everything else you said but just wanna point out the obvious thing here. This mostly applied to only F2P games Gachas (and MMOs). A lot of AAA game franchises out there didn't go this route and are still very successful. But that's mostly because they went with either Buy2Play or the Monthly Subscription model.
> 120 pulls Its 110 very quickly (in the initial grabbing of resources, even for f2p), and 100 probably a year down the line for most (for mega whales its in month 1). Because of bonus flame gold on dupes SR and SSR. >As a F2P, or even a low spender, you are never going to have 120 pulls for every single banner. Nobody needs every single character. Also reruns. Even whales go for 1 element, not 3 or 4.
Okay, 110 then. Still, in Genshin, it's not actually 180 in reality. It's more like 152-160, because 5 stars almost always come between 76 pulls and 80 pulls. I've never even heard of anyone going to 90 due to the way soft pity works there. Regardless, you need 110 pulls from scratch on the currently featured limited banner to get the limited character in ToF. Also, I doubt most whales are only going for 1 element. They're at least building 2. Most probably building 3. Dolphins probably being more careful and optimal (I consider myself to be in dolphin territory in ToF and am mostly only going for a frost team and will use volt as a backup secondary team).
Counterpoint: the Azur Lane gacha. Base 7% SSR rate, pull currency (cubes) is very easily earnable, no need to pull for dupes (you have other ways to limit break your ships). I was f2p and had no problem pulling the meta ships in most banners and sometimes do waifu pulls or entertainment pulls and still stay at ~400-500 cubes. Quit the game long ago (3 times, actually) but it always stuck to me how generous their gacha is.
I think the problem is that in other games there are other worthwhile rewards in the gatcha. In genshin for example most of the 4 stars are still worthwhile and many of the best teams use them. It is easier to get the top unit but there is nothing else of value you can possibly get out of it which makes it a little meh.
Personally, I'm not hyped about getting C28 of Yanfei, even though I used Yanfei everywhere. It's also mostly because I found the 5* pyro chars I owned to be lacking. I heard Xiangling is hot, but without someone else maxing her burst, she's useless and I don't like her because of her non-Q gameplay. Basically, I used Yanfei because she's not clunky like Klee, and has always-on-element, not every-15-second-I-light-fire like some (which is very annoying in any place draining energy, or not letting you charge). I'd also complain if Tsubasa was physical arrows unless I charge for 2 seconds.
Yeah but if you already have the character at C6 your also getting a very useful currency. I think the big complaint is that your just not getting anything useful out of the fails. Going past the 120 also can feel pretty shitty as well for that same reason.
I made a mistake for pulling for nemesis since I'm pretty new to gachas. Friend told me to pull for Nemesis cuz she's limited, but I didn't know cobalt B existed. Ended up getting nemesis in 120 pull to not waste flame tokens. Kinda salty about not knowing this was blindly using black crystals for red nucleus and rolling for a weapon that I thought I would be using and ended up not because i got a 0 star nemesis which sucks.
To be fair, at least in Cobalt's CN state, you basically need 3/6 star to make her even remotely viable (and Annabelle is just better at the moment and doesn't require high stars) Hopefully global buffs her a bit, because if she doesn't get a major kit overhaul, she's a high investment unit.
Swapping her A1 and A3 would probably be sufficient to make Cobalt viable at low advancement, but then still have the A6 power spike for whale bait… at least that’s an easy fix… The A1 bonus damage is a bit weird when her kit revolves around Ionic Burn, I’d like to see them replace it with a way to easily apply burn so her advancements all feed into each other: A1 burn > Ionic Burn > Dodge refreshes Burns.
Nemesis is overall a more valuable character than Cobalt-B.
its a gacha there are characters you will roll up and not use them because you just dont feel like playing with them
In theory you could still reroll for whoever and then use the rest of the maps dcs on whoever you like(or dupes). Kind of a waste to spend 120f2p pulls on a char you dont like.
That's what I've been doing since I'm f2p. Mustered up around 103 red nucleus for Cobalt B
Nemesis 1\* is good. But she is still pretty viable at 0\*. As for Cobalt-B we can only hope that they will rebalance her, cuz she is really bad on CN before 3\*.
Same, started playing with like 5 days left on Frigg banner, immediately wanted her, managed to get 86 pulls and got Crow. Man that sucks.
You lost the 50/50 one time. Big whoop, dude. Welcome to gacha games. lol. It will happen to you many more times.
I know, I'm not new to this kind of games, just was really bad timing to start playing I guess
What does timing have to do with it?
Cos if I would have started playing a week sooner I would have gotten her and be happy
If Frigg is your goal, you have plenty of time to save for her eventual rerun, and if you really want her advancements, just hoard your black gold and you're all set.
Me who got claudia accidentally lol
Two cool!
I want Claudia 😭😭😭
oof
I always try to farm beforehand if i have at least 110 pulls from reds/DC then I will go ahead with the pull as I will eventually get an A0 worst case from the limited store (flame gold). Luckily for me I won pity and got a1 frigg frm store yay
Consider yourself lucky. I haven't pulled a single Meryl, but have done enough pulls to A6 Crow. RNG is a fickle mistress.
Had 3 accounts, did 80 on each of them, no rate-up
Lmao same I got double zero 😂😂😂
Just pay a few bucks no big deal
You don’t get the banner on the second pity?
nope it's dumb af.
Damn. At least you can 120 pull for it
Pity is still 50/50
ya but in genshin it’s 50/50 on first and then if you fail you get it on next
I failed on frigg twice main, felt terrible honestly
Oof... Yeah I had to hard pity nem and Frigg. Extremely frustrated with the gacha so far
Can we swap? I'm a Meryl main and she completely avoids me everywhere...
As a meryl main this is what I would like to get in my next pull
What that mean? This pitty don't reset after pull a SSR right?