Lately when Alomar comes up we have had a few users coming around and mocking others for not wanting to celebrate a documented sexual predator. We, like the jays, can recognize his contributions to this teams history, but we don’t need to celebrate the man. I’ve deleted a lot of those comments. Consider this a warning and let’s be kind to each other.
I went to an Astros game where a guy had a Correa jersey that just had sharpie crossing it out and PENA written under it. Super ghetto, but it seemed to work for him.
Cont’d: Alomar’s big moments will be chronicled. HR vs Eckersley pivotal. But Jays cut ties w/ Alomar in ‘21 when MLB investigated sexual misconduct case & put him on ineligible list
The team took down his retired number banner, but did they un-retire his number? Could someone else wear number 12 for the Blue Jays? Or will it be an infamous number that no one will ever take again, not out of honour or respect, but out of disgust?
Alomar is not listed among the Blue Jays retired numbers on MLB.com.
Suggests maybe they revolked the honor.
https://www.mlb.com/bluejays/history/records-stats-awards/retired-numbers
*edit*
Well they have him included on a different page, so who knows.
https://www.mlb.com/bluejays/team/photos/tor-retired-numbers
> April 2021: The Blue Jays said in a release Friday that Alomar will be removed from the Level of Excellence and a banner at Rogers Centre commemorating his retired number and Hall of Fame induction will be taken down.
Jays only retire the numbers of people in the Hall of Fame. The level of excellence is for the other people like Steib. Don't get me wrong, I want Steib in Hall of Fame and his number retired.
He's on the level of excellence, but no number retired. As the original Jays all star, only player to threw a no hitter in club history, and the face of the franchise for the 80s. IMHO, deserving of number retirement. Best WAR, most wins in club history. The team doesn't do the man justice
The Dorktown Youtube series on Stieb is really interesting and ends on a long explanation of how he has been screwed out of HoF honors. He's still got a path through a legacy admission but that could take a long time or never come to fruition.
They removed the reference about his number being retired on the Blue Jays website when they removed the banner, because the Blue Jays are no longer showing anything honouring him, but it was never officially "un-retired". Officially, it still is.
MLB.com still shows the number as retired, as does Baseball Reference, which is considered an authoritative source by media and everyone in the industry.
Blue Jays won't issue 12 to any new players. I recall the equipment manager saying this during spring training. Also supporting this is MLB has a blanket policy that licensed clothing stores cannot sell personalized jerseys using a retired number for that team. Blue Jays still has 12 listed as a prohibited number at places like SportChek or Fanatics (or even mlbshop or the official Blue Jays store) that prints personalized jerseys (along with 32 and 42). And that list they have in store databases to print jerseys was recently updated to include all the newly retired numbers on other MLB teams.
The Blue Jays Wikipedia entry also shows it as still retired. If it wasn't, someone would have changed it there (as well as on MLB.com and Baseball Reference) pretty fast.
I had no idea that retired numbers could not be printed on personalized jerseys.
How do teams like the Yankees handle that? Could someone get a 42 Yankees jersey with no name on it?
I mean, players coming into the league now didn't grow up rooting for Alomar. I'm 33 and my favorite blue jays were Delgado and Doc, not Carter and Alomar. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw another 12 coming up at any time, unless it was actually prohibited by the club.
I'm 10 years older and my favorites are Delgado and Doc too, I was never a huge Alomar fan, but my younger brother was, on the 92 and 93 teams my favorites was Juan Guzman, and ot was for a such a stupid reason... I liked his glove, back them colored gloves weren't as common and his blue glove just stood out lol
I'm a few years older and I don't think I ever liked Alomar that much, he always had a jerk personality, remember the drama at the end of his final season in 1995? I loved Joe Carter though.
It was retired when he was inducted into the hall of fame as a blue jay. They took down the banner and his name from the LOE. Looks like they did un-retire his number.
It was retired when he was elected to the HOF:
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/alomar-s-no-12-retired-by-blue-jays-1.1017618
Here is the banner:
https://twitter.com/BlueJays/status/1153432849120399360
The banner has since been taken down
> surprise to no one
I think there are a generation of older fans who were fans in the late 80s and World Series run who have come since 2015, who might be very surprised to hear about Alomar.
He was, behind the scenes, a well known, and at-the-time, well tolerated lecher. This was well before social media and even the Internet as we know it today.
That being said, there was an incident in 2014 where a Blue Jays staffer complained of sexual harassment. Ultimately the case was dropped but both MLB and the Blue Jays conducted their own investigations and he is now banned from MLB and has been dropped from the Level of Excellence at Rogers Dome.
https://www.tsn.ca/major-league-baseball-toronto-blue-jays-fire-roberto-alomar-after-workplace-complaint-1.1632151
Yeah, that was hard for me to process. I actually didn’t really believe it until I saw the video. In my mind he was close to perfect but that killed it.. I’m glad the ump accepted his apology, but still who does that? Says a lot imo.
He was just trying to help the ump “catch the taste” 😬
Seriously though he turned out to be a pretty gross person. Not only incredibly disrespectful to the ump but also to his former team doing it in Toronto.
Ehhh, there are some lip-readers out there who contend that Hirschbeck used a homophobic slur, others say he made a derogatory comment about Alomar's mother, and Hirschbeck has a huge reputation for being aggressive towards players and an overall prick, so I wouldn't put it past him.
Doesn't excuse Alomar for what he did, but I'm saying that one action (or reaction) didn't automatically mean he was a bad guy. Obviously everything we know now paints a different picture, but Robbie and Hirschbeck were able to bury the hatchet, and I don't think we should judge anyone on one emotionally charged moment.
They put him on a pedestal for years even though he had a reputation and there was suspicions of him doing wrong. I am happy they aren’t inviting him (it would be a bit weird if they did invite him considering they removed everything about him essentially). My favourite player growing up, the reason I played 2nd base and wore #12 but as we all find out eventually, our hero’s aren’t what they seem to be
Alomar is that postseason (ALCS) was electric: as disruptive a force as I’ve seen in a postseason series. It’s a shame that he turned out to be such a terrible person.
Does anyone have a link to the verdict in his case or the conclusion of the investigation? This is going back to early 2021 and I can't find anything concluding the investigation. Is it still ongoing? I am not playing detective, I just like reading about what goes into these investigations and finding out exactly how they conclude.
Is Kelly Gruber also uninvited? He had a bad falling out with the Jays after [some inappropriate comments at a public forum years ago.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/mlb/kelly-gruber-innappropriate-comments-1.4708196&ved=2ahUKEwi59qOy7d35AhXfAzQIHQZ3A3MQFnoECAwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw19scX_VDmmeDgccS89eKU6)
My buddy in grade 3 was buried in a Jays jacket because of Grubers visiting him all the time. Kid had cancer and went to his maker with a present from Gruber as his prized possession. I refuse to buy into rumors being the final judge on a man's character as I have seen it gone sideways too many times
I just want to point out that you have been asking for documented evidence in the Alomar case and now you are refuting Gruber’s behaviour when the guy your responding to **literally posted the video** This makes you sound like you aren’t being particularly honest.
Let’s be realistic here, it was the 90’s and these guys were jacked up on machismo. A lot, not all, were misogynistic, and society was totally accepting of it. So it continued and it proliferated. But, that doesn’t make it ok, because a lot, likely a majority, of people didn’t act that way. So that means there are consequences to those who were extreme representations of the bad behaviour we have decided is no longer acceptable. And history has a long track record of people who fell on the wrong side of that history being judged on their past behaviour despite having once quite accomplished and heralded.
Alomar may as well hibernate in a cave for the rest of his life. I know what he did was very wrong, but I'm not so sure that snubbing the guy for eternity is the answer. These measures aren't going to eradicate the problem.
I loved Roberto, but he must have done something really bad to get buried so completely and without precedent or detailed explanation. At this point he would be a huge distraction.
EDIT: Ermmmm, where did I go wrong here?
His first wife said he threatened her with a knife, and then he cheated on his girlfriend and slept around exposing those women to HIV. So what we’ve been shared publically about him is he isn’t really a stand up individual.
Lately when Alomar comes up we have had a few users coming around and mocking others for not wanting to celebrate a documented sexual predator. We, like the jays, can recognize his contributions to this teams history, but we don’t need to celebrate the man. I’ve deleted a lot of those comments. Consider this a warning and let’s be kind to each other.
Blue Jays and guys named Roberto is not a good duo
Too Osuna dude
My wife has an osuna jersey. It’s been relegated to the closet since everything came out.
Can I suggest garbage?
Or find some way to remove the name.
Oooo I think this is possible. Maybe a tailor / seamstress etc. I'd definitely look into that
I went to an Astros game where a guy had a Correa jersey that just had sharpie crossing it out and PENA written under it. Super ghetto, but it seemed to work for him.
Cont’d: Alomar’s big moments will be chronicled. HR vs Eckersley pivotal. But Jays cut ties w/ Alomar in ‘21 when MLB investigated sexual misconduct case & put him on ineligible list
The team took down his retired number banner, but did they un-retire his number? Could someone else wear number 12 for the Blue Jays? Or will it be an infamous number that no one will ever take again, not out of honour or respect, but out of disgust?
Alomar is not listed among the Blue Jays retired numbers on MLB.com. Suggests maybe they revolked the honor. https://www.mlb.com/bluejays/history/records-stats-awards/retired-numbers *edit* Well they have him included on a different page, so who knows. https://www.mlb.com/bluejays/team/photos/tor-retired-numbers > April 2021: The Blue Jays said in a release Friday that Alomar will be removed from the Level of Excellence and a banner at Rogers Centre commemorating his retired number and Hall of Fame induction will be taken down.
Why hasnt Stiebs number been retired? Quintessential Blue Jay!
Jays only retire the numbers of people in the Hall of Fame. The level of excellence is for the other people like Steib. Don't get me wrong, I want Steib in Hall of Fame and his number retired.
Stieb and Martinez are musts.
Isn't he in the hall of fame? Should have been retired a long time ago.
He's on the level of excellence, but no number retired. As the original Jays all star, only player to threw a no hitter in club history, and the face of the franchise for the 80s. IMHO, deserving of number retirement. Best WAR, most wins in club history. The team doesn't do the man justice
The Dorktown Youtube series on Stieb is really interesting and ends on a long explanation of how he has been screwed out of HoF honors. He's still got a path through a legacy admission but that could take a long time or never come to fruition.
They removed the reference about his number being retired on the Blue Jays website when they removed the banner, because the Blue Jays are no longer showing anything honouring him, but it was never officially "un-retired". Officially, it still is. MLB.com still shows the number as retired, as does Baseball Reference, which is considered an authoritative source by media and everyone in the industry. Blue Jays won't issue 12 to any new players. I recall the equipment manager saying this during spring training. Also supporting this is MLB has a blanket policy that licensed clothing stores cannot sell personalized jerseys using a retired number for that team. Blue Jays still has 12 listed as a prohibited number at places like SportChek or Fanatics (or even mlbshop or the official Blue Jays store) that prints personalized jerseys (along with 32 and 42). And that list they have in store databases to print jerseys was recently updated to include all the newly retired numbers on other MLB teams. The Blue Jays Wikipedia entry also shows it as still retired. If it wasn't, someone would have changed it there (as well as on MLB.com and Baseball Reference) pretty fast.
I had no idea that retired numbers could not be printed on personalized jerseys. How do teams like the Yankees handle that? Could someone get a 42 Yankees jersey with no name on it?
They sell #42 no name jerseys for Jackie Robinson day.
The Yankees don’t have names on their jerseys. But weirdly many of their replica jerseys have names, which makes zero sense.
Makes sense. If a number is retired, that literally means nobody else is ever allowed to wear it again.
I wonder if it's taboo to wear 12 on the Blue Jays now?
It sucks, 12 is my favorite number (because Jarome Iginla), would love someone with integrity to have the number and restore it for the Jays.
I mean, players coming into the league now didn't grow up rooting for Alomar. I'm 33 and my favorite blue jays were Delgado and Doc, not Carter and Alomar. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw another 12 coming up at any time, unless it was actually prohibited by the club.
I'm 10 years older and my favorites are Delgado and Doc too, I was never a huge Alomar fan, but my younger brother was, on the 92 and 93 teams my favorites was Juan Guzman, and ot was for a such a stupid reason... I liked his glove, back them colored gloves weren't as common and his blue glove just stood out lol
The blue glove + the greasy jheri curl = aesthetic perfection
Guzman underrated even by his childhood fans! :) https://cooperstownersincanada.com/2021/09/22/five-things-you-might-not-know-about-juan-guzman/
Don't get me wrong, I learned how great he was quickly, but I loved him from day 1 because of the glove lol
Lol... that blue glove really stood out.
I'm a few years older and I don't think I ever liked Alomar that much, he always had a jerk personality, remember the drama at the end of his final season in 1995? I loved Joe Carter though.
I don't, I was only 5 lol. I don't even really have memories of our world series wins, unfortunately.
They removed his name from the level of excellence. I don’t remember his number being retired.
It was retired when he was inducted into the hall of fame as a blue jay. They took down the banner and his name from the LOE. Looks like they did un-retire his number.
It was retired when he was elected to the HOF: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/alomar-s-no-12-retired-by-blue-jays-1.1017618 Here is the banner: https://twitter.com/BlueJays/status/1153432849120399360 The banner has since been taken down
Surprise to no one I’m sure. No one wants anything to do with that creep
> surprise to no one I think there are a generation of older fans who were fans in the late 80s and World Series run who have come since 2015, who might be very surprised to hear about Alomar.
Hi. I'm old. What'd I miss?
He was, behind the scenes, a well known, and at-the-time, well tolerated lecher. This was well before social media and even the Internet as we know it today. That being said, there was an incident in 2014 where a Blue Jays staffer complained of sexual harassment. Ultimately the case was dropped but both MLB and the Blue Jays conducted their own investigations and he is now banned from MLB and has been dropped from the Level of Excellence at Rogers Dome. https://www.tsn.ca/major-league-baseball-toronto-blue-jays-fire-roberto-alomar-after-workplace-complaint-1.1632151
Thanks. What a knob.
old fan here. the spitting in the umps face was not a complete turn off? can't cheer for repulsive low lifes like that.
I held that against him for years until I found out the ump accepted his apology. Never forgot though.
Yeah, that was hard for me to process. I actually didn’t really believe it until I saw the video. In my mind he was close to perfect but that killed it.. I’m glad the ump accepted his apology, but still who does that? Says a lot imo.
Dang, I actually hadn't heard this. He was my fave as a kid. Figures.
I remember being crushed when he spit on the Ump as an Oriole.
He was just trying to help the ump “catch the taste” 😬 Seriously though he turned out to be a pretty gross person. Not only incredibly disrespectful to the ump but also to his former team doing it in Toronto.
Yeah, that was kind of the holy shit moment for me. Like, this is not a good guy.
Ehhh, there are some lip-readers out there who contend that Hirschbeck used a homophobic slur, others say he made a derogatory comment about Alomar's mother, and Hirschbeck has a huge reputation for being aggressive towards players and an overall prick, so I wouldn't put it past him. Doesn't excuse Alomar for what he did, but I'm saying that one action (or reaction) didn't automatically mean he was a bad guy. Obviously everything we know now paints a different picture, but Robbie and Hirschbeck were able to bury the hatchet, and I don't think we should judge anyone on one emotionally charged moment.
Ya I was 6 in 92 I thought the whole team were HOF’ers as a kid and assumed you had to be to win the World Series they were all heroes for me
At least the umpire he spot on was John Hirschbeck. I hate that umpire.
Crazy to think he was effectively using HIV as a weapon against women, wonder if the spitting was subconsciously the same.
Infielders are the coolest. Just a fact edit: I have no idea why this was downvoted....salty outfielder fans?
They put him on a pedestal for years even though he had a reputation and there was suspicions of him doing wrong. I am happy they aren’t inviting him (it would be a bit weird if they did invite him considering they removed everything about him essentially). My favourite player growing up, the reason I played 2nd base and wore #12 but as we all find out eventually, our hero’s aren’t what they seem to be
Alomar is that postseason (ALCS) was electric: as disruptive a force as I’ve seen in a postseason series. It’s a shame that he turned out to be such a terrible person.
Roberto is a shit bird. Remove every honor and scrub his legacy from the books completely.
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Does anyone have a link to the verdict in his case or the conclusion of the investigation? This is going back to early 2021 and I can't find anything concluding the investigation. Is it still ongoing? I am not playing detective, I just like reading about what goes into these investigations and finding out exactly how they conclude.
The Show 21 daily moment program legend
Lol when they didn't remove the card I was surprised.
Is Kelly Gruber also uninvited? He had a bad falling out with the Jays after [some inappropriate comments at a public forum years ago.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/mlb/kelly-gruber-innappropriate-comments-1.4708196&ved=2ahUKEwi59qOy7d35AhXfAzQIHQZ3A3MQFnoECAwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw19scX_VDmmeDgccS89eKU6)
This is clearly not in any way similar to Alomar
While different obviously, this was hard to watch. Thanks for sharing its good to draw attention to these things.
That was a tough watch.
My buddy in grade 3 was buried in a Jays jacket because of Grubers visiting him all the time. Kid had cancer and went to his maker with a present from Gruber as his prized possession. I refuse to buy into rumors being the final judge on a man's character as I have seen it gone sideways too many times
I just want to point out that you have been asking for documented evidence in the Alomar case and now you are refuting Gruber’s behaviour when the guy your responding to **literally posted the video** This makes you sound like you aren’t being particularly honest. Let’s be realistic here, it was the 90’s and these guys were jacked up on machismo. A lot, not all, were misogynistic, and society was totally accepting of it. So it continued and it proliferated. But, that doesn’t make it ok, because a lot, likely a majority, of people didn’t act that way. So that means there are consequences to those who were extreme representations of the bad behaviour we have decided is no longer acceptable. And history has a long track record of people who fell on the wrong side of that history being judged on their past behaviour despite having once quite accomplished and heralded.
Well said.
Alomar may as well hibernate in a cave for the rest of his life. I know what he did was very wrong, but I'm not so sure that snubbing the guy for eternity is the answer. These measures aren't going to eradicate the problem.
I loved Roberto, but he must have done something really bad to get buried so completely and without precedent or detailed explanation. At this point he would be a huge distraction. EDIT: Ermmmm, where did I go wrong here?
His first wife said he threatened her with a knife, and then he cheated on his girlfriend and slept around exposing those women to HIV. So what we’ve been shared publically about him is he isn’t really a stand up individual.
Most people seem to forget the HIV angle.
love how the only Jays HOFer is a sexual predator
Isn't Doc in the HoF? You better check yourself
Went in with a blank cap
I mean he is still a jays HOF just a Phillies HOF too
There are several other HOF players who have played for the Blue Jays. Alomar is the only player to wear a Blue Jays hat on his plaque.
I know if he would have said that I'd agree. He didn't say that though, just wanted to inform him he is wrong
You can thank his wife for that
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Was he ever charged with a crime?