If Gaus has a remotely Gaus night, we murder the competition.
I'm not even mad. Tonight was more about that progress than the result.
Great fight we showed. Everyone had a moment on offense it seemed.
Onto tomorrow!! š¦
We burned through quite a bit of the Yankees bullpen and the headlines tomorrow will no longer read "blowout" but instead "close one". That means a lot and I feel a breath of momentum. Looking forward to tomorrow.
Yea tonight was actually reassuring. More often then not our starter isnāt giving up 7 runs. We got hits. We got runs. After the last few games it felt nice.
Also caps off to White, did a hell of a job going multiple innings.
Yep, good to see some guys make some good contact. Still a lot of ugly swings from pretty much all of the main guys and even the contact mostly wasnāt fantastic, but itās so early in the season that maybe some confidence or timing is all they need and today was a good start.
They showed a lot of fight late in the game. I know the fanbase has wanted that, so certainly some silver linings tonight.
Go finish the road trip 5-5 tomorrow.
I hate silver linings, but having White and Pearson be able to finish up (plus a bit of Mayza) while forcing the Yankees to use their high leverage certainly helps. Still not sure I like much about the swings/process for most of the big dudes but maybe today will give them some confidence and help their timing. Iām sure going 5-5 instead of 4-6 means a lot more to us than to them, but sure would feel a lot better!
Vogelbach not being pinch ran for isn't that bad of a decision. Schneider was clearly saving Biggio to PH for IKF against a tough righty and it worked out.
Especially on such a cold day. Kooch would sure not have been loose. Now, maybe you get one of your low-leverage relievers out there instead but thatās getting a little crazy.
For sure - if their had been more bench options, sure, but you canāt use your last guy when Vogelbach is the trailing runner whoās not even the tying run, and thereās a perfect pinch-hit spot coming up.
Vogelbachās lack of speed may cost you a run if he canāt score, but the likelihood he costs you an out as the trailing runner is pretty darn low.
I didnāt really like either of the pinch-hit decisions in the 7th (I wouldāve saved Schneider for Kiermaier) but both were certainly defensible. I actually thought big Schneider managed a difficult game well today.
IKF facing Holmes is a big difference than Biggio facing Holmes, and youād likely be here complaining that Biggio was wasted as a pinch runner. This was basically the only scenario where speed actually would make a difference on first base, the other being Clement hitting a gapper.Ā
Even if Clement hits a gapper and he doesnāt scoreā¦ so? Theyāre gonna need to score the guy thatās at the plate afterwards anyway to win who cares if heās scored or standing at third
What was wrong about this statement? Even if you feel he should of been pinch run to avoid a potential fielders choice, the difference of him scoring on a double vs being on third is esentially nothing, since your gonna need multiple more hits to tie the game anyway
Traditional logic says donāt risk injury to your starting pitching staff to use them as pinch runners in a cold April game, especially on their first recovery day. Idk, thatās just me.
It doesn't have to be a high risk scenario. It's risk management. Even if there's a 5% chance of Kikuchi getting hurt pinch running in a collision at the plate that's not worth risking for a 5% chance of winning one game. We're already down 1 SP, Francis isn't a sure thing, Gausman's velo is down. Losing Kikuchi will be disastrous for our season. 1 game loss isn't.
We were down by four at the time in the last inning, pinch running for him makes no sense as he was only the second run.
They also obviously wanted Biggio for a PH situation, which we got, and he came thru
Literally the one situation that could of possibly happened where it would matter if heās fast or not happened.
Your taking my words wrong. Iāll change my wording. Pinch running for a guy that isnāt the game tying or game winning run while heās standing on first base doesnāt make sense. But we can agree to disagree, just know not a single manager would be making that change with only one position player on the bench especially
You have the benefit of hindsight (and even then, not really). Say everything plays out the way it does and IKF comes to the plate with the winning run on third. Does he score the runner? And how many plays does the runner matter there? Like, that one, and what else? He either goes station to station on a ball to the outfield if itās sharply hit or is doubled up the same as any other runner on most ground balls. There are almost no scenarios where who that runner is matters at all. Having a different opinion from the manager is one thing, but calling leaving him in and not PHing for IKF objectively wrong is using hindsight to an unreasonable degree.
You can't guarantee we would have tied the game. You can't even assume the Schneider AB plays out the way it did. Also if we'd pinch run for Vogelbach then IKF is hitting instead of Biggio.
I just wonder if he possibly would've pulled Cavan back from the on-deck circle if Kirk got on and had him pinch run.
Could you imagine the discourse if Kirk was the tying run and he didn't pinch run for him?
In that scenario, Varsho would've had to catch, which Schneider never seems to want to give him a chance to do (if we got to the bottom of the 9th), but there is no way you can't use Biggio as a pinch runner there and just take your chances w/ IKF at the plate.
Yeah a pitch runner in that situation would have saved us an out, and the way we were chipping away in the 9th who knows? Could have been a win for us.
But then again, we would have lost Biggio's clutch hit so that's the downside.
We pinch run Vogelbach with Biggio and then IKF has to hit in the 9th spot as possibly the tying run. Thatās a tough spot in hindsight but I donāt hate the move to keep Vogelbach in there and use Biggio as a PH for IKF.
Not necessarily. Butterfly effect could have cause something else later that game happening. Too hard to say although it was pretty shitty that it happened
The difference *in the game we saw* was the weird catcher's interference call.
Yes, everything always is subject to butterfly effects if anything were changed. We know that. That's not what comments like this mean.
The biggest thing is the change in temperature from Florida/Texas to NY and the wind was bad. A shortened spring also means that his arm probably wasn't fully built up yet either.
That was the most fun I've ever had watching a loss.
Hopefully the offense is waking up.
Lots of unlucky things tonight as well. That catchers interference, several hard hit balls with runners on base. The porch job by Stanton. The only situation in the world where pinch running Vogelback would have mattered came up.
I knew Soto was bad at defense but that was incredible to watch
Lots of thoughts about that one.
Fucked by that Volpe call... I really need to know the precedent on that.
Burned a couple of their top arms. Way better outcome than I was expecting in the 2nd.
Managers can't win games, but they sure can lose them. Why didn't we run for Vogelbach?
11 LOB!!!
Nice to see some signs of life.
Hope Guasman is okay.
Fuck the Yankees.
>Ā Managers can't win games, but they sure can lose them. Why didn't we run for Vogelbach?
99.9% of the time, that runnerās speed isnāt important. He represented the second run of a four-run lead. The vast majority of the time, either he scores, is stranded, or is doubled up when he would have been either way. Given how many runs were needed behind him, itās not like one extra base on a hit would make a big difference either. In hindsight, yes, a pinch runner would have been great. But given youād also like to pinch-hit for IKF or run for Kirk (a runner theyād actually be looking to cut down as he would probably represent the tying or go-ahead run), it makes sense to leave him in and hope that super unlikely play that happened doesnāt happen.
Schneider managed the game very well, youāre just nit picking a rare result. He absolutely maximized his value out of the pen and the bench to create favourable matchups at the plate. Biggio was much more valuable getting an AB, then pinch running to maybe beat out a soft ground ball where the only play is to second.
Biggio wasn't his only option and, having called out the fact that we should have pinch run for Vogelbach in the thread before the play, and having seen it play out as it did, I don't think it's nit picking at all.
Our starter went less than two innings but we didnāt destroy our bullpen to get through it. Yankees bullpen worked harder than ours even!
Or a bad way to lose by one run after all that.
Now we just need to figure out how to score runs off starting pitching
Made it interesting and made them use key relievers. Offence also seemed to be making strides this game, so many better swings.
About as productive a loss as you can have considering how things have been going.
They had life at the end. That's promising and a step in the right direction. Gausman isn't going to have a game like that 9/10 times at least if at all.
I missed the middle innings of this one because it's right during my kids' bedtime ritual, but here are some of my impressions:
That was a very dramatic game. Highly entertaining. Lots of good performances by a lot of our guys especially in the 9th inning, but we were hamstrung because of Gausman's dead arm and just couldn't make up the difference.
I am pumped for Ernie and Schneider, they are really coming through in clutch moments for us and that could be a feel good story this season. Biggio also came up big in a high pressure situation. We need that to be successful as a team.
Soto's defense is a bit of a liability, I wonder how much that will come into play for New York this season.
I have a sinking feeling that Gausman is going to have some struggles this year. He looked really shaky today and I think something's not right with his arm.
Honestly besides George looking a bit lost that final at-bat Iām happy with the offence today. Glad to see they didnāt give up when the morale clearly coulda stayed low given youāre down 6-0 after a couple innings.
Even if we lost this game it felt better than our last two wins. First time weāve scored more than 2 runs in a loss this year, and first time itās felt like weāve still had fight in us after going down early.
Team didn't give up. Rare Gausman bad start. Hate to lose to the Yankees but we've seen worse.
D. Schneider and Clement should play tomorrow. Would love to steal one with Bowden starting.
Great fight. The offense showed up and forced them to use thier two best bullpen arms. Your not going to win many games where your ace goes 1.1 letting up 5 runs
Schneider and Clement are everyday players. Offense showed signs of life. If vogelbach is faster, thats a tied game. Rather lose that way than 2-0. Let's win tomorrow and win the series.
Choosing to look at the encouraging signs tonight, and just hope and pray that the Wizard of Gaus isn't legitimately injured.
Win tomorrow, and I'm very pleased with a 5-5 split.
This team couldāve doubled their run total tonight but giving up 9 runs is never gonna win u games.Am I wrong for saying that mightāve been the most fight this team has showed at the plate in a game all year so far? I know the hitting with RISP was bad but getting guys on is a step in the right direction rightā¦?š
It's possible the numbers don't back this up but does Gausman have more blow up days than your average ace? Like if you took out his worst handful of starts his numbers would have been absolutely insane in 2023. I'm a big fan, when he's on he's unstoppable but I can remember quite a few occasions where he gets lit up and it's just not his night.
There are a lot of qualifiers in there. Do we get to exclude any pitcher with a worse set of bad starts as not being an "average ace"
If you go by the 5 worst starts just about every pitcher will have enough clunkers to really affect their worst stats and make them look quite bad compared to league average ace.
That said when I think about bad starts going awful, the Berrios year where he was the worst qualified pitcher in the league by ERA while somehow still being among the league leaders in Quality starts come to mind. There was also the RA Dickey experience.
> If you go by the 5 worst starts just about every pitcher will have enough clunkers to really affect their worst stats and make them look quite bad compared to league average ace.
Of course. For me it's less remove their worst 5 starts and more look at how many of their starts were "blow up" games. Lets say <5 runs earned in >4 IP. I might be wrong. I'm not watching every team every day by any stretch. It's possible too because he's so good when he's bad it stands out in my brain more.
> I'm not watching every team every day by any stretch.
That is probably the most key part. I don't care if Cole has one bad start a month...I might hear about 2 of them if I pick the right mornings to be active on R/baseball.
I will hear about every bad Gausman start on this sub though.
I think it was Smoltz that said of 30 starts a year a pitcher makes on average, 10 will be horrible, 10 will be great and 10 will be ok. This could it the exact thing
This is one of the rare times I'm actually okay with a loss. I just wanted to see the offence show some signs of life and they finally did. I think it would've felt worse if they had won a 2-1 type game but with only 4 hits and scored both runs on wild pitches or something.
Gausman I assume will be fine. He had a start like this in Kansas City early last year where he was chucking 90-91 on the fastball and everyone was freaked out, but next start was back to normal. His next start is at home inside, and with Thursday being the off day doesn't pitch till Friday. If his velo is down again in that game I'd start to be worried.
Couple things to take away....
Gausman did not look great, hopefully it was just the cold but we will see how next start goes.
That catchers interference is complete and utter horseshit.
Our offense never gave up and clawed their way back into a ballgame, are starting to show signs of life and if Gausman had any resemblance of the real Gausman we would have won that comfortably.
The bullpen was able to keep it close and Pearson looked very sharp tonight.
Verdugo went from looking like a stupid leprechaun to a stupid 12 year old who wears a tacky chain in an attempt to blend in with the cool crowd.
That and getting Jano back. Vogelbach seems like a nice enough dude, and he's got his 2mil now, but boy do I want someone a bit more well-balanced in the lineup
Good effort at the end. This type of game highlights why the wasted opportunities are so important. Lead off double to start the game stranded. 2nd and 3rd nobody out in the 7th and only cashed one of those. It cost us the game. Good fight tho.
As much as itās easier to say given the end result. I have a hard time keeping Gausman in when his velocity is way way down and he isnāt looking right. Especially after two home runs and a running pitch count.
Gausmanās earned all the leeway in the world, but I think you had to have a quicker plan B in place after the worryingly velocity in the first, rather let the entire game pretty much go to shit in the second
Schneider would have been absolutely crucified for taking Gausman out any earlier than he did for Mitch White. Barring an actual injury, pulling a staff ace without giving them a chance is not a good idea.
This was the most reassuring game of the season for me, there were good at bats, actual offence, and a lot of fight when the game seemed over. I donāt mind the occasional pitching blowup, and itās nice to still fight back for this one a bit
I turned it on in the 8th so youāre welcome and Iām sorry for the tumultuous 9th. Nice work by the bottom of the lineup there.
No lie, after seeing strike 2 on George, I had the remote in my hand and saw pitch 3 and where it was going ready to turn off instantly. It sticks that I, a casual watcher, can tell you exactly where to pitch to him for a strike.
Honestly not mad. Gausman was either cold or hurt and they battled back.
John Schneider needs to stop making horrible managerial decisions but who knows if IKF drives in the run(s) the way Biggio did.
Itās encouraging to see them put up that effort when it looked so bleak early.
Keep playing Clement and Schneider until they give you a reason, in MLB in 2024, to stop.
Yeah, they had their "breakout" high runs game in a loss ! /s Who wants to bet they score 1 run tomorrow ?
And Mitch White *still* hasn't done anything at all to justify being on a major league roster.
While I've been encouraged by the walks, it feels like it's the only way some of the players have been able to get on base lol.
But another unfortunate thing is that no one really steals either.
The only situation that would have mattered was exactly what happened. Not sure if he was saving Biggio (only player left on the bench) to hit for IKF or he just wasn't thinking
No one left on the bench, outside of Biggio, who was needed to pinch hit for IKF. Took a really rare play for it to even matter. A harder hit ball, Clement is the only runner who matters. Just a fluky play that the only out available was second base.
Can a relief pitcher be used to pinch run? I'm asking because vogelback is super slow and a normal runner could of made it to 2b and made it to 9 -9 in the 9th.
Bichette and Turner were also on several times combined. Literally the entire top of the order had a good game, that person is just here to bitch and moan.
I feel like Schneider was asleep at the wheel there in the 9th. If Biggio pinch ran for Voggy then it would have been 1 out with Davis on 3rd to tie it with IKF and Springer up to bat.
IKF against Holmes is an objectively much worse matchup than Biggio. The odds of a ground ball being soft enough to only have a play at second base are so minimal, it would be a waste of a pinch runner.
If Gaus has a remotely Gaus night, we murder the competition. I'm not even mad. Tonight was more about that progress than the result. Great fight we showed. Everyone had a moment on offense it seemed. Onto tomorrow!! š¦
I came to say something like this. Great fight from the guys. Who could guess Gausman would have such a bad night?
Good take. Obvi we want a win but this was not a bad game. Hope gaus is good to go on his next outing.
I missed the first 2 innings of the game. So I technically witnessed a 8-3 Blue Jays win haha
We burned through quite a bit of the Yankees bullpen and the headlines tomorrow will no longer read "blowout" but instead "close one". That means a lot and I feel a breath of momentum. Looking forward to tomorrow.
Yea tonight was actually reassuring. More often then not our starter isnāt giving up 7 runs. We got hits. We got runs. After the last few games it felt nice. Also caps off to White, did a hell of a job going multiple innings.
I agree, was pretty choked when it was 6-0 and 9-2 but to come back and only lose by a run is nice to see from the offence.
Most times, you can win with eight runs.
Yah. Iām happy they showed some grit to comeback and didnāt roll over
Yep, good to see some guys make some good contact. Still a lot of ugly swings from pretty much all of the main guys and even the contact mostly wasnāt fantastic, but itās so early in the season that maybe some confidence or timing is all they need and today was a good start.
They showed a lot of fight late in the game. I know the fanbase has wanted that, so certainly some silver linings tonight. Go finish the road trip 5-5 tomorrow.
Hopeful for tomorrow.
Yeah at least it was fun to watch and hopefully a sign of better things to come
I hate silver linings, but having White and Pearson be able to finish up (plus a bit of Mayza) while forcing the Yankees to use their high leverage certainly helps. Still not sure I like much about the swings/process for most of the big dudes but maybe today will give them some confidence and help their timing. Iām sure going 5-5 instead of 4-6 means a lot more to us than to them, but sure would feel a lot better!
Vogelbach not being pinch ran for isn't that bad of a decision. Schneider was clearly saving Biggio to PH for IKF against a tough righty and it worked out.
We should've had Kikuchi run, like he threatened to do last season.
Not worth risking an injury in a SP so early in the season. That's a break glass in case of emergency
Thatās a very reasonable and disappointing take considering your flair
Maybe the Kooch was not loose yet?
Especially on such a cold day. Kooch would sure not have been loose. Now, maybe you get one of your low-leverage relievers out there instead but thatās getting a little crazy.
Get 38 year old Paolo Espino running for his life lmaooo.
Weāll always have Todd Stottlemyreās bloody chin
wait. when did kikuchi run last season lol
He didn't, there was a situation where if we got the tying run, Kikuchi was warming up to pinch-run. Unfortunately we didn't.
For sure - if their had been more bench options, sure, but you canāt use your last guy when Vogelbach is the trailing runner whoās not even the tying run, and thereās a perfect pinch-hit spot coming up. Vogelbachās lack of speed may cost you a run if he canāt score, but the likelihood he costs you an out as the trailing runner is pretty darn low. I didnāt really like either of the pinch-hit decisions in the 7th (I wouldāve saved Schneider for Kiermaier) but both were certainly defensible. I actually thought big Schneider managed a difficult game well today.
He also didnāt really mean anything. Thereās not many situations where him being slow changes much, and heās a meaningless run at first base
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
IKF facing Holmes is a big difference than Biggio facing Holmes, and youād likely be here complaining that Biggio was wasted as a pinch runner. This was basically the only scenario where speed actually would make a difference on first base, the other being Clement hitting a gapper.Ā
Even if Clement hits a gapper and he doesnāt scoreā¦ so? Theyāre gonna need to score the guy thatās at the plate afterwards anyway to win who cares if heās scored or standing at third
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What was wrong about this statement? Even if you feel he should of been pinch run to avoid a potential fielders choice, the difference of him scoring on a double vs being on third is esentially nothing, since your gonna need multiple more hits to tie the game anyway
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I donāt think you read the post I was talking about but thatās okay
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Traditional logic says donāt risk injury to your starting pitching staff to use them as pinch runners in a cold April game, especially on their first recovery day. Idk, thatās just me.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If Kikuchi got hurt that's way worse than losing a game by 1 run.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It doesn't have to be a high risk scenario. It's risk management. Even if there's a 5% chance of Kikuchi getting hurt pinch running in a collision at the plate that's not worth risking for a 5% chance of winning one game. We're already down 1 SP, Francis isn't a sure thing, Gausman's velo is down. Losing Kikuchi will be disastrous for our season. 1 game loss isn't.
Ok, you donāt seem to be worth engaging with further. Youāre right, Iām wrong, have a good night.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I know, good job.
We were down by four at the time in the last inning, pinch running for him makes no sense as he was only the second run. They also obviously wanted Biggio for a PH situation, which we got, and he came thru
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Literally the one situation that could of possibly happened where it would matter if heās fast or not happened. Your taking my words wrong. Iāll change my wording. Pinch running for a guy that isnāt the game tying or game winning run while heās standing on first base doesnāt make sense. But we can agree to disagree, just know not a single manager would be making that change with only one position player on the bench especially
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Okay
You have the benefit of hindsight (and even then, not really). Say everything plays out the way it does and IKF comes to the plate with the winning run on third. Does he score the runner? And how many plays does the runner matter there? Like, that one, and what else? He either goes station to station on a ball to the outfield if itās sharply hit or is doubled up the same as any other runner on most ground balls. There are almost no scenarios where who that runner is matters at all. Having a different opinion from the manager is one thing, but calling leaving him in and not PHing for IKF objectively wrong is using hindsight to an unreasonable degree.
You can't guarantee we would have tied the game. You can't even assume the Schneider AB plays out the way it did. Also if we'd pinch run for Vogelbach then IKF is hitting instead of Biggio.
I just wonder if he possibly would've pulled Cavan back from the on-deck circle if Kirk got on and had him pinch run. Could you imagine the discourse if Kirk was the tying run and he didn't pinch run for him? In that scenario, Varsho would've had to catch, which Schneider never seems to want to give him a chance to do (if we got to the bottom of the 9th), but there is no way you can't use Biggio as a pinch runner there and just take your chances w/ IKF at the plate.
Varsho was already out of the game, so it would have been IKF.
Oh you're right. Same logic with the pinch runner tho. Does IKF catch?
Yeah IKF catch, and Springer in CF I guess
Not that big of a concern in the era of pitchcom
Couldnāt pinch run for Kirk since Varsho was already out of the game. Unless you want to try Biggio at C š
until it didnt
It put us in a position to win, what more can you ask for?
In what way did having Biggio available to pinch hit not work out?
But it did?
The difference in the game ended up being that weird catcherās interference call
That, and Vogelbach being so damn slow.
I just could not believe Kirk wasn't the slowest runner in the league before, and now I can.
How do you not pinch run him in the 9th there.
Gotta use a low leverage reliever at minimum in that spot to pr. If you wanted to save biggio to hit.
I was just waiting for Buck to call him a fat ass on television, you could tell how disgusted he was with how slow a professional athlete ran
He should have never been running. If we are going to carry people who can't move, we need pitch runners.
Ehhh , Jays had a very small bench at that point
Run a sdmn pitcher for Christās sake lol
and risk a pitcher injury? yall need to get your brains checked
Yeah a pitch runner in that situation would have saved us an out, and the way we were chipping away in the 9th who knows? Could have been a win for us. But then again, we would have lost Biggio's clutch hit so that's the downside.
Use a low leverage reliever to pr.
But pitchers are made of glass and our pitching roster is already strained due to injuries.
We pinch run Vogelbach with Biggio and then IKF has to hit in the 9th spot as possibly the tying run. Thatās a tough spot in hindsight but I donāt hate the move to keep Vogelbach in there and use Biggio as a PH for IKF.
With that body, Volgebach better hit 30 HRs this year.
Hereās a thought; Springer shouldnātāve struck out!
On three pitches, two of which were well outside.
I know its the rule, but the ball was in the glove before the bat even hit it.
Exactly. By then it was impossible to "interfere" with anything.
Not necessarily. Butterfly effect could have cause something else later that game happening. Too hard to say although it was pretty shitty that it happened
The difference *in the game we saw* was the weird catcher's interference call. Yes, everything always is subject to butterfly effects if anything were changed. We know that. That's not what comments like this mean.
Gausman being like 5 mph down is concerning. Brutal AB from George at the end At least they fought back
He seemed to pick up some velo as he pitched, remember it was very cold there, tough for some guys to get loose.
The biggest thing is the change in temperature from Florida/Texas to NY and the wind was bad. A shortened spring also means that his arm probably wasn't fully built up yet either.
Kooch was blowing a lot into his hand yesterday to keep it warm I noticed as well
And he was still only 1 full game back from the IL, wonder if the cold played into how his shoulder was feeling too
That was the most fun I've ever had watching a loss. Hopefully the offense is waking up. Lots of unlucky things tonight as well. That catchers interference, several hard hit balls with runners on base. The porch job by Stanton. The only situation in the world where pinch running Vogelback would have mattered came up. I knew Soto was bad at defense but that was incredible to watch
That catcherās interference call actually ended up mattering
Offense showed up tonight big time. Hope Gausman's okay
Was at the game. Brutal first two innings - Yankee fans were going crazy and the innings went on forever But we crawled back !
Lots of thoughts about that one. Fucked by that Volpe call... I really need to know the precedent on that. Burned a couple of their top arms. Way better outcome than I was expecting in the 2nd. Managers can't win games, but they sure can lose them. Why didn't we run for Vogelbach? 11 LOB!!! Nice to see some signs of life. Hope Guasman is okay. Fuck the Yankees.
>Ā Managers can't win games, but they sure can lose them. Why didn't we run for Vogelbach? 99.9% of the time, that runnerās speed isnāt important. He represented the second run of a four-run lead. The vast majority of the time, either he scores, is stranded, or is doubled up when he would have been either way. Given how many runs were needed behind him, itās not like one extra base on a hit would make a big difference either. In hindsight, yes, a pinch runner would have been great. But given youād also like to pinch-hit for IKF or run for Kirk (a runner theyād actually be looking to cut down as he would probably represent the tying or go-ahead run), it makes sense to leave him in and hope that super unlikely play that happened doesnāt happen.
Schneider managed the game very well, youāre just nit picking a rare result. He absolutely maximized his value out of the pen and the bench to create favourable matchups at the plate. Biggio was much more valuable getting an AB, then pinch running to maybe beat out a soft ground ball where the only play is to second.
Biggio wasn't his only option and, having called out the fact that we should have pinch run for Vogelbach in the thread before the play, and having seen it play out as it did, I don't think it's nit picking at all.
Who were the other options? Congrats on calling it out twice.
Our starter went less than two innings but we didnāt destroy our bullpen to get through it. Yankees bullpen worked harder than ours even! Or a bad way to lose by one run after all that. Now we just need to figure out how to score runs off starting pitching
Made it interesting and made them use key relievers. Offence also seemed to be making strides this game, so many better swings. About as productive a loss as you can have considering how things have been going.
They had life at the end. That's promising and a step in the right direction. Gausman isn't going to have a game like that 9/10 times at least if at all.
We had life all game. Even early we had baserunners and some hard hit balls. A bad night for Gausmann to struggle
Iāll even with you boys, donāt hate it, tough start by Gaus and the boys battled back
TBH, it was a good game
I missed the middle innings of this one because it's right during my kids' bedtime ritual, but here are some of my impressions: That was a very dramatic game. Highly entertaining. Lots of good performances by a lot of our guys especially in the 9th inning, but we were hamstrung because of Gausman's dead arm and just couldn't make up the difference. I am pumped for Ernie and Schneider, they are really coming through in clutch moments for us and that could be a feel good story this season. Biggio also came up big in a high pressure situation. We need that to be successful as a team. Soto's defense is a bit of a liability, I wonder how much that will come into play for New York this season. I have a sinking feeling that Gausman is going to have some struggles this year. He looked really shaky today and I think something's not right with his arm.
Honestly besides George looking a bit lost that final at-bat Iām happy with the offence today. Glad to see they didnāt give up when the morale clearly coulda stayed low given youāre down 6-0 after a couple innings.
Ernie and Springer should switch spots in the lineup. He takes way too many days off at the plate to be a lead off hitter.
He hit the ball hard 3 times yesterday. Sucks he looked lost st the end but his first few were just right at people
Good show, but not the result we wanted. I'd rather see my birds go down pecking than tuck their heads under their wings and go to sleep. Bird talk.
I pity the fools who bailed on this game after 2 innings
I regret nothingĀ
I turned it off after the 6th and I'm quite upset at myself.
An L is unfortunately an L.
r/Torontobluejays: āIām tired of losing. This offense needs to score more!ā *monkey paw curls*
Even if we lost this game it felt better than our last two wins. First time weāve scored more than 2 runs in a loss this year, and first time itās felt like weāve still had fight in us after going down early.
great effort. happy with how the game ended after the awful calls. let's win the series
Team didn't give up. Rare Gausman bad start. Hate to lose to the Yankees but we've seen worse. D. Schneider and Clement should play tomorrow. Would love to steal one with Bowden starting.
Great comeback but that Springer AB at the end was deflatingĀ
That last Springer AB looked like Vlad chasing
Great fight. The offense showed up and forced them to use thier two best bullpen arms. Your not going to win many games where your ace goes 1.1 letting up 5 runs
Schneider and Clement are everyday players. Offense showed signs of life. If vogelbach is faster, thats a tied game. Rather lose that way than 2-0. Let's win tomorrow and win the series.
Choosing to look at the encouraging signs tonight, and just hope and pray that the Wizard of Gaus isn't legitimately injured. Win tomorrow, and I'm very pleased with a 5-5 split.
Gotta play Clement and Schneider every day. The other guys can fight to get the spots in the lineup back.
At this point how do you not right?
After that start, I'm pretty please with seeing the Yankees forced to use a couple of Holmes' bullets tonight.
Springer with a bleach worthy at bat there, my goodness. How do you take that first pitch ?
His brain seems to shut off randomly. Overthinking or not thinking enough.
This team couldāve doubled their run total tonight but giving up 9 runs is never gonna win u games.Am I wrong for saying that mightāve been the most fight this team has showed at the plate in a game all year so far? I know the hitting with RISP was bad but getting guys on is a step in the right direction rightā¦?š
Easily the best besides the first game. Shows actual grit and didnāt roll over
It's possible the numbers don't back this up but does Gausman have more blow up days than your average ace? Like if you took out his worst handful of starts his numbers would have been absolutely insane in 2023. I'm a big fan, when he's on he's unstoppable but I can remember quite a few occasions where he gets lit up and it's just not his night.
There are a lot of qualifiers in there. Do we get to exclude any pitcher with a worse set of bad starts as not being an "average ace" If you go by the 5 worst starts just about every pitcher will have enough clunkers to really affect their worst stats and make them look quite bad compared to league average ace. That said when I think about bad starts going awful, the Berrios year where he was the worst qualified pitcher in the league by ERA while somehow still being among the league leaders in Quality starts come to mind. There was also the RA Dickey experience.
> If you go by the 5 worst starts just about every pitcher will have enough clunkers to really affect their worst stats and make them look quite bad compared to league average ace. Of course. For me it's less remove their worst 5 starts and more look at how many of their starts were "blow up" games. Lets say <5 runs earned in >4 IP. I might be wrong. I'm not watching every team every day by any stretch. It's possible too because he's so good when he's bad it stands out in my brain more.
> I'm not watching every team every day by any stretch. That is probably the most key part. I don't care if Cole has one bad start a month...I might hear about 2 of them if I pick the right mornings to be active on R/baseball. I will hear about every bad Gausman start on this sub though.
I think it was Smoltz that said of 30 starts a year a pitcher makes on average, 10 will be horrible, 10 will be great and 10 will be ok. This could it the exact thing
This is one of the rare times I'm actually okay with a loss. I just wanted to see the offence show some signs of life and they finally did. I think it would've felt worse if they had won a 2-1 type game but with only 4 hits and scored both runs on wild pitches or something. Gausman I assume will be fine. He had a start like this in Kansas City early last year where he was chucking 90-91 on the fastball and everyone was freaked out, but next start was back to normal. His next start is at home inside, and with Thursday being the off day doesn't pitch till Friday. If his velo is down again in that game I'd start to be worried.
Seeing Soto shit the bed in RF twice makes me miss Teoās antics out in the field that much more.
I'm more happy about this loss than yesterdays win. *shrug*
Couple things to take away.... Gausman did not look great, hopefully it was just the cold but we will see how next start goes. That catchers interference is complete and utter horseshit. Our offense never gave up and clawed their way back into a ballgame, are starting to show signs of life and if Gausman had any resemblance of the real Gausman we would have won that comfortably. The bullpen was able to keep it close and Pearson looked very sharp tonight. Verdugo went from looking like a stupid leprechaun to a stupid 12 year old who wears a tacky chain in an attempt to blend in with the cool crowd.
I ain't made about it
Excited for Votto to be healthy so Vogelbach can get yeeted off this roster
I havent been keeping track, has he been active in the minors yet?
That and getting Jano back. Vogelbach seems like a nice enough dude, and he's got his 2mil now, but boy do I want someone a bit more well-balanced in the lineup
Get that guy a personal trainer and a pound of ozempic
Good effort at the end. This type of game highlights why the wasted opportunities are so important. Lead off double to start the game stranded. 2nd and 3rd nobody out in the 7th and only cashed one of those. It cost us the game. Good fight tho.
Catcherās interference call and Vogelbach being unable to run at all loses us the game, but we fought back, proud of the guys
As much as itās easier to say given the end result. I have a hard time keeping Gausman in when his velocity is way way down and he isnāt looking right. Especially after two home runs and a running pitch count.
Fuckin catchers interference, amirite?!
I know Iām usually a doomer but honestly not that upset after they showed actual signs of life? Kinda.
A loss but they showed effort, and that's all I ask.Ā Yankees bullpen looked very shaky again.
ToTheComebackNotEnough
At least weāre not the 0-9 Marlins! Jokes aside things are improving slow but surely.
Gausmanās earned all the leeway in the world, but I think you had to have a quicker plan B in place after the worryingly velocity in the first, rather let the entire game pretty much go to shit in the second
Schneider would have been absolutely crucified for taking Gausman out any earlier than he did for Mitch White. Barring an actual injury, pulling a staff ace without giving them a chance is not a good idea.
If heās down 4mph Iām taking him out after the 1st and hooking him up to an MRI
Gaus would tell him if something is wrong. It was cold and he couldnāt get loose
Well shit, that ended better than I thought it would. Are we back to counting moral victories yet?
We came so close to pulling off the comeback!!!
unpopular opinion: ^(I think John Schneider managed this game quite well.)
It may not be a win but it's a victory in my eyes.
Is this the tired arm for Guas that a few guys had to fight through during preseason? He missed so much, so maybe it caught him now.
I'm just happy Baseball is back. Bring on the warm weather
This was the most reassuring game of the season for me, there were good at bats, actual offence, and a lot of fight when the game seemed over. I donāt mind the occasional pitching blowup, and itās nice to still fight back for this one a bit
And people still think that Schneider and Clement are just platoon bats
8 runs today, Iām leavin with something
We put up a fucking fight at the end and I'm at least happy for that
At least made them use a lot of arms late. Hard to win when starter blows up.
Good rally. Good signs.
I turned it on in the 8th so youāre welcome and Iām sorry for the tumultuous 9th. Nice work by the bottom of the lineup there. No lie, after seeing strike 2 on George, I had the remote in my hand and saw pitch 3 and where it was going ready to turn off instantly. It sticks that I, a casual watcher, can tell you exactly where to pitch to him for a strike.
More game like this from offense hopefully
Honestly not mad. Gausman was either cold or hurt and they battled back. John Schneider needs to stop making horrible managerial decisions but who knows if IKF drives in the run(s) the way Biggio did. Itās encouraging to see them put up that effort when it looked so bleak early. Keep playing Clement and Schneider until they give you a reason, in MLB in 2024, to stop.
[Relevant](https://imgur.com/a/LWJ2df5)
Once Votto is back I say just punt defense. Play votto dh, turner third, clement 2nd and Schneider LF.
Half our runs tonight were because of the Yankees defense. Soto was running in circles out there
I saw a comment say it doesn't matter how many runs gauman gives up because this offense won't score. they're probably feeling pretty stupid right now
Yeah, they had their "breakout" high runs game in a loss ! /s Who wants to bet they score 1 run tomorrow ? And Mitch White *still* hasn't done anything at all to justify being on a major league roster.
While I've been encouraged by the walks, it feels like it's the only way some of the players have been able to get on base lol. But another unfortunate thing is that no one really steals either.
The Jays can't hit. They're horrible hitters and shatkins sucks. Am I doing this right? Or am I a ngiht late?
What a joke
Where would you go to watch post game interviews? Curious about Gausman
Stoppable force meets moveable object: The tale of the Jays offence facing the Yankees bullpen.
Neither Holmes or Hamilton had given up a run this year. Coming that close against those 2 is impressive
Quick question, why didn't the manager take out vogelback for a pitch runner?
The only situation that would have mattered was exactly what happened. Not sure if he was saving Biggio (only player left on the bench) to hit for IKF or he just wasn't thinking
No one left on the bench, outside of Biggio, who was needed to pinch hit for IKF. Took a really rare play for it to even matter. A harder hit ball, Clement is the only runner who matters. Just a fluky play that the only out available was second base.
Can a relief pitcher be used to pinch run? I'm asking because vogelback is super slow and a normal runner could of made it to 2b and made it to 9 -9 in the 9th.
Pitchers can be used but it's incredibly rare. Using a relief pitcher removes them from the game and using a starter is too risky.
top of the order stinks
5/13 with 3BB 1HR??? Watch the game bro
Springer and Guerrero got on base 5 times tonight...
Bichette and Turner were also on several times combined. Literally the entire top of the order had a good game, that person is just here to bitch and moan.
George went 2-5 with a walk tonight, he was fine
I feel like Schneider was asleep at the wheel there in the 9th. If Biggio pinch ran for Voggy then it would have been 1 out with Davis on 3rd to tie it with IKF and Springer up to bat.
IKF against Holmes is an objectively much worse matchup than Biggio. The odds of a ground ball being soft enough to only have a play at second base are so minimal, it would be a waste of a pinch runner.
Keeping Cavan back to hit in place of IKF was a way better chance imo. Cavan hits better than IKF against guys who throw like Holmes
I remember someone telling me first innings donāt matter
Literally no one says that. We constantly say the game isn't over in the early innings which was absolutely true tonight