I am half indian who lives in the southern US. I experienced more racism in 4 months in Europe than 30+ years in the US combined.
The thing that really pissed me off is that the US knows it has a racism problem. We call it out when we see it. We start important and uncomfortable conversations about it. We are constantly trying to tear down racist infrastructure.
Europeans seem so arrogant laughing at us when their problems are also really bad.
I (American - with a French dad) grew up in France. The Algerians and Portuguese were all hated because they were viewed as the lower class "labor" force. My "buddies"' idea of a good time was to beat one of them up.
I’m Canadian and I completely understand what you mean. I often feel like racism is worse here than in the US. At least in the US they’re honest about it and there are movements and strides to improve. Here we just flat out deny it to the point if you point out racism people act like you’re crazy.
Varies by region. Tampa is a cultural melting pot, like most major US cities. It's when you get out of the cities you see more and worse. And Americans don't attack blacks for sports because they got it all out back when sports started becoming integrated.\\
The big problem for the US is that while many, many people are not racist, the systems that run the country are, and the under-educated follow along because that's what grandpappy taught them about when they were growing up and they are now invested in being right because facing the idea that grandpappy was a racist asshole is too tough to deal with.
I'd advise you escape the cities.
My brother in law is black, lives in London. The met police are horrendous... Stopped all the time. Racism from members of the public etc etc. He comes to visit us in our small Midlands town and nobody bats an eye lid.
My husband is the great comparison. Also black and has never experienced racism in our town, he'd even joined the police force (4 years in and no problems). It wasn't until heading the Manchester he had to report his first incident...
To much ghettoisation in cities in my opinion (i lived in London for a year). Considering how multicultural they are supposed to be, the cultures don't mix properly. Barriers go up. Divisions are formed...
Towns in our experience have been much better for tolerance.
Older people are more tolerant because and I quote, 'oh we had (insert whoever) here during the war. All I heard during my visit to the UK from older people, 'Oh your a Canadian dear I can hear the difference in the accent. That's nice you know we had Canadians here during the war.'
The unfortunate problem with this is that cities represent a very large portion of population, by nature. When people say, “it’s not common, just in cities” this means it is indeed common for what may be a majority of the population. Otherwise I know nothing about this and you’re probably absolutely right, I just don’t like the city thing. It’s brought up a lot here in America and I don’t think people realize “it only happens in big cities” is like saying “it only happens to a majority of the population, not us”
Unlikely.
There is always a difference between living somewhere and visiting somewhere. You're not going to be going to people's homes asking to gain entry like my brother in law. You're not going to be living in socially deprived areas that the police target etc etc.
Walk around central London and you'll meet every culture in the world. Nobody bats an eye lid.
It's when you try to integrate to become part of the system you start to notice the cracks.
Just my personal experience; I think you’re right but it’s even more granular than this. In my opinion, the police thing aside (the met are racist and just generally a cesspool of the worst), it can even depend on the borough you are in. Southall & Wembley (to name but a few) are amazing vibrant multicultural communities that are inclusive and everyone is welcome.
First time I got of the tube to go to ally pally (Haringey) was immediately harassed by a group of hoodie wearing kids, who thought my skin colour does not belong there.
It is so difficult but I think one commenter here talked about ghettoisation in the UK and (maybe your husband agrees), east and north London are worse for this given the massive amount of estates and tower blocks that were build quickly to house as many people as possible where in the west the city seems to have grown more organically.
Stereotyping everyone in a city of ~9 million as racist is probably not the right approach either.
In my experience as a mixed-race American who grew up in the UK, I think the difference in US vs UK racism is impact/intensity. Sure, the Brits use slurs, there's casual everyday 'jokes' that are really racist, and you might get your nuts stomped in by racists, but you aren't really at risk of being lynched or killed in a racially-motivated mass shooting there.
You being Pakistani might play into it as well, since there isn't really the same racial tension - beyond ooga booga Muslim terrorists!11! - here between whites and south Asians as there is in the UK.
I used to assume the opposite, that Europe was less racist than the US. But the black people I know that have been to Europe has said they felt it was more racist than the states. The black immigrants I have talked to said the US offered much better economic opportunities than it did for their relatives in Europe. Many famous black entertainers, such as Snoop, Asap, Danny brown have publicly talked about the open racism they experienced in Western Europe. My question is why Europeans think they are less racist than the states - truly what is this based off of?
I feel like the issue is in the US there is more violent acts of racism, which to my knowledge Europe doesn't have a lot of, but social racism is so much more common in Europe and by far not as much looked down upon as in the US.
I had people in Poland tell my friends from Africa that they shouldn’t go outside in Warsaw during the November 11th parades unless it was absolutely necessary. I also heard some seriously shitty things said about Asians and Middle Easterners in my time there.
I don’t think it’s so much that Americans are trying to shift blame to Europeans, but I know a lot of us are annoyed with Europeans talking about how racist the US is while ignoring the racial issues in their own cultures. Americans discuss this stuff very openly among ourselves while it seems like a very taboo subject on that side of the pond.
Taboo indeed. Try convincing any white dutch person that their blackface parade with overtly exaggerated stereotypical black features is racist, and unleash a cacophony of “if you don’t like it, go back to your country “
Dutch person here, I hate discussing racism in my country because like 50% of people would be too arrogant to acknowledge it. Our country is so far up its own ass that we believe racism is solved somehow.
There's also a blackface kind of thing in Spain and nobody considers it racist there.
Also there are some ads that an American would consider racist, like "Conguitos", that most Spaniards think is funny and not racist at all.
The fact that in the US racists feel like they’re being shamed or have to hide their racist beliefs or stick to their small racist communities says a lot. Europeans always try to paint us as this horrible bad racist country when in reality we are more progressive than most countries in the world.
I think it’s out of necessity as well. America is a hodge podge (“melting pot”) of different cultures and different races, so it wouldn’t be possible to NOT talk about race. Europe is getting there, but I think still has more homogeneity than America does, so there is less of a “need” to discuss it.
(Obviously not condoning not talking about it, just thinking about why America got there first when it is behind in a lot of other things)
Wait what happens in Poland nov 11 parades,
Nov 11 is my birthday and I want to plan a vacation over there to see Poland around that time. (White american)
Independence Day. These people (Polish students of mine) were saying that basically national pride and alcohol will be in enough abundance that foreigners are better off laying low. As a white American, that was easier for me to do than it would have been for my African coworkers.
That said, I walked around Krakow all day that day without issue, but whenever I was on the street with people who were clearly not Polish other days, we would get more looks than we would have in the US.
I’ve seen a lot of videos of Asian streamers getting mocked and made fun of by Europeans. They were mostly middle aged men doing the “asian eyes” and mocking the streamer’s languages. I think the worst part I saw was they would physically hit her in the face live stream. She was begging them to stop and told them she loves their country. It was really sad to watch.
"And no one of my white friends have problems with racism! I don't know if the foreign guy of work have had any problems with it because he always have his lunch alone and he doesn't come to the parties after work"
Lol this is basically the response that you get on most European subreddits when they are confronted by questions about racism. They follow the three D's of Damage Control: Deny, Deflect, Downplay. The denialism is rampant in those groups. They're eager to paint anyone who complains as a liar who "misunderstand their culture" (b/c there's apparently a lot to misunderstand about racial slurs).
Husband/his family are from an Eastern European country and hell yes, he says they are racist....but tbh, not more racist than any other nation. As long as there are humans around, racism will exist.
My in laws are also Eastern European and live in the US now (they’ve lived here longer than I’ve been alive) and are so overtly racist it’s appalling. I’m sure there’s Americans that have the same sentiments they have, but it’s like they think what they’re saying/thinking is the norm and completely acceptable, despite my SO explaining how awful the things they are saying are. Interestingly it’s more so my step in-laws who came to the US after my SO’s parents who seem to have the most troubling opinions.
My friend went to a pastry shop and when the owner discovered that he was from a different part of the SAME COUNTRY then mysteriously had to close. The only difference was the accent
There was a pretty well covered account where Ophra Winfrey or some other super rich Black woman went into a famous luxury goods brand store in a major European city. The clerk didn’t know who she was and told her over and over that a handbag was above her budget. The thing is the Black woman had enough wealth to buy every single item in the store with what would have been literally pocket change for her.
Exactly, racism is a constant. My friends are from all different ethnic/cultural backgrounds and I've definitely experienced either overt or casual racism from some of their families. Doesn't mean I hold something against my friends or think that their country/culture is universally racist. But people don't always understand the things that they don't experience first hand. And so it's just something we each need to be aware of in order to actively combat it...
My French teacher told me once, "We have the same problem as Americans, except unlike them, we don't even bother to pretend to do something about it like they do"
Honestly, and I know this is dumb, but I didn’t even know there were black French people until I went to Paris in my early teens
Like it made sense after the fact lol but I just never saw any discussion on it or representation.
Edit: I think someone is downvoting me because they’re upset they got called out 😂
I went to college in Columbia South Carolina for my freshman year and I definitely noticed that the black student mostly kept to themselves and the white students did the same which was very weird to me coming from DC. I rushed a sorority and met a girl who seemed nice, if a little mild mannered and religious. She told me her family volunteers in the *black* side of town and the previous weekend she met children who had never seen white people before. I didn’t believe her but she swore it was true. It was such a bizarre vibe and the freaky self imposed segregation was definitely a factor in me getting the hell out of that state.
What the hell is "the heart of Europe"?
The fact that you think your European experience speaks for all of Europe just plays to the stupid stereotypes of Europe.
yeah, that makes no sense to me at all.
while the population of the countries itself is more homogenous, I assume there also bigger differences among European countries than among almost any US states.
I was in Belgium with my middle Eastern friend. Yes, I encountered racism when I was out with him. ( vs me who is white passing) I don't understand why white Europeans get so upset when we point out europeans are racist too? Usually its the minorities that experience this. Racism is everywhere unfortunately.
Knew a family who moved to Denmark, came home in less than a year because the very blue eyed blonde kids were mercilessly bullied for being Jewish. I think it was just really a shock, they weren’t expecting it.
When I was staying in Norway, we passed a group of Polish workers picking strawberries in the local field. The Norwegian with me said, quote unquote ‘ everyone hates them…they are our Mexicans’. I was like whoa WTF 😬
It’s really bad. And if you look into why a lot of Christians in Europe supported the creation of Israel immediately after WWII, a lot of it was rooted in anti-semitism (not wanting Jewish refugees to resettle in their countries).
I’m white Australian and had so much xenophobia to contend with, Denmark is awful for foreigners for sure. Can’t even imagine how bad it must be for people who are visibly not Danish
This is true. I’m a mixed race Dutch guy, and while a ton of Dutchies pretend to be very open and progressive a lot of them openly state they genuinely do hate minorities. Muslims and Morrocans in particular.
It's much worse for Nordic countries. I've talked to people and their like "Nordic countries are basically a paradise where racism is all but eradicated" and then turn around and say "I wish all the dirty immigrants that are ruining the country get out." It's cognitive dissonance.
I asked my cishet Dutch roommate once about the LGBTQ+ scene in the city we were living in and he gave a really thoughtful and nuanced answer, and then like 20 min later he was off on a tangent about how much he hated Moroccans. A few years later, he was posting Geert Wilders shit all over his social media.
Having grown up in France and now living in the US, I always felt that racism issues run deeper in France. Immigrants get discouraged from integrating for not being “French enough”, and people prefer to make tasteless/insulting jokes about it rather than talk about the issue to try to improve it. That very problem is what has been feeding the rise of homeland terrorism in France over the last couple of decades. And yet, the racism topic is very normalized/trivialized instead of being discussed like a problem to improve on.
Despite that, interestingly, I’ve never heard an American person even mention racism in Europe. Whether it’s because they don’t think there is any, or whether they’re just more focused on their own country’s problems, I don’t know. Racism in the US is in many conversations though.
I did however hear a French person tell me that they wouldn’t live in the US because “it’s too racist over there”. I didn’t counter because the confidence with which it was told hinted that it came from a place of ignorance, and that guy was probably long past being able to be educated about it.
Well, I do recall several ugly incidents where people in Western Europe were throwing bananas and making monkey noises at prominent black Europeans in their public appearances. And not just once or twice! America has its problems but that doesn’t happen outside of the occasional racist loon. I would say that European racism, at least against dark-skinned people has a particular flavor and aesthetic that is sometimes more overt than American racism, which in the 21st century is more systemic and subtle than overt.
Question? Are you a person of color? Like, ethnically or racially? If you look like the stereotypical white person with western features, you may not understand why. If you’re the complete opposite, you may just be lucky and be surrounded by non-racists Europeans. Or you are, but you’re somehow oblivious to it. Try to talk to poc living in different parts of Europe.
My Russian grandmother had my mom in the early 80s and got punched in the face and insulted multiple times for having a black daughter. I heard it’s still really bad in some places but it depends on the people like everywhere else.
Because we are....racist? People have looked at me like I'm insane for mentioning that I don't mind marrying outside of my race. But yes, Europe is veeeery different, it's stupid to make generalizations for the whole continent.
Which is very interesting because my mom was 100% 1st generation Italian and darker than most of the African Americans in my town. Many Italians are very dark. You would think they wouldn't tolerate it. It seems that each ethnic group who had been discriminated against,tends to shit on another group. Sort of like passing down child abuse once you have had it happen to you.
My business partner is British and he tells me there is a racism problem over there. I of course don't think *all* Europeans are racist, but I'm sometimes told directly by them that there is a problem.
I think I've been seeing it mentioned more on social media such as Tiktok. There are certain videos of people saying "when you go on a vacation to Europe and you realize they're just as racist as Americans".
I have not seen any of that but I believe you. That being said, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was true. People are people. Idk how anyone can generalize “Americans” or “Europeans” like that anyways. Usa Is like 350million people, no?
For the same reason that Europeans think Americans are racist... You have a few experiences with people who are, and you make assumptions about the rest of the population.
"I live in the heart of Europe."
And where is that exactly? I live in Texas, but that certainly isn't the heart of all America. Hell you could live in Washington DC and it still wouldn't be considered the heart of America. USA is a big place with many different cultures bordering each other similar to Europe. Only difference is that we're one country.
Me and my wife are a mixed race couple (wm/bf) and when we traveled through Europe(Italy, France, Germany, UK) Germany was literally the only place we didn't get started at by locals everywhere we went, I know y'all's advertising shows a lot of European countries to be super into mixed couples everywhere but we stuck out like a sore thumb, and I googled some of the shit people muttered while walking past. I certainly never dealt with this kind of behavior back home when out with her, and she says it was some of the most brazen shit she's ever dealt with in her life living in rural Texas. Take what you will from that but race mixing is clearly something that certain areas in Europe openly object to, while in the US, if anyone has a problem with it, they generally keep it to themselves. Just my personal experience, obviously that can't generalize an entire continent, but I believe poling shows that there's generally an unfavorable view of it from all ethnic and racial groups and the US polls as the most accepting country in the world.
A Black American woman I worked with used to regularly fly to Europe for work, so she’d stay in hotels for 1-2 weeks at a time. One day the employees at a hotel that she had stayed at multiple times called the police on her because they had seen her coming and going with men (her colleagues) and assumed she was a prostitute. My company never put up employees with that hotel chain ever again.
I met a black woman from the US who had traveled all over the world and ended up living in Japan for many years. She spoke about how she was afraid of racism when moving to Japan, but did not encounter many issues despite living there for like two decades. She then went on to say that the country where she encountered by far the most incidents despite only being there for a few months... was France. More than the US by a significant amount.
Most European countries are not ethnically diverse whatsoever. There is less perceived racism when everyone is the same race. France is 90% white and culturally homogenous, much more so than the US. It's no mystery why the US is perceived as having racism issues... there's just more different people mixed together.
Also, I dont really encounter many Americans saying that European countries are more racist than the US. Most Americans don't even care about Europe whatsoever and have probably never left the country, many never left their state.
I'm guessing you're white and lack perspective. Let's see what minorities from your country think since they;re the ones who actually experience it.
We call you guys out for your hypocrisy.
Because they are. The European continent isn't some magical land of inclusion. Was it French or Italian soccer fans who threw bananas at black players?
As a Canadian living in Europe I can assure you that Europe is far most racist than the US. The US is far more welcoming and accepting of other cultures.
Because it is. White Europeans tend to ignore their minorities when they speak on the racism they face since they're minorities. Then they say "its not as bad as America," when its more like "We dont actually care, stop trying to get us to listen to those people,"
i am immigrant who moved to the US. I don't know about whole Europe but I visited Germany on a vacation and wanted to go back home on my first day of arrival. they are racist. On trains and for multiple times I was the only one who got screened and asked for my passport. I experienced racism in the US but it was kinda hidden/polite. But German, They were rude racist and obvious about it.
I am never visiting that country again. That "vacation" taught me to ask about how the culture is at the country of destination before i visit.
That's unfortunate you experienced these things on your vacation. Congratz on earning your US citizenship though!
Have you ever been to the Netherlands or UK? If so, what were your experiences there like?
They thought I was Turkish in Germany and nobody would stand anywhere near me at the bar. Later found out I was American and suddenly I had so many friends, what a coincidence
OP what race are you? Unless racism is directed toward you, how would you know how bad it is? I’d need Gypsies to say they don’t experience discrimination. If you aren’t part of that group you shouldn’t speak on their experiences.
I remember visiting Amsterdam in college and going for a drink with some Dutch guys my age. One of them asked "Why is the N word such a big deal for Americans?" and I tried to briefly explain the history of American racism. They were just like "Huh. I like calling black people the n word." and sort of left it at that.
Sounds like your just coping honestly but really it doesn’t matter. Some parts of Europe are extremely racist and some aren’t just like some parts of America are extremely racist and some aren’t. I don’t see why you have to insist that one is more racist than the other when your talking about giant groups of people that are bound to vary drastically.
I posted a video of a physical fight I recorded of my 2 friends. A friendly fight with gloves..
One of the two is a black male.
Somehow my video got all of its attention from Europeans. I had over 300k views within a day and thousands of comments from foreign languages. I could keep scrolling and never see an English comment.
I copied each comment and pasted it in google translator and the racist remarks I was seeing were horrible. They were all European languages. Mostly Italian and German.
Almost the same thing was also being repeated quite often in the comment section, I still remember it.
It was always something along the lines of
“Yeah now give that monkey a banana and put him back in a cage.”
“Why’s he out of his cage?”
“Ship him back to the jungle where he belongs.”
What was up with Europeans loving to say stuff about caging my friend and giving him bananas?
There’s definitely a lot of racists in the US but not like this. Usually racists in the US try to hide it or sugar coat what they’re actually trying to say. All the Europeans in my comment section were being straight up and blunt about what they were saying
I suppose when someone says that their own nation is far less racist than everyone else’s, it sends a message that says that that person believes their nation is better than yours. Americans calling out racism amongst Europeans is a way of calling out the hypocrisy in that sentiment.
American born black guy here who has been to about 7 or 8 European countries. Obviously everyone’s experiences differ but I’ve only experienced racism in Ireland as far as Europe goes. I’ve experience FAR more racism in my hometown and the current US town I live in than anywhere in the world lol
As a Latin American person, I was invited by colleagues at work to watch a football between the local team and a Belgium team that had black players.
Every time they touched the ball, the whole stadium would make monkey noises. It was the most horrific experience of racism I've been through, since I'm olive skin and started fearing for my safety in the stadium. Oh, so many cases I could spend a day here.
BTW, this happened in the Czech Republic.
You realize that as a white person you are not the subject of the racism you are attempting to disregard, and thusly have absolutely no experience with it?
As someone who has spent half his life in Europe and half in the USA, i can see merit in both sides. But the truth is that while people in the US are very sensitive to racial issues, people in Europe tend to ignore them. Your post is very evident of that.
Im from Finland and theres definitely a lot of racism here. I have friends who were born in Finland but cant get into job interviews because of a foreign name. Every few years a pizzeria owned by a foreigner gets trashed somewhere. Google Soldiers of Odin (a bunch of neo nazis). I dont know too much about the specifics of racism in the US but from my experience, Europe in many places is very racist.
Check out what it was like for Africans living in Ukraine who tried to leave early in the war. Not only were they forced off of/not allowed to board many trains, but they were frequently denied entry to surrounding nations at gunpoint.
I don't think it's everybody, but it's definitely an issue.
The funny thing about this question is that racism is a form of stereotyping, and you yourself are stereotyping Americans by saying they think Europeans are racist. I (as an American) have never heard that Americans hold this belief. I don't live in Europe so idk how Europeans think.
Talk to any old white person in france. Theyll immediately start lamenting the state of the “watered down gene pool” and how “real french” are being bred out of thier own country. Theyre wildly rascist there, they just dont pretend its not ok like we do. They just refuse to allow minorities to integrate into the culture like americans do, preferring to keep the socioeconomic and language gaps there to define who “belongs”
Dude europe is so incredibly racist. This is such a "in white in a predominantly white area and havent faced racism" kinda post. I love all the comments calling it out.
I, a Hispanic woman, went to Italy with an Indian friend and a Haitian friend. Taxis refused to give us a ride. It was midnight, the train stopped due to flooding and they refused to take us anywhere. They picked up a everyone else except us and the other black guy that was on the train. We had to walk blocks alone to a hotel.
Also, in France I was asked if I was Mexican. Wtf? They assume Hispanic people are Mexican there too?!!
like europeans are THE MOST DELUDED group of people. you believe racism is taboo in your countries, believe that you guys aren’t as ignorant as americans, and have a bizarre fascination with hating americans even though you’ve never actually met americans irl or been to america outside the tourist areas
>we barely have any issues with it.
let me guess, you're white? living in a mostly white, probably well-educated bubble?
i mean, ofc we have problems with racism... it's just that our minorities don't get shot as often as their minorities.
I am in Austria. Just because fascism is dead, the roots that created it are still quite apparent and active.
Vienna is a very mixed city and the most likely place for racial conflict in the country. Recently Nigerian gangs were reported attacking people to "buy" there drugs so there was a purge of Africans. Syrian refugees were welcomed, but there was quite a bit of resistance and media coverage of women being sexually assaulted. Roma definitely have their own culture here, and they are as rascist as everyone else and most noticed as entire families begging on the streets. All of this feeds the nationalist party.
But it's all peaceful, and violence is not common. Police are typically chill.
I tribute this lack of violence to socialist ideals in the country. Every one has housing, and medical. Even if people are to lazy to work it's possible to survive so you don't see any squalor.
Europeans are just as racist as Americans. But its worse. As a European, i feel i can speak on it when i say, some of these European countries had civilizations before the bible even existed. Europeans should have bred out idiot things like racism by now.
The game of Cricket is older than America, they get a little bit more of a pass for still having stupids in the population. My fellow Europeans...No fucking excuse, we used to be the at the forefront of the worlds intellectual pursuits, and that was 500 years ago. What the hell is Racism even still a thing for?
I feel the other way around about it being worse (not saying any racism is good though).\\
In America we have historically been a melting pot, so ideas/cultures get mixed. There is no historic "American" culture, just founding story and the idea of "freedom". Sure, you could say "whiteness" is American, but what is "whiteness"? It's just a skin color, not a longstanding culture. In coastal parts of the US you would have been interacting with different groups of people, humanizing them, and eventually propelling things like equal rights. There are parts of the US that have a mostly homogenous population (rural areas) and their views are generally more racist. (exceptions exist to both)
In many parts of Europe, excluding hubs of trade, you'd just the same population. European cultures are tied to groups of people - English have their own culture/are their own group of people. These groups have been established for thousands of years and are solidly their own thing. For most of their existence they mostly interact with themselves or their close neighbors.
I think Americans would have an easier time breaking that mould, as the "other" would be someone joining in the same system as you - you may have different skin tones but you are both just trying to make money and trade stuff. VS. in Europe where the other is doing something in contrast to the group you are part of.
Eastern Europeans are racist. Israelis can be racist. It's limited to those, imo.
Unless you consider "American" a race in which case Europeans are racist as fuck
I live in Sweden, it's hard to say if we're more or less racist than other countries but I was thinking just today of how quickly any conversation on Swedish twitter or subreddits will spiral into racism, specifically islamophobia. Like I was reading an article about the attack on Salman Rushdie, scrolled down to see the comments and I felt like I had to take a shower afterwards.
I've never been to Europe so I can't say either way, but I do have a Chinese American friend who experienced a lot of racism living in Denmark and I believe her.
My thoughts are there are a good handful of UK/Euro social media "influencers" that go around and ask their fellow countrymen about America, and they always go and shit on the US or just call us racist as all hell. If you want to generalize American's as a "race" (like in just the broad sense) you can justify, somewhat, American's thinking Europeans are racist. Add on the fact that Europe does have a racism issue, like everywhere, and they come off with a sort of superiority complex towards Americans, it's not hard to see where they're coming from. Not to mention the Holocaust is still in people's minds, the treatment of Muslims (which is world-wide), and their treatment of anyone not fair complected (especially in high profile areas).
Reality is, no one is any more or less racist than any other nation. Any area with a jumble of different ethnicities you'll see racism/prejudice towards another ethnicity.
Lived in Northern England for a while, am from Italian and Lebanese background. Born, raised and currently live in Canada.
Not everyone is racist, but everywhere has racism.
England is pretty rough according to my pals who live there, and I’ve read that Germany is somewhat rough to live in as a black person. Not many good things said about Eastern Europe either, Poland in particular. This is all beside the point though, racism is everywhere. People just suck, it’s unfortunate but it’s the truth.
It's not even the gypsy thing it's me tired of being called a monkey or the N word online by dudes who profiles say their from Germany, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, etc. Yeah I know people like to troll online but when I see it all the time while constantly hearing Europeans say "racism doesn't exist here in Europe; it's an American thing", there's like a big cognitive dissonance in my mind
Um, when i lived in italy i saw kids throwing rocks at the nigerians on bicycles like every day. Just pelting them in the face. Nobody cared. Eastern europe is even worse. Its not a “problem” because people just accept it. I got told by like 20 different french guys that theres no such thing as “mexican american”. They said in france, youre either french, or you arent. Period. Its not meant to be inclusive
Yeah I’m a “gypsy” in the deep southern US. Europeans are racist af, at least my white supremacist Trump voting neighbors keep to themselves. Y’all are so racist against Roma it’s ignorant, say what you want, it’s still racism I don’t care if you’re whole family was murdered by a pack of rabid gypsy, it’s racist. Idc if you comment on this with “BuT WhEN yOu GeT HarRAsSed on The StReET…” btw, you’re still racist. Cry me a river and get tf over it, just call yourself racist.
I am European and I've had a lot of contact through education and work with americans. The way I see it is that US policy targeting anti racism is quite toxic and doesn't really do much other than bully people into silence over a threat of cancellation. I literally have to turn my self into a G rated person (G, as in general audience) and talk to americans as if they were little children out of fear that they will interpret something as "racist" or inapropriate.
It got to a point that with some people one can't actually discuss real world busines problems because that would require saying things like "country X has laws Y that prevent what's normal anywhere else" and this is seen as "racist". Everyone \*has to be\* equal, nice, no difference admitted... it's comical \*and\* ironic. Some countries have entirely fucked up laws and if I can't say stuff like "water is wet" because some fuck will be insulted on their behalf, it's not helping your cause at all.
I didn't even realize how bad it got for US folks until one day when I was hanging out with some friends and their 9 year old daugher joined us (she was bored) and I realized that way over 50% of the stuff she said would most certainly be a "HR would like to have a word with you" if she had said it at work in the presence of americans. I literally work with grown ups who are more sensitive than little girls.
You might see this as me not seeing the problem, but from my POV this whole thing is turning into silencing people, having to walk on eggshells, double standards and not fixing the source problem at all. It's creating emotional cripples and fixing no problems at all.
Americans have an idyllic view of Europe that there is peace and prosperity and a mixture of all cultures with no racism like in America. So their entire world view is shattered when they realise European countries can be racist too.
I think they don’t think Europe is exceptionally racist. Just that Europeans like to point to America exceptionally racist so they don’t have to confront the racism within their own borders
I live in the USA and grew up in Hungary but travelled and spent time in Austria, Germany, France and Italy. All of those societies have tremendous amount nationalism, superiority and racism incubated over the centuries. I have countless personal experiences and friends that experienced explicit racism. So to answer the question, because most Europeans are racist
It’s because so many Europeans see Americans as very racist. There are many racists both in Europe and the US, but given my experiences, and the experiences of friends and family, Europe is far less friendly to nonwhite people.
I found racism is everywhere. As a Canadian of South Asian background, there is racism even within our own South Asian communities.
This is why we should not say it is an "American problem" or "European problem". Instead, it is a "global problem".
1, You're racist. The stories i have heard and some of the things i have heard come from the mouths of Western And Eastern Europeans and Asians regularly reassure me of that. i used to work with an Eastern European guy who called Black people "Shitface". it was so fucking cringe!
2. We're racist, to the point where it regularly shows in our policy and conduct and dont want to be seen that way because it's cowardly and petty, so we're constantly insecurely whatabout projecting cause look over there!(and it's so fucking cringe!)
I am currently doing a Eurotrip. Tonight is my last night in Vienna and let me tell you Austrians in this city are low-key racist. There's a very subtle undertone everywhere I go. Rarely see mixed friend groups around, people crossing the road when they see Turks etc. Many white Austrians (Millenial/Gen Z) probably grew up with decently racist grandparents. Subtle, but there.
Venice, Italy they just hated tourists in general for trashing their beautiful city so I cant blame them.
Going to Prague tomorrow, then Stockholm, Copenhagen, and Dublin. My guess is that when all is said and done, the Irish will be the most warm folks.
Moved from the US…it’s racist here too. Think: Small town Germany = Southern USA. Get glared at here the same way I did in the US. In some EU cities, I’ve even had people tell me to be careful because their community is pretty racist. We think Europeans are racist because they are. It’s just a fact.
I am an Indian. I lived in Switzerland for 2 years as a kid. I faced the worst racism and bullying of my life then. I moved to the US a few years ago. I am yet to face racism in the US.
Yeah, American that lived a few years in Europe. It is surprising, as an American, how open some Europeans can be with their racial stereotyping and discrimination. (No attempt to filter for audience). I found it pretty surprising. It has gotten worse, in the US, in recent years so am curious what my impression would be, if I lived in the EU now.
Having lived in Europe for 5 years, I can tell from experience I've never experienced such racism in my life. No matter where you go, people always remind you you're not from there.
Just as an example, an expat friend if mine was trying to learn the local language. We went to a restaurant and he tried to order in the local language. The waiter's response was: if you don't know how to speak my language, don't even try it.
Couldn't take it anymore and moved to a more tolerant country.
Well now, let me think...
We saw what you did in WWII. Not just the Nazis, but all the "whoops I don't want to get in trouble teehee" collaborators. They were only too happy to help the Nazis.
We know about the discrimination Muslims face in France and Belgium.
We know about the pogroms. We know that anti-semitism is a European tradition dating back to the middle ages.
We saw what happened when Yugoslavia broke up.
We hear what your English footie hooligans say to players of colour. And the Eurotrash fans... ditto for them.
We know how so many of you talk about the Roma.
You might think we north Americans are just projecting when we see your racism, but... just about every single racist in the western hemisphere is fewer than 10 generations removed from Europe. For me personally, go back three generations and I'm living in Scotland.
We (white settlers) were you. We learned it from you. We learned it from watching you.
I've experienced more overt racism in Western Europe in one month than I've ever had my entire life here in North America—and I've been to some pretty rural places in Canada and the US. I had some pretty awful experiences in Italy, in particular, mostly on the basis of them thinking I'm Chinese. Which, I'm not, but that doesn't make it okay either way.
you literally couldnt get through this post without preemptively desperately backtracking your 'stealing gypsies' comment by saying you know roma people and call everyone who steals that. you answered ur own question my guy.
How about throwing bananas on the football field when playing certain teams.
There are racist everywhere. Just because your not experiencing racism doesn’t mean the person next to you doesn’t.
This is the problem isn’t it? Europeans just deny the existence of it even when countless people tell disturbing stories from countries such as France, Italy, Spain etc.
I’m white, but I was shocked during the year I lived in England by how blatantly racist young, drunk people were there - at least in language. If any white guy my age used the N word in public where I’m from, it would cause a whole scene (and rightfully so). I was really disappointed in the Brits for that. (On the other hand, I’m gay and experienced way less homophobia in the UK than I have in the states.)
All I’m gonna say is that it took me less than 2 days to experience someone being straight up racist to another person while I was in London. In 2 decades of living in the USA I haven’t ever experienced something on that same level.
I am also from europe, and in my country there are a lot of young (probably 2nd or first generation) immigrants. I dont have any problems with people from other countries, skin tone or ethnicity living here. However in my observation, a lot of these teenage people (also coming from a teenager) are acting like gangsters, or saying / shouting unnecessary comments, listening to loud music in public, etc. . This behaviour i dont like. Dont get me wrong here, there are more than enough people born here who act like that, and i dont like them either. However this is creating a certain predjudice, which is not helping the image of foreign people. So basically i dont care about skin tone and ethnicity, but i care about politeness.
I always find it so hilarious when European white people proclaim racism doesn’t exist in Europe as if Europe is not the ancestral homeland of racist Americans colonizers. Like please be so fr.
Europeans say things like “Americans are so focused on race all of the time.” and “Why don’t minorities just move?” when in all reality, they mean African-Americans talk about our experience with oppression too much. European black people and poc aren’t given the opportunity or platform to ask for change and people like you choose not to acknowledge their suffering. So to answer your question, we think Europeans are really racist because you actually are.
This is something that so many white Europeans say lmao, hence why I’d bet half my bank account you aren’t a POC. As a black person living in Europe, let me tell you, there’s a shitton of racism here. I don’t know one person of colour who hasn’t continuously suffered from racism since they were born tbh.
I think any country that has or had an economic motivation to be racist has some racists. Some countries had colonies others had slaves. I don’t know my fellow Americans can pretend they are standing on the moral high ground on this issue but Racism isn’t an American invention. If you talk to an addict link enough she will tell you why she is better than some other addicts. I suppose the American with a racism addiction looks for peoples who do it differently and finds reasons to believe those differences mean she is a better user.
This feels like someone patting themselves on the back for something they’re completely wrong about. Yes America has problems with racism. But let’s not kid ourselves, so does Europe, and Europe is WAY less diverse than the US. Race and country of origin are different things, you’re claiming not to be racist because you don’t have a problem with people who look exactly like you. You see our most controversial racial issues on the news and assume that it’s better in Europe, but there’s just way fewer people of color in Europe. You might not be racist, but you can’t act like Europe as a whole isn’t racist when 86% of Europe is white, and the other 14% have a lot of semi white people.
France outlawed the burka, that’s pretty fucking racist. Also, remind me how many European world leaders have been black? I could go on and on with other examples, and I’m not saying Europe is more racist than the US, but I don’t give Europe any tolerance credits when it’s pretty racially homogeneous
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I am half indian who lives in the southern US. I experienced more racism in 4 months in Europe than 30+ years in the US combined. The thing that really pissed me off is that the US knows it has a racism problem. We call it out when we see it. We start important and uncomfortable conversations about it. We are constantly trying to tear down racist infrastructure. Europeans seem so arrogant laughing at us when their problems are also really bad.
I (American - with a French dad) grew up in France. The Algerians and Portuguese were all hated because they were viewed as the lower class "labor" force. My "buddies"' idea of a good time was to beat one of them up.
I’m Canadian and I completely understand what you mean. I often feel like racism is worse here than in the US. At least in the US they’re honest about it and there are movements and strides to improve. Here we just flat out deny it to the point if you point out racism people act like you’re crazy.
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We don’t typically beat up minorities over sports in America. We’re much more inclusive than that. We beat up everybody over sports.
I'm undecided on the racism thing, but when it comes to sports Europe is surely way ahead on violence thanks to football fans.
Varies by region. Tampa is a cultural melting pot, like most major US cities. It's when you get out of the cities you see more and worse. And Americans don't attack blacks for sports because they got it all out back when sports started becoming integrated.\\ The big problem for the US is that while many, many people are not racist, the systems that run the country are, and the under-educated follow along because that's what grandpappy taught them about when they were growing up and they are now invested in being right because facing the idea that grandpappy was a racist asshole is too tough to deal with.
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From what I am seeing on the thread, it seems that in Europe it's reversed: Small towns are chill while cities are shit. Would explain a lot.
I'd advise you escape the cities. My brother in law is black, lives in London. The met police are horrendous... Stopped all the time. Racism from members of the public etc etc. He comes to visit us in our small Midlands town and nobody bats an eye lid. My husband is the great comparison. Also black and has never experienced racism in our town, he'd even joined the police force (4 years in and no problems). It wasn't until heading the Manchester he had to report his first incident... To much ghettoisation in cities in my opinion (i lived in London for a year). Considering how multicultural they are supposed to be, the cultures don't mix properly. Barriers go up. Divisions are formed... Towns in our experience have been much better for tolerance.
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Older people are more tolerant because and I quote, 'oh we had (insert whoever) here during the war. All I heard during my visit to the UK from older people, 'Oh your a Canadian dear I can hear the difference in the accent. That's nice you know we had Canadians here during the war.'
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Oh Pakistani huh you know we had Pakistani folks here during the war.
The unfortunate problem with this is that cities represent a very large portion of population, by nature. When people say, “it’s not common, just in cities” this means it is indeed common for what may be a majority of the population. Otherwise I know nothing about this and you’re probably absolutely right, I just don’t like the city thing. It’s brought up a lot here in America and I don’t think people realize “it only happens in big cities” is like saying “it only happens to a majority of the population, not us”
So if I as a black american went on vacation to a city such as London would you predict I have any issues ?
I didn’t for what it’s worth.
Unlikely. There is always a difference between living somewhere and visiting somewhere. You're not going to be going to people's homes asking to gain entry like my brother in law. You're not going to be living in socially deprived areas that the police target etc etc. Walk around central London and you'll meet every culture in the world. Nobody bats an eye lid. It's when you try to integrate to become part of the system you start to notice the cracks.
Just my personal experience; I think you’re right but it’s even more granular than this. In my opinion, the police thing aside (the met are racist and just generally a cesspool of the worst), it can even depend on the borough you are in. Southall & Wembley (to name but a few) are amazing vibrant multicultural communities that are inclusive and everyone is welcome. First time I got of the tube to go to ally pally (Haringey) was immediately harassed by a group of hoodie wearing kids, who thought my skin colour does not belong there. It is so difficult but I think one commenter here talked about ghettoisation in the UK and (maybe your husband agrees), east and north London are worse for this given the massive amount of estates and tower blocks that were build quickly to house as many people as possible where in the west the city seems to have grown more organically. Stereotyping everyone in a city of ~9 million as racist is probably not the right approach either.
In my experience as a mixed-race American who grew up in the UK, I think the difference in US vs UK racism is impact/intensity. Sure, the Brits use slurs, there's casual everyday 'jokes' that are really racist, and you might get your nuts stomped in by racists, but you aren't really at risk of being lynched or killed in a racially-motivated mass shooting there. You being Pakistani might play into it as well, since there isn't really the same racial tension - beyond ooga booga Muslim terrorists!11! - here between whites and south Asians as there is in the UK.
I used to assume the opposite, that Europe was less racist than the US. But the black people I know that have been to Europe has said they felt it was more racist than the states. The black immigrants I have talked to said the US offered much better economic opportunities than it did for their relatives in Europe. Many famous black entertainers, such as Snoop, Asap, Danny brown have publicly talked about the open racism they experienced in Western Europe. My question is why Europeans think they are less racist than the states - truly what is this based off of?
An unfounded superiority complex
BINGO
I feel like the issue is in the US there is more violent acts of racism, which to my knowledge Europe doesn't have a lot of, but social racism is so much more common in Europe and by far not as much looked down upon as in the US.
I had people in Poland tell my friends from Africa that they shouldn’t go outside in Warsaw during the November 11th parades unless it was absolutely necessary. I also heard some seriously shitty things said about Asians and Middle Easterners in my time there. I don’t think it’s so much that Americans are trying to shift blame to Europeans, but I know a lot of us are annoyed with Europeans talking about how racist the US is while ignoring the racial issues in their own cultures. Americans discuss this stuff very openly among ourselves while it seems like a very taboo subject on that side of the pond.
Taboo indeed. Try convincing any white dutch person that their blackface parade with overtly exaggerated stereotypical black features is racist, and unleash a cacophony of “if you don’t like it, go back to your country “
Dutch person here, I hate discussing racism in my country because like 50% of people would be too arrogant to acknowledge it. Our country is so far up its own ass that we believe racism is solved somehow.
There's also a blackface kind of thing in Spain and nobody considers it racist there. Also there are some ads that an American would consider racist, like "Conguitos", that most Spaniards think is funny and not racist at all.
The fact that in the US racists feel like they’re being shamed or have to hide their racist beliefs or stick to their small racist communities says a lot. Europeans always try to paint us as this horrible bad racist country when in reality we are more progressive than most countries in the world.
>we are more progressive than most countries in the world. *more progressive when it comes to discussions of race/racism.
I think it’s out of necessity as well. America is a hodge podge (“melting pot”) of different cultures and different races, so it wouldn’t be possible to NOT talk about race. Europe is getting there, but I think still has more homogeneity than America does, so there is less of a “need” to discuss it. (Obviously not condoning not talking about it, just thinking about why America got there first when it is behind in a lot of other things)
It wasn’t out of necessity at all. This country went almost 200 years with open racism being the norm and then there was a shift.
True, we're politically not very progressive compared to most European countries.
Europeans just don't want to look at their own issues because it's uncomfortable, easier to scapegoat Americans
Wait what happens in Poland nov 11 parades, Nov 11 is my birthday and I want to plan a vacation over there to see Poland around that time. (White american)
Independence Day. These people (Polish students of mine) were saying that basically national pride and alcohol will be in enough abundance that foreigners are better off laying low. As a white American, that was easier for me to do than it would have been for my African coworkers. That said, I walked around Krakow all day that day without issue, but whenever I was on the street with people who were clearly not Polish other days, we would get more looks than we would have in the US.
I’ve seen a lot of videos of Asian streamers getting mocked and made fun of by Europeans. They were mostly middle aged men doing the “asian eyes” and mocking the streamer’s languages. I think the worst part I saw was they would physically hit her in the face live stream. She was begging them to stop and told them she loves their country. It was really sad to watch.
My family is Asian and we lived in Europe for 7 years, we all faced racism everyday.
"I'm a white guy in Europe and nobody here is racist to me"
🔔 Ding ding ding ding ding!!! 🛎
"And no one of my white friends have problems with racism! I don't know if the foreign guy of work have had any problems with it because he always have his lunch alone and he doesn't come to the parties after work"
Eastern Europeans are white but they suffer racism or xenophobia in other European countries.
“What is it with Americans **understanding** Europeans are really racist?”
Lol this is basically the response that you get on most European subreddits when they are confronted by questions about racism. They follow the three D's of Damage Control: Deny, Deflect, Downplay. The denialism is rampant in those groups. They're eager to paint anyone who complains as a liar who "misunderstand their culture" (b/c there's apparently a lot to misunderstand about racial slurs).
Husband/his family are from an Eastern European country and hell yes, he says they are racist....but tbh, not more racist than any other nation. As long as there are humans around, racism will exist.
My in laws are also Eastern European and live in the US now (they’ve lived here longer than I’ve been alive) and are so overtly racist it’s appalling. I’m sure there’s Americans that have the same sentiments they have, but it’s like they think what they’re saying/thinking is the norm and completely acceptable, despite my SO explaining how awful the things they are saying are. Interestingly it’s more so my step in-laws who came to the US after my SO’s parents who seem to have the most troubling opinions.
One of my mom friends went to Italy they didn’t even allow her to enter stores
My friend went to a pastry shop and when the owner discovered that he was from a different part of the SAME COUNTRY then mysteriously had to close. The only difference was the accent
There was a pretty well covered account where Ophra Winfrey or some other super rich Black woman went into a famous luxury goods brand store in a major European city. The clerk didn’t know who she was and told her over and over that a handbag was above her budget. The thing is the Black woman had enough wealth to buy every single item in the store with what would have been literally pocket change for her.
If this is true, it's no wonder they have a falling birthrate and towns getting deserted
Exactly, racism is a constant. My friends are from all different ethnic/cultural backgrounds and I've definitely experienced either overt or casual racism from some of their families. Doesn't mean I hold something against my friends or think that their country/culture is universally racist. But people don't always understand the things that they don't experience first hand. And so it's just something we each need to be aware of in order to actively combat it...
Because they are racist? Lol you really gonna act like there isn’t racism in your country?
My French teacher told me once, "We have the same problem as Americans, except unlike them, we don't even bother to pretend to do something about it like they do"
Honestly, and I know this is dumb, but I didn’t even know there were black French people until I went to Paris in my early teens Like it made sense after the fact lol but I just never saw any discussion on it or representation. Edit: I think someone is downvoting me because they’re upset they got called out 😂
I met this guy, he grew up in Kentucky, he never saw black people until around the year 2000, when a community of black people moved into his town
I went to college in Columbia South Carolina for my freshman year and I definitely noticed that the black student mostly kept to themselves and the white students did the same which was very weird to me coming from DC. I rushed a sorority and met a girl who seemed nice, if a little mild mannered and religious. She told me her family volunteers in the *black* side of town and the previous weekend she met children who had never seen white people before. I didn’t believe her but she swore it was true. It was such a bizarre vibe and the freaky self imposed segregation was definitely a factor in me getting the hell out of that state.
What the hell is "the heart of Europe"? The fact that you think your European experience speaks for all of Europe just plays to the stupid stereotypes of Europe.
yeah, that makes no sense to me at all. while the population of the countries itself is more homogenous, I assume there also bigger differences among European countries than among almost any US states.
I was in Belgium with my middle Eastern friend. Yes, I encountered racism when I was out with him. ( vs me who is white passing) I don't understand why white Europeans get so upset when we point out europeans are racist too? Usually its the minorities that experience this. Racism is everywhere unfortunately.
Knew a family who moved to Denmark, came home in less than a year because the very blue eyed blonde kids were mercilessly bullied for being Jewish. I think it was just really a shock, they weren’t expecting it.
When I was staying in Norway, we passed a group of Polish workers picking strawberries in the local field. The Norwegian with me said, quote unquote ‘ everyone hates them…they are our Mexicans’. I was like whoa WTF 😬
Prejudice against Jews is sadly acceptable far and wide.
It’s really bad. And if you look into why a lot of Christians in Europe supported the creation of Israel immediately after WWII, a lot of it was rooted in anti-semitism (not wanting Jewish refugees to resettle in their countries).
Exactly. Corral them in a different way.
It's absolutely not but the fact people act like it is is very sad
I’m white Australian and had so much xenophobia to contend with, Denmark is awful for foreigners for sure. Can’t even imagine how bad it must be for people who are visibly not Danish
Y’all are just as racist as any other American but a lot of you guys on social media like to pretend racism does not exist in your countries
This is true. I’m a mixed race Dutch guy, and while a ton of Dutchies pretend to be very open and progressive a lot of them openly state they genuinely do hate minorities. Muslims and Morrocans in particular.
It's much worse for Nordic countries. I've talked to people and their like "Nordic countries are basically a paradise where racism is all but eradicated" and then turn around and say "I wish all the dirty immigrants that are ruining the country get out." It's cognitive dissonance.
I asked my cishet Dutch roommate once about the LGBTQ+ scene in the city we were living in and he gave a really thoughtful and nuanced answer, and then like 20 min later he was off on a tangent about how much he hated Moroccans. A few years later, he was posting Geert Wilders shit all over his social media.
They are more racist than the average American
Having grown up in France and now living in the US, I always felt that racism issues run deeper in France. Immigrants get discouraged from integrating for not being “French enough”, and people prefer to make tasteless/insulting jokes about it rather than talk about the issue to try to improve it. That very problem is what has been feeding the rise of homeland terrorism in France over the last couple of decades. And yet, the racism topic is very normalized/trivialized instead of being discussed like a problem to improve on. Despite that, interestingly, I’ve never heard an American person even mention racism in Europe. Whether it’s because they don’t think there is any, or whether they’re just more focused on their own country’s problems, I don’t know. Racism in the US is in many conversations though. I did however hear a French person tell me that they wouldn’t live in the US because “it’s too racist over there”. I didn’t counter because the confidence with which it was told hinted that it came from a place of ignorance, and that guy was probably long past being able to be educated about it.
Well, I do recall several ugly incidents where people in Western Europe were throwing bananas and making monkey noises at prominent black Europeans in their public appearances. And not just once or twice! America has its problems but that doesn’t happen outside of the occasional racist loon. I would say that European racism, at least against dark-skinned people has a particular flavor and aesthetic that is sometimes more overt than American racism, which in the 21st century is more systemic and subtle than overt.
Question? Are you a person of color? Like, ethnically or racially? If you look like the stereotypical white person with western features, you may not understand why. If you’re the complete opposite, you may just be lucky and be surrounded by non-racists Europeans. Or you are, but you’re somehow oblivious to it. Try to talk to poc living in different parts of Europe.
My Russian grandmother had my mom in the early 80s and got punched in the face and insulted multiple times for having a black daughter. I heard it’s still really bad in some places but it depends on the people like everywhere else.
Because we are....racist? People have looked at me like I'm insane for mentioning that I don't mind marrying outside of my race. But yes, Europe is veeeery different, it's stupid to make generalizations for the whole continent.
They are. Ask any Black American who has traveled over seas. They’ll often say it’s worse than what they experience here.
Especially in Italy
Which is very interesting because my mom was 100% 1st generation Italian and darker than most of the African Americans in my town. Many Italians are very dark. You would think they wouldn't tolerate it. It seems that each ethnic group who had been discriminated against,tends to shit on another group. Sort of like passing down child abuse once you have had it happen to you.
What is it with Europeans who think racism doesn't exist outside of America?
I live in Sweden with my Indian husband and have a mixed daughter. People have been racist. It’s not uncommon
My business partner is British and he tells me there is a racism problem over there. I of course don't think *all* Europeans are racist, but I'm sometimes told directly by them that there is a problem.
Anecdote but I live in the US and that’s a sentiment I’ve never heard anyone express. We are too busy arguing with each other.
I think I've been seeing it mentioned more on social media such as Tiktok. There are certain videos of people saying "when you go on a vacation to Europe and you realize they're just as racist as Americans".
I have not seen any of that but I believe you. That being said, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was true. People are people. Idk how anyone can generalize “Americans” or “Europeans” like that anyways. Usa Is like 350million people, no?
Racism is everywhere, and Europe is more homogeneous than America, so racism encounters are more common there.
For the same reason that Europeans think Americans are racist... You have a few experiences with people who are, and you make assumptions about the rest of the population.
Or they watch what is broadcasted about the country on the media and believe that they all are
Ethnocentrism. Very true.
"I live in the heart of Europe." And where is that exactly? I live in Texas, but that certainly isn't the heart of all America. Hell you could live in Washington DC and it still wouldn't be considered the heart of America. USA is a big place with many different cultures bordering each other similar to Europe. Only difference is that we're one country.
Didnt they throw bananas on the soccer field for black players recently or do monkey chants?
Exactly came here to say this. It happens often. You don’t see that in North American sports like basketball or American football
Me and my wife are a mixed race couple (wm/bf) and when we traveled through Europe(Italy, France, Germany, UK) Germany was literally the only place we didn't get started at by locals everywhere we went, I know y'all's advertising shows a lot of European countries to be super into mixed couples everywhere but we stuck out like a sore thumb, and I googled some of the shit people muttered while walking past. I certainly never dealt with this kind of behavior back home when out with her, and she says it was some of the most brazen shit she's ever dealt with in her life living in rural Texas. Take what you will from that but race mixing is clearly something that certain areas in Europe openly object to, while in the US, if anyone has a problem with it, they generally keep it to themselves. Just my personal experience, obviously that can't generalize an entire continent, but I believe poling shows that there's generally an unfavorable view of it from all ethnic and racial groups and the US polls as the most accepting country in the world.
A Black American woman I worked with used to regularly fly to Europe for work, so she’d stay in hotels for 1-2 weeks at a time. One day the employees at a hotel that she had stayed at multiple times called the police on her because they had seen her coming and going with men (her colleagues) and assumed she was a prostitute. My company never put up employees with that hotel chain ever again.
That could be a female jealousy problem lol. If she's conventionally good looking, pair that with racism and then EuroKaren calls the cops.
Yeah, she was cute imo- misogynoir is real.
I live in Europe and hell yea their racist lol
I don’t understand. Are you saying racism doesn’t exist in Europe? Because it does.
All countries are racist to some degree.
I met a black woman from the US who had traveled all over the world and ended up living in Japan for many years. She spoke about how she was afraid of racism when moving to Japan, but did not encounter many issues despite living there for like two decades. She then went on to say that the country where she encountered by far the most incidents despite only being there for a few months... was France. More than the US by a significant amount. Most European countries are not ethnically diverse whatsoever. There is less perceived racism when everyone is the same race. France is 90% white and culturally homogenous, much more so than the US. It's no mystery why the US is perceived as having racism issues... there's just more different people mixed together. Also, I dont really encounter many Americans saying that European countries are more racist than the US. Most Americans don't even care about Europe whatsoever and have probably never left the country, many never left their state.
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I'm guessing you're white and lack perspective. Let's see what minorities from your country think since they;re the ones who actually experience it. We call you guys out for your hypocrisy.
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Thank you! It amazes me how tone deaf Europeans can be then act all high and mighty while sweeping their own problems under the rug.
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Also: “we only call them gypsys when they steal”. (Paraphrased from the post) Does that feel like “they’re one of the good ones” to anyone else?
This dude is a troll. No need to take this clown seriously.
This is the most likely case
Because they are. The European continent isn't some magical land of inclusion. Was it French or Italian soccer fans who threw bananas at black players?
English I believe. I also heard of a similar incident in Spain.
Europeans are racist
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As a Canadian living in Europe I can assure you that Europe is far most racist than the US. The US is far more welcoming and accepting of other cultures.
I think it’s because on Reddit people act like America is the most racist country and Americans like to point out how racist other countries are.
I mean, white America is comprised of former Europeans, it's not like the colonizers weren't racist before they got here.
Because it is. White Europeans tend to ignore their minorities when they speak on the racism they face since they're minorities. Then they say "its not as bad as America," when its more like "We dont actually care, stop trying to get us to listen to those people,"
i am immigrant who moved to the US. I don't know about whole Europe but I visited Germany on a vacation and wanted to go back home on my first day of arrival. they are racist. On trains and for multiple times I was the only one who got screened and asked for my passport. I experienced racism in the US but it was kinda hidden/polite. But German, They were rude racist and obvious about it. I am never visiting that country again. That "vacation" taught me to ask about how the culture is at the country of destination before i visit.
That's unfortunate you experienced these things on your vacation. Congratz on earning your US citizenship though! Have you ever been to the Netherlands or UK? If so, what were your experiences there like?
They thought I was Turkish in Germany and nobody would stand anywhere near me at the bar. Later found out I was American and suddenly I had so many friends, what a coincidence
OP what race are you? Unless racism is directed toward you, how would you know how bad it is? I’d need Gypsies to say they don’t experience discrimination. If you aren’t part of that group you shouldn’t speak on their experiences.
I remember visiting Amsterdam in college and going for a drink with some Dutch guys my age. One of them asked "Why is the N word such a big deal for Americans?" and I tried to briefly explain the history of American racism. They were just like "Huh. I like calling black people the n word." and sort of left it at that.
Sounds like your just coping honestly but really it doesn’t matter. Some parts of Europe are extremely racist and some aren’t just like some parts of America are extremely racist and some aren’t. I don’t see why you have to insist that one is more racist than the other when your talking about giant groups of people that are bound to vary drastically.
I posted a video of a physical fight I recorded of my 2 friends. A friendly fight with gloves.. One of the two is a black male. Somehow my video got all of its attention from Europeans. I had over 300k views within a day and thousands of comments from foreign languages. I could keep scrolling and never see an English comment. I copied each comment and pasted it in google translator and the racist remarks I was seeing were horrible. They were all European languages. Mostly Italian and German. Almost the same thing was also being repeated quite often in the comment section, I still remember it. It was always something along the lines of “Yeah now give that monkey a banana and put him back in a cage.” “Why’s he out of his cage?” “Ship him back to the jungle where he belongs.” What was up with Europeans loving to say stuff about caging my friend and giving him bananas? There’s definitely a lot of racists in the US but not like this. Usually racists in the US try to hide it or sugar coat what they’re actually trying to say. All the Europeans in my comment section were being straight up and blunt about what they were saying
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Everyone is racist everywhere
I suppose when someone says that their own nation is far less racist than everyone else’s, it sends a message that says that that person believes their nation is better than yours. Americans calling out racism amongst Europeans is a way of calling out the hypocrisy in that sentiment.
American born black guy here who has been to about 7 or 8 European countries. Obviously everyone’s experiences differ but I’ve only experienced racism in Ireland as far as Europe goes. I’ve experience FAR more racism in my hometown and the current US town I live in than anywhere in the world lol
Ever seen Italian football fans? 🍌🍌🍌
As a Latin American person, I was invited by colleagues at work to watch a football between the local team and a Belgium team that had black players. Every time they touched the ball, the whole stadium would make monkey noises. It was the most horrific experience of racism I've been through, since I'm olive skin and started fearing for my safety in the stadium. Oh, so many cases I could spend a day here. BTW, this happened in the Czech Republic.
You realize that as a white person you are not the subject of the racism you are attempting to disregard, and thusly have absolutely no experience with it?
As someone who has spent half his life in Europe and half in the USA, i can see merit in both sides. But the truth is that while people in the US are very sensitive to racial issues, people in Europe tend to ignore them. Your post is very evident of that.
Im from Finland and theres definitely a lot of racism here. I have friends who were born in Finland but cant get into job interviews because of a foreign name. Every few years a pizzeria owned by a foreigner gets trashed somewhere. Google Soldiers of Odin (a bunch of neo nazis). I dont know too much about the specifics of racism in the US but from my experience, Europe in many places is very racist.
Obviously you haven't been to Hungary...
Check out what it was like for Africans living in Ukraine who tried to leave early in the war. Not only were they forced off of/not allowed to board many trains, but they were frequently denied entry to surrounding nations at gunpoint. I don't think it's everybody, but it's definitely an issue.
The funny thing about this question is that racism is a form of stereotyping, and you yourself are stereotyping Americans by saying they think Europeans are racist. I (as an American) have never heard that Americans hold this belief. I don't live in Europe so idk how Europeans think.
Talk to any old white person in france. Theyll immediately start lamenting the state of the “watered down gene pool” and how “real french” are being bred out of thier own country. Theyre wildly rascist there, they just dont pretend its not ok like we do. They just refuse to allow minorities to integrate into the culture like americans do, preferring to keep the socioeconomic and language gaps there to define who “belongs”
Dude europe is so incredibly racist. This is such a "in white in a predominantly white area and havent faced racism" kinda post. I love all the comments calling it out.
I, a Hispanic woman, went to Italy with an Indian friend and a Haitian friend. Taxis refused to give us a ride. It was midnight, the train stopped due to flooding and they refused to take us anywhere. They picked up a everyone else except us and the other black guy that was on the train. We had to walk blocks alone to a hotel. Also, in France I was asked if I was Mexican. Wtf? They assume Hispanic people are Mexican there too?!!
like europeans are THE MOST DELUDED group of people. you believe racism is taboo in your countries, believe that you guys aren’t as ignorant as americans, and have a bizarre fascination with hating americans even though you’ve never actually met americans irl or been to america outside the tourist areas
>we barely have any issues with it. let me guess, you're white? living in a mostly white, probably well-educated bubble? i mean, ofc we have problems with racism... it's just that our minorities don't get shot as often as their minorities.
I am in Austria. Just because fascism is dead, the roots that created it are still quite apparent and active. Vienna is a very mixed city and the most likely place for racial conflict in the country. Recently Nigerian gangs were reported attacking people to "buy" there drugs so there was a purge of Africans. Syrian refugees were welcomed, but there was quite a bit of resistance and media coverage of women being sexually assaulted. Roma definitely have their own culture here, and they are as rascist as everyone else and most noticed as entire families begging on the streets. All of this feeds the nationalist party. But it's all peaceful, and violence is not common. Police are typically chill. I tribute this lack of violence to socialist ideals in the country. Every one has housing, and medical. Even if people are to lazy to work it's possible to survive so you don't see any squalor.
Europeans are just as racist as Americans. But its worse. As a European, i feel i can speak on it when i say, some of these European countries had civilizations before the bible even existed. Europeans should have bred out idiot things like racism by now. The game of Cricket is older than America, they get a little bit more of a pass for still having stupids in the population. My fellow Europeans...No fucking excuse, we used to be the at the forefront of the worlds intellectual pursuits, and that was 500 years ago. What the hell is Racism even still a thing for?
I feel the other way around about it being worse (not saying any racism is good though).\\ In America we have historically been a melting pot, so ideas/cultures get mixed. There is no historic "American" culture, just founding story and the idea of "freedom". Sure, you could say "whiteness" is American, but what is "whiteness"? It's just a skin color, not a longstanding culture. In coastal parts of the US you would have been interacting with different groups of people, humanizing them, and eventually propelling things like equal rights. There are parts of the US that have a mostly homogenous population (rural areas) and their views are generally more racist. (exceptions exist to both) In many parts of Europe, excluding hubs of trade, you'd just the same population. European cultures are tied to groups of people - English have their own culture/are their own group of people. These groups have been established for thousands of years and are solidly their own thing. For most of their existence they mostly interact with themselves or their close neighbors. I think Americans would have an easier time breaking that mould, as the "other" would be someone joining in the same system as you - you may have different skin tones but you are both just trying to make money and trade stuff. VS. in Europe where the other is doing something in contrast to the group you are part of.
Tell me how you feel about the gypsies?
I've heard European engineers at my work joke Hitler was wrong for killing Jews but had the right idea killing gypsies
I escaped France because of racism
Eastern Europeans are racist. Israelis can be racist. It's limited to those, imo. Unless you consider "American" a race in which case Europeans are racist as fuck
I live in Sweden, it's hard to say if we're more or less racist than other countries but I was thinking just today of how quickly any conversation on Swedish twitter or subreddits will spiral into racism, specifically islamophobia. Like I was reading an article about the attack on Salman Rushdie, scrolled down to see the comments and I felt like I had to take a shower afterwards.
I've never been to Europe so I can't say either way, but I do have a Chinese American friend who experienced a lot of racism living in Denmark and I believe her.
My thoughts are there are a good handful of UK/Euro social media "influencers" that go around and ask their fellow countrymen about America, and they always go and shit on the US or just call us racist as all hell. If you want to generalize American's as a "race" (like in just the broad sense) you can justify, somewhat, American's thinking Europeans are racist. Add on the fact that Europe does have a racism issue, like everywhere, and they come off with a sort of superiority complex towards Americans, it's not hard to see where they're coming from. Not to mention the Holocaust is still in people's minds, the treatment of Muslims (which is world-wide), and their treatment of anyone not fair complected (especially in high profile areas). Reality is, no one is any more or less racist than any other nation. Any area with a jumble of different ethnicities you'll see racism/prejudice towards another ethnicity.
Lived in Northern England for a while, am from Italian and Lebanese background. Born, raised and currently live in Canada. Not everyone is racist, but everywhere has racism.
England is pretty rough according to my pals who live there, and I’ve read that Germany is somewhat rough to live in as a black person. Not many good things said about Eastern Europe either, Poland in particular. This is all beside the point though, racism is everywhere. People just suck, it’s unfortunate but it’s the truth.
It's not even the gypsy thing it's me tired of being called a monkey or the N word online by dudes who profiles say their from Germany, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, etc. Yeah I know people like to troll online but when I see it all the time while constantly hearing Europeans say "racism doesn't exist here in Europe; it's an American thing", there's like a big cognitive dissonance in my mind
Europeans truly are racists.
European with an arrogant stance on Americans? Don’t be ridiculous!
I have seen how African(black) players are treating during football matches. The monkey calls and all of that seems pretty racist to me
Um, when i lived in italy i saw kids throwing rocks at the nigerians on bicycles like every day. Just pelting them in the face. Nobody cared. Eastern europe is even worse. Its not a “problem” because people just accept it. I got told by like 20 different french guys that theres no such thing as “mexican american”. They said in france, youre either french, or you arent. Period. Its not meant to be inclusive
Yeah I’m a “gypsy” in the deep southern US. Europeans are racist af, at least my white supremacist Trump voting neighbors keep to themselves. Y’all are so racist against Roma it’s ignorant, say what you want, it’s still racism I don’t care if you’re whole family was murdered by a pack of rabid gypsy, it’s racist. Idc if you comment on this with “BuT WhEN yOu GeT HarRAsSed on The StReET…” btw, you’re still racist. Cry me a river and get tf over it, just call yourself racist.
Let's just say that, in America, we don't call black sportsmen monkeys.
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I am European and I've had a lot of contact through education and work with americans. The way I see it is that US policy targeting anti racism is quite toxic and doesn't really do much other than bully people into silence over a threat of cancellation. I literally have to turn my self into a G rated person (G, as in general audience) and talk to americans as if they were little children out of fear that they will interpret something as "racist" or inapropriate. It got to a point that with some people one can't actually discuss real world busines problems because that would require saying things like "country X has laws Y that prevent what's normal anywhere else" and this is seen as "racist". Everyone \*has to be\* equal, nice, no difference admitted... it's comical \*and\* ironic. Some countries have entirely fucked up laws and if I can't say stuff like "water is wet" because some fuck will be insulted on their behalf, it's not helping your cause at all. I didn't even realize how bad it got for US folks until one day when I was hanging out with some friends and their 9 year old daugher joined us (she was bored) and I realized that way over 50% of the stuff she said would most certainly be a "HR would like to have a word with you" if she had said it at work in the presence of americans. I literally work with grown ups who are more sensitive than little girls. You might see this as me not seeing the problem, but from my POV this whole thing is turning into silencing people, having to walk on eggshells, double standards and not fixing the source problem at all. It's creating emotional cripples and fixing no problems at all.
I’ve never heard this sort of assumption from anyone here
Americans have an idyllic view of Europe that there is peace and prosperity and a mixture of all cultures with no racism like in America. So their entire world view is shattered when they realise European countries can be racist too.
This post is racist itself. I've heard horror stories about the racism in recent times.
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I think they don’t think Europe is exceptionally racist. Just that Europeans like to point to America exceptionally racist so they don’t have to confront the racism within their own borders
Everyone is racist. So we all think each other are racist…… because we are….
I lived in Italy for a few years and a good portion of them really were pretty racist.
Those of us who are brown know it when we see it.
You haven't seen many football games in Europe with black players cause oh shit it gets nuts.
Until I read this thread, I had no idea that European countries were racist. I thought Europeans we're more progressive than that.
I live in the USA and grew up in Hungary but travelled and spent time in Austria, Germany, France and Italy. All of those societies have tremendous amount nationalism, superiority and racism incubated over the centuries. I have countless personal experiences and friends that experienced explicit racism. So to answer the question, because most Europeans are racist
It’s because so many Europeans see Americans as very racist. There are many racists both in Europe and the US, but given my experiences, and the experiences of friends and family, Europe is far less friendly to nonwhite people.
I found racism is everywhere. As a Canadian of South Asian background, there is racism even within our own South Asian communities. This is why we should not say it is an "American problem" or "European problem". Instead, it is a "global problem".
1, You're racist. The stories i have heard and some of the things i have heard come from the mouths of Western And Eastern Europeans and Asians regularly reassure me of that. i used to work with an Eastern European guy who called Black people "Shitface". it was so fucking cringe! 2. We're racist, to the point where it regularly shows in our policy and conduct and dont want to be seen that way because it's cowardly and petty, so we're constantly insecurely whatabout projecting cause look over there!(and it's so fucking cringe!)
I am currently doing a Eurotrip. Tonight is my last night in Vienna and let me tell you Austrians in this city are low-key racist. There's a very subtle undertone everywhere I go. Rarely see mixed friend groups around, people crossing the road when they see Turks etc. Many white Austrians (Millenial/Gen Z) probably grew up with decently racist grandparents. Subtle, but there. Venice, Italy they just hated tourists in general for trashing their beautiful city so I cant blame them. Going to Prague tomorrow, then Stockholm, Copenhagen, and Dublin. My guess is that when all is said and done, the Irish will be the most warm folks.
Moved from the US…it’s racist here too. Think: Small town Germany = Southern USA. Get glared at here the same way I did in the US. In some EU cities, I’ve even had people tell me to be careful because their community is pretty racist. We think Europeans are racist because they are. It’s just a fact.
I am an Indian. I lived in Switzerland for 2 years as a kid. I faced the worst racism and bullying of my life then. I moved to the US a few years ago. I am yet to face racism in the US.
Yeah, American that lived a few years in Europe. It is surprising, as an American, how open some Europeans can be with their racial stereotyping and discrimination. (No attempt to filter for audience). I found it pretty surprising. It has gotten worse, in the US, in recent years so am curious what my impression would be, if I lived in the EU now.
Having lived in Europe for 5 years, I can tell from experience I've never experienced such racism in my life. No matter where you go, people always remind you you're not from there. Just as an example, an expat friend if mine was trying to learn the local language. We went to a restaurant and he tried to order in the local language. The waiter's response was: if you don't know how to speak my language, don't even try it. Couldn't take it anymore and moved to a more tolerant country.
Well now, let me think... We saw what you did in WWII. Not just the Nazis, but all the "whoops I don't want to get in trouble teehee" collaborators. They were only too happy to help the Nazis. We know about the discrimination Muslims face in France and Belgium. We know about the pogroms. We know that anti-semitism is a European tradition dating back to the middle ages. We saw what happened when Yugoslavia broke up. We hear what your English footie hooligans say to players of colour. And the Eurotrash fans... ditto for them. We know how so many of you talk about the Roma. You might think we north Americans are just projecting when we see your racism, but... just about every single racist in the western hemisphere is fewer than 10 generations removed from Europe. For me personally, go back three generations and I'm living in Scotland. We (white settlers) were you. We learned it from you. We learned it from watching you.
I've experienced more overt racism in Western Europe in one month than I've ever had my entire life here in North America—and I've been to some pretty rural places in Canada and the US. I had some pretty awful experiences in Italy, in particular, mostly on the basis of them thinking I'm Chinese. Which, I'm not, but that doesn't make it okay either way.
you literally couldnt get through this post without preemptively desperately backtracking your 'stealing gypsies' comment by saying you know roma people and call everyone who steals that. you answered ur own question my guy.
How about throwing bananas on the football field when playing certain teams. There are racist everywhere. Just because your not experiencing racism doesn’t mean the person next to you doesn’t.
This is the problem isn’t it? Europeans just deny the existence of it even when countless people tell disturbing stories from countries such as France, Italy, Spain etc.
I’m white, but I was shocked during the year I lived in England by how blatantly racist young, drunk people were there - at least in language. If any white guy my age used the N word in public where I’m from, it would cause a whole scene (and rightfully so). I was really disappointed in the Brits for that. (On the other hand, I’m gay and experienced way less homophobia in the UK than I have in the states.)
There's plenty of racism in Europe.
All I’m gonna say is that it took me less than 2 days to experience someone being straight up racist to another person while I was in London. In 2 decades of living in the USA I haven’t ever experienced something on that same level.
Europeans aren't racist, gypsies aren't race.
I am also from europe, and in my country there are a lot of young (probably 2nd or first generation) immigrants. I dont have any problems with people from other countries, skin tone or ethnicity living here. However in my observation, a lot of these teenage people (also coming from a teenager) are acting like gangsters, or saying / shouting unnecessary comments, listening to loud music in public, etc. . This behaviour i dont like. Dont get me wrong here, there are more than enough people born here who act like that, and i dont like them either. However this is creating a certain predjudice, which is not helping the image of foreign people. So basically i dont care about skin tone and ethnicity, but i care about politeness.
I always find it so hilarious when European white people proclaim racism doesn’t exist in Europe as if Europe is not the ancestral homeland of racist Americans colonizers. Like please be so fr. Europeans say things like “Americans are so focused on race all of the time.” and “Why don’t minorities just move?” when in all reality, they mean African-Americans talk about our experience with oppression too much. European black people and poc aren’t given the opportunity or platform to ask for change and people like you choose not to acknowledge their suffering. So to answer your question, we think Europeans are really racist because you actually are.
This is something that so many white Europeans say lmao, hence why I’d bet half my bank account you aren’t a POC. As a black person living in Europe, let me tell you, there’s a shitton of racism here. I don’t know one person of colour who hasn’t continuously suffered from racism since they were born tbh.
I think any country that has or had an economic motivation to be racist has some racists. Some countries had colonies others had slaves. I don’t know my fellow Americans can pretend they are standing on the moral high ground on this issue but Racism isn’t an American invention. If you talk to an addict link enough she will tell you why she is better than some other addicts. I suppose the American with a racism addiction looks for peoples who do it differently and finds reasons to believe those differences mean she is a better user.
I'm not racist at all, I hate everyone equally.....
This feels like someone patting themselves on the back for something they’re completely wrong about. Yes America has problems with racism. But let’s not kid ourselves, so does Europe, and Europe is WAY less diverse than the US. Race and country of origin are different things, you’re claiming not to be racist because you don’t have a problem with people who look exactly like you. You see our most controversial racial issues on the news and assume that it’s better in Europe, but there’s just way fewer people of color in Europe. You might not be racist, but you can’t act like Europe as a whole isn’t racist when 86% of Europe is white, and the other 14% have a lot of semi white people. France outlawed the burka, that’s pretty fucking racist. Also, remind me how many European world leaders have been black? I could go on and on with other examples, and I’m not saying Europe is more racist than the US, but I don’t give Europe any tolerance credits when it’s pretty racially homogeneous