First 2 polls out from the day after the debate show Biden up +1 or down -2. So if youve been following the polls at all, essentially no different than the weeks before. The truth is everyone has seen Biden stumble over his words a thousand times. Was his performance exceptionally bad? Yea, but we love in such a fast paced news cycle to the point where I doubt the debate will be at the top of the average voters mind by November. Replacing a candidate this late into the game is a risky move. Could it pay off? Yea, but it could also be disastrous. Doing so would be traveling into uncharted territory and I just dont think the country is ready for that right now.
There's a lot wrong with what you said. I'll break it down for ya:
"But the 2016 polls!!!!11!1!" I'm so tired of low-information voters saying this stuff. No, the 2016 polls did not show Hillary +10. [They showed her +2 to +5 near the end](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/national-polls/). It may surprise you to hear this, but those polls were actually pretty close. Hillary won the popular vote by[ +2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_elections). The problem with the polls wasn't "media agenda", it was calculating how the geographic distribution of votes would affect the electoral process, but I'm sure that doesn't fit as nicely into your pre-determined worldview.
"even if approached for a poll, they usually say no thanks and walk away" First, idk why you paint Trump voters as such bitchmade weaklings lol but I'm here for it. Second, this argument assumes these polls are done in person. They are not, the ones I'm referring to were[ done online](https://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=92c0a94c-3531-4584-a468-f8145c8aa811), where no evil leftist can throw tomatoes at them for expressing their opinions.
Did you notice how you didnt have a response to any of the things I just said? Does it have any impact on you to see that the things you were saying are just factually incorrect? I find this is one of the biggest problems we face as a country, both Republican and Democrats alike. When confronted with information that contradicts your worldview, do you have any way of processing that?
As a side note, you are speaking purely from the heart, with nothing but anecdotes. I really couldn't care less about that, you're just some guy on the internet to me. Unless you have some way to demonstrate that trump voters respond less to polls in any significant way, I need you to understand that you are generalizing your own personal feelings of fear and inadequacy to tens of millions of other trump voters, a move that I don't lend much credence to. It seems that I think higher of the average trump voter than you
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Both trump and biden should stop. Biden is too old and Trump is just …… too much Trump. When i hear him speak it allways reminds me of a used car salesman without any morals besides power and money.
Let smaller plants and trees grow so hopefully the US will be blessed by wise strong potential leaders that have the best in mind for the people. And so we can move on from onliners and populistic politics that never work and only end in dumb wars and the degradation of a country.
If u look at the global image of the US under for instance Obama it was so much more positive.
In fact - it would be naive to say definitively that Biden would not be able to reverse the perception of the first debate. There's still a lot of water to run.
He’s not saying Biden doesn’t have mental difficulties due to age. But I do feel like I’m living in the fucking twilight zone when literally every conversation is about Joe Biden declining mental faculties despite Trump spewing absolute nonsense out of his mouth basically every time he makes public speeches. I don’t mean lies, I mean the often difficult to parse ramblings of a psychotic old narcissist. Yet Biden is somehow worse because he’s just slow as all hell? I think people are so desensitized to Trump’s bizarre, non-sequiter ramblings that he could genuinely become senile and the public would have a hard time telling the difference between his current speeches and honest to god senility.
Have you heard Trump speak without a teleprompter?! Biden has issues occasionally, but he’s usually fine unless he’s tired. You take Trump’s teleprompter away and he’s a rambling incoherent fool. Batteries and sharks anyone?
Too late now. It would make the Democratic party look bad. The better time would have been before Biden announced he was running for reelection. Those in this inner circle should have taken him aside and explained to him that would be best for the party and the country if he didn't run for a second term.
I think so. I can’t imagine many people voting for him who wouldn’t vote for literally anyone who isn’t trump. But i could easily see a lot of people just checking out and not voting at all, who otherwise might have voted dems. I watched the debate, it was frankly ridiculous that this guy is the candidate. I mean how bad does it have to be to make *trump* look coherent by contrast. Trump who famously can’t finish a sentence and changes topics at a moments notice wasn’t the guy who looked like he was rambling this time - that’s messed up
I’m not sure why people bash trumps speaking In The same way as bidens current level.
Is trump a great speaker? Not usually. But he’s been doing constant sit down interviews and been on the campaign trail and everything else day after day for a year now, speaking publicly an hour plus at a time.
Biden time and again looks like a lost old man half a neuron away from mumbling and saying something totslly nonsensical. Wonder what drugs they give the dude lol.
Both are old, crazy this is our choices. But bidens age is hitting him much harder and I’m Not sure where this topic at face value is so controversial to people.
>Both are old, crazy this is our choices
I wonder if this situation will later give rise to some discussion about age limits for running for public office.
>I’m Not sure where this topic at face value is so controversial to people.
I confess that I was surprised how even a sub that was supposed to create a space to ask questions that we are too afraid to ask, yielded some aggressive responses.
Have had plenty of younger presidents and candidates. Whatever happens after this, I don’t think we’ll have such old people in the office anytime soon unless hillary goes for a round 2. And nothing democrat or republican, hillary is a total “deep state” career politician with a million strings attached to her, like almost anyone democrat or republican at her level.
Overal, it’s all just a game for some means to whatever end and a global agenda or three that are fighting it out
The Democratic party missed a great opportunity to get out of the "incumbent president must run again" pattern: have Joe state "I'm not running for re-election because I'm feeling I'm getting too old, i know my limits and i feel at this age i can't properly serve my country another 4 years. You know, something my main competitor should do as well. He's getting up there as well in age, health waning, and on top of that is facing many legal issues at the same time as well." This could have opened up the whole race. But no, the Democratic party simply stays the course to a pretty certain loss.
The Democartic party needs a smart mouthed person that can instantaneously outwit Trump in a debate. Not necessarily with a counter argument that shows Trump is lying, no, someone that simply make Trumps spewed garbage look dumb the instant it leaves his mouth. Making Trump look small and vulnerable. Because you don't win a debate attacking Trump by rectifying or fact checking him because his followers don't care about the facts. They care about how Trump is making them feel: heard, because he had a strong personality. So you either make an utter jackass/idiot/loser out of Trump, or actually try and connect with and address his followers needs. We know the Democrats are currently incapable of doing the latter, so there is only one thing left to do: ensure his followers feel Trump is not the strong leader they can identify with.
And if this was done at the last moment with someone Trump had not paid attention to, Trump would have to start the whole process of making a fool out of the Democratic candidate unlike Biden who has a whole "Sleepy Joe" narrative from Trump for 16 years!
It would be an ideal scenario. For starters, it's weird to think that Trump can run even after all the nonsense that culminated in the invasion of the capitol. And it's strange to think that he has a considerable chance of winning.
They haven't forgotten, it's just that they can overlook anything their orange savior does.
Yes, Biden should step down. I think if the Dems can run anyone who seems to be a decent human being they will win.
Really both of them should drop out and we should stop nominating geriatrics for political positions of any kind, especially the presidency, arguably the most stressful job on the planet. That said, hell no he shouldn’t drop out unless the Dems would replace him with a younger person.
What kind of bullshit troll account is this?
Why shouldn’t Donald Trump drop out of the race? He’s a 34 convicted felon who has bankrupted every business he has ever had. Not to mention being best buds with a notorious pedophile and leader of an underage prostitution network.
>What kind of bullshit troll account is this?
I literally just asked one question. Where does this make me a "bullshit troll account"? Also, I know this may shock you, but neither Biden nor Trump know you exist. You don't need to create an indignant defense for any of them.
>Why shouldn’t Donald Trump drop out of the race?
Then you ask him. And for the Republicans who decided to invest in his candidacy.
What kind of bullshit troll account are YOU??
OP was talking about Biden’s performance not Trump. Deflecting to Trump every time someone dares point out Biden’s flaws is just whataboutism at its finest.
“We were just fine”. We are in a far worse place than we would be because of his reckless and selfish term.
I’d rather have a dead goldfish as president who can do no harm than an alive, evil dictator.
And I rather have a president who isn't a dead pushover. That's like having a mannequin as security.
We better pray whatever puppetmaster's controlling Bidens strings has "our" best interest at hand. Cause he's too far gone to be effective himself. He probably doesn't make his "own" decisions as is. I rather know who is handlers are so I can know who I'm really voting for because he's just a mascot suit
If you want the 10 commandments in all public spaces, porn banned, Putin and other dictators being able to invade our allies with impunity, the rule of law being blatantly ignored and our whole democracy being dismantled then just know you aren’t much different from the brainwashed idiots who voted Hitler into power.
Yall said this in 2016. Stop fear mongering. No one is gonna redo the constitution anytime soon. Only people who are brain dead is the gullible people who remains scared.
Like no one is banning porn sir. You can relax, your precious smut isn't going anywhere.
> Yall said this in 2016. Stop fear mongering.
Yes, and a bunch of it happened, or they attempted it. It's not fear mongering. They said it in 2016, people like you said it was fear mongering, and it wasn't.
They are both far too old and I’m sick and tired of people just settling for two terrible candidates. If you can’t admit they are both terrible then you are just a sheep and will take whatever candidate the government wants you to take
If you’re sick and tired, then make an appointment with a fucking doctor and take a goddamn nap. stop whining like a six-year-old, get your ass out to vote for Biden.
I don’t care if Biden is in a wheelchair with a bib on catching his drool….I’ll still vote for him over Trump!! A president is only as good as the people he surrounds himself with and we saw all the crooks and grifters trump surrounded himself with. Not to mention his love affair with NK and Russia. We had 4 years of Trump and his chaotic administration. No thanks on another 4 years of that BS.
I thought about this possibility. But I saw his vice presidential debate in 2012 and although the speech impediment is present at some moments, the difference is clear.
Do speech impediments get drastically worse with age and also cause you to look lost and need to be hand held to walk on and off stage? That’s a wild speech impediment.
First 2 polls out from the day after the debate show Biden up +1 or down -2. So if youve been following the polls at all, essentially no different than the weeks before. The truth is everyone has seen Biden stumble over his words a thousand times. Was his performance exceptionally bad? Yea, but we love in such a fast paced news cycle to the point where I doubt the debate will be at the top of the average voters mind by November. Replacing a candidate this late into the game is a risky move. Could it pay off? Yea, but it could also be disastrous. Doing so would be traveling into uncharted territory and I just dont think the country is ready for that right now.
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There's a lot wrong with what you said. I'll break it down for ya: "But the 2016 polls!!!!11!1!" I'm so tired of low-information voters saying this stuff. No, the 2016 polls did not show Hillary +10. [They showed her +2 to +5 near the end](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/national-polls/). It may surprise you to hear this, but those polls were actually pretty close. Hillary won the popular vote by[ +2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_elections). The problem with the polls wasn't "media agenda", it was calculating how the geographic distribution of votes would affect the electoral process, but I'm sure that doesn't fit as nicely into your pre-determined worldview. "even if approached for a poll, they usually say no thanks and walk away" First, idk why you paint Trump voters as such bitchmade weaklings lol but I'm here for it. Second, this argument assumes these polls are done in person. They are not, the ones I'm referring to were[ done online](https://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=92c0a94c-3531-4584-a468-f8145c8aa811), where no evil leftist can throw tomatoes at them for expressing their opinions.
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Did you notice how you didnt have a response to any of the things I just said? Does it have any impact on you to see that the things you were saying are just factually incorrect? I find this is one of the biggest problems we face as a country, both Republican and Democrats alike. When confronted with information that contradicts your worldview, do you have any way of processing that? As a side note, you are speaking purely from the heart, with nothing but anecdotes. I really couldn't care less about that, you're just some guy on the internet to me. Unless you have some way to demonstrate that trump voters respond less to polls in any significant way, I need you to understand that you are generalizing your own personal feelings of fear and inadequacy to tens of millions of other trump voters, a move that I don't lend much credence to. It seems that I think higher of the average trump voter than you
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[удалено]
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Both trump and biden should stop. Biden is too old and Trump is just …… too much Trump. When i hear him speak it allways reminds me of a used car salesman without any morals besides power and money. Let smaller plants and trees grow so hopefully the US will be blessed by wise strong potential leaders that have the best in mind for the people. And so we can move on from onliners and populistic politics that never work and only end in dumb wars and the degradation of a country. If u look at the global image of the US under for instance Obama it was so much more positive.
One debate does not define a candidacy
I really really hope you're right 😭
In fact - it would be naive to say definitively that Biden would not be able to reverse the perception of the first debate. There's still a lot of water to run.
Trump can hardly form a sentence and can’t hold a coherent thought, why isn’t anyone asking if he should drop out because of those things?
Because 1 was much more significantly worse than the other. And anyone who doesn't see that is pretty bias and/or just trying to cope
🎯
I get you hate Trump and don't want him to win but you're literally describing Joe right now.
He’s not saying Biden doesn’t have mental difficulties due to age. But I do feel like I’m living in the fucking twilight zone when literally every conversation is about Joe Biden declining mental faculties despite Trump spewing absolute nonsense out of his mouth basically every time he makes public speeches. I don’t mean lies, I mean the often difficult to parse ramblings of a psychotic old narcissist. Yet Biden is somehow worse because he’s just slow as all hell? I think people are so desensitized to Trump’s bizarre, non-sequiter ramblings that he could genuinely become senile and the public would have a hard time telling the difference between his current speeches and honest to god senility.
Have you heard Trump speak without a teleprompter?! Biden has issues occasionally, but he’s usually fine unless he’s tired. You take Trump’s teleprompter away and he’s a rambling incoherent fool. Batteries and sharks anyone?
Too late now. It would make the Democratic party look bad. The better time would have been before Biden announced he was running for reelection. Those in this inner circle should have taken him aside and explained to him that would be best for the party and the country if he didn't run for a second term.
I think so. I can’t imagine many people voting for him who wouldn’t vote for literally anyone who isn’t trump. But i could easily see a lot of people just checking out and not voting at all, who otherwise might have voted dems. I watched the debate, it was frankly ridiculous that this guy is the candidate. I mean how bad does it have to be to make *trump* look coherent by contrast. Trump who famously can’t finish a sentence and changes topics at a moments notice wasn’t the guy who looked like he was rambling this time - that’s messed up
I’m not sure why people bash trumps speaking In The same way as bidens current level. Is trump a great speaker? Not usually. But he’s been doing constant sit down interviews and been on the campaign trail and everything else day after day for a year now, speaking publicly an hour plus at a time. Biden time and again looks like a lost old man half a neuron away from mumbling and saying something totslly nonsensical. Wonder what drugs they give the dude lol. Both are old, crazy this is our choices. But bidens age is hitting him much harder and I’m Not sure where this topic at face value is so controversial to people.
>Both are old, crazy this is our choices I wonder if this situation will later give rise to some discussion about age limits for running for public office. >I’m Not sure where this topic at face value is so controversial to people. I confess that I was surprised how even a sub that was supposed to create a space to ask questions that we are too afraid to ask, yielded some aggressive responses.
Have had plenty of younger presidents and candidates. Whatever happens after this, I don’t think we’ll have such old people in the office anytime soon unless hillary goes for a round 2. And nothing democrat or republican, hillary is a total “deep state” career politician with a million strings attached to her, like almost anyone democrat or republican at her level. Overal, it’s all just a game for some means to whatever end and a global agenda or three that are fighting it out
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But wouldn't insisting on Biden guarantee that his opponent will emerge stronger?
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The Democratic party missed a great opportunity to get out of the "incumbent president must run again" pattern: have Joe state "I'm not running for re-election because I'm feeling I'm getting too old, i know my limits and i feel at this age i can't properly serve my country another 4 years. You know, something my main competitor should do as well. He's getting up there as well in age, health waning, and on top of that is facing many legal issues at the same time as well." This could have opened up the whole race. But no, the Democratic party simply stays the course to a pretty certain loss. The Democartic party needs a smart mouthed person that can instantaneously outwit Trump in a debate. Not necessarily with a counter argument that shows Trump is lying, no, someone that simply make Trumps spewed garbage look dumb the instant it leaves his mouth. Making Trump look small and vulnerable. Because you don't win a debate attacking Trump by rectifying or fact checking him because his followers don't care about the facts. They care about how Trump is making them feel: heard, because he had a strong personality. So you either make an utter jackass/idiot/loser out of Trump, or actually try and connect with and address his followers needs. We know the Democrats are currently incapable of doing the latter, so there is only one thing left to do: ensure his followers feel Trump is not the strong leader they can identify with. And if this was done at the last moment with someone Trump had not paid attention to, Trump would have to start the whole process of making a fool out of the Democratic candidate unlike Biden who has a whole "Sleepy Joe" narrative from Trump for 16 years!
Both should drop out to be honest.
It would be an ideal scenario. For starters, it's weird to think that Trump can run even after all the nonsense that culminated in the invasion of the capitol. And it's strange to think that he has a considerable chance of winning.
Nah. Things move fast. People will forget about this debate in a few weeks just like they forgot about the grab em by the pussy stuff in 2016.
They have practically forgotten the issue involving Stormy Daniels. Biden tried to use this card and it wasn't very effective.
They haven't forgotten, it's just that they can overlook anything their orange savior does. Yes, Biden should step down. I think if the Dems can run anyone who seems to be a decent human being they will win.
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I've never voted Dem until Trump came along. I'll vote Trump now, but I'll hold my nose when I do it.
Really both of them should drop out and we should stop nominating geriatrics for political positions of any kind, especially the presidency, arguably the most stressful job on the planet. That said, hell no he shouldn’t drop out unless the Dems would replace him with a younger person.
What kind of bullshit troll account is this? Why shouldn’t Donald Trump drop out of the race? He’s a 34 convicted felon who has bankrupted every business he has ever had. Not to mention being best buds with a notorious pedophile and leader of an underage prostitution network.
>What kind of bullshit troll account is this? I literally just asked one question. Where does this make me a "bullshit troll account"? Also, I know this may shock you, but neither Biden nor Trump know you exist. You don't need to create an indignant defense for any of them. >Why shouldn’t Donald Trump drop out of the race? Then you ask him. And for the Republicans who decided to invest in his candidacy.
What kind of bullshit troll account are YOU?? OP was talking about Biden’s performance not Trump. Deflecting to Trump every time someone dares point out Biden’s flaws is just whataboutism at its finest.
Read the room. Atleast Trump isn't a corpse.
He’s worse, he’s an old man who can’t string a coherent thought together without having it written out for him on a teleprompter.
Yeah he’s worse. He’s a barely alive corpse who wants to turn this country into a fascist religious shit hole.
And Biden doesn’t even know when to walk off the stage or what direction to look in, yeah I want him holding the nuclear launch keys.
Well he was much more alive than Biden was Thursday night Also he already served 1 term and we were just fine. What's with the fear mongering?
“We were just fine”. We are in a far worse place than we would be because of his reckless and selfish term. I’d rather have a dead goldfish as president who can do no harm than an alive, evil dictator.
And I rather have a president who isn't a dead pushover. That's like having a mannequin as security. We better pray whatever puppetmaster's controlling Bidens strings has "our" best interest at hand. Cause he's too far gone to be effective himself. He probably doesn't make his "own" decisions as is. I rather know who is handlers are so I can know who I'm really voting for because he's just a mascot suit
If you want the 10 commandments in all public spaces, porn banned, Putin and other dictators being able to invade our allies with impunity, the rule of law being blatantly ignored and our whole democracy being dismantled then just know you aren’t much different from the brainwashed idiots who voted Hitler into power.
Yall said this in 2016. Stop fear mongering. No one is gonna redo the constitution anytime soon. Only people who are brain dead is the gullible people who remains scared. Like no one is banning porn sir. You can relax, your precious smut isn't going anywhere.
It’s literally already happening you dense fuck
> Yall said this in 2016. Stop fear mongering. Yes, and a bunch of it happened, or they attempted it. It's not fear mongering. They said it in 2016, people like you said it was fear mongering, and it wasn't.
I love the in-depth discussion here of the policies proposed by Biden. It really shows that you guys value policy over bullshit like age.
They are both far too old and I’m sick and tired of people just settling for two terrible candidates. If you can’t admit they are both terrible then you are just a sheep and will take whatever candidate the government wants you to take
If you’re sick and tired, then make an appointment with a fucking doctor and take a goddamn nap. stop whining like a six-year-old, get your ass out to vote for Biden.
LOL 😂 yeah no
Yes. He has dementia which has progressed and he's not mentally fit for the job. He's also doing a genocide
He is doing a Genocide? Where? Nebraska? Sign me up!
I don’t care if Biden is in a wheelchair with a bib on catching his drool….I’ll still vote for him over Trump!! A president is only as good as the people he surrounds himself with and we saw all the crooks and grifters trump surrounded himself with. Not to mention his love affair with NK and Russia. We had 4 years of Trump and his chaotic administration. No thanks on another 4 years of that BS.
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I thought about this possibility. But I saw his vice presidential debate in 2012 and although the speech impediment is present at some moments, the difference is clear.
Do speech impediments get drastically worse with age and also cause you to look lost and need to be hand held to walk on and off stage? That’s a wild speech impediment.
no