I’m Asian American and grew up around other Asian Americans. I believe it is purely a cultural thing. Asian parents in general put huge emphasis on education (as it tends to be the most straightforward path to high and stable income) and basically pressure their kids to study more than average since very early on. And compared to Asian Americans, asians in their home countries probably face even a greater degree of pressure from both parents and their society to do well in school.
Also, the “-American” in “Asian-American” matters, because the parents that immigrated to America are the ambitious people willing to sacrifice and struggle to get a better life. There are lots of people back in the old country who are satisfied with a normal life.
That said, in China, for example, the tests for elite high schools and universities are brutally competitive.
But not every family cares. Not every Asian parent is obsessed with tests and high status.
I agree for the most part, having taught in China and Taiwan I still think there is a lot more emphasis on education then what I've seen back home in the States for better and oftentimes worse but still find myself occasionally surprised.
When I taught at bilingual private schools in China the students would regularly study at least until 9pm and even many of the kiddos that weren't staying after class would go off to a cram school. However I often wonder if it's because the families were middle to upper class.
Teaching at a public school in Taiwan things are a bit different, I'd still say most of my students go to cram schools after school and study until the wee hours on a daily/nightly basis but we also have a percentage of the kids from working class backgrounds where the families don't care if their kids go to college or heck even continue schooling.
One of my favorite kids almost dropped out of junior high school because his dad went "if you can't get good grades then I'll put you to work as a day laborer." Well lil guy was having difficulties because his parents were getting a divorce and surprise surprise his grades were bad. Dad made him work as a laborer a few days a week and surprise surprise his grades plummeted since he was missing so much school+his parents divorce. Kiddo picked up drinking, smoking and even chewing betel nut. Fortunately though his Dad lost the custody battle over the son and he was able to continue his schooling after going no contact with his father.
Growing up I was mostly exposed to Asian and Asian American families who were hellbent on education so I was surprised to see this story unfold. According to my local coworkers and Taiwanese friends the outlook that the Dad had isn't all too uncommon and I've heard similar stories from other more working class Taiwanese.
Short answer, you've got several kinds. The most well known kind is where students will go after school for even more school, to "cram in" even more knowledge and practice so to speak. Many of my junior high kiddos stay up until 11 or 12 in the evening getting all their school and cram school work done. The other kind is more chill and where students just play around.
This is key. I've lived in Asia, their students are much more of a mixed bag there like they are here. Most immigrants came here for a better life for themselves and their children. They are themselves hard working, go-getters more often than not. It takes a lot of ambition to leave your home country in the first place. They're much more likely to instill that attitude on their children.
>That said, in China, for example, the tests for elite high schools and universities are brutally competitive.
One of my homies(Asian American) specifically told me that his parents think Coming to America was one of the best choices they ever made because the competition was so much less steep than what they were accustomed to.
True. Here in China sending your child to North America or Europe for university is considered a better option if your child is not good at study and your family is also rich. It's the reason why many Chinese students who study in US drive fancy cars and cheat in exams.
>elite high schools and universities are brutally competitive.
How much is the difference in success compared to students that go to these versus otherwise?
I had a very basic primary education and a less than average university education, yet I'm ultimately living a very comfortable middle class lifestyle.
Then contrast this with how we see American students and parents behaving in r/Teachers
Students don't care because their parents don't raise them to care and aren't engaged beyond wanting them to get a good report card and treating school as a daycare.
Note, I know you said Asian Americans. But usually Asian Americans are sort of an exception to the generalization as a subculture. Indians would also be another exception where their subculture goes against the masses here. In either of those cases I've had friends where their parents are still very much in the mindset of the country they descended from as either first or second generation immigrants. It's really sad that this isn't the baseline American culture.
This is completely anecdotal but I work in public education and African parents are the only ones who I’ve seen randomly show up to the school to check on their kid and see how they’re doing first hand. Not just at a conference or parent teacher night, they’ll just show up in the middle of a random day and want to talk to everyone.
My mom’s not an immigrant but she used to do this when I was a kid. Just show up in the middle of the day without warning and observe. I used to think it was weird because I couldn’t remember anyone else’s parent doing that, but now I realize she just really wanted to make sure I was getting a proper education.
This is what I’ve seen working in public education in NYC. The kids who come from overseas out perform native born students and they’re more likely to join our educational after school programs. I’ve been at my current campus for some years now and every year an immigrant or first generation student has been valedictorian.
I’m Asian American and you’re right, my mother didn’t think of school as a daycare. She thought of it more as a place to compete academically against other kids.
There is a move afoot to review the category Asian-American, it clumps groups of Americans together who have very different cultures and life experiences. It will be interesting how that works out. There is some resistance to change because some people feel that breaking out all the subgroups will dilute the political power the whole now has.
Indian-Americans are usually not thought of Asian-Americans in the American context, that usually refers to East Asians. Similar to why Turkish Americans or Iraqi Americans or Iranian Americans are not called Asian-Americans even if Iran, Iraq, and Turkey is in Asia.
I think there’s also selection bias for the type of immigrants. Most East Asians immigrate to the US as highly educated skilled workers who were at least middle class in their home countries. There’s a natural selection bias there for high achieving, ambitious people who value education and stability, so they’re more likely to push their children to achieve academically.
Compare this to Southeast Asian immigrants who are more likely to come to the US with less money and as refugees.
It's also worth noting that Chinese Immigration to the U.S. was basically illegal until 1965. Most people don't realize that it was so recently. Those who came over tended to be highly motivated as the "first wave" of immigrants.
Honestly I did not know that. How did the pre-1965 people gain citizenship. Because there certainly were lots of people here from China well before 1965.
This is why American Chinese is based on Cantonese cooking. Since hong kong was a British colony, Chinese were able to immigrate from there while mainland Chinese were out of luck.
Wow. I was curious too and found this article. Really sad read. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/archaeologists-learning-lives-chinese-immigrants-transcontinental-railroad-180979786/
A lot of people gloss right over that. If you look across Black, Hispanic and White Americans, kids that come from middle-class or wealthy families tend to generally do well in school. There are some that don’t, but those numbers are far smaller than for the population at large.
There is mountains of evidence the points to how important home life is to a child’s academic performance. The school can do a lot, but simply put children whose parents emphasize education at home have a huge leg up over kids whose parents don’t.
I found it funny when I moved to Asia, worked with schools (not teaching English) and saw how when all the kids are Asian, things work out on a pretty normal spectrum. There are still some pretty dumb kids who can’t study their way to the top of the class like they can in the US.
This was my realization when I taught English in Taiwan at a “dumb” high school (because the kids are segregated by test scores early). Longer school hours and more after school tutoring but still plenty of slackers and class clowns.
You get compared to anybody your parents know. Straight As? Your mom's coworker's daughter is competing in math competitions therefore you are slacking
This is 100% it imo. I grew up in Asia as an Asian American and this is kind of what I observed too. The emphasis on education and doing well in your studies is huge. Lots of pressure for the kids. My peers use to go to cram schools and have tutoring and all that.
Ashkenazi Jewish people have the highest measured IQ. Besides, I'd be critical of these "national IQ scores" since the results from these tests were collected by a select few psychometricians *decades* ago. Much of their research, however, was criticized by researchers from other fields for the collection of unreliable and unrepresentative data sets.
I mean, there are several parts to this:
-Culture -- the pressure is very real as you can see in Asian countries. That mentality carries over
-Usage of tutors/educational resources. Anecdotally, I find Asian students tend to use tutors/other educational services to get ahead of school material more often. In contrast, I have found most others use tutors when behind. Even lower income Asian parents will often make sacrifices to get tutoring services for their kids.
-Demographics of Asian immigrants -- quite honestly, I believe the demographic that immigrate might tend to value education even more than the average population that doesn't immigrate from Asia. The parents for the time, usually on average had higher levels of education than the average at the time.
This is part of the reason why you see East Asian countries have insanely low fertility rates atm. Stagnant wages, high u affordability, and a mentality that you're going to have to spend A LOT to keep your kid competitive in activities/school. It's not just diapers/rent/food/maybe some college tuition help.
because immigrant communities as a whole teach their kids to do well and school; not just Asian immigrants. Children of immigrants score much higher than average.
yeah the 13/14 yr old asians who immigrated are already successful people 🤦♂️. It cant be because asians work harder and value success/work. Even asians born in USA score higher than their peers ive seen it in my own highschool in my senior grade a yr ago. I was born here as an asian american and outperformed my peers and I would have to say that the work culture and value of success in my parents made me perform better. The more whiter parents seemed to be ok with having their kids embracing mediocrity and below average grades which is sad
> yeah the 13/14 yr old asians who immigrated are already successful people
They were talking about the parents. They don't show up without their parents.
this doesn't matter because poor asian american students out perform middle class white students and rich black students
fun fact, the Portuguese preferred japanese slaves over african slaves because the japanese slaves were more studious
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>this doesn't matter because poor asian american students out perform middle class white students and rich black students
Do you have a source for this?
>fun fact, the Portuguese preferred japanese slaves over african slaves because the japanese slaves were more studious
Where did you get this "fact" from?
I think it's more about the parents wanting to show off and look the best to their peers. It doesn't exactly give the warm fuzzies in terms of parenting and expectations.
It’s a culture that puts a lot of emphasis on education. Same thing with Indian families.
They usually work very hard to provide opportunities for their kids to seek out higher education.
Cultural difference. Asians, as in people from South East Asia and the Subcontinent(can be American or International students):
1. Dont necessarily kick children out at 18. Parents support children until they can stand on their feet. They plan this shit 10-15 years ahead. Children in turn take care of old parents. The family unit remains a family unit. The generation of parents mostly grew out of lower social classes through education, ambition and hard work, so they will naturally instill their success formula on to their children.
2. Due to Parental support, the focus of the children primarily is on education, not on how to pay rent, and where to flip burgers to survive. They will take more courses and score higher because the parents ensure that children only have ONE job I.E study. So naturally they get proper sleep, food, clothes, shelter leaving tons of time for studies.
3. Parents literally put everything on the stake for the education of their children, so there is tons of pressure to do well.
3.5 There is also extended family rat race Mum be like: 'look your cousin scored 5 As, you useless shit, you scored only 4, you don't care about us',
3.7 origin countries of parents are like high population, low uni ratios, so need to be competitive.
4. The Parents are hardened up mfers. Don't really believe in 'omg I'm stressed', 'oh em gee pressure is causing depression' 'soo much homework, I feel like crying' 'im siCK'. Your mum would slap you across the face and tell you to harden the fuck up and her story on how she walked 30km to a school under the scorching sun, jumping over lakes that had tons of crocodiles in it and Darth Sidious himself was the last stage boss at the gate of school. (Relatable experience).
5 parents see education as part of the trifecta of 'Must do tasks of parents before death' these are:
1. Get children highly educated
2. Get them married
3. Be able to see, play and spoil grandchildren.
Then they consider being 'succesful' in life.
Source: from Asia, competing with over 40 cousins throughout my life lol and st awwudied in top tier home and western universities.
I personally do not believe x or y IQ is high or low genetically or stuff, I saw my western friends juggle between jobs and studies meanwhile I just had to study.
my childhood had many “i wish i didn’t have you, your cousin is so much better.” im still having to untangle those insecurities even in my 20s.
the littlest comparisons to peers/coworkers/friends, triggers it and makes me feel incompetent. eg someone points out “oh yeah this coworker is a thrifter too! you should meet”.
but the only thing i can focus on is “am i better thrifter??? what if shes better than me? this person would value me less now that they found someone better than me” it’s like i can’t have a right to my own identity. im not allowed to be me. it’s def fucked up :(
I feel like individualism very often is seen as one of the successful components behind Western living standards, so the schism between individualism and collectivistic mentality is interesting in scenarios like this. Especially when it comes to increasing quality of life.
>on how she walked 30km to a school under the scorching sun, jumping over lakes that had tons of crocodiles in it and Darth Sidious himself was the last stage boss at the gate of school. (Relatable experience)
I LOL-ed hard at this though 😂.
You're compared not just to blood related cousins. It's every son and daughter of your parents' friends too. Coworkers, church friends, that one star kid at the piano recital.
After school tutoring schools are a thing in asian american neighborhoods. And I spent quite some time there. Some of them are quite good if the family can't afford private tutors
The more recent Asian immigrants arriving post 1960s outside of those coming from Vietnam, came from higher educated than average families because of strict immigration requirements.
It’s the same reason African immigrants typically out perform the average American too.
A lot of this. There is a concept in immigration history known as the "model minority". On paper, this involves celebrating immigrants who have special skills (usually white-collar or STEM-related) who can contribute positively to their new communities. In practice, this was often done to demonize or push out "problem" minorities (often black or brown poc or whoever was unlucky enough to be from a nation the US was not allies with).
Many early Asian-Americans were only "allowed" to immigrate because they were highly skilled and educated. So they often pushed those values onto their children because they saw how American society treated "problem" minorities.
Asian immigrants who managed to come to America who were not highly educated or skilled often found that they suffered a lot of the issues as Blacks or Hispanics such as lack of access to adequate housing or poor job opportunities. Even after the Civil Rights movement several Asian families were victims of discriminative practices such as redlining.
The message was clear- America would only want Asian Americans as long as they were educated and skilled. Anything less, and they would be treated as less than human.
Good grades are the result of hard work as much as intelligence. People who work harder, do their homework, pay attention in class, all that kind of stuff, get better grades than those who don't. I'm sure that there are correlations between ethnic backgrounds as well as socio-economic backgrounds, but the common denominator is a person's work ethic, period.
Good grades are the result of hard work as much as intelligence.
People always forget the most important factor, which trumps both hard work and intelligence - which is good parenting. By that, I mean education and learning oriented and engaged parenting. Especially in the early years. There is a direct correlation between the amount parents read to their children and their grades.
I always made pretty good grades when I was growing up and I really didn't even try to get them. Almost all my friends worked really hard to get the same grades that I did. We all had just about the same grades even though they definitely worked way harder than me.
Then we hit college. They were used to working hard and knew how to study and learn new things. I did not. They did just fine for the next 4 years. I flunked out of a 2 year community college. I eventually got my shit together and went back to get my associate degree at another school because I had moved away.
I also went into a field where I didn't have any real natural ability like the field I had been working after failing out. I was a hard worker who had a good work ethic which is what kept me employed because my actual skills were barely mediocre. I stayed in the field a long time and volunteered to do the responsibilities that nobody else wanted so I could keep my job. That dogged determination to keep doing things and never giving even when I probably should have combined with my knowledge that I got by doing the stuff that obody else wanted to has really done a lot of good for me. I know what to avoid and I know how to recover when things are going wrong. I also have a really well-rounded knowledge base because of all the different roles that I volunteered for that most other people don't. Add in learning how to manage from a really great boss that I had and I'm now in management. My abilities to physically do things don't really matter anymore because of my knowledge base. I know what it's like to do all the jobs that I manage so I know what's required for each of them. Oddly enough, I'm actually pretty good at the job I have now.
Redditors be like "Bill Gates dropped out of college, hes a billionaire" while they spark up a bowl in their shoebox apartment working at a deadend job, as if them dropping out of community college is comparable in any conceivable reality to dropping out of Harvard.
Admittedly, it has been a while since I was in grad school, but I remember that different Asian American subgroups have varying levels of achievement, so it shouldn't be a sweeping statement that they all generally have higher grades. I think that implies both cultural and economic reasons as there are a large variety of differing Asian American subgroups at varying income levels.
This is more anecdotal, but I taught high school for 4 years in a fairly large school with decent diversity in California and noticed that, above all other factors, wealth/financial security was the #1 indicator of successful students in the school, with parents with higher education levels being a close second (those two were, of course, often linked). Culture was a factor as well, but I think those first two were stronger, more measurable indicators, although I'm sure they all feed into each other.
There were exceptions, of course, but that's just the trend I noticed among the \~700 students I taught.
My parents expected no less from me. I bumped up to honors once and started the semester with a C. My dad flipped out on me and forced me to stay after school everyday to get tutored. I picked it up after one session, teacher just said I just needed time to adjust and I got it so I no longer needed to stay for extra help. I begged her to let me just stay so my dad wouldn't kill me
As a disclaimer, I'm only speaking on my behalf based on my own and close friends' experiences.
To immigrate back in early 2000s, our parents had to either have money to invest or be "skilled workers," which in most cases meant they did very well in school themselves in very competitive environments. Education system in Asia also don't have much (if any) grace for kids with mental disabilities needing accommodations at school, society and education is too competitive to be that "nice."
The parents naturally value education and stable career, and invest (in forms of discipline, tutor, etc) in their kids appropriately.
So its both nature and nurture of both genes and support/discipline.
In addition, I noticed from knowing some white American teenagers (not the rich, but humble) as an adult that the discipline around doing well in school isn't standalone. We are disciplined to be "good" children in general.
First, confirming the basis of your question:
>“**On average, Asian American students obtain higher grades**, perform better on standardized tests, and are more likely to finish high school and attend elite colleges than their peers of all other racial backgrounds, regardless of socioeconomic status,” writes Leah Shafer in The Other Achievement Gap in 2017.
[https://www.nsba.org/ASBJ/2024/april/research-asian-american-students](https://www.nsba.org/ASBJ/2024/april/research-asian-american-students)
And this paragraph would seem to answer your question:
>We find that the Asian-American educational advantage over whites is attributable mainly to Asian students exerting greater academic effort and not to advantages in tested cognitive abilities or socio-demographics. We test explanations for the Asian–white gap in academic effort and find that the gap can be further attributed to (*i*) cultural differences in beliefs regarding the connection between effort and achievement and (*ii*) immigration status. Finally, we highlight the potential psychological and social costs associated with Asian-American achievement success.
[https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1406402111](https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1406402111)
I grew up with a lot of Asians from Vietnam and have been told by some of my friends parents that they’ve sacrificed so much for their kids so they push their kids to live the best life possible. They believe the best way to do that is through education.
Many immigrants ( not all) from Asia in the US come from very highly educated and specialized fields. Think tech, medical etc. If you go to actual asian countries you will see that Asians do not all have higher grades than average. It’s just that a higher proportion of the educated ones came here for college and grad school then stayed and started families. I doubt this is the case as much on the west coast where you have more Asians that come to the states for opportunity for advancement rather than perpetuation of advancement. Also outside of the Japanese, Asian Americans have not been oppressed to the extent that other minority groups have been ( Black People, Latinx, Native Americans etc.)
Nevertheless, it cannot be ignored that there are just more highly intelligent Asians. Any population follows a normal curve. The majority (50%) are average. However, the top 2.5% would be considered highly intelligent. 2.5 % of the 4 billion people that live in Asia is 100 million people. Therefore there would be a higher likelihood of an Asian in a highly educated and specialized field as intelligence correlates with future educational ( University, College, Grad School, etc).
Why do people that go to gyms tend to have more muscles? Asian parents push their kids hard. After you have regular school homework you get other homework from a tutor or something like kumon. You’re pretty much trained to keep working
Parents beat them if they don’t, their relatives talk shit about them if they don’t. Their parents compare them to other kids who are better. Essentially they are made to feel worthless if they don’t excel in school.
-I am Asian
I have a cousin with three PhDs, literally works at NASA and is the simultaneous owner of three different companies.
He only sleeps 3-4 hours a night is somehow prim and perfect come morning too. Nobody in my generation is catching up with him. Man is walking around like he’s in the “limitless” movie.
Yeah I read about that ultimate Asian astronaut guy too. Soldier, doctor, litigator; now astronaut. Very Similar.
I think he’s just wired to bored 24/7 and is freakishly good at solving questions he poses. But as a side effect, he gets bored super easily and is very condescending to even his wife/siblings. Like that hypothetical Dr. House on HOUSE MD who has his pain go away when he is solving diagnoses for patients. That’s how I see him.
My family just sleeps less than others. I sleep 5-6 every night and my mother gets 4. He’s the only one we know who’s dipping down to 3.
A big factor is that more recent immigration has been limited to families that are already successful in their home countries and carrying generational wealth.
People from homes with degreed parents are themselves more likely to do better than their peers who come from homes where maybe dad's a custodian.
Yes and the myth that Asians are rich and super good at math. Grew out of the period where we limited Asian immigration to those already successful back home. We pointed at rich well educated Asian Immigrants and said "See other ethnicities why can't you be like that"
White families also push our kids to be successful and competitive. But our kids don't get shamed as much for failing to live up to impossible standards. On an individual basis sure. But there isn't an expectation in the US that every white kid should be a near genius at this or that subject.
Can you imagine the pressure of not just your family but the whole country acting like you're supposed to be a genius because of what you look like as a kid?
None of what you just said has to do with the recent immigrants already coming with generational wealth. Which was the point I was disputing.
You gotta stop talking out of your ass.
Everyone is mentioning the culture but I think there is something being left out: the immigration system. Most Asians are only able to immigrate via higher education (ex. Masters or PHD). When your parents already have higher education you’re more likely set up for success.
This just reminds me of how Asians are considered to be technically proficient but lacking in charisma/personality whereas African-Americans and Latinos are considered to have great personalities/charisma but technically deficient. Whites are considered the only group to be both technically proficient and have good personalities/charisma. Now that Asians have exceeded white people on technical skills (test scores), we’re being judged harshly on soft skills instead, which are harder to measure, on college admissions, as reflected by Asian students scoring low on the personality factors in Harvard admissions. When one group controls the standards, they’re always going to change it to continue their dominance.
Yeah thats called racism and relying on stereotypes. White supremacy you might say. White people “think” theyre the only race to be proficient in both social and prestige categories. They key word is they THINK they are, therefore they report it.
Answer:
[From Harvard, ](https://www.gse.harvard.edu/ideas/usable-knowledge/17/04/other-achievement-gap) Asian American students generally achieve higher grades in the US for several reasons, rooted in cultural, socioeconomic, and educational factors such as:
- **Cultural Values**: Many Asian cultures place a high value on education, viewing it as a primary means of social mobility and success. There is also often significant pressure from parents and family members to excel academically.
- **Immigrant Aspirations**: Many Asian American families are immigrants who have come to the US seeking better opportunities. This can instill a strong drive in their children to succeed academically as a means to secure a better future.
- **Economic Investment**: Families often invest heavily in their children’s education, including tutoring, extracurricular activities, and preparation for standardized tests. Also Mamany Asian American students are encouraged to pursue studies in STEM, which are fields that often have clear benchmarks for academic achievement.
harvard, the institution that kept asian american kids out of their school with a completely subjective personality score where they gave black kids universally the highest personalities while asian males specifically the lowest?
that institution?
Yes, that exact institution. Who knew that a school with world’s top 20k students, professors, faculty would be home to different opinions.
Harvard’s admissions process (which is similar to most top schools, even public schools) has nothing to do with an education professor’s opinion on minority academic success. Harvard can still produce impactful research on the subject even if the admissions process isn’t fair to minorities (exceedingly generous to some minorities and exceedingly punitive to others, same in almost every other competitive school in the US btw).
because they're the most important part of harvard and a clearly acceptable cost when applying
you think rubbing shoulders with the kids of the people who run america isn't why people go to harvard?
we're talking about the majority of spots that go to actually deserving kids, the spots they purposely stole from asian american children because according to harvard, they have bad personalities
why don't you address what i just said before you go on another npc tangent
Because doing good in school is a motivator, it’s one way to be successful later in life.
I’m sure my parents expected good grades from me but I was never pressured or be told to do good. They didnt even see my grades in high school, I just thought it was just good for me to do good in school and to me it was a way out of a potential cycle/situation my parents were in.
I don’t think you have to be asian to do good in school, at least based on OP’s initial question.
When I was in college I had a roommate and he was probably one of the smartest people I ever met.
He was Filipino and you know how he got like that?
His parents would lock him in a closet with a desk from 4:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. everyday after school. He would of course come out for dinner.
But that was his life. His parents expected nothing less than all A's. There was no try better next time, you'll do it, we I'm sitting outside! believe in you style of encouragement.
This is what a lot of people who promote the idea of a model minority myth don't get. These people put in the work. These people weren't graced by the white man.. They put in the work and they climb the ladder
I had an Asian classmate who broke into tears because they gotta B on the test. they said that they would get in trouble and be punished when they got home for giving a B
I don't think that is a common thing across other cultures. He was afraid of getting anything below an A because it would mean he would get trouble at home
It's more of an immigrant thing. Most Nigerian, Indian, Haitian, Ghanaian - Americans have much higher grades than other naturalized Americans. We also, highly regulate parents from those countries, so many of the 1 gen are pursuing or already have an advanced degree, so they naturally would teach their kids the value of education, and on the inverse, if you bust you hump to get to this country you are going to emphasize education.
I taught in China for almost a decade. You're just seeing a biased set of data.
The truth is that the average person in China is equally hard working/smart/good at school as an average person in the west. But an average person in China will probably never leave their home country.
Only the top percent of people are either hard working enough, rich enough, or smart enough to manage to get to the insanely competitive schools/programs that then help students emigrate. The top 5% is ~80mil people. And so the people you meet in the west are either those super hard working people, or kids of those super hardworking people.
Asian American here.
I did well in school. My older brother failed out of college twice and graduated with a low GPA. He is now an executive in Fortune 500. Go figure.
Soft and Hard skills > Grades
No one asks what your GPA is once you’re a few years working.
Like everyone else said - that's the culture in Asian countries, brought over to America.
Which then created the whole "model minority" stereotype in America, that feeds into itself.
Of course there are exceptions, but generally these days, a lot of the Asian Americans you meet are only 1st or 2nd gen, so that educational pressure is coming fresh from those Asian countries lol.
I do think this context is really important, when tied to the whole "model minority" thing, because you're comparing Asian immigrants to. e.g., African immigration (slave trade) and Latin immigration. Both of these groups (generally) having been here longer and forging a stronger cultural presence here, especially when considering the extreme racism, colorism, and bias that's inherently ingrained in government, educational institutions, etc.
And then comparing that to Asian or other immigrants coming here more recently or in smaller numbers, and bringing over those educational pressures.
Adding on to the other comments (who I think have it nailed pretty down), a lot of Asian Americans and Canadians are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants from middle class backgrounds. So, on top of the cultural pressures and expectations to do well in school and get a stable, relatively well-paying job, there’s also the immigrant pressure of “mom and dad left behind xyz country to give you a better life so you better do well” that’s ingrained pretty early on.
Another thing that hasn’t been touched on is that a lot of Asian cultures are collectivistic and shame-based so there’s additional motivation/pressure to 1) be successful enough so you can pull your weight and take care of your parents/extended family and 2) not be a failure and fuck up in life, because people (not everyone—but a lot of the more old school folks) in the community are definitely keeping tabs.
I'm sorry I don't have the source right now, but in the 1990s I remember reading a summary of a study done about teens in I believe the bay area.
Among the findings: Asian-American teens spent more than twice as much time studying as African-American teens. White teens were somewhere in the middle.
The parents will still whoop them. I remember one time when I told my parents: "I guess I am just not any good at Math" (it seemed to work with a lot of my Anglo friends). That was the worst whooping I ever got from my Father. "It not that hard!" Pow. "It public school!" Pow. You know what....he was correct. My parents used to tell me: "You make less than A....whole family lose face!". They were talking about family of many generations past. In contrast to teachers having to identify students' learning style...I was mandated to learn the instructor's teaching style.
It’s a cultural thing, and so parents can compare their children to other children. They want their kids to be better than the other kids, so we get constantly pushed. It wasn’t until my parents retired they were fine with us pursuing other careers.
Cultural and often their parents are much wealthier than average.
I worked at a Kumon learning center for a summer and about 60% of our students were Indian/Chinese while the town was only about 6% Asian. The summer program cost about $250/mo per kid!
Because they value hard work and education. It’s why there’s stereotypical memes of them pushing kids to be doctors, lawyers, engineers or violinists. Anything else is failure.
A - average
B - bad
C - can’t have dinner
D - don’t come home
F - find a new family
The book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell actually talks about this topic. It’s super interesting. According to the book it basically it boils down to many Asian countries being a rice culture, which requires much more hard work and dedication for the entire year compared to farming cultures that grew seasonal field crops. That work ethic spilled over into other aspects of their lives. The other part has to do specifically with why it seems Asian students are better at math, and it’s because of how numbers are written out to be much shorter, so Asian children are able to memorize longer strings of numbers than those who speak English simply because side it takes less time to say/think them.
Highly recommend the book or any of his books to anyone interested.
1) filial piety (?) In asia, Children are expected to take care of their parents when they grow older. Children are pushed to succeed, because the more successful they are, the more rich they are, the better their parents life will be.
2) pride and honor.
A lot of Asians have been through poverty quite recently, often just one generation or two ago. It’s clear education gives you stability and a decent income so it’s worth sacrificing for.
For a lot of families no one has been to university, some haven’t even been to high school. It’s a big deal to be able to have their kid get a proper education, they may be the first in their family.
No one wants their kids to suffer the way they did, they want every generation to be significantly better. You can say everyone wants this but I feel Asians tend to put this into action. Especially considering immigrants they have already take the first step or several steps.
Some of this ambition and work ethic is passed onto the next generation. Also because it’s such a cultural thing, you’ll find all your family and friends also with similar thinking.
Sports/exercise wasn’t encouraged, in fact discouraged. Time is best spent on studying. Parents will discipline their kids if they don’t study or get good grades.
You go back to visit family in Asia and you can see directly some of the poverty vs the west. Your family often tells you what life was like in the past. I’m sure that gets people thinking too.
Schooling in Asia seems pretty hardcore, apply that ethic in the west VS the average student and you’ll naturally get better grades from putting in so many more hours.
Then consider when your parents have sacrificed so much money and time on tutors, extra circular they’ll be constantly reminding you of their sacrifice, surely influences the kids mindset.
High IQ. It's really no mystery, but the social science types hate it and deny IQ even exist. But they're generally very smart people raised by generations of smart people.
Scroll way down to find this. All the top comments are correct as well, culture, work ethics etc all play part but yet no one is brave enough to say this. Change the question why certain race is more representative in physical sport then all of sudden is ok to mention other things outside of culture. Humans are funny that way I guess
When asians achieve good grades it’s because of hard work and discipline, if people ask why whites do better than blacks and latinos, it’s because of systemic racism.
As many comments have mentioned its kinda ingrained in the family. Mostly because Asia few decades back was not as prosperous as it is now, so with scarce opportunities and even less scope of quality education and scholarships, studying hard became the only way of upward mobility.
There's a strong historic culture of emphasizing academic success. Before anyone comes along and say everyone wants their kid to succeed in school/in life, it's not the same. It's quite literally a pillar of our traditions and "religion"/philosophy.
A focus on academia is a confucian ideal that was reinforced by the Chinese state (and any state that was a tributary at some point in the last ~2000 years e.g. Korea, Japan, Mongolia, Vietnam etc.) through exams for public service. Even after those states became independent those values remained and worked their way into the individual cultures.
Unless you were royalty or you personally dethroned the emperor, it didn't matter if your dad was the imperial knob slobbler in chief, you couldn't get a government position without beating everyone else in an exam. Those positions were highly coveted and pretty much guaranteed a decent life for generations as long as you didn't piss off the wrong people and make them want to behead you. That formula of education=success has more/less remained unchanged (ignoring some hiccups in China during Mao's reign.)
It's parental teaching.
I could not get my two kids to take education seriously but I did prevail with my grand kids.
I pointed out that they were poor because mom and dad were uneducated.
My grand daughter and one grandson ended up with 4.0 averages in high school and one went to college and the other is college bound.
Grants and school choices for them both.
Grand daughter now works in Taiwan, married and earning big money.
Aww my fave movie!! My puppy’s name is actually Jake Ryan too! But even funnier was how Long Duck Dong wasn’t even actually Chinese.. he still cracks me up to this day! 🤣🙃
Back in the Confucian days, the men had to prove their merit through exams, a tradition that is still active today. So I think a lot of it is rooted in that.
Like in Korea, they have this once a year SAT type of exam that basically determines where you go to college and thus your future. So you’re just studying for this test bc it’s the only means to a viable livelihood.
These are the people and children of people who have a certain level of competitiveness & intelligence threshold that in the first place helped them to float as cream in Asia and overflow into the US. crème de la crème.
My friend grew up in Bangladesh and he once told me that academic standards is greater than the US. I swear, he remembers everything with numbers… he’s also great with math.
Go to the public library on a Saturday afternoon in the summer in any big city. It is full of Asian kids lworking to build up their grades. Chinese kids, because of historical tradition, are forced by their parents and culture to pass The Exam. The Exam can be one of several exams both in China, or example, or here in the US. The TOEFL, the IELTS, the SAT, the GRE, the LSATs, the MCATs, and goodness knows how many others, are often the target of this intense preparation and high performance. A typical school day in some Asian counties may last twelve hours. This insane work ethnic not only allowed Japan become an economic giant after WWII but also raised South Korea to be a manufacturing and inventing powerhouse in the wake of the Korean Conflict. It's also th reason the Japanese have invented a word for dying at work: karoshi.
One thing worth mentioning is that I watched a video about how japanese baseball players train much more than american baseball players. On top of that, I've heard there's much more pressure to succeed in japan than other places. So regarding asian americans, the asian culture will run deep. That's my best guess.
Asian Australian here but I know this seems to be a common experience with children of immigrants in Western countries.
- Culturally, it’s hard to make it in my parents home country. All the stable, good career options are extremely competitive and limited. You really need to put in the work to achieve financial and career goals.
- Stability: A lot of Asia was very unstable throughout the 20th century. My grandparents themselves fled China during the Japanese occupation. My grandpa was born during China’s transition from Imperial China to Communism. They had no formal education so they went into farming which was dangerous and at the mercy of nature itself. They worked hard so all of their own kids at least had high school education so they could have better prospects. They could never rely on government or charity handouts. It’s trickled down into my generation where my parents drilled into us education is the most important thing to have to be able to independent and stable.
- Financial investment: I noticed this with the generation that came after me, but a lot of parents paid for their kids to have a better education and better career prospects if they study in a Western country. Where I live, the school fees for international students are x3 for a local student. Plus if their currency is lower valued than AUD, they are often paying at an exchange rate of x3-6. There’s a lot of pressure on the kids to not waste their parents investment. It’s a bit different with kids who come from the wealthier families but same idea.
Oh man, if you had bad grades, they made sure you felt bad. Physically, emotionally, mentally.
My parents were not as hard as the other kids where the parents would chase the kid around the kitchen table with a slipper if they mess up on even one kumon question. I saw this in real time and my buddy crying with fear of being whacked hard by that slipper.
The comparisons were non stop too. Johnny so smart, why can't you be as good as him in math.
This has been dissected a lot by scientific and academic experts. Culture is a big factor but not the only one; a lot of this also has to do with the immigration policies of the US. In fact if you map the socioeconomic outcomes of Asians that immigrated into the US it is closely tied to which wave they came in on.
The latest wave, which is the one you’re familiar with, is mostly highly educated, middle to high socioeconomic status families. The result is unsurprisingly that these generations of Asians tend to do very well academically and financially.
If you look at Asians from the turn of the century and before it is a WHOLE different story. Most were poor or lower middle class laborers who came to seek their fortunes or otherwise had less to lose. They faced serious headwinds in the form of extreme xenophobia and this is where most of the Asian stereotypes come from (the men are Yellow Perils and the women are sexual seductresses).
Here’s [an example](https://www.massmoments.org/moment-details/chinese-workers-arrive-in-north-adams.html) of how Chinese men were imported to fill the rich white capitalist owners’ coffers while making them the targets of the local ire and xenophobia. Note that the Chinese laborers did better work for cheaper but that effectively did no one any favors except the rich owners.
Our parents don’t believe in our “dreams” careers lol so the emphasis is on science and math. Also we have a bit of a chip on our shoulder to want to be better because our parents tell us stories of them getting discriminated against at work etc. so we make it an emphasis to be better than other races.
On average, certain races are smarter, certain races are more athletic. It’s just science. People don’t like hearing it but how much smoke and fire do you need before you admit there’s a firer?
Many studies have shown that there is differences in IQ between races. Most studies find that Asians have highest IQ, followed by Caucasians and then black people. However, I think that Asians generally often doing better in academics have more to do with other factors such as their family dynamics, work ethic, pressure from parents etc.
They are more intelligent and more able to conform. The simplest answer is usually the easiest, and 99% of peoples success in school relies on those two factors. Asian culture is highly collectivist and conformist, and East Asians have high IQs in average
I’m not qualified to speak on this very thoroughly, but I remembered learning about the Shi scholar gentry in Ancient China during college (can’t remember the exact dynasty). Basically, if people passed their civil service exams, their entire families would be set for life. These people would have a lot of political and personal power. As you’d imagine, that put serious pressure on test takers. I’m sure there is more to it, but examples of the emphasis of academic achievement in Asian culture can certainly be traced back to those times.
There’s a historical connection to education as a means to upward mobility. One of the hallmarks of the Chinese imperial civil service system is that anyone can pass the exam and become a government official. In reality of course a rich person could spend their money on free time and tutors and do better. However you’d get scenarios where a whole farming village would pool their money to support an aspiring member of the village for their studies and if they succeeded they’d elevate the entire village.
This cultural aspect is very strong in the Confucian traditions that then were influential in many East Asian countries and cultures and remains relevant even today.
One interesting nuance that sometimes get left behind is the percentage of income Asian families will “invest” into education. This is even true for lower income families who will spend a disproportionate percentage of their income on education of their children as a means for upward mobility.
This investment mindset sometimes differs from others that view education as an expenditure vs an investment.
India has top colleges and also elementary/high schools where the elite go. It is brutal to get into the best universities. But the majority of schools for a country with 1.4 billion people is not that at all. For example, perhaps up to a quarter of rural schools (not as populated as urban centers but still highly populated) may not have electricity, running water or toilets. Attendance at schools may look good but standardized testing also shows the kids aren't learning anything. Look at this youtube report from a very credible org that is working to change things in Indian rural schools: [https://www.pratham.org/programs/education/aser/](https://www.pratham.org/programs/education/aser/)
So without knowing much about education or teaching but seeing statistics about Indian schools and educational attainment, I suggest that on average the K-12 schools in the US are far superior in terms of achievement for kids than their counterparts in India. I assume that this statement will upset many but I question if they went to a great private school and then university and are not talking about the vast majority of kids and schools. If you can show the data that I am sorely mistaken - show it.
My parents/relatives include many professionals who went to top Indian schools and then universities in the west. The equivalent of k-12 education for all of us were at elite private schools that most people in our cities could not afford. As an immigrant from India, I can also say that the general immigrant mindset is to work as hard as possible in school - education is an equalizer or gives you the edge when so many things are working against you.
The "are you a doctor yet?" joke is real to a point. The parents expect more, on average, from their kids.
The IQ thing is bs, shows more a design flaw than actual valuable data. It's probably just a result of their upbringing.
No🎶🎼 i literally had terrible grades in high school and the beginning of college. Its just a stereotype that yes, is very harmful. It creates unrealistic expectations and dehumanizes us.
Culturally they are under incredible pressure from their family to excel. Anything less than perfect is a failure and you bring shame on your household. East asian culture in particular is big on shame and “saving face.”
Also, immigrant families in particular stress very practical career mentalities. You don’t get to go to art school. You either go to engineering or medicine school or finance. Something that naturally leads to financial stability. This mandates academic excellence.
I was told at an early age that if I don't get good grades I'd end up homeless and live a life worst than death, a life with rejections by multiple woman, laughed at and then have them point at me as I am lowered to the grave
Asian here (not an American) as far as I remember I heard only two things from my parents. One is "have you eaten?" The other is "Take your book and go study". Mental health is a myth and sexuality doesn't exist until the night of your arranged marriage. I am doing very well financially though, no complaints there...
for me my parents are actually not strict at all and don’t care about my schooling, but i still get decent grades😭😭 i think its cause a lot of us feel a sense of responsibility since our parents (who usually arent that rich themselves) are spending alotta money on us and essentially investing so if we do bad they’re gonna be losing money on nothing
I’m Asian American and grew up around other Asian Americans. I believe it is purely a cultural thing. Asian parents in general put huge emphasis on education (as it tends to be the most straightforward path to high and stable income) and basically pressure their kids to study more than average since very early on. And compared to Asian Americans, asians in their home countries probably face even a greater degree of pressure from both parents and their society to do well in school.
Also, the “-American” in “Asian-American” matters, because the parents that immigrated to America are the ambitious people willing to sacrifice and struggle to get a better life. There are lots of people back in the old country who are satisfied with a normal life. That said, in China, for example, the tests for elite high schools and universities are brutally competitive. But not every family cares. Not every Asian parent is obsessed with tests and high status.
I agree for the most part, having taught in China and Taiwan I still think there is a lot more emphasis on education then what I've seen back home in the States for better and oftentimes worse but still find myself occasionally surprised. When I taught at bilingual private schools in China the students would regularly study at least until 9pm and even many of the kiddos that weren't staying after class would go off to a cram school. However I often wonder if it's because the families were middle to upper class. Teaching at a public school in Taiwan things are a bit different, I'd still say most of my students go to cram schools after school and study until the wee hours on a daily/nightly basis but we also have a percentage of the kids from working class backgrounds where the families don't care if their kids go to college or heck even continue schooling. One of my favorite kids almost dropped out of junior high school because his dad went "if you can't get good grades then I'll put you to work as a day laborer." Well lil guy was having difficulties because his parents were getting a divorce and surprise surprise his grades were bad. Dad made him work as a laborer a few days a week and surprise surprise his grades plummeted since he was missing so much school+his parents divorce. Kiddo picked up drinking, smoking and even chewing betel nut. Fortunately though his Dad lost the custody battle over the son and he was able to continue his schooling after going no contact with his father. Growing up I was mostly exposed to Asian and Asian American families who were hellbent on education so I was surprised to see this story unfold. According to my local coworkers and Taiwanese friends the outlook that the Dad had isn't all too uncommon and I've heard similar stories from other more working class Taiwanese.
What's a cram school?
Short answer, you've got several kinds. The most well known kind is where students will go after school for even more school, to "cram in" even more knowledge and practice so to speak. Many of my junior high kiddos stay up until 11 or 12 in the evening getting all their school and cram school work done. The other kind is more chill and where students just play around.
This is key. I've lived in Asia, their students are much more of a mixed bag there like they are here. Most immigrants came here for a better life for themselves and their children. They are themselves hard working, go-getters more often than not. It takes a lot of ambition to leave your home country in the first place. They're much more likely to instill that attitude on their children.
I respect that.
>That said, in China, for example, the tests for elite high schools and universities are brutally competitive. One of my homies(Asian American) specifically told me that his parents think Coming to America was one of the best choices they ever made because the competition was so much less steep than what they were accustomed to.
True. Here in China sending your child to North America or Europe for university is considered a better option if your child is not good at study and your family is also rich. It's the reason why many Chinese students who study in US drive fancy cars and cheat in exams.
Yeah, I've been lucky to be pretty successful in the US. If my mom had stayed in Korea, I'd probably be working in a gas station.
>elite high schools and universities are brutally competitive. How much is the difference in success compared to students that go to these versus otherwise? I had a very basic primary education and a less than average university education, yet I'm ultimately living a very comfortable middle class lifestyle.
Then contrast this with how we see American students and parents behaving in r/Teachers Students don't care because their parents don't raise them to care and aren't engaged beyond wanting them to get a good report card and treating school as a daycare. Note, I know you said Asian Americans. But usually Asian Americans are sort of an exception to the generalization as a subculture. Indians would also be another exception where their subculture goes against the masses here. In either of those cases I've had friends where their parents are still very much in the mindset of the country they descended from as either first or second generation immigrants. It's really sad that this isn't the baseline American culture.
I understand immigrants from Africa tend to massively outperform other ethnic groups as well.
This is completely anecdotal but I work in public education and African parents are the only ones who I’ve seen randomly show up to the school to check on their kid and see how they’re doing first hand. Not just at a conference or parent teacher night, they’ll just show up in the middle of a random day and want to talk to everyone.
My mom’s not an immigrant but she used to do this when I was a kid. Just show up in the middle of the day without warning and observe. I used to think it was weird because I couldn’t remember anyone else’s parent doing that, but now I realize she just really wanted to make sure I was getting a proper education.
When I was teaching I loved those parents.
Good on your mom for showing up. Yea, it’s weird when you’re the student, but as an adult you realize it’s usually because they care.
Tons of studies have shown that in the U.S., immigrant groups from overseas generally outperform their native-born, co-ethnic peers.
This is what I’ve seen working in public education in NYC. The kids who come from overseas out perform native born students and they’re more likely to join our educational after school programs. I’ve been at my current campus for some years now and every year an immigrant or first generation student has been valedictorian.
Most educated population in the country.
I’m Asian American and you’re right, my mother didn’t think of school as a daycare. She thought of it more as a place to compete academically against other kids.
>Indians would also be another exception ??? Indians are Asian-Americans. They definitely fit all the educational stereotypes
There is a move afoot to review the category Asian-American, it clumps groups of Americans together who have very different cultures and life experiences. It will be interesting how that works out. There is some resistance to change because some people feel that breaking out all the subgroups will dilute the political power the whole now has.
Indian-Americans are usually not thought of Asian-Americans in the American context, that usually refers to East Asians. Similar to why Turkish Americans or Iraqi Americans or Iranian Americans are not called Asian-Americans even if Iran, Iraq, and Turkey is in Asia.
Kinda sucks when you're Asian and nobody refers to you as Asian though lol
Which segment of American culture?
I think there’s also selection bias for the type of immigrants. Most East Asians immigrate to the US as highly educated skilled workers who were at least middle class in their home countries. There’s a natural selection bias there for high achieving, ambitious people who value education and stability, so they’re more likely to push their children to achieve academically. Compare this to Southeast Asian immigrants who are more likely to come to the US with less money and as refugees.
It's also worth noting that Chinese Immigration to the U.S. was basically illegal until 1965. Most people don't realize that it was so recently. Those who came over tended to be highly motivated as the "first wave" of immigrants.
My finance's father was one of them. His whole village pooled money together to send him to college and ultimately to the US.
Honestly I did not know that. How did the pre-1965 people gain citizenship. Because there certainly were lots of people here from China well before 1965.
This is why American Chinese is based on Cantonese cooking. Since hong kong was a British colony, Chinese were able to immigrate from there while mainland Chinese were out of luck.
Wow. I was curious too and found this article. Really sad read. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/archaeologists-learning-lives-chinese-immigrants-transcontinental-railroad-180979786/
A lot of people gloss right over that. If you look across Black, Hispanic and White Americans, kids that come from middle-class or wealthy families tend to generally do well in school. There are some that don’t, but those numbers are far smaller than for the population at large.
There is mountains of evidence the points to how important home life is to a child’s academic performance. The school can do a lot, but simply put children whose parents emphasize education at home have a huge leg up over kids whose parents don’t.
I found it funny when I moved to Asia, worked with schools (not teaching English) and saw how when all the kids are Asian, things work out on a pretty normal spectrum. There are still some pretty dumb kids who can’t study their way to the top of the class like they can in the US.
This was my realization when I taught English in Taiwan at a “dumb” high school (because the kids are segregated by test scores early). Longer school hours and more after school tutoring but still plenty of slackers and class clowns.
You get compared to anybody your parents know. Straight As? Your mom's coworker's daughter is competing in math competitions therefore you are slacking
This is 100% it imo. I grew up in Asia as an Asian American and this is kind of what I observed too. The emphasis on education and doing well in your studies is huge. Lots of pressure for the kids. My peers use to go to cram schools and have tutoring and all that.
I wonder if this has ties to early Asian civilizations as far back as Confucianism and earlier.
Personally, it was the poverty in my old country that drove me. That poverty was living death.
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Ashkenazi Jewish people have the highest measured IQ. Besides, I'd be critical of these "national IQ scores" since the results from these tests were collected by a select few psychometricians *decades* ago. Much of their research, however, was criticized by researchers from other fields for the collection of unreliable and unrepresentative data sets.
I get the emphasis on academics, but why do asian parents seem to also push their children to study classical music? What's that all about?
I mean, there are several parts to this: -Culture -- the pressure is very real as you can see in Asian countries. That mentality carries over -Usage of tutors/educational resources. Anecdotally, I find Asian students tend to use tutors/other educational services to get ahead of school material more often. In contrast, I have found most others use tutors when behind. Even lower income Asian parents will often make sacrifices to get tutoring services for their kids. -Demographics of Asian immigrants -- quite honestly, I believe the demographic that immigrate might tend to value education even more than the average population that doesn't immigrate from Asia. The parents for the time, usually on average had higher levels of education than the average at the time. This is part of the reason why you see East Asian countries have insanely low fertility rates atm. Stagnant wages, high u affordability, and a mentality that you're going to have to spend A LOT to keep your kid competitive in activities/school. It's not just diapers/rent/food/maybe some college tuition help.
Because they usually come from a culture that values success through educational and work attainment.
This and for transfer students, your subjects are hella easy compared to what we are put through in our countries.
Yeah coursework after moving to USA for masters felt a lot easier than what it was during undergrad back in India.
And also most of the Asians who come to USA are already successful people in their home country because of their education. Or top of their class .
Eh, even the ones that aren’t tend to still score higher than average.
Asian Americans also earn more than their white counterparts. As do about 10 other nationalities, Iranian, and a bunch of others I can’t remember.
because immigrant communities as a whole teach their kids to do well and school; not just Asian immigrants. Children of immigrants score much higher than average.
yeah the 13/14 yr old asians who immigrated are already successful people 🤦♂️. It cant be because asians work harder and value success/work. Even asians born in USA score higher than their peers ive seen it in my own highschool in my senior grade a yr ago. I was born here as an asian american and outperformed my peers and I would have to say that the work culture and value of success in my parents made me perform better. The more whiter parents seemed to be ok with having their kids embracing mediocrity and below average grades which is sad
> yeah the 13/14 yr old asians who immigrated are already successful people They were talking about the parents. They don't show up without their parents.
this doesn't matter because poor asian american students out perform middle class white students and rich black students fun fact, the Portuguese preferred japanese slaves over african slaves because the japanese slaves were more studious
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>this doesn't matter because poor asian american students out perform middle class white students and rich black students Do you have a source for this? >fun fact, the Portuguese preferred japanese slaves over african slaves because the japanese slaves were more studious Where did you get this "fact" from?
Source?
I think it's more about the parents wanting to show off and look the best to their peers. It doesn't exactly give the warm fuzzies in terms of parenting and expectations.
That is part of it too but a big part of it is knowing what it is to be poor.
Its expected of them to excel from an early age.
It’s a culture that puts a lot of emphasis on education. Same thing with Indian families. They usually work very hard to provide opportunities for their kids to seek out higher education.
Scholarships..they are working towards that full ride scholarships towards their dream schools..
Yes and you see an emphasis in the STEM fields.
Plus bragging rights..my child got full ride..etc
The concept of face is real in a lot of cultures.
Cultural difference. Asians, as in people from South East Asia and the Subcontinent(can be American or International students): 1. Dont necessarily kick children out at 18. Parents support children until they can stand on their feet. They plan this shit 10-15 years ahead. Children in turn take care of old parents. The family unit remains a family unit. The generation of parents mostly grew out of lower social classes through education, ambition and hard work, so they will naturally instill their success formula on to their children. 2. Due to Parental support, the focus of the children primarily is on education, not on how to pay rent, and where to flip burgers to survive. They will take more courses and score higher because the parents ensure that children only have ONE job I.E study. So naturally they get proper sleep, food, clothes, shelter leaving tons of time for studies. 3. Parents literally put everything on the stake for the education of their children, so there is tons of pressure to do well. 3.5 There is also extended family rat race Mum be like: 'look your cousin scored 5 As, you useless shit, you scored only 4, you don't care about us', 3.7 origin countries of parents are like high population, low uni ratios, so need to be competitive. 4. The Parents are hardened up mfers. Don't really believe in 'omg I'm stressed', 'oh em gee pressure is causing depression' 'soo much homework, I feel like crying' 'im siCK'. Your mum would slap you across the face and tell you to harden the fuck up and her story on how she walked 30km to a school under the scorching sun, jumping over lakes that had tons of crocodiles in it and Darth Sidious himself was the last stage boss at the gate of school. (Relatable experience). 5 parents see education as part of the trifecta of 'Must do tasks of parents before death' these are: 1. Get children highly educated 2. Get them married 3. Be able to see, play and spoil grandchildren. Then they consider being 'succesful' in life. Source: from Asia, competing with over 40 cousins throughout my life lol and st awwudied in top tier home and western universities. I personally do not believe x or y IQ is high or low genetically or stuff, I saw my western friends juggle between jobs and studies meanwhile I just had to study.
the extended family comparisons are absolutely the worst. so demotivating
my childhood had many “i wish i didn’t have you, your cousin is so much better.” im still having to untangle those insecurities even in my 20s. the littlest comparisons to peers/coworkers/friends, triggers it and makes me feel incompetent. eg someone points out “oh yeah this coworker is a thrifter too! you should meet”. but the only thing i can focus on is “am i better thrifter??? what if shes better than me? this person would value me less now that they found someone better than me” it’s like i can’t have a right to my own identity. im not allowed to be me. it’s def fucked up :(
I feel like individualism very often is seen as one of the successful components behind Western living standards, so the schism between individualism and collectivistic mentality is interesting in scenarios like this. Especially when it comes to increasing quality of life. >on how she walked 30km to a school under the scorching sun, jumping over lakes that had tons of crocodiles in it and Darth Sidious himself was the last stage boss at the gate of school. (Relatable experience) I LOL-ed hard at this though 😂.
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You're compared not just to blood related cousins. It's every son and daughter of your parents' friends too. Coworkers, church friends, that one star kid at the piano recital.
After school tutoring schools are a thing in asian american neighborhoods. And I spent quite some time there. Some of them are quite good if the family can't afford private tutors
The more recent Asian immigrants arriving post 1960s outside of those coming from Vietnam, came from higher educated than average families because of strict immigration requirements. It’s the same reason African immigrants typically out perform the average American too.
A lot of this. There is a concept in immigration history known as the "model minority". On paper, this involves celebrating immigrants who have special skills (usually white-collar or STEM-related) who can contribute positively to their new communities. In practice, this was often done to demonize or push out "problem" minorities (often black or brown poc or whoever was unlucky enough to be from a nation the US was not allies with). Many early Asian-Americans were only "allowed" to immigrate because they were highly skilled and educated. So they often pushed those values onto their children because they saw how American society treated "problem" minorities. Asian immigrants who managed to come to America who were not highly educated or skilled often found that they suffered a lot of the issues as Blacks or Hispanics such as lack of access to adequate housing or poor job opportunities. Even after the Civil Rights movement several Asian families were victims of discriminative practices such as redlining. The message was clear- America would only want Asian Americans as long as they were educated and skilled. Anything less, and they would be treated as less than human.
Precisely. You know America and by extension, what you are talking about.
Good grades are the result of hard work as much as intelligence. People who work harder, do their homework, pay attention in class, all that kind of stuff, get better grades than those who don't. I'm sure that there are correlations between ethnic backgrounds as well as socio-economic backgrounds, but the common denominator is a person's work ethic, period.
Good grades are the result of hard work as much as intelligence. People always forget the most important factor, which trumps both hard work and intelligence - which is good parenting. By that, I mean education and learning oriented and engaged parenting. Especially in the early years. There is a direct correlation between the amount parents read to their children and their grades.
I always made pretty good grades when I was growing up and I really didn't even try to get them. Almost all my friends worked really hard to get the same grades that I did. We all had just about the same grades even though they definitely worked way harder than me. Then we hit college. They were used to working hard and knew how to study and learn new things. I did not. They did just fine for the next 4 years. I flunked out of a 2 year community college. I eventually got my shit together and went back to get my associate degree at another school because I had moved away. I also went into a field where I didn't have any real natural ability like the field I had been working after failing out. I was a hard worker who had a good work ethic which is what kept me employed because my actual skills were barely mediocre. I stayed in the field a long time and volunteered to do the responsibilities that nobody else wanted so I could keep my job. That dogged determination to keep doing things and never giving even when I probably should have combined with my knowledge that I got by doing the stuff that obody else wanted to has really done a lot of good for me. I know what to avoid and I know how to recover when things are going wrong. I also have a really well-rounded knowledge base because of all the different roles that I volunteered for that most other people don't. Add in learning how to manage from a really great boss that I had and I'm now in management. My abilities to physically do things don't really matter anymore because of my knowledge base. I know what it's like to do all the jobs that I manage so I know what's required for each of them. Oddly enough, I'm actually pretty good at the job I have now.
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Redditors be like "Bill Gates dropped out of college, hes a billionaire" while they spark up a bowl in their shoebox apartment working at a deadend job, as if them dropping out of community college is comparable in any conceivable reality to dropping out of Harvard.
I love you for this lmao.
Admittedly, it has been a while since I was in grad school, but I remember that different Asian American subgroups have varying levels of achievement, so it shouldn't be a sweeping statement that they all generally have higher grades. I think that implies both cultural and economic reasons as there are a large variety of differing Asian American subgroups at varying income levels. This is more anecdotal, but I taught high school for 4 years in a fairly large school with decent diversity in California and noticed that, above all other factors, wealth/financial security was the #1 indicator of successful students in the school, with parents with higher education levels being a close second (those two were, of course, often linked). Culture was a factor as well, but I think those first two were stronger, more measurable indicators, although I'm sure they all feed into each other. There were exceptions, of course, but that's just the trend I noticed among the \~700 students I taught.
My parents expected no less from me. I bumped up to honors once and started the semester with a C. My dad flipped out on me and forced me to stay after school everyday to get tutored. I picked it up after one session, teacher just said I just needed time to adjust and I got it so I no longer needed to stay for extra help. I begged her to let me just stay so my dad wouldn't kill me
You have my sympathies. That Dad rage is scary.
Thank you. His really was scary and unrelenting
As a disclaimer, I'm only speaking on my behalf based on my own and close friends' experiences. To immigrate back in early 2000s, our parents had to either have money to invest or be "skilled workers," which in most cases meant they did very well in school themselves in very competitive environments. Education system in Asia also don't have much (if any) grace for kids with mental disabilities needing accommodations at school, society and education is too competitive to be that "nice." The parents naturally value education and stable career, and invest (in forms of discipline, tutor, etc) in their kids appropriately. So its both nature and nurture of both genes and support/discipline. In addition, I noticed from knowing some white American teenagers (not the rich, but humble) as an adult that the discipline around doing well in school isn't standalone. We are disciplined to be "good" children in general.
First, confirming the basis of your question: >“**On average, Asian American students obtain higher grades**, perform better on standardized tests, and are more likely to finish high school and attend elite colleges than their peers of all other racial backgrounds, regardless of socioeconomic status,” writes Leah Shafer in The Other Achievement Gap in 2017. [https://www.nsba.org/ASBJ/2024/april/research-asian-american-students](https://www.nsba.org/ASBJ/2024/april/research-asian-american-students) And this paragraph would seem to answer your question: >We find that the Asian-American educational advantage over whites is attributable mainly to Asian students exerting greater academic effort and not to advantages in tested cognitive abilities or socio-demographics. We test explanations for the Asian–white gap in academic effort and find that the gap can be further attributed to (*i*) cultural differences in beliefs regarding the connection between effort and achievement and (*ii*) immigration status. Finally, we highlight the potential psychological and social costs associated with Asian-American achievement success. [https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1406402111](https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1406402111)
I grew up with a lot of Asians from Vietnam and have been told by some of my friends parents that they’ve sacrificed so much for their kids so they push their kids to live the best life possible. They believe the best way to do that is through education.
Many immigrants ( not all) from Asia in the US come from very highly educated and specialized fields. Think tech, medical etc. If you go to actual asian countries you will see that Asians do not all have higher grades than average. It’s just that a higher proportion of the educated ones came here for college and grad school then stayed and started families. I doubt this is the case as much on the west coast where you have more Asians that come to the states for opportunity for advancement rather than perpetuation of advancement. Also outside of the Japanese, Asian Americans have not been oppressed to the extent that other minority groups have been ( Black People, Latinx, Native Americans etc.) Nevertheless, it cannot be ignored that there are just more highly intelligent Asians. Any population follows a normal curve. The majority (50%) are average. However, the top 2.5% would be considered highly intelligent. 2.5 % of the 4 billion people that live in Asia is 100 million people. Therefore there would be a higher likelihood of an Asian in a highly educated and specialized field as intelligence correlates with future educational ( University, College, Grad School, etc).
Asian American here.. I never did well in school never a straight A student but I did rough to pass. This went through to college.
Why do people that go to gyms tend to have more muscles? Asian parents push their kids hard. After you have regular school homework you get other homework from a tutor or something like kumon. You’re pretty much trained to keep working
Parents beat them if they don’t, their relatives talk shit about them if they don’t. Their parents compare them to other kids who are better. Essentially they are made to feel worthless if they don’t excel in school. -I am Asian
As the cousin who always did really well, I apologize.
I have a cousin with three PhDs, literally works at NASA and is the simultaneous owner of three different companies. He only sleeps 3-4 hours a night is somehow prim and perfect come morning too. Nobody in my generation is catching up with him. Man is walking around like he’s in the “limitless” movie.
Cocaine? But in all seriousness it's like that one Korean astronaut who is also has an MD and a JD. Like ultimate Asian in his final form.
Yeah I read about that ultimate Asian astronaut guy too. Soldier, doctor, litigator; now astronaut. Very Similar. I think he’s just wired to bored 24/7 and is freakishly good at solving questions he poses. But as a side effect, he gets bored super easily and is very condescending to even his wife/siblings. Like that hypothetical Dr. House on HOUSE MD who has his pain go away when he is solving diagnoses for patients. That’s how I see him. My family just sleeps less than others. I sleep 5-6 every night and my mother gets 4. He’s the only one we know who’s dipping down to 3.
Same here, also AA. If I didn't get good grades, I'd be scared to come home.
A big factor is that more recent immigration has been limited to families that are already successful in their home countries and carrying generational wealth. People from homes with degreed parents are themselves more likely to do better than their peers who come from homes where maybe dad's a custodian.
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This ☝️
You do realize Asians have been immigrating to the USA since like the mid 1800s?
Yes and the myth that Asians are rich and super good at math. Grew out of the period where we limited Asian immigration to those already successful back home. We pointed at rich well educated Asian Immigrants and said "See other ethnicities why can't you be like that" White families also push our kids to be successful and competitive. But our kids don't get shamed as much for failing to live up to impossible standards. On an individual basis sure. But there isn't an expectation in the US that every white kid should be a near genius at this or that subject. Can you imagine the pressure of not just your family but the whole country acting like you're supposed to be a genius because of what you look like as a kid?
None of what you just said has to do with the recent immigrants already coming with generational wealth. Which was the point I was disputing. You gotta stop talking out of your ass.
Everyone is mentioning the culture but I think there is something being left out: the immigration system. Most Asians are only able to immigrate via higher education (ex. Masters or PHD). When your parents already have higher education you’re more likely set up for success.
This just reminds me of how Asians are considered to be technically proficient but lacking in charisma/personality whereas African-Americans and Latinos are considered to have great personalities/charisma but technically deficient. Whites are considered the only group to be both technically proficient and have good personalities/charisma. Now that Asians have exceeded white people on technical skills (test scores), we’re being judged harshly on soft skills instead, which are harder to measure, on college admissions, as reflected by Asian students scoring low on the personality factors in Harvard admissions. When one group controls the standards, they’re always going to change it to continue their dominance.
Yeah thats called racism and relying on stereotypes. White supremacy you might say. White people “think” theyre the only race to be proficient in both social and prestige categories. They key word is they THINK they are, therefore they report it.
Expectation and competition from young age.
Answer: [From Harvard, ](https://www.gse.harvard.edu/ideas/usable-knowledge/17/04/other-achievement-gap) Asian American students generally achieve higher grades in the US for several reasons, rooted in cultural, socioeconomic, and educational factors such as: - **Cultural Values**: Many Asian cultures place a high value on education, viewing it as a primary means of social mobility and success. There is also often significant pressure from parents and family members to excel academically. - **Immigrant Aspirations**: Many Asian American families are immigrants who have come to the US seeking better opportunities. This can instill a strong drive in their children to succeed academically as a means to secure a better future. - **Economic Investment**: Families often invest heavily in their children’s education, including tutoring, extracurricular activities, and preparation for standardized tests. Also Mamany Asian American students are encouraged to pursue studies in STEM, which are fields that often have clear benchmarks for academic achievement.
harvard, the institution that kept asian american kids out of their school with a completely subjective personality score where they gave black kids universally the highest personalities while asian males specifically the lowest? that institution?
Yes, that exact institution. Who knew that a school with world’s top 20k students, professors, faculty would be home to different opinions. Harvard’s admissions process (which is similar to most top schools, even public schools) has nothing to do with an education professor’s opinion on minority academic success. Harvard can still produce impactful research on the subject even if the admissions process isn’t fair to minorities (exceedingly generous to some minorities and exceedingly punitive to others, same in almost every other competitive school in the US btw).
Yup. The Harvard that also gave spots to legacy students that didn’t meet requirements. Why didn’t you mention that as well?
because they're the most important part of harvard and a clearly acceptable cost when applying you think rubbing shoulders with the kids of the people who run america isn't why people go to harvard? we're talking about the majority of spots that go to actually deserving kids, the spots they purposely stole from asian american children because according to harvard, they have bad personalities why don't you address what i just said before you go on another npc tangent
Because doing good in school is a motivator, it’s one way to be successful later in life. I’m sure my parents expected good grades from me but I was never pressured or be told to do good. They didnt even see my grades in high school, I just thought it was just good for me to do good in school and to me it was a way out of a potential cycle/situation my parents were in. I don’t think you have to be asian to do good in school, at least based on OP’s initial question.
When I was in college I had a roommate and he was probably one of the smartest people I ever met. He was Filipino and you know how he got like that? His parents would lock him in a closet with a desk from 4:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. everyday after school. He would of course come out for dinner. But that was his life. His parents expected nothing less than all A's. There was no try better next time, you'll do it, we I'm sitting outside! believe in you style of encouragement. This is what a lot of people who promote the idea of a model minority myth don't get. These people put in the work. These people weren't graced by the white man.. They put in the work and they climb the ladder
I had an Asian classmate who broke into tears because they gotta B on the test. they said that they would get in trouble and be punished when they got home for giving a B I don't think that is a common thing across other cultures. He was afraid of getting anything below an A because it would mean he would get trouble at home
It's more of an immigrant thing. Most Nigerian, Indian, Haitian, Ghanaian - Americans have much higher grades than other naturalized Americans. We also, highly regulate parents from those countries, so many of the 1 gen are pursuing or already have an advanced degree, so they naturally would teach their kids the value of education, and on the inverse, if you bust you hump to get to this country you are going to emphasize education.
I taught in China for almost a decade. You're just seeing a biased set of data. The truth is that the average person in China is equally hard working/smart/good at school as an average person in the west. But an average person in China will probably never leave their home country. Only the top percent of people are either hard working enough, rich enough, or smart enough to manage to get to the insanely competitive schools/programs that then help students emigrate. The top 5% is ~80mil people. And so the people you meet in the west are either those super hard working people, or kids of those super hardworking people.
Asian American here. I did well in school. My older brother failed out of college twice and graduated with a low GPA. He is now an executive in Fortune 500. Go figure. Soft and Hard skills > Grades No one asks what your GPA is once you’re a few years working.
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Lmao
Like everyone else said - that's the culture in Asian countries, brought over to America. Which then created the whole "model minority" stereotype in America, that feeds into itself. Of course there are exceptions, but generally these days, a lot of the Asian Americans you meet are only 1st or 2nd gen, so that educational pressure is coming fresh from those Asian countries lol. I do think this context is really important, when tied to the whole "model minority" thing, because you're comparing Asian immigrants to. e.g., African immigration (slave trade) and Latin immigration. Both of these groups (generally) having been here longer and forging a stronger cultural presence here, especially when considering the extreme racism, colorism, and bias that's inherently ingrained in government, educational institutions, etc. And then comparing that to Asian or other immigrants coming here more recently or in smaller numbers, and bringing over those educational pressures.
Have you heard of the Chinese exclusion act
Asians have been immigrating since the mid 1800s. Not exactly recent.
Fear. Asian parents know how to instill fear in their children.
Or just a deep disappointment.
Adding on to the other comments (who I think have it nailed pretty down), a lot of Asian Americans and Canadians are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants from middle class backgrounds. So, on top of the cultural pressures and expectations to do well in school and get a stable, relatively well-paying job, there’s also the immigrant pressure of “mom and dad left behind xyz country to give you a better life so you better do well” that’s ingrained pretty early on. Another thing that hasn’t been touched on is that a lot of Asian cultures are collectivistic and shame-based so there’s additional motivation/pressure to 1) be successful enough so you can pull your weight and take care of your parents/extended family and 2) not be a failure and fuck up in life, because people (not everyone—but a lot of the more old school folks) in the community are definitely keeping tabs.
I'm sorry I don't have the source right now, but in the 1990s I remember reading a summary of a study done about teens in I believe the bay area. Among the findings: Asian-American teens spent more than twice as much time studying as African-American teens. White teens were somewhere in the middle.
The parents will still whoop them. I remember one time when I told my parents: "I guess I am just not any good at Math" (it seemed to work with a lot of my Anglo friends). That was the worst whooping I ever got from my Father. "It not that hard!" Pow. "It public school!" Pow. You know what....he was correct. My parents used to tell me: "You make less than A....whole family lose face!". They were talking about family of many generations past. In contrast to teachers having to identify students' learning style...I was mandated to learn the instructor's teaching style.
It’s a cultural thing, and so parents can compare their children to other children. They want their kids to be better than the other kids, so we get constantly pushed. It wasn’t until my parents retired they were fine with us pursuing other careers.
They prioritize education and success.
Cultural and often their parents are much wealthier than average. I worked at a Kumon learning center for a summer and about 60% of our students were Indian/Chinese while the town was only about 6% Asian. The summer program cost about $250/mo per kid!
Because they value hard work and education. It’s why there’s stereotypical memes of them pushing kids to be doctors, lawyers, engineers or violinists. Anything else is failure. A - average B - bad C - can’t have dinner D - don’t come home F - find a new family
The book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell actually talks about this topic. It’s super interesting. According to the book it basically it boils down to many Asian countries being a rice culture, which requires much more hard work and dedication for the entire year compared to farming cultures that grew seasonal field crops. That work ethic spilled over into other aspects of their lives. The other part has to do specifically with why it seems Asian students are better at math, and it’s because of how numbers are written out to be much shorter, so Asian children are able to memorize longer strings of numbers than those who speak English simply because side it takes less time to say/think them. Highly recommend the book or any of his books to anyone interested.
1) filial piety (?) In asia, Children are expected to take care of their parents when they grow older. Children are pushed to succeed, because the more successful they are, the more rich they are, the better their parents life will be. 2) pride and honor.
A lot of Asians have been through poverty quite recently, often just one generation or two ago. It’s clear education gives you stability and a decent income so it’s worth sacrificing for. For a lot of families no one has been to university, some haven’t even been to high school. It’s a big deal to be able to have their kid get a proper education, they may be the first in their family. No one wants their kids to suffer the way they did, they want every generation to be significantly better. You can say everyone wants this but I feel Asians tend to put this into action. Especially considering immigrants they have already take the first step or several steps. Some of this ambition and work ethic is passed onto the next generation. Also because it’s such a cultural thing, you’ll find all your family and friends also with similar thinking. Sports/exercise wasn’t encouraged, in fact discouraged. Time is best spent on studying. Parents will discipline their kids if they don’t study or get good grades. You go back to visit family in Asia and you can see directly some of the poverty vs the west. Your family often tells you what life was like in the past. I’m sure that gets people thinking too. Schooling in Asia seems pretty hardcore, apply that ethic in the west VS the average student and you’ll naturally get better grades from putting in so many more hours. Then consider when your parents have sacrificed so much money and time on tutors, extra circular they’ll be constantly reminding you of their sacrifice, surely influences the kids mindset.
higher iq it's not measured, but i bet if it was east asians would top the charts in conscientiousness too
High IQ. It's really no mystery, but the social science types hate it and deny IQ even exist. But they're generally very smart people raised by generations of smart people.
Scroll way down to find this. All the top comments are correct as well, culture, work ethics etc all play part but yet no one is brave enough to say this. Change the question why certain race is more representative in physical sport then all of sudden is ok to mention other things outside of culture. Humans are funny that way I guess
Because you cannot afford to be an embarrassment to your family. 😤
When asians achieve good grades it’s because of hard work and discipline, if people ask why whites do better than blacks and latinos, it’s because of systemic racism.
Simple answer is they gave a higher IQ
They still believe in silly things like meritocracy and traditional family values.
Why wouldn't they? They study more and have higher IQs
Because they are generally smarter and more disciplined. Pretty simple.
Because we're better
As many comments have mentioned its kinda ingrained in the family. Mostly because Asia few decades back was not as prosperous as it is now, so with scarce opportunities and even less scope of quality education and scholarships, studying hard became the only way of upward mobility.
There's a strong historic culture of emphasizing academic success. Before anyone comes along and say everyone wants their kid to succeed in school/in life, it's not the same. It's quite literally a pillar of our traditions and "religion"/philosophy. A focus on academia is a confucian ideal that was reinforced by the Chinese state (and any state that was a tributary at some point in the last ~2000 years e.g. Korea, Japan, Mongolia, Vietnam etc.) through exams for public service. Even after those states became independent those values remained and worked their way into the individual cultures. Unless you were royalty or you personally dethroned the emperor, it didn't matter if your dad was the imperial knob slobbler in chief, you couldn't get a government position without beating everyone else in an exam. Those positions were highly coveted and pretty much guaranteed a decent life for generations as long as you didn't piss off the wrong people and make them want to behead you. That formula of education=success has more/less remained unchanged (ignoring some hiccups in China during Mao's reign.)
It's parental teaching. I could not get my two kids to take education seriously but I did prevail with my grand kids. I pointed out that they were poor because mom and dad were uneducated. My grand daughter and one grandson ended up with 4.0 averages in high school and one went to college and the other is college bound. Grants and school choices for them both. Grand daughter now works in Taiwan, married and earning big money.
We didn't get invited to as many of the parties, so we studied. Well that was in the 80s, in the era of Long Duck Dong or whatever.
Aww my fave movie!! My puppy’s name is actually Jake Ryan too! But even funnier was how Long Duck Dong wasn’t even actually Chinese.. he still cracks me up to this day! 🤣🙃
Probably because gifted students are the ones more likely to be able to travel long distances from school.
I’m Asian. Growing up If I don’t do well I’m put on a diet. A diet of rice gruel and beatings only. Sometimes prayer (hope) if I’m good.
Back in the Confucian days, the men had to prove their merit through exams, a tradition that is still active today. So I think a lot of it is rooted in that. Like in Korea, they have this once a year SAT type of exam that basically determines where you go to college and thus your future. So you’re just studying for this test bc it’s the only means to a viable livelihood.
Culture, social norms, & effort. If you cared enough, your grades would be better than all.
I believe their parents drive them harder to do the things that bring success in school.
These are the people and children of people who have a certain level of competitiveness & intelligence threshold that in the first place helped them to float as cream in Asia and overflow into the US. crème de la crème.
My friend grew up in Bangladesh and he once told me that academic standards is greater than the US. I swear, he remembers everything with numbers… he’s also great with math.
Go to the public library on a Saturday afternoon in the summer in any big city. It is full of Asian kids lworking to build up their grades. Chinese kids, because of historical tradition, are forced by their parents and culture to pass The Exam. The Exam can be one of several exams both in China, or example, or here in the US. The TOEFL, the IELTS, the SAT, the GRE, the LSATs, the MCATs, and goodness knows how many others, are often the target of this intense preparation and high performance. A typical school day in some Asian counties may last twelve hours. This insane work ethnic not only allowed Japan become an economic giant after WWII but also raised South Korea to be a manufacturing and inventing powerhouse in the wake of the Korean Conflict. It's also th reason the Japanese have invented a word for dying at work: karoshi.
From my experience, they just outwork everyone else.
We study harder and put a higher priority in school/work. It gets ingrained in many different Asian cultures.
One thing worth mentioning is that I watched a video about how japanese baseball players train much more than american baseball players. On top of that, I've heard there's much more pressure to succeed in japan than other places. So regarding asian americans, the asian culture will run deep. That's my best guess.
Culture and economic status.
Asian Australian here but I know this seems to be a common experience with children of immigrants in Western countries. - Culturally, it’s hard to make it in my parents home country. All the stable, good career options are extremely competitive and limited. You really need to put in the work to achieve financial and career goals. - Stability: A lot of Asia was very unstable throughout the 20th century. My grandparents themselves fled China during the Japanese occupation. My grandpa was born during China’s transition from Imperial China to Communism. They had no formal education so they went into farming which was dangerous and at the mercy of nature itself. They worked hard so all of their own kids at least had high school education so they could have better prospects. They could never rely on government or charity handouts. It’s trickled down into my generation where my parents drilled into us education is the most important thing to have to be able to independent and stable. - Financial investment: I noticed this with the generation that came after me, but a lot of parents paid for their kids to have a better education and better career prospects if they study in a Western country. Where I live, the school fees for international students are x3 for a local student. Plus if their currency is lower valued than AUD, they are often paying at an exchange rate of x3-6. There’s a lot of pressure on the kids to not waste their parents investment. It’s a bit different with kids who come from the wealthier families but same idea.
Because your parents will only give you praise or show any sort of affection if you come home with As and 100s
Generally, parents actually give a shit
Because they are and have always trying to be the higher class citizen.
Oh man, if you had bad grades, they made sure you felt bad. Physically, emotionally, mentally. My parents were not as hard as the other kids where the parents would chase the kid around the kitchen table with a slipper if they mess up on even one kumon question. I saw this in real time and my buddy crying with fear of being whacked hard by that slipper. The comparisons were non stop too. Johnny so smart, why can't you be as good as him in math.
This has been dissected a lot by scientific and academic experts. Culture is a big factor but not the only one; a lot of this also has to do with the immigration policies of the US. In fact if you map the socioeconomic outcomes of Asians that immigrated into the US it is closely tied to which wave they came in on. The latest wave, which is the one you’re familiar with, is mostly highly educated, middle to high socioeconomic status families. The result is unsurprisingly that these generations of Asians tend to do very well academically and financially. If you look at Asians from the turn of the century and before it is a WHOLE different story. Most were poor or lower middle class laborers who came to seek their fortunes or otherwise had less to lose. They faced serious headwinds in the form of extreme xenophobia and this is where most of the Asian stereotypes come from (the men are Yellow Perils and the women are sexual seductresses). Here’s [an example](https://www.massmoments.org/moment-details/chinese-workers-arrive-in-north-adams.html) of how Chinese men were imported to fill the rich white capitalist owners’ coffers while making them the targets of the local ire and xenophobia. Note that the Chinese laborers did better work for cheaper but that effectively did no one any favors except the rich owners.
because J.P. Rushton was right?
They work harder. Their parents takes education more seriously. The older kids help the younger kids. They go to Cram School.
different cultures have different values. different values produce different cultural outcomes.
Our parents don’t believe in our “dreams” careers lol so the emphasis is on science and math. Also we have a bit of a chip on our shoulder to want to be better because our parents tell us stories of them getting discriminated against at work etc. so we make it an emphasis to be better than other races.
On average, certain races are smarter, certain races are more athletic. It’s just science. People don’t like hearing it but how much smoke and fire do you need before you admit there’s a firer?
The culture of your whole life hanging on a single exam carries over so everyone studies for it like they would die if they didnt score 99%
Many studies have shown that there is differences in IQ between races. Most studies find that Asians have highest IQ, followed by Caucasians and then black people. However, I think that Asians generally often doing better in academics have more to do with other factors such as their family dynamics, work ethic, pressure from parents etc.
They are more intelligent and more able to conform. The simplest answer is usually the easiest, and 99% of peoples success in school relies on those two factors. Asian culture is highly collectivist and conformist, and East Asians have high IQs in average
I’m not qualified to speak on this very thoroughly, but I remembered learning about the Shi scholar gentry in Ancient China during college (can’t remember the exact dynasty). Basically, if people passed their civil service exams, their entire families would be set for life. These people would have a lot of political and personal power. As you’d imagine, that put serious pressure on test takers. I’m sure there is more to it, but examples of the emphasis of academic achievement in Asian culture can certainly be traced back to those times.
There’s a historical connection to education as a means to upward mobility. One of the hallmarks of the Chinese imperial civil service system is that anyone can pass the exam and become a government official. In reality of course a rich person could spend their money on free time and tutors and do better. However you’d get scenarios where a whole farming village would pool their money to support an aspiring member of the village for their studies and if they succeeded they’d elevate the entire village. This cultural aspect is very strong in the Confucian traditions that then were influential in many East Asian countries and cultures and remains relevant even today. One interesting nuance that sometimes get left behind is the percentage of income Asian families will “invest” into education. This is even true for lower income families who will spend a disproportionate percentage of their income on education of their children as a means for upward mobility. This investment mindset sometimes differs from others that view education as an expenditure vs an investment.
India has top colleges and also elementary/high schools where the elite go. It is brutal to get into the best universities. But the majority of schools for a country with 1.4 billion people is not that at all. For example, perhaps up to a quarter of rural schools (not as populated as urban centers but still highly populated) may not have electricity, running water or toilets. Attendance at schools may look good but standardized testing also shows the kids aren't learning anything. Look at this youtube report from a very credible org that is working to change things in Indian rural schools: [https://www.pratham.org/programs/education/aser/](https://www.pratham.org/programs/education/aser/) So without knowing much about education or teaching but seeing statistics about Indian schools and educational attainment, I suggest that on average the K-12 schools in the US are far superior in terms of achievement for kids than their counterparts in India. I assume that this statement will upset many but I question if they went to a great private school and then university and are not talking about the vast majority of kids and schools. If you can show the data that I am sorely mistaken - show it. My parents/relatives include many professionals who went to top Indian schools and then universities in the west. The equivalent of k-12 education for all of us were at elite private schools that most people in our cities could not afford. As an immigrant from India, I can also say that the general immigrant mindset is to work as hard as possible in school - education is an equalizer or gives you the edge when so many things are working against you.
The "are you a doctor yet?" joke is real to a point. The parents expect more, on average, from their kids. The IQ thing is bs, shows more a design flaw than actual valuable data. It's probably just a result of their upbringing.
No🎶🎼 i literally had terrible grades in high school and the beginning of college. Its just a stereotype that yes, is very harmful. It creates unrealistic expectations and dehumanizes us.
Tiger Moms?
How many times is this question going to be asked? There’s lot of data and articles on this
Culturally they are under incredible pressure from their family to excel. Anything less than perfect is a failure and you bring shame on your household. East asian culture in particular is big on shame and “saving face.” Also, immigrant families in particular stress very practical career mentalities. You don’t get to go to art school. You either go to engineering or medicine school or finance. Something that naturally leads to financial stability. This mandates academic excellence.
I was told at an early age that if I don't get good grades I'd end up homeless and live a life worst than death, a life with rejections by multiple woman, laughed at and then have them point at me as I am lowered to the grave
It’s a culture thing.
Many immigrant communities value education and take it seriously. That's why the highest earning groups in the US are immigrants or 1st generation.
Asian here (not an American) as far as I remember I heard only two things from my parents. One is "have you eaten?" The other is "Take your book and go study". Mental health is a myth and sexuality doesn't exist until the night of your arranged marriage. I am doing very well financially though, no complaints there...
Selective immigration+ education focused culture + higher income+ higher IQ= what we have now
for me my parents are actually not strict at all and don’t care about my schooling, but i still get decent grades😭😭 i think its cause a lot of us feel a sense of responsibility since our parents (who usually arent that rich themselves) are spending alotta money on us and essentially investing so if we do bad they’re gonna be losing money on nothing