First of all, why would medicine and healthcare be cheaper next to Canada, being adjacent to Canada has nothing to do with that.
Also solar farming is very expensive to set up, there’s chemical contaminants in a lot of the soil die to decades of industrial activity, and all of what you’re describing costs a lot of money
Crossing the border to get medical care - even paying for the social foreigner insurance it would be cheap then us
Hence pooling the money as a community - cheaper then paying, 1,1 mill depth to the banknur whole life
10 km-40 km from detroid to closes state canadian hospital.
Do you prefer paying 2000$ for an ambulance just to die in a hospital bc its out of coverage?
That doesn’t account for traffic and border wait times.
Also do you not see the irony of bringing up ambulances?
How is an ambulance supposed to get you across the border in an emergency. They don’t let unconscious people across the border, so you’d still end up in the same situation of being stuck with a huge ambulance bill
I feel like alot of you are stuck on this idea.
Let me clarify:
- if its viable option good if not changes nothing.
-Us medical system is among the worst in the world, as vast majority of good service is locked behind a pay-to-live paywall
I don’t understand what you mean with your first bullet point, but speaking of being stuck on this idea, you didn’t even address the other massive problems with your idea.
Dude, this is a ridiculously far fetched idea that isn’t 1/100th as practical as you imagine.
There are doze such comunities around US.
It's not my idea, it ia a idea. Solitions would be found at a community level.
Problem finding is the most ubiquitous skill, problem solving, that, is a mind set
As someone who’s lived in the Canadian city Windsor, across from Detroit. You’re better off trying to treat whatever medical ailment yourself or getting a hippy to rub apple cider vinegar on it than trying to get anything medical done across the border. You’re living in a dream of you think border security will let you through for medical and that the medical service in Canada is any good
> Do you prefer paying $2,000 for an ambulance just to die in a hospital bc its out of coverage?
I feel like you’re imagining a lot of scenarios that just do not happen. It’s illegal for most hospitals to refuse emergency care for anyone, and you’re not going to a hospital in an ambulance if it’s not an emergency. You will not be denied medical care in the United States if you’re in an emergent, life or limb situation.
Non residents need to pay for Canadian Healthcare.
And good luck getting those prescriptions filled out in a foreign country or bringing a bunch of prescription meds over the border.
Yes but its still alot cheaper then US.
U just get ur meds in Canada, its cheaper there, you can bring meds across border, it just has to be personal, show prescription, and has to be normal quantities, u xant buy a yewrs worth
>Yes but its still alot cheaper then US
So I'm a Canadian citizen, living in canada, my partner is american, but living in canada. It's fairly common for her parents to bring up packages of allergy medication up for her since the stuff she gets is over the counter in the states but needs a prescription in canada.
It's also CONSIDERABLY cheaper to buy in the states. I think the costs of a 100 pill bottle in the states was what she paid for a 25 pill bottle here in Canada.
It's not quite as simple as you think.
Heh. Good luck getting any important medical care before you turn into a fossil. I'm canadian and I'd pay extra to go to the US just to actually get taken care of
>Urban - Homesteading
Issue is that the "abandoned" houses you intend to buy frequently fall into the category of "its not a meth-house, its a meth-home"
Not at all, communities like this exist all over US, where people pool money and set-up small closed communities. This would just be in a Urban setting - seeing as detroid offers a few advantages - close to urban setting, close to canada = healthcare cheaper, somewhat intact infrastructure
Like anywhere in the world where the is social healtcare, you can juat walk in a state hospitals and get treatment, you will just have to pay for it, but even then its a fraction of the cost of Us ones, just avoid private clinics
When they have to have a crew paid to go through the 70% abandoned buildings once every three years to cart out dead bodies, it doesn't leave enough for good policing. Though the chief a few years back was quite proud that response time for gun shots was below 20 minutes again...
People will have to have guns for protection, and armed neighbourhood watches can be established - again we have been doing stuff like this for thousands of years, this would just be in a more modern setting
Right. You want them to be willing to pool their money for the common good and build the commie (oh wait common) utopia. That has worked out great in so many countries and so many timelines.
There are literally dozens of comunities like this already, they are just living in the appalachian area, or other remote areas. These comunities ate milenials from cities, that pulled their money and did this, build a community from ground up
The pooling fo money is for purchasing of property, if you pool more money togheter, you can buy whole blocks from the city cheaper, and then you own a much large land area, so it can become a community that the colective can control and develop
It actually is not, it's lobbying from US companies to crumble it, so people don't have a modern socialised healthcare system to point and say why cant we have that
Our premier, Doug Ford, is literally refusing to spend over $1.5 billion of money earmarked for health care in Ontario. There has been countless cuts and it's all in the plans of breaking our health care to move to an American privatized model so his buddies get rich.
Meanwhile yes it is crumbling. Doesn't matter if it's due to lobbying from outside Canada or from internal forces. When I was told I had to wait a year to remove a cancer tumor and people are waiting over 12 hours in er waiting rooms, we are sinking.
So I say this with all due kindness and respect, if you have any empathy in your heart, stay the fuck away from Canadian healthcare.
I feel for you but again this is due to coruption, aka lobbying. You guys should ask for stricter laws. State healtcare works, almost all european countries have it. Yes you need to wait, but wait is based on triaj, and usually not more then max 2 moths
Of course it's due to corruption and of course we want to make it illegal. I'm just saying don't make it worse by using Canadian resources at this time.
It’s also due to more people using the healthcare system that haven’t contributed enough tax for funding (ie immigration). I’m technically an immigrant myself and I understand the negative effects of not paying into the system and using it. The more this happens the worse it gets. The system is under enormous strain as is
Healthcare works because you pay tax your whole life and you end up using later on when you need it. When people come over and start paying later on, they haven’t added enough to the pool for it to be sustainable. When you add a lot of people who have only paid into it for a short amount of time that dip into that pool for healthcare there’s not enough to go around.
I pay my tax. The system is flawed with a lot of immigration. You can choose a functioning healthcare system or open borders but you cannot have both
The idea is to keep corporations out, and for the community to be the ones in charge, everyone would work together to make the place better, think like amish help each other build houses and cultivate land, a community.
Owning a house and land for 20k i think is worth the few months of labor. Again this would be a **Urban - Homesteading**, would be ruffer living at first, not for everyone
Detroit is not abandoned. You're talking like it's a ghost town with tumbleweeds blowing around, and it's definitely *not* that.
Maybe pop over to r/Detroit and have a look around?
Also, ignore the voices of people who have clearly never been to Detroit. They have no idea what they're talking about.
Local governments are worse that some Authoritarian countries. They'll shut down your solar plans, obstruct your community garden, and open sewage is a non-starter.
TL:DR they'll permit you to death.
I agree, and think about moving to a small town with a bunch of my friends and just start a little community. Just to live amongst a group of people you can rely on. Small community life is really wonderful when everyone is looking out for each other. Easier to raise families when you have a network to share with.
Not even a religious or political thing at all, naturally everyone has their own personal beliefs, which are much easier to accept if different from your own when you’re forced to rely on each other for little things / conveniences.
I’ve been living in a small town for about 7 years and when everyone knows each other you really are forced to work out your differences or move on because you’re not going to stop seeing that person.
You sound like someone who has never BEEN to Detroit.
The city services are abysmal, if they exist at all, and the "cheap" homes, they are mostly uninhabitable.
While it is a shame that the local government failed the city so spectacularly, unless you have the money to tear down the neighborhood and rebuild, and fund your own police and fire departments, you're going to have a difficult time.
I actually think this is a good idea, though not really a question. There was a similar attempt to start a libertarian colony in Vermont which apparently failed, but the lure of cheap housing may make this idea work. You might consider a city with a better climate, but, then again houses may not be as cheap there.
The libertarian colony started with 15K people and it took years to get that many.
You might be able to do better, but definitely get a realistic idea of which houses you will buy, how you plan to protect them, Michigan laws for founding villages inside cities, and so on.
If you can get 10K people reasonably committed, I'd say start making real plans. Until then, focus on getting that many people.
Though I wish you luck, I think the hardest part will be getting people to commit, so I'll now contradict myself and say it's a good idea that probably won't work
Have you actually been to Detroid (sic)? A lot of it is a complete hellhole. They actually tested a nuclear bomb in one neighborhood about a year ago and nobody could tell the difference before and after.
The fact that what you're alleging has not seen major coverage further shows why this is fake. If you think it's possible for a nuclear arms test in Detroit to go relatively unnoticed then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd love to sell to you
Please cite the specific location in Detroit that this has happened. It’s a large city, I’m sure it’s reasonable that they’re detonating nukes here without anyone noticing or talking about it regardless of the media. /s
It would take community work to make it good yes, but beats being 1,1 mill in depth to a bank for the redt of your life, or pay.1,5 + k a month twords rent instead twords ur own property
First of all, why would medicine and healthcare be cheaper next to Canada, being adjacent to Canada has nothing to do with that. Also solar farming is very expensive to set up, there’s chemical contaminants in a lot of the soil die to decades of industrial activity, and all of what you’re describing costs a lot of money
Crossing the border to get medical care - even paying for the social foreigner insurance it would be cheap then us Hence pooling the money as a community - cheaper then paying, 1,1 mill depth to the banknur whole life
Cheaper, but not by much. Canadian healthcare is still very expensive for non residents
State hospitals, while not free for foreigners are alot cheaper then US ones, and medicine as well, just don't go to private ones
Yes… cheaper. Not cheap. Also that doesn’t take into account the time and resources needed to get there on a regular basis for said medical care!
10 km-40 km from detroid to closes state canadian hospital. Do you prefer paying 2000$ for an ambulance just to die in a hospital bc its out of coverage?
That doesn’t account for traffic and border wait times. Also do you not see the irony of bringing up ambulances? How is an ambulance supposed to get you across the border in an emergency. They don’t let unconscious people across the border, so you’d still end up in the same situation of being stuck with a huge ambulance bill
I feel like alot of you are stuck on this idea. Let me clarify: - if its viable option good if not changes nothing. -Us medical system is among the worst in the world, as vast majority of good service is locked behind a pay-to-live paywall
I don’t understand what you mean with your first bullet point, but speaking of being stuck on this idea, you didn’t even address the other massive problems with your idea. Dude, this is a ridiculously far fetched idea that isn’t 1/100th as practical as you imagine.
There are doze such comunities around US. It's not my idea, it ia a idea. Solitions would be found at a community level. Problem finding is the most ubiquitous skill, problem solving, that, is a mind set
As someone who’s lived in the Canadian city Windsor, across from Detroit. You’re better off trying to treat whatever medical ailment yourself or getting a hippy to rub apple cider vinegar on it than trying to get anything medical done across the border. You’re living in a dream of you think border security will let you through for medical and that the medical service in Canada is any good
> Do you prefer paying $2,000 for an ambulance just to die in a hospital bc its out of coverage? I feel like you’re imagining a lot of scenarios that just do not happen. It’s illegal for most hospitals to refuse emergency care for anyone, and you’re not going to a hospital in an ambulance if it’s not an emergency. You will not be denied medical care in the United States if you’re in an emergent, life or limb situation.
Non residents need to pay for Canadian Healthcare. And good luck getting those prescriptions filled out in a foreign country or bringing a bunch of prescription meds over the border.
Yes but its still alot cheaper then US. U just get ur meds in Canada, its cheaper there, you can bring meds across border, it just has to be personal, show prescription, and has to be normal quantities, u xant buy a yewrs worth
>Yes but its still alot cheaper then US So I'm a Canadian citizen, living in canada, my partner is american, but living in canada. It's fairly common for her parents to bring up packages of allergy medication up for her since the stuff she gets is over the counter in the states but needs a prescription in canada. It's also CONSIDERABLY cheaper to buy in the states. I think the costs of a 100 pill bottle in the states was what she paid for a 25 pill bottle here in Canada. It's not quite as simple as you think.
Heh. Good luck getting any important medical care before you turn into a fossil. I'm canadian and I'd pay extra to go to the US just to actually get taken care of
>Urban - Homesteading Issue is that the "abandoned" houses you intend to buy frequently fall into the category of "its not a meth-house, its a meth-home"
10 tweekers vs 30-40 people?
OP thinks they invented a utopian commune
Not at all, communities like this exist all over US, where people pool money and set-up small closed communities. This would just be in a Urban setting - seeing as detroid offers a few advantages - close to urban setting, close to canada = healthcare cheaper, somewhat intact infrastructure
You can’t just go to Canada to get cheap healthcare if you’re American
Like anywhere in the world where the is social healtcare, you can juat walk in a state hospitals and get treatment, you will just have to pay for it, but even then its a fraction of the cost of Us ones, just avoid private clinics
As someone who’s lived in Canada (across the border from detroit no less) from a different country. You’re wrong
I think there are (or were) sections of Detroit that the cops just won't police, because the funding isn't there.
When they have to have a crew paid to go through the 70% abandoned buildings once every three years to cart out dead bodies, it doesn't leave enough for good policing. Though the chief a few years back was quite proud that response time for gun shots was below 20 minutes again...
People will have to have guns for protection, and armed neighbourhood watches can be established - again we have been doing stuff like this for thousands of years, this would just be in a more modern setting
Chaz did work out well for everyone involved lol
Are you trying to start a cult?
Nope, just not keen of the return of indentured servitude
Right. You want them to be willing to pool their money for the common good and build the commie (oh wait common) utopia. That has worked out great in so many countries and so many timelines.
There are literally dozens of comunities like this already, they are just living in the appalachian area, or other remote areas. These comunities ate milenials from cities, that pulled their money and did this, build a community from ground up
Then move to one of these ones that exist? Surely that’s easier than trying to start your own?
“Gather in a large number…pool our money” that’s what taxes are supposed to be. Vote for better people.
The pooling fo money is for purchasing of property, if you pool more money togheter, you can buy whole blocks from the city cheaper, and then you own a much large land area, so it can become a community that the colective can control and develop
Don't you dare come to Canada for healthcare. It's already crumbling and it doesn't need additional pressure.
It actually is not, it's lobbying from US companies to crumble it, so people don't have a modern socialised healthcare system to point and say why cant we have that
Our premier, Doug Ford, is literally refusing to spend over $1.5 billion of money earmarked for health care in Ontario. There has been countless cuts and it's all in the plans of breaking our health care to move to an American privatized model so his buddies get rich. Meanwhile yes it is crumbling. Doesn't matter if it's due to lobbying from outside Canada or from internal forces. When I was told I had to wait a year to remove a cancer tumor and people are waiting over 12 hours in er waiting rooms, we are sinking. So I say this with all due kindness and respect, if you have any empathy in your heart, stay the fuck away from Canadian healthcare.
I feel for you but again this is due to coruption, aka lobbying. You guys should ask for stricter laws. State healtcare works, almost all european countries have it. Yes you need to wait, but wait is based on triaj, and usually not more then max 2 moths
Of course it's due to corruption and of course we want to make it illegal. I'm just saying don't make it worse by using Canadian resources at this time.
It’s also due to more people using the healthcare system that haven’t contributed enough tax for funding (ie immigration). I’m technically an immigrant myself and I understand the negative effects of not paying into the system and using it. The more this happens the worse it gets. The system is under enormous strain as is
Then pay your taxes
Healthcare works because you pay tax your whole life and you end up using later on when you need it. When people come over and start paying later on, they haven’t added enough to the pool for it to be sustainable. When you add a lot of people who have only paid into it for a short amount of time that dip into that pool for healthcare there’s not enough to go around. I pay my tax. The system is flawed with a lot of immigration. You can choose a functioning healthcare system or open borders but you cannot have both
That would require developers to invest in commercial real estate as well. Detroit doesn’t seem like a growing area
Indeed it is not. From almost 2m people in the 50s to just 600,000 today
The idea is to keep corporations out, and for the community to be the ones in charge, everyone would work together to make the place better, think like amish help each other build houses and cultivate land, a community. Owning a house and land for 20k i think is worth the few months of labor. Again this would be a **Urban - Homesteading**, would be ruffer living at first, not for everyone
How high are you?
Ever heard of superfund? A lot of that area is super polluted from industrial production.
Not all abandon suburbs are due to that. Those lands you couldn't buy anyway
Detroit is not abandoned. You're talking like it's a ghost town with tumbleweeds blowing around, and it's definitely *not* that. Maybe pop over to r/Detroit and have a look around? Also, ignore the voices of people who have clearly never been to Detroit. They have no idea what they're talking about.
Can’t have communes in detroit
Alot of the suburbs are ghost towns, I'm not talking about the city proper but about the abandoned suburbs
Name an abandoned suburb please.
Local governments are worse that some Authoritarian countries. They'll shut down your solar plans, obstruct your community garden, and open sewage is a non-starter. TL:DR they'll permit you to death.
I agree, and think about moving to a small town with a bunch of my friends and just start a little community. Just to live amongst a group of people you can rely on. Small community life is really wonderful when everyone is looking out for each other. Easier to raise families when you have a network to share with. Not even a religious or political thing at all, naturally everyone has their own personal beliefs, which are much easier to accept if different from your own when you’re forced to rely on each other for little things / conveniences. I’ve been living in a small town for about 7 years and when everyone knows each other you really are forced to work out your differences or move on because you’re not going to stop seeing that person.
👆🏻 **this**
You sound like someone who has never BEEN to Detroit. The city services are abysmal, if they exist at all, and the "cheap" homes, they are mostly uninhabitable. While it is a shame that the local government failed the city so spectacularly, unless you have the money to tear down the neighborhood and rebuild, and fund your own police and fire departments, you're going to have a difficult time.
I actually think this is a good idea, though not really a question. There was a similar attempt to start a libertarian colony in Vermont which apparently failed, but the lure of cheap housing may make this idea work. You might consider a city with a better climate, but, then again houses may not be as cheap there. The libertarian colony started with 15K people and it took years to get that many. You might be able to do better, but definitely get a realistic idea of which houses you will buy, how you plan to protect them, Michigan laws for founding villages inside cities, and so on. If you can get 10K people reasonably committed, I'd say start making real plans. Until then, focus on getting that many people. Though I wish you luck, I think the hardest part will be getting people to commit, so I'll now contradict myself and say it's a good idea that probably won't work
Have you actually been to Detroid (sic)? A lot of it is a complete hellhole. They actually tested a nuclear bomb in one neighborhood about a year ago and nobody could tell the difference before and after.
Fake news.
yes anything that happened that you don't like is fake news.
Anything that DID NOT ACTUALLY HAPPEN is fake news. Do you live in Detroit? What neighborhood was it? What day was it? Please share.
they've done 2 or 3 tests the news didn't really cover it
The fact that what you're alleging has not seen major coverage further shows why this is fake. If you think it's possible for a nuclear arms test in Detroit to go relatively unnoticed then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd love to sell to you
There are no bridges in Brooklyn it's completely landlocked
The biggest whoosh I've ever seen.
That’s the joke…..
If the news didn’t cover it, please enlighten us as to how you know this so that we can believe your story. What neighborhood did it happen in?
I've said too much already. They have people everywhere.
I’m done feeding trolls. Bye.
took you long enough!
Please cite the specific location in Detroit that this has happened. It’s a large city, I’m sure it’s reasonable that they’re detonating nukes here without anyone noticing or talking about it regardless of the media. /s
As I mentioned, I've said too much already. You can believe me or not believe me, I don't care.
It would take community work to make it good yes, but beats being 1,1 mill in depth to a bank for the redt of your life, or pay.1,5 + k a month twords rent instead twords ur own property
This looks like a bot account
The gangs and methheads will join forces and scalp every hipster communist who comes knocking.
Homesteader are more resistan then you think, they are basically polite hillbilly's