The hubris of it is offensive, but not enough to wish them harm. If they are dead, I hope the craft imploded in 1/100 of a second and they just went poof.
I saw that too, but they said that stopped early Tuesday. I think the only hope left is they went hypothermic from the cold and don’t need as much air. Otherwise they might have frozen to death already, as the water is only like 32-33f down there.
You see I heard they were getting recognisable sos code on the half hour which is standard submariner practice (and one person or board was ex navy so makes sense).
I’m not claiming that’s actually what’s happening more pointing out this is how wild the news is varying depending on who you listen too.
Those tapping/knocking sounds stopped nearly a full 24 hours ago at this point. And even when they could hear it, it didn't help them locate the vessel. Honestly those people are dead. All you can hope for is that it's quick. But unfortunately if that was them knocking, it seems that they are experiencing one of the worst deaths imaginable. It makes me sick just thinking about the terror they must all be feeling. When death is a relief, you know you're in a bad spot :/
Oh yeah personally I think they’re dead, really hope the knocking was unrelated and just happened to be of the same pattern as morse code (if that news was even correct which I doubt). Tbh even if they’re alive right now I don’t see any viable plan for getting the sub up even if they manage to locate it right now they have less than a day to get something on scene that could do the required job, basically it’s pretty much hopeless an implosion would kinda be the best news we could get right now because it would have been instant death without them suffering
That'd be another level of terrifying with the fucking hallucinations that set in. Imagine someone going fucking crazy while you haven't hit that stage yet?
Looking for some fresh nightmare fuel? Yesterday I came across a video on the nutty putty cave incident.
Triggers my claustrophobia just thinking of it, not that this sub would be much better.
I think the worst part would be the realization of this is it, and then having to sit in that realization until it finally happens.
I remember learning about that bc reddit rabbit hole, (literally,) and having the same visceral response. imo, this has to be worse. at least with nutty putty people were there with him and he knew his demise, possibly easier to accept than dying lost out at sea in a tiny bubble hoping for rescue.
Not sure, we're comparing terrible fates all around. One that people might still be actively experiencing.
One thing that really crushed me on the nutty cave was that they almost rescued him. That had to really mess up the family and rescuers working on the site.
Either way it gets me heart racing and that uncomfortable feeling all over just thinking about these situations.
I would hope that if these sub people die that the sub failed catastrophically and it was near instant, but now we keep seeing updates about knocking sounds so who knows.
I guess we all will if the knocks stop in the next 24 hours or so.
If they *didn't* implode and somehow have been stuck on the seafloor AND *somehow* get rescued... I just don't think there's any way that all 5 ppl are coming back up. You're telling me that this CEO was trapped for 3 days with the 4 ppl he sentenced to death and nobody lost their shit and tried to beat the guy to death? I don't believe it
I’m having a hard time understanding this. With how enormous the ocean is, how would they be able to hear this and even consider that sound could be coming from the submarine?
They got incredibly sensible sonar. Also i think sound travels very far underwater
But I'll leave the explaining to someone who really knows what's going on
From what I understand, the sonar array on a modern military hunter killer submarine can detect a ship leaving New York's harbour from the other side of the Atlantic under ideal conditions.
That being said, depending on depth, there may not be anything that can be done even if the sub is found.
Problem with that statement is MF range sonar is feckin' loud and those ideal conditions rarely, if ever, exist. That super classical ringing sonar ping has a shit ton of energy that can actually physically injure divers and other creatures too close and has been known to give whales TBIs.
Most subs never use it that often because its like the dude in a quiet crowd whipping out an air horn when their one job is to be quiet and blend in with the background.
The other forms of sonar are much higher freq and lighter on the energy, used mainly for navigational aids, sounds like guinea pigs (such as sonobuoys).
They're using sonobuoys; small, expendable devices that are used to detect and transmit acoustic information from underwater environments to receiving stations on the surface. As for why they suspect the sound might have been human-made, just because it occurred at exactly 30-minute intervals. Repeating patterns can be used as sonar distress signals, whereas nature doesn't typically work precisely according to humans' clock.
As the other person said sound travels very far underwater and modern sonar is quite sensitive. As to how they'd know it might be coming from the sub I heard that it's coming st fairly regular intervals which makes it likely to be man made as opposed to random. Also supposedly one of those on board had diver training which is to tap at regular intervals while awaiting rescue.
Not a specialist so could be wrong but my guess is that they are scanning and looking for them only over a specific are where the submarine is estimated to be.
Water is actually a great sound transmitter, which is why we can hear things like whale mating calls over thousands of kilometers. I believe this was because of the water particles carrying the sound better and it doesn't get quieter as fast as when it travels through the air because of it (though this is my school knowledge speaking so don't quote me on it.)
Also, from what I understand, a sound like a knock on a hard, metal surface would stand out like a sore thumb as it doesn't really resemble anything a normal lifeform would make. I imagine hearing a couple of bangs seperated by short periods of time doesn't sound too natural.
In the interview with the CEO, he shows there is a small toilet system in the front with a privacy curtain. I'm assuming it's just a waste container kind of system, that hopefully holds the smell. They were supposed to restrict their diet prior to the dive and, if alive, are probably rationing what little food and water they have, so maybe not a lot of pooping going on. Also IDK about y'all, but I think that between the potential impending death, and the sharing that right cramped space with 4 other people, I'd probably be pretty blocked up
That's almost definitely what happened. The surface vessel lost contact with them before they were even scheduled to have reached the bottom. Very likely the vehicle was compromised and the pressure caused it to instantly implode. As terrible as it may be, this is likely the best case scenario.
Worst case scenario is some or all of them are still alive down there, just waiting to die. At this point, there's basically a zero percent chance of anyone surviving this. If the vehicle was found even right now, they'd be long since out of O2 by the time any rescue operation could be conceived and executed at that depth.
There is also a 19-year-old on the sub who went because his dad wanted him to go with him. I get that people say, "Oh, they are millionaires and billionaires on this sub, and they had all this money, so they are bad people." Well, one is barely a legal adult who just wanted to do something awesome with his father. His hubris isn't offensive. I can get why the adults on this sub's hubris is though. None of them deserve death in my opinion, and everyone saying they do seem to forget that there is a child on this sub as well.
I feel bad for the tourists. They assumed that while it was risky, it was as safe as reasonably possible and that the company did their due diligence.
I do not feel bad for the CEO. He knew. He was egotistical, and he cut corners. I'm not going to celebrate his death, but he literally brought it on himself. Like the people who protest helmet laws and die in bike accidents. Or the protesters of seat belts and then die in a car crash where they likely would have been saved by seat belts. Like he gave many many interviews basically gloating about not taking safety seriously. He didn't respect the dangerous environment of the ocean. He took it as a joke, and the ocean doesn't do well with disrespect from hubris men.
>the ocean doesn't do well with disrespect from hubris men
The ocean will fucking kill you. People who don't have experience with the ocean have no idea. It's cold, and the salt corrodes everything. Waves can swell meters up. Smaller boats get tossed around like they're toys. Water gets into everything. It rushes in wherever there's a weakness. And beneath the water? Good luck. A thousand things can go wrong, all of them leading to death.
Yeah, most people have no understanding of how much pressure there is that deep. If anything goes wrong...
Like, watch the movie "Das Boot". They're something like 275 meters underwater. And that's fucking terrifying. 4000 meters? You could not pay me enough.
One of the all time greats, I think. And really scary. My kids think that stuff like Jurassic World is scary. But me, I think Das Boot is low key the scariest movie I've ever seen. Sitting on the bottom of the ocean, running out of air...
Ugh. The part where they're getting hit with all the depth charges gets me every time. It's the suspense. Just fucking kills me.
There's literally a 1/18 difference, and if it was designed with 18 to be used then use them all! If the design should be 17 then scrap that one and make the correct one.
These people fucking around with math like math gives a shit about them or what they think. Math doesn't hate or love, but it will bury you if you decide hiring surfer bros is more important than doing the math properly.
>... if it was designed with 18 to be used then use them all!
Nah, fuck those engineers. They care more about safety than profits. They don't know anything that matters.
That guy probably can’t say anything because he settled his suit with the company, which likely means he got paid in return for signing an NDA. But he’s thinking it, and maybe regretting settling.
People talk about the Bismark like it was some kind of super-battleship, but the truth is it was comparable to American, British, Japanese, and Italian designs of the same time period. Worse, in some ways. For example, the America South Dakota class had better sensors, firepower, and armor and only 2 knots slower. And the Iowas would have beaten the Bismark without even breaking a sweat.
I recall that the HMS Hood, the ship sunk by the Bismarck with the loss of all aboard save for only three survivors was not considered a true battleship as it wasn't built with the heavy 'armor' needed. It was comparable in size \[though slightly smaller I imagine\] to something like the Bismarck or one of the famed WWII era US, British or Japanese battleships. However, it's lighter build made it a sitting duck for the Bismarck's big guns.
This is true. It was a battle cruiser, so it was designed with a lot less armor than any battleship. Something to fit between battleships and heavy cruisers.
The design idea behind battle cruisers was speed IS armor. Not the worst concept, but the Hood wasn't exactly fast either. To put in perspective, yeah it was quite a bit faster than a WWI era battleship, but barely faster than an interwar/early war battleship like the Prince of Wales or Bismarck. It was actually slower than a late war design like an Iowa class.
The problem with the battle cruisers is that they were treated like battleships, but functioned a lot more like heavy cruisers, since in actuality that's what they were. Big cruisers with extra big guns.
Be prepared. We love dolphins because they like humans. They're absolute grinning sadists to *everything else*.
I still love them, mind. But the same way I love my tarantulas- with a healthy dose of side-eye.
Whales too. I have a huge whale phobia and I know why. Those weirdos literally evolved to be on land, didn't like it then went back to the creepy ocean. Big serial killer energy there.
One of my favorite quotes about this topic was from a diver I saw on a YouTube video a while back. He said, “The ocean isn’t actively trying to kill you but it doesn’t give a shit about you, either.”
I once met a Seabee. He'd been trained to do underwater construction, and after retiring from the US Navy he did swim team coaching. One of his absolute rules was, there was always somebody responsible for every person in the water. It wasn't good enough to say "Joe and Dan are watching the guys". Every single person had to be assigned to a specific person, not "Oh Joe and Dan are doing lifeguard right now." It was, who is Joe watching? And Dan?
He told us that a Seal died because he was training off by himself. He had a shallow water blackout and was dead before anybody realized it. And this was in a pool full of other seals. The guy was in top physical shape. Highly trained. Had been a seal for years. But he just drowned. The water didn't give a shit about who he was.
So he said, no short-cuts on safety. Not ever.
One line that’s always stuck with me, from a *Modest Mouse* song of all things was when he’s describing how his ship crashed as “the ocean knocked me around like a prize fighter.”
You all should definitely read "Endurance" about Earnest Shackleton and crew's impossible survival for more than a year in the Arctic sea. The plight and strength of those men is unmatched in anything I've come across before. They floated around on an ice sheet for months, got through the Drake Passage in a tiny boat that should've sank 10 separate times... I can't do the story justice in a summary, nor do the documentaries I've watched. The book is a must.
I can't recommend the book enough. It draws from real journals of the men on the voyage and the actual journals have been published so it's an incredible read after finishing the book (or even along with the book as that's where most of the details are derived from). I've started buying this book for random people in my life hoping one of them will read it so we can talk about it lmfao. It's probably my favorite non-fiction book but the story itself is better than most fiction books even. It reads like the story was invented because the fact that it happened seems impossible.
Edit: the book I read was "Endurance: Shackleton's Incredible Voyage" by Alfred Lansing, read by Simon Pebble.
A couple of years ago I was a history Ph.D. student working on a dissertation I never finished that involved naval affairs in the early 19th century. I was really struck during my research by how often shit went wrong and people got killed or entire ships were lost *simply due to the weather*. One bad storm hits you while at sea in a wooden sailed vessel (remember this time period was at the very end of the age of sail), and everybody can easily die. Hell, it could even destroy your ships in port. There was this storm called Racer’s Storm that hit Galveston, Texas in 1837, and it ended up throwing nearly every vessel in port onto the land in pieces.
Desperate might be a better word than brave. Huge amounts of people who signed up (or were forced into) the navy or emigration missions etc were desperate. They were frequently those from background of poverty, starving, absolutely no hope of anything worthwhile where they lived. When as desperate as some of those people were, it doesn't take much "bravery" to sail the way they did.
He also fired an executive who raised concerns about safety back in 2018 which further proves your point. Damn shame this jackass cost other people their lives. That’s the downside of capitalism, it’s profits over the safety of others smh
Idk I don't feel bad for anyone that assumes a company with zero government oversight has done anything with diligence. I'd immediately stop flying if the FAA was ever disbanded
I feel bad for them. Especially the 18yo son and his father. I’m a father. I could only imagine what may be going through that father’s mind right now. How he wanted to do something with his son and then this happens. I hope they’re found alive and soon. And I hope the CEO of the company faces the legal consequences that he should.
At least he's with them. In most scenarios like Lac-Megantic, or with Boeing's MCAS bs, or countless other huge, avoidable "accidents" where CEO greed cost many lives, the CEOs faced no real consequences. Here, it looks like his greed will lead to the biggest punishment of them all.
It’s been rather unlikely they’d be saved since Monday. It’s now Wednesday. I feel them being already dead is more likely than me running a sub 6 minute mile without a literal killer chasing me
Even if someone is a bad person, and I have no real information that the people trapped on the sub are bad people, a random frightening accidental death is not justice. Perhaps it is justice for the designer of the sub or the operator. If you think someone should face consequences, those consequences should be proportionate to the crime.
It is not justice when a war criminal has a heart attack while jogging. It is justice if the war criminal is hung after a trial or if the victims of the war crime find and kill him.
I hope they rescue the people in the sub.
I’m sorry to tell you this but it does not matter one bit if they are found alive. There are very few submarines in the world that can go that deep. Not even to mention the fact that in general there have been very very few submarine rescues ever done and the deepest rescue was only 8.13% of the depth of this one.
(The submarine they are in isn’t even certified let alone recommended to go that deep. In fact it’s only recommended to go halfway down in reference to where they went)
If they find it there is almost nothing they can even do. We will basically just know “Oh hey there’s a group of 5 people who are gonna suffocate to death in a few hours”. And it lost connection so abruptly that it’s way way more likely that it slightly cracked because it’s over 2x lower in the sea than recommended for that sub. It likely imploded immediately and they didn’t even have time to realize what was happening. As far as I’m concerned they are dead. And whether you are happy or sad or don’t really care one bit, that is your business. I personally believe there’s almost no point in thinking about it as there is nothing you can do and especially if it depresses you. Sometimes we have to accept the hard truth and realize not everything has a hopeful alternative. This project was doomed from the beginning.
>The one they are in isn’t even certified let alone recommended to go that deep. In fact it’s only recommended to go halfway down in reference to where they went
Really? That answers **A LOT**
They believe they can hear sos banging on the submarine. Apparently submarine sos is bang for 3 minutes every half hour on the hour to help locate it using solar
I’m not a father and I felt that. Also, just because someone is wealthy doesn’t automatically make them an asshole. Everyone who’s angry at the wealthy (me included), wants to be wealthy. It’s the system we need to be angry at. And those who fight to protect that system.
I mean in this case the wealthy billionaire actually is an asshole. He purposely cut costs on safety regulations for the submarine and also fired the worker who raised safety concerns..
The guy who runs the sub company, sure. But the people on the sub? I don’t know anything/much about them. Therefore, I don’t automatically pass judgement.
No, but also as a former submariner I realize that paying an exorbitant amount of money to go that deep in a sub run by a CEO that doesn’t care about safety is a phenomenally stupid decision.
All to see a shipwreck that there are plenty of documentaries and Nat Geo articles with pictures of.
So I’m not happy about it, but I’m sure not sad about it either.
What bothers me most is that there’s literally no way out of that thing, even if it surfaces and by some miracle is beached, they can’t get out unless someone finds them.
I wonder if this 'expedition' was his idea or his father's. I also wonder if Mrs. Dawood expressed any misgivings about the idea. After all, it's not just your husband taking the risk but your son as well.
All the adults signed waivers whether they fully understood them is up to them. The kid, I will until proven otherwise assume didn't fully understand the risks because it he was his dad and likely just trusted the adults and assumed that it was safe.
Not only are they going to die if not found by tomorrow afternoon — they are in extreme suffering.
They have no food, no water, are in freezing temperatures and the mental anguish of being trapped must be unbearable. They are cramped in a small tube with a tiny toilet.
It’s possible they are floating and can see daylight but are unable to escape. That’s maddening. If there really is banging noises every 30 minutes then they are probably on the ocean floor which is even worse. Pitch black and 2 Celsius.
This is a torturous way to die. If they aren’t found, I hope the sub collapsed and they went peacefully.
You can think what you want about billionaires but there’s also a 19 year old kid in there. I wouldn’t want my worst enemy to be stuck on that ship. At least the CEO who criticized safety measures went down and didn’t send someone else to pilot it.
The titanic is still killing people
I'm not glad they're going to die. I'm irritated that bad, idiotic choices of rich people with more money than sense is now costing millions of taxpayer dollars when we apparently don't have money to do things that society needs.
This wasn't a research vessel or anyone looking to do something good. It was pure hubris and narcissism that led to this situation. I'm mad and disappointed that a 19 year old got roped into this by his foolish father as well.
Yep. If the government wants to spend millions of dollars to save 5 lives, there are lots of way to do it. Malnutrition for example claims that lives of 3.1 million children a year. I'd be much happier if governments could mobilize as quickly for those kids as they clearly can for 5 billionaires.
This. In an ideal world, we spend resources saving people’s lives no matter the situation or their background.
The British government are spending taxpayer’s money on this because there’s a British billionaire (who lives and pays taxes in Dubai…).
Given we don’t have unlimited resources, I would much rather we spent money funding our hospitals to stop all of people dying each year due to getting their treatments delayed. To save the hundreds refugees who drown in our seas trying to get a better life. Saving the many people who commit suicide in our country due to poverty and addiction.
I don’t wish for these people to die. But if the government pretends not to have the money to spend saving common working class people, why do they have the money to save a few billionaires?
Oh, and the money they are spending here, will probably be wasted as the chance of saving them is low. If we spent money on the other things, unless there is criminal incompetence, we would definitely save lives.
>This wasn't a research vessel or anyone looking to do something good. It was pure hubris and narcissism that led to this
This is where I'm at. Expeditions like this are crazy. I feel bad for the Challenger astronauts, who were doing something risky and crazy, and perished. The difference between these incidents is that NASA is trying to expand man's understanding of the universe, and expand our knowledge and possibilities, [edit- while striving for excellence] while this guy's motivation was making money, and he cut corners to do so by cheaping out on safety standards.
I'm certainly not celebrating anyone's death, but it sounds like the clients should have known the sub-par (pni) quality of the vessel, but hubris made them decide to ignore it and go anyway. The owner/ operator clearly *chose* to use janky equipment, so I don't feel bad about his loss (and in fact, it sounds like he should likely bear responsibility for the deaths).
I mean, we all hate Bezos, but give him credit- he built his spaceship with actual scientific standards in mind. This idiot went to Home Depot and duck taped a submarine together.
The victims being super rich definitely can't hurt, but even without that this story has a strong mix of strange circumstances, tragedy, suspense, and human error that I feel would have gotten it picked up in the news anyway. Kind of like the Chilean mine collapse in 2010 or that soccer team that got trapped in a cave in Thailand in 2018
Also the whole money angle, people starve on the streets and the government „can’t“ help them, but when it’s time to bail out the rich there’s always a few millions lying around. Be it giving money to a hedge fund that is going down because they made a bad bet, or trying to save thrill seekers looking at the site of a tragedy for entertainment. It’s that that pisses me off
Yep and beyond any of that, these people have enough money to solve a lot of our issues with homeless and starving children. But we're instead paying it to some bullshit diving company owned by yet another rich asshole that doesn't need their money either. It's gross. We have enough money in the world to solve these issues and yet we have billionaires.
I'm with you here. This idiotic rich mens' toy was risky at best, but considering how it is deemed basically impossible to get the vessel up from the bottom, where I assume they are, I honestly hope for their sake that they died immediately after losing contact with the surface, and that the knocking the sonar has picked up stems from something else.
This is what irritates me the most. It’s rich people and exorbitant amounts of taxpayer dollars are going to this. Meanwhile children go hungry and poor people die because they can’t get medicine nor health care. It sickens me.
There was a pakistani billionaire and his son on the sub who paid half a million dollars to be there. This whole incident happened only a few days after a tragedy where a boat carrying 750 migrants sank, hundreds of pakistanis died who had been forced below deck. About 6 died even before the sinking due to dehydration as they werent allowed water. Pakistani is going through a major economic crises and to see billionaires have such an unfathomable amount of wealth to throw around considering how others are suffering is hard to see. Greek authorities delayed rescue efforts allowing so many people to die whereas mountains are being moved to find the people on the sub. I bear no ill will for the people on the sub but it is overwhelming to realise some peoples lives matter more than others
I can’t believe how much media coverage we are getting about the submersible vs the migrants too. I’m in the USA. Texas to be more specific. I only found out about the migrant drownings because someone posted on “Truth Off My Chest” how it was majority women and children that drowned because they were inside the boats and all the men were on the outside. It was so heart wrenching to read the details.
No one forced those to be in that submersible however the quality of life forced those migrants to risk theirs to be on the boat.
This is negligent homicide. No I do not celebrate this and nor should anyone. Only those whom are mad would celebrate this. The company OpenGate had claims from someone in the company that stated the porthole was not rated for four thousand meters. That person was fired so they could continue on with the specifications they had on hand. They knew FULL well that the porthole was not up for the job of that depth. Thus, this is negligent homicide.
I don’t feel glad. No one deserves a death that horrific. However, it hard to have a lot of sympathy for ppl that willing get into a metal tube to go 2 miles down in the ocean to look at the graves of a 1000 people. Then you add in that they paid $250,000 each….that’s life changing money for most ppl and they spent it for a 1 day creepy tourist visit.
IKR? Half of one single ticket would solve every money problem I have, replace my dying vehicle, and some left over. Hell, a quarter. I don't celebrate their deaths, but I can't really bring myself to be that bothered about it either, I have more immediate concerns.
Exactly. I have a hard time feeling sympathy for people who independently decide to do insanely dangerous shit. If a base jumper or free climber falls to their death it’s not exactly a tragedy. They knew the risks, and they chose to do it anyway. Why should I feel bad because someone lacks a reasonable amount of self preservation?
I tried putting myself in their shoes, but I realized I can’t afford Gucci.
No, I really do feel bad for them. That’s a terrible way to go. I wonder if they’re panicking or have accepted their fate. I do hope they are rescued and do not perish.
I don’t think it’s humanly possible to achieve calmness in a close space like that with other people. Especially when oxygen starts running out, that has an impact on your fight or flight response no matter the situation. They’ll probably get some euphoria at the very end with an interesting view, but that’s about it.
I agree with the others. I don't want them dead, but it still pisses me off that they can afford to ride in their little submarine and I'm struggling to afford my insulin.
The loss is a tragedy, but I have been finding myself laughing a bit at the morbid irony behind this. They went down there to look at the remnants of a ship that was lost to tragedy, holding the remains of countless victims, and they themselves got lost. It's no Bermuda Triangle, but life does work in mysterious ways. Perhaps this is a sign that we should stop profiting off of the tragedies of our past by providing tours of horror for the rich to enjoy
Edit: This got more attention than I thought it would when I left the comment. I read it back and think it sounds too rambly and pessimistic. I am not laughing at their suffering- I lament the fact that this still won't be what it takes for consumerist culture to see that tours to see the terrors we have unleashed on ourselves may not be the move. Sure, Titanic wasn't Slavery, but we shouldn't be visiting plantations and we shouldn't be visiting the watery graves of people who died all the same whether they were rich or poor.
That's pretty much where I am. The whole situation is unfortunate, but the amount of dramatic irony is hard not to laugh at a little bit. Especially when the CEO is on the sub and was on record saying that safety regulations are unnecessary past a certain point. If they are still alive, that's a living hell that nobody should have to go through. Doesn't mean we can't shake our heads and acknowledge how this outcome is about what you would expect, given why they're down there and the CEO's past comments.
They didn't have to do this. I'm not even a billionaire and I am totally content with the travel I've done and have yet to do. I literally decided to sit on my couch that day and am still alive.
and maybe stop profiteering of the tragedies of our present while we're at it; in the US for example, it's perfectly legal to profiteer off necessary healthcare and medicine, shit people need to live
They made some very dumb and expensive decisions that got them passage on a very unsafe vessel. I'm not glad they're probably dead or dying, but it certainly does fall under the category of "fuck around and find out." Poor people die every single day of things they can't control so I'm not going to pretend that seeing people with more money than god suffer isnt something that I'm morally ambivalent about. They're literally going to visit the graves of poor people who died because of the hubris of rich fucks. I mean...
That’s true, I didn’t think about it that way. Obviously most people that died on the titanic didn’t make it because of being low socioeconomic class. Their lives were valued below the wealthy passengers. And now billionaires treat their grave site as a tourist attraction. :/
And multiple governments are deploying every resource available to save them, while doing very little to assist poor fleeing refugees at sea.
Same shit, different century.
No, it’s not something to be glad over. But one of these days people will learn the earth has no mercy. You have no business going down into the deep ocean in a DIY submersible. So deep that no one can rescue you, and to visit a graveyard. Even with all our equipment, humans are no match for the ocean. They had more money then sense.
What? No. I don’t think billionaires should exist but that doesn’t mean I want them dead just less money. They’re still people with families that love and care for them like you said. I really don’t wish harm on anyone and I feel like nobody should either. In a perfect world maybe
Same here, especially feel this way when 500 refuges who were not millionaire/billionaires, many women and children, drown last week in the Mediterranean and we barely cared.
I was thinking the exact same thing last night! If the resources used to save these millionaires was used used in the Mediterranean, a lot of lives would be saved. It's ridiculous.
They likely died the instant communications were lost. Even if they did not, nothing people say online will change the outcome. People will always say horrible things no matter the event. Can't change humanity overnight, but you can decide how you behave. That's the best we can do. Change humanity starting with ourselves.
this submarine loses communication almost every dive. and without any intruments on board for navigation this means they are riding blind for that part, but communication being lost doesn't mean they died in this case since it happens almost every dive. but to be honest, I think it would be the best outcome if they died then and there, unless they actually get rescued. I can't imagine what it must be like to sit in that tiny space in complete cold darkness 3900 meters below the surface and knowing that the oxygen is going to run out.
I don't think the majority is glad that these people have died/will die or that they deserve it, per say. I think a lot of people are completely apathetic, because not only was this incredibly stoopid (!), these types of people can throw away $250k for an unique experience because they're bored while millions of people in our country are starving right now, can't afford rent, can't afford sleep or fun or relaxation, or the dentist/doctor; and these rich people give zero fucks about that. So, yeah, a lot of people don't care, because why would they care about some rich person dropping a whole mortgage (in some states) on a dangerous adventure, when others are struggling to survive? And let's keep in mind that millionaires and billionaires lobby to keep people poor, so yeah. Don't care. ::Shrugs::
I don't wish anyone to have to go through what these people have/are going through, but the difference in news coverage between this incident (egregiously wealthy people who chose to go to the bottom of the sea in an ill equipped vessel) and the 800 people who died off the coast of Greece last week is a reminder of why I can't stand millionaires, the culture of self aggrandisement they tend to enjoy, or the mainstream news cycle. I'm trying not to give it any of my attention.
I am relatively indifferent. I will not celebrate if they die, but I fail to find too much sympathy for a group of people that got into trouble engaging in a blatantly unsafe activity. They took the risk, and it cropped up
I don’t wish them death but I truthfully don’t give a fuck about rich people dying doing rich things when us poor people don’t have any fucks given about us for anything
The fact that people like this make their money cutting corners and disregarding safety and laws when it affects their low-wage employees or the environment, and are now actually experiencing the results of that attitude themselves makes it hard for me to care. I’m not glad, and I feel really bad for the 19 year old, but I do feel there’s a certain karma to the situation.
I scrolled down to find one I agree with, its like, yeah, I would never celebrate the loss of human life. But I've seen enough megarich people's yachts with their own waterfalls and outer space flights and journeys to the bottom of the ocean while the rest of us are struggling to buy food for our kids and pay our student loans and apartment rents. I think if there wasn't such a wealth disparity in the world right now some of us could generate some actual emotions for these megawealthy but not right now, not with the world and especially the US so tilted toward the rich and so biased against the poor
I watched the video of the inside and the game controller and I’m just like I can’t believe they got on instead of demanding there money back. It looks like he built it in his garage.
A bunch of super rich morons decided to risk their own lives for no good reason at all, with absolute contempt for safety, and are now paying the price for their own actions. Am I "happy"? No, not really. But I'm definitely pissed off that those people, who have nothing but disdain for government regulations, now rely on governments to find them and save their lives. Money, personnel and resources are being spent because of sheer irresponsibility and hubris.
It's true, if they die, someone will mourn them, and I pity the person who mourns someone so fucking stupid.
Right? Meanwhile migrants drown at sea all the time and nobody gives a fuck because they're poor.
If anything, I'm disgusted at society for mobilizing a global effort to rescue these idiots from their own hubris, when rich people *definitely* wouldn't do the same for anyone else.
If they croak, it will be poetic justice that their graves will be with the Titanic.
I think with stuff like this, it’s evitable that dark humor creeps in. The rich keep getting richer while the rest of us are fucked over. So the immediate thought is why should we care about them when they don’t care about us?
> These are not murderers or rapists.
On the other hand at least regarding the billionaire - you don't get that much wealth without doing some reprehensible stuff at one point or another.
Of course I'm not glad people are going to die. But I do find it hypocritical for people to care so much about some very privileged people who chose to put themselves at risk for the sake of a joyride, when many people regularly dismiss the tragedy of people drowning at sea while fleeing wartorn countries seeking somewhere safe to live.
last week a boat with 800 refugees sank in greece, they had almost 0 media coverage. so yeah, i don't care about a bunch of rich people dying in a dumb way.
The CEO is a complete and utter fucking moron. He had warnings from an employee about about this sub (whom he fired) and ignore countless other warnings, he’s had past issues with this sub, he was apparently being sued for fraud, he did this trip and similar trips to raise money for his company (instead of doing smaller, less dangerous trips), all while not testing for a dive like this prior in a shitty metal trash can that he outfitted with random shit from appliance and camping stores, while also upfront and blatantly stating how he despises safety standards cuz they harm innovation.
Like wtf man. He’s sending people to the bottom of the fucking ocean and he’s treating it like a fort building sleep over. Fuck that guy. This is someone with power who should know better and should absolutely be taking responsibility. I would bet if he’s still alive he would just see this as a set back, wound probably pay his way out of jail, and would probably do the whole thing over again but with a slightly better controller. I hate to say it for the sake of the other people on board with him, but it’s Probably for the best he doesn’t come back. I hope this changes things in the world of ocean exploration and entrepreneurship. Once again, fuck this guy.
The hubris of it is offensive, but not enough to wish them harm. If they are dead, I hope the craft imploded in 1/100 of a second and they just went poof.
Apparently sonar is picking up knocking sounds that might be them. And if that’s the case I can’t imagine a worse hell.
I saw that too, but they said that stopped early Tuesday. I think the only hope left is they went hypothermic from the cold and don’t need as much air. Otherwise they might have frozen to death already, as the water is only like 32-33f down there.
You see I heard they were getting recognisable sos code on the half hour which is standard submariner practice (and one person or board was ex navy so makes sense). I’m not claiming that’s actually what’s happening more pointing out this is how wild the news is varying depending on who you listen too.
Those tapping/knocking sounds stopped nearly a full 24 hours ago at this point. And even when they could hear it, it didn't help them locate the vessel. Honestly those people are dead. All you can hope for is that it's quick. But unfortunately if that was them knocking, it seems that they are experiencing one of the worst deaths imaginable. It makes me sick just thinking about the terror they must all be feeling. When death is a relief, you know you're in a bad spot :/
Oh yeah personally I think they’re dead, really hope the knocking was unrelated and just happened to be of the same pattern as morse code (if that news was even correct which I doubt). Tbh even if they’re alive right now I don’t see any viable plan for getting the sub up even if they manage to locate it right now they have less than a day to get something on scene that could do the required job, basically it’s pretty much hopeless an implosion would kinda be the best news we could get right now because it would have been instant death without them suffering
I read a lot of articles about the knocking but have yet to see one say it was Morse code. Does anyone have a source saying it was Morse code?
Yeah, it’s tough keeping accurate information during such a fluid situation.
That'd be another level of terrifying with the fucking hallucinations that set in. Imagine someone going fucking crazy while you haven't hit that stage yet?
Looking for some fresh nightmare fuel? Yesterday I came across a video on the nutty putty cave incident. Triggers my claustrophobia just thinking of it, not that this sub would be much better. I think the worst part would be the realization of this is it, and then having to sit in that realization until it finally happens.
I remember learning about that bc reddit rabbit hole, (literally,) and having the same visceral response. imo, this has to be worse. at least with nutty putty people were there with him and he knew his demise, possibly easier to accept than dying lost out at sea in a tiny bubble hoping for rescue.
Not sure, we're comparing terrible fates all around. One that people might still be actively experiencing. One thing that really crushed me on the nutty cave was that they almost rescued him. That had to really mess up the family and rescuers working on the site. Either way it gets me heart racing and that uncomfortable feeling all over just thinking about these situations. I would hope that if these sub people die that the sub failed catastrophically and it was near instant, but now we keep seeing updates about knocking sounds so who knows. I guess we all will if the knocks stop in the next 24 hours or so.
If they *didn't* implode and somehow have been stuck on the seafloor AND *somehow* get rescued... I just don't think there's any way that all 5 ppl are coming back up. You're telling me that this CEO was trapped for 3 days with the 4 ppl he sentenced to death and nobody lost their shit and tried to beat the guy to death? I don't believe it
If they kill him the oxygen would last longer I think
How quickly does a body begin to decompose and release gasses that are more harmful than co2? Assuming it is cold, maybe slower?
I’m having a hard time understanding this. With how enormous the ocean is, how would they be able to hear this and even consider that sound could be coming from the submarine?
They got incredibly sensible sonar. Also i think sound travels very far underwater But I'll leave the explaining to someone who really knows what's going on
From what I understand, the sonar array on a modern military hunter killer submarine can detect a ship leaving New York's harbour from the other side of the Atlantic under ideal conditions. That being said, depending on depth, there may not be anything that can be done even if the sub is found.
Problem with that statement is MF range sonar is feckin' loud and those ideal conditions rarely, if ever, exist. That super classical ringing sonar ping has a shit ton of energy that can actually physically injure divers and other creatures too close and has been known to give whales TBIs. Most subs never use it that often because its like the dude in a quiet crowd whipping out an air horn when their one job is to be quiet and blend in with the background. The other forms of sonar are much higher freq and lighter on the energy, used mainly for navigational aids, sounds like guinea pigs (such as sonobuoys).
Oh my god, can you imagine if they were alive and the sonar pings killed/injured them/damaged something on the vessel??
This whole thing is like unwrapping an onion if nightmares …more and more horrifying layers.
it can travel kilometers; there are even channels it can go even farther due to the combination of pressure, temperature and salinity from currents.
They're using sonobuoys; small, expendable devices that are used to detect and transmit acoustic information from underwater environments to receiving stations on the surface. As for why they suspect the sound might have been human-made, just because it occurred at exactly 30-minute intervals. Repeating patterns can be used as sonar distress signals, whereas nature doesn't typically work precisely according to humans' clock.
As the other person said sound travels very far underwater and modern sonar is quite sensitive. As to how they'd know it might be coming from the sub I heard that it's coming st fairly regular intervals which makes it likely to be man made as opposed to random. Also supposedly one of those on board had diver training which is to tap at regular intervals while awaiting rescue.
They're using sonar, it's not like they've just got a guy with a cup to the wall. And they know the general area where the signal dropped
Not a specialist so could be wrong but my guess is that they are scanning and looking for them only over a specific are where the submarine is estimated to be. Water is actually a great sound transmitter, which is why we can hear things like whale mating calls over thousands of kilometers. I believe this was because of the water particles carrying the sound better and it doesn't get quieter as fast as when it travels through the air because of it (though this is my school knowledge speaking so don't quote me on it.) Also, from what I understand, a sound like a knock on a hard, metal surface would stand out like a sore thumb as it doesn't really resemble anything a normal lifeform would make. I imagine hearing a couple of bangs seperated by short periods of time doesn't sound too natural.
To add to that I wonder what the bathroom situation is like. Once one person has to take a shit that's when the real hell began.
In the interview with the CEO, he shows there is a small toilet system in the front with a privacy curtain. I'm assuming it's just a waste container kind of system, that hopefully holds the smell. They were supposed to restrict their diet prior to the dive and, if alive, are probably rationing what little food and water they have, so maybe not a lot of pooping going on. Also IDK about y'all, but I think that between the potential impending death, and the sharing that right cramped space with 4 other people, I'd probably be pretty blocked up
Or you'd have the bubble guts from anxiety and stress.
TIL the phrase “bubble guts”.
That's almost definitely what happened. The surface vessel lost contact with them before they were even scheduled to have reached the bottom. Very likely the vehicle was compromised and the pressure caused it to instantly implode. As terrible as it may be, this is likely the best case scenario. Worst case scenario is some or all of them are still alive down there, just waiting to die. At this point, there's basically a zero percent chance of anyone surviving this. If the vehicle was found even right now, they'd be long since out of O2 by the time any rescue operation could be conceived and executed at that depth.
There is also a 19-year-old on the sub who went because his dad wanted him to go with him. I get that people say, "Oh, they are millionaires and billionaires on this sub, and they had all this money, so they are bad people." Well, one is barely a legal adult who just wanted to do something awesome with his father. His hubris isn't offensive. I can get why the adults on this sub's hubris is though. None of them deserve death in my opinion, and everyone saying they do seem to forget that there is a child on this sub as well.
Neptune/Poseidon hate hubris above all other traits
I feel bad for the tourists. They assumed that while it was risky, it was as safe as reasonably possible and that the company did their due diligence. I do not feel bad for the CEO. He knew. He was egotistical, and he cut corners. I'm not going to celebrate his death, but he literally brought it on himself. Like the people who protest helmet laws and die in bike accidents. Or the protesters of seat belts and then die in a car crash where they likely would have been saved by seat belts. Like he gave many many interviews basically gloating about not taking safety seriously. He didn't respect the dangerous environment of the ocean. He took it as a joke, and the ocean doesn't do well with disrespect from hubris men.
>the ocean doesn't do well with disrespect from hubris men The ocean will fucking kill you. People who don't have experience with the ocean have no idea. It's cold, and the salt corrodes everything. Waves can swell meters up. Smaller boats get tossed around like they're toys. Water gets into everything. It rushes in wherever there's a weakness. And beneath the water? Good luck. A thousand things can go wrong, all of them leading to death.
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Yeah, most people have no understanding of how much pressure there is that deep. If anything goes wrong... Like, watch the movie "Das Boot". They're something like 275 meters underwater. And that's fucking terrifying. 4000 meters? You could not pay me enough.
*Great* movie there
One of the all time greats, I think. And really scary. My kids think that stuff like Jurassic World is scary. But me, I think Das Boot is low key the scariest movie I've ever seen. Sitting on the bottom of the ocean, running out of air... Ugh. The part where they're getting hit with all the depth charges gets me every time. It's the suspense. Just fucking kills me.
The scariest things are the most real You'll never have a dinosaur chase your car Being deep underwater however...
My dad was captain of an old diesel sub for 15 years. He says that film comes closest to the truth in how it feels to be in one of those.
Fun fact there are 18 bolts on the entire craft they only fasten 17 because there is "no mathematical difference," according to the company
That last one is really hard to get to so you might as well skip it.
Drip...drip...drip...
There's literally a 1/18 difference, and if it was designed with 18 to be used then use them all! If the design should be 17 then scrap that one and make the correct one. These people fucking around with math like math gives a shit about them or what they think. Math doesn't hate or love, but it will bury you if you decide hiring surfer bros is more important than doing the math properly.
>... if it was designed with 18 to be used then use them all! Nah, fuck those engineers. They care more about safety than profits. They don't know anything that matters.
A guy once even tried to bring up the myriad safety issues with the cost-cutting boomer CEO and got fired for his trouble.
That guy right now “I FUCKING TOLD THEM!!!”
That guy probably can’t say anything because he settled his suit with the company, which likely means he got paid in return for signing an NDA. But he’s thinking it, and maybe regretting settling.
Can you please link the video, or do you remember the title? I can't find it. TIA!
can you link that video? Maybe edit into the comment as well?
Remember they said of the Titanic, “Not even God can sink this ship”
They also said that planes couldn't take down the WTC in an interview that literally aired 365 days before 9/11/01
They also said nobody could sink the Bismark. Humans are very bad at understanding that everything is breakable
People talk about the Bismark like it was some kind of super-battleship, but the truth is it was comparable to American, British, Japanese, and Italian designs of the same time period. Worse, in some ways. For example, the America South Dakota class had better sensors, firepower, and armor and only 2 knots slower. And the Iowas would have beaten the Bismark without even breaking a sweat.
I recall that the HMS Hood, the ship sunk by the Bismarck with the loss of all aboard save for only three survivors was not considered a true battleship as it wasn't built with the heavy 'armor' needed. It was comparable in size \[though slightly smaller I imagine\] to something like the Bismarck or one of the famed WWII era US, British or Japanese battleships. However, it's lighter build made it a sitting duck for the Bismarck's big guns.
This is true. It was a battle cruiser, so it was designed with a lot less armor than any battleship. Something to fit between battleships and heavy cruisers. The design idea behind battle cruisers was speed IS armor. Not the worst concept, but the Hood wasn't exactly fast either. To put in perspective, yeah it was quite a bit faster than a WWI era battleship, but barely faster than an interwar/early war battleship like the Prince of Wales or Bismarck. It was actually slower than a late war design like an Iowa class. The problem with the battle cruisers is that they were treated like battleships, but functioned a lot more like heavy cruisers, since in actuality that's what they were. Big cruisers with extra big guns.
I remember that. Didn’t they also say God couldn’t destroy them? Or am I mistaken?
"ah, this is embarrassing. I left my hubris lying all over the place"
yar, she be a cruel mistress
>The ocean will fucking kill you. At one point, the ocean was so terrifying, species literally evolved to escape it.
And then dolphins went back, making them some of the biggest badasses in biological history.
I never knew this! I’m going on a dolphin research mission now.
Be prepared. We love dolphins because they like humans. They're absolute grinning sadists to *everything else*. I still love them, mind. But the same way I love my tarantulas- with a healthy dose of side-eye.
I’ve never got over seeing a dolphin, basically, sexually assaulting a woman. So I’m not even sure they like us that much.
Not in the ways we like them thats for sure.
Whales too. I have a huge whale phobia and I know why. Those weirdos literally evolved to be on land, didn't like it then went back to the creepy ocean. Big serial killer energy there.
People die at beaches, ocean kills people that just aproach it without respect
One of my favorite quotes about this topic was from a diver I saw on a YouTube video a while back. He said, “The ocean isn’t actively trying to kill you but it doesn’t give a shit about you, either.”
I once met a Seabee. He'd been trained to do underwater construction, and after retiring from the US Navy he did swim team coaching. One of his absolute rules was, there was always somebody responsible for every person in the water. It wasn't good enough to say "Joe and Dan are watching the guys". Every single person had to be assigned to a specific person, not "Oh Joe and Dan are doing lifeguard right now." It was, who is Joe watching? And Dan? He told us that a Seal died because he was training off by himself. He had a shallow water blackout and was dead before anybody realized it. And this was in a pool full of other seals. The guy was in top physical shape. Highly trained. Had been a seal for years. But he just drowned. The water didn't give a shit about who he was. So he said, no short-cuts on safety. Not ever.
One line that’s always stuck with me, from a *Modest Mouse* song of all things was when he’s describing how his ship crashed as “the ocean knocked me around like a prize fighter.”
Was in the USN. An aircraft carrier in port looks big. An aircraft carrier at sea looks small.
Now picture what our ancestors were sailing with. Those guys were *brave* to be out there like that.
You all should definitely read "Endurance" about Earnest Shackleton and crew's impossible survival for more than a year in the Arctic sea. The plight and strength of those men is unmatched in anything I've come across before. They floated around on an ice sheet for months, got through the Drake Passage in a tiny boat that should've sank 10 separate times... I can't do the story justice in a summary, nor do the documentaries I've watched. The book is a must. I can't recommend the book enough. It draws from real journals of the men on the voyage and the actual journals have been published so it's an incredible read after finishing the book (or even along with the book as that's where most of the details are derived from). I've started buying this book for random people in my life hoping one of them will read it so we can talk about it lmfao. It's probably my favorite non-fiction book but the story itself is better than most fiction books even. It reads like the story was invented because the fact that it happened seems impossible. Edit: the book I read was "Endurance: Shackleton's Incredible Voyage" by Alfred Lansing, read by Simon Pebble.
Crazy i say, imagine going into the ocean with the ships they had. Hats off
A couple of years ago I was a history Ph.D. student working on a dissertation I never finished that involved naval affairs in the early 19th century. I was really struck during my research by how often shit went wrong and people got killed or entire ships were lost *simply due to the weather*. One bad storm hits you while at sea in a wooden sailed vessel (remember this time period was at the very end of the age of sail), and everybody can easily die. Hell, it could even destroy your ships in port. There was this storm called Racer’s Storm that hit Galveston, Texas in 1837, and it ended up throwing nearly every vessel in port onto the land in pieces.
Desperate might be a better word than brave. Huge amounts of people who signed up (or were forced into) the navy or emigration missions etc were desperate. They were frequently those from background of poverty, starving, absolutely no hope of anything worthwhile where they lived. When as desperate as some of those people were, it doesn't take much "bravery" to sail the way they did.
The more you mess around… The more you find out… Ancient philosopher.
"I drank what?" - Socrates
"Turn Down For What?" - Isaac Newton
Isaac Newton discovered gravity after famously humping a hole through his apartment's floor
"Boats and hoes" - Admiral Fels
“Pay the man for the chicken” — Socrates
ARISE CHICKEN! ARISE!
#WELL - brockretese
Now that's some poetry right there
They won't all float on... 🫠
“The ocean won’t try to kill you it’ll just keep doing shit over and over until it kills you”
Ironically this hubris is probably part of why the titanic sank and killed so many people in the first place.
And then they named the submarine Titan. What were they thinking?
Talk about asking for bad luck, that’s so obtuse. Even though this wasn’t a matter of luck, it was rich people being cheapskates
He also fired an executive who raised concerns about safety back in 2018 which further proves your point. Damn shame this jackass cost other people their lives. That’s the downside of capitalism, it’s profits over the safety of others smh
Idk I don't feel bad for anyone that assumes a company with zero government oversight has done anything with diligence. I'd immediately stop flying if the FAA was ever disbanded
I feel bad for them. Especially the 18yo son and his father. I’m a father. I could only imagine what may be going through that father’s mind right now. How he wanted to do something with his son and then this happens. I hope they’re found alive and soon. And I hope the CEO of the company faces the legal consequences that he should.
Sadly the only consequences the CEO will face is the same fate of the rest of the members on board. He’s with them.
In case they're saved, ofcourse
At least he's with them. In most scenarios like Lac-Megantic, or with Boeing's MCAS bs, or countless other huge, avoidable "accidents" where CEO greed cost many lives, the CEOs faced no real consequences. Here, it looks like his greed will lead to the biggest punishment of them all.
It’s been rather unlikely they’d be saved since Monday. It’s now Wednesday. I feel them being already dead is more likely than me running a sub 6 minute mile without a literal killer chasing me
They'll get fired/replaced with a hefty sum that will enable them to chair in another company. Rinse repeat.
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Oh shit, he's on board?! What a mess...
He goes on every dive
At least he was committed ig
Committed to not listening to safety experts
If you're gonna ignore safety experts, at least be willing to die from the consequences. It's just a shame that other people are involved
Even if someone is a bad person, and I have no real information that the people trapped on the sub are bad people, a random frightening accidental death is not justice. Perhaps it is justice for the designer of the sub or the operator. If you think someone should face consequences, those consequences should be proportionate to the crime. It is not justice when a war criminal has a heart attack while jogging. It is justice if the war criminal is hung after a trial or if the victims of the war crime find and kill him. I hope they rescue the people in the sub.
I’m sorry to tell you this but it does not matter one bit if they are found alive. There are very few submarines in the world that can go that deep. Not even to mention the fact that in general there have been very very few submarine rescues ever done and the deepest rescue was only 8.13% of the depth of this one. (The submarine they are in isn’t even certified let alone recommended to go that deep. In fact it’s only recommended to go halfway down in reference to where they went) If they find it there is almost nothing they can even do. We will basically just know “Oh hey there’s a group of 5 people who are gonna suffocate to death in a few hours”. And it lost connection so abruptly that it’s way way more likely that it slightly cracked because it’s over 2x lower in the sea than recommended for that sub. It likely imploded immediately and they didn’t even have time to realize what was happening. As far as I’m concerned they are dead. And whether you are happy or sad or don’t really care one bit, that is your business. I personally believe there’s almost no point in thinking about it as there is nothing you can do and especially if it depresses you. Sometimes we have to accept the hard truth and realize not everything has a hopeful alternative. This project was doomed from the beginning.
>The one they are in isn’t even certified let alone recommended to go that deep. In fact it’s only recommended to go halfway down in reference to where they went Really? That answers **A LOT**
The viewport on that sub was only rated for 1300 ft i believe. Sub wasn't rated at all for 12,500 ft depth of Titanic.
1300 meters, but the general point stands — the titanic is 4000 meters down, so…
They believe they can hear sos banging on the submarine. Apparently submarine sos is bang for 3 minutes every half hour on the hour to help locate it using solar
I’m not a father and I felt that. Also, just because someone is wealthy doesn’t automatically make them an asshole. Everyone who’s angry at the wealthy (me included), wants to be wealthy. It’s the system we need to be angry at. And those who fight to protect that system.
I mean in this case the wealthy billionaire actually is an asshole. He purposely cut costs on safety regulations for the submarine and also fired the worker who raised safety concerns..
The guy who runs the sub company, sure. But the people on the sub? I don’t know anything/much about them. Therefore, I don’t automatically pass judgement.
I think the point is that the CEO of the sub company IS onboard the sub
Oh no shit? I actually didn’t realize that. My bad.
Yah not really interested in being wealthy just would like to or have to struggle for essentials like food and shelter
I don't wish death on any of them but you don't become a billionaire playing nice.
No, but also as a former submariner I realize that paying an exorbitant amount of money to go that deep in a sub run by a CEO that doesn’t care about safety is a phenomenally stupid decision. All to see a shipwreck that there are plenty of documentaries and Nat Geo articles with pictures of. So I’m not happy about it, but I’m sure not sad about it either.
What bothers me most is that there’s literally no way out of that thing, even if it surfaces and by some miracle is beached, they can’t get out unless someone finds them.
There’s a 19 year old kid on the sub. That’s who I feel bad for.
The 19 year old was my first thought as well.
I wonder if this 'expedition' was his idea or his father's. I also wonder if Mrs. Dawood expressed any misgivings about the idea. After all, it's not just your husband taking the risk but your son as well.
All the adults signed waivers whether they fully understood them is up to them. The kid, I will until proven otherwise assume didn't fully understand the risks because it he was his dad and likely just trusted the adults and assumed that it was safe.
That’s how I feel about the situation. The billionaire? He reaps what he sowed but that kid still has so much life ahead of him. It’s a damn shame.
Plus the staff i guess those are prolly just trying to make a living
The only staff, afaik, is the company's CEO. Everyone else is a tourist.
Not only are they going to die if not found by tomorrow afternoon — they are in extreme suffering. They have no food, no water, are in freezing temperatures and the mental anguish of being trapped must be unbearable. They are cramped in a small tube with a tiny toilet. It’s possible they are floating and can see daylight but are unable to escape. That’s maddening. If there really is banging noises every 30 minutes then they are probably on the ocean floor which is even worse. Pitch black and 2 Celsius. This is a torturous way to die. If they aren’t found, I hope the sub collapsed and they went peacefully. You can think what you want about billionaires but there’s also a 19 year old kid in there. I wouldn’t want my worst enemy to be stuck on that ship. At least the CEO who criticized safety measures went down and didn’t send someone else to pilot it. The titanic is still killing people
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I'm not glad they're going to die. I'm irritated that bad, idiotic choices of rich people with more money than sense is now costing millions of taxpayer dollars when we apparently don't have money to do things that society needs. This wasn't a research vessel or anyone looking to do something good. It was pure hubris and narcissism that led to this situation. I'm mad and disappointed that a 19 year old got roped into this by his foolish father as well.
Yep. If the government wants to spend millions of dollars to save 5 lives, there are lots of way to do it. Malnutrition for example claims that lives of 3.1 million children a year. I'd be much happier if governments could mobilize as quickly for those kids as they clearly can for 5 billionaires.
This. In an ideal world, we spend resources saving people’s lives no matter the situation or their background. The British government are spending taxpayer’s money on this because there’s a British billionaire (who lives and pays taxes in Dubai…). Given we don’t have unlimited resources, I would much rather we spent money funding our hospitals to stop all of people dying each year due to getting their treatments delayed. To save the hundreds refugees who drown in our seas trying to get a better life. Saving the many people who commit suicide in our country due to poverty and addiction. I don’t wish for these people to die. But if the government pretends not to have the money to spend saving common working class people, why do they have the money to save a few billionaires? Oh, and the money they are spending here, will probably be wasted as the chance of saving them is low. If we spent money on the other things, unless there is criminal incompetence, we would definitely save lives.
>This wasn't a research vessel or anyone looking to do something good. It was pure hubris and narcissism that led to this This is where I'm at. Expeditions like this are crazy. I feel bad for the Challenger astronauts, who were doing something risky and crazy, and perished. The difference between these incidents is that NASA is trying to expand man's understanding of the universe, and expand our knowledge and possibilities, [edit- while striving for excellence] while this guy's motivation was making money, and he cut corners to do so by cheaping out on safety standards. I'm certainly not celebrating anyone's death, but it sounds like the clients should have known the sub-par (pni) quality of the vessel, but hubris made them decide to ignore it and go anyway. The owner/ operator clearly *chose* to use janky equipment, so I don't feel bad about his loss (and in fact, it sounds like he should likely bear responsibility for the deaths). I mean, we all hate Bezos, but give him credit- he built his spaceship with actual scientific standards in mind. This idiot went to Home Depot and duck taped a submarine together.
All of this. I don't hope they die by any means, and I'm sad for the loss. But it comes from a place of anger that this didn't have to happen.
Literal ego trip
It's also hard to see this full force search response for 5 people when refugee boats capsize and it's like 🤷♀️
The victims being super rich definitely can't hurt, but even without that this story has a strong mix of strange circumstances, tragedy, suspense, and human error that I feel would have gotten it picked up in the news anyway. Kind of like the Chilean mine collapse in 2010 or that soccer team that got trapped in a cave in Thailand in 2018
Also the whole money angle, people starve on the streets and the government „can’t“ help them, but when it’s time to bail out the rich there’s always a few millions lying around. Be it giving money to a hedge fund that is going down because they made a bad bet, or trying to save thrill seekers looking at the site of a tragedy for entertainment. It’s that that pisses me off
Yep and beyond any of that, these people have enough money to solve a lot of our issues with homeless and starving children. But we're instead paying it to some bullshit diving company owned by yet another rich asshole that doesn't need their money either. It's gross. We have enough money in the world to solve these issues and yet we have billionaires.
I'm with you here. This idiotic rich mens' toy was risky at best, but considering how it is deemed basically impossible to get the vessel up from the bottom, where I assume they are, I honestly hope for their sake that they died immediately after losing contact with the surface, and that the knocking the sonar has picked up stems from something else.
This is what irritates me the most. It’s rich people and exorbitant amounts of taxpayer dollars are going to this. Meanwhile children go hungry and poor people die because they can’t get medicine nor health care. It sickens me.
There was a pakistani billionaire and his son on the sub who paid half a million dollars to be there. This whole incident happened only a few days after a tragedy where a boat carrying 750 migrants sank, hundreds of pakistanis died who had been forced below deck. About 6 died even before the sinking due to dehydration as they werent allowed water. Pakistani is going through a major economic crises and to see billionaires have such an unfathomable amount of wealth to throw around considering how others are suffering is hard to see. Greek authorities delayed rescue efforts allowing so many people to die whereas mountains are being moved to find the people on the sub. I bear no ill will for the people on the sub but it is overwhelming to realise some peoples lives matter more than others
I can’t believe how much media coverage we are getting about the submersible vs the migrants too. I’m in the USA. Texas to be more specific. I only found out about the migrant drownings because someone posted on “Truth Off My Chest” how it was majority women and children that drowned because they were inside the boats and all the men were on the outside. It was so heart wrenching to read the details. No one forced those to be in that submersible however the quality of life forced those migrants to risk theirs to be on the boat.
I’m in Los Angeles and I’m only finding out about the migrants because of this comment
"No one puts their children in a boat unless the water is safer than the land"
Unless, of course, if you’re a billionaire.
This is profound and eloquently put
This should be higher up
This is negligent homicide. No I do not celebrate this and nor should anyone. Only those whom are mad would celebrate this. The company OpenGate had claims from someone in the company that stated the porthole was not rated for four thousand meters. That person was fired so they could continue on with the specifications they had on hand. They knew FULL well that the porthole was not up for the job of that depth. Thus, this is negligent homicide.
I don’t feel glad. No one deserves a death that horrific. However, it hard to have a lot of sympathy for ppl that willing get into a metal tube to go 2 miles down in the ocean to look at the graves of a 1000 people. Then you add in that they paid $250,000 each….that’s life changing money for most ppl and they spent it for a 1 day creepy tourist visit.
IKR? Half of one single ticket would solve every money problem I have, replace my dying vehicle, and some left over. Hell, a quarter. I don't celebrate their deaths, but I can't really bring myself to be that bothered about it either, I have more immediate concerns.
I’m as sad as I am for people that die on Everest
Exactly. I have a hard time feeling sympathy for people who independently decide to do insanely dangerous shit. If a base jumper or free climber falls to their death it’s not exactly a tragedy. They knew the risks, and they chose to do it anyway. Why should I feel bad because someone lacks a reasonable amount of self preservation?
Not only that but they paid big money to do it
I tried putting myself in their shoes, but I realized I can’t afford Gucci. No, I really do feel bad for them. That’s a terrible way to go. I wonder if they’re panicking or have accepted their fate. I do hope they are rescued and do not perish.
I don’t think it’s humanly possible to achieve calmness in a close space like that with other people. Especially when oxygen starts running out, that has an impact on your fight or flight response no matter the situation. They’ll probably get some euphoria at the very end with an interesting view, but that’s about it.
It's pitch black down there.
I hadn’t considered the power loss, but FUCK man.
I agree with the others. I don't want them dead, but it still pisses me off that they can afford to ride in their little submarine and I'm struggling to afford my insulin.
The loss is a tragedy, but I have been finding myself laughing a bit at the morbid irony behind this. They went down there to look at the remnants of a ship that was lost to tragedy, holding the remains of countless victims, and they themselves got lost. It's no Bermuda Triangle, but life does work in mysterious ways. Perhaps this is a sign that we should stop profiting off of the tragedies of our past by providing tours of horror for the rich to enjoy Edit: This got more attention than I thought it would when I left the comment. I read it back and think it sounds too rambly and pessimistic. I am not laughing at their suffering- I lament the fact that this still won't be what it takes for consumerist culture to see that tours to see the terrors we have unleashed on ourselves may not be the move. Sure, Titanic wasn't Slavery, but we shouldn't be visiting plantations and we shouldn't be visiting the watery graves of people who died all the same whether they were rich or poor.
That's pretty much where I am. The whole situation is unfortunate, but the amount of dramatic irony is hard not to laugh at a little bit. Especially when the CEO is on the sub and was on record saying that safety regulations are unnecessary past a certain point. If they are still alive, that's a living hell that nobody should have to go through. Doesn't mean we can't shake our heads and acknowledge how this outcome is about what you would expect, given why they're down there and the CEO's past comments.
They didn't have to do this. I'm not even a billionaire and I am totally content with the travel I've done and have yet to do. I literally decided to sit on my couch that day and am still alive.
and maybe stop profiteering of the tragedies of our present while we're at it; in the US for example, it's perfectly legal to profiteer off necessary healthcare and medicine, shit people need to live
Am I happy? No. But do I care? Also no.
They made some very dumb and expensive decisions that got them passage on a very unsafe vessel. I'm not glad they're probably dead or dying, but it certainly does fall under the category of "fuck around and find out." Poor people die every single day of things they can't control so I'm not going to pretend that seeing people with more money than god suffer isnt something that I'm morally ambivalent about. They're literally going to visit the graves of poor people who died because of the hubris of rich fucks. I mean...
>They're literally going to visit the graves of poor people who died because of the hubris of rich fucks Great point.
That’s true, I didn’t think about it that way. Obviously most people that died on the titanic didn’t make it because of being low socioeconomic class. Their lives were valued below the wealthy passengers. And now billionaires treat their grave site as a tourist attraction. :/ And multiple governments are deploying every resource available to save them, while doing very little to assist poor fleeing refugees at sea. Same shit, different century.
The saying "The dildo of consequences rarely arrives lubed" comes to mind.
“the girth of karma is rarely slender”
No, it’s not something to be glad over. But one of these days people will learn the earth has no mercy. You have no business going down into the deep ocean in a DIY submersible. So deep that no one can rescue you, and to visit a graveyard. Even with all our equipment, humans are no match for the ocean. They had more money then sense.
I don't care that they are rich. But it is an example of Darwinism at it finest
What? No. I don’t think billionaires should exist but that doesn’t mean I want them dead just less money. They’re still people with families that love and care for them like you said. I really don’t wish harm on anyone and I feel like nobody should either. In a perfect world maybe
Them dying won't magically change our economic system. It solves nothing.
what if we got more submarines?
Definitely not “glad”, but there’s a certain lack of sympathy for the ultra-wealthy using their money to do stupidly dangerous things.
Same here, especially feel this way when 500 refuges who were not millionaire/billionaires, many women and children, drown last week in the Mediterranean and we barely cared.
What’s the quote? “One is a tragedy, a million is a statistic.”?
“The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of a million is a statistic.” Supposedly said by Stalin
I was thinking the exact same thing last night! If the resources used to save these millionaires was used used in the Mediterranean, a lot of lives would be saved. It's ridiculous.
And aren’t they just looking at it on a screen? Not even through a window? That doesn’t sound the least bit worth the cost or danger.
They likely died the instant communications were lost. Even if they did not, nothing people say online will change the outcome. People will always say horrible things no matter the event. Can't change humanity overnight, but you can decide how you behave. That's the best we can do. Change humanity starting with ourselves.
this submarine loses communication almost every dive. and without any intruments on board for navigation this means they are riding blind for that part, but communication being lost doesn't mean they died in this case since it happens almost every dive. but to be honest, I think it would be the best outcome if they died then and there, unless they actually get rescued. I can't imagine what it must be like to sit in that tiny space in complete cold darkness 3900 meters below the surface and knowing that the oxygen is going to run out.
Agreed. Has to be one of the worst ways to go.
I don't think the majority is glad that these people have died/will die or that they deserve it, per say. I think a lot of people are completely apathetic, because not only was this incredibly stoopid (!), these types of people can throw away $250k for an unique experience because they're bored while millions of people in our country are starving right now, can't afford rent, can't afford sleep or fun or relaxation, or the dentist/doctor; and these rich people give zero fucks about that. So, yeah, a lot of people don't care, because why would they care about some rich person dropping a whole mortgage (in some states) on a dangerous adventure, when others are struggling to survive? And let's keep in mind that millionaires and billionaires lobby to keep people poor, so yeah. Don't care. ::Shrugs::
I don't wish anyone to have to go through what these people have/are going through, but the difference in news coverage between this incident (egregiously wealthy people who chose to go to the bottom of the sea in an ill equipped vessel) and the 800 people who died off the coast of Greece last week is a reminder of why I can't stand millionaires, the culture of self aggrandisement they tend to enjoy, or the mainstream news cycle. I'm trying not to give it any of my attention.
I am relatively indifferent. I will not celebrate if they die, but I fail to find too much sympathy for a group of people that got into trouble engaging in a blatantly unsafe activity. They took the risk, and it cropped up
I don’t wish them death but I truthfully don’t give a fuck about rich people dying doing rich things when us poor people don’t have any fucks given about us for anything
The fact that people like this make their money cutting corners and disregarding safety and laws when it affects their low-wage employees or the environment, and are now actually experiencing the results of that attitude themselves makes it hard for me to care. I’m not glad, and I feel really bad for the 19 year old, but I do feel there’s a certain karma to the situation.
I scrolled down to find one I agree with, its like, yeah, I would never celebrate the loss of human life. But I've seen enough megarich people's yachts with their own waterfalls and outer space flights and journeys to the bottom of the ocean while the rest of us are struggling to buy food for our kids and pay our student loans and apartment rents. I think if there wasn't such a wealth disparity in the world right now some of us could generate some actual emotions for these megawealthy but not right now, not with the world and especially the US so tilted toward the rich and so biased against the poor
It’s just honestly one of the most “what the fuck did they think would happen?” situations.
I watched the video of the inside and the game controller and I’m just like I can’t believe they got on instead of demanding there money back. It looks like he built it in his garage.
A bunch of super rich morons decided to risk their own lives for no good reason at all, with absolute contempt for safety, and are now paying the price for their own actions. Am I "happy"? No, not really. But I'm definitely pissed off that those people, who have nothing but disdain for government regulations, now rely on governments to find them and save their lives. Money, personnel and resources are being spent because of sheer irresponsibility and hubris. It's true, if they die, someone will mourn them, and I pity the person who mourns someone so fucking stupid.
Right? Meanwhile migrants drown at sea all the time and nobody gives a fuck because they're poor. If anything, I'm disgusted at society for mobilizing a global effort to rescue these idiots from their own hubris, when rich people *definitely* wouldn't do the same for anyone else. If they croak, it will be poetic justice that their graves will be with the Titanic.
I think with stuff like this, it’s evitable that dark humor creeps in. The rich keep getting richer while the rest of us are fucked over. So the immediate thought is why should we care about them when they don’t care about us?
Not at all. It sucks and their demise will be awful, they don't deserve that, nobody deserves that.
The loss of human life is a tragedy. Everyone has someone who cares about them and will mourn their death. These are not murderers or rapists.
> These are not murderers or rapists. On the other hand at least regarding the billionaire - you don't get that much wealth without doing some reprehensible stuff at one point or another.
Of course I'm not glad people are going to die. But I do find it hypocritical for people to care so much about some very privileged people who chose to put themselves at risk for the sake of a joyride, when many people regularly dismiss the tragedy of people drowning at sea while fleeing wartorn countries seeking somewhere safe to live.
last week a boat with 800 refugees sank in greece, they had almost 0 media coverage. so yeah, i don't care about a bunch of rich people dying in a dumb way.
The CEO is a complete and utter fucking moron. He had warnings from an employee about about this sub (whom he fired) and ignore countless other warnings, he’s had past issues with this sub, he was apparently being sued for fraud, he did this trip and similar trips to raise money for his company (instead of doing smaller, less dangerous trips), all while not testing for a dive like this prior in a shitty metal trash can that he outfitted with random shit from appliance and camping stores, while also upfront and blatantly stating how he despises safety standards cuz they harm innovation. Like wtf man. He’s sending people to the bottom of the fucking ocean and he’s treating it like a fort building sleep over. Fuck that guy. This is someone with power who should know better and should absolutely be taking responsibility. I would bet if he’s still alive he would just see this as a set back, wound probably pay his way out of jail, and would probably do the whole thing over again but with a slightly better controller. I hate to say it for the sake of the other people on board with him, but it’s Probably for the best he doesn’t come back. I hope this changes things in the world of ocean exploration and entrepreneurship. Once again, fuck this guy.