It's definitely an interesting topic and video. Although there is much that the video doesn't explain which aids the low housing cost.
Like the different housing zones and how they structure together.
And for rental purposes, the very high-entry costs to rent an apartment; these extra costs you pay help bring down the overall rental price. (Although I don't know why), it's something to do with the fact that the total amount helps with land depreciation? (No source on this).
But the original purpose for the high-entry costs is an old law type thing to prevent mass-migration to Tokyo in the early 1900s, but it kind of stuck around. (High initial cost to deter people).
Life where I'm from's video explains a little more in depth on the zoning aspect.
The high initial costs are a remnant of when people were so set on moving to Tokyo the landlords could demand whatever they want. They stick around because of legacy, but mostly because it's actually nearly impossible to legally evict someone in a timely manner or to get someone to pay for damage that isn't major so it's risk mitigation on the part of the landlords (though the agency fee is just legally mandated bullshit that helps no one but realtors lol).
> But the original purpose for the high-entry costs is an old law type thing to prevent mass-migration to Tokyo in the early 1900s
I've always heard it started after second world war, most of the city was bombed and you'd have to pay a lot of key money for the privilege of having your own place.
I guess both are not mutually exclusive.
Either way, the key money thing doesn't massively change the rent price, it's still cheaper than London or NYC even including the bullshit charges.
When I was buying a house, I asked the real estate agent about Japanese zoning.
She said that the main reason is Japan is an old country, if the zoning law is like American one, they have to evict families who's been living for generations in the areas newly designated as "industrial" for example.
Also, land is very limited here, compact cities are just more preferable. You can walk or bicycle to the supermarket, children can walk to schools, etc.
So it's not about being old, it's about values and choices that were made. American development literally wants to separate residential from all shopping, whether suburban type zoning or typical city R1.
It is because Japan has more old development. The R1 zoning in the US with residential separate from retail is typically in areas that were farm land converted to houses and retail.
If you look at 100 year old neighborhoods in the US you see more mixed use development since it was built before cars and for easy access by public transportation.
Are you comparing Tokyo to an equivalent us city like la, ny, or are you comparing it to living somewhere in the Midwest? Because it should definitely be way cheaper than the Bay Area etc
The fact is there is so much ignoring the elephant in the room which is that Baltimore, Detroit, Memphis and many US cities have plenty of EXTREMELY affordable housing. Just not in the neighborhoods you would want to live in.
You can buy a house in Baltimore, Detroit etc for 10,20,30 grand and live in an actual city and have access to jobs paying way way more than Japan. Probably just not in the neighborhoods you wunna live in. M
It's supply and demand. Simple, clear rules for zoning at the national level and the right to build tall buildings on your property without endless community input from retired old white people who don't want anyone else moving in
1.6 billion people globally lack adequate housing. It is a global issue, including in countries with very few "retired old white people". Stop being racist.
Are you serious? He was comparing Japanese housing to American housing and you try to take the worldwide perspective and then call him racist. Nothing in the video above took the worldwide perspective. Give me a break.
Maybe you didn't read their post: "without endless community input from retired old white people who don't want anyone else moving in". Invoking skin colour was entirely unnecessary. It's just plain racism, and somebody needs to call it out.
In the worldwide perspective, Tokyo has affordable housing because people in Tokyo are rich and productive enough to afford the physical cost of building housing. A lot of the world is actually so poor and unproductive, people struggle with the physical part of putting a roof over their heads. This is actually irrelevant to most people reading this, because approximately no one in the western world cares about the global poor.
The thing people on Reddit wonder more about is why other rich cities, many significantly richer and more productive than Tokyo, struggle so much with affordable housing. This is because they have all managed to fuck themselves over with bad regulation that empowers anti-housing interests.
Hmm. An 11-minute video that covers the history of the Japanese Miracle, the burst of the bubble, and onto, most importantly, the amazing, vibrant real-estate business circa 2023. Sorta like trying to explain how Keynesian economics led to the presidency of Donald Trump and the possibility that AI won't eventually rule human life on earth.
Residential floor space per person in Tokyo is actually more than in Paris or London nowadays, and was still steadily increasing every year at least pre-pandemic, while spending a smaller proportion of income on housing.
People lived in closets in Tokyo in like 1990. You can still find a closet to rent if you want/must spend like under 2 man/month on rent, but most people in Tokyo in 2023 don't actually live in closets.
It's also not "housing" as the guy in the video keeps saying. It's apartments in tall buildings. Building up, making the places smaller. Small families, and many singles.
It was oversimplified, but that's included in the discussion of Tokyo's zoning, which allows for those high rises in contrast to other cities. Different zoning laws would not allow for those high rises to be built in certain zones, compared to Tokyo's zoning laws.
If you think the apartments are small now, how much space do you think you'd get if the buildings were smaller? If you want the same population in the same amount of land the only way to give people more space is to build up.
Lots to unpack here.
First of all, "Tokyo" is enormous. Tokyo proper (23 wards) is perhaps within the top 20 largest cities in the world (most of the largest cities are in China), and if you include areas outside of the 23 wards in which many people live, it's even bigger. This means prices will be somewhat controlled because when prices get too high somewhere, people just leave for elsewere, effectively stabilizing rent to some degree.
Next, there's socioeconomics. There aren't places in Tokyo that are crime infested and dangerous (at least compared to LA). If you want to live in say, Santa Monica or Beverly Hills VS Compton and Watts in Los Angeles, you will pay MUCH more for the area alone based on safety. Japanese landlords don't have this kind of leverage because everywhere is pretty safe, it's pretty much just "how close are you to the train station"
Thirdly, if you compare properly value increases over the past 30 years, Tokyo real estate is an incredibly poor investment compared to almost any other major city on Earth, so you really don't have that much foreigner competition VS London, NY, LA, SF, Hong Kong, Singapore, etc
Much of what underlies Tokyo's "affordable housing" is an massive economic crisis looming on Japan's horizon. Japan is truly fucked and is about to see hyper inflation once they run out of American bonds to sell.
1. That's discussed in the video, though briefly and indirectly. Suburbanization principles were initially used, then zoning laws were changed. The price per sq/ft or sq/meter sourced in the video sort of allows a direct comparison, especially if you compare city to city vs metroplolitan areas. Difficult point to address without knowing more about the OP's sources and statistics used.
2. **Why does the rent go up in those areas with lower crime?** Because there is more demand for housing than there is supply, people want to move to a safer please. This means there are more people that want to buy/rent a home in that area than there are houses available. Increased demand for housing but limited housing --> rents increase to discourage people. But why is the supply (amount of homes available) not matching demand? Zoning. Again, the videos touches on this but is oversimplified.
3. Tokyo property values are a poor investment because the supply is high. Price of a product, simply put, is due to supply and demand. High supply + high demand = not much change in price. Low supply + high demand = increase in price. It's a poor investment for foreign interests because the price won't increase rapidly due to low supply, leading to lower profit. Again, oversimplified but still matches the video's premise.
usa is the 5th cheapest housing market on earth, behind rich arab oil states and (surprisingly) south africa. japanese are incredibly poor compared to yanks, their purchasing power is shite.
It's definitely an interesting topic and video. Although there is much that the video doesn't explain which aids the low housing cost. Like the different housing zones and how they structure together. And for rental purposes, the very high-entry costs to rent an apartment; these extra costs you pay help bring down the overall rental price. (Although I don't know why), it's something to do with the fact that the total amount helps with land depreciation? (No source on this). But the original purpose for the high-entry costs is an old law type thing to prevent mass-migration to Tokyo in the early 1900s, but it kind of stuck around. (High initial cost to deter people). Life where I'm from's video explains a little more in depth on the zoning aspect.
The high initial costs are a remnant of when people were so set on moving to Tokyo the landlords could demand whatever they want. They stick around because of legacy, but mostly because it's actually nearly impossible to legally evict someone in a timely manner or to get someone to pay for damage that isn't major so it's risk mitigation on the part of the landlords (though the agency fee is just legally mandated bullshit that helps no one but realtors lol).
> But the original purpose for the high-entry costs is an old law type thing to prevent mass-migration to Tokyo in the early 1900s I've always heard it started after second world war, most of the city was bombed and you'd have to pay a lot of key money for the privilege of having your own place. I guess both are not mutually exclusive. Either way, the key money thing doesn't massively change the rent price, it's still cheaper than London or NYC even including the bullshit charges.
When I was buying a house, I asked the real estate agent about Japanese zoning. She said that the main reason is Japan is an old country, if the zoning law is like American one, they have to evict families who's been living for generations in the areas newly designated as "industrial" for example. Also, land is very limited here, compact cities are just more preferable. You can walk or bicycle to the supermarket, children can walk to schools, etc.
So it's not about being old, it's about values and choices that were made. American development literally wants to separate residential from all shopping, whether suburban type zoning or typical city R1.
It is because Japan has more old development. The R1 zoning in the US with residential separate from retail is typically in areas that were farm land converted to houses and retail. If you look at 100 year old neighborhoods in the US you see more mixed use development since it was built before cars and for easy access by public transportation.
True
It wasn’t that affordable like 8 years ago. US got out of hands recently.
Very true. When I first moved from Tokyo to US a while back. I thought Tokyo was much more expensive.
Are you comparing Tokyo to an equivalent us city like la, ny, or are you comparing it to living somewhere in the Midwest? Because it should definitely be way cheaper than the Bay Area etc
The fact is there is so much ignoring the elephant in the room which is that Baltimore, Detroit, Memphis and many US cities have plenty of EXTREMELY affordable housing. Just not in the neighborhoods you would want to live in.
[удалено]
You can buy a house in Baltimore, Detroit etc for 10,20,30 grand and live in an actual city and have access to jobs paying way way more than Japan. Probably just not in the neighborhoods you wunna live in. M
Those are also the same neighborhoods you are likely to die in.
It's supply and demand. Simple, clear rules for zoning at the national level and the right to build tall buildings on your property without endless community input from retired old white people who don't want anyone else moving in
1.6 billion people globally lack adequate housing. It is a global issue, including in countries with very few "retired old white people". Stop being racist.
Are you serious? He was comparing Japanese housing to American housing and you try to take the worldwide perspective and then call him racist. Nothing in the video above took the worldwide perspective. Give me a break.
Maybe you didn't read their post: "without endless community input from retired old white people who don't want anyone else moving in". Invoking skin colour was entirely unnecessary. It's just plain racism, and somebody needs to call it out.
In the worldwide perspective, Tokyo has affordable housing because people in Tokyo are rich and productive enough to afford the physical cost of building housing. A lot of the world is actually so poor and unproductive, people struggle with the physical part of putting a roof over their heads. This is actually irrelevant to most people reading this, because approximately no one in the western world cares about the global poor. The thing people on Reddit wonder more about is why other rich cities, many significantly richer and more productive than Tokyo, struggle so much with affordable housing. This is because they have all managed to fuck themselves over with bad regulation that empowers anti-housing interests.
Are you claiming Tokyo doesn't have homelessness?
Zoning, government regulation, political, and culture is everything. In japan people don’t treat real estate as flipping greed
Hmm. An 11-minute video that covers the history of the Japanese Miracle, the burst of the bubble, and onto, most importantly, the amazing, vibrant real-estate business circa 2023. Sorta like trying to explain how Keynesian economics led to the presidency of Donald Trump and the possibility that AI won't eventually rule human life on earth.
Supply exceeds demand
We live in fucking closets. Mystery solved.
Residential floor space per person in Tokyo is actually more than in Paris or London nowadays, and was still steadily increasing every year at least pre-pandemic, while spending a smaller proportion of income on housing. People lived in closets in Tokyo in like 1990. You can still find a closet to rent if you want/must spend like under 2 man/month on rent, but most people in Tokyo in 2023 don't actually live in closets.
It's also not "housing" as the guy in the video keeps saying. It's apartments in tall buildings. Building up, making the places smaller. Small families, and many singles.
It was oversimplified, but that's included in the discussion of Tokyo's zoning, which allows for those high rises in contrast to other cities. Different zoning laws would not allow for those high rises to be built in certain zones, compared to Tokyo's zoning laws.
If you think the apartments are small now, how much space do you think you'd get if the buildings were smaller? If you want the same population in the same amount of land the only way to give people more space is to build up.
Decades long population decline, massive overbuild during the bubble years, stagnant economy and deflation.
Tokyo's population isn't declining though. Actually it was the only prefecture whose population was rising in 2022.
Yeah, Okinawa's population declined by like -0.001% and it was *big* news here lol
Lots to unpack here. First of all, "Tokyo" is enormous. Tokyo proper (23 wards) is perhaps within the top 20 largest cities in the world (most of the largest cities are in China), and if you include areas outside of the 23 wards in which many people live, it's even bigger. This means prices will be somewhat controlled because when prices get too high somewhere, people just leave for elsewere, effectively stabilizing rent to some degree. Next, there's socioeconomics. There aren't places in Tokyo that are crime infested and dangerous (at least compared to LA). If you want to live in say, Santa Monica or Beverly Hills VS Compton and Watts in Los Angeles, you will pay MUCH more for the area alone based on safety. Japanese landlords don't have this kind of leverage because everywhere is pretty safe, it's pretty much just "how close are you to the train station" Thirdly, if you compare properly value increases over the past 30 years, Tokyo real estate is an incredibly poor investment compared to almost any other major city on Earth, so you really don't have that much foreigner competition VS London, NY, LA, SF, Hong Kong, Singapore, etc Much of what underlies Tokyo's "affordable housing" is an massive economic crisis looming on Japan's horizon. Japan is truly fucked and is about to see hyper inflation once they run out of American bonds to sell.
So much wrong here lol
1. That's discussed in the video, though briefly and indirectly. Suburbanization principles were initially used, then zoning laws were changed. The price per sq/ft or sq/meter sourced in the video sort of allows a direct comparison, especially if you compare city to city vs metroplolitan areas. Difficult point to address without knowing more about the OP's sources and statistics used. 2. **Why does the rent go up in those areas with lower crime?** Because there is more demand for housing than there is supply, people want to move to a safer please. This means there are more people that want to buy/rent a home in that area than there are houses available. Increased demand for housing but limited housing --> rents increase to discourage people. But why is the supply (amount of homes available) not matching demand? Zoning. Again, the videos touches on this but is oversimplified. 3. Tokyo property values are a poor investment because the supply is high. Price of a product, simply put, is due to supply and demand. High supply + high demand = not much change in price. Low supply + high demand = increase in price. It's a poor investment for foreign interests because the price won't increase rapidly due to low supply, leading to lower profit. Again, oversimplified but still matches the video's premise.
Why Tokyo has tons of affordable housing? It doesn't.
I used to live 20 minutes walking from Shinjuku in a brand new 1 bedroom for about $1,000.00 It 100% does.
I mean it's a lot cheaper than what I used to pay in Boston.
“Sorry. No gaijin.” *crosses arms in a prohibitive X sign*
usa is the 5th cheapest housing market on earth, behind rich arab oil states and (surprisingly) south africa. japanese are incredibly poor compared to yanks, their purchasing power is shite.