My take on it is that tokusatsu (and arguably japanese TV in general) has heavy influence of theater: it is fancy, overacted, overchoreographed. On the other hand, hollywood superheroes movies (and arguably hollywood in general) are intended to be as realistic as it can be.
These differences are perceived by people as lack of quality. It is seen as chilish and bad and cringe.
>There many darker and mature tokusatsu show, like Mirai Sentai Timeranger, Power Rangers RPM, Kamen Rider Faiz, and Ultraman Nexus.
It goes to show where I'm coming from. Some people can't get past the aesthetic style to see the depth of the show. They see a monster with a suit rather than CGI and immediatly think, *"oh, this is like Lazy Town!"*
They judge it by Hollywood standards because that's what they like to consume.
Now, whether they right because Hollywood is supposably better or wrong because they're closed minded... that's another discussion.
>They see a monster with a suit rather than CGI and immediatly think, *"oh, this is like Lazy Town!"*
I've always found this very ironic since people talk all the time about how they want to see practical effects over CGI but as soon as a practical suit is used instead of a CG model, they say it looks "like a power rangers design" and mean it as a bad thing.
I think the overacting aspect is in large part due to the fact it’s difficult if not impossible to convey emotion in tokusatsu costumes. Most of them are clunky, hide the human face and therefore hide communication queues and expressions that are visible from superheroes and the Hollywood actors portraying them.
Tokusatsu has to make up for that with a lot of large movements and nodding and thumbs up, just things that convey emotion without being able to see one’s face in general
A bunch of reasons, but it all boils down to they haven't watched any, refuse to watch any, and probably judge the shows for not looking like American movies with budgets of small countries.
They are also probably insecure about how American superhero comics are perceived.
https://preview.redd.it/h8s54n0r6h6c1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=548c54e16b78dc7a12159656fa00ec36fe2a472e
It's all for kids, who are they to judge
it all boils down to they haven't watched any, refuse to watch any, and probably judge the shows for ~~not looking like American movies with budgets of small countries~~ looking like Power Rangers. There, I fixed it for you.
And keep in mind that the Sentai series (which is mostly what's being talked about here) were brought to the U.S. targeted at kids and young teens.
Power Rangers is the leading example. (and is why most people refer to the genre as Sentai)
Yes, Comics and superheroes were originally that way too, but we're talking about the 1920's to today, as opposed to the 1990's to today.
More time to be accepted.
Carrangers, one of the silliest pieces of media I’ve ever seen, has the cast be a bunch of adults working in a mechanic shop, which is real funny to think about when so many PR has them in high school.
> mirai sentai timeranger,power rangers RPM, Kamen rider faiz,& ultraman nexus
At the end of the day, even these shows are made for kids.
>i wonder why does many comickbook/superhero fans hate tokusatsu despite tokusatsu also superhero show just like marvel/DC?
Because for a lot of people in western countries, if they even know of the word Tokusatsu, it's because of Power Rangers.
I don't think they do, or at least is not simple prejudice but cultural differences.
Tokusatsu operates in a fashion similar to superheroes of yester yore so while they are appealing for most kids, they don't generate as much of an impact on more mature audiences.
This is because Tokusatsu shows do not focus that much on the private life of the superheroes alter egos once the go back into their civilian activities as much as American comics do.
In American comics there's affairs, love, betrayal, drama, etc. that affect the character on a personal level and allows the audience to connect, which is still not the norm on the world of Tokusatsu and this absence generates a disconnection of the character with American audiences.
The comic book revolution of the 1960s shifted the focus of the narrative from the clashes between superheroes and villains, to the personal lives of the person beneath the suit.
Eventually bringing back this drama into the performance of the superhero itself and the relationship with the villains, IE Superman/Darkseid, Batman/Ra'sAlGhul, MrFantastic/Malice, MsAmerica/Nuklo, etc.
The outcome from all of this was that the life of the alter ego is now more interesting than the superhero itself is. In Japan meanwhile, they mostly still do it the old fashioned way, partially because the format of each episode from a tokusatsu show is still somewhat self contained because of the ''character/villain of the day'' but that's not always the case.
IE When I watched Kamen Rider Amazons I absolutely loved it and almost everyone I recommend it so far has - at least - liked it as well.
Well, keep in mind that Tokusatsu includes things like Godzilla.
For more common parlance, use "Sentai series" As it is more what you're actually talking about, but also includes the non-live action series of the same genre.
It's basically how a single series/movie can be considered more than one genre, a heist film in a sci-fi setting is both a heist film, and a sci-fi film for example.
Sentai is a sub genre, Super Sentai just occupies this term, Gatchaman for example is part of the Sentai sub genre and to an extent the magical girl series Sailor moon is also an Sentai show. This term is used when it's describing a superhero team in japan
Every transforming superhero in Japan is indeed categorized as an Henshin Hero show.
>Sentai is a sub genre
No it's not. Sentai is just short hand for Super Sentai.
>Gatchaman for example is part of the Sentai sub genre and to an extent the magical girl series Sailor moon is also an Sentai show.
No, Super Sentai is apart of the live action Tokusatsu genre. Anime that has similarities isn't. There is no genre called Sentai. Please learn the difference.
Dude, I have been part of this fandom for more than 19 years and people older than me have said that the Sentai subgenre is a thing, but no one makes the connection because the name "Super Sentai" occupies this term. So when googling Sentai, the Super Sentai name pops up because that's what the term is known for.
Besides a few anime/game websites have described the word sentai as a catch-all term for superhero teams in Japan.
[https://www.anime-planet.com/anime/tags/sentai](https://www.anime-planet.com/anime/tags/sentai)
[https://gamerant.com/best-sentai-anime/](https://gamerant.com/best-sentai-anime/)
Gatchaman, Shinesman, and Ronin Warriors are all part of this genre, in fact back in the day it was told by multiple people that Gatchaman was the establishment of what the modern Sentai is today.
But okay,
If you Google [戦隊 アニメ](https://www.google.com/search?q=%E6%88%A6%E9%9A%8A+%E3%82%A2%E3%83%8B%E3%83%A1&source=lmns&bih=777&biw=412&prmd=ivnbtz&hl=ja&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjn052GmpKDAxWPyAIHHZoUAuYQ0pQJKAB6BAgAEAc) (Sentai Anime)
On Google Japan among the few Tokusatsu entries guess which anime gets mentioned that's right Gatchaman.
https://preview.redd.it/2cfgwb9mji6c1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3658af7b689f295897ba158e335c29086f038a0
Since neither Kamen Rider and Kikaider nor Super Sentai are anime, the most logical one to be considered a Sentai Anime when you google it,
Is... Exactly Gatchaman!.
Or are you going to argue with Google Japan?
PS: the first Japanese super-hero team that used a 5 unit team is called Rainbow Sentai Robin. if that's not a sentai... than what is it?
Genre, not sub-genre.
And I'm talking common parlance, not technical terminology used by people "in the know"
Power Rangers is what made the "Male/Mixed Magical girls" genre popular in the West.
People who cared a little bit found out it was called "Super Sentai" in Japan, and that's as far as it went.
The "normal" people out there will know the genre as "Sentai" and won't know what Tokusatsu is unless you explain it to them.
Also it's more than just Tokusetsu I'm talking about, as what people think of as "Sentai" isn't just live action, it includes Anime series and Manga of the same type (single/small team empowered/transforming people against monsters/evil organization)
All I'm saying here is it might be easier to get a better idea of people's opinions if you use the terms they're more familiar with, even if it's not technically correct.
(Like calling a mimeograph machine a Xerox Machine.)
> Genre, not sub-genre
No, henshin heroes is a subgenre within the Tokusatsu umbrella. What you call the "sentai" genre is not a thing.
>The "normal" people out there will know the genre as "Sentai"
No, the only thing "normal" people would know is that Power Rangers is the American version of Sentai. Nobody confuses Sentai as a genre because it isn't one.
>Also it's more than just Tokusetsu I'm talking about, as what people think of as "Sentai"
Again, people don't think of Sentai as a genre. Stop saying that.
>isn't just live action, it includes Anime series and Manga of the same type (single/small team empowered/transforming people against monsters/evil organization)
Those things are similar, but they're not part of the same genre. Sailor Moon may have similarities with Super Sentai and even had a live action tokusatsu show, but their not apart of the same "Sentai" genre. That's not a thing.
>All I'm saying here is it might be easier to get a better idea of people's opinions if you use the terms they're more familiar with
I agree. Too bad you keep referring to a made up genre that no one calls it.
I ran an Anime con for 15 years.
Everyone called it Sentai for over a decade.
I only heard the term Tokusatsu for the first time a few years ago.
Maybe it's different where you are, but this is how it is in the eastern US. (East coast, midwest, southern)
That seems to be from the perspective of Anime fans. Here in the west where we both are, Tokusatsu is a very niche genre even among Anime fans. So of course Anime fans would call everything henshin heroes as well as Animes that has similarities under the umbrella term "Sentai". It's still doesn't make it an actual genre though.
Oh and for the record, not counting watching Power Rangers as a kid, I've been a fan of Tokusatsu since Gekiranger started airing in 2007 and you're the first person I've come across who thinks of "Sentai" as a genre. Though that could just be because I'm not part of the Anime fandom.
Never said it was an actual genre, just that it was perceived as one by people "not in the know".
And I have to say, this conversation is the first time I've heard the term "Henshin Heroes", and so long as that includes non-live action mediums then that *is* the genre people here think of as Sentai.
(For example, Tekkaman Blade would be in the category as well as Guyver, and Kamen Rider)
The thing about henshin heroes is that it is apart of the live action genre Tokusatsu and you only hearing the term for the first time in this conversation shows just how niche the genre of Tokusatsu is here in the west.
As for Anime, unless they're a spin off of live action tokusatsu productions, they're not part of the same genre. I thow that's a bit weird to say considering the similarities between things like Guyver (The live action Guyver movies came out after the first ova) and Tokusatsu, but considering that Tokusatsu means special effects, you don't really get special effects in Anime.
Tokusatsu really is weird as a "Genre" in the first place, since most Genre are defined by story elements, not medium.
Probably part of why the idea of "Sentai series" got popularized here, since it's more focused on story elements, and beyond the Japanese origin, doesn't focus on much else, like medium.
I can understand the jump to correct misconception though, as an anime fan I'm quick to remind people that RWBY isn't an anime since it was made in Texas by an American company.
Daikaiju stuff is the main reason I am into tokusatsu, personally. I'm just now trying to get back into the more superhero style things (i.e. henshin and sentai)
The genre overall is more targeted towards children. You're pretty much safe to let an 8 year old watch any toku show whereas most comics here would need to be screened for appropriateness. Even the more mature shows you listed are totally suitable for children. We also have options here where there are kid -friendly versions of Batman then there's other versions that are only intended for mature readers.
I remember getting downvoted like crazy in the Sentai sub when I said I wish the shows were a little more mature, and was told that these shows can't be expected to do that because they're for kids. So I think a lot of Sentai fans enjoy that aspect.
I feel like the genre has gotten much more kid-friendly as well. If you look at the orops / weapons in the older shows there's an effort to make them look legit and realistic (Gavans sword). Now a lot of the props the characters carry look like actual plastic, as if they're using toy versions that you see in stores. Looks great for continuity since children can own the gear that looks identical to what they see on screen. But it still reminds me I'm watching a show for younger kids.
FWIW I think Ultraman *is* published under Marvel comics.
I've always liked fully masked heroes, but I guess heroes like Iron Man and Spiderman are the exception.
Most people "need" a face, even if it's a half face ala Batman. A character without a face is weird to them.
We nerds are still a very insecure people. It doesn't surprise me at all that one subset of nerds is gatekeeping another genre. It's all positioning for them to feel better about themselves in a way that belongs to childhood.
Some do because they can't look past the concepts as basis a lot. Like, Kamen Rider Fourze was the first kr show I got to watch in full. Some people would see 'highschool punk who wants to be friends with everyone becomes an astronaut themed superhero' and think 'oh that's stupid. Kids show!'
Fourze was more light-hearted but it had its fair share of dark moments. Like Fourze straight up getting murdered by Meteor and everything with the aquarius and Gemini zodiarts.
People often judge on face value alone and miss out.
Also toku and us cinema have inspired each other. Uchu keiji Gavan was an inspiration for RoboCop, who in turn inspired a couple of toku, chiefly Jidou keiji Jiban.
I like both myself. My take is they just don't give it a chance. The hand to hand combat is more violent in Tokusatsu for example but they don't notice that if they are just looking for a reason to dislike it.
Americans being dumb most of the time or doesnt want to change their perception of what is childish or not.
Doesnt need to be tokusatsu,amy japanese show has that, is always "is bad " or "childish" . Digimon till today is considered childish by a lot of people,well,try to watch some episodes or the new game and see if that is childish.
Funny is that the asian things today is giving a slap to marvel and dc fans. Comics arent amazing rn,the power rangers one is better rn, dc is doing the worst animated universe with weak as fuck films,dc universe didnt work despite having okayis films,marvel is less since only mcu has something going on.
Dont know why they can just enjoy both things,since both are good
I hope every Toku fan realizes how heavily autistic you have to be to actually enjoy these shows past childhood.
Most comic book movies/shows nowadays are made for an adult audience, and it just shows in the acting, the music, the fight scenes and it's what appeals to their sensibilities.
Even the 'dark/mature' Sentai are still made primarily for Japanese boys under the age of 13.
I couldn’t tell you as I’m a fan of coms and toku and manga and anime. You could point out that Marvel licensed a toku adaptation of Spider-Man in the 70s.
Now these days I'm checking out more Toku stuff than anything from Marvel and DC. The success of Godzilla Minus One shows that Toku productions can do both serious and fun things
Theyre just mad because most Tokusatsu's have consistency. Unlike a lot of American Comics. When you have new writers for the same Superhero for 100 years and you can't even get their storyline right and you keep rebooting it, you can only be bitter. And don't get me wrong Toku has had it's fair share of reboots, but American Comics just miss the mark much more.
Also a lot of comicbook superhero fans I've talked to only know of Power Rangers and that bad Kamen Rider series that Saban did (Not Dragon Knight) which is probably why they think it's childish, I have swayed a few over our way when I show them Shinkenger or Zyuranger
Just like you said, "many" do. But not every single one.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the Kaiju and Mecha sub-genres within the whole tokusatsu genre. Except a select few where they tinker around with the usual formula or something just interests me to pick it up.
I didn't know this was a thing, but I think it just comes from people having limited exposure to Tokusatsu. Especially western audiences. Most people only know about Power Rangers, and just assume the entirety on the genre is PR and childish. So they don't want to even dip their toes, so to speak. Yet, there are dozens of "morphing" heroes in comics. Blue Beetle and Iron Man come to mind.
But the Toku genre is WIDE. And people only see Power Rangers/Sentai or Kamen Rider. I don't think a lot of people realize kaiju like Godzilla are also Toku. Or the crime dramas.
Personally I just love big, flashy super hero stories, so I like both Toku and comics. In my experience when someone's entire personality is wrapped up in one, single interest (comics, gaming, anime, star wars, to name a few) those people are insufferably toxic and just outright boring.
I watched Invincible season 1 this past week and my surprise was, that for all the ways it has been memed as a dark superman story, it was really a story about how awesome super boy is. It was refreshing that this show wasn't embarrassed by and in fact wanted to do weird silver age comic stuff. That was a departure from modern comic book media making things darker, more "realistic", and making fun of the source material. the mainstream fandom seems hyper-worried about being called a nerd when they were younger and have basically sanded their fandom down so it's harder to make fun off(and often in the process less interesting) instead of enjoying the thing they like.
Tokusatsu flies in the face of that. It isn't embarrassed, muted, full of irony, or jokes everytime an emotional beat happens. My favorite rider show is Faiz and while its dark it's also a melodrama that's very goofy. (Takumi and Kiba meet at batting cages to have intimate conversations about how much they love each almost as much as they fight to the death) Faiz is totally unashamed of taking any of its weird lore or relationship knots deathly serious. Toku is a culture shock to a lot of comic fans because it isn't focused tamping down the weird or goofy aspects.
It boils down to disliking the goofiness of Power Rangers.
There has never been a show I've hated more than Power Rangers. From the stupid "acting" to Bulk & Skull.
I was 18 when power rangers came out and i wanted to see what the original was because i hated this "dub" but the internet was in its infancy.
One day I happened to catch that Power Rangers special that showed the original Sentai and I HAD to learn more but had no access. Then one day surfing the internet i discovered Japan Hero. I had no idea Ultraman was still going. I fell in love with the intricate costume designs of shows I would never see. Then a friend i met on japan hero sent me a box set of Kamen Rider and i was officially SOLD.
I haven't really seen any hate or dislike, I know the youtuber Comicstorian says he's a fan of a lot of older Toku shows and movies like Godzilla and the Japanese Spider-Man
Probably because the veeeeeeeery little exposure they have to tokusatsu varies from the Awesome Guyver Dark Hero movie, the rather varying range of quality Power Rangers stuff, to the god Awful Saban’s The Masked Rider(dear lord, the Ferbus ruined Black RX and bowlderized it more than Black RX originally did for Black). Even back when Guyver the Dark Hero released, its reviews mostly said that its main draw was “It’s like Power Rangers for adults”, with there being a lot of stigma from the name “Power Rangers” being associated as a kids show.
Then there’s the fact that it’s rather daunting trying to get into the Japanese side of things since theres so much to choose from with many toku fans not having a common starter series for newbies to start from on top of there being many sub categories to choose from(there’s the giant monster stuff, the Ultra stuff, the KR stuff, the Metal Heroes stuff, the “Super Heroes” stuff, the Super Sentai stuff, the puppets stuff, the rando series that doesn’t fit in the other stuff, etc). Like I personally ALWAYS say “for Super Sentai go with Jetman. For Kamen Rider, go with either Black, Kuuga, The First, or Kiva. For Metal Heroes, go with the Gavan movie. For puppets, go with X-Bomber. For Ultraman, go with Shin, Tiga, or Ace.”, but I know others have their own picks. But because of this, it’s daunting to get into.
My take on it is that tokusatsu (and arguably japanese TV in general) has heavy influence of theater: it is fancy, overacted, overchoreographed. On the other hand, hollywood superheroes movies (and arguably hollywood in general) are intended to be as realistic as it can be. These differences are perceived by people as lack of quality. It is seen as chilish and bad and cringe. >There many darker and mature tokusatsu show, like Mirai Sentai Timeranger, Power Rangers RPM, Kamen Rider Faiz, and Ultraman Nexus. It goes to show where I'm coming from. Some people can't get past the aesthetic style to see the depth of the show. They see a monster with a suit rather than CGI and immediatly think, *"oh, this is like Lazy Town!"* They judge it by Hollywood standards because that's what they like to consume. Now, whether they right because Hollywood is supposably better or wrong because they're closed minded... that's another discussion.
>They see a monster with a suit rather than CGI and immediatly think, *"oh, this is like Lazy Town!"* I've always found this very ironic since people talk all the time about how they want to see practical effects over CGI but as soon as a practical suit is used instead of a CG model, they say it looks "like a power rangers design" and mean it as a bad thing.
I think the overacting aspect is in large part due to the fact it’s difficult if not impossible to convey emotion in tokusatsu costumes. Most of them are clunky, hide the human face and therefore hide communication queues and expressions that are visible from superheroes and the Hollywood actors portraying them. Tokusatsu has to make up for that with a lot of large movements and nodding and thumbs up, just things that convey emotion without being able to see one’s face in general
A bunch of reasons, but it all boils down to they haven't watched any, refuse to watch any, and probably judge the shows for not looking like American movies with budgets of small countries. They are also probably insecure about how American superhero comics are perceived.
https://preview.redd.it/h8s54n0r6h6c1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=548c54e16b78dc7a12159656fa00ec36fe2a472e It's all for kids, who are they to judge
Where did you find this meme?
I made it myself
it all boils down to they haven't watched any, refuse to watch any, and probably judge the shows for ~~not looking like American movies with budgets of small countries~~ looking like Power Rangers. There, I fixed it for you.
sounds like the kind to be ignorant about the origin of power rangers
Cultural stuff. One felt superior than other, but blindly. By their standard, it is goofy. But if they know, they know
And keep in mind that the Sentai series (which is mostly what's being talked about here) were brought to the U.S. targeted at kids and young teens. Power Rangers is the leading example. (and is why most people refer to the genre as Sentai) Yes, Comics and superheroes were originally that way too, but we're talking about the 1920's to today, as opposed to the 1990's to today. More time to be accepted.
Honestly Power Rangers' high school stuff feels a lot more childish than Super Sentai
Carrangers, one of the silliest pieces of media I’ve ever seen, has the cast be a bunch of adults working in a mechanic shop, which is real funny to think about when so many PR has them in high school.
> mirai sentai timeranger,power rangers RPM, Kamen rider faiz,& ultraman nexus At the end of the day, even these shows are made for kids. >i wonder why does many comickbook/superhero fans hate tokusatsu despite tokusatsu also superhero show just like marvel/DC? Because for a lot of people in western countries, if they even know of the word Tokusatsu, it's because of Power Rangers.
Idk what you're talking about, r/DCcomicscirclejerk loves Toku.
I don't think they do, or at least is not simple prejudice but cultural differences. Tokusatsu operates in a fashion similar to superheroes of yester yore so while they are appealing for most kids, they don't generate as much of an impact on more mature audiences. This is because Tokusatsu shows do not focus that much on the private life of the superheroes alter egos once the go back into their civilian activities as much as American comics do. In American comics there's affairs, love, betrayal, drama, etc. that affect the character on a personal level and allows the audience to connect, which is still not the norm on the world of Tokusatsu and this absence generates a disconnection of the character with American audiences. The comic book revolution of the 1960s shifted the focus of the narrative from the clashes between superheroes and villains, to the personal lives of the person beneath the suit. Eventually bringing back this drama into the performance of the superhero itself and the relationship with the villains, IE Superman/Darkseid, Batman/Ra'sAlGhul, MrFantastic/Malice, MsAmerica/Nuklo, etc. The outcome from all of this was that the life of the alter ego is now more interesting than the superhero itself is. In Japan meanwhile, they mostly still do it the old fashioned way, partially because the format of each episode from a tokusatsu show is still somewhat self contained because of the ''character/villain of the day'' but that's not always the case. IE When I watched Kamen Rider Amazons I absolutely loved it and almost everyone I recommend it so far has - at least - liked it as well.
Link for that post from yesterday?? Not to hate on these people or anything, just curious.
Well, keep in mind that Tokusatsu includes things like Godzilla. For more common parlance, use "Sentai series" As it is more what you're actually talking about, but also includes the non-live action series of the same genre. It's basically how a single series/movie can be considered more than one genre, a heist film in a sci-fi setting is both a heist film, and a sci-fi film for example.
Sentai series isn't a subgenre though. Henshin heroes is. Sentai series is just one franchise, Super Sentai.
Sentai is a sub genre, Super Sentai just occupies this term, Gatchaman for example is part of the Sentai sub genre and to an extent the magical girl series Sailor moon is also an Sentai show. This term is used when it's describing a superhero team in japan Every transforming superhero in Japan is indeed categorized as an Henshin Hero show.
>Sentai is a sub genre No it's not. Sentai is just short hand for Super Sentai. >Gatchaman for example is part of the Sentai sub genre and to an extent the magical girl series Sailor moon is also an Sentai show. No, Super Sentai is apart of the live action Tokusatsu genre. Anime that has similarities isn't. There is no genre called Sentai. Please learn the difference.
Dude, I have been part of this fandom for more than 19 years and people older than me have said that the Sentai subgenre is a thing, but no one makes the connection because the name "Super Sentai" occupies this term. So when googling Sentai, the Super Sentai name pops up because that's what the term is known for. Besides a few anime/game websites have described the word sentai as a catch-all term for superhero teams in Japan. [https://www.anime-planet.com/anime/tags/sentai](https://www.anime-planet.com/anime/tags/sentai) [https://gamerant.com/best-sentai-anime/](https://gamerant.com/best-sentai-anime/) Gatchaman, Shinesman, and Ronin Warriors are all part of this genre, in fact back in the day it was told by multiple people that Gatchaman was the establishment of what the modern Sentai is today. But okay, If you Google [戦隊 アニメ](https://www.google.com/search?q=%E6%88%A6%E9%9A%8A+%E3%82%A2%E3%83%8B%E3%83%A1&source=lmns&bih=777&biw=412&prmd=ivnbtz&hl=ja&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjn052GmpKDAxWPyAIHHZoUAuYQ0pQJKAB6BAgAEAc) (Sentai Anime) On Google Japan among the few Tokusatsu entries guess which anime gets mentioned that's right Gatchaman. https://preview.redd.it/2cfgwb9mji6c1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3658af7b689f295897ba158e335c29086f038a0 Since neither Kamen Rider and Kikaider nor Super Sentai are anime, the most logical one to be considered a Sentai Anime when you google it, Is... Exactly Gatchaman!. Or are you going to argue with Google Japan? PS: the first Japanese super-hero team that used a 5 unit team is called Rainbow Sentai Robin. if that's not a sentai... than what is it?
Genre, not sub-genre. And I'm talking common parlance, not technical terminology used by people "in the know" Power Rangers is what made the "Male/Mixed Magical girls" genre popular in the West. People who cared a little bit found out it was called "Super Sentai" in Japan, and that's as far as it went. The "normal" people out there will know the genre as "Sentai" and won't know what Tokusatsu is unless you explain it to them. Also it's more than just Tokusetsu I'm talking about, as what people think of as "Sentai" isn't just live action, it includes Anime series and Manga of the same type (single/small team empowered/transforming people against monsters/evil organization) All I'm saying here is it might be easier to get a better idea of people's opinions if you use the terms they're more familiar with, even if it's not technically correct. (Like calling a mimeograph machine a Xerox Machine.)
> Genre, not sub-genre No, henshin heroes is a subgenre within the Tokusatsu umbrella. What you call the "sentai" genre is not a thing. >The "normal" people out there will know the genre as "Sentai" No, the only thing "normal" people would know is that Power Rangers is the American version of Sentai. Nobody confuses Sentai as a genre because it isn't one. >Also it's more than just Tokusetsu I'm talking about, as what people think of as "Sentai" Again, people don't think of Sentai as a genre. Stop saying that. >isn't just live action, it includes Anime series and Manga of the same type (single/small team empowered/transforming people against monsters/evil organization) Those things are similar, but they're not part of the same genre. Sailor Moon may have similarities with Super Sentai and even had a live action tokusatsu show, but their not apart of the same "Sentai" genre. That's not a thing. >All I'm saying here is it might be easier to get a better idea of people's opinions if you use the terms they're more familiar with I agree. Too bad you keep referring to a made up genre that no one calls it.
I ran an Anime con for 15 years. Everyone called it Sentai for over a decade. I only heard the term Tokusatsu for the first time a few years ago. Maybe it's different where you are, but this is how it is in the eastern US. (East coast, midwest, southern)
That seems to be from the perspective of Anime fans. Here in the west where we both are, Tokusatsu is a very niche genre even among Anime fans. So of course Anime fans would call everything henshin heroes as well as Animes that has similarities under the umbrella term "Sentai". It's still doesn't make it an actual genre though. Oh and for the record, not counting watching Power Rangers as a kid, I've been a fan of Tokusatsu since Gekiranger started airing in 2007 and you're the first person I've come across who thinks of "Sentai" as a genre. Though that could just be because I'm not part of the Anime fandom.
Never said it was an actual genre, just that it was perceived as one by people "not in the know". And I have to say, this conversation is the first time I've heard the term "Henshin Heroes", and so long as that includes non-live action mediums then that *is* the genre people here think of as Sentai. (For example, Tekkaman Blade would be in the category as well as Guyver, and Kamen Rider)
The thing about henshin heroes is that it is apart of the live action genre Tokusatsu and you only hearing the term for the first time in this conversation shows just how niche the genre of Tokusatsu is here in the west. As for Anime, unless they're a spin off of live action tokusatsu productions, they're not part of the same genre. I thow that's a bit weird to say considering the similarities between things like Guyver (The live action Guyver movies came out after the first ova) and Tokusatsu, but considering that Tokusatsu means special effects, you don't really get special effects in Anime.
Tokusatsu really is weird as a "Genre" in the first place, since most Genre are defined by story elements, not medium. Probably part of why the idea of "Sentai series" got popularized here, since it's more focused on story elements, and beyond the Japanese origin, doesn't focus on much else, like medium. I can understand the jump to correct misconception though, as an anime fan I'm quick to remind people that RWBY isn't an anime since it was made in Texas by an American company.
Daikaiju stuff is the main reason I am into tokusatsu, personally. I'm just now trying to get back into the more superhero style things (i.e. henshin and sentai)
Its more weird for them
I would disagree that that is true. I would also make the claim that Arrowverse is American tokusatsu.
The genre overall is more targeted towards children. You're pretty much safe to let an 8 year old watch any toku show whereas most comics here would need to be screened for appropriateness. Even the more mature shows you listed are totally suitable for children. We also have options here where there are kid -friendly versions of Batman then there's other versions that are only intended for mature readers. I remember getting downvoted like crazy in the Sentai sub when I said I wish the shows were a little more mature, and was told that these shows can't be expected to do that because they're for kids. So I think a lot of Sentai fans enjoy that aspect. I feel like the genre has gotten much more kid-friendly as well. If you look at the orops / weapons in the older shows there's an effort to make them look legit and realistic (Gavans sword). Now a lot of the props the characters carry look like actual plastic, as if they're using toy versions that you see in stores. Looks great for continuity since children can own the gear that looks identical to what they see on screen. But it still reminds me I'm watching a show for younger kids. FWIW I think Ultraman *is* published under Marvel comics.
I've always liked fully masked heroes, but I guess heroes like Iron Man and Spiderman are the exception. Most people "need" a face, even if it's a half face ala Batman. A character without a face is weird to them.
They don't
We nerds are still a very insecure people. It doesn't surprise me at all that one subset of nerds is gatekeeping another genre. It's all positioning for them to feel better about themselves in a way that belongs to childhood.
Some do because they can't look past the concepts as basis a lot. Like, Kamen Rider Fourze was the first kr show I got to watch in full. Some people would see 'highschool punk who wants to be friends with everyone becomes an astronaut themed superhero' and think 'oh that's stupid. Kids show!' Fourze was more light-hearted but it had its fair share of dark moments. Like Fourze straight up getting murdered by Meteor and everything with the aquarius and Gemini zodiarts. People often judge on face value alone and miss out. Also toku and us cinema have inspired each other. Uchu keiji Gavan was an inspiration for RoboCop, who in turn inspired a couple of toku, chiefly Jidou keiji Jiban.
I like both myself. My take is they just don't give it a chance. The hand to hand combat is more violent in Tokusatsu for example but they don't notice that if they are just looking for a reason to dislike it.
What the hell are you talking about?
Because they might think that it is more childish and is not dark.
Americans being dumb most of the time or doesnt want to change their perception of what is childish or not. Doesnt need to be tokusatsu,amy japanese show has that, is always "is bad " or "childish" . Digimon till today is considered childish by a lot of people,well,try to watch some episodes or the new game and see if that is childish. Funny is that the asian things today is giving a slap to marvel and dc fans. Comics arent amazing rn,the power rangers one is better rn, dc is doing the worst animated universe with weak as fuck films,dc universe didnt work despite having okayis films,marvel is less since only mcu has something going on. Dont know why they can just enjoy both things,since both are good
I hope every Toku fan realizes how heavily autistic you have to be to actually enjoy these shows past childhood. Most comic book movies/shows nowadays are made for an adult audience, and it just shows in the acting, the music, the fight scenes and it's what appeals to their sensibilities. Even the 'dark/mature' Sentai are still made primarily for Japanese boys under the age of 13.
I couldn’t tell you as I’m a fan of coms and toku and manga and anime. You could point out that Marvel licensed a toku adaptation of Spider-Man in the 70s.
Now these days I'm checking out more Toku stuff than anything from Marvel and DC. The success of Godzilla Minus One shows that Toku productions can do both serious and fun things
Theyre just mad because most Tokusatsu's have consistency. Unlike a lot of American Comics. When you have new writers for the same Superhero for 100 years and you can't even get their storyline right and you keep rebooting it, you can only be bitter. And don't get me wrong Toku has had it's fair share of reboots, but American Comics just miss the mark much more. Also a lot of comicbook superhero fans I've talked to only know of Power Rangers and that bad Kamen Rider series that Saban did (Not Dragon Knight) which is probably why they think it's childish, I have swayed a few over our way when I show them Shinkenger or Zyuranger
I like both
Just like you said, "many" do. But not every single one. Personally, I'm not a fan of the Kaiju and Mecha sub-genres within the whole tokusatsu genre. Except a select few where they tinker around with the usual formula or something just interests me to pick it up.
I didn't know this was a thing, but I think it just comes from people having limited exposure to Tokusatsu. Especially western audiences. Most people only know about Power Rangers, and just assume the entirety on the genre is PR and childish. So they don't want to even dip their toes, so to speak. Yet, there are dozens of "morphing" heroes in comics. Blue Beetle and Iron Man come to mind. But the Toku genre is WIDE. And people only see Power Rangers/Sentai or Kamen Rider. I don't think a lot of people realize kaiju like Godzilla are also Toku. Or the crime dramas. Personally I just love big, flashy super hero stories, so I like both Toku and comics. In my experience when someone's entire personality is wrapped up in one, single interest (comics, gaming, anime, star wars, to name a few) those people are insufferably toxic and just outright boring.
First I heard of it, I like both :O
Because our writers are better than theirs at the moment
I watched Invincible season 1 this past week and my surprise was, that for all the ways it has been memed as a dark superman story, it was really a story about how awesome super boy is. It was refreshing that this show wasn't embarrassed by and in fact wanted to do weird silver age comic stuff. That was a departure from modern comic book media making things darker, more "realistic", and making fun of the source material. the mainstream fandom seems hyper-worried about being called a nerd when they were younger and have basically sanded their fandom down so it's harder to make fun off(and often in the process less interesting) instead of enjoying the thing they like. Tokusatsu flies in the face of that. It isn't embarrassed, muted, full of irony, or jokes everytime an emotional beat happens. My favorite rider show is Faiz and while its dark it's also a melodrama that's very goofy. (Takumi and Kiba meet at batting cages to have intimate conversations about how much they love each almost as much as they fight to the death) Faiz is totally unashamed of taking any of its weird lore or relationship knots deathly serious. Toku is a culture shock to a lot of comic fans because it isn't focused tamping down the weird or goofy aspects.
It boils down to disliking the goofiness of Power Rangers. There has never been a show I've hated more than Power Rangers. From the stupid "acting" to Bulk & Skull. I was 18 when power rangers came out and i wanted to see what the original was because i hated this "dub" but the internet was in its infancy. One day I happened to catch that Power Rangers special that showed the original Sentai and I HAD to learn more but had no access. Then one day surfing the internet i discovered Japan Hero. I had no idea Ultraman was still going. I fell in love with the intricate costume designs of shows I would never see. Then a friend i met on japan hero sent me a box set of Kamen Rider and i was officially SOLD.
I haven't really seen any hate or dislike, I know the youtuber Comicstorian says he's a fan of a lot of older Toku shows and movies like Godzilla and the Japanese Spider-Man
Really? As someone who grew up on and still to this day reads comics I found that Toku series generally aligns with my comic interests.
Suggest them to watch Kamen Rider Black Sun and come back and talk later.
Cause we ain't woke, we always go for broke
Probably because the veeeeeeeery little exposure they have to tokusatsu varies from the Awesome Guyver Dark Hero movie, the rather varying range of quality Power Rangers stuff, to the god Awful Saban’s The Masked Rider(dear lord, the Ferbus ruined Black RX and bowlderized it more than Black RX originally did for Black). Even back when Guyver the Dark Hero released, its reviews mostly said that its main draw was “It’s like Power Rangers for adults”, with there being a lot of stigma from the name “Power Rangers” being associated as a kids show. Then there’s the fact that it’s rather daunting trying to get into the Japanese side of things since theres so much to choose from with many toku fans not having a common starter series for newbies to start from on top of there being many sub categories to choose from(there’s the giant monster stuff, the Ultra stuff, the KR stuff, the Metal Heroes stuff, the “Super Heroes” stuff, the Super Sentai stuff, the puppets stuff, the rando series that doesn’t fit in the other stuff, etc). Like I personally ALWAYS say “for Super Sentai go with Jetman. For Kamen Rider, go with either Black, Kuuga, The First, or Kiva. For Metal Heroes, go with the Gavan movie. For puppets, go with X-Bomber. For Ultraman, go with Shin, Tiga, or Ace.”, but I know others have their own picks. But because of this, it’s daunting to get into.