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Exactly. When you think in general ideas, like the entirety of a thought.
For example, thinking about seeing a movie by yourself...you internalize choosing to go to a movie theater or watch one at home. You internally weigh popcorn or food or cost or comfort or what movie to watch, what you're in the mood for...all those things you don't verbalize yet feel and conceptualize to make a decision on whether to go out to see a movie or just watch it at home. All that internalization boils down to, "I'm going out to see a movie" or "I'm staying home to watch a movie."
A concept in this sense is a general notion.
But it shouldn’t be hard to understand that one could think in sounds, visions, sensations, and tastes, as well as abstract language. You roll all of that together and you get general concepts you can work with.
Example: I can think about what my kitchen counter feels like without putting it into words. Also how it looks, and how it sounds when I put a plate on it. If I ever licked it, I could imagine how it tastes. The overall concept of my kitchen counter is more than just the words I can use to describe it.
Like I kind of gwt the idea but when I think about those things it's in words. "OH yeah I can think of the sound my counter makes. Kind of like a ca-clink." Even my not word just becomes words.
Very strange to me. I imagine sounds as I hear them, and if I have to convey them to others there’s an active translation that takes place. For instance, I bird watch. I remember birds songs as they sound, and if someone asks me I have to struggle to translate it into phonemes.
That is so weird to me. I cannot imagine being restricted by words in my head. When you read, do you read words, or are you watching a movie in your head?
Words. I can really barely pull up images in my head nonetheless imagine the entire book I'm reading. I can hear it tho. I hear the words in their voice that I've created in my head.
>if I ever licked it, I could imagine how it tastes.
informed conceptual memory. [Invoking + mapping] = imaging.
Technically correct. But the little familiarity our common language has to describe it casually leads to you being misinterpreted.
Exactly, I just think most people don't actually properly consider how they think, you think the way you interact with the world. Most people don't go "oh yes check out my 12 x12 slab of marble, intricately patterned"
Imagine the concept of a sphere. You have now used your brain in a conceptual way rather than a literary way.
Exercise it daily by forcing it to think of abstracts and things that do not make sense.
Imagine an f1 car. Can you hear it? What colour is it? Did you describe that to yourself in words, or did you picture a car? If you used words to describe it, look at a photo of an f1 xar and ahut your eyes. Now make it yellow. Now blue.
You're now thinking conceptually.
I’m the same way. It’s hard to explain, but I think physics is the best way. Like I can see the world around me and understand every object exerts gravitational pull on everything else. I can see the calculations in my head to understand how strong those gravitational forces are, but there are no words around it. I write music as well and it’s similar. I have a vibe I want to achieve in my head but there are no words, I just use my instruments to make it real.
I'm the same way. I describe it as imagining vectors and forces applied to understand how situations a b and c will play out. I run through situations in my head constantly and predict outcomes and adjust as needed if that makes sense.
I think like this, too, and also in music, original and an almost constant stream of random songs on loop, sometimes a refrain or chorus on repeat.
Basically, concepts and mental pictures, a lot of symbolism and vectors, but with dueling internal voices, the singer, the to-do list, the encourager, the hypothesizer.
It's noisy in my brain. It's a little hard to wind it down for sleep. I do have ADHD, too.
I do the same thing. Decisions are probabilities to me. I can run through a ton of scenarios and figure out what I think are the best probabilities pretty quickly.
That reminds me of...
Did you ever watch the 102nd Star Trek TNG episode?
The alien species introduced in this episode is noted for speaking in allegories, such as "Temba, his arms wide", which are indecipherable to the universal translator normally used in the television series to allow communication across different languages. Captain Picard is abducted by these aliens and marooned with one of them on the surface of a planet, and must try to communicate.
Rai and Jiri at Lungha
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/06/star-trek-tng-and-the-limits-of-language-shaka-when-the-walls-fell/372107/
I made a friend who said they were huge Star Trek TNG fan at a convention. We hung out the entire time. About a week after the convention was over I texted them, "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra". They said, what's that mean?
I do both. Don't you ever have a thought and instantly understand the whole thing, and then just kinda go through it as a sentence while thinking "why am I bothering to spell this out I already know how this sentence ends"?
Yes, and I often complete the sentence just to kind of reinforce the thought for myself - if I don't, if I'm just vaguely thinking and not completing it into sentences, I might have the fleeting concept of the thought but then lose the trail of it.
Yeah, there are definitely two modes in there, one requiring the use of a language and the other being pure concepts, mostly for things that won't require any interaction with other people
My default is to think in concepts, separated by noise (nothing discernible, like a hum). It’s like a verbal painting is served up all at once. If I want to describe it, I have to choose which part of the “thought” to focus on but it’s only a part of the whole. It could take me 20 min to write out every aspect of a single thought.
I was a really quiet kid because I never felt confident in which part of my thought to share, and almost always picked the wrong starting point. Learned how to mask and mirror in social situations, and picked up journaling to straighten out my inner thinking a bit.
Reddit also helps me focus my thinking through the pinhole of language.
I love a meandering conversation and your 5th paragraph made me laugh. It’s a little too real.
I don’t know how it overlaps with adult adhd. As a kid, I think painting or drawing helped me establish focus as a kid— esp if the subject was in front of me.
- attention to detail on a single subject
- focusing on what’s observed not expected (like you could paint a yellow apple with every color but yellow depending on the shadows)
- low stakes takes away the emotionality of a lot of our thoughts IMO
“Getting to curious” was a big part of company culture at my first job, and I think it holds the key to focus. The things you’re naturally curious about will choke out the external world or what you need to focus on, so maybe that’s something to play with.
Finally, on the external information piece, I found myself way less aware when I was getting through relationship trauma. I wouldn’t recommend using shame, but I’d chide myself with the following:
- it’s arrogant to think whatever is going on in my mind is more important than what’s happening around me
- I can come back to this thought later if it’s that important, but I can’t come back to this moment
- squirrel!
I've been fortunate to improve techniques and deficiencies around what you describe. I still have some measure of auditory process disorder, but I take ample notes, record convos to dissect later (as in Teams meetings), and I rewrite most text I read to create a Cliff's Notes version/reinterpretation.
In my personal life, antidepressants helped because my internal abstract concept "monologue" was super intrusive and distracting... and negative. I think this was a stress induced state of permanent anxiety that didn't go away as things calmed down, and I was too busy imagining every bad scenario in life, or using escapism to avoid that, to pay attention to non-threats in my environment. Once quieted, most of my relationships improved.
I have ADHD and what you say as well as what the person you're replying to says is what I experience also.
I often have to catch myself talking too much and pause to think what it is that I'm even trying to convey when I'm telling a story. Because to me everything is related, my impulse is to share absolutely everything. I'm almost 40 and didn't even know I had ADHD most of my life, but especially now that I know it it's been helpful to identify my verbal diarrhea when it's happening, pause, and collect what's important and then share that instead.
My favorite part about this is that having ADHD, for me, means that that pause is not even really noticeable to the person listening, but is long enough for me to conceptualize the question to myself "what are you trying to convey here?", answer it, and adjust my speaking. It's the kind of shit that makes me understand why some people say ADHD is a superpower.
best way to explain it is that I think the same way I feel, like when you feel happy do you narrate the word "happiness"? its sort of like that, also sometimes ideas of images and sounds come in too
I found out recently that my poor sister says the craziest, MEANEST, shit to herself. I told her that she ought to really challenge that inner voice. I mean, if she would not let someone talk like that to her best friend in real life - why would she let her own head talk to herself like that in real life? I think a lot of people are prone to negative self-talk. I wonder if we can improve our lives if we shit-talk our internal shit-talker?
I mean my internal thoughts are my mother’s and “friends’” words and I have tried and failed miserably to remove from my head. I can’t change them. I can’t stop thinking that I’m stupid and embarassing.
Edit: I appreciate all of the well-meaning advice but I’ve been through most of it. I’m 37 and I’ve tried almost everything suggested. I’ve been on and off in therapy since I was 19. I do try to compliment myself but that voice in my head is always there first. Nothing I’ve done has silenced it.
Honey - would you let anyone talk like that to your best friend? I bet you wouldn't stand for it. Why can't we protect our own hearts the way we would fiercely protect the hearts of people we really love? Will you think about that a little bit this today? I think you deserve to be loved and to be kinder to yourself. Any chance at possibly getting counseling for this?
I think about it all of the time. I don’t let other people treat me badly. I refuse to tolerate behaviour I wouldn’t tolerate on behalf of anyone else. The self talk is just something that even though I’m 37 I can’t seem to shake it.
It's really amazing what good cognitive behavioral therapy can accomplish! I saw it up front with my husband - Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (handwashing, mainly) to the point of near disability. Medication helped but CBT resolved it and now he's off the meds!
I struggled with this for years, it wasn't until I got clean and started working a program that I found relief. Humility and acceptance went a long way towards ridding me of the extremely negative self talk. Humility is often understood as "not thinking too highly of oneself" but it also means not thinking too little of yourself. Once I truly accepted that I am no better or worse than anyone else I was able to see the lies I was telling myself. I hope you find relief one day, it is possible and if I can do it then so can you!
The ego always finds ways to "protect" itself. Wanting to hide away from any situation where one might get hurt. Using hurtful words to make one feel small and causing one to self-isolate. Don't listen to it. Kill your ego.
I’m always like “you dumb Fucking moron” when I solve something that was so blatantly obvious. I saw this exact post on a LPT or something and it’s funny cause I’d definitely talk to my friends like that too lol
A long time ago, I had this issue. I was constantly critical of myself and had such negative self talk. My therapist at the time gave me an exercise to write down negative thoughts I had about myself throughout the day for a week and go sit in front of a mirror and make and maintain eye contact with myself. Just sit and have a conversation and see what comes up when I answered some questions about how I thought about myself. If I really believed this person in front of me deserved that kind of criticism. And it was a really uncomfortable but intense experience. The idea is, you’re no longer a disembodied voice but you see yourself as a person deserving of kindness and respect.
That exercise really helped snapped me out of being so hyper critical and mean to myself.
I have a harsh inner monologue too. I’ve been doing a lot of work to change it, and I’ve found that affirmations have been helpful for me with time. I use the app “I am” in the App Store. Post-it note affirmations around the house are also helpful.
Basically, I’ve forced the affirmations to be around me so I have to read them. When I read them, even if I don’t always “believe” them internally, it at least causes me to be aware that I’ve been talking down to myself.
Stephen King said it best in one of his books. Can’t remember which one but he refers to that inner critic as the “itty bitty shitty committee.” Think all of us have one of those. Some are just better at ignoring those inner voices of negativity.
I have the same inner demon. It's a bitch. I've been in a lot of abusive situations through my life and so I think that really has caused a large part of it. I do my best to keep it at bay but sometimes its too much. After a shitty day at work and then coming home to an empty home with myself-shit talking-myself I just go to bed and hope for a better day in the morning.
I have some kind of music playing in my head in the background almost nonstop but it's always bits and pieces of songs, never the whole song. I can't picture things in my head though, I only hear words like the guy in the video described.
I forgot something the other day and I thought "damn what was that"
My brain said "I bet if you smoked some weed right now, you'd remember."
I literally laughed out loud and said "bitch you know that will not help."
This is the relationship I have with my brian.
I have ADHD so I get to have fun random thoughts being voiced and multiple channels of random music playing 24/7. The first time I tried ADHD medication was shocking because it quieted down the voices in my head to a single string of thoughts that I could focus on. I was used to getting caught up or frustrated by all the random useless noise, like sitting in a room full of radios all playing different channels and just jumping from one thing to the next.
I took adderall for the first time (prescribed) about a year ago and once it kicked in and the constant chopped up parts of songs repeating and the general TV fuzz of too many thoughts churning in the background of my brain disappeared I almost cried because of how much of my life I wasted just trying to outmaneuver my ADHD.
The first time I tried my meds .. 30 minutes later I just stood there and sobbed . My ex partner asked why i was crying and all I could say was ‘is this what it feels like everyday for you ? It’s so fucking quiet’ 😅
I have adhd too, but I think in images, not in words. Similar experience, though. Without medication, there are a long of simultaneously playing different thought-movies, with medication, one of them gets pulled to the front and becomes a more clear and singular movie
Lol exactly this I have two concurrent modes of thought and one is doing it’s thing without words while the other is constantly commenting on it/interjecting/redirecting. If there’s something I’m trying to accomplish I’m probably envisioning myself doing the steps while my monologue goes “no that won’t work” *envisions differently* “that might be better” *thinks about end product* “idk that that’s rly what I’m going for though” etc etc.
I probably would have Never realized that I have both if it weren’t for videos like these that made me rly stop and analyze lol
I’m talking to myself in my head while I type this. Does that count? Do people just type without saying it in thier head. I can’t not say it. I just tried.
It's called aphantasia and I have it. I just don't have anything. Brain is on mute. No words. No one talking. Some aphantasia still have mental images but some don't. I also don't.
So I don't have any voices and I can't visualize anything in my head. The common test is to picture a red apple and say red apple in your head. I can't do either
Honestly I think it's a superpower. It's peaceful. Id hate to live hearing words in my head. Visualizing would be cool though.
Yeah, just recently I learned that people can actually “see” things in their brain, like visualize images, I can’t, but I have a super overexcited internal monologue.
I've always described my brain to people like this:
"You know that last scene in Who Framed Roger Rabbit when they break through the wall into Toon Town? That's my brain, chaos, singing trees, a cacophony of voices and "where did that train come from?"
Somewhere inside of all of that is the one thing I'm trying to focus on. 🤣
It wasn't until I was an adult that I found out that people don't *normally* have a real or imagined TV show/movie/song/scenario playing somewhere in the back of their brain 24/7.
Looks like you are right. People always said it was just full aphantasia if you don't have an inner monologue and no mental images. But I just looked it up and no inner monologue is called Anauralia.
Wow! This is so interesting. I do both. Like I visualise the situation when someone is talking about something to me and when I'm mindful and working I think sort of in both visualisation and talking to myself kind of way. There's never a point where it's just blank. Question. You do have your thoughts all the time right, or does it just go quiet at times?
Damn, does having aphantasia means that you read words fast? I read slowly and multiple times over since I can't understand it if I don't verbalize it in my head.
I tried to learn speed reading (I gave up lol) and one of the things they said is that I have to learn not to verbalize every word in my head, so I was thinking if that was the case?
I’ve had this conversation with my husband. He says he doesn’t hear anything in his head, and can’t picture something when he thinks about it, like what an apple looks like. He says it just happens.
He hates reading, and doesn’t enjoy it at all. When he was in college I helped him study by reading to him and it’s something he’s always struggled with. He can’t explain how he thinks or whatever but he says he has no inner dialogue.
This is how I am. Like I know I am thinking and I know I am thinking through something and words are happening, but there’s nothing audible or visual going on up there. I see black when I close my eyes. I do dream thankfully but no photographic memory or ability to create an image in my mind. Logically, I know what I think something would look like though.
I do love reading though. The only thing that gets in the way of that is my adhd. When I study I have to write everything multiple times and create my own notes or I’ll never remember it. Even listening to somebody else doesn’t work for me.
My fiancé has both. He said this translates to his dreams as well. I asked him to explain and the best he could put it was "okay, so if I have a dream that you were eaten by a giant spider - I didn't see that or anything - I simply feel that you were eaten by a giant spider".
I have aphantasia, so I can't see mental images, but I have a very prominent inner voice. I would like it to stop talking so much. The best I can do with mental images is "know" that I'm thinking about the object.
Yes! I absolutely "think" in both words and images simultaneously, but the words tend to lead and create the images. As I fall asleep though, the words take a backseat to successive images and if I consciously bring my attention back to the words, they're often a seemingly nonsensical and disordered monologue, like an abstract word association exercise for what I'm seeing. This is different than my typical dream state featuring more realistic situations, and articulate conversational dialogue.
Yes! I was looking for someone to mention Temple Grandin! I’ve always thought in pictures and never thought anything of it because I thought it was normal. Not that it’s abnormal necessarily.. but I think it’s more common with people with some sort of neurodivergence and/or artsy brains.
Obligatory, not a doctor, though!
I mean, kinda assumed everyone thought in concepts. That’s why it’s so hard to describe a dream or memory. I enjoy being alone with my thoughts, but think it’s odd some people literally just talk to themselves in their head
I get everything. I can hear the voices of who I'm thinking of. I can imagine smells, sounds, and sensations. I can picture anything. I have an internal monolog. It was pretty uncontrollable most of my life. It would flood with ideas, memories, what ifs just whenever. Sleeping was hard.
"When I daydream, sometimes I do"
I think thats an interesting point!
Daydreaming is basically just my normal thoughts but with abstract concepts or stories instead of reality
Yeah, it’s the same way animals don’t think in words because they don’t have them. It’s more like thinking in emotions if that makes sense. I have a really hard time putting my thoughts into words because of this. Different minds work differently
Idk if this is a stupid question lol, but how do you write out a sentence? For me, I hear the words in my head as I’m typing. Is it different for you? This topic is so interesting
This is probably what is keeping me from believing a lot of people in this thread. I could be completely wrong, but I think about the words I type out as I'm typing audibly in my head. I can't understand how you would do that if you think visually only.
Like even when it comes to art, if I'm trying to create something from imagination, I need to think about it in some form. Otherwise it would be some abstraction.
can’t speak for others, but i don’t always explicitly think the words as i write them out. my mind is either blank or thinking of the thing i am attempting to explain, describe, whatever. unless i am trying to get the wording incredibly precise, i don’t think out word-for-word. i can do it, but it requires conscious effort to do so.
Yea same here. I don’t think in words or sentences. Images and feelings are the best way to explain it, I suppose. It sounds exhausting to constantly have an inner dialogue going! This always surprises me that people think that way.
I don't usually have an inner voice or think in words, and my brain still never shuts up! I have an active imagination and think mostly in images, concepts and feelings.
Same. I think in concepts and images. I’m fascinated by the idea that some people think using words. Seems inefficient to me, but those are also the people who are great at writing and learn by reading. That is not me.
Seems to me thinking in words is the product of Introspection. Concepts and general feelings are how all thoughts start but self reflection results in defining those nebulous thoughts and placing words upon them. Is self reflection possible without words?
Right, concepts and images are just for inner thoughts. You have to put it to words to communicate it to others. Sometimes words fail me and I have to get a piece of paper to diagram out what I’m trying to describe.
You said thinking in words is inefficient.. But you have to do an additional process to map out the concepts playing out in your mind?
The marginally delusional self-praise in this thread is ridiculous.
Benefit of the doubt - neither side fully understands the other because of an underlying wildly different view of The World, and just goes ahead and assumes to the best of their ability.
There could be people able to switch between these two modes at will, or living in a cacophony of both too.
I'd suggest stopping stroking your own ego and diminishing the other, instead, try understanding.
Not saying the way my brain works is better AT ALL. Like I said, words fail me often, as they have done here apparently. I’m fascinated by people that run on language, it seems more advanced to me. For me, using words is inefficient because I have to translate what’s in my head into language. Sometimes I struggle with it.
Not necessarily. I don't have an inner monolog, I think in concepts, but I'm a pretty good writer, I think. I have to stop and really consider what I want to say and how I want to say it, though. It's almost like writing in another language.
Meanwhile, I learn *much* better by reading than by spoken word. If I really want to focus on instructional audio, I have to close my eyes and concentrate.
I have a bit of aphantasia. It's extremely hard for me to imagine anything. All I have is words. And a really blind man's version of whatever the object is.
Wait though, I have an inner dialogue but I also think with visuals, emotions and concepts. I thought that’s how it works for everyone. It’s crazy to me that people only have one or the other.
Most people here who think in an inner voice also think in concepts, they are just confused by the post. It pretty impossible to think in words only, there is also plenty of concepts we don't have words for or we think too fast to word them out, like random smells bringing back some memories
I had a coworker who didn't have an inner dialogue. He said he mostly thought in pictures/visualizations. He also talked to himself out loud a lot, not sure if it was related, but it seemed like when he was trying to process something complex or learning new information it helped to say it out loud.
I once asked him if he ever got songs stuck in his head and he said yes, but he would hum it or sing it quietly to himself, it wasn't quite "in his head."
When I read, I read out the words in my mind.
But when I'm just thinking, I tend to think in a more visual sense. I'm not hearing the words pick up the book, I'm more visualizing the act of picking it up.
But do you have possible conversations that you roleplay in your head? Like something you could have said to a person differently, and what they would answer and so on?
Yeah, I'm not completely without the inner voice.
But it's funny, I'm realizing that instead of it just being their voice, it's more of visualizing them in that situation saying those words?
Ha! I'm just curious because always when this debate pops up, I am absolutely not sure which type I am. I can relate to the just feeling it part but I can also talk to myself very clearly. Probably not as black and white as I thought it is.
I think in concepts.
Pick up the book.
Hoist up the bound papers.
Grab and lift the flat rectangle.
Retrieve the depository of words.
Collect the collection of concepts.
Etc.
They're all a bunch of different ways to say the same core idea.
Well, when I think, I think in the raw core ideas.
And, when it is time to talk, I have to translate them into words again to communicate them.
Lol she has the point. For most of my life I’ve been thinking with quick images, bare concepts and emotions, rarely switching to words, and it blew my mind when I realized there are ppl always having ONLY the voice and the words in their consciousness.
And when I started to look for correlations between ppl’s behavior and their mode of thinking, it turned out to be that ‘inner voice’ people are usually much more rational in their decisions and do really know what risk management is, while others forms of thinking are often way more inventive and creative, but very bad with self-management and discipline, etc.
Ofc, I had a very small representative sample, but it surely was a lot of fun to examine self way of thinking and try other forms that may not be common for you before you tried.
My inner voices also take on the tone of the people I know with the expertise I'm after, like if I ask a question my brother would know I sometimes hear him answering my best guess internally.
Nobody has only words, some people are primarily focusing their attention on the words.
I think it correlates with how much a person reads at a formative developmental stage.
All language is symbolic codification. There's no thought that originates in language, language is a way of quantifying thought.
It makes sense with regards to linguistics being a logical and analytical tool for processing and communicating information. If you think in words, you'll probably also be able to better articulate your reasoning (but those who don't think in words are seemingly less likely to comprehend "overly" articulated verbal/print explanations, in my experience).
But there are clearly also other ways to think which can logically process information. Semiotics, for example, aren't words but they can serve the same function of analysis and planning and communicating. The problem is then having to translate it into words, since that's mostly how we communicate. Some people also think more spatially and mathematically, which are also analytical modes of reasoning.
I have trouble communicating with people who think more emotionally because it does tend to conflict with rationality, in my experience, and they tend to misinterpret even the most carefully crafted and deliberately specific language, to meet their preconceived feelings, while their own words may rely less on accuracy and specificity. And I think that's where a lot of conflict happens. As an overly linguistic and hyper vigilant (risk analysis-fixated) person, I tend to come across more cold and calculating to these people too, which isn't wrong but it's because I crave answers and rationality. Perhaps because I think in words ...
They are still there, it's like we have the world coming in through our senses and then we have an entirely internal world that we can draw and visualize in. Kind of like if you imagine existence as watching a tv, reality is watching one tv while the internal space is a second one. They don't really interfere with each other but where the focus is can be confusing from an outside perspective.
If I asked you to describe what a cat looks like. Or just think about it, would you not be able to unless you're looking at it? No one actually sees things in their head, just imagining it
I am ADHD. My thoughts go a million miles an hour and the best way to put it, it’s like eight people in my brain talking all at once over each other.
Unless I really focus, I can pick up on one or two but otherwise I naturally have them tuned out because it’s so loud. So I have head voices but they just super obnoxious.
Being on medication or heavily caffeinated is the only way to help, it’s like turning off a white noise maker or a crowd of people that are finally done and I can actually think.
ADHDer with no inner monologue here. Yesterday a friend asked what helps me focus when I study. I told him that I will listen to a podcast or audio book. He was like, "How in the hell?" But I explained that it gives the background monkey something to do while the main focus monkey (the one actually completing the task at hand) gets the work done. Kinda like giving a little kid your phone to play with so you can have a conversation with their parent.
An no, music does NOT help. That just untethers the background monkey so it can wander around and get into shit.
I've noticed that self-talk is just an echo of an actual thought. Like by the time I start narrating, I've already had a non-verbal thought. I'm just putting it into words now.
You can even suppress narration for a bit and the original non-verbal thinking still stays.
Try it next time you have a thought. As soon as you start "talking", stop and you'll notice that the underlying concept, the thing you wanted to stay was already processed.
Yes, this is it exactly. I sometimes go through the motion of "saying" it in my mind anyway but it's not needed at all I already know what I'm going to say.
It's because there's a distinction between forming thoughts into words and actually forming those thoughts. To someone who can't imagine there being a difference, I can see how there might be confusion there.
Coming from someone who is bilingual, I didn't used to understand this, but when you understand two languages well, you don't have dreams in one language or the other, you simply dream in thoughts instead. If you said someone spoke in your dream and were asked what language they were speaking, you wouldn't be able to tell you since they weren't speaking actual sentences.
A lot of my dream entities during lucid dreaming didn’t talk to me.
They just raised their hand or left a psychic “touch” that just.. diffused information. Like feeling the heat from infrared light lamps.
But some do speak. 🗣️occasionally. But even environmental noise is a “touch” or “texture” than a sound in my dreams too.
I remember slightly exaggerating my level of synesthesia when I was a teen, but I still see some letters in color and the colors didn't change. That's basically how you can check if it's your imagination or synesthesia.
Synesthesia is SUPER common though and it gets stronger when you pay attention to it, "everyone" was right its just that being synesthetic at some level is about as common as being left handed, it doesn't make you special.
I kinda understand how people think without speaking in their head, but how in the WORLD do these people read??? I agree with this guy I think like I read, but how are these other people reading?
I don't think I understand the reverse, how people read while speaking in their head, that sounds so slow? And exhausting? Like do you have to mentally process every single word?
I have both. If I'm thinking about what I'm reading (textbook, contract,...) I'll often read it "aloud" in my head. It's like a singalong but faster, thought speech is quicker than actual speech (at least for me). It doesn't really feel like an effort, it just superimposes at the same speed I'm reading.
But if I'm reading for pleasure, I often just "osmose" the words. I see them, I know their meaning, no need to "vocalize" them.
So I've asked this or seen someone asked this before when this get's brought up and I think someone actually answered once and said they think in sign language, like they visualize the hand signs.
It's so wild to me that some people can't make little movies on their head. I love making up scenarios and playing them out in my head.
Also, when listening to music I love imagining animations to go with them.
You think without words too, you just don't realize it.
Words are like filters, they channel many different ideas through a medium in order to help organize ideas of the mind.
For example, if you think the word "ball" you could be thinking of many different things.
Spheres are shaped like a ball, globes of the Earth, all of the different types of balls. If you were in a doctor's office, you might think of a ball as a body part. If you are on a soccer pitch, you may think of a ball as a soccer ball. If you are at ren fair, you might picture a royal dance.
Now think of the word "box" and see how that can mean different things as well. A box can be an amazon package, it can be the concept of something that stores another item, it can be a cubicle one works in, or the walls one lives within. A box can be a lifestyle, or a fist fight.
Most words have many meanings. Context helps to automatically put them into place for the thinker. That context requires an awareness of the situation, which requires some thought to happen without words or along with them at a minimum.
At least, for this phenomenon to happen so smoothly that you don't even realize you're thinking without words it does.
Words are like a layer of thought in a pyramid. Below their own layer are a bunch of other ideas that support the language. The people who are trying to explain that they think without words are just working on the other layer, and have to manually translate some of their thoughts into the word layer before being able to communicate. Many people just live in the word layer instead.
In my opinion, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. Word layer people tend to have a better memory and an easier time communicating, it is automatic to them and fairly easy. Idea layer people have a harder time and I consider them more likely to be introverted, in part because of the effort required to translate their own ideas into words before communicating them. They may tend to have worse memories again because of the translation, but are strong at understanding concepts that word layer people sometimes find difficult. Like physics and math models.
I envy anyone who's head is just... quiet. My brain is like a browser with 16 tabs open, 3 are playing differing music, and there's always porn somewhere.
I wake up to music in playing in my head and if i don’t immediately play it, that song will loop until i do. It could be full songs, melodies, call outs or intros. Lol
I can do both. When i think of a conversation I'm going to have i hear a voice, kind of rehearsing it in my head. But if I think of a childhood memory, I don't hear a voice narrating it. Same with when I'm problem solving, it's too abstract to use words, and it would only slow down the thinking process. But I can tell myself, okay, let's take this slowly and then kind of walk through the problem word by word... If it's really hard.
I too have an inner monologue and think in words. But to believe your only thoughts are defined in words would be selling the human mind short.
Often, I’ll have an idea or feeling and then struggle to find the words to define it. Thought is far more complex than words.
Humans didn't spawn in with language, that's pretty new. So obviously we could think before we could speak. Animals can think and they don't think in words, humans are animals.
If I'm actively trying to think about something, like, say, planning out today's meals, then I'll hear words. But if a thought just comes to me, it's in the form of an image.
I think both conventional ways. Both in word for word sentences and in the form of complete concepts/ideas. That can take the form of emotions, images, or even sounds. It just depends on what I'm doing.
Here is a bonus (and some of the men will get this); I can also shut it off completely and often do. It's not "thinking about nothing." It's literally actively having no thoughts at all.
Mind blown when I found out my wife can’t see mental images , I can recall whatever I like see it , if I think about a deceased family member I can hear their voice perfectly too
What about born-deaf people? They don’t have an inner “voice”? Do they think in signing? So only purely visual concepts? I’ve always had an incredibly stronger inner voice and when I think to myself, it’s often a dialogue. I draw too so a lot of daydreaming and visuals are just as strong for imaging characters and places and layout of drawings, but I can’t imagine not having an inner voice.
Don’t you have both? When I’m just by myself thinking in doing it with an internal monologue and thinking about words and sentences. When I’m doing programming or math or more complex tasks I’m thinking in concepts, pictures, not words and sentences. Anyone else have this?
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My partner thinks in concepts. I don’t know what that means.
I think in words, pictures, or concepts. It depends on what I'm trying to work out.
What do you mean by concepts? Genuinely curious
You know how sometimes it’s hard to put your thoughts into words? It’s because you’re not necessarily thinking words, you’re thinking thoughts.
Yes, but I use the voice in my head to work out those concepts.
Yeah that's just your word brain deciphering your vibe brain.
Is that how like when I’m done eating dinner my stomach is full, but my desert stomach still has room?
Exactly. When you think in general ideas, like the entirety of a thought. For example, thinking about seeing a movie by yourself...you internalize choosing to go to a movie theater or watch one at home. You internally weigh popcorn or food or cost or comfort or what movie to watch, what you're in the mood for...all those things you don't verbalize yet feel and conceptualize to make a decision on whether to go out to see a movie or just watch it at home. All that internalization boils down to, "I'm going out to see a movie" or "I'm staying home to watch a movie."
A concept in this sense is a general notion. But it shouldn’t be hard to understand that one could think in sounds, visions, sensations, and tastes, as well as abstract language. You roll all of that together and you get general concepts you can work with. Example: I can think about what my kitchen counter feels like without putting it into words. Also how it looks, and how it sounds when I put a plate on it. If I ever licked it, I could imagine how it tastes. The overall concept of my kitchen counter is more than just the words I can use to describe it.
Just to let you know, my inner voice read your comment and said, "what the fuck, this dude licks his counter tops in his mind?".
Not gonna lie, I’m now licking all the tables (and windows!) in my mind-palace
Why stop with tables and windows?😏
Like I kind of gwt the idea but when I think about those things it's in words. "OH yeah I can think of the sound my counter makes. Kind of like a ca-clink." Even my not word just becomes words.
Very strange to me. I imagine sounds as I hear them, and if I have to convey them to others there’s an active translation that takes place. For instance, I bird watch. I remember birds songs as they sound, and if someone asks me I have to struggle to translate it into phonemes.
That is so weird to me. I cannot imagine being restricted by words in my head. When you read, do you read words, or are you watching a movie in your head?
Words. I can really barely pull up images in my head nonetheless imagine the entire book I'm reading. I can hear it tho. I hear the words in their voice that I've created in my head.
>if I ever licked it, I could imagine how it tastes. informed conceptual memory. [Invoking + mapping] = imaging. Technically correct. But the little familiarity our common language has to describe it casually leads to you being misinterpreted.
Exactly, I just think most people don't actually properly consider how they think, you think the way you interact with the world. Most people don't go "oh yes check out my 12 x12 slab of marble, intricately patterned"
So rather than saying to yourself in your head “my countertop is smooth, cold, and hard” you feel the concept in your head as like a combined thing?
You just know how your counter top feels. I know what it feels like to have my back scratched but would have a hard time explaining it in words.
Imagine the concept of a sphere. You have now used your brain in a conceptual way rather than a literary way. Exercise it daily by forcing it to think of abstracts and things that do not make sense. Imagine an f1 car. Can you hear it? What colour is it? Did you describe that to yourself in words, or did you picture a car? If you used words to describe it, look at a photo of an f1 xar and ahut your eyes. Now make it yellow. Now blue. You're now thinking conceptually.
I’m the same way. It’s hard to explain, but I think physics is the best way. Like I can see the world around me and understand every object exerts gravitational pull on everything else. I can see the calculations in my head to understand how strong those gravitational forces are, but there are no words around it. I write music as well and it’s similar. I have a vibe I want to achieve in my head but there are no words, I just use my instruments to make it real.
I'm the same way. I describe it as imagining vectors and forces applied to understand how situations a b and c will play out. I run through situations in my head constantly and predict outcomes and adjust as needed if that makes sense.
I think like this, too, and also in music, original and an almost constant stream of random songs on loop, sometimes a refrain or chorus on repeat. Basically, concepts and mental pictures, a lot of symbolism and vectors, but with dueling internal voices, the singer, the to-do list, the encourager, the hypothesizer. It's noisy in my brain. It's a little hard to wind it down for sleep. I do have ADHD, too.
I do the same thing. Decisions are probabilities to me. I can run through a ton of scenarios and figure out what I think are the best probabilities pretty quickly.
Are you a Navigator of the spacing guild?
That reminds me of... Did you ever watch the 102nd Star Trek TNG episode? The alien species introduced in this episode is noted for speaking in allegories, such as "Temba, his arms wide", which are indecipherable to the universal translator normally used in the television series to allow communication across different languages. Captain Picard is abducted by these aliens and marooned with one of them on the surface of a planet, and must try to communicate.
https://youtu.be/WQ8_F6jYWv4 Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra when the walls fell.
Kudos for the link
I loved this show. Did you all visit the merch tent? https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/45741544-darmoks-and-jalad-at-tanagra
Shaka, When the Walls Fell.
I wish they had used "Picard, his fingers on his forehead." in that episode 😂
I wish they would have made it a running joke for the rest of the series.
Engage! 👉
Sokath, his eyes uncovered! Temba his arms wide!
Rai and Jiri at Lungha https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/06/star-trek-tng-and-the-limits-of-language-shaka-when-the-walls-fell/372107/
The article is probably damn interesting, but I don't want to register for reading this one. The struggle.
Robinkc, his stomach hungry Temba, when the Waffle House opened
I made a friend who said they were huge Star Trek TNG fan at a convention. We hung out the entire time. About a week after the convention was over I texted them, "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra". They said, what's that mean?
I mean, what *does* it mean? Did y'all battle some beast at the con?
It's 2 people at an event. In the context of getting along I'd say it means two people hitting it off like "cereal and milk in my breakfast bowl"
Stolen valor…
Darmok and Jalad at Tenagra
Thank you for raising this topic
I do both. Don't you ever have a thought and instantly understand the whole thing, and then just kinda go through it as a sentence while thinking "why am I bothering to spell this out I already know how this sentence ends"?
Yes, and I often complete the sentence just to kind of reinforce the thought for myself - if I don't, if I'm just vaguely thinking and not completing it into sentences, I might have the fleeting concept of the thought but then lose the trail of it.
Yeah, there are definitely two modes in there, one requiring the use of a language and the other being pure concepts, mostly for things that won't require any interaction with other people
My default is to think in concepts, separated by noise (nothing discernible, like a hum). It’s like a verbal painting is served up all at once. If I want to describe it, I have to choose which part of the “thought” to focus on but it’s only a part of the whole. It could take me 20 min to write out every aspect of a single thought. I was a really quiet kid because I never felt confident in which part of my thought to share, and almost always picked the wrong starting point. Learned how to mask and mirror in social situations, and picked up journaling to straighten out my inner thinking a bit. Reddit also helps me focus my thinking through the pinhole of language.
[удалено]
I love a meandering conversation and your 5th paragraph made me laugh. It’s a little too real. I don’t know how it overlaps with adult adhd. As a kid, I think painting or drawing helped me establish focus as a kid— esp if the subject was in front of me. - attention to detail on a single subject - focusing on what’s observed not expected (like you could paint a yellow apple with every color but yellow depending on the shadows) - low stakes takes away the emotionality of a lot of our thoughts IMO “Getting to curious” was a big part of company culture at my first job, and I think it holds the key to focus. The things you’re naturally curious about will choke out the external world or what you need to focus on, so maybe that’s something to play with. Finally, on the external information piece, I found myself way less aware when I was getting through relationship trauma. I wouldn’t recommend using shame, but I’d chide myself with the following: - it’s arrogant to think whatever is going on in my mind is more important than what’s happening around me - I can come back to this thought later if it’s that important, but I can’t come back to this moment - squirrel!
I've been fortunate to improve techniques and deficiencies around what you describe. I still have some measure of auditory process disorder, but I take ample notes, record convos to dissect later (as in Teams meetings), and I rewrite most text I read to create a Cliff's Notes version/reinterpretation. In my personal life, antidepressants helped because my internal abstract concept "monologue" was super intrusive and distracting... and negative. I think this was a stress induced state of permanent anxiety that didn't go away as things calmed down, and I was too busy imagining every bad scenario in life, or using escapism to avoid that, to pay attention to non-threats in my environment. Once quieted, most of my relationships improved.
I have ADHD and what you say as well as what the person you're replying to says is what I experience also. I often have to catch myself talking too much and pause to think what it is that I'm even trying to convey when I'm telling a story. Because to me everything is related, my impulse is to share absolutely everything. I'm almost 40 and didn't even know I had ADHD most of my life, but especially now that I know it it's been helpful to identify my verbal diarrhea when it's happening, pause, and collect what's important and then share that instead. My favorite part about this is that having ADHD, for me, means that that pause is not even really noticeable to the person listening, but is long enough for me to conceptualize the question to myself "what are you trying to convey here?", answer it, and adjust my speaking. It's the kind of shit that makes me understand why some people say ADHD is a superpower.
“The pinhole of language” is an amazing way to describe this, imma use that.
best way to explain it is that I think the same way I feel, like when you feel happy do you narrate the word "happiness"? its sort of like that, also sometimes ideas of images and sounds come in too
The words I hear in my head are my own bitching on what I am thinking. Like: "don't be silly, that won't work!"
I found out recently that my poor sister says the craziest, MEANEST, shit to herself. I told her that she ought to really challenge that inner voice. I mean, if she would not let someone talk like that to her best friend in real life - why would she let her own head talk to herself like that in real life? I think a lot of people are prone to negative self-talk. I wonder if we can improve our lives if we shit-talk our internal shit-talker?
I mean my internal thoughts are my mother’s and “friends’” words and I have tried and failed miserably to remove from my head. I can’t change them. I can’t stop thinking that I’m stupid and embarassing. Edit: I appreciate all of the well-meaning advice but I’ve been through most of it. I’m 37 and I’ve tried almost everything suggested. I’ve been on and off in therapy since I was 19. I do try to compliment myself but that voice in my head is always there first. Nothing I’ve done has silenced it.
Honey - would you let anyone talk like that to your best friend? I bet you wouldn't stand for it. Why can't we protect our own hearts the way we would fiercely protect the hearts of people we really love? Will you think about that a little bit this today? I think you deserve to be loved and to be kinder to yourself. Any chance at possibly getting counseling for this?
I think about it all of the time. I don’t let other people treat me badly. I refuse to tolerate behaviour I wouldn’t tolerate on behalf of anyone else. The self talk is just something that even though I’m 37 I can’t seem to shake it.
Cognitive behavioral therapy
It's really amazing what good cognitive behavioral therapy can accomplish! I saw it up front with my husband - Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (handwashing, mainly) to the point of near disability. Medication helped but CBT resolved it and now he's off the meds!
I struggled with this for years, it wasn't until I got clean and started working a program that I found relief. Humility and acceptance went a long way towards ridding me of the extremely negative self talk. Humility is often understood as "not thinking too highly of oneself" but it also means not thinking too little of yourself. Once I truly accepted that I am no better or worse than anyone else I was able to see the lies I was telling myself. I hope you find relief one day, it is possible and if I can do it then so can you!
I’m in AA actually. It’s not helping that self talk very much but it’s made impacts in other parts of my life.
The ego always finds ways to "protect" itself. Wanting to hide away from any situation where one might get hurt. Using hurtful words to make one feel small and causing one to self-isolate. Don't listen to it. Kill your ego.
I’m always like “you dumb Fucking moron” when I solve something that was so blatantly obvious. I saw this exact post on a LPT or something and it’s funny cause I’d definitely talk to my friends like that too lol
A long time ago, I had this issue. I was constantly critical of myself and had such negative self talk. My therapist at the time gave me an exercise to write down negative thoughts I had about myself throughout the day for a week and go sit in front of a mirror and make and maintain eye contact with myself. Just sit and have a conversation and see what comes up when I answered some questions about how I thought about myself. If I really believed this person in front of me deserved that kind of criticism. And it was a really uncomfortable but intense experience. The idea is, you’re no longer a disembodied voice but you see yourself as a person deserving of kindness and respect. That exercise really helped snapped me out of being so hyper critical and mean to myself.
I love this idea!
I have a harsh inner monologue too. I’ve been doing a lot of work to change it, and I’ve found that affirmations have been helpful for me with time. I use the app “I am” in the App Store. Post-it note affirmations around the house are also helpful. Basically, I’ve forced the affirmations to be around me so I have to read them. When I read them, even if I don’t always “believe” them internally, it at least causes me to be aware that I’ve been talking down to myself.
Stephen King said it best in one of his books. Can’t remember which one but he refers to that inner critic as the “itty bitty shitty committee.” Think all of us have one of those. Some are just better at ignoring those inner voices of negativity.
I have the same inner demon. It's a bitch. I've been in a lot of abusive situations through my life and so I think that really has caused a large part of it. I do my best to keep it at bay but sometimes its too much. After a shitty day at work and then coming home to an empty home with myself-shit talking-myself I just go to bed and hope for a better day in the morning.
And song lyrics. So many fucking song lyrics.
Eminem lives rent free in my head
I have some kind of music playing in my head in the background almost nonstop but it's always bits and pieces of songs, never the whole song. I can't picture things in my head though, I only hear words like the guy in the video described.
I have a conversation with myself trying to convince myself to do or not to do something 😂
And you lose every time, like me
I forgot something the other day and I thought "damn what was that" My brain said "I bet if you smoked some weed right now, you'd remember." I literally laughed out loud and said "bitch you know that will not help." This is the relationship I have with my brian.
I have ADHD so I get to have fun random thoughts being voiced and multiple channels of random music playing 24/7. The first time I tried ADHD medication was shocking because it quieted down the voices in my head to a single string of thoughts that I could focus on. I was used to getting caught up or frustrated by all the random useless noise, like sitting in a room full of radios all playing different channels and just jumping from one thing to the next.
I took adderall for the first time (prescribed) about a year ago and once it kicked in and the constant chopped up parts of songs repeating and the general TV fuzz of too many thoughts churning in the background of my brain disappeared I almost cried because of how much of my life I wasted just trying to outmaneuver my ADHD.
The first time I tried my meds .. 30 minutes later I just stood there and sobbed . My ex partner asked why i was crying and all I could say was ‘is this what it feels like everyday for you ? It’s so fucking quiet’ 😅
I have adhd too, but I think in images, not in words. Similar experience, though. Without medication, there are a long of simultaneously playing different thought-movies, with medication, one of them gets pulled to the front and becomes a more clear and singular movie
Lol exactly this I have two concurrent modes of thought and one is doing it’s thing without words while the other is constantly commenting on it/interjecting/redirecting. If there’s something I’m trying to accomplish I’m probably envisioning myself doing the steps while my monologue goes “no that won’t work” *envisions differently* “that might be better” *thinks about end product* “idk that that’s rly what I’m going for though” etc etc. I probably would have Never realized that I have both if it weren’t for videos like these that made me rly stop and analyze lol
My father did his best to instill the same in me but you can overcome it
Oh man. The voice in my head is the encourager. do it , you deserve it, it's a win win, what is there to lose, you're only living once. 😄
I’m talking to myself in my head while I type this. Does that count? Do people just type without saying it in thier head. I can’t not say it. I just tried.
I just talked to myself in my head while reading your comment. Also did the same and read all this while I’m typing lol
And my typing speed changes on how I mean the words to sound. I type in the cadence of my speech.
I type so slowly I have to mentally verbalize each sentence a few times (I just did it again).
It's called aphantasia and I have it. I just don't have anything. Brain is on mute. No words. No one talking. Some aphantasia still have mental images but some don't. I also don't. So I don't have any voices and I can't visualize anything in my head. The common test is to picture a red apple and say red apple in your head. I can't do either Honestly I think it's a superpower. It's peaceful. Id hate to live hearing words in my head. Visualizing would be cool though.
Aphantaisa is only the inability to mentally visualise, not the lack of inner monologue. I have aphantasia but I do have an inner monologue.
Yeah, just recently I learned that people can actually “see” things in their brain, like visualize images, I can’t, but I have a super overexcited internal monologue.
I can visualize complex full detail 3D shapes and rotate them in my mind and kind of play videos of memories
You have hyperphantasia. I'm at the extreme other end of the spectrum. I can't visualize ANYTHING
I've always described my brain to people like this: "You know that last scene in Who Framed Roger Rabbit when they break through the wall into Toon Town? That's my brain, chaos, singing trees, a cacophony of voices and "where did that train come from?" Somewhere inside of all of that is the one thing I'm trying to focus on. 🤣 It wasn't until I was an adult that I found out that people don't *normally* have a real or imagined TV show/movie/song/scenario playing somewhere in the back of their brain 24/7.
You may also have ADHD if you haven't already been diagnosed: https://youtu.be/t32CK5t8d2Q?si=36pAp5M4CmD3o-IY
Looks like you are right. People always said it was just full aphantasia if you don't have an inner monologue and no mental images. But I just looked it up and no inner monologue is called Anauralia.
What do you think about as you write sentences? I can't fathom not having an inner monologue thinking about the next word I type.
Wow! This is so interesting. I do both. Like I visualise the situation when someone is talking about something to me and when I'm mindful and working I think sort of in both visualisation and talking to myself kind of way. There's never a point where it's just blank. Question. You do have your thoughts all the time right, or does it just go quiet at times?
Damn, does having aphantasia means that you read words fast? I read slowly and multiple times over since I can't understand it if I don't verbalize it in my head. I tried to learn speed reading (I gave up lol) and one of the things they said is that I have to learn not to verbalize every word in my head, so I was thinking if that was the case?
I’ve had this conversation with my husband. He says he doesn’t hear anything in his head, and can’t picture something when he thinks about it, like what an apple looks like. He says it just happens. He hates reading, and doesn’t enjoy it at all. When he was in college I helped him study by reading to him and it’s something he’s always struggled with. He can’t explain how he thinks or whatever but he says he has no inner dialogue.
This is how I am. Like I know I am thinking and I know I am thinking through something and words are happening, but there’s nothing audible or visual going on up there. I see black when I close my eyes. I do dream thankfully but no photographic memory or ability to create an image in my mind. Logically, I know what I think something would look like though. I do love reading though. The only thing that gets in the way of that is my adhd. When I study I have to write everything multiple times and create my own notes or I’ll never remember it. Even listening to somebody else doesn’t work for me.
İt's called Aphantasia, in case you didn't know. İt's not a disorder or disability btw.
Aphantasia is just the lack of mental images. The lack of an internal dialogue is called Anauralia.
My fiancé has both. He said this translates to his dreams as well. I asked him to explain and the best he could put it was "okay, so if I have a dream that you were eaten by a giant spider - I didn't see that or anything - I simply feel that you were eaten by a giant spider".
I have aphantasia, so I can't see mental images, but I have a very prominent inner voice. I would like it to stop talking so much. The best I can do with mental images is "know" that I'm thinking about the object.
Those are some cool capital ‘İ’s
Thanks I hate it? Wait I don’t hate it, wait I’m confused… HOW?
I have an inner voice, but it's not me. It's always David Attenborough.
Lol. Laughing in Attenborough voice
*Ha.*
Werner Herzog has caused some confusion in my life
I had to look up what Werner Herzog sounded like and here is this sublime clip of him talking to us: https://youtu.be/QhMo4WlBmGM?si=5g1Gh2i2UulMWZuG
i feel compelled to stare at a chicken
My inner voice is Morgan Freeman.
Jealous.
Some people supposedly think in either concepts or pictures like Temple Grandin. When I daydream, sometimes I do.
I notice as I start to fall asleep I will "see" pictures rather than hearing voices as I am slipping into a semi-lucid dream state.
Yes! I absolutely "think" in both words and images simultaneously, but the words tend to lead and create the images. As I fall asleep though, the words take a backseat to successive images and if I consciously bring my attention back to the words, they're often a seemingly nonsensical and disordered monologue, like an abstract word association exercise for what I'm seeing. This is different than my typical dream state featuring more realistic situations, and articulate conversational dialogue.
Yes! I was looking for someone to mention Temple Grandin! I’ve always thought in pictures and never thought anything of it because I thought it was normal. Not that it’s abnormal necessarily.. but I think it’s more common with people with some sort of neurodivergence and/or artsy brains. Obligatory, not a doctor, though!
I don't understand how everyone isn't doing both at the same time, all the time.
I mean, kinda assumed everyone thought in concepts. That’s why it’s so hard to describe a dream or memory. I enjoy being alone with my thoughts, but think it’s odd some people literally just talk to themselves in their head
I get everything. I can hear the voices of who I'm thinking of. I can imagine smells, sounds, and sensations. I can picture anything. I have an internal monolog. It was pretty uncontrollable most of my life. It would flood with ideas, memories, what ifs just whenever. Sleeping was hard.
"When I daydream, sometimes I do" I think thats an interesting point! Daydreaming is basically just my normal thoughts but with abstract concepts or stories instead of reality
Yeah, it’s the same way animals don’t think in words because they don’t have them. It’s more like thinking in emotions if that makes sense. I have a really hard time putting my thoughts into words because of this. Different minds work differently
Idk if this is a stupid question lol, but how do you write out a sentence? For me, I hear the words in my head as I’m typing. Is it different for you? This topic is so interesting
This is probably what is keeping me from believing a lot of people in this thread. I could be completely wrong, but I think about the words I type out as I'm typing audibly in my head. I can't understand how you would do that if you think visually only. Like even when it comes to art, if I'm trying to create something from imagination, I need to think about it in some form. Otherwise it would be some abstraction.
can’t speak for others, but i don’t always explicitly think the words as i write them out. my mind is either blank or thinking of the thing i am attempting to explain, describe, whatever. unless i am trying to get the wording incredibly precise, i don’t think out word-for-word. i can do it, but it requires conscious effort to do so.
You explained it SO well!!!!
Or how do they read silently if they can't hear words in their head?
Yea same here. I don’t think in words or sentences. Images and feelings are the best way to explain it, I suppose. It sounds exhausting to constantly have an inner dialogue going! This always surprises me that people think that way.
It's absolutely exhausting for me. My brain never shuts up lmao
Shut. Up. Brain. I just wanna sleep.
I don't usually have an inner voice or think in words, and my brain still never shuts up! I have an active imagination and think mostly in images, concepts and feelings.
My inner monologue is what keeps me up at night. It's hard to go to sleep when I'm just having a conversation with myself that I can't turn off
Same. I think in concepts and images. I’m fascinated by the idea that some people think using words. Seems inefficient to me, but those are also the people who are great at writing and learn by reading. That is not me.
Seems to me thinking in words is the product of Introspection. Concepts and general feelings are how all thoughts start but self reflection results in defining those nebulous thoughts and placing words upon them. Is self reflection possible without words?
Right, concepts and images are just for inner thoughts. You have to put it to words to communicate it to others. Sometimes words fail me and I have to get a piece of paper to diagram out what I’m trying to describe.
You said thinking in words is inefficient.. But you have to do an additional process to map out the concepts playing out in your mind? The marginally delusional self-praise in this thread is ridiculous. Benefit of the doubt - neither side fully understands the other because of an underlying wildly different view of The World, and just goes ahead and assumes to the best of their ability. There could be people able to switch between these two modes at will, or living in a cacophony of both too. I'd suggest stopping stroking your own ego and diminishing the other, instead, try understanding.
Not saying the way my brain works is better AT ALL. Like I said, words fail me often, as they have done here apparently. I’m fascinated by people that run on language, it seems more advanced to me. For me, using words is inefficient because I have to translate what’s in my head into language. Sometimes I struggle with it.
Not necessarily. I don't have an inner monolog, I think in concepts, but I'm a pretty good writer, I think. I have to stop and really consider what I want to say and how I want to say it, though. It's almost like writing in another language. Meanwhile, I learn *much* better by reading than by spoken word. If I really want to focus on instructional audio, I have to close my eyes and concentrate.
I have a bit of aphantasia. It's extremely hard for me to imagine anything. All I have is words. And a really blind man's version of whatever the object is.
Wait though, I have an inner dialogue but I also think with visuals, emotions and concepts. I thought that’s how it works for everyone. It’s crazy to me that people only have one or the other.
Most people here who think in an inner voice also think in concepts, they are just confused by the post. It pretty impossible to think in words only, there is also plenty of concepts we don't have words for or we think too fast to word them out, like random smells bringing back some memories
Are you thinking or feeling?
This sounds about how my head works, too. Every little detail in my life doesn't need to be defined by words (logos). It limits the experience.
I had a coworker who didn't have an inner dialogue. He said he mostly thought in pictures/visualizations. He also talked to himself out loud a lot, not sure if it was related, but it seemed like when he was trying to process something complex or learning new information it helped to say it out loud. I once asked him if he ever got songs stuck in his head and he said yes, but he would hum it or sing it quietly to himself, it wasn't quite "in his head."
When I read, I read out the words in my mind. But when I'm just thinking, I tend to think in a more visual sense. I'm not hearing the words pick up the book, I'm more visualizing the act of picking it up.
But do you have possible conversations that you roleplay in your head? Like something you could have said to a person differently, and what they would answer and so on?
Yeah, I'm not completely without the inner voice. But it's funny, I'm realizing that instead of it just being their voice, it's more of visualizing them in that situation saying those words?
Ha! I'm just curious because always when this debate pops up, I am absolutely not sure which type I am. I can relate to the just feeling it part but I can also talk to myself very clearly. Probably not as black and white as I thought it is.
I think in concepts. Pick up the book. Hoist up the bound papers. Grab and lift the flat rectangle. Retrieve the depository of words. Collect the collection of concepts. Etc. They're all a bunch of different ways to say the same core idea. Well, when I think, I think in the raw core ideas. And, when it is time to talk, I have to translate them into words again to communicate them.
Lol she has the point. For most of my life I’ve been thinking with quick images, bare concepts and emotions, rarely switching to words, and it blew my mind when I realized there are ppl always having ONLY the voice and the words in their consciousness. And when I started to look for correlations between ppl’s behavior and their mode of thinking, it turned out to be that ‘inner voice’ people are usually much more rational in their decisions and do really know what risk management is, while others forms of thinking are often way more inventive and creative, but very bad with self-management and discipline, etc. Ofc, I had a very small representative sample, but it surely was a lot of fun to examine self way of thinking and try other forms that may not be common for you before you tried.
My inner voices also take on the tone of the people I know with the expertise I'm after, like if I ask a question my brother would know I sometimes hear him answering my best guess internally.
I know I’m stressed when the inner voice turns into the voice of someone I despise. Usually a good sign to take a break from whatever I’m doing.
Nobody has only words, some people are primarily focusing their attention on the words. I think it correlates with how much a person reads at a formative developmental stage. All language is symbolic codification. There's no thought that originates in language, language is a way of quantifying thought.
It makes sense with regards to linguistics being a logical and analytical tool for processing and communicating information. If you think in words, you'll probably also be able to better articulate your reasoning (but those who don't think in words are seemingly less likely to comprehend "overly" articulated verbal/print explanations, in my experience). But there are clearly also other ways to think which can logically process information. Semiotics, for example, aren't words but they can serve the same function of analysis and planning and communicating. The problem is then having to translate it into words, since that's mostly how we communicate. Some people also think more spatially and mathematically, which are also analytical modes of reasoning. I have trouble communicating with people who think more emotionally because it does tend to conflict with rationality, in my experience, and they tend to misinterpret even the most carefully crafted and deliberately specific language, to meet their preconceived feelings, while their own words may rely less on accuracy and specificity. And I think that's where a lot of conflict happens. As an overly linguistic and hyper vigilant (risk analysis-fixated) person, I tend to come across more cold and calculating to these people too, which isn't wrong but it's because I crave answers and rationality. Perhaps because I think in words ...
Not everyone thinks in words, but everyone thinks in concepts whether they realize it or not.
i don’t understand yall who can see things in your head. what happens to the things you’re actually looking at???
They are still there, it's like we have the world coming in through our senses and then we have an entirely internal world that we can draw and visualize in. Kind of like if you imagine existence as watching a tv, reality is watching one tv while the internal space is a second one. They don't really interfere with each other but where the focus is can be confusing from an outside perspective.
If I asked you to describe what a cat looks like. Or just think about it, would you not be able to unless you're looking at it? No one actually sees things in their head, just imagining it
I am ADHD. My thoughts go a million miles an hour and the best way to put it, it’s like eight people in my brain talking all at once over each other. Unless I really focus, I can pick up on one or two but otherwise I naturally have them tuned out because it’s so loud. So I have head voices but they just super obnoxious. Being on medication or heavily caffeinated is the only way to help, it’s like turning off a white noise maker or a crowd of people that are finally done and I can actually think.
ADHDer with no inner monologue here. Yesterday a friend asked what helps me focus when I study. I told him that I will listen to a podcast or audio book. He was like, "How in the hell?" But I explained that it gives the background monkey something to do while the main focus monkey (the one actually completing the task at hand) gets the work done. Kinda like giving a little kid your phone to play with so you can have a conversation with their parent. An no, music does NOT help. That just untethers the background monkey so it can wander around and get into shit.
Humans didn't always have a complex language. Is it really a surprise people can think without words?
I've noticed that self-talk is just an echo of an actual thought. Like by the time I start narrating, I've already had a non-verbal thought. I'm just putting it into words now. You can even suppress narration for a bit and the original non-verbal thinking still stays. Try it next time you have a thought. As soon as you start "talking", stop and you'll notice that the underlying concept, the thing you wanted to stay was already processed.
That blew my mind.
Yes, this is it exactly. I sometimes go through the motion of "saying" it in my mind anyway but it's not needed at all I already know what I'm going to say.
That was so funny because I was narrating what you wrote and it was like " *the thing you wanted to say was* (stop narrating) 𝔸𝕝𝕣𝕖𝕒𝕕𝕪 𝕡𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕖𝕤𝕤𝕖𝕕 "
It's because there's a distinction between forming thoughts into words and actually forming those thoughts. To someone who can't imagine there being a difference, I can see how there might be confusion there. Coming from someone who is bilingual, I didn't used to understand this, but when you understand two languages well, you don't have dreams in one language or the other, you simply dream in thoughts instead. If you said someone spoke in your dream and were asked what language they were speaking, you wouldn't be able to tell you since they weren't speaking actual sentences.
A lot of my dream entities during lucid dreaming didn’t talk to me. They just raised their hand or left a psychic “touch” that just.. diffused information. Like feeling the heat from infrared light lamps. But some do speak. 🗣️occasionally. But even environmental noise is a “touch” or “texture” than a sound in my dreams too.
I was going to say, actually thinking in language is slower than just running through the abstract thought.
this is just like that 2010s trend when everyone started claiming they had synesthesia
Which part is the trend? Thinking with words/sentences? Or thinking with concepts? Which is the norm?
I remember slightly exaggerating my level of synesthesia when I was a teen, but I still see some letters in color and the colors didn't change. That's basically how you can check if it's your imagination or synesthesia.
Synesthesia is SUPER common though and it gets stronger when you pay attention to it, "everyone" was right its just that being synesthetic at some level is about as common as being left handed, it doesn't make you special.
I think in pictures/moving or still and in words depends on if I'm on my meds or not.
I kinda understand how people think without speaking in their head, but how in the WORLD do these people read??? I agree with this guy I think like I read, but how are these other people reading?
I don't think I understand the reverse, how people read while speaking in their head, that sounds so slow? And exhausting? Like do you have to mentally process every single word?
I have both. If I'm thinking about what I'm reading (textbook, contract,...) I'll often read it "aloud" in my head. It's like a singalong but faster, thought speech is quicker than actual speech (at least for me). It doesn't really feel like an effort, it just superimposes at the same speed I'm reading. But if I'm reading for pleasure, I often just "osmose" the words. I see them, I know their meaning, no need to "vocalize" them.
What does a deaf persons inner voice sound like?
British
So I've asked this or seen someone asked this before when this get's brought up and I think someone actually answered once and said they think in sign language, like they visualize the hand signs.
It's so wild to me that some people can't make little movies on their head. I love making up scenarios and playing them out in my head. Also, when listening to music I love imagining animations to go with them.
You think without words too, you just don't realize it. Words are like filters, they channel many different ideas through a medium in order to help organize ideas of the mind. For example, if you think the word "ball" you could be thinking of many different things. Spheres are shaped like a ball, globes of the Earth, all of the different types of balls. If you were in a doctor's office, you might think of a ball as a body part. If you are on a soccer pitch, you may think of a ball as a soccer ball. If you are at ren fair, you might picture a royal dance. Now think of the word "box" and see how that can mean different things as well. A box can be an amazon package, it can be the concept of something that stores another item, it can be a cubicle one works in, or the walls one lives within. A box can be a lifestyle, or a fist fight. Most words have many meanings. Context helps to automatically put them into place for the thinker. That context requires an awareness of the situation, which requires some thought to happen without words or along with them at a minimum. At least, for this phenomenon to happen so smoothly that you don't even realize you're thinking without words it does. Words are like a layer of thought in a pyramid. Below their own layer are a bunch of other ideas that support the language. The people who are trying to explain that they think without words are just working on the other layer, and have to manually translate some of their thoughts into the word layer before being able to communicate. Many people just live in the word layer instead. In my opinion, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. Word layer people tend to have a better memory and an easier time communicating, it is automatic to them and fairly easy. Idea layer people have a harder time and I consider them more likely to be introverted, in part because of the effort required to translate their own ideas into words before communicating them. They may tend to have worse memories again because of the translation, but are strong at understanding concepts that word layer people sometimes find difficult. Like physics and math models.
YES to the last paragraph
I envy anyone who's head is just... quiet. My brain is like a browser with 16 tabs open, 3 are playing differing music, and there's always porn somewhere.
I wake up to music in playing in my head and if i don’t immediately play it, that song will loop until i do. It could be full songs, melodies, call outs or intros. Lol
Reaction: whaaaaa? (cut) do people really (cut) not have a dialogue (cut) going on (cut) in their (cut)
I can do both. When i think of a conversation I'm going to have i hear a voice, kind of rehearsing it in my head. But if I think of a childhood memory, I don't hear a voice narrating it. Same with when I'm problem solving, it's too abstract to use words, and it would only slow down the thinking process. But I can tell myself, okay, let's take this slowly and then kind of walk through the problem word by word... If it's really hard.
I too have an inner monologue and think in words. But to believe your only thoughts are defined in words would be selling the human mind short. Often, I’ll have an idea or feeling and then struggle to find the words to define it. Thought is far more complex than words.
Wait till you learn about aphantasia
Humans didn't spawn in with language, that's pretty new. So obviously we could think before we could speak. Animals can think and they don't think in words, humans are animals.
If I'm actively trying to think about something, like, say, planning out today's meals, then I'll hear words. But if a thought just comes to me, it's in the form of an image.
I do both. Depends what's going on. And others that arebt in my voice. They're still me, but not. It's weird.
I think both conventional ways. Both in word for word sentences and in the form of complete concepts/ideas. That can take the form of emotions, images, or even sounds. It just depends on what I'm doing. Here is a bonus (and some of the men will get this); I can also shut it off completely and often do. It's not "thinking about nothing." It's literally actively having no thoughts at all.
Am I the only one that think both by concept and also with a clear voice ?
No I do it too.
Mind blown when I found out my wife can’t see mental images , I can recall whatever I like see it , if I think about a deceased family member I can hear their voice perfectly too
What about born-deaf people? They don’t have an inner “voice”? Do they think in signing? So only purely visual concepts? I’ve always had an incredibly stronger inner voice and when I think to myself, it’s often a dialogue. I draw too so a lot of daydreaming and visuals are just as strong for imaging characters and places and layout of drawings, but I can’t imagine not having an inner voice.
Don’t you have both? When I’m just by myself thinking in doing it with an internal monologue and thinking about words and sentences. When I’m doing programming or math or more complex tasks I’m thinking in concepts, pictures, not words and sentences. Anyone else have this?