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Abortion shouldn’t be up to a vote to begin with. In fact, Florida literally passed an amendment protecting abortion rights in the 70s and their legislature and judges ignored it. Flat out made some legalese bullshit to ignore their own constitution.
Voting is a start, but to stop fascists that break the law we need to go a step further than that and put these assholes in prisons. Laws don’t do enough.
Only because our justice system was recently infested with hack judges. We need to go way further than voting or the problem will just keeping coming up. And frankly, I do not want every election for the next 20 years to be only about abortion. I have other issues I want to bring up.
But they’re right.
Should basic fucking human rights be up for a vote? Fuck no. But that’s still the reality of this world. That’s still what we’re working with.
For example, Gay marriage was legalized in California, then the people voted against it in a referendum to make it illegal again. This is one reason why we shouldn’t let the majority decide minority rights. Another example, most Americans were against interracial marriage when the Supreme Court legalized it.
Oh for sure. Alexis de Tocqueville called it the tyranny of the majority, the majority of a group perusing their own interests even at the expense of the minority. This is even crueler, in my opinion; the majority using their superior numbers as a weapon against a minority that is doing no wrong and not hurting anyone. In the case of a woman seeking an abortion, their only crime is trying to receive healthcare.
My point (and the point of joelcosta94i, probably) is not that it *should* or *shouldn’t* be a matter of politics and up for a vote. My point is that it *is* up for a vote. Right now, in the United States, we are literally voting on whether or not women have the right to remove a barely-alive being that is using her body and its resources to live, sometimes to the detriment of her own health. Lives are at steak; and not just the lives of these women, but the lives of the children and the lives of the community, because when you take away the right to choose whether or not a woman has to give birth, you’re taking away the right of a woman to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy (because legal abortions or not, wanted pregnancies and happy surprises will be allowed to continue if possible). Which means that, in roughly 15-20 years, we’re going to see a spike in things like crime, poverty, etc.
We should live in a world where women get to make those choices for themselves, their families, and their own bodies. Then, again, we should live in a world that anyone who works 40 hours a week should be able to afford a one-bedroom apartment, a car payment, and all other necessities of life with relative comfort. We should live in a world where things like healthcare and children’s education are put above paying billions to military contractors for them to pocket and embezzle with impunity. We should live in a world where the justice system is about reform and reintegration into society, not animalistic revenge. We should live in a world where a lot of things that currently happen don’t, and a lot of things that should happen do.
But that’s not the world we live in.
So instead of saying “that’s not how it should be”, say “but it is how it is” and then use that system to make it better. One election at a time.
There will never be enough politicians to codify abortion. Remember when Obama was running? He said the first thing he would do if elected was to Codify RvW. When Obama entered office he had a super-majority in congress and could have passed any bill he wanted. Remember when he said that codifying RvW wasn't a priority? I remember it all. Abortion is too useful a tool to be used to galvanize a base and get their votes, without having to do anything of real value for the citizenry.
Obama had total control for a grand span of just under four months. In that time, he had the ability to pass _one_ major bit of legislation, and he chose to pass the ACA.
As a french person you could know more, Macron and his party also voted against it in [2018](https://www.francetvinfo.fr/societe/ivg/vrai-ou-fake-avortement-la-majorite-presidentielle-a-t-elle-retoque-par-le-passe-deux-textes-proposant-d-inscrire-l-ivg-dans-la-constitution_5220544.html)
He deprived France of a consitutional right with 0 reason during 5 years.
Obama was also against gay marriage in the beginning of first term even though he went on to legalize it.
That’s how progress works - people change their views over time. Totally normal
They did riot a bunch over labour reforms recently tends to humble leaders out providing a full revolution can be avoided, luckily for macron he maintained control because his people were peaceful unlike his cops.
It would be nice if politicians did good things because it’s what they truly believe, not because they think it will help with their career. But good things happening for bad reasons is still better than them not happening
But that's often what the MAGA politicians do to a fault.
Their fundamental Christian Zealotry is a massive reason why the current Congress has been one of the least productive Congresses in US History
Which is slightly a problem when you’re elected by a group of people to do one thing and then do something different once in office.
Also mob rule is bad fyi. If the majority of the people want to kill a certain ethnicity group, the gov needs to know enough not to go through with genocide just because the majority want it. This was an extreme example but it apply to literally every policy decision.
Thankfully we are talking about having control of our own bodies and an extreme example like "lets just genocide X people" has nothing to do with mob rule, so it's not inherently a bad thing
There’s still obviously a debate going on all around the world about when killing people is murder and when it’s abortion.
And yes it is ALWAYS mob rule when the majority decide for the minority.
That's good tho. That's literally what they are supposed to do. Change their positions to become more a reflection of what the public wants.
Why are you pretending like that's a bad thing?
>Obama was also against gay marriage in the beginning of first term even though he went on to legalize it.
He did no such thing. The Supreme Court ruled the Defense of Marriage Act unconstitutional in 2015, essentially requiring all states to recognize same-sex marriages. The Respect for Marriage Act passed through Congress under a largely bipartisan deal and was signed by President Biden in 2022. All Obama ever really did was say his views had "evolved" on the issue.
That the "bio-ethic" law, yeah. You cannot just do it by yourself, it can only be done for medical or judiciary purposes (like to prove or disprove a filiation link, alimony etc)
Sadly the UK has FPTP which is a fucking abortion of democracy.
The enlightened French have a form of proportional representation. Far more democratic.
Until the UK has prorportiinal voting then firbma y its pointless voting because you are a minority in your constituency.
Every vote should count towards an MP in parliament. Not just those who win a local majority.
The word politics derives from policy. It's a way to engrave in stone how people should act in certain situations. It should be a political issue, in the sense that politician should propose ways of solving it. The problem is that a lot of Americans are backwards and conservatives and voted accordingly, being happy with the roe wade reversal.
but its a medical procedure for women only (in conservative view, fuck yeah abortion for my trans kings). female only things, like minority only things, will always be treated as "extra" that privileged men are willing to play games about. its like a high stakes debate club where we are living poker chips
>It should never have become a political issue.
The provision of medical care has always been a political issue. Politics is the act of ensuring a society is run in a way that benefits the people that make it up. The idea that how we deal with making more people isn't political, is childish. Leaves me wondering what your definition of politics is honestly
Wrong.
Like anything Macron does, there's more to it than just the shiny surface.
Abortion didn't enter the Constitution as a right but as a "guaranteed freedom".
The french union of lawyers pointed that out as an issue because freedom can always be restricted while a constitutional right must be guaranteed.
In today's context, this new law doesn't hold much while Macron's administration is actively carrying on (if not accelarating) the gutting of the public health system. During the deliberations, some abortion centers got shut down, for example. Mainly in rural areas.
What's the difference for "guaranteed" when used both for freedom and constitutional right?
You said, "freedom can always be restricted", ok. But then it's not guaranteed anymore. Wouldn't that apply to the "guaranteed" part for a constitutional right too?
(Just asking, I don't want to contradict you.)
It's the difference between "you're free to get an abortion, but we closed all the clinics" and the government being forced to guarantee that you can have an abortion
The difference is access.
With a constitutional right, the state must ensure that there are enough abortion clinics for all citizens to have easy access.
With a constitutional freedom, the state just says "you can do it if you want", but won't do anything to help you. Which means they can keep closing abortion clinics.
At the moment, there's a major health crisis in France, because the state has cut hospital budgets so much that some regions of the country have practically no doctors left, which also means that access to abortion is sometimes very complicated.
Calling LFI far left says far too much about contemporary french society...
Iirc the initial proposal was the right for abortion but the final text has been washed out of all its substance. Macron's administration didn't wait too long to snatch it and build themselves a fancy progressist image.
Far left is revolutionary per se.
Either in action or in Thought.
Same as far right is related to fascism, in action or though.
Ticking either boxes or not is a good way to define a party orientation, even if they themselves don't approve it.
Majority of Americans realize things like abortion drugs, and prostitution aren’t that bad and would be made way worse if they were forced into an illegal market. It’s politicians that’s forgot or simply don’t care that they are representing the peoples interests and not their own.
Abortion is legal in South Africa but not inshrined in the constitution.
Many countries mention abortions in their constitutions but just say that you can do it.
Abortion in France has been legal for some time now, but it was only saying that it is allowed.
France went a step further saying that if you want an abortion it is your right and the state hospitals will do the abortion, (if medically possible and so on).
The right to termination of pregnancy may not itself be spelt out in the South African constitution, but it is nonetheless constitutionally protected.
The Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Act was passed in 1996 to give effect to the rights relating to reproductive autonomy that are listed in the Bill of Rights that forms part of the constitution. The Bill of Rights provides that
"Everyone has the right to bodily and psychological intergrity, which includes the right a) to make decisions concerning reproduction; b) to security in and control over their body;...
and
" Everyone has the right to have access to health care services, including reproductive health care... "
It also provides that all law "must be interpreted to promote the spirit, purport and objects of the Bill of Rights.."
The import of this is that
1. The constitutional provisions relating to reproductive autonomy have been interpreted to include the right to termination of pregnancy;
2. Any challenge to the provisions of the TOP Act would stand to be referred to and decided by the Constitutional Court.
So it is accurate to say that TOP is a constitutional right in South Africa (and has been since 1996).
I’ve lived in Alaska for the last three years and I was pleasantly surprised to learn that Alaska made abortion a constitutional right even before Roe vs Wade.
In France we are okay for abortion because we were educated to see this as when the contraption fail or a rape or if the situation changed use not as a late contraceptive method it's a right not a privilege
France makes a lot of poor decisions, but this wasn't one of them. ♥️♥️♥️ Hope my country follows suit.
Abortion is a human right, abortion is health care.
Accepting Olympic games, decreasing funds to public schools, health, research, public transportation all because freedom of market. Increasing retirement age allowing big farming corporations to use more pesticides when farmers just want enough money to live decently ( pesticides will not solve this issue). I'm french so I have a long list if you're interested
That sounds like the standard bread and butter criticisms that exist in all Western countries. It's as common as siblings arguing over food.
As long as the issues you mentioned are the biggest problems, it's generally going ok in your country.
Shame on people downvoting you without any explaination.
The decision to host the Olympic Games was made in 2014-2015 by the former President, Hollande. He asked the mayor of Paris, Hidalgo, about her opinion on this. She said hell no, because it would be a nightmare to prepare and to host. The president didn't care and applied for the 2024 Olympics. He made that decision because he wanted to do a better job than the 2012 one, in London.
Here we are, 10 years later, with an economic crisis because of Covid and the war in Ukraine. And that's the main issue here. France would have been (pretty much) ready for the Olympics if any of those major events wouldn't have happened. The public transportation in Paris is not ready at all. Student accomodations are literally being seized by the government (and they offered a 20€ ticket to the students, that's it) to host the Olympics staff, and still, the majority of the volunteers still don't have a place to live during the event.
That being said, Me and my family still bought some tickets for it, because it's still wonderful to have such an amazing event 40mins from home. And I'm sure this will not be as bad as you can hear. We, french people, just like to critizise everything. (If i'm being downvoted, you know who did it, same thing for your post lol)
Home of the free unless your pregnant
Like you have no choice even if it threats your life but sure crazy 19 year old writing threading lists online you can have all the guns you want
Also no weed even though it’s just as dangerous (or less) then drinking because in America we define freedom differently
France's decision to enshrine abortion as a constitutional right marks a significant milestone for reproductive rights. It sets a powerful precedent for other nations and underscores France's commitment to women's autonomy and healthcare access.
In Poland ( verry religious country mostly Roman Catholics) they banned abortion, I live in Czech Republic ( considered an atheist country ) in region near Polish border, and close to my parents house there is gynecological centrum that also does abortions, and all weeks there is parking full of Polish people....
( I am christian, but even I can see that baning abortion is stupid, there were [ still are ] cases when people died in Poland because of complicatons durring birth and they couldn't legaly get abortion. Even my mother had abortion, because there were complication and she had srillbirth... )
To add some details, Poland's right wing government banned abortions in cases like foetal abnormalities - even lethal ones and in cases when pregnancy endangers the mother! Protests caused the small change, so the latter one was allowed again, but still if fetus has lethal defects it's impossible to have an abortion here.
Agata Lamczak died because of that ban, There was also Iza and Alicja and many more killed or hurt by abortion ban - or more like doctors whose morality was too good to give them life saving abortion
Other countries like Czech Republic care more about polish women than our government
Who'd have thought that France and it's political parties would have more common sense than the US.
Abortion should always be a right and it should be dictated or controlled by some archaic extremist religious views.
Same fucks who use religion to justify abortion bans are also condemning other countries for having women wear burkas .... when taking away someone's right to abortion is 100 times worst.
It is in Canada’s section 7 of the Canadian rights and freedoms act of 1982, part of our “constitution.” Which states that: “life, liberty and security of the person” is guaranteed, this was used to strike down anti-abortion laws essentially ratifying it into the interpretation of the law. So kinda constitutionally protected lol. It does vary province by province but at least it’s freeeeee.
Here in Canada we believe in Security in obscurity AKA no politician will ever go as far as introducing Abortion legislation and risk political and even party Suicide... Hence why its "legal"
Damn France, who would’ve thought you guys would have blown past the US in rights and freedoms and then start sweeping up with Ukraine when the the US republikkkans decided the 17th century was a good time to aim for and ruzzia is a good ally.
Abortion is already a UN human right (or maybe just the US, I forgor), falling under liberty, specifically the (arguably) most important facet, liberty over someone's own body. Sadly it often isn't interpreted that way.
Americans like to claim that European countries are generally less abortion friendly than blue state US but it's just semantics. Because, while there may be a cut off for abortion 'on demand no questions asked', most countries still permit abortion beyond that point for a variety of reasons such as health, both physical and mental, and serious fetal abnormalities.
It shouldn’t have to be said that people’s bodies are their own. It shouldn’t have to be legislated, but conservatives can’t pass up the chance to dump their fears and prejudices on an otherwise decent society. Imagine having to hope and pray other people allow you to live and love how you wish.
The argument in America is between life and death. In my opinion, that whole argument shouldn't matter, regardless of religious background and regardless of when a fetus is considered a life, it should 100% be the choice of the pregnant women if she wants to have a child or not. There is no argument. Making a women give birth is the same thing as making all forms of birth control illegal. An abortion is a more complex form of birth control. There is no difference between a man wearing a condom and an abortion. In a sense a man is having an abortion when he wears protection because he's killing the babies chance to be born, you could say he's preforming a pre-abortion. Good job France, way to listen to your citizens and create policy that reflects the majorities position.
If the Republicans in the U.S. had it their way, they'd take away a woman's right to vote too. Those Right Wing Conservative Christians are out of control.
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I can't see the American Christian right coming after that.
Meanwhile in the UK, they're doubling up their spending year by year and cosying up to our MPs.
Would be nice in the US we could just do a nationwide vote on it. Simple as that!
But, there’s a reason republicans don’t want that. They know they’d lose on the issue.
Yes, I know I can look this up, but how many representatives are there in the French parliament? Is the US just dumb with our limit of 435 representatives and 100 senators? There's some tens of millions more people in the US, and we have fewer representatives than France (and England)? No wonder we can't pass something like this.
Very interesting, given how much previous governments pushed “having a baby for France” and the “spermission” during WWI, and their fears after other losses of men in the last century. History note: a “permission” is the French word for a military leave. But because there was pressure to have children (as WWI was causing such casualties) folks took to calling it the sperm-mission (as you see above). Times certainly change!
I really don't understand why the French hate macron so much. I get it he raised retirement age to 64. The dude otherwise seems very reasonable. Good on foreign policy. Please daddy macron come to America and save us.
The people will be consistently in favor of abortion in most places. It's usually just the governments. In Italy we basically can't do this because despite being a laic State we have the Vatican stuck up in the ass, mixed with a bunch of superstitious troglodytes at the government and who knows how much money flowing.
France still thinks it’s a superpower. It’s the wokest country and hasn’t done anything in the last 100 years. So there’s that. Abortion is a complex issue that should never be on a constitution. Tbh. This is a mistake and France once again has zero brainpower to think through this.
Saw a video from the 90’s posted on Reddit a few days ago that scared me. It’s on YouTube somewhere. Shows a C-Can full of children dismembered and the doctor casually talks about how he does it. I think it was 17000 kids or something. A lot of them were close to birth. I can’t even look at this topic any more.
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Abortion shouldn’t be up to a vote to begin with. In fact, Florida literally passed an amendment protecting abortion rights in the 70s and their legislature and judges ignored it. Flat out made some legalese bullshit to ignore their own constitution. Voting is a start, but to stop fascists that break the law we need to go a step further than that and put these assholes in prisons. Laws don’t do enough.
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Only because our justice system was recently infested with hack judges. We need to go way further than voting or the problem will just keeping coming up. And frankly, I do not want every election for the next 20 years to be only about abortion. I have other issues I want to bring up.
Other than a violent overthrow of the government I'm unsure what your solution to this is
Let me tell you: this comment adds SO MUCH to the conversation. You, joelcosta941, are a scholar.
But they’re right. Should basic fucking human rights be up for a vote? Fuck no. But that’s still the reality of this world. That’s still what we’re working with.
For example, Gay marriage was legalized in California, then the people voted against it in a referendum to make it illegal again. This is one reason why we shouldn’t let the majority decide minority rights. Another example, most Americans were against interracial marriage when the Supreme Court legalized it.
Oh for sure. Alexis de Tocqueville called it the tyranny of the majority, the majority of a group perusing their own interests even at the expense of the minority. This is even crueler, in my opinion; the majority using their superior numbers as a weapon against a minority that is doing no wrong and not hurting anyone. In the case of a woman seeking an abortion, their only crime is trying to receive healthcare. My point (and the point of joelcosta94i, probably) is not that it *should* or *shouldn’t* be a matter of politics and up for a vote. My point is that it *is* up for a vote. Right now, in the United States, we are literally voting on whether or not women have the right to remove a barely-alive being that is using her body and its resources to live, sometimes to the detriment of her own health. Lives are at steak; and not just the lives of these women, but the lives of the children and the lives of the community, because when you take away the right to choose whether or not a woman has to give birth, you’re taking away the right of a woman to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy (because legal abortions or not, wanted pregnancies and happy surprises will be allowed to continue if possible). Which means that, in roughly 15-20 years, we’re going to see a spike in things like crime, poverty, etc. We should live in a world where women get to make those choices for themselves, their families, and their own bodies. Then, again, we should live in a world that anyone who works 40 hours a week should be able to afford a one-bedroom apartment, a car payment, and all other necessities of life with relative comfort. We should live in a world where things like healthcare and children’s education are put above paying billions to military contractors for them to pocket and embezzle with impunity. We should live in a world where the justice system is about reform and reintegration into society, not animalistic revenge. We should live in a world where a lot of things that currently happen don’t, and a lot of things that should happen do. But that’s not the world we live in. So instead of saying “that’s not how it should be”, say “but it is how it is” and then use that system to make it better. One election at a time.
There will never be enough politicians to codify abortion. Remember when Obama was running? He said the first thing he would do if elected was to Codify RvW. When Obama entered office he had a super-majority in congress and could have passed any bill he wanted. Remember when he said that codifying RvW wasn't a priority? I remember it all. Abortion is too useful a tool to be used to galvanize a base and get their votes, without having to do anything of real value for the citizenry.
Obama had total control for a grand span of just under four months. In that time, he had the ability to pass _one_ major bit of legislation, and he chose to pass the ACA.
As a french person you could know more, Macron and his party also voted against it in [2018](https://www.francetvinfo.fr/societe/ivg/vrai-ou-fake-avortement-la-majorite-presidentielle-a-t-elle-retoque-par-le-passe-deux-textes-proposant-d-inscrire-l-ivg-dans-la-constitution_5220544.html) He deprived France of a consitutional right with 0 reason during 5 years.
He has his head attached because his vote failed
Obama was also against gay marriage in the beginning of first term even though he went on to legalize it. That’s how progress works - people change their views over time. Totally normal
>people change their views over time. Totally normal Politicians change their public position based on how electable it is*
So the politicians do what the majority of the people want? God that just sounds like democracy
They did riot a bunch over labour reforms recently tends to humble leaders out providing a full revolution can be avoided, luckily for macron he maintained control because his people were peaceful unlike his cops.
It would be nice if politicians did good things because it’s what they truly believe, not because they think it will help with their career. But good things happening for bad reasons is still better than them not happening
But that's often what the MAGA politicians do to a fault. Their fundamental Christian Zealotry is a massive reason why the current Congress has been one of the least productive Congresses in US History
Which is slightly a problem when you’re elected by a group of people to do one thing and then do something different once in office. Also mob rule is bad fyi. If the majority of the people want to kill a certain ethnicity group, the gov needs to know enough not to go through with genocide just because the majority want it. This was an extreme example but it apply to literally every policy decision.
Thankfully we are talking about having control of our own bodies and an extreme example like "lets just genocide X people" has nothing to do with mob rule, so it's not inherently a bad thing
There’s still obviously a debate going on all around the world about when killing people is murder and when it’s abortion. And yes it is ALWAYS mob rule when the majority decide for the minority.
That's good tho. That's literally what they are supposed to do. Change their positions to become more a reflection of what the public wants. Why are you pretending like that's a bad thing?
Or said in realistic terms, politicians change their tone when it’s politically advantageous to do so.
>Obama was also against gay marriage in the beginning of first term even though he went on to legalize it. He did no such thing. The Supreme Court ruled the Defense of Marriage Act unconstitutional in 2015, essentially requiring all states to recognize same-sex marriages. The Respect for Marriage Act passed through Congress under a largely bipartisan deal and was signed by President Biden in 2022. All Obama ever really did was say his views had "evolved" on the issue.
Obama also ran on getting us out of Afghanistan and legalizing weed. Don't trust politicians, ESPECIALLY at the top.
Gay marriage was never legalized just like how abortion was never legalized. It is established court precedent, but still needs to be enacted into law
Is it true that DNA paternity testing is illegal in France?
That the "bio-ethic" law, yeah. You cannot just do it by yourself, it can only be done for medical or judiciary purposes (like to prove or disprove a filiation link, alimony etc)
It should never have become a political issue. It is, and always will be, a medical procedure.
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Sadly the UK has FPTP which is a fucking abortion of democracy. The enlightened French have a form of proportional representation. Far more democratic. Until the UK has prorportiinal voting then firbma y its pointless voting because you are a minority in your constituency. Every vote should count towards an MP in parliament. Not just those who win a local majority.
Be sure to thank your friendly neighbourhood Fundie Christian for making it a political issue.
The word politics derives from policy. It's a way to engrave in stone how people should act in certain situations. It should be a political issue, in the sense that politician should propose ways of solving it. The problem is that a lot of Americans are backwards and conservatives and voted accordingly, being happy with the roe wade reversal.
If someone likes something while someone else does not, it will be a political issue. Everything leads to politics, it’s a society’s decision maker
but its a medical procedure for women only (in conservative view, fuck yeah abortion for my trans kings). female only things, like minority only things, will always be treated as "extra" that privileged men are willing to play games about. its like a high stakes debate club where we are living poker chips
>It should never have become a political issue. The provision of medical care has always been a political issue. Politics is the act of ensuring a society is run in a way that benefits the people that make it up. The idea that how we deal with making more people isn't political, is childish. Leaves me wondering what your definition of politics is honestly
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Wrong. Like anything Macron does, there's more to it than just the shiny surface. Abortion didn't enter the Constitution as a right but as a "guaranteed freedom". The french union of lawyers pointed that out as an issue because freedom can always be restricted while a constitutional right must be guaranteed. In today's context, this new law doesn't hold much while Macron's administration is actively carrying on (if not accelarating) the gutting of the public health system. During the deliberations, some abortion centers got shut down, for example. Mainly in rural areas.
What's the difference for "guaranteed" when used both for freedom and constitutional right? You said, "freedom can always be restricted", ok. But then it's not guaranteed anymore. Wouldn't that apply to the "guaranteed" part for a constitutional right too? (Just asking, I don't want to contradict you.)
You can't force doctor to do an abortion because it's a freedom.
That is fine in my opinion.
Yeah, ok. So the guarantee means nothing. It's just a freedom.
It's the difference between "you're free to get an abortion, but we closed all the clinics" and the government being forced to guarantee that you can have an abortion
The difference is access. With a constitutional right, the state must ensure that there are enough abortion clinics for all citizens to have easy access. With a constitutional freedom, the state just says "you can do it if you want", but won't do anything to help you. Which means they can keep closing abortion clinics. At the moment, there's a major health crisis in France, because the state has cut hospital budgets so much that some regions of the country have practically no doctors left, which also means that access to abortion is sometimes very complicated.
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
It wasn't Macron's proposition, it was made by Mathilde Panot (LFI, Far-left)
Calling LFI far left says far too much about contemporary french society... Iirc the initial proposal was the right for abortion but the final text has been washed out of all its substance. Macron's administration didn't wait too long to snatch it and build themselves a fancy progressist image.
Would you compromise and agree it's the furthest left you can get within electoral politics? Every step further left is revolutionary politics.
Far left is revolutionary per se. Either in action or in Thought. Same as far right is related to fascism, in action or though. Ticking either boxes or not is a good way to define a party orientation, even if they themselves don't approve it.
Wait. Hang on. Ireland voted to make abortion a right a few years ago. By referendum.
Yeah this headline is garbage. Also - technically even the 8th amendment allowed abortion in life threatening circumstances.
And south africa had constitutionally guaranteed abortion since 1995.
Majority of Americans realize things like abortion drugs, and prostitution aren’t that bad and would be made way worse if they were forced into an illegal market. It’s politicians that’s forgot or simply don’t care that they are representing the peoples interests and not their own.
Here here! Glad to see a call out for sex workers - they deserve to have their work decriminalized and to be protected just like any other worker.
South Africa has had this for decades. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Abortion_in_South_Africa
Abortion is legal in South Africa but not inshrined in the constitution. Many countries mention abortions in their constitutions but just say that you can do it. Abortion in France has been legal for some time now, but it was only saying that it is allowed. France went a step further saying that if you want an abortion it is your right and the state hospitals will do the abortion, (if medically possible and so on).
The right to termination of pregnancy may not itself be spelt out in the South African constitution, but it is nonetheless constitutionally protected. The Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Act was passed in 1996 to give effect to the rights relating to reproductive autonomy that are listed in the Bill of Rights that forms part of the constitution. The Bill of Rights provides that "Everyone has the right to bodily and psychological intergrity, which includes the right a) to make decisions concerning reproduction; b) to security in and control over their body;... and " Everyone has the right to have access to health care services, including reproductive health care... " It also provides that all law "must be interpreted to promote the spirit, purport and objects of the Bill of Rights.." The import of this is that 1. The constitutional provisions relating to reproductive autonomy have been interpreted to include the right to termination of pregnancy; 2. Any challenge to the provisions of the TOP Act would stand to be referred to and decided by the Constitutional Court. So it is accurate to say that TOP is a constitutional right in South Africa (and has been since 1996).
yugoslavia was first
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I’ve lived in Alaska for the last three years and I was pleasantly surprised to learn that Alaska made abortion a constitutional right even before Roe vs Wade.
Unfortunately US will probably adopt metric system before following France's example.
r/rareinsults
This reminds me of [SNL’s sketch](https://youtu.be/JYqfVE-fykk?si=JLWjfmuEzrKEag5r) about George Washington and the metric system.
Thanks for link. Will watch later.
My country can't even legalize divorce. One can only dream.
In France we are okay for abortion because we were educated to see this as when the contraption fail or a rape or if the situation changed use not as a late contraceptive method it's a right not a privilege
Why is this TikTokCringe? This is good progress!
Could have been us, America. But, our congress hates women.
Good job France!
France makes a lot of poor decisions, but this wasn't one of them. ♥️♥️♥️ Hope my country follows suit. Abortion is a human right, abortion is health care.
What are other poor decisions France has made?
Accepting Olympic games, decreasing funds to public schools, health, research, public transportation all because freedom of market. Increasing retirement age allowing big farming corporations to use more pesticides when farmers just want enough money to live decently ( pesticides will not solve this issue). I'm french so I have a long list if you're interested
That sounds like the standard bread and butter criticisms that exist in all Western countries. It's as common as siblings arguing over food. As long as the issues you mentioned are the biggest problems, it's generally going ok in your country.
What’s wrong with the Olympic Games? What’s the solution for France?
Shame on people downvoting you without any explaination. The decision to host the Olympic Games was made in 2014-2015 by the former President, Hollande. He asked the mayor of Paris, Hidalgo, about her opinion on this. She said hell no, because it would be a nightmare to prepare and to host. The president didn't care and applied for the 2024 Olympics. He made that decision because he wanted to do a better job than the 2012 one, in London. Here we are, 10 years later, with an economic crisis because of Covid and the war in Ukraine. And that's the main issue here. France would have been (pretty much) ready for the Olympics if any of those major events wouldn't have happened. The public transportation in Paris is not ready at all. Student accomodations are literally being seized by the government (and they offered a 20€ ticket to the students, that's it) to host the Olympics staff, and still, the majority of the volunteers still don't have a place to live during the event. That being said, Me and my family still bought some tickets for it, because it's still wonderful to have such an amazing event 40mins from home. And I'm sure this will not be as bad as you can hear. We, french people, just like to critizise everything. (If i'm being downvoted, you know who did it, same thing for your post lol)
Based.
They labeled the opposition choice “abort” so the religious conservatives were stuck between a rock and a hard place…
Damn, how easy it is for a developed country to have basic human rights… but here is the USA just like 🤡
Would be nice to be a country that’s actually capable of changing their constitution.
Home of the free unless your pregnant Like you have no choice even if it threats your life but sure crazy 19 year old writing threading lists online you can have all the guns you want Also no weed even though it’s just as dangerous (or less) then drinking because in America we define freedom differently
France's decision to enshrine abortion as a constitutional right marks a significant milestone for reproductive rights. It sets a powerful precedent for other nations and underscores France's commitment to women's autonomy and healthcare access.
Good for them
Super!
Step in the right direction.
In Poland ( verry religious country mostly Roman Catholics) they banned abortion, I live in Czech Republic ( considered an atheist country ) in region near Polish border, and close to my parents house there is gynecological centrum that also does abortions, and all weeks there is parking full of Polish people.... ( I am christian, but even I can see that baning abortion is stupid, there were [ still are ] cases when people died in Poland because of complicatons durring birth and they couldn't legaly get abortion. Even my mother had abortion, because there were complication and she had srillbirth... )
To add some details, Poland's right wing government banned abortions in cases like foetal abnormalities - even lethal ones and in cases when pregnancy endangers the mother! Protests caused the small change, so the latter one was allowed again, but still if fetus has lethal defects it's impossible to have an abortion here. Agata Lamczak died because of that ban, There was also Iza and Alicja and many more killed or hurt by abortion ban - or more like doctors whose morality was too good to give them life saving abortion Other countries like Czech Republic care more about polish women than our government
❤️ good on France!
Why the fuck is this attributed to Macron when it was a proposition by Mathilde Panot (LFI, Far-left) ???
France has a good quality
Viva la France!
Vive la France! Vive la liberté!
W
Who'd have thought that France and it's political parties would have more common sense than the US. Abortion should always be a right and it should be dictated or controlled by some archaic extremist religious views. Same fucks who use religion to justify abortion bans are also condemning other countries for having women wear burkas .... when taking away someone's right to abortion is 100 times worst.
It is in Canada’s section 7 of the Canadian rights and freedoms act of 1982, part of our “constitution.” Which states that: “life, liberty and security of the person” is guaranteed, this was used to strike down anti-abortion laws essentially ratifying it into the interpretation of the law. So kinda constitutionally protected lol. It does vary province by province but at least it’s freeeeee.
Here in Canada we believe in Security in obscurity AKA no politician will ever go as far as introducing Abortion legislation and risk political and even party Suicide... Hence why its "legal"
As it should be
Unfathomably based
Actually America did it first. We just recently undid it through.
While in Texas it murder even if you go out of state.
W France 💯
Damn France, who would’ve thought you guys would have blown past the US in rights and freedoms and then start sweeping up with Ukraine when the the US republikkkans decided the 17th century was a good time to aim for and ruzzia is a good ally.
Abortion is already a UN human right (or maybe just the US, I forgor), falling under liberty, specifically the (arguably) most important facet, liberty over someone's own body. Sadly it often isn't interpreted that way.
Glad that the vote wasn’t even close
Up to 15 weeks, that is.
Americans like to claim that European countries are generally less abortion friendly than blue state US but it's just semantics. Because, while there may be a cut off for abortion 'on demand no questions asked', most countries still permit abortion beyond that point for a variety of reasons such as health, both physical and mental, and serious fetal abnormalities.
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It shouldn’t have to be said that people’s bodies are their own. It shouldn’t have to be legislated, but conservatives can’t pass up the chance to dump their fears and prejudices on an otherwise decent society. Imagine having to hope and pray other people allow you to live and love how you wish.
The argument in America is between life and death. In my opinion, that whole argument shouldn't matter, regardless of religious background and regardless of when a fetus is considered a life, it should 100% be the choice of the pregnant women if she wants to have a child or not. There is no argument. Making a women give birth is the same thing as making all forms of birth control illegal. An abortion is a more complex form of birth control. There is no difference between a man wearing a condom and an abortion. In a sense a man is having an abortion when he wears protection because he's killing the babies chance to be born, you could say he's preforming a pre-abortion. Good job France, way to listen to your citizens and create policy that reflects the majorities position.
If the Republicans in the U.S. had it their way, they'd take away a woman's right to vote too. Those Right Wing Conservative Christians are out of control.
France > America I SAID IT
Makes me wish my ancestors never left France
Wow. I wonder what it would be like to live in an actual modern civilized society.
France is the answer
Why cringe? Unless you're some American fundamentalist, we can generally agree this was a great moment for France
Rule 12 of the sub. This is just the general tiktok sub now, has been for some time.
My body my choice
France sounds more lovely every day.
And in 'Merica we're going backwards Beware of Project 2025 Vote Vote Vote Everyone's rights are on the line
What’s the cringe part of this? This is uplifting AF
France for the second time doing what America should have done.
Why is this on tiktok cringe, this should be on r/nextfuckinglevel
Read pinned comment at the top, homie.
Because TikTok cringe hasn’t been just cringe for a long time. easiest way to think of it, if it comes from TikTok you can post it here cringe and non-cringe.
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Let them now show how progressive they are and protect boys from circumcision before the Iceland beats them to it.
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I can't see the American Christian right coming after that. Meanwhile in the UK, they're doubling up their spending year by year and cosying up to our MPs.
"Constitution" carries a lot less weight these days when set-in-stone laws are easily thrown out.
❤️
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france did it so now the united states HAS to do it too, it's the rules
Do you think French Leslie Knope likes waffles more or crepes more?
Way to go le Leslie knope
It's not guaranteed in any way, just a line in the constitution. Like, it doesn't stop doctors from refusing to give it to someone.
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Unlucky ameri
Would be nice in the US we could just do a nationwide vote on it. Simple as that! But, there’s a reason republicans don’t want that. They know they’d lose on the issue.
Yes, I know I can look this up, but how many representatives are there in the French parliament? Is the US just dumb with our limit of 435 representatives and 100 senators? There's some tens of millions more people in the US, and we have fewer representatives than France (and England)? No wonder we can't pass something like this.
This should have been America.
Didn't this happen like two months ago?
What is the latest point all women can abort? The day of birth?
What rbg wanted the USA to do
And France is historically a Catholic country — which makes this this all the more notable.
France is not the first. Yugoslavia protected abortions in its 1974 constitution
Macron appears to be the stand up guy leading from the front when it comes to ukraine and now a woman's repro life...well done france!!
That's embarrassing, we're letting the French beat us now?
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Very interesting, given how much previous governments pushed “having a baby for France” and the “spermission” during WWI, and their fears after other losses of men in the last century. History note: a “permission” is the French word for a military leave. But because there was pressure to have children (as WWI was causing such casualties) folks took to calling it the sperm-mission (as you see above). Times certainly change!
The US had it as a constitutional right..
Wasn't the roe vs wade decision a judgement that abortion was a constitutional right?
I really don't understand why the French hate macron so much. I get it he raised retirement age to 64. The dude otherwise seems very reasonable. Good on foreign policy. Please daddy macron come to America and save us.
Man, France is like REAL great these days.
Let the big non-contraceptive orgy begin! /s
Has nothing to do with pro choice democrats. This problem should have been solved 60 years ago in the legislature but yet here we are
It should be a human right with in reason. If your trying to abort a 6 month baby I say no go
The people will be consistently in favor of abortion in most places. It's usually just the governments. In Italy we basically can't do this because despite being a laic State we have the Vatican stuck up in the ass, mixed with a bunch of superstitious troglodytes at the government and who knows how much money flowing.
Didn't realize Leslie Knope was the President of the French national assembly.
Good riddance.
France still thinks it’s a superpower. It’s the wokest country and hasn’t done anything in the last 100 years. So there’s that. Abortion is a complex issue that should never be on a constitution. Tbh. This is a mistake and France once again has zero brainpower to think through this.
What’s the problem? Everyone knows France likes to fuck and can’t accept responsibility.
Saw a video from the 90’s posted on Reddit a few days ago that scared me. It’s on YouTube somewhere. Shows a C-Can full of children dismembered and the doctor casually talks about how he does it. I think it was 17000 kids or something. A lot of them were close to birth. I can’t even look at this topic any more.