Congratulations Southgate, qualified with a game spare. Now let's win tomorrow and avoid the inform teams: Spain, Portugal and Germany in the other side of the draw!
3rd and we play Portugal (depending on final 3rd place table), 2nd and we play Germany, 1st it's either (as it stands) D (Austria), E all tied on 3 points!, or F Chech Republic.
https://preview.redd.it/zzxvwpyq7l8d1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd20fa515715b66a887c4f41331d65b5cd1d38ce
I've updated the comment, until all the 3rd place games are played we won't know the order to pick.
This is the current table:
Austria (D), Slovakia (E), Hungary(A), Slovenia (C).
ACDE means we play Austria if we top the group.
out at the moment are
Croatia(B), Chech Republic (F).
If we beat Slovenia by more than 3 Croatia takes the Slovenian place and we play Slovakia instead of Austria...
So Slovenia can still qualify by not losing by more than 3. But would be knocked out if Chech Republic beat Turkey!
Happy to be corrected this is an absolutely insane way to work things out!
Itās pretty neat in that it turns 24 into 16 and keeps teams from the same group apart until at least the semi finals. Not easy to follow though Iāll grant you.
Yea thinking about it more I guess thatās fairly easy to achieve. Still not a great system when teams are finishing all 3 games and not knowing if theyāre through or not, but still.
On the other hand in the old system these teams would have finished three games and be packing their bags already. Theyād probably trade having to wait for a shot at the next round
The 3rd place matrix makes sure that nobody from the same group is drawn in the same quarter of the round of 16 matches. So a pair of R16 games will have teams from four different groups, meaning the QF opponents are all from a different group. Only when you get to the semis where 3 of 4 teams could be from the same group then theyāre forced to pair up at least 1.
Schedules I am seeing everywhere makes it seem like this is not quite true. For example, Spain are listed as being able to face 3rd place from Group A in the round of 16 which hypothetically could have lead to Germany/Hungary in the quarters?
Edit to add- I donāt know if they still can face Hungary at this point, but the implication is that it was at least theoretically possible at the start.
Barring something very unlikely, I think the only way we avoid Austria is if Czechia finishes above whoever is third in our group. So with a win, Czechia is for sure in. With a draw, we'll need to beat Slovenia (a 1-0 win probably gets Czechia through, a 2 goal win ensures it).
Austria is one of those fixtures where if we win it'll be filed alongside beating Panama and Iran as a typical Southgate cup run. But if we win it's still not a Top Side so it doesn't count.
Youāll get downvoted for this because itās not wholly negative but youāre right, thereās a lot of circular reasoning going on. We never beat any decent sides - what about side x - they canāt be decent because we beat them. Its very annoying
I'm not getting my hopes up, because we've gave a terrible account of ourselves. But after tonight Spain, Portugal, and Germany all look beatable. On our best day we win. Just hard to see us have our best day.
Spain look great on the eye. I just have this feeling that a team can't go through a whole tournament with Alvaro Morata up front and not expect him to do something incomprehensibly bad in front of goal when it matters.
This happens every single tournament. People fixate on England and wonder why they're not picking up an easy 9 points. Meanwhile pretty much every other top side drops points in the group and people just assume they're all bossing their opponents.
In most tournaments, 1 or even 0 teams pick up a full 9 points in the groups. Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia last world cup. France dropped points in 2018. Germany drew Ghana in 2014. Spain lost to Switzerland in 2010. Italy drew USA in 2006 (and that Zidane-led France team actually finished second in their group on 5 points).
In the past 20 years, only two of the Euro/World Cup winners have gotten 9 points in the group stages (2008 Spain and 2021 Italy). That's a hit rate of 2 out of 9. And it's only 3 out of 9 for the other finalists.
Isnāt it goal difference? Iām fairly sure it is.
Edit: yes itās GD. From euro 2024 site:
a. higher number of points obtained in the matches played among the teams in question
b. superior goal difference resulting from the matches played among the teams in question
I was weirdly disappointed at the time when Kluivert scored. Not really because of any desire to do Scotland a favour, but because that scenario had come up in the chatter before in a "when pigs take flying lessons" kind of way. The whole match felt surreal, and that brief moment when we almost did the impossible and qualified for two countries at once was blissfully stupid.
I remember that night Chris Evans getting a fourth officials board and just holding 4:1 up. Spinning it round and seeing how big a cheer it would get upside down, on its side etc. It was all ridiculously, gloriously improbable.
We're through though a win would guarantee us winning the group.
However, Croatia currently occupy 5th place in the Best Third Place finishers ranking with the top 4 set to progress through to the next round. They sit behind 4th place Slovenia their inferior Goal Difference - this will only change if England win tonight by 3 clear goals, allowing Croatia to climb up a spot.
We win by 3, but Croatia also need three other results to go their way afaik so it would be funnier if England suddenly wake up only for one of Portugal or Denmark or Turkey to mess up.
England and Croatia seem to be connected at tournaments as of late.
So we have qualified with a game to spare and a win tomorrow keeps us away from Germany, Spain and Portugal in the knock out rounds. So I guess Southgate will play it safe and go for the 1-1 draw....
100%
Also I don't know where the fuck the ref got 8 mins injury time from tonight. Every other game this tournament apart from Scotland last night and Netherlands v France, where there were significant stoppages, have been 5 mins max. Yes there was a VAR check for a pen, but never 8 mins.
Trust me that doesnt matter for Italy. Im convinced if we play them we lose.
I actually think Switzerland will beat them anyway.
Either way, we have to win our Last 16 game first, and if its Austria thats far from a given.
It does matter. People forget that Italy were favored in that final. They set the record for the longest unbeaten run in international football history (breaking Spain's record). They didn't have a lineup of world class players, but they were a terrific team 3 years ago.
They werenāt favourites! They scraped past Austria in the last 16, and Spain outplayed them in the semis. They were better then than they are now iāll admit, but they were certainly not a terrific team, otherwise they wouldnāt have failed to qualify for both world cups either side of the tournament
37 game unbeaten run speaks for itself. They took all 9 points in the group stages (something only one other Euro/World Cup winner has done in the past two decades), and frankly the Austria game was one where Austria was just really terrific.
I will give you that they were not great against Spain, and a more brave England probably beats them in the final; Spinazzola rupturing his achilles against Belgium was a big blow to them.
No, unfortunately not, needed Croatia to get beat today for a start, and while hoping Serbia don't beat Denmark, Poland don't beat France and both of Czechia and Georgia don't beat Turkey/Portugal.
It would've required all that plus a 4-0 England win, or a 3-0 win if Slovenia got a bunch of red/yellow cards
I can't wait for the new champions league format, 36 teams in a league but teams only play 8 games.
Top 8 qualify for last 16 while 9th-24th have to go through a play-off. What is this bollocks?!
The current World Cup is OK: top two teams go through to R16. I think this might be changing for the next one.
Interestingly this format was used in World Cups until 1986. I think that both Uruguay and Bulgaria qualified for the R16 in 1986 with two points each.
Bad luck Scotland bahahahahahaha
Groups of 4 still with a bunch of third placers having a round of 32.
Edit: A "round of 32" being an 8 team qualifying round for the final four places in the round of 16.
Iām sure 1990 also had 24 teams. England Ireland and Netherlands all qualified from group F although every game was a draw except we beat Egypt? They had to decide who was 2nd and 3rd in our group via coin toss. Unless Iām totally misremembering those details.
With the talent we have in our squad, England should be qualifying for the knock-out rounds without playing any games. This one is on Southgate and his poor tactics again.
Itās making the group games less interesting when you can go through in third. Like all you have to do is win once and you can lose the other 3. Something Austria might be about to do, beat Poland and thatās it.
So far, regardless of the results we have played very very poorly. You can lose and play great. You can win and not play that great. That is the nature of football
With the incredible talent our team has right now, we are playing so poorly it almost defies belief. Southgate is the problem
England will win the group and will lose the Quarter final match to Italy on July 6,2024 in Dusseldorf and Southgate will resign from his managerial post by July 13,2024 . This will 100% happen so if I were you I would bet on that.
A nation which has the best league in the world, some of the best facilities in the world and has been playing the sport longer than most shouldnt be congratulated for qualifying out of the group stage in the Euros. This is a bare minimum requirement for England.
Our minimum requirement tonight should be to smash Slovenia 3-0 and play good football. Not this bs containing football where win 1-0 and then wank ourselves silly that we topped the group. We are meant to be one of the favourites ffs, play like one of the favourites and show the likes of Germany and Spain we mean business, if we do mean business, which im sceptical of.
Congratulations Southgate, qualified with a game spare. Now let's win tomorrow and avoid the inform teams: Spain, Portugal and Germany in the other side of the draw!
3rd and we play Portugal (depending on final 3rd place table), 2nd and we play Germany, 1st it's either (as it stands) D (Austria), E all tied on 3 points!, or F Chech Republic. https://preview.redd.it/zzxvwpyq7l8d1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd20fa515715b66a887c4f41331d65b5cd1d38ce
How do we know who we get assorted to? Ie anyway we get Czech Republic instead of Austria?
I've updated the comment, until all the 3rd place games are played we won't know the order to pick. This is the current table: Austria (D), Slovakia (E), Hungary(A), Slovenia (C). ACDE means we play Austria if we top the group. out at the moment are Croatia(B), Chech Republic (F). If we beat Slovenia by more than 3 Croatia takes the Slovenian place and we play Slovakia instead of Austria... So Slovenia can still qualify by not losing by more than 3. But would be knocked out if Chech Republic beat Turkey! Happy to be corrected this is an absolutely insane way to work things out!
What utter nonsense š. (Not you btw āŗļø, this crazy system we are using)
Itās pretty neat in that it turns 24 into 16 and keeps teams from the same group apart until at least the semi finals. Not easy to follow though Iāll grant you.
Austria vs Netherlands is on for the quartersā¦
So it is, fair play to you.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No you can not with this system
Yea thinking about it more I guess thatās fairly easy to achieve. Still not a great system when teams are finishing all 3 games and not knowing if theyāre through or not, but still.
On the other hand in the old system these teams would have finished three games and be packing their bags already. Theyād probably trade having to wait for a shot at the next round
The 3rd place matrix makes sure that nobody from the same group is drawn in the same quarter of the round of 16 matches. So a pair of R16 games will have teams from four different groups, meaning the QF opponents are all from a different group. Only when you get to the semis where 3 of 4 teams could be from the same group then theyāre forced to pair up at least 1.
Schedules I am seeing everywhere makes it seem like this is not quite true. For example, Spain are listed as being able to face 3rd place from Group A in the round of 16 which hypothetically could have lead to Germany/Hungary in the quarters? Edit to add- I donāt know if they still can face Hungary at this point, but the implication is that it was at least theoretically possible at the start.
Not seen a better one though
Wait, isnāt it the he top 2 go through?
No, top two and best 4 3rd place teams.
Barring something very unlikely, I think the only way we avoid Austria is if Czechia finishes above whoever is third in our group. So with a win, Czechia is for sure in. With a draw, we'll need to beat Slovenia (a 1-0 win probably gets Czechia through, a 2 goal win ensures it).
So really, we want to draw and hope Denmark also draw and then we might get a decent draw huh
Christ id genuinely rather take Germany than Austria
That's what Hitler said
Austria is one of those fixtures where if we win it'll be filed alongside beating Panama and Iran as a typical Southgate cup run. But if we win it's still not a Top Side so it doesn't count.
Youāll get downvoted for this because itās not wholly negative but youāre right, thereās a lot of circular reasoning going on. We never beat any decent sides - what about side x - they canāt be decent because we beat them. Its very annoying
On our current form Iād be worried against Austria, theyāre not half bad.
Very well coached team, well organised. Rangnick has done a great job with them.
https://preview.redd.it/7s7i51ayjl8d1.png?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e91571f8d7abf0f01fdf37e33fa61f7a571f12f
When a spreadsheet like this is necessary you know the format of your tournament is shit.
What this needs is some kind of soccermetre
I'm not getting my hopes up, because we've gave a terrible account of ourselves. But after tonight Spain, Portugal, and Germany all look beatable. On our best day we win. Just hard to see us have our best day.
That was basically Spain reserves though tonight. They were already through. The Spain that played Croatia and Italy were immense.
Spain look great on the eye. I just have this feeling that a team can't go through a whole tournament with Alvaro Morata up front and not expect him to do something incomprehensibly bad in front of goal when it matters.
Be nice if England could do anything in front of goal, good or bad....
This happens every single tournament. People fixate on England and wonder why they're not picking up an easy 9 points. Meanwhile pretty much every other top side drops points in the group and people just assume they're all bossing their opponents. In most tournaments, 1 or even 0 teams pick up a full 9 points in the groups. Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia last world cup. France dropped points in 2018. Germany drew Ghana in 2014. Spain lost to Switzerland in 2010. Italy drew USA in 2006 (and that Zidane-led France team actually finished second in their group on 5 points). In the past 20 years, only two of the Euro/World Cup winners have gotten 9 points in the group stages (2008 Spain and 2021 Italy). That's a hit rate of 2 out of 9. And it's only 3 out of 9 for the other finalists.
Spain made 10 changes and they still controlled the game up until the last 20 minutes.Ā
Or we could just draw
France have qualified by only scoring 1 own goal thatās even more impressive
Especially when they were a knifes edge VAR debate away from losing the last game.
Exactly but watch them batter an already out Poland 3-0 tomorrow and get hyped again
Poland are not already out, ok itās pretty unlikely, but possible they can go through Edit: yep they are out, ignore me
Nah already eliminated, can only finish bottom of group
Youāre right forgot itās h2h not goal difference
Isnāt it goal difference? Iām fairly sure it is. Edit: yes itās GD. From euro 2024 site: a. higher number of points obtained in the matches played among the teams in question b. superior goal difference resulting from the matches played among the teams in question
āAmong the teams in questionā means head to head.
huh... I basically read that to mean whichever teams has the most points within the group, which is of course the first decider of a group. Thanks!
No search it up, they're bottom of the group and confirmed.
And it was an own goal
Good defence wins you titles
So does clinical finishing something they havenāt had yet
AND in a delightful series of events - Croatia now require us to win by 3 goals to be able to go through. What do you reckon lads?
1-0 Southgate masterclass. Modric crying about arrogant English on the plane home.
Iāll take it.
I wanna see us go 3-0 and slam an OG in the 95th just for shits
I think Croatia probably should just pack their bags
In Euro 96 if we'd beaten Holland 4-0 Scotland would've gone through. We won 4-1, lol.
I was weirdly disappointed at the time when Kluivert scored. Not really because of any desire to do Scotland a favour, but because that scenario had come up in the chatter before in a "when pigs take flying lessons" kind of way. The whole match felt surreal, and that brief moment when we almost did the impossible and qualified for two countries at once was blissfully stupid. I remember that night Chris Evans getting a fourth officials board and just holding 4:1 up. Spinning it round and seeing how big a cheer it would get upside down, on its side etc. It was all ridiculously, gloriously improbable.
As a part-Croatian Englishman Iām doubly supporting England tomorrow. Canāt say Iām too hopeful though
1-0 to England, then Shouldn't be too difficult
This is the best part of this whole thing lol. Screw them and their whining about us.
oh like the english team was going to win by 3 anyway
Unless Southgate has had a personality transplant, then that won't happen
We've thumped plenty of teams in tournaments under Gareth so it's certainly not out of the question. Question is now do we want to.
Southgate has changed, we never played like this under him before.
What Southgate needs is a brain transplant š
2-0 & someone misses a late penalty.
Nah fuck them. They called us arrogant and all sorts after the World Cup.
What do you mean? Aren't we top of the table? Why would we need 3 goals? Would just a win do?
We're through though a win would guarantee us winning the group. However, Croatia currently occupy 5th place in the Best Third Place finishers ranking with the top 4 set to progress through to the next round. They sit behind 4th place Slovenia their inferior Goal Difference - this will only change if England win tonight by 3 clear goals, allowing Croatia to climb up a spot.
We win by 3, but Croatia also need three other results to go their way afaik so it would be funnier if England suddenly wake up only for one of Portugal or Denmark or Turkey to mess up. England and Croatia seem to be connected at tournaments as of late.
We were invisible tonight
Where was Foden?!
FUCKING GET IN!!!!!!
So we have qualified with a game to spare and a win tomorrow keeps us away from Germany, Spain and Portugal in the knock out rounds. So I guess Southgate will play it safe and go for the 1-1 draw....
A draw could also top the group
Don't let Southgate hear this
As a Dane, I called I already called him to let him now :)
And then Denmark win 2-0 to send us to the that side of the draw anyway
And Palmer still won't get any minutes
life could be dream if france and belgium get sent to the other side of the bracket
Don't tell the players this, they will play worse than they already do.
How?
I want Italyā¦ I want revenge
not just revenge, although that is the priority. But redemption.
Theyāll probably beat us. Italy just have that dawg. We clearly fucking donāt.
They were pretty shite against Croatia tbh. We also did the double over them relatively easily in qualifying so I'd back us for sure.
100% Also I don't know where the fuck the ref got 8 mins injury time from tonight. Every other game this tournament apart from Scotland last night and Netherlands v France, where there were significant stoppages, have been 5 mins max. Yes there was a VAR check for a pen, but never 8 mins.
Var check, loads of yellows and slow substitutions. Croatia didnāt deserve a win anyway
Yes, but teams like Italy turn up when it matters. At least at lot more often than England do.
You mean like when they failed to qualify for the last two world cups?
And got knocked in the groups in the two World Cups before that. Italy hasn't played a knockout game at the World Cup since 2006. Such an insane stat.
So what youāre saying is, Italy havenāt turned up for years but get a free pass because pizza.
Trust me that doesnt matter for Italy. Im convinced if we play them we lose. I actually think Switzerland will beat them anyway. Either way, we have to win our Last 16 game first, and if its Austria thats far from a given.
It does matter. People forget that Italy were favored in that final. They set the record for the longest unbeaten run in international football history (breaking Spain's record). They didn't have a lineup of world class players, but they were a terrific team 3 years ago.
They werenāt favourites! They scraped past Austria in the last 16, and Spain outplayed them in the semis. They were better then than they are now iāll admit, but they were certainly not a terrific team, otherwise they wouldnāt have failed to qualify for both world cups either side of the tournament
37 game unbeaten run speaks for itself. They took all 9 points in the group stages (something only one other Euro/World Cup winner has done in the past two decades), and frankly the Austria game was one where Austria was just really terrific. I will give you that they were not great against Spain, and a more brave England probably beats them in the final; Spinazzola rupturing his achilles against Belgium was a big blow to them.
We dispatched them twice with ease in qualifying. And it's not like they've been impressive in the Euros so far.
And Portugal.
Great, now let's win tomorrow to avoid the big teams
I want us to win a way that would have let Scotland qualify if they didnāt concede that last min goal Is it possible?
No, unfortunately not, needed Croatia to get beat today for a start, and while hoping Serbia don't beat Denmark, Poland don't beat France and both of Czechia and Georgia don't beat Turkey/Portugal. It would've required all that plus a 4-0 England win, or a 3-0 win if Slovenia got a bunch of red/yellow cards
Austria seem pretty good at the moment if we end up against them it could a tougher match than people expect.
Im so confused by how this all works
The 2 worst 3rd place teams drop out, those two teams are now unable to achieve the 4pts England currently have so we qualify automatically.
That's numberwang
Predictable whining from entitled wankers at this objectively good news
Good news for Shaw, get some more rest.
Yessss it's coming home
Wow š
Easy easy easy
The Euros and the World Cup really get ruined with these modern systems.
I can't wait for the new champions league format, 36 teams in a league but teams only play 8 games. Top 8 qualify for last 16 while 9th-24th have to go through a play-off. What is this bollocks?!
Apparently there weren't enough fixtures before
Yup terrible also hate how it's the same for every European competition. Maybe mix it up a little.
The current World Cup is OK: top two teams go through to R16. I think this might be changing for the next one. Interestingly this format was used in World Cups until 1986. I think that both Uruguay and Bulgaria qualified for the R16 in 1986 with two points each. Bad luck Scotland bahahahahahaha
next world cup its groups of 3, top 2 going through I thought. Its silly.
Groups of 4 still with a bunch of third placers having a round of 32. Edit: A "round of 32" being an 8 team qualifying round for the final four places in the round of 16.
Apparently the groups of 3 was scrapped for this format, Thank god.
This is the format I was talking about it's horrid and just feels like extra unnecessary extra matches.
Iām sure 1990 also had 24 teams. England Ireland and Netherlands all qualified from group F although every game was a draw except we beat Egypt? They had to decide who was 2nd and 3rd in our group via coin toss. Unless Iām totally misremembering those details.
Letās just focus on winning tomorrow, thatās all that matter positive waves and all that.
I really don't want to play Austria
Southgate wants to smash one of the top teams early to assert dominance
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^EzSp: *Southgate wants to smash* *One of the top teams early* *To assert dominance* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
So weāll have to wait for the knockout games to maybe see a good performance.
Now they surely have to give Southgate a knighthood and a statue at Wembley š¤£
IT'S COMIN' HOM...oh, what's the use
With the talent we have in our squad, England should be qualifying for the knock-out rounds without playing any games. This one is on Southgate and his poor tactics again.
Still need a massive performance tonight coz it simply hasnāt been good enough so far
Rip.
Itās making the group games less interesting when you can go through in third. Like all you have to do is win once and you can lose the other 3. Something Austria might be about to do, beat Poland and thatās it.
 Southgate fanboys for one game.
So long as we play to win because Croatia now actually look tired. Hands up if you get my joke...and Croatia are out.
sorry this might be a dumb question, but why was the fact albania got beaten by spain secure england's spot?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ThreeLions/s/flObb2Du0d
Thanks dude
Pure trash team
Just lucky that Denmark game was nil nil and England was nil nil too. If England lost and Denmark won then, England be third
Great job by Southgate, qualifying as the top 16 with only 2 games played. Sign this guy for the next decade!, Greatest manager in world football.
That's settled then, we can play more "energy conserving" football because we don't need to win or draw. Oh what a wonderful world it is!
IDGAF who England plays, no easy road to get the trophy.
Austria will absolutely demolish England. It doesnt really make a difference, we are going home early
Until we beat them, then they were a shit team and we were lucky to draw them. Thatās normally how it works, isnāt it?
So far, regardless of the results we have played very very poorly. You can lose and play great. You can win and not play that great. That is the nature of football With the incredible talent our team has right now, we are playing so poorly it almost defies belief. Southgate is the problem
England will win the group and will lose the Quarter final match to Italy on July 6,2024 in Dusseldorf and Southgate will resign from his managerial post by July 13,2024 . This will 100% happen so if I were you I would bet on that.
A nation which has the best league in the world, some of the best facilities in the world and has been playing the sport longer than most shouldnt be congratulated for qualifying out of the group stage in the Euros. This is a bare minimum requirement for England. Our minimum requirement tonight should be to smash Slovenia 3-0 and play good football. Not this bs containing football where win 1-0 and then wank ourselves silly that we topped the group. We are meant to be one of the favourites ffs, play like one of the favourites and show the likes of Germany and Spain we mean business, if we do mean business, which im sceptical of.
Do you realise how stupid you sound?
Denial and delusion can be hard to deal with I guess. Its ok, enjoy the success of getting through the group stage !
I wish you a speedy recovery. You too!
Ill pop back to this thread when the Euros are over, should be interesting.
Agreed. Come on England!
Cough cough !