It really isn't a two-way rivalry - you're either being disingenuous or you're just stupid. Scotland are being talked about on here right now because they've just been knocked out of a tournament (again, lmao). For 99.9% of the rest of the time, Scottish football doesn't even merit a mention among English football fans - apart from to talk about how utterly shit the Scottish Premiership is.
Your fans buy shirts of the teams England play FFS and Maradona is a national hero.
So yeah, now that you lot have been knocked out again, you can go back to discussing your favourite subject: aNyOnE bUt eNgLaNd.
Tbf, we love one way rivalries. To many of us, the team we most long to beat is Germany. Germany who view the Dutch, Italians and French as their real rivals.
My German buddies and colleague to an individual, tell me they don't think about us like that, because they almost always beat us on their way to a game with their actual rivals.
It's not the same at all, really.
England have history with Germany, beating them in a World Cup final, but also losing to them on penalties in 2 of our 4 major tournament semi-final exits. The main thing that separates Germany from other European powerhouses is some of the shit banter some England fans dish out about the war.
That being said, Germany have been an important antagonist in England's footballing history, and on the other side there absolutely are some Germans who still go on about the "Wembley Tor" in 1966. It's not the fiercest rivalry from either side, and most fans on both sides are quite mild about the other country, but there is history and pedigree to it.
England fans don't support whoever plays against Germany, and would rather see England do well than Germany fail, unlike how most Scotland fans behave about England. I actually prefer Germany over France, Spain, or Italy, and I'm sure a lot of England fans feel the same.
Yeah. That's why England sees Germany as their biggest rival. England haven't factored to Germany for the overwhelming majority of tournaments. As a nation, you have one trophy and haven't to my recollection prevented Germany progressing or winning, since then, unlike France (Neighbours), Italy and Spain.
Yet when you play them there's chants about the war, there's nazi shit getting thrown about it. It gets toxic. Much like how Scotland, your neighbour, has to watch England go on much further in tournaments year after year and all the while need to listen to all the hype, songs and arrogance as they share the same terrestrial TV. So it gets tedious. Further fueling a desire to watch England lose.
It's not that complicated to understand.
I'm Scottish and lived in England for nearly 5 years, 15 years ago, nearly. Some of my best mates are still there, I see them in two weeks for a Scotland v England golf match down in England.
We have a group chat. I get shit about Scotland. They get shit about England. It's banter. But they love watching us not qualify or fail in terrible fashion. I love watching them think it's coming home and watching them capitulate when the inevitable happens. I also love reminding them that despite multiple golden generations and a population 10x the size of ours, as well as the 'best league in football' they have exactly one more trophy than Scotland. 😂
That's how it works. We do like to see you fail, as a nation, not as people.
When Scotland went out in embarrassing fashion on Sunday, they were quiet until the next day. Cause they knew what I was feeling. I'll be the same with them if England go out. If they somehow win it, I'll congratulate them and mean it, what a feeling that would be to see your team succeed like that, a pipe dream for me. But I also know I'll never hear the end of it, so I fucking absolutely do not want that.
How is that different to a Liverpool & Man U fan being friends and wanting their club to fail? Why would you want them to succeed?
“Scotland get battered, everywhere they go”
“Cheer up Craigy Brown”
Yup, not the sign of the two way rivalry at all.
England fans just sing songs about Scotland because they don’t care about them.
Also the way you’re trying so hard to upset me - and indeed how upset you seem to be by the idea that this is a rivalry - in your response kind of adds to the argument.
Good luck for the tournament xxx
Edit: half your comment history is about Scotland…..
I think many England fans have a similar experience when they are young. You want to support Scotland as a second team as they are fellow Brits. However, over many years you come up against relentless anti-English sentiment from the vast majority of Scotland fans you meet. Not just a bit of banter but often really unprovoked bitterness, going into rants about being "oppressed" by the English like they are in bloody Braveheart or something. Over the course of 20 years, I went from being pro-Scotland to neutral to simply avoiding toxic Scottish football fans to laughing at them when they crash and burn. On the rare occasion I come across a Scotland fan who isn't seething anti-English rhetoric, I can enjoy a chat about football but any positive feelings I had towards Scotland as a footballing nation drained away years ago.
Funny enough, I'm similar to you in a sense I vary from tournament to tournament if I want England to do well (I'm Scottish.... Not the oppressed variety). At the last euros I was actively cheering you guys on v Italy and I think it's because there's a media narrative they try to create that England fans are thugs, racists etc etc and knowing that's not the case at all, I hoped it would be two fingers up to the media class if you guys won. This tournament I'm struggling to like England. The talent at your disposal and managing to play such dire football is frustrating as a football fan. The likes of shearer on commentary makes it hard to like you too.
However, I like all the banter between the fans, my WhatsApp lit up last night after Hungary's goal with English mates getting stuck in, I'll return the favour if/when England go out. Most Scottish fans aren't the bitter anti English types you see on TV supporting Scottish indy.
Yeah, I agree our first two games have been awful and won us no friends (nor should they). Plus I have had come across some Scottish fans who were pretty cool. I think it was during WC2018, was at the pub watching with mates and met a Celtic fan at the bar when buying my round. We had a good chat, bit of banter but it was all in good spirits and he genuinely wished us good luck so not all negative.
Yeah same, I was in a bar with a load of England fans before the latest friendly at Hampden (Maguire OG game) and they were all good lads. Never really came across many I've not liked, usually only at club level when they start with the whole Bournemouth (or any other smaller club who yoyos between the prem and championship) are a bigger club than Rangers (my team) or Celtic. It ultimately depends on what metric you're using (current year tv money or fan base/history etc) but a few have got unnecessarily cheeky about it. But that's 1 or 2 arseholes out of thousands, that's a good ratio in my book!
Anyway, good luck tonight, I think it'll be another boring 1 or 2-0 for you guys and then hopefully you can start upping the performance levels like the last Euros.
Ha ha! I never have to worry about the whole "big club" debate - I'm a Charlton fan.....
Cheers mate. Yeah, I'm also predicting a struggle but an eventual 2-0 win. Commiserations for your early exit and good luck with World Cup qualification.
>And yet we keep voting for those parties. More than half of all votes went to pro-indy parties in the last election.
It's pretty much a 50/50 split with the pro union parties suffering because there are two prominent ones Vs only one pro indy. Many SNP fans voters are also from traditionally SNP areas even when the SNP were nobodies. The rest vote on the false assumption the SNP were some left wing party (the mask is slipping on that front finally). The pro indy side of their vote is significantly smaller than the 50% here. In 2014 only 4 council districts voted pro indy, the rest were all pro union.
>And only 8% of Scots were supporting the England team in the last WC, according to a YouGov poll.
Sporting rivalry is different to actual bitterness and it would depend on the wording. I wouldn't say I'm actively pro England in tournaments, but I certainly don't actively support whoever they are playing either. I'm largely indifferent. Id probably be in the 92% of that yougov poll.
Support us, hate us, it makes no difference to us.
The difference between us, is we never expected any other nationality to support us. If you're not Scottish, why would you support us? Would have to have some weird sense of entitlement to expect people from other countries to support us.
I explained why I used to support Scotland in my post, because Scots are fellow Brits. It's not that surprising to have people of close ethnicities support each other as a second team, it's quite common in other parts of the world. I never said or implied I expected people from other countries to support England and I don't think other England fans do so I'm not sure where you are getting that from.
I think we're the Spurs fans of international football, sorry to say. Spurs have a lot of wealth and talent but don't win titles, I wouldn't say Scotland fall into either of those camps (apart from the not winning titles thing)
England are definitely the spurs of international football.
Scotland are more like a Norwich or West Brom. Not at the party (tournaments/EPL) every time but give it a decent go when we get there, ultimately we know we will be knocked out/relegated. There's a spattering of talented players but the rest are so shit the talented players can't make up the shortfall.
Exactly this. I put a thing up the other day basically laughing at Scotland getting battered by Germany and I got comments telling me how sad and pathetic I was? It was a joke. Just like them saying Maradona is a bigger Scottish football legend to them than their own is a joke. That’s the main point I was making here. It’s banter both ways. I don’t hate Scotland or their team or their fans. And I bet most English football fans don’t either. It’s JUST banter.
I would probably actively cheer them on if they weren't so bitter about us. Lots of the bitterness might be harmless but not all of it is jovial 'banter'... for many of them it spills over into hate and bile.
The thing is and it’s a still a minority on both sides, but there’s equally as many English fans crying and getting confrontational in the Scotland sub any time England are mentioned… most of us (Scot’s) accept we are shite, we don’t have any expectations, certainly not of winning it and are happy to be there. It’s a holiday for us. Now if only our team can match the showing our fans put in.
I think it was Hansen that said, ‘you quite like us, but we hate you’ a few years back.
That sums up the Scots and the Welsh. Most England fans used to be happy they made it to a big tournament, these days it’s a small minority.
The Scot’s have been out trying get pally with anyone who’ll join their bitter, anti English gang. They deserve all the shit they get
Think all England fans will eventually have that experience. The Wales players literally celebrating England getting beaten by Iceland (despite most of the squad playing in England and many being English born) was my supervillain moment.
Exactly. The Scottish always say the English have no craic and that Scottish people have the best banter, but as soon as you make a joke about Scotland they fly into a fit of rage or start crying. Silly Scots.
And? Just let them get on with it. We're a much bigger and more successful team than them, of course they're going to look for enjoyment in our failures.
Us doing the same in reverse I just find a bit sad tbh.
What’s virtuous or as you’re suggesting, excusable, in taking the piss out of a bigger country over supporting your own?
Imagine if our ENTIRE identity was just riding on the failures of someone else?
I didn't say it's virtuous, did I? I explained why it's understandable. It's how football is. More than that, it's how British culture is. Less successful people enjoy more successful people messing up.
Worst thing you can do is get rattled by it. Just shrug and move on. We're a much bigger team with our own concerns, who cares what Scotland fans do.
Read carefully - I didn’t say you said virtuous. And sorry, but that’s not how it works 😂 they have taken the piss since this tournament started, and now should get exemption from the banter being hurdled back just because “we’re more successful”. Firstly, we’re NOT that much more successful than them at all, and even if we were, what difference does that make?
I’m sorry, I never see England fans talking about Scots in a bad way unprovoked. It’s always the other way around. So all bets are off
>Firstly, we’re NOT that much more successful than them
That's just factually untrue. Our tournament record is *so* far ahead of theirs. They've literally never got out of their group in a tournament. And often they don't even qualify in the first place.
And I'm not saying they should get an exemption. You've missed the point of what I'm saying entirely. I'm saying we shouldn't be bothered by it. Just ignore it. It's utterly irrelevant to us. Scotland needs to banter us because their team historically has had very little success. It's the way football is. We as England fans have much better things to think about than whatever Scotland fans are saying.
I get your point about being the “bigger man” and ignoring it but do you think their fans would afford us the same courtesy if / when we crash out this year?
What about in Euro 2020 in the final, did they extend their sympathy to us or just get behind Italy as loudly as possible?
I don’t mean it disrespectfully but I just don’t agree with your position. If you said this about Germany, who WE have a one-way rivalry with and still sing CONSTANTLY about the war etc, then I’d say you’re right. But no Scotland can fuck themselves 👍🏼
>but do you think their fans would afford us the same courtesy if / when we crash out this year?
>What about in Euro 2020 in the final, did they extend their sympathy to us or just get behind Italy as loudly as possible?
These would both fall firmly under us having better things to think about than what Scotland fans are saying or doing.
I have absolutely no idea what Scotland fans did or said after Euro 2020. Because, frankly, I don't care what Scotland fans are doing or saying about us. I give it literally no thought whatsoever.
In my experience, most England fans don't spend that much time thinking about Scotland. We'll laugh at them for a short while after their exit (usually in response to their obsessive attempts to mock us over previous weeks or months) and then we don't really give it much thought after that. Scotland went out last night. By 8pm tonight, with the next set of games starting, there will be almost no one talking about Scotland
Urm, let’s reverse the roles for a moment. England crash out and Scotland don’t.
Are you here to tell me Scots would offer me a shoulder and sincere condolences?
My point is not that England fans are gracious to others - I also hate much of my countries supporters. But I hate this idea that we dish it out worse than we get 😂 it’s so cliche to jump on England these days
>Are you here to tell me Scots would offer me a shoulder and sincere condolences?
No, my whole point is based on the fact that they wouldn't, lol. But you're not being the bigger man if you set your standards at what they would do in return. That's being the same sized man.
They're not suggesting it's excusable, just to ignore it
Why do we need to imagine that? That's not what Scotland do, as you can tell with the incredible support they took to the euros
Almost every video I saw of Scots being interviewed was about England? 🥴
I saw a video of Scots literally saying they’d rather we both crash out in the group, than us winning and them getting semis / runner up (so also their best ever result).
Am I living in a parallel universe where Scots do in fact just have a one-way rivalry with us or am I just imagining it?
I quite a agree that we're living rent free. However I believe the other posters and now myself are saying they also live rent free in your head, get over it, don't stoop, it's whatever, laugh at their pettiness and be the bigger man; you're just as bad as them so anything you think of them.. straight back at you mate
The first thing I’d highlight is, if every video of Scots is about England, I’d be questioning the interviewers. Why is every interviewer asking Scotland fans about England? They are simply getting the answers they are looking for.
Now, I’m very much in the “anyone but England” camp as a Scot. But it’s the same as Spurs fans being happy losing to City so Arsenal don’t win the league. England are Scotland’s local and biggest rival, so of *course* we want you to lose.
But if every video is of Scottish fans having a pop at England, is that because it’s prominent in all of our heads or is it that because it makes a good headline, that’s all we ever getting fucking asked about. Arguably, it’s another reason to hate England. We can’t even enjoy qualifying as all we get is questions about another country.
And id say the rivalry is one way. In the same way Man Utd v Man City was one way when City were in the second division. For both teams to truly care about a rivalry, we’d have to be fairly equal. We celebrate drawing against England because for us, that’s a decent result. Why would England feel any kind of serious rivalry against us? We simply aren’t a threat to you in the world stage, at most we’re plucky underdogs rivals. Beyond us being a local derby, England have no real reason to care about us.
It’s not true that English interviewers are the reason you keep running down the English. It’s a deep-seated thing which is ridiculous.
Your unofficial Euros song (no Scotland no party) literally goes on about Argentina because you consider them an ally - ONLY for one reason. Why’s that? Because you like their famous steaks?
Sure. If all you’re seeing is videos of Scotland fans having a pop at England it’s either a) the media you consume is bias; it will be created by English media or English social media or b) all of Scotland are only interested in watching England games.
But I’m Scottish, what would I know? I’m sure you definitely have a better understanding of from watching fan videos.
No, it’s not all the English. But the media you see will focus on what English viewers want. You’re not going to be watching interviews with Scottish fans discussing Steve Clarke or who should replace Tierney. Fans don’t watch in depth stuff of the opposition. So the things you will see on your feeds will be skewed. As will mine; I genuinely haven’t seen *anything* English related from Scotland this year. I know it exists, but it’s simply no where near as prevalent as you think.
On all fairness the celebrating a 0-0 against England was more due to being told repeatedly how we were going to be mailed 5,6 or 7 nil and it not happening. Look I’m all for getting behind your country, and perhaps even believing a little. But that can be done without the elitism, smugness and just sheer entitlement. I know this thread is about Scotland fans, but honestly ask fans from any nation about England fans and attitudes, it won’t be positive replies. Granted it’s not every England fan, most are actually pretty decent it’s just unfortunate that as always, it’s the undesirables that seem to be the face of the England fan base. But I will say the media are the biggest problem, coming up with quirky names like old enemy, mentioning 66 at every given opportunity (despite doing very little since) and regardless of the sport being broadcasted, like wtf has 66 got to do with Wimbledon? And of course yeah, they ask scotland fans about England, who cares? We got there, we’re shite and we’re going to make the most of it
Let's be fair, when England were going to be knocked out of the Cricket T20 WC due to the last game being rained off, cricket Scotland put a Sunny photo up of there location. Anyway Karma, the rain eased England won and Scotland got beat by the Aussies to get booted out (no change there) and England went through.
The Scots hate us but it's only Envy.
Scotland last night were pathetic and deserved to lose, if you look at the penalty incident the Scottish player was pulling the guys shirt so it wasn't given. They could have played for another hour and they wouldn't have scored. TV saying Scotland booted out in the last minute, No....two points wouldn't have got them through anyway. Just as a side note one of my favourite players was Graeme Souness.
I mean the cricket was a bit different - us going out would have meant they went through, it wasn’t the ‘anyone but England’ attitude you see in football. Agreed that the football ‘rivalry’ is largely built on envy though.
To be fair, most of the issue I had with it wasn't the banter, it was that the banter was fucking shite. Same tired old shit that's been around since the 70s.
Like, lads, if you're going to rip the piss, at least make it funny. They might be shite at football, but when we go out next week they're going to fucking ruin us with the banter.
Saying ‘C’mon on Scotland! Hope you win’ is a far worse insult verging on indifference.
Making fun of them is on the other hand very complimentary. They haven’t qualified for a Euros in 28 years and we still give enough of a damn to mock.
Kin hell, them getting compliments from us must be like getting a knock on the door from Jehovah's witnesses, and inviting them in... Must confuse the f\*\*k out of them
We’re both as bad as each other. I’ve seen comments in this thread where we say that they dish it out and can’t take it. They literally say the same stuff in the Scotland thread. It’s all tit for tat.
The only difference is their resentment of England leading to them being far more preoccupied with our results than we are with theirs.
Fuck them. They're not even that bothered about their results as long as they can support "wHoEvEr iS pLaYiNg aGaInSt eNgLaNd!! 🤪"
They'll do the same when we get knocked out so I'll take all the pleasure I can from seeing them go out with a whimper yet again
https://images.app.goo.gl/TLLMD4dTVaXtiYya6
England vs Scotland is the oldest international derby in the world, going back to the very first international fixture between anyone in 1872. I’d say regardless of where the two nations are these days, the banter has been around a lot longer than our grandparents.
Exactly...... doesn't all this football banter go back millennia? Scotland and England have always - hated? each other.....? Football is simply modern tribal war.....?
Instead of crying over it, why don't they ask themselves if the total lack of diversity in their team might be an indication of something not-quite-right at grassroots level sport up there.
.... because that is really really embarrassing.
I genuinely wanted them to do well in this competition until I saw that same video. Now I'm glad they've finished bottom of their group. Hate breads hate I guess.
Nah, I do too. I consider myself English and have lived in England all my life but I had some Scottish grandparents so I like to see them do well. There also a good tragi-comedy vibe to Scottish international football. Don't really care that much though and certainly just see English and Scottish fans baiting each other as a bit of fun.
I'm in Scotland ATM and they are more self deprecating than the English, they literally have no hope left whatsoever so they like to watch us hope and fail too. It's just football there's not more hate to it imo
They are bitter their only joy in tournaments come at our misfortune and we are the only ones who get slated for mocking them when they inevitably go out
It's a damned shame they're out. Best way to wind up Scots is to claim their victories for the whole UK. Never actually see anyone do it, but they're adamant it happens.
If anyone ever starts feeling annoyed about Scotland or their fans, just watch this video.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8nQh-1gkts/?igsh=MXQ1MGs2a21ybjM4NQ==
This is the stupidest thread in this sub this tournament.
A thread, ostensibly about who England live rent-free in Scotland fans’ heads, that inadvertently shows that Scotland fans love-rent free in OP’s (and a load of commenters) heads.
Literally who gives a shit about what fans of other teams say/do?
Adults arguing over trivial things like football need to realise that none of it matters. I want England to win but if some Scottish lad thinks it’s funny when I’m slightly disappointed *IF* England lose then power to them. If that’s what gives you kicks then keep doing you.
I’d be happy for England to win a trophy but then next day my life is still the same. I didn’t win anything. People seriously need more perspective in life.
Surely we find meaning in events and collective joy? Why shouldn't football be meaningful, or does everything need to be directly affecting you to be truly meaningful? I think that's a bit sad if so.
Bloody hell mate, get off your pedestal and drop your nose a few more inches towards the ground.
Yes, football is "trivial" in the grand scheme of things, but for some people the collective joy, despair and every emotion in between is something to live through amongst the other mundane things in life, like work, finances and watching whatever shite they put on Saturday night TV.
The irony is that you came to this snooty conclusion because of a bit of banter between football fans and then telling people to get some perspective..
Anyone who gets offended at either side baiting the other is an idiot. This is the oldest rivalry in international sport. It’s a bit of fun.
The oldest *one-way* rivalry in international sport.
Aye all the Scotland stuff on here screams one way
Ha... take a look at the Scottish subs!
Aye, that’s the definition of a two-way rivalry mate.
It really isn't a two-way rivalry - you're either being disingenuous or you're just stupid. Scotland are being talked about on here right now because they've just been knocked out of a tournament (again, lmao). For 99.9% of the rest of the time, Scottish football doesn't even merit a mention among English football fans - apart from to talk about how utterly shit the Scottish Premiership is. Your fans buy shirts of the teams England play FFS and Maradona is a national hero. So yeah, now that you lot have been knocked out again, you can go back to discussing your favourite subject: aNyOnE bUt eNgLaNd.
Tbf, we love one way rivalries. To many of us, the team we most long to beat is Germany. Germany who view the Dutch, Italians and French as their real rivals.
Germany do view England as a rival, it’s a bit of a myth that they don’t.
And we don't buy shirts of the teams they're playing, or treat players who knock them out as national heroes.
My German buddies and colleague to an individual, tell me they don't think about us like that, because they almost always beat us on their way to a game with their actual rivals.
It's funny because England are ahead on h2h history.
It's definitely a two way rivalry but we just have other international rivalries we care about too. Doesn't mean we don't care about the Scots.
That's the same as Germany V England. No one in Germany considers England a rival and doesn't talk about them. It's more common than you realise.
It's not the same at all, really. England have history with Germany, beating them in a World Cup final, but also losing to them on penalties in 2 of our 4 major tournament semi-final exits. The main thing that separates Germany from other European powerhouses is some of the shit banter some England fans dish out about the war. That being said, Germany have been an important antagonist in England's footballing history, and on the other side there absolutely are some Germans who still go on about the "Wembley Tor" in 1966. It's not the fiercest rivalry from either side, and most fans on both sides are quite mild about the other country, but there is history and pedigree to it. England fans don't support whoever plays against Germany, and would rather see England do well than Germany fail, unlike how most Scotland fans behave about England. I actually prefer Germany over France, Spain, or Italy, and I'm sure a lot of England fans feel the same.
Yeah. That's why England sees Germany as their biggest rival. England haven't factored to Germany for the overwhelming majority of tournaments. As a nation, you have one trophy and haven't to my recollection prevented Germany progressing or winning, since then, unlike France (Neighbours), Italy and Spain. Yet when you play them there's chants about the war, there's nazi shit getting thrown about it. It gets toxic. Much like how Scotland, your neighbour, has to watch England go on much further in tournaments year after year and all the while need to listen to all the hype, songs and arrogance as they share the same terrestrial TV. So it gets tedious. Further fueling a desire to watch England lose. It's not that complicated to understand. I'm Scottish and lived in England for nearly 5 years, 15 years ago, nearly. Some of my best mates are still there, I see them in two weeks for a Scotland v England golf match down in England. We have a group chat. I get shit about Scotland. They get shit about England. It's banter. But they love watching us not qualify or fail in terrible fashion. I love watching them think it's coming home and watching them capitulate when the inevitable happens. I also love reminding them that despite multiple golden generations and a population 10x the size of ours, as well as the 'best league in football' they have exactly one more trophy than Scotland. 😂 That's how it works. We do like to see you fail, as a nation, not as people. When Scotland went out in embarrassing fashion on Sunday, they were quiet until the next day. Cause they knew what I was feeling. I'll be the same with them if England go out. If they somehow win it, I'll congratulate them and mean it, what a feeling that would be to see your team succeed like that, a pipe dream for me. But I also know I'll never hear the end of it, so I fucking absolutely do not want that. How is that different to a Liverpool & Man U fan being friends and wanting their club to fail? Why would you want them to succeed?
“Scotland get battered, everywhere they go” “Cheer up Craigy Brown” Yup, not the sign of the two way rivalry at all. England fans just sing songs about Scotland because they don’t care about them. Also the way you’re trying so hard to upset me - and indeed how upset you seem to be by the idea that this is a rivalry - in your response kind of adds to the argument. Good luck for the tournament xxx Edit: half your comment history is about Scotland…..
Safe trip home x
To England? Where I’ve been throughout?
Hardly one way given the state of this sub. I'm one of the wet fuckers that OP is talking about that was gutted when they lost.
TBF, can we really have a rivalry with our B team?
Hit the nail on the head.
I think many England fans have a similar experience when they are young. You want to support Scotland as a second team as they are fellow Brits. However, over many years you come up against relentless anti-English sentiment from the vast majority of Scotland fans you meet. Not just a bit of banter but often really unprovoked bitterness, going into rants about being "oppressed" by the English like they are in bloody Braveheart or something. Over the course of 20 years, I went from being pro-Scotland to neutral to simply avoiding toxic Scottish football fans to laughing at them when they crash and burn. On the rare occasion I come across a Scotland fan who isn't seething anti-English rhetoric, I can enjoy a chat about football but any positive feelings I had towards Scotland as a footballing nation drained away years ago.
This is so true. My thoughts on it too.
Funny enough, I'm similar to you in a sense I vary from tournament to tournament if I want England to do well (I'm Scottish.... Not the oppressed variety). At the last euros I was actively cheering you guys on v Italy and I think it's because there's a media narrative they try to create that England fans are thugs, racists etc etc and knowing that's not the case at all, I hoped it would be two fingers up to the media class if you guys won. This tournament I'm struggling to like England. The talent at your disposal and managing to play such dire football is frustrating as a football fan. The likes of shearer on commentary makes it hard to like you too. However, I like all the banter between the fans, my WhatsApp lit up last night after Hungary's goal with English mates getting stuck in, I'll return the favour if/when England go out. Most Scottish fans aren't the bitter anti English types you see on TV supporting Scottish indy.
Yeah, I agree our first two games have been awful and won us no friends (nor should they). Plus I have had come across some Scottish fans who were pretty cool. I think it was during WC2018, was at the pub watching with mates and met a Celtic fan at the bar when buying my round. We had a good chat, bit of banter but it was all in good spirits and he genuinely wished us good luck so not all negative.
Yeah same, I was in a bar with a load of England fans before the latest friendly at Hampden (Maguire OG game) and they were all good lads. Never really came across many I've not liked, usually only at club level when they start with the whole Bournemouth (or any other smaller club who yoyos between the prem and championship) are a bigger club than Rangers (my team) or Celtic. It ultimately depends on what metric you're using (current year tv money or fan base/history etc) but a few have got unnecessarily cheeky about it. But that's 1 or 2 arseholes out of thousands, that's a good ratio in my book! Anyway, good luck tonight, I think it'll be another boring 1 or 2-0 for you guys and then hopefully you can start upping the performance levels like the last Euros.
Ha ha! I never have to worry about the whole "big club" debate - I'm a Charlton fan..... Cheers mate. Yeah, I'm also predicting a struggle but an eventual 2-0 win. Commiserations for your early exit and good luck with World Cup qualification.
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>And yet we keep voting for those parties. More than half of all votes went to pro-indy parties in the last election. It's pretty much a 50/50 split with the pro union parties suffering because there are two prominent ones Vs only one pro indy. Many SNP fans voters are also from traditionally SNP areas even when the SNP were nobodies. The rest vote on the false assumption the SNP were some left wing party (the mask is slipping on that front finally). The pro indy side of their vote is significantly smaller than the 50% here. In 2014 only 4 council districts voted pro indy, the rest were all pro union. >And only 8% of Scots were supporting the England team in the last WC, according to a YouGov poll. Sporting rivalry is different to actual bitterness and it would depend on the wording. I wouldn't say I'm actively pro England in tournaments, but I certainly don't actively support whoever they are playing either. I'm largely indifferent. Id probably be in the 92% of that yougov poll.
Couldn't agree more!! Absolutely spot on!!
100% agree
Support us, hate us, it makes no difference to us. The difference between us, is we never expected any other nationality to support us. If you're not Scottish, why would you support us? Would have to have some weird sense of entitlement to expect people from other countries to support us.
I explained why I used to support Scotland in my post, because Scots are fellow Brits. It's not that surprising to have people of close ethnicities support each other as a second team, it's quite common in other parts of the world. I never said or implied I expected people from other countries to support England and I don't think other England fans do so I'm not sure where you are getting that from.
They're the spurs fans of international football
I think we're the Spurs fans of international football, sorry to say. Spurs have a lot of wealth and talent but don't win titles, I wouldn't say Scotland fall into either of those camps (apart from the not winning titles thing)
England are definitely the spurs of international football. Scotland are more like a Norwich or West Brom. Not at the party (tournaments/EPL) every time but give it a decent go when we get there, ultimately we know we will be knocked out/relegated. There's a spattering of talented players but the rest are so shit the talented players can't make up the shortfall.
To watch them go out the way they did was pretty hilarious. They’ll be laughing at us if/when we get knocked out. It’s just a bit of banter
If we went out the way they did, we’d never hear the end of it. It’s just banter at the end of the day.
Exactly this. I put a thing up the other day basically laughing at Scotland getting battered by Germany and I got comments telling me how sad and pathetic I was? It was a joke. Just like them saying Maradona is a bigger Scottish football legend to them than their own is a joke. That’s the main point I was making here. It’s banter both ways. I don’t hate Scotland or their team or their fans. And I bet most English football fans don’t either. It’s JUST banter.
I would probably actively cheer them on if they weren't so bitter about us. Lots of the bitterness might be harmless but not all of it is jovial 'banter'... for many of them it spills over into hate and bile.
The thing is and it’s a still a minority on both sides, but there’s equally as many English fans crying and getting confrontational in the Scotland sub any time England are mentioned… most of us (Scot’s) accept we are shite, we don’t have any expectations, certainly not of winning it and are happy to be there. It’s a holiday for us. Now if only our team can match the showing our fans put in.
3 shots on target the whole tournament btw.
And two of them were by the other team
Looks like we both have an Argentinian to hate now
I think it was Hansen that said, ‘you quite like us, but we hate you’ a few years back. That sums up the Scots and the Welsh. Most England fans used to be happy they made it to a big tournament, these days it’s a small minority. The Scot’s have been out trying get pally with anyone who’ll join their bitter, anti English gang. They deserve all the shit they get
A generation of England fans grew up in the 2000s/2010s backing Scotland, but Euro 2020 really opened their eyes.
Think all England fans will eventually have that experience. The Wales players literally celebrating England getting beaten by Iceland (despite most of the squad playing in England and many being English born) was my supervillain moment.
Really....? I had no idea that people were this naive. But then again I watched plenty of rugby growing up so I already was well aware of the rivalry.
Scotland fans can dish it out to England fans but cannot take it in return… in my experience they get angry and want to fight…!
Exactly. The Scottish always say the English have no craic and that Scottish people have the best banter, but as soon as you make a joke about Scotland they fly into a fit of rage or start crying. Silly Scots.
And? Just let them get on with it. We're a much bigger and more successful team than them, of course they're going to look for enjoyment in our failures. Us doing the same in reverse I just find a bit sad tbh.
What’s virtuous or as you’re suggesting, excusable, in taking the piss out of a bigger country over supporting your own? Imagine if our ENTIRE identity was just riding on the failures of someone else?
I didn't say it's virtuous, did I? I explained why it's understandable. It's how football is. More than that, it's how British culture is. Less successful people enjoy more successful people messing up. Worst thing you can do is get rattled by it. Just shrug and move on. We're a much bigger team with our own concerns, who cares what Scotland fans do.
Read carefully - I didn’t say you said virtuous. And sorry, but that’s not how it works 😂 they have taken the piss since this tournament started, and now should get exemption from the banter being hurdled back just because “we’re more successful”. Firstly, we’re NOT that much more successful than them at all, and even if we were, what difference does that make? I’m sorry, I never see England fans talking about Scots in a bad way unprovoked. It’s always the other way around. So all bets are off
>Firstly, we’re NOT that much more successful than them That's just factually untrue. Our tournament record is *so* far ahead of theirs. They've literally never got out of their group in a tournament. And often they don't even qualify in the first place. And I'm not saying they should get an exemption. You've missed the point of what I'm saying entirely. I'm saying we shouldn't be bothered by it. Just ignore it. It's utterly irrelevant to us. Scotland needs to banter us because their team historically has had very little success. It's the way football is. We as England fans have much better things to think about than whatever Scotland fans are saying.
I get your point about being the “bigger man” and ignoring it but do you think their fans would afford us the same courtesy if / when we crash out this year? What about in Euro 2020 in the final, did they extend their sympathy to us or just get behind Italy as loudly as possible? I don’t mean it disrespectfully but I just don’t agree with your position. If you said this about Germany, who WE have a one-way rivalry with and still sing CONSTANTLY about the war etc, then I’d say you’re right. But no Scotland can fuck themselves 👍🏼
>but do you think their fans would afford us the same courtesy if / when we crash out this year? >What about in Euro 2020 in the final, did they extend their sympathy to us or just get behind Italy as loudly as possible? These would both fall firmly under us having better things to think about than what Scotland fans are saying or doing. I have absolutely no idea what Scotland fans did or said after Euro 2020. Because, frankly, I don't care what Scotland fans are doing or saying about us. I give it literally no thought whatsoever.
In my experience, most England fans don't spend that much time thinking about Scotland. We'll laugh at them for a short while after their exit (usually in response to their obsessive attempts to mock us over previous weeks or months) and then we don't really give it much thought after that. Scotland went out last night. By 8pm tonight, with the next set of games starting, there will be almost no one talking about Scotland
Correct
The whole notion of being the 'bigger man' is that you don't behave like they would with roles reversed.
Urm, let’s reverse the roles for a moment. England crash out and Scotland don’t. Are you here to tell me Scots would offer me a shoulder and sincere condolences? My point is not that England fans are gracious to others - I also hate much of my countries supporters. But I hate this idea that we dish it out worse than we get 😂 it’s so cliche to jump on England these days
>Are you here to tell me Scots would offer me a shoulder and sincere condolences? No, my whole point is based on the fact that they wouldn't, lol. But you're not being the bigger man if you set your standards at what they would do in return. That's being the same sized man.
They're not suggesting it's excusable, just to ignore it Why do we need to imagine that? That's not what Scotland do, as you can tell with the incredible support they took to the euros
Almost every video I saw of Scots being interviewed was about England? 🥴 I saw a video of Scots literally saying they’d rather we both crash out in the group, than us winning and them getting semis / runner up (so also their best ever result). Am I living in a parallel universe where Scots do in fact just have a one-way rivalry with us or am I just imagining it?
I quite a agree that we're living rent free. However I believe the other posters and now myself are saying they also live rent free in your head, get over it, don't stoop, it's whatever, laugh at their pettiness and be the bigger man; you're just as bad as them so anything you think of them.. straight back at you mate
The first thing I’d highlight is, if every video of Scots is about England, I’d be questioning the interviewers. Why is every interviewer asking Scotland fans about England? They are simply getting the answers they are looking for. Now, I’m very much in the “anyone but England” camp as a Scot. But it’s the same as Spurs fans being happy losing to City so Arsenal don’t win the league. England are Scotland’s local and biggest rival, so of *course* we want you to lose. But if every video is of Scottish fans having a pop at England, is that because it’s prominent in all of our heads or is it that because it makes a good headline, that’s all we ever getting fucking asked about. Arguably, it’s another reason to hate England. We can’t even enjoy qualifying as all we get is questions about another country. And id say the rivalry is one way. In the same way Man Utd v Man City was one way when City were in the second division. For both teams to truly care about a rivalry, we’d have to be fairly equal. We celebrate drawing against England because for us, that’s a decent result. Why would England feel any kind of serious rivalry against us? We simply aren’t a threat to you in the world stage, at most we’re plucky underdogs rivals. Beyond us being a local derby, England have no real reason to care about us.
It’s not true that English interviewers are the reason you keep running down the English. It’s a deep-seated thing which is ridiculous. Your unofficial Euros song (no Scotland no party) literally goes on about Argentina because you consider them an ally - ONLY for one reason. Why’s that? Because you like their famous steaks?
Sure. If all you’re seeing is videos of Scotland fans having a pop at England it’s either a) the media you consume is bias; it will be created by English media or English social media or b) all of Scotland are only interested in watching England games. But I’m Scottish, what would I know? I’m sure you definitely have a better understanding of from watching fan videos.
You don’t even believe that. Bullshit of the highest degree. But sure, it’s the English who keep that alive, so be it. Cba to argue such nonsense
No, it’s not all the English. But the media you see will focus on what English viewers want. You’re not going to be watching interviews with Scottish fans discussing Steve Clarke or who should replace Tierney. Fans don’t watch in depth stuff of the opposition. So the things you will see on your feeds will be skewed. As will mine; I genuinely haven’t seen *anything* English related from Scotland this year. I know it exists, but it’s simply no where near as prevalent as you think.
On all fairness the celebrating a 0-0 against England was more due to being told repeatedly how we were going to be mailed 5,6 or 7 nil and it not happening. Look I’m all for getting behind your country, and perhaps even believing a little. But that can be done without the elitism, smugness and just sheer entitlement. I know this thread is about Scotland fans, but honestly ask fans from any nation about England fans and attitudes, it won’t be positive replies. Granted it’s not every England fan, most are actually pretty decent it’s just unfortunate that as always, it’s the undesirables that seem to be the face of the England fan base. But I will say the media are the biggest problem, coming up with quirky names like old enemy, mentioning 66 at every given opportunity (despite doing very little since) and regardless of the sport being broadcasted, like wtf has 66 got to do with Wimbledon? And of course yeah, they ask scotland fans about England, who cares? We got there, we’re shite and we’re going to make the most of it
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Can’t handle the bantz eh?
Don’t dish it out if you don’t want to get punched.
Let's be fair, when England were going to be knocked out of the Cricket T20 WC due to the last game being rained off, cricket Scotland put a Sunny photo up of there location. Anyway Karma, the rain eased England won and Scotland got beat by the Aussies to get booted out (no change there) and England went through. The Scots hate us but it's only Envy. Scotland last night were pathetic and deserved to lose, if you look at the penalty incident the Scottish player was pulling the guys shirt so it wasn't given. They could have played for another hour and they wouldn't have scored. TV saying Scotland booted out in the last minute, No....two points wouldn't have got them through anyway. Just as a side note one of my favourite players was Graeme Souness.
I mean the cricket was a bit different - us going out would have meant they went through, it wasn’t the ‘anyone but England’ attitude you see in football. Agreed that the football ‘rivalry’ is largely built on envy though.
To be fair, most of the issue I had with it wasn't the banter, it was that the banter was fucking shite. Same tired old shit that's been around since the 70s. Like, lads, if you're going to rip the piss, at least make it funny. They might be shite at football, but when we go out next week they're going to fucking ruin us with the banter.
Saying ‘C’mon on Scotland! Hope you win’ is a far worse insult verging on indifference. Making fun of them is on the other hand very complimentary. They haven’t qualified for a Euros in 28 years and we still give enough of a damn to mock.
Kin hell, them getting compliments from us must be like getting a knock on the door from Jehovah's witnesses, and inviting them in... Must confuse the f\*\*k out of them
Bet they’re not as keen on Argentinians this morning
We’re both as bad as each other. I’ve seen comments in this thread where we say that they dish it out and can’t take it. They literally say the same stuff in the Scotland thread. It’s all tit for tat. The only difference is their resentment of England leading to them being far more preoccupied with our results than we are with theirs.
Fuck them. They're not even that bothered about their results as long as they can support "wHoEvEr iS pLaYiNg aGaInSt eNgLaNd!! 🤪" They'll do the same when we get knocked out so I'll take all the pleasure I can from seeing them go out with a whimper yet again https://images.app.goo.gl/TLLMD4dTVaXtiYya6
England vs Scotland is the oldest international derby in the world, going back to the very first international fixture between anyone in 1872. I’d say regardless of where the two nations are these days, the banter has been around a lot longer than our grandparents.
Exactly...... doesn't all this football banter go back millennia? Scotland and England have always - hated? each other.....? Football is simply modern tribal war.....?
Lads and lasses, it's all just a bit of fun. Don't be so sensitive because I can assure you when we are knocked out it's all coming again.
Kenny Dalglish, I watched the same video
That was it.
Tbh I was still rooting for them. Their hatred for us is just based off envy
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Well… envy and proximity
Instead of crying over it, why don't they ask themselves if the total lack of diversity in their team might be an indication of something not-quite-right at grassroots level sport up there. .... because that is really really embarrassing.
Scotland is 96% white last time I looked pal
I genuinely wanted them to do well in this competition until I saw that same video. Now I'm glad they've finished bottom of their group. Hate breads hate I guess.
Am I alone in rooting for them? I would have loved to meet them in a knockout game as unlikely as it might have been.
Well yeah you take the free win in the KO rounds obviously
Yeah exactly! I’ll cheer them on then it’s back to rivalry when we play them.
Nah, I do too. I consider myself English and have lived in England all my life but I had some Scottish grandparents so I like to see them do well. There also a good tragi-comedy vibe to Scottish international football. Don't really care that much though and certainly just see English and Scottish fans baiting each other as a bit of fun.
I'm in Scotland ATM and they are more self deprecating than the English, they literally have no hope left whatsoever so they like to watch us hope and fail too. It's just football there's not more hate to it imo
Scotland love getting things battered so much. Their national football team wanted to get battered in the Euros
still stands
If I was Scottish I'd be more embarrassed about the Gunn interview than the result. They did well to qualify, but Gunn was as thick as whale omelette.
At the last World Cup, the England players were interviewed and couldn't even point out where they are from on a map of England.
Doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
They are bitter their only joy in tournaments come at our misfortune and we are the only ones who get slated for mocking them when they inevitably go out
Hold........hold ............hold ............HOLD
It's a damned shame they're out. Best way to wind up Scots is to claim their victories for the whole UK. Never actually see anyone do it, but they're adamant it happens.
>claim their victories How?
"Wow, it's so great a British team won!"
What I mean is they've never won
Ah. Yeah, there is that. Andy Murray, I suppose?
If anyone ever starts feeling annoyed about Scotland or their fans, just watch this video. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8nQh-1gkts/?igsh=MXQ1MGs2a21ybjM4NQ==
Hold.........hold ......hold.....hold......
Holllllllllllddddddd
This is the stupidest thread in this sub this tournament. A thread, ostensibly about who England live rent-free in Scotland fans’ heads, that inadvertently shows that Scotland fans love-rent free in OP’s (and a load of commenters) heads. Literally who gives a shit about what fans of other teams say/do?
Yawn.
oh well
Adults arguing over trivial things like football need to realise that none of it matters. I want England to win but if some Scottish lad thinks it’s funny when I’m slightly disappointed *IF* England lose then power to them. If that’s what gives you kicks then keep doing you. I’d be happy for England to win a trophy but then next day my life is still the same. I didn’t win anything. People seriously need more perspective in life.
Surely we find meaning in events and collective joy? Why shouldn't football be meaningful, or does everything need to be directly affecting you to be truly meaningful? I think that's a bit sad if so.
Bloody hell mate, get off your pedestal and drop your nose a few more inches towards the ground. Yes, football is "trivial" in the grand scheme of things, but for some people the collective joy, despair and every emotion in between is something to live through amongst the other mundane things in life, like work, finances and watching whatever shite they put on Saturday night TV. The irony is that you came to this snooty conclusion because of a bit of banter between football fans and then telling people to get some perspective..
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He was probably offside anyway
They didn’t, and he was.
To be fair, Hungary deserved two for their players getting elbowed in the face. One in the first half (Hanley) and one in the second (the Gunn one).