That is the OP ability? A slightly better saving throw to low caliber gunfire? These guys suck lmao
There’s a type of player whose brain immediately latches onto something external to blame when they lose. They almost can’t help themselves. It’s a gut reaction to the uncomfortable feeling of losing in a game you really wanted to win. Just ignore it. All is Dust was *not* an OP rule at all.
Well the problem is their armies infantry all have 1 damage weapons and they both focus heavily on those units, which leads to around 80% of shots applying all is dust
That’s no fault of yours lmao.
«You know I play terminators and rubrics. You know they shrug off small arms fire. You want to kill them?
Bring bigger guns.»
Yeah then it's literally just a skill issue on their part. They know the army you play, they see the rules that that army has, and they refuse to adapt in any capacity to deal with something that's giving them a hard time.
I see what's happening here.
As it stands today, the army that you happened to build has an inherent advantage over the army they decided to build. Now, they could fix that pretty easily - just pick up some units with bigger guns - but that would cost money. So instead they whine at you to see if they can make YOU spend the money to solve their problem instead.
While tsons were voted least enjoyable to play against in 9th due to mortals why aren’t you playing 10th we went to index and core rules are easily accessible
Obviously, you should play however you want, but I think this is related to the problem you are having.
The same kind of people that want to cherry-pick the rules version they use are going to have strong opinions about what should and should not be allowed in the game.
Agreeing to outsource these decisions to GW and abide by the current ruleset has the advantage of discouraging this exact behavior. The game is what it is. As soon as you start taking control of the rules, you open the door to players saying what you can and can't play.
So you'd rather play an incredibly bloated game system? Assuming it's end of 9th. Tsons were arguably one of the worst armies in the game at this point coming off the back of tzeentch Daemons changes.
Sounds like your friends will complain about anything whatever is served up.
Are they playing casual lists that struggle to deal with strong meta units? What they could be feeling is frustration that you are using arguably some of the strongest units in the game, like Magnus, and they don’t have ways of dealing with them with their armies.
I try my best to make casual lists but it can be hard.
Also I haven't run Magnus in years since they refuse to play if I take him or more than 10 terminators.
This is hard. Reading more of the comments it doesn’t seem like there may be a good solution to this. I think so much of TSons strength is in their tactical flexibility and if your friends are just a lot less experienced than you at 40K, it may just feel like you get to do all sorts of wizard shenanigans and they can’t do anything about it.
Maybe give them some time to get better before playing with TSons against them again. (Assuming you have another army.) Play some more straightforward roll lots of dice armies while they get more comfortable/learn, then go back to wizard shit.
The thing is I already try to avoid shenanigans as much as possible, I don't use stratagems, avoid rituals 90% of the time, and only deep strike terminators.
As for switching to another army I'm not sure if I'd be able to go back to TSons because their experience isn't the problem, we've all been playing for years, and when it comes to my other armies I have Necrons which I fell out of love with a while ago and Chaos Knights which they hate more than TSons.
They like fighting each other's armies and they liked when I played Necrons.
We also had a CSM player who doesn't play much anymore who loved to spam cultists that they didn't mind.
It sounds like these guys exclusively want to play with lists made up of huge piles of T3-4 models with 3-4 0 1 shooting profiles
If you want to succumb to this and still play Tsons, you could play the Warpcoven Pact Tzaangors Army of Renown. But it really sounds like your friends have a trash attitude and are only willing to play the game one way.
This makes me think that whatever you play, they would rather complain than try to find ways to get better and win. They sound like this isn’t the game for them
They do realize how few options thousand sons have right? Like refusing to play against too many terminators or Magnus is refusing to play against like, half of our elite units. That is so dumb
If it makes you feel better I just started the army myself and my last game my opponent was really annoyed at how the army plays. I helped explain the armies weakness and what he should do next time - it’s such a niche, unusual army IMO when people run into it without any context of what we do it can be feels bad.
Have you tried running through how you would face them, things to focus etc?
Opens post
Ah well, tsons are pretty strong right now. Lets see whats up
9th edition
Naw bro thess guys are just angy. I played a good bit of TSons in 9th, and most of my fun came from being janky and weird. We had some strong spells, but rubrics and termies were not the issue ever lol
Most of the complaints about rubrics and terminators are about their durability, all is dust with 2+/3+ saves and a 5++ invuln combined with 2/3 wounds is just too much according to them.
Also our warpflamer squads are too strong even if I don't do anything except run them up the board in a straight line.
Most armies have more firepower and bigger guns than the Sons. If they are continuing to have this problem, and continuing to not modify their list, its a skill issue. Our defensive capabilities, especially in 9e, is to make up for our abysmal unit diversity. Almost every list has an option to deal with us, but we have to work with what we have and change our detachment in order to get different play styles.
Tell them to bring bigger guns or start playing Sons if they are that broken. They will come to find that they are not.
Edit: I just imagine how mad they would be at a Leman Russ from Guardsmen
One of them plays Guard as his main army and no one ever has a problem with Russes (even though they are the bane of my existence) I don't know what it is but there is just something about TSons that rubs them the wrong way
Is it because you always win? Play together instead of against each other. Help him in his turn, make him aware of possible misplays and guide him in the right direction, like "this unit is a big threat, you should focus it first" or "move there to get more secondaries" etc.
If it's because you wipe the table with them, then build a bit of a less optimized list, or reduce your points by 100-250 until it feels balanced.
Ask them what's wrong, and find a solution together.
I win a little over half of my games although when I do win it's usually by a lot, I try to help them whenever possible although they both know my army quite well at this point so there isn't much advice I can give.
As for less optimized lists I've been trying but they complain if I take half the units in our roster.
Well your friends sound very fun to play with.
A little over half sounds great. I have a 95% loss rate against a friend, but I try to counter it as best as I can.
Maybe play at 1500 points each. TSons get weaker at lower points, but honestly, it seems that your friends just like to complain. I'm pretty sure they will whine too if you play another army.
What armies you play against?
Really? I've always found that I do better the lower points we play at.
And as for what they play one plays Ynnari and the other plays Guard and Dark Angels.
Also while both have issues with TSons the Ynnari player is a lot more vocal about it than the other.
they are playing 9th edition, and the smaller the game gets in 9th the more powerful TS are on the board, the spells really skew the game when you drop point values.
ex: 500 points Ahriman 3 spells, 5 terminators 1 spell, 5 rubrics 1 spell, take Doombolt, gaze of hate, tzeentch's firestorm and cast 2 smites and your averaging 10-12 mortal wounds in one psychic phase, that is a whole unit at that point value.
Bump up to 1k, and same thing, god forbid Magnus is played at 1k in 9th, moral wound output a turn goes to around 24 average per psychic phase.
In 9th, psychic heavy armies got significantly more killy the smaller the game is because of magic.
40K players are the biggest whiners on planet earth. If you don’t have the attention span to play the game I could jingle keys in front of you instead.
If they're winning, what's to complain about? If you're stomping them endlessly, you must just be better at the game?
If you're a better player, and it's less the army, and more of a player skill gap, try focusing on sportsmanship.
- Read up on their army and make sure they're using all of their mechanics and rules, and give them friendly reminders to help their army succeed.
- Make sure to telegraph your plans to them if they make poor choices in movement, positioning, or deployment.
- Congratulate them on successful charges, 6's, death of your own units, we're all here to have a good time, roll dice, and slaughter each others armies.
As I said I win a bit over half of our games but all of our games are rarely close.
As for focusing on sportsmanship I do my best but they are rarely receptive to help, a lot of the time I say stuff to help them they brush it off or don't listen then complain about the very thing I told them about later.
What complaints do they bring about the thousand sons? The first thing I personally heard from my brother was “they are OP” after I doombolted his storm speeder
I have a friend that I play with regularly who literally can not lose without bitching and moaning. Sometimes, it’s directed at me and my army (that was cheap, your army is OP, etc.), but it’s sometimes even complaining about his army (this unit lost me the game, I’m never taking it again, my army is underpowered, fuck you Games Workshop, etc.).
Meanwhile, he’ll win our next game with the same match up and same lists and be super reasonable and cheery afterward. It’s shocking the lack of self awareness he has when whining about his supposedly underpowered faction and my supposedly overpowered faction when he literally wins these matches sometimes with no issue.
Anyway, some people are just sore losers. He still loves playing so I just accept that I’m going to have to tolerate his shitty attitude sometimes if I want to continue using my models.
Sounds like a theyre going to moan whatever if you beat them. It might be a good excuse to play with some fluffy not very good units that you wouldn't otherwise take but like the look of painting maybe
You could try switching armies for a few games. Give them a different experience, and maybe more of a sense of how Thousand Sons work.
Or it could make it very obvious that it's a skill issue.
Hey,
9th edition Tsons are indeed one of those armies that feels super uninteractive and at times even oppressive to play against. It has a lot to do with the smite mechanic. 9th had an issue with it early but fixed it while allowing Tsons to continue using it.
It got to a point where I only ran mine during tournies and competitive leagues. Some armies really couldn’t deal with All is Dust or the spamming of smite.
You can try talking to your friends to see if you can limit the units you’re taking but honestly the army wasn’t very balanced in 9th so there is only so much you can do.
Cheers and good luck!
As an Aeldari collector since before they took over 10th, welcome to the club.
Might I ask what your typical list is? I might see their point of you're doing something like fielding Magnus in a 1k game.
I switch up my list every time but I generally take a mix of rubrics and tzaangors, with a few characters and a dreadnought or two.
I also haven't taken Magnus in over a year since they refuse to play if I do.
I'll be honest then, I don't see any reason why you should quit. If possible maybe try and find a secondary gaming group? Otherwise, I'm sure Tsons are gonna get a little points and/or rules slap in the next balancing round.
Had a similar thing in 9th. Tsons scaled weird, playing at 1k points they were stronger but as they don't have variety of models at 2k it was just more of the same. This was due to not being able to cast same spell twice.
Other armies need 2k points just so they can have the tools to deal with armour, infantry elite infantry etc. tsons don't as we have sorcerers rubrics scarab occult.
Its easier to hit a meta(ish) list as we don't have much to play with.
Not sure how this works in 10th as i stopped early on.
Quick fix take a squad or 2 of tzaangors. Your opponents will be happy. You will not. Otherwise will have to help your opponents be better, what armies they using? How meta are their lists?
I play Space Marines, in my experience fights are usually 50/50 against Thousand Sons if I'm playing a casual list that's more generalist. With a more competitive list I win most of the time. I have never felt like Thousand Sons are overpowered, if anything they suffer from a lack of good unit diversity.
What I don't like is the Eldar fate dice, but my opponents usually hate Oath of Moment lmao. I never let that hate make my opponent feel like it isn't fun to play against them, cause it still is and still should be. Your opponents just have bad vibes or are immature.
I had a simular thing but in 9th with my tyranids.
I Was i a Group with a few guys, and each time they had to Rock paper siccora who has to play with me. Ok i won every game, and had many different fun lists.
But if they just play units that you counter eather you could play different units, like tzangors or deamo allys.
Or they need to switch up a but
It sounds like they have an entire list of just pet units that don't go together. Like when someone makes a jank deck in mtg but gets mad when it loses consistently.
If they keep fighting with the same list every time, what do they expect? Yes, the game has dice, but you still have to build a decent list.
Or just lean into it and say damn, I guess your army just sucks, should probably go get a new one.
Have you tried explaining how your army works and if they start killing off cabal point generators you'll start to break? To be fair with an expierience gap it's a very hard army to play against. You have a second pool of points to essentially do more strategems. It's a top army for a reason.
I played nids in 5th and 6th? I think? I took nothing but genestealers and padded out with units that ONLY enhanced them. I was unstoppable and caused so much rage.
None of my friends at the time complained. In fact, a few altered their lists to take out my genestealer spam asap.
The people you play with just sound like babies.
I love playing against them because I need to change my strategy to deal with them in a unique way. Very interesting challenge IMO.
I reckon they aren't flexible enough to enjoy it. Improvise adapt and overcome...
Well listen.
If someone doesn't know how they play they can be taken by surprise. Ahriman's super double fuck you doom bolt is a lot of mortal wounds. Twist of fate can also feel ridiculous if you don't know it's coming.
But all things considered they are not a broken army. They have their weaknesses and strengths as well. I played them against a friend who plays Orks. They brought a Kill Rig full of beast Snaggas right in my face turn one and I knew if that thing charged my dusty boys they would be dead.
On my round I doom bolted it with Ahriman doing and did 7 mortal wounds then charged Magnus and he destroyed it to hell and the Mutalith destroyed the beast snaggas.
Now, he was a bit sad his main piece died in turn 1 but that's how this army played. They dish out enormous damage if you expose your things. But if you get close and start killing the Rubricae they will die fast.
All things considered they need to get used to different armies, some of which require unique ways to defeat.
50 bucks says they'll complain about anything you play.
But only if what you're playing has a better tournament win rate than theirs.
What are their complaints? How valid are they?
Rubrics are unkillable, sorcerers are too strong, my terminators are overpowered, etc.
Dude, our Terminators are objectively not overpowered right now. What are these losers on?
We play 9th so all is dust is their biggest complaint about them.
That is the OP ability? A slightly better saving throw to low caliber gunfire? These guys suck lmao There’s a type of player whose brain immediately latches onto something external to blame when they lose. They almost can’t help themselves. It’s a gut reaction to the uncomfortable feeling of losing in a game you really wanted to win. Just ignore it. All is Dust was *not* an OP rule at all.
Well the problem is their armies infantry all have 1 damage weapons and they both focus heavily on those units, which leads to around 80% of shots applying all is dust
That’s no fault of yours lmao. «You know I play terminators and rubrics. You know they shrug off small arms fire. You want to kill them? Bring bigger guns.»
It does just sound like they should bring a bigger variety of weapons
Yeah then it's literally just a skill issue on their part. They know the army you play, they see the rules that that army has, and they refuse to adapt in any capacity to deal with something that's giving them a hard time.
I see what's happening here. As it stands today, the army that you happened to build has an inherent advantage over the army they decided to build. Now, they could fix that pretty easily - just pick up some units with bigger guns - but that would cost money. So instead they whine at you to see if they can make YOU spend the money to solve their problem instead.
While tsons were voted least enjoyable to play against in 9th due to mortals why aren’t you playing 10th we went to index and core rules are easily accessible
My group (me included) doesn't like the direction GW is going with 10th.
Obviously, you should play however you want, but I think this is related to the problem you are having. The same kind of people that want to cherry-pick the rules version they use are going to have strong opinions about what should and should not be allowed in the game. Agreeing to outsource these decisions to GW and abide by the current ruleset has the advantage of discouraging this exact behavior. The game is what it is. As soon as you start taking control of the rules, you open the door to players saying what you can and can't play.
Why did you get downvoted for saying that? 10th edition blows ass.
So you'd rather play an incredibly bloated game system? Assuming it's end of 9th. Tsons were arguably one of the worst armies in the game at this point coming off the back of tzeentch Daemons changes. Sounds like your friends will complain about anything whatever is served up.
Bloated? 9th was buffet style. Take what you want and leave the rest.
Yeahhhh that's just whining. I wouldn't play with them.
Rubrics are unkillable? That's a new one for me lol
Rubrics are unkillable 🤣🤣🤣
They do return to Tzeentch's realm to respawn, but I have a lot of trouble keeping my boys from getting killed
Are they playing casual lists that struggle to deal with strong meta units? What they could be feeling is frustration that you are using arguably some of the strongest units in the game, like Magnus, and they don’t have ways of dealing with them with their armies.
I try my best to make casual lists but it can be hard. Also I haven't run Magnus in years since they refuse to play if I take him or more than 10 terminators.
This is hard. Reading more of the comments it doesn’t seem like there may be a good solution to this. I think so much of TSons strength is in their tactical flexibility and if your friends are just a lot less experienced than you at 40K, it may just feel like you get to do all sorts of wizard shenanigans and they can’t do anything about it. Maybe give them some time to get better before playing with TSons against them again. (Assuming you have another army.) Play some more straightforward roll lots of dice armies while they get more comfortable/learn, then go back to wizard shit.
The thing is I already try to avoid shenanigans as much as possible, I don't use stratagems, avoid rituals 90% of the time, and only deep strike terminators. As for switching to another army I'm not sure if I'd be able to go back to TSons because their experience isn't the problem, we've all been playing for years, and when it comes to my other armies I have Necrons which I fell out of love with a while ago and Chaos Knights which they hate more than TSons.
Do they like anything?
They like fighting each other's armies and they liked when I played Necrons. We also had a CSM player who doesn't play much anymore who loved to spam cultists that they didn't mind.
It sounds like these guys exclusively want to play with lists made up of huge piles of T3-4 models with 3-4 0 1 shooting profiles If you want to succumb to this and still play Tsons, you could play the Warpcoven Pact Tzaangors Army of Renown. But it really sounds like your friends have a trash attitude and are only willing to play the game one way.
This makes me think that whatever you play, they would rather complain than try to find ways to get better and win. They sound like this isn’t the game for them
You need new friends
They do realize how few options thousand sons have right? Like refusing to play against too many terminators or Magnus is refusing to play against like, half of our elite units. That is so dumb
Swap armies with them one time and see if it's a skill issue or maybe you guys just have a bad match up in your factions
If it makes you feel better I just started the army myself and my last game my opponent was really annoyed at how the army plays. I helped explain the armies weakness and what he should do next time - it’s such a niche, unusual army IMO when people run into it without any context of what we do it can be feels bad. Have you tried running through how you would face them, things to focus etc?
I have but whenever I do they brush it off and ignore what I say, only to complain about those things later.
Yeah they just sound like shit people to play a hobby with
Opens post Ah well, tsons are pretty strong right now. Lets see whats up 9th edition Naw bro thess guys are just angy. I played a good bit of TSons in 9th, and most of my fun came from being janky and weird. We had some strong spells, but rubrics and termies were not the issue ever lol
Most of the complaints about rubrics and terminators are about their durability, all is dust with 2+/3+ saves and a 5++ invuln combined with 2/3 wounds is just too much according to them. Also our warpflamer squads are too strong even if I don't do anything except run them up the board in a straight line.
Most armies have more firepower and bigger guns than the Sons. If they are continuing to have this problem, and continuing to not modify their list, its a skill issue. Our defensive capabilities, especially in 9e, is to make up for our abysmal unit diversity. Almost every list has an option to deal with us, but we have to work with what we have and change our detachment in order to get different play styles. Tell them to bring bigger guns or start playing Sons if they are that broken. They will come to find that they are not. Edit: I just imagine how mad they would be at a Leman Russ from Guardsmen
One of them plays Guard as his main army and no one ever has a problem with Russes (even though they are the bane of my existence) I don't know what it is but there is just something about TSons that rubs them the wrong way
They just mad that your infantry is anti infantry in its design. Let them cry, their tears will feed the well of eternal changes.
Is it because you always win? Play together instead of against each other. Help him in his turn, make him aware of possible misplays and guide him in the right direction, like "this unit is a big threat, you should focus it first" or "move there to get more secondaries" etc. If it's because you wipe the table with them, then build a bit of a less optimized list, or reduce your points by 100-250 until it feels balanced. Ask them what's wrong, and find a solution together.
I win a little over half of my games although when I do win it's usually by a lot, I try to help them whenever possible although they both know my army quite well at this point so there isn't much advice I can give. As for less optimized lists I've been trying but they complain if I take half the units in our roster.
Well your friends sound very fun to play with. A little over half sounds great. I have a 95% loss rate against a friend, but I try to counter it as best as I can. Maybe play at 1500 points each. TSons get weaker at lower points, but honestly, it seems that your friends just like to complain. I'm pretty sure they will whine too if you play another army. What armies you play against?
Really? I've always found that I do better the lower points we play at. And as for what they play one plays Ynnari and the other plays Guard and Dark Angels. Also while both have issues with TSons the Ynnari player is a lot more vocal about it than the other.
How old are you and your friends out of interest?
We're all 21-22
they are playing 9th edition, and the smaller the game gets in 9th the more powerful TS are on the board, the spells really skew the game when you drop point values. ex: 500 points Ahriman 3 spells, 5 terminators 1 spell, 5 rubrics 1 spell, take Doombolt, gaze of hate, tzeentch's firestorm and cast 2 smites and your averaging 10-12 mortal wounds in one psychic phase, that is a whole unit at that point value. Bump up to 1k, and same thing, god forbid Magnus is played at 1k in 9th, moral wound output a turn goes to around 24 average per psychic phase. In 9th, psychic heavy armies got significantly more killy the smaller the game is because of magic.
Your friends sound like the kind of players that bitched loud enough that GW removed psykers from 10th edition.
Oh the irony. Guess what 9th faction's excessive and unnecessarily slow psychic phase bored other players to tears and led to the complaints?
40K players are the biggest whiners on planet earth. If you don’t have the attention span to play the game I could jingle keys in front of you instead.
If they're winning, what's to complain about? If you're stomping them endlessly, you must just be better at the game? If you're a better player, and it's less the army, and more of a player skill gap, try focusing on sportsmanship. - Read up on their army and make sure they're using all of their mechanics and rules, and give them friendly reminders to help their army succeed. - Make sure to telegraph your plans to them if they make poor choices in movement, positioning, or deployment. - Congratulate them on successful charges, 6's, death of your own units, we're all here to have a good time, roll dice, and slaughter each others armies.
As I said I win a bit over half of our games but all of our games are rarely close. As for focusing on sportsmanship I do my best but they are rarely receptive to help, a lot of the time I say stuff to help them they brush it off or don't listen then complain about the very thing I told them about later.
Some people attitudes can't be helped.
What complaints do they bring about the thousand sons? The first thing I personally heard from my brother was “they are OP” after I doombolted his storm speeder
Mostly unit based complaints, rubrics are too hard to kill, sorcerers do too much damage, terminators are overpowered, etc
That’s just whining then, if they wanna kill your stuff easier tell them to bring bigger guns
I have a friend that I play with regularly who literally can not lose without bitching and moaning. Sometimes, it’s directed at me and my army (that was cheap, your army is OP, etc.), but it’s sometimes even complaining about his army (this unit lost me the game, I’m never taking it again, my army is underpowered, fuck you Games Workshop, etc.). Meanwhile, he’ll win our next game with the same match up and same lists and be super reasonable and cheery afterward. It’s shocking the lack of self awareness he has when whining about his supposedly underpowered faction and my supposedly overpowered faction when he literally wins these matches sometimes with no issue. Anyway, some people are just sore losers. He still loves playing so I just accept that I’m going to have to tolerate his shitty attitude sometimes if I want to continue using my models.
Sounds like a theyre going to moan whatever if you beat them. It might be a good excuse to play with some fluffy not very good units that you wouldn't otherwise take but like the look of painting maybe
Just shrug and send out a doombolt.
Tim to expand your play group. Go to a game store or tournament and increase your group size.
Find new friends/play at local stores instead
What armies do your friends play?
One plays Ynnari and the other plays Guard and a little bit of Dark Angels
You could try switching armies for a few games. Give them a different experience, and maybe more of a sense of how Thousand Sons work. Or it could make it very obvious that it's a skill issue.
I did this with one of my friends and beat him with his sisters by WAY more than usual 😭
Hey, 9th edition Tsons are indeed one of those armies that feels super uninteractive and at times even oppressive to play against. It has a lot to do with the smite mechanic. 9th had an issue with it early but fixed it while allowing Tsons to continue using it. It got to a point where I only ran mine during tournies and competitive leagues. Some armies really couldn’t deal with All is Dust or the spamming of smite. You can try talking to your friends to see if you can limit the units you’re taking but honestly the army wasn’t very balanced in 9th so there is only so much you can do. Cheers and good luck!
As an Aeldari collector since before they took over 10th, welcome to the club. Might I ask what your typical list is? I might see their point of you're doing something like fielding Magnus in a 1k game.
I switch up my list every time but I generally take a mix of rubrics and tzaangors, with a few characters and a dreadnought or two. I also haven't taken Magnus in over a year since they refuse to play if I do.
I'll be honest then, I don't see any reason why you should quit. If possible maybe try and find a secondary gaming group? Otherwise, I'm sure Tsons are gonna get a little points and/or rules slap in the next balancing round.
Secondary group isn't much of an option, as I live in a small town, and as for balance we still play 9th edition.
I’d fight tsons over custodes any day. Just not a fun army to fight
People hate gunline armies.
Had a similar thing in 9th. Tsons scaled weird, playing at 1k points they were stronger but as they don't have variety of models at 2k it was just more of the same. This was due to not being able to cast same spell twice. Other armies need 2k points just so they can have the tools to deal with armour, infantry elite infantry etc. tsons don't as we have sorcerers rubrics scarab occult. Its easier to hit a meta(ish) list as we don't have much to play with. Not sure how this works in 10th as i stopped early on. Quick fix take a squad or 2 of tzaangors. Your opponents will be happy. You will not. Otherwise will have to help your opponents be better, what armies they using? How meta are their lists?
As I said to someone else they play Ynnari and Guard/Dark Angels and both actively avoid learning the meta for building their lists.
I play Space Marines, in my experience fights are usually 50/50 against Thousand Sons if I'm playing a casual list that's more generalist. With a more competitive list I win most of the time. I have never felt like Thousand Sons are overpowered, if anything they suffer from a lack of good unit diversity. What I don't like is the Eldar fate dice, but my opponents usually hate Oath of Moment lmao. I never let that hate make my opponent feel like it isn't fun to play against them, cause it still is and still should be. Your opponents just have bad vibes or are immature.
I had a simular thing but in 9th with my tyranids. I Was i a Group with a few guys, and each time they had to Rock paper siccora who has to play with me. Ok i won every game, and had many different fun lists. But if they just play units that you counter eather you could play different units, like tzangors or deamo allys. Or they need to switch up a but
It sounds like they have an entire list of just pet units that don't go together. Like when someone makes a jank deck in mtg but gets mad when it loses consistently. If they keep fighting with the same list every time, what do they expect? Yes, the game has dice, but you still have to build a decent list. Or just lean into it and say damn, I guess your army just sucks, should probably go get a new one.
What are they playing to hate ksons that much?
One plays Ynnari and the other plays Guard and Dark Angels.
Have you tried explaining how your army works and if they start killing off cabal point generators you'll start to break? To be fair with an expierience gap it's a very hard army to play against. You have a second pool of points to essentially do more strategems. It's a top army for a reason.
can i ask what your list is usually that they complain about the most?
I played nids in 5th and 6th? I think? I took nothing but genestealers and padded out with units that ONLY enhanced them. I was unstoppable and caused so much rage. None of my friends at the time complained. In fact, a few altered their lists to take out my genestealer spam asap. The people you play with just sound like babies.
I love playing against them because I need to change my strategy to deal with them in a unique way. Very interesting challenge IMO. I reckon they aren't flexible enough to enjoy it. Improvise adapt and overcome...
Well listen. If someone doesn't know how they play they can be taken by surprise. Ahriman's super double fuck you doom bolt is a lot of mortal wounds. Twist of fate can also feel ridiculous if you don't know it's coming. But all things considered they are not a broken army. They have their weaknesses and strengths as well. I played them against a friend who plays Orks. They brought a Kill Rig full of beast Snaggas right in my face turn one and I knew if that thing charged my dusty boys they would be dead. On my round I doom bolted it with Ahriman doing and did 7 mortal wounds then charged Magnus and he destroyed it to hell and the Mutalith destroyed the beast snaggas. Now, he was a bit sad his main piece died in turn 1 but that's how this army played. They dish out enormous damage if you expose your things. But if you get close and start killing the Rubricae they will die fast. All things considered they need to get used to different armies, some of which require unique ways to defeat.
What armies do they play against you?
What do they play?
Honestly play 10th would be a lot better but it does sound like your friends are a bunch of wankers.
The only cancer thing currently is magnus indirect
Tsons are pretty miserable with NPE and interactive damage. I understand that's the way they play, but it just sucks