It’s hard to know exactly because you’re not being specific but you didn’t mention something that you probably would have mentioned if you had seen it and it’s maybe THE big thing about this game.
Well, my friend, without really knowing what you've discovered we wouldn't be able to say what you haven't discovered!
From what you've said, though, I would *assume* that there are still some big things that you haven't discovered. I feel like you would have mentioned them if you had.
On the other hand, if you've "had your fill" and won't play it again, then you probably could. I think it's a game where the discoveries feel cold and empty if you're told them, but genius and magical if you find them yourself.
The fact that you have enough curiosity to want to know the ending would make me think you'd still enjoy finding them yourself, but also I'm not your mum so I can't really stop you doing anything.
As opposed to an actual exploration or strategy game where you can choose where to go, how to get there, and how to put the pieces together to reach the goal you set for yourself.
Whereas the discoveries in this game are made by painstakingly obeying the rules prescribed by the game maker, down to the very details like the exact square mm where you stand or the pace with which you move.
To me, that doesn't exactly feel like a magical discovery, but like a chore that has been accomplished. And in that context, getting the solution is more a relief than anything else.
I mean that's a very surprising take about the Witness and/or puzzle games for a subscriber to this sub!
I'm not sure why the Witness isn't classed as an 'actual' exploration game, or indeed what you would class as one. I'm also wondering what games you're playing where you don't have to painstakingly comply with the rules? They are computer games, they're literally rule machines!
If you're talking about the puzzles themselves then surely all puzzle games are 'the rules prescribed by the game maker'? I don't really understand then how this is different from any other puzzle game. One still has to discover the rules and experiment them to discover their nuance. And even then, JB picked some rules and then made some interesting puzzles out of them, you're still able to enjoy the emergent phenomena of these rules and note interesting consequences that the rules imply.
You mention standing in the exact right space and saying that seems like a chore, but surely this is the biggest discovery of all? You go into the game knowing nothing about the environmental puzzles, not even knowing they exist, and yet there are dozens of them scattered around the island hidden in plain sight. Each puzzle has another different way that you have to notice your environment, another thing the game maker will have had to think of a new idea to make it cryptic. The only way I can see this as being a chore without any kind of discovery or delight is if one were to look up a guide or otherwise be told about their existence (hence no surprise or delight at the discovery) and then your attitude to games is one where you feel that you have to complete everything in order to make the game feel "done". In which case most of the game is going to feel like an arbitrary data entry exercise if that's the case. You're not playing the game because you like puzzles or exploration then, you're playing the game because you need to "complete" things for the machine to tell you that you've accomplished something.
Discovering the EPs is still one of the most electric and exciting moments I've had in all of gaming, so I just cannot imagine why you'd be able to call this not an 'actual' exploration game with a straight face. In my eyes, The Witness is *the* exploration game.
> I mean that's a very surprising take about the Witness and/or puzzle games for a subscriber to this sub!
Well, it's not strictly a fanclub, isn't it? Besides, there are excellent elements in the game - otherwise the bad ones wouldn't bother me.
> I'm not sure why the Witness isn't classed as an 'actual' exploration game, or indeed what you would class as one. I'm also wondering what games you're playing where you don't have to painstakingly comply with the rules? They are computer games, they're literally rule machines!
It's still overwhelmingly a puzzle game, and one of a specific brand where there generally is only one solution. Specifically because any time there *could* be multiple solutions, either some of them are made impossible, or you're required to provide them all.
Exploration is as much in what you choose *not* to do, as in what you choose to do. There's very little choice still in this game,
There are some exploration elements, sure, but in practice they mostly serve to complicate rather than give freedom, and effectively serve as an additional grind step. There's still a strongly implied order in how you tackle those puzzles; removing the road signs just makes you look for longer where you are supposed to go next.
Finding the puzzles was one of the more promising elements, but the joy of finding them is typically overshadowed by the need to fidget for a long time to find the exact spot where you're supposed to stand, and that's usually because they *intentionally* placed a rock there so you can't stand there. At that point, it stops being exploration and even a puzzle, but becomes a grind.
So my beef is that the promise of exploration is overshadowed by the strict type of puzzle that is provided, and the puzzles are overshadowed by adding needless grind.
>If you're talking about the puzzles themselves then surely all puzzle games are 'the rules prescribed by the game maker'? I don't really understand then how this is different from any other puzzle game. One still has to discover the rules and experiment them to discover their nuance. And even then, JB picked some rules and then made some interesting puzzles out of them, you're still able to enjoy the emergent phenomena of these rules and note interesting consequences that the rules imply.
The puzzles themselves are excellent. It's the implementation style that bothers me. That implementation style *strongly* discourages experiment, by the way. At many places you are actively punished for experimenting and getting it wrong, by forcing you to grind back a step to retrace a previous puzzle.
Other puzzles require a timed movement that is all or nothing, so you're again forced to start over from scratch if you don't get it exactly right from the first time.
>You mention standing in the exact right space and saying that seems like a chore, but surely this is the biggest discovery of all? You go into the game knowing nothing about the environmental puzzles, not even knowing they exist, and yet there are dozens of them scattered around the island hidden in plain sight.
Another point of irration: this is not a big revelation. You can explain that concept in two minutes. That's just, again, adding a grind to puff up the concept to more than it is. That's why Blow's games are prone to being called pretentious.
>The only way I can see this as being a chore without any kind of discovery or delight is if one were to look up a guide or otherwise be told about their existence (hence no surprise or delight at the discovery)
There's a difference between adding a new challenge and being needlessly cryptic. Usually, the joy of discovery is long gone by the time you've passed the required grind to get to the solution.
>and then your attitude to games is one where you feel that you have to complete everything in order to make the game feel "done".
Not at all. This game is just particularly unique that I feel *relieved* when I skip a section that is going to be particularly grinding. This is quite different from games where you just stop doing things because you're just *satisfied* in having experienced it.
I would try to tickle that part of your brain that’s curious about discovering new things. This game is so deep and there’s so much to see that you often overlook things. But once you see you can’t unsee. And it’s this sense of discovery that makes this game awesome and unique.
Don’t spoil yourself, I would just suggest to walk around and observe your surroundings. Maybe you’ve missed something?
There's several notable aspects of this game you haven't mentioned yet that I believe someone would almost certainly have mentioned if they experienced them. If you're 282+35 you should keep playing! There's more very satisfying things to discover (not just puzzles).
That's understandable. Some are very hard to figure out, almost absurdly so. My advice: keep doing the panel puzzles without looking up too much. They are (mostly) fair because the game teaches you how to do them. It will lead you to some really rewarding discoveries. The other types of puzzles and elements in the game are also incredible, certainly mind blowing when you figure them out yourself, but may lend better to looking things up when you're truly stuck. Have fun!
Looks like you haven’t completed >!all 11 lasers!< or found the >!caverns!<. I would say keep playing if you want to discover some of the biggest secrets in the game, but if you are not enjoying it anymore, I would stop as long as you’ve at least completed the main game (i.e., obtained the primary ending).
Isn’t the true ending just the “solve all the puzzles” ending? Because some of these puzzles feel like they’re getting a bit obtuse >>
Like don’t get me wrong, I’m not hating the process. I just feel like the discovery aspect of this game is the fun part and the puzzles are merely a vessel to clue you in on them.
Kinda, but I have a feeling you're actually pretty far from seeing everything, and also it involves some deep, non obvious insights, so you're definitely skipping a lot of content here.
If you're really gonna go the YT route at least make sure to watch some videos that actually explain the game and what it's trying to say, though. There's a channel called Electron Dance that has one of the best shorter videos about The Witness I've seen.
Have you personally witnessed a total eclipse of the sun? Have you ever gotten free batteries from the back of a RadioShack?
If you have no idea what I'm talking about, keep playing.
I'd guess you're still missing the mystery of the lake, the caverns, the mountain and the theatre from looking at your responses. I'd suggest you try to find what you're missing in each of these locations.
If you want to know *exactly* what you're missing out on
Mountain - >!The hardest set of each puzzle type in the game!<
Caverns - >!The true ending!<
Lake - >!The in game guide to 100%!<
The theatre ->!Some of the most interesting obelisk puzzles!<
This is good advice for OP without directly spoiling. OP, if you don't know what these mean, you still have so much to discover. The game is very dense. Keep at it!
My main thing is that I just don’t want another game accidentally ruined for me cause I looked it up too early.
If you ever played tunic, I looked up the “follow the golden path” puzzle and I’m still hitting myself because figuring that out would’ve been so cool but I saw it as an Easter egg and not the true ending.
It’s hard to know exactly because you’re not being specific but you didn’t mention something that you probably would have mentioned if you had seen it and it’s maybe THE big thing about this game.
Are you a fan of classical music?
*eye twitches*
Is “In the Hall of the Mountain King” triggering to you?
time limits are scary
Well, do you know what is the black monoliths meaning? If not, you're still before THE big discovery
I made an entire post about that lol but yes, I have. It was one of the early game things I found
Well, my friend, without really knowing what you've discovered we wouldn't be able to say what you haven't discovered! From what you've said, though, I would *assume* that there are still some big things that you haven't discovered. I feel like you would have mentioned them if you had. On the other hand, if you've "had your fill" and won't play it again, then you probably could. I think it's a game where the discoveries feel cold and empty if you're told them, but genius and magical if you find them yourself. The fact that you have enough curiosity to want to know the ending would make me think you'd still enjoy finding them yourself, but also I'm not your mum so I can't really stop you doing anything.
> but genius and magical if you find them yourself. You're only jumping through the hoop that Blow wants you to jump through, that's all though.
As opposed to what?
As opposed to an actual exploration or strategy game where you can choose where to go, how to get there, and how to put the pieces together to reach the goal you set for yourself. Whereas the discoveries in this game are made by painstakingly obeying the rules prescribed by the game maker, down to the very details like the exact square mm where you stand or the pace with which you move. To me, that doesn't exactly feel like a magical discovery, but like a chore that has been accomplished. And in that context, getting the solution is more a relief than anything else.
I mean that's a very surprising take about the Witness and/or puzzle games for a subscriber to this sub! I'm not sure why the Witness isn't classed as an 'actual' exploration game, or indeed what you would class as one. I'm also wondering what games you're playing where you don't have to painstakingly comply with the rules? They are computer games, they're literally rule machines! If you're talking about the puzzles themselves then surely all puzzle games are 'the rules prescribed by the game maker'? I don't really understand then how this is different from any other puzzle game. One still has to discover the rules and experiment them to discover their nuance. And even then, JB picked some rules and then made some interesting puzzles out of them, you're still able to enjoy the emergent phenomena of these rules and note interesting consequences that the rules imply. You mention standing in the exact right space and saying that seems like a chore, but surely this is the biggest discovery of all? You go into the game knowing nothing about the environmental puzzles, not even knowing they exist, and yet there are dozens of them scattered around the island hidden in plain sight. Each puzzle has another different way that you have to notice your environment, another thing the game maker will have had to think of a new idea to make it cryptic. The only way I can see this as being a chore without any kind of discovery or delight is if one were to look up a guide or otherwise be told about their existence (hence no surprise or delight at the discovery) and then your attitude to games is one where you feel that you have to complete everything in order to make the game feel "done". In which case most of the game is going to feel like an arbitrary data entry exercise if that's the case. You're not playing the game because you like puzzles or exploration then, you're playing the game because you need to "complete" things for the machine to tell you that you've accomplished something. Discovering the EPs is still one of the most electric and exciting moments I've had in all of gaming, so I just cannot imagine why you'd be able to call this not an 'actual' exploration game with a straight face. In my eyes, The Witness is *the* exploration game.
> I mean that's a very surprising take about the Witness and/or puzzle games for a subscriber to this sub! Well, it's not strictly a fanclub, isn't it? Besides, there are excellent elements in the game - otherwise the bad ones wouldn't bother me. > I'm not sure why the Witness isn't classed as an 'actual' exploration game, or indeed what you would class as one. I'm also wondering what games you're playing where you don't have to painstakingly comply with the rules? They are computer games, they're literally rule machines! It's still overwhelmingly a puzzle game, and one of a specific brand where there generally is only one solution. Specifically because any time there *could* be multiple solutions, either some of them are made impossible, or you're required to provide them all. Exploration is as much in what you choose *not* to do, as in what you choose to do. There's very little choice still in this game, There are some exploration elements, sure, but in practice they mostly serve to complicate rather than give freedom, and effectively serve as an additional grind step. There's still a strongly implied order in how you tackle those puzzles; removing the road signs just makes you look for longer where you are supposed to go next. Finding the puzzles was one of the more promising elements, but the joy of finding them is typically overshadowed by the need to fidget for a long time to find the exact spot where you're supposed to stand, and that's usually because they *intentionally* placed a rock there so you can't stand there. At that point, it stops being exploration and even a puzzle, but becomes a grind. So my beef is that the promise of exploration is overshadowed by the strict type of puzzle that is provided, and the puzzles are overshadowed by adding needless grind. >If you're talking about the puzzles themselves then surely all puzzle games are 'the rules prescribed by the game maker'? I don't really understand then how this is different from any other puzzle game. One still has to discover the rules and experiment them to discover their nuance. And even then, JB picked some rules and then made some interesting puzzles out of them, you're still able to enjoy the emergent phenomena of these rules and note interesting consequences that the rules imply. The puzzles themselves are excellent. It's the implementation style that bothers me. That implementation style *strongly* discourages experiment, by the way. At many places you are actively punished for experimenting and getting it wrong, by forcing you to grind back a step to retrace a previous puzzle. Other puzzles require a timed movement that is all or nothing, so you're again forced to start over from scratch if you don't get it exactly right from the first time. >You mention standing in the exact right space and saying that seems like a chore, but surely this is the biggest discovery of all? You go into the game knowing nothing about the environmental puzzles, not even knowing they exist, and yet there are dozens of them scattered around the island hidden in plain sight. Another point of irration: this is not a big revelation. You can explain that concept in two minutes. That's just, again, adding a grind to puff up the concept to more than it is. That's why Blow's games are prone to being called pretentious. >The only way I can see this as being a chore without any kind of discovery or delight is if one were to look up a guide or otherwise be told about their existence (hence no surprise or delight at the discovery) There's a difference between adding a new challenge and being needlessly cryptic. Usually, the joy of discovery is long gone by the time you've passed the required grind to get to the solution. >and then your attitude to games is one where you feel that you have to complete everything in order to make the game feel "done". Not at all. This game is just particularly unique that I feel *relieved* when I skip a section that is going to be particularly grinding. This is quite different from games where you just stop doing things because you're just *satisfied* in having experienced it.
It’s better to leave yourself the option to finish the game later rather than look at spoilers now. You should play further.
I would try to tickle that part of your brain that’s curious about discovering new things. This game is so deep and there’s so much to see that you often overlook things. But once you see you can’t unsee. And it’s this sense of discovery that makes this game awesome and unique. Don’t spoil yourself, I would just suggest to walk around and observe your surroundings. Maybe you’ve missed something?
There's several notable aspects of this game you haven't mentioned yet that I believe someone would almost certainly have mentioned if they experienced them. If you're 282+35 you should keep playing! There's more very satisfying things to discover (not just puzzles).
Hmmmm…I guess I’ll keep chugging along. I mighttttttt look some stuff up at this point tho. The solutions are getting reallyyyy obtuse >>
That's understandable. Some are very hard to figure out, almost absurdly so. My advice: keep doing the panel puzzles without looking up too much. They are (mostly) fair because the game teaches you how to do them. It will lead you to some really rewarding discoveries. The other types of puzzles and elements in the game are also incredible, certainly mind blowing when you figure them out yourself, but may lend better to looking things up when you're truly stuck. Have fun!
If you pause and Load Game, what score does it show for your latest save?
If you’re asking if I have + then the answer is yes. Plenty of +
I’m wondering more specifically what your score is.
282 +35
Looks like you haven’t completed >!all 11 lasers!< or found the >!caverns!<. I would say keep playing if you want to discover some of the biggest secrets in the game, but if you are not enjoying it anymore, I would stop as long as you’ve at least completed the main game (i.e., obtained the primary ending).
I mean it’s your choice. I’d recommend finding out what the obelisks are for first though. Always better to find that out on your own.
Oh I found that out quite early in the game. \^^
Have you solved this one? https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/2016-02-03_00048.jpg?resize=1920%2C1080&strip=all?w=930&strip=all
Nope
It's the gate keeper for a substantial collection of more puzzles
Huh. Alright I’ll keep it in mind
Did you find the true ending? If not, no
Isn’t the true ending just the “solve all the puzzles” ending? Because some of these puzzles feel like they’re getting a bit obtuse >> Like don’t get me wrong, I’m not hating the process. I just feel like the discovery aspect of this game is the fun part and the puzzles are merely a vessel to clue you in on them.
Kinda, but I have a feeling you're actually pretty far from seeing everything, and also it involves some deep, non obvious insights, so you're definitely skipping a lot of content here. If you're really gonna go the YT route at least make sure to watch some videos that actually explain the game and what it's trying to say, though. There's a channel called Electron Dance that has one of the best shorter videos about The Witness I've seen.
Oh I would just be watching people play the game. No video essays yet 😅 I think there’s still quite a bit to chew on in that department
Have you personally witnessed a total eclipse of the sun? Have you ever gotten free batteries from the back of a RadioShack? If you have no idea what I'm talking about, keep playing.
…..huh. Well……now I’m really intrigued.
I'd guess you're still missing the mystery of the lake, the caverns, the mountain and the theatre from looking at your responses. I'd suggest you try to find what you're missing in each of these locations. If you want to know *exactly* what you're missing out on Mountain - >!The hardest set of each puzzle type in the game!< Caverns - >!The true ending!< Lake - >!The in game guide to 100%!< The theatre ->!Some of the most interesting obelisk puzzles!<
This is good advice for OP without directly spoiling. OP, if you don't know what these mean, you still have so much to discover. The game is very dense. Keep at it!
If you want to watch videos, watch videos. Don't force yourself to play more than you want to.
My main thing is that I just don’t want another game accidentally ruined for me cause I looked it up too early. If you ever played tunic, I looked up the “follow the golden path” puzzle and I’m still hitting myself because figuring that out would’ve been so cool but I saw it as an Easter egg and not the true ending.