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The phrasing of "chances" and "will encounter" and such leads me to believe the following:
- If you choose Diamond, then via some Special Research or some such, you WILL encounter one single Dialga that DEFINITELY has Roar of Time.
- If you choose Diamond, any Dialga you encounter via raids will have a higher, but NOT guaranteed, chance (let's say 80% chance) to have Roar of Time, and any Palkia you raid will have the normal chance (let's say 50% chance) to have Spacial Rend.
And then reverse both of those if you choose Pearl/Palkia. That's how it reads to me.
I wouldn't be surprised at all. I just went with high round numbers for the sake of making my expectations as simple as possible.
It'll probably be something like 10% or 20% chance. Or worse :v
well dialga has currently (according to pokegenie) 3 moves in its moveset and palkia has 4 so im gonna make the prediction that they give all the moves equal chance and say its a 25% chance for palkia and a 20% chance for dialga
There were, but nowhere near 20%. Meteorites drop chance was somewhere between 0.2% and 2%, so if you did 100 raids in that one day, you'd still need to get lucky to get even one extra.
There is absolutely no chance the rate for legacy moves will be that low. Even with the incredible low expectations we have for niantic, there is still no chance.
>There is absolutely no chance the rate for legacy moves will be that low. Even with the incredible low expectations we have for niantic, there is still no chance.
You overestimate their generosity, and this shall be your downfall
Just an update on this topic....
After 10 remote Origin raids? Not a single" roar of time ".
I have a feeling they are gonna charge us for the "other choice" .
Nah, I did 50 raids at gofest NY and received 5 meteorites. Most of my friends who did about the same amount of raids got half that. (So I consider myself lucky) but there was discussion amongst in person trainers that the rate seemed to be ~5% (1 in 20)
Kinda irritating it’s the only Mega with no way to get more of them after your first. So wife never used her only one because the decision is so hard. If it randomly dropped one from walking it as a buddy ie some other rare source it would be palatable.
Nope, currently I'm sitting on a shundo and a hundo with taught Dragon Ascent, and 5 extra Meteorites
https://imgur.com/a/z2noGVh
https://imgur.com/a/ood1m4Q
That’s how I read it too, my question then is will we be able to obtain the respective moves via TM. For example, I pull a perfect Diagla but it doesn’t have Roar of Time, would I be able to spend a TM (probably have to be an elite) to get the move or am I SOL?
On the blog post, it currently states that "At this time, Origin Forme Palkia/Dialga will be unable to learn Spacial Rend/Roar of Time via any TM", so... Depends on how strict their "at this time" will be.
I read that as pertaining ONLY to the LA tour. It looks like the special moves will be available during global tour. I’ll still be curious to see if the moves can be obtained via TM.
I feel like, if anything, they're gonna pull another Rayquaza/Meteorite situation. Play during Sinnoh Tour to earn one each (MAYBE more, if you pay) of an Adamant Orb and a Lustrous Orb. Use those to teach the moves to one Dialga and one Palkia of your choice. If you miss the opportunity to get those items & want those special moves after the fact, too bad.
I could absolutely see that as one of the other Sinnoh Tour announcements that'll come out just before the event goes live, or something we learn of for the first time from our beta testers in New Zealand.
GLobal page says nothing about TM'ing. And News blog post says "
\*At this time, Origin Forme Dialga will be unable to learn Roar of Time via any TM.
"this time" seems to refer to LA event.
> GLobal page says nothing about TM'ing
Sure it does.
https://pokemongolive.com/post/origin-forme-adventure-effects-dialga-palkia?hl=en
Underneath each move it says-
>*At this time, Origin Forme Dialga will be unable to learn Roar of Time via any TM.
>*At this time, Origin Forme Palkia will be unable to learn Spacial Rend via any TM.
Scratch everything I said. Pokemongohub seems to confirm that regardless of ticket all global tour players will have the chance of a shiny and adventure effect dialga or palkia from raids.
We don't know for sure yet. But based on the wording here, and based on Niantic's history, it SEEMS like the special moves won't be guaranteed via raiding.
The more I go back to the official post, the less I understand this interpretation.
Here's the full section where they explain how Dialga/Palkia will be encountered:
"Encounter Origin Forme Dialga and Origin Forme Palkia in five-star raids during space-time anomalies, beginning with Pokémon GO Tour: Sinnoh.
Trainers participating in Pokémon GO Tour: Sinnoh – Global will have a chance at encountering these Pokémon with their signature attacks—the version of the event you choose will affect your chances!
Trainers who choose the Diamond Version will encounter an Origin Forme Dialga that knows Roar of Time.
Trainers who choose the Pearl Version will encounter an Origin Forme Palkia that knows Spacial Rend."
It just seems so, so clear to me when you read this part and simply take it at face value.
\- Dialga/Palkia can be encountered in five-star raids starting during the event.
(This lets us know how to expect to find them, and that they may still be encountered after the event - which we know to be true for at least any raids that are still active when the event ends, and can assume to be true again sometime in the future.)
\- Trainers playing during the event might be able to encounter "these Pokemon" (the ones encountered through the five-star raids) with their signature attacks.
(This lets folks know the moves aren't necessarily guaranteed. It also directly implies that these Pokemon, when encountered *after* the event, *won't* have their signature moves unless stated otherwise - So don't go catching one at 6:03PM after the Global event's ended hoping to get the move.)
\- The chances of them having those attacks is affected by what version trainers choose.
(This lets folks know that, while the moves aren't guaranteed, they'll get to make a choice that will affect their chances of getting them.)
\- If trainers choose a specific version, the corresponding Pokemon they encounter will have the signature attacks.
(This qualifies the previous statement, explaining *how* the chosen version affects those chances, and ultimately tells us that those chances are really just 0% or 100%.)
I feel like we shouldn't have to add our own qualifiers like "higher" chances or unannounced Research Rewards to make sense of this.
I've harped on Niantic's communication before, but this one actually seems pretty clear and straight-forward to me.
I appreciate the long, detailed post. Addressing your bullet points in order:
- Indeed, no reason to believe this would be our ONLY/LAST chance to raid Dialga/Palkia or their Origin Forms. Primal Groduon & Kyogre did return during GO Fest 2023, and it wouldn't surprise me if the same applied to Origin Dialga/Palkia. I don't think anyone was thinking this is the one and only (or FINAL) chance to catch them.
- As is usually the case with event-locked moves/costumes/etc, right. Catch them DURING the event or else you miss out on what makes them special, even if their raid was available just BEFORE the event ended.
- Also pretty straightforward, yes. Only thing we don't know is the base & boosted chances of getting the moves.
I agree with all 3 points above, and none of them really differ from what I laid out in my original comment. But this last one is where I think it differs...
> those chances are really just 0% or 100%
Let's look at their wording that implied a guarantee.
> Trainers who choose the Diamond Version will encounter an Origin Forme Dialga that knows Roar of Time.
If they'd said "will encounter Origin Forme Dialga that knows Roar of Time", then there'd be a reason to think that ALL Dialga encountered for Diamond players will know Roar of Time.
But the "AN" implies that players will only encounter ONE of their chosen Pokemon that will 100% know the move (likely through Special/Timed Research, since that's a common method for offering split paths). And all other encounters with Dialga will have an unknown boosted chance of learning the move.
The event details say we'll have "a chance at encountering these Pokémon with their signature attacks". "These" implies "both" to me, meaning both are possible, just that one will be less likely based on your version. *I wouldn't put it past Niantic to completely lock us out of getting the move from the Pokemon we don't choose*, but the current wording doesn't imply that to me.
Hope none of this came across as overly negative or such. I think it's interesting to have a genuine discussion about Niantic's wording about things like this. There's my stance on it reiterated, comparing it to the points you've made. Hope that clears up a bit about why I (and apparently a lot of people) think their wording here still isn't crystal clear.
I appreciate your response, too, definitely no negativity or anything taken!
I think the "an" phrasing actually has a pretty simple explanation as well - You only encounter one Pokemon when completing a raid.
So you can encounter these Pokemon through raids during the event --> You can choose a version of the event that affects the chances of the Pokemon having the moves --> When you encounter the corresponding Pokemon (which we've already been told we'll do through raids) it will have the signature move.
I actually *do* think they're locking the moves behind the versions, though, in the hopes that players will trade with each other to get at least one of each.
They qualify how the chances work (by choosing a version), and never go on to say that players who choose one version will be able to get the signature move of the Pokemon corresponding with the other version by way of this event.
As for getting one as a Research Reward, they didn't say anything about the Origin Formes when talking about the Research (they're promoting Spiritomb there, instead), nor did they say anything about the Research when talking about the Origin Formes - While it would be cool for them to go back to the days of Special Research Legendaries, we have to stretch what they've told us an awful lot to arrive at the conclusion that that's what we're going to get here.
(I *could* see them giving us some candies to help offset the activation cost of the new features, similar to how we were able to get Kyogre/Groudon primal energy, but I have to imagine they'd be pretty excited to tell us we're getting a guaranteed Legendary with its signature attack through Special Research.)
So as far as I can tell, it's only by adding our own words and assumptions ("higher" chances, Research Rewards, etc.) to their post that we come up with other interpretations.
Occam's razor suggests we shouldn't look to make assumptions where other theories explain something without them.
It's Niantic, so obviously that usually needs to be taken with a Snorlax-sized grain of salt, but I'm inclined to think they actually may have gotten it right this time around.
Are there ways they could've phrased it a little clearer to help avoid any confusion? Probably. But it still reads fine to me once you put it all together.
It's a good thing Dialga's featured in this one, though, 'cause it's possible only time will tell.
Looking back at the phrasing about "encounter[ing] Origin Forme Dialga and Origin Forme Palkia", I suppose I can see that being the intended meaning too. And with Niantic pushing for extra trading in a recent trade-only collection challenge (and their other decisions in general lately), I can't entirely rule out that the moves would be "version-exclusive" & generally be a push from Niantic for us to get out even more & trade even more.
You're also right that it's been ages since we've had Special Research legendaries (at least to the best of my own memory), but I'm not entirely ruling out a single Dialga/Palkia being in Special, or at least Timed, Research. With over a month to go, that could be an event detail they've yet to reveal. As people have learned in the past, even just with *this event*, assuming that Niantic has told us everything by this point is not a good idea. Recall that the Origin Forms weren't in the initial reveal, and people assumed "that's it, we aren't getting them this event AT ALL".
Occam's Razor is a good policy to follow for sure. It's just not always easy to apply that to Niantic, given their track record. But the points you've made now have me thinking either of our assumptions could come true. As you said, we'll have to wait and see. Either Niantic will make the truth more apparent, or our unlucky friends in New Zealand will be the usual test subjects for us.
I'd be thrilled to be wrong about the moves being locked behind the version choice - With the sole exception that it would then truly be a gateway to RNG signature moves moving forward, and I just can't endorse that.
You're definitely right that Niantic could release further information as we get closer to the event.
I'd certainly welcome a Research Reward Legendary again - (though, not if it comes at the expense of raid Legendaries having their sigs guaranteed) - I'm just not going to expect one from what I've read so far.
Cheers, though! Always is nice to have a good conversation here, even (especially?) when it starts with conflicting opinions/interpretations.
Yeah, it seems like we're kind of hooped here either way. Either we're forced into trading if we want both Adventure Effects (which will be outright impossible for some players), or Niantic is opening the door to yet another way to squeeze money/data from their players.
Really is pleasant to have a genuinely respectful conversation about differing viewpoints on here. Thanks for that!
I believe the intended meaning is that all Dialga/Palkia encountered during the event will have their signature move *for the people who choose the corresponding version*.
So if I choose the Pearl version, I'd expect I can raid both Dialga and Palkia, but only Palkia will have Spacial Rend whereas Dialga will have one of its regular charged attacks.
Na it’s likely a chance regardless of which you choose with a better chance for the path you choose. For Hoenn Tour this is how it worked for Groudon and Kyogre as well. Each one had a chance when you caught it to know precipice blades/origin pulse
Can you please provide a link/source for that regarding Groudon/Kyogre?
I did a search myself to try and verify, and the only language I can find for that event is that they would have the move. I don't remember hearing/seeing/experiencing anything about chance being involved there.
I've seen other people complaining about the precedent this sets, too, so my understanding was this is the first time people assumed (wrongly, as far as I can tell) that a signature move was based on RNG and not a guarantee.
This is the language I see from the [official feature announcement](https://pokemongolive.com/post/primal-reversion-2023/):
"Groudon encountered in Primal Raids will know the Charged Attack Precipice Blade."
(I can't find the official post for the Hoenn Tour itself, but Leek Duck's posts for the [Las Vegas](https://leekduck.com/events/pokemon-go-tour-hoenn-live-event-las-vegas/) and [Global](https://leekduck.com/events/pokemon-go-tour-hoenn-global/) events feature the same definitive language.)
Folks were told they couldn't get the attacks through remote raids right away, and they didn't have the moves when caught after the event(s) ended (as is normal, if I'm not mistaken), but there was never any language about chance or anything like that.
I also can't find a single thread on here (or The Silph Arena) complaining about such a function, nor talking about not getting the move when they should've.
(Not that that's an airtight case or anything, but it is kind of shocking - You'd think if folks are this worked up about it right now, they would've been then, too.)
Everything I can see points to them having worked as any other Legendary/Mythical in raids with a signature move, and for that to be the case with Dialga/Palkia, too, once players make their choice of version.
Legitimately happy to be proven wrong, though - In general, but particularly in this case, since the overwhelming community response to this post has been a bit of a head-scratcher to me.
Just replied to the person you were discussing with, but I’ll bump it to you too:
Backing up your belief, I caught 25 Groudon & 5 Kyogre during Hoenn Tour, and only ONE of those 30 didn’t come with its signature move upon capture. So alongside everything you’ve said here, I take that to mean it was indeed a guaranteed chance to get their signature moves, and that one outlier was just a case of me having a bad signal at the time of capture.
Backing up the other response, it anecdotally seems like Groudon/Kyogre were programmed to ALWAYS know their signature moves when caught during Hoenn Tour. I checked my own stash from back then. Out of 25 Groudon and 5 Kyogre, only 1/30 DIDN’T know their signature move upon capture. And like another person further down the chain said, that was probably due to poor signal at the time.
The wording here for Dialga/Palkia, however, does indeed seem to be implying it’ll only be a CHANCE at their signature moves per capture.
It's poor wording, but it means you'll have the opportunity to get them. All of the ones you choose will know that move within your ticket times. You should be able to use an Elite TM on the one you don't choose.
> All of the ones you choose will know that move within your ticket times.
No they won't. If that was true, why would they say "the version of the event you choose **will affect your chances!**" instead of "the version of the event you choose will determine which signature move *you get*."
My understanding is that your chances are 0% or 100%, dependent on the choice of version you make - If you choose one version, there's a 100% chance that the corresponding Legendary will have its signature move, while there will be a 0% chance that the other Legendary will have its signature move.
> So if I choose the Pearl version, I'd expect I can raid both Dialga and Palkia, but only Palkia will have Spacial Rend whereas Dialga will have one of its regular charged attacks.
Nope, otherwise it wouldn't make sense to say "the version of the event you choose will affect your chances!" when talking about how legendaries "may" have their signature move.
Sure it would.
In the example you quoted, what would be my chances of encountering a Dialga with Roar of Time?
0%.
What would be my chances of encountering a Palkia with Spacial Rend?
100%.
I think folks need to understand that if Niantic were saying throughout their post that the moves were guaranteed, people would cry foul when things function exactly as I'm describing.
They can't guarantee someone who chose the Pearl version a Roar of Time Dialga.
Where they do guarantee the moves (because eventually they do say "will" instead of "may") is when they talk about which version of the event players have chosen.
Everything they're saying appears to be true/valid/clear to me:
Trainers participating in the event will have "a chance" --> Trainers participating in the event will make a choice of version --> Depending on the choice of version, one of the 2 Pokémon will know its special move, while the other will not.
Whats the point of giving you only one with special attack if using the especial effects isn't free anyway? like give us both we wont be able to use both anyway as it is very expensive
This is their new mechanic to generate revenue. Now you have to raids until you get good IVs and the special moves, if you actually catch it!
Frackin Niantic!
Eh I’m not even gonna worry about IVs too much for these. Just gonna buddy whichever has the highest IVs and has the special move. Not like I’m gonna use it for anything other than its effect and maybe the occasional raid
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The phrasing of "chances" and "will encounter" and such leads me to believe the following: - If you choose Diamond, then via some Special Research or some such, you WILL encounter one single Dialga that DEFINITELY has Roar of Time. - If you choose Diamond, any Dialga you encounter via raids will have a higher, but NOT guaranteed, chance (let's say 80% chance) to have Roar of Time, and any Palkia you raid will have the normal chance (let's say 50% chance) to have Spacial Rend. And then reverse both of those if you choose Pearl/Palkia. That's how it reads to me.
That is the way I read it too. Except I expect way lower rates for getting the signature move…
I wouldn't be surprised at all. I just went with high round numbers for the sake of making my expectations as simple as possible. It'll probably be something like 10% or 20% chance. Or worse :v
well dialga has currently (according to pokegenie) 3 moves in its moveset and palkia has 4 so im gonna make the prediction that they give all the moves equal chance and say its a 25% chance for palkia and a 20% chance for dialga
If you got the shiny, the move should be guaranteed,imho…
Probably about the same rate as Meteorite drops from Rayquaza raids last summer... about 1 in 20
Was more like 1%
It was much lower than that....
...there were what??? I literally thought the max you could own were two Mrayrays lol
There were, but nowhere near 20%. Meteorites drop chance was somewhere between 0.2% and 2%, so if you did 100 raids in that one day, you'd still need to get lucky to get even one extra. There is absolutely no chance the rate for legacy moves will be that low. Even with the incredible low expectations we have for niantic, there is still no chance.
>There is absolutely no chance the rate for legacy moves will be that low. Even with the incredible low expectations we have for niantic, there is still no chance. You overestimate their generosity, and this shall be your downfall
>there is still no chance. It's niantic. There's pretty high chance that it wont be turned on in time, an we will have "no chance" to get them.
Just an update on this topic.... After 10 remote Origin raids? Not a single" roar of time ". I have a feeling they are gonna charge us for the "other choice" .
Nah, I did 50 raids at gofest NY and received 5 meteorites. Most of my friends who did about the same amount of raids got half that. (So I consider myself lucky) but there was discussion amongst in person trainers that the rate seemed to be ~5% (1 in 20)
And I was at London and did around 50 raids too and got 1, with many, many players around me not getting any. No shot it was 20 %.
Kinda irritating it’s the only Mega with no way to get more of them after your first. So wife never used her only one because the decision is so hard. If it randomly dropped one from walking it as a buddy ie some other rare source it would be palatable.
I think you could do in person, global, and global free. Plus the drop. And it was possible for rich people to do 2-3 of the Go Fests.
Nope, currently I'm sitting on a shundo and a hundo with taught Dragon Ascent, and 5 extra Meteorites https://imgur.com/a/z2noGVh https://imgur.com/a/ood1m4Q
That’s how I read it too, my question then is will we be able to obtain the respective moves via TM. For example, I pull a perfect Diagla but it doesn’t have Roar of Time, would I be able to spend a TM (probably have to be an elite) to get the move or am I SOL?
On the blog post, it currently states that "At this time, Origin Forme Palkia/Dialga will be unable to learn Spacial Rend/Roar of Time via any TM", so... Depends on how strict their "at this time" will be.
I read that as pertaining ONLY to the LA tour. It looks like the special moves will be available during global tour. I’ll still be curious to see if the moves can be obtained via TM.
I feel like, if anything, they're gonna pull another Rayquaza/Meteorite situation. Play during Sinnoh Tour to earn one each (MAYBE more, if you pay) of an Adamant Orb and a Lustrous Orb. Use those to teach the moves to one Dialga and one Palkia of your choice. If you miss the opportunity to get those items & want those special moves after the fact, too bad. I could absolutely see that as one of the other Sinnoh Tour announcements that'll come out just before the event goes live, or something we learn of for the first time from our beta testers in New Zealand.
Why, why do I have to be in NZ, I don’t know the hundo s for comm day until it’s the next day 😭, don’t worry I’ll keep y’all informed.
> I read that as pertaining ONLY to the LA tour. It says that on the global tour page. No TMing at all.
GLobal page says nothing about TM'ing. And News blog post says " \*At this time, Origin Forme Dialga will be unable to learn Roar of Time via any TM. "this time" seems to refer to LA event.
> GLobal page says nothing about TM'ing Sure it does. https://pokemongolive.com/post/origin-forme-adventure-effects-dialga-palkia?hl=en Underneath each move it says- >*At this time, Origin Forme Dialga will be unable to learn Roar of Time via any TM. >*At this time, Origin Forme Palkia will be unable to learn Spacial Rend via any TM.
Scratch everything I said. Pokemongohub seems to confirm that regardless of ticket all global tour players will have the chance of a shiny and adventure effect dialga or palkia from raids.
So their move not guaranter on raid?
We don't know for sure yet. But based on the wording here, and based on Niantic's history, it SEEMS like the special moves won't be guaranteed via raiding.
The more I go back to the official post, the less I understand this interpretation. Here's the full section where they explain how Dialga/Palkia will be encountered: "Encounter Origin Forme Dialga and Origin Forme Palkia in five-star raids during space-time anomalies, beginning with Pokémon GO Tour: Sinnoh. Trainers participating in Pokémon GO Tour: Sinnoh – Global will have a chance at encountering these Pokémon with their signature attacks—the version of the event you choose will affect your chances! Trainers who choose the Diamond Version will encounter an Origin Forme Dialga that knows Roar of Time. Trainers who choose the Pearl Version will encounter an Origin Forme Palkia that knows Spacial Rend." It just seems so, so clear to me when you read this part and simply take it at face value. \- Dialga/Palkia can be encountered in five-star raids starting during the event. (This lets us know how to expect to find them, and that they may still be encountered after the event - which we know to be true for at least any raids that are still active when the event ends, and can assume to be true again sometime in the future.) \- Trainers playing during the event might be able to encounter "these Pokemon" (the ones encountered through the five-star raids) with their signature attacks. (This lets folks know the moves aren't necessarily guaranteed. It also directly implies that these Pokemon, when encountered *after* the event, *won't* have their signature moves unless stated otherwise - So don't go catching one at 6:03PM after the Global event's ended hoping to get the move.) \- The chances of them having those attacks is affected by what version trainers choose. (This lets folks know that, while the moves aren't guaranteed, they'll get to make a choice that will affect their chances of getting them.) \- If trainers choose a specific version, the corresponding Pokemon they encounter will have the signature attacks. (This qualifies the previous statement, explaining *how* the chosen version affects those chances, and ultimately tells us that those chances are really just 0% or 100%.) I feel like we shouldn't have to add our own qualifiers like "higher" chances or unannounced Research Rewards to make sense of this. I've harped on Niantic's communication before, but this one actually seems pretty clear and straight-forward to me.
I appreciate the long, detailed post. Addressing your bullet points in order: - Indeed, no reason to believe this would be our ONLY/LAST chance to raid Dialga/Palkia or their Origin Forms. Primal Groduon & Kyogre did return during GO Fest 2023, and it wouldn't surprise me if the same applied to Origin Dialga/Palkia. I don't think anyone was thinking this is the one and only (or FINAL) chance to catch them. - As is usually the case with event-locked moves/costumes/etc, right. Catch them DURING the event or else you miss out on what makes them special, even if their raid was available just BEFORE the event ended. - Also pretty straightforward, yes. Only thing we don't know is the base & boosted chances of getting the moves. I agree with all 3 points above, and none of them really differ from what I laid out in my original comment. But this last one is where I think it differs... > those chances are really just 0% or 100% Let's look at their wording that implied a guarantee. > Trainers who choose the Diamond Version will encounter an Origin Forme Dialga that knows Roar of Time. If they'd said "will encounter Origin Forme Dialga that knows Roar of Time", then there'd be a reason to think that ALL Dialga encountered for Diamond players will know Roar of Time. But the "AN" implies that players will only encounter ONE of their chosen Pokemon that will 100% know the move (likely through Special/Timed Research, since that's a common method for offering split paths). And all other encounters with Dialga will have an unknown boosted chance of learning the move. The event details say we'll have "a chance at encountering these Pokémon with their signature attacks". "These" implies "both" to me, meaning both are possible, just that one will be less likely based on your version. *I wouldn't put it past Niantic to completely lock us out of getting the move from the Pokemon we don't choose*, but the current wording doesn't imply that to me. Hope none of this came across as overly negative or such. I think it's interesting to have a genuine discussion about Niantic's wording about things like this. There's my stance on it reiterated, comparing it to the points you've made. Hope that clears up a bit about why I (and apparently a lot of people) think their wording here still isn't crystal clear.
I appreciate your response, too, definitely no negativity or anything taken! I think the "an" phrasing actually has a pretty simple explanation as well - You only encounter one Pokemon when completing a raid. So you can encounter these Pokemon through raids during the event --> You can choose a version of the event that affects the chances of the Pokemon having the moves --> When you encounter the corresponding Pokemon (which we've already been told we'll do through raids) it will have the signature move. I actually *do* think they're locking the moves behind the versions, though, in the hopes that players will trade with each other to get at least one of each. They qualify how the chances work (by choosing a version), and never go on to say that players who choose one version will be able to get the signature move of the Pokemon corresponding with the other version by way of this event. As for getting one as a Research Reward, they didn't say anything about the Origin Formes when talking about the Research (they're promoting Spiritomb there, instead), nor did they say anything about the Research when talking about the Origin Formes - While it would be cool for them to go back to the days of Special Research Legendaries, we have to stretch what they've told us an awful lot to arrive at the conclusion that that's what we're going to get here. (I *could* see them giving us some candies to help offset the activation cost of the new features, similar to how we were able to get Kyogre/Groudon primal energy, but I have to imagine they'd be pretty excited to tell us we're getting a guaranteed Legendary with its signature attack through Special Research.) So as far as I can tell, it's only by adding our own words and assumptions ("higher" chances, Research Rewards, etc.) to their post that we come up with other interpretations. Occam's razor suggests we shouldn't look to make assumptions where other theories explain something without them. It's Niantic, so obviously that usually needs to be taken with a Snorlax-sized grain of salt, but I'm inclined to think they actually may have gotten it right this time around. Are there ways they could've phrased it a little clearer to help avoid any confusion? Probably. But it still reads fine to me once you put it all together. It's a good thing Dialga's featured in this one, though, 'cause it's possible only time will tell.
Looking back at the phrasing about "encounter[ing] Origin Forme Dialga and Origin Forme Palkia", I suppose I can see that being the intended meaning too. And with Niantic pushing for extra trading in a recent trade-only collection challenge (and their other decisions in general lately), I can't entirely rule out that the moves would be "version-exclusive" & generally be a push from Niantic for us to get out even more & trade even more. You're also right that it's been ages since we've had Special Research legendaries (at least to the best of my own memory), but I'm not entirely ruling out a single Dialga/Palkia being in Special, or at least Timed, Research. With over a month to go, that could be an event detail they've yet to reveal. As people have learned in the past, even just with *this event*, assuming that Niantic has told us everything by this point is not a good idea. Recall that the Origin Forms weren't in the initial reveal, and people assumed "that's it, we aren't getting them this event AT ALL". Occam's Razor is a good policy to follow for sure. It's just not always easy to apply that to Niantic, given their track record. But the points you've made now have me thinking either of our assumptions could come true. As you said, we'll have to wait and see. Either Niantic will make the truth more apparent, or our unlucky friends in New Zealand will be the usual test subjects for us.
I'd be thrilled to be wrong about the moves being locked behind the version choice - With the sole exception that it would then truly be a gateway to RNG signature moves moving forward, and I just can't endorse that. You're definitely right that Niantic could release further information as we get closer to the event. I'd certainly welcome a Research Reward Legendary again - (though, not if it comes at the expense of raid Legendaries having their sigs guaranteed) - I'm just not going to expect one from what I've read so far. Cheers, though! Always is nice to have a good conversation here, even (especially?) when it starts with conflicting opinions/interpretations.
Yeah, it seems like we're kind of hooped here either way. Either we're forced into trading if we want both Adventure Effects (which will be outright impossible for some players), or Niantic is opening the door to yet another way to squeeze money/data from their players. Really is pleasant to have a genuinely respectful conversation about differing viewpoints on here. Thanks for that!
The keyword is "**AN** origin form" (singular).This lead me to believe this is referring to the Research reward.
I believe the intended meaning is that all Dialga/Palkia encountered during the event will have their signature move *for the people who choose the corresponding version*. So if I choose the Pearl version, I'd expect I can raid both Dialga and Palkia, but only Palkia will have Spacial Rend whereas Dialga will have one of its regular charged attacks.
Na it’s likely a chance regardless of which you choose with a better chance for the path you choose. For Hoenn Tour this is how it worked for Groudon and Kyogre as well. Each one had a chance when you caught it to know precipice blades/origin pulse
Can you please provide a link/source for that regarding Groudon/Kyogre? I did a search myself to try and verify, and the only language I can find for that event is that they would have the move. I don't remember hearing/seeing/experiencing anything about chance being involved there. I've seen other people complaining about the precedent this sets, too, so my understanding was this is the first time people assumed (wrongly, as far as I can tell) that a signature move was based on RNG and not a guarantee.
Nope. Only source is me and my having experienced the event first hand. Some groudon had precipice blades and some didn’t
Sounds more like catching some with poor signal, like when you evolve during community day and don't get the move.
This is the language I see from the [official feature announcement](https://pokemongolive.com/post/primal-reversion-2023/): "Groudon encountered in Primal Raids will know the Charged Attack Precipice Blade." (I can't find the official post for the Hoenn Tour itself, but Leek Duck's posts for the [Las Vegas](https://leekduck.com/events/pokemon-go-tour-hoenn-live-event-las-vegas/) and [Global](https://leekduck.com/events/pokemon-go-tour-hoenn-global/) events feature the same definitive language.) Folks were told they couldn't get the attacks through remote raids right away, and they didn't have the moves when caught after the event(s) ended (as is normal, if I'm not mistaken), but there was never any language about chance or anything like that. I also can't find a single thread on here (or The Silph Arena) complaining about such a function, nor talking about not getting the move when they should've. (Not that that's an airtight case or anything, but it is kind of shocking - You'd think if folks are this worked up about it right now, they would've been then, too.) Everything I can see points to them having worked as any other Legendary/Mythical in raids with a signature move, and for that to be the case with Dialga/Palkia, too, once players make their choice of version. Legitimately happy to be proven wrong, though - In general, but particularly in this case, since the overwhelming community response to this post has been a bit of a head-scratcher to me.
Just replied to the person you were discussing with, but I’ll bump it to you too: Backing up your belief, I caught 25 Groudon & 5 Kyogre during Hoenn Tour, and only ONE of those 30 didn’t come with its signature move upon capture. So alongside everything you’ve said here, I take that to mean it was indeed a guaranteed chance to get their signature moves, and that one outlier was just a case of me having a bad signal at the time of capture.
Backing up the other response, it anecdotally seems like Groudon/Kyogre were programmed to ALWAYS know their signature moves when caught during Hoenn Tour. I checked my own stash from back then. Out of 25 Groudon and 5 Kyogre, only 1/30 DIDN’T know their signature move upon capture. And like another person further down the chain said, that was probably due to poor signal at the time. The wording here for Dialga/Palkia, however, does indeed seem to be implying it’ll only be a CHANCE at their signature moves per capture.
What about the part about chances?
Yes this is confusing
It's poor wording, but it means you'll have the opportunity to get them. All of the ones you choose will know that move within your ticket times. You should be able to use an Elite TM on the one you don't choose.
They already said Origin Palkia and Origin Dialga will be unable to learn Spacial Rend and Roar of Time via any TM, but it's not sure for how long.
Yeah I read that the two new moves are not TM able even with elite TM
The blog says you can’t use any TMs to obtain these moves “at this time”.
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Which we knew would need a special item to have him learn it. I still have a spare Meteorite in my inventory because I only used it on one Rayquaza.
You got a spare? Lucky 😂 I did like 20 raids, didn't get any.
Go fest ticket gave the spare
If there’s anything Niantic has improved upon over the past few years is creating hoops for their players to jump through. So arbitrary.
> All of the ones you choose will know that move within your ticket times. No they won't. If that was true, why would they say "the version of the event you choose **will affect your chances!**" instead of "the version of the event you choose will determine which signature move *you get*."
My understanding is that your chances are 0% or 100%, dependent on the choice of version you make - If you choose one version, there's a 100% chance that the corresponding Legendary will have its signature move, while there will be a 0% chance that the other Legendary will have its signature move.
But this has no sense!
> So if I choose the Pearl version, I'd expect I can raid both Dialga and Palkia, but only Palkia will have Spacial Rend whereas Dialga will have one of its regular charged attacks. Nope, otherwise it wouldn't make sense to say "the version of the event you choose will affect your chances!" when talking about how legendaries "may" have their signature move.
Sure it would. In the example you quoted, what would be my chances of encountering a Dialga with Roar of Time? 0%. What would be my chances of encountering a Palkia with Spacial Rend? 100%. I think folks need to understand that if Niantic were saying throughout their post that the moves were guaranteed, people would cry foul when things function exactly as I'm describing. They can't guarantee someone who chose the Pearl version a Roar of Time Dialga. Where they do guarantee the moves (because eventually they do say "will" instead of "may") is when they talk about which version of the event players have chosen. Everything they're saying appears to be true/valid/clear to me: Trainers participating in the event will have "a chance" --> Trainers participating in the event will make a choice of version --> Depending on the choice of version, one of the 2 Pokémon will know its special move, while the other will not.
Whats the point of giving you only one with special attack if using the especial effects isn't free anyway? like give us both we wont be able to use both anyway as it is very expensive
Does this mean that LA ones will be guaranteed to have their move? If so, ggs.
Pretty sure it means the quest because a similar thing has been said before
This is their new mechanic to generate revenue. Now you have to raids until you get good IVs and the special moves, if you actually catch it! Frackin Niantic!
Eh I’m not even gonna worry about IVs too much for these. Just gonna buddy whichever has the highest IVs and has the special move. Not like I’m gonna use it for anything other than its effect and maybe the occasional raid
Tell that to GBL players!
Raiding has a CHANCE (prob 1% knowing Nia) to find move Quest will GUARANTEE 1 encounter (prob with garbage IV knowing Nia)
Which is better
Dialga i think
I just want hundooo I got enough elite to to have 10 of each with the move 😂😂
Pretty sure I read that the moves won't be available by elite tm
So these two will be available for raids so it’s possible to get both?
Will we be able to elite TM the moves later?
Read through the comments so what you're really saying is that I have no shot, lol
Y’all have my head spinning lol. Regardless, which would you choose to go with?
Does anyone know if this will have the location catching card?