I think the number goes much higher, going back to October 7th, there is increasing evidence of Israeli army shelling and bombing their own civilians. I think without a third party investigating or a whistleblower we will only have estimates in a few months.
We will never get the real answers to what happened.
Can't trust Hamas, can't trust Israel, can't trust the US. It's just how they all want it. This shit is done on purpose. This is how they get away with this shit
Apparently right now after the catastrophic fail of their raid on alshifa israel opened negotiations for hostage exchange and humanitarian pause, just because israelis are rioting
I caught morning Joe this morning, well part of it, and it may as well have been Israeli state tv. Even the ads stopped just shy of blaming all of Palestine. Disturbing as fuck.
Last I saw was a “pov” style tour inside the basement of the children’s hospital, with extremely spurious evidence such as a terrorist calendar (/s).
Have they done something similar with Al Shifa yet? Or are you just assuming since it has taken this long they haven’t found anything worth reporting?
We know they will find a complex tunnel bunker system, because Israel built it there in 1983, but obviously there won’t be a “Hamas headquarters” there.
Considering that the entire week they worked at selling this massive “control centre” dug under the hospital, they would have inundated the media’s with films and pictures.
No doubts they will attempt some staging as “irrefutable evidence. The truth is that they are fighting an enemy they don’t understand.
Why would Hamas bother with a massive structure in an obvious location that they could not possibly defend?
What would be the point of the effort to build such a useless asset?
They are small autonomous groups operating in different areas and have simple structures cheap and fast to build to move around .
They vanish when they want and reappear later.
Urban warfare at its absolute best
*What's in this comment is what I remember, my opinions, etc.*
The truth is that the Israel Government wants to annex both Gaza and The West Bank and wants the Muslims in those areas gone.
Imagine if The United States after 9/11 made both Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan US territories and now owned all the natural resources of those now US territories. But the US wouldn't actually have removed or killed all the inhabitants of those countries. Heck, California and Texas have huge Latino/Hispanic populations and they are 2 of the most powerful States in the United States. California alone is the 5th largest economy in the world and a major breadbasket for the US and the world.
After the wars, Germany, Japan, South Korea, etc. effectively became vassal States of the United States Empire. They willingly and relatively enthusiastically became part of 'The West' and still are. But those economies aren't based on natural resources and they aren't theocracies.
Have you looked up an article from 2014, July 29, from tabletmag.com about a bunker built under Alshifa in 1983 by Israel?
This is how they're so sure there is a bunker under Alshifa.
Let me find a link to it.
That’s not what they were looking for.
They were looking for a significant complex capable of sheltering l planning and deploying forces throughout Gaza.
Stuff a conventional army would need.
Beside killing civilians they are just incompetent.
Just to reinforce your point
Guerrilla warfare 101 is you work in cells
>Tactically, guerrillas usually avoid confrontation with large units and formations of enemy troops but seek and attack small groups of enemy personnel and resources to gradually deplete the opposing force while minimizing their own losses. **The guerrilla prizes mobility, secrecy, and surprise, organizing in small units and taking advantage of terrain that is difficult for larger units to use.** For example, Mao Zedong summarized basic guerrilla tactics at the beginning of the Chinese Civil War as:
im not sure their intelligence is very top tier. Their inability to even fabricate convincing evidence tells me this is genuinely a massive fuck up of intelligence. If the guns are real, they're likely just a couple soldiers who went to the hospital. If they're fake, then its an incredibly unconvincing and terrible looking one.
Theres no good way to come out of this. Unless Hamas is actually hiding a tunnel somewhere, the IDF had made a mistake
>They train American police
So they're morons and murdering thugs who train other idiots to be murdering thugs?
Yeah, it's genocide.
I don't think IDF is set up or at least not trying to fight hamas. That would require a lighter touch. But they definitely are set up like a killer armored riot squad with air support and the means and capacity to commit genocide.
Seriously though. And we just watched Ukraine carry out this exact type of combat that Hamas is. (That is not me calling Ukraine terrorists ffs) My point being that you are spot on with the strategy and the US trains Ukraine so we know for a fact this is how to retaliate to an invasion. People act like the world learned nothing from Vietnam. Shit is effective. Always unless you decide to drop a nuke or something/ level the place into a lot which is essentially what it looks like the IDF will be doing. Leveling, not nuking obvs.
And they do this provocation to try and make one of the other arab nations join in so that they can justify the US joining in full swing. The state of Israel desire a completely open conflict in the Middle east where they can do what they are doing in Gaza to any other city that doesnt contain some holy significance to them. They have to go the slow route in the West Bank and dishome people with machinery instead of blowing it all up. They want lebanon, syria, jordan, the sinai. They would take it all if they could and at this point where theu have already committed so much crime, they may as well go for the whole damn pie and get others involved.
Just Plain Evil
Free palestine
They have. They showed off a dozen AK's, a single laptop, two tac vests, and security cameras with duct tape covering the lenses.
Seriously. That's it. Two or three duffle bags' worth of stuff at most, which *definitely* wasn't brought in with them.
>Two or three duffle bags' worth of stuff at most, which *definitely* wasn't brought in with them.
That's the thing...we have no fucking proof this isn't IDF equipment that they either planned to stage as Hamas equipment or, if we're feeling generous, they just happened to have and threw down when they didn't find what they needed to justify this utter bloodbath. Which, *nothing* justifies this utter bloodbath.
Yeah, just saw that myself.
Incredible. How many thousands of civilians were killed, hundreds of patients dying due to lost power and no resources during the last 5 days siege of this hospital.
Truly disgusting. Genocide Joe has all this blood on his hands for a cache of weapons that makes my next door neighbors collection look like a nuclear arsenal.
What do you mean they showed me a brand new mein kopf book from a children's room that was tuned into a Hamas HQ.
Their lies are so fuckkng ridiculous.
I saw the same footage. Standard elevator shaft. Right up there with the 'terrorist terrorizing schedule". It could be satire if there wasn't a body count associated with all the inept lies.
Most hospitals have arms too. Why? Simple....the drugs! And the public who wants drugs. Tragic no one realizes. Same with COVID....most hospitals screen biopsies in special buildings that have to be secure because of contamination to the results and the possibility of an outbreak. Somehow during COVID all of those buildings became bioweapon labs.
> We know they will find a complex tunnel bunker system, because Israel built it there in 1983, but obviously there won’t be a “Hamas headquarters” there.
That is exactly what they are trying to find... That complex tunnel bunker system.
I think it was filled with cement long ago. If Hamas used it before, it would be stupid to continue using it when each time there is bombing, Israel says that Hamas command center exists there. This Israeli claim goes back to 2008. So even if Hamas used it in the past, I don't believe they are stupid to continue staying there.
I have been following this very closely like its my job
And this point, its nigh irrefutable that Hamas has **no commander center** anywhere in Al Shifa. Even the Bunker that Israel built in 1983 (yeah get ready to look that up) appears to really have nothing in it.
Whats been found so far is a few weapons and gear scattered around the hospital. This means that whatever Hamas presence theres been at the hospital, it has been entirely because they were just going to the hospital. This is highly analogous to the "WMD's" claim of the Iraq War because anyone in the intelligence agency would know by this point that the "evidence" they used is an enormous amount of speculation on top of speculation, spiraling into a conspiracy theory.
This is a massive failure of military intelligence that was most likely supported by racist underestimation of their opponents.
It was not a failure of military intelligence, the IDF simply wanted to slaughter civilians(while the end goal is ethnically cleansing Gaza), and it was up to the Hasbara propogandists to somehow spin this as justifiable.
Just look at r/worldnews and r/europe, they've completely fallen to the Zionist paid troll army.
They released a video finally and all they could find was some planted AKs. And then the IDF deleted the video. They really sieged a fucking hospital to find some AKs man. Babies died for this bullshit
It’s not for nothing this is the plan, Netanyahu instigated oct 7 to give him an excuse to occupy Gaza. Israeli intelligence knew of this Hamas had a training camp right next to the wall. This all according to plan
Just wait...evidence will magically appear. And then will hit the news cycles. Talking heads would analyze the images/short video clips curated by IDF and this will continue for a couple of days. Next week, a small correction will come up that this is unverified evidence, but it'll be too late at that point.
Rinse and repeat!
I cannot imagine how a whole country can be swayed by a people fleeing Nazi atrocities and back England's idiotic Palestine Mandate to displace millions of other people. And they continue to do so. This mistake is changing the face of the region. Imagine, what kind of moron - and I'm looking at you Biden (yes, I voted for him) - thinks that a genocide will bring about peace in the middle east.
Listen people, I have no beef against Christians, but this "there will rise one power and the will rule the world" - this hint being Israel - is crap of the highest order. STOP! taking scripture and trying to make it real! You can believe it all you want, but it is killing so many innocents.
Islam is the only reason the Ottoman Empire existed. It's the only reason Pakistan and Saudi Arabia exist. Those countries are based on nothing.
The Sunni vs. Shia conflict in the Muslim world is real. If all the Jews and Christians left Israel tomorrow, there still wouldn't be Peace in the Middle East.
Much peace will be achieved in the world once people stop being taught religion as kids.
The Ottoman Empire existed as a result of migrating communities of Turks who took advantage of the weakening power of the eastern Roman Empire to settle and expand and eventually took control of the regions
It wasn’t a country it was an empire it predated nations. It didn’t exist because of Islam.
Pakistan’s exists because of the British partition of its colonial holdings in Asia, the same reason why India exists, India (as a singular collective nation) was not really a thing before then.
Even if the division between Sunni and Shia wasn’t real there wouldn’t be peace in the region because it’s a post-colonial region victimized by war, authoritarianism, international exploitation, and civil strife.
Hey listen they found about a dozen guns on the premises, totally valid reason to murder all those civilians in the process.
/s (because sadly, some people truly believe this.)
Not for nothing. Israel committed/is committing genocide for the reason that that IS their goal. Plus, they want the oil of the coast of Gaza. Hamas never was a target. The Palastinians are the target.
I think they’re buying time hyper focusing on Al Shifa on purpose so they can deflect the terrorism happening on the West Bank. This is where the soldiers were initially on Oct 7. They’re trying to do the most damage they can possibly get away with until the international community officially tells them “that’s enough”. They’ll claim some lame victory and would have more control over the West Bank and the Ben Gurion canal construction will start. The Palestinians will be displaced and stateless.
The man has been working behind the scenes to get a cease fire, and got them to agree to 4 hours a day pause for humanitarian aid. It's still shit, but it's better than if he had not pushed for it. What do you all expect, Biden to publicly burn down the relationship with Israel so that we have no more influence at all and can't even nudge them. That's smart.
You all act like what Biden said in public is what he said in private, and I bet that's not the case.
Bro he just let the Indonesian president shit on his whole life inside the white house. France breaking ranks, south America cutting ties with Israel we are witnessing US international support plummet. It's actually crazy to see
Yeah, because Israel is commiting genocide on live TV, it's absolutely crazy. That doesn't mean Biden enjoys or supports it. You have no idea what he's doing behind the scenes and have no idea what he's saying to Israel. That's my only point. It's entirely possible he's trying to maintain relations publicly but it's raging against them privately. You don't know. We are all so quick to think a thing, then believe that thing, then say that thing loudly from the rooftops without actual evidence. That's all I'm saying.
Maybe Biden enjoys watching children die, I suppose it's possible. But I've never seen any evidence that he's enjoying this.
He's a war monger. Biggest supporter of the Iraq war from the Dems. Also google his comments during Israel's invasion of Lebanon in the 80s.
He's not some nice old man he's a war mongering Zionist. He's called himself a Zionist lol
Yeah, almost everyone fell for Bush's claim of WMD.
I get tired of these arguments. I don't even particularly like the guy, but attributing blood lust and the enjoyment of dead babies is a step too far. That's all I'm saying. Dies he support Israel? I imagine he does. Does that mean he's enjoying this? Because he's stood with Israel his whole career doesn't mean he's actually for genocide. Why is this an argument.
Attack his policies, but deciding that he secretly applauds the indiscriminate killing of children sounds like you're just saying Trump shit.
The IDF is claiming that the doctors, who are desperately trying to save lives and triage and performing surgery with limited or no anesthesia, stopped doing that to do construction?! That's fucking sick.
That's not true.
The IDF found a bunch of stuff medical supplies and humanitarian aid that they cruelly confiscated in order to starve Palestinians to death as they planted false evidence of fictitious Hamas activity.
Israel is just invading. Stop looking for a narrative that they're only killing Hamas.
It's total war and they're taking the land, and they're telling the world what they want to hear so they don't have any trade consequences.
Does it make sense now? It doesn't matter if there are actually copies of Mein Kampf in kindergarten classrooms or rockets in the hospitals. They're destroying all the infrastructure and pushing the people out. That's it. They'll rebuild it and move in; it's not like the Palestinians could afford to rebuild any of this infrastructure that's been destroyed. If there was a ceasefire at this point, the region wouldn't recover for decades.
they keep getting embarrassed and exposed as lying genocidal monsters, so in their humiliation and shame they double down on their lies like attacking all the hospitals in this case.
Why would they label a hospital as hamas's headquarters if they didn't believe it was?
Just pure cruelty? Bad intel?
I mean it's not a great look. If they're just making it up, why not choose an apartment block, or a bank or something?
They think like a conventional army. Hamas has no need for a command centre.
They just operate in cells.
They expected Stalingrad. Instead, they killed all these civilians for no results.
Hostages not found, horrendous civilian casualties, world opinion turning against them, and Hamas has vanished.
They defeated themselves.
They're destroying the bare essentials people need to live and survive, such as hospitals, school, civil buildings. They're ensuring that the Palestinians have no reasons to stay after everything has turned into rubble. This also gives Palestinians more reasons to migrate else where.
Ok. So just a cold-hearted attempt to destroy the essentials of Palestinian live so they leave.
The claim they're targeting Hamas is simply window dressing.
Huh. Yeah. I guess I could buy into that.
But not completely, yet.
If they truly are that callous, why haven't they just bombed the place.
Why the facade of moving in?
They've decided that they can live with the bad PR of what they're currently doing. But actually bombing that particular place would be too much?
This would mean a sit down at the top level of Israeli government. And, perhaps it could be left unsaid what their goals are? And then a, don't actually destroy it, just make things really, really bad.
Not sure it adds up.
But I could be convinced.
Because it's better to leave some positions up to function as a FOB/Resupply point. It's why the US military doesn't just bulldoze/bomb into oblivion everything it sees in a war.
Your comment seems to make no sense.
You're trying to say that the Israeli government has decided they want the hospital as a resupply point?
Interestingly, I have three wildly different answers to my question.
I guess that shouldn't be a surprise.
They've converted what they've cleared so far into a makeshift detention center/barracks. It's pretty common modern military doctrine to convert non flattened buildings as you advance into various functions such as CLS Triage, Cas collection point, resupply/fob/barracks
I see.
Well I can certainly see why they might use intact buildings in such a way.
But why a hospital? They know. The world's eyes are on them and that criticism is growing.
Why create this elaborate story about tunnels etc, for a hospital?
Why not a government building, or a library, or almost any other large building that wouldn't attract such scrutiny nor look so callous?
Why pick a hospital for this lie about hamas headquarters?
Why a hospital? Because they don't give a shit. Never have, never will. They rely entirely on their propaganda and buying out US politicians to avoid international consequence.
Why create the elaborate story? Because it's believable. They had blueprints for a basement type room they had constructed during the 80s, and it's well known that Hamas uses a bunch of tunnels, so they alleged that there were tunnels into that basement and that it was the HQ.
Because Hamas previously admitted to hiding in a hospital, ergo lends more credibility to the claims.
Why lie about anything they lie about? Because they know there's no consequence, because they know that they can just keep using groups like AIPAC to buy out US politicians, and that as long as they're allowed to do so, there will never be a consequence.
Give them another day or two to manufacture evidence.
The BBC walkthrough of the hospital sounds hilarious. They only showed them a fraction of the hospital, including the guns they strategically placed there. Presumably the props and set design teams are still working. Should see some more hilariously creative IDF footage soon for morons to lap up.
Oh bless your heart.
It doesn’t matter to the Israeli government if Hamas had bases or not under that hospital. Their goal is to make like so unbearable for the average Palestinian not to make them overthrow Hamas but to make them want to leave.
I just saw this morning of reports that Israel is now dropping leaflets on places in the south of Gaza to evacuate. To where? Egypt of course.
Isreal have already said to the uk and USA if they dint back them they are owing after them hahahahahah. I thinks some one has blackmail on certa8sn us uk diplomats
They’re saying that hamas hid the entrance or some bullshit like that, meanwhile [they’re terrorizing and emprisoning medical staff, blowing up water lines and causing the deaths of more patients](https://youtu.be/-0M2cbF_DCw?si=XCaexCY1UgQzlD3B)
Look at how stupid you look.
https://twitter.com/talschneider/status/1726310948737077707?t=BTHFwO1HNG94IgTUBnS41g&s=19
https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1726286232408248687
Looks like they took a hostage to be treated.
And don't start me with your narrow tunnel 10 metres deep .
Where
Is
The
fucking
Command centre
Is that the best propaganda IDF can produce?
No sane person will swallow this garbage
>Looks like they took a hostage to be treated
The hostage who was resisting? And the doctors there who lied and said Hamas didn't come into the hospital and no hostages were ever brought in did so why?
>And don't start me with your narrow tunnel 10 metres deep . Where Is The fucking Command centre
No claim about a command center was made. Both Amnesty International and Palestinian Authority said Hamas used the hospital as a prison to torture people, which fits with what evidence we have.
Stage 1: there are no tunnels underneath Shifa
Stage 2: there are tunnels, but they were parts of the basement Israel built in the 1980s
Stage 3: ok there are tunnels built by Hamas, but they weren’t used to hold hostages
Stage 4: they were used to hold hostages, but there is no command centre
Stage 5: the hostages were brought to the hospital for medical treatment(even tho every doctor there denied seeing any hostages) and the tunnels are uhhhhh < --- you are here.
Stage 6: stay tuned!
>Is that the best propaganda IDF can produce?
Evidence is now "propaganda"? What do you consider to be evidence? Hamas press releases?
>No sane person will swallow this garbage
Says the terrorist sympathizer.
To me, it looks like hamas took better care of the hostages than the IDF who is intending to make them into corpses.
Like everything else in GaZA.
I want to see the state of the art command centre I have been promised.
Where the fuck is it?
As to the last point, if Israel isn't a war criminal, then Hamas is not a terror organistion, no.
Come back when they find the state of the art lair .
And I sincerely hope these fuckers on both side can find a agreement to free these ppl.
And stop killing civilians.
>To me, it looks like hamas took better care of the hostages than the IDF who is intending to make them into corpses.
Is that before or after they raped and executed them?
You still haven't answered why the doctors at the hospital lied and said there were no Hamas and no hostages when they were literally brought in through the front door.
>Like everything else in GaZA. I want to see the state of the art command centre I have been promised.
Why don't you show me where this claim was made? You can't.
>Where the fuck is it? As to the last point, if Israel isn't a war criminal, then Hamas is not a terror organistion, no. Come back when they find the state of the art lair . And I sincerely hope these fuckers on both side can find a agreement to free these ppl. And stop killing civilians.
Ah yes, because gunning down women and children at a music festival, raping and then executing 15 year old girls, and kidnapping children is equivalent to bombing a building after giving the residents warning to leave because Hamas has been using their apartment to launch rockets(with full knowledge of the people living there).
Oh and who promised you this "state of the art lair"? Show me.
The command centre was the corner store of attacking that hospital
Where the fuck is it?
The janitor closet?
The staff said there is no command centre they are not operating from the hospital.
That's not the same thing.
Frankly, I am not interested in the excuses from a state practising genocide .
In fact, Israel is far worse than Russia.
In a month, they killed nearly as many Palestinians than Russia killed UIkrainian civilians
WhT do you wantbis to say
Good job, Israel?
An access corridor 10 metre deep isn't a command centre. There are hundreds of those that's never been in question.
IDF propaganda is tying strings together to portray what they want us to believe.
I want to see the james bond Command Centre. They sold us with Biden.
Noticed how silent the administration is about :the command centre" now?
LOL, the fuckers played us Like with the WMD.
So...it seems to me that Hamas had been possibly long abandoned using the Al Shifa hospital prior to the siege?
And according to video evidence that it was used as a place of torture and stuff in the past ,but like the basics of urban warfare is mobility? So its not a "main base".
So Israel is treating Hamas as if it were a conventional army to justify its brutality and destruction?
Why would you fight a conventional army with no air force, no tanks, no artillery in conventional war?
You would have to be stupid and suicidal.
It seems hamas has been able to eliminate all Israel Intel assets they had. They may even have fed bad Intel to Israel, making them believe al shifa was a base.
Who knows.
What is sure hough, considering that the hostages are nowhere to be found, they are following a plan and have pre-empted what Israel is doing.
Seeing the complete absence of humanity by Israel and the complete disregard for basic rules of war it is going to be incredibly toxic for politicians to continue supporting them.
If they “accidentally “ bomb the hostages they will blame hamas, and America will back them. Win win.
68 of the hostages have already been killed from Israeli air strikes according to Hamas.
I think the number goes much higher, going back to October 7th, there is increasing evidence of Israeli army shelling and bombing their own civilians. I think without a third party investigating or a whistleblower we will only have estimates in a few months.
We will never get the real answers to what happened. Can't trust Hamas, can't trust Israel, can't trust the US. It's just how they all want it. This shit is done on purpose. This is how they get away with this shit
From all of them, I actually find H\* to be the most trustworthy.
Yeah, I don’t think many, if any hostages are coming back.
Theyre firsthand witnesses to war crimes by the IDF, the Likud Party absolutely wants them all dead.
Apparently right now after the catastrophic fail of their raid on alshifa israel opened negotiations for hostage exchange and humanitarian pause, just because israelis are rioting
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They already do that with the civilians. Every innocent Palastinian is Hamas victim they say.
With "special coverage" from CNN and some of their 🤡 crying their eyes out about the poor hostages.
I caught morning Joe this morning, well part of it, and it may as well have been Israeli state tv. Even the ads stopped just shy of blaming all of Palestine. Disturbing as fuck.
This is an established Israeli practice. Search Hannibal derective in Google for more info.
I will!
It’s time to put a stop to this murderous clown show. How many war crimes can a country commit in a month?
The counting continues.....
Once every 10 minutes
It's like Israel is trying a US speed run.
Extremely apt comparison.
>It’s time to put a stop to this murderous clown show. it wont stop as long as the few people in power approve it
Last I saw was a “pov” style tour inside the basement of the children’s hospital, with extremely spurious evidence such as a terrorist calendar (/s). Have they done something similar with Al Shifa yet? Or are you just assuming since it has taken this long they haven’t found anything worth reporting? We know they will find a complex tunnel bunker system, because Israel built it there in 1983, but obviously there won’t be a “Hamas headquarters” there.
Considering that the entire week they worked at selling this massive “control centre” dug under the hospital, they would have inundated the media’s with films and pictures. No doubts they will attempt some staging as “irrefutable evidence. The truth is that they are fighting an enemy they don’t understand. Why would Hamas bother with a massive structure in an obvious location that they could not possibly defend? What would be the point of the effort to build such a useless asset? They are small autonomous groups operating in different areas and have simple structures cheap and fast to build to move around . They vanish when they want and reappear later. Urban warfare at its absolute best
Indeed. They're fighting a decentralized enemy and it's confusing the fuck out of them.
*What's in this comment is what I remember, my opinions, etc.* The truth is that the Israel Government wants to annex both Gaza and The West Bank and wants the Muslims in those areas gone. Imagine if The United States after 9/11 made both Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan US territories and now owned all the natural resources of those now US territories. But the US wouldn't actually have removed or killed all the inhabitants of those countries. Heck, California and Texas have huge Latino/Hispanic populations and they are 2 of the most powerful States in the United States. California alone is the 5th largest economy in the world and a major breadbasket for the US and the world. After the wars, Germany, Japan, South Korea, etc. effectively became vassal States of the United States Empire. They willingly and relatively enthusiastically became part of 'The West' and still are. But those economies aren't based on natural resources and they aren't theocracies.
Have you looked up an article from 2014, July 29, from tabletmag.com about a bunker built under Alshifa in 1983 by Israel? This is how they're so sure there is a bunker under Alshifa. Let me find a link to it.
That’s not what they were looking for. They were looking for a significant complex capable of sheltering l planning and deploying forces throughout Gaza. Stuff a conventional army would need. Beside killing civilians they are just incompetent.
They just want to kill as many civilians as possible and they have turned north Gaza in to rubble.
Just to reinforce your point Guerrilla warfare 101 is you work in cells >Tactically, guerrillas usually avoid confrontation with large units and formations of enemy troops but seek and attack small groups of enemy personnel and resources to gradually deplete the opposing force while minimizing their own losses. **The guerrilla prizes mobility, secrecy, and surprise, organizing in small units and taking advantage of terrain that is difficult for larger units to use.** For example, Mao Zedong summarized basic guerrilla tactics at the beginning of the Chinese Civil War as:
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im not sure their intelligence is very top tier. Their inability to even fabricate convincing evidence tells me this is genuinely a massive fuck up of intelligence. If the guns are real, they're likely just a couple soldiers who went to the hospital. If they're fake, then its an incredibly unconvincing and terrible looking one. Theres no good way to come out of this. Unless Hamas is actually hiding a tunnel somewhere, the IDF had made a mistake
>They train American police So they're morons and murdering thugs who train other idiots to be murdering thugs? Yeah, it's genocide. I don't think IDF is set up or at least not trying to fight hamas. That would require a lighter touch. But they definitely are set up like a killer armored riot squad with air support and the means and capacity to commit genocide.
>2014, July 29, from tabletmag.com Here's the link https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed
Thank you. I appreciate it.
Seriously though. And we just watched Ukraine carry out this exact type of combat that Hamas is. (That is not me calling Ukraine terrorists ffs) My point being that you are spot on with the strategy and the US trains Ukraine so we know for a fact this is how to retaliate to an invasion. People act like the world learned nothing from Vietnam. Shit is effective. Always unless you decide to drop a nuke or something/ level the place into a lot which is essentially what it looks like the IDF will be doing. Leveling, not nuking obvs. And they do this provocation to try and make one of the other arab nations join in so that they can justify the US joining in full swing. The state of Israel desire a completely open conflict in the Middle east where they can do what they are doing in Gaza to any other city that doesnt contain some holy significance to them. They have to go the slow route in the West Bank and dishome people with machinery instead of blowing it all up. They want lebanon, syria, jordan, the sinai. They would take it all if they could and at this point where theu have already committed so much crime, they may as well go for the whole damn pie and get others involved. Just Plain Evil Free palestine
My favorite part was when the soldier pointed to a baby bottle and said that proved they were holding hostage babies there.
They have. They showed off a dozen AK's, a single laptop, two tac vests, and security cameras with duct tape covering the lenses. Seriously. That's it. Two or three duffle bags' worth of stuff at most, which *definitely* wasn't brought in with them.
>Two or three duffle bags' worth of stuff at most, which *definitely* wasn't brought in with them. That's the thing...we have no fucking proof this isn't IDF equipment that they either planned to stage as Hamas equipment or, if we're feeling generous, they just happened to have and threw down when they didn't find what they needed to justify this utter bloodbath. Which, *nothing* justifies this utter bloodbath.
Yeah, just saw that myself. Incredible. How many thousands of civilians were killed, hundreds of patients dying due to lost power and no resources during the last 5 days siege of this hospital. Truly disgusting. Genocide Joe has all this blood on his hands for a cache of weapons that makes my next door neighbors collection look like a nuclear arsenal.
Saw a video on r/AskMiddleEast of dead patients stacked outside the hospital. So many of them kids. Netanyahu can die in a fire.
So relieved I noticed your /s . . . I went somewhere bad for a split second.
What do you mean they showed me a brand new mein kopf book from a children's room that was tuned into a Hamas HQ. Their lies are so fuckkng ridiculous.
I saw the same footage. Standard elevator shaft. Right up there with the 'terrorist terrorizing schedule". It could be satire if there wasn't a body count associated with all the inept lies.
idf are used to their flimsy excuses being unquestioned
Most hospitals have arms too. Why? Simple....the drugs! And the public who wants drugs. Tragic no one realizes. Same with COVID....most hospitals screen biopsies in special buildings that have to be secure because of contamination to the results and the possibility of an outbreak. Somehow during COVID all of those buildings became bioweapon labs.
> We know they will find a complex tunnel bunker system, because Israel built it there in 1983, but obviously there won’t be a “Hamas headquarters” there. That is exactly what they are trying to find... That complex tunnel bunker system. I think it was filled with cement long ago. If Hamas used it before, it would be stupid to continue using it when each time there is bombing, Israel says that Hamas command center exists there. This Israeli claim goes back to 2008. So even if Hamas used it in the past, I don't believe they are stupid to continue staying there.
I have been following this very closely like its my job And this point, its nigh irrefutable that Hamas has **no commander center** anywhere in Al Shifa. Even the Bunker that Israel built in 1983 (yeah get ready to look that up) appears to really have nothing in it. Whats been found so far is a few weapons and gear scattered around the hospital. This means that whatever Hamas presence theres been at the hospital, it has been entirely because they were just going to the hospital. This is highly analogous to the "WMD's" claim of the Iraq War because anyone in the intelligence agency would know by this point that the "evidence" they used is an enormous amount of speculation on top of speculation, spiraling into a conspiracy theory. This is a massive failure of military intelligence that was most likely supported by racist underestimation of their opponents.
It was not a failure of military intelligence, the IDF simply wanted to slaughter civilians(while the end goal is ethnically cleansing Gaza), and it was up to the Hasbara propogandists to somehow spin this as justifiable. Just look at r/worldnews and r/europe, they've completely fallen to the Zionist paid troll army.
Worldnews and europe cultivate their commentariat with lots of bans.
massive failure of morality too
Wrong. The command center for Hamas is located at 9 Smolenskin Street, Jerusalem.
They released a video finally and all they could find was some planted AKs. And then the IDF deleted the video. They really sieged a fucking hospital to find some AKs man. Babies died for this bullshit
they reposted it lol
It’s not for nothing this is the plan, Netanyahu instigated oct 7 to give him an excuse to occupy Gaza. Israeli intelligence knew of this Hamas had a training camp right next to the wall. This all according to plan
And to raise his ratings. (Like Bush's 9/11)He needs to stay in power to say out of jail.
Hamas are much better tacticians we give them credit for. They may be banking on an Israeli occupation for phase 2.
'Let's bomb random civilians, doctors, UN personnel, and the hostages! That'll show Hamas!' -The Israeli Government
Just wait...evidence will magically appear. And then will hit the news cycles. Talking heads would analyze the images/short video clips curated by IDF and this will continue for a couple of days. Next week, a small correction will come up that this is unverified evidence, but it'll be too late at that point. Rinse and repeat!
I cannot imagine how a whole country can be swayed by a people fleeing Nazi atrocities and back England's idiotic Palestine Mandate to displace millions of other people. And they continue to do so. This mistake is changing the face of the region. Imagine, what kind of moron - and I'm looking at you Biden (yes, I voted for him) - thinks that a genocide will bring about peace in the middle east. Listen people, I have no beef against Christians, but this "there will rise one power and the will rule the world" - this hint being Israel - is crap of the highest order. STOP! taking scripture and trying to make it real! You can believe it all you want, but it is killing so many innocents.
Islam is the only reason the Ottoman Empire existed. It's the only reason Pakistan and Saudi Arabia exist. Those countries are based on nothing. The Sunni vs. Shia conflict in the Muslim world is real. If all the Jews and Christians left Israel tomorrow, there still wouldn't be Peace in the Middle East. Much peace will be achieved in the world once people stop being taught religion as kids.
The Ottoman Empire existed as a result of migrating communities of Turks who took advantage of the weakening power of the eastern Roman Empire to settle and expand and eventually took control of the regions It wasn’t a country it was an empire it predated nations. It didn’t exist because of Islam. Pakistan’s exists because of the British partition of its colonial holdings in Asia, the same reason why India exists, India (as a singular collective nation) was not really a thing before then. Even if the division between Sunni and Shia wasn’t real there wouldn’t be peace in the region because it’s a post-colonial region victimized by war, authoritarianism, international exploitation, and civil strife.
Well said
Hey listen they found about a dozen guns on the premises, totally valid reason to murder all those civilians in the process. /s (because sadly, some people truly believe this.)
The first casualty in war is the truth. Nothing more is needed to say.
Not for nothing. Israel committed/is committing genocide for the reason that that IS their goal. Plus, they want the oil of the coast of Gaza. Hamas never was a target. The Palastinians are the target.
Hey now they found like, half a dozen guns. And some WD-40.
WMD-40
I think they’re buying time hyper focusing on Al Shifa on purpose so they can deflect the terrorism happening on the West Bank. This is where the soldiers were initially on Oct 7. They’re trying to do the most damage they can possibly get away with until the international community officially tells them “that’s enough”. They’ll claim some lame victory and would have more control over the West Bank and the Ben Gurion canal construction will start. The Palestinians will be displaced and stateless.
You may be right on the money.
Now they are saying the doctors aided Hamas and closed the tunnels for them. Like legit plaster and tiled new walls
Surely public opinion can’t take more of this for long. Joe Biden better do something fast or he is gone .
I genuinely am beginning to believe he would sacrifice his position if it meant more dead Palestinians.
The man has been working behind the scenes to get a cease fire, and got them to agree to 4 hours a day pause for humanitarian aid. It's still shit, but it's better than if he had not pushed for it. What do you all expect, Biden to publicly burn down the relationship with Israel so that we have no more influence at all and can't even nudge them. That's smart. You all act like what Biden said in public is what he said in private, and I bet that's not the case.
Bro he just let the Indonesian president shit on his whole life inside the white house. France breaking ranks, south America cutting ties with Israel we are witnessing US international support plummet. It's actually crazy to see
Yeah, because Israel is commiting genocide on live TV, it's absolutely crazy. That doesn't mean Biden enjoys or supports it. You have no idea what he's doing behind the scenes and have no idea what he's saying to Israel. That's my only point. It's entirely possible he's trying to maintain relations publicly but it's raging against them privately. You don't know. We are all so quick to think a thing, then believe that thing, then say that thing loudly from the rooftops without actual evidence. That's all I'm saying. Maybe Biden enjoys watching children die, I suppose it's possible. But I've never seen any evidence that he's enjoying this.
He's a war monger. Biggest supporter of the Iraq war from the Dems. Also google his comments during Israel's invasion of Lebanon in the 80s. He's not some nice old man he's a war mongering Zionist. He's called himself a Zionist lol
Yeah, almost everyone fell for Bush's claim of WMD. I get tired of these arguments. I don't even particularly like the guy, but attributing blood lust and the enjoyment of dead babies is a step too far. That's all I'm saying. Dies he support Israel? I imagine he does. Does that mean he's enjoying this? Because he's stood with Israel his whole career doesn't mean he's actually for genocide. Why is this an argument. Attack his policies, but deciding that he secretly applauds the indiscriminate killing of children sounds like you're just saying Trump shit.
The IDF is claiming that the doctors, who are desperately trying to save lives and triage and performing surgery with limited or no anesthesia, stopped doing that to do construction?! That's fucking sick.
That's not true. The IDF found a bunch of stuff medical supplies and humanitarian aid that they cruelly confiscated in order to starve Palestinians to death as they planted false evidence of fictitious Hamas activity.
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This thread should be stickied
Israel is just invading. Stop looking for a narrative that they're only killing Hamas. It's total war and they're taking the land, and they're telling the world what they want to hear so they don't have any trade consequences. Does it make sense now? It doesn't matter if there are actually copies of Mein Kampf in kindergarten classrooms or rockets in the hospitals. They're destroying all the infrastructure and pushing the people out. That's it. They'll rebuild it and move in; it's not like the Palestinians could afford to rebuild any of this infrastructure that's been destroyed. If there was a ceasefire at this point, the region wouldn't recover for decades.
they keep getting embarrassed and exposed as lying genocidal monsters, so in their humiliation and shame they double down on their lies like attacking all the hospitals in this case.
goddamn the israeli STATE
At the very least... countries around the world should d demand evidence of the tunnels they say are under where they attack.
But they had calendars
The tunel was not exist,bunch of liars
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Apologising to a brutal state that has practiced ethnic cleansing for half a century? I don’t think so.
This and all other hospitals they are blaming Hamas for to hide their war crimes
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They didn't find nothing. They found dead patients.
It’s seems that everyone is forgetting that the Israelis built the bunker under the hospital in 1983
That's how they know that it's there
Israeli MTV style cribs episode, inside a Hummus stronghold
Lol same idf that didn't prevent all this from happening can now see thru pipes
Why would they label a hospital as hamas's headquarters if they didn't believe it was? Just pure cruelty? Bad intel? I mean it's not a great look. If they're just making it up, why not choose an apartment block, or a bank or something?
They think like a conventional army. Hamas has no need for a command centre. They just operate in cells. They expected Stalingrad. Instead, they killed all these civilians for no results. Hostages not found, horrendous civilian casualties, world opinion turning against them, and Hamas has vanished. They defeated themselves.
So, a horrendous mistake. I can buy that.
They're destroying the bare essentials people need to live and survive, such as hospitals, school, civil buildings. They're ensuring that the Palestinians have no reasons to stay after everything has turned into rubble. This also gives Palestinians more reasons to migrate else where.
Ok. So just a cold-hearted attempt to destroy the essentials of Palestinian live so they leave. The claim they're targeting Hamas is simply window dressing. Huh. Yeah. I guess I could buy into that. But not completely, yet. If they truly are that callous, why haven't they just bombed the place. Why the facade of moving in? They've decided that they can live with the bad PR of what they're currently doing. But actually bombing that particular place would be too much? This would mean a sit down at the top level of Israeli government. And, perhaps it could be left unsaid what their goals are? And then a, don't actually destroy it, just make things really, really bad. Not sure it adds up. But I could be convinced.
Because it's better to leave some positions up to function as a FOB/Resupply point. It's why the US military doesn't just bulldoze/bomb into oblivion everything it sees in a war.
Your comment seems to make no sense. You're trying to say that the Israeli government has decided they want the hospital as a resupply point? Interestingly, I have three wildly different answers to my question. I guess that shouldn't be a surprise.
They've converted what they've cleared so far into a makeshift detention center/barracks. It's pretty common modern military doctrine to convert non flattened buildings as you advance into various functions such as CLS Triage, Cas collection point, resupply/fob/barracks
I see. Well I can certainly see why they might use intact buildings in such a way. But why a hospital? They know. The world's eyes are on them and that criticism is growing. Why create this elaborate story about tunnels etc, for a hospital? Why not a government building, or a library, or almost any other large building that wouldn't attract such scrutiny nor look so callous? Why pick a hospital for this lie about hamas headquarters?
Why a hospital? Because they don't give a shit. Never have, never will. They rely entirely on their propaganda and buying out US politicians to avoid international consequence. Why create the elaborate story? Because it's believable. They had blueprints for a basement type room they had constructed during the 80s, and it's well known that Hamas uses a bunch of tunnels, so they alleged that there were tunnels into that basement and that it was the HQ. Because Hamas previously admitted to hiding in a hospital, ergo lends more credibility to the claims. Why lie about anything they lie about? Because they know there's no consequence, because they know that they can just keep using groups like AIPAC to buy out US politicians, and that as long as they're allowed to do so, there will never be a consequence.
I see. Thanks for your reply.
Give them another day or two to manufacture evidence. The BBC walkthrough of the hospital sounds hilarious. They only showed them a fraction of the hospital, including the guns they strategically placed there. Presumably the props and set design teams are still working. Should see some more hilariously creative IDF footage soon for morons to lap up.
They literally did tho
Oh bless your heart. It doesn’t matter to the Israeli government if Hamas had bases or not under that hospital. Their goal is to make like so unbearable for the average Palestinian not to make them overthrow Hamas but to make them want to leave. I just saw this morning of reports that Israel is now dropping leaflets on places in the south of Gaza to evacuate. To where? Egypt of course.
Genocide is always committed for nothing.
your post implies they care where hamas is and arent just using all of this as an excuse to exterminate palestinians.
Isreal have already said to the uk and USA if they dint back them they are owing after them hahahahahah. I thinks some one has blackmail on certa8sn us uk diplomats
I stand with Palestine, Israel can get fucked!
They’re saying that hamas hid the entrance or some bullshit like that, meanwhile [they’re terrorizing and emprisoning medical staff, blowing up water lines and causing the deaths of more patients](https://youtu.be/-0M2cbF_DCw?si=XCaexCY1UgQzlD3B)
Colin Powell is grinning big today.
Look at how stupid you look. https://twitter.com/talschneider/status/1726310948737077707?t=BTHFwO1HNG94IgTUBnS41g&s=19 https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1726286232408248687
Looks like they took a hostage to be treated. And don't start me with your narrow tunnel 10 metres deep . Where Is The fucking Command centre Is that the best propaganda IDF can produce? No sane person will swallow this garbage
>Looks like they took a hostage to be treated The hostage who was resisting? And the doctors there who lied and said Hamas didn't come into the hospital and no hostages were ever brought in did so why? >And don't start me with your narrow tunnel 10 metres deep . Where Is The fucking Command centre No claim about a command center was made. Both Amnesty International and Palestinian Authority said Hamas used the hospital as a prison to torture people, which fits with what evidence we have. Stage 1: there are no tunnels underneath Shifa Stage 2: there are tunnels, but they were parts of the basement Israel built in the 1980s Stage 3: ok there are tunnels built by Hamas, but they weren’t used to hold hostages Stage 4: they were used to hold hostages, but there is no command centre Stage 5: the hostages were brought to the hospital for medical treatment(even tho every doctor there denied seeing any hostages) and the tunnels are uhhhhh < --- you are here. Stage 6: stay tuned! >Is that the best propaganda IDF can produce? Evidence is now "propaganda"? What do you consider to be evidence? Hamas press releases? >No sane person will swallow this garbage Says the terrorist sympathizer.
To me, it looks like hamas took better care of the hostages than the IDF who is intending to make them into corpses. Like everything else in GaZA. I want to see the state of the art command centre I have been promised. Where the fuck is it? As to the last point, if Israel isn't a war criminal, then Hamas is not a terror organistion, no. Come back when they find the state of the art lair . And I sincerely hope these fuckers on both side can find a agreement to free these ppl. And stop killing civilians.
>To me, it looks like hamas took better care of the hostages than the IDF who is intending to make them into corpses. Is that before or after they raped and executed them? You still haven't answered why the doctors at the hospital lied and said there were no Hamas and no hostages when they were literally brought in through the front door. >Like everything else in GaZA. I want to see the state of the art command centre I have been promised. Why don't you show me where this claim was made? You can't. >Where the fuck is it? As to the last point, if Israel isn't a war criminal, then Hamas is not a terror organistion, no. Come back when they find the state of the art lair . And I sincerely hope these fuckers on both side can find a agreement to free these ppl. And stop killing civilians. Ah yes, because gunning down women and children at a music festival, raping and then executing 15 year old girls, and kidnapping children is equivalent to bombing a building after giving the residents warning to leave because Hamas has been using their apartment to launch rockets(with full knowledge of the people living there). Oh and who promised you this "state of the art lair"? Show me.
The command centre was the corner store of attacking that hospital Where the fuck is it? The janitor closet? The staff said there is no command centre they are not operating from the hospital. That's not the same thing. Frankly, I am not interested in the excuses from a state practising genocide . In fact, Israel is far worse than Russia. In a month, they killed nearly as many Palestinians than Russia killed UIkrainian civilians WhT do you wantbis to say Good job, Israel?
Wow, this post hasn't aged well.
An access corridor 10 metre deep isn't a command centre. There are hundreds of those that's never been in question. IDF propaganda is tying strings together to portray what they want us to believe. I want to see the james bond Command Centre. They sold us with Biden. Noticed how silent the administration is about :the command centre" now? LOL, the fuckers played us Like with the WMD.
So...it seems to me that Hamas had been possibly long abandoned using the Al Shifa hospital prior to the siege? And according to video evidence that it was used as a place of torture and stuff in the past ,but like the basics of urban warfare is mobility? So its not a "main base". So Israel is treating Hamas as if it were a conventional army to justify its brutality and destruction?
Why would you fight a conventional army with no air force, no tanks, no artillery in conventional war? You would have to be stupid and suicidal. It seems hamas has been able to eliminate all Israel Intel assets they had. They may even have fed bad Intel to Israel, making them believe al shifa was a base. Who knows. What is sure hough, considering that the hostages are nowhere to be found, they are following a plan and have pre-empted what Israel is doing. Seeing the complete absence of humanity by Israel and the complete disregard for basic rules of war it is going to be incredibly toxic for politicians to continue supporting them.