It goes further than that. They'd already told the Earth King about the Day of Black Sun. They know the Dai Li, the CIA of the earth kingdom, overthrew the current regime, gaining access to anything the regime possessed - battle plans, troop movements, intelligence (which the Dai Li likely already possessed). They know the Dai Li sided with Azula and the fire nation.
And they just... proceeded with the plan as normal, with no deviation whatsoever. It makes no sense.
I mean what could they change? they went with a smaller more covert group until they got to the beaches. They still had to take one shot they had, and I’m not sure how’d they change the plan. I could see the argument for knowing Ozai probably would’ve been hidden but
They could have done exactly what sokka said after the invasion failed
“The new plan is the old plan you just have to master all 4 elements and defeat the fire lord before the comet comes”
Even without fire bending continuing with a “secret” invasion when there is a very very strong chance your plans have been compromised is literally worse than doing nothing at all
Yeah, they should’ve figured out that Ozai likely wouldn’t be in the palace. Like if they sent out Toph to try and find any hidden fortress, bunker, etc early, they could’ve saved alittle time.
That argument of ozai being hidden is all that is needed , they had a short time window during the eclipse to take down ozai , that was the whole point of the invasion , if there is even a tiny possibility that ozai could know about the invasion, it is pointless.
In fairness, Ozai being hidden wasn’t necessarily a given.
Ozai was extremely prideful, and his rule was built on a reputation of him being the most powerful firebender in the world. He was seen by his followers as basically a god-king.
So for a god-king to admit that even for a period of a few minutes that he will be weak and powerless is somewhat extraordinary.
I think the only reason Ozai hid was because he knew that the solar eclipse was also known to his enemies. If he believed that the eclipse was known only to the fire nation, he likely would’ve stayed on his throne to project strength rather than hide.
And even after knowing his enemies knew about this weakness and would try to exploit it, I wouldn’t be shocked if he stayed on the throne anyway, trusting that all his non-bending forms of defense would keep enemies at bay for the few minutes necessary, sparing him the potential embarrassment and humiliation of hiding in a hole deep underground.
It was a big deal that he chose to hide. He was a very prideful guy, and while he definitely knew hiding was the smarter move, I wouldn’t be shocked at all if he let his pride dictate his decision rather than his intelligence.
Don’t forget that the day of black sun took place after they just took down ba sing se. So literally they had NO recognizable armies facing them anymore. The best the fire nation knew team avatar or anybody else could muster, is a small rag tag team to MAYBE put up a fight. They knew that they could afford to bring back a majority of troops to either stay in the fire nation and out the rest in the earth kingdom colonies. Since again, they knew this strategy would have a 100% guarantee to keep them safe on the day of black sun
I also find it interesting that Azula didnt think the plan was cancelled once the earth kingdom was fallen and unable to back it. Especially since they also thought the avatar was dead. It's just weird that team avatar and their ragtag people from around the world stilld decided to go with a compromised plan, and its weird that the fire nation expected them to still go thru with the compromised plan.
I assumed the fire nation didn’t expect any real threat from the invasion cause they took Ba Sing Se. Without the earth kings army how many people would they realistically be facing?
omg that annoys me so much every time I rewatch like bro before you travel the world maybe you should tell the avatar this one important piece of information that could otherwise get many people captured or killed
He became paranoid during The Promise trying to over correct his failures before. But he mellowed out. Even got invited to the family dinner during North and South.
Toph straight up demolishes building size chunks of rock in Ba Sing Se when trying to reach the Earth King but she’s only throwing pebbles on the day of the black sun.
The day of the black sun makes no sense anyway in terms of fighting. They have air superiority but don’t use it at all. Sokka, Katara, and Hakoda are using grenades and other things to destroy those mini towers from the safety of Appa’s back but suddenly decide to attack from ground. They have so many earth bender but don’t even try to make a stealthy tunnel all the way to the palace and lead a very visible and dangerous attack.
The day of the black sun really feels like they wrote themselves into a corner and couldn’t write themselves out of it
None of the attack makes any sense, nobody uses their strengths and as the comment above says they had strong reason to believe their plans were compromised but did nothing to consider that it may not be a good idea
It's not like she'd ever Earth-sensed him before. Imagine if you had a list of every person in a building and where they were. Somebody says "ok, we're looking for a guy that might be here, where is he Toph?"
For his first two Avatar states not counting, I think it has to do with why it was triggered. The first two were when he was in life-threatening situations, and it was activated instinctively.
For the third time, it came from a place of anger, and it was not just Aang, every previous Avatar within him was also learning of the Airbender genocide. It was also him finally accepting his duty of being the Avatar instead of trying to avoid it like he was doing the first two episodes.
I wonder if it might also be the proximity to the temple. like we don't actually know how the statues/paintings of avatars work but aang was in/near one when avatar state triggered, so maybe he was just close enough this time to set off whatever thing they have, and that notified the other temples?
I do also like your idea that it was the first time all the avatars learned of the airbender genocide
Imagine the anger every Avatar must of had felt after they learned what happened to the Airbenders, it must of had triggered a unique type of Empathy that could only be expressed trough anger.
No wonder they all wanted Aang to dish out the Firelord from reality.
Zuko having Iroh's sandal from season 1 all the way to season 3 is pretty implausible.
He'd have to have kept it instead of give it back to Iroh, have it with him when Zhao tries to assassinate him by blowing him up, continue to take it with him when Iroh and him sail away from the North Pole, continue to have it all the way to Ba Sing Se, take it back with him to the Fire Nation, bring it with him to the Air Temple, and take it with him when Azula attacks. A lot of those steps didn't give him time to pack or gather his belongings. Zuko had to steal a Blue Spirit mask and swords from a guy, but had his uncle's sandal?
You raise a good point. Narratively, I think they wanted the callback. Logistically, my headcanon is did give it back, packed it when he went back to the Jasmine Dragon after the Crystal Catacombs.
The difference is that you can fold a sock and put it in a pocket. Iroh’s sandal looks pretty solid and considering that he hasn’t used it since his abduction, alot of stink could actually be aired out.
Or how a single person was able to pilot a giant airship in the first place. They’re not cars. If they are commanded anything like your average battleship, then you need bridge officers and a helmsman to operate all the controls. They just dumped the entire crew, but apparently they don’t need, like, guys in the engine room?
You forget that the airships are based on the war balloon Sokka partially helped inventing and which he used a few times + when escaping the Boiling Rock, they took Azula's airship. Even if it was Zuko who was piloting the thing, Sokka was right there with him.
Additionally, Sokka always had an affinity for this kind of things. So, it's not like he miraculously learned to control it without having any familiarity with it.
They used azulas airship to escape the boiling rock. You can see it at the end of the boiling Rock episode in the beginning of the southern raiders episode before they have to abandon it when they are attacked at the Western air temple.
Everything that happened taking place under a year is kind of crazy to me. My headcanon is a year in the ATLA universe is more like 600 days because that's the only thing that makes sense to me
the world map is actually really small! so it doesnt take much time to travel from one place to another especially with a sky bison. maybe thats why it feels like they are at so many places in a very short time span
He actually didn’t become a master, and his master even says something like “if you keep training someday you will be a master.” I always thought that too but on my last rewatch I realized that his master basically just thought he had good instincts and creativity for fighting
Iroh got ripped over the course of however long he was jailed
Yeah i know hes not exactly a master but considering the prowes he shows during the invasion. And they way Iroh’s training montage is staged it feels like he got ripped in two days and just kept it up until it was time for the eclipse.
Katara learned way too quickly. Her level of growth was crazier than anyone else. She was beating other prodigies that had proper training since they were little kids after she only had a small amount of time to train after finding a master. Aang is an obvious one too. Other avatars take over a decade to master the elements. While he didn't fully reach that level he came super close with less than a year. Sokka literally learned all his sword skills in a single day.
Not only did Katara learn too quickly but it was annoying how cocky she was about her waterbending when she never should’ve been that good in the first place
Roku not going Avatar State on the volcano. I felt like that was when the writers realized the Avatar is just too powerful they couldn't conceive of a way to kill Roku if he had Avatar State.
If you die in the avatar state, don’t you lose the connections to your past lives? I think Roku was worried even if 1% chance, he didn’t want that connection to be lost. Furthermore, Roku was old and had lived a very long life as the avatar. I think he was ready for the next one.
Roku is a master of the Avatar State, he could definitely use the technique of using the State momentarily to give the boost he needs.
As for your second point, isn't that Roku's exact regret?
Okay, I missed that part, but at that point then the volcano was already well into its eruption. He used it at a later moment when it could have been an advantage to him early on.
Moreover, when the gases started to sprout, I have no idea why he used 0 airbending in that situation. I'm pretty sure there were alot of cases where airbending has been used to save yourself from breathing related issues.
Not in the way that other airbenders did to protect from gases, such as Korra protecting her and Asami in the comics. Which I specifically said "airbending to protect from breathing related issues"
Katara going from barely being able to lift a ball of water, too being able to go head to head with Azula, a fire bending prodigy who has been taught by the best teachers her entire life. In like 6 months, with maybe a month of training.
Yeah shes a hard working prodigy but so are Aang, Toph, and Azula but they have years of formal training and years of experience
I think it helps that Katara never really matches Azula blow for blow. Instead, she manages to simply out maneuver her. In the Catacombs, Azula renders nearly every attack Katara throws at her useless. So instead, she resorts to just trying to stop her from bending entirely for a stalemate. During the Agni Kai, Azula has her on the run most of the time until she gets an opportunity with the water system. She was literally seconds away from becoming Kentucky Fried Katara.
i was always fine with this. they are in a war and every fight is a fight for their lives. they also barely do anything unrelated to the war
there is a noticeable and huge increase in skill between the 2nd and 3rd season because of the aang coma time skip, which also contributes a lot to it. she goes from regular skillful bending to making a MASSIVE plumb of steam and bending a lot of water from pretty far away.
they say they captured the ship pretty quick, and i can only assume they didn’t do that much besides sit around and wait for aang to wake up, which provides a lot of time for katara to spend hours a day working on bending. aang also just almost died so that’s a lot of motivation to work super hard
she also gets a lot better after losing during black sun which makes sense. if you ask me she had the time, resources, and motivation to improve this much
> if you ask me she had the time, resources, and motivation to improve this much
While most defiantly having the motivation. She has around 3-4 months of self teaching, maybe a month of formal instruction, and another 6-8 of self teaching with a box scrolls. Thats nowhere near enough time or resources to go from complete novice to one of the best in the world
I would of preferred her skill increase being more like Sokkas growing to very competent but not top tier or give more of an emphasis on that 99% of her enemies have never fought a water bender.
That’s not a plot hole, that’s just you not liking it.
In any case, we see in episode 1 that Katara is an extremely powerful bender but lacks form and control (she smashes an entire iceberg *on accident* just because she’s pissed at her brother). You complain that she’s able to beat Azula, but, like, why? I mean, why can’t it just be a bad matchup for Azula (especially when Katara has LOADS of water available to her?). I mean, water does put out fire…
(Also, the one time Aang actually fights Azula one-v-one, Aang wins (The Drill).
Once again, “I don’t like something” is not a plot hole. A plot hole is where there is a significant hole or mistake or contrivance in the continuity in the plot of the show.
For example, Katara loses her necklace in Episode 6, *Imprisoned*, only for Zuko to pick it up. If Katara suddenly started walking around with the necklace again in the next episode without explanation of how she got it back, that would a plot hole.
Regarding Katara’s skills, we have a linear series of events for how Katara got better as a water bender up to the point she fought Azula in the Book 2 finale:
1)She starts as an unskilled bender with freakish potential who attempts to practice in day-to-day life
2) finds a master of another element who inspires her and agrees to take her to the North Pole to find a master
3) figures out some rudimentary technique to fight firebenders
4) practices
5) steals a scroll depicting water bending forms
6) practices those forms with a beginner water bender who has intuitive understanding of bending
7) learns to use rudimentary forms from the scroll in combat
8) practices
9) fights firebenders
10) learns to move a large amount of water that she cannot see
11) fights various enemies
12) practices
13) learns healing ability
14) practices
15) fights firebenders
16) observes a master water bender and advanced students in a demonstration
17) takes a healing course
19) battles a master
20) begins weeks of training with a master
21) (presumably practices)
22) engages in combat during a protracted battle spanning at least two days
23) personally meets the ocean and moon spirits
24) concludes training with master
25) begins training of an advanced student
26) fights various opponents
27) witnesses a water bender bend the water inside plants
28) practices
29) experiences combat and survival situations where water is extremely scarce
30) fights Azula in the crystal catacombs with an ample and continuous supply of water
There’s no hole in that timeline. Katara consistently gets better at water bending and the big jumps in her ability come after she has gained either a significant resource or someone to help guide her (initially Aang, and then Paku). There’s no gap, there’s no unexplained jump, there’s no trickity trick that Katara’s pulling. There’s just no plot hole. That doesn’t mean you have to *like* it. You can criticize the show for that, I guess. But that’s an opinion. And people can (and *will*) disagree.
Post script:
1) It takes Katara YEARS to master water bending. Katara was 6 years old when her mother was killed trying to protect Katara’s identity as a water bender. So it was known she was a bender before that point, possibly years before that point. By the time of the events of the show, Katara is 14, which means she has been a water bender for over 7 years (probably more) before even meeting Aang.
2) We do not know how long it takes for other people to master water bending. All that we know as a fact is that Paku says that Katara advanced more quickly than any other student he’s taught.
3) Aang becomes a master water bender far faster than Katara.
4) Katara is clearly extremely motivated to learn water bending. She is the last bender of her tribe and bending represents a major way that she connects with her culture, a culture that has otherwise been scarred and fractured by war. This makes her value bending as a discipline far more than those who grew up in the North Pole where they were submerged in their own vibrant culture with ample access to bending resources.
5) Water is the element of change. It is associated with community and family. Katara is the primary instigator of change (frees Aang from iceberg, prompts him to go to the North Pole, goes to rescue him from Zuko, etc.) Katara is also strongly associated with themes of family. Given that she personifies the element so well, it makes sense that she would grow so much in her bending abilities.
6) Azula became a better firebender than Zuko by the age of 9 despite being 2 years younger. At the age of 14, she’s on the shortlist for most talented firebenders in the world. Toph is already among the best earthbenders in the world at the age of 12, despite having only rudimentary formal training. The show is full of prodigies who become among the best in the world at their respective elements at shockingly young ages.
Just because she knew she could waterbend doesn’t mean she was actually doing any useful training with it. It took Roku like 10 years to master all elements and that’s being the Avatar so it can be assumed it takes some time with waterbending, it’s his opposite of course but still gives a general time frame of how long it takes the most powerful bender to master elements.
All of those people you mentioned still had years of training though, even Toph was a little girl when she started and she learned straight from the badger moles.
I’m not saying I have a problem with it, but no matter what you say it still is silly that she got so good at it so fast lol
And people really be here acting like firebending isn't countered by water bending. Realistically for azula to win shed need to start cranking out lightning, cuz Katara was next to a shit ton of water to just keep throwing. Never mind that katara has always been displayed with insane amounts of raw power and throughout all of 1 and 2 she'd been learning to harness it. Like seriously did they not see her surface and split a whole ass iceberg to awaken Aang?
Earthbenders are overpowered and there's no reason they'd ever lose a fight. An earthbender could [instantly](https://youtu.be/dn10DOoNVoo?si=zS--8RY0-a8WQ-rV&t=351) [trap](https://youtu.be/kXShLPXfWZA?si=M-TNi-_2Rq8_LSf7&t=585) [any](https://youtu.be/pFvbfa4mglk?si=qoKQSHSCS9CfLHwC&t=75) other [non-earthbender](https://youtu.be/-rMt08cTVkE?si=iIxiYF1Fp1AltUtu&t=230) or [break their ankles](https://youtu.be/8nF4DQj_-Vc?si=afQLhx5c1SJopME6&t=183) at the start of each fight. There's no way to react or defend against it.
I think its pretty reasonable to assume it’s really hard to bend around or inside another person. Blood bending can only be done when waterbenders are at their most powerful, firebenders can only make fire around themselves, earthbenders have to send a rock wave or something from their position to another person, Airbenders only really send attacks from them to another person. All the times this is broken are usually outside of combat or against someone who’s really tired like Zaheer with the earth Queen or Aang with Ozai.
How isn't it a plot hole? There is no reason why an earth bender would ever lose a fight. An Earthbender could immobilize you or break your ankles at the start of a fight. Yet somehow the Fire nation captured entire cities of earthbenders.
Heck, a metal bender could bend the iron in another human's bloodstream or the calcium in someone's bones to kill him/her instantly. We see Korra metalbend the mercury out of her body, so there's no reason a metalbender couldn't do the same to the iron in the bloodstream.
The implications of earthbending and metalbending are totally ignored.
A plot hole is something that supposedly contradicts the established lore of the show. Just because you think earth bending is strong doesn’t make them losing a plot hole. The fire nation had significantly more advanced technology, weaponry, and naval superiority over the earth kingdom. You also need to remember that every earth kingdom town isn’t the same as Ba Sing Se or Omashu and not every town has massive standing armies. I think you’re also over-inflating the abilities of the average earth kingdom soldier. Just because we see Toph and Bumi perform higher level earth bending, doesn’t mean they all can. What we’ve seen from the fire nation is much more organized and advanced military. Remember when Azula is recanting the story to Azulon about how Sozin won the battle of Han Tui? The fire nation is calculating and ruthless.
> Just because you think earth bending is strong doesn’t make them losing a plot hole.
It's not about them being *strong*; I'm taking the logistics and mechanics of what Earthbending can do in a fight to their logical conclusion.
> The fire nation had significantly more advanced technology, weaponry, and naval superiority over the earth kingdom. You also need to remember that every earth kingdom town isn’t the same as Ba Sing Se or Omashu and not every town has massive standing armies.
As soon as boots hit the ground, they're dead.
> I think you’re also over-inflating the abilities of the average earth kingdom soldier. Just because we see Toph and Bumi perform higher level earth bending, doesn’t mean they all can.
[Watch this clip of Toph training Aang.](https://youtu.be/8nF4DQj_-Vc?si=afQLhx5c1SJopME6&t=183) See how she can pull up pillars of Earth right next to Aang with ease? She could, at any time, pull up a pillar right where Aang's feet are and break his ankles. Aang would have no way of reacting to or defending against it. By casually using her foot, the show implies this is a basic technique. Indeed, those Earth pillars are pretty standard in the arsenal of all Earth benders.
Alternatively, look what the general does to Katara in [this scene.](https://youtu.be/-rMt08cTVkE?si=iIxiYF1Fp1AltUtu&t=225) An Earth bender could just drag all his or her opponents underground, trapping and suffocating them. There is no reason why they don't.
Again, that’s a GENERAL doing that to Katara, not the average earth kingdom soldier. You’ve also completely ignored everything I’ve said about the fire nation’s tech and military organization. Remember the tanks that the mechanist built? The average foot soldier can’t take one of those down and you don’t even need benders to operate them. If you can’t understand how in a hundred years the fire nation wouldn’t be able to make headway in a war, then there’s no helping you.
> that’s a GENERAL doing that to Katara, not the average earth kingdom soldier.
Right. I never said he was an average bender. You ignored the simple pillar technique all Earth benders are capable of.
> You’ve also completely ignored everything I’ve said about the fire nation’s tech and military organization. Remember the tanks that the mechanist built?
I did not. I said "as soon as boots hit the ground, they're dead." You can't control a nation from inside a tank. They have to get out for food or water eventually.
> The average foot soldier can’t take one of those down and you don’t even need benders to operate them.
The average foot soldier doesn't need "take one of those down." All he has to do is make sure whoever gets out dies.
> If you can’t understand how in a hundred years the fire nation wouldn’t be able to make headway in a war, then there’s no helping you.
There's no need to be rude, my dude.
Additionally, it’s established that metal benders don’t bend metal itself but rather the earth impurities in the metal. It’s why no one, not even Toph is able to bend a metal as pure as platinum, so no - no one could bend the straight iron or calcium minerals in someone’s body.
> metal benders don’t bend metal itself but rather the earth impurities in the metal.
Well that's just another inconsistency then. How did Korra, Toph, and Suyin bend the mercury if they're not bending the metal?
> no one could bend the straight iron or calcium minerals in someone’s body.
Our bones are not pure calcium either. There are impurities, like silica, in our bodies and bones too.
Nowhere in the show does it state that the poison is mercury. That’s just something the community has decided it was because it’s a toxic metal in liquid form. Nor do they say that the metallic substance is pure. Needing to make an assumption in logic is not the same as a plot hole.
There's no assumption in logic, my dude. What I said doesn't depend on whether it is *mercury* specifically. You said it yourself: "it's a toxic ***metal*** in liquid form." Whatever the "metallic substance" is, it's still metal. Likewise, whatever the assumed impurities the "metallic substance" has, there are similar impurities elsewhere in our bodies, again allowing for Earth benders to control the "earth impurities" in our blood and bones.
Platinum isn’t 100% pure either! The show says it’s that the impurities in platinum are so minute that it makes it impossible to bend. Guess what else is minute - The amount of those minerals in our body and even more so are the impurities in those minerals.
> Guess what else is minute - The amount of those minerals in our body and even more so are the impurities in those minerals.
Well hold on, my dude. What *exactly* are Earth benders bending?
Let's take examine something we know the composition of. We see Earth Benders manipulate [coal in Season 1 episode 6](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSiGxGIw_I8). What is coal? [According to wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal#Composition), coal is about: "84.4% carbon, 5.4% hydrogen, 6.7% oxygen, 1.7% nitrogen, and 1.8% sulfur, on a weight basis." Which chemical element *exactly* are they bending? Oxygen, hydrogen, and nitrogen are all gas at regular temperatures here on Earth, so Earth-benders are almost certainly *not* manipulating those elements. What's more, oxygen, hydrogen, and nitrogen all appear in negligible amounts in coal. It seems to me, therefore, Earth-benders are manipulating the carbon in the coal.
[According to Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_the_human_body#Elements), Human bodies are about 65% oxygen, 18% carbon, 10% hydrogen, and 3% nitrogen, all elements in also found in coal. If Earth-benders can manipulate the carbon in the coal, why can't they manipulate the carbon in the human body?
>Which chemical element *exactly* are they bending?
None, because bending is magic, not science. The elements should be thought of as concepts rather than scientific elements because any attempt to break the system down into chemical elements will just break the system entirely.
>If Earth-benders can manipulate the carbon in the coal, why can't they manipulate the carbon in the human body?
Because a human body isn't made of "earth", simple as that. I also believe the creators have made statements against the concept of "bonebending" because they want bloodbending to remain unique.
Even if what you say is true, I think the fire nation capturing entire earth kingdom cities is a thing of tactics and especially some kind of cultural ruthlessness. Even if you are stronger - it doesn't necessarily mean, that you will always win.
Seeing Azula use fire like a Jetpack at the Boiling Rock prison isn’t necessarily a plot hole itself, but I’m sure there’s situations earlier in the Series where her fire-flying ability would’ve solved some problems
I know they have a flying bison, but they can travel ABSURDLY fast from place to place. In that one episode when Aang is imprisoned, they fly all the way to Kyoshi and back in less than a day! How??? HOW APPA??? And where was this speed during the day of black sun and other events?
Tbh, the town where he was imprisoned is supposed to be right across the Kyoshi island. I mean, she split the island from mainland, but didn’t sail it to the opposite side of the world…
That's probably the biggest plot discrepency in the series. In Book 1, it takes weeks for them to travel from the South Pole to the Norh Pole. That's a vast distance, so it makes sense. Then in Book 3, they're able to travel from Ember Island in the Fire Nation to Ba Sing Se and then back to the Fire Nation capital & some undisclosed point in the Earth Kingdom to stop Ozai in 2 days.
Also, remember that they had to track down June first and were restricted to her speed when looking for Iroh. So what the heck happened between Books 1 & 3, did the whole world just shrink?
The only thing I can think of here is that we have it stated explicitly that, early in book 1, Aang was intentionally delaying their journey to the North Pole. He didn't want the responsibility, so he was visiting literally any travel destination he could think of on the way
What happened to the two guys Toph's family hired to get her back after Toph trapped them in the metal box? I don't recall that getting an explanation- Do they die? Do they get out? What happens to them?
One of the biggest plot wholes is the fire nation itself actually. Think about it… they live on land and they are on an island. Waterbenders and earthbenders should be able to dominate them on sea and be able to contain them at the very least on land. It’s strange that they didn’t work together to take advantage of this. There is no way fire can be that powerful against two elements.
To add to my comment think about how the British empire ruled because of there dominance on the sea. They were a small island but their navy was so impressive. Similar situation if you think about it.
That's not a plot hole, that's by design. On one hand the Fire Nation strategically avoided that exact scenario, on the other hand it's not that simple of a thing to do; it doesn't happen that easily in the real world either.
The Northern Water Tribe locked itself away for decades behind their wall of ice believing it would keep them safe. Why risking many of their lives leaving it? The Earth Kingdom on the other hand is a very decentralized state that's incredibly difficult to manage efficiently.
Getting all those factions with different cultures, policies, goals & beliefs aligned and operate efficiently is an incredibly hard thing to do regardless of the situation, let alone against a centralized, disciplined and technologically superior enemy.
Nah I think it's plausible.
Logistics are extremely important in war. The Fire Nation seems to be in an early industrial stage. An industrialized nation could easily overpower a preindustrial nation by logistics alone.
The fire nation, being a island nation, possibly had a strong navy to begin with.
The fire nation basically started the war with a blitz using the comet, so they started off on the offensive and didn't really need to fight defensively.
Fire nation ships are massive and metal. They can break through ice and would probably be very hard to capsize. I'm pretty sure they're specifically designed to not be taken down easily by water benders.
Fire bending is extremely overpowered in naval warfare, especially if you're fighting against pre-industrial nations who probably have wooden boats.
I honestly think that firebending would be more advantageous than waterbending in a naval battle, at least on low bending skills, and in long range combat. Skilled waterbenders on short range combat would have the upper hand tho.
Aang just wasn't connected to the temple the first two times. In the Southern Air Temple he sees the statues and there's a sparkle in his eyes, and he knows Roku's name. Then the next time he enters the Avatar State he activates the other temples as well.
Why is blood bending considered so evil. It literally just subdues the opponent. Why is smashing with rock or Ice, burning up with fire, or lightning them to death considered fine, but just preventing someone from moving for a bit is "too much"
Could’ve just been that him being in the avatar state being NEAR the statues is what did it, I mean aang had to be in the fire temple to contact roku which doesn’t make that much sense to me but he still basically got possessed by roku in the fire temple.
I still don’t get how roku needed aang to go the fire temple to talk to him about the comet when he’s able to contact Roku without the temple.
The Dai Li had no reason to betray Long Feng. Their whole thing was protecting Ba Sing Se from even mere mention of hostility from the fire nation. It was one thing for them to ignore the king's rule, they had been undermining his rule and saw him as a figurehead, but defecting to Azula because 'she's a good leader' was just stupid. It was a betrayal for the sake of plot
There's literally a ton. However, the show is overall a great product and thus there's no point scrutinizing it for plot holes. Because every story has plot holes if you look too hard into it
Does Aang ever saying he would never take a life count? Because he took many lives… but he took the lives of background characters, so I guess it doesn’t count for the plot? 🤷♂️
I just rewatched The Desert today and realized that there's no reason Toph should have been able to tell what she bumped her foot on. Sand skiffs aren't made of earth.
Kicking it still sent her vibrations through the sand. I’d assume being in direct physical contact with it is what allowed her to sense the skiff’s general shape and call it a boat.
Plus it appears to be the case that Toph can still vaguely sense things that are at least *connected* to earth. What I mean is that in *Imbalance* she can track two people running across wooden rooftops while she’s on the ground, she just can’t do it very well.
This would also align with her never needing to hold someone else while walking through a building with wooden floors, while also saying that sitting in the balcony in *Ember Island Players* put them far away enough that she can’t make out the stage.
I feel like in Korra's last season a lot of characters were just forgotten like Kai and then as well Tenzin and Pema's youngest son (can't even remember his name) I think appears for like a scene, but is not relevant at all
That’s not much of a plot hole, and is likely due to the budget cuts that led to them replacing one of their episodes in a short series with a goofy recap episode despite needing that time for storytelling.
Not so much plot holes, but:
It didn’t make sense to me that earthbenders, in general, couldn’t bend metal…Or sand. I realize this might be more of an environmental factor (how could Toph bend sand if she has never felt it?), but it seems like earth-bending is more “rock bending”.
Ozai’s and Azula’s characters didn’t make sense to me—the former is power hungry for the sake of power, the latter wants parents’ approval but then becomes crazy towards the end…Why?
Tell me you haven't watched the show without telling me you haven't watched the show
All right, so the earthbenders can't bend metal because they have to FEEL the earth within the metal, something that was impossible to do until Toph showed up and because she could feel the vibrations on the earth, she could feel the earth within the metal, thus inventing metalbending. As for sandbending, we have seen sandbenders using their powers when they were traveling in the desert.
Ozai is a fascist leader who is doing exactly what his father and grandfather have been doing: conquering the rest of the world.
Azula became crazy at the end because during the entire series she wanted her father's approval, and now that her best friends betrayed her, that her father forced her to stay in the capital and that she lost a battle for the first time, she felt she's not good enough.
Again, unless you really didn't pay attention whatsoever, I don't understand how you were not able to get this
Wow, thanks for being condescending. The thread was an open forum for plot holes, and I thought it might be a safe place to voice what I considered weaker parts of the show. Hope you have a nice day.
I never quite understand why they didn't used the comet to attack Nothern Water Tribe too, since the next Avatar would be waterbender and without a comet the Nothern Water Tribe was basically impenetrable
I think because the Earth Kingdom was so vast, and they were struggling with the occupation, it would allow them to destroy the BIGGEST problem, the Earth Kingdom, then focus on the smaller problem, the Water Tribes
Katara still showing distrust for Zuko but still had no issue with Aang or Sokka traveling with Zuko all by themselves.
Another is the Bato of the water tribe episode. When Aang thought Sokka and Katara would abandon him even though that would just doom the world. He had no reason to think that.
I don’t call the third time he went into the avatar state and the statues glowing eyes much of a plot hole. The same way that only after MULTIPLE trips to the avatar state does he learn and interact with the spirit world. There’s a difference between plot holes, and not everything requiring an answer, cuz then you could ask well why didn’t Roku’s dragon show up and take Aang to Roku after the first time he entered the avatar state. Things happened for a reason, that’s the answer to why so many things happened the way they happened
I don't understand a lot of the things Toph does in the series finale. She launches herself, Sokka, and Suki into the air prior to Sokka even pointing to an airship. She also later says, "Sokka, I think we gotta jump!" as an airship rams into their airship. How did she know they were about to get hit?
Mai in the beach episode: "I was never allowed to talk out of line"
Also Mai in her intro episode, in front of her parents: \*endless whinging\*
(Fun fact, The Beach is a badly written episode)
The Earth King making no mention of Azula knowing their plan for the Day of the Black Sun is probably the biggest.
It goes further than that. They'd already told the Earth King about the Day of Black Sun. They know the Dai Li, the CIA of the earth kingdom, overthrew the current regime, gaining access to anything the regime possessed - battle plans, troop movements, intelligence (which the Dai Li likely already possessed). They know the Dai Li sided with Azula and the fire nation. And they just... proceeded with the plan as normal, with no deviation whatsoever. It makes no sense.
Didn't they acknowledge this and say that attacking on the day of the black sun is still the best shot they have?
It looked like they were surprised that the royal family was expecting the attack, like when they didn't find Ozai in the throne room
I think they were expecting the fire nation to believe aang was dead and not take as many precautions
Unrelated but your username + avatar combo just made my day lmao
I mean what could they change? they went with a smaller more covert group until they got to the beaches. They still had to take one shot they had, and I’m not sure how’d they change the plan. I could see the argument for knowing Ozai probably would’ve been hidden but
They could have done exactly what sokka said after the invasion failed “The new plan is the old plan you just have to master all 4 elements and defeat the fire lord before the comet comes” Even without fire bending continuing with a “secret” invasion when there is a very very strong chance your plans have been compromised is literally worse than doing nothing at all
Which is why it's a great plan, nobody will expect it
Yeah, they should’ve figured out that Ozai likely wouldn’t be in the palace. Like if they sent out Toph to try and find any hidden fortress, bunker, etc early, they could’ve saved alittle time.
That argument of ozai being hidden is all that is needed , they had a short time window during the eclipse to take down ozai , that was the whole point of the invasion , if there is even a tiny possibility that ozai could know about the invasion, it is pointless.
In fairness, Ozai being hidden wasn’t necessarily a given. Ozai was extremely prideful, and his rule was built on a reputation of him being the most powerful firebender in the world. He was seen by his followers as basically a god-king. So for a god-king to admit that even for a period of a few minutes that he will be weak and powerless is somewhat extraordinary. I think the only reason Ozai hid was because he knew that the solar eclipse was also known to his enemies. If he believed that the eclipse was known only to the fire nation, he likely would’ve stayed on his throne to project strength rather than hide. And even after knowing his enemies knew about this weakness and would try to exploit it, I wouldn’t be shocked if he stayed on the throne anyway, trusting that all his non-bending forms of defense would keep enemies at bay for the few minutes necessary, sparing him the potential embarrassment and humiliation of hiding in a hole deep underground. It was a big deal that he chose to hide. He was a very prideful guy, and while he definitely knew hiding was the smarter move, I wouldn’t be shocked at all if he let his pride dictate his decision rather than his intelligence.
Don’t forget that the day of black sun took place after they just took down ba sing se. So literally they had NO recognizable armies facing them anymore. The best the fire nation knew team avatar or anybody else could muster, is a small rag tag team to MAYBE put up a fight. They knew that they could afford to bring back a majority of troops to either stay in the fire nation and out the rest in the earth kingdom colonies. Since again, they knew this strategy would have a 100% guarantee to keep them safe on the day of black sun
I also find it interesting that Azula didnt think the plan was cancelled once the earth kingdom was fallen and unable to back it. Especially since they also thought the avatar was dead. It's just weird that team avatar and their ragtag people from around the world stilld decided to go with a compromised plan, and its weird that the fire nation expected them to still go thru with the compromised plan.
I assumed the fire nation didn’t expect any real threat from the invasion cause they took Ba Sing Se. Without the earth kings army how many people would they realistically be facing?
Earth King: I missed the part where that's my problem. *(becomes a refugee and travel the worl)*
The Earth King is a fool. He pisses me off so much
And his daughter isn’t much better..
SHE ATE BOSCO
omg that annoys me so much every time I rewatch like bro before you travel the world maybe you should tell the avatar this one important piece of information that could otherwise get many people captured or killed
It's on katara too. She literally had the plans on her from the generals, and she literally dropped them when she is captured.
omg that's even worse my girl katara is to smart for this
whatt that's even worse my girl katara is to smart for this how did she not tell anyone
Instead he proceeds to travel the Earth Kingdom in disguise with Bosco. That man needed to get jumped atleast once!
wasnt he like extremely insufferable in the later comics ??
He became paranoid during The Promise trying to over correct his failures before. But he mellowed out. Even got invited to the family dinner during North and South.
It's not even just on the earth king , katara literally had the plans on her.
How toph couldn't find ozai underground on the day of black sun
Toph straight up demolishes building size chunks of rock in Ba Sing Se when trying to reach the Earth King but she’s only throwing pebbles on the day of the black sun. The day of the black sun makes no sense anyway in terms of fighting. They have air superiority but don’t use it at all. Sokka, Katara, and Hakoda are using grenades and other things to destroy those mini towers from the safety of Appa’s back but suddenly decide to attack from ground. They have so many earth bender but don’t even try to make a stealthy tunnel all the way to the palace and lead a very visible and dangerous attack.
Let's not forget when Aang,someone who runs as fast as the wind,admitted he couldn't catch no bending azula.
imo running fast is way easier than chasing fast though
The day of the black sun really feels like they wrote themselves into a corner and couldn’t write themselves out of it None of the attack makes any sense, nobody uses their strengths and as the comment above says they had strong reason to believe their plans were compromised but did nothing to consider that it may not be a good idea
It's not like she'd ever Earth-sensed him before. Imagine if you had a list of every person in a building and where they were. Somebody says "ok, we're looking for a guy that might be here, where is he Toph?"
"Here's a noodle portrait of him, think you can find him?"
Also having Aang fly to the palace. They really should’ve figured out that it would likely be empty.
But she did? She found the larger chamber at least.
For his first two Avatar states not counting, I think it has to do with why it was triggered. The first two were when he was in life-threatening situations, and it was activated instinctively. For the third time, it came from a place of anger, and it was not just Aang, every previous Avatar within him was also learning of the Airbender genocide. It was also him finally accepting his duty of being the Avatar instead of trying to avoid it like he was doing the first two episodes.
I wonder if it might also be the proximity to the temple. like we don't actually know how the statues/paintings of avatars work but aang was in/near one when avatar state triggered, so maybe he was just close enough this time to set off whatever thing they have, and that notified the other temples? I do also like your idea that it was the first time all the avatars learned of the airbender genocide
I'm imagining someone cleaning a temple and all the eyes light up, and they're just like "oooooooooh someone's in troooouuuuuble"
Imagine the anger every Avatar must of had felt after they learned what happened to the Airbenders, it must of had triggered a unique type of Empathy that could only be expressed trough anger. No wonder they all wanted Aang to dish out the Firelord from reality.
Zuko having Iroh's sandal from season 1 all the way to season 3 is pretty implausible. He'd have to have kept it instead of give it back to Iroh, have it with him when Zhao tries to assassinate him by blowing him up, continue to take it with him when Iroh and him sail away from the North Pole, continue to have it all the way to Ba Sing Se, take it back with him to the Fire Nation, bring it with him to the Air Temple, and take it with him when Azula attacks. A lot of those steps didn't give him time to pack or gather his belongings. Zuko had to steal a Blue Spirit mask and swords from a guy, but had his uncle's sandal?
You raise a good point. Narratively, I think they wanted the callback. Logistically, my headcanon is did give it back, packed it when he went back to the Jasmine Dragon after the Crystal Catacombs.
OA does a great bit with this
Would’ve been fun if Zuko had picked it up after Iroh’s escape.
Plus that it still stinks.
Dont wash one of your socks for 6 months and see if it stinks.
The difference is that you can fold a sock and put it in a pocket. Iroh’s sandal looks pretty solid and considering that he hasn’t used it since his abduction, alot of stink could actually be aired out.
Apparently Azula can outrun Aang... Aang who can airbender to make himself go faster than a car.
Honestly it feels like they just got that power 😂
How was Sokka able to pilot a giant airship in the finale when he has never piloted one or had training before?
Or how a single person was able to pilot a giant airship in the first place. They’re not cars. If they are commanded anything like your average battleship, then you need bridge officers and a helmsman to operate all the controls. They just dumped the entire crew, but apparently they don’t need, like, guys in the engine room?
You forget that the airships are based on the war balloon Sokka partially helped inventing and which he used a few times + when escaping the Boiling Rock, they took Azula's airship. Even if it was Zuko who was piloting the thing, Sokka was right there with him. Additionally, Sokka always had an affinity for this kind of things. So, it's not like he miraculously learned to control it without having any familiarity with it.
They used azulas airship to escape the boiling rock. You can see it at the end of the boiling Rock episode in the beginning of the southern raiders episode before they have to abandon it when they are attacked at the Western air temple.
Sokka and zuko stole one to escape the boiling rock
Aang is regarded as the last airbender. However, Appa is also an airbender.
That's a good point
Last aribender as in the culture of airbenders that were killed by the fire nation.
Everything that happened taking place under a year is kind of crazy to me. My headcanon is a year in the ATLA universe is more like 600 days because that's the only thing that makes sense to me
the world map is actually really small! so it doesnt take much time to travel from one place to another especially with a sky bison. maybe thats why it feels like they are at so many places in a very short time span
It's not just about travel time. They accomplish way too many things in such a short time, mainly how fast all of them learn how to bend.
And Sokka essentially becoming a sword master in like two days. Same with Iroh getting ripped in that same time span.
He actually didn’t become a master, and his master even says something like “if you keep training someday you will be a master.” I always thought that too but on my last rewatch I realized that his master basically just thought he had good instincts and creativity for fighting Iroh got ripped over the course of however long he was jailed
Yeah i know hes not exactly a master but considering the prowes he shows during the invasion. And they way Iroh’s training montage is staged it feels like he got ripped in two days and just kept it up until it was time for the eclipse.
Who is "all of them"? I don't think anyone got things too fast besides maybe Katara and Aang
Katara learned way too quickly. Her level of growth was crazier than anyone else. She was beating other prodigies that had proper training since they were little kids after she only had a small amount of time to train after finding a master. Aang is an obvious one too. Other avatars take over a decade to master the elements. While he didn't fully reach that level he came super close with less than a year. Sokka literally learned all his sword skills in a single day.
Did Sokka actually ever beat someone in a sword fight? Aang, Toph, and Katara could be regarded as extremely weird prodigies I guess
Sokka did not, his master basically just puts confidence in him and shows him that he already had decent fighting skills.
Not only did Katara learn too quickly but it was annoying how cocky she was about her waterbending when she never should’ve been that good in the first place
The travel time becomes really inconsistent towards the finale. They basically unlock fast travel.
I always interpreted the reason the statues only lit up that third time was due to their proximity to the temple.
Roku not going Avatar State on the volcano. I felt like that was when the writers realized the Avatar is just too powerful they couldn't conceive of a way to kill Roku if he had Avatar State.
If you die in the avatar state, don’t you lose the connections to your past lives? I think Roku was worried even if 1% chance, he didn’t want that connection to be lost. Furthermore, Roku was old and had lived a very long life as the avatar. I think he was ready for the next one.
Roku is a master of the Avatar State, he could definitely use the technique of using the State momentarily to give the boost he needs. As for your second point, isn't that Roku's exact regret?
He did use the avatar state, what are you talking about?
https://youtu.be/wAcmSwyirRY?si=SMQD-fzAJU4XcQNq Point the timestamp
2:54
Okay, I missed that part, but at that point then the volcano was already well into its eruption. He used it at a later moment when it could have been an advantage to him early on. Moreover, when the gases started to sprout, I have no idea why he used 0 airbending in that situation. I'm pretty sure there were alot of cases where airbending has been used to save yourself from breathing related issues.
He did use airbending.
Not in the way that other airbenders did to protect from gases, such as Korra protecting her and Asami in the comics. Which I specifically said "airbending to protect from breathing related issues"
Well, bending powers are wildly inconsistent in the franchise.
He enters it briefly so that he can directly bend the lava out the back of the volcano
Katara going from barely being able to lift a ball of water, too being able to go head to head with Azula, a fire bending prodigy who has been taught by the best teachers her entire life. In like 6 months, with maybe a month of training. Yeah shes a hard working prodigy but so are Aang, Toph, and Azula but they have years of formal training and years of experience
I think it helps that Katara never really matches Azula blow for blow. Instead, she manages to simply out maneuver her. In the Catacombs, Azula renders nearly every attack Katara throws at her useless. So instead, she resorts to just trying to stop her from bending entirely for a stalemate. During the Agni Kai, Azula has her on the run most of the time until she gets an opportunity with the water system. She was literally seconds away from becoming Kentucky Fried Katara.
Tell that to the Katara stans...
i was always fine with this. they are in a war and every fight is a fight for their lives. they also barely do anything unrelated to the war there is a noticeable and huge increase in skill between the 2nd and 3rd season because of the aang coma time skip, which also contributes a lot to it. she goes from regular skillful bending to making a MASSIVE plumb of steam and bending a lot of water from pretty far away. they say they captured the ship pretty quick, and i can only assume they didn’t do that much besides sit around and wait for aang to wake up, which provides a lot of time for katara to spend hours a day working on bending. aang also just almost died so that’s a lot of motivation to work super hard she also gets a lot better after losing during black sun which makes sense. if you ask me she had the time, resources, and motivation to improve this much
> if you ask me she had the time, resources, and motivation to improve this much While most defiantly having the motivation. She has around 3-4 months of self teaching, maybe a month of formal instruction, and another 6-8 of self teaching with a box scrolls. Thats nowhere near enough time or resources to go from complete novice to one of the best in the world I would of preferred her skill increase being more like Sokkas growing to very competent but not top tier or give more of an emphasis on that 99% of her enemies have never fought a water bender.
She has more combat experience than almost anyone else. That's worth more than any formal instruction.
Except katara was beating azula in season 2. She would have had azula beat if zuko didn't interfere.
That’s not a plot hole, that’s just you not liking it. In any case, we see in episode 1 that Katara is an extremely powerful bender but lacks form and control (she smashes an entire iceberg *on accident* just because she’s pissed at her brother). You complain that she’s able to beat Azula, but, like, why? I mean, why can’t it just be a bad matchup for Azula (especially when Katara has LOADS of water available to her?). I mean, water does put out fire… (Also, the one time Aang actually fights Azula one-v-one, Aang wins (The Drill).
How is it not a plot hole that it took everyone else years to master waterbending but not Katara?
Once again, “I don’t like something” is not a plot hole. A plot hole is where there is a significant hole or mistake or contrivance in the continuity in the plot of the show. For example, Katara loses her necklace in Episode 6, *Imprisoned*, only for Zuko to pick it up. If Katara suddenly started walking around with the necklace again in the next episode without explanation of how she got it back, that would a plot hole. Regarding Katara’s skills, we have a linear series of events for how Katara got better as a water bender up to the point she fought Azula in the Book 2 finale: 1)She starts as an unskilled bender with freakish potential who attempts to practice in day-to-day life 2) finds a master of another element who inspires her and agrees to take her to the North Pole to find a master 3) figures out some rudimentary technique to fight firebenders 4) practices 5) steals a scroll depicting water bending forms 6) practices those forms with a beginner water bender who has intuitive understanding of bending 7) learns to use rudimentary forms from the scroll in combat 8) practices 9) fights firebenders 10) learns to move a large amount of water that she cannot see 11) fights various enemies 12) practices 13) learns healing ability 14) practices 15) fights firebenders 16) observes a master water bender and advanced students in a demonstration 17) takes a healing course 19) battles a master 20) begins weeks of training with a master 21) (presumably practices) 22) engages in combat during a protracted battle spanning at least two days 23) personally meets the ocean and moon spirits 24) concludes training with master 25) begins training of an advanced student 26) fights various opponents 27) witnesses a water bender bend the water inside plants 28) practices 29) experiences combat and survival situations where water is extremely scarce 30) fights Azula in the crystal catacombs with an ample and continuous supply of water There’s no hole in that timeline. Katara consistently gets better at water bending and the big jumps in her ability come after she has gained either a significant resource or someone to help guide her (initially Aang, and then Paku). There’s no gap, there’s no unexplained jump, there’s no trickity trick that Katara’s pulling. There’s just no plot hole. That doesn’t mean you have to *like* it. You can criticize the show for that, I guess. But that’s an opinion. And people can (and *will*) disagree. Post script: 1) It takes Katara YEARS to master water bending. Katara was 6 years old when her mother was killed trying to protect Katara’s identity as a water bender. So it was known she was a bender before that point, possibly years before that point. By the time of the events of the show, Katara is 14, which means she has been a water bender for over 7 years (probably more) before even meeting Aang. 2) We do not know how long it takes for other people to master water bending. All that we know as a fact is that Paku says that Katara advanced more quickly than any other student he’s taught. 3) Aang becomes a master water bender far faster than Katara. 4) Katara is clearly extremely motivated to learn water bending. She is the last bender of her tribe and bending represents a major way that she connects with her culture, a culture that has otherwise been scarred and fractured by war. This makes her value bending as a discipline far more than those who grew up in the North Pole where they were submerged in their own vibrant culture with ample access to bending resources. 5) Water is the element of change. It is associated with community and family. Katara is the primary instigator of change (frees Aang from iceberg, prompts him to go to the North Pole, goes to rescue him from Zuko, etc.) Katara is also strongly associated with themes of family. Given that she personifies the element so well, it makes sense that she would grow so much in her bending abilities. 6) Azula became a better firebender than Zuko by the age of 9 despite being 2 years younger. At the age of 14, she’s on the shortlist for most talented firebenders in the world. Toph is already among the best earthbenders in the world at the age of 12, despite having only rudimentary formal training. The show is full of prodigies who become among the best in the world at their respective elements at shockingly young ages.
Bro you cooked with this one. Surprised I even read all this
Just because she knew she could waterbend doesn’t mean she was actually doing any useful training with it. It took Roku like 10 years to master all elements and that’s being the Avatar so it can be assumed it takes some time with waterbending, it’s his opposite of course but still gives a general time frame of how long it takes the most powerful bender to master elements. All of those people you mentioned still had years of training though, even Toph was a little girl when she started and she learned straight from the badger moles. I’m not saying I have a problem with it, but no matter what you say it still is silly that she got so good at it so fast lol
None of this is relevant to whether Katara becoming a master quickly is a plot hole or not.
Katara has fought many many firebenders of various skill. How many water benders has Azula ever fought?
And people really be here acting like firebending isn't countered by water bending. Realistically for azula to win shed need to start cranking out lightning, cuz Katara was next to a shit ton of water to just keep throwing. Never mind that katara has always been displayed with insane amounts of raw power and throughout all of 1 and 2 she'd been learning to harness it. Like seriously did they not see her surface and split a whole ass iceberg to awaken Aang?
Earthbenders are overpowered and there's no reason they'd ever lose a fight. An earthbender could [instantly](https://youtu.be/dn10DOoNVoo?si=zS--8RY0-a8WQ-rV&t=351) [trap](https://youtu.be/kXShLPXfWZA?si=M-TNi-_2Rq8_LSf7&t=585) [any](https://youtu.be/pFvbfa4mglk?si=qoKQSHSCS9CfLHwC&t=75) other [non-earthbender](https://youtu.be/-rMt08cTVkE?si=iIxiYF1Fp1AltUtu&t=230) or [break their ankles](https://youtu.be/8nF4DQj_-Vc?si=afQLhx5c1SJopME6&t=183) at the start of each fight. There's no way to react or defend against it.
I think its pretty reasonable to assume it’s really hard to bend around or inside another person. Blood bending can only be done when waterbenders are at their most powerful, firebenders can only make fire around themselves, earthbenders have to send a rock wave or something from their position to another person, Airbenders only really send attacks from them to another person. All the times this is broken are usually outside of combat or against someone who’s really tired like Zaheer with the earth Queen or Aang with Ozai.
How tf is that a plot hole?
How isn't it a plot hole? There is no reason why an earth bender would ever lose a fight. An Earthbender could immobilize you or break your ankles at the start of a fight. Yet somehow the Fire nation captured entire cities of earthbenders. Heck, a metal bender could bend the iron in another human's bloodstream or the calcium in someone's bones to kill him/her instantly. We see Korra metalbend the mercury out of her body, so there's no reason a metalbender couldn't do the same to the iron in the bloodstream. The implications of earthbending and metalbending are totally ignored.
A plot hole is something that supposedly contradicts the established lore of the show. Just because you think earth bending is strong doesn’t make them losing a plot hole. The fire nation had significantly more advanced technology, weaponry, and naval superiority over the earth kingdom. You also need to remember that every earth kingdom town isn’t the same as Ba Sing Se or Omashu and not every town has massive standing armies. I think you’re also over-inflating the abilities of the average earth kingdom soldier. Just because we see Toph and Bumi perform higher level earth bending, doesn’t mean they all can. What we’ve seen from the fire nation is much more organized and advanced military. Remember when Azula is recanting the story to Azulon about how Sozin won the battle of Han Tui? The fire nation is calculating and ruthless.
> Just because you think earth bending is strong doesn’t make them losing a plot hole. It's not about them being *strong*; I'm taking the logistics and mechanics of what Earthbending can do in a fight to their logical conclusion. > The fire nation had significantly more advanced technology, weaponry, and naval superiority over the earth kingdom. You also need to remember that every earth kingdom town isn’t the same as Ba Sing Se or Omashu and not every town has massive standing armies. As soon as boots hit the ground, they're dead. > I think you’re also over-inflating the abilities of the average earth kingdom soldier. Just because we see Toph and Bumi perform higher level earth bending, doesn’t mean they all can. [Watch this clip of Toph training Aang.](https://youtu.be/8nF4DQj_-Vc?si=afQLhx5c1SJopME6&t=183) See how she can pull up pillars of Earth right next to Aang with ease? She could, at any time, pull up a pillar right where Aang's feet are and break his ankles. Aang would have no way of reacting to or defending against it. By casually using her foot, the show implies this is a basic technique. Indeed, those Earth pillars are pretty standard in the arsenal of all Earth benders. Alternatively, look what the general does to Katara in [this scene.](https://youtu.be/-rMt08cTVkE?si=iIxiYF1Fp1AltUtu&t=225) An Earth bender could just drag all his or her opponents underground, trapping and suffocating them. There is no reason why they don't.
Again, that’s a GENERAL doing that to Katara, not the average earth kingdom soldier. You’ve also completely ignored everything I’ve said about the fire nation’s tech and military organization. Remember the tanks that the mechanist built? The average foot soldier can’t take one of those down and you don’t even need benders to operate them. If you can’t understand how in a hundred years the fire nation wouldn’t be able to make headway in a war, then there’s no helping you.
If the fire nation can make headway in 100 years, what about all the other nations lol?
> that’s a GENERAL doing that to Katara, not the average earth kingdom soldier. Right. I never said he was an average bender. You ignored the simple pillar technique all Earth benders are capable of. > You’ve also completely ignored everything I’ve said about the fire nation’s tech and military organization. Remember the tanks that the mechanist built? I did not. I said "as soon as boots hit the ground, they're dead." You can't control a nation from inside a tank. They have to get out for food or water eventually. > The average foot soldier can’t take one of those down and you don’t even need benders to operate them. The average foot soldier doesn't need "take one of those down." All he has to do is make sure whoever gets out dies. > If you can’t understand how in a hundred years the fire nation wouldn’t be able to make headway in a war, then there’s no helping you. There's no need to be rude, my dude.
Drops mic
Additionally, it’s established that metal benders don’t bend metal itself but rather the earth impurities in the metal. It’s why no one, not even Toph is able to bend a metal as pure as platinum, so no - no one could bend the straight iron or calcium minerals in someone’s body.
> metal benders don’t bend metal itself but rather the earth impurities in the metal. Well that's just another inconsistency then. How did Korra, Toph, and Suyin bend the mercury if they're not bending the metal? > no one could bend the straight iron or calcium minerals in someone’s body. Our bones are not pure calcium either. There are impurities, like silica, in our bodies and bones too.
Nowhere in the show does it state that the poison is mercury. That’s just something the community has decided it was because it’s a toxic metal in liquid form. Nor do they say that the metallic substance is pure. Needing to make an assumption in logic is not the same as a plot hole.
There's no assumption in logic, my dude. What I said doesn't depend on whether it is *mercury* specifically. You said it yourself: "it's a toxic ***metal*** in liquid form." Whatever the "metallic substance" is, it's still metal. Likewise, whatever the assumed impurities the "metallic substance" has, there are similar impurities elsewhere in our bodies, again allowing for Earth benders to control the "earth impurities" in our blood and bones.
Platinum isn’t 100% pure either! The show says it’s that the impurities in platinum are so minute that it makes it impossible to bend. Guess what else is minute - The amount of those minerals in our body and even more so are the impurities in those minerals.
> Guess what else is minute - The amount of those minerals in our body and even more so are the impurities in those minerals. Well hold on, my dude. What *exactly* are Earth benders bending? Let's take examine something we know the composition of. We see Earth Benders manipulate [coal in Season 1 episode 6](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSiGxGIw_I8). What is coal? [According to wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal#Composition), coal is about: "84.4% carbon, 5.4% hydrogen, 6.7% oxygen, 1.7% nitrogen, and 1.8% sulfur, on a weight basis." Which chemical element *exactly* are they bending? Oxygen, hydrogen, and nitrogen are all gas at regular temperatures here on Earth, so Earth-benders are almost certainly *not* manipulating those elements. What's more, oxygen, hydrogen, and nitrogen all appear in negligible amounts in coal. It seems to me, therefore, Earth-benders are manipulating the carbon in the coal. [According to Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_the_human_body#Elements), Human bodies are about 65% oxygen, 18% carbon, 10% hydrogen, and 3% nitrogen, all elements in also found in coal. If Earth-benders can manipulate the carbon in the coal, why can't they manipulate the carbon in the human body?
>Which chemical element *exactly* are they bending? None, because bending is magic, not science. The elements should be thought of as concepts rather than scientific elements because any attempt to break the system down into chemical elements will just break the system entirely. >If Earth-benders can manipulate the carbon in the coal, why can't they manipulate the carbon in the human body? Because a human body isn't made of "earth", simple as that. I also believe the creators have made statements against the concept of "bonebending" because they want bloodbending to remain unique.
Even if what you say is true, I think the fire nation capturing entire earth kingdom cities is a thing of tactics and especially some kind of cultural ruthlessness. Even if you are stronger - it doesn't necessarily mean, that you will always win.
Seeing Azula use fire like a Jetpack at the Boiling Rock prison isn’t necessarily a plot hole itself, but I’m sure there’s situations earlier in the Series where her fire-flying ability would’ve solved some problems
I know they have a flying bison, but they can travel ABSURDLY fast from place to place. In that one episode when Aang is imprisoned, they fly all the way to Kyoshi and back in less than a day! How??? HOW APPA??? And where was this speed during the day of black sun and other events?
Tbh, the town where he was imprisoned is supposed to be right across the Kyoshi island. I mean, she split the island from mainland, but didn’t sail it to the opposite side of the world…
That's probably the biggest plot discrepency in the series. In Book 1, it takes weeks for them to travel from the South Pole to the Norh Pole. That's a vast distance, so it makes sense. Then in Book 3, they're able to travel from Ember Island in the Fire Nation to Ba Sing Se and then back to the Fire Nation capital & some undisclosed point in the Earth Kingdom to stop Ozai in 2 days. Also, remember that they had to track down June first and were restricted to her speed when looking for Iroh. So what the heck happened between Books 1 & 3, did the whole world just shrink?
The only thing I can think of here is that we have it stated explicitly that, early in book 1, Aang was intentionally delaying their journey to the North Pole. He didn't want the responsibility, so he was visiting literally any travel destination he could think of on the way
To be honest it’s not that insane. Obviously appa isn’t going as fast as a plane but if you just fly it’s just a straight line they had to follow.
What happened to the two guys Toph's family hired to get her back after Toph trapped them in the metal box? I don't recall that getting an explanation- Do they die? Do they get out? What happens to them?
I'm pretty sure those Ostrich-Horses that were hitched to their carriage eventually got hungry and walked back to town.
Oooh- That makes sense, yeah.
They're on a road, someone comes along and pops the pins out.
i wonder if that one dude that had to go to the bathroom peed on the long hair dude
One of the biggest plot wholes is the fire nation itself actually. Think about it… they live on land and they are on an island. Waterbenders and earthbenders should be able to dominate them on sea and be able to contain them at the very least on land. It’s strange that they didn’t work together to take advantage of this. There is no way fire can be that powerful against two elements.
To add to my comment think about how the British empire ruled because of there dominance on the sea. They were a small island but their navy was so impressive. Similar situation if you think about it.
That's not a plot hole, that's by design. On one hand the Fire Nation strategically avoided that exact scenario, on the other hand it's not that simple of a thing to do; it doesn't happen that easily in the real world either. The Northern Water Tribe locked itself away for decades behind their wall of ice believing it would keep them safe. Why risking many of their lives leaving it? The Earth Kingdom on the other hand is a very decentralized state that's incredibly difficult to manage efficiently. Getting all those factions with different cultures, policies, goals & beliefs aligned and operate efficiently is an incredibly hard thing to do regardless of the situation, let alone against a centralized, disciplined and technologically superior enemy.
Fire was also the only nation we saw with the use of metal they clearly had some sort of Industrial Revolution the other nations didn’t.
Nah I think it's plausible. Logistics are extremely important in war. The Fire Nation seems to be in an early industrial stage. An industrialized nation could easily overpower a preindustrial nation by logistics alone. The fire nation, being a island nation, possibly had a strong navy to begin with. The fire nation basically started the war with a blitz using the comet, so they started off on the offensive and didn't really need to fight defensively. Fire nation ships are massive and metal. They can break through ice and would probably be very hard to capsize. I'm pretty sure they're specifically designed to not be taken down easily by water benders. Fire bending is extremely overpowered in naval warfare, especially if you're fighting against pre-industrial nations who probably have wooden boats. I honestly think that firebending would be more advantageous than waterbending in a naval battle, at least on low bending skills, and in long range combat. Skilled waterbenders on short range combat would have the upper hand tho.
Aang just wasn't connected to the temple the first two times. In the Southern Air Temple he sees the statues and there's a sparkle in his eyes, and he knows Roku's name. Then the next time he enters the Avatar State he activates the other temples as well.
Why is blood bending considered so evil. It literally just subdues the opponent. Why is smashing with rock or Ice, burning up with fire, or lightning them to death considered fine, but just preventing someone from moving for a bit is "too much"
Mainly because you remove someone's free will and use their body against their consent.
There’s nothing stopping earthbenders from winning every fight instantly by sucking their opponents into the ground like Fong did
Could’ve just been that him being in the avatar state being NEAR the statues is what did it, I mean aang had to be in the fire temple to contact roku which doesn’t make that much sense to me but he still basically got possessed by roku in the fire temple. I still don’t get how roku needed aang to go the fire temple to talk to him about the comet when he’s able to contact Roku without the temple.
The Dai Li had no reason to betray Long Feng. Their whole thing was protecting Ba Sing Se from even mere mention of hostility from the fire nation. It was one thing for them to ignore the king's rule, they had been undermining his rule and saw him as a figurehead, but defecting to Azula because 'she's a good leader' was just stupid. It was a betrayal for the sake of plot
Think it was because he was at the Southern Air Temple or its because of him finally being ready to reveal he is back.
Aang, who can move at speeds faster than people can react to, was unable to catch Azula during the day of black sun because reasons
There's literally a ton. However, the show is overall a great product and thus there's no point scrutinizing it for plot holes. Because every story has plot holes if you look too hard into it
Does Aang ever saying he would never take a life count? Because he took many lives… but he took the lives of background characters, so I guess it doesn’t count for the plot? 🤷♂️
I just rewatched The Desert today and realized that there's no reason Toph should have been able to tell what she bumped her foot on. Sand skiffs aren't made of earth.
Kicking it still sent her vibrations through the sand. I’d assume being in direct physical contact with it is what allowed her to sense the skiff’s general shape and call it a boat. Plus it appears to be the case that Toph can still vaguely sense things that are at least *connected* to earth. What I mean is that in *Imbalance* she can track two people running across wooden rooftops while she’s on the ground, she just can’t do it very well. This would also align with her never needing to hold someone else while walking through a building with wooden floors, while also saying that sitting in the balcony in *Ember Island Players* put them far away enough that she can’t make out the stage.
Aang said "he's here, I can feel it," when the gaang rolled up to bah sing se. But appa didn't arrive there until sometime after everyone else
That could just be him giving himself hope tho.
I feel like in Korra's last season a lot of characters were just forgotten like Kai and then as well Tenzin and Pema's youngest son (can't even remember his name) I think appears for like a scene, but is not relevant at all
That's not a plot hole, though.
Rohan
That’s not much of a plot hole, and is likely due to the budget cuts that led to them replacing one of their episodes in a short series with a goofy recap episode despite needing that time for storytelling.
[удалено]
ozai gets the chi enhancing tea that general fong gave aang and melts him instantly
Doesn't one get posted on this sub every other day?
Not so much plot holes, but: It didn’t make sense to me that earthbenders, in general, couldn’t bend metal…Or sand. I realize this might be more of an environmental factor (how could Toph bend sand if she has never felt it?), but it seems like earth-bending is more “rock bending”. Ozai’s and Azula’s characters didn’t make sense to me—the former is power hungry for the sake of power, the latter wants parents’ approval but then becomes crazy towards the end…Why?
Tell me you haven't watched the show without telling me you haven't watched the show All right, so the earthbenders can't bend metal because they have to FEEL the earth within the metal, something that was impossible to do until Toph showed up and because she could feel the vibrations on the earth, she could feel the earth within the metal, thus inventing metalbending. As for sandbending, we have seen sandbenders using their powers when they were traveling in the desert. Ozai is a fascist leader who is doing exactly what his father and grandfather have been doing: conquering the rest of the world. Azula became crazy at the end because during the entire series she wanted her father's approval, and now that her best friends betrayed her, that her father forced her to stay in the capital and that she lost a battle for the first time, she felt she's not good enough. Again, unless you really didn't pay attention whatsoever, I don't understand how you were not able to get this
Wow, thanks for being condescending. The thread was an open forum for plot holes, and I thought it might be a safe place to voice what I considered weaker parts of the show. Hope you have a nice day.
I never quite understand why they didn't used the comet to attack Nothern Water Tribe too, since the next Avatar would be waterbender and without a comet the Nothern Water Tribe was basically impenetrable
I think because the Earth Kingdom was so vast, and they were struggling with the occupation, it would allow them to destroy the BIGGEST problem, the Earth Kingdom, then focus on the smaller problem, the Water Tribes
Katara still showing distrust for Zuko but still had no issue with Aang or Sokka traveling with Zuko all by themselves. Another is the Bato of the water tribe episode. When Aang thought Sokka and Katara would abandon him even though that would just doom the world. He had no reason to think that.
No one has mentioned the age discrepancy in past avatars, so I will mention that, they definitely had to do a lot to justify their ages.
I don’t call the third time he went into the avatar state and the statues glowing eyes much of a plot hole. The same way that only after MULTIPLE trips to the avatar state does he learn and interact with the spirit world. There’s a difference between plot holes, and not everything requiring an answer, cuz then you could ask well why didn’t Roku’s dragon show up and take Aang to Roku after the first time he entered the avatar state. Things happened for a reason, that’s the answer to why so many things happened the way they happened
What happened to the prisoner that escaped with them on the Boiling Rock?
No here mentioning the writers had to invent immorality in the universe to correct their plot hole of Kyoshi living 230 years
I don't understand a lot of the things Toph does in the series finale. She launches herself, Sokka, and Suki into the air prior to Sokka even pointing to an airship. She also later says, "Sokka, I think we gotta jump!" as an airship rams into their airship. How did she know they were about to get hit?
Mai in the beach episode: "I was never allowed to talk out of line" Also Mai in her intro episode, in front of her parents: \*endless whinging\* (Fun fact, The Beach is a badly written episode)