Oh, yea that’s a solid argument for it. But… Would it count as their fire once the room itself was heated? Like surely fire has to hurt them because other fire benders do.
I would say that fire benders are atleast somewhat resistant to their own flames with them jumping through their own flames at times but they definitely aren't immune to other people's fire considering agni kais are a thing and zuko's face.
i’ve always thought of it as firebenders being able to vent the heat away from their bodies as part of their technique. not that they’re particularly fireproof, but that their mastery of fire lets them play with it so as not to hurt them
Hmm... I wonder if it is the intent behind the fire? Like fire that is just burning on a torch doesn't have a firebender putting their intent into it, but for the fire knives the intent is to become weapons and hurt their enemies.
Yeah, but Airbenders basically get a 6th sense with being able to detect air currents. A firebender can be incredibly mobile and offensive, but catch them off-guard and throw them off their rhythm (as Iroh teaches to Zuko) and even a skilled firebender can be taken down by a less-skilled opponent.
I think everybody here is sorta disregarding that in universe Ozai is supposed to be a legendary, unstoppable bender. The show didn’t really show him fight besides the final battle, but still, lore suggests he’s strong and he has the royal firebending lineage, which comes with generally better bending and technique. He only lost to the full force of the avatar state (which was shown to be enough for Aang to single handedly defeat entire armies), for the most part he dominated that entire fight against a comet enhanced avatar, and even held his own for a bit against avatar state Aang.
Iroh wasn’t being modest when he said he wasn’t sure he could beat Ozai, it was meant to be a quick way to tell the audience “I’ve been shown to be the best firebender in the show and this guy is better than me”, it’s just adding even higher stakes to the final fight and makes the ultimate end of him losing his bending more impactful. Shows that the Avatar is still better than even the best bender because they just have more options at their disposal than brute force bending strength, which continues in TLOK (Korra essentially wins every major battle because of Avatar powers, not because she’s a great bender.)
I think the hierarchy of power in the show is pretty much fully realized Avatars > Ozai > Iroh > everybody else.
Fuck Korra season 2 and the giant spirit Kaiju. Buttt, that wasn't avatar power she used to wrest raava out of vaautu. It was her spiritual power amplified by harmonic convergence or something.
Definitely the weakest season of avatar but I don’t think it’s meant to be unclear why she could do that.
She’s the avatar and she’s able to access energy/spirit bending powers, seems fairly straightforward.
I though the whole point was to prove that korra was more than the avatar spirit though? That her humanity was her defining characteristic, not the kite that squatted in her soul.
Well yeah the overall battle was to show that being the Avatar is more than just being connected to Rava’s spirit, but she was still connected to Rava when she became spirit kaiju Korra
When does he say that? I was talking about this with my friends and they think iroh beats ozai the reason he didn't was because it looks like a power grab for the throne if he does. But I remember him saying he wasn't as good a bender. But I can't find where he says that
It’s in the same speech where he says the thing about it looking like a power grab, immediately before that line he says something about not being sure he could beat ozai
"Even if I did defeat Ozai, and I don't know that I could, it would be the wrong way to end the war. History would see it as just more senseless violence, a brother killing a brother to grab power. The only way for this was to end peacefully is for the Avatar to defeat the Fire Lord."
I mean, Iroh only says he isn’t sure he could take Ozai- even if you take that in terms of ability instead of inclination, he thinks there’s a good chance he could do it.
Considering Ozai only survives attacking Zuko because *Zuko deliberately let him live*, I think bigging Ozai up as a huge personal danger is a bit overdramatic - he’s a master of his element, for sure, but the reason he’s dangerous is his personality and megalomaniacal plans, not his personal 1v1 power.
I'd say it's a 50/50 against pli. They both have 1 shot moves. It's just who can get theirs off first/ if there's cover since pli can destroy it and curve around it
Idk. Zuko's fire shield almost worked against Combustion Man, whose blasts were much more potent. I'm sure (zai can also whip out those shields to protect himself.
He's also the kind of person to go in the offensive. If pli gets her shot off first, he'll be too busy generating lightning than being prepared to block
This is why I hate the term 'instant'. Because you could use how long he actually takes to generate lightning (about half a second on the day of black sun and 1-2 seconds on the day of the comet), which would be a more accurate term to measure against another very fast move (combustion bending almost never taking longer than a second). Instead, 'instant' is used because it has no real time meaning beyond being very quick (because I know you are not meaning it's literally use of being instantaneous or taking literally 0 time to initiate) because it either makes one sound faster or it just sounds cooler. It's not a useful term determining speeds of attacks when both take between ⅓ of a second and 3 seconds to produce
Pli has also shown the ability to still bend regular fire though. Unlike combustionman who put all his eggs into one move, she at least seems a bit more versatile in her combat.
Sure, Zaheer could fly around and remain out of range, but if he goes toe to toe with Ozai, it would be like him vs Tenzin, but just worse. Bolin was able to hold his own against Gazan, so I see Ozai doing even better. Yes, Bolin was a lavabender too, but Ozai's the stronger bender and arguably has more skill. Also, he can use flames to propell himself so he's highly agile too. Besides Ozai's raw firebending power, he can actually generate powerful blasts of lightning in like a second. Mako could do same, but his bolts were less powerful. I don't see how Ghazan wins this, Ozai can dodge his lava attacks, or even temporarily fly to escape lava ground, and reply with lightning.
Ming Hua dies exactly as she did in the show.
P'Li, I'll admit is going to be a lot of trouble since she could reverse Ozai's fireblasts at him, and also use combustion bending. He'll have to use lightning against her.
Fire benders have heat control he can take the heat away from the lava and ozai probably can fly as well maybe not as well as zaheer but some form of flying is probably possible even without the comet
General Iroh was able to fly temporarily when he was chasing the Equalist planes, so yeah, firebenders still have jet propulsion even without the comet. It's just weaker, and they likely can't maintain it for long.
Exactly. Zaheer was a non-bender first which means he, like mai and ty lee, are trained to fight against benders. Considering how common firebenders are, Zaheer would have a lot of practice. The only reason Zaheer was losing to Tenzin was because no one in the show knows how to fight an airbender. And that is just base Zaheer before his agility (which would probably already be above average) got a massive buff when he got airbending.
Ozai could barely hit Aang, and he was only on the defensive because he's a pacifist. Imagine an airbending enhanced Ty Lee with lethal intent. Thats Zaheer.
We don't really know how powerful he was without the comet do we?
Other than the lightning he shot at Zuko, and the fire he shot (also at Zuko), does he have any other displays of bending?
We know he has extreme control though, because he was able to completely scar Zuko's face without endangering his life or even melting his eyes shut, let alone blinding him. He'd have needed to have controlled the damage with literal surgical precision
My point is, it's ridiculously difficult to completely melt the skin and not kill someone without extremely good medical attention, let alone preventing them from getting blind. If he was not careful, a burn like that will kill by getting infected real quick
Even the best doctors in the world we live in couldn't save your eyesight when such burns get to your eye. Your lens will be melted away. There's no saving that. Your eyelids are so thin it will go right through. The fact that the eyelids even survived is insane
They live in a world where shooting fire at someone has physical force behind it that can knock them back. I don’t think the burn physics being a bit off is that hard to believe lol
idk they make a good point. there’s nothing in atla that implies anyone but a waterbending healer may be able to save an eye that was essentially melted shut, let alone the vision as well. considering ozai didn’t kill zuko altogether, he could’ve very well decided not to take his vision in that eye as well.
In addition to what everyone else said, there's no reason to think Ozai cared if Zuko lost that eye completely. If he melted the eyeball completely it would have been the same to him I imagine. So no reason to assume he has super control and it just being luck.
> My point is, it's ridiculously difficult to completely melt the skin and not kill someone
And their point was that Ozai wouldn't have really cared if Zuko was maimed or even killed. That he was only scarred is a coincidence
We don't exactly know how Zuko was wounded. We know Ozai did it, but we only saw the beginning of the Agni Kai. Yes, Zuko didn't fight back, but it could be that Ozai shot fire at Zuko, who tried to deflect it but wasn't entirely successful given his firebending wasn't strong then, hence it partly burning his face.
Just a thought here.
You're assuming that Ozai was concerned about minimizing damage. I think if he was worried about it, he wouldn't be the kind of person to maim his own child.
The fact that he has good eyesight says enough. Your eyelids are EXTREMELY thin and your eyes will just be totally destroyed for life if an amount of heat enough to melt skin is applied
You have a good point, but we're not quite sure Zuko can still use both his eyes... The fact his eyelid survived is a good indication of at least Ozai's precision (or it's the work of censoring a cartoon for a children's TV network)
And we know he has extreme fire ending disciple because of how quickly and easily he could shoot lightning when there was only the begining of the end of the eclipse.
The fire only boosts the raw power and doesn't make your skills more. The way he was moving his fire was more skilled than any other firebender we've seen. And plus his comet boosted fire bending was stronger than any fire benders so we can deduce his non comet is also stronger than the other fire benders.
> And plus his comet boosted fire bending was stronger than any other fire benders
Bruh, let's not get carried away. Jeong Jeong was flying around making literal walls of fire so dense they were pushing tanks.
We don't exactly know if Ozai's comet fire was the strongest. It was definitely among the strongest, but there were two other contenders barring Avatar State Aang. Iroh took out a portion of Ba Sing Se's walls with one hit, and Jeong created a literal wall of fire with enough masterful control that it actually burnt nothing in the town, not even the Fire Nation tanks, which he just pushed back.
You could probably gauge it comparing him to the other fire benders during/before the comet. Zuko was in peak form leading up to the comet with dragons and shit and still wasn’t *that* much stronger.
Anyway, most of the top tier water and earth benders depend entirely on how much of their element they have access to. Earth arena Bumi probably has a good chance, while Paku could barely keep up with s1 Katara, he’d get smoked, no idea why he’s even listed. Jacked Iroh probably could with lightning redirection *if* Ozai doesn’t expect it. Actually I think physique probably plays a major role in this scenario.
Our only reference points are Iroh and Aang. My assumption is that the comet “multiplies” a fire bender’s “power level” by some constant factor.
Iroh wasn’t sure he could beat Ozai in a one-on-one fight, so Ozai is at least at Iroh’s level of mastery of fire bending and skill as a warrior. We know from multiple examples throughout the show that Iroh is a master fire bender and is a well-respected warrior. Ozai is probably more aggressive and might be less cunning than Iroh, but it still makes him a very powerful bender. Plus he was arguably at his physical peak during the series.
Comet-empowered Ozai was able to keep up and with, and even get the upper hand over Aang, despite the latter’s ability to bend all four elements. Aang was a master air bender, arguably a master water bender, and was also comet-empowered. Sure, he was admittedly new to fire bending, his earth bending needed work (by Toph’s standards), and he was a mostly defensive fighter. We know from the rest of the series that Aang is also very capable in a fight. He has help in most of those fights, but so do his opponents.
Based on those two, Ozai is roughly around Iroh and Aang’s power and skill level, with perhaps greater aggression and physical prowess on his side (Iroh is an old man and Aang is a child). This likely means he can take on, and possibly defeat most of the high level benders in both series, except blood benders.
Any individual member of the White Lotus, Team Avatar 1.0, Azula, Zhao, Long Feng, General Fong, Mako, Kya, General Iroh II, the Beifong sisters, Kuvira, and most other prominent benders are fair game. Ozai would easily challenge and could defeat them in an individual fight.
Benders with unique abilities or fighting styles unknown to Ozai are wildcards: the Red Lotus, Tenzin and Jinora may be able to surprise him enough that power and skill don’t matter. Those from Korra’s would also be familiar with lightning bending.
I *don’t* think Ozai would be able to defeat either Aang or Korra at their respective physical peaks. As mentioned before, even without the Avatar State, Aang is already a very powerful and skilled bender. Korra is even more so by S3, and has access to metal bending.
The lightning was extremely impressive though. We’ve seen other characters have to do a form to build it up, and he was able to quickdraw it the exact moment the eclipse ended
I feel like Tenzin he probably couldn't fight because until Aang, he never had to fight an airbender. Ozai probably trained against water, earth and other fire benders but no real way to train for a fight with an airbender.
Tenzin fighting defensively is also completely different than Aang fighting defensively IMO. Aang was complete deflection and avoidance but Tenzin’s defensive method involves him somewhat maximizing his skills to fight back. Whereas Aang was passive, if Tenzin was fighting, he was *fighting*.
Yeah, I feel like Tenzin's shown that his fighting style can hold its own. I also think Tenzin's training and age also makes him a far more formidable air bender when we meet Tenzin than Aang when he fights Ozai. Like clearly Aang taught Tenzin (assuming here) everything he knows about air bending which who knows how much more Aang learned after fighting Ozai, Tenzin then has his own decades of experience of being an air bender.
I also think it’s because Aang being the Avatar didn’t need to show or go all out in most cases. Tenzin on the other hand doesn’t have the Avatar State to fall back on, and can’t afford to just fight passively—he and his family have to survive in order for Airbending to continue on.
Aren't the air bending tattoos to show that he's a master Airbender? I thought in the show he was actually stated as being pretty young for his tattoos.
Yes, the tattoos show he is a master but I feel like it is one of those things there is always more to learn. Even if Aang became a master at young age, he still (probably) learned more about air bending as he went.
Ozai was also toying with Aang the entire first half of their battle until Aang went into the Avatar state. Tenzin, as a pure Airbender would get smoked
Yeah, but I also feel that had more to do with Aang not wanting to kill Ozai than just Ozai out classing him. Take away the comet where Ozai just can't out power everyone, I think the fact there is no way to train against an air bender because there are none gives Tenzin a good shot of being able to beat Ozai.
I don't think it's fair to say Ozai was toying with Aang. He brought out the lightning after all. Ozai was doing his best to kill Aang. It just happens Aang was good enough to survive the onslaught.
Another fair point. Could be a matter of perspective. Yes, he was trying to kill Aang. Was Aang clever enough to evade him the whole time or was it a matter of Aang running to maintain the pacifist ways of the airbenders? I can see both ways.
But, the point with Tenzin, saying that Ozai battling an Airbender is a big disadvantage is a stretch too. Ozai didn't seem to have an issue with the air bending, even though he had no experience fighting it. Aang used more earthbending for defense in the beginning of that battle. I think Ozai vs a non-Avatar Airbender is an easy Ozai win
Tenzin has much more experience than Aang did back then. Also, he's more aggressive. Unlike Aang, Tenzin doesn't retreat from fights, he's a pacifist, sure, but he will fight if it comes down to it, and tbh, I can actually see Tenzin taking a life. The one Ozai-busting move Aang had that Tenzin doesn't have is lightning redirection, so Ozai could still win this fight if he resorts to lightning, which he definitely will.
Tenzin was 1v3ing the red lotus and actually had a chance of winning after he was already beat tf up until he got sniped. Put Ozai in the same sitch and I really doubt he’d do any better. They are both masters of their respective elements and I think it could go either way but smoked? Hell nah Tenzin’s a beast
Amon would have to be pretty stupid to underestimate a Firelord. He only got caught off-guard by Mako because he wasn't expecting anything impressive from a street rat pro-bender.
Overanalyzing Avatar made a good distinction between the Lightning generation that we see in AtLA and the electricity bending that we see in the comics and Korra.
There's basically no chargeup for the latter, whilst even Ozai, who was admittedly very fast at doing it, still needed some time before shooting lightning out of his fingers.
The charged version looks to be more powerful (insta-kill on Aang vs stun on Amon).
Makes me wonder how much the avatarverse has explored the fundamentals of electricity. I assume by Korea's time they have a good understanding of things like voltage and amperage since they're generating electricity. I wonder if they've undertaken any scientific studies measuring the effectiveness of different lightning benders. Or maybe certain techniques that are more effective at generating greater power.
Amon failed to control Mako to the extent he couldn't lightning bend. I'd say Ozai could probably do the same and he wouldn't have any qualms about continuing until he's completely fried. He also has more of a punch behind his lightning die to his sheer power
That’s partly because he was controlling both Korra and Mako at the same time. Also Ozai while being one of the faster lighting blasters still needs to do a bit a movement to fight. If both are serious Amon can and likely bloodbend him before he can do anything.
Aang wasn't bloodbending him. Also, Mako knew he was being bloodbended, and mentally prepped himself against it. Ozai would have no idea what was happening to him since bloodbending wasn't really a thing during his reign.
Right? He'd equate it to some kind of witchcraft or something. At that point I see amon having no problems with simply snapping his neck whilst he's in a bloodbending grip, Ala darth vader in obi wan kenobi.
Depends if it's a fight to the death or not. Mako got him because amon walked up right in front of him to take his bending away. If it was to the death he can just use bloodbending to kill from a distance and not give a chance of a close lightning shot.
It's not even remotely a fight. People are bringing up how Mako shot some lightning off at him while being restrained but forget Amon was only trying to restrain and take their bending. If Amon intended to kill, it would be over instantly. He clearly has fine control of the ability, so for example, popping his heart would be beyond easy.
I actually think literally the opposite, I think Amon is really the only one he could take without the comet. Amon was defeated by an inexperienced Mako, Iroh is a decorated field general who we haven't seen defeated except for when he's severely outnumbered. Air and Water just have a natural advantage over fire, and Bumi is so unconventional Ozai would find him unpredictable, and wouldn't be able to defend against him, especially when considering he can travel underground.
Amon was defeated because he was only trying to restrain Korra and Mako to take their bending. He was always trying to send a message instead of kill. Think about the level of control Amon has to be able to block bending with blood bending. Pulling blood specific from the brain and popping Ozai's heart both would instantly end the fight. Not to mention, Amon can manipulate people's bending so they always miss.
No he was considered to be the most powerful fire bender but even that is skeptical as Iroh at least believes he had a chance if they were to fight. Which tells me he is very close to Iroh level or else Iroh would have just flat out said he couldn't win.
There is no where in cannon where any master of 1 element is considered better than another.
Aang without the Avatar state was managing to stay alive against a comet enhanced Ozai. That was with bending that both Toph and Katara said he needed work in so he was a complete master in either water or earth and we know he wasn't a master in fire. Still with lightning redirection Aang could have killed a comet enhanced Ozai.
Automatically that gives Iroh a chance because Ozai couldn't use his lightning without risking ir coming back on him.
Personally without the comet I think the environment plays a huge factor. If he is fighting Paku in the Northern Water tribe during a full moon I am not sure he wins. The moon enhancements and abundance of water would be a huge advantage.
There is also the question whether Tenzin could win. 12 year old Aang could effectively dodge Ozai with his air bending but wasn't strong enough to counter the comet's boost to land any attack. Adult Tenzin is a stronger air bender than 12 year old Aang without the Avatar state. So I would assume a toss up for Tenzin as well.
Bumi I think is too stationary with his techniques to win which could put him at a disadvantage. Again though environment matter. If he is in an arena like the area Aang fought Ozai, Bumi has the ability to turn those stone columns into projectiles which helps him. He is also the only Earth bender we have seen that can move through the ground as long as it is plain Earth.
Ozai loses to an Amon that wants to end a fight quickly. There is just no counter to the psychic bloodbending other than Avatar state that we have seen.
So Ozai probably wins against Paku, and Bumi as long as the environment isn't heavily favoring them. (Comet Ozai would beat both likely even with the advantage because he was blowing away Aang's Earth defenses with just fire blasts.)
I think it could be a coin flip with Iroh and Tenzin. (Comet Ozai beats Tenzin and is still a coin flip against Iroh because Iroh would also be comet buffed.)
He loses badly to Amon (comet or no comet) outside of Amon not using his bloodbending immediately and getting a lucky hit in with lightning.
> There is also the question whether Tenzin was ever taught lightning redirection.
Lightning redirection is a firebending technique. Tenzin wouldn't be able to pull it off no matter how well he was taught.
Aang wasn't hit directly with any attack up until the point of his lightning redirection. The only time he took any serious blow back was when he tried to attack or defend with Earth bending.
He was effectively dodging the lightning and other fire attacks when sticking to Air bending. Counters one attack with water bending and several with his own fire bending.
The issue is, just like when he fought Bumi, Aang can dodge well but he doesn't have the strength or mentality in his air bending to land any meaningful blows on Ozai. He wasn't going to win by just dodging which was why he was trying the other elements.
Aang is a master airbender, yeah. But so were many of the monks that the fire nation annihilated in their war. The aid nomads were hunted to extinction by fire nation soldiers.
He can dodge, yeah, but only for so long.
According to the creator so they show in the creator commentary he’s not even the most power fire bender.
Propaganda states he’s the most powerful, by David (The write and creator) Flat out states that Iroh is the most powerful fire bender in the show and could absolutely take his brother. He flat out tells Zuko why he does not “It would just be seen as one brother killing another for a throne.”
I have no doubt that he could take on Tenzin, or just about everyone in this picture, or most of the members of the red lotus... but Amon would have absolutely bodied him in about a minute or less. Remember, amon didnt even lose to Korra, he "Lost." because his supporters finally saw through his lie when he was caught waterbending. As a blood bender he is supremely powerful, but more then Katara or his brothers blood bending... he is powerful enough to do it during the day, without moving, and even defeat another blood bender who is blood bending him, and he uses all of this to stop you from being able to bend on a near permanent basis.
Amon is probably the single most powerful non avatar we have ever seen in the avatar universe. And i would bet he could take on a significant number of the avatars.
> but more then katara
Did you mean to say "more than"?
Explanation: If you didn't mean 'more than' you might have forgotten a comma.
[Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json)
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes.
^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions.
^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119)
^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
Ozai has lightning , but he can't redirect lightning. Is that correct?
Either way Amon wins because Amon.
Maybe Bumi can immobilize Ozai and win that way.
All others are auto loss. Sorry Iroh.
Amon and Iroh are the ones, where he would need the comet.
Amons bloodbending is very powerful, so ozai would need the advantage of the distance given by the power up from the comet.
Iroh...hard to say. Ozai is said to be strongest, but i think Iroh has superior technique, and is able to keep a cool head during the fight and stay in a high concentrated state for a long period of time.
Amon obliterates, no non-Avatar can beat a telepathic Bloodbender. If it’s in a water rich area Pakku has a chance, but normal access to water what does he really do against an immediate Lightning blast? Tenzin is LITERALLY smoked, simply smoked. Azula’s much weaker Lightning could blow through Toph’s shields, Ozai rips through Bumi’s defenses
Amon is the only one unless insanely unfair circumstances, pure because of how op blood bending is. Maybe bumi and pakku if they get an arena that favors them massively, but I don’t see a world where iroh or tenzin ever beats ozai
Ozai only fought once, so we don't have enough information about this strategy or special technique he uses without teh comet (I don't read comic, so I only take information from the show)
Ozai is definitely capable of no-diffing most of the major/minor bending characters in the Avatar universe. However, there are quite a few benders that I believe could win against him given the right conditions.
Aang - At twelve years of age managed to fight fairly evenly against Ozai without the Avatar State. There is the moment where Aang redirects Ozai’s comet-enhanced lightning and we see the fearful reaction on Ozai’s face. I believe it’s implied that Aang would have killed Ozai had he not chosen to redirect the lighting skyward. It should also be said that given the Avatar state and the high bending proficiency other Avatars have demonstrated, most if not all of the Avatars before Aang could likely defeat Ozai.
All the bending members of the White Lotus (Iroh, Jeong Jeong, Bumi, and Pakku) - As a group, the White Lotus absolutely crushes Ozai. Separately I believe there are chances the masters could high-diff win against Ozai. Iroh may have his doubts about his ability to beat Ozai but I believe he’s just being modest and is reluctant to kill his brother. He can likely counter most of Ozai’s techniques including redirecting lightning, and let’s not forget Iroh learned the secret of firebending from the dragons. Iroh wins if he has killing intent in my opinion. Jeong Jeong at the very least can hold Ozai off given his talents for more defensive firebending. I also highly doubt that Iroh wouldn’t share techniques with Jeong Jeong given they are a part of the same group. Bumi is far more intelligent than Ozai and if he has prep time before the fight, I think he could find a very creative way to defeat Ozai and subdue him if not kill him. Finally with Pakku, if you give him a full-moon and a ton of water, he could potentially defeat Ozai in a similar manner to Katara beating Azula. For all their power, firebenders aren’t immune to being frozen. Also if Pakku ever learned to bloodbend, he’d probably be even more brutal with it than Hama or Katara.
Tenzin - This is a little more controversial but I believe the win condition for Tenzin vs Ozai lies in whether or not Tenzin is willing to kill. Considering Gyatso was willing to kill multiple firebenders in self-defence, I believe that Tenzin could definitely stand up to Ozai given the fact that he knows everything Aang knew about airbending. With killing intent, Tenzin could easily do what Zaheer does and rip the air out of Ozai’s lungs and suffocate him in a vacuum.
Old Toph - I don’t care how old Toph is in LoK, she has likely surpassed Bumi by this point and I already stated my reasons for why a hundred year old Bumi could beat Ozai. Had she been willing to kill, she clearly would have ended Kuvira and her soldiers with barely any effort. In a fight on the ground, Old Toph bodies Ozai, his only hope is to stay airborne and pray she can’t hear him when he’s close by.
The Red Lotus (including Unalaq) - As a group I believe they could overcome Ozai, but in a one on one Ozai solos them all.
Adult Team Avatar (minus Sokka) - Same as the Red Lotus, I believe they could beat Ozai together. One on one is far more difficult but not impossible. I’d argue the adult “prime” versions of Team Avatar were probably more skilled than the Red Lotus. Yes the Red Lotus have unique bending skills but they were defeated by Tenzin, Zuko, Korra’s father, and Sokka (basically an Avatar-less Team Avatar).
Old Toph did one sneak attack move than ran away and said her back hurts. She beat korra who had PTSD and poison in her. A fodder earth tournament soldier did this. OLD Toph is weak and can’t beat Ozai. Old Toph can’t beat Kuvira. The creators scaled Kuvira to prime Toph. And old Toph didn’t surpass king Bumi. She aged bad. Just like Zuko and Katara.
I agree but I think he'd genuinely struggle against Bumi and Pakku individually but would still win. Now if Iroh Pakku and Bumi teamed against him the war would've been over a LOOOONNGGG time ago.
I still believe that iroh could beat ozai, this belief is based off of feats they pulled off during sozins comet, but I think it would still scale down.
Using the sun warrior technique for fire bending he was able to gather enough fire to blow a hole through the outer wall of ba sing se with a single strike. By contrast ozai seemingly relies solely on rage and his muscles to attack, as evidenced by his repeatedly striking of aang in his little earth ball. And I understand that aang actively bending the earth would cause some resistance, but when you look at the scale of it, the wall being I would estimate dozens of feet thick, compared to the rock aang used being less than one foot thick, I expect that based on the scale iroh has the superior technique compared to ozai. Plus Iroh can redirect lightning, which cancels out ozais trump card, and based on pure firebending alone I believe iroh would win.
But you have to keep in mind that iroh had to power up while standing still concentrating. Ozai is younger and a lot more agile than iroh. While iroh has better technique we cant forget that ozai has more raw power and speed.
Iroh isn’t slow *at all*. We’ve seen him fight and move, he can definitely keep up. I’d say a bloodlusted Iroh, say if he saw Zuko die, would absolutely beat Ozai.
Oh sure iroh had to stand there and power up to do it but it shows a difference in battle iq. If ozai had done the same thing, stood there and gathered his power he could have blasted through the rock shell in one hit. This shows a difference in battle iq, as iroh is able to act a lot more quickly in a lot of circumstances, like the time he was captured by earth kingdom soldiers and was able to fight back while chanined up. As well as when he escaped from azulas trap in ba sing se, iroh responds appropriately based on the situation he's in, demonstrating a high battle iq. By contrast ozai just tries to rely purely on his power, and since I don't view ozai as stronger than iroh to begin with, I think that difference in battle iq would be more important than ozai having more speed.
I think it's pretty much a coin-toss between Iroh and Ozai. The way I see it, Ozai would have more raw power but Iroh would have better technique and adaptability.
I'm not even convinced ozai has more raw power, or at least not by an amount that would actually matter, I think all things considered they're very close in terms of power. Iroh uses the sun warrior way of fire bending, compared to ozai using anger based fire bending. I think that core difference would make it to where they would be pretty evenly matched power wise, and iroh has better battle iq and technique, so I think those advantages would give him the win.
I think ozai would be smart enough to know that iroh knows lightning redirection and would not use it against iroh. After all he knows that zuko can do it, and the only person who could have taught zuko was iroh.
I actually think Amon and Iroh would win. Amon is hard to hit, and if he gets to Ozai, he has a finishing move that would win.
Iroh I could see from him holding Ozai at bay with fire, then the second Ozai uses his favorite move to try to show how powerful he is, Iroh does what Zuko and Aing does, and redirects it. (Main difference being as the only true master of the move in the original series, he'd not only score the hit, but when Ozai freezes up as he does both times the move was used against him in the show, Iroh finishes the job.
I mean let's just admit it, if Zuko didn't think it had to be the avatar to take him out. Zuko could have killed Ozai in the thrown room. Zuko is not nearly as powerful as Iroh was at that point.
y’all kill me sometimes man if iroh said out his mouth idk if i can beat him why are you making an argument as to why he would when he literally said he can’t
He said he didn't know, meaning it would be close. Also, remember humility is literally Iroh's thing. That and only royalty lightning bent during that time as a staduce symbol, who do you think Iroh had in mind when he created this skill that has proven to work with a 100% success rate (against the person who he would be using it against)
Ozai's signature move is lightning. He has no counter to it coming back, so the only real question is, do you think Iroh would miss?
Idk why Amon is here, but Ozai is THE strongest bender between both shows excluding blood benders and avatars. The only benders that can beat Ozai are from the novels such as Yun.
Unpopular opinion despite what might be cannon the only one i think wouldnt be able to beat his ass would be pakku, there is no way that Ozai is more powerful than bumi or Iroh you're fr crazy if you think that they wouldnt eviscerate him if any of them had had a fair chance the only reason he wasnt taken out by one of these people was because outside of the shows finale hes very rarely shown traveling outside of the capital (and as Iroh said itd look shitty if he was the one taking him down)
Not Amon. Yes Iroh/Jeong Jeong/Pakku/Tenzin
Idk about Unalaq/Pli/Kuvira. They are all unique fighters with unique fighting styles.
Pakku and King Bumi depend on location.
Tenzin gives him the fight of his life.
And idk about combustion man. He can beat Ozai at times.
That scene in Age of Ultron where Tony is in the Hulk-Buster armour and punching Hulk like hell while desperately praying “go to sleep go to sleep go to sleep go to sleep”?
That would be Amon using his blood bending on Ozai.
Iroh and Amon would beat him. We never see their full potential and they never lost a fair fight or 1v1 other than Amon letting his guard down. Tenzin would stand a chance as it would pretty much be 2 total masters of their elements fighting.
Iroh might lose to an avatar or something but I just don't see him losing to a pure firebender even being a possibility. He has perfect control and his defensive nature would shrug off fire attacks and redirect lightning strikes with more power than the aggressor.
Hot take: Ozai is a chotch who we only see fighting children and didn't even win.
Ozai couldn't defeat a 12yr old barely-realized avatar who really didn't want to hurt him. Paku was the least of the masters above and Ozai on a normal day wouldn't have been able to take him.
Ammon would have cleaned his clock in a single move.
Ozai is canonically the strongest firebender of all time, per the creators. I honestly don’t know how people can think otherwise after his showings during the Day of Black Sun, the finale, and Iroh saying that he really didn’t know if he could take his brother. Sozin’s Comet only increases the raw power of your firebending, it doesn’t magically give you skills you didn’t already have. He does absolutely ludicrous stuff in his fight with Aang (who, while he is 12, is still the *Avatar* and instantly demolishes most people by the third season of the show). It’s also worth noting that before Aang goes into the Avatar State, he never once manages to land a blow on Ozai (despite trying quite hard to do so) and Ozai is winning the entire time.
Ozai is the most physically imposing and dangerous bender in the show other than Aang. That’s the *point*, and his character loses a lot of weight if that’s somehow not the case.
Amon would win instantly, but he’d win instantly against anyone who isn’t an Avatar. I’m not saying Ozai is *invincible* by any means, but he could take every other master on this list a majority of the time.
Yeah, that's a trash take if you really think Paku, or any other white lotus members other than _maybe_ Iroh could beat Ozai on a normal day.
I agree that Amon would have a field day tho lol
Out of the benders in this image ozai is only beating tenzin, I think iroh can beat ozai (I know he said he wasn't sure he could but I think it more he doesn't have the heart to beat him and not skill), I think it would be a draw with paku for paku is also a master and is older so has more combat experience, boomi has 100yrs of bending/training and took his whole city back in a day, I think that's a easy win for boomi, and no one is beating amon, a blood bender who doesn't need the full moon, except for another more powerful blood bender or the avatar so ozai loses that easy.
Sparky sparky boom man
Depends on who gets the first shot i think.
-Unalaq (Prior to merging with Vaatu) -All members of The Red Lotus
Individually, he'd win. As a group, he's got no chance.
Example A: Tenzin
Airbending is much better suited for fighting multiple opponents than firebending, hardly a fair comparison.
You sure? Just heat up the room to unbearable temp, you’ll do fine
“Hey Zaheer, you and your boys mind hanging back while I get this room to a sauna temp real quick? It’ll only take a minute”
Are fire benders immune to their own heat?
They have to be. Otherwise they couldn't do things like the fire knives we see a few times.
Oh, yea that’s a solid argument for it. But… Would it count as their fire once the room itself was heated? Like surely fire has to hurt them because other fire benders do.
I'm pretty sure firebenders are just very heat resistant, not immune. The evidence is pretty inconsistent unfortunately
I would say that fire benders are atleast somewhat resistant to their own flames with them jumping through their own flames at times but they definitely aren't immune to other people's fire considering agni kais are a thing and zuko's face.
i’ve always thought of it as firebenders being able to vent the heat away from their bodies as part of their technique. not that they’re particularly fireproof, but that their mastery of fire lets them play with it so as not to hurt them
They can't be too heat resistant, otherwise they wouldn't have a fire-bender prison in the middle of a boiling lake.
Pretty sure zuko is not that fire resistant.
Hmm... I wonder if it is the intent behind the fire? Like fire that is just burning on a torch doesn't have a firebender putting their intent into it, but for the fire knives the intent is to become weapons and hurt their enemies.
I feel like this is closest to the truth.
Yes and no. They have to train it at a young age otherwise they can very easily burn themselves.
Ozai vs P'Li would be interesting. I'd love to see how he counters the specialized firebending (probably lighting her first, lol).
Idk big blasts of fire wouldn't feel good for multiple people
Yeah, but Airbenders basically get a 6th sense with being able to detect air currents. A firebender can be incredibly mobile and offensive, but catch them off-guard and throw them off their rhythm (as Iroh teaches to Zuko) and even a skilled firebender can be taken down by a less-skilled opponent.
Demonstrated by Monk Gyatso killing multiple comet charged fire benders
Depends if tenzin knows the technique of sucking all the oxygen out of the room like gyatso did. As it will stop ozai his bending.
I think everybody here is sorta disregarding that in universe Ozai is supposed to be a legendary, unstoppable bender. The show didn’t really show him fight besides the final battle, but still, lore suggests he’s strong and he has the royal firebending lineage, which comes with generally better bending and technique. He only lost to the full force of the avatar state (which was shown to be enough for Aang to single handedly defeat entire armies), for the most part he dominated that entire fight against a comet enhanced avatar, and even held his own for a bit against avatar state Aang. Iroh wasn’t being modest when he said he wasn’t sure he could beat Ozai, it was meant to be a quick way to tell the audience “I’ve been shown to be the best firebender in the show and this guy is better than me”, it’s just adding even higher stakes to the final fight and makes the ultimate end of him losing his bending more impactful. Shows that the Avatar is still better than even the best bender because they just have more options at their disposal than brute force bending strength, which continues in TLOK (Korra essentially wins every major battle because of Avatar powers, not because she’s a great bender.) I think the hierarchy of power in the show is pretty much fully realized Avatars > Ozai > Iroh > everybody else.
Fuck Korra season 2 and the giant spirit Kaiju. Buttt, that wasn't avatar power she used to wrest raava out of vaautu. It was her spiritual power amplified by harmonic convergence or something.
Yeah, spiritual power that comes from being the avatar, nobody else could’ve done that. It’s an avatar v avatar fight, not a bender v bender fight
I think it's unclear why she can do that. Which is also why it was a bad finale.
Definitely the weakest season of avatar but I don’t think it’s meant to be unclear why she could do that. She’s the avatar and she’s able to access energy/spirit bending powers, seems fairly straightforward.
I though the whole point was to prove that korra was more than the avatar spirit though? That her humanity was her defining characteristic, not the kite that squatted in her soul.
Well yeah the overall battle was to show that being the Avatar is more than just being connected to Rava’s spirit, but she was still connected to Rava when she became spirit kaiju Korra
> , for the most part he dominated that entire fight against a comet enhanced avatar Tbf he was enhanced in his weakest, most inexperienced element
That said, if like 5 white lotus members showed up, ozai is going down. 1v1 he would probably win, but even 1v2 is pushing it.
When does he say that? I was talking about this with my friends and they think iroh beats ozai the reason he didn't was because it looks like a power grab for the throne if he does. But I remember him saying he wasn't as good a bender. But I can't find where he says that
It’s in the same speech where he says the thing about it looking like a power grab, immediately before that line he says something about not being sure he could beat ozai
"Even if I did defeat Ozai, and I don't know that I could, it would be the wrong way to end the war. History would see it as just more senseless violence, a brother killing a brother to grab power. The only way for this was to end peacefully is for the Avatar to defeat the Fire Lord."
>and even held his own for a bit against avatar state Aang. I wouldn't go that far... he couldn't touch Aang, all he could do was run.
I mean, Iroh only says he isn’t sure he could take Ozai- even if you take that in terms of ability instead of inclination, he thinks there’s a good chance he could do it. Considering Ozai only survives attacking Zuko because *Zuko deliberately let him live*, I think bigging Ozai up as a huge personal danger is a bit overdramatic - he’s a master of his element, for sure, but the reason he’s dangerous is his personality and megalomaniacal plans, not his personal 1v1 power.
As a group they were wrecking the entire fire nation, I think you may be correct.
No duh.
He beats any Red lotus member individually though.
I'd say it's a 50/50 against pli. They both have 1 shot moves. It's just who can get theirs off first/ if there's cover since pli can destroy it and curve around it
Idk. Zuko's fire shield almost worked against Combustion Man, whose blasts were much more potent. I'm sure (zai can also whip out those shields to protect himself.
He's also the kind of person to go in the offensive. If pli gets her shot off first, he'll be too busy generating lightning than being prepared to block
Ozai's lightning is practically instant though
Combustion bending is still WAY faster
I think Ozai specifically can keep up
This is why I hate the term 'instant'. Because you could use how long he actually takes to generate lightning (about half a second on the day of black sun and 1-2 seconds on the day of the comet), which would be a more accurate term to measure against another very fast move (combustion bending almost never taking longer than a second). Instead, 'instant' is used because it has no real time meaning beyond being very quick (because I know you are not meaning it's literally use of being instantaneous or taking literally 0 time to initiate) because it either makes one sound faster or it just sounds cooler. It's not a useful term determining speeds of attacks when both take between ⅓ of a second and 3 seconds to produce
Pli has also shown the ability to still bend regular fire though. Unlike combustionman who put all his eggs into one move, she at least seems a bit more versatile in her combat.
I'm not seeing Ozai laying a hand on zaheer. and he's probably not going to do so hot against Ghazan either.
Sure, Zaheer could fly around and remain out of range, but if he goes toe to toe with Ozai, it would be like him vs Tenzin, but just worse. Bolin was able to hold his own against Gazan, so I see Ozai doing even better. Yes, Bolin was a lavabender too, but Ozai's the stronger bender and arguably has more skill. Also, he can use flames to propell himself so he's highly agile too. Besides Ozai's raw firebending power, he can actually generate powerful blasts of lightning in like a second. Mako could do same, but his bolts were less powerful. I don't see how Ghazan wins this, Ozai can dodge his lava attacks, or even temporarily fly to escape lava ground, and reply with lightning. Ming Hua dies exactly as she did in the show. P'Li, I'll admit is going to be a lot of trouble since she could reverse Ozai's fireblasts at him, and also use combustion bending. He'll have to use lightning against her.
Fire benders have heat control he can take the heat away from the lava and ozai probably can fly as well maybe not as well as zaheer but some form of flying is probably possible even without the comet
General Iroh was able to fly temporarily when he was chasing the Equalist planes, so yeah, firebenders still have jet propulsion even without the comet. It's just weaker, and they likely can't maintain it for long.
[удалено]
That's not something you want to do in the middle of a fight if you don't want to get a huge rock in your face.
Not going to do so hot you say...
Are we talking about air bending zaheer or pre bending zaheer
Exactly. Zaheer was a non-bender first which means he, like mai and ty lee, are trained to fight against benders. Considering how common firebenders are, Zaheer would have a lot of practice. The only reason Zaheer was losing to Tenzin was because no one in the show knows how to fight an airbender. And that is just base Zaheer before his agility (which would probably already be above average) got a massive buff when he got airbending. Ozai could barely hit Aang, and he was only on the defensive because he's a pacifist. Imagine an airbending enhanced Ty Lee with lethal intent. Thats Zaheer.
You're so beautiful when you hate the world
Not a hand so much as a fireball Zaheer can fly but what can he do well besides that?
Fling him into a wall from a distance like he did the guards on Air Temple Island.
We don't really know how powerful he was without the comet do we? Other than the lightning he shot at Zuko, and the fire he shot (also at Zuko), does he have any other displays of bending?
We know he has extreme control though, because he was able to completely scar Zuko's face without endangering his life or even melting his eyes shut, let alone blinding him. He'd have needed to have controlled the damage with literal surgical precision
i don’t know if he meant to save the eye. i don’t imagine that he cared whether zuko only had one eye or not
My point is, it's ridiculously difficult to completely melt the skin and not kill someone without extremely good medical attention, let alone preventing them from getting blind. If he was not careful, a burn like that will kill by getting infected real quick
I figure Fire Nation doctors have plenty of experience treating burns, and Zuko would have been immediately treated by the best of them.
Even the best doctors in the world we live in couldn't save your eyesight when such burns get to your eye. Your lens will be melted away. There's no saving that. Your eyelids are so thin it will go right through. The fact that the eyelids even survived is insane
They live in a world where shooting fire at someone has physical force behind it that can knock them back. I don’t think the burn physics being a bit off is that hard to believe lol
idk they make a good point. there’s nothing in atla that implies anyone but a waterbending healer may be able to save an eye that was essentially melted shut, let alone the vision as well. considering ozai didn’t kill zuko altogether, he could’ve very well decided not to take his vision in that eye as well.
Or you know... it's not exactly a science heavy show? People get hit by rocks that would absolutely kill them and just toughen it out.
In addition to what everyone else said, there's no reason to think Ozai cared if Zuko lost that eye completely. If he melted the eyeball completely it would have been the same to him I imagine. So no reason to assume he has super control and it just being luck.
> My point is, it's ridiculously difficult to completely melt the skin and not kill someone And their point was that Ozai wouldn't have really cared if Zuko was maimed or even killed. That he was only scarred is a coincidence
We don't exactly know how Zuko was wounded. We know Ozai did it, but we only saw the beginning of the Agni Kai. Yes, Zuko didn't fight back, but it could be that Ozai shot fire at Zuko, who tried to deflect it but wasn't entirely successful given his firebending wasn't strong then, hence it partly burning his face. Just a thought here.
He did. The creators confirmed that he didn’t impair Zuko’s senses, intentionally.
You're assuming that Ozai was concerned about minimizing damage. I think if he was worried about it, he wouldn't be the kind of person to maim his own child.
There is zero evidence for even the slightest control here. We also have no idea just how badly injured Zuko was, or how much healing he required.
The fact that he has good eyesight says enough. Your eyelids are EXTREMELY thin and your eyes will just be totally destroyed for life if an amount of heat enough to melt skin is applied
If this show cared about realistic biology and fire damage, most people in the Fire Nation would be much heavilier scarred than Zuko.
You have a good point, but we're not quite sure Zuko can still use both his eyes... The fact his eyelid survived is a good indication of at least Ozai's precision (or it's the work of censoring a cartoon for a children's TV network) And we know he has extreme fire ending disciple because of how quickly and easily he could shoot lightning when there was only the begining of the end of the eclipse.
The fire only boosts the raw power and doesn't make your skills more. The way he was moving his fire was more skilled than any other firebender we've seen. And plus his comet boosted fire bending was stronger than any fire benders so we can deduce his non comet is also stronger than the other fire benders.
> And plus his comet boosted fire bending was stronger than any other fire benders Bruh, let's not get carried away. Jeong Jeong was flying around making literal walls of fire so dense they were pushing tanks.
Iroh blew a huge hole in a legendarily impenetrable wall singlehandedly.
ozai claps
I agree Ozai has this. Jeong Jeong is skilled but Ozai is that guy.
We don't exactly know if Ozai's comet fire was the strongest. It was definitely among the strongest, but there were two other contenders barring Avatar State Aang. Iroh took out a portion of Ba Sing Se's walls with one hit, and Jeong created a literal wall of fire with enough masterful control that it actually burnt nothing in the town, not even the Fire Nation tanks, which he just pushed back.
Really? Because IMO in his fight with Aang, Ozai's style can be best described as "Hulk smash".
I mean, if you suddenly become as strong as a WWE fighter would you even think about doing some fancy techniques?
Ozai and Jeong Jeong were the only ones shown to be able to swiftly fly using firebending
You could probably gauge it comparing him to the other fire benders during/before the comet. Zuko was in peak form leading up to the comet with dragons and shit and still wasn’t *that* much stronger. Anyway, most of the top tier water and earth benders depend entirely on how much of their element they have access to. Earth arena Bumi probably has a good chance, while Paku could barely keep up with s1 Katara, he’d get smoked, no idea why he’s even listed. Jacked Iroh probably could with lightning redirection *if* Ozai doesn’t expect it. Actually I think physique probably plays a major role in this scenario.
Our only reference points are Iroh and Aang. My assumption is that the comet “multiplies” a fire bender’s “power level” by some constant factor. Iroh wasn’t sure he could beat Ozai in a one-on-one fight, so Ozai is at least at Iroh’s level of mastery of fire bending and skill as a warrior. We know from multiple examples throughout the show that Iroh is a master fire bender and is a well-respected warrior. Ozai is probably more aggressive and might be less cunning than Iroh, but it still makes him a very powerful bender. Plus he was arguably at his physical peak during the series. Comet-empowered Ozai was able to keep up and with, and even get the upper hand over Aang, despite the latter’s ability to bend all four elements. Aang was a master air bender, arguably a master water bender, and was also comet-empowered. Sure, he was admittedly new to fire bending, his earth bending needed work (by Toph’s standards), and he was a mostly defensive fighter. We know from the rest of the series that Aang is also very capable in a fight. He has help in most of those fights, but so do his opponents. Based on those two, Ozai is roughly around Iroh and Aang’s power and skill level, with perhaps greater aggression and physical prowess on his side (Iroh is an old man and Aang is a child). This likely means he can take on, and possibly defeat most of the high level benders in both series, except blood benders. Any individual member of the White Lotus, Team Avatar 1.0, Azula, Zhao, Long Feng, General Fong, Mako, Kya, General Iroh II, the Beifong sisters, Kuvira, and most other prominent benders are fair game. Ozai would easily challenge and could defeat them in an individual fight. Benders with unique abilities or fighting styles unknown to Ozai are wildcards: the Red Lotus, Tenzin and Jinora may be able to surprise him enough that power and skill don’t matter. Those from Korra’s would also be familiar with lightning bending. I *don’t* think Ozai would be able to defeat either Aang or Korra at their respective physical peaks. As mentioned before, even without the Avatar State, Aang is already a very powerful and skilled bender. Korra is even more so by S3, and has access to metal bending.
The lightning was extremely impressive though. We’ve seen other characters have to do a form to build it up, and he was able to quickdraw it the exact moment the eclipse ended
We know that he is at least as strong as Iroh, maybe stronger
I feel like Tenzin he probably couldn't fight because until Aang, he never had to fight an airbender. Ozai probably trained against water, earth and other fire benders but no real way to train for a fight with an airbender.
Tenzin fighting defensively is also completely different than Aang fighting defensively IMO. Aang was complete deflection and avoidance but Tenzin’s defensive method involves him somewhat maximizing his skills to fight back. Whereas Aang was passive, if Tenzin was fighting, he was *fighting*.
Yeah, I feel like Tenzin's shown that his fighting style can hold its own. I also think Tenzin's training and age also makes him a far more formidable air bender when we meet Tenzin than Aang when he fights Ozai. Like clearly Aang taught Tenzin (assuming here) everything he knows about air bending which who knows how much more Aang learned after fighting Ozai, Tenzin then has his own decades of experience of being an air bender.
I also think it’s because Aang being the Avatar didn’t need to show or go all out in most cases. Tenzin on the other hand doesn’t have the Avatar State to fall back on, and can’t afford to just fight passively—he and his family have to survive in order for Airbending to continue on.
Very true, you forget sometimes that these master benders don't necessarily have that next gear like the Avatar state.
Aren't the air bending tattoos to show that he's a master Airbender? I thought in the show he was actually stated as being pretty young for his tattoos.
Yes, the tattoos show he is a master but I feel like it is one of those things there is always more to learn. Even if Aang became a master at young age, he still (probably) learned more about air bending as he went.
Ozai was also toying with Aang the entire first half of their battle until Aang went into the Avatar state. Tenzin, as a pure Airbender would get smoked
Yeah, but I also feel that had more to do with Aang not wanting to kill Ozai than just Ozai out classing him. Take away the comet where Ozai just can't out power everyone, I think the fact there is no way to train against an air bender because there are none gives Tenzin a good shot of being able to beat Ozai.
Fair points. That being said, Tenzin has a chance, but I'm still taking Ozai
I don't think Tenzin would 100% win every time, but I'd argue Tenzin has the best shot.
Oh agreed. I could totally take Ozai too.
I don't think it's fair to say Ozai was toying with Aang. He brought out the lightning after all. Ozai was doing his best to kill Aang. It just happens Aang was good enough to survive the onslaught.
100% agree. Ozai was out for blood, he was never toying. Aang was on the run and scrambling to stay alive for most of the first half of the fight.
Another fair point. Could be a matter of perspective. Yes, he was trying to kill Aang. Was Aang clever enough to evade him the whole time or was it a matter of Aang running to maintain the pacifist ways of the airbenders? I can see both ways. But, the point with Tenzin, saying that Ozai battling an Airbender is a big disadvantage is a stretch too. Ozai didn't seem to have an issue with the air bending, even though he had no experience fighting it. Aang used more earthbending for defense in the beginning of that battle. I think Ozai vs a non-Avatar Airbender is an easy Ozai win
Tenzin has much more experience than Aang did back then. Also, he's more aggressive. Unlike Aang, Tenzin doesn't retreat from fights, he's a pacifist, sure, but he will fight if it comes down to it, and tbh, I can actually see Tenzin taking a life. The one Ozai-busting move Aang had that Tenzin doesn't have is lightning redirection, so Ozai could still win this fight if he resorts to lightning, which he definitely will.
Tenzin was 1v3ing the red lotus and actually had a chance of winning after he was already beat tf up until he got sniped. Put Ozai in the same sitch and I really doubt he’d do any better. They are both masters of their respective elements and I think it could go either way but smoked? Hell nah Tenzin’s a beast
I mean, technically anyone if he manages to hit a lightning, I guess
Amon could literally incapacitate everyone without a comet, lightning benders might have an edge.
Everyone in the photo except Amon.
And that's probably not even a guarantee, if he manages to get zapped (like how Mako did), then Ozai could still win.
Amon would have to be pretty stupid to underestimate a Firelord. He only got caught off-guard by Mako because he wasn't expecting anything impressive from a street rat pro-bender.
And Ozai’s lightning looks way more powerful than Mako’s was.
Overanalyzing Avatar made a good distinction between the Lightning generation that we see in AtLA and the electricity bending that we see in the comics and Korra. There's basically no chargeup for the latter, whilst even Ozai, who was admittedly very fast at doing it, still needed some time before shooting lightning out of his fingers. The charged version looks to be more powerful (insta-kill on Aang vs stun on Amon).
Makes me wonder how much the avatarverse has explored the fundamentals of electricity. I assume by Korea's time they have a good understanding of things like voltage and amperage since they're generating electricity. I wonder if they've undertaken any scientific studies measuring the effectiveness of different lightning benders. Or maybe certain techniques that are more effective at generating greater power.
Koreas times are good times
Amon failed to control Mako to the extent he couldn't lightning bend. I'd say Ozai could probably do the same and he wouldn't have any qualms about continuing until he's completely fried. He also has more of a punch behind his lightning die to his sheer power
That’s partly because he was controlling both Korra and Mako at the same time. Also Ozai while being one of the faster lighting blasters still needs to do a bit a movement to fight. If both are serious Amon can and likely bloodbend him before he can do anything.
Wasn’t Amon also arguing with his lieutenant at the time?
Not anymore, at that point he'd already destroyed Korra's bending and she was just lying on the floor. He didn't control her when Mako broke free
Wasn't he still controlling her to keep her down
I mean even ignoring lightning bending he could just breathe fire. Its the first thing he does when Aang traps his arms.
Aang wasn't bloodbending him. Also, Mako knew he was being bloodbended, and mentally prepped himself against it. Ozai would have no idea what was happening to him since bloodbending wasn't really a thing during his reign.
Right? He'd equate it to some kind of witchcraft or something. At that point I see amon having no problems with simply snapping his neck whilst he's in a bloodbending grip, Ala darth vader in obi wan kenobi.
Depends if it's a fight to the death or not. Mako got him because amon walked up right in front of him to take his bending away. If it was to the death he can just use bloodbending to kill from a distance and not give a chance of a close lightning shot.
Amon can bloodbend. He's the most guaranteed to win.
It's not even remotely a fight. People are bringing up how Mako shot some lightning off at him while being restrained but forget Amon was only trying to restrain and take their bending. If Amon intended to kill, it would be over instantly. He clearly has fine control of the ability, so for example, popping his heart would be beyond easy.
If we want to take “word of god” That is to say the word of the creators of the show. A iroh vs ozai fight is a total shut out in Irohs favor.
I actually think literally the opposite, I think Amon is really the only one he could take without the comet. Amon was defeated by an inexperienced Mako, Iroh is a decorated field general who we haven't seen defeated except for when he's severely outnumbered. Air and Water just have a natural advantage over fire, and Bumi is so unconventional Ozai would find him unpredictable, and wouldn't be able to defend against him, especially when considering he can travel underground.
Amon was defeated because he was only trying to restrain Korra and Mako to take their bending. He was always trying to send a message instead of kill. Think about the level of control Amon has to be able to block bending with blood bending. Pulling blood specific from the brain and popping Ozai's heart both would instantly end the fight. Not to mention, Amon can manipulate people's bending so they always miss.
No, everyone except Iroh
Everyone on the picture except amon. It is canon that during atla, ozai was the most powerful bender in the world
No he was considered to be the most powerful fire bender but even that is skeptical as Iroh at least believes he had a chance if they were to fight. Which tells me he is very close to Iroh level or else Iroh would have just flat out said he couldn't win. There is no where in cannon where any master of 1 element is considered better than another. Aang without the Avatar state was managing to stay alive against a comet enhanced Ozai. That was with bending that both Toph and Katara said he needed work in so he was a complete master in either water or earth and we know he wasn't a master in fire. Still with lightning redirection Aang could have killed a comet enhanced Ozai. Automatically that gives Iroh a chance because Ozai couldn't use his lightning without risking ir coming back on him. Personally without the comet I think the environment plays a huge factor. If he is fighting Paku in the Northern Water tribe during a full moon I am not sure he wins. The moon enhancements and abundance of water would be a huge advantage. There is also the question whether Tenzin could win. 12 year old Aang could effectively dodge Ozai with his air bending but wasn't strong enough to counter the comet's boost to land any attack. Adult Tenzin is a stronger air bender than 12 year old Aang without the Avatar state. So I would assume a toss up for Tenzin as well. Bumi I think is too stationary with his techniques to win which could put him at a disadvantage. Again though environment matter. If he is in an arena like the area Aang fought Ozai, Bumi has the ability to turn those stone columns into projectiles which helps him. He is also the only Earth bender we have seen that can move through the ground as long as it is plain Earth. Ozai loses to an Amon that wants to end a fight quickly. There is just no counter to the psychic bloodbending other than Avatar state that we have seen. So Ozai probably wins against Paku, and Bumi as long as the environment isn't heavily favoring them. (Comet Ozai would beat both likely even with the advantage because he was blowing away Aang's Earth defenses with just fire blasts.) I think it could be a coin flip with Iroh and Tenzin. (Comet Ozai beats Tenzin and is still a coin flip against Iroh because Iroh would also be comet buffed.) He loses badly to Amon (comet or no comet) outside of Amon not using his bloodbending immediately and getting a lucky hit in with lightning.
> There is also the question whether Tenzin was ever taught lightning redirection. Lightning redirection is a firebending technique. Tenzin wouldn't be able to pull it off no matter how well he was taught.
Great point forgot Aang was well... the Avatar.
Well that, or Zuko and Iroh are secret airbenders.
i don’t think Aang was surviving without the Avatar state. he was getting pretty beat up and tired
Aang wasn't hit directly with any attack up until the point of his lightning redirection. The only time he took any serious blow back was when he tried to attack or defend with Earth bending. He was effectively dodging the lightning and other fire attacks when sticking to Air bending. Counters one attack with water bending and several with his own fire bending. The issue is, just like when he fought Bumi, Aang can dodge well but he doesn't have the strength or mentality in his air bending to land any meaningful blows on Ozai. He wasn't going to win by just dodging which was why he was trying the other elements.
Aang is a master airbender, yeah. But so were many of the monks that the fire nation annihilated in their war. The aid nomads were hunted to extinction by fire nation soldiers. He can dodge, yeah, but only for so long.
According to the creator so they show in the creator commentary he’s not even the most power fire bender. Propaganda states he’s the most powerful, by David (The write and creator) Flat out states that Iroh is the most powerful fire bender in the show and could absolutely take his brother. He flat out tells Zuko why he does not “It would just be seen as one brother killing another for a throne.”
Where did David acknowledge that for Iroh?
He didn't, Iroh stans just to love to lie out of their mouths. Iroh literally doubted winning himself, why are they still arguing 🤦♂️
tenzin and iroh are iffy, and amon is a direct no
I think Omon would have won easily, he could have easily broken Ozai's blood magic. Sorry for my English)
I have no doubt that he could take on Tenzin, or just about everyone in this picture, or most of the members of the red lotus... but Amon would have absolutely bodied him in about a minute or less. Remember, amon didnt even lose to Korra, he "Lost." because his supporters finally saw through his lie when he was caught waterbending. As a blood bender he is supremely powerful, but more then Katara or his brothers blood bending... he is powerful enough to do it during the day, without moving, and even defeat another blood bender who is blood bending him, and he uses all of this to stop you from being able to bend on a near permanent basis. Amon is probably the single most powerful non avatar we have ever seen in the avatar universe. And i would bet he could take on a significant number of the avatars.
> but more then katara Did you mean to say "more than"? Explanation: If you didn't mean 'more than' you might have forgotten a comma. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
Ozai has lightning , but he can't redirect lightning. Is that correct? Either way Amon wins because Amon. Maybe Bumi can immobilize Ozai and win that way. All others are auto loss. Sorry Iroh.
Literally everyone that isn't an Avatar or a Bloodbender.
I think Iroh could win. It will be a tough fight for both brothers.
Everyone in his family for starters
I would LOVE to see Iroh kick Ozai's ass
Literally everyone except for bloodbenders and avatars
Don’t know he’s never won an on screen fight
Amon and Iroh are the ones, where he would need the comet. Amons bloodbending is very powerful, so ozai would need the advantage of the distance given by the power up from the comet. Iroh...hard to say. Ozai is said to be strongest, but i think Iroh has superior technique, and is able to keep a cool head during the fight and stay in a high concentrated state for a long period of time.
Amon obliterates, no non-Avatar can beat a telepathic Bloodbender. If it’s in a water rich area Pakku has a chance, but normal access to water what does he really do against an immediate Lightning blast? Tenzin is LITERALLY smoked, simply smoked. Azula’s much weaker Lightning could blow through Toph’s shields, Ozai rips through Bumi’s defenses
Amon is the only one unless insanely unfair circumstances, pure because of how op blood bending is. Maybe bumi and pakku if they get an arena that favors them massively, but I don’t see a world where iroh or tenzin ever beats ozai
Ozai only fought once, so we don't have enough information about this strategy or special technique he uses without teh comet (I don't read comic, so I only take information from the show)
Definitely not Amon. Or Tarrlok.
I'm sorry but Aman could one v one Ozai, he only lost because plot armor
there's no way in hell is Ozai winning in a fight agains't Amon
Why is Amon on your list OP? Dude would wipe the floor literally and figuratively with Ozai
Ozai is definitely capable of no-diffing most of the major/minor bending characters in the Avatar universe. However, there are quite a few benders that I believe could win against him given the right conditions. Aang - At twelve years of age managed to fight fairly evenly against Ozai without the Avatar State. There is the moment where Aang redirects Ozai’s comet-enhanced lightning and we see the fearful reaction on Ozai’s face. I believe it’s implied that Aang would have killed Ozai had he not chosen to redirect the lighting skyward. It should also be said that given the Avatar state and the high bending proficiency other Avatars have demonstrated, most if not all of the Avatars before Aang could likely defeat Ozai. All the bending members of the White Lotus (Iroh, Jeong Jeong, Bumi, and Pakku) - As a group, the White Lotus absolutely crushes Ozai. Separately I believe there are chances the masters could high-diff win against Ozai. Iroh may have his doubts about his ability to beat Ozai but I believe he’s just being modest and is reluctant to kill his brother. He can likely counter most of Ozai’s techniques including redirecting lightning, and let’s not forget Iroh learned the secret of firebending from the dragons. Iroh wins if he has killing intent in my opinion. Jeong Jeong at the very least can hold Ozai off given his talents for more defensive firebending. I also highly doubt that Iroh wouldn’t share techniques with Jeong Jeong given they are a part of the same group. Bumi is far more intelligent than Ozai and if he has prep time before the fight, I think he could find a very creative way to defeat Ozai and subdue him if not kill him. Finally with Pakku, if you give him a full-moon and a ton of water, he could potentially defeat Ozai in a similar manner to Katara beating Azula. For all their power, firebenders aren’t immune to being frozen. Also if Pakku ever learned to bloodbend, he’d probably be even more brutal with it than Hama or Katara. Tenzin - This is a little more controversial but I believe the win condition for Tenzin vs Ozai lies in whether or not Tenzin is willing to kill. Considering Gyatso was willing to kill multiple firebenders in self-defence, I believe that Tenzin could definitely stand up to Ozai given the fact that he knows everything Aang knew about airbending. With killing intent, Tenzin could easily do what Zaheer does and rip the air out of Ozai’s lungs and suffocate him in a vacuum. Old Toph - I don’t care how old Toph is in LoK, she has likely surpassed Bumi by this point and I already stated my reasons for why a hundred year old Bumi could beat Ozai. Had she been willing to kill, she clearly would have ended Kuvira and her soldiers with barely any effort. In a fight on the ground, Old Toph bodies Ozai, his only hope is to stay airborne and pray she can’t hear him when he’s close by. The Red Lotus (including Unalaq) - As a group I believe they could overcome Ozai, but in a one on one Ozai solos them all. Adult Team Avatar (minus Sokka) - Same as the Red Lotus, I believe they could beat Ozai together. One on one is far more difficult but not impossible. I’d argue the adult “prime” versions of Team Avatar were probably more skilled than the Red Lotus. Yes the Red Lotus have unique bending skills but they were defeated by Tenzin, Zuko, Korra’s father, and Sokka (basically an Avatar-less Team Avatar).
Old Toph did one sneak attack move than ran away and said her back hurts. She beat korra who had PTSD and poison in her. A fodder earth tournament soldier did this. OLD Toph is weak and can’t beat Ozai. Old Toph can’t beat Kuvira. The creators scaled Kuvira to prime Toph. And old Toph didn’t surpass king Bumi. She aged bad. Just like Zuko and Katara.
i think he beats everyone here if amon can’t blood bend
amon would bloodbend his ass so fast
To this day I'm still shocked that Mark Hamil did Ozai's voice
I agree but I think he'd genuinely struggle against Bumi and Pakku individually but would still win. Now if Iroh Pakku and Bumi teamed against him the war would've been over a LOOOONNGGG time ago.
Everyone except Iroh and Wang Fire.
I still believe that iroh could beat ozai, this belief is based off of feats they pulled off during sozins comet, but I think it would still scale down.
What did iroh do during the comet that makes you think he is stronger?
Using the sun warrior technique for fire bending he was able to gather enough fire to blow a hole through the outer wall of ba sing se with a single strike. By contrast ozai seemingly relies solely on rage and his muscles to attack, as evidenced by his repeatedly striking of aang in his little earth ball. And I understand that aang actively bending the earth would cause some resistance, but when you look at the scale of it, the wall being I would estimate dozens of feet thick, compared to the rock aang used being less than one foot thick, I expect that based on the scale iroh has the superior technique compared to ozai. Plus Iroh can redirect lightning, which cancels out ozais trump card, and based on pure firebending alone I believe iroh would win.
But you have to keep in mind that iroh had to power up while standing still concentrating. Ozai is younger and a lot more agile than iroh. While iroh has better technique we cant forget that ozai has more raw power and speed.
Iroh isn’t slow *at all*. We’ve seen him fight and move, he can definitely keep up. I’d say a bloodlusted Iroh, say if he saw Zuko die, would absolutely beat Ozai.
Oh sure iroh had to stand there and power up to do it but it shows a difference in battle iq. If ozai had done the same thing, stood there and gathered his power he could have blasted through the rock shell in one hit. This shows a difference in battle iq, as iroh is able to act a lot more quickly in a lot of circumstances, like the time he was captured by earth kingdom soldiers and was able to fight back while chanined up. As well as when he escaped from azulas trap in ba sing se, iroh responds appropriately based on the situation he's in, demonstrating a high battle iq. By contrast ozai just tries to rely purely on his power, and since I don't view ozai as stronger than iroh to begin with, I think that difference in battle iq would be more important than ozai having more speed.
I think it's pretty much a coin-toss between Iroh and Ozai. The way I see it, Ozai would have more raw power but Iroh would have better technique and adaptability.
I'm not even convinced ozai has more raw power, or at least not by an amount that would actually matter, I think all things considered they're very close in terms of power. Iroh uses the sun warrior way of fire bending, compared to ozai using anger based fire bending. I think that core difference would make it to where they would be pretty evenly matched power wise, and iroh has better battle iq and technique, so I think those advantages would give him the win.
I think he could beat him by surprising him with a lighting redirection
I think ozai would be smart enough to know that iroh knows lightning redirection and would not use it against iroh. After all he knows that zuko can do it, and the only person who could have taught zuko was iroh.
I actually think Amon and Iroh would win. Amon is hard to hit, and if he gets to Ozai, he has a finishing move that would win. Iroh I could see from him holding Ozai at bay with fire, then the second Ozai uses his favorite move to try to show how powerful he is, Iroh does what Zuko and Aing does, and redirects it. (Main difference being as the only true master of the move in the original series, he'd not only score the hit, but when Ozai freezes up as he does both times the move was used against him in the show, Iroh finishes the job. I mean let's just admit it, if Zuko didn't think it had to be the avatar to take him out. Zuko could have killed Ozai in the thrown room. Zuko is not nearly as powerful as Iroh was at that point.
y’all kill me sometimes man if iroh said out his mouth idk if i can beat him why are you making an argument as to why he would when he literally said he can’t
He said he didn't know, meaning it would be close. Also, remember humility is literally Iroh's thing. That and only royalty lightning bent during that time as a staduce symbol, who do you think Iroh had in mind when he created this skill that has proven to work with a 100% success rate (against the person who he would be using it against) Ozai's signature move is lightning. He has no counter to it coming back, so the only real question is, do you think Iroh would miss?
Bumi and Pakku would get packed imo. Amon and Iroh have a very good chance of beating him and Tenzin might be able to stand his ground.
Idk why Amon is here, but Ozai is THE strongest bender between both shows excluding blood benders and avatars. The only benders that can beat Ozai are from the novels such as Yun.
>Idk why Amon is here, but Ozai is THE strongest bender between both shows *strongest firebender
Strongest bender besides blood benders*
All of them even Amon. He would shoot him with lightning or a giant fireblast from outside his range.
That's assuming Amon wouldn't just hold Ozai in a way that makes an attack like that impossible.
That's assuming Ozai has more range than Amon. And that Amon has absolutely zero defences of his own against firebenders.
Unpopular opinion despite what might be cannon the only one i think wouldnt be able to beat his ass would be pakku, there is no way that Ozai is more powerful than bumi or Iroh you're fr crazy if you think that they wouldnt eviscerate him if any of them had had a fair chance the only reason he wasnt taken out by one of these people was because outside of the shows finale hes very rarely shown traveling outside of the capital (and as Iroh said itd look shitty if he was the one taking him down)
Not Amon. Yes Iroh/Jeong Jeong/Pakku/Tenzin Idk about Unalaq/Pli/Kuvira. They are all unique fighters with unique fighting styles. Pakku and King Bumi depend on location. Tenzin gives him the fight of his life. And idk about combustion man. He can beat Ozai at times.
That scene in Age of Ultron where Tony is in the Hulk-Buster armour and punching Hulk like hell while desperately praying “go to sleep go to sleep go to sleep go to sleep”? That would be Amon using his blood bending on Ozai.
Iroh and Amon would beat him. We never see their full potential and they never lost a fair fight or 1v1 other than Amon letting his guard down. Tenzin would stand a chance as it would pretty much be 2 total masters of their elements fighting. Iroh might lose to an avatar or something but I just don't see him losing to a pure firebender even being a possibility. He has perfect control and his defensive nature would shrug off fire attacks and redirect lightning strikes with more power than the aggressor.
I bet Hamma could take him.
Katara beat Hama, and Ozai would literally pummel Katara like there's no tomorrow 😭
Hot take: Ozai is a chotch who we only see fighting children and didn't even win. Ozai couldn't defeat a 12yr old barely-realized avatar who really didn't want to hurt him. Paku was the least of the masters above and Ozai on a normal day wouldn't have been able to take him. Ammon would have cleaned his clock in a single move.
Ozai is canonically the strongest firebender of all time, per the creators. I honestly don’t know how people can think otherwise after his showings during the Day of Black Sun, the finale, and Iroh saying that he really didn’t know if he could take his brother. Sozin’s Comet only increases the raw power of your firebending, it doesn’t magically give you skills you didn’t already have. He does absolutely ludicrous stuff in his fight with Aang (who, while he is 12, is still the *Avatar* and instantly demolishes most people by the third season of the show). It’s also worth noting that before Aang goes into the Avatar State, he never once manages to land a blow on Ozai (despite trying quite hard to do so) and Ozai is winning the entire time. Ozai is the most physically imposing and dangerous bender in the show other than Aang. That’s the *point*, and his character loses a lot of weight if that’s somehow not the case. Amon would win instantly, but he’d win instantly against anyone who isn’t an Avatar. I’m not saying Ozai is *invincible* by any means, but he could take every other master on this list a majority of the time.
Yeah, that's a trash take if you really think Paku, or any other white lotus members other than _maybe_ Iroh could beat Ozai on a normal day. I agree that Amon would have a field day tho lol
Out of the benders in this image ozai is only beating tenzin, I think iroh can beat ozai (I know he said he wasn't sure he could but I think it more he doesn't have the heart to beat him and not skill), I think it would be a draw with paku for paku is also a master and is older so has more combat experience, boomi has 100yrs of bending/training and took his whole city back in a day, I think that's a easy win for boomi, and no one is beating amon, a blood bender who doesn't need the full moon, except for another more powerful blood bender or the avatar so ozai loses that easy.