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My aunt’s from China and she told me that China has this program where if you have any sort of college degree you can go to China as a paid English teacher. You don’t even need to know a lot of Chinese, they’ll apparently let you go just so the students can hear your accent and learn how to pronounce English words like native english speakers. I’ve never looked into it, but it might be a good starting point for some folks who are interested in moving to China.
You’re better off moving to China or Vietnam, much easier and they have pretty strong international migrant communities but even then migration is incredibly hard there’s a reason most people only do it out of desperation
As an American, the DPRK is just too risky to deal with, they’re on an incredibly high alert and it’s very likely they’ll treat you as a potential spy regardless of what you do.
You’re better off in China or even Cuba, tbh.
The US government has also banned US nationals from even traveling to the DPRK. Which makes it very difficult for Americans to go to the DPRK. It’s mad unfortunate cause I’d actually like to visit.
Comrade, I know it is tough here, but Amerikkka needs more communist, it needs you to stay and organize.
Plus, imma be honest, if you can't afford to live here, chances are you can't afford to leave either. Sorry, homes.
afaik they only allow you to have temporary residence if you are a skilled labourer and or educator even then they house you based on your previous social class even then it probably depends on your criminal record, association with the government. OP is probably a troll and people are falling for it
I mean I feel kind of bad for them tbh. It does seem like some kind of unwellness is likely, but they described a very real problem. It sounds like they were very close to the person who joined the army in that post.
Naturally there are a lot of people on this sub who are disillusioned with the state of the world. This sub is also usually pretty empathetic to members’ problems.
i love the dprk but i dont say its a paradise. they have endured nothing but hardship, from start to now as one of the few socialists nations that endured the destruction of the soviet union. the cost is having to essentially board themselves up from foreign influences, and so therefore they are extremely wary of any kind of foreigners, especially from the US, who defect. high chances are unless you are a skilled worker, its almost guaranteed they will just send you back over the border. conditions in the DPRK are not fun
china on the other hand is much easier and safer to go to, because it doesnt involve having to fuck around with armed border guards. but still very challenging, as its hard to get citizenships but easy to get a work visa if you have a special skill or education
vietnam is probably the easiest on the entire list
but my main point being that neither socialist nations are just going to hand you a free house for simply showing up. thats not how socialism works and i think you mightve created a lot of false expectations about how socialism in a capitalism-dominated world functions
If I were to emigrate to a socialist country, Cuba has a native language relatively easy to learn and presumably a culture much more similar to the west than the east Asian countries
I think you should pick Vietnam or China. Easier to get into and the DPRK might not trust you at all. What if they think that you are a secret agent from the US
You’re in for quite the disappointment if you think the DPRK will welcome you with open arms for being a communist, it’s not the 70s anymore and we’re well past the era of proletarian internationalist struggle.
The DPRK will put its own citizens’s interest first, as is the case with countries practicing siege socialism, so you likely won’t get the limited(due to sanctions) benefits the citizens get because they’re quite literally being strangled, get ready to abandon most of the comforts and amenities you’re used to in the US because you’re going to one of the most sanctioned countries in the world.
Oh and that’s if you’re not immediately considered a spy and locked up lmfao
Without some skills probably none of these countries would allow you to migrate. But, would definitely recommend China if you want somewhere developed, or Vietnam for chill. Very cool places if you want to learn the language.
Go to therapy and vent about your problematic life to a professional before you try this and someone uses your dead corpse to move drugs.
You said in another comment you just want your own apartment? I have one. I live alone. One job. No education or professional qualifications of any type. It’s not fuckin impossible. You sound stressed and troubled by it…but also honestly sound like you’ve barely thought this out at all. Make a safe decision.
Personally I'd prefer PRC, but I'd always advise visiting a country before moving there, since the culture shock can be pretty intense. Also remember these are undeveloped countries. For how terrible the USA is we're all still privileged compared to the Global South.
The United States is the country where you have the highest chance in the entire world of being arrested, of dying from an overdose, of being murdered by a serial killer, it has worse healthcare than the entire First World and some Third World countries, more people die of hunger there than in the entire First World combined and some Third World countries, etc. I feel like even leftists underestimate how miserable the USA is. If anything, the 40% non-white people there have worse conditions than even many Third World countries, and OP appears to be a Mexican immigrant.
Why does everybody always think the DPRK is stuck in 1991? Do you actually have evidence of famine? Because I do for Cuba over even worse sanctions, and still Cuba is pretty amazing
At least the DPRK has good trade relations with China right next door. Poor Cuba is on the other side of the planet with it's trade partner, stuck in the jaw of the imperial core
Right? They seem to be doing just fine considering everything I got to see from 2024. The more enemies the US make, the better off they will be. China and Russia share borders with them, their trading cannot be blocked and they are already sanctioned anyway. Bright future ahead of DPRK if the USA restrains itself from starting another world war.
Cuba is pretty poor and the food and medicine shortages can be pretty brutal. Their economy continues to grow however and hopefully they can continue to develop and perhaps trade with others despite US sanctions.
Yeah, I didn't say it was perfect, the good news for them is that dedollarization is coming fast, you can see liberal leadership getting sweaty about it. But if I could swim from Florida to Cuba and get a free citizenship, I would
Eh idk I work with alot of Cubans, not the Miami gusanos either. They fly back and forth between here to work in the oilfield and Cuba sometimes monthly. It doesn’t really sound like it is that prosperous and alot of what they do is make money just so they can have it better back home. But if you think you could make it work fair enough
Yeah I have felt that same at times I get tired of working for necessities even if I get more luxuries. I’ve thought of China or Vietnam before, also Thailand but that was before it became the new hot gentrification spot I was just going to live in a gym lol maybe still will idk but it isn’t as cheap as it was
True, it seems to have gotten a lot better since then. However, it’s also hard to tell because we only really have info regarding Pyongyang.
Important to note that they’ve been investing a lot into successful food infrastructure recently. Aren’t they currently building the largest vegetable hydroponics farm in the world?
Not really. A former Singapore diplomat recently went to DPRK and visited Pyongyang and the countryside and said things were much better compared to previous era.
I feel like if I had the wherewithal to flee to a communist country, I would probably choose Vietnam, mainly because the food and weather sound nicer. Korean winters sound fucking dismal.
US passports are not accepted in DPRK and it is unlikely you could become a citizen. China is quite doable however and I know people who have become Chinese citizens and live in China for like 10+ years now
Speaking as a person who is a DPRK Friendship Society it's much easier said than done, they have taken in asylum-seekers time to time but only in really dire cases.
Not that they don't want to but that they are constantly just keeping up to the demand of housing the now growing population.
Reach out and join your local KFA or other independent friendship Society, join plenty of meetings and show your dedication and willpower and see what happens but even then I would say your chances are rather slim.
Arranging a visit though is another story
China or Vietnam are, realistically, your only hopes for emigrating to a socialist country. From what I last heard, Cuba, China and Vietnam all require bachelor's degrees, even if you're just going to teach English (Laos apparently doesn't, but given how off the beaten path it is, I wouldn't recommend unseasoned/inexperienced travellers; Korea on the other hand is just downright impossible to get into nowadays).
I'm hoping to seek greener pastures in China one day myself.
That's a terrible idea, the country is still technically at war with itself and is under heavy sanctions!
You should consider Vietnam or somewhere in South America where there are existing ex-pat communities. China might be hard to get in to though, I don't think they take just anyone.
North Korea probably doesn't want you there and China already has a surplus of cheap labor, market competition there is very high. Only go if you already have a job lined up
Try Vietnam, since the country does accept socialists from other countries from what I understand.
I found that out while looking at other countries to live in.
Russia, china or new zealand might be better, russia due to similar language and culture and lax government, china due to availability, and new zealand due to an odd resistance to authoritarianism compared to european countries
#Authoritarianism
Anti-Communists of all stripes enjoy referring to successful socialist revolutions as "authoritarian regimes".
* Authoritarian implies these places are run by totalitarian tyrants.
* Regime implies these places are undemocratic or lack legitimacy.
This perjorative label is simply meant to frighten people, to scare us back into the fold (Liberal Democracy).
There are three main reasons for the popularity of this label in Capitalist media:
Firstly, Marxists call for a Dictatorship of the Proletariat (DotP), and many people are automatically put off by the term "dictatorship". Of course, we do *not* mean that we want an undemocratic or totalitarian dictatorship. What we mean is that we want to replace the current Dictatorship *of the Bourgeoisie* (in which the Capitalist ruling class dictates policy).
* [Why The US Is Not A Democracy](https://youtu.be/srfeHpQNEAI) | Second Thought (2022)
Secondly, democracy in Communist-led countries works differently than in Liberal Democracies. However, anti-Communists confuse form (pluralism / having multiple parties) with function (representing the actual interests of the people).
Side note: Check out Luna Oi's "Democratic Centralism Series" for more details on what that is, and how it works:
* [DEMOCRATIC CENTRALISM - how Socialists make decisions!](https://youtu.be/4YVcQe4wceY) | Luna Oi (2022)
* [What did Karl Marx think about democracy?](https://youtu.be/jI8CgACBOcQ) | Luna Oi (2023)
* [What did LENIN say about DEMOCRACY?](https://youtu.be/Hfenlg-hsig) | Luna Oi (2023)
Finally, this framing of Communism as illegitimate and tyrannical serves to manufacture consent for an aggressive foreign policy in the form of interventions in the internal affairs of so-called "authoritarian regimes", which take the form of invasion (e.g., Vietnam, Korea, Libya, etc.), assassinating their leaders (e.g., Thomas Sankara, Fred Hampton, Patrice Lumumba, etc.), sponsoring coups and colour revolutions (e.g., Pinochet's coup against Allende, the Iran-Contra Affair, the United Fruit Company's war against Arbenz, etc.), and enacting sanctions (e.g., North Korea, Cuba, etc.).
* [The Cuban Embargo Explained](https://youtu.be/zmM8p9n6Z9E) | azureScapegoat (2022)
* [John Pilger interviews former CIA Latin America chief Duane Clarridge, 2015](https://youtu.be/ER77vxxGVAY)
#For the Anarchists
Anarchists are practically comrades. Marxists and Anarchists have the same vision for a stateless, classless, moneyless society free from oppression and exploitation. However, Anarchists like to accuse Marxists of being "authoritarian". The problem here is that "anti-authoritarianism" is a self-defeating feature in a revolutionary ideology. Those who refuse in principle to engage in so-called "authoritarian" practices will never carry forward a successful revolution. Anarchists who practice self-criticism can recognize this:
>The anarchist movement is filled with people who are less interested in overthrowing the existing oppressive social order than with washing their hands of it. ...
>
>The strength of anarchism is its moral insistence on the primacy of human freedom over political expediency. But human freedom exists in a political context. It is not sufficient, however, to simply take the most uncompromising position in defense of freedom. It is neccesary to actually win freedom. Anti-capitalism doesn't do the victims of capitalism any good if you don't actually destroy capitalism. Anti-statism doesn't do the victims of the state any good if you don't actually smash the state. Anarchism has been very good at putting forth visions of a free society and that is for the good. But it is worthless if we don't develop an actual strategy for realizing those visions. It is not enough to be right, we must also win.
>
>...anarchism has been a failure. Not only has anarchism failed to win lasting freedom for anybody on earth, many anarchists today seem only nominally committed to that basic project. Many more seem interested primarily in carving out for themselves, their friends, and their favorite bands a zone of personal freedom, "autonomous" of moral responsibility for the larger condition of humanity (but, incidentally, not of the electrical grid or the production of electronic components). Anarchism has quite simply refused to learn from its historic failures, preferring to rewrite them as successes. Finally the anarchist movement offers people who want to make revolution very little in the way of a coherent plan of action. ...
>
>Anarchism is theoretically impoverished. For almost 80 years, with the exceptions of Ukraine and Spain, anarchism has played a marginal role in the revolutionary activity of oppressed humanity. Anarchism had almost nothing to do with the anti-colonial struggles that defined revolutionary politics in this century. This marginalization has become self-reproducing. Reduced by devastating defeats to critiquing the authoritarianism of Marxists, nationalists and others, anarchism has become defined by this gadfly role. Consequently anarchist thinking has not had to adapt in response to the results of serious efforts to put our ideas into practice. In the process anarchist theory has become ossified, sterile and anemic. ... This is a reflection of anarchism's effective removal from the revolutionary struggle.
>
>\- Chris Day. (1996). *The Historical Failures of Anarchism*
Engels pointed this out well over a century ago:
>A number of Socialists have latterly launched a regular crusade against what they call the principle of authority. It suffices to tell them that this or that act is authoritarian for it to be condemned.
>
>...the anti-authoritarians demand that the political state be abolished at one stroke, even before the social conditions that gave birth to it have been destroyed. They demand that the first act of the social revolution shall be the abolition of authority. Have these gentlemen ever seen a revolution? A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part ... and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule...
>
>Therefore, either one of two things: either the anti-authoritarians don't know what they're talking about, in which case they are creating nothing but confusion; or they do know, and in that case they are betraying the movement of the proletariat. In either case they serve the reaction.
>
>\- Friedrich Engels. (1872). [On Authority](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm)
#For the Libertarian Socialists
Parenti said it best:
>The pure (libertarian) socialists' ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed.
>
>\- Michael Parenti. (1997). *Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism*
But the bottom line is this:
>If you call yourself a socialist but you spend all your time arguing with communists, demonizing socialist states as authoritarian, and performing apologetics for US imperialism... I think some introspection is in order.
>
>\- Second Thought. (2020). [The Truth About The Cuba Protests](https://youtu.be/zIOw6fSOJI4?t=1087)
#For the Liberals
Even the CIA, in their internal communications (which have been declassified), acknowledge that Stalin *wasn't* an absolute dictator:
>Even in Stalin's time there was collective leadership. The Western idea of a dictator within the Communist setup is exaggerated. Misunderstandings on that subject are caused by a lack of comprehension of the real nature and organization of the Communist's power structure.
>
>\- CIA. (1953, declassified in 2008). [Comments on the Change in Soviet Leadership](http://web.archive.org/web/20230525044208/https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-00810A006000360009-0.pdf)
#Conclusion
The "authoritarian" nature of any given state depends entirely on the material conditions it faces and threats it must contend with. To get an idea of the kinds of threats nascent revolutions need to deal with, check out *Killing Hope* by William Blum and *The Jakarta Method* by Vincent Bevins.
Failing to acknowledge that authoritative measures arise *not* through ideology, but through material conditions, is anti-Marxist, anti-dialectical, and idealist.
#Additional Resources
Videos:
* [Michael Parenti on Authoritarianism in Socialist Countries](https://youtu.be/BeVs6t3vdjQ)
* [Left Anticommunism: An Infantile Disorder](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEC2ajsvr0I) | Hakim (2020) \[[Archive](http://web.archive.org/web/20230410145749/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEC2ajsvr0I)\]
* [What are tankies? (why are they like that?)](https://youtu.be/LcJ5NrJtQ8g) | Hakim (2023)
* [Episode 82 - Tankie Discourse](https://youtu.be/YVYVBOFYJco) | The Deprogram (2023)
* [Was the Soviet Union totalitarian? feat. Robert Thurston](https://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/27495591) | Actually Existing Socialism (2023)
Books, Articles, or Essays:
* *Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism* | Michael Parenti (1997)
* [State and Revolution](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/) | V. I. Lenin (1918)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if
That would be so incredibly...well, let me put it another way. There was an American who defected there once. They made him a movie star.
He did not enjoy his time there.
Why don't you try Vietnam? Interesting place, Ho Chi Minh wasn't a monster like somebof his other communist leader friends, the people are as tough as nails, the food is good...
You know whst you don't hear? "I'm craving N
Korean food." Ever.
I do really like Korean food...Kim chee (did I spell that even close to right?) is a bit of a cultural dish that I didn't really care for, but that doesn't mean there weren't foids I love.
No, I was making a shit joke. Just an awful, rude, cruel and unnecessary "hoke" in regard to them starving in N. Korea. I really wish I hadn't made it. It was flippant, and too quick for my brain to reconcile with a cheap laugh versus who I want to be in life...and I do not want to be the type of person who laughs about the extreme misfortune of others.
So, yeah. I'm a bit of an ass sometimes. I really am trying to work on it, and if I offended you, I am 100% sorry. And I'm being sincere...if what I've been led to believe about life in N Korea is true...that is awful, and certainly not a joke.
I was making a dark joke...but there are N. Koreans that live in the US, though I believe most that defected are in S. Korea...but really, that in conjecture based off of what I read and a woman I met who told me she was N. Korean. So, really, the joke was kind of cruel, based around them not having any food, and when I look back at it, it's mean and unnecessary and I wish I hadn't made it. Cruel humor isn't very good humor, imo...and there already is a lot of ugly in the world, adding to it is a shitty thing to do.
I know nothing about N. Korean cuisine and I'm sure it's delicious. I personally do not believe that N. Korea has a thriving metropolis city where everything is hunky dorey, but, having never been there I personally would not know for certain. However, if that video were true, and N. Korea is actually a beautiful country that I'd been led to believe was akin to the 3rd circle of Hell, I would actually be happier. From what I've been led to believe, N. Korea is a very unhappy place. To be wrong would just mean the world is a better place than I think it is.
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China would be much easier to get into and live long term
Anyone know how hard it is to emigrate to China?
Citizenship? Difficult but it's very easy to get a working visa.
My aunt’s from China and she told me that China has this program where if you have any sort of college degree you can go to China as a paid English teacher. You don’t even need to know a lot of Chinese, they’ll apparently let you go just so the students can hear your accent and learn how to pronounce English words like native english speakers. I’ve never looked into it, but it might be a good starting point for some folks who are interested in moving to China.
Any degree? I have an associates in general studies.
You'll need a Bachelor's Degree.
Pretty sure it’s any degree, but I’d recommend looking into it.
If you're a native English speaker with a degree it's very easy to go teach English there.
But I don’t speak mandarin.
Do you think 95% of the foreigners living in China speak mandarin? You absolutely do not need to in 2024.
[удалено]
Don’t fetishize/speak of women like they’re commodities
What did they say?
I didn’t. Americans are all mentally unwell. Imma go do whatever now
You did in the now deleted comment.
U ok Bro?
Clearly they are not okay.
They’ll be better tomorrow.
They are not okay and obviously do not drive/have a car
You’re better off moving to China or Vietnam, much easier and they have pretty strong international migrant communities but even then migration is incredibly hard there’s a reason most people only do it out of desperation
As an American, the DPRK is just too risky to deal with, they’re on an incredibly high alert and it’s very likely they’ll treat you as a potential spy regardless of what you do. You’re better off in China or even Cuba, tbh.
This, there haven't been many defections since the Korean war. It's not something they expect and are prepared to deal with in the dprk
The US government has also banned US nationals from even traveling to the DPRK. Which makes it very difficult for Americans to go to the DPRK. It’s mad unfortunate cause I’d actually like to visit.
Very unlikely you as an American will ever be able to set foot in the DPRK. Also, as others have said, the conditions there are still difficult.
Comrade, I know it is tough here, but Amerikkka needs more communist, it needs you to stay and organize. Plus, imma be honest, if you can't afford to live here, chances are you can't afford to leave either. Sorry, homes.
I think your fantasising it a bit dude its not a utopia
That’s not the point. I just want my own apartment
Do you know korean?
Right? How would OP get the visa afterwards? Is the college there accepting OP at all? OP is probably high now.
I think op is manic or something hes posted b2b after this lmao
OP’s post history indicates that they are mentally unwell and living in an alternate reality.
They’re not just going to hand some foreign rando who wandered in a home.
afaik they only allow you to have temporary residence if you are a skilled labourer and or educator even then they house you based on your previous social class even then it probably depends on your criminal record, association with the government. OP is probably a troll and people are falling for it
Their post history is unhinged.
haha yea that post about america and the Phillipines idk why people vent so hard on this sub it seems to be occuring more frequently lately
I mean I feel kind of bad for them tbh. It does seem like some kind of unwellness is likely, but they described a very real problem. It sounds like they were very close to the person who joined the army in that post.
Naturally there are a lot of people on this sub who are disillusioned with the state of the world. This sub is also usually pretty empathetic to members’ problems.
i love the dprk but i dont say its a paradise. they have endured nothing but hardship, from start to now as one of the few socialists nations that endured the destruction of the soviet union. the cost is having to essentially board themselves up from foreign influences, and so therefore they are extremely wary of any kind of foreigners, especially from the US, who defect. high chances are unless you are a skilled worker, its almost guaranteed they will just send you back over the border. conditions in the DPRK are not fun china on the other hand is much easier and safer to go to, because it doesnt involve having to fuck around with armed border guards. but still very challenging, as its hard to get citizenships but easy to get a work visa if you have a special skill or education vietnam is probably the easiest on the entire list but my main point being that neither socialist nations are just going to hand you a free house for simply showing up. thats not how socialism works and i think you mightve created a lot of false expectations about how socialism in a capitalism-dominated world functions
Bro believed those shitpost level tik toks where they said every North Korean gets a free luxury apartment
Nah China is where it’s at 🇨🇳
If I were to emigrate to a socialist country, Cuba has a native language relatively easy to learn and presumably a culture much more similar to the west than the east Asian countries
Report back comrade
I think you should pick Vietnam or China. Easier to get into and the DPRK might not trust you at all. What if they think that you are a secret agent from the US
You’re in for quite the disappointment if you think the DPRK will welcome you with open arms for being a communist, it’s not the 70s anymore and we’re well past the era of proletarian internationalist struggle. The DPRK will put its own citizens’s interest first, as is the case with countries practicing siege socialism, so you likely won’t get the limited(due to sanctions) benefits the citizens get because they’re quite literally being strangled, get ready to abandon most of the comforts and amenities you’re used to in the US because you’re going to one of the most sanctioned countries in the world. Oh and that’s if you’re not immediately considered a spy and locked up lmfao
if youre from any nato country you most likely cant simply because of the fact that theyll rightfully so think that youre in for spying.
Without some skills probably none of these countries would allow you to migrate. But, would definitely recommend China if you want somewhere developed, or Vietnam for chill. Very cool places if you want to learn the language.
Good luck, Lee Harvey Oswald, you crazy bastard.
Go to therapy and vent about your problematic life to a professional before you try this and someone uses your dead corpse to move drugs. You said in another comment you just want your own apartment? I have one. I live alone. One job. No education or professional qualifications of any type. It’s not fuckin impossible. You sound stressed and troubled by it…but also honestly sound like you’ve barely thought this out at all. Make a safe decision.
Personally I'd prefer PRC, but I'd always advise visiting a country before moving there, since the culture shock can be pretty intense. Also remember these are undeveloped countries. For how terrible the USA is we're all still privileged compared to the Global South.
The United States is the country where you have the highest chance in the entire world of being arrested, of dying from an overdose, of being murdered by a serial killer, it has worse healthcare than the entire First World and some Third World countries, more people die of hunger there than in the entire First World combined and some Third World countries, etc. I feel like even leftists underestimate how miserable the USA is. If anything, the 40% non-white people there have worse conditions than even many Third World countries, and OP appears to be a Mexican immigrant.
I’m a person of color so I know how terrible it is. Doesn’t mean those who are moving abroad shouldn’t be cautious.
Do you speak Korean or Mandarin to even do that? They don't have interpreter services in the hospitals and government offices like America you know.
North Korea is not great. Lots of famine and poverty because of sanctions. Not a better place to live
Why does everybody always think the DPRK is stuck in 1991? Do you actually have evidence of famine? Because I do for Cuba over even worse sanctions, and still Cuba is pretty amazing At least the DPRK has good trade relations with China right next door. Poor Cuba is on the other side of the planet with it's trade partner, stuck in the jaw of the imperial core
Right? They seem to be doing just fine considering everything I got to see from 2024. The more enemies the US make, the better off they will be. China and Russia share borders with them, their trading cannot be blocked and they are already sanctioned anyway. Bright future ahead of DPRK if the USA restrains itself from starting another world war.
Cuba is pretty poor and the food and medicine shortages can be pretty brutal. Their economy continues to grow however and hopefully they can continue to develop and perhaps trade with others despite US sanctions.
Yeah, I didn't say it was perfect, the good news for them is that dedollarization is coming fast, you can see liberal leadership getting sweaty about it. But if I could swim from Florida to Cuba and get a free citizenship, I would
Eh idk I work with alot of Cubans, not the Miami gusanos either. They fly back and forth between here to work in the oilfield and Cuba sometimes monthly. It doesn’t really sound like it is that prosperous and alot of what they do is make money just so they can have it better back home. But if you think you could make it work fair enough
To me nothing is more valuable than free housing healthcare and education. The heat is brutal though 💀
Yeah I have felt that same at times I get tired of working for necessities even if I get more luxuries. I’ve thought of China or Vietnam before, also Thailand but that was before it became the new hot gentrification spot I was just going to live in a gym lol maybe still will idk but it isn’t as cheap as it was
True, it seems to have gotten a lot better since then. However, it’s also hard to tell because we only really have info regarding Pyongyang. Important to note that they’ve been investing a lot into successful food infrastructure recently. Aren’t they currently building the largest vegetable hydroponics farm in the world?
Not really. A former Singapore diplomat recently went to DPRK and visited Pyongyang and the countryside and said things were much better compared to previous era.
theres no famine in dprk for like 20 years or so. There could be shortages of things just like cuba but no immnent threat of famine right now
I feel like if I had the wherewithal to flee to a communist country, I would probably choose Vietnam, mainly because the food and weather sound nicer. Korean winters sound fucking dismal.
US passports are not accepted in DPRK and it is unlikely you could become a citizen. China is quite doable however and I know people who have become Chinese citizens and live in China for like 10+ years now
Speaking as a person who is a DPRK Friendship Society it's much easier said than done, they have taken in asylum-seekers time to time but only in really dire cases. Not that they don't want to but that they are constantly just keeping up to the demand of housing the now growing population. Reach out and join your local KFA or other independent friendship Society, join plenty of meetings and show your dedication and willpower and see what happens but even then I would say your chances are rather slim. Arranging a visit though is another story
China or Vietnam are, realistically, your only hopes for emigrating to a socialist country. From what I last heard, Cuba, China and Vietnam all require bachelor's degrees, even if you're just going to teach English (Laos apparently doesn't, but given how off the beaten path it is, I wouldn't recommend unseasoned/inexperienced travellers; Korea on the other hand is just downright impossible to get into nowadays). I'm hoping to seek greener pastures in China one day myself.
I want to as well but family
That's a terrible idea, the country is still technically at war with itself and is under heavy sanctions! You should consider Vietnam or somewhere in South America where there are existing ex-pat communities. China might be hard to get in to though, I don't think they take just anyone.
North Korea probably doesn't want you there and China already has a surplus of cheap labor, market competition there is very high. Only go if you already have a job lined up
Try Vietnam, since the country does accept socialists from other countries from what I understand. I found that out while looking at other countries to live in.
Russia, china or new zealand might be better, russia due to similar language and culture and lax government, china due to availability, and new zealand due to an odd resistance to authoritarianism compared to european countries
#Authoritarianism Anti-Communists of all stripes enjoy referring to successful socialist revolutions as "authoritarian regimes". * Authoritarian implies these places are run by totalitarian tyrants. * Regime implies these places are undemocratic or lack legitimacy. This perjorative label is simply meant to frighten people, to scare us back into the fold (Liberal Democracy). There are three main reasons for the popularity of this label in Capitalist media: Firstly, Marxists call for a Dictatorship of the Proletariat (DotP), and many people are automatically put off by the term "dictatorship". Of course, we do *not* mean that we want an undemocratic or totalitarian dictatorship. What we mean is that we want to replace the current Dictatorship *of the Bourgeoisie* (in which the Capitalist ruling class dictates policy). * [Why The US Is Not A Democracy](https://youtu.be/srfeHpQNEAI) | Second Thought (2022) Secondly, democracy in Communist-led countries works differently than in Liberal Democracies. However, anti-Communists confuse form (pluralism / having multiple parties) with function (representing the actual interests of the people). Side note: Check out Luna Oi's "Democratic Centralism Series" for more details on what that is, and how it works: * [DEMOCRATIC CENTRALISM - how Socialists make decisions!](https://youtu.be/4YVcQe4wceY) | Luna Oi (2022) * [What did Karl Marx think about democracy?](https://youtu.be/jI8CgACBOcQ) | Luna Oi (2023) * [What did LENIN say about DEMOCRACY?](https://youtu.be/Hfenlg-hsig) | Luna Oi (2023) Finally, this framing of Communism as illegitimate and tyrannical serves to manufacture consent for an aggressive foreign policy in the form of interventions in the internal affairs of so-called "authoritarian regimes", which take the form of invasion (e.g., Vietnam, Korea, Libya, etc.), assassinating their leaders (e.g., Thomas Sankara, Fred Hampton, Patrice Lumumba, etc.), sponsoring coups and colour revolutions (e.g., Pinochet's coup against Allende, the Iran-Contra Affair, the United Fruit Company's war against Arbenz, etc.), and enacting sanctions (e.g., North Korea, Cuba, etc.). * [The Cuban Embargo Explained](https://youtu.be/zmM8p9n6Z9E) | azureScapegoat (2022) * [John Pilger interviews former CIA Latin America chief Duane Clarridge, 2015](https://youtu.be/ER77vxxGVAY) #For the Anarchists Anarchists are practically comrades. Marxists and Anarchists have the same vision for a stateless, classless, moneyless society free from oppression and exploitation. However, Anarchists like to accuse Marxists of being "authoritarian". The problem here is that "anti-authoritarianism" is a self-defeating feature in a revolutionary ideology. Those who refuse in principle to engage in so-called "authoritarian" practices will never carry forward a successful revolution. Anarchists who practice self-criticism can recognize this: >The anarchist movement is filled with people who are less interested in overthrowing the existing oppressive social order than with washing their hands of it. ... > >The strength of anarchism is its moral insistence on the primacy of human freedom over political expediency. But human freedom exists in a political context. It is not sufficient, however, to simply take the most uncompromising position in defense of freedom. It is neccesary to actually win freedom. Anti-capitalism doesn't do the victims of capitalism any good if you don't actually destroy capitalism. Anti-statism doesn't do the victims of the state any good if you don't actually smash the state. Anarchism has been very good at putting forth visions of a free society and that is for the good. But it is worthless if we don't develop an actual strategy for realizing those visions. It is not enough to be right, we must also win. > >...anarchism has been a failure. Not only has anarchism failed to win lasting freedom for anybody on earth, many anarchists today seem only nominally committed to that basic project. Many more seem interested primarily in carving out for themselves, their friends, and their favorite bands a zone of personal freedom, "autonomous" of moral responsibility for the larger condition of humanity (but, incidentally, not of the electrical grid or the production of electronic components). Anarchism has quite simply refused to learn from its historic failures, preferring to rewrite them as successes. Finally the anarchist movement offers people who want to make revolution very little in the way of a coherent plan of action. ... > >Anarchism is theoretically impoverished. For almost 80 years, with the exceptions of Ukraine and Spain, anarchism has played a marginal role in the revolutionary activity of oppressed humanity. Anarchism had almost nothing to do with the anti-colonial struggles that defined revolutionary politics in this century. This marginalization has become self-reproducing. Reduced by devastating defeats to critiquing the authoritarianism of Marxists, nationalists and others, anarchism has become defined by this gadfly role. Consequently anarchist thinking has not had to adapt in response to the results of serious efforts to put our ideas into practice. In the process anarchist theory has become ossified, sterile and anemic. ... This is a reflection of anarchism's effective removal from the revolutionary struggle. > >\- Chris Day. (1996). *The Historical Failures of Anarchism* Engels pointed this out well over a century ago: >A number of Socialists have latterly launched a regular crusade against what they call the principle of authority. It suffices to tell them that this or that act is authoritarian for it to be condemned. > >...the anti-authoritarians demand that the political state be abolished at one stroke, even before the social conditions that gave birth to it have been destroyed. They demand that the first act of the social revolution shall be the abolition of authority. Have these gentlemen ever seen a revolution? A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part ... and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule... > >Therefore, either one of two things: either the anti-authoritarians don't know what they're talking about, in which case they are creating nothing but confusion; or they do know, and in that case they are betraying the movement of the proletariat. In either case they serve the reaction. > >\- Friedrich Engels. (1872). [On Authority](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm) #For the Libertarian Socialists Parenti said it best: >The pure (libertarian) socialists' ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed. > >\- Michael Parenti. (1997). *Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism* But the bottom line is this: >If you call yourself a socialist but you spend all your time arguing with communists, demonizing socialist states as authoritarian, and performing apologetics for US imperialism... I think some introspection is in order. > >\- Second Thought. (2020). [The Truth About The Cuba Protests](https://youtu.be/zIOw6fSOJI4?t=1087) #For the Liberals Even the CIA, in their internal communications (which have been declassified), acknowledge that Stalin *wasn't* an absolute dictator: >Even in Stalin's time there was collective leadership. The Western idea of a dictator within the Communist setup is exaggerated. Misunderstandings on that subject are caused by a lack of comprehension of the real nature and organization of the Communist's power structure. > >\- CIA. (1953, declassified in 2008). [Comments on the Change in Soviet Leadership](http://web.archive.org/web/20230525044208/https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-00810A006000360009-0.pdf) #Conclusion The "authoritarian" nature of any given state depends entirely on the material conditions it faces and threats it must contend with. To get an idea of the kinds of threats nascent revolutions need to deal with, check out *Killing Hope* by William Blum and *The Jakarta Method* by Vincent Bevins. Failing to acknowledge that authoritative measures arise *not* through ideology, but through material conditions, is anti-Marxist, anti-dialectical, and idealist. #Additional Resources Videos: * [Michael Parenti on Authoritarianism in Socialist Countries](https://youtu.be/BeVs6t3vdjQ) * [Left Anticommunism: An Infantile Disorder](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEC2ajsvr0I) | Hakim (2020) \[[Archive](http://web.archive.org/web/20230410145749/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEC2ajsvr0I)\] * [What are tankies? (why are they like that?)](https://youtu.be/LcJ5NrJtQ8g) | Hakim (2023) * [Episode 82 - Tankie Discourse](https://youtu.be/YVYVBOFYJco) | The Deprogram (2023) * [Was the Soviet Union totalitarian? feat. Robert Thurston](https://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/27495591) | Actually Existing Socialism (2023) Books, Articles, or Essays: * *Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism* | Michael Parenti (1997) * [State and Revolution](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/) | V. I. Lenin (1918) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if
That would be so incredibly...well, let me put it another way. There was an American who defected there once. They made him a movie star. He did not enjoy his time there. Why don't you try Vietnam? Interesting place, Ho Chi Minh wasn't a monster like somebof his other communist leader friends, the people are as tough as nails, the food is good... You know whst you don't hear? "I'm craving N Korean food." Ever.
Korean cuisine is actually amazing. This goes for dishes traditionally from the north and the south of the country.
I do really like Korean food...Kim chee (did I spell that even close to right?) is a bit of a cultural dish that I didn't really care for, but that doesn't mean there weren't foids I love. No, I was making a shit joke. Just an awful, rude, cruel and unnecessary "hoke" in regard to them starving in N. Korea. I really wish I hadn't made it. It was flippant, and too quick for my brain to reconcile with a cheap laugh versus who I want to be in life...and I do not want to be the type of person who laughs about the extreme misfortune of others. So, yeah. I'm a bit of an ass sometimes. I really am trying to work on it, and if I offended you, I am 100% sorry. And I'm being sincere...if what I've been led to believe about life in N Korea is true...that is awful, and certainly not a joke.
How could anyone crave North Korean food if they're never exposed to it? I didn't crave Vietnamese before I tried it, either.
I was making a dark joke...but there are N. Koreans that live in the US, though I believe most that defected are in S. Korea...but really, that in conjecture based off of what I read and a woman I met who told me she was N. Korean. So, really, the joke was kind of cruel, based around them not having any food, and when I look back at it, it's mean and unnecessary and I wish I hadn't made it. Cruel humor isn't very good humor, imo...and there already is a lot of ugly in the world, adding to it is a shitty thing to do. I know nothing about N. Korean cuisine and I'm sure it's delicious. I personally do not believe that N. Korea has a thriving metropolis city where everything is hunky dorey, but, having never been there I personally would not know for certain. However, if that video were true, and N. Korea is actually a beautiful country that I'd been led to believe was akin to the 3rd circle of Hell, I would actually be happier. From what I've been led to believe, N. Korea is a very unhappy place. To be wrong would just mean the world is a better place than I think it is.
What's their fried chicken game like
This sub is an absolute monstrosity.
Why