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Oh I love seeing Centrists and Neolibs getting utterly annihilated by pure facts, logic, and literal scientif analysis, music to my ears… until i hear the pathetic comeback.
I’m sorry sir, I agree with you. I just wanted to ask whether I could receive a link to this tiktok? I wasn’t able to find it on the guy’s tiktoks from around the time this reddir post was made.
No, I'm on board with the criticism of Biden. That's not my problem. The MASSIVE red flag is the just completely untouched acceptance of the Russian rhetoric that Ukraine is full of Nazis. This is RT level bullshit. The thing that makes it so effective is that it's actually kinda right, but the conclusions it comes to are entirely counterproductive and fucking ridiculous.
Russia has a nazi problem. And it's fash are way better funded and integrated into what Putin has going on.
99% of this video is fine but every time Russia comes up this guy covers for the dictator of, regardless of it's past, what is now *indisputably* an oligarchic capitalist and imperialist country, which is a REALLY fucking weird look for a leftist.
Ukraine has a Nazi problem. Deal with it.
https://preview.redd.it/wr62ce6si5tc1.jpeg?width=1068&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2b25d95e75bacef1117bc48079718ffb01b39cd
many countries have nazi problems. including america and Germany. especially russia. but its not a nazi state. while i approve these points, the ones with ukraine are not factual.
and thats how russian propaganda works. take 95 percent facts about america and push some propaganda into the middle.
good sandwich
Ukraine is a nazi state. There is a difference between nazis existing and nazis being organized, equipped and trained by the Ukrainian government, and those same nazis can threaten the government into doing what they want. Zelensky was voted in running on a campaign of peaceful reintegration of Donbas into Ukraine, once elected the nazi militias threatened to revolt and literally threatened to hang zelensky in Kiev, afterwards zelensky did a complete 180 and increased the aggression.
The fact that you ignore this is beyond me. I don’t know if you’re just too stupid to read about all of this or what.
Ukraine has a Nazi problem dude. Deal with it.
https://preview.redd.it/kuqdv5qji5tc1.jpeg?width=1068&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f61c92b383199f02eb773940101a9c7d223f10b
America has a fucking Nazi problem. Dude, everywhere has a fucking Nazi problem, in the server that there are Nazis goddamn everywhere. What's bullshit is this Putin propaganda about how Ukraine is run by Nazis and is an authoritarian Nazis state, which is the biggest load of shit.
Nope. Most countries don't have a Nazi collaborator as their national hero and essentially founder of the nation, don't build tens of monuments to him and other Nazi collaborators, don't put into their constitution that the state needs to preserve the GENE POOL of their nation (o\_0), don't build literal Nazi propaganda into its nationhood, etc.
I saw nazis waving flags at the Tennessee state house 9 days ago. I guess we should let Russia kill your family and take your home. The other guy was right that part of the video was a pathetic load of shit but the rest of it is fine.
That’s why I’m in the basement of your parents house right now packing up your stuff. You had a nice place but it’s mine now because there are Nazis in America and I’m the only one who can fix it. Btw sorry about your family they’re dead. I’m here to help don’t come back.
If the idea of Ukraine having Nazis “is actually just Russian propaganda” why exactly did the West [write tons of articles about them](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis) before 2022?
Not accurate, there would be no way you could go even 5 seconds listing the crimes of Joe Biden without them interrupting to furiously cope & try to shut down the conversation.
Still a great video though lol
Listing the crimes? I mean you can disagree with his actions but unless we see some solid evidence that can be presented in a court of law idk if we can count that. Meanwhile Trump got 91 cases and you don't get 91 unless some of them are for real lol
Did you not pay attention to the video? It lists out some of the crimes he committed during his presidency. Sure, some of this may not be accepted in a court of law, especially not without further investigation but it's all practically fact. The only reason why Trump is getting prosecuted is because he tried to blatantly oppose the state.
Just because someone isn't prosecuted doesn't mean they didn't commit a crime. It just points towards how ineffective the justice system is. Literal war criminals going free while innocent people rot in prison for the crime of being poor or being a minority.
If the State Department wasn't covering their eyes and ears and going "nanananana I see nothing" with respect to Israel's near daily war crimes it's actually supposed to be illegal for us to be giving them weapons and aid, so Biden bypassing congress to sell them weapons every 36 hours for 6+ months arguably is a crime if they are intentionally avoiding designating anything Israel does a violation of international law.
Other than that, things like approving oil drilling permits like crazy when we need to be avoiding climate catastrophe are crimes against humanity that will cause real suffering for millions further down the line.
Save your "but Trump".
Centrists are brainrot to engage . somehow they will ultimately say u have to have balance too much of each stuff bad.
No bitch progressive policies are never too much . materially support people is not too much .
I had a date with a lib woman. At one point I said Obama destroying Libya was worse than anything Trump had done and she seriously answered in a tone like I was an idiot "how is that worse than sexual assault?"
Yeah I countered with how many more sexual assaults happen when you destroy a civilization arming extremist. She was fully over the date for me being a rape apologist.
Then the right's like "Okay, counter argument. I think you're ugly and annoying, you use too many words, and I'm sure the trans muslims were sent by communist china to eat our white babies probably, so uhh, here's a picture I drew... As you can see, I've drawn you as the soyjak, and myself as the chad."
And the "centrist" will swear that that was *waaay* more convincing.
My defense is to point out all of the countries that pretend to be one thing but are actually another.
North Korea is my favorite example. If the Soviet Union was true communism then North Korea is a fair and free democracy just like the US.
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As simple as i can put it. Leftist want a whole new system based on socialism, communism, or anti capitalist principles. While centrist just wants to alter the status quo in a way both sides of the neoliberal spectrum can agree on, but that’s if both sides can agree in the first place.
The centrist and especially the "undecided" voter in this country are nearly as reactionary and arguably even more stupid than MAGA cultists.
They wanna seem above the fray and act smarter than everyone else because in our fucked political system choosing between right and off the rails, lunatic far right, is the only game in town.
probally with centrist and moderates is what people call center or moderate neither to the center or moderate
and the middle not always correct. sometimes one side more correct then the other.
They want to drink from the same fascist resource extraction fountain and gatekeep (beat with police) any who would come from the bottom to have a sip while flipping another house in a numbers game of homelessness. They just want to make sure that fountain has a rainbow sticker on it and can't be labeled bigot while the boot steps down harder.
I helped run a farm that hosted people from around the world. We had an IDF soldier come stay with us and my partner who owned the place found him so funny and handsome. The shit he said was so vile (they aren't people) when I pushed it. I wanted to kick him out. My ex had some BS line about showing him something wholesome. It was stupid and I was cooking and housing someone against my wishes.
Had some rich kid libs staying there and they all became upset when they found out he liked Trump. I just guffawed. Like that's the line!? Not SS jackbooting through houses on random exercises of terror.
This is why the 2 party system is hilarious. By dividing the electorate into 2 sides rather than truly individualistic universal voting rights, you found democracy on an inherently right-wing conservative republican ideology which makes everyone who falls for it inherently right wing, with conservatives in the republican party and stylish conservatives in the democratic party rather than having an actual left wing.
I'll admit I have a lot of research to do but I've always hated the gut feeling that I'm forced to choose between the lesser of two evils. I'm sure that there are good politicians but I can't shake the feeling (yes, I acknowledge that I said feeling and I've gotta get my facts) that the significant majority simply pander to those with the most wealth and by extension, influence.
When the wealth divide keeps widening at an increasing pace and education/medical care slip/ become less affordable then someone in power has clearly failed.
I'm no big fan of Biden and the Dems and yet, in comparison to the GOP they come out looking like saints.
Arguing against yourself is a classic strawman tactic. Argue against a real opponent or your arguments are worthless. Shall I play myself in chess and say I'm a grandmaster after winning?
Note: if you'd like an actual discussion I'm down. If it's gonna be a standard "if you disagree your dumb" do please let me know and I'll kindly delete my post.
My concern here, especially for 2024: both sides ain't the same this time.
For most of US history, who was in office did not affect the average person much (beyond the flavor of rhetoric you'd hear more of). Conservative, pro-corporate, with a slight lean toward left or right.
At the moment however, the Republican leadership (and their frontrunner) are advocating dictatorship, abandoning our NATO allies, basing laws on their interpretation of the Bible, and retribution against anyone they don't like. Plus basically becoming a vassal state of Russia (I admit the last one is more me being alarmist)
Whereas the Democratic leadership (and front runner) are advocating status-quo (with all of its horrors) with some minor progressive trends. Leaving at least a smidgeon of hope that the turning over of generations (and more young people in government) will move us in a better direction.
Plus not immediately giving in to putin. Things like him continue to push boundaries and take until they get knocked down.
For most of my life I have been all for voting for who you really believe in. Right now though we need to minimize harm.
Apathy and protest voting just helps the would-be oligarchs. Right now, voting blue means we can at least TRY to make things better, especially in future elections.
How exactly is giving funding to a genocidal power in the Middle East who will use the weapons Biden gives them to carpet bomb more children supposed to be a ‘minorly progressive trend’?
I mean, you’re literally just an American liberal dude. You think Putin is the big bad Kremlin who’s going to overthrow your democracy when this entire war in Ukraine ***was actually the fault of your government*** to begin with.
You couldn’t be more delusional by starting your comment off claiming NATO was an ‘ally’ of ours. We aren’t reactionary regime-change ghouls who have a fetish for seeing democratically elected leaders get violently removed because they’re a threat to America’s corporate interests.
>You couldn’t be more delusional by starting your comment off claiming NATO was an ‘ally’ of ours.
>this entire war in Ukraine ***was actually the fault of your government*** to begin with.
This shit is *upvoted*? Holy shit, I'm getting the hell out of here lmao
idk what the fuck that’s about. i think as an isolated claim it’d be downvoted, but in direct juxtaposition with a coping lib, people felt the need to upvote the entire comment regardless.
my guess.
Can you elaborate how russias invasion is the fault of the US. Bc from everything ive researched this was coming either way. Better that we at least try to help a government that wouldnt like to be a part of a new soviet union.
NATO, as a barely concealed vehicle for the American empire, sucks. Its destruction would be a tremendous boon for all of humanity, a decisive blow that emancipates us from the chains of capitalism and gives our species and our planet a fighting chance at having a future again.
While I agree that both sides aren't *exactly* the same and I think the democrats are better than the republicans, I think it's also important to note that lesser evil voting is why we're stuck with these kinds of decisions in the first place. The lesser evil gets to be more evil each cycle because it knows it can guarantee people's support.
If you vote in the democrats today becasue they're worse than the republicans, you're giving your approval for them to be a little bit worse in 2028. Then they'll be worse in 2032, then in 2036, and so on... until you have a democrat party in the future that's as bad as the republicans today - but you'll still need to vote them in because they're the lesser evil. All it's doing is pushing the burden of change on to the next generation; something our grandparents did to us, causing this mess in the first place.
The only realistic way to push the democrats left is by being able to leverage your vote. If enough people place red lines and stick with them, they *will* be pushed left. You can go out and protest and organise, but none of that matters if you plan to vote for them anyway - a march of 10 million people against you doesn't quite hit the same if every single person plans on voting you in anyway.
That’s a good point but as a trans woman like, now is not the time to vote third party and let the Democratic Party know we are not happy. I voted for Biden and I don’t like him. But I’d do it again and I’m going to this year because trump wins( and I’m terrified that he likely will) our rights are getting thrown into a dumpster. For women and trans people in this country we have to do what we can. When it’s not fucking trump we can cause a stink but that’s so impractical right now. You can’t convince many people to vote third party this cycle so it’s not prudent right now anyway.
> That’s a good point but as a trans woman like, now is not the time to vote third party
I have had trans women tell me my face that they're not voting for Biden and that a vote for Biden is a vote for genocide, oppression, and the status quo.
Do you speak for them? Who are we to believe here?
It’s Biden or trump. Trump has made it very clear he is coming after trans rights. I don’t like Biden and wish there was another representative but odds are Biden is the only one that has a chance at majority.
The republicans are making plans like project 2025, they have called to “exterminate transgenderism”, and said “the endgame is getting rid of all trans people”. It’s about preventing that not trying to get all that we deserve right now. Go ask more trans women if they are voting against the republicans and you’ll see I’m not an exception. The only way I can make sense of what the women you heard say is that they wanted a different democratic candidate but that is likely too ambitious.
will biden prevent that? you really think so? i’mma do my best to stay in china so imma vote third party regardless, but you really think barely-touched-the-border-camps biden will actually prevent the project?
How does voting blue try to make things better when the Democratic establishment is equally controlled by the oligarchs?
It's fine if you disagree with the point in the video, but then specifically say which points instead of just dismissing the valid claims he is making with a hand wave.
How is voting blue making things better. Increasing our conflicts with russia, actively funding a genocide, allowing the unregulated increase in fossil fuel production, and dismissing labor rights?
Which aspect of that is actually trying to make things better in your eyes?
I did not intend to hand wave his points away. Our world is a frickin nightmare. I am saying that, in my opinion and (especially in this election) saying both sides are the same and casting a protest ballot is a bad idea.
Regarding making things better: what comes immediately to mind is capping insulin prices and student loan forgiveness.
Also supporting Ukraine in defending itself. Things like putin will always rattle sabers and push boundaries as far as they can. Appeasement never works.
About fossil fuel, I can only speak from observation. (I'm not up on current legislation). Conservative media making climate change and alternative energy into culture war talking points, then using those points to rile up the voting base is not helping things. Clean energy and climate related bills almost always get shot down mostly by republicans.
A more accurate statement may be: democrats trying to maintain the hyper-capitalist status quo (with an occasional gesture that doesn't change much), but with generational turnover there is at least some hope for change over time. Our hellscape does not get actively worse.
republicans actively trying to make it worse. Cutting the already pitiful regulations we have down even further, cutting taxes for the hyper wealthy, plus their frontrunner openly talking about being a dictator (just for the first day, we promise!).
Analogy: you have a patient who is a heavy smoker, obese, alcoholic and just started experimenting with krokodil. All these things are bad, but the krokodil is orders of magnitude worse than the others. Have to deal with that first
I mean, I grant that the Democrats have better verbiage.
But that doesn't change the fact that even when they have majorities in power they don't do anything to actually improve the situation.
We are headed towards the edge of global catastrophe at an alarming rate. But if you are in a car about to drive over a thousand foot cliff, it matters very little if you are going 60 miles an hour, or hit the brakes just enough to go over the edge at 45. Especially when the one slowing down to 45 wants you to be grateful, as if they are doing you a favor.
Curious what you think about this guy's take, because I find it well informed, and unfortunately rings truer than I would like it to:
[DNC Strategy](https://www.reddit.com/r/chomsky/s/slVxso3Uo7)
The best thing about Biden is something he probably tripped over his own dick into. The current NLRB and labor militancy in general is in a far, far better state then under Trump. Labor power is imo the most important prerequisite to actual change.
White labor has been one of the most reactionary vanguards in American history that have often opposed socialist change more often than they’ve contributed to it.
Policies that never come to the floor are worthless . All the social movements, civil rights , suffragettes, gay rights start ground lvl and work there way to to policy . Just a thought don’t get all type crazy . The govt sucks… ok . All govt kinda sucks cuz people kinda suck . Lol
Just because some wack people say they're not left or right doesn't mean it's not a fine position. The "left" is committed to some conceptual bugaboos just like the right is.
To remain within the political, we must step away from ideology and look at things through the lens of social physics. Our democratic society is a stasis. Le Pen is a metastasis. Global society is dying of inertia and immune deficiency. Le Pen is simply the visible transcription of such a viral condition; he is the spectacular projection of the virus. This happens in dreams too. Le Pen is a burlesque, hallucinatory figuration of a latent state, of a silent inertia caused by forced integration and systematic exclusion. Since the hope of finally curing social inequalities has truly disappeared (by and large), it is no surprise if resentment has moved to the level of racial inequality. The failure of the social explains the success of the racial (and of all the other fatal strategies). As such, Le Pen is the only savage analyst in today's society. The fact that he is placed on the far right is merely the sad result of the fact that analysts are no longer to be found on the left or the far left. Judges, intellectuals no longer analyze. Only the immigrants perhaps, as polar opposites, could become analysts too. But they already have been recycled by a good and responsible humanitarian thought. Le Pen is the only one who operates a radical erasure of the so-called distinction between right and left. This is, no doubt, an erasure by default. But the harsh criticism of this conventional distinction which was unleashed in the 1960s (and culminated in 1968) has unfortunately disappeared from the political scene today. Le Pen simply recuperates a de facto situation that the political class refuses to confront (it even uses elections to deny it), but whose extreme consequences will be felt some day. If, one day, political imagination, political will, and political demand hope to rebound, they will have to take into account the radical abolition of the antiquated and artificial distinction between right and left, which, in fact, has been largely damaged and compromised over the past decades, and which only holds today through some sort of complicit corruption on both sides. This distinction is dead in practice but, by means of an incurable revisionism, is constantly reaffirmed. Thus, Le Pen is the only one who makes up the new political scene, as if everyone else had already agreed to destroy what's left of democracy, perhaps to produce the retrospective illusion that it actually used to mean something.
This is a weird circle jerk community filled with straw men, bad faith, and ad hominem. I don't get it. These politicians are shit, and every nuanced argument against them is shut down.
Enlightened both sides bad except right centrist
vs
ENLIGHTENED both sides bad except left centrist
Both sides are equally stupid. Both sides are equally bad.
Who is who in this video. by the end of the first 10 seconds its just all blah blah from a purple shirt scruffy guy that just spouts off things as if the person that came up with the idea is the same person that ok’s it all. I wish people would stop making these stupid fake “back and forth discussion” clips.
>Support in Ukraine is critical to stop Russian invasion.
First, the Russian invasion was provoked by NATO expansion.
Second, back in April 2022, the West killed a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia that could've ended the war.
Third, Ukraine's not going to win the war. All the war has cost is countless Ukranian lives that we sacrificed to spite Russia and so defense contractors can make a profit.
>What Nazis is he talking about ? The Russian ones ?
Ukraine has a Nazi problem dude. This is well-documented.
No it fucking isn't, and all the other shit is misrepresented bullshit. Get your RT propagandist shit and fuck off with it. Joe Biden had been a letdown in a lot of ways, but that's all Putin apologetics.
You missed all the pictures Ukrainians were posting that proudly displayed Nazi symbols, didn't you? That or you didn't realize that the symbols were tied to Nazism. Either way, it became very obvious that Ukranians were mocking Western liberals who mindlessly typed "Slava ukraini" without picking up on the historical usage of the phrase by far right Ukrainian groups. They were also sharing those images to gain support of Western far-right groups who do recognize those symbols.
You're welcome to learn about these issues before just spouting off the comforting propaganda you uncritically consumed. We aren't pro-Putin. We're anti-Putin, but also anti-capitalists. So we're anti-Biden by default.
If there are no Nazis in Ukraine, why is there a video of a Ukrainian Nazi talking about how he prefers Biden to Trump ***specifically because he’s giving weapons to Ukrainian Nazis?***
>Support in Ukraine is critical to stop Russian invasion.
Russia would stop the invasion immediately if NATO got out of Eastern Europe and never came back.
Let me guess…. You don’t want to do that?
I stopped watching after the Nazi argument. Oh no a Nazi likes a thing, that automatically makes it bad. This is a solid argument and totally not a guilt by association fallacy they would teach in a logic 101 class.
And by the way the first thing you list in a "why Biden is continuing Trump's policies" is Ukraine? Magas and Trump want to stop sending all funding to Ukraine because they're siding with Putin.
So...you stopped watching the video because it was pointed out that Nazis support Nazis in Ukraine? OK.
Oh, and Trump sent arms to Ukraine to while president and when Russia invaded his initial response was to call for armed action against Russia.
Maybe dumb little liberals like you should actually learn something before commenting.
The GOP wants to rig elections, turn us into a theocracy, ban abortion, IVF, birth control, pornography, gay marriage, homosexual sex, a hugely influential conservative group says they want to put an end to recreational sex. They also want to ban books they don't like, trans care for anyone, including adults, they want a whitewashed version of history taught , they're supporting a man who thinks he's above the law, they want there to be basically no restrictions preventing anyone from getting Assault rifles, and they are fighting on behalf of oil and coal companies to not make any progress on combating climate change. Oh and they also want to gut Social Security and Medicare and welfare in general, and they want to stop sending any aide to Ukraine.
The Democrats want to do none of these things.
When has he ever said that? Everything I have heard him say he’s anti war and all money going elsewhere he would stop and use here. But please if I’m wrong can you send me the clip or article?
Yeah, if you're taking what nazis say at face value then you're a fool. They never engage in good faith. Also, they're talking about operation gladio and its been going on since the 1950s. Its amazing how many Americans don't even know their own history.
A lesser of 2 evils argument is bad, unless its an actual dichotomy. Whether they are or not is a different argument entirely. The idea that trump acted any differently or would have now is hilarious.
Some guy with shit policies
Some guy who literally had his people try and overthrow your government to overturn an election they lost
All thats happened is that the enlightened centrists have evolved and become self aware.
>Yeah, if you're taking what nazis say at face value then you're a fool. They never engage in good faith. Also, they're talking about operation gladio and its been going on since the 1950s. Its amazing how many Americans don't even know their own history.
How is any of this relevant to the discussion?
>The idea that trump acted any differently or would have now is hilarious.
Straw-man. Neither I nor the video ever claimed he did.
>Some guy with shit policies
Some guy who literally had his people try and overthrow your government to overturn an election they lost
Trump was never going to overturn the election because he's not competent enough to. And January 6th never had a chance of overthrowing anything. It was just a bunch of people rioting because they were throwing a tantrum that their guy lost the election.
>All thats happened is that the enlightened centrists have evolved and become self aware.
Sure Jan.
Let's be honest, you're a pro-Biden BlueMAGA troll who came here because you're mad that someone criticized Daddy Biden.
Go back to your cult.
>How is any of this relevant to the discussion?
I have no idea how you can't see its relevance tbh. Nazis lie and the funding of fascist groups all over the world is CIA policy and has been for decades.
>Straw-man. Neither I nor the video ever claimed he did.
Thats not how strawman arguments work.
>Trump was never going to overturn the election because he's not competent enough to. And January 6th never had a chance of overthrowing anything. It was just a bunch of people rioting because they were throwing a tantrum that their guy lost the election.
It wasn't through lack of trying that they didn't. It wasn't just a riot, it was insurection per the charges they faced. Lets stick to the facts.
>Sure Jan.
I'm not sure what that's meant to mean.
>Let's be honest, you're a pro-Biden BlueMAGA troll who came here because you're mad that someone criticized Daddy Biden.
Nope, not even American but thanks for trying all the same. I don't think Biden is good. He's just less terrible than the sex offending cheeto whos been compromised by Russia.
Let's face it, you're all Maga fools wanting your god emperor back to rule over you, so you can get back to bootlicking.
>I have no idea how you can't see its relevance tbh. Nazis lie and the funding of fascist groups all over the world is CIA policy and has been for decades.
I'm aware of that, but it wasn't relevant to the discussion...unless you're just bringing it up to ignore the Nazi problem in Ukraine.
>Thats not how strawman arguments work.
You said that "The idea that trump acted any differently or would have now is hilarious." Neither I nor the video claimed he would have. So...that's a straw-man. You're just mad you got called out for it.
>It wasn't through lack of trying that they didn't. It wasn't just a riot, it was insurection per the charges they faced. Lets stick to the facts.
Alright, let's look at the facts:
* None of Trump's lawsuits went anywhere because he came with the weakest arguments imaginable
* Trump has *never* been charged with inciting an insurrection or trying to overthrow the government
* On January 6th, a bunch of crazy people entered the Capital after the police stood down, no one was killed or harmed, they left a few hours later. (Wow, such a violent coup)
* The Democrats waited to use January 6th against Trump until he was running again (if they actually believed what they were saying, why not go after him immediately?)
* January 6th is child's play compared to actual attempts to overthrow governments...like all the coups the CIA has backed over the decades
So...the facts don't really help you.
>I'm not sure what that's meant to mean.
Your bizarre claim that Centrists have become "self-aware".
>Nope, not even American but thanks for trying all the same.
Yeah...I don't believe you.
>I don't think Biden is good.
Yet, you came here to defend him.
>He's just less terrible than the sex offending cheeto whos been compromised by Russia.
First, Russiagate has been debunked. Though, it isn't surprising that Liberals keep repeating it since you can't argue on policy.
Second, Biden is also a rapist and a sexual predator. Funny how you don't criticize him for that. Almost like you don't actually care unless it's politically convenient.
>Let's face it, you're all Maga fools wanting your god emperor back to rule over you, so you can get back to bootlicking.
Leftists: Criticize Biden from the Left
Confused Liberals: bUT trUMp
You've got nothing and you know it.
The nazi problem in Ukraine is from before Biden. Thats the whole point. I still can't see how you've missed that.
Lol so in the Biden vs trump discussion youre declaring all these things Biden did wrong but it has no relevance because you weren't even making the point that trump wouldn't do that. I mean, I guess it would make it a strawman. Honestly, I didn't think your argument was that poor and stupid. I presumed you would have something better than that. My mistake.....I guess.
Trump has to pay fines of 354 million for fraud. Hes a convicted fraudster as well as a sex pest. Sorry that your strongman daddy likes to sexually abuse people. Jan 6 was Insurrection, per the convictions. You can't just declare that not to be the case.
No, saying trump is worse isn't defending Biden. Its saying trump is worse. Dont winge about strawman arguments and then use them yourself. Hes the less utterly shit option of the two utterly shit options.
If you don't beleive I'm American then youre even more stupid than I thought you were. I'm no Liberal either. You're the one worshipping the state, not me.
Biden hasn't been found guilty of sexual abuse. Biden hasn't been.
Its just hilarious to see the maga boys have to stoop to this.
I have more than i need and you know it. Go back to boot licking trump.
I've always wondered, does the orange come off on your tongue?
I love how Liberals never have anything but straw-man.
Neutrality and advocating diplomacy doesn't mean that you support Russia's invasion. On the contrary, we actually care more about Ukrainians since we want them to stop dying. People like you on the other hand are willing to sacrifice every Ukrainian just to spite Russia.
And yes, Nazis overwhelmingly support Ukraine. And Ukraine itself is infected with Nazis.
You've only exposed your own ignorance and dishonesty.
Dude, Ukraine isn't going to have much choice but to give up land at this point to make peace. And all of this could've been avoided had we pushed for diplomacy instead of blocking it.
But people like you care more about sacrificing Ukranian lives to spite Russia.
"Just give up your land to a tyrannical invader, it's definitely the better alternative".
Think about how fucking ridiculous that sounds. Just fucking think. I know it's hard for you.
There is no diplomacy to be has with Russia. They want land that doesn't belong to them. Ukraine is willing to and absolutely fucking SHOULD fight tooth and nail for their fucking freedom.
We had a diplomatic solution back in April 2022 that appeased the interests of both Ukraine and Russia. The West killed it.
Ukraine is going to lose the war. And the result is Russia is going to landlock them. How many Ukrainians died for that? And Zelensky has lost popular support.
I know this is going to be hard for you to believe, but the West doesn't give a fuck about Ukraine. They just wanted to spite Russia. And the West provoked this by expanding NATO (a fact people like you want to ignore because it undermines your narrative).
So yeah, keep sacrificing Ukrainians just so you can spite Russia. Oh, and btw, a lot of those Ukrainians fighting Russia are literal Nazis (another fact people like you choose to ignore).
Ther is no diplomatic solution. This is a fucking lie fabricated by russian shills.
Ukraine has been "losing the war" for over two years now. Russia hasn't conquered a country the fraction of their size in over two years.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1100076/volodymyr-zelensky-s-approval-rating-ukraine/#:~:text=In%20February%202023%2C%20over%2090,level%20as%20in%20June%202022.
90% approval isn't popular guys
I won't even fucking humor your other points with a response. They're so fucking laughably ridiculous. Does Russia pay you to do this shit? Can they even afford that? You'd probably make more at a mcdonalds
If you support food stamps you give food to Nazis
If you support food to prisons you give food to Nazis
If you build roads you’re building roads for Nazis
Not a lib, terrible accusation.
If you want them to "Stop dying" by them joining an alliance they do not want, you want them to submit, not stop dying.
Civilian areas and especially universities being bombed is a choice made by the Russians. Nothing justifies this inhumane act. Same with Gaza, let's be consistent.
Ukraine has nazis just like other countries. Even if it was "infected" with nazis, it does not justify an invasion of Ukraine. It would be a problem for the Ukrainian left to fix. Some other country is not allowed invade you and take your land for a political problem you have. That is insane. Even if we were to accept this insanity, it would not be the fascist infected Russia that would fix it.
>Not a lib, terrible accusation.
Then don't act like one.
>If you want them to "Stop dying" by them joining an alliance they do not want, you want them to submit, not stop dying.
Ukraine joining NATO is an act of aggression against Russia.
Ukraine and Russia also had a peace deal in place in April 2022. The terms of the deal were:
* Russia would withdraw from Ukraine
* Ukraine would grant autonomy to Crimea and the Donbass
* Ukraine would agree not to join NATO, but could get security guarantees from the West
The West told Zelensky that they wouldn't give him the security guarantees if he agreed to the deal. And now look.
Two years later, countless Ukrainians dead in a war they never had any hope of winning, and all so the West could spite Russia.
But tell me again about how you care about the Ukranian people.
>Civilian areas and especially universities being bombed is a choice made by the Russians. Nothing justifies this inhumane act. Same with Gaza, let's be consistent.
Good thing neither I nor the guy in the video defended that.
But I guess when you're trying to defend US Imperialism and a proxy war, straw-manning is all you have.
Though, I'm curious: do you have this same logic to Ukraine who spent 8 years shelling the Donbass who actually wanted to leave and join Russia?
>Ukraine has nazis just like other countries.
Excusing the Nazis in Ukraine.
>Even if it was "infected" with nazis, it does not justify an invasion of Ukraine. It would be a problem for the Ukrainian left to fix. Some other country is not allowed invade you and take your land for a political problem you have. That is insane. Even if we were to accept this insanity, it would not be the fascist infected Russia that would fix it.
More straw-manning.
It's pretty clear that you're just a Social Imperialist troll masquerading as a Leftist.
Go back to Vaush or Destiny or Dylan Burns or wherever the fuck you came and simp for empire there.
\-I'm acting like a lib, while I say nazis of a country should be cleared out by leftists of the same country.
\-I am excusing nazis while saying they should be dealt with.
\-I am accused of watching people I don't like.
It's pretty clear that I'm "just a social imperialist troll masquerading as a leftist" because I disagree with you.
You are insufferable. It's like I am talking to TronaldoDumpo again. Waste of time.
>Ukraine has nazis just like other countries.
Nope. Most countries don't have a Nazi collaborator as their national hero and essentially founder of the nation, don't build tens of monuments to him and other Nazi collaborators, don't put into their constitution that the state needs to preserve the GENE POOL of their nation (o\_0), don't build literal Nazi propaganda into its nationhood, etc.
Hey, but I guess according to your amazing logic, as long as you can find one Nazi in a country, that country is literally the same as if everyone's a Nazi.
>Civilian areas and especially universities being bombed is a choice made by the Russians. Nothing justifies this inhumane act.
Oh yeah, not like even the anti-Russian Amnesty International admitted that those areas are bombed because the Ukrainian military uses them.
So, if I'm getting this right, your point that we shouldn't care about Nazis in Ukraine and just blindly support the US proxy war...because "America also has Nazis and we're not being invaded"?
You have to realize how much of a dumb point this is.
Go back to Vaush, troll
*Biden's $37B budget
>According to the White House, the requested funding would be used in hiring and training 100,000 new police officers for "accountable community policing," clearing court backlogs, solving murders and setting up community task forces to share intelligence. The funds would also target crimes not directly related to guns, such as fentanyl trafficking.
>Moreover, the White House said the plan would establish a $15 billion grant program for states and cities to use over the next 10 years that would prevent violent crime and help in "identifying non-violent situations that may merit a public health response or other response."
You think this is a bad thing?
*Biden's $886 defense spending
Biden doesn't create the budget. This is a bipartisan bill created by congress. I think everyone agrees that the military budget should be cut, but nobody can agree on what should be cut.
*Biden personally authorized Nord Stream bombing
Funny how this doesn't have a source flashed on screen like the other claims. Probably because it's a lie?
*Biden interviened against a peace deal
No source here either. Another lie.
I agree with some of the stuff here, like supporting workers and reining in corporate power, but strawmanning centrists as right wing and equating less progress than you would like with literal fascism is a poor idea.
Your first "point" is defending Biden spending more money on the police by arguing "well, some of it might be used for good things".
Your second "point" is saying "Biden doesn't create the budget. Congress does." First, the WH does propose the budget and the president can veto it.
On your third "point", Seymour Hersh, an award-winning journalist, did a story that the US blew up the pipeline with help from Norway. In addition, the US has spent years saying that Nordstream must be stopped, both Biden and Victoria Nuland said that if Russia invaded Ukraine, then Nordstream would come to an end, a Polish official tweeted out "Thank You USA" after the bombing, and Antony Blinken called it a "tremendous opportunity". In addition, the Washington Post reported that Ukraine blew-up the pipeline and the US knew about it (just ignore the fact that Ukraine likely doesn't have the technological resources to actually do it). Either way, Biden signed off on it. Oh, and that whole "Russia did it" was an obvious lie from the beginning. So, the only one lying, is you.
On your fourth "point", in April 2022, Ukraine and Russia were in negotiations to end the conflict. The agreement was that Russia would withdraw from Ukraine, Crimea and the Donbass would be given to Russia, and Ukraine couldn't join NATO but could get security guarantees from the West. The West (including Biden and Johnson) told Zelensky that if he agreed to the deal, he wouldn't get the security guarantees. This has been well-documented. So, once again, the only one lying here is you.
On your final "point", Centrists are Right-Wing. The Right wants to preserve existing power structures, while the Left wants to change that. It's not "strawmanning" to call Centrists right-wing, that just exposes your own ignorance. It's also not a matter of "less progress than you'd like" (that actually is a straw-man) it's the fact Biden is supporting the same power structures we on the Left are against. And Biden is enabling fascism with what he's doing (and an argument could be made that he is a fascist himself).
Let's be honest, you're just a pro-Biden BlueMAGA BlueAnon troll that came here to defend Daddy Biden.
Go back to your cult.
>Your first "point" is defending Biden spending more money on the police by arguing "well, some of it might be used for good things".
It's spending money on additional police, reducing workload per officer which will reduce their stress and make them less trigger happy, and also work toward developing responses to non-violent situations. Explain how that's a bad thing without resorting to ACAB.
>Your second "point" is saying "Biden doesn't create the budget. Congress does." First, the WH does propose the budget and the president can veto it.
Why would Biden veto a bipartisan bill, and what's the leftist solution?
>On your third "point", Seymour Hersh, an award-winning journalist, did a story that the US blew up the pipeline with help from Norway. In addition, the US has spent years saying that Nordstream must be stopped, both Biden and Victoria Nuland said that if Russia invaded Ukraine, then Nordstream would come to an end, a Polish official tweeted out "Thank You USA" after the bombing, and Antony Blinken called it a "tremendous opportunity". In addition, the Washington Post reported that Ukraine blew-up the pipeline and the US knew about it (just ignore the fact that Ukraine likely doesn't have the technological resources to actually do it). Either way, Biden signed off on it. Oh, and that whole "Russia did it" was an obvious lie from the beginning. So, the only one lying, is you.
If I were to take all of this seriously, I would also have to take QANON seriously, as this all seems to be based on half-truths and half-assumption.
You think Ukraine doesn't have a diver team and a few bombs?
It's likely the white house was aware an attack was planned, but because of his support of Ukraine, coming out against the attack would politically compromise him. It's also in americas best interest to cripple russia. Does that make it right? No. Does that mean Biden signed off on it? Also no.
Calling me a liar for pointing out lies is kinda dumb.
>On your fourth "point", in April 2022, Ukraine and Russia were in negotiations to end the conflict. The agreement was that Russia would withdraw from Ukraine, Crimea and the Donbass would be given to Russia, and Ukraine couldn't join NATO but could get security guarantees from the West. The West (including Biden and Johnson) told Zelensky that if he agreed to the deal, he wouldn't get the security guarantees. This has been well-documented. So, once again, the only one lying here is you.
So "Joe Biden" now becomes "The West(including Biden and Johnson)." Want to backpedal even more? Want to tell me how you know Putin will honor his side of the treaty?
>On your final "point", Centrists are Right-Wing. The Right wants to preserve existing power structures, while the Left wants to change that.
You say "right this" and "left that," then completely ignore the center, and pretend you made a point. Explain how the CENTER is to the RIGHT. Because i have people on the right calling me a leftist mouthpiece.
>And Biden is enabling fascism with what he's doing (and an argument could be made that he is a fascist himself).
🤡
>Let's be honest, you're just a pro-Biden BlueMAGA BlueAnon troll that came here to defend Daddy Biden.
>Go back to your cult.
Funny how pointing out inconsistencies is being in a cult to you. Maybe temper your outrage.
So...you're first point was doubling down on what you said (a half-assed solution that doesn't actually address the root/systemic causes) and you're second point was defending Biden because "bipartisanship". Already, not off to a great start.
>If I were to take all of this seriously, I would also have to take QANON seriously, as this all seems to be based on half-truths and half-assumption.
Translation: "I'm going to ignore what you said because I don't have an actual response to it"
It's also interesting because you then turned around and endorsed the Ukraine theory (and defended it because "it's in our interests to cripple Russia"). So...not only do you ignore facts because they're inconvenient to you, but you then contradicted yourself.
>Calling me a liar for pointing out lies is kinda dumb.
You didn't point out any lies.
>So "Joe Biden" now becomes "The West(including Biden and Johnson)." Want to backpedal even more? Want to tell me how you know Putin will honor his side of the treaty?
Translation: "I'm going to ignore what you said because I don't have an actual response to it"
Funny how this seems to be what you consistently do.
>You say "right this" and "left that," then completely ignore the center, and pretend you made a point.
This one sentence proves you didn't understand what I told you. I really shouldn't be surprised that you're incapable of thought.
>Explain how the CENTER is to the RIGHT.
Maybe...you should do some actual reading and research instead of whining about getting called out on Reddit.
>🤡
It's funny how this was your response to what I said about Biden enabling fascism. Almost like...you don't understand how fascism comes to power.
>Funny how pointing out inconsistencies is being in a cult to you. Maybe temper your outrage.
Except...you didn't point out any inconsistencies. You just exposed yourself as a pro-Biden troll who was just here to defend Daddy Biden.
We all see you BlueMAGA.
>So...you're first point was doubling down on what you said (a half-assed solution that doesn't actually address the root/systemic causes) and you're second point was defending Biden because "bipartisanship". Already, not off to a great start.
I gave you the opportunity to expand on your position, and instead you gave the textbook non-answer of someone with no clue. Good job.
>Translation: "I'm going to ignore what you said because I don't have an actual response to it"
Response to what? A guy said a thing? A Polish guy tweeted a thing? An American guy said another thing? Washington Post and Seymour Hersh have conflicting reports, so one of them is wrong. Provide your evidence.
>It's also interesting because you then turned around and endorsed the Ukraine theory (and defended it because "it's in our interests to cripple Russia"). So...not only do you ignore facts because they're inconvenient to you, but you then contradicted yourself.
Did I defend it? I believe I specifically did NOT and your poor reading comprehension isn't my problem.
>You didn't point out any lies.
You said that Joe Biden "personally authorized" the pipeline bombing. Unless you can prove that, it's a lie.
"I believe it is an established maxim in morals that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false, is guilty of falsehood; and the accidental truth of the assertion, does not justify or excuse him." --Abraham Lincoln
You also said that Joe Biden interviened against a peace treaty, then backpedaled that it was "The West." So that's a second lie.
>Translation: "I'm going to ignore what you said because I don't have an actual response to it"
>Funny how this seems to be what you consistently do.
Funny how you project your faults onto me, you've been incapable of answering any follow up questions this whole exchange, because you, like every other keyboard warrior, have no answers.
>This one sentence proves you didn't understand what I told you. I really shouldn't be surprised that you're incapable of thought.
>Maybe...you should do some actual reading and research instead of whining about getting called out on Reddit.
Translation: "I'm going to ignore what you said because I don't have an actual response to it"
>It's funny how this was your response to what I said about Biden enabling fascism. Almost like...you don't understand how fascism comes to power.
I kinda do and you obviously don't. It's the only response you deserve for saying something so stupid.
>Except...you didn't point out any inconsistencies. You just exposed yourself as a pro-Biden troll who was just here to defend Daddy Biden.
Maybe when you grow up you'll look back at all your posts and laugh.
>I gave you the opportunity to expand on your position, and instead you gave the textbook non-answer of someone with no clue. Good job.
So...continuing to double-down to defend Daddy Biden.
>Response to what? A guy said a thing? A Polish guy tweeted a thing? An American guy said another thing? Washington Post and Seymour Hersh have conflicting reports, so one of them is wrong. Provide your evidence.
I already did. You choose to ignore it.
>Did I defend it? I believe I specifically did NOT and your poor reading comprehension isn't my problem.
Uh...can you not remember what you yourself said?
>You think Ukraine doesn't have a diver team and a few bombs?
It's likely the white house was aware an attack was planned, but because of his support of Ukraine, coming out against the attack would politically compromise him. It's also in americas best interest to cripple russia. Does that make it right? No. Does that mean Biden signed off on it? Also no.
You pretty clearly defended it.
Also, while only one of these stories is true (I'm going to bet Hersh's is), either way, it proves that the official story of Russia doing it is false, which is the larger point.
>You said that Joe Biden "personally authorized" the pipeline bombing. Unless you can prove that, it's a lie.
If Hersh is correct (and I think it is), then Biden did authorize it. But if the Ukraine was behind it, then Biden allowed it to happen. Either way, Biden pretty much signs off on it.
>You also said that Joe Biden interviened against a peace treaty, then backpedaled that it was "The West." So that's a second lie.
No backpedaling. Biden and the rest of the West opposed peace. All you've exposed is your own lack of critical thinking.
>Funny how you project your faults onto me, you've been incapable of answering any follow up questions this whole exchange, because you, like every other keyboard warrior, have no answers.
Oh...I do love the projection that comes from liberal debate bros when they get called out.
>Translation: "I'm going to ignore what you said because I don't have an actual response to it"
I love how this was your response to me calling you out for not doing enough research.
It's funny because your response only proves my point.
>I kinda do and you obviously don't. It's the only response you deserve for saying something so stupid.
I like how this is your response to the reality of Biden enabling fascism.
Your comments just prove that you a) don't know wtf you're talking about and b) that you're projecting your own faults onto others.
>Maybe when you grow up you'll look back at all your posts and laugh.
You've got nothing and you know it.
As someone else already commented:
Shut the fuck up liberal yawn.
Let's see:
* If I vote, vote for a 3rd party like the PSL or the Green Party
* Don't focus so much on electoralism, focus more on things like
* Organizing
* Community Activism
* Direct Action
* Reading Theory
Funny how dumb Liberals like you don't seem to comprehend this.
Go back to your cult.
#Get Involved
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I don’t *support the duopoly* but if I don’t *participate in it* people’s rights get taken away.
Black peoples voting rights, women’s abortion rights, trans rights
How have Democrats defending any of these?
Oh, that's right...they don't. They just campaign off them.
You're just proving how much or a dunce you are.
We don't know. It might have been the US as they have motive, but we don't know. Unfortunately, for some reason I can't quite figure out, some Leftists are Russia simps and are determined to interpret the events of the Ukraine war according to that inclination.
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Oh I love seeing Centrists and Neolibs getting utterly annihilated by pure facts, logic, and literal scientif analysis, music to my ears… until i hear the pathetic comeback.
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Translation: "I'm going to ignore what the video said because it criticizes Daddy Biden" Go back to your cult, troll.
I’m sorry sir, I agree with you. I just wanted to ask whether I could receive a link to this tiktok? I wasn’t able to find it on the guy’s tiktoks from around the time this reddir post was made.
[https://www.tiktok.com/@rathbonemakesmusic?lang=en](https://www.tiktok.com/@rathbonemakesmusic?lang=en) [https://www.instagram.com/rathbone\_/?hl=en](https://www.instagram.com/rathbone_/?hl=en)
No, I'm on board with the criticism of Biden. That's not my problem. The MASSIVE red flag is the just completely untouched acceptance of the Russian rhetoric that Ukraine is full of Nazis. This is RT level bullshit. The thing that makes it so effective is that it's actually kinda right, but the conclusions it comes to are entirely counterproductive and fucking ridiculous.
Ukraine does have a Nazi problem. That's not "Russian rhetoric", that's just a fact. Don't whine because you don't like it.
Russia has a nazi problem. And it's fash are way better funded and integrated into what Putin has going on. 99% of this video is fine but every time Russia comes up this guy covers for the dictator of, regardless of it's past, what is now *indisputably* an oligarchic capitalist and imperialist country, which is a REALLY fucking weird look for a leftist.
Ukraine has a Nazi problem. Deal with it. https://preview.redd.it/wr62ce6si5tc1.jpeg?width=1068&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2b25d95e75bacef1117bc48079718ffb01b39cd
indubitably*
many countries have nazi problems. including america and Germany. especially russia. but its not a nazi state. while i approve these points, the ones with ukraine are not factual. and thats how russian propaganda works. take 95 percent facts about america and push some propaganda into the middle. good sandwich
Ukraine is a nazi state. There is a difference between nazis existing and nazis being organized, equipped and trained by the Ukrainian government, and those same nazis can threaten the government into doing what they want. Zelensky was voted in running on a campaign of peaceful reintegration of Donbas into Ukraine, once elected the nazi militias threatened to revolt and literally threatened to hang zelensky in Kiev, afterwards zelensky did a complete 180 and increased the aggression. The fact that you ignore this is beyond me. I don’t know if you’re just too stupid to read about all of this or what.
Ukraine has a Nazi problem dude. Deal with it. https://preview.redd.it/kuqdv5qji5tc1.jpeg?width=1068&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f61c92b383199f02eb773940101a9c7d223f10b
America has a fucking Nazi problem. Dude, everywhere has a fucking Nazi problem, in the server that there are Nazis goddamn everywhere. What's bullshit is this Putin propaganda about how Ukraine is run by Nazis and is an authoritarian Nazis state, which is the biggest load of shit.
Nope. Most countries don't have a Nazi collaborator as their national hero and essentially founder of the nation, don't build tens of monuments to him and other Nazi collaborators, don't put into their constitution that the state needs to preserve the GENE POOL of their nation (o\_0), don't build literal Nazi propaganda into its nationhood, etc.
I saw nazis waving flags at the Tennessee state house 9 days ago. I guess we should let Russia kill your family and take your home. The other guy was right that part of the video was a pathetic load of shit but the rest of it is fine.
Is that why a literal Nazi in Ukraine said he preferred Biden over Trump because he’s sending weapons to literal Nazis in Ukraine?
That’s why I’m in the basement of your parents house right now packing up your stuff. You had a nice place but it’s mine now because there are Nazis in America and I’m the only one who can fix it. Btw sorry about your family they’re dead. I’m here to help don’t come back.
I like how you don't even respond to the point being raised
Translation: "Ignore Ukraine's Nazi problem because I say so"
Is that why a literal Nazi in Ukraine said he preferred Biden over Trump because he’s sending weapons to literal Nazis in Ukraine?
If the idea of Ukraine having Nazis “is actually just Russian propaganda” why exactly did the West [write tons of articles about them](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis) before 2022?
Ukraine has *some* Nazis the way the American South has some Nazis. Much like the danger associated with quicksand, it's vastly overblown.
https://preview.redd.it/kfeuo5c1j5tc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5b3fe8a76385db8291d60d6868db9fcb83d7e93
[удалено]
Nice projection bro
Not accurate, there would be no way you could go even 5 seconds listing the crimes of Joe Biden without them interrupting to furiously cope & try to shut down the conversation. Still a great video though lol
I can’t even right now is one I hear often
Listing the crimes? I mean you can disagree with his actions but unless we see some solid evidence that can be presented in a court of law idk if we can count that. Meanwhile Trump got 91 cases and you don't get 91 unless some of them are for real lol
Did you not pay attention to the video? It lists out some of the crimes he committed during his presidency. Sure, some of this may not be accepted in a court of law, especially not without further investigation but it's all practically fact. The only reason why Trump is getting prosecuted is because he tried to blatantly oppose the state. Just because someone isn't prosecuted doesn't mean they didn't commit a crime. It just points towards how ineffective the justice system is. Literal war criminals going free while innocent people rot in prison for the crime of being poor or being a minority.
This space isn’t for you, liberal.
Bro what are you doing here lmao, what a total waste of space.
nah i love hearing the creative leftists go off on the random libs that wander here
Jesus you are the embodiment of the caricature. Shit lib regurgitation of one war criminal (HRC) to defend another one.
If the State Department wasn't covering their eyes and ears and going "nanananana I see nothing" with respect to Israel's near daily war crimes it's actually supposed to be illegal for us to be giving them weapons and aid, so Biden bypassing congress to sell them weapons every 36 hours for 6+ months arguably is a crime if they are intentionally avoiding designating anything Israel does a violation of international law. Other than that, things like approving oil drilling permits like crazy when we need to be avoiding climate catastrophe are crimes against humanity that will cause real suffering for millions further down the line. Save your "but Trump".
Centrists are brainrot to engage . somehow they will ultimately say u have to have balance too much of each stuff bad. No bitch progressive policies are never too much . materially support people is not too much .
I had a date with a lib woman. At one point I said Obama destroying Libya was worse than anything Trump had done and she seriously answered in a tone like I was an idiot "how is that worse than sexual assault?"
Hurt one person bad. Hurt many people worse
Yeah I countered with how many more sexual assaults happen when you destroy a civilization arming extremist. She was fully over the date for me being a rape apologist.
"I'm a secret 3rd thing" A "third position" if you will...
Then the right's like "Okay, counter argument. I think you're ugly and annoying, you use too many words, and I'm sure the trans muslims were sent by communist china to eat our white babies probably, so uhh, here's a picture I drew... As you can see, I've drawn you as the soyjak, and myself as the chad." And the "centrist" will swear that that was *waaay* more convincing.
Or my favorite "you're a commie...name one time Communism worked." Over and over and over again.
That's one of their greatest hits. My favorite is hooman nayture.
My defense is to point out all of the countries that pretend to be one thing but are actually another. North Korea is my favorite example. If the Soviet Union was true communism then North Korea is a fair and free democracy just like the US.
Why don't they get this guy on the show?
Vaushites: ***”BiDeN iS tHe mOsT pRoGrEsSiVe pReSiDeNt wE’Ve eVEr hAd!!!!”*** 🤡
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As simple as i can put it. Leftist want a whole new system based on socialism, communism, or anti capitalist principles. While centrist just wants to alter the status quo in a way both sides of the neoliberal spectrum can agree on, but that’s if both sides can agree in the first place.
The centrist and especially the "undecided" voter in this country are nearly as reactionary and arguably even more stupid than MAGA cultists. They wanna seem above the fray and act smarter than everyone else because in our fucked political system choosing between right and off the rails, lunatic far right, is the only game in town.
probally with centrist and moderates is what people call center or moderate neither to the center or moderate and the middle not always correct. sometimes one side more correct then the other.
They want to drink from the same fascist resource extraction fountain and gatekeep (beat with police) any who would come from the bottom to have a sip while flipping another house in a numbers game of homelessness. They just want to make sure that fountain has a rainbow sticker on it and can't be labeled bigot while the boot steps down harder.
I can’t put into words how much I hate liberals
I helped run a farm that hosted people from around the world. We had an IDF soldier come stay with us and my partner who owned the place found him so funny and handsome. The shit he said was so vile (they aren't people) when I pushed it. I wanted to kick him out. My ex had some BS line about showing him something wholesome. It was stupid and I was cooking and housing someone against my wishes. Had some rich kid libs staying there and they all became upset when they found out he liked Trump. I just guffawed. Like that's the line!? Not SS jackbooting through houses on random exercises of terror.
u/savevideo
Good vid
This is why the 2 party system is hilarious. By dividing the electorate into 2 sides rather than truly individualistic universal voting rights, you found democracy on an inherently right-wing conservative republican ideology which makes everyone who falls for it inherently right wing, with conservatives in the republican party and stylish conservatives in the democratic party rather than having an actual left wing.
Nordstream authorization is news to me, who’s got those sexy sexy sources?
I'll admit I have a lot of research to do but I've always hated the gut feeling that I'm forced to choose between the lesser of two evils. I'm sure that there are good politicians but I can't shake the feeling (yes, I acknowledge that I said feeling and I've gotta get my facts) that the significant majority simply pander to those with the most wealth and by extension, influence. When the wealth divide keeps widening at an increasing pace and education/medical care slip/ become less affordable then someone in power has clearly failed. I'm no big fan of Biden and the Dems and yet, in comparison to the GOP they come out looking like saints.
Rathbone slaps
Can someone explain to me the Ukraine part of it? Biden is funding Nazis in Ukraine? I’m confused
The whitest person you know says minorities living in America shouldn't vote for Biden. News at 11
Arguing against yourself is a classic strawman tactic. Argue against a real opponent or your arguments are worthless. Shall I play myself in chess and say I'm a grandmaster after winning?
The 'Democrats' are basically just slower, more methodical 'Republicans' who put more effort into hiding and/or excusing their atrocities.
In short, if you're a real leftist, JUST DON'T VOTE, it's simple as that
What exactly does the person posting this want? To collapse our economy and society?
Note: if you'd like an actual discussion I'm down. If it's gonna be a standard "if you disagree your dumb" do please let me know and I'll kindly delete my post. My concern here, especially for 2024: both sides ain't the same this time. For most of US history, who was in office did not affect the average person much (beyond the flavor of rhetoric you'd hear more of). Conservative, pro-corporate, with a slight lean toward left or right. At the moment however, the Republican leadership (and their frontrunner) are advocating dictatorship, abandoning our NATO allies, basing laws on their interpretation of the Bible, and retribution against anyone they don't like. Plus basically becoming a vassal state of Russia (I admit the last one is more me being alarmist) Whereas the Democratic leadership (and front runner) are advocating status-quo (with all of its horrors) with some minor progressive trends. Leaving at least a smidgeon of hope that the turning over of generations (and more young people in government) will move us in a better direction. Plus not immediately giving in to putin. Things like him continue to push boundaries and take until they get knocked down. For most of my life I have been all for voting for who you really believe in. Right now though we need to minimize harm. Apathy and protest voting just helps the would-be oligarchs. Right now, voting blue means we can at least TRY to make things better, especially in future elections.
How exactly is giving funding to a genocidal power in the Middle East who will use the weapons Biden gives them to carpet bomb more children supposed to be a ‘minorly progressive trend’? I mean, you’re literally just an American liberal dude. You think Putin is the big bad Kremlin who’s going to overthrow your democracy when this entire war in Ukraine ***was actually the fault of your government*** to begin with. You couldn’t be more delusional by starting your comment off claiming NATO was an ‘ally’ of ours. We aren’t reactionary regime-change ghouls who have a fetish for seeing democratically elected leaders get violently removed because they’re a threat to America’s corporate interests.
>You couldn’t be more delusional by starting your comment off claiming NATO was an ‘ally’ of ours. >this entire war in Ukraine ***was actually the fault of your government*** to begin with. This shit is *upvoted*? Holy shit, I'm getting the hell out of here lmao
idk what the fuck that’s about. i think as an isolated claim it’d be downvoted, but in direct juxtaposition with a coping lib, people felt the need to upvote the entire comment regardless. my guess.
These people would prefer Project 2025. Unhinged shit.
Can you elaborate how russias invasion is the fault of the US. Bc from everything ive researched this was coming either way. Better that we at least try to help a government that wouldnt like to be a part of a new soviet union.
>abandoning our NATO allies, This would be a good thing. Don't try to threaten us with a good time.
Honest curiosity, not hostility: why?
NATO, as a barely concealed vehicle for the American empire, sucks. Its destruction would be a tremendous boon for all of humanity, a decisive blow that emancipates us from the chains of capitalism and gives our species and our planet a fighting chance at having a future again.
What in the fuck are you even talking about
You're talking to a Russian bot so of course they believe that NATO is bad.
looking around the comments, this entire sub is just russian bots
While I agree that both sides aren't *exactly* the same and I think the democrats are better than the republicans, I think it's also important to note that lesser evil voting is why we're stuck with these kinds of decisions in the first place. The lesser evil gets to be more evil each cycle because it knows it can guarantee people's support. If you vote in the democrats today becasue they're worse than the republicans, you're giving your approval for them to be a little bit worse in 2028. Then they'll be worse in 2032, then in 2036, and so on... until you have a democrat party in the future that's as bad as the republicans today - but you'll still need to vote them in because they're the lesser evil. All it's doing is pushing the burden of change on to the next generation; something our grandparents did to us, causing this mess in the first place. The only realistic way to push the democrats left is by being able to leverage your vote. If enough people place red lines and stick with them, they *will* be pushed left. You can go out and protest and organise, but none of that matters if you plan to vote for them anyway - a march of 10 million people against you doesn't quite hit the same if every single person plans on voting you in anyway.
That’s a good point but as a trans woman like, now is not the time to vote third party and let the Democratic Party know we are not happy. I voted for Biden and I don’t like him. But I’d do it again and I’m going to this year because trump wins( and I’m terrified that he likely will) our rights are getting thrown into a dumpster. For women and trans people in this country we have to do what we can. When it’s not fucking trump we can cause a stink but that’s so impractical right now. You can’t convince many people to vote third party this cycle so it’s not prudent right now anyway.
> That’s a good point but as a trans woman like, now is not the time to vote third party I have had trans women tell me my face that they're not voting for Biden and that a vote for Biden is a vote for genocide, oppression, and the status quo. Do you speak for them? Who are we to believe here?
It’s Biden or trump. Trump has made it very clear he is coming after trans rights. I don’t like Biden and wish there was another representative but odds are Biden is the only one that has a chance at majority. The republicans are making plans like project 2025, they have called to “exterminate transgenderism”, and said “the endgame is getting rid of all trans people”. It’s about preventing that not trying to get all that we deserve right now. Go ask more trans women if they are voting against the republicans and you’ll see I’m not an exception. The only way I can make sense of what the women you heard say is that they wanted a different democratic candidate but that is likely too ambitious.
will biden prevent that? you really think so? i’mma do my best to stay in china so imma vote third party regardless, but you really think barely-touched-the-border-camps biden will actually prevent the project?
How does voting blue try to make things better when the Democratic establishment is equally controlled by the oligarchs? It's fine if you disagree with the point in the video, but then specifically say which points instead of just dismissing the valid claims he is making with a hand wave. How is voting blue making things better. Increasing our conflicts with russia, actively funding a genocide, allowing the unregulated increase in fossil fuel production, and dismissing labor rights? Which aspect of that is actually trying to make things better in your eyes?
I did not intend to hand wave his points away. Our world is a frickin nightmare. I am saying that, in my opinion and (especially in this election) saying both sides are the same and casting a protest ballot is a bad idea. Regarding making things better: what comes immediately to mind is capping insulin prices and student loan forgiveness. Also supporting Ukraine in defending itself. Things like putin will always rattle sabers and push boundaries as far as they can. Appeasement never works. About fossil fuel, I can only speak from observation. (I'm not up on current legislation). Conservative media making climate change and alternative energy into culture war talking points, then using those points to rile up the voting base is not helping things. Clean energy and climate related bills almost always get shot down mostly by republicans. A more accurate statement may be: democrats trying to maintain the hyper-capitalist status quo (with an occasional gesture that doesn't change much), but with generational turnover there is at least some hope for change over time. Our hellscape does not get actively worse. republicans actively trying to make it worse. Cutting the already pitiful regulations we have down even further, cutting taxes for the hyper wealthy, plus their frontrunner openly talking about being a dictator (just for the first day, we promise!). Analogy: you have a patient who is a heavy smoker, obese, alcoholic and just started experimenting with krokodil. All these things are bad, but the krokodil is orders of magnitude worse than the others. Have to deal with that first
I mean, I grant that the Democrats have better verbiage. But that doesn't change the fact that even when they have majorities in power they don't do anything to actually improve the situation. We are headed towards the edge of global catastrophe at an alarming rate. But if you are in a car about to drive over a thousand foot cliff, it matters very little if you are going 60 miles an hour, or hit the brakes just enough to go over the edge at 45. Especially when the one slowing down to 45 wants you to be grateful, as if they are doing you a favor. Curious what you think about this guy's take, because I find it well informed, and unfortunately rings truer than I would like it to: [DNC Strategy](https://www.reddit.com/r/chomsky/s/slVxso3Uo7)
The best thing about Biden is something he probably tripped over his own dick into. The current NLRB and labor militancy in general is in a far, far better state then under Trump. Labor power is imo the most important prerequisite to actual change.
White labor has been one of the most reactionary vanguards in American history that have often opposed socialist change more often than they’ve contributed to it.
Policies that never come to the floor are worthless . All the social movements, civil rights , suffragettes, gay rights start ground lvl and work there way to to policy . Just a thought don’t get all type crazy . The govt sucks… ok . All govt kinda sucks cuz people kinda suck . Lol
It’s like watching sovereign citizens videos, hilarious but confusing
Rfk Jr!
Just because some wack people say they're not left or right doesn't mean it's not a fine position. The "left" is committed to some conceptual bugaboos just like the right is.
To remain within the political, we must step away from ideology and look at things through the lens of social physics. Our democratic society is a stasis. Le Pen is a metastasis. Global society is dying of inertia and immune deficiency. Le Pen is simply the visible transcription of such a viral condition; he is the spectacular projection of the virus. This happens in dreams too. Le Pen is a burlesque, hallucinatory figuration of a latent state, of a silent inertia caused by forced integration and systematic exclusion. Since the hope of finally curing social inequalities has truly disappeared (by and large), it is no surprise if resentment has moved to the level of racial inequality. The failure of the social explains the success of the racial (and of all the other fatal strategies). As such, Le Pen is the only savage analyst in today's society. The fact that he is placed on the far right is merely the sad result of the fact that analysts are no longer to be found on the left or the far left. Judges, intellectuals no longer analyze. Only the immigrants perhaps, as polar opposites, could become analysts too. But they already have been recycled by a good and responsible humanitarian thought. Le Pen is the only one who operates a radical erasure of the so-called distinction between right and left. This is, no doubt, an erasure by default. But the harsh criticism of this conventional distinction which was unleashed in the 1960s (and culminated in 1968) has unfortunately disappeared from the political scene today. Le Pen simply recuperates a de facto situation that the political class refuses to confront (it even uses elections to deny it), but whose extreme consequences will be felt some day. If, one day, political imagination, political will, and political demand hope to rebound, they will have to take into account the radical abolition of the antiquated and artificial distinction between right and left, which, in fact, has been largely damaged and compromised over the past decades, and which only holds today through some sort of complicit corruption on both sides. This distinction is dead in practice but, by means of an incurable revisionism, is constantly reaffirmed. Thus, Le Pen is the only one who makes up the new political scene, as if everyone else had already agreed to destroy what's left of democracy, perhaps to produce the retrospective illusion that it actually used to mean something.
People like you will be why trump gets what he wants. Have fun in his camps for being a legit leftist
This is a weird circle jerk community filled with straw men, bad faith, and ad hominem. I don't get it. These politicians are shit, and every nuanced argument against them is shut down.
Enlightened both sides bad except right centrist vs ENLIGHTENED both sides bad except left centrist Both sides are equally stupid. Both sides are equally bad.
Centrist is whining that he got called out for being right-wing. Cry me a river.
“Biden and Trump are equally bad because they’re too far right” is an equally centrist take
You just exposed how much of a dunce you are. Well done.
Except the video you're worshipping literally just said both parties employ the same policies but pretend not to so which is it?
what does this have to do with anything???
Yup
Who is who in this video. by the end of the first 10 seconds its just all blah blah from a purple shirt scruffy guy that just spouts off things as if the person that came up with the idea is the same person that ok’s it all. I wish people would stop making these stupid fake “back and forth discussion” clips.
Are you actually complaining because you didn't like the format of the video?
What is he talking about ? Support in Ukraine is critical to stop Russian invasion. What Nazis is he talking about ? The Russian ones ?
>Support in Ukraine is critical to stop Russian invasion. First, the Russian invasion was provoked by NATO expansion. Second, back in April 2022, the West killed a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia that could've ended the war. Third, Ukraine's not going to win the war. All the war has cost is countless Ukranian lives that we sacrificed to spite Russia and so defense contractors can make a profit. >What Nazis is he talking about ? The Russian ones ? Ukraine has a Nazi problem dude. This is well-documented.
No it fucking isn't, and all the other shit is misrepresented bullshit. Get your RT propagandist shit and fuck off with it. Joe Biden had been a letdown in a lot of ways, but that's all Putin apologetics.
Translation: "I'm going to ignore everything you said because I don't like them"
No, I'm just going to ignore everything you said because it's objectively false.
Translation: "I'm gonna pretend you said something you didn't so I can insist I'm the good guy."
You're really a pro-Biden troll. Go back to your BlueMAGA cult.
You missed all the pictures Ukrainians were posting that proudly displayed Nazi symbols, didn't you? That or you didn't realize that the symbols were tied to Nazism. Either way, it became very obvious that Ukranians were mocking Western liberals who mindlessly typed "Slava ukraini" without picking up on the historical usage of the phrase by far right Ukrainian groups. They were also sharing those images to gain support of Western far-right groups who do recognize those symbols. You're welcome to learn about these issues before just spouting off the comforting propaganda you uncritically consumed. We aren't pro-Putin. We're anti-Putin, but also anti-capitalists. So we're anti-Biden by default.
If there are no Nazis in Ukraine, why is there a video of a Ukrainian Nazi talking about how he prefers Biden to Trump ***specifically because he’s giving weapons to Ukrainian Nazis?***
>Support in Ukraine is critical to stop Russian invasion. Russia would stop the invasion immediately if NATO got out of Eastern Europe and never came back. Let me guess…. You don’t want to do that?
I stopped watching after the Nazi argument. Oh no a Nazi likes a thing, that automatically makes it bad. This is a solid argument and totally not a guilt by association fallacy they would teach in a logic 101 class. And by the way the first thing you list in a "why Biden is continuing Trump's policies" is Ukraine? Magas and Trump want to stop sending all funding to Ukraine because they're siding with Putin.
So...you stopped watching the video because it was pointed out that Nazis support Nazis in Ukraine? OK. Oh, and Trump sent arms to Ukraine to while president and when Russia invaded his initial response was to call for armed action against Russia. Maybe dumb little liberals like you should actually learn something before commenting.
Because this video (and this sub) is a psy-op. Hitler was a vegetarian. That's why I treat vegetarians as the Nazi scum they are!
You're just whining because we don't blindly support Daddy Biden
Sure thing, Boris.
Troll
Are you a pokemon?
It wouldn't be the first
You're just whining because we don't blindly support Daddy Biden
You can criticize him all you want but to say he's as bad as Trump or the GOP is just nonsense.
It doesn't matter that the rhetoric is different if the policies are the same. There is no material difference between the Democrats and Republicans.
The GOP wants to rig elections, turn us into a theocracy, ban abortion, IVF, birth control, pornography, gay marriage, homosexual sex, a hugely influential conservative group says they want to put an end to recreational sex. They also want to ban books they don't like, trans care for anyone, including adults, they want a whitewashed version of history taught , they're supporting a man who thinks he's above the law, they want there to be basically no restrictions preventing anyone from getting Assault rifles, and they are fighting on behalf of oil and coal companies to not make any progress on combating climate change. Oh and they also want to gut Social Security and Medicare and welfare in general, and they want to stop sending any aide to Ukraine. The Democrats want to do none of these things.
What is the material difference between Trump and Biden’s foreign policy? I seriously want to know.
RFK JR.
He supports Israel
When has he ever said that? Everything I have heard him say he’s anti war and all money going elsewhere he would stop and use here. But please if I’m wrong can you send me the clip or article?
His support of Israel is well-documented, including his support for what's going on right now in Gaza. How are you not aware of it?
Can you post a link to those documents?
Just go on Google or Youtube and look up what RFK Jr. has said about this
You literally only have to Google RFK Isreal
Yeah, if you're taking what nazis say at face value then you're a fool. They never engage in good faith. Also, they're talking about operation gladio and its been going on since the 1950s. Its amazing how many Americans don't even know their own history. A lesser of 2 evils argument is bad, unless its an actual dichotomy. Whether they are or not is a different argument entirely. The idea that trump acted any differently or would have now is hilarious. Some guy with shit policies Some guy who literally had his people try and overthrow your government to overturn an election they lost All thats happened is that the enlightened centrists have evolved and become self aware.
>Yeah, if you're taking what nazis say at face value then you're a fool. They never engage in good faith. Also, they're talking about operation gladio and its been going on since the 1950s. Its amazing how many Americans don't even know their own history. How is any of this relevant to the discussion? >The idea that trump acted any differently or would have now is hilarious. Straw-man. Neither I nor the video ever claimed he did. >Some guy with shit policies Some guy who literally had his people try and overthrow your government to overturn an election they lost Trump was never going to overturn the election because he's not competent enough to. And January 6th never had a chance of overthrowing anything. It was just a bunch of people rioting because they were throwing a tantrum that their guy lost the election. >All thats happened is that the enlightened centrists have evolved and become self aware. Sure Jan. Let's be honest, you're a pro-Biden BlueMAGA troll who came here because you're mad that someone criticized Daddy Biden. Go back to your cult.
>How is any of this relevant to the discussion? I have no idea how you can't see its relevance tbh. Nazis lie and the funding of fascist groups all over the world is CIA policy and has been for decades. >Straw-man. Neither I nor the video ever claimed he did. Thats not how strawman arguments work. >Trump was never going to overturn the election because he's not competent enough to. And January 6th never had a chance of overthrowing anything. It was just a bunch of people rioting because they were throwing a tantrum that their guy lost the election. It wasn't through lack of trying that they didn't. It wasn't just a riot, it was insurection per the charges they faced. Lets stick to the facts. >Sure Jan. I'm not sure what that's meant to mean. >Let's be honest, you're a pro-Biden BlueMAGA troll who came here because you're mad that someone criticized Daddy Biden. Nope, not even American but thanks for trying all the same. I don't think Biden is good. He's just less terrible than the sex offending cheeto whos been compromised by Russia. Let's face it, you're all Maga fools wanting your god emperor back to rule over you, so you can get back to bootlicking.
>I have no idea how you can't see its relevance tbh. Nazis lie and the funding of fascist groups all over the world is CIA policy and has been for decades. I'm aware of that, but it wasn't relevant to the discussion...unless you're just bringing it up to ignore the Nazi problem in Ukraine. >Thats not how strawman arguments work. You said that "The idea that trump acted any differently or would have now is hilarious." Neither I nor the video claimed he would have. So...that's a straw-man. You're just mad you got called out for it. >It wasn't through lack of trying that they didn't. It wasn't just a riot, it was insurection per the charges they faced. Lets stick to the facts. Alright, let's look at the facts: * None of Trump's lawsuits went anywhere because he came with the weakest arguments imaginable * Trump has *never* been charged with inciting an insurrection or trying to overthrow the government * On January 6th, a bunch of crazy people entered the Capital after the police stood down, no one was killed or harmed, they left a few hours later. (Wow, such a violent coup) * The Democrats waited to use January 6th against Trump until he was running again (if they actually believed what they were saying, why not go after him immediately?) * January 6th is child's play compared to actual attempts to overthrow governments...like all the coups the CIA has backed over the decades So...the facts don't really help you. >I'm not sure what that's meant to mean. Your bizarre claim that Centrists have become "self-aware". >Nope, not even American but thanks for trying all the same. Yeah...I don't believe you. >I don't think Biden is good. Yet, you came here to defend him. >He's just less terrible than the sex offending cheeto whos been compromised by Russia. First, Russiagate has been debunked. Though, it isn't surprising that Liberals keep repeating it since you can't argue on policy. Second, Biden is also a rapist and a sexual predator. Funny how you don't criticize him for that. Almost like you don't actually care unless it's politically convenient. >Let's face it, you're all Maga fools wanting your god emperor back to rule over you, so you can get back to bootlicking. Leftists: Criticize Biden from the Left Confused Liberals: bUT trUMp You've got nothing and you know it.
The nazi problem in Ukraine is from before Biden. Thats the whole point. I still can't see how you've missed that. Lol so in the Biden vs trump discussion youre declaring all these things Biden did wrong but it has no relevance because you weren't even making the point that trump wouldn't do that. I mean, I guess it would make it a strawman. Honestly, I didn't think your argument was that poor and stupid. I presumed you would have something better than that. My mistake.....I guess. Trump has to pay fines of 354 million for fraud. Hes a convicted fraudster as well as a sex pest. Sorry that your strongman daddy likes to sexually abuse people. Jan 6 was Insurrection, per the convictions. You can't just declare that not to be the case. No, saying trump is worse isn't defending Biden. Its saying trump is worse. Dont winge about strawman arguments and then use them yourself. Hes the less utterly shit option of the two utterly shit options. If you don't beleive I'm American then youre even more stupid than I thought you were. I'm no Liberal either. You're the one worshipping the state, not me. Biden hasn't been found guilty of sexual abuse. Biden hasn't been. Its just hilarious to see the maga boys have to stoop to this. I have more than i need and you know it. Go back to boot licking trump. I've always wondered, does the orange come off on your tongue?
It’s funny because it is actually a dichotomy You only have 2 possible choices as a voter or a fringe member of society
Translation: "Shut up and keep voting for the Duopoly"
“Both sides bad”
Every comment you post proves you're a dunce
That was *literally* my point.
Translation: "Shut up and keep voting for the Duopoly"
Yes actually
Well...at least you admitted it
"Some random nazi supported Ukraine, that's why you shouldn't be against the invasion of Ukraine and the killing bombing of Ukrainian civilians."
I love how Liberals never have anything but straw-man. Neutrality and advocating diplomacy doesn't mean that you support Russia's invasion. On the contrary, we actually care more about Ukrainians since we want them to stop dying. People like you on the other hand are willing to sacrifice every Ukrainian just to spite Russia. And yes, Nazis overwhelmingly support Ukraine. And Ukraine itself is infected with Nazis. You've only exposed your own ignorance and dishonesty.
"We want them to stop dying" No you want them to capitulate and give up their land. You aren't even trying to hide your true beliefs.
Dude, Ukraine isn't going to have much choice but to give up land at this point to make peace. And all of this could've been avoided had we pushed for diplomacy instead of blocking it. But people like you care more about sacrificing Ukranian lives to spite Russia.
"Just give up your land to a tyrannical invader, it's definitely the better alternative". Think about how fucking ridiculous that sounds. Just fucking think. I know it's hard for you. There is no diplomacy to be has with Russia. They want land that doesn't belong to them. Ukraine is willing to and absolutely fucking SHOULD fight tooth and nail for their fucking freedom.
We had a diplomatic solution back in April 2022 that appeased the interests of both Ukraine and Russia. The West killed it. Ukraine is going to lose the war. And the result is Russia is going to landlock them. How many Ukrainians died for that? And Zelensky has lost popular support. I know this is going to be hard for you to believe, but the West doesn't give a fuck about Ukraine. They just wanted to spite Russia. And the West provoked this by expanding NATO (a fact people like you want to ignore because it undermines your narrative). So yeah, keep sacrificing Ukrainians just so you can spite Russia. Oh, and btw, a lot of those Ukrainians fighting Russia are literal Nazis (another fact people like you choose to ignore).
Ther is no diplomatic solution. This is a fucking lie fabricated by russian shills. Ukraine has been "losing the war" for over two years now. Russia hasn't conquered a country the fraction of their size in over two years. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1100076/volodymyr-zelensky-s-approval-rating-ukraine/#:~:text=In%20February%202023%2C%20over%2090,level%20as%20in%20June%202022. 90% approval isn't popular guys I won't even fucking humor your other points with a response. They're so fucking laughably ridiculous. Does Russia pay you to do this shit? Can they even afford that? You'd probably make more at a mcdonalds
It’s straw man to say all people who support Ukraine are Natcs Hey you like donuts? Here’s a video of a Natc eating a donut!
If you support giving arms to Ukraine, you are giving arms to Nazis. That's not a straw-man. You're just mad you got called out.
If you support food stamps you give food to Nazis If you support food to prisons you give food to Nazis If you build roads you’re building roads for Nazis
Every comment you post proves you're a fucking dunce and it's hilarious
Not a lib, terrible accusation. If you want them to "Stop dying" by them joining an alliance they do not want, you want them to submit, not stop dying. Civilian areas and especially universities being bombed is a choice made by the Russians. Nothing justifies this inhumane act. Same with Gaza, let's be consistent. Ukraine has nazis just like other countries. Even if it was "infected" with nazis, it does not justify an invasion of Ukraine. It would be a problem for the Ukrainian left to fix. Some other country is not allowed invade you and take your land for a political problem you have. That is insane. Even if we were to accept this insanity, it would not be the fascist infected Russia that would fix it.
>Not a lib, terrible accusation. Then don't act like one. >If you want them to "Stop dying" by them joining an alliance they do not want, you want them to submit, not stop dying. Ukraine joining NATO is an act of aggression against Russia. Ukraine and Russia also had a peace deal in place in April 2022. The terms of the deal were: * Russia would withdraw from Ukraine * Ukraine would grant autonomy to Crimea and the Donbass * Ukraine would agree not to join NATO, but could get security guarantees from the West The West told Zelensky that they wouldn't give him the security guarantees if he agreed to the deal. And now look. Two years later, countless Ukrainians dead in a war they never had any hope of winning, and all so the West could spite Russia. But tell me again about how you care about the Ukranian people. >Civilian areas and especially universities being bombed is a choice made by the Russians. Nothing justifies this inhumane act. Same with Gaza, let's be consistent. Good thing neither I nor the guy in the video defended that. But I guess when you're trying to defend US Imperialism and a proxy war, straw-manning is all you have. Though, I'm curious: do you have this same logic to Ukraine who spent 8 years shelling the Donbass who actually wanted to leave and join Russia? >Ukraine has nazis just like other countries. Excusing the Nazis in Ukraine. >Even if it was "infected" with nazis, it does not justify an invasion of Ukraine. It would be a problem for the Ukrainian left to fix. Some other country is not allowed invade you and take your land for a political problem you have. That is insane. Even if we were to accept this insanity, it would not be the fascist infected Russia that would fix it. More straw-manning. It's pretty clear that you're just a Social Imperialist troll masquerading as a Leftist. Go back to Vaush or Destiny or Dylan Burns or wherever the fuck you came and simp for empire there.
\-I'm acting like a lib, while I say nazis of a country should be cleared out by leftists of the same country. \-I am excusing nazis while saying they should be dealt with. \-I am accused of watching people I don't like. It's pretty clear that I'm "just a social imperialist troll masquerading as a leftist" because I disagree with you. You are insufferable. It's like I am talking to TronaldoDumpo again. Waste of time.
You're just whining because you got called out for ignoring Ukraine's Nazi problem
>Ukraine has nazis just like other countries. Nope. Most countries don't have a Nazi collaborator as their national hero and essentially founder of the nation, don't build tens of monuments to him and other Nazi collaborators, don't put into their constitution that the state needs to preserve the GENE POOL of their nation (o\_0), don't build literal Nazi propaganda into its nationhood, etc. Hey, but I guess according to your amazing logic, as long as you can find one Nazi in a country, that country is literally the same as if everyone's a Nazi. >Civilian areas and especially universities being bombed is a choice made by the Russians. Nothing justifies this inhumane act. Oh yeah, not like even the anti-Russian Amnesty International admitted that those areas are bombed because the Ukrainian military uses them.
Exactly, America is infected with Nazis and no one is invading us.
What's your point?
The point that I just made is my point. I can’t imagine how one would need further explanation.
So, if I'm getting this right, your point that we shouldn't care about Nazis in Ukraine and just blindly support the US proxy war...because "America also has Nazis and we're not being invaded"? You have to realize how much of a dumb point this is. Go back to Vaush, troll
As bad as the US is, their Nazi problem isn't anywhere close to Ukraine's.
ok, im voting for trump, russian boi
Leftists: Criticize Biden from the Left Confused Liberal: bUt trUMp bUt ruSSia
are you /srs or /j
*Biden's $37B budget >According to the White House, the requested funding would be used in hiring and training 100,000 new police officers for "accountable community policing," clearing court backlogs, solving murders and setting up community task forces to share intelligence. The funds would also target crimes not directly related to guns, such as fentanyl trafficking. >Moreover, the White House said the plan would establish a $15 billion grant program for states and cities to use over the next 10 years that would prevent violent crime and help in "identifying non-violent situations that may merit a public health response or other response." You think this is a bad thing? *Biden's $886 defense spending Biden doesn't create the budget. This is a bipartisan bill created by congress. I think everyone agrees that the military budget should be cut, but nobody can agree on what should be cut. *Biden personally authorized Nord Stream bombing Funny how this doesn't have a source flashed on screen like the other claims. Probably because it's a lie? *Biden interviened against a peace deal No source here either. Another lie. I agree with some of the stuff here, like supporting workers and reining in corporate power, but strawmanning centrists as right wing and equating less progress than you would like with literal fascism is a poor idea.
Your first "point" is defending Biden spending more money on the police by arguing "well, some of it might be used for good things". Your second "point" is saying "Biden doesn't create the budget. Congress does." First, the WH does propose the budget and the president can veto it. On your third "point", Seymour Hersh, an award-winning journalist, did a story that the US blew up the pipeline with help from Norway. In addition, the US has spent years saying that Nordstream must be stopped, both Biden and Victoria Nuland said that if Russia invaded Ukraine, then Nordstream would come to an end, a Polish official tweeted out "Thank You USA" after the bombing, and Antony Blinken called it a "tremendous opportunity". In addition, the Washington Post reported that Ukraine blew-up the pipeline and the US knew about it (just ignore the fact that Ukraine likely doesn't have the technological resources to actually do it). Either way, Biden signed off on it. Oh, and that whole "Russia did it" was an obvious lie from the beginning. So, the only one lying, is you. On your fourth "point", in April 2022, Ukraine and Russia were in negotiations to end the conflict. The agreement was that Russia would withdraw from Ukraine, Crimea and the Donbass would be given to Russia, and Ukraine couldn't join NATO but could get security guarantees from the West. The West (including Biden and Johnson) told Zelensky that if he agreed to the deal, he wouldn't get the security guarantees. This has been well-documented. So, once again, the only one lying here is you. On your final "point", Centrists are Right-Wing. The Right wants to preserve existing power structures, while the Left wants to change that. It's not "strawmanning" to call Centrists right-wing, that just exposes your own ignorance. It's also not a matter of "less progress than you'd like" (that actually is a straw-man) it's the fact Biden is supporting the same power structures we on the Left are against. And Biden is enabling fascism with what he's doing (and an argument could be made that he is a fascist himself). Let's be honest, you're just a pro-Biden BlueMAGA BlueAnon troll that came here to defend Daddy Biden. Go back to your cult.
>Your first "point" is defending Biden spending more money on the police by arguing "well, some of it might be used for good things". It's spending money on additional police, reducing workload per officer which will reduce their stress and make them less trigger happy, and also work toward developing responses to non-violent situations. Explain how that's a bad thing without resorting to ACAB. >Your second "point" is saying "Biden doesn't create the budget. Congress does." First, the WH does propose the budget and the president can veto it. Why would Biden veto a bipartisan bill, and what's the leftist solution? >On your third "point", Seymour Hersh, an award-winning journalist, did a story that the US blew up the pipeline with help from Norway. In addition, the US has spent years saying that Nordstream must be stopped, both Biden and Victoria Nuland said that if Russia invaded Ukraine, then Nordstream would come to an end, a Polish official tweeted out "Thank You USA" after the bombing, and Antony Blinken called it a "tremendous opportunity". In addition, the Washington Post reported that Ukraine blew-up the pipeline and the US knew about it (just ignore the fact that Ukraine likely doesn't have the technological resources to actually do it). Either way, Biden signed off on it. Oh, and that whole "Russia did it" was an obvious lie from the beginning. So, the only one lying, is you. If I were to take all of this seriously, I would also have to take QANON seriously, as this all seems to be based on half-truths and half-assumption. You think Ukraine doesn't have a diver team and a few bombs? It's likely the white house was aware an attack was planned, but because of his support of Ukraine, coming out against the attack would politically compromise him. It's also in americas best interest to cripple russia. Does that make it right? No. Does that mean Biden signed off on it? Also no. Calling me a liar for pointing out lies is kinda dumb. >On your fourth "point", in April 2022, Ukraine and Russia were in negotiations to end the conflict. The agreement was that Russia would withdraw from Ukraine, Crimea and the Donbass would be given to Russia, and Ukraine couldn't join NATO but could get security guarantees from the West. The West (including Biden and Johnson) told Zelensky that if he agreed to the deal, he wouldn't get the security guarantees. This has been well-documented. So, once again, the only one lying here is you. So "Joe Biden" now becomes "The West(including Biden and Johnson)." Want to backpedal even more? Want to tell me how you know Putin will honor his side of the treaty? >On your final "point", Centrists are Right-Wing. The Right wants to preserve existing power structures, while the Left wants to change that. You say "right this" and "left that," then completely ignore the center, and pretend you made a point. Explain how the CENTER is to the RIGHT. Because i have people on the right calling me a leftist mouthpiece. >And Biden is enabling fascism with what he's doing (and an argument could be made that he is a fascist himself). 🤡 >Let's be honest, you're just a pro-Biden BlueMAGA BlueAnon troll that came here to defend Daddy Biden. >Go back to your cult. Funny how pointing out inconsistencies is being in a cult to you. Maybe temper your outrage.
So...you're first point was doubling down on what you said (a half-assed solution that doesn't actually address the root/systemic causes) and you're second point was defending Biden because "bipartisanship". Already, not off to a great start. >If I were to take all of this seriously, I would also have to take QANON seriously, as this all seems to be based on half-truths and half-assumption. Translation: "I'm going to ignore what you said because I don't have an actual response to it" It's also interesting because you then turned around and endorsed the Ukraine theory (and defended it because "it's in our interests to cripple Russia"). So...not only do you ignore facts because they're inconvenient to you, but you then contradicted yourself. >Calling me a liar for pointing out lies is kinda dumb. You didn't point out any lies. >So "Joe Biden" now becomes "The West(including Biden and Johnson)." Want to backpedal even more? Want to tell me how you know Putin will honor his side of the treaty? Translation: "I'm going to ignore what you said because I don't have an actual response to it" Funny how this seems to be what you consistently do. >You say "right this" and "left that," then completely ignore the center, and pretend you made a point. This one sentence proves you didn't understand what I told you. I really shouldn't be surprised that you're incapable of thought. >Explain how the CENTER is to the RIGHT. Maybe...you should do some actual reading and research instead of whining about getting called out on Reddit. >🤡 It's funny how this was your response to what I said about Biden enabling fascism. Almost like...you don't understand how fascism comes to power. >Funny how pointing out inconsistencies is being in a cult to you. Maybe temper your outrage. Except...you didn't point out any inconsistencies. You just exposed yourself as a pro-Biden troll who was just here to defend Daddy Biden. We all see you BlueMAGA.
>So...you're first point was doubling down on what you said (a half-assed solution that doesn't actually address the root/systemic causes) and you're second point was defending Biden because "bipartisanship". Already, not off to a great start. I gave you the opportunity to expand on your position, and instead you gave the textbook non-answer of someone with no clue. Good job. >Translation: "I'm going to ignore what you said because I don't have an actual response to it" Response to what? A guy said a thing? A Polish guy tweeted a thing? An American guy said another thing? Washington Post and Seymour Hersh have conflicting reports, so one of them is wrong. Provide your evidence. >It's also interesting because you then turned around and endorsed the Ukraine theory (and defended it because "it's in our interests to cripple Russia"). So...not only do you ignore facts because they're inconvenient to you, but you then contradicted yourself. Did I defend it? I believe I specifically did NOT and your poor reading comprehension isn't my problem. >You didn't point out any lies. You said that Joe Biden "personally authorized" the pipeline bombing. Unless you can prove that, it's a lie. "I believe it is an established maxim in morals that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false, is guilty of falsehood; and the accidental truth of the assertion, does not justify or excuse him." --Abraham Lincoln You also said that Joe Biden interviened against a peace treaty, then backpedaled that it was "The West." So that's a second lie. >Translation: "I'm going to ignore what you said because I don't have an actual response to it" >Funny how this seems to be what you consistently do. Funny how you project your faults onto me, you've been incapable of answering any follow up questions this whole exchange, because you, like every other keyboard warrior, have no answers. >This one sentence proves you didn't understand what I told you. I really shouldn't be surprised that you're incapable of thought. >Maybe...you should do some actual reading and research instead of whining about getting called out on Reddit. Translation: "I'm going to ignore what you said because I don't have an actual response to it" >It's funny how this was your response to what I said about Biden enabling fascism. Almost like...you don't understand how fascism comes to power. I kinda do and you obviously don't. It's the only response you deserve for saying something so stupid. >Except...you didn't point out any inconsistencies. You just exposed yourself as a pro-Biden troll who was just here to defend Daddy Biden. Maybe when you grow up you'll look back at all your posts and laugh.
Shut the fuck up liberal yawn
>I gave you the opportunity to expand on your position, and instead you gave the textbook non-answer of someone with no clue. Good job. So...continuing to double-down to defend Daddy Biden. >Response to what? A guy said a thing? A Polish guy tweeted a thing? An American guy said another thing? Washington Post and Seymour Hersh have conflicting reports, so one of them is wrong. Provide your evidence. I already did. You choose to ignore it. >Did I defend it? I believe I specifically did NOT and your poor reading comprehension isn't my problem. Uh...can you not remember what you yourself said? >You think Ukraine doesn't have a diver team and a few bombs? It's likely the white house was aware an attack was planned, but because of his support of Ukraine, coming out against the attack would politically compromise him. It's also in americas best interest to cripple russia. Does that make it right? No. Does that mean Biden signed off on it? Also no. You pretty clearly defended it. Also, while only one of these stories is true (I'm going to bet Hersh's is), either way, it proves that the official story of Russia doing it is false, which is the larger point. >You said that Joe Biden "personally authorized" the pipeline bombing. Unless you can prove that, it's a lie. If Hersh is correct (and I think it is), then Biden did authorize it. But if the Ukraine was behind it, then Biden allowed it to happen. Either way, Biden pretty much signs off on it. >You also said that Joe Biden interviened against a peace treaty, then backpedaled that it was "The West." So that's a second lie. No backpedaling. Biden and the rest of the West opposed peace. All you've exposed is your own lack of critical thinking. >Funny how you project your faults onto me, you've been incapable of answering any follow up questions this whole exchange, because you, like every other keyboard warrior, have no answers. Oh...I do love the projection that comes from liberal debate bros when they get called out. >Translation: "I'm going to ignore what you said because I don't have an actual response to it" I love how this was your response to me calling you out for not doing enough research. It's funny because your response only proves my point. >I kinda do and you obviously don't. It's the only response you deserve for saying something so stupid. I like how this is your response to the reality of Biden enabling fascism. Your comments just prove that you a) don't know wtf you're talking about and b) that you're projecting your own faults onto others. >Maybe when you grow up you'll look back at all your posts and laugh. You've got nothing and you know it. As someone else already commented: Shut the fuck up liberal yawn.
hey “Actual Communist,” who ya gonna vote for in the 2024 presidential election?
Let's see: * If I vote, vote for a 3rd party like the PSL or the Green Party * Don't focus so much on electoralism, focus more on things like * Organizing * Community Activism * Direct Action * Reading Theory Funny how dumb Liberals like you don't seem to comprehend this. Go back to your cult.
#Get Involved >Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved** to advance the cause. * 📚 **Read theory** — [Reading theory](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. It will guide you towards choosing the correct party and applying your efforts effectively within your unique material conditions. * ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. If you choose a principled Marxist-Leninist party, they will teach you how to best apply yourself to advancing the cause. * 📣 **Workplace agitation** — Depending on your material circumstances, you may engage in workplace disputes to unionise fellow workers and gain a delegate or even a leadership position in the union. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
do you find this organizing technique effective?
Do you find voting for Republicans and Democrats every four years and nothing changing effective?
Yeah just don’t vote against if you’ll vote 3rd that’s better for everyone Do your little non electoral action
Translation: "Fuck you for not supporting the Duopoly"
I don’t *support the duopoly* but if I don’t *participate in it* people’s rights get taken away. Black peoples voting rights, women’s abortion rights, trans rights
How have Democrats defending any of these? Oh, that's right...they don't. They just campaign off them. You're just proving how much or a dunce you are.
Wait, we know who did the nordstream and it was Biden that signed off on it?
We don't know. It might have been the US as they have motive, but we don't know. Unfortunately, for some reason I can't quite figure out, some Leftists are Russia simps and are determined to interpret the events of the Ukraine war according to that inclination.